Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Shadoweh on March 31, 2012, 05:34:50 AM
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~*~So You Want To Be The Townest~*~
totes gonna leave this blank just to mess with Conqueror 8)
Moderator: Shadoweh ^_^/
Co-Mod: Pesco, Google Translate
Reviewer: UncertainKitten
Regular rules shamelessly stolen from stalkee:
Please send all your night actions to both myself and Pesco in case my internet accidentalies.
- Town must lynch (no majority = random lynch)
- Scum must kill every night.
- Day 1 will last 96 hours (4 Days). Day 2 and onward will last 72 hours (3 days). Nights are 24 hours.
- No extensions.
- No editing posts.
- Votes must have ## in front and be bolded (EG: ##Vote Pesco) Unvotes are appreciated but unnessicary.
- Play to win.
- Don't be lame.
- Parties with private communication (e.g. scum) may communicate at any time.
- Don't quote any private communications (role PMs, questions you asked the mod etc.). Paraphrasing is fine. If you're unsure if your paraphrase comes to close to quoting ask a mod.
- You cannot talk about the game outside the thread.
- Bah posts are forbidden.
Shadoweh Rules blatantly made up by Shadoweh:
- Perfect Purple is reserved for the moderator. Do not use my color in your posts.
- Twilight is the phase between when a hammer has been dropped and Night is announced. Town may continue to converse until the flip and Night is declared.
- No nasty language. Any slurs, swears or other nasty things will be MODIFIED BEAUTIFULLY. See This thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9247.0.html) for examples of what your UNCOUTH posts might turn into.
- There is a 400 word limit on all posts. Any posts going over 400 words will have the extra content edited by my second co-mod, Google Translate. Word Counter: http://www.javascriptkit.com/script/script2/countwords.shtml
- There will be no prods in this game.
##Tar and Feather and ##Set On Fire
- To use the action ##Tar and Feather (player), you must directly quote the last post of the player you wish to use the action on properly, then put ##Tar and Feather (player) in the post. If the player's last post was 24 or more hours ago, they will be added to the Tarred and Feather Count. The Night Phase does not count towards time for this action.
- To use the action ##Set on Fire (player), you must directly quote the last post of the player you wish to use the action on properly, then put ##Set on Fire (player) in the post. If the player's last post was 24 or more hours ago and they have been on the Tarred and Feathered Count for over 24 hours, they will be killed and flipped. The Night Phase does not count towards time for this action.
For example:
Reiterating that the game is definitely bastard mod because it will involve Shadoweh being a dirty liar.
##Set on Fire: Pesco
In essence, if a person receive two prods from his fellow players, they will be killed.
This is not an encouragement not to post. This is merely a tool to deal with absent players. Any attempt to force players to stop posting will be met with mod punishment. Abuse of this system may incur the same penalties on you you wished to inflict on the other person if the target isn't eligible. Genuine confusion will not be punished.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie is still alive.
You win when nothing can stop you from controlling 50% or more of the vote.
Any other win conditions were included in roles sent.
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Lucky Contestants! 3/15
3) Serela (PX Spectator hydra)
11) Bardiche Mr. Bob
15) Chaore
Eliminated: 12/15
13)Unlucky Dorian G., Town Anti-Cult Vigilante, lynched Day 1
4) Kitten4u, Town Psychiatrist, killed Night 1
14) Lady LambdaDelta, Informed Townie, lynched Day 2
1) capth, Town Doctor Enabler, killed Night 2.
7) Omba, Mafia Tailor, lynched Day 3.
8) Conqueror huh what 8), Town Seeking Nurse, killed Night 3.
10) I have no name, Mafia Ninja, lynched Day 4.
6) Action Dan, Town Searching Assistant Watcher, killed Night 4.
2) Affinity, Town Retired Cop, lynched Day 5.
12) BT, Town Universal Backup, killed Night 5.
9) Dormio, Town Miller, lynched Day 6.
5) Dr. Rawr, Town Watcher Enabler, killed Night 6.
Super High School Level Replacements:
1) Jesus huh what
2) Vhaltz (April 9th)
Confirmed not to be in the game at all 100% (1/1)
16) Kilgamayan
Box Openers: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name, Affinity, Omba, huh what, capt.h,
Mr. Popular: Action Dan
Day 4 Head of Household: BT
Day 5 Head of Household: BT
Useful Links:
Day 1 Start (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg810762.html#msg810762)
Box Timer Hits 0 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811747.html#msg811747)
Day 2 Start! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813437.html#msg813437)
Day 2 End! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg815473.html#msg815473)
Day 3 Start! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg815988.html#msg815988)
Day 3 End! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg817080.html#msg817080)
Day 4 Start! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg817451.html#msg817451)
Day 4 End! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg818624.html#msg818624)
Day 5 Start! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg819125.html#msg819125)
Day 5 End! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg820588.html#msg820588)
Day 6 Start! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg820897.html#msg820897)
Day 6 End! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg821644.html#msg821644)
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Role PM's are being reviewed and sent out now. ROLE PM'S HAVE BEEN SENT. Confirm in thread once you've received your role. Game will start when enough people have confirmed.
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I AM EXPRESSING MY DISPLEASURE WITH YOU.
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/confirm
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Confirming like a champ! or Something. I dunno.
POINT IS I'M HERE.
MAFIA GO GO GO!
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/confirm
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I AM THE ONLY CONFIRMATION THAT MATTERS.
YOU CAN START THE GAME NOW.
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@Mod: What exactly does a spectator hydra entail?
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@Mod: What exactly does a spectator hydra entail?
The spectator has a private quicktopic with his host. They may privately talk about the game there. The spectator is not allowed to post in thread.
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My approximate reaction to the start of this game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw8pcxE6U9k)
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Meh.
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This must be a miracle or something if I'm finally able to stop my streak of never-confirming-in-a-MoTK-game.
Either that or I'm on my spring break already. :V
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I like that I'm not required to get a second copy of any actions you guys may take. Let Shadoweh deal with all that nonsense herself.
New change to the ruleset involving sending a second copy to Pesco so Shadoweh doesn't have to deal with all that nonsense herself! The new change involved Shadoweh Pesco set the rules, it is absurd not to send a second copy!
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/confirm
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Mr. Bob replaces Bardiche, effective immediately. Carry on!
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I AM EXPRESSING MY DISPLEASURE WITH YOU.
TOOK YOU LONG ENOUGH. MY TWUCK.
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/confirm
Im not a loser.....
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MY TWUCK.
I find it hard to believe that MY TWUCK could be considered to be profane.
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/confirm
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What have you got against MY TWUCK?
Why do you keep aggrivating the moderatr's phobia of red trucks and flashing lights? ;w;
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Why do you keep aggrivating the moderatr's phobia of red trucks and flashing lights? ;w;
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/TWGOK10.png)
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I AM EXPRESSING MY DISPLEASURE WITH YOU.
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Veniam, errat, et non accepit inquantum Propugnatores elit.
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ベーネ、confirmans meae PM。
(http://i43.tinypic.com/j8zg38.jpg)
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I guess I'm here, so consider my presence as confirmed.
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This is the messiest confirmation phase I have ever seen. Shadoweh, you're making everyone drunk just by being the mod. :V
Also, does that prodding rule essentially mean that assuming you get prodded each time you go over 24 hours without posting, doing that 2 times at any point in the game will get you modkilled?
If so, you might want to explicitly state it like that.
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Oh hey, 12/15. That's 4/5. Which is a cool number.
If we're asking stuff: can someone be ##set on fire at LYLO/MYLO? IDR if this has been mentioned anywhere.
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Oh hey, 12/15. That's 4/5. Which is a cool number.
If we're asking stuff: can someone be ##set on fire at LYLO/MYLO? IDR if this has been mentioned anywhere.
Yes, the command can be used at any time, regardless of game state.
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I assume that includes night periods, then.
No one better idle at endgame. Unless you're scum, that would be fine. :munch:
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What happens if a player is killed by getting set on fire? Specifically, does the day end if a town player gets modkilled / day resets if a scum is modkilled?
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I assume that includes night periods, then.
It doesn't, thanks for reminding me. Edited to reflect night periods not counting towards lurk time.
What happens if a player is killed by getting set on fire? Specifically, does the day end if a town player gets modkilled / day resets if a scum is modkilled?
The kill is resolved as a vigilante kill on the target. The day will not end or reset.
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Still leaves the unanswered question of whether or not you're allowed to set someone on fire during the night. (that was my original question!)
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Still leaves the unanswered question of whether or not you're allowed to set someone on fire during the night. (that was my original question!)
If you had the ability to talk at night you could.
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can you set yourself on fire?
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Are we trying to replace the System of soothing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6mTmrp5SGw)?
Fun aside, I thought the the two prods would need to be in succession, so I'm really not sure if I like that idea as it is now. To be honest it looks more like it encouraged to post just for the sake of posting than anything else, particularly since it entirely ignores how ?meaningful? said posts are. Well we will see how it turns out in in practice.
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I think we're the ones controlling it for a reason.
Start game plz.
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Well LOVE
I keep getting PLEASURED.
what is this Information OVERLOAD?
? Last Edit: Today at 01:52:25 pm by Shadoweh ?
>_>
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I keep getting PLEASURED.
tmi
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Yeah, I find the BEAUTFULLY MODIFIED post a bit disturbing too.
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I think we're the ones controlling it for a reason.
Start game plz.
The question is, who is ?we? in that case? Anyone here could enforce such a kill on his own account, under the right circumstances, and I don't see what we could do about it.
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we could lynch that person?
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We're sane people (???) so we understand that doing something like that on your own accord has consequences. (unless it's endgame, in which an idler would fuck us over anyway)
Soon to be two pages of pre-game. Yaaaaaaayyyyy.
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can we tar and feather people pregame?
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Alright that's close enuf.
DAY 1 START
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1212/mafiabegin.jpg)
So you want to be the townest?! MAFIA!
Do you have the skills to GET KILLED NIGHT ONE!
Night one!
Let's do it!
I wanna make the ultimate case~
Find the courage to WIFOM!
To risk it all and not forget~
The vig shots that I hold!
I wanna vote where no one's been~
Far beyond the town!
To learn the way to take a stand~
Use the mindhax that I command!
We all live in MotK Town!
(MotK Town!)
I wanna be the best scumhunter of them all
(The best scumhuntah!)
We all live in MotK Town
Put myself to the test to be towner than all the rest!
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It seems the judges have a gift for the contestants!
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5005/tewihasabox.jpg)
Who will get to open this amazing gift! It makes such a delightful rattling sound when you shake it!
As well as a soothing ticking noise! It also has a helpful timer on the front!
Players may gift this amazing present by using the ##Pass The Box: (player) command. Let's ask Keine who gets to start off with it!
<Shadowmeh> @dice 1d15
<Keine-tan> 2
Congratulations Affinity! You have The Box!
Day JUST Started Count
Not voting: Everyone
Holding the Box: Affinity
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 96 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
Box Timer: 48:00:00
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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##vote: affinity
Hand it over
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Do acronyms (and contractions) count as one word for the sake of 400 word count?
Will word count be enforced strictly? What would you use to count?
Imagine it wouldn't be by hand.
Yes, acronyms and contractions only count as one word.
Shadoweh's Word Counter (http://www.javascriptkit.com/script/script2/countwords.shtml)
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##Vote Dormio
Yukari is obviously lying. Even when she hasn't posted yet.
Also, about that box. How should we handle it? I'm torn on whether it should end up with the player that has the most votes at some point before the timer runs out, the player looking the townest (somewhat bad idea given it's D1 and would force players to reveal their town reads), or something else entirely. Letting Keine decide would be another possibility, but that would be no better than not deciding what to do with it at all.
Anyone got any actually good ideas about this?
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##Vote: Kitten4u
Experience tells me you are clearly scum.
This is because I am town.
Therefore you must die.
As for the box, I say we Keine the shadoweh out of it. We can worry a biscuit ton about it and let Scum create a massive smokescreen about it, or we could just give no biscuits because we have no idea what it is and focus on the game.
I have edited my swearing for Shadoweh's convenience. You are welcome.
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##Vote Dr. rawr
This is for calling me scum in the graveyard quicktopic of Midnight Crew Mafia. I said I would and so I have.
I wonder what's in the box (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyGA9P5oiOI)?
I intend on milking the word limit to the fullest extent possible in every post.
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##Vote: Capt.h
It's about time you rolled scum. +confirm posts seem nervous.
About Box: Don't pass it yet. Leave it with affinity at least for a while. the box is most likely either turns someone into a bomb or blows up in the person's face. (Or it's some modified SK daykill power shamelessly stolen from EPICMAFIA)
On that note. I suggest giving it to the scummiest person at the time of countdown. /2cents
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GIVE ME THE BOX! PROBLEM SOLVED YEA?
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Also actiondan that seems like an awful idea, we dont even know whats inside.
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@mod Will there be another box after?
The answer to that question is ^_^/
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The box clearly contains extra tar and feathers.
Either that, or a tactical nuke,
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Bomb seems too obvious imo.
##Vote Chaore
Box discussion is good. For ending RVS and such. Maybe.
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Bomb seems too obvious imo.
##Vote Chaore
Box discussion is good. For ending RVS and such. Maybe.
Or it's a clock (which might work like a dud). That's all I can think up as an alternative.
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I say give it to someone that's hard to read by the end of the day but is active enough. Ka-boom or powerup or whatever the hell it may be, seems like an okay choice.
ActionDan, what about capt.h's post makes him nervous?
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The Box is obviously the reason D1 is ridiculously long, and I think the purpose is to give an extra lynch without being 100% confirmed "that's what it is" and for shits and giggles because everyone as a whole doesn't really have control over it, it's only controlled by the single person who happens to have it at the time. (It's also pretty cool, because the game gets to instantly start with actual discussion and develop from there, instead of an RVS phase. This is awesome, GJ Shadoweh)
Bomb seems too obvious? Sometimes obvious things are obvious because it is. Let's not have a repeat of Kaori from last game. Looks like scum, acts like scum, votes like scum, clearly town amirite?
If you want to be "BUT WHAT IF IT ISN'T", it's not like a read on someone 48 hours into the game is likely to be that great, so if it turns out to be some cool power grant or something then oh well, there's a great chance we didn't give it to scum anyway. Seriously though, it's probably a bomb and going to blow up in their face. Then we still have almost two more days of time after their flip to decide on our lynch.
No regrets on putting this out there because I'm extremely doubtful scum will want to chance holding it when time runs out (Because HEY GUESS WHAT, even if it might not be a bomb, if you were scum would you take the risk and hold it?), but hey maybe they'll not be around.
In a way it's sort of a vig (if it's a bomb), because you throw it to someone at the last minute and then they would go boom. For this point, we'll probably want to hand it to someone who will be around at the countdown end who we can trust to A.Be town and B.Throw it at someone who might actually be scum.
Anyway this was A Serela Rant, brought to you by Not PX
##Vote Dr.Rawr
I personally do not trust Dr.Rawr with the task of tossing the bomb at someone scummy :V
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Who said i was gonna toss it?
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I'm almost more worried you wouldn't, but I have to admit that I wouldn't teeeerribly mind that.
But still. I'd rather not end up getting stuck with you as the end-of-countdown box holder already.
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Given that UK said this wasn't bastard mod, I think it's safe to assume the box contains a bomb. Note that the timer is only 48 hours for the people who can't read.
S'prolly better for whoever has the bomb to just toss it to a scumread ASAP or sommat. That'll create a clear path of accountability when we want to look back at it in the future. (Shadoweh you should have put a limit on the number of passes like in this game. (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2733571#p2733571))
Using it as a town "second lynch" is also possible but that just gets messy depending on the implementation.
##Vote: Omba
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Serela's Recommended Box Plan
A.At some point once enough people have posted that we can have any sort of somewhat agreed town read, Affinity tosses box to them, assuming they haven't claimed that they will not be around at the box deadline (Or Affinity keeps it if that's fine, we'll see)
B.Townie With The Bomb treats it like a vig that can only be used on someone who is not around. They use it within a couple minutes of deadline (closer=better) on someone who does not seem to be around so as to reduce the chance that their target just instantly passes it off to someone else.
As unfortunate as it may sound, I think giving any warning of who they're passing the bomb to does more possible hurt then help, which would mean no claim would happen. Otherwise multiple people could end up being coaxed to claim under threat of vig which would be A Bad Thing, in addition to the fact that they could possibly try staying till deadline with the knowledge they were a likely target, which is also A Bad Thing because then the vigged turns into the vigger.
Conq:Tossing it to a scumread ASAP is meaningless because then the scumread will have lots of time to get rid of it again. If you mean "Let's play pass the bomb and if anyone does something bad with it we can tell later!" then TBH I don't really see how that would seriously work in a helpful manner, and it's probably best to just keep the box shenanigans to a minimum with as little possible passing as can be efficiently managed.
ANYWAY THIS IS A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF SETUP SHENANIGANS FOR ME TO BE TALKING ABOUT SO I AM GOING TO STOP POSTING FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS. I don't like a high degree of Play The Setup, plus it can be used as smokescreening by scum.
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Baby's First Votecount
Affinity (1): Dr. Rawr
Dormio (1): Omba
Kitten4u (1): Chaore
Dr. Rawr (2): I have no name, Serela
capt.h (1) : Action Dan
Chaore: (1) BT
Omba[ (1): Conqueror
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dormio, Lady Lambdadelta, Dorian G, capt.h, Affinity, Kitten4u
Holding the Box: Affinity
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 94 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
Box Timer: 46:23:01
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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Serela, Conq's suggestion is that whoever has the box before deadline passes it to whoever they think is scum, and we can refer to that later in rereads.
Personally, I like this idea. This implies having the box sender be someone who is not necessarily obvtown, which is fine by me.
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So, this game has been called a bastard mod by Pesco.
Yukkuri mafia was called a bastard mod by Pesco.
Ergo, the mod must be a player.
##Vote Shadoweh
Anyway, firetruckbox shenanigans. Establish a town read, pass it to them, then have them throw it with like a minute left to go at whoever? Assuming it is a bomb, of course. Or just have Affinity throw it wherever. That's cool too.
And as for other shenanigans: I am a miller. Again. This means that investigations on me give a guilty result. LOVE you, Swadomeh.
Also, I will have limited access for the next two days. It's not my fault I have two assignments due, one of which I haven't started on, GOSH DARN it!
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Ergh I typed this up and lost it but RETYPING. What happened to me not posting for a few hours? Oh well.
PX likes Conq's Hot Potato plan as he thinks it could be thrown around like a vote to make connections sort of like a popcorn massclaim. I personally don't see how that would be useful at all because it wouldn't be any more powerful then a vote, and we would lose much control over who ended up holding it at deadline.
Especially once it got thrown to someone who ended up being AFK a long time, possibly even until the deadline.
For that matter, scum could throw it to someone they think wouldn't be around before the deadline (Even if the deadline is still 10~15 hours away this is completely realistic to happen!) and given how early in the game it still is they'd probably be able to justify the throw just fine, and later, well, "How was I supposed to know they wouldn't be around for the next XX hours?"
But yeah the worst part IMO would just be losing the control over who holds it at deadline. Thankfully any single good townie who gets the box even if people try to Hot Potato can stop it.
BT cut! BT, I already know that. And that is what votes are for. The box is not really any more dangerous then a vote except with dire consequences if you pass it to someone who does not show up until deadline afterwords. Which is easier for scum to take advantage of then town, and even scum can safely pass it to eachother as long as they check in their little scum QT or whatnot that the other one will be around to pass at some point.
The more passing that happens, the more likely scum will end up being able to significantly influence who holds it at deadline. Less Passing = Better. It also means less shenanigans will happen and less setup shenanigans is also Better.
Cut by Dormio agreeing, ilu.
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Box is a pain. Nobody is going to want to hold it in 48 hours from either alignment. Either someone who can't be on at exactly 4:20 PM dies, or someone who is on at exactly 4:19 PM gets to kill whoever they want, or accidentally kill themselves if they're even a second off.
We should give it to someone who can be rediculously good with time at will be around at exactly 4:19:50 at the time it's set to go off.
Rawr seems town to me, so I'm completely for giving him the bomb.
##Vote: K4U
Anyhows, from what I've seen I don't think all the scum's have posted yet (if any).
Also, it would be super not fun for me to reveal why I think Rawr is the most likely town until all the players have posted. Don't want to tell scum how to act town.
DARN IT I PROMISED IT WOULDN'T TAKE ME THIS LONG TO WRITE POSTS.
ALSO CAPSLOCK MAKES THE GAME BETTER. Yay~ capslock!
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while you were typing 5 new replies have been posted.
GAH
Thankfully any single good townie who gets the box even if people try to Hot Potato can stop it.
NOPE
Any good townie would know even complete random chance is better than dying as confirmed town. A good townie would be forced to pass the box just because anyone else is more likely to be scum than the one person who's role PM you hold.
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BY THAT I MEAN townies know they're town. Townies know other people are scum. Townies will ram that box out the door for even a small chance of hitting scum, over a 0% chance of hitting scum.
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They won't get rid of it the instance they get it because it means they have a chance of getting it again.
Instead, a sane townie player will wait for the last second and then pass it to someone who isn't confirmed town. ~_~
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capth confirmed for Can't Read
Rawr seems town to me, so I'm completely for giving him the bomb.
No, because Rawr wants to take the box and keep it. And since it's Rawr I can believe that he would.
And for what you said specifically to me, obviously I would intend for the Good Little Townie to throw it at the end of the 48 hours. Or to pass it to another Good Little Townie who wouldn't throw it (until needed) and would be around to do so.
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also
##Unvote ##Vote Capth
Because I see you suggest to give it to Dr.Rawr and I'm like WHYYYYY WOULD YOU DOOOO THAAAAAT (other then to have a silly townie blow themselves up)
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Given that UK said this wasn't bastard mod, I think it's safe to assume the box contains a bomb. Note that the timer is only 48 hours for the people who can't read.
That can be easily solved.
Mod: What happens to the player that has the box at the moment the timer runs out?
You win a free Minoriko (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/645487/aki_minoriko-blonde_hair-blush_stickers-box-cardbo)
If there's no clear answer, that seems bastardy enough already. But, I just realized that if we have no way of knowing what exactly is inside, the best we can do is actually just treating it like it was a bomb. At least that will give us some reads regardless of whatever it actually does - and prevent anyone from using something along the lines of 'I didn't know what it does, so I did X' as an excuse for whatever.
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No, because Rawr wants to take the box and keep it. And since it's Rawr I can believe that he would.
THEN WHY THE HECK WERE YOU VOTING RAWR ???
Also
Townie who wouldn't throw it (until needed) and would be around to do so.
I get it now! Whoops.
Because I see you suggest to give it to Dr.Rawr and I'm like WHYYYYY WOULD YOU DOOOO THAAAAAT (other then to have a silly townie blow themselves up)
Well, you see, Rawr is the most obvious townie alive right now, precisely because of that behavior. I mean seriously, Not only does he come out front and center at the beginning of the day, but volunteers to take what could be a suicide? That's so not-scummy it hurts.
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Mind you, I DON'T THINK RAWR SHOULD HOLD IT UNTIL IT BLOWS UP.
That would be silly.
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Jumping to "this man must be town" conclusions is fun and all but this can easily be reduced to WIFOM, like infinity other things.
At first I thought there was something stronger than that making you think he's town, like knowledge about the box, but oh well!
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Scum aren't here yet, by the way.
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Nah, you see, it's actually the way Rawr volunteered himself to the center of attention. He wanted to be put in a position where EVERYONE was looking DIRECTLY at him. Scum wouldn't want that. Part of it is from what I've seen of Rawr's play, I wouldn't picture him the type to draw unnecessary attention to himself as scum. He'd just quietly slither through day 1 and we'd be asking "Rawr Exists?"
At least, that's what I think.
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You win a free Minoriko (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/645487/aki_minoriko-blonde_hair-blush_stickers-box-cardbo)
Give me the box right now.
As for the box, I say we Keine the shadoweh out of it. We can worry a biscuit ton about it and let Scum create a massive smokescreen about it, or we could just give no biscuits because we have no idea what it is and focus on the game.
I like this man. He speaks truths. Though I don't entirely agree about Keine'ing it, since that removes all accountability.
In all seriousness, isn't focussing solely on the box right now kind of stupid? Unless someone has an informed townie role, this is all conjecture and speculation. I figure the best thing to do is forget about it until the time comes, and do that thing where we look for scum instead.
Speaking of which.
@Rawr: Why do you want the box?
@Capth: What makes Rawr seem town to you?
@Serela: Do you have any thoughts on the game that aren't about the box?
@Shadoweh: Give it up, I know you're scum. Or a third party.
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Oh and Capth cut me with a response. Whatever.
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@Serela: Do you have any thoughts on the game that aren't about the box?
I don't like Capth trying to make giving it to rawr look like a good idea, because I think rawr is seriously liable to hold it through deadline. Hence why I'm voting him. If the box landed on rawr and he really does just want to hold it through deadline, then scum would basically get a free pass out of worrying about it.
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About that.
##Unvote
##Vote Serela
You're voting him because you don't like what he's doing? That has nothing to do with alignment. :U
I am actually pretty content with Capth's elaboration.
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Mm, after rethinking some things, what I said earlier isn't going to work because short deadlines + timezones + how easy it is to pass the bomb since there are no restrictions on passing.
Using it as a second lynch is probably fine, since we don't even know what happens when the box "explodes."
@mod, is the time for the box countdown immutable?
What the hell does immutable mean There is no mechanic in the regular rules to change the timer.
In all seriousness, isn't focussing solely on the box right now kind of stupid? Unless someone has an informed townie role, this is all conjecture and speculation. I figure the best thing to do is forget about it until the time comes, and do that thing where we look for scum instead.
Pretty sure the point of this discussion is so that we can take care of what do with the thing ASAP. I like this discussion; it's giving me some potential town reads. ^_^/
Omba, what do you think should be done if you think the box is a bomb?
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You're voting him because you don't like what he's doing? That has nothing to do with alignment. :U
Hey I explained why it would make sense for scum to do it!
And IMO my reasoning is legit because Dr.Rawr is pretty darn obviously implying he wouldn't intend on throwing it.
Conq is being a Good Little Townie and that makes me happy :] He's currently my top pick for holding the box 'till deadline.
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And even if you want to say "Rawr could just be bluffing/lying/etc", there's still that chance he isn't, and such. There's better ideas then gambling by giving it to him.
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Eh, I dunno, I'm not getting the feeling he did it not because he wants Rawr to blow up, but rather because he wanted to pass it to (who he thinks is) mr. obvtown, and he disregarded the whole "but i wanna keep it" part.
I read what you're saying as "he wants to make it so it gets sent to Rawr and that is a bad idea and bad ideas are clearly scummy".
By the way, I'm pretty GOSH DARN sure Rawr was being less-than-half-serious when asking for the box and wanting to keep it. :V
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**I'm getting the feeling he did it not because he wants Rawr to blow up, but rather...
One too many 'not', there.
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Well this is basically this game's equivalent of RVS, so I'm going with what I've got so far, and that's what I've got!
I'm gonna go make a sandwich :]
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Most people don't even have a reason for their vote right now, so :shrug:
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##Unvote
Whatever, I see where you're coming from but I don't agree with it, because you're basically punishing someone for bad play. And this makes my vote hypocritical so yeah.
##Vote IHNN
Hi there! You kind of disappeared. Nothing to add to the discussion?
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/confirm
Reading.
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I'm always so confused on D1...and coming back from dinner to box discussion sure didn't help.
I really want to know what's in the box. Then again I'm pretty cautious so I definitely don't want to have it at the deadline. Affinity, have you received any information from a mod about the box?
rawr, why do you want the box? Are you pulling a repeat of what you did Midnight Crew Mafia D1, brave the unknown?
I'm gonna go make a sandwich :]
I just had one.
You win a free Minoriko (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/645487/aki_minoriko-blonde_hair-blush_stickers-box-cardbo)
I don't want a harvest goddess. I want the adorable little ancient kid who's actually older than the snake goddess.
-cuts-
Hi there! You kind of disappeared. Nothing to add to the discussion?
I had dinner and then typed this up.
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Omba, what do you think should be done if you think the box is a bomb?
I think having each player that gets it pass it to the player they think is the most scummy would be the best solution. The actual outcome of who ends up with the box will essentially be random, but since we don't know what it actually does, that's fine. We're treating it as if it definitely were a bomb, though, so if the last person actually blows up, or at some later point gets lynched or NKed, every throw of the packet will be treated as a vote with intent to lynch (with the receiving person's alignment revealed).
After all, precisely the fact that there's a chance of the player it gets thrown to not showing up before the deadline means that at least every throw after the 24 hour mark has passed has a definite possibility of actually killing the target. Which also means if scum were to try to off someone with the box, they would be forced to either directly dirty their hands (if the thing does blows up) or have someone they'd want to avoid killing if it happens to do something else (since if they then kill him at some later point, they'd still have made what is in essence a lynch vote on someone that then flips town).
--cut 6 times
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Pretty sure the point of this discussion is so that we can take care of what do with the thing ASAP. I like this discussion; it's giving me some potential town reads. ^_^/
Well, like I said, whoever is holding it chucks it at the last second. It's not like box passing can be done privately, so we can all see what happens with it and blame can be appropriated appropriately.
Meanwhile, nobody provides reads on anyone. How am I supposed to find scum in this box-centric environment?
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Speaking of which. I need to contradict myself after telling you all to stop talking about the box.
@Mod: Is it possible to pass the box to Shadoweh?
Only players may receive Shadoweh's thoughtful present.
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Which also means if scum were to try to off someone with the box, they would be forced to either directly dirty their hands (if the thing does blows up) or have someone they'd want to avoid killing if it happens to do something else (since if they then kill him at some later point, they'd still have made what is in essence a lynch vote on someone that then flips town).
No Omba, because as long as they can justify their decision they would be fine. Townies are perfectly capable of hitting town with it, after all.
Making the chance it ever lands in scum hands as small as possible is the best way, because they can definitely use it to their advantage and totally get away with it.
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Before I get into anything about reads, I want to say something about the box. I'm going to assume the box is a bomb that will kill the holder.
I would like people to avoid focusing on this box as a crutch to replace scumhunting. There has been a lot of talk about what to do with the box in the first few pages, and not a lot else. Scum will love to pounce on this to suggest something and appear townie. All box discussion should be treated as a nulltell for this reason.
That said, here we go:
The mechanism of the box should work as follows, one of two ways:
1)We give the person we think is the most townie the box, and let them cast the hammer vote. They can pass the box and hammer our lynch at the same time, which should in theory prevent any last minute box passing confusion.
2) We determine our lynch, and we pass them the box. They are given the right to self-hammer, and pass the box to someone they think is scum at the same time. If they're town, it works like a vengeful townie. If they're scum... we lynched a scum bag so I think the risk is worth it.
So, I'd like to hear opinions on these two ideas, but beyond that box talk should be treated null. As a matter of fact, the only scumtell I will tolerate surrounding the box is people saying that we should use it as an "extra lynch", since I see that as a scum motivated move to try and control where the box goes, instead of having it delegated.
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I was being totally serious about wanting the box. Why? because it may contain firetrucks, candy, or even minoriko. If affinity doesnt pass it to me, i will be VERY disappointed.
Serela who cares who you want to hold the box? It doesnt matter unless you have the box.
Also cut
What, so you want to cut our day to 48 hours? Both those options dont sounds very good. Neither of them involve me getting the box....
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Er, upon inspection it appears that the Box Deadline is shorter than the day deadline.
I still think the two options presented are the best ones. It eliminates confusion and gives a definite pass, instead of this Hot Potatoe nonsense that will clearly go awry.. Anyone who thinks a complex solution involving multiple passes will work is deluding themseleves, since scum will assuredly screw it up to avoid getting killed.
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Why would you want to cut the day to 48hours though?
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I think both of those ideas are bleh because we lose 44 hours out of D1 and do not get to use results of box flip and reactions to such to help choose the d1 lynch.
DrRawr stop being ridiculous ugh. Because it'd be nice if a bunch of people could agree on which townie to give the box at some point instead of it being 100% up to Affinity (or whoever he passes it to, etc).
Also LLD got it half-right and half-wrong. Hot Potato is bad, cutting the day short is also bad for aforementioned reasons, if whoever can just pass it to someone who is not present a minute or two before the deadline then it should be fine. Even scum have things they have to do IRL sometimes.
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RVS Makes Second Votecounts Hard
Shadoweh (1): Dormio
Affinity (1): Dr. Rawr
Dormio (1): Omba
Kitten4u (2): Chaore, capt.h
Dr. Rawr (1): I have no name
capt.h (2) : Action Dan, Serela
Chaore: (0)
Omba (1): Conqueror
I have no name (1): BT
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Lady Lambdadelta, Dorian G, Affinity, Kitten4u
Holding the Box: Affinity
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 92 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
Box Timer: 44:33:29
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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They also don't work at all because this game has a Twilight Phase.
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##Vote: Capt.h
It's about time you rolled scum. +confirm posts seem nervous.
About Box: Don't pass it yet. Leave it with affinity at least for a while. the box is most likely either turns someone into a bomb or blows up in the person's face. (Or it's some modified SK daykill power shamelessly stolen from EPICMAFIA)
On that note. I suggest giving it to the scummiest person at the time of countdown. /2cents
I have a few issues with this post.
Firstly, the appeal to probability vote compounded with a feeble attempt at justifying it to be something more than that. What about Capt.H's confirm post appeared nervous to you Dan?
Secondly, while I've stated that box speculation is inherently null, (and obviously I find the vote/reasoning to be the main suspicious part of this post), the last line of your post has me a little on edge. How do we determine the "scummiest" player in your eyes? To different people will come different "scummiest" players. I only see this as an attempt to cause discord, with people arguing over who to give the box two, and spending less time scumhunting.
Can you explain how as a group, we can determine the "scummiest" player? Further, isn't that the intent behind a lynch mechanic?
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Mod: Can players pass the box in Twilight phase?
Yes.
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I'm of the opinion that the box will explode in the holder's face and kill them. Using it as a second lynch would be really nice if we could get the town organized enough in time. A few games have had 48 hour D1s so I don't see why we couldn't pull it off. Thinking Affinity should just hold onto it until then unless he has reason to believe he won't be around since he'd have to be held accountable for the choice if he's scum, and if he's town he'd be working toward's town's best interests. In other words, I'm not particularly worried about who decides the box lynch. If the lynchee tosses it to someone else they're probably scum anyway. 1 for 1 trades aren't bad for town. Ideally the lynchee should be able to claim like anyone about to get lynched does, but with a short limit it may not be feasible. I dunno, we'll see what happens. If worst comes to worst I suppose Affinity could use it as a second vig.
I'm against ending the day at the 48 hour mark. If it's a bomb we're getting a flip on D1, which is the best thing ever.
@capth: In this case, passing to avoid being killed is not a good town strategy for the same reason refusing to hammer a bomb is a bad town strategy.
I've been cut a million times, so I'm going to post this and post reads shortly.
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/2en6y3m.jpg)
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Affinity isn't going to give up the box because it has Minoriko.
Dormio, even if you could pass the box to Shadoweh, if it is a bomb, we don't need a dead mod. Just look how that turned out for Yukkuri Mafia.
Hot Potato is an interesting idea. Although the more players that have it, the more likely someone is going to screw up the plan. So I think the best course of action is 1 pass, should Affinity decide to give up his free Minoriko. (I could use an extra Labyrinth of Touhou healer...)
@Lambdadelta, you say all box talk should be treated as null, except your ideas and treating it as an extra lynch. Why? I honestly think the box is a dud, but I'm not confident enough in this idea to stake my townie life on it.
##Unvote
Sure, pass rawr the box. Him and Serela are probably my best town reads at the moment. Going to wait for more content to plunk down another vote though.
Players who haven't posted yet, of which there are 3 of you, thoughts on things thus far?
^ lol
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In this case, passing to avoid being killed is not a good town strategy for the same reason refusing to hammer a bomb is a bad town strategy
Not really, if, for example, I got given the box right before it blew up, I'd go "HELL YEAH I HAVE A VIG" and try to exact righteous townie justice on someone.
Or, at the least, what I'm trying to say is that you can't expect a town to not try and use it to vig someone as opposed to letting it blow up on themselves. It's a bit different then not hammering a bomb, because whoever else ends up hammering the bomb would also be town, while in this case you can actually hit scum.
cut by PFFFFFBBTBTTT :getdown:
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IHNN: Do you understand what "null" means in this context? I mean that no real reads should be drawn from it. Not that it's unimportant.
If you had read my post, I explained why using it as a second lynch should be considered an exception (and even then, it's not that strong of a tell).
So please, IHNN, go read my post again and answer your own questions. If you're still confused, I'll do my best to assist you, but I'm afraid there isn't much else I can do.
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Anyway Rawr has barely done anything but beg for the box all game, I think it's silly that several people have a big town read on him. It's possible he's just scum that wants to ensure they get to choose who dies at the deadline, because he can get away with doing something silly like this. And because it wouldn't be questionable at all if he threw the box at someone despite implying he doesn't want to.
That being said I have a null read on him right now, I'm not trying to argue he's scum. It's just that there's no real reason I can see to pass him off as town. Only WIFOM reasons.
Thankfully I trust in Affinity to not give him the box, but better safe then sorry.
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IHNN: Do you understand what "null" means in this context? I mean that no real reads should be drawn from it.
I misinterpreted 'null' as box discussion gives diplomatic immunity, as opposed to don't use it to determine town/scum. Basically null from the target player's perspective as opposed to the targeting player's perspective.
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:wikipedia:
implying all your posts havent involved boxes.
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I think the best option is to use the bomb as a second lynch. LLD, it's not like a town holder of the box won't be influenced by scum anyway when passing it at the last second, be they the designated lynch or no.
So we could set up a box vote first. e.g whoever gets a majority gets the box and is expected to hold on to it until the timer runs out. Any funny business ---> they get lynched the normal way. And there shouldn't be any funny business from town because there is still be the possibility that the box contains delicious candy!
As for the box holder, I'd give it capt.h who is a town read for pointing out his town read of Rawr, which more or less mirrored my own thoughts.
I see where serela is coming from at least, or else those posts would be headdesk worthy (well they still are, but less so).
Conq's read depends on his town reads! The mere fact he said 'town' reads is encouraging tho.
Bt is developing into a town read.
The rest are to be determined.
##Unvote
##Box vote: Affinity
Does anyone wanna be the scretarial duties for the Box vote count (I can take over later, but it's a chore right now).
@Bt, LLD - Capt.h's confirm posts looked a lil nervous to me! twas page 2 strong. I felt a lingering uncertainty that usually accompanies scum in ED1.
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I misinterpreted 'null' as box discussion gives diplomatic immunity, as opposed to don't use it to determine town/scum. Basically null from the target player's perspective as opposed to the targeting player's perspective.
Understandable. Do you have any further questions about my post, in light of this?
Cut by Dan: ##Vote:ActionDan
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Sorry Rawr, I don't want you to have the box because I think you'll actually keep it. :V I want to have a wagon to analyze before the NK.
Anyway, I think scum are more likely to blab about box shenanigans than actual reads on people, so I'm looking there. The ones that are most guilty of this in my opinion are Rawr, No Name, and Omba. Rawr is just a thing at this point. I have no idea what to make of him. Rawr, what are your opinions outside of box shenanigans? Not really liking No Name's #91 because it says absolutely nothing. I suppose the next post is a little better. He's getting a ED1 pass because this is how he acted last game. >_>
##Vote Omba
Do you have comments on non-box things?
Chaore is obviously scum because I'm town.
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##unvote ##vote ActionDan
did you seriously just "box vote" someone who hasn't even posted yet
We want it on town, is Affinity's confirmation post so ~*~MAGICAL~*~ that he's more town then anyone here?
Not only that but you joined the "Dr Rawr is town because ???" wagon and aauuughhh whyyyyyy
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Or even regardless of who you want it on I mean affinity hasn't even POSTED
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I'm talking about box things because I have no real reads on people yet, and because I'm responding to other comments on box things. It's an endless spiral of
death boxes.
Dan, the box vote is a decent idea, but I see it mirroring the lynch vote diluting its effectiveness.
He's getting a ED1 pass because this is how he acted last game. >_>
I guess I just start Mafia slow.
Not really liking No Name's #91 because it says absolutely nothing.
Hey, I asked a question (to rawr), and answered a question (from BT).
Speaking of BT, what are your thoughts on current player reads?
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Understandable. Do you have any further questions about my post, in light of this?
Cut by Dan: Vote:ActionDan
I felt that slap.
But I'll turn the other cheek, why the vote?
O silly serela, This vote count that I am proposing is going to be for the person who actually holds the bomb at the end of the timer. I would prefer capt.h to keep it safe and sound until that point. I don't have any outstanding negative feelings about anyone so far so affinity to me is as good as any.
Dr Rawr is town because he seriously wanted that box. It reads as an impatient townie that wants to do something. I saw no ill-intentions. You'd think a newb-scum would be apprehensive and dicuss the bomb matter in a QT to see if it was ok to go around and be all "GIVE BOX TO ME."
Also my town-reads are pretty good when I get them. just sayin.
cuts. Agree that my proposed votecount would dilute the actual votecount. thinking more about it, we could just go off the regular VC, but I worry that inevitably there will be something like 3 wagons tied at 3-4 votes a piece and that would be incredibly annoying.
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but I worry that inevitably there will be something like 3 wagons tied at 3-4 votes a piece and that would be incredibly annoying.
What's the problem here? Further, how would having a different votecount change this at all?
For someone claiming he wants to use the bomb as a second lynch you have all this really backwards. We're voting with intent to lynch still and we'll have 48 hours after it explodes to look at the wagons. I don't see the advantage in not using actual votes.
Why do you want Affinity to die?
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This vote count that I am proposing is going to be for the person who actually holds the bomb at the end of the timer.
same complaint, replace "town" with "scum", still horrible
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Oh, I forgot to say this. Don't put anyone to L-1 under any circumstances before the bomb goes off. We don't want scum self-hammering cutting the day short.
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##Unvote
##Vote: Serela
No regrets on putting this out there because I'm extremely doubtful scum will want to chance holding it when time runs out (Because HEY GUESS WHAT, even if it might not be a bomb, if you were scum would you take the risk and hold it?), but hey maybe they'll not be around.
No, because Rawr wants to take the box and keep it. And since it's Rawr I can believe that he would.
Anyway Rawr has barely done anything but beg for the box all game, I think it's silly that several people have a big town read on him. It's possible he's just scum that wants to ensure they get to choose who dies at the deadline, because he can get away with doing something silly like this.
sup? Am i scum or not?
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Minoriko is mine and no one else's, since the only townie I know is me. I will decide what to do with it alone. Also,
Making the chance it ever lands in scum hands as small as possible is the best way, because they can definitely use it to their advantage and totally get away with it.
We want it on town, is Affinity's confirmation post so ~*~MAGICAL~*~ that he's more town then anyone here?
##Vote: Serela
I see a contradiction in the above two quotes, which could amount to a slip. You seem to forget that I'm holding the box. If you think I'm town, then I should clearly hold on to the box because of the first quote, but then by the second quote you don't like me holding on to the box. Using the latter as a reason to vote for someone is thus suspect.
And yes, I repeat the calls to Omba, rawr, and IHNM to start doing things the traditional way.
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So you have no intention of giving me the Box?
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Kitten4U: Why yes, I have.
I would prefer capt.h to keep it safe and sound until that point. I don't have any outstanding negative feelings about anyone so far so affinity to me is as good as any.
How does capt. h come into this, given that you voted for Affinity to hold the box?
Other than that, I see Dan being Dan and people voting him for it.
I have no name: Why specifically BT? There's plenty of people that have pretty much only talked about the box or haven't said anything at all yet. Why only ask him? For that matter, he actually has a vote on someone for a read not directly related to the box, yet you've said nothing about what you think of that read.
##Unvote
##Vote: I have no name
Speaking of reads.
Conqueror: Is your vote on me a RV, or related to the box stuff you talked about before your vote?
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Why BT specifically? because questioning has to start somewhere, and I don't want to give anyone a true free pass. So I'm asking, in alphabetical order of names of active players, people questions. That put BT first.
That said, standing by rawr and Serela still being town, although Serela slightly less after the slip-up.
Affinity, you say to stop using the box as a voting reason/replacement for scumhunting and yet vote...because of box reactions? If reactions are fair game then that's fine, but without that clarification it comes off as slightly hypocritical.
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@K4U, serela.
I said I have no outstanding negative feelings about anyone. I went for affinity for the 'box vote' on a whim (and yes, his not posting just made me feel that I was justified to vote for him.)
K4U, the problem is at the 48 hour mark with the bomb set to go off, there is likely to be no concenus about who to give the bomb to if there is 3-4 wagons with 3-4 votes. I was thinking the 2nd votecount would serve as a stimulus for actually getting a majority mock lynch at 48 hours or less. It's a bit more nuanced with an actual Votecount because no one can actually hammer etc.
cuts.
@Omba. that "box vote" was gonna be for the person who gets blown up in the face. 'until that point' refers to a point in time wherein the boxkeeper would pass off the box to the person that the town designated as the person who would be blown up.
I'm going to concentrate more. I haven't been thinking deeply.
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It seems like coming back to mafia and seeing nonsensical votes on myself is standard now.
Rawr did you like completely ignore the line after one of those quotes where I say something along the lines of "I have a null read on rawr, not trying to argue that he's scum, it's just that I don't think there's any reason to be giving him a town pass like several people are"?
Affinity:What the flying fairy do you even know how to logic
Okay, answer number one. WHEN DID I EVER SAY YOU WERE TOOOOWN THIS NEVER HAPPENED YOU HAVEN'T EVEN POSTED UNTIL JUST NOW. tears forever ;_;
I never specifically said I don't want you holding onto the box either. You never posted so I was never able to evaluate how I felt about it. I simply held issue with ActionDan specifically wanting you to keep holding it, because it seemed that he found you to be the best choice despite the fact that you don't done a single thing for us to judge you by at all. Even now that it turned out he felt the opposite, it's still bad, because he's saying his preferred choice out of everyone in the game to die is someone who hadn't even posted yet WHICH SENSE DOES MAKE NOT
In your next post I expect you to move your vote somewhere else or explain a case on me that actually makes sense because that one right there just doesn't, at all. You also attack my vote on ActionDan, suggesting that it... isn't scummy for someone's preferred townie read or preferred scum read to be someone who hasn't gotten to post in the game yet?
ActionDan and Affinity are my top choices for scum right now.
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Actually ##Unvote ##Vote Affinity
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Affinity is scummy because his case on me makes absolutely no sense and pulls opinions out of thin air that I never actually had, and then attacks my vote on Dan as being suspect because... I'm not even sure because the wording is vague, but it seems to either be related to said opinions that never existed or just that my reasoning for voting Dan is suspect (I personally think it's horrible if your best town read or best scum read is someone who hasn't posted ingame yet, that reeks of not trying)
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Actually ##Unvote ##Vote Affinity
Terrible.
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Excuse me LLD, where is your vote again? At least I have one. And I believe in it too, because dear goodness Affinity I don't even. I would be very happy if you came in and made your case more clear Affinity, if possible.
And let me make this clear. Box shenanigans are not an excuse to not scumhunt. I expect all of you people to have votes on people you think are scum.
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I'd also like another votecount please.
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And let me make this clear. Box shenanigans are not an excuse to not scumhunt. I expect all of you people to have votes on people you think are scum.
And this is coming from someone who's first two votes came exclusively from box shenanigans. The next two are closely related to box shenanigans.
Anyway disappearing.
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Dormio, almost everything in the game so far is about box shenanigans. What do you wish me to do, jokevote?
There is a difference between discussing box shenanigans and looking at a post about box shenanigans and going "hey, what this person is doing looks scummy".
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Excuse me LLD, where is your vote again? At least I have one. And I believe in it too, because dear goodness Affinity I don't even. I would be very happy if you came in and made your case more clear Affinity, if possible.
And let me make this clear. Box shenanigans are not an excuse to not scumhunt. I expect all of you people to have votes on people you think are scum.
You don't pay attention do you?
I'm currently voting ActionDan. You know, before you did? I was the first one?
But your superior attitude is noted, despite the fact that you're entirely wrong (like most times).
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Oh right sorry. I went back and skimmed through posts but I must have missed that one. I really wish there was a more recent votecount.
I APOLOGIZE :C
I'm just being being ragey, which is an emotion I am not used to having.
Dormio, you on the other hand do not actually have a vote on anyone so I can legitimately be >:C at you. You complain that my votes are about box shenanigans when you yourself say that it's the only thing going on and when you yourself have no vote.
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Anyway LLD, while I am sorry about missing your vote while skimming to check if you had one (as I did not remember it), it does still remain that you did not explain why you voted ActionDan at all. I would like to know your reasoning!
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Free Candy Enter Third Votecount Van
Shadoweh (1): Dormio
Affinity (1): Serela
Dormio (0):
Kitten4u (2): Chaore, capt.h
Dr. Rawr (1): I have no name
capt.h (1) : Action Dan
Chaore: (0)
Omba (2): Conqueror, Kitten4u
I have no name (2): BT, Omba
Action Dan (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Serela (2): Dr. Rawr, Affinity
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dorian G
Holding the Box: Affinity
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 89 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
Box Timer: 41:48:14
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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I have a few issues with this post.
Firstly, the appeal to probability vote compounded with a feeble attempt at justifying it to be something more than that. What about Capt.H's confirm post appeared nervous to you Dan?
Secondly, while I've stated that box speculation is inherently null, (and obviously I find the vote/reasoning to be the main suspicious part of this post), the last line of your post has me a little on edge. How do we determine the "scummiest" player in your eyes? To different people will come different "scummiest" players. I only see this as an attempt to cause discord, with people arguing over who to give the box two, and spending less time scumhunting.
Can you explain how as a group, we can determine the "scummiest" player? Further, isn't that the intent behind a lynch mechanic?
Learn to read, Serela. This plus the post where he votes Affinity.
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Okay, maybe I should just go to bed. Normally I can at least make sense to myself but clearly I'm not functioning very well right now. This time I missed it because it was a page or two back before you actually voted him, and then he asked you about why you voted him, so I augh nevermind.
Sort of falling apart so I'm going to try and refrain from posting until I go to bed and wake up tomorrow (although I've been known to keep posting anyway after I say something like this, but)
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Serela, you seem really frantic. I don't see a problem with Dormio not having a vote on someone if he has no scum reads at the moment. I personally feel that most of the current wagons are relatively scummy, with the obvious exception of the one that seems to be forming on me ^_^.
Affinity, for his general lurkiness and lack of even trying to put up any half-decent reads with any reasoning.
Serela, for acting hypocritical about the box. In fact, this goes for anyone saying to not vote based on the box and then base their vote on the box at all.
(and yes, his not posting just made me feel that I was justified to vote for him.)
Affinity always lurks
I haven't been thinking deeply.
I'll cut some slack since I was in a similar position in the last game I played. Don't expect it to last long though, you're 3rd on my list.
Midnight Crew had 3 scum and 9 town, Sword Girls had 3 scum and 10 town, how many scum are standard for a 15 player game?
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Serela, for acting hypocritical about the box. In fact, this goes for anyone saying to not vote based on the box and then base their vote on the box at all.
Okay what did I ever do that was hypocritical.
I never said not to vote based on the box. I just said people need to scumhunt in addition to the box shenanigans. Scumhunting can be done via the box shenanigans perfectly fine as long as the logic works out.
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I should have went to bed instead of reading this, however ?
About the box in general:
I think the ?keep it till deadline and use it as a vig? idea is the lesser of two evils, even if I really don't like the fact it will be focused on the player not present at said time. But I think the ?passing chain? would be worse cause it would lead into a lot of ED1 cases overvalued by the serious lynch intent that gets assumed behind it. To be honest I have no idea how I should get reads out of this box dominated discussion much less a case that would justify a lynch. But that's likely just the effect of this late hour.
Should Dr Rawr get the Box:
I don't think so. I can agree with capth that Rawrs manner implicates town but I can't help but getting that impression that Rawr fall victim to his play instinct and I don't see it as a good idea to hand a potential dangerous object to someone who act like a child in ?want this toy? mood.
About Lucys (LambdaDelta) ideas:
Cutting the day unnecessary short is never a good idea nor am I too fond of adding the box to the lynch, mostly cause it strikes me as wasting this tool, even when we aren't sure what it actually does.
This is just to get the box topic out of the way, everything else will come later when I've actually read the game, not just skimmed it, and more important when it isn't past 4am. Having this said ?
Good night.
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I just said people need to scumhunt in addition to the box shenanigans. Scumhunting can be done via the box shenanigans perfectly fine as long as the logic works out.
Looks like I misinterpreted.
Again.
I really need to pay more attention to exact wording and not assume the first thing I think I read is what was actually written.
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I didn't feel like moving my vote because my mind was filled with platypii in boxes.
(http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FKW/CMVA/G6MPPTRI/FKWCMVAG6MPPTRI.MEDIUM.jpg)
Or platypii that are boxes. Perry!
Anyway.
Serela's first vote, wherein after raving about the wonders of the magical box, Serela votes for Rawr for asking for the box. Well, whatever.
Serela's second vote on capth is for capth suggesting that we give Rawr the box. How exactly does this make capth scum?
Serela's third vote is on Dan for suggesting that the box remain with Affinity. Again, hos does this make Dan scummy?
For the previous two cases, are you suggesting that capthxrawr/DanxAffinity are part of a scumteam? You scream about how you wouldn't give the box to these players, but then, who would you give it to?
Serela's fourth vote reads somewhat like an OMGUS to me. Then again, I don't like Affinity's #124 very much, so whatever.
Also, LLD's assertion in #96/#98 that a hammer should occur at the same time as the box going off is worrying me. I mean, I could understand it if the deadlines were at the same time, which is what LLD seemed to have interpreted it as but then LLD corrects herself and says that we should do it anyway. Assuming that this box will kill the person holding it, why would you not want to spend the next 48 hours with the flip in mind? I mean, accountability shouldn't be a problem with this box.
Also, you fail to account for the lynchee deciding simply to hold onto the box.
Considering Affinity to be town is fine and all for Dan, but he's one of the people who have made absolutely no effort towards finding scum so far. He's, like, totally content to just sit back and blabber on about the box whilst contributing absolutely nothing of value to the town.
DrRawr has a third-party-like obsession with the box. I have no clue what to make of it.
Other people are not interesting enough yet.
##Vote Affinity
Also I got cut like a whole bunch of times while looking at pictures of platypii. Did you know that a platypus' testes grow to around 20 times their normal size during their breeding season?
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Wait holy firetruck I'm tired..
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
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359 words. Hah! Firetruck you!
Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck
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Assuming 359 your added 'firetruck's total 401.
Why does third party have to make so much sense ;_;
and no one answered my question about how many scum there usually are in a 15 player game.
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So nobody wants to give me the box because i want the box? Yea thats cool....
Also no serela giving off reasons as to why im scum and calling me null for no reason? I think if you are able to get a read off affinity one post you can get a non-null read on myself. Do you think im town or scum?
Also cut by no im not 3rd party. Is it wrong for me to want nice things?
Cut again by such abusive language.
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Affinity said he'd keep the box; it seems unlikely that will change.
It's also premature to call Serela hypocritical for having box reactions, there wasn't too much to go off of. Willing to see if Serela shapes up.
Rawr's being desirous of box is wine.
Getting good gut reads from K4, wary townie. Dorian is also agreeable.
Everyelse is either way.
Not opposed to meshing K4's and ActionDan's idea to organize town for a "mock 48 hr end D1".
@Affinity: Would you be willing to have a vote on to whom the box goes as it blows (does whatever it does)?
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I think Rawr would keep the box if we gave it to him.
Anyway, I think scum are more likely to blab about box shenanigans than actual reads on people, so I'm looking there.
Recall I co-modded Chaore's game, and there was a lot of claiming early on. The townies were confused. So what did the scum do? They stood above the chaos and the mess, making a point of NOT getting involved in the shenanigans. All the speculators were town, and none of the scum speculated. BECAUSE THEY KNOW SPECULATION IS BAD.
Basically, I think that probably everyone who wrote 2 paragraphs of speculation about the box and what to do with it so far is probably town, unless something they said explicitly reeks of trying to get a townie killed with it. Kind of like how Huh What got Rawr to suicide on bomb PX, was it 2 games ago?
Stating outright that I don't think selecting the box owner by vote is a good idea. Townies tend to vote for loud people on day 1. Scum tend to be quiet. I think a vig shot is more likely to hit scum than a town majority, especially since scum won't need nearly as many votes for a plurality as a majority if they needed to take the box off their buddy.
I don't see much scum intent anywhere yet. I suspect scum haven't posted much, because this is the speculation phase. Scum can lay low for town cred simply by virtue of not getting involved.
##Unvote
Affinity has a case, I just don't think it's good. I think he's saying that having the lowest possible chance of the bomb going to scum and giving the bomb to the most obvious townie is contradictory, because the best chance of it not lying in scum hands is with him, sinc eotherwise it already lies with scum anyway.
Exceded word limit. Need to wait for another post.
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AW COME ON. SOMEONE JUST TWITTER SOMETHING SO I CAN FINISH THE POST.
Please?
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F5 DOES NOTHING.
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Stupid browser crashing. Knock yourself out.
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THANK YOU!
Dan is sheeping me while buddying up to me at the same time, while proposing some kind of voting system that I think helps scum more than town. 3-4 wagons with 3-4 votes is the worst system I can think of for this, because it's so incredibly easy for scum to sway the wagons when they're that small.
##Vote: Dan
There are people who have not spoken during the speculation phase. I suspect there is scum among them, simply because that is where scum tend to hide. The primary reason I haven't voted there is because I would like to hear from them first. Basically, there's a very special kind of lurker that posts just enough to avoid prods (or avoid the most prods, at least) with just enough content to avoid being the day 1 lynch while never dirtying their hands with town affairs. That is the type of player I would like to lynch today, over loud-mouths that are town simply by virtue of not running away until the heat dies down when they have 5 votes on them.
Anyway, I'll see what Chaore and Bob have written when tomorrow comes.
ANYWHO MY BED IS CALLING ME. SWEET MERCIFUL SLEEP YAHOO!
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Serela should take a chill pill or something and relax. What I pointed out on him was a small contradiction regarding his stance on the box issue which I saw as a scummy fumble. In his response to Omba's hot potato suggestion, he discarded it due to saying that the chances as to scum receiving the box should be minimized. But by the above reasoning, since I know myself alone to be town (if I am a townie), I should not pass the box to anyone. However, he has also advocated passing the box to the most pro-town player decided by majority and objected against me keeping the box, e.g
We want it on town, is Affinity's confirmation post so ~*~MAGICAL~*~ that he's more town then anyone here?
a.k.a implying me not to be the most town and thus not the prime candidate for keeping the box. Using the above half of the contradiction to implicate Dan seemed to me as suspect and bad.
His reaction to it (e.g voting me due to 'bad logic' and lumping me and Dan together) is less than satisfactory, however, and reeks of OMGUS. The LAL thing he has on Dan (I thought the above quote was the main point of his case) also seems rather myopic, since votes and the reasoning behind them can be easily changed with the posts I make. These don't amount to much, but I feel that Serela is the scummiest person thus far before the lurkers become distinct, or something happens etc. Thing that goes against this judgement is the noise he's making, however.
NoName is himself in this game in that he does not explain the ordering of his reads, and that some of his cases, such as that on Dan and Serela, seem especially haphazard. Criticizing me for not giving half-decent opinions on people is suspect when he did not even comment on my case on Serela, but I don't see scummy intent on these acts. Dan is Dan for going by town reads rather than scum reads, and it's too early to see where he is going with them. In short, I'm not seeing much scum intent anywhere, except maybe Mr.Bob's active-lurker like post (to which I'm not sure how to answer).
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It shouldn't really matter who the designated passer is if we're going to pass the box to the "scummiest" person. We can probably just use normal votes for this.
Conqueror: Is your vote on me a RV, or related to the box stuff you talked about before your vote?
It was mostly for talking a lot about the box without actually saying anything about it. More recently, your I have no name vote smells like poking at semantics/playing style. What's scummy about IHNN directing a question at only BT (I mean, I could think of several reasons, but your vote is...???)?
and no one answered my question about how many scum there usually are in a 15 player game.
3 or 4, depending. Also, you should put down a vote on the player you think is scummiest.
rawr, p. sure someone else has asked this already, but opinions on non-box stuff?
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@Affinity: Serela's changes of mind read more like the product of overthinking the situation to the point of incoherency; why do you think that's scummy?
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Here is Bob Scummiest people... After that.
I think that Mr. Bob is the scummiest person here right now
REASONING:
He has 2 posts total in this game, the first on word count rules (not scummy in itself) and the other, just a little bit ago.
Affinity said he'd keep the box; it seems unlikely that will change.
Re-iteration of what has already been said.
It's also premature to call Serela hypocritical for having box reactions, there wasn't too much to go off of. Willing to see if Serela shapes up.
I was trying to get discussion off of the box. We'll see what happens on Monday, but until then top priority is finding the scum.
Rawr's being desirous of box is wine.
Getting good gut reads from K4, wary townie. Dorian is also agreeable.
I came to these conclusions as well.
Everyelse is either way.
So you have exonerated 2/14 other players. You have no opinions on anyone else?
Not opposed to meshing K4's and ActionDan's idea to organize town for a "mock 48 hr end D1".
It's not a bad idea in theory. In practice though it requires minimum Affinity and possibly one other player to go along with it, and it also requires Affinity/the thrower to be online near the deadline.
@Affinity: Would you be willing to have a vote on to whom the box goes as it blows (does whatever it does)?
I don't know what the usefulness of this is.
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@Affinity: Just wondering if you'll treat the box as a "lynch" at the 48 hour mark depending on the votes at the time (meaning others have at least some input on the decision), or if you'd just prefer to use it as you see fit.
Re-reading.
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@IHNN:...I don't see that post anywhere else, so I'll assume it's yours. It's not been 12 hours since day start, so I hope your "only 2 posts" point isn't serious. But in your post you say that you came to the same conclusions as Bob. Why do you think he's the scummiest?
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Take The Box, Give Me The Fourth Votecount
Affinity (1): Serela
Dormio (0):
Kitten4u (1): Chaore
Dr. Rawr (1): I have no name
capt.h (1) : Action Dan
Chaore: (0)
Omba (2): Conqueror, Kitten4u
I have no name (2): BT, Omba
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h
Serela (2): Dr. Rawr, Affinity
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dorian G
Holding the Box: Affinity
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 86 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
Box Timer: 38:03:54
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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@IHNN:...I don't see that post anywhere else, so I'll assume it's yours. It's not been 12 hours since day start, so I hope your "only 2 posts" point isn't serious. But in your post you say that you came to the same conclusions as Bob. Why do you think he's the scummiest?
The broken quote is Mr. Bob's, the quote at the start is something I said, put through Translation Party to combat the terror of Google Translate.
The conclusions I came to that matched Bob's seemed obvious to me-K4u, despite also having few posts, at least showed effort. Dorian, less so, but I didn't see anything scummy there. rawr isn't worth spending the time worrying about alignment until closer to the box deadline.
"only 2 posts" isn't the whole problem, it's that neither of the posts really added anything.
and right after I posted he treats the box like a second lynch, which I definitely dislike because I don't like making an assumption such as "the box is a bomb" and then basing my entire ED1 strategy around it.
##Vote: Mr. Bob
Forgot to do this in my last post.
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and right after I posted he treats the box like a second lynch, which I definitely dislike because I don't like making an assumption such as "the box is a bomb" and then basing my entire ED1 strategy around it.
Uh I'm pretty sure the majority of the players have been doing this. -.- Did you not read the oodles of blither and blather about it?
Out of curiosity, if you felt those observations were obvious, is there anything else about the players in the game that catches your mind?
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@Conq
I know most other players have been doing it, and I don't necessarily like it. Like LLD said, the box gives nothing but nulltells.
In terms of other 'obvious' things...rawr doesn't seem pro-town, although this is based mostly on lack of gameplay content.
LLD seems town. Sound logic, low activity but the content is there.
Affinity and Serela lean towards scum, with Serela the scummier of the 2, though that may be either
A: PX influence for Serela (because PX always seems scummy)
B: Lack of non-box content...other than saying "play Mafia, not box"
C: Affinity's playstyle seemed scummy last game I played, and he was scum there. This may be influencing me here.
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Left yesterday with "scum aren't here yet" vibes. (Kind of a vague answer to IHNN. Sorry!)
Reading.
Serela is continuing the trend of punishing people for bad play in #129-#130, quite blatantly so at that. Affinity's case makes no sense and he pulls opinions out of thin air and does other bad stuff etc therefore scummy?
I'm not attacking you for this because I do not believe you are scum, but I AM telling you to stop doing this because it's not hunting for scum. :/
IHNN joins the "Affinity is lazy = scummy" mindset at #143. Sigh. Stop this too. -_-
Man. I don't read any of the main occurrences as scummy. Serela and Dan both look town enough to me, Affinity is fine as well, Capth is town, IHNN is town enough, Rawr is painfully Rawr (I don't know what this means but I don't think it'll change unless he wants it to). Who does that leave us with, anyway?
##Unvote
##Vote Conq
Omba attacks IHNN for selective... question asking (??), which IHNN confirms as a "whatever, just went with him for no real reason" thing. Then Conq attacks Omba for this, which I read as lazy scumhunting. "Oh yeah, my vote is still on you because you did *this* thing, almost forgot". Doesn't help that this seems like your only real opinion up to now.
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@LLD: Can you clarify your case on Dan?
@NoName: Can you substantiate why Affinity seems scummy?
@Capt: Just make sure your cases have more than Lynching Lurkers
@Dormio: Clarifying in your #147 (Serela's 3rd vote) that Dan's box vote was to kill Affinity; not an issue: making sure you interpreted right, because 2(?) people misparsed.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3d/Perry_Platypus.png/220px-Perry_Platypus.png)
You're right! I did misinterpret what Dan meant by his box vote.
Well, that just further reinforces my current belief that Serela is just weird and that Dan should die.
Rather than Dan giving a single town read and nothing else, he's just given us a single scum read with no reasoning and what appears to be no intention to follow up so far.
He expands on his town reads but fails to give any reasoning so as to why Affinity should die. I also find his inability to place a proper vote weird.
Anyway, I'm going back to looking at platypii.
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Still stand I find most of this box speculation pointless and just ripe for smokescreening. I'm fine with whatever Affinity wants to do with the box as such.
Not entirely liking BT at the moment. He comes back from reactionary play to dissuade us from saying anything bad about Affinity. I normally don't blame him for stuff like this, but it takes up most of his post dissuading 'bad play punishing', only to come back to clearing everyone like 'oh jeez everyone looks fine' and then lazily deciding to vote Conq for 'lazy scumhunting', which... is mostly bad play. It feels like hes forcing out a vote rather than he actually thinks Conq is scum, and that seems like something that's pretty scummy.
##Unvote, ##Vote: BT
Not entirely liking Serela at the moment either, his Affinity 'case' is an entirely huge OMGUS and he's been acting rather pushy about the box for someone who seems to agree with me that we shouldn't be as hung up about the box as we currently are.
I want to punch Dormio but I'm pretty sure that's because he's Dormio. So I think he may be town.
Conq needs to post again. Here's something for you Conq, Still think Omba is scum? Any changes? Anyone else you don't like?
Mr. Bob needs to stop asking questions and start Answering questions please. Like who scum is.
i think i was thinking something about capt. h but he has the power to make mortal men want to devour flesh so i think that's normal
it's 5 and this took like 7 hours for some reason, also i may be around sparingly tommorow due to schoolwork, but i'll make an effort to stay around a bit longer and post more rational things
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It feels like hes forcing out a vote rather than he actually thinks Conq is scum
If it feels like it then it's probably true. It would be ideal for everyone to have strong convictions 24 hours in but that's not the case most of the time!
Most of my reads are town reads. I'm having trouble finding teh scums and Conq reads as strangely lazy.
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It was mostly for talking a lot about the box without actually saying anything about it. More recently, your I have no name vote smells like poking at semantics/playing style. What's scummy about IHNN directing a question at only BT (I mean, I could think of several reasons, but your vote is...???)?
That question amounted to nothing more than a lurker prod. It should be obvious why spreading out questions like that over multiple posts instead of asking all similar players with that trait at once is bad: It allows you to write about the exact same thing multiple times without actually repeating yourself; i.e. it's a way to look like you're doing more than you actually are.
Of course there are times when prodding just one lurker is correct - when there is just one, or when he has something specific about him that warrants closer inspection. BT was neither the only lurker nor did I have no name mention anything specific about him that stood out (and he has since admitted as much), so yeah.
Comparison: The posts about Mr. Bob he has since made. Which, although somewhat derpy, show an effort to actually do something.
Other stuff. Serela is being... Serela on speed? Pretty much unreadable for the time being, don't want him lynched D1 as it stands.
@LLD: Can you clarify your case on Dan?
She's been asked to do that a few times now. Which you might have noticed if you read more carefully.
If there's something specific about her case you want explained in detail, you might want to point that out instead of asking a broad question like this that most likely will result in just another reference to what she already said.
In short, this question achieves nothing. Then why ask it?
Omba attacks IHNN for[...] (quote shortened)
Err... what? You point out yourself that you thought of my case as (??), then you attack Conq for... attacking me for it? The TWUCK?
Next post of yours: You pretty much admit your reason to vote Conq and hence your vote itself is RAINBOWS.
Yeah no, "please excuse me for putting out RAINBOW reads because all my other reads are useless but I need to vote someone" doesn't cut it.
##Unvote
##Vote BT
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@Conq: While I admit the contradiction itself wasn't very scummy past 'scum are likely to fumble regarding similar issues', I thought it sufficed for a D1 case. His reactions to my case in the form of OMGUS however, isn't encouraging, and cemented my scumread on him.
@Bob: I will probably factor wagons into consideration. To echo everyone else, what do you think of the current cases against Serela, IHNM, and BT so far?
As for BT, I can certainly see the germ of truth in his accusation that Conq's sustaining of his vote on Omba feels a bit like a carryover (since Conq has been asking different questions while seemingly not using Omba's answers) and that Conq hasn't said much past box issues and Omba. While I can see the points on him (e.g all town reads, one scumread) , there's a certain weirdness to the votes on him at the moment, since Chaore seems to agree with BT on some facet of the case in his questioning of Conq and Omba seems to be avoiding the main point of BT's case. Would like both to elaborate on this.
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I think he's saying that having the lowest possible chance of the bomb going to scum and giving the bomb to the most obvious townie is contradictory, because the best chance of it not lying in scum hands is with him, sinc eotherwise it already lies with scum anyway.
Exactly. The point of passing it to someone people can generally agree is somewhat town is in case Affinity is scum himself, and that other people would make the decision and he would have to adhere to it or get massive frowniefaced at.
But if people don't actually take to the idea then it won't work because lack of frowniefacing to where risk outweighs benefits of keeping the box for Town OR Scum Affinity. Like Mr.Bob said, it's not likely Affinity will change his mind on keeping the box (at the least until deadline where iunno if he's planning on throwing it or what), and that isn't going to change if everyone does not pressure him to do otherwise in good faith and good reasoning. That being said, I don't have faith in town to actually pull off this pressure, so oh well.
Rawr, you act like it's possible to actually get a good read on absolutely anyone less then 24 hours into the game. Go bother somebody else, you have no case on me. Your post where you vote me had a critical problem in that it ignored something I said that completely deconstructed your reason to vote me, and now you're just voting me because I have a null read on you. It's silly.
Affinity:Yes, it's not possible for you to be the most town player in the game if you hadn't posted yet. What is strange about that? As for you knowing yourself to be the towniest player by virtue of mod confirmation, yes, I know that. But nobody other then you does. You can declare yourself the one to keep the box as you have that power right now, the other thing in the way is other people giving you flak for it (Which I don't particularly forsee happening, so oh well)
I agree with the reasoning that the box should be used as a vig shot by whoever has it instead of as a second lynch decided by people's votes.
Running out of words, will respond to BT and other people regarding my play/my Affinity vote this game later. I also join the band of people that don't like BT.
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K.
Even if Conq had already voted me before that point (for box reasons at a point where there wasn't much else than box stuff), the fact that I happen to have done something that could be seen as scummy, causing him to keep his vote on me for it, is something I can't see as scummy, rather than chance, given that's it ED1. I'm seeing a few people other than Conq who have not voiced more than basically one opinion about anything besides box related stuff. So that leads me to wonder why he specifically went for Conq. As the other reason for his Conq vote seems constructed to me, that makes his case as a whole appear thus: Take one of a few similar players, selected by the easiest criterion (amount of content) and create a reason for picking one of them. So, yeah. Understandably, creating a reason as opposed to actually having a reason seems scummy to me. It reeks of "I need to vote someone so I won't stand out for not voting someone".
If he actually does have a sound reason for picking Conq, he has yet to tell us. He says he appears strangely lazy to him, but somehow leaves out what the actually strange part about his laziness is. If it's just a gut read, then he should say so.
c-c-c-CUT
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Now that I have more words, Affinity how do you feel about Dan's -actual- intention over wanting you to blow up 48 hours into d1? You've only commented on my initial interpretation of it, aka him wanting you to hold the box.
Rereading more n stuff since I have words again
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Serela is continuing the trend of punishing people for bad play in #129-#130, quite blatantly so at that. Affinity's case makes no sense and he pulls opinions out of thin air and does other bad stuff etc therefore scummy?
Bad Case =/= Bad Play.
Having a case made of BS and dumb is scummy, especially if the person who made that case should know better. (This is not the same as having a case I wouldn't agree with, that isn't explicitly scummy)
he's been acting rather pushy about the box for someone who seems to agree with me that we shouldn't be as hung up about the box as we currently are.
It's a thing, because hey, while it's not good to get too much into playing the setup, it's also important that we correctly take advantage of the box assuming it's a bomb.
I also think it's ridiculous how many people seem to think voting someone due to their box shenanigans means I didn't actually scumhunt. Also Dormio keep in mind those silly early votes I did were like what, less then 6 hours after the game started. Of course they're silly, we were still practically in "getting out of RVS"-stage.
IHNN joins the "Affinity is lazy = scummy" mindset at #143. Sigh. Stop this too. -_-
but but but
it's truuuue
B: Lack of non-box content...other than saying "play Mafia, not box"
do you seeeeeee my voooooootes
scumhunting from box shenanigans is still scumhunting >:C
The LAL thing he has on Dan
Affinity what are you even talking about I do not EVEN ;_;
I also don't see how I lumped you and Dan together. I just said you were both the scummiest people I saw. This does together lumping not make
Honestly, Affinity just seems to be analyzing the words I say and trying to twist them into a way where he can vote me off a technicality. It's ridiculous. His main reasons for not liking me are from twisting things I say so that they sort of look as if they contradict eachother.
Affinity/Dan still imo the worst people, Affinity > Dan, iunno where I stand on BT exactly (I don't really like him, I know that much) I'd rather wait and let things develop on that end before I would want to have him lynched/bombed/whatever.
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Affinity/Dan still imo the worst people, Affinity > Dan, iunno where I stand on BT exactly (I don't really like him, I know that much) I'd rather wait and let things develop on that end before I would want to have him lynched/bombed/whatever.
What specifically do you not like about BT? Which points of the cases on him do you agree/disagree with? Wait and see is bad because it allows you to later adjust your opinion to whatever other people think of him at that point.
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So I'm back but still not in the picture as I would like to be but that can't be helped right now. I need a case and a vote first, then I can spend time on sorting the other stuff out.
First, I really dislike the generalized assumption that a certain alignment will participate in the speculation more or less then the other. I can see the reason behind both assumptions, so it may help as a starting point but putting too much focus on it at a later point would be worrisome at best. Having this said ?
##Vote: capt. h
Not only that you vote him for being honest enough to mention a possible flaw in his plan it also contradicts your ?Town will participate in the speculation more then scum? assumption, what's kinda silly cause we talk about Dan who is well known to jump into any kind of speculation at any point regardless of his alignment. Your reservation against the ?people who have not spoken during the speculation phase? is also worrisome for two reasons, first it's degraded your Dan vote to a voteparck cause you said yourself the your suspicion goes into other directions and second, it puts you in the same ?lay low? position you are trying to condemn with your earlier assumption.
More will come after I had lunch and more time to read.
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@Omba: Well aware of LLD's #141; still want some elaboration on the non-quote part. Cut: Halfway down your #176 you forgot to say your "he" is referring to BT.
@Affinity: Roger. Wilco.
Serela and Dan are both making bad plays. Affinity's #158 on Serela consolidates well, but can't bring myself to see eye to eye, I do not place much stock on the "slip-up", Serela's reaction seems genuine because he thought Affinity was putting words in his mouth. Dan is trying to get some organization, which can be good, but not comfortable with way he would shoehorn town when it's been said either alignment could throw the box again. Also, feel it's bad play to vote Affinity for nigh "anyone will do" reasons.
NoName feels like he's being swept along in the current of the game, need more input. Cut: Plus the case against him just washed away.
BT #172 admits to not having strong convictions, fine. Proceeds with line of questioning, that Conq's vote could be carryover (could be chance). Will be watching how this plays out.
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i think i was thinking something about capt. h but he has the power to make mortal men want to devour flesh so i think that's normal
SUPER POWERS WOHOO!
I DEffinitely would like to hear Affinity explain when NeoSerela EVER suggessted we Lynch All Lurkers as areason for voting Dan, because I don't remember that at all.
I may be premature, but it looks like Dan's doing that thing where he only talks just enough to avoid a prod when everyone is voting for him. It's how he's traditionally avoided D1 lynches as scum when he has attracted a wagon; letting someone else take the spotlight when his wagon got tired of not having anything to go off of and a townie somewhere stuck his foot in his mouth. Course, the best way to see if that's what he's doing is to keep right on voting him for playing like scum Dan plays.
Serela is town by way of trying to hard. He ain't UK, I don't believe he posts 8x more often as scum than as town.
Honestly, Chaore and Bob are both guilty of setting off the scum tells I developed while I was away from mafia. I'd like to see what Bob does with the answers to the questions he asks, and I'd like Chaore to try to be active and make himself center stage. Most scum won't take the center especially day 1, because if they do then town has lots of information to go off of. And Chaore explicitly promised to stay at the sidelines.
HOWEVER, THERE IS NO WAY I'LL MOVE MY VOTE BEFORE DAN POSTS. Dan has gotten away with murder simply by lurking out the fallout of the scumy things he said as scum, and he shouldn't be allowed to do it in this game.
- cut by vote for me -
Exeeded word limit with response. DARN IT.
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I'm right here.
My internet got cut last night and a few hours before that I was working. I was incredibly pissed off last night at a few choice people but I feel a bit better now. I'm working right now but in a few hours I'll be rereading.
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THANKS FOR POSTING
-response to Dorian-
WOHOO DAY 1 LYNCH OR TOWNIE OBVTOWN BABY
That was my goal this game. I'm worried I'm failing it ;_;
ALSO, WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M LAYING LOW DURING THE SPECULATION PHASE. I POSTED OUTRIGHT MY OPINIONS ON HOW TO HANDLE THE BOX.
I'M EVEN USING CAPSLOCK.
Anyways, I can see why you dislike my thinking about one alignment being more prone to speculation than the other, and I understand completely why you don't like it. I'm not voting on the tells everyone AGREES with, I'm voting on the tells which seem true to me based on my experience. WHICH IS WHY I EXPLICITLY MENTION CHAORE'S GAME - TO EXPLAIN WHERE I FIRST NOTICED THE TELL. I firmly believe speculation, while bad, tends to be town and not speculating is something scum is more likely do to look town because everyone assumes its good.
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Having a case made of BS and dumb is scummy, especially if the person who made that case should know better. (This is not the same as having a case I wouldn't agree with, that isn't explicitly scummy)
You're joking, right? You're saying that experienced players can't play bad because they know better. Affinity's play the game before this one counters this argument.
We are all human, therefore we all make mistakes. Scum like to capitalize on mistakes instead of scummy behavior for their cases. I feel that you are at least slightly guilty of this, therefore I keep pointing it out.
By the by, Serela, you never elaborate on "why I hate BT". All you're doing so far is lite-cheerleading with "I just hate him, I don't think he's scum yet", which... I don't know what to make of this line at all.
Yeah no, "please excuse me for putting out RAINBOW reads because all my other reads are useless but I need to vote someone" doesn't cut it.
Nope, not what went on at all. I think my vote, despite not having very strong conviction behind it, is perfectly fine, seeing as it's still early, and had I thought it was too weak I wouldn't have put it down in the first place. I'm not hungry for blood but the vote is far from forced.
Conq's vote on you isn't unjustified, it's just awkward. So far all he's been doing is asking questions and sharing suggestions. Which were fine, yes, but notice that his only real involvement in this game was his by the by comment on how his vote is staying on your because *reason*. I thought it's lazy scumhunting, but it may be an attempt to be subtle as well. Which is just as bad, if not worse.
Will be doing some more reading before I continue. Plus, I bet I'm nearing the vote limit by now. Or I don't know how to count. That's a pretty real possibility.
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Word limit. What is a vote limit anyway? :V
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Posting for BT's CONVENIENCE :dealwithit:
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Done "reading", since apparently there was next to nothing that needs reading and oh boy nothing's changed!
I can't tell if the fact that Omba added to/changed his case on me midway is scummy or not. At first he was attacking my bad reads, then he moves on to explain that my read was constructed, which is a lot stronger, and should not have been left out in his original post. (I don't agree with any of this, since I had no reason to 'go after Conq' of all people, but kay)
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Even Fifth Votecount Has To Sleep Sometimes
Affinity (1): Serela
capt.h (2) : Action Dan, Dorian G
Omba (2): Conqueror, Kitten4u
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h
Serela (2): Dr. Rawr, Affinity
Mr. Bob (1): I have no name
Conqueror (1): BT
BT (2): Chaore, Omba
Dormio (0):
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
I have no name (0):
Chaore: (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob
Holding the Box: Affinity
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 73 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
Box Timer: 25:22:47
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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##Unvote
##Vote: I have no name
IHNN (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811066.html#msg811066) reads scum to me after that post. You're passing serela as scum because of px? Box talking isnt a way to determine scum. How is affinity play style scummy? you seemed to have agreed with the slip-up he mentioned serela, do you still agree with that?
Serela dont act like youre the townest thing out there. Your cases on actiondan and affinity sum up to bad play, but you know what? IHNN is right there ignoring parts of peoples posts and not to mention going after SUCH an easy target. Oh and your OMGUS vote on affinity. Giving reasons as to why im probably scum and saying null wont pass, in fact is makes no sense.
Omba why are you going, "serela bein serela" and "dan bein dan" thats not helping and shouldnt pass people off as not scum for that reason
Oh and I dont think theres any problem with box talk. It doesnt count as a "smoke screen" if 3 different people mention that. So quit trying to say box talk is scummy and getting some imaginary town cred.
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@Affinity: ...and? I'm not voting him because he thinks theres something wrong with Conq, I'm voting him because his vote is forced and has no actual conviction after basically floating around and reacting to things early game. He's not actually trying to scumhunt in my eyes, he's just floating and poking and placing obligatory votes and defending himself. He's not trying to hunt down teh scums he just wants a vote. This is irregardless of if I think Conq needs to talk more.
@Capt.: stop using them in mafia, it's cheating. When I said I didn't give two PLATIPI about the box, I meant it because by all means I was expecting it'd become SILLY wifom about whats in it and arguing about who we should give it to as such. I stayed out until later both due to taking 7 hours to make that last post, and plain being busy. You're basically trying to dress Lynch All Lurkers up here, and you should know that DARN TOOTIN well.
Stop and think about what you're saying.
@Rawrcut: oh hey glad to see you're finally doing something other than begging for the box.
Explain the last part of your post in more depth. I don't see how people mentioning things that you do not define dissuades the fact that the box is essentially an excuse to talk about something that isn't other people and instead wifom about what the box does and what should be done with it.
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Thats not really what i meant. I dont get why its necessary for people to mention multiple times about "smoke screen" for scum. I dont like how people are going after other people JUST because of box talking, its lazy and we shouldnt be labeling people as scum for that. Not to mention im pretty sure the word "hypocrisy" was thrown around a couple of times in some posts.
It does suck not getting the box....
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@Capt.: stop using them in mafia, it's cheating. When I said I didn't give two PLATIPI about the box, I meant it because by all means I was expecting it'd become SILLY wifom about whats in it and arguing about who we should give it to as such. I stayed out until later both due to taking 7 hours to make that last post, and plain being busy. You're basically trying to dress Lynch All Lurkers up here, and you should know that DARN TOOTIN well.
Stop and think about what you're saying.
Alright, well, here's the thingy I'm kinda sorta ABSOLUTELY getting at.
While I was away, I decided that those super boring traditional ways of making cases didn't apply one iota to day 1, where at best all cases are weak and misinformed. As in, I decided that the day 1 scum lynch rate was worse than random chance.
So I looked around for new thingies that actually did apply to scummies on day 1. I DEcided before the game began that I would rely on those things that scum actually did and didn't do instead of traditional cases.
Scum lurked, typically posted enough to avoid prods (not always, but they were never the lurkiest when they did), tended to stay out of the setup madness, and were generally boring and never the center of attention. A lot of them tended to lurk/shut up whenever they had a lot of votes on them.
So... I kinda sorta decided to base town/scum on who was drawing the most/least attention and getting burned for it, and decided to forget traditional tells in favor of my new one, since the old ones just get townies kiled. At least on day 1.
Noise generation is TOWN. Hiding is SCUM. This would let me actually hit scum, even when scum hasn't posted enough for me to make a valid case using the traditional methods.
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You're passing serela as scum because of px?
Affinity and Serela lean towards scum, with Serela the scummier of the 2, though that may be either
A: PX influence for Serela (because PX always seems scummy)
I can see where you'd get that impression from what I said, but it's not what I meant. I felt that Serela and Affinity were scummy, but having lack of evidence I realized that there may be reasons not related to gameplay. PX influencing Serela posts could have been one of the reasons, just due to playstyle. I was not trying to imply I thought Serela was scum because he has a hydra with PX, more that Serela having a hydra with PX may be influencing my impressions.
IHNN is right there ignoring parts of peoples posts
Ignoring, misinterpreting and misrepresenting are 3 different things. I have not actively ignored parts of posts, nor have I tried to misrepresent what anyone said. This leaves misinterpretations, which are scummy how?
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I dont care what you call it, it adds up to bad play serela is ignoring and going after dan and affinity for the same reasons
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Bob, I'm going to re-iterate what I said once again.
I gave my reasons for voting Dan. If you can't see what I'm voting Dan for in the post I referenced, then there isn't much I can do to help you.
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The mod tells me to post something equivalent to "fluffy bunnies" in the topic to avoid getting tarred or whatnot.
And so, I will write "awesome firetrucks" instead.
Sorry, but I'm going to be unable to follow the thread for roughly a day while I get on top of uni commitments.
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Dormio has requested 24 hours V/LA. Players will not be made immune to any actions while V/LA, but requests will be announced.
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I admit that lay low was the wrong word choice, the more correct phrasing would be ?lean back and lats town mess up on it's own?. I guess we can agree that this would be a fitting description of the tail you are looking for and I'm on the edge to decide if you use this method while condemning it or not. I also can't say that your still quite reserved position isn't helping here.
... WHICH IS WHY I EXPLICITLY MENTION CHAORE'S GAME - TO EXPLAIN WHERE I FIRST NOTICED THE TELL. ...
You don't talk about IMP Mafia, do you? Cause I'm quite sure that Dan was town that game and a distracting noise as always.
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811257.html#msg811257) is interesting in so far as I still don't see how your Dan vote fits into this picture. I mean he already generated enough noise to make himself the leading wagon, as much as you can call three votes a leading wagon, and you can't go on and say he ?hides? it out before he actually did it.
I also have to say that this game starts to get kinda frustrating for me cause I get that feeling that this plain inconsequential manner comes actually from a town player.
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Dan generated just enough noise to get 3 players to vote him, then hasn't said anything interesting (or at all, besides I'll be back later) since. I'm going to keep right on voting the guy until he says something that makes me think he's townie. Because this is how he handled being scum in magical madness mafia. Every one of his day 1 posts were terrible or mediocre or promises to get back to us later, bringing turning himself into a wagon. Then he totes lurks as much as possible without receiving a prod, so much so that he didn't have time to give us the content he promised.
WE have the early game slipup followed by the promise to get back to us later prod dodge.
But if you want to know what was going through my mind AT THE TIME, it was that I couldn't see anyone really responding scummily to the box, because they all kinda drowned themselves in it. WHICH MEANT LOOK AT CHAORE OR BOB. NEITHER OF THEM HAVE IMPRESSED ME. Bob forgot to but his vote down so he's the better of the two, but that gets into icky wi-fomy arguments and bleh. Chaore however, has done the scummy response of disregarding the box as a smokescreen and discouraging box talk (which I explained was scummy In My Reads) makes an alright case on BT for being scum, says Serela's suspicious, and then doesn't really offer opinions on anyone else but gets reporter on a bunch of players, including myself.
Course, you can't vote a player for not talking 6 hours into the game. That's just plain rude. And Dan did that thing where he buddied up to me which he's done as scum, to me personally, if I recall correctly, which saying he agreed with my reasons on Rawr without elaborating. And then there's that 3-4 townie wagon thingy, bleh, bad idea. SO I VOTED HIM. I DON'T LIKE BEING BUDDIED UP TO.
Anyway, since then Chaore confirmed my suspicions, with all the reportering and lack of opinions, but I CAN'T JUST UNVOTE DAN WHILE HE'S STILL BEING SCUM DAN. And the best way to catch scum Dan is to keep voting him until he's town dan, because LAST time I took my vote off him for playing like he's playing right now, he flipped scum and we missed him on the day 1 lynch instead making dual wagons between townie cops.
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Omba why are you going, "serela bein serela" and "dan bein dan" thats not helping and shouldnt pass people off as not scum for that reason
Because attacking them for being themselves is useless. They will post things I can actually use for reading intent (example being that thing of Serela's I quoted a few posts ago) and I will base my read of them off of that. As it stands, lynching them would amount to flipping a coin and that's RAINBOWS.
Will be watching how this plays out.
Will be taking part in how this plays out would be preferable. You're also currently the only person without any vote whatsoever. Make up your mind and do something.
BT: (#185) You're using a lot of words without actually addressing anything about your case. No, "I think my vote is perfectly fine" doesn't cut it when I've just cut it apart from basically every direction.
Btw, nice going there. People you recently mentioned: Your bad case (Conq), one of the people that attacked you for it (me) and... one of the current wagons (Serela).
(#188) What exactly about developing a case further when asked to elaborate on it is (maybe) scummy (is it actually scummy, or not?)? Also note that I did not change my case as you state. Everything I've later explained in more detail was already in my original post where I voted you.
There's a few people that haven't said much or even nothing at all for quite a while now. Please do post. Specifically looking at Kitten4U, LLD, Dan and (to a lesser extent) Dorian and Conq here.
--cut by Dorian saying something
Do you have opinions on people that are not-capt.-h?
Wait... what? I somehow missed capt. h was actually voting Dan of all people for those reasons.
...
capt. h: You do realise that while Dan currently fits the "lurking it up" part of your criteria, he sure as FLUFFY is getting burned. And not for the lurking, at that (except by you). And has involved himself quite a bit in the setup speculation. Something does not match up there. Except if you're specifically voting him for the lurking-after-getting-voted part -only-.
--cut by capt. h /reading
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That actually explains things.
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Dorian: Your last sentence makes keeping your vote on him kind of pointless then.
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Dorian is probably scum btw.
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@Capth: I think the box speculation is different in this case. Role discussion is traditionally "anti-town," but this isn't role discussion. No one outs their abilities, no one hints if they have one, and by commenting on box shenanigans scum don't risk making it obvious their role PM isn't like the town role PM or forcing themselves into a particular role claim later. Plus, since this looks like a bomb, they have to worry about it potentially killing them. Anyway, I just think you're looking at the wrong things here. You can't apply solid rules to things without understanding why scum act a certain way. Mafia just doesn't work like that.
With that said, more box speculation. I don't understand why people are suggesting we use it for anything but a second lynch. On a real wagon. The vig option is just if we're too incompetent to do that. Do people not realize how powerful this is? We'll have a wagon to analyze without scum getting a NK. It's like being able to have D2 before the scum any any kills at all. This is a big deal people. Even if scum try to avoid the wagons since we can't put anyone at L-1 they'll have to have a reason for avoiding them and we can use that as part of the wagon analysis. The only downside to blowing up one of the 2 - 3 wagons that'll likely form is that it might hit town, which isn't really that much of a downside considering how D1 is.
I'd like everyone that thinks a different method is better to explain why their idea is better than having a free wagon to analyze.
##Unvote
##Vote Dorian
Of the three I mentioned in my first post I still think Omba's the worst, but his recent posts make him more town than Dorian. His first post is pure box speculation (and I already explained how I feel about that), and the posts after are comments on one person, and it doesn't even read like he really believes in the case.
I have more stuff to say, but I'm about out of words. Can someone post? :V
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I dont care what you call it, it adds up to bad play serela is ignoring and going after dan and affinity for the same reasons
...ok, so if misinterpreting is bad play, and you misinterpreted me, then you're playing badly.
Keep going K4u.
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You voted Dan because he box voted me, didn't he? Dan's reasoning behind the vote was that since no one seemed very scummy to him, he might as well put it on someone who hadn't posted yet (LAL), which you took issue with. And I take issue with that, in return.
As for what I think on Dan, I already said here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811035.html#msg811035) that I thought your case on him was myopic in that Dan can freely change votes and the reasoning behind it. It was premature for you to assume otherwise as the crux of your case against him. He's null in your eyes.
Having a case made of BS and dumb is scummy, especially if the person who made that case should know better
This is very naive view of human psychology, and it might even be hypocritical in your case.
As for you knowing yourself to be the towniest player by virtue of mod confirmation, yes, I know that. But nobody other then you does.
And nobody other than me shall keep the box. I'm not getting why you think the opinions of many should supersede mod confirmation from my point of view. As long as I have the chance to vig scum, I will do it with minimal risk of passing it to scum. The idea that you don't trust town to 'pull off the pressure' against me is nothing but self-centered.
===
That said, despite Serela's response (and new cases and scumreads) being unimpressive, I suppose the 'contradiction' thing is a moot point if he so fully believes in it. Will change my vote given new content.
It's nice to tag team with K4u.
##Unvote
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\o/
Comments on current wagons
I don't like the BT wagon at all. It looks like people are attacking a confused player for being confused and going for the best thing he has in said confusion.
The Serela wagon is incredibly silly and I don't understand why it exists. Looks like people are attacking him for being loud.
I suppose I can get behind the Dan wagon since he's voting someone he thinks is town and is random voting for the box vote, but I don't find the case very strong. It's the best of the three wagons right now.
This worries me somewhat because I want us to start thinking about consolidating the wagons, but I think they all suck. :V
---
To elaborate on Dorian, I don't understand where his accusations are coming from. How is Capth on the edge of things? He's been making quite a bit of noise in my opinion. What's wrong with his view about speculation? I think that he's wrong too, but why is it worrying? Is worrying scummy? Do you have opinions on people that aren't Capth?
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##Vote: Conqueror
The idea behind this vote lies in my post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811146.html#msg811146), as well as BT's vote. Conqueror at first votes Omba and renews his vote twice with new questions, both here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg810855.html#msg810855) (box issue), and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811036.html#msg811036) (case issue), and I get the feeling that the questioning is stretched beyond its course and that his vote is wasting away as a vote-park, since he doesn't seem to publicly address Omba's answers. With the latest post he seems to hint at having some opinions on IHNM and others, but so far he hasn't commented on other people or the main wagons, and his current case isn't strong enough to excuse him from these.
As for Chaore, the thing is that you are questioning Conq for exactly the same reasons as BT is voting him (e.g what of your vote on Omba, etc.) . Despite your sound criticisms against BT (e.g the hypocrisy, etc.), it's interesting that you do not sympathize with his case on the above level.
Bob, you seem to have narrowed down your choice on either Serela or Dan. Who do you dislike more, and who would you vote? Nameless, conversely, seems to be passive-aggressive and talking about things (reads on me and Serela) 2 pages ago; his failure to take Bob's new post into account for his vote feels fishy, but so far this is still consistent with what I've seen of him as town.
As for lynch candidates, I would choose the Dan wagon above all else at the moment, though of course this might change when he eventually posts. My opinion on Serela is still pending on whether (or how) he keeps his 'bad case' case against me and what he has to say on BT and others.
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BT: I'll admit I'm being somewhat lazy right now. I don't have as much time to put into the game as I would like. Only real reason I kept my vote on Omba was that it was the best thing I had at the time.
I don't like Dorian's vote on capt. h. Describing capt. h as voteparking on Dan and laying low feels like mudslinging, + capt. h is pretty obvtown imo. Dorian hasn't been very involved in the game otherwise.
##Unvote
##Vote Dorian
Bob needs to put down a vote.
Other stuff in next post.
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Conqueror at first votes Omba and renews his vote twice with new questions, both here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg810855.html#msg810855) (box issue), and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811036.html#msg811036) (case issue), and I get the feeling that the questioning is stretched beyond its course and that his vote is wasting away as a vote-park, since he doesn't seem to publicly address Omba's answers.
I only asked Omba what he'd do with the box because of this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg810832.html#msg810832), which didn't take a position either way. As for the rest, not sure what you're looking for. His recent content is decent enough.
I have no name is one of those people I'm not going to be able to read until more stuff has happened. His vote is on one of my null reads, so :shrug:
I felt that Serela and Affinity were scummy, but having lack of evidence I realized that there may be reasons not related to gameplay. PX influencing Serela posts could have been one of the reasons, just due to playstyle. I was not trying to imply I thought Serela was scum because he has a hydra with PX, more that Serela having a hydra with PX may be influencing my impressions.
That said, @IHNN: How would Serela hydra-ing with PX mean anything for the slot, since Serela is the only one posting? PX's playstyle is going to have approximately 0 influence on this, so I'm just wondering what your reasoning was for that.
I don't think Dan is scum. The box holder vote is silly and unnecessary, but his thoughts read genuine. Waiting on Dan to appear and give his scumreads.
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Kitten4u: Using the box as a second lynch amounts to a coinflip on whether it actually is a bomb. If it isn't, the best case is we don't get anything out of it. Worst case it directly hurts town.
Does Dorian not read as confused to you? And how is BT's RAINBOW read on Conq a good thing?
Also, you mention that I'm still the worst of three people you mentioned earlier, but more town than Dorian. Does that make me your second pick for a lynch after Dorian?
If so, what exactly is it that makes me your second pick, apart from what you had mentioned at the time you voted me?
Furthermore, any stuff about people other than your two picks and the wagons?
Affinity: Why Dan over Serela?
--cut by Conq
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I'm here to say that I'm with Kitten on the whole box-as-lynch thing being a good idea.
Now I'm not here because platypii are weird.
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For me at least, one difference between Dorian and BT is that BT was involved in early game discussion, and his content there gave me a slight town read.
Using the box as a second lynch amounts to a coinflip on whether it actually is a bomb. If it isn't, the best case is we don't get anything out of it. Worst case it directly hurts town.
Not sure what you're trying to suggest here, if anything. I just say we Occam's Razor the thing.
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@Omba
You're saying we should give up what could be a freaken huge boon to the town just because there's a chance it might not be? That's like saying we shouldn't lynch because we might hit town. :|
He does not. BT's vote comes from a place I can understand. It's not strong, but I fail to see how it's scummy.
Yes. There's still the box stuff from earlier, and I think your current vote is awful. There's also the whole, not wanting to use the box as a lynch, but I'm debating whether this is scummy or misguided at the moment.
Nope. If I had more stuff to say I would have said it.
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That said, @IHNN: How would Serela hydra-ing with PX mean anything for the slot, since Serela is the only one posting? PX's playstyle is going to have approximately 0 influence on this, so I'm just wondering what your reasoning was for that.
I felt Serela was scummy and went looking for potential reasons. That was one of the ones I came up with, which was also a reason why I may be getting a false positive.
Nameless, conversely, seems to be passive-aggressive and talking about things (reads on me and Serela) 2 pages ago; his failure to take Bob's new post into account for his vote feels fishy, but so far this is still consistent with what I've seen of him as town.
I didn't see anything to respond to and the post didn't change my opinions.
Something to add to m last post that I just realized now: rawr, any reason for voting me other than "bad play" which, by your definition, half the playerlist could be voted for, yourself included.
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I felt Serela was scummy and went looking for potential reasons. That was one of the ones I came up with, which was also a reason why I may be getting a false positive.
>_> So basically, gut, okies. Although what do you mean by a false positive?
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Conq: What I'm saying is that treating the box as a vig shot will yield a read on the player throwing it no matter what the box then actually does, provided the player he targeted flips at some point. Whereas using it as a second lynch is only beneficial if it actually does blow up and kill the person holding it.
Also, it's not like everyone could just pass the box around on a whim without any reason. So chances are it will end up on one of the wagons and if it blows up, will yield us a second sort-of-lynch anyway.
Should a scum be the last person to throw it, that's nice too. If it blows up, that means he'll have been forced to actually flip someone; someone he has been accusing of being scum, at that.
Kitten4u: That's... not like saying we should not lynch because it might hit town. The opposite, actually. Using your comparison, if we use it as a lynch and nothing (or something other than BOOM) happens, that's equivalent to a no-lynch. If we use it as a vig, we get a better read on everyone that had the box at some point. They'll all be forced to show us who exactly they -really- want dead.
Dorian is btw what I would expect a confused newish player to post like. Minus the part where he doesn't change his vote when he notices his own confusion. Definitely not someone to lynch for that.
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>_> So basically, gut, okies. Although what do you mean by a false positive?
I'm saying I don't know Serela's alignment, so if he's town and I thought he was scum then it'd be a false positive.
LLD, Dan, thoughts on how the box should be used?
Omba, using it as a lynch gives an opinion from everyone, at least everyone who decided to give input on it. Using it as a vig only gives input from those who had it-meaning not as many.
@mod, can we get a votecount?
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I fail to see how declaring who we would vig would give us better reads over forming wagons. How is saying I want ______ to die any different with box passing? Especially since there's a good chance not everyone would get it? Especially since scum passing it to buddies is viable since their buddy could pass it to someone else? Especially since coming up with a reason to lynch one person isn't all that difficult?
I don't understand how going for a second lynch isn't "worth the risk" with the info we have. The day is longer than usual, the clues in the mod post point to it being a bomb, both of these point to it being likely that the box will kill someone. And even if it doesn't, we'll have wagons to look at. And since most everyone seems to think it's a bomb they'll be treating the wagons as though they're actual lynch wagons. You're going to have to explain to me how your plan is better.
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A vig can kill anyone he wants to. A lynch means you must convince half the other players, too. Hence a vig kill eliminates all the need to give up on lynching someone for the sole reason that you can't convince enough other players of your view. For this reason the kind of read one yields is not like the other. As for not everyone getting a chance to throw the box, the same is true for a lynch; only one more than half the players actually decide a lynch. Though I suppose the less time until end of countdown there is left, the less people will get to throw the box, so I guess using it as a sort of lynch would become more viable the longer we wait on deciding.
Also, you can make a case that seems reasonable enough to be justified, but not good enough that it will actually lead to a lynch.
If you get to throw the box, there is a very real possibility that it will actually kill the player you're having a case on, regardless of whether your case would likely lead to a lynch or not.
So if scum do get to throw the box last and it does blow up, that means they'll either have to adjust their votes so the last thrower is on the largest wagon, or he'll have blown up a smaller wagon (with hence less players other than him implicated in the townies death). Plus, if they try to pass it amongst themselves, they'll have to either be voting one of their own at the point they get the box, or adjust their vote accordingly.
Changing votes means they'll need to give a reason for changing their vote, which in turn can be read for intent, especially if the scum that passed the box to another scum later gets lynched.
It seems very difficult to me to anticipate who would get the box at what point, so scum would not have much time to do any adjusting before one of them gets the box.
As for the info, it seems equally likely to me that the mod is trolling us with the box. He definitely is at least to some degree, otherwise we would know what that thing does beforehand. That alone is reason enough for me to not trust any info we have about it, safe for the timer.
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Can Someone Post So I Can Finish The Sixth Votecount
Affinity (1): Serela
capt.h (2) : Action Dan, Dorian G
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
Mr. Bob (1): I have no name
Conqueror (2): BT, Affinity
BT (2): Chaore, Omba
Dorian G. (2): Kitten4u, Conqueror
Dormio (0):
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Chaore: (0):
Serela (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob
Holding the Box: Affinity
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 64 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
Box Timer: 16:20:15
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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So how does this give us better information if it does blow up. How does this give us better information if it doesn't blow up? It seems to me everything you said is basically the same thing you'd get out of wagon analysis, only not as strong.
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For one, people act differently when their actions have larger implications. A vig shot weighs heavier than a vote; it will force the box-holder to consider his read more carefully. Hence the action he eventually takes yields a better read.
For another, all but the last (maybe last few) player that gets the box will basically be throwing a lynch vote quite some time before a vote could actually lead to a lynch. Since no one knows who will be around to pass on the box and who won't. Hence we will basically get votes with real intent to lynch spread over a longer time.
For yet another, a lynch (usually) necessitates consolidating votes from other wagons. People are forced to choose someone other than their top suspect. This is not the case with a vig shot / the box. Although I've already mentioned that last aspect.
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Hm, alright. I disagree, but I understand now.
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@Affinity: that's not BT's case at all though? ???
He thought Conq was just lazily pushing the case in his last post, and I was thinking he had abandoned the case and wasn't really pushing anything or anyone. I... don't see why I would be sympathizing with him here. Our positions were not the same.
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On the box - I think lynches and vigs are both more accurate that lynching someone based on plurality. I'd rather hit scum than gain information on scum. Though admittedly, a dud would be better handled by a lynch where at least we'll get something.
On Dorian
This is just to get the box topic out of the way, everything else will come later when I've actually read the game, not just skimmed it
More will come after I had lunch and more time to read.
>_>
I can see LLD's point.
As mod, I had a lot of trouble reading because I already knew all the scum.
MAFIA IS HARD WHEN ALL THE INTERESTING PEOPLE AREN'T TALKING.
What's my point? IT'S 2 AM. I am going to bed now. When I get back, I want Dan and Dorian being LOUD, because loud people are infinitely easier to figure out. And darn it, Dorian is dropping as many boring lurk scum tells as anyone, but at least he eventually comes back when he promises content.
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@Omba: Affinity is still in charge of the box. Speculating seems pointless.
Also, pre-empting this before it becomes an issue: I'm generally more conservative with my vote.
Need sleep.
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No, "I think my vote is perfectly fine" doesn't cut it when I've just cut it apart from basically every direction.
Conq's vote on you isn't unjustified, it's just awkward. So far all he's been doing is asking questions and sharing suggestions. Which were fine, yes, but notice that his only real involvement in this game was his by the by comment on how his vote is staying on your because *reason*. I thought it's lazy scumhunting, but it may be an attempt to be subtle as well. Which is just as bad, if not worse.
You keep 'tearing apart' my case without noticing my case.
You're also doing that thing when you add things to your case instead of looking elsewhere, and that's the lazy way out. And, no, 'looking elsewhere' does not involve commenting shortly on other wagons, it involves scumhunting more than one player!
Chaore is also pretty guilty of this. It's like you're giving yourself the luxury of doing nothing at all simply because I exist.
And yes, Omba, the bit about adding the explanation to your case after the case seems scummy because you had no reason to not include it originally, and in my opinion you simply thought of the explanation later, making your vote pretty damn weak.
I am admittedly lazy this game and will ~look for scum~ shortly.
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Oh yeah, ##Unvote since I need to think this over.
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Reread some more.
Now I really want Dormio back. His opinions have been interesting thus far. :(
I'm not getting scum vibes from Dorian, although I'm not getting much else. Can I have the quick version of whyheisscum.png?
I'm having similar difficulties from IHNN. Since your opinions are everywhere, can you go over them and why you're currently voting Bob?
##Vote LLD
Out of all the people that may be clinging to their votes right now, she is quite probably the worst and I'm surprised it's not getting much notice. Half of her posts reference a very early accusation of Dan, and aside from joining the Scum!Dorian camp, without explaining why or how does it affect her Dan vote (it apparently doesn't), she has done absolutely nothing else.
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BT, I outline my reasons for voting Bob in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811050.html#msg811050), and my reasons haven't changed since then. Mr. Bob has posted very few times, with very little content per post. It seems like a player silently trying to get through D1, having just enough opinion to be above notice, and posting about once per thread page to maintain the illusion of being active.
Checking the time, the box will trigger at 4. Thankfully I don't have anything planned for the hour on either end of it. I want as many people here as possible at the start of what many seem to think will be "Day 1-2" to be able to discuss what happens, whatever happens.
LLD had a very strong first post, and I'll agree she hasn't added anything new since then. I'd be more accepting of it if she'd link back to said post, like I did here because it's easier than digging through a growing thread.
Honestly BT, I understand and agree with basically everything you've said up to now, aside from voting me ED1 while I was having dinner.
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The post in question (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg810887.html#msg810887). It's not a bad post, but she's done nothing since.
Who would you say is scum, if not Bob?
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@Omba: No content is better than bad content, and with Dan's being effectively absent for more than 24 hours now if I'm not mistaken, I guess I'll prefer Dan's lynch at the moment to Serela's. There's also the issue where Dorian seems to be defending Dan indirectly by voting capt.h, and though I don't think it's that bad on its own, Dan's flip might shed some light on it.
I feel a miasma of laziness drawing down upon town, and that most of the energy present is still focused on the box, which I have already said that I would keep until near the deadline.
Not sure about the Dorian case in general, it's interesting how he gets charged for 'mudslinging' and stuff in his interesting case against capt.h when all Conq has to do is to change his vote onto some politically correct wagon with terse, incomplete reasoning. I don't believe the proponents of that case has addressed the hypocrisy aspect of Dorian's case on capt.h's vote for Dan, which has an element of truth to it. While I suppose that Dorian's ignorance of everyone else other than his target is irksome for the usual reasons, I don't think he's scum.
Reading capt.h as prompted by Dorian, there seems to be a few blind spots in his distinction between the loud and quiet. It's quite baffling why he singles out Chaore and Bob for not being centre stage and not Conq, LLD, and other related people who are arguably as quiet, if not quieter, at the moment. Would like an explanation for his selectiveness.
As I said above, Conq looks worse for that vote jump. His private 'town reads', one of which (on BT) came out of nowhere in his justification as to why Dorian over BT, and his myriad questions on others which I don't see him using the answers to, just adds to that murkiness around his thought processes in general, and that's pretty scummy.
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Dorian's suspicious because he's kinda lurky and I feel like he's trying to avoid drawing attention to himself.
On more traditional tells, he promised more content after a reread, but the content basically concluded "I suspect I might be voting for a townie". He hasn't shown what he thinks about anyone other than me in his last 2 posts either, and the primary driver for his vote as he explicitly states is that he thinks he needs a vote on someone before he sorts things out, which he didn't get around to doing.
Course, Dorian's behavior doesn't change Dan's Uber lurking >:( wothy behavior one iota. I kinda get the impression that Dan isn't posting because he knows if he doesn't post, there's a very good chance enough votes will move to a wagon that isn't him that he won't die in 7 hours. Hence scum Dan being scummy.
- cut by Affinity -
LLD is loud. She always is at the center of attention. Even her quiet posts demand attention, because they make blind unsupported assumptions like "Dorian is probably scum".
I need to reread Conq though. There's a lot of quiet people. But Chaore and Bob were easy to single out at the beginning when I thought talking about the box was town, and discouraging box talk was scummy, because they were completely outside the discussion.
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@BT
ActionDan: hasn't done very much, not very scummy but definitely not reading town.
LLD: had 1 good post as you said, nothing else really since.
Lurking isn't inherently scummy, active lurking does seem scummy to me.
I'm reading Affinity as town, BT as town, Kitten4u as town and Omba as town. Everyone not previously mentioned is null at the moment.
I'm not sure what to think of Dan's disappearance.
For reference: Dan's last post: (21 hours ago) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811192.html#msg811192)
-cut by capt. h-
Right, Dorian is doing the same stuff that Dan is doing, albeit better because he didn't register for me at all.
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It was impossible to post yesterday. :/ Parents etc. I was able to keep tabs on the game every so often though but without a through re-read I only garnered a vague sense of how this game is panning out.
Capt.h, Serela, and Rawr are all town.
I was worried about Conq for a while but he gave his reads and hes using bro-meta in my favor so Conq is probably town.
BT and Dorian and Omba and IHNN don't sound scummy to me but I haven't read them deeply yet.
Affinity is more meh I have to read him deeper. on one hand I'm happy he's gunning for me but his complaint against serela while I believe was originally a misunderstanding is something he's sticking too.
K4U sounds logical but pings my gut. Chaore just pings my gut.
Bob. Questions didn't seem to go anywhere but I'm getting any scum vibes.
LLD and Dormio are the scummiest to me.
You're right! I did misinterpret what Dan meant by his box vote.
Well, that just further reinforces my current belief that Serela is just weird and that Dan should die.
Rather than Dan giving a single town read and nothing else, he's just given us a single scum read with no reasoning and what appears to be no intention to follow up so far.
He expands on his town reads but fails to give any reasoning so as to why Affinity should die. I also find his inability to place a proper vote weird.
Dormio is mischaracterizing the weight of my vote on affinity. Obviously someone who hasn't posted yet is null so leapfrogging to "fails to give reasoning as to why aAffinity should die" means Dormio isn't thinking about the rational I would have to Affinity which to me reads that Dormio's reason for voting me was contrived and ignored the warning signs townies get when voting a person 'Why did this guy do this action?'
Considering Affinity to be town is fine and all for Dan, but he's one of the people who have made absolutely no effort towards finding scum so far. He's, like, totally content to just sit back and blabber on about the box whilst contributing absolutely nothing of value to the town.
This ignores that I did state two town reads of mine. and really is talking about the box 'contributing nothing of value?'
##Vote Dormio
I gotta go to class in 10 min, I'll go over LLD in a few hours.
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idk if this affects your case or not but didnt dormio claim miller?
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while I -really- don't want to just have become an obvtown and then skip out on the game like meiya did last game, I feel really out of it right now x_x I keep sneezing/out coughing up globs of yellow goo and I'm just bleh.
I'll try to post something more substantial later today but I'm just going back to bed right now (and yes I mean as in later april 2nd, not later d1)
while I'm here though, I think I may have been overreacting about BT, I think people should stop devoting all their attention on what to do with the box given that Affinity has made it clear he is not planning on doing anything but what he wants to with it, I think I might be seeing something off about Omba but it might just be me being sick, my opinion on scum right now is definitely still Affinity >> Dan, aaaa sleepy where is pillow
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Chaore is doing that thing where he kind of just vanishes. I thought his posts were decent enough up until this one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811429.html#msg811429).
Looking back, he's not said much about current issues for a while now, excepting a little about the box, a short jab at capt. h and of course his case on BT.
Don't like it. As in beginning to think it looks scummy.
@Omba: Affinity is still in charge of the box. Speculating seems pointless.
Also, pre-empting this before it becomes an issue: I'm generally more conservative with my vote.
Answering to questions not so much, plus it's not like we couldn't force Affinity to use the box as we see fit under threat of getting lynched; though I think doing so would be a bad idea. For that matter, why specifically address me when I hadn't said anything about what to do with the box for a long time until K4u brought it up again?
Furthermore, you're not being conservative with your vote, you're not doing anything with it at all. Or anything, really. I still have no idea who you think is scum, might be scum, or at least could perhaps maybe be scum, except for maybe perhaps Dan, judging by this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811187.html#msg811187) of yours. Which is really really bad. It's quite possible that there will be a lynch in approximately 6 1/2 hours and I have no idea whom you want lynched and who's lynch you're opposed to, if any. You're not doing anything to help town and you're not revealing anything about yourself, either.
And yes, Omba, the bit about adding the explanation to your case after the case seems scummy because you had no reason to not include it originally, and in my opinion you simply thought of the explanation later, making your vote pretty damn weak.
Err... Actually I did have a reason, in that I thought it was obvious that bad&forced case + apparent want to vote anyone = constructed case. And I fail to see how I could have "thought of" any substantially different explanation to my original accusation, therefore the original case and it's later explanation are inherently linked together.
Your LLD case is funny in that you're basically voting LLD for the way she usually plays.
Dan is back aaannndd... appears to probably be town. Want to see his LLD case, but so far he reads like townDan.
--cut by Serela
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The Seventh Votecount May Not Include Minoriko
Affinity (1): Serela
capt.h (1) : Dorian G
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
Mr. Bob (1): I have no name
Conqueror (1): Affinity
BT (2): Chaore, Omba
Dorian G. (2): Kitten4u, Conqueror
Lady Lambdadelta (1): BT
Dormio (1): Action Dan
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Chaore: (0):
Serela (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob
Holding the Box: Affinity
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 51 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
Box Timer: 3:29:48
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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Oh well, this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811291.html#msg811291) convinced me that Capt. hs vote isn't as inconsequential as I thought, so there goes my only lead so far.
## Unvote
The only other thing that really stood out to me so far was Affinitys case on Serela, Serela is so town I don't even know and using a contradiction against him that is only a contradiction for you is beyond awful. But that's get overshadowed by his decision to keep the box. Honestly if he haven't made this decision then we would still sit in box speculations up to our necks and it's therefore the most pro town move I have seen all game.
Now here I am, a fool for sure! No wiser than I was before!
I spare you the rest of my null reads and or fence siting, it would be pointless anyway. But it should give you an idea why I do what I'm about to do, which is to share the only save information I have so far ITT my role. This serve two purposes, first it will provoked others to do staff that I can actually read and the second purpose will be obvious as soon as you know my role.
So here we go:
I'm Russell Hantz, Town Anti-Cult Vigilante.
I have a soot every night but it only kills if my target is cult. It doesn't work if my target is town or scum and I can't kill other ITPs.
And about the flavor, it seems that I'm a rather mean guy from some reality television game show know as ?Survivor ?. I'ven't seen it, and I have better things to do than to google it as Sadoweh suggested, so I'm not sure but it sounds more like I'm the ITP here.^^;
I guess you can see the second purpose now, which is to enjoy this delicious wine inform you about the potential existence of a third party.
Thank you for you attention, I'll catch up after lunch.
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wut
well I don't see any reason to disbelieve this claim
Honestly if he haven't made this decision then we would still sit in box speculations up to our necks and it's therefore the most pro town move I have seen all game.
nope.avi
It would make perfect sense for scum to do this instead of, say, passing it to a town (They could pass to their scumbuddies but then their buddy would have to do basically the same thing anyway.). I mean, it's not an actual reason to call Affinity as scum, but it's -definitely- not something that makes him townier. That's silly.
Besides we're still sitting in box speculation up to our necks :V
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I guess you can see the second purpose now, which is to enjoy this delicious wine inform you about the potential existence of a third party.
Sorry, that's how it was supposed to look like. Also ...
It would make perfect sense for scum to do this instead of, say, passing it to a town (They could pass to their scumbuddies but then their buddy would have to do basically the same thing anyway.). I mean, it's not an actual reason to call Affinity as scum, but it's -definitely- not something that makes him townier. That's silly.
Besides we're still sitting in box speculation up to our necks :V
I know that this point is founded on the assumption that he keeps it to stop the speculation and therefore kind of WIFOMish but it's still what I think about it. I'm also quite sure scum would prefer the ?hot potato? method and I think that I already said why. However, the more important point will be what he's going to do with it anyway.
Catch up now.
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Super Lazy Timer Update
Box Timer: 1:52:48
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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I don't think scum would choose the Hot Potato method if they already had the box in their possession, because it's basically
A.Giving away your vig power
B.Putting it in the hands of a townie who could actually hit scum
Basically, I think Affinity holding the box is a null-tell. There are completely valid reasons for both alignments to do it.
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Alright, Dan's latest post is... Not Good.
First off, are you using a template?
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10806.msg715454.html#msg715454
Second off, are you saying that Dormio is scummy because when he voted you for voting someone who hadn't posted, he should have thought about why you were voting someone who hadn't posted?
ALSO, WHERE IS EVERYBODY.
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Waiting for minoriko to pop out of the box
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I'm here. I got literally no sleep last night, so I apologize if my words are awkward.
I mulled over what happened last night and decided that Omba is more town than not now. Not willing to lynch anymore. Everything else requires another read and a bit more waffling (reread count: 10 *sob*). My opinions on current wagons are about the same really. My town read on BT is stronger than my read on Dan, but holy shit this wagon spread is awful. I was hoping people would actually treat this as though it were a 48 hour D1. :/
I need a minute to mull over Dorian's claim. If you're still here Dorian, can you paraphrase the part that says why your character is this role?
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Extra Lazy Timer Update
Box Timer: 0:14:30
Box Timer Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=4&day=2&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=00&p0=1177)
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To be clear, I'm voting Dan because I don't like his Dormio case, because his last post is structurally a carbon copy of This Post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10806.msg715454.html#msg715454) from when he was scum (so much so that I swear he has to be using a template), and because I am not very impressed with how we're still missing that LLD case he promised 10 minutes to KABLOOEY.
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Seeing affinity offline makes me sad
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Who do you think the guest is?
HI AFFINITY!
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Actually, I really hope that's Affinity. :ohdear:
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:munch:
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I, for one, would be absolutely ecstatic at Affinity being afk and getting blown up. <3
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To be fair, i did say "give me the box"
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Aaaand times been up for about 25 seconds! Hooray.
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I HAVE FAITH, AFFINITY WILL DELIVER!
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Dinner is served! WARNING A MOD SCENE IS APPROACHING QUICKLY
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Er was the timer extended?
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The timer starts going up once it hits zero.
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Ok
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I need a minute to mull over Dorian's claim. If you're still here Dorian, can you paraphrase the part that says why your character is this role?
Well it seems that I (Russell Hantz) like cane other who are weaker then I'm and I'm good at bringing people to think that I where on their side, I hope that answers your question. Like I said the flavor made me think that I were the ITP the first time I read it if it weren't for the green Town Anti-Cult Vigilante role name.
Oh well, seems I missed som stuff.
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Mind-dump:
Noticed LLD's solid first post against Dan, there was little elucidation as Wagon Dan took off, questioned it, got dismissed.
Also, Affinity asked if I preferred to vote Serela or Dan, forgot to answer that last post, which at that time would have been Dan as he had been gone (possibly lurkering to let heat die down). Not so sure now.
Dorian is probably doing as much fence-sitting as I am. But I am feeling okay about K4 and Affinity.
I can see where both sides are coming from with BT > Conq, Chaore > BT. More research!
Capt needs to be re-read. Wishing for some more Rawr and Dormio.
Omba and NoName need analyzing; have not gone in depth.
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That guest is probably me. I have time to devote.
@Capt.h, I never have used templates although it's amusing to see the similarities between that post and my last. Of course in those reads I thought Bard was traitor scum at the time. Can you reiterate exactly why you don't like me instead of placing emphasis on style and timing.
LLD is simply targetting me with an early case and willingly ignoring others. That's pretty much the case. She never expanded on her vote which was placed ater I "voted" affinity so something must have come over her to send her over the edge and be comfortable enough to vote me.
And Yes, Dormio is not thinking critically and giving out bs reasons to vote.
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Dorian's claim makes me jealous, but it sounds very true. (The only way it's fake is if Conq/LLD are scumbuddies with Dorian and are stealing the idea from Choose Your Side mafia). we'll know if it's fake if no dead cultists appear as the days progress. Mind you, the cultists could be benign. However it's best to ignore Dorian... forever :D. Don't bomb him, don't lynch him, don't vig him. he might as well be playing a seperate game.
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So you seem to make no difference between your two scum reads. Which means your vote could have gone either way. Instead of placing two votes on LLD, you go on to be the lone vote on Dormio. Which is avoiding attention. Which is scummy.
Omba, you act as if I ever had the pleasure of playing with LLD. I don't know her meta, therefore I could never have taken advantage of it in a scummy way. (or whatever else you're trying to imply with that)
Bob, who is the scummiest at the moment? Doesn't have to the a vote.
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*Doesn't have to be a vote.
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So you seem to make no difference between your two scum reads. Which means your vote could have gone either way. Instead of placing two votes on LLD, you go on to be the lone vote on Dormio. Which is avoiding attention. Which is scummy.
Omba, you act as if I ever had the pleasure of playing with LLD. I don't know her meta, therefore I could never have taken advantage of it in a scummy way. (or whatever else you're trying to imply with that)
Bob, who is the scummiest at the moment? Doesn't have to the a vote.
I feel stronger about Dormio, hence the vote.
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Even with the miller claim?
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WHY THE HECK DID YOU WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE BOMB WENT OFF TO POST THAT LLD READ YOU PROMISED. (At Dan)
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WITH THE PROMISE OF BEING UNITED WITH HIS WAIFU AFFINITY'S DETERMINATION WAS CLEAR.
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9821/affinitysbox.jpg)
Box Timer: 0:00:00
THE COUNTER HIT ZERO. AFFINITY WAS REWARDED FOR HIS DETERMINATION WITH DELICIOUS CAKE. SADLY THE CAKE DID NOT CONTAIN MINORIKO. THERE WAS HOWEVER, A NOTE ON THE BOTTOM!
##Fakevig is an awesome command. What Day 1 is complete without some idiot pretending to kill someone? Today it seems the idiot is Shadoweh! Usa~
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/9265/invisiblebomb.jpg)
THE DAY CONTINUES WITHOUT ANY VISIBLE EFFECTS.
The Eighth Votecount Is Now Accepting Hatemail
Affinity (1): Serela
capt.h (0) :
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
Mr. Bob (1): I have no name
Conqueror (1): Affinity
BT (2): Chaore, Omba
Dorian G. (2): Kitten4u, Conqueror
Lady Lambdadelta (1): BT
Dormio (1): Action Dan
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Chaore: (0):
Serela (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dorian G.
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 47 hours remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
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Going by gut and not fact checking: Omba or LLD
Something about their playstyles (going by meta, dismissive, etc.) raises my hackles.
Cut by cake.
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(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/Lilium1/untitled.jpg)
Real stuff coming once I can word and finish filling out this paperwork.
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Even with the miller claim?
Miller claim was the only thing that made me pause for 2 sec.
cut. First I didn't realize the bomb already went off as I was typing (and I was typing fast [as I can type anyway]) Second, it's not the end-all be-all. No need for caps.
Cut by EXPLOSIONS!
Unless Affinity had a way of figuring in advance that the bomb was a dud, he's prolly town
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RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE'
Also if Affinity didn't know he wasn't going to be around for the bomb deadline, then, yeah.
I mean I doubt he would have held it as town either.
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More like he was gonna pass it but forgot about it and fell asleep.
(Yes. He is now eating cake while sleeping. I'm slightly jealous.)
random rageserela cut
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Alright, how long did it take you to type your LLD post?
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I started to type a reply around 30 min or so ago. Then I isoed LLD. Then I wrote the post.
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You mean, you didn't even START writing your LLD read until 20 minutes before we bombed someone (most likely yourself)? :wat:
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(I'm assuming by "ago", you means 30 minutes prior to posting your LLD read)
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You mean, you didn't even START writing your LLD read until 20 minutes before we bombed someone (most likely yourself)? :wat:
Yes?
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Okay, first, Dan's reaction to Dorian's claim is the worst thing and I'm willing to lynch him for it. Lack of evidence of cult is not evidence of lies.
Anyway, the reason I'm very ??? about Dorian's claim is because my role suggests there's a serial killer and/or survivor, and if all these things are in the game then I fear for town. Note: I am not counterclaiming here. Our roles are sufficiently different, I'm just not sure what to make of this.
Disappointed that no one else is really commenting on his claim. I mean, it came out of nowhere, so I expected some people to have something to say. :S
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I'll be busy for ~40 min. I suggest you stop being .... how you are.
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Alrighty. I think Dan's scum.
MOVING ON.
To answer K4u, I kinda suspect that the mod is messing with us. Like with the box. Anyway, Dorian's claim is sufficiently creative enough that I don't think he made it up, and it seems like a typical town claim (timing wise) due to the Dorian v. Dan atmosphere. Honestly, I would find not claiming more suspicious. Course, if by out of "nowhere" you mean news of a cult was a complete surprise, then yeah, I'm not sure I believe it TBH.
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I can't think straight. I'm going to go nap and come back to things. I suppose I'll sum up my initial thoughts with what my gut is currently telling me.
##Unvote
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@Box: box ees dud, not beeg surprise. This is kind of exactly why I said the box was Wifom, and am kind of annoyed we spent time messing around with Box Shenanigans- The box is true wifom, It's not a mechanic town has information on that is tied to roles, it's just a HONKING box that could do anything.
Still not liking BT. His recent posts seem like the same lazy pretending and making up a stance to seem townie that his original conq vote had. It doesn't help LLD is an easy target in general in my opinion. Hes more voting because she's done nothing else and whoa hey that looks bad right? He's promising he's really trying to find scum but he keeps kinda using lazy bad plays and easy targets for his cases, I can't really buy that he's trying to find scum at -all-. Fine with my vote on him still.
Dorian's claim is so LOVING weird and oddly Dorian as LOVELY I have no reason but to believe it. I haven't really had any problems with him anyway, even if his logic is somewhat eclectic and hard to follow. Combined with K4U though I'm just starting to believe that his role is just another box though- There's probably a chance there is no cult entirely and Shadoweh is FROLLICING with us.
Something about the Dan wagon feels kind of wrong to me. And that recent sassy comeback frankly feels like a townie as BOING move to me. I can totally see exactly what's up with the case on him because dear god his two actual scum reads are pretty much 'they attacked me for bad reason' and last I checked he wasn't UK, but something about the wagon (Frankly mostly Capt.H and his recent flipout on Dan for posting after the box exploded) just feels so utterly wrong to me. I'm also not sure why Capt. H seems to be trying to pull up old games for evidence this game, between using IMP (Completely incorrectly) and Dan's post being 'templated'. Can you tell me what's up with that, Capt. H?
@Omba: 'current discussion' seemed to be more box shenanigans and rabbits tend to hate wifom.
368. Also, while I'm endlessly glad this box mess is over, I'm also kind of tied down by a lot of work at the moment, so posts will be infrequent for at least this week. Sorry.
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Right. Dorian needs to die for claiming with 2 votes on him. He really really does. The kind of pressure I was putting on him by calling him scum was just to see how he reacted, because his posts were being bad and I couldn't really get much of a read off them besides a slight scum lean for being so content-less.
When Dorian's response to pressure is to claim, I want him dead.
That being said, Dorian can live another day to try and shoot at some imaginary cult. Cults are inherently worse than any other anti-town unit.
So, back to Dan!
First off, BT, why do I need to elaborate further on my Dan case? He's done all of nothing since I posted it. He literally has added no content from the time I made my vote to the time when you posted your vote. This appears to be more misguided than scummy however, I'll let it go.
However, your misguided actions have done well in netting me some nice reads. Dan is pretty much conf. scum for deciding that I was a scum read mere minutes after BT votes me. He couldn't express this read earlier because....? There's no good answer to that question. Dan in pretty scum.
Also, that Dormio vote is really off base considering he has BARELY TALKED ABOUT DORMIO EITHER. I honestly don't know where Dan is getting his reads from, except that I do.
Dan is scum.
Also scummy: IHHN, for blatently cheerleading the misguided pressure that is on me, suspiciously followed by Dan doing basically the same thing. I don't like it, it's much to passive. Passive is a very scummy trait.
Good Ol' Fashion Townies: Capt.H, for making a lick of sense.
Affinity for forgetting to pass the box (for now, unless something else comes to light)
K4U because I'm getting a vibe.
Serela because her posting has been town oriented from my PoV.
Final Note: Mr.Bob needs to die eventually. Wouldn't mind seeing him with a bullet between the eyes tonight. Dorian?
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Short List:
People who need Rope:
Dan
Dorian
IHHN
People who need a bullet between the eyes:
Bob
Omba
Dr.Rawr
Chaore
(For those of you who don't know, Rope is for lynching, Bullets are for Vigs. It's a very subtle difference in reads, but it's a difference)
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##Unvote
Dan, the fluidity of your case and conviction of your words have convinced me to turn towards the light.
(http://www.disneydreaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Perry-The-Platypus.jpg)
##Vote ActionDan
Yes, Dan. I would consider you giving two town reads and talking only about the box to be doing nothing. (Protip, town reads mean jack SQUID, scumskies.)
Following this up with the intent to have someone that hasn't posted yet die is scummy, scumskies.
Your refusal to explain why Affinity should die is scummy, scumskies.
Your OMGUS on LLD and I is scummy, scumskies.
Seriously, #237, the shit about his vote on Affinity. You stated that you wanted Affinity to die. You couldn't possibly be so inundated so as to call me scummy for your actions, are you, scumskies? ... Oh wait.
No, seriously, the #237 flailing is so bad I don't even.
Dormio is mischaracterizing the weight of my vote on affinity. Obviously someone who hasn't posted yet is null so leapfrogging to "fails to give reasoning as to why aAffinity should die" means Dormio isn't thinking about the rational I would have to Affinity which to me reads that Dormio's reason for voting me was contrived and ignored the warning signs townies get when voting a person 'Why did this guy do this action?'
[/quote]I need to go over this again because of how bad it is.
Did you, or did you not, express willingness to kill Affinity?
Did you, or did you not, give any reason for your wish to kill Affinity?
Did you, or did you not, provide any other people that you were even suspicious of?
And yet, you have the gall to claim that my reason for voting is contrived? wtf?
LLD and Dormio are the scummiest to me.
I gotta go to class in 10 min, I'll go over LLD in a few hours.
mfw
Affinity is more meh I have to read him deeper. on one hand I'm happy he's gunning for me but his complaint against serela while I believe was originally a misunderstanding is something he's sticking too.
What happened to wanting him dead? Nice fencesitting there, scumskies.
I haven't read through the topic thoroughly yet, because I still need to finish my paper but I feel that Dorian's claim came completely out of the blue and, whilst it is believable, the timing of it was weird. Will keep this in mind as I reread Dorian later.
Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck
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Some stuff after a quick skim.
Role != alignment. I think I believe the claim because trolololol bastard mod but FFS we just finished a game where the scum vig shot the (town) cult recruiter. Dorian, you've yet to say anything else about the actual players in the game. Care to share?
When Affinity comes back I want to know why he didn't pass the box earlier despite the box deadline being in the middle of the night for him.
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Dan, could you explain why LLD isn't just tunnely town? I'm know you're familiar with her playstyle.
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Also scummy: IHHN, for blatently cheerleading the misguided pressure that is on me, suspiciously followed by Dan doing basically the same thing. I don't like it, it's much to passive. Passive is a very scummy trait.
There's a difference between 'passive' and 'seeing good points made by other people and agreeing with them'. BT gave an argument as to why you were scum, I had used the same argument to show my suspicion of several other players, I agreed with it and noted that I had missed you as lurky because of your first post.
Called the box as being a dud, although I want the cake.
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There's a difference between 'passive' and 'seeing good points made by other people and agreeing with them'. BT gave an argument as to why you were scum, I had used the same argument to show my suspicion of several other players, I agreed with it and noted that I had missed you as lurky because of your first post.
Called the box as being a dud, although I want the cake.
I agree there is a difference.
You fall on the "passive scummy" side.
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You fall on the "passive scummy" side.
No, you fall on the "passive scummy" side.
I'm not even being passive this game, I've had a couple meh posts but I'm actively scumhunting (and with 15 players it's hard remembering what everyone's been doing), while you have had 2 good posts, content-wise, while the rest have been...alluding to those and saying you can't help people who don't get it.
Dan is pretty much conf. scum for deciding that I was a scum read mere minutes after BT votes me. He couldn't express this read earlier because....? There's no good answer to that question.
I didn't express a scumread on you prior to BT's post/vote either, but the reasoning is the reasoning for most of my current scumreads.
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I'm Not A Bastard I'm Just Big Boned Ninth Votecount
Affinity (1): Serela
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
Mr. Bob (1): I have no name
Conqueror (1): Affinity
BT (2): Chaore, Omba
Dorian G. (1): Conqueror
Lady Lambdadelta (1): BT
Dormio (1): Action Dan
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Chaore: (0):
Serela (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dorian G., Kitten4u
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 44 hours remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
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No, you fall on the "passive scummy" side.
I'm not even being passive this game, I've had a couple meh posts but I'm actively scumhunting (and with 15 players it's hard remembering what everyone's been doing), while you have had 2 good posts, content-wise, while the rest have been...alluding to those and saying you can't help people who don't get it.I didn't express a scumread on you prior to BT's post/vote either, but the reasoning is the reasoning for most of my current scumreads.
Right, I'm being passive with a list of definite reads, and leading wagons on players I want dead.
You're either really FRUITYHEAD or scum. My bet is on the second one.
I mean, you're basing all your scum reads off "lurking"? Seriously?
And then you call ME a passive player? You're ridiculous.
You can hang from the highest tree on the tallest hill any day now. You're next after Dan. You're worse than DORIAN.
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This is the exact thing that happened to me in Midnight Crew Mafia.
"really NEATO or scum"
Neither. Just derpin' my way through my second ever D1.
"all reads off lurking"
There's not much to go off right now, the only non-lurk-scumread I have is Mr. Bob, every other scumread is shaky at best.
"call ME a passive player"
Well this exchange has changed that (you're being active in your posting now), but it seems like you're trying to bus the newbie. just like the scumteam did in MC Mafia. Which unfortunately worked D4 >.>
"You're next after Dan. You're worse than DORIAN."
I don't see Dorian as being scummy. As I said, Dan is shaky but still scummy.
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This is the exact thing that happened to me in Midnight Crew Mafia.
"really NEATO or scum"
Neither. Just derpin' my way through my second ever D1.
"all reads off lurking"
There's not much to go off right now, the only non-lurk-scumread I have is Mr. Bob, every other scumread is shaky at best.
"call ME a passive player"
Well this exchange has changed that (you're being active in your posting now), but it seems like you're trying to bus the newbie. just like the scumteam did in MC Mafia. Which unfortunately worked D4 >.>
"You're next after Dan. You're worse than DORIAN."
I don't see Dorian as being scummy. As I said, Dan is shaky but still scummy.
There is plenty to go off of right now. Your resistance to actually scumhunt is noted.
Further, your passive fence-sitting read on Dan is noted.
Further, your meta argument is noted, considering I wasn't in that game and the meta is not applicable. (Not that meta is ever a good argument, but I digress).
Finally, your appeal that this is only your second Day 1 and you're "derpin' your way through it" is both ridiculous and scummy.
You can hang after Dan does.
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Your resistance to actually scumhunt is noted. Then explain Mr. Bob.
Further, your passive fence-sitting read on Dan is noted. I already explained this.
Further, your meta argument is noted, considering I wasn't in that game and the meta is not applicable. (Not that meta is ever a good argument, but I digress). It's not meant to be a meta argument, it's me noting a trend.
Finally, your appeal that this is only your second Day 1 and you're "derpin' your way through it" is both ridiculous and scummy. Ridiculous? maybe. Scummy? maybe to you. True? You bet. Although I'm definitely derping less since I know what I'm doing somewhat.
You can hang after Dan does. Nah that doesn't sound too fun. I think I'd rather climb the tree you want to hang me on.
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I explained Mr.Bob. He needs a bullet between his eyes. That's all that needs to be said.
No, you didn't explain your fence-sitting. Is Dan scum or is he town? None of this "OH WELL MAYBE HE MIGHT POSSIBLY 50% CHANCE" stuff. Definite read. Scum or not scum. Right now. One sentence, one chance.
Don't try and appeal to some kind of weakness to escape this hole you've dug for yourself. You're clearly not incompetent. I've seen incompetent. You're trying to avoid taking responsibility for your scummy actions by hiding behind your "newbie" status. Sorry, I won't bite.
You can climb the tree if you like, but sooner or later you'll be swinging from it. And with posts as scummy as yours, I'd be willing to bet sooner.
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I explained Mr.Bob. He needs a bullet between his eyes. That's all that needs to be said.
No, you didn't explain your fence-sitting. Is Dan scum or is he town? None of this "OH WELL MAYBE HE MIGHT POSSIBLY 50% CHANCE" stuff. Definite read. Scum or not scum. Right now. One sentence, one chance.
You mention my resistance to scumhunt and then conveniently ignore that I currently have my vote on Mr. Bob, and was the first to give him attention/call him scum.
Dan is scum.
That said, I'm not fully sold on Dan being scum, but it's certainly more likely than the alternatives.
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You mention my resistance to scumhunt and then conveniently ignore that I currently have my vote on Mr. Bob, and was the first to give him attention/call him scum.
Dan is scum.
That said, I'm not fully sold on Dan being scum, but it's certainly more likely than the alternatives.
I'm going to point out again that voting for someone because they lurk is not equivilent to voting someone because they are scum.
Also, what is with those last two lines? You profess Dan is scum. Great! You have a scum read that isn't Lurk based! ... so why aren't you voting it?
Then you contradict your scum read with more wishy washy ZOOSMELL.
Either move your vote onto Dan and confirm that you think he's scum.
Or give me a VERY VERY clear cut reason why Dr. Bob is SCUMMIER than ActionDan.
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Scum or not scum. Right now.
You profess Dan is scum. Great! You have a scum read that isn't Lurk based! ... so why aren't you voting it?
because my vote is on Mr. Bob.
Or give me a VERY VERY clear cut reason why Dr. Bob is SCUMMIER than ActionDan.
Dr. Bob isn't scummy insofar as he isnt't playing.
Mr. Bob is scummier than ActionDan because Dan didn't scream "obvscum" to me like Mr. Bob did. As far as I can tell the reason for this is Mr. Bob seems to be trying to coast his way through D1.
The way I see it, a lurker will be a hindrance endgame, someone who's not productive towards town won't be, and someone who's scummy, lurking and not productive towards town would be an ideal lynch-we cut a player who'd be a hindrance in the endgame OR we catch scum.
wishy washy ZOOSMELL.
Either move your vote onto Dan and confirm that you think he's scum.
1: this would be wishy-washy ZOOSMELL, as you put it.
2: I don't like being told what to do.
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I am laughing right now. :v
I call bastard mod because....
1) Minoriko isn't inside the box, and
2) the votecount (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811396.html#msg811396) eight posts above my post was misleading. I genuinely thought I had sixteen (or more than eight) hours left to pass it. There clearly should have been three votecounts per page.
Will come back after breakfast. Seriously.
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@IHNN: Why do you think Dan is scummy?
Also, would you consider Mr. Bob the only person lurking through the day? I'm getting from your posts that you want to lynch him because you think he's coasting lurker scum. What sets him apart from other people?
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2) the votecount (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811396.html#msg811396) eight posts above my post was misleading. I genuinely thought I had sixteen (or more than eight) hours left to pass it.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/33u3ng6.gif)
Welp. Also, people giving Affinity townreads for forgetting to pass the box don't make sense. He's not more likely to forget to pass the box as either alignment, really. ;)
I'll have more to say after I finish some work.
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Why do you think Dan is scummy?
Also, would you consider Mr. Bob the only person lurking through the day? I'm getting from your posts that you want to lynch him because you think he's coasting lurker scum. What sets him apart from other people?
Dan is scummy because he is lurking through D1 while trying to seem active and generally not doing very much.
No, Mr. Bob is not the only one lurking through the day-Dan, Dorian, Chaore, Serela and rawr after the "give me the box" died down. I'd add Dormio to the list but he appears to have IRL reasons that he mentioned for this, so it wouldn't be fair to say he's lurking through the day. However, Mr. Bob is the only one of these players who I don't think has given much input on the game, he asks a few questions then leaves. Rawr is also guilty of this to an extent, but his "GIVE ME THE BOX" generated discussion and he was here ED1.
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You Want More Tenth Votecount Do You?
Affinity (1): Serela
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
Mr. Bob (1): I have no name
Conqueror (1): Affinity
BT (2): Chaore, Omba
Dorian G. (1): Conqueror
Lady Lambdadelta (1): BT
Dormio (1): Action Dan
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Chaore: (0):
Serela (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dorian G., Kitten4u
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 41 hours remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
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Fair enough. I still don't think Dan is as scummy as people are making him out to be, but I'm waiting on him to elaborate.
Bob, you still haven't placed down a vote. Without a vote it's nigh impossible to tell who your scumspects are, doubly so because you're making many solid stances. Please vote someone.
Not sure about the Dorian case in general, it's interesting how he gets charged for 'mudslinging' and stuff in his interesting case against capt.h when all Conq has to do is to change his vote onto some politically correct wagon with terse, incomplete reasoning. I don't believe the proponents of that case has addressed the hypocrisy aspect of Dorian's case on capt.h's vote for Dan, which has an element of truth to it. While I suppose that Dorian's ignorance of everyone else other than his target is irksome for the usual reasons, I don't think he's scum.
>_>
What the blazes is a politically correct wagon?
More pertinently, which element of truth in Dorian's capt. h case are you talking about? I'll admit my eyes glazed over the case because I couldn't make heads or tails or it.
And even if you do believe that, Dorian has dropped that case and left us with...absolutely nothing (except the claim!). This after repeated promises of future content.
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Without a vote it's nigh impossible to tell who your scumspects are, doubly so because you're not making many solid stances. Please vote someone.
EBWOP
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I'm also not sure why Capt. H seems to be trying to pull up old games for evidence this game, between using IMP (Completely incorrectly) and Dan's post being 'templated'. Can you tell me what's up with that, Capt. H?
UNYAAAAA
My computer ate my original response to this, SO, starting over.
(ALSO, What's IMP?)
ANYWAY, the reason I brought that game into discussion, and specifically that post, is because I've been judging whether Dan was scum by comparing him to scum Dan. And I noticed that Dan's 237 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811527.html#msg811527) is very, very similar structurally to that other post of Dan's I was linking to, where he began with his reads, called a coupla people scum, made a case on one and then didn't finish his cases in time for the lynch. I thought it might be part of a strategy scum Dan uses, a "template" for when he's in trouble.
But even without meta arguments, I'm not fond of his case on Dormio, in which he accuses Dormio of voting Dan's own bad play instead of scum play. And I think his LLD case amounts to LLD doesn't explain herself.
Yeah, not fond of the timing of that LLD case either. He waits until 10 minutes after the Box to post, and he didn't even start the post until 20 minutes before the box goes off. We wouldn't have had any time to judge him town or scum based on his LLD case even if he had posted only 5 minutes after starting the case. Last I checked, he said he had 40 minutes of work, and that was 7 hours ago, so not too thrilled with the followthrough either.
POINT BEING, Dan's doing lots and lots of things that make me think he's scum.
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I seriously doubt anyone uses a template for posting in mafia. I may be a bit biased on the "timing" issue seeing as I know Dan's class schedule, so I think that part of the argument is bollocks, but in any case I'm waiting on Dan to answer my question on his case!
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Actually, Kiro taught me one. I used to use it somewhat religiously, when I wasn't forgetting parts of it.
First sentence - NAME! Gotta introduce the person first.
Second sentence - SOMETHING, WEIRD THEY DID
Third Sentence - Possible reason for the weird thing, and maybe prod them on it
Forth Sentence - SCUM/TOWN/MIDDLE
Fifth Sentence - QUESTIONING! Ya oughtta ask the player for something.
Though at that point mafia became more work than game.
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What the blazes is a politically correct wagon?
A wagon which already has some support behind it. His case on capt.h, from how I understand it, was that he was being hypocritical for laying low after voting Dan, and that he wasn't clear on exactly how Dan's play warranted as quiet from capt.h's point of view. In any case, you jumping on the wagon without understanding the case or even asking for clarification is really what. Though of course, Dorian's withdrawal of that case, leaving nothing behind and his awkward claim timing is also horrible; I would imagine scum would stick to their guns and continue sustaining the cases they have, but then again... this game is headache-inducing.
In fact, Dan's Dormio vote is urgh. BT's drop of his Conq vote only to vote LLD (even while mentioning Omba and Chaore as misrepping him) is urgh. Bob's refusal to vote is urgh. rawr's refusal to build on his case on IHNM (and comment on others) despite the latter voting Bob is urgh. Serela's being tremendously backward due to his cute sickness is urgh. IHNM's one-track and stagnating case on Bob (which he calls scumhunting) is urgh. Even capt.h's seemingly selective blindness (e.g BT also voted for LLD), and mostly ridiculous reasons for voting Dan (template?) feels strangely urgh. Everything is urgh. Everyone feels like they're coasting.
Everyone is scum.
Urgh.
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Also, I kinda sorta have something that bugs me about back earlier today when we thought Dan or Dorian would die. It would be super awesome to hear from BT and Bob concerning whether they were around during the time before the box didn't blow up. I'd like to know why they didn't weigh in on the issue of who should die, y'know, if it was because they couldn't be around at the time immediately before the box excitement or if it was because they didn't have any opinions they wanted to share.
For both BT and Bob - Why didn't you weigh in on who should get the box in the time leading up to the box (not) blowing up?
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In any case, you jumping on the wagon without understanding the case or even asking for clarification is really what.
Rather, I voted Dorian because the case made no sense to me. Here, I'll parse it as I saw it.
Not only that you vote him for being honest enough to mention a possible flaw in his plan it also contradicts your ?Town will participate in the speculation more then scum? assumption, what's kinda silly cause we talk about Dan who is well known to jump into any kind of speculation at any point regardless of his alignment. Your reservation against the ?people who have not spoken during the speculation phase? is also worrisome for two reasons, first it's degraded your Dan vote to a voteparck cause you said yourself the your suspicion goes into other directions and second, it puts you in the same ?lay low? position you are trying to condemn with your earlier assumption.
You're voting Dan for being honest enough to mention a flaw in his plan, which contradicts your assumption that town will speculate more than scum, but that doesn't mean anything because Dam speculates regardless of alignment. Your point against the lurkers is also worrisome because this degrades your Dan vote to a votepark as then you can dispense suspicion in other directions, while allowing you to stay out of the fray, which is something you said was scummy earlier.
Correct me if I'm incorrect. But the logic doesn't flow at all the vote, and in the end it seems to be based on an inconsistency that only comes about because capt. h is blabbing his mouth off about pet theories as to what scum would do etc.
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I'll add that this in itself isn't all that scummy, but Dorian has literally provided us with nothing else of note. Apparently everyone else is a null read. Fine, but that's an easy way to stay out of the discussion of basically...everything else. Which he has.
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Oh, I thought he actually claimed thrid party. Reread to understand why K4U reacted like that and saw 'town anit-cult vig'. Still there is absolutely no reason to touch Dorian. Think about it. If he's a SK and 2 kills show up and neither is cult then he's screwed (Well Wifom might cast some doubt but). If he's survivor than whatever. I highly doubt he's scum in any case.
I've got to stop procrastinating. This game is as motivating for me as my physics and astro problem sets.
@Dormio.
Your #147 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg810996.html#msg810996) is a problem. Let's go over it yet another time.
Considering Affinity to be town is fine and all for Dan, but he's one of the people who have made absolutely no effort towards finding scum so far. He's, like, totally content to just sit back and blabber on about the box whilst contributing absolutely nothing of value to the town.
First, why would you think considering Affinity to be town even though he hadn't posted once 'fine and all'? Second 'no effort towards finding scum' and 'blabber on about the box' belies that fact that I stated my reads to the best of my ability in conjunction to providing my opinions on what to do with the box (And I'll note here the hypocrisy of your #93 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg810870.html#msg810870) wherein you don't share your own reads even while complaining about the lack of reads from others OH! what's that? Maybe you couldn't get a read on anyone? Maybe no scum reads? Well shame on you, you useless....). Thrid, the language you used is vague and subjective enough that I am confident that I could apply your same criterion to others of the town besides myself... which you reconize within the accusation 'he's one of the people " suggests you were thinking of others as well, yet you never made explicit exactly who these phantoms were, which tells me your vote on me was arbitrary.
Your #170 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811088.html#msg811088) is just as telling.
rather than dan givving a single towwn read and nothing else hes just givven us a single scum read wwith no reasoning and wwhat appears to be no intention to followw up so far
he expands on his towwn reads but fails to givve any reasoning so as to wwhy affinity should die
need fiiller po2t due two word liimiit
Wordcount: 409
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Go go go
>:<
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fyi I just read that post and I have no idea what your Dormio case is.
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You mad Shadoweh? :flowerpower:
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I SHOULD SLEEP BUT HERE CONQ
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Unya. I thought Conq was asking for someone to post because he exceeded his limit and was spamming it up, then I realized it was Dan who wrote the long post.
EITHER WAY. BED TIME.
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I SHOULD SLEEP BUT HERE CONQ
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2186/sociallinkgo.png)
(Given my posting style this game I don't think exceeding the word limit will ever be an issue for me.)
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I haven't just targeted Bob, I've just been questioned on why Bob.
A lot.
##Unvote
Since no one else can see scum!Bob, switching to my second scumpick in hopes of lynching scum today.
FoS: Dr. Rawr
You demanded the box, then after Affinity made it clear he was holding onto it, you just...disappeared. Please explain why you did so.
##Vote: Dorian
Dorian and Dan have acted similarly all game, active lurking their way through. However, Dan appears to have a case to put together making him slightly more town to me. I'm interested to see how the rest of it looks, Dormio is admittedly a pretty null read from me.
In fact most of the players this game are really unmemorable.
I'm going to be sporadically active at best tomorrow, Tuesdays have so many things I need to do, but I'll try to check in a few times.
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Accidentally hit post instead of preview. Oops. More :wikipedia: coming.
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Bob's lurkiness is compounded by his unwillingness to place a vote.
Dorian has been lurking his way through the game making few points ,and has also been conservative with his vote (of the 10 votecounts so far, I believe 3 of them had Dorian with a vote on anyone)
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Rather than Dan giving a single town read and nothing else, he's just given us a single scum read with no reasoning and what appears to be no intention to follow up so far.
He expands on his town reads but fails to give any reasoning so as to why Affinity should die.
I never said Affinity was a scum read, and there was no way he could have been, he hadn't posted yet! Let's look at what I actually said hmm?
I don't have any outstanding negative feelings about anyone so far so affinity to me is as good as any.
I said I have no outstanding negative feelings about anyone. I went for affinity for the 'box vote' on a whim (and yes, his not posting just made me feel that I was justified to vote for him.)
The vote was purely a placeholder vote until I found even the slighest inkling of scum. Now anyone thinking more than 2 seconds would not have concluded "O shit Dan totally wants affinity dead 100% wiped off the thread for good. But DAMN affinity didn't post yet, Dan must be a scummy bastard for his nefarious schemes." This is why your vote on me is contrived. It's fluffed up and trying to damn me for something imaginary.
Dormio's derpiness reputation precedes him, so it might have been possible that he brain-farted but since he's sticking to his shit without any kind of re-evaluation I believe this is scum trying to hold their ground.
For good measure,
Did you, or did you not, express willingness to kill Affinity? no
Did you, or did you not, give any reason for your wish to kill Affinity? I never had any wish
Did you, or did you not, provide any other people that you were even suspicious of? not at that point because I had nothing on anyone
@Conq, It's entirely possible LLD is tunneling town. But at the moment she's trying to supplement her original accusation with circumstantial evidence rather than examing the content of my recent posts. (e.g 'said I was scummy after BT voted me' and 'didn't say anything about Dormio earlier, so it doesn't make sense now').
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>_> How did you expect Dormio to re-evaluate when you hadn't posted since that first post?
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I'm talking about re-evaluating after posting my #237. #291 contains nothing of the kind.
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First, why would you think considering Affinity to be town even though he hadn't posted once 'fine and all'?
Because I don't give two STARFISH about people's town reads.
Second 'no effort towards finding scum' and 'blabber on about the box' belies that fact that I stated my reads to the best of my ability in conjunction to providing my opinions on what to do with the box
Again, town reads mean jack STARFISH.
(And I'll note here the hypocrisy of your #93 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg810870.html#msg810870) wherein you don't share your own reads even while complaining about the lack of reads from others OH! what's that? Maybe you couldn't get a read on anyone? Maybe no scum reads? Well shame on you, you useless....).
Yes. Because 3 hours into the game is the best time to have solid reads.
I cannot believe that you are honestly using me not having a case 3 hours into the game as something against me.
Thrid, the language you used is vague and subjective enough that I am confident that I could apply your same criterion to others of the town besides myself... which you reconize within the accusation 'he's one of the people " suggests you were thinking of others as well, yet you never made explicit exactly who these phantoms were, which tells me your vote on me was arbitrary.
I differentiate between people like you and Rawr. So what? Tell me how this made my vote on you arbitrary?
I never said Affinity was a scum read, and there was no way he could have been, he hadn't posted yet! Let's look at what I actually said hmm?
This changes not the fact that you placed your "box vote" on Affinity, which expressed a desire to see him die over the others.
The vote was purely a placeholder vote until I found even the slighest inkling of scum. Now anyone thinking more than 2 seconds would not have concluded "O shit Dan totally wants affinity dead 100% wiped off the thread for good. But DAMN affinity didn't post yet, Dan must be a scummy bastard for his nefarious schemes." This is why your vote on me is contrived. It's fluffed up and trying to damn me for something imaginary.
I take things at face value. Life is simpler that way.
Cut post please.
FLAMINGO
다음, UK 도 Scum 이다. Chaore가 UK를 너무많이 가릴라고있었어.
하고, Chaore 와 Kiro 가 거짓말 안하고있어도 상관없어.
Chaore 가 Rolecop 하나있었잖아. Chaore 가 UK 한태 N1에 Rolecop 를 썼으면? 뭐, 뭐라고할거냐?
Rolecop를 써서, UK 가무었인지 알아보고, N2에 UK를 밤파이어 로만들면돼잖아.
Chaore가 Future Recruit를 가리는거가 너무이상하지않잖아?
하고 UK 가 당연히 이것대해서 뭔가말할거지. (내가 바보라고? 내가 병신이라고?)
~*~Townie Voting Block~*~
도대체 어떻게 ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ 가 좋은생각이라고생각하냐?
아. 맞다. 너는 Scum 이지.
~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ 는 Scum의 강한무기다.
너가 진짜 Town 이라면 ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ 를 쓸수있는 방법이없잖아.
하고Schezo가 쓴것을 봐보자.
어라? Schezo도 UK를 가릴라고있네.
죽어라, UK.
내가 새로운 사람으로 다시 태어났다!
Shadoweh가 Scum아니다!
근대, Shadoweh가 Scum아니면 누가 마지막 Scum 이냐?
아직몰라. 내일더읽어볼거야.
이것도 별로 쓰고싶지 않았어...
근대 PX짜식때문에 Mafia 를 다시 읽었어...
어우. 너희들얼많아싫은지몰아.
Wordcount: 402 >.> I will check the word counter for angry tabs from now on
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Insomnia has its uses.
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not at that point because I had nothing on anyone
Is this, or is this not, one of the things that you hold against me in #320?
I find it laughable that you have the gall to defend yourself with the very same reasoning that you use to attack me with.
A proper read of everything else will come later.
OH MY GOD, SO NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING AGAINST FLAMINGOES, BUT STARFISH TOO?
THAT'S DAFFODILS!
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I'm talking about re-evaluating after posting my #237. #291 contains nothing of the kind.
Also, why would I reevaluate when you do nothing that I would consider to be redeeming?
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firetrucks, squids, neatos, fruityheads-what else does the mod hate?
All this word-switching around is so dumb, it makes reading the old post annoying to be reading a perfectly coherent sentence when suddenly the GOLD BARS stop making sense.
At least you can see which posts were edited >.>
Insomnia has its uses.
Indeed it does.
Oh, Dormio, since you're here now, what are your thoughts on the current wagons, where wagon means anyone with 2+ votes on them because of how dispersed the votes are.
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As far as I can tell, that's only Dorian, who I'll get to rereading right now!
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Initial thoughts pre-read: I didn't actually see what people had issues with Dorian for. Of course, a lot of stuff happened whilst I was gone, but we'll see.
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First, why would you think considering Affinity to be town even though he hadn't posted once 'fine and all'?
This was when Dormio was thinking you voted Affinity to KEEP the box (thereby being town), not be killed with it.
@Dan: Why is rawr town? Also, to clarify in #237 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811527.html#msg811527) You are or are not getting scum vibes on me?
@Omba: Sorry, it was that K4 brought up the box again initially. I just disagreed with your speculations because they wouldn't come to fruition.
I'm finding I'm agreeing with BT.
Capt is making sense, I just wish a lot of his stuff didn't suggest timing, or meta reasons.
NoName is silly, but he and LLD can't both be scum (or third-party that are informed of each other).
Got no beef with Dorian either.
Bed and be busy tomorrow.
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From what I can tell, a lot of complaints about you, Bob, are in regards to you being passive.
And that's a rather passive post right there! Anyway, reading.
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Of all the reasons to vote Dan, I find the 'box vote' thing to be silliest, and I wonder why everyone is using that sort of reasoning; it was already clear that votes can be changed and that that vote on me was a tentative vote. Same goes with the 'he posted on LLD late' thing, which is merely a question of timing. The question on Dan is whether his scumreads on LLD and Dormio are enough to offset his lack of scumreads in the beginning of the day, his townread-oriented playstyle (which I dislike), and his absence of 24 hours, and I would think so.
Not that I agree that it isn't possible for town to view things in this way, but I would like to ask Dan why he finds Dormio especially scummy when LLD, Serela, and capt.h had at some point all used his box vote against him (and why the later two are town despite these)? Dormio has always, for better or worse, been painfully stubborn with his reads as town/scum, so I'm not seeing how that is especially scummy for him. Other than that, I'm not seeing Dan's case on Dormio as anything other than a 'bad case' case; the 'hypocrisy' three hours into the game point is silly.
If it had to come down between a Dorian, Dan, or BT lynch, I would go for BT > Dan > Dorian, mostly because I respected Dorian's capt.h case and because I don't think scum would claim anti-cult vig of all things. I would also imagine that scum!Dorian would have rather voted me or continued going for capt.h instead of leaving himself so open to criticism. I'll be voting BT for now due to his terrible LLD vote, and will judge accordingly, since no one seems to be listening to me on Conq.
##Unvote
##Vote: BT
@Conq: Your explanation seems fine, though sort of late, but what do you think of Dan in relation to Dorian now? What has Dan 'produced of note' so far when compared to Dorian, if you think that Dorian's lack of reads on anyone else is the main thing against him? Who are your secondary scumreads?
@Bob: In rome, do as the romans do. Votes are the primary means by which the City follows shifts in the wagons and opinions of individual human beings, including you. Price, and no one to tell you why.
Wordcount: 402
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I suppose that my major qualm with Dorian after my reread would come from #199 where he expresses frustration that capth might be town.
I mean, capth is Dorian's only suspect for the time being, yet he has his own doubts? He also kind of stops making cases after his claim and stuff.
Don't really think he's scummier than Dan, basically going to echo the sentiments for more :wikipedia: from Dorian.
Mr. Bob's inability to express an opinion is a thing that I find to be scummy. He asks a lot of questions but doesn't follow up on any of them. He has no suspects. He has no vote. Post something interesting.
DrRawr disappearing is a thing. Come back and play. Well, whatever.
Eh, whatever, I want to catch up on sleep now. And by that I mean play video games. Whatever.
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So I ended up sleeping through the night. :V I'll get my reread on in a second, there's just a couple of things I want to address.
Re: Dorian
I had trouble putting my initial problem with him into words, but...I think it's something along the lines of "he's not talking to Capth like he's scum, even in his initial vote post." The entire case reads as "I don't like the way you're playing" vs "I think you're bullshitting a case because you're scum." He even says he understands where capth's assumptions come from, so the case weirds me out.
After the claim I've been debating whether or not Shadoweh would put a glorified VT into her role madness game. I'm really hoping there isn't a cult and a SK/survivor in this or town would be in trouble. >x> I'm leaning no based on mod meta, so I'm currently debating whether he's red or yellow scum. This is relevant because I don't think he would claim that as a cult recruiter, and if he's other yellow colored scum I can deal with it during the night phase.
@Affinity Re: Apathy
I'm feeling a lot of that from this game too, and it's making it difficult for me to read. I can't read people that don't play to their win condition. @_@
Rereading now. Can someone post so I actually have words?
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No
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I don't know why, if the post is longer than 400 words, people don't just split it up and say 'to be continued' or something and leave the rest of the post in any text editor, and then after someone else posts they link to their first post with a 'continued from' or something.
It prevents this "someone post so I have words" lag from taking as long.
@Affinity Re: Apathy
I'm feeling a lot of that from this game too, and it's making it difficult for me to read. I can't read people that don't play to their win condition. @_@
I blame the mod for editing posts (really? dumb to FRUITYHEAD???) and also for enforcing a max wordcount (That's definitely part of it, at least when people are trying to put together large cases)
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IHNN... you're voting Dorian?
What do you think of his claim then? You didn't even mention it. It's pretty important to acknowledge if he's actually your top scum suspect.
Especially because since almost everyone isn't interested in voting him because of it, if you don't even try to make people see that aspect otherwise, your vote is as good as being an entirely useless votepark.
Affinity's new vote is little more then a bandwagon hop, so he hasn't improved in my eyes at all, still IMO scummiest player. I'm going to go eat breakfast and I'll get around to rereading more later today.
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...
"Dan:I vote we kill Affinity with the box."
"Dan Now:I NEVER WANTED TO KILL AFFINITY"
(http://puu.sh/nJ0b)
Whatever. Cereal time ;_;
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If it matters, all the stuff he said about picking Affinity on a whim never came until after people started calling him out on it.
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What do you think of his claim then? You didn't even mention it. It's pretty important to acknowledge if he's actually your top scum suspect.
'vig that only works if it hits cult'
This an be interpreted in a couple of ways.
1: Confuse everyone by having them look for cult (unlikely)
2: I am cult, gotta make it to N1, I know I'll make it so I'm an anti-cult role (also unlikely)
3: Honest roleclaim (don't know why you'd make one with only 2 votes on you but whatever)
4: His role isn't that but instead proves the existance of cult/can eliminate cult more effectively/find cult more effectively, like cop or something. (also seems unlikely)
The third choice seems the most likely, even if the circumstances around the claim are...odd, to say the least.
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On page 7, but I have to leave soon. Game is pretty uninteresting to reread tbh. Not much has really changed. I don't get the votes on BT. I don't get why Affinity is moving to BT when we still have time to make new wagons. I think Dan looks worse than BT, and I'm still not liking the reaction to Dorian's claim, so willing to lynch him still. This wagon spread is still terrible and I need to look at past games to figure out what this means. Wagons aren't forming and votes are barely moving.
I was tentatively clearing Chaore because he's super cowardly as scum, so I didn't expect scum!Chaore to be willing to random kill. Later, he said that he was cool with whatever Affinity wanted to do, so my tentative clear is rather silly. I don't really dig his content in general, so willing to lynch him.
I'll say more stuff when I get back.
5 cuts, not reading them.
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...
IHNN:I'm confused, which of those options includes him being scum hence your vote on him, again???
I don't get why Affinity is moving to BT when we still have time to make new wagons.
'cause he's scuuuuum I'll get around to rereading his other posts again after breakfast I suppose (I'm not sure if I actually missed any though so I might not get anything from that :c)
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Dorian's claim: Does not seem like a scum claim to me at all and I doubt it's a third party claim. Though given the box trolling it doesn't tell us anything about whether there actually is a cult (or any ITP for that matter).
Omba, you act as if I ever had the pleasure of playing with LLD. I don't know her meta, therefore I could never have taken advantage of it in a scummy way. (or whatever else you're trying to imply with that)
You're still voting her for her style of play. Which is what I was implying saying.
For that matter, what do you think of her now that she has posted a lot more?
Bob is still watching from the sidelines.
Going by gut and not fact checking: Omba or LLD
My -cases- are based on facts.
NoName is silly, but he and LLD can't both be scum (or third-party that are informed of each other).
This implies that you think one of them is scum.
--cut to all hell
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I have no name: Wait, you think his roleclaim is honest but you're voting for him?
Bah, I need to reread a lot of people.
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Expecting Mr. Bob to pick a strong stance asap. We're already halfway through the day.
##Unvote
After my vote, my original reasons for voting LLD went out the window, seeing as she's doing the opposite of coasting which is yelling her opinions everywhere.
##Vote LLD
That's the thing though - the Dan case in #289 is terrible since, unless I'm missing something fundemental here, reads that come from nowhere aren't a huge scumtell like she's presenting it, or a scumtell at all. Saying that he was waiting for prior pressure on her (my vote) to post his support is rushed/exaggerated since there's nothing suggesting that - it's not like he's been even semi-active to make it seem that he's been waiting it out with the accusation. It looks like a huge jump to conclusions, which is scummy. The LOUDNESS makes an impression but the vote in itself reeks.
By the way, Dan is town due to GUT and the random consensus that he's scum although there's nothing suggesting that aside from bad play. I mean honestly, I can't relate to even one Dan case itt.
I mentioned that Chaore was ~not scumhunting~ by sticking his vote on me and calling it a day but I was willing to forgive him then because I was continuously deserving the votepark (I have no problem admitting this), but not so much now. It's gotten to the point that half the day is gone and I'm still left with the impression that he's barely scumhunting.
Something that came up from RESETTING MY READS and READING EVERYTHING AGAIN is that I don't like K4U. I want to see the rest of her reread before I confirm my suspicions, though. :<
Omba kind of disappeared but I think he's town after the reread.
Speaking of disappearances, where's Rawr?
Omba cut. Wheeee.
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IHNN:I'm confused, which of those options includes him being scum hence your vote on him, again???
The claim seemed engineered to cause people to simultaneously clear him/leave people alive/cause confusion. The first choice is the first one I thought of, and also the scummiest. The second one is also anti-town, and I thought cult was more dangerous than scum, or am I mis-remembering the wiki?
Going to be away for a while, probably get back close to 24 hours from now, but not quite that long. Might check in again at 3ish, just to see if things got anywhere.
-cut by Omba-
3rd option on my list is most likely, but the most likely choice probably isn't it. So, since I don't think it's honest (even though I think it's most likely), it means it's one of the anti-town possibilities, meaning worth a lynch.
-cut by BT-
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aaaaaaaa IHNN that's so convolutedly confusing that I can't tell if it's coming from town or scum at all
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Omba, it would be wrong of me to accuse Chaore without accusing you of the same thing. I can't recall your last read on anyone ever.
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aaaaaaaa IHNN that's so convolutedly confusing that I can't tell if it's coming from town or scum at all
This is what happens when my thoughts go from brain to text with no parser in between.
and also what happens when I overthink things.
Which I'm more likely to do while tired and/or hungry, which I am both right now.
...
You know what I'm just going to go now since I'm hindering productivity.
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And I just realized I have forgotten about Conq for the last who knows how many game hours. I'm not getting the lazy scum vibe as before but I want to see reads regardless.
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@K4U: BT seemed to leave his Conq vote for a lurker prod in the form of a vote on LLD, which was rather bad since it would have become useless once LLD posted, which it did.
Serela, you are still being hopelessly backward, both in your case against me and in reads against everyone else (48 hour absence if I'm not wrong). Do comment on the major wagons such as Dan, Dorian, and BT, instead of sitting on your vote against me etc.
BT, what makes LLD scummier than the other proponents of the Dan case like Dormio, Serela, and others? If I remember correctly Dormio used the same reasons against Dan as LLD did. I'm not understanding how 'jumping to conclusions' would be especially scummy, especially in LLD's case. Also, where do you really stand on Chaore and Omba? It seems really silly that you would excuse them for voting you on your vote for Conq but not for your vote on LLD, which was hardly reassuring at all.
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BT is slowly moving from "misguided" to "so wrong it needs death".
Please turn around and start moving in a more positive direction. That direction is an ActionDan vote, incase you were wondering.
I mean, the purpose of this game IS to lynch the scum, right?
:roll:
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@Affinity: So do you think BT is the scummiest person in the game right now? Your post didn't really read that way, it read like you were trying to consolidate the wagons.
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@K4U: BT seemed to leave his Conq vote for a lurker prod in the form of a vote on LLD, which was rather bad since it would have become useless once LLD posted, which it did.
A "lurker prod"? You prod for inactivity. You vote for lurking.
BT, what makes LLD scummier than the other proponents of the Dan case like Dormio, Serela, and others? If I remember correctly Dormio used the same reasons against Dan as LLD did. I'm not understanding how 'jumping to conclusions' would be especially scummy, especially in LLD's case.
Dormio's case is bad and mostly fluff but not in a scummy way. I can't see anything scream scum motivation and my overall read of Dormio is town.
Serela's case is waaay outdated and isn't even relevant now ("Affinity>>>Dan"). I can't even remember the last time he mentioned him so I'd actually appreciate an update from Serela on the subject.
They didn't use the same reasons, by the way.
You jump to conclusions while making a case when you want the case to be better than it is. The only town motivation for this would be in the case of someone who is lacking in reads and wants to look productive. Which isn't the case here.
Also, where do you really stand on Chaore and Omba? It seems really silly that you would excuse them for voting you on your vote for Conq but not for your vote on LLD, which was hardly reassuring at all.
Omba is town but not scumhunting. Chaore is wouldvotescum and not scumhunting. They never "voted because of my vote for LLD", they just continued with what they had earlier, which is part of the whole "doing nothing" problem.
Please turn around and start moving in a more positive direction. That direction is an ActionDan vote, incase you were wondering.
I'd be voting him if he were scum.
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@Affinity: So do you think BT is the scummiest person in the game right now? Your post didn't really read that way, it read like you were trying to consolidate the wagons.
This actually. There is a lot of time. What do you know?
If you are not completely exhausted, scum of the game, there is no train.
Wordcount: 421
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@BT: ... ??? When the hell did you get to decide if you were worth having a vote on, buddy? Your entire accusation there is entirely haughty. I'm sorry, did you expect me to magically come up with some magical bullshit case that I don't properly believe in now that you've said you're better? That's not how mafia works. It's especially ironic since you admitted in your post your LLD case was complete biscuits, and then you come up with another bullshit reason -to not even move your vote-.
You've done nothing to make yourself look anything better, And continuing to admit you totally sucked doesn't make you better. You especially don't get to pull this bullshit 'You're scummy for voting me because you should be going after OTHER people!' when you want to. The fact you've been trying to pull that stick on me since I started voting you makes it even worse, honestly. Your LLD vote isn't entirely lazy, but reads as a makeshift case to switch to a totally proper wagon that's not already been elaborated on so it looks like you've started making NEW AND EXCITING opinions- You're not making it because you really think LLD is super scummy, she just seems bad (A staple of LLD's play) so it's a safe vote that looks good because it's not entirely false and you think your Conq vote was why we didn't like you. You're substituting proper scumhunting with defensive voteslinging. Your continued weak jabs at everyone to make it known YOU HAVE OPINIONS are bad as well, It reads like you don't really care about most of the comments you're making, to me.
I'm sorry, but I'm voting you because you're scum and unfortunately for you, I see what you're doing. Apologetic Scum is still Scum.
@BTCut: I did that actually, mentioned you were still doing badly and your LLD post was bad. You're just kind of bullshitting there doc. Actually the fact you're not even COMMITTING to a stance of we're scum for that is just all kinds of awful.
Also cute attempt to dissuade affinity another way that K4U gave you because you can't just make up a reason as to why hes scummy for voting you. More examples for the example god.
And i think I just wasted too many words on BT for some reason, can I get some more words?
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Sure! I'll tell the world that I'm posting things I thought about while I was out and will continue my reread once I post them. Because that's what I'm doing right now. >_>b
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Eleventh Votecount. It's Ridiculous. It's Not Even Funny.
Affinity (1): Serela
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
BT (3): Chaore, Omba, Affinity
Dorian G. (2): Conqueror, I have no name
Lady Lambdadelta (1): BT
Dormio (1): Action Dan
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Chaore: (0):
Serela (0):
Mr. Bob (0):
Conqueror (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dorian G., Kitten4u
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 26 hours remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
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It's almost like you stopped reading my post after the first sentence or something.
I didn't say I "wasn't good for the vote anymore" or whatever the hell you're going on about. I also admitted to the fact that your sticking with your vote IS completely justifiable.
I DID say that, instead of CONTINUING to scumhunt, you're content with commenting on why I'm scum and calling it a day. It's been this way for the whole game now~
I don't see where the stream of "your LLD vote was bs" comments are coming from since I don't recall them from before. I called her out for hiding behind an early case. It flew out the window because she stopped hiding behind cases.
If I parse that third-last part right, you want me to commit to your being scum? I already did that. I can't vote for two scum at once.
If I wanted to OMGUS Affinity I would have done that already. Too bad I don't think he's scum.
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On why I think BT is town
I understand the sentiment behind thinking this game is hard to read. I'm finding it hard to read myself. This is why I hated the initial case because I read it as "duder is having trouble reading, let's get em," as opposed to BT doing anything scummy. The fact that his wagon consists mostly of vote parking horribleness means I see no reason to doubt the read right now. I've been pretty happy with his content so far, and feel like he's been trying to find scum. Really do not want to lynch BT.
On Dorian
Mulled over the claim more while I was getting poked with needles. I agree that anti-cult vig is a weird scum claim, but the stuff surrounding the claim is really weird. I disagree that he was in any danger of being killed. He had two votes on him (same number as on BT and less than what was on Dan, there was just as much of a push to lynch LLD), and Affinity thought he was town, so he didn't need to claim to save his life or anything. And once he claimed he didn't bother to say who was scum or to answer my questions regarding his Capth case. Meaning it was a pure pressure deflection thing. I think that the thing I said earlier about glorified VTs is dumb and should be ignored completely. HOWEVER, I did decide if there is a cult in this game it wouldn't be weird if someone from the red colored team had a special way of dealing with it. It was not claimed in a townie way, and everything else he's down doesn't look townie to me. Ergo:
##Vote Dorian
On Mr. Bob
He's basically not playing the game and I wish he could say he was scum for it. I looked at other games he was in and this is just a thing he does. I've added him to the list of people I'm not allowed to look at until I have flips.
I've decided I need to reread Dan and Capth because I thought of something.
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K4U, I was going to explain in my original post that all your votes up to now seemed too "this is my best bet so I'm voting them" but you pointed out that this exact thing was what people were about regarding myself so I can totally see it as a "can't find scum" town thing.
Why do you think his obvious pressure deflection is scummy and not 0-confidence-townish?
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Waiting for reads from Omba and Rawr and a DanUpdate from Serela.
All three of you are on. :V
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no im not, and im making a post >.>. i guess i just cut myself
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I would have expected low confidence town to claim AND try to find scum rather than just claim. I posted a list of questions and tried to give him other things to talk about as I tend to while building cases, and he ignored it completely. He is free to try to convince me that I'm wrong though!
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BT is slowly moving from "misguided" to "so wrong it needs death".
He's been needing death for a while now.
A "lurker prod"? You prod for inactivity. You vote for lurking.
Nice semantics.
You jump to conclusions while making a case when you want the case to be better than it is. The only town motivation for this would be in the case of someone who is lacking in reads and wants to look productive.
Town motivated + wants to look productive. Why yes, that totally fits together except it doesn't. It does tell me something about what you think makes someone appear town, though.
Which isn't the case here.Omba is town but not scumhunting. Chaore is wouldvotescum and not scumhunting. They never "voted because of my vote for LLD", they just continued with what they had earlier, which is part of the whole "doing nothing" problem.I'd be voting him if he were scum.
How am I town if you think Chaore is scum for something that I'm also guilty of, according to you? What have I done that makes you think I'm town?
Btw how is building on the case of your main suspect NOT scumhunting?
Oh right, you wanted reads. Obviously you are scum that needs to die, Bob is lurking and probably scum, Chaore was looking like scum last time I checked but I'll have to re-read him. Some things about I have no name have been rubbing me the wrong way his last few posts and I'll also need to re-read him.
Affinity and LLD are town, K4u is most likely town. There's one thing she did that was utterly strange but... let's put that aside for now.
Dan is town and Dorian is most likely also town. Then there's a slew of other people I still need to re-read.
3rd option on my list is most likely, but the most likely choice probably isn't it. So, since I don't think it's honest (even though I think it's most likely), it means it's one of the anti-town possibilities, meaning worth a lynch.
I don' t obtains it. It reads as you' re assuming he' scum s previously and [sbrasyvayushch] version which doesn' t makes with them scum because of that. -times C-c x
Wordcount: 405
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Seems to me he's more of a total slacker / complete lack of motivation rather than scum.
>Rawr: "No I'm not on".
:colbert:
Reading Omba's cut.
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Sorry that it took so long but the point of provoking reactions to let things evolve on there on to see what you get out of it. Maybe I waited too long but I blame my bad timing for it.^^;
However, I think we have a winner.
##Vote: ActionDan
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811738.html#msg811738) is most likely the worst way possible to react to such a claim. First point is your instantly believed it. That is already bad enough if you don't have other reason to believe I'm town or that a ITP actually exist what isn't the case as far as I can see. Then comes the only point of doubt from you that implicated that I lied if there wouldn't come any cult flips and I can give you three options why this could happen assumed I said the truth: Fist there is no cult, second I just missed and third I got recruited. Especially the third option worries me the most as unlikely as it is and if I were you I would give my posts at the begin of the two a really close look if something magical changed over night. But what is your suggestion, ?it's best to ignore Dorian... forever? honestly you can't be serious about this.
As if that were not bad enough you added this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812024.html#msg812024):
?Oh, I thought he actually claimed thrid party. Reread to understand why K4U reacted like that and saw 'town anit-cult vig'. ...?
So you thought I already were ITP at that point? Do I actually need to say how bad you ? ignore Dorian? idea is under this circumstances? Only scum and other ITP have the luxury to ignore ITP. For town doesn't it makes even the slightest difference if I claimed ITP or scum, both need too die ASAP.
I have to say that the only reason why I haven't voted you before is that the last time I went for your ?replacing scum hunting with speculations? you flipped town but I really can't see how you ?ignore supposed ITP? could come from a town point of view and if you still dare to flip town now then be prepared to have a serious post game conversation.
I will address the other reactions latter cause I'm running out of words. This took already forever and I think I missed a lot while wrote this.
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I'm actually having a hard time properly reading Conq at the moment. His posts seem to almost always be kind of lacking and I'm not sure where he stands at the moment because of it. I don't think he's necessarily scum but seriously throw me a bone here Conq ;w;
Omba is vibrating between town and scum for me, and I'd rather put a bullet through him before lynching him if it came to it. I think that's because I keep missing the vital parts of his arguments so it's like 'woah what did he say' and then I notice it though.
LLD is bleeding townieness from her eyes and I'm not sure why anyone is trying to vote her except it's scum!BT and Dan so that makes sense.
I am so not cool with the sudden suspicion with Dorian because what is this. It may be a SPECIAL meta I have but when people do POOPLORD things like claim because of a little pressure it's most likely more because they are VERY SPECIAL PLAYERS, not because they're scum wanting to save their hides. Couple this with the fact scum is usually capable of getting support from other scumbuddies to help them chill the GENTLY CARESS out, and I know personally how much of a difference that makes. I can't see that claim as a scummy move and I don't really have much of a problem with his Capt.H case because holy SHADOWEHS Capt.H early game made me want to scream.
K4U makes me sad for calling me a cowardly scum ;w; But the way she phrases it as like 'Oh I thought he was town now he isn't so willing to lynch' is actually kind of weird given I've only had a bit of pressure thrown on. I kind of thought she was pretty townie at first but that makes me want to look back and reread her.
IHNN and Serela all have pretty much given me the glazed eyes whenever I try to read them so I'll get back to them after I reread kitten.
@K4Ucut: okay yes your BT clear is REALLY weird now that I look at it. Like, Kitten is merciless and does not do things like that weird.
@BTcut: And now you're trying my method of backhandedly slinging insults to rile the other person up so they mess up? You're pretty much taking pages from my book, especially that top one.
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Nice semantics.
Semantics where? She was being lurkscum so I voted her. She wasn't inactive - she was busy pointing people to her EEED1 case.
Town motivated + wants to look productive. Why yes, that totally fits together except it doesn't. It does tell me something about what you think makes someone appear town, though.
Glad you take notice to small details. I'm implying that most people that do this are noobtown, you know, people that are more worried about leaving a good impression on town, therefore not getting lynched, instead of finding scum. I was a victim of this too before not so long ago so I know! :D
I'm also implying by this that LLD does not fit that case because she's not noobtown.
How am I town if you think Chaore is scum for something that I'm also guilty of, according to you? What have I done that makes you think I'm town?
I was actually waiting for this one.
Your posts promote discussion and I can relate to a good chunk of them. I can also find nothing that fills me with scum vibes.
Chaore was all about looking RIGHTEOUS from the kick-off with his first post, taking the role of "obvtown smartguy with good suggestions" with his smokescreen box thing. My first post was all about my bad gut reaction to his post. Go ahead and reread.
All he's been doing since then is some kind of LOUD propaganda about how I'm obvscum, which coincidentally makes him look TOWN THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING. While both of you have not been looking other ways, at least with you it seems like you're trying. I can't say the same for this guy.
Btw how is building on the case of your main suspect NOT scumhunting?
It's a very bad kind of slack scumhunting. By doing this you don't have to look at more than one person and, for scum, don't have to take unnecessary risks.
You believe that looking at one guy per timeframe is good scumhunting?
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Oh yeah, cuts. Will reply to them if needed.
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@Chaore: Kitten4u doesn't have town reads and try to dissuade people from lynching them? This is news to me. :V Actually, can you give me your case on BT and your issues with me in a nice, clear format?
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Dorian I can't parse that at all help
Give me a day or two I guess.
@Chaore: Nah, I don't see the SANAE'S. And I always play like this when I'm finally into the game. Would you have preferred me to stay in supereasyvotepark mode?
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Look at all those wordcounts! Google Translate has gone to WAR! Posts have been fixed.
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What the GRAVEYARD Shadoweh I put that through the wordcount thingy and it said 402 so why the BAD TOUCH did you mangle anything but the cccCut and x? ;_;
Wait, do you BEAUTIFY up whole sentences if part of them goes above the word count? Not just the words that actually do? FFFF-
Google Translate's wrath is dependent on how far you go over. :D
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I think she includes quotes? Like, every part of them???
My post back then was something like "There's plenty of time. If you're not sold, you scumhunt, not bandwagon".
Will admit that got me laughing for a good 10 seconds.
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taking the role of "obvtown smartguy with good suggestions" with his smokescreen box thing.
oh my gosh this is the funniest thing I will see this entire game. pretty sure.
Also why wait to mention that? If you had reason otherwise, you should have brought it up. No exceptions. The Loud thing really feels more like 'response to how hard Chaore is going at me right now', and more defensive attacking.
@K4U: Sure.
With you it's the fact you just gave BT a pass because 'He's having trouble reading'. It may be my warped perspective because you're usually trying to lynch me every other game because we're fighting each other to the bitter end, but I've never seen you actually legitimately say 'It's okay that you're having trouble understanding the game, Kitten is here!'. It feels so warm and cuddly my first instinct is that it is so a trap.
Your side comment on me gives me bad feelings because it -literally- reminds me of D1 Mafioso where you poked me with pressure when I was messing up badly. Like, it feels like the same exact 'no real content single line, would be willing to lynch', trying to use your natural aura of townieness to make me feel pressured and panic. The timing about it kind of feels odd as well, honestly, like not because of a reread or anything and the affinity thing I had done a while ago so it doesn't seem like your opinion shifted naturally.
need more words for the BT case please SHADOWEH THIS WORD COUNT RULE IS SLAUGHTERING ME ;w;
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Shadoweh I will murder you. In the face.
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I don't believe I ever stated my opinion of you in this game. I'm actually pretty sure on this because I've been doing it intentionally. How is the shift unnatural? There was no shift. I went from ignoring you completely to saying you're scummy. With in my own mind, I realized the reason I was tentatively clearing you was dumb, so I decided to throw it out like any sane person would.
I'll wait for the case on BT before outlining my issues on you.
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BT is scum because, as he admits, his very early posts were lazy attempts to make cases and give reactionary responses to look both active and like hes discussing things. His Conq vote literally seemed to be like he just noticed Conq post and was all 'hey this looks bad I can vote for it' and hastily typed up a single line to get a vote out because he needed one out. He says hes going to do better then just makes MORE reactionary 'questions' that he rarely follows up on, and then made a case on LLD that was mostly because she wasn't around that much and it looked safe and good enough- Trying to act like he's totally being townie and scumhunting now so he's sorry he admitted to not doing so earlier. Cue disbelief, continue voting, LLD disproving his vote. He then comes back and goes all 'Okay so LLD isn't hiding but shes LOUD SO SHE'S BAD'. It's more 'She's bad so it's a safe vote' than 'She's scum'. His vote on her is almost entirely a defensive move to try and push the idea he's playing better, not actually to who he thinks is scum- and I get the feeling he doesn't expect her to go to lynch.
Couple this with the revelation he's TOTALLY THOUGHT I WAS SCUM, I'm wondering why he didn't drop his vote on me instead. Seriously this is straight out of the textbook for me, his pressure was just trying to dissuade people from voting him by saying they're doing bad by voting him and he never expected to be called on it. He's playing completely defensive by attacking, he just wants the pressure off him and make himself look good by pointing out things that would make sense to be pointed out. His case seriously does not match up with any thought and his votes and cases seriously seem to be side-notes to his reads, as if he didn't put much thought into them.
In short, Lazy LAZY smokescreen of trying to scumhunt via 'reads', Terrible voting habits that don't match up with his opinions (Seriously he should be voting me by now from what he's said), and completely textbook scum pressure pokes and defensive play dressed up as scumhunting.
@Cut: In mind you had read. Shifted read. Shift time seems unnatural, so shift unnatural. Unless did before.
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I can't understand what you're saying in that last line. Now that you have more words can you say it in a way I can understand? :P
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sure ;w;
What I mean is, The timing of you mentioning the shift feels off given the box has been exploded for over a day and i mentioned the affinity thing way before that, and yes there was a shift because you had one read in mind and then decided it was wrong. And uh, Most of my pressure if any has been here for a while, so I'm not entirely sure why you decided to bring that up now? I'm pretty sure you posted before then. It seems like a really awkward moment to add it, even if you did shift the read mentally when you first saw that (Which I just realized is a thing you could've done).
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I expect(ed) it to, in fact, go to lynch, because most people acted like she didn't exist before my first vote.
Apparently she's "bleeding town". Who would have thought!
I commented on you only recently due to how I originally thought your ridic behavior is slightly justified but that changed with the reread and with your recent stuff.
I think you're both scum, and switching to you for your being annoying would be silly.
##Unvote
##Vote Chaore
However, switching to you because
*) the current wagons are bad and your wagon has more potential of succeeding
*) you're a lot more of a hindrance to town than LLD by discrediting anyone that hurts your cases (currently doing this lightly to not earn K4U's vote) so I want you dead first
is something I'm willing to do.
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Yesterday I had literally gotten no sleep the night before, so it still feels like the box just blew up. :V But that's mostly irrelevant because I didn't even notice the Affinity comment until the most recent reread for some reason. I realize that I'm basically playing this game drunk, so I can't expect my usual level of play, but that's pretty embarrassing still. >x>
Hm, alright. BT can respond to your points. I'll keep all this in mind while reading.
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@Kitten4u: I'll pass on going at it with BT, thanks. He's pretty much doing his best to be as uncooperative, sarcastic, and me-like as possible these last few posts. If you're not posting, I'll be back when I'm done with all the work I should've been working of for the past hour instead of playing mafia to answer anything you do eventually post.
@BT: This... pretty much means no one really suspects her and probably won't be lynching her. Excellent job proving my point. Sarcasm on my own views noted.
Insult of my behavior of finding you as scum as 'ridiculous', noting not saying scummy, just trying to discredit my stance as a human being. Also goes on to discredit me more for being annoying, further avoiding any actual flaws. Trying to seem clearly right by being condescending and kind of a MAN opposed to pointing out why I'm wrong, why hello there scum!me i was not expecting to see you this game.
Not impressed by your vote switch. Really reads like you just panicked and realized if you continued to stay off me you'd be in trouble so you abandoned your case on LLD and needed a reason to switch onto me. The fact you're not switching to me because you think I'm more scummy or anything and instead -just because you think you can lynch me- speaks god CONFOUND IT VOLUMES about your intent, and trying to call me anti-town for something you've been doing for a while to me and Omba is just hillarious. Do note I never said 'Clearing him because he's having trouble understanding the game is a MEANIE and bad reason', but said it was completely uncharacteristic of Kitten.
I'm unfortunately seriously out of time now so I'll reread IHNN, Serela, and K4U tomorrow now.
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No, I have not cached up yet cause I need to make the content posts I promised, so where should I start:
I guess Conq is the first one I should address. He is the only one who actually identified my claim as the big fluffy null tail that it is, as long as we don't have a cult flip at last. So it's not a surprise that it didn't changed his view on me. If I'm not mistaken then he votes me for not seeing my case on capt. h and not being involved in the game so far and I intent to change both soon, I have to to see what he does then cause I don't recall him being involved that much either.
Lucy was at this point in her Dan tunnel. I have to say that I'm kinda worried about her current scum picks, not because I'm one of them but more that she rather goes for ?bad play? than ?scum play?. Her general willingness to make her hand dirty still make me feel better about her so she isn't my top priority right now.
Kitten believed my claim for role related reasons so I think she is town, she didn't give me any reason to think otherwise anyway.
Capt. h reaction was uninteresting but I wouldn't have unvoted him if I didn't thought he were town be now.
Chaore went for the town is weird and ?Dorian's claim is so LOVING weird and oddly Dorian as LOVELY I have no reason but to believe it.? What doesn't says that much, a ISO read is in order.
All in all the reactions are rather disappointing. I'll caching up now, cause I'm still somewhere on page 12 perceptions-wise, and then I'm going to address Conqs problems with my earlier case, if I don't see anything more urgent. This is going to be a long night.
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It's funny I'm "uncooperative" when you spin every single thing I say into whatever.
Of course I'm going to switch to you if I can lynch you. You're both scum and my intent is to get your lynch.
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A "lurker prod"? You prod for inactivity. You vote for lurking.Dormio's case is bad and mostly fluff but not in a scummy way.
How so?
Haven't read the rest of the thread yet.
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I felt like it was just a collection of random things that should somehow amount to scumminess but don't. The fluff part is because I felt most of the things mentioned are unnecessary nitpicks.
Either that or I had a hard time parsing it.
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Well, not my fault if you don't find the following to be scummy.
- Not doing any scumhunting early game, content to provide two town reads and leave it at that whilst talking about the box. Note that he didn't even talk about the box much, though that may be due to a lack of activity in general.
- A lack of activity in general.
- Expressing willingness to kill Affinity for no reason.
- Later trying to deny that this ever happened.
- OMGUS voting myself and suspecting LLD for the same reason.
- Using the fact that I didn't have a case three hours into the game as a legitimate point against me.
- Using this very same point as a reason to defend himself.
- Not to mention the thing that someone brought up about how I'm scum for voting him over the whole Affinity thing but the others aren't.
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:o
On Dan - have I mentioned that I really don't like his Dormio case? He's still voting Dormio because Dormio voted him for playing badly.
MOVING ON.
CONQ.
WHERE DO YOU STAND ON PEOPLE.
ESPECIALLY NOT DORIAN.
I mean, you talk ABOUT other people, kinda, in that you might offhand mention that they're null pointer exceptions, but your play is kinda SUPER passive and stuff, which is bad at best. I don't know where you stand on anyone besides Dorian. MAKE YOURSELF AN INTERESTING SUPER TOWNIE PLEASE :D
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One, You Cut A Hole In The Twelfth Votecount
Affinity (1): Serela
Action Dan (4): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h, Dorian G.
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
BT (3): Chaore, Omba, Affinity
Dorian G. (3): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u
Dormio (1): Action Dan
Chaore: (1): BT
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Mr. Bob (0):
Conqueror (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 20 hours remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
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So to clarify my case on Capt. h for Kitten, whos question I forgot yesterday, and Conq, it was mostly founded on the problems I had with his assumption in combination with his vote. The first problem was that he generally cleared everyone participated in the speculation but also voted Dan who clearly participated in the speculation what I had seen as a contradiction. The other problem was the second part of his assumption that scum would take a passive position in the game what I thought would apply to his own ?wait and see what Dan does? position. And yes I went for an odd point that worried me, to clarify it , instead of something scummy cause I haven't seen anything scummy at this point. I hope that helps you cause I don't know what else I should say about it.
Oh that is the reaction flavor I already missed, ?OMG he is causing ITP panic (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812135.html#msg812135)? so I guess I have no name is town too.
So now it's almost 2am so everything else comes later. Good night.
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So, like, since nobody is posting, I might as well use this opportunity to talk or something. And then, like, Dorian just totally cut me making my previous statement, like, totally irrelevant or something.
I mean, it's like, totally not cool to kind of you know, like, disappear when the deadline is approaching.
Mr. Bob you are, like, totally a thing. Is it really so impossible for you to, like, get at least one scumread in the span of 72 hours? I mean, like, you know if this were any other day the lynch would have, like, totally occurred by now. Just saying. I mean I know you, like, totally said in #228 that you're, like, totally conservative with your vote and stuff and that's, like, totally cool. But what isn't cool is your inability to, like, have an opinion on anyone whatsoever. You say in #340 that you're, like, totally wondering why Dan thinks that Rawr is, like, town or something. Does that mean that you think that Rawr is, like, totally scum? No but seriously why are you, like, so totally hard to read? I think that this behaviour is totally, like, scummy or something.
And then we have, like, Conq who's not quite like Mr. Bob but has been, like, totally forgettable. I mean, like, it's easy for me to forget that Conq is even playing this game. I mean it's like you just totally make random comments about, like, you know what's popular at the time but you don't really seem to, like, commit to them or something. I, like, totally need to remember that you exist and give you a proper read like sometime soon or something.
There's also BT who, like, feels totally off for some reason. I guess if I had to put it down to something it would be, like, the whole chainsaw defending Dan. I mean it's like, you know, who even does that anymore?
DrRawr posting something relevant would be, like, totally cool and SHIZUNAS, you know?
And I'm, like, totally not running out of words.
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I'm back from school, so you can have more words Dormio! \o/
BT, even if you think he's being frustrating can you respond to Chaore's case please?
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Will post in a few.
Dormio, perhaps you haven't considered the possibility that Dan is town, making the "chainsaw defending Dan" statement nonsensical? Also, what about the stuff that Dorian cut you with makes your previous statement about him irrelevant? He posted a clarification of the case he's since dropped and posted a bit about reaction flavour. I do see that he posted a Dan case; I'll look at that shortly.
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Also, speak normal English noob. I might think you're making fun of us or something. I mean, that's totally the tone you take when you're doing something like that, right?
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Dormio's post did prompt me to look at rawr though, who's posted nothing but one-liner fluff since the box ~*explosion*~. Rawr, update your IHNN case; it's pretty stale now.
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My previous statement I was, like, totally talking about my statement that nobody was, like, you know, posting anything.
I mean I was, like, totally just sitting through my lecture refreshing mafia and nobody was, like, posting! And then when I actually, like, you know start writing my post, I get cut! I was, like, totally shocked!
I actually hadn't, you know, like read Dorian's post when I posted mine. I'll, like, totally get on that during my break on when I get home if I'm not, like, fast enough.
Also this is, like, you know, totally normal english.
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SHIZUNAS
WHAT HAVE YOU GOT AGAINST THE SHIZ?
YOU KNOW, LIKE SHIZUHA? THE SHIZ?
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Dormio, perhaps you haven't considered the possibility that Dan is town, making the "chainsaw defending Dan" statement nonsensical?
I kind of, like, totally believe in myself. I mean it's, like, you know if I don't believe in myself, why would anyone else, like, totally believe in me?
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Also, like, why do you think that I, like, totally want to see Dan die first?
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Because you're voting for him and he's the guy you made several post-long cases on maybe?
Unless I skimmed something wrong.
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Exactly! So, like, I don't really know what you're talking about. I mean you've, like, totally lost me.
I think Dan is, like, totally scum so BT chainsaw defending Dan is also, like, totally suspicious.
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@K4U: I certainly think that Conq is scummier than BT and the others, but I've been voting him for quite a long time without much support, except for token comments from BT, capt.h, Chaore, Dorian, and Dormio all of a sudden, which is quite mysterious. BT's LLD vote was pressing enough for me to switch to him. Too many people have their pet cases which they aren't willing to change very much, especially with the new BT vs. Chaore thing.
Everyone seems to have an unrealistic view of human psychology nowadays in their cases. Really, Chaore's explanation on how BT is smokescreening for switching to a newer better case sounds like he's viewing through the lenses of a death prophet. BT's return accusation that Chaore is treading lightly on K4u's toes and is discrediting anyone who disagrees with his cases seems like woeful exaggeration. I really don't know about this game.
Will be back after breakfast.
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Alright, I don't think I can actually read this thing again. I keep trying, but my eyes are just glazing over the words. I don't really have much more to say. I don't think BT is scum. I'll switch to Dan if I have to, but I like my vote where it is.
Dorian, are you seriously trying to pass your claim off as a silly gambit? >_> Aren't you the one that said you didn't like gambits and reaction fishing because they made people hard to read? Explanation on Capth isn't really satisfying. I don't see a reason to move my vote.
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Actually, I suppose I should be more specific.
You outed your role and increased your chances of being recruited into a cult if there is one, when you didn't have to warn town about a cult because of your role name (it'd be obvious once you flipped because of the role name), when you had decided to hide your role because you thought it was important enough, all because you wanted to fish for reactions? A strategy you said in past games is generally bad?
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Uh, I don't think he's trying to pass his claim off as an attempt to fish for reactions, but I have to frown at the way he frames all his reads after the fact in terms of reactions to his claim, where reads in this case means short blurbs on what everyone did. And as far as I can tell, he's voting Dan for...instantly believing his claim and ignoring what he thought was a third-party anti-cult vig? Dorian, pray tell me how this is scummy beyond your sweeping claim that all claimed third parties should die ASAP.
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Also, for those people who missed it the first time, I think Dorian is possibly telling the truth about being an anti-cult vig. This does not clear him of being scum by any means; the perfect way to balance a scum vig is to let them not hit any town (cough cough). But really, the claim is not why I'm all for lynching him. Look at his...content. Or lack of it, rather.
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Sorry that it took so long but the point of provoking reactions to let things evolve on there on to see what you get out of it. Maybe I waited too long but I blame my bad timing for it.^^;
He said that. How else am I supposed to interpret it?
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Going down the list...the entire ActionDan fiasco is stupid. Dan is being reactionary and letting his anger at the voters on his wagon get the better of him. I think he's town, but he needs to start trying to understand why people might be voting him. I don't have any problems with the voters on the Dan wagon except for Dorian, who just jumped on opportunistically.
Cut: Well if that's what he really means then the entire thing just smells worse imo.
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DrRawr posting something relevant would be, like, totally cool and SHIZUNAS, you know?
i like shizuhas....
That thing between ihavenoname and lady lambdadelta more or less sounds like desperate scum to me. Saying hes scum hunting and not asking any questions or furthering his case on bob.
I felt Serela was scummy and went looking for potential reasons. That was one of the ones I came up with, which was also a reason why I may be getting a false positive.
really? so rather then actually make a case or anything you come up with some imaginary reason for scumserela? Also ihavenoname hasnt even mentioned ANY of serela with that back and forth earlier. Also for those who cant remember said serela was scummy because of px....
Dorian and Dan have acted similarly all game, active lurking their way through. However, Dan appears to have a case to put together making him slightly more town to me. I'm interested to see how the rest of it looks, Dormio is admittedly a pretty null read from me.
why dorian over dan? you seemed more confident (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811845.html#msg811845) in scumdan when you said it.
Your scumhunting involves agreeing people and voting lurkers, which is what. Your own cases are either weak or never followed up on.
Dorian and omba are bothering the futo out of me. Dorian passing people off as town because of there slight reactions of his claim. Omba for still going "x is just being x".
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posting more reads later
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I had a pretty strong town read on Serela early in the game, but like rawr, he's done almost nothing after the explosion and is hanging on to a stale Affinity vote based on reasons that don't even apply anymore. Also want to hear from Serela how Dan and BT are scummy besides AAAAAAAAA. Serela is still townier than rawr, but both of them need to check in with recent events.
BT going wheee LLD and Chaore are both scum is ??? and he needs to explain exactly what he's trying to convey by his vote. I don't think he's scum though, due to his logic on other issues flowing well with my thoughts.
I think Omba and Chaore are both really stretching the BT case, but I can't find anything horribly wrong in those silly back and forths. Both pretty null to me and deserving of a reread; wouldn't want to see either of them lynched today.
Bob claims he's conservative with his vote, but I looked through his past games, and he was far more willing to take stances and place down a bloody vote, especially since in any other game Day 1 would have been over by now. I'm not sure how much of this is uncertain town or uncertain scum, but I'm currently leaning towards the latter.
I have no name is spastic and impossible to read.
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Cut by rawr, which invalidates my point on him, but I eagerly await his other reads. ^_^/
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@Conq: Your explanation seems fine, though sort of late, but what do you think of Dan in relation to Dorian now? What has Dan 'produced of note' so far when compared to Dorian, if you think that Dorian's lack of reads on anyone else is the main thing against him? Who are your secondary scumreads?
I don't buy Dan's cases on Dormio and LLD, but they seem valid to me in that they're weak cases born out of a reaction to other weak cases that come straight out of box silliness. tl;dr people are being AH, WHIP ME MORE LOUISE~. I'm not sure how to describe Dorian's case other than it reads more like scum trying to make a case and failing rather than town whose reads are being blinded by anger.
<Last Edibled by Shadoweh at xx:xx:xx>
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Hi I'm here to say I absolutely despise this game.
;-;
I'm secretly hoping that Conq is cult and that he'll cult me so I don't have to share my win condition with the rest of you.
@Dorian (and I guess to K4u where applicable):
You want to have a serious post game discussion with me about how claimed ITPs should die? You are leaving out one small detail. Context. If you are an ITP that specifically trys to kill Cult (which is a big threat to the town) tell me exactly how town benifits from your death? Hmm? There are in fact rare cases where ITPs are benign and don't negatively affect town. I'm pretty sure your vote on me boils down to "when Dan thought I was an ITP, he didn't tell me to burn in a fire, thus he couldn't have had town's best interests in mind". I still don't get Kitten's deal with why she thinks my response to the claim was bad. Is it just that I didn't account for it being a red herring? Because if so, such a determination could be made on later days where inevitably one way or the other, evidence of a cult or not will turn up, and from there it would be easier to look into whether Dorian's claim was a fabrication or not. Also I was under the impression that a role like 'town anti-cult vig' would be unrecruitable.
@At whomever questioned my town read of Capt.h vs. others on my wagon
I got a town read off of Capt.h ED1 wherein he took what little there was and made the insight that Rawr was town. It was very much in line with what I was thinking and the conviction seemed genuine so I wrote off capt.h as town. I still want to punch him and strip of his 'sane' townie title because I think he's treated me like dirt.
I think BT is town. He's open-minded and nothing he's done has pinged my gut what-so-ever. I am depressed that the wagons are BT/Dan/Dorian. I'll see what I can do to work to change it.
cuts.
@Conq Dormio pulled a BAD case out of his WHOOHOO in IMP mafia on me, and I swear the DORMIONESS of this one is on the same level.
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Keep postin'
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Also @Dan. I'll just say that as town, I've had Dormio on my tail for an entire day in Path of Radiance Mafia, and town LLD as Bathory on Shiba in Graveyard Anonymafia for two days. I think you're all being AH, PUNISH ME MORE EIKI-SAMA~
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AtE much, scumskies?
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PS. Pretty sure your case on me is even more bs, scumskies.
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zzz
I swear if this mess is 100% organic town like I think it is y'all need to learn how to not piss each other off so much.
Haha, what am I thinking? Mafia players, psshh.
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I didn't even realize you thought he was third party until it was pointed out to me and I read it again. It was awful because you were expecting something that could still not happen even if he was town being completely honest. Though, I suppose you thinking he was third party makes it slightly less awful.
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Writing posts in the middle of lectures hell yeah.
Anyway, somebody tell me how all of Dan's responses haven't been rubbish and scummy.
I mean Conq even said that they're all reactionary and he's just getting angry that he has votes on him and whatnot. I dunno about you, but I think that this sort of reaction is far more likely to come from scum rather than town.
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I mean he doesn't even bother to put in the effort to address my nice bullet-pointed post.
He just goes "your case is bs and you must be scum". Like, seriously, OMGUS much mate?
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My memory may be faulty but I don't think he's really been addressing ANY of the cases on him so far.
He just yells about how angry he is and how stupid everyone that's voting him is.
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So yeah, Dan is like, totally scum and stuff.
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Also, now that someone mentioned it, where DID Serela go? ???
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Double-triple posting most town etc.
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Serela is apparently sick but I still want him to have an actual opinion on current stuff, totes.
I mean it's not like that Affinity vote is doing anything and I don't want Serela waltzing in at deadline to randomly throw his vote on one of the wagons without any accountability.
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I'll be ~*~honkingly~*~ honest.
I &dislike& their &insides&. These people literally don't have the capacity to step into other people's shoes. I think Dormio's style this game is like his usual town self, except his case is a Shadoweh-awful misrep of everything I've done this game. I've sent a rage-post to the mod with those exact feelings.
And I see he's chewing at the bit.
Dormio you're a %pawn from that opening where it gets taken%. And I bet you SOMETHING know it.
You know what.
##Unvote
##Vote Bob
Call it a GOSH DARN Shadoweh feeling. I POLITELY want to die. I'll address LLD more directly in a bit.
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AtE much, scumskies?
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You people need to chill out. >_>
Why Bob? I mean, it's not like he's the pinnacle of town, but I doubt we're going to flash wagon him.
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I have no problem with lynching bob
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Well, I guess that's not entirely what I meant. Eh, I vastly prefer a Dorian wagon, although I suppose I'd prefer Bob over BT or Dan.
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You people need to chill out. >_>
Why Bob? I mean, it's not like he's the pinnacle of town, but I doubt we're going to flash wagon him.
He has no presence. I haven't sensed people actively pushing Scum agendas, so I get the feeling scum is hanging back a bit, and Bob fits the bill. This is 100% gut.
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Two, You Stick Your Vote In That Thirteenth Votecount
Affinity (1): Serela
Action Dan (4): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h, Dorian G.
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
BT (3): Chaore, Omba, Affinity
Dorian G. (3): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u
Chaore: (1): BT
Mr. Bob (1): Action Dan
Dormio (0):
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Conqueror (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 16 hours remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
REMEMBER, NO MAJORITY = RANDOM LYNCH
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
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Everyone has gone stubborn! Everyone has gone nuttso!
I think I'll retract my scumread on Conq; all of a sudden. With the last flurry of posts, I (finally) have a clear idea on what he thinks of the situation right now (e.g the Dan-Dorian split) and why he wants Dorian lynched above everyone else. Him being a beacon of sanity in this madness helps too.
I still find it hard to believe that Dorian would retract his scumread on capt.h if he were scum, when he could have held onto it to prevent being exposed like that. However, I'll have to agree with the rest that his reaction-based Dan vote, while being consistent with his so-called 'gambit', is terrible and negates the above opinion I had on him completely. His psuedo-reads on others (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812239.html#msg812239), which actually say a whole lot of nothing, is also terrible. There's also this detachment from the game with his whole reaction changing, and that's pretty evident of minimizing connections with scumbuddies (if he's scum). I know this is a 180 from my previous opinion on him, but his previous two posts negated everything I found townie about him, namely his original capt.h case and his retract (which is now masked as a 'gambit' + token opinions).
##Unvote
##Vote: Dorian
Out of all the other pairs of hate, Dormio-Dan is still a pile of foolishness, though I think Dan's sudden turnaround in thinking that Dormio is town and changing to Bob to be slightly praise-worthy, and that Dormio's inanely stubborn tunnel-vision (he's not reading the many posts on why his case is bad) is indicative of town. BT-Chaore is also feeling to be very stupid, but while I can at least agree with some facets of Chaore's case on BT (through the LLD vote for example), I don't think BT's switch to Chaore is town-minded, and rather, indicative of a personal feud. Still not comfortable with his LLD vote in the middle of the day, and his Chaore vote makes me doubt his priorities in general. As of now, however, Bob, Serela, rawr, and to some extent, Nameless capt.h, are all liabilities to town and are more or less unreadable. It all feels like a very ridiculous crapshooty game.
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Really?
I have town reads on Bob, Serela, and Rawr for various reasons. Though I haven't been able to make heads or tails of nameless yet.
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not asking any questions or furthering his case on bob.
There was nothing to further the case. I addressed everything Bob said. I suppose I could have asked questions, but I couldn't think of anything to ask.
so rather then actually make a case or anything you come up with some imaginary reason for scumserela? Also ihavenoname hasnt even mentioned ANY of serela with that back and forth earlier. Also for those who cant remember said serela was scummy because of px....
I said Serela seemed scummy, but I had no real reason to think so and so I posted a few reasons of why I may have been thinking that. Serela was entirely done on gut, the "reasons" were my speculating as to why I thought that. I've been over this already.
why dorian over dan?
Because Dan didn't roleclaim. I've been over why the roleclaim does sit right with me from this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812128.html#msg812128) onward.
you seemed more confident (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811845.html#msg811845) in scumdan when you said it.
LLD requested 1 sentence. I gave one, followed by an addendum. Dorian is also being worse than Dan at the moment, because of the claim.
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So, rawr, any questions for me I haven't already addressed earlier in the thread?
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I'll address LLD more directly in a bit.
Actually Sleep for a few hours I will.
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(he's not reading the many posts on why his case is bad)
I'm not getting this. Can someone why my case is bad to me?
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It's like every time I think I'm on the ball it's just some SILLY other thing making me feel reassured.
I need to reread. Again.
@Above
It's because most of the things on your list aren't necessarily scummy. Or MAY be scummy but lack examples since they're case-by-case.
You're also accusing me of saying your Dan case is bad --> scummy! although I'm not even the only one doing this. ?_?
Off to rereading.
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Oh yeah, one more thing.
K4U, his case is "he did this but he ACTUALLY did THAT" in its entirety. I don't even know how to start replying to that.
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Three, Then You Open The Fourteenth Votecount!
Affinity (1): Serela
Action Dan (4): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h, Dorian G.
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
BT (2): Chaore, Omba
Dorian G. (4): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity
Chaore: (1): BT
Mr. Bob (1): Action Dan
Dormio (0):
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Conqueror (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 9 hours remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
REMEMBER, NO MAJORITY = RANDOM LYNCH
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
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So.
The wagons are still bad.
Dorian is lazy, not confident town and Dan is lazy, confused town. People on their wagons are either scum or lazy / misled town.
9 hours left to form a decent counterwagon.
LLD is scum. Looking back my case on Chaore is as opinionated and objective as his case on me so I pretty much delegate it to gut. Would still lynch.
##Unvote
##Vote LLD
Serela is lurking, would honestly not mind a lynch at this point. I don't know why but I'm getting the same coasting vibes from IHNN, would not mind his lynch either.
Point is a counterwagon needs to happen since at least half the town is tunneling on a guy w/ bad or lacking cases (I'm referring to pretty much every non-scum on the Dan and Dorian wagons) and due to this a townie is probably going to get lynched today.
To get your attention:
Dormio, capt.h, Dorian G., Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity
I literally cannot remember even one of you with a combination of both a semi-convincing case and matching conviction behind it.
So, counterwagon please.
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ok, back from my classes/ group meetings/crashing after being awake 24+ hours.
I'm not trying to coast, honestly I would have given some input 14 hours ago but I was physically and mentally drained. Day ends in what, 8 hours? I should be around then but I have a group project due tomorrow that we need to work on today, so depending on when we do that I'll either be around or missing at the day's end. Stinks, but hey, that's life.
Counterwagon off Dorian/Dan: I still would like to see Mr. Bob lynched, and if my case didn't convince you then there's nothing I can do to convince you because I can't think of anything to add to my case on him. There was conviction behind my vote on him as well, I switched off because I realized (at the time) no one else agreed he was scummy.
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Been self destructing a lot of my thoughts because I can see it either way.
Therefore, I didn't really have much to post.
So I do apologize for adding needless frustration and looking like I'm not playing. Truly.
@Omba: Re: NoName vs LLD: Unfortunately that also means they could be townies (but don't know it).
Are people still clearing Rawr for early D1 when he was asking for the box?
Could just be Rawr curious about the box, and asking to have it for laughs.
(Very off-chance but is there such a thing as bomb disposal role in mafia?)
Could be scum wanting the shiny to distract and confuse town (scum would know who to pass it to).
Clearing Rawr off of a null shouldn't be happening.
I'm with K4 and Conq in that Dorian shouldn't have outed the role for reactions.
It opens him up to (possible) TP reprecussions, and it's hard to prove because (as Dorian himself says) there are situations where there may not be results.
This can potentially allow Dorian to lie, a lot.
But also as Chaore said, town can be weird.
I'm also trusting Affinity in his judgement of the BT-Chaore debacle.
Specifically setting my alarm to not sleep past hammer.
Cut by BT: I don't disagree with an LLD lynch; her case begins with nailing Dan for bad plays, then allows others to elaborate on the case.
I see her (and Serela's and Dormio's) points, but isn't lynching someone for bad play, bad play? If it's on purpose, that's scummy.
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If you're going to vote sometime today, start now.
IHNN, I read your Bob case from way back again and I'm not seeing anything aside from "I dislike him because he wants to do stuff with the box I don't agree with and he's posting stuff I can see on my own". The first point is ?_? and does the second point still stand currently?
Who would you lynch aside from Dorian and Bob? I recall you said you thought Dan was scum but now you're wishy-washy.
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As of his most recent post he's cleared himself a bit, the early play still sticks out in my mind but at least he's playing now.
The other stuff I said about Bob was his lack of a vote, but considering he hasn't voted at all yet I'm beginning to think there's a role-related reason for it. The first reason you gave was 'that I don't agree with it', but I thought what he wanted to do with it was scummy.
Dan was townie then scummy then townie and so my reaction to that is now ??? because I don't know what to think.
Aside from Dorian and Bob, everyone else is either town or could go either way.
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Right, so.
Lynches that are happening today: Dan.
Scum are trying desperately to throw their votes around and confuse the town to ensure a random lynch (which by the by is both silly and scum sided).
A random lynch is the WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME FOR THE TOWN.
So all townies should band together under the Lambdadelta flag, and lynch Dan.
Don't make me say it in Red.
BTW, Re: People voting BT: I promise you he won't go ignored if you lynch Dan today. He needs to die.
Re: People lynching Bob: Stop that nonsense. He's for the vigs to handle, and if there are no vigs, THEN we lynch him. But we're lynching obvscum Dan over him today.
Re: People lynching Dorian: Stop that right now.
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So.
The wagons are still bad.
Dorian is lazy, not confident town and Dan is lazy, confused town. People on their wagons are either scum or lazy / misled town.
9 hours left to form a decent counterwagon.
LLD is scum. Looking back my case on Chaore is as opinionated and objective as his case on me so I pretty much delegate it to gut. Would still lynch.
##Unvote
##Vote LLD
Serela is lurking, would honestly not mind a lynch at this point. I don't know why but I'm getting the same coasting vibes from IHNN, would not mind his lynch either.
Point is a counterwagon needs to happen since at least half the town is tunneling on a guy w/ bad or lacking cases (I'm referring to pretty much every non-scum on the Dan and Dorian wagons) and due to this a townie is probably going to get lynched today.
To get your attention:
Dormio, capt.h, Dorian G., Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity
I literally cannot remember even one of you with a combination of both a semi-convincing case and matching conviction behind it.
So, counterwagon please.
This is a scum claim, by the by. Trying to start a new wagon with 9 hours left is tantamount to saying "Let's see if I can't get that Random Lynch to happen!?!!?!"
Scum.
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LAST THING:
When have I ever suggested lynching someone for bad play?
The people who need to die for bad play are getting shot by any vigs that exist, See: Bob.
Dan is being lynched for SCUMMY play.
This misrepresentation of my case on Dan is being created by scum to avoid a crippling Day 1 scum lynch.
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Uh, no.
A lynch can and will happen because half the players aren't even sure about their votes. I'll start a new wagon if I think all the wagons are on town, especially if a different lynch CAN happen.
Dan is being lynched for bad play, which people are spinning as scummy play.
Your case in specific is horrible and spins circumstantial stuff into scumtells.
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Uh, no.
A lynch can and will happen because half the players aren't even sure about their votes. I'll start a new wagon if I think all the wagons are on town, especially if a different lynch CAN happen.
Dan is being lynched for bad play, which people are spinning as scummy play.
Your case in specific is horrible and spins circumstantial stuff into scumtells.
Substantiate your claim. Now.
Show me exactly where he is being lynched for Bad Play.
Show me what points I have provided that are Bad Play instead of Scummy Play.
Because right now you're grasping at air, making marginal claims that are basically false, but you refuse to provide the evidence for people to prove them false.
In other words, you're trying to engage in a pissing match. I won't do it. Substantiate your claims or die.
Also: You're saying you have SOLID IMMUTABLE town reads on Bob, Affinity, Dan, Dorian, and IHNN?
PAAAAAAAANCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKES
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I never mentioned SOLID IMMUTABLE town reads.
Dan and Dorian are SOLID IMMUTABLE town.
Bob and Affinity are town.
I expressed dislike of IHNN a few hours ago but the recent exchange is making me feel better about him.
Substantiating in a bit.
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Let's start with the very best.
#289 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811799.html#msg811799)
However, your misguided actions have done well in netting me some nice reads. Dan is pretty much conf. scum for deciding that I was a scum read mere minutes after BT votes me. He couldn't express this read earlier because....? There's no good answer to that question. Dan in pretty scum.
I'll say it again - this comes from nowhere. Dan was away, Dan comes back with a LLD scum read an hour after I post my vote, this is OBVIOUSLY the conclusion town should jump to. And by that, I see no way you are town and jumped to this conclusion at the same time. Waaay too much exaggeration.
Also, that Dormio vote is really off base considering he has BARELY TALKED ABOUT DORMIO EITHER. I honestly don't know where Dan is getting his reads from, except that I do.
Dan is scum.
Let's assume you meant that Dan is OMGUSing. This is bad play at worst. Either way, you tag this along in a way that screams "I need to make my case better".
And that's it.
Yeah.
Probably lacking in words now.
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And if you're even going to argue that this was merely an add-on to your EEEED1 case, that one was nitpicky at best looking back. "His RVS vote is bad because STATISTICS and HOLY DAMN HE SAID HE'S NERVOUS FOR NO REASON, plus he said stuff about the box that other people said later and obviously only Dan is guilty of this."
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Probably lacking in words now.
If you have more to say say it.
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Nice Misrepresentation, BT.
No, that isn't saying Dan is OMGUSing. It's saying he's not getting his reads organically, like a townie should.
He's manufacturing them. Shipping them in.
In other words, he's not hunting scum because he IS scum. That is what that post is saying.
Which, BY THE BY, is a SCUM PLAY and not a BAD PLAY.
So you're disproven on one account. Would you like to try again? I mean, all you're doing is locking up your status as scum.
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Show me what points I have provided that are Bad Play instead of Scummy Play.
Your points are plain bad. Now for people that actually do this:
#398 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812266.html#msg812266)
Well, not my fault if you don't find the following to be scummy.
- Not doing any scumhunting early game, content to provide two town reads and leave it at that whilst talking about the box. Note that he didn't even talk about the box much, though that may be due to a lack of activity in general.
- A lack of activity in general.
- Expressing willingness to kill Affinity for no reason.
- Later trying to deny that this ever happened.
- OMGUS voting myself and suspecting LLD for the same reason.
- Using the fact that I didn't have a case three hours into the game as a legitimate point against me.
- Using this very same point as a reason to defend himself.
- Not to mention the thing that someone brought up about how I'm scum for voting him over the whole Affinity thing but the others aren't.
"Not scumhunting" is the only valid point here and I have yet to see why this makes dan Scum!Dan in particular and not LazyMisguided!Dan.
Everything else is "he did something dumb = he did something scummy" fsr.
#Everywhere (capt.h)
The things that stand out are "OMGUS", which again seems more like bad play, and "he's lurking", which is actually the only point I am completely fine with out of everything in this thread. Probably the best case out of this clusterfuck.
@LLDcut: If you want to EXPLAIN why they're manufactured, do so now. You're the one that wanted me to substantiate, no?
I'll try and parse Dorian's case again.
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UnyAAAAAAA
BOB, right now your vote is telling me that you think RANDOM CHANCE is the best way to determine the lynch. PUT YOU CANDYFLOSSING VOTE DOWN.
BT - Dan is scum because first he opens with a fairly awful start of day 1, and then he spends the latter part of the day voting Dormio because Dormio voted him for being awful 3 hours into day 1, while trying to justify how Dormio should have known his awfulness was townie awfulness. His cases have been purely defensive, and he barely ever says anything about people that aren't voting him. Even his Bob case (his current vote) seems to be gut rather than justified, and frankly Bob is an easy vote park because it doesn't require justification >_>
Although I would like to know why he isn't voting Dorian in Not Me Over Me.
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I do believe I explained why they were manufactured.
The copying and buddying of your poor case, followed by the out of nowhere unsubstantiated and misguided "cases" on me and Dorian are enough for me to be certain he manufactured them as a method of survival rather than out of actual scumhunting.
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In other words, you're just stretching now BT. You've got absolutely nothing.
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...
...
>.>
I'm going to reread this one last time.
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BT, what are you talking about? I'm pretty happy with my vote right now. I was a little unsure right after the claim because I admit that anti-cult vig is a weird thing for scum to claim, but all the circumstances surrounding it and all the circumstances regarding everything else he's done points to scum. I don't think I've been this confident with a case on D1 in quite a long time. I don't buy that as town he would out his role like that, increase the odds of getting recruited if there is a cult, just for reaction fishing, which he has said is a bad strategy in the past. It doesn't smell right.
Thus I find him more likely to flip scum than Dan.
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Okay, no.
Those cases actually made me look back and read his posts.
I actually read them TWICE.
But I do NOT see MethodofSurvival!Dan AT ALL.
He clearly states what he thinks. I don't see anything artificial or something that shouldn't have been there. He's town.
K4U, what happens if the Dan wagon outnumbers the Dorian wagon?
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I'll be here before the deadline. I can switch if I absolutely have to.
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Hm, yeah, thinking...
LLD, if you're still here can you restate the case on Dan? Can you also state why scum!Dan would be more willing to let a third party live than town!Dan? Especially when that person is a viable counterwagon?
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scratch the restate the case part. I'm dumb and can't read. Would still like an an answer to the second question though.
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I'm here. I'm also busy working on a P-set due at 4pm EST today. This looks to correspond to when deadline hits.
BT is town. Holy shit.
LLD you have absolutely no reason for insinuating that BT is scum over thinking that he's simply a concerned townie. Do you really think scum BT would work this hard to defend Scum!me without pushing Dorian wagon?
Scum are trying desperately to throw their votes around and confuse the town to ensure a random lynch (which by the by is both silly and scum sided).
A random lynch is the WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME FOR THE TOWN.
This is the type of fearmongering that Shadoweh/UK Hydra employed D1 of graveyard mafia. If you really wanted me to die you'd reinterate reasons why I'm a better lynch over the others instead of saying "stop voting that guy"
Bob's post is non-commital. He didn't leave a hint about voting either me or Dorian if he had to. And it's distressing that he said he's up for a LLD lynch without a vote.
Capt.h I will strangle you.
- Dan is scum because first he opens with a fairly awful start of day 1, and then he spends the latter part of the day voting Dormio because Dormio voted him for being awful 3 hours into day 1, while trying to justify how Dormio should have known his awfulness was townie awfulness.
I hate you.
His cases have been purely defensive, and he barely ever says anything about people that aren't voting him.
I'll grant you there is truth in this. some truth. I've mentioned people other than those on my wagon about as much as you have. I'm not sure why you are giving me flak over this when I've spent as much time defending myself as others have spent their time attacking me.
I would still be shocked if Dorian made up that claim by himself as an ITP of any kind. If Dorian scum I'm sure that his buddies made it up, but that exact claim if fake would have had to be inspired by someone experienced and who most probably lurks MS. The only people who actually do that is LLD, Conq, K4U, and me to my knowledge. I'm unconvinced a buddy would limit themselves like that.
##Unvote
##Vote LLD
I'm gonna try for this. Omba and Chaore and serela need to update their opinions.
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Dan, proof of role is not proof of alignment. Even though "proof" isn't the right term here I think the idea behind the statement applies here. I think it's entirely possible he could be an anti-cult vig, it just doesn't matter if he is or not.
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Like I said earlier, I don't see how it's impossible for there to be a Mafia Anti-Cult Vigilante. I have to go to class. I'll be back before deadline.
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BTW dan could you claim? being one of the main wagons and 4hours left....
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One more note before class. I just hope traffic and parking's good so I'm not late. :V
What I'm saying is ignore the claim itself. It's null. Look at the circumstances surrounding the claim and everything else he's done all day. I think I've explained why it's bad a few times, but I'd be happy to explain it again once class is done.
Okay, leaving for real this time.
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Oh shit deadline is like 4 hours
uh
hi!
Rereading and stuff D:
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Auugghhhahhh as soon as the bomb didn't blow up this turned into normal boring suck D1, except A DAY LONGER THEN NORMAL AAAAAA no wonder I started lurking after that
well plus I got sick but
I should probably get back to actually reading come to think of it
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K4U, I'll assume the third party of which you speak is Dorian.
Dorian is an anti-cult vig as he claims. The mafia want him alive simply because the cult is a bigger threat to the mafia than it is to the town.
One town member gets recruited does not cripple town.
One scum member gets recruited, cripples scum immensely, since that scum can tell everyone who all the other ones are.
So Dan!scum has a lot of motivation to let Dorian the Cult Vig live to see another day. Infact, I don't see ANY REASON for anyone who believes Dorian's claim to be voting Dorian right now.
-
Oh look, I answered Dan's question with that post too.
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BTW dan could you claim? being one of the main wagons and 4hours left....
I'd rather not if I don't have to. I can tell you my claim is pretty townie (no self-govern powers this time). If more people vote me, I'll claim.
@K4u I understand even though that the mechanics seem farfetched. Usually scum NK whatever they want. There'd have to be a rule saying that cult are immune to NKs unless targeted by the 'anit-cult' vig, and for balance reasons there couldnt be a normal NK with a cult-vig shot too.
I will vote Dorian if I have to.
The people voting Dorian think he's scum, not an ITP LLD.
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Dan, how can you determine and speak for all the voters on the Dorian wagon?
Further, Serial Killers are a flavor of scum, so I guess you're kinda right even though your overall is wrong.
You should probably claim, Dan.
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Again, if I recieve more votes, I'll claim.
I think Kitten thinks Dorian is scum, even though earlier she said her role heavily implied SK or survivor.
I was under the impression Affinity and Conq think he's scum also. I forgot what IHNN thinks besides 'claim was bad'. They can correct me.
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I forgot what IHNN thinks besides 'claim was bad'.
No matter how I look at the reasoning behind the claim, it seemed designed for chaos/stalling, chaos hurts town, stagnation hurts town through lack of information, therefore I think Dorian is not town. So yes, my reasoning does mostly come down to the claim, but IMO negative attention* is scummier than no attention, at least D1.
Dorian, can you tell us why you decided to claim with only 2 votes?
*Not the right word to use here, but I can't think of a better one
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BTW dan could you claim? being one of the main wagons and 4hours left....
BTW, why are you asking me to claim when you said earlier you were ok with an LLD lynch. What are you thinking right now?
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when did i say i was ok with lld lynch?
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when did i say i was ok with lld lynch?
I want this question answered, Dan.
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I have no problem with lynching bob
Oh im retarded.
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:V
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mafoa and problem sets. they dont go together.
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I think Dr.Rawr looks pretty funky but I'm just going to chalk that up to Rawr being Rawr right now.
Affinity is still totes scummy mcscumpants because
A.Votes me over putting words into my mouth and twisting what I did say into making it contract itself and voting me over the contradiction that doesn't exist
B.His response (where he keeps voting me), I can barely make heads or tails of in a manner that actually makes good logic, even after he explained the LAL point.
C. ...I don't like his later posts, but I don't know how to explain it :/ Bleh.
D.Oh wait Affinity is voting Dorian? Yeah, that's p.bad. His vote also turns the counts to 4 v 4; it's the one that actually starts making Dorian a serious lynch competitor with Dan, and this is so bad, I don't even.
Dormio and Dan are weird. I'm... not sure how I feel about them anymore past "weird" though. While I don't explicitly object to the Dan wagon... I'm not sure. Bahh.
Bob is apparently being Bob and I have no idea what I'm supposed to make of him, at all. I don't know what to think of IHNN either, except some of his logic (like his reasonings for voting Dorian) are... I can't agree with them in the slightest and I think they're just ridiculous. I'd rather lynch him over Dan, I think, but. Well, maybe not. Well... I don't know!
Nevermind, LLD/IHNN spat feels sort of town/town.
Capt.h IMO is town, umm all I can say about BT is he doesn't feel like how he usually feels but I don't know past that ???
This post is around 500 words so I'm cutting off the latter half for after someone else posts.
-
post
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Also Shadoweh sorry we found a breaking strategy in your wordcount limit :V
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Rawr. Deadline in 3. Who will it be?
This is silly. Dorian is playing horribly and pretty much against his own WC (his jump on Dan's wagon screams 'but I want to stay aliiiiiive') but I still find it implausible that he is not town. Mostly due to the claim but also due to how he's playing like very very silly town instead of scum.
It's gotten to the point that I'm starting to consider a random lynch over this trainwreck.
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##Unvote
##Vote: Dan
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cut
and dan because of claim
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Rawr. Deadline in 3. Who will it be?
This is silly. Dorian is playing horribly and pretty much against his own WC (his jump on Dan's wagon screams 'but I want to stay aliiiiiive') but I still find it implausible that he is not town. Mostly due to the claim but also due to how he's playing like very very silly town instead of scum.
It's gotten to the point that I'm starting to consider a random lynch over this trainwreck.
Remember when I said your vote on me was designed to get the town to result in a random lynch?
And remember when I said Random Lynch was the absolute WORST outcome for town?
Yeah, you need to die so badly.
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I do remember! And no, I'm not actually pushing for a random lynch, only pointing out how I feel like this lynch has a 0/15 chance of catching scum. Rather than, say, a 3/15 or 4/15 chance. Seriously. -_-
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I'm Doing Y'alls a Favour With A Fifteenth Votecount!
Affinity (1): Serela
Action Dan (5): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h, Dorian G., Dr. Rawr
I have no name (0):
BT (2): Chaore, Omba
Dorian G. (4): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity
Chaore: (0):
Mr. Bob (0):
Dormio (0):
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Conqueror (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (2): BT, Action Dan
Not voting: Mr. Bob
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 3 hours remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
REMEMBER, NO MAJORITY = RANDOM LYNCH
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
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I do remember! And no, I'm not actually pushing for a random lynch, only pointing out how I feel like this lynch has a 0/15 chance of catching scum. Rather than, say, a 3/15 or 4/15 chance. Seriously. -_-
So you're going to completely ignore the fact that a Random Lynch provides potentially NO reads, and is thus almost assuredly inferior?
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I would still very much prefer a BT lynch over a Dan lynch.
That said, I would much rather lynch Dan than Dorian and very much rather lynch someone we decide on than to rely on Tewi.
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
BT: There's an 0% chance of hitting scum if a) you're about to get lynched and your role pm says you're town b) the mod has confirmed the player as being town. That's it.
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Cuts:LLD, haven't most of the people voting Dorian explicitly said they think Dorian is scum? So... :c Regardless, I agree that it's weird to think that scum would have both the regular NK -and- an additional Anti-Cult NK. ...why, why, is there a growing wagon on Dorian again?
The disappointing thing is that other then the claim, some of the Dorian votes do actually make sense. Except that they're being silly, due to said claim. Regardless of the claim, I think Dorian is just being silly, and I wouldn't be too interested in voting him, but with the claim it's just dear goodness there's a wagon on him?
Okay where am I going with this post again? I really don't remember, this is a LONG AS FUCK D1 to reread dear JESUS it's longer then many entire games have been the fuuuck.
Between Dan and Dorian? It gives off a feel of the Dorian case being pushed as a counterwagon to Dan, jumping on him for awkwardness and low play in addition to his awkward claim timing, making him an easy target to push for all his weirdness. I highly doubt scum would have claimed right away like he did, and I highly doubt scum would actually have a power like that in addition to their normal nk, and I also doubt he's lying.
##Unvote ##Vote ActionDan
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...okay nevermind it IS sort of unsettling how insanely quick Dan went from 4 votes to L-1 but I still can't take the Dorian wagon seriously, at ALL, so ah well :c
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##Unvote
Want to see Dan claim before someone derphammers him.
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It's gotten to the point that I'm starting to consider a random lynch over this trainwreck.
I've been thinking the same way for the last 2 pages.
Alright I wanted to claim anyway.
I'm a Backup Watcher. "Town Assistant Watcher" (although I'm leaving out one word in the quotes that gives away important mechanics of the role [I have the potential to become a watcher, but not in the usuall way]). Shadoweh obviously has a thing for reality Tv because my flavor is based around a boxing show. (or maybe she likes sweaty men)
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Cutting Shadoweh's Post With The Fifteenth Votecount!
Affinity (0):
Action Dan (7): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h, Dorian G., Dr. Rawr, Omba, Serela
I have no name (0):
BT (1): Chaore
Dorian G. (4): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity
Chaore: (0):
Mr. Bob (0):
Dormio (0):
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Conqueror (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (2): BT, Action Dan
Not voting: Mr. Bob
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
ActionDan is at L-1
There are 3 hours remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
REMEMBER, NO MAJORITY = RANDOM LYNCH
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
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and yeah Random Lynch is really horrible unless it actually hit scum, which is not to be hoped for. Or if it at least hit one of the main wagons in which case we might as well have just lynched the wagon.
...Dan if you claim the mechanics of your role I might consider switching to Dorian.
##Unvote
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Actually nevermind he's just town.
##Vote Dorian
I can't believe I'm doing this.
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Btw, watcher, don't out yourself. (even tho it would doubly help me)
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Backup Watcher.
...
I don't even know anymore.
Rereading for the nth time this day.
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That claim changes nothing for me in the way of wanting him dead.
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##unvote
not claiming watcher but i think the claim is legit
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I think that I start to understand PX now, this ?I have nothing to lose so I do whatever I want? is way more amusing than staring at the game for hours, getting frustrated about it.^^ However ?
##unvote
My (drunken) rage case on Dan is silly and my ration fishing was a awful, and yes Kitten is at last half right with saying that I hate gambits like that. I can also say that I hate when people go against their own principles, what make it even worse. But how she concluded that I'm therefore scum, when all I had to do would be voteparck on a lurker or construct a case out of bad play, is earnestly beyond me.
I explain why I don't like a Dan lynch later, well when I get the time to do so.
But first ?
##Vote: Lady Lambdadelta
Your Dan case is indeed founded on ?bad play? and not ?scum play?, your he ?constructed reads? point is sheer wine and not provable.
Your Dan tunnel also disguise that you flip-flopping your reads like hell, fist it me after Dan then IHNN got worse and finely BT took the place as your second priority. Is it just me or are you having problems with setting up your (miss)lynch chain?
Your defending me is clear distancing from a wagon you know will flip town and your attempt to turn me in to a ITP is just to let yourself a reason open to vote me again at a later point.
Also Dan, do me a favor and don't claim.
Sorry for being barely cohered but I'm running out of time, as always.
PS: Catching up now. Also, I'll be around for deadline to secure a lynch (even my own if I have to)
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Dan you said this was a town claim. ?___?
Can you add more flavor or something?
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guys no houraisan joke i think dans claim is town.
-
Even if LLD isn't a scumread for me (I have to start doing non-mafia things now so I can't reread her again, so far I've been "aaaaa I don't know how LLD plays so I don't know whether this sort of play from her is") a null read is >>> then a Dorian lynch, and she's also the only non-Dan/Dorian wagon
##Unvote ##Vote LLD
And yeah Dan's claim is seriously town. (No I'm not a watcher.)
-
Am I missing something here because his claim is just... bizarre.
Almost as bizarre as you and Rawr backing up so easily.
-
MAYBE ITS BECAUSE OF MY ROLE? THATS NOT WATCHER
-
Btw that Dan claim is a) not provable without him telling us how it works and more importantly b) doesn't tell us anything about his alignment.
If you're town and telling us how you get to become Watcher would reveal something about the current Watcher, you should of course say nothing about it. Of course that also means that claim works pretty well as a fakeclaim, so.
--cut by people voting... LLD?! AAAAAHHHH---
-
I never thought I'd say that Omba was being moe, but.
-
waiting on mod to see what I can say for flavor.
The mechanics of my role doesn't reveal any info about who the watcher is.
Actually I'll just claim it. To become a watcher I first need to locate the watcher (if it exists, I asked the mod but they made no guarantees) . I'm looking for a coach.
-
Omba what did you think of LLD anyway?
-
calling rawr as double backup watcher.
What is this wagon forming on LLD I don't even WHY DOES IT EXIST
Seriously, she's town, albeit very single-minded 'gotta get Dan dead' town.
-cut by Serela & Dan-
Dan, what do you mean by 'locate'? I'm assuming you get 1 try per night/day, and if correct you can use the watcher ability. If I'm wrong can you correct me on that?
-
Also Chaore and Bob. thoughts. anything? (same goes to capt.h)
@IHNN you are correct.
-
Omba what did you think of LLD anyway?
TOWN. FFS, don't lynch her.
-
Ok then who would you lynch?
-
Dorian claimed his name etc. so I don't see why you're special.
Agh I'm really in the mood to trash my read due to the fakeclaim vibes I'm getting from that but afasadfasdfas I don't know
-
Dan:
From the people that stand a chance of getting lynched today,
BT >>>> Dan >>>> Dorian >>>>> LLD >> random lynch
BT most likely won't be the lynch for today, so it's you.
-
Also goddamn I've barely worked on my P-set.
Also more flavor since the mod isn't getting back to me about what's ok to quote.
I'm Sergio Mora, the latin snake, I was the winner of the contender.
Also since I claimed everything my true role name is 'town searching assistant watcher'
-
Well then.
##Vote ActionDan
-
Nevermind, I thought Dan was definitely town at first, but after he claimed the specifics behind his role I got sketchy (That was not ANY of the things I thought he was)... and that role name is weird as well :/
I'm not so sure anymore.
It's starting to get into the "too weird to be true category." Like when K4U did that Vote Thief claim forever ago.
There's a list of things I can find that's realllly weird about that claim.
##Unvote ##Vote ActionDan
-
Dan is at L-2 right now I think.
-
L-3 actually, you, Omba, rawr and Dorian unvoted but you and Omba jumped back on, making 2 votes less than L-1
Unless I missed something.
THIS GAME NEEDS MORE VOTECOUNTS
-
Btw, Rawr, if you have the exact same role I do as IHNN suggested which is a real possibly considering how weak this role is, I suggest you claim that (otherwise don't do anything).
@Dormio Capt.h
Who is your 2nd choice for scum
I really wish people made sense right about now.
-
ok im backup backup town watcher, if i happen to find the backup town watcher after hes found the original watcher i can then become a town watcher
no im not claiming the exact same role its DIFFERENT.
-
Rawr, I don't see your vote anywhere.
-
Rawr:Yes, your role is different, and while Dan's might be similar don't you think his is REALLY WEIRD? :C
-
Gah I keep flopping back and forth over whether I trust Dan's claim or not.
-
because i dont know, and no one wants ihnn lynched. let me skim this shizuha
cut
ITS NOT SIMILAR EITHER!
-
Rawr, either shut up with the soft claims or completely claim your role.
You're being destructive and confusing now.
-
There's a list of things I can find that's realllly weird about that claim.
Like what.
Btw. If my lynch goes through, don't blame Omba/Serela tomorrow. Instead focus on [Chaore, LLD, Bob, Capt.h, Dormio]
Chaore, Bob, Capt.h, Dormio are all irresponsible, and LLD is power-on-through-this-lynch
-
Well...
When I think about it I guess it actually does make sense.
...:/
Well.
##unvote ##Vote LLD
Yeah I'll go for Not-Dan over Dan pretty much.
-
like im trying to futatsuiwa soft claim. you guys are assuming my role is the same or similar. Also people having been asking about it so no you stfu
-
Serela Make Up Your Honking Mind Sixteenth Votecount
Affinity (0):
Action Dan (4): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h, Omba
I have no name (0):
BT (1): Chaore
Dorian G. (4): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity
Chaore: (0):
Mr. Bob (0):
Dormio (0):
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Conqueror (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (4): BT, Action Dan, Dorian G, Serela
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dr. Rawr
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 2 hours and 3 minutes remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
REMEMBER, NO MAJORITY = RANDOM LYNCH
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
-
other flavor was apparently found from here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergio_Mora
-
Here. Reading.
-
:X
From 7-5-0 to 4-4-4 in a half hour.
Not liking the LLD wagon, I don't know what to think of Dan's claim (but at least the circumstances surrounding it make sense) but I'd be ok with his lynch too.
Of the people with votes currently on them the order I want them lynched is Dorian > Dan >>>> Chaore >>>>>>>>>>>LLD. I don't know what to think about Chaore, too little content, but town content is better than none, right?
-
Just to make it clear, I'm voting Dorian because I think he's red scum.
@LLD: Except with a cult alive it makes third party hunting possible, thus a possible distraction to town. It let's them work with the town rather than against.
I can also say that I hate when people go against their own principles, what make it even worse. But how she concluded that I'm therefore scum, when all I had to do would be voteparck on a lurker or construct a case out of bad play, is earnestly beyond me.
Except if you had done this you would have been A) the leading wagon near the deadline and B) still suspicious because people were complaining about bad content. It would have been an ineffective scum strategy.
Unimpressed with yet another shameless bandwagon hop. If her case was so bad why did you vote Dan (the wagon she was on) in the first place instead of her?
Analyzing Dan's claim now.
-
That (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812603.html#msg812603)apply to your own position too.
Lucys exchange with IHNN is quite a repetition of the Yuan vs One situation(Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia) and the exchange with BT is her usual ?paint someone red? rhetoric. Her ?those player need to get viged? list is an excuse to talk about them without giving clear opinion about them. (Hypocrisy? Maybe, lynch me for it and confirm me town baby!)
This is her scum meta as far as I can tell.
To answer this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812614.html#msg812614), it was indeed ? ration fishing? everything before the cakevig was barely readable garbage.
-
Dorian, that's entirely false. The vig list is for players who aren't scummy enough to be lynched, but are scummy/bad enough to need death.
Don't represent it as something it's not.
-
Also, Dorian voting me on Meta is hilarious.
-
To answer this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812614.html#msg812614), it was indeed ? ration fishing? everything before the cakevig was barely readable garbage.
Alright, still don't like it but now I can at least understand the reasoning.
cakevig is an awesome typo of fakevig
-
It might be silly, but I just hydra'd with the guy, and it does pretty much just seem to be a Thing That Dorian Does.
also yes, awesome whether it was a typo or not
-
Just pointing this out before I finish looking at Dan's claim. Everything he accused LLD of happened before he voted Dan. Meaning he voted with LLD on Dan even though he thinks her case is bad and she's probably scum.
-
He being Dorian
-
It might be silly, but I just hydra'd with the guy, and it does pretty much just seem to be a Thing That Dorian Does.
also yes, awesome whether it was a typo or not
I've hyrda'd with Dorian on multiple occasions.
here's my conclusion: Stop using meta to cloud your judgement and trust your gut and what you see in THIS game.
>.>
-
wait what the fuck why is the deadline in an hour i thought it was later
uh holy shit I have to go to class in like 10 minutes agh what
give me a second to try and read Dan vs. Dorian and figure out what and oh jesus christ
-
But I already thought Dorian wasn't scum for multiple reasons anyway!
-
But I already thought Dorian wasn't scum for multiple reasons anyway!
Let's hear them.
-
Can you explain those reasons Serela?
Cut: :V
-
The Votes Haven't Changed Count (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812701.html#msg812701)
There is 1 hour and 38 minutes remaining
Day End Timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
-
There's also LLD chaore.
I really have to focus on my P-set holy shit, I'm gonna get fucked if I don't finish it
-
I highly doubt scum would have claimed right away like he did, and I highly doubt scum would actually have a power like that in addition to their normal nk
I mean I could go through and pick through individual posts of his for reasons but I really shouldn't be devoting more effort to mafia then reading through current posts right now so here's a quote of claim-related stuff
that being said I'd lynch Dorian over Dan, but wagons right now are :psyduck: and DEAR FUCK WE NEED TO CONSOLIDATE :C
afk for a little bit!
-
The only problem I have with Dan's role is that it's easy to claim (it's like pseudo-VT until he finds a watcher), but considering the circumstances around it I think this claim is more likely to come from town than scum. I was starting to doubt my scum read on Dan once I realized he thought Dorian was a third party at first, but this makes me think he's probably town. Do not want to lynch.
LLD...Ugh, this wagon is so weird and basically popped out of nowhere. Not to mention Dorian is voting her for like no reason and moved there after his other bandwagon hop was called out. I think this I don't want this either.
Can we just lynch the scum please? :(
Cut and reading
-
Serela, if you think he's town and the wagon you're on is scum shouldn't you be trying to convince me to get off the one I'm on and onto the one you're on? >_>
-
I leave for 2 hours and LLD's a wagon?
Reading.
-
I've already SAID why the claim is null. He could be an anti-cult vig, he could be creating random third party fear mongering because he thought he was in trouble. The CLAIM ITSELF DOES NOT MATTER. Look at the situations surrounding the claim. Look at everything else he's done. Please explain to me why he is town.
-
@Dan: how about no
the entire wagon is awful, starting with BT hastily jumping off me to -start and 11th hour wagon-, followed by you OMGUSing, and then Dorians for I don't even, and then serela and
NOTHING SEEMS GOOD ABOUT THAT WAGON.
Okay I'm going to be LATE to class now and class will definitely end before I get back and I'm rushing like fuck, but gut right now says ##Unvote, ##Vote: Dorian
frankly I think both of them are town for different reasons, but in the end I think my read on Dorian is probably weaker because dumb claim has kind of been cut about lately and I do have to admit in hindsight, he could've panicked without talking to his scummates. On top of that, I'd probably say his play is slightly worse by the virtue of spending so much time just unvoted and waiting for a wagon to hop on. That...doesn't really seem town-minded, and I'm not entirely sure why I missed that initially actually and
it's three miniutes till class i need to go now fuck bye
-
>1 hour 10 minutes
##unvote ##vote dorian
-
I do Not Like Sweaty Men Seventeenth Votecount
Dorian G. (6): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity, Chaore, Serela
Action Dan (4): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, capt.h, Omba
Lady Lambdadelta (3): BT, Action Dan, Dorian G
I have no name (0):
BT (0):
Chaore: (0):
Mr. Bob (0):
Dormio (0):
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Conqueror (0):
Affinity (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Dr. Rawr
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There is 1 hour and 4 minutes remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
REMEMBER, NO MAJORITY = RANDOM LYNCH
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
-
Has Mr.Bob seriously never voted anyone? aggghaghghhhh
-
##Vote:Dorian
w/e i think either wagon would flip town.
-
Bob. NOW is the time to vote, seriously why the heck have you not voted yet THIS ENTIRE GAME. I know there may be a valid reason but I want the answer.
-cut by Serela basically saying the same thing-
No. No he hasn't.
-cut by rawr voting Dorian-
-
Alright, so, I don't think Dan's worse than Dorian anymore.
##Unvote
Thought I don't want to lynch Dorian yet.
-
##Unvote
-
56 minutes! Dorian G. is at L-1!
-
The only problem I have with Dan's role is that it's easy to claim (it's like pseudo-VT until he finds a watcher), but considering the circumstances around it I think this claim is more likely to come from town than scum. I was starting to doubt my scum read on Dan once I realized he thought Dorian was a third party at first, but this makes me think he's probably town. Do not want to lynch.
LLD...Ugh, this wagon is so weird and basically popped out of nowhere. Not to mention Dorian is voting her for like no reason and moved there after his other bandwagon hop was called out. I think this I don't want this either.
Can we just lynch the scum please? :(
Cut and reading
I'm really not sure what I should say anymore, meta or not her flip-flopping is scummy enough on it's own. Good my reason to vote her is weak but to say I have no reason at all is plain wrong. So Kitten is either on her medication or scum. And Conq is lurk scum. So much to my conspiracy theory.
-
You still haven't answered why you voted Dan instead of her before. Everything you accused her of happened before your Dan vote.
-
I should be leaving for my next class now, but I think I can stall for about 5 more minutes. An explanation on what changed between voting Dan and voting LLD would be nice. Preferably a quick one. Fortunately, if you're town you shouldn't have to think about the reasons too hard! :D
-
Alright, I can't wait anymore. I won't be back for the deadline and I don't see a reason to move my vote.
o/
-
14 Days Before The Eighteenth Votecount
Dorian G. (7): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity, Chaore, Serela, Dr Rawr
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, Omba
Lady Lambdadelta (3): BT, Action Dan, Dorian G
I have no name (0):
BT (0):
Chaore: (0):
Mr. Bob (0):
Dormio (0):
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Conqueror (0):
Affinity (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Capth
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There is 42 minutes remaining. Or you can hammer faster!
REMEMBER, NO MAJORITY = RANDOM LYNCH
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+1+SYWTBTT&month=4&day=4&year=2012&hour=16&min=20&sec=0&p0=1177)
-
You still haven't answered why you voted Dan instead of her before. Everything you accused her of happened before your Dan vote.
The problem was running behind the game when I post at last one or two pages. I'm always late to the party, isn't it sad.^^;
-
I figured Dorian had a revelation along the way. This p-set. I'm going to have to beg for mercy.
-
I'm seriously am wishing for a random lynch at this point.
-
I figured Dorian had a revelation along the way. This p-set. I'm going to have to beg for mercy.
If mean a town flip then I have a revelation.^^ But you think I'm going to post a lot last-Minuit reads then I have to disappoint you. The meta/gut read on Lucy was the best thing I had all game and I'm ?lazy? regardless of my alignment.
-
Alright, so Dorian threw out his role-reaction case on Dan to attack LLD for... being LLD. With less than 4 hours to deadline.
I'll be blunt, on reread I think Dan's probably town, and not just because of the claim. I really don't see scum avoiding lynching a townie over itself out of fear of a cult that LLD herself said was imaginary. Especially since I don't see why the cult couldn't just recruit said townie.
-
Dorian G is at L-1! 19 Minutes Left!
The Mod will no longer be present. Flips will be delayed until I return. Feel free to continue talking during Twilight. Votes 19 minutes after thi post will no longer be counted.
-
Y'know, what? We're close enough to deadline.
##Vote Dorian
-
Dorian, I think the case on you by K4 is solid, but I can understand that you've been lagging, and been relegated to what seems to others like vote hopping, frustrated at fence sitting and outing an interesting role to fish for reactions, because as PX said, I can do anything (or something). However, I think in general, you are untrustworthy, and you've sunk to a new low with a personal attack.
Dorian G. ##You're Fired.
-
You're a bit late to the party.
You also didn't vote, but I suppose that doesn't mean much now.
-
The Nineteenth Minute Votecount
Dorian G. (8): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity, Chaore, Serela, Dr Rawr, Capth LYNCH
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, Omba
Lady Lambdadelta (3): BT, Action Dan, Dorian G
I have no name (0):
BT (0):
Chaore: (0):
Mr. Bob (0):
Dormio (0):
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Conqueror (0):
Affinity (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob
No more changes in voting will count. All other rules are still applicable. Flip when Shadoweh returns.
-
What is this "You're Fired." of which you speak?
Unless...
It can't be!
IT'S NOT POSSIBLE
Donald Trump
and yeah, as capt. h said, you missed the lynch deadline.
But hey, since you're here you can answer my question: Why didn't you vote at all?
-
Dorian, I think the case on you by K4 is solid, but I can understand that you've been lagging, and been relegated to what seems to others like vote hopping, frustrated at fence sitting and outing an interesting role to fish for reactions, because as PX said, I can do anything (or something). However, I think in general, you are untrustworthy, and you've sunk to a new low with a personal attack.
Dorian G. ##You're Fired.
I'm really at a loss for words. His vote for LLD might have been late but it made sense to me, and I wouldn't call it a personal attack. Also while I like my role because It'll excerise my skill in finding possible PRs (something I think I'm pretty good at), it's not a strong role or very interesting.
I'm pretty sure Dorian is town, but I suggest he spoil us! (or if scum troll us, that would be awesome)
-
I went to sleep and woke up and there are 5 more pages and what the hell just happened?
-
I went to sleep and woke up and there are 5 more pages and what the hell just happened?
"Who's watching the watchmen?"
I am.
(Shadoweh you should have totally seen that movie and used that flavor. Instead you opted for sweaty men)
-
When Survivors Aren't: Lynch #1
Dorian G. (8)): Conqueror, I have no name, Kitten4u, Affinity, Chaore, Serela, Dr Rawr, Capth LYNCH
Action Dan (3): Lady Lambdadelta, Dormio, Omba
Lady Lambdadelta (3): BT, Action Dan, Dorian G
I have no name (0):
BT (0):
Chaore: (0):
Mr. Bob (0):
Dormio (0):
capt.h (0) :
Kitten4u (0):
Dr. Rawr (0):
Omba (0):
Serela (0):
Conqueror (0):
Affinity (0):
Not voting: Mr. Bob
THIS IS WHERE THE FLAVOR WILL GO
NO ONE LIKES SURVIVOR THAT SHOW IS SO OVERRATED! GET OUT
Dorian G. was lynched! He was.....
Hello, Dorian G. You are Russell Hantz from multiple seasons of Survivor. Survivor is a reality television game show format produced in many countries throughout the world. In the show, contestants are isolated in the wilderness and compete for cash and other prizes.Your play in Survivor: Samoa was considered so dastardly that you were instantly invited to Survivor: Heros vs Villains. Despite tricking the Heros into believing you were on their side and making it to the top 3 in both seasons, the final tribal council denounced your villainous behaviour. You received no votes and would be a runner up both times.
Role: Town Anti-Cult Vigilante
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Cult
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vigilante
Abilities:
Basic Rights: You have 1 vote and the ability to speak during the day.
Stolen Immunity Idol (Active) - You are an expert at culling weaker tribesmen then yourself.. Each night you may attempt to kill someone by private messaging the ##Kill (player) command. If the person you target is a member of the Cult faction, they will die.
Oops.
Twilight has ended. Night 1 Begins now. You have 20 hours to send in Night actions. If all actions are in earlier I may start the day earlier.
-
DAY 2 START
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3056/shadowehwhat.jpg)
----------------------------------------------
YOU GUYS DON'T GET A THEME SONG
THE MOD IS ON STRIKE
I REFUSE TO POST THIS SCENE
YOU CAN'T MAKE ME
MAFIA IS CLOSED FOREVER!
...Stop making that face at me! ... ;-;
-----------------------------------------------
The townies were restless all night. Who was the Sekrit alliance?! Meanwhile in the Diary Room..
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3838/talkingtokitten.jpg)
Tirelessly Kitten4u worked through the night trying to psychoanalyze the minds of those around her. Tragically, the Alliance had already made it's next move..
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2189/mimichan.jpg)
This was even worse then fighting the Friendship Alliance.
Kitten4u was killed! She was...
Hello, Kitten4u. You are Janelle Pierzina from Season 6 of Big Brother. Big Brother is the best Reality TV show ever. It's a television franchise where a group of people live together in a large house, isolated from the outside world. They are continuously watched by television cameras. This has not stopped people from getting into physical fights or having intimate sexual relationships with their stockholm syndrome'd housemates. You weren't like that though. You had a secret partner in the house who was evicted week one but you got revenge with the Sovereign Six, dividing the house in half as you tore the 'Nerd Herd' to shreds with your shrewd intellect. You were the last surviving member of your alliance before you were eliminated in the final three.
Role: Town Psychiatrist
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Psychiatrist
Abilities:
Basic Rights: You have 1 vote and the ability to speak during the day.
Break the Alliance (Active) - Having weathered the brutal war between The Friendship Alliance and the Soveirgn Six, you are a master of teamwork and persuading others to come to their senses. Each night you may target a player by private messaging the ##Treat (player) command. If that player is a Serial Killer or Survivor, they will lose all abilities and become a Vanilla Townie. You will not be notified if your action is successful.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9753/moarboxes.jpg)
Nyah, while Shadoweh freaks out, We have more presents for everyone! Unlike yesterday, these boxes are guarenteed to have two things in them. One is the ability to talk during the night, all night, for the rest of the game! Wowzas!
The other thing is A POAST RESTRICTION! Not just any post restriction. Shadoweh has been combing through the archives, gathering the restrictions of mafias past. Some of these restrictions are quite tame. At least one of them.. oh yes. It will be vengeance. Sweet wordy vengance. Let's see what Kilgamayan got when he opened his box!
You have received the ~*~Gift of Night Talk!~*~
You have also been affected by the ##Fuzzy Hug Kittens Day Effect!
You have received the post restriction: Feisty Geist.
- You may not post more then 100 words in a 24 hour period.
Oh no! Now we'll hear even less from Kilgamayan then usual! At least no one else can suffer from that one!
Each Player may choose at any time today to ##Open The Box. You may not Close the Box. Only players that open boxes are affected by the ##Fuzzy Hug Kittens effect. Restrictions and Nighttalk are permenent and will take effect at the end of Day 2. There is no limit to the number of players that may open a box. The penalty for breaking a post restriction is a sound drubbing from Google Translate.
Day 2 is looking for JUSTice Count
Not voting: Everyone!
Boxes Opened: No one!
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 76 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=8&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
-
Well crap, Dorian was telling the truth about his claim. So does this mean there's cult?
Kitten's flip also seems to imply there's an additional third party in this game.
@mod
Is there any way to look in the box without opening it?
Mr. Bob, can you please explain what you meant by "You're fired" after the lynch yesterday?
=D Of course not.
-
Mr. Bob, can you please explain what "You're fired" did/was supposed to do after the lynch yesterday?
EBWOP
-
Please don't open the box.
-
##Vote Conqueror
It doesn't feel like he's all that involved in the game. Lots of little blurbs, but not much emotion, and overall a very quiet player that slips through the cracks. It felt like very "safe" play to me, compared to anyone else in the game.
RIGHT.
So, I had this idea that I really want to try.
EVERYONE:
TELL ME YOUR SCUM TELLS.
ALL OF THEM.
-
Shadoweh: Does the post restriction apply for the rest of the game, too?
It does.
--cut by capt. h
You mean basically anything that I use to discern whether someone is scum?
-
This is probably really stupid because I don't even have a desire for nighttalking! But.
##Open The Box
This is the first time I've done my laundry in a year, so I should probably go back to FOOOOOOOLDING AND HAAAAAAAANGING (http://puu.sh/o4V0). But I'll be back later. (Affinity is still scum)
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Basically, from anyone who's played scum before, I ask that they tell me (and town) the things they tend to do as scum but not as town on Day 1. I would also like to know how players typically refer to their scum buddies on day 1. I would like them to do this with links and examples, pointing out specific ways and patterns of their play that differs depending on whether they rolled scum or town.
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Serela -
WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT NOT OPENNING THE BOX
I DON'T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT NIGHTTALK TO WANT TO IDENTIFY INTENT FROM 300 WORDS A DAY
Kilgamayan already has that restriction. There are no repeats.
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@ Omba - Things that you do as scum and not town, and specifics about how you talk about your scum buddies on day 1. With links and examples.
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silly Capt. h, scumtells are for chumps!
Anyway I did a reread of the game and I have like 9-10 town reads that I would never lynch.
My action was not interfered with.
Technically open the box provides less benefits than negatives (Night talk < getting a nasty PR).
As someone who's claimed already It's not so bad that I take the risk to see what's out there. And I REALLY want a fun PR. If no one has objections I'll open the box. (Also even if they do, I'll still do it).
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Dan, there's a reason for me asking besides curiosity. I'll explain after work.
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capt. h: Ah, I see. Can't do that then since I've never been scum so far.
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This is my second game.
I still don't know how I act as town, and I haven't been anything but that.
Dan, care to share any of those town reads? I'm curious to see how they line up with mine.
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town reads that I will not lynch:
Affinity, Serela, BT, Rawr, Omba, Capt. h, Chaore, IHNN, (and K4U would have been here). These guys are more or less all the same town strength but I can subdivide into Serela, Rawr, BT, Capt.h into my strongest of the strong town reads followed by Affinity, Omba, followed by Chaore, IHNN.
Out of the rest
Dormio, Bob, LLD, Conq.... well I would like not to kill Conq immediately. He has been good to me.
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IHNN you are like the weakest of the town reads, I'm kinda overstating my good opinion. Just sayin
Capt. h
It's hard for me to attack, bus or otherwise, even simply question, my scumbuddies.
Of course now I will work ever harder to correct this.
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Also Serela, did your action resolve?
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So we're mostly in agreement about those then.
I've got BT, Serela, capt. h, Affinity, Omba and myself as town that line up with what you have.
LLD I still think is town.
Chaore, Conq, Dormio and rawr I'm unsure about.
I was also unsure about your alignment, but from how you opened the day you feel a little more town than before.
We're also in agreement about lynching Bob being fine then.
-cut between hitting preview to make sure there were no cuts and hitting post-
That's fair, no one was sure about me last game either.
-cut by asking Serela-
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ok so if no one has anything to add within the next minute or so I'm going to be away for a couple hours.
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oh links and examples. I'm way too lazy for links. Me + Conq barely spoke about each other in F11. I barely commented on Zak D1 and D2 for Magical madness mafia. In Jojo's the best I could do with Schezo was "I'm watching you!" (Plus last minute chainsaw)
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Eh fuck it.
##Open the Box
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##Vote: LLD in case of voting restrictions.
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I got a tame PR. :D It's funny tho.
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If this is Functional Vanilla Mafia v 2.0 then Bard's replace out is a towntell? Still Bob, what was with your last minute Dorian vote (that wasn't even a vote) after he had already been hammered? You didn't seem to have much problem with him earlier, and the fakevote almost seems like an apology.
Will be back later.
Also, stop opening boxes. Why would you willingly want a post restriction. >______________________>
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##Vote Conqueror
It doesn't feel like he's all that involved in the game. Lots of little blurbs, but not much emotion, and overall a very quiet player that slips through the cracks. It felt like very "safe" play to me, compared to anyone else in the game.
:<
More like you and most everyone else ignored my case the entire day while parking on Dan for ???. I've no desire to turn this game into a ragefest like PoR or Graveyard.
My scum meta is that I hate playing as scum and I'll almost always lurk it out (MRM, NotV, F11), and from those games you can tell that I generally ignore my buddies. But I'll lurk it out as town too (DtB and Diablo) so ???
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Something bothers me about Omba's posts but I'm not sure what it is. Omba, how does your scumread of Chaore relate to the fact that he was pushing BT with you?
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@Capt.H: uh, I'd guess I'm just generally really careful as scum. K4U called me a coward (which still stings ;w;) and I don't think that's entirely false, given my first few games lead to me being beaten up on by her and similar folks repeatedly. That kind of carries to my town play too though, so...?
I tend to try and list one scum-buddy as town and one as scum or make no comment though, so it's not just 'he liked these guys therefore they are scum' or 'prolly bussed his buddies passively'. sometimes I think i end up wrapping them both up in 'no comment' though because in general I tend to hate posts that are 'here are my reads for everyone' and I do tend to sparingly post so
Not sure what the point of this is but here have it.
i'm also frankly not sure how correct it is given I'm A) completely biased because I'd like to think I play scum like I play town, B) currently completely and utterly braindead because I spent 18+ hours awake on papers and tests
If I find this is dumb when I get some sleep in, I'll let you know, but for now I just need to go die for a few hours
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Serela what the fuck.
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Dan too? You people are SPECIAL.
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Also.
##Vote ActionDan
well I would like not to kill Conq immediately. He has been good to me.
... So this is like all, survival instincts kicking in or something, isn't it?
Also Serela, did your action resolve?
I don't recall Serela ever claiming. ???
Have I also mentioned how terrible Dan's #480 is? Seriously.
I hate you.
Is this supposed to be part of your reason to vote for LLD? I mean, it's a valid point and all you can deem to respond to it with is "I hate you."
Whatever, I have classes to get ready for.
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I don't recall Serela ever claiming. ???
I believe this was in response to Serela opening his box
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Whatever, I have classes to get ready for.
And it turns out that, despite my timetable saying that my lectures are still on, all faculties are closed today!
Whoo, mid-semester break.
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Actually, due to ~*stuff*~, I'm probably going to have to replace out. Don't have enough time for thorough reads, so whatever.
Dan and BT are pretty solid town (plus Dan's claim is 80% town). Do not lynch ever. The cases on them involve a bunch of hoodoo and semantics and are not convincing at all.
capth. is insanetown but still pretty obvtown nonetheless.
Serela is probtown but isn't playing the game. Pretend this is anonymafia and let her rip.
This is probably one of two games where I've had a solid town read on Affinity (but he was scum in the other rofl).
LLD needs to tell people why Dan is scum instead of using buzzwords to reinforce a case that she's holding onto from ED1. (That said, anyone making a case on LLD needs to say why she's actually scum, :playstyle: is invalid). Dormio is similar; if he's town, he needs to stop tunneling with confirmation bias. I don't really have a scumread on either of them but eh.
That leaves...
I don't think Chaore is scum really, he's just here by PoE because I don't have an uber strong read on him. Same with I have no name and rawr. They've all done townish things but nothing that screams town to me.
I think Omba is scum but I can't put it into words. Partially PoE, but I want people to read his ISO, because there's a lot of theory fluff and point by point hammering on BT, but it feels like he's sniping from the sidelines, answering side questions like a good townie, etc. Mostly gut.
Been self destructing a lot of my thoughts because I can see it either way.
Therefore, I didn't really have much to post.
So I do apologize for adding needless frustration and looking like I'm not playing. Truly.
Scum waffling, no townie apologizes this much :seriouscase:, etc. Seriously, read his ISO. He's not taken one solid stance the entire game, and he shows up only to hammer. If this isn't scummy, I don't know what is.
##Vote: Mr. Bob.
I know this leaves me with 2 scumreads, so one of my town reads is probably wrong. Either that or we have a third party lovefest in which case lol gg no re.
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Mr. Bob, can you please explain what you meant by "You're fired" after the lynch yesterday?
Re-asking for the 3rd time.
##Vote: Mr. Bob
I was going to wait until you explained what the effect, if any, of what you did yesterday was, but then I took an arrow to the knee got tired of waiting.
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I'll summarize parts of Bob's contribution to this game.
Dorian, I think the case on you by K4 is solid, but I can understand that you've been lagging, and been relegated to what seems to others like vote hopping, frustrated at fence sitting and outing an interesting role to fish for reactions, because as PX said, I can do anything (or something). However, I think in general, you are untrustworthy, and you've sunk to a new low with a personal attack.
Dorian G. ##You're Fired.
Look Dorian, I'm sorry that you've been lagging behind and frustrated by the game, and Imma let you finish, but your personal attack (lolwut) on LLD is...untrustworthy. Not because we need a deadline lynch, but because Dorian is...untrustworthy? Feels like newbscum trying to overjustify a hammer that didn't even count.
#457 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812507.html#msg812507)- Rawr shouldn't be cleared off a null, what Dorian did was bad but possibly town because townies are weird, I trust Affinity re BT/Chaore, I don't disagree with an LLD lynch, etc.
Rest of his ISO is more of the same.
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Peeking in while I'm doing laundry, and I definitely agree with Conq's latest post. Scum overjustifying something is a thing I see... a lot, really. Most of the games I've been scum I see a scumpartner going on and I'm thinking "...aren't/wouldn't any of the townies just go ##Vote:____ and have maybe one short "duh." in this situation and be done with it?"
Also conq is town
back to laundry
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The Twentieth Votecount of My Kitty Noooo
Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Action Dan
Mr. Bob (2): Conqueror, I have no name
Conqueror (1): capt.h
Not voting: Everyone else
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 71 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=8&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
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##Vote: Conq
##Open the Box
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Not sure what to think of yesterday's wagons, but Dorian's claim makes the movements between wagons more than WIFOM. I'm quite sure scum would have wanted the anti-cult vig to live over other townies, which partially explains the sudden swelling of the Dan wagon to L-1 as at least half of them shifted to the Dan wagon. I think this is pretty strong evidence that Dan is town, and that people who suddenly came in to vote for Dan without much prior reasoning, such as Serela (though that LLD vote makes me feel a bit better), rawr, Omba, deserve scrutiny.
Will be back with a vote soon.
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K4u is most likely town. There's one thing she did that was utterly strange but... let's put that aside for now.
Would like elaboration on this.
I think that's all I can give to this game. Good luck town.
@mod: Official request to replace out.
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Jesus replaces Conqueror, effective immediately.
In some circles he is merely known as huh what.
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WELP. I think it's time to reveal my reasons.
The reason I asked all the players to talk about how they play scum, and how they interact with their buddies, and even for the links is because I had this IDEA.
When you ask scum if they're scum they say "Nope!" and you say "Liar!" and it all becomes absolutely worthless.
BUT, if you were to ask townies how they play scum, and were to do it on day 2 when we already have day 1 to look at, scum wouldn't be able to take day 1 back and switch up their meta. Course, they COULD just lie about it, or be deliberately vague. That's where the links come in.
Unless scum decided in advance that they're gonna switch it up, I REALLY doubt that scum would be willing to go into previous games in which they were scum, pick out day 1 posts that exemplify how they interact with their scum buddies and demonstrate exactly how they play as scum while explaining their scum thought, if it's the same way they were thinking at the beginning of the day. They would be drawing a straight line towards their buddies if they ever got lynched, and if they were honest, we could just lynch them for being scum. And we would KNOW if they were lying or not because we would have the posts right in front of us, because they would be linking them.
THUS the only players that can explain exactly how they play as scum while giving examples as proof which include their interactions with their buddies and explaining their thought process would be TOWNIES, because the thought process between the scum game and this game in which they're town would be different. Otherwise, we would know they were scum because they would be showing it to us.
The question, when answered honestly and completely, makes the game MUCH harder for scum, which is why I asked it.
- cut by Conq leaving - DARN IT
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I think Omba is scum but I can't put it into words. Partially PoE, but I want people to read his ISO, because there's a lot of theory fluff and point by point hammering on BT, but it feels like he's sniping from the sidelines, answering side questions like a good townie, etc. Mostly gut.
PoE AND mostly gut. There is so much wrong with this I don't even.
Also, PoE D2? Really?
Then proceeds to vote the I do nothing-guy instead. Seriously?
##Vote Conqueror
--cut by Conqueror
Simple: She made it pretty damn obvious that she was some sort of cop for ITPs. Assuming she really was what she alluded to being, it made no sense to actually state it openly in response to something that wasn't even a claim that really conflicted with her role. Which in turn made me wonder why she said that at all; I didn't think it would make sense regardless of her alignment, though, so I said no more about it.
Other reads in a bit and I think Conq asked me about something else, too.
--cut again and bah replacements.
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Actually, PoE of a different sort is kinda sorta how I totally started really noticing Conq.
See, sometime after the Chaore/BT shoutfest, I realized Conq actually became THE ONLY BORING PERSON (yes I did keep track of the boring people). And since scum LIKE to be boring (boring is a good place to hide, I almost NEVER notice those guys), I decided to do a reread of him overnight and decided I thought he was playing a lot like scum would play.
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it sure is
FDUCKING AWESOME to replace into two people voting me on the same page.
quack.
/confirm, won't be posting until tonight, though.
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Oh right that jesus
for some reason I thought Youkai Jesus was replacing in
just about done with laundry! well until I do two more loads but that'll be tomorrow
wow I have a lot of shirts but only like one pair of pants, what's up with that
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also, Conq is always boring, lrn2meta
I might not have even known he was playing if he wasn't the guy I replaced.
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hey HW do I look like I've been letting zwlda borrow my account since the point of time when the box didn't blow up??? I just looked at my posts and went "wow this looks like zwlda doesn't it!"
that's probably not a good thing but I'm actually rereading stuff now to make a more sensible post at least
But yeah Conq is p.town
Or, err, hw is now! Except he hasn't actually posted yet??? Well hw always looks town anyway
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Or, err, hw is now! Except he hasn't actually posted yet??? Well hw always looks town anyway
If he always looks town, you may want to change the way you judge him.
I KNOW! Let's just ask him what the difference between his town game and his scum game is. Even if he doesn't have a day 1, it'll make it impossible for him to play by his scum meta!
Unless he's town, in which case it shouldn't be a problem!
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Dear SHADOWEH am I really the one making these posts? I need to get my brain checked. Or have a hormone panel done or something. ...my friend Ty actually was telling me he really thinks I should get a hormone panel done a few days ago. He thinks I have hyperthyroidism. Hrm. Well anyway!
Dormio I think is scum. I'm going to try and figure out why this is so at some point. Some point might be later tonight or when I wake up tomorrow! I don't know. Hopefully it'll even result in a case! (Worst case scenario I change my mind ;_; But I don't think that will happen!)
Actually no wait he has such a silly Dan case today, yeah I doubt I would change my mind.
Bob is scummy because What Conq Said. (Blatant sheeping powers, go!)
Affinity is still scum so far! I've gone over this yesterday and nothing new has really happened in that field, but we'll see what his first contentpost of D2 turns out like.
LLD and Chaore and IHNN and Omba are ???, the others (Conq, Dan, Capth) are town.
Something about all these people jumping on Conq rigth away bothers me. It might just be because I think he's town? Maybe it's something about their reasons. Hrm :c Speaking of that, LLD I didn't even see any in your post... I apologize if they were stated on D1, but in any case if you could enlighten me as to why I'd be so grateful.
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Capt.h, I think you're taking this a little too seriously :V But I guess it does make sense so why not.
My own personal answer is that I seem to be lurky and completely inadequate when I'm scum, unless it's anonymafia, in which case I can at least hold it together decently for a few days before I start falling apart.
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my typical scum game is that I am awesome 8)
Now that we've got that out of the way, I can coast to endgame on horrible play because it won't be in line with my claimed scum meta. high-level mafia play
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serious answer, I'm not actually that familiar with my own meta
As scum I go out of my way to do these little things that sound like they come from a town PoV so people will read me as town... only I do that as town too, because I always want people to read me as town.
I guess as town it's more natural.
I dunno, I think this is SILLY and ineffective and can only lead to gotcha games later on because people never actually play completely consistently from game to game.
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Yeah, while the idea isn't bad, it isn't really as useful as one might think at first because the intricacies people's play varies from game to game due to vastly differentiating circumstance.
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intricacies of people's play*
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Actually, PoE of a different sort is kinda sorta how I totally started really noticing Conq.
That is a very different kind of PoE, though.
Also, PoE in that form is not a reason someone is scum, but a reason to look at who might be scum.
Now if you do that but the people you end up looking at because of it don't actually look like scum then there's something wrong with your PoE.
Right, another thing. You've asked us to post what we think we do differently when we're scum, but you haven't told us what you do differently as scum.
And yet another thing. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4662.0.html There's a nice list there of all mafia games that have been played on MotK, with the scum team listed for each game.
If someone is aware of his own meta and is at least a somewhat competent player, he can use that to screw with you, btw.
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Omba, is capth scum?
this might be something that I'd know if I actually finished re-read before posting but whatever man
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Eh, I still need to do my re-read, but last day I didn't think he was scum and so far I also don't think he's scum, so most likely he's not scum.
No, scratch that, he's town.
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Welp, that's because I'm having a very, very difficult time finding the link to the one game I ever played as scum on mafiascum.
And now I found it!
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17140&start=250
I attacked someone for being bad while giving them advice on how to improve, and basically just stating general mafia theory. Then I get voted for it and quit. Admittedly, I don't like that example because it was so old, but it's the only time I've been scum and not in IRC.
In IRC, I was lynch for lurking through Lylo and laid as low as humanly possible.
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Dan's claim is town and he's not getting lynched. Did Conq ever say this? He should have.
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The people who reacted to Dan's claim with "oh, yeah, I believe that claim" followed by an immediate unvote with no further explanation are also town.
This is pretty obviously Functional Vanilla Mafia, by the way. <_< Why am I not surprised that Bob replaced out. I really wish Dan hadn't claimed his role's mechanics, though.
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Bard, not Bob.
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@capt.h: As scum I like to bus my buddies and keep my votes on one place. But yeah, capt.h, when the principles of WIFOM get WIFOMed themselves, you know that you have gone completely bonkers.
Preambles:
1) Lynching priorities from scum's PoV D1: fellow scumbuddy < Dorian < random town
2) Dan is probably town due to claim and because the Dan wagon swelled to L-1 after I tied it 4-4, implying that scum may be behind the move.
3) Those who unvoted and persisted in doing so after Dan got to L-1 are probably town (rawr, maybe Serela but he's confusing and was waffly over his position on Dan)
4) Those who voted Dorian early, I feel, are town for now (Conq, IHNM) , though of course, scum might decide to devote a minority to the Dorian wagon to spread out their votes.
===
That said, about Omba, compare his reaction to Dorian's claim:
Dorian's claim: Does not seem like a scum claim to me at all and I doubt it's a third party claim. Though given the box trolling it doesn't tell us anything about whether there actually is a cult (or any ITP for that matter).
to his reaction to Dan's claim.
Btw that Dan claim is a) not provable without him telling us how it works and more importantly b) doesn't tell us anything about his alignment.
and it seems that these two are incongruent, since a) (if there was no cult as he himself suggested) and b) for the second quote was applicable to Dorian as well, but he did not exercise this sort of critical thinking with Dorian's claim. Also, although Dan and Dorian were town reads for him at some point in D1, he did not use their content to judge them on the claims at all. Fits in line with the preambles I stated, and thus I think Omba should be lynched for today.
##Vote: Omba
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Supertown: Dan, Serela, Rawr (though Rawr is scum with a town role PM <_<)
Omba is scum.
Dan is town and Dorian is most likely also town.
He never made any distinction between them from then until deadline. That line also makes Dan sound like he was townier, even though he ended up being Omba's preferred vote.
##Vote Omba
Keep in mind that letting the cultvig live is pro-scum, cult is a danger to both town and scum and cult dying = free non-scum kills. (cut by affinity saying something very similiar, yup)
Also, not fond of him buddying up to LLD, which is one reason I presume that he voted Dan. It's scummy when neutral, back-row players do this to pro-active and hostile town reads, because then they're trying to avoid drawing the hostility toward them.
I like my predecessor's case on Bob. Bob needs to explain why he thinks being conservative with his vote justified not taking any strong stances D1 when there are past games on record where he was using his vote to pressure people as town. Feel that he would be best suited as a vig target rather than a lynch, though, but I'd be down with LALu if an actual vig dies or doesn't show up. Sick Facts: any role madness set-up without a functioning vig is 100% terrible for dashing everybody's expectations
not strongly reading anybody else as scum, want to hear from Dormio about somebody other than Dan very soon though because tunneling is hard to make anything out of.
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This Game Is a Functional Twenty-First Votecount
Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Action Dan
Mr. Bob (1): I have no name
huh what (3): capt.h, Lady Lambdadelta, Omba
Omba (2): Affinity, huh what
Not voting: Serela, Dr. Rawr, Mr. Bob, BT, Chaore
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 67 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=8&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
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Omba is scum.He never made any distinction between them from then until deadline. That line also makes Dan sound like he was townier, even though he ended up being Omba's preferred vote.
Maybe, just maybe the difference in actions that Dan and Dorian showed after that post might have something to do with it.
Keep in mind that letting the cultvig live is pro-scum, cult is a danger to both town and scum and cult dying = free non-scum kills. (cut by affinity saying something very similiar, yup)
That only works if scum a) assume there actually is a cult, b) assume Dorian would be able to find that cult, c) the vig would not be recruitable (and the cult recruiter would not die when targeting scum), d) expect the cult to be a bigger danger than the distraction it presents to town would be worth and e) do not expect someone else to come up with that reasoning.
For e), take a quick look at this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812603.html#msg812603) where LLD presents exactly the reasoning you're using here for why keeping the vig alive is beneficial to mafia. Now if I was really buddying up to LLD as you think I was, it seems rather likely that I would have read and noticed that point.
For some reason, I can't see keeping a vig alive that might perhaps hit a cult that might pose a danger to scum as more important than avoiding to get lynched for keeping that vig from getting lynched.
Also, not fond of him buddying up to LLD, which is one reason I presume that he voted Dan. It's scummy when neutral, back-row players do this to pro-active and hostile town reads, because then they're trying to avoid drawing the hostility toward them.
Yes, because someone that knows LLD's meta will assume that buddying up to her will prevent her from suspecting him. Oh wait.
I like my predecessor's case on Bob.
Proceeds to keep his vote on the obvious lurker.
Summary: I'm his best scumread and all he comes up with as a case on me is bullshit reasoning. His only other major suspect is the easy-target lurker. Thanks for being so obvious, scum.
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I'm going to be scarce again over the weekend. I guess I have to look into Omba again but I was ok with his Early/Midish D1 even though i disagreed with what he had on BT.
Still think LLD is scum and at least should be LOOKED at today.
Seriously
"Claim changes nothing for me"
"##Vote: Conq"
No explaination of what happened to me or why she's voting Conq.
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At this point, I honestly can't tell if the reason I don't like Affinity's Omba case is because I'm getting biasy towards scum!affinity to the point of confirmation bias screwing with my read :c
They don't strike me right though.
Bahhhhh, for once (almost) everyone actually looks potentially scum to me. I'm used to having given a town read to at least half the living players by now. This is unsettling.
Dormio, LLD, and Bob need to show up and do something. I can't take Dormio's silly Dan vote seriously at all, if LLD had any reasons for voting Conq (Now HW) they're lost in the -ridiculously huge- d1 (I'm going to wait and hope they at least exist, though), and Bob is... well, we've gone over Bob.
I feel like something very important is going on, but that I can't tell what it is without flipping the major people involved, since I can't seem to read them.
Anyway, I'm going to sleep. See you tomorrow! (...not as in D3 tomorrow, but you know)
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Two suspects is fine for D2 (or any day, really), first of all. Not wasting :words: on neutral reads, I hate wordcounts.
Maybe, just maybe the difference in actions that Dan and Dorian showed after that post might have something to do with it.
How? This isn't on record, so I expect an explanation.
That only works if scum a) assume there actually is a cult, b) assume Dorian would be able to find that cult, c) the vig would not be recruitable (and the cult recruiter would not die when targeting scum), d) expect the cult to be a bigger danger than the distraction it presents to town would be worth and e) do not expect someone else to come up with that reasoning.
For e), take a quick look at this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812603.html#msg812603) where LLD presents exactly the reasoning you're using here for why keeping the vig alive is beneficial to mafia. Now if I was really buddying up to LLD as you think I was, it seems rather likely that I would have read and noticed that point.
For some reason, I can't see keeping a vig alive that might perhaps hit a cult that might pose a danger to scum as more important than avoiding to get lynched for keeping that vig from getting lynched.
A - B can be attributed to scum assuming the worst. C is not an actual requirement for the cult to be dangerous to scum. D is a given.
You don't need to read somebody's posts to buddy up to them.
I'd argue you're less likely to fully read the posts of players you're buddying up to when you're scum, because if you're buddying up to them then you don't need to look for points of theirs to pick at. Speaking of which, if you disagreed that trying to keep Dorian's role alive would benefit scum, then why did you ignore this completely until it started to concern you personally instead of just the whole town?
Scum can and will try to lynch one townie over another depending on the PRs they want dead. It's not a problem if they think they can get away with not getting called out on it. LLD pointing out that scum would want Dorian around doesn't actually mean scum would expect to get called out on it and doesn't justify your scummy disconnect.
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Since I think Dan town by wagon analysis, this excabarates the blindspots in capt.h's confusing loud/quiet distinctions in D1 (e.g Conqueror) here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812011.html#msg812011), which he surprisingly spearheads as his main case today despite thinking him town from the D1 box fiasco. Other things of note include his reads on Chaore and Bob from here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811512.html#msg811512) which have mysteriously disappeared, as well as me thinking that his Dan case (what with the 'timing' and other ridiculous things) the weakest (content-wise and conviction-wise) out of the early votes.
I don't know about BT; the beef I had with him D1 still stands, though not as pressing as it was then due to the wagon thing. I'm reading his completely useless LLD counterwagon attempt to be a nulltell, and I'll have to see further content from him. Same goes with Serela, who agrees and disagrees without justification and is useless in general.
I echo the need for Dormio to give out reads on people who aren't Dan, and answer how he could still think Dan scum despite being the main counterwagon to an anti-cult vig (?) and his roleclaim (which he still has not addressed).
===
@Omba: Saying that keeping the cultvig alive isn't a pro-scum thing ignores the fact that cult will probably win if they were left unchecked. Even if scum had doubts about the existence of a cult, there is no reason why they would not like an anti-cult vig as well as their NK and other hypothetical resources such as a rolecop to nail the recruiter. With this in mine, your different reactions to Dan and Dorian are suspect.
Also, calling my and HW's case something that a townie could not come up with is horrible when it's very clear that 1) you did not explain clearly as to why Dan's claim was good while Dorian's was bad and 2) you should have put out your reasoning ('the difference' in their actions) a long time ago. Would lynch immediately.
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Two suspects is fine for D2 (or any day, really), first of all. Not wasting :words: on neutral reads, I hate wordcounts.
Except when one case is lollurker and the other is so obviously bad.
How? This isn't on record, so I expect an explanation.
After the point you quoted earlier: Dorian acted like I would expect a townie to act in his situation. Whereas Dan went on what I considered to be a fakerage rampage.
Also the circumstances of his claim made him seem a lot less town to me.
Pointless anyway because I was wrong and now think Dan is town. Can reconstruct the thought process that led me to vote Dan in more detail if you want me to, though.
A - B can be attributed to scum assuming the worst.
A maybe. For B, I very much doubt scum would have expected Dorian to nail the cult recruiter. It was pretty obvious that he had a lot of trouble finding mafia; and finding a cult recruiter would be a lot more difficult still since he generally starts out alone and hence won't exhibit a lot of the things that can give scum away.
C is not an actual requirement for the cult to be dangerous to scum.
But a requirement for the vig to be of worth to the mafia.
D is a given.
No. That depends on the scum's assessment of the situation and thus on who is part of the scumteam.
I'd argue you're less likely to fully read the posts of players you're buddying up to when you're scum, because if you're buddying up to them then you don't need to look for points of theirs to pick at.
Given that you pointed out not getting targeted by the one you're buddying up to as a major reason for doing it, that is a load of TAVROS. If you're not carefully reading their posts, you're in danger of doing something else that person would consider to be scummy.
Someone post please, I need words.
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Words.
You know I don't HAVE to count posts like this one. :V
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More words.
Speaking of which, if you disagreed that trying to keep Dorian's role alive would benefit scum, then why did you ignore this completely until it started to concern you personally instead of just the whole town?
It would at that point not have benefitted town to point it out. If it's not something that can be used to discern who is scum, then what reason would I have to mention it? If anything, it would have increased the likelihood of Dorian getting lynched and since I thought a lot of other viable lynches where much more likely to be scum, that would have directly hurt town.
Scum can and will try to lynch one townie over another depending on the PRs they want dead. It's not a problem if they think they can get away with not getting called out on it. LLD pointing out that scum would want Dorian around doesn't actually mean scum would expect to get called out on it and doesn't justify your scummy disconnect.
TAVROS. Scum need to stay alive first and foremost. Any potential benefits one lynch may have over another beyond that objective pale in comparison to that.
Also, getting a specific person lynched requires a lot more orchestration than just getting someone other than scum lynched. Which in turn makes it much easier to spot the people that orchestrated the lynch for a reason other than getting their main suspect lynched. Which directly runs counter to scum objective #1 not getting caught.
Affinity: The horribad case on me by itself does not make HW scum, otherwise I would have called you out on it, too.
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Firing players is a flavor vote from a null-tell role. Unfortunately, I was about two minutes late while summarizing my stance on Dorian.
The personal attack in question comes at the end of #585 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812759.html#msg812759) where I felt he was trying to discredit the merits of the case that formed on him.
@Capt: Your system seems like it'd be inconsistent/ situational. Hope your experimental tells get results post-game analysis. Haven't rolled scum previous games, and I won't say anything about this game for sake of fairness.
Seriously.Is this supposed to be part of your reason to vote for LLD? I mean, it's a valid point and all you can deem to respond to it with is "I hate you."
If you're implying Dan's judgement was skewed by this personal feeling and used it to vote, that's actually in reference to Capt, not LLD.
Cut: Theory-crafting is painful, re-reading but getting this out first.
Also, the apology comes from me as a person, not from Bob as a player.
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Two things.
This is pretty obviously Functional Vanilla Mafia, by the way. <_< Why am I not surprised that Bob replaced out. I really wish Dan hadn't claimed his role's mechanics, though.
Bard, not Bob.
Why would you know why Bard replaced out?
Haven't rolled scum previous games, and I won't say anything about this game for sake of fairness.
What does the bolded line even mean.
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Bob, vote someone now please. If you hadn't noticed, we are all horribly exasperated with you because you have not put down a single vote once in the entire game. Being 'conservative' with it does not cut it; votes are the main means by which town tracks a person's opinions and stances, and your not using them is causing you to become unreadable and a liability to town. So yes, please vote someone.
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Omba continues with his supertunnelling and somehow I've disappeared from being obvscum, but somehow I still don't read him as scum. Reread is in order probs.
Dan is head-on with #671.
##Vote LLD
Less extreme than Omba but still she tunneled on Dan for the entire D1. And then she disregarded his claim, which means she's sold he's scum.
And then she forgets about all that and votes Conq/HW which I can only see as a "welp Dan is pretty much unlynchable now better forget about him" thing.
Rereading people like Dormio/Affinity/Omba/Bob now.
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If you're implying Dan's judgement was skewed by this personal feeling and used it to vote, that's actually in reference to Capt, not LLD.
See, this is why working on assignments while skimming through mafia is a bad idea.
Either way, I still don't really see what makes Dan to be townie. Whatever.
RE: Dan's claim, it looks genuine enough but I don't see it as meaning anything in regards to his alignment.
capth's whole meta thing a page back hurts my head. My eyes just kind of glazed over when I tried to read it. I'll give it another shot later.
Ugh, I need to sit down and actually read what's been happening today.
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Dormio, you're still voting Dan for "why would you do this" stuff without explaining why it makes him scum.
I don't remember an opinion of anyone other than Dan from you. The whole game. ~___~
Back to reading.
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If my reasons are really that un-self-explanatory, then I'll make a post later going over them.
Meanwhile, reading.
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Oh that's right.
I was voting Conq because his posting felt lackluster and forced.
And then he replaced out which kinda makes sense.
But now I'm reminded of who actually needs to die.
##Vote:BT
Because of everything I pointed out yesterday, and because his reasoning for voting me is completely BEHIND MY BOTTOM and, once again, looks totally fabricated.
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You're still missing a scumread.
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And
>it looks fabricated
you gave the exact same excuse for your vote on Dan yesterday.
Not to mention I should be saying the same about your vote seeing how it came to be.
>Case that is like okay then
BT is misguided.
>Case
BT needs death.
All the things you pointed out yesterday was AFTER you decided I'm scum for completely untownlike reasons.
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Not to mention you're attacking my vote and not Dan's even though they're pretty much the same.
This whole turning a blind eye to Dan all of a sudden is horrible.
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Clarification for those who need it: it's horrible because it means she wasn't convicted behind her Dan case, aka HER ENTIRE D1.
I'd be happy if people can explain the phenomenon that is "I read LLD as town" to me, especially if it's not a result of "meh, she LOOKS town" from the formerly mentioned conviction that now disappeared into thin air.
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Tell you what BT.
This is now a 1v1. I guarantee you are scum. If you flip town, I invite the town to lynch me tomorrow.
Hell, I'll even vote myself to help it along.
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Firing players is a flavor vote from a null-tell role.
I'm sorry, I still don't understand. Is what you're saying that 'you're fired' is your way of voting?
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What a nice, relaxing day. Though I get the feeling I'm forgetting to do something.
Oh. Post in mafia. Firetruck. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqzVXfQU5cY)
How did Dorian even get lynched yesterday anyway? :/
First of all, non-Dan reads.
Mr. Bob is a thing. But I don't think that I actually care about him all that much.
Speaking of which, Affinity exists? :o
BT is a thing also. Dislike the way he brushes aside all the Dan cases with "can't relate to them". Dislike chainsaw defence of Dan. Dislike him arguing about gameplay with Omba. What I particularly dislike is how he continues to go on about how people are showing no conviction in their cases yet I believe that he fails to meet his own criterion in terms of convincing cases. I can and will call you out for pushing "Chaore is scum just because" whilst yelling at people to make convincing cases. Speaking of which what happened to that anyway?
LLD declaring a 1v1 with BT is a thing. No clue what to make of this and I think that it warrants a reread of LLD when I'm not tired.
Anyway, why I dislike Dan coming up whenever.
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First of all, a lack of contribution during the beginning of the day. As stated previously, Dan was adamant in the belief that giving two town reads was somehow a highly productive behaviour. I fail to see how his behaviour was in town's best interests in any shape or form and is, therefore, scummy.
Lurking. Lurking is scummy. 'Nuff said.
By placing his "box vote" on Affinity, he was expressing willingness to see him die. Denying that this occurred seems like backtracking to me, which is an activity that I believe to be more common in scum rather than town.
All of his scumhunting is OMGUS with some AtE thrown in, basically. OMGUS allows scum to be lazy in supposedly "scumhunting". AtE is a method of attempting to add weight to one's words since they don't actually have any solid basis for whatever they're spouting.
To top this off, he's done nothing so far today. Aside from opening that box. Which supposedly should do little more than give him a reason to lurk more. Like seriously, 100 words every 24 hours is nothing and for what purpose would anyone want to impose that upon themselves?
Whatever, I'm tired.
Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck
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The moment I realized I'm basically pushing for Chaore's lynch with "gut" and "lazy scumhunting", I switched back to LLD D1. It's still mostly gut. :ohdear:
I'd normally be concerned over 1vs1 but I don't think LLD is town so "whatever".
Rereads will happen sometime.
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Shadoweh did say each restriction was different, so you don't need to worry about 100 per day.
Maybe 99 per day :V
for what purpose would anyone want to impose that upon themselves?
The system in place of prods comes to mind.
Which supposedly should do little more than give him a reason to lurk more.
Does take effect until N2, so there's no excuse* for today.
I have no name's list of reads:
ActionDan: scummy at the end of D1, seemed more town to me until Dormio raised so valid points/possible motives I had missed. Unsure.
Affinity: lurktown. Has seemed honest in terms of scumhunting and the arguments make sense.
BT: Misguided town/third party with Dan, probably town though.
capt. h: That scumtell idea...in theory it's sound but in practice not really. There's just so many things that can go wrong with it. Probably town for it, but seeing as his only given tell was in LYLO it could have been a ploy to fake being town.
Chaore: unmemorable, few posts. Not enough information to determine a read.
Conq/huh what: I don't know what to think. Will wait to see how huh what plays.
Dormio: Good thought processes. Town.
rawr: Same as Charore, except obsessed with the box ED1.
Me: town due to role PM.
LLD: tunnel!town/third party. Doesn't see scummy but also doesn't seem pro-town, if that makes any sense.
Mr. Bob: Scummy McObvScum, for reasons I don't need to go into again.
Omba: town, good thought processes, has scumreads, partakes in active discussion.
Serela: Probably town, a little suspicious due to opening the box so suddenly, but you were solid town end of Day 1.
*game-related
-cut by BT-
Only 288 words!
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@Dormio:
I echo the need for Dormio to give out reads on people who aren't Dan, and answer how he could still think Dan scum despite being the main counterwagon to an anti-cult vig
===
This is still a SPECIAL game, btw. No one sans me, huhwhat and to some extent IHNM (in a very stupid way and without any mention of anyone's cases past Dormio-Dan) even seems to be reading the game closely past their pet cases on each other or the thundering volume of their exhausted sighs.
;_;
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Since I think Dan town by wagon analysis, this excabarates the blindspots in capt.h's confusing loud/quiet distinctions in D1 (e.g Conqueror) here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812011.html#msg812011), which he surprisingly spearheads as his main case today despite thinking him town from the D1 box fiasco. Other things of note include his reads on Chaore and Bob from here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811512.html#msg811512) which have mysteriously disappeared, as well as me thinking that his Dan case (what with the 'timing' and other ridiculous things) the weakest (content-wise and conviction-wise) out of the early votes.
>_>
Box speculation is town. But I never said Conq was town.
But Chaore is town. Bob is almost too derp to not be town.
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My Restriction Is Posting The Twenty-Second Votecount
Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Action Dan, BT
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (1): I have no name
huh what (2): capt.h, Omba
Omba (2): Affinity, huh what
Not voting: Serela, Dr. Rawr, Mr. Bob, Chaore
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta
Tarring Possibility Counter: Dr. Rawr - 22 hours (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812751.html#msg812751) , Chaore - 20 hours (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813465.html#msg813465)
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 55 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=8&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
Mod Note: I have been informed that this Sunday is actually a holiday. >_> I want every player to private message me letting me know if they're available to play or not. If there's a large percentage of the game that will be absent I will grant a 24 hour extension.
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I know I'll be gone for most of tomorrow so that's a thing.
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##Open the Box
I hope I don't regret this later :V
(in a very stupid way and without any mention of anyone's cases past Dormio-Dan)
Hey...what's that supposed to mean...
@mod: how do pictures count towards the wordcount, if at all?
Depends on how many Words are in them.
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I, for one, am not regretting the box.
Just a heads up rawr, if you don't show up within the next 15 minutes you shall be tarred, and possibly feathered. I'm sick of people lurking and if I have to take matters into my own hands to (sort of) prevent it then I will!
(read: anyone who hasn't posted in 24 hours will be tarred and feathered by me due to lack of patience at how slow this game has been moving today)
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Please don't tar and feather townies.
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Please don't tar and feather townies.
Anyone i consider obvtown at the time won't be then.
*needs to stop missing the obvious
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rawr isn't someone I'm sure about either so maybe this will put some pressure on him.
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##Vote:Dorian
w/e i think either wagon would flip town.
I warned you.
I warned you about prods bro.
##Tar and Feather: Dr Rawr
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>:(
I DON'T CARE HOW INACTIVE HE IS, DON'T TAR, FEATHER, OR SET ON FIRE TOWNIES.
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tar and feather=prod, set on fire=modkill.
I see no problem with a prod/prod equivalency.
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Hm, actually, I misinterpretted the tar and feather instructions. First time I read them, I thought you could set any townie that's been prodded on fire immediately.
OK NEVERMIND THEN. BUT HE'S STILL TOWN.
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lol is that supposed to be some kind of OMGUS because youre scum? Id rather take the fire anyways
Anyways in response to affinitys BROWNBETA post. Why i hopped on and off dans wagons? Maybe because he stilll had not claimed with like what, 2hours left? So FFMASTER. Oh i also noticed how you passed me off as town later. Well i guess youre scum also
I dont get why people are opening the box, its basically giving you a MAGNA excuse to not post at all. In fact id say its pretty scummy to open up the box at all.
Bob is probably antitown do to his amount of uselessness, his own reads, and the fact that he wanted to use his role on someone about to get lynched.
IHNN is scum, everyone has a bad read on him, hes made up cases and when people start getting votes he all of a sudden has a scum read on them. Also see previous posts, made up reasons as to why serela is scum, and has no cases of his own ever. Its like everyone shuffling around with kaori last game lol
Dormio I dont think dan is scum, or at least theres a very little chance that he is a scum watcher. If you want ill role claim and let you decide if his role is scummy or not.
Also lld is looking pretty weird with that 1v1 thing how is that supposed to be town?
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##Vote: I have no name
forgot this
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Why would you know why Bard replaced out?
I don't. It was a joke.
Pointless anyway because I was wrong and now think Dan is town. Can reconstruct the thought process that led me to vote Dan in more detail if you want me to, though.
Please do. I'm still not seeing your thought process even from your further explanation. I'm pretty sure this argument is going to devolve into "but I don't see it that way" back and forth, which is a bad sign. Nothing changes the fact that you made a scummy disconnect at deadline without bothering to justify it until prodded (the main reason I actually suspect you, the rest is supporting), so all I can do is see how you attempt to explain it.
RE: LLD vs. BT: I haven't found a legitimate reason to suspect BT no matter how hard I've re-read him. Attempting to start a last minute wagon is HONKING, but it's something a frustrated townie can and will do if they hate the wagons enough and I don't think he went about it in a scummy manner. I get the impression LLD is biased because BT is attacking her. LLD just reads like crazy town being pro-active in her own way with her forcefulness, and I generally consider 1v1 attempts to be townie when there's precedent for them from past interactions. I wouldn't lynch either player.
I'm not pleased with capt. h dropping his vote on my past player at the start of D2, then continuing to chime in every now and then but not actually commenting on the important events (LLD 1v1) or the other cases (Dan, LLD). Looks like he's just riding out the potential wagon and using his theory to scumhunt only passively, need him to say more sometime soon.
Nameless' opportunistic tarring of rawr is BAD. Tarring players who you don't have scum reads on in general is BAD, since if they're town scum can get an extra, justifiable kill pretty easily. I was cool with his D1 but that recent wall of opinions is bad too, do you have, like, any non-waffling stances on the players with multiple votes? Would lynch.
I want to punch Dormio for responding to "please post some non-Dan reads" with absolutely nothing conclusive then talking about Dan again. Sleep, what he thinks about other current goals?
Wordcount: 405
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There are so many things wrong with that rawr I don't even know where to begin oh wait yes I do I'll break it down.
I don't know why you're OMGUSing me for basically prodding but ok whatever you feel like.
"everyone has a bad read"
No, not everyone, unless you mean 'no one has an obvtown read'.
"hes made up cases and when people start getting votes he all of a sudden has a scum read on them"
lol nope. Other people are posting before I do in a lot of cases, the Dorian switch D1 was because I saw Bob wasn't going to get lynched.
"made up reasons as to why serela is scum"
against misinterpreting/misrepping me, I thought Serela was scummy off of gut and then gave reasons why I may have felt that.
"has no cases of his own ever"
Then let me ask you this. Who pushed for Mr. Bob to be lynched first? (Hint: it shows this statement false)
Thank you for cementing yourself on the scum side of my opinions as opposed to null, makes my life so much easier. Still think Bob is worse though so I'm leaving my vote where it is.
-cut by huh what-
Tarring players who you don't have scum reads on in general is BAD, since if they're town scum can get an extra, justifiable kill pretty easily.
It was an attempt to de-stagnate the game, and generate discussion. Information helps town, which if there's no discussion going on then there's no information, hurting town. I can see why you'd think it's bad, but I had a perfectly pro-town reason for doing so.
I was cool with his D1 but that recent wall of opinions is bad too, do you have, like, any non-waffling stances on the players with multiple votes?
If by waffling you mean unsure read I'm down to just 3: ActionDan, Chaore and yourself. Rereading D1 with the flips in mind I think LLD is third party.
Would lynch.
I sure hope people going from "Nameless is town" D1 to "would lynch" D2 doesn't become a thing in every game.
Original post had 426 words.
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Capt.h is being passive right now and that is not to my liking. Not to mention, his vote is still on Conq-now-HW.
Rawr should post more often. Not only because I enjoy his posts but because I don't want him activitykilled !_!
A reread of Dormio makes me think he's town off of meta. The way he's tunneling on Dan seems like what he always does and I see none of the weird passiveness from Imp. HW is pro-town but he's always like that so ?_?. I need to read Affinity a bit more.
Still thinking IHNN is town or leaning town because his recent stuff implies newbtown and it's hard to imagine newbscum IHNN tarring Rawr like that because it's unnecessary risk. Would not lynch.
Back in, like, 18 hours.
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No reason to justify your scummyness, also expecting mod to edit your post!
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Twenty-Third Votecount of Waking Up Is Hard
Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Action Dan, BT
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (1): I have no name
huh what (2): capt.h, Omba
Omba (2): Affinity, huh what
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
Not voting: Serela, Mr. Bob, Chaore
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name
Tarring Possibility Counter: Chaore - Way over 24 hours (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813465.html#msg813465)
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 49 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=8&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
Mod Note: Still waiting for most players to private message me about Sunday. So far only two have issues and will be given V/LA. If there's a large percentage of the game that will be absent I will grant a 24 hour extension.
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8625/rawrtarfeather.jpg)
Dr. Rawr has been Tarred and Feathered!
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expecting mod to edit your post!
I edited the post down before posting, it currently has about 380 words.
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You only have 100!
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IHNN: That might make sense if the game had actually stagnated. People had been talking, those who weren't can't be around 24/7 and you could've just been patient. Excuse looks contrived. Also, I want solid comments on all three 2-vote wagons (LLD, HW, Omba), because you didn't actually provide those in your reads list. Would you vote on each wagon or not? No "could be scum, but maybe town" bullship.
Still want to make sense of BT vs LLD because I'm not buying into either case right now and the whole situation looks very tunnelly and ridiculous.
BT, why do you think that LLD voting you over Dan is unsubstantiated when it was pretty evident she A) thought you needed to die late D1 but B) didn't want to create new wagons with 9 hours left in the day? ISO her (it's easy since she only posts in mafia), her D1 - D2 priorities become pretty obvious.
LLD, why do you think that BT's vote on you from yesterday came from scum trying to force a random lynch instead of town frustrated with the wagons? Also, what about his play actually make you think he was worth lynching over Dan in specific?
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Please do. I'm still not seeing your thought process even from your further explanation. I'm pretty sure this argument is going to devolve into "but I don't see it that way" back and forth, which is a bad sign. Nothing changes the fact that you made a scummy disconnect at deadline without bothering to justify it until prodded (the main reason I actually suspect you, the rest is supporting), so all I can do is see how you attempt to explain it.
Actually CORNDOG it, it doesn't matter what explanation I give now anyway since you have no way of telling whether that really was what I thought at that point. So I won't bother.
Since you so nicely made it clear what your actual case on me is, though, that won't be necessary anyway. So your case boils down to "he changed his opinion and vote without giving an explanation". Uh yes, that by itself sure is pretty scummy. Except it's not. If Dorian had flipped scum or there was an actual concrete reason scum would want him to live a lot, you would actually have a point. But since you've only come up with speculative TAVROS, you don't, which pretty much breaks your whole case.
Which is kind of to be expected since you're scum.
FFF-- time, but short other stuff anyway.
FoS: I have no name
rawr is town.
BT is still scum and LLD is still town.
--cut 4 times argh
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Also, I want solid comments on all three 2-vote wagons (LLD, HW, Omba), because you didn't actually provide those in your reads list. Would you vote on each wagon or not?
LLD: yes.
Conq/HW: yes, to secure a lynch. Would vote for rawr/Bob over this though.
Omba: no, except to prevent a random lynch.
IHNN: That might make sense if the game had actually stagnated. ... Excuse looks contrived
3 hours of nothing was relatively stagnated, especially compared to D1. I can see where you're coming from with my reason looking contrived, but the same action can be interpreted differently.
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BT, why do you think that LLD voting you over Dan is unsubstantiated when it was pretty evident she A) thought you needed to die late D1 but B) didn't want to create new wagons with 9 hours left in the day? ISO her (it's easy since she only posts in mafia), her D1 - D2 priorities become pretty obvious.
Answering this but I really need to go. !_!
The vote on me is scummy but not because it came out of nowhere, since it didn't (I explain why it's scummy a few posts earlier). However, regarding Dan:
It's scummy that her priorities changed (yes, they did change) for no apparent reason (she never implied that I was worse than Dan, only the contrary).
Above that, it's scummy that Dan completely disappeared to her once he stopped being a viable wagon.
These make me think she was never behind her own Dan vote, which is of course scummy.
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Since you so nicely made it clear what your actual case on me is, though, that won't be necessary anyway. So your case boils down to "he changed his opinion and vote without giving an explanation". Uh yes, that by itself sure is pretty scummy. Except it's not. If Dorian had flipped scum or there was an actual concrete reason scum would want him to live a lot, you would actually have a point.
It's scummy because Dan is obvtown and scum don't care who gets lynched when given the choice between delicious townie and delicious townie, explaining the lack of effort put into justifying between the two. See scum!PX.
BT: Your vote still looks like a stretch to me. She made it pretty clear that she thought you were scum and wanted you to die D2.
I DO agree that LLD ignoring Dan now that he's not a viable wagon is interesting, which is why I asked her about him, but I believe her vote on you is in line with her D1 enough to make it not a particularly strong point. On a related note, lol at Omba waiting until people are questioning others for dropping D1 suspicions to say "BT is still scum".
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It's scummy because Dan is obvtown and scum don't care who gets lynched when given the choice between delicious townie and delicious townie, explaining the lack of effort put into justifying between the two. See scum!PX.
Also, before you start posting gotcha games: this is in response to your claim that there was no concrete reason scum would want Dorian to live. Scum didn't need to want Dorian to live for you to be scummy, it just makes you look worse.
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I just have literally like no effort to read this game at this point what the GRAVEYARD.
Huhwhat is town and thank you for pointing that out almost immediately. Capt.H is busy being crackpot theorist town but still town. Rawr is annoying and loud and i don't see why he's town capt.h please explain why.
I think I stopped being able to read Dormio games ago, but I think he might be townish.
IHNN is... I don't know what the GENTLY CARESS, he seems more SILLY than scummy. If it wasn't for the fact I was looking way worse at Rawr for that exchange a minute or so I'd almost be willing to lynch him but I just kind of can't look at anything and say 'yes that's worth lynching him without a doubt'.
Serela is... still calling Affinity Scum for his first vote in ED1. Okay then. Please explain to me why you decided Dan was suddenly town now Serela?
I'm currently not liking Dan, but I think that's more word choice he keeps doing, such as 'Conq has been good to me' and 'These people are irresponsible, look at them'. And his anger, to point of responding to one of Capt.H's points with a simple 'I hate you' just...vanishing. I'd like to ask him why he used the words he did in the previous examples. Also Huhwhat you may want to reconsider your clear in a moment because if i remember why you did it it is actually ill-based.
Affinity reads off for me but Affinity always reads as scum to me. Reading him is making my head hurt and I suddenly really need to rush this post.
Omba is attacking our lord and master Huhwhat and I'm actually considering voting him because everything about his D2 at the moment seems wrong, case next post I need to get to something important.
BT is BT except scum doesn't do 11th hour wagons but he's BT and scum and GENTLY CARESS it I still kind of want him dead but I'm not so sure because SCUM DOESN'T DO 11th HOUR WAGONS THEY JOIN THEM
ALL OF THIS DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE BOB IS TOWN AND I AM REALLY ANGRY WITH HIM
BOB, LOVING TELL THEM WHY YOU CAN'T VOTE YOU EQUIUS. IT'S NOT IMPORTANT TO HIDE.
Just vote and you should be able to do that thing where they realize you can't unless shadoweh is A KIND AND BENEVOLENT DICTATOR.
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+words since I think Chaore implied he needed more?
why is everybody rushing their posts all of a sudden.
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All Edits Complete O_O
Chaore may no longer be Tarred and Feathered.. for now
BT is V/LA until Noon EST Saturday.
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Suddenly I really and licking do not use I no excrement barrel with the spite of the line community with my primitive plan curse to do obtain a complete response word at copied mod. each mail.
oh my goodness jesus never talked like this
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more i need a moment to completely compose myself or my post will be yelling at omba and calling him nothing but dirty scum and how he should lick my boots
also need to decide if i should vote omba or stick with BT because there are great reasons for both, especially omba doing that thing where he tries to downplay my post passively to dissuade me from voting him again and
and mr.bob is just
i just want to strangle his townie little HEAD OFF WITH SHADOWEHS AND RAINBOWS
this is just
i have seen a lot of things in mafia that have made me excessively angry
all of them together could not match my unbridled carrot-flavored fury and i want mr. bob in here right now explaining because GOSH FRACKING DARNIT MAN THIS IS NOT A THING YOU DO TO TOWN. I SEE YOU ARE HERE GET IN HERE
GET IN HERE YOU
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also The PISTAZIE of also THE everloving OF an as to the DARK habit OF BLUE of Christmas A PERFUME THE HEAD that KISSES OF GUIMAUVE AND COMPOSED HIM one OF GETTING STICKY WITH A CITATION OF THE SNOZBERRIES
TACKLE THAT ONE SHADOWEH
TACKLE THAT ONE
You're making me want ice cream. :<
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I give up trying to read that one
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Madre de Dios, I'll explain post game.
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i
you
i'm just going to step away from the screen from a while and stop typing words before i make google translate and shadoweh both break
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Chaore are you sure hes town?
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This game.
rawr, I thought I found you town for unvoting and voting at the last minute? Why am I scum?
Omba is still absolutely terrible in his exchange with huhwhat. I'm quite shocked that no one seems to be acknowledging his different, unsubstantiated reactions to Dorian's claim and Dan's claim D1, and that he's voting huhwhat for finding the above suspicious (while of course attempting to dissuade me from my vote). Why isn't anyone paying attention to this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813609.html#msg813609), or the one below it?
I don't think I have said much on the BT-LLD thing, but I might have an idea what LLD is getting at. But all in all, the interactions are completely insoluble and not helpful to town at all on both sides, what with LLD's loud and hyperbolic play and BT's case which focuses on LLD's loud and hyperbolic play as scummy (I don't agree that her vote on you is forced). Will just say that if I had to go for one of them in their 1v1, I would go for BT.
Chaore doesn't seem to be referring to content in the game, but rather reporting stuff, which makes his wall pretty null. Everyone is being hard to read now. Maybe it's because half of the players may already have become anti-town. rawr -> IHNM. BT <--> LLD. Omba -> huhwhat, Dormio <--> Dan ; these are the tunnel-visioned cases in the game, and none of them can see past their pet cases. It's infuriating; they could very well be scum, third-party or horrible town.
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Also Huhwhat you may want to reconsider your clear in a moment because if i remember why you did it it is actually ill-based.
His claim is town according to rawr and I's softclaims. I don't think it's a matter of scum having a similiar role, because:
- It came at a point where the day was Dan vs. Dorian and scum!Dan would have needed a pretty solid fakeclaim to get lynched over Dorian's claim when at L-1. "Super Situational Backup" is not this fakeclaim.
- For it to be a scum fakeclaim consistent with existing town roles, somebody on the scumteam needs to have that role. If it's not Dan, he's getting screwed by trackers / watchers when he gets caught doing something bad or inconsistent (and he KNOWS a watcher is a likely possibility). If it's Dan, he's probably supposed to get sent on the kill given that scum watcher isn't that great, meaning they have to forfeit another scum power to make his claim match up. It's just a very inefficient fakeclaim overall.
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@Rawr: Opening the box is scummy? I can see if townies gained night-talk and scum needed to be able to counter-act, or if they wanted to dominate the night-talk or something. It sounds like Wine reasoning. But I'm actually surprised you are not opening the box with "nice" things in it, and then using box opening for a reason to vote.
On LLD's gambit: Unless town!BT was utterly convinced that scum!LLD existed, I don't think he'd take the bet, because town vs town destructive potential, otherwise 1 for 1 might not be so bad. Scum!BT can't take the bet. Town!LLD would be overly confident to make stakes that high. A Scum!LLD would be making absolutely ballsy play to be bluffing town!BT into backing down. Cut by Affinity: Yeah this match-up favors LLD.
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Omba is still absolutely terrible in his exchange with huhwhat. I'm quite shocked that no one seems to be acknowledging his different, unsubstantiated reactions to Dorian's claim and Dan's claim D1, and that he's voting huhwhat for finding the above suspicious (while of course attempting to dissuade me from my vote). Why isn't anyone paying attention to this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813609.html#msg813609), or the one below it?
Interestingly, I don't recall actually pressing the points you brought up regarding Omba's seperate reactions to each claim, as I've been focusing more on the apparent gap in his thought process ("Dan is town" -> "Dan is town, Dorian is town too I guess" -> * votes Dan with no further comment *). I don't disagree with them, but I never actually pushed them myself and it's weird that you'd state this while complaining about how people are reading other players selectively.
Bob cut: between LLD and BT, who do you think is scummy and why?
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"scummier and why"*
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To elaborate on the Bob question, I can't tell if that's actually his opinion regarding LLD and BT or if he's just analyzing the circumstances of the 1v1
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My brain is giving up on scum!Affinity for now and even I don't know why, but I'm going to roll with it because absolutely no one else seems to be interested in it and it's not like we're in LyLo, it's only D2, it can be revisited later.
Even if Mr.Bob has the role I've thought he's had and Chaore clearly thinks he has (Which, at this point, I imagine he's mod-forbidden from claiming, so maybe Chaore should calm down even if his rage is adorable), the way he's acting is still UUGH.
If anyone was going to put Sticky-Vote on a scum, it'd be Shadoweh, anyway. So the role is a null-tell.
At least I think Chaore is town now! So -something- has happened.
People who still think that everyone who opens a box is liable to get Kilga's 100-word restriction needs to read over that again and realize that absolutely no one will be able to get it :V On that front, hey Shadoweh, since every box is guaranteed to contain the power to talk at night, I see that Kilga is now allowed to post a 0~100 word post during the night phase, yes? :VVVVVVVVVVV
Sure, why not.
Anyway I -realllly- don't like Dormio. Whyyyyy is he still voting Dan? If nothing else, nobody else is interested, and not even the kind of "Not Interested" where "I don't really see why they're scummy" but the kind of Not Interested as in almost every single other person playing is pretty much positive that Dan is town for both play and/or role-related reasons so he's never going to be lynched, ever, unless something weird happens. It's almost like trying to lynch an Innocent Child at this point.
That being said I'm not sure whether I should be viewing it as scummy play or bad play :c A part of me is just going "Would a scum seriously be going after Dan right now?".
next post will contain mr.bob stuff and vote
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Gah, I kindly ask the mod to NOT MURDER POSTS PLEASE.
To answer Chaore, Rawr is town because he's annoying and loud. Also because he immediately unvoted Dan.
So... first my town list!
Serela
Rawr
Dan
Bob
BT
LLD
Chaore
If anyone needs reasons for anyone, just ask!
Also, I really wish LLD v. BT wasn't a thing because I don't need anymore town v. town noise.
Also, Oh my god No Name is LOUD! Seriously, the only time I've ever seen scum explode posts like this is UK and maybe LLD when she feels like it. Frustrating, loud, which means somewhat town, NOT a fan of lynching him.
Anyway, Huh What seems townie enough for now, so I'm willing to see where this goes.
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
Because TUNNELVISION
More specifically, because I haven't seen Dormio this tunnelly since Magical Madness Mafia (in which he became scum and TUNNEL INTO CHAORE YAY!), and because he hasn't hit any of my town tells, and because everyone else that was on Dan's wagon at this time (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.390.html) I either think is town or know is town (i.e. basic votecount analysis), and because h hasn't said much about anyone other than Dan.
ALCOHOL MAY HAVE INSPIRED THIS POST.
- 5 NEW REPLIES -
THIS SHOULD BE A DRINKING GAME. 1 SHOT PER CUT. GOGOGO.
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Suddenly I've realized I've been tiptoeing around actually voting, today. Well, I'm perfectly happy with a Mr.Bob lynch, for reasons that have been mentioned to death by most people and have not changed with any of his latest posts because said posts don't actually contain any scumhunting. Actually, I'm more then happy about one. But I suppose I should reread Omba and IHNN and try to get something other then a ??? read on them.
Actually wait a second. Mr.Bob said something along the lines of "Rereading but posting to get this out there" in his first d2 post, but... he hasn't seemed to ever get that reread result stuff out there. Seriously, each time I think about it he seems more and more like he's lurkscum coasting. His D1 might be something he always does but so far his d2 is simply inexcusably active-lurky.
##Vote: Mr.Bob
Capt.h posting drunk is cute.
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capth, you do realize that if you put faith in your town reads, the scumteam has to be some arrangement of HW / Dormio / Nameless / Omba, right? Not to mention that you don't want Nameless lynched, implying you think Omba and I are probably buddies, which is... yeah. Town reads should not come that easily in the first place unless you're scum.
Serela, thoughts on BT/LLD? Also, why are you dropping Affinity so quickly when you have not even tried to push his case at all today? That's not how town gets their suspects lynched.
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The Twenty-Fourth Votecount Is My New Twitter Account
Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Action Dan, BT
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (2): I have no name, Serela
huh what (1): Omba
Omba (2): Affinity, huh what
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
Dormio (1): capt.h
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Chaore
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name
Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 45 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=8&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
Mod Note: Still waiting for most players to private message me about Sunday. So far only two have issues and will be given V/LA. If there's a large percentage of the game that will be absent I will grant a 24 hour extension.
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Oh, I miscounted capth's town reads. He should actually be left with HW / Dormio / Nameless / Omba / Affinity, which isn't as questionable. I still don't think it's natural to have that many town reads worth listing without question on D2. At the very least, it's foolhardy for town to do.
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Well, my reads AREN'T immutable, and some are stronger than others.
It's a list of all the people that have passed one or more of my town tells! \^_^/ It may not be perfect, but it really helps me narrow down my suspects in the first round! Then, once we catch scum I'll have INTERACTIONS to help me :D
But yeah, for every one of those players, there is something they did that I would not expect from scum.
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Fair enough. What's your towntell for Chaore, though?
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Day 1 catfight with BT.
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@huhwhat: They are very similar from my point of view. There's no reason why he would have reacted one way to Dorian's claim and another to Dan's claim (since he had town reads on both of them beforehand), and he did not provide such reasoning.
Will be gone for around 16 hours.
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@Omba: Would you restructure the thought process if Bob asked?
@HW: BT of either alignment backed down, thereby losing face, and being harder to trust. Compounded that I'm having a hard time believing that scum!LLD plays commando. Therefore LLD > BT.
Cut. @Serela: Been reading HW vs Omba and thinking about things to say, but then thinking "isn't this theory crafting rather than scumhunting?" and deciding to ditch it.
Also, Affinity's cases on Serela and Omba almost look like voting on technicalities. Needs a deeper look at the Omba case, but for now, Bob needs a break.
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... theory crafting? ...technicalities?
@capt.h: If you are excusing Chaore for the slapfight with BT, why aren't you excusing Dormio for his slapfight with Dan?
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Different players do different things as scum. I've seen Dormio scum tunnel into a single townie all day every day until he was lynched, and my experience with Chaore scum is LURK AND BE IGNORED. What I wouldn't expect from one scum is very different from what I wouldn't expect from another scum.
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@mod: extra day would be cool
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A PM IS DO YOU >:<
This day. It should be simpler, not all over the place.
LLD is could be ballsy enough to declare 1v1 vs BT in a precise effort to gain town sympathy for going after a guy who is unlikely to be lynched (well apparently people are actually considering him as a lynch target. Yuck.) . People buying into the Wifom have me on edge.
I need some time to think about Omba again. Also I did not like Chaore's post. thumbs down for Bob also. I gotta re-evaluate HW.
Never ever ever lynch Serela, Rawr, Capt.h or BT. Never Never Never.
I'll get serious tomorrow.
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Interestingly, I don't recall actually pressing the points you brought up regarding Omba's seperate reactions to each claim, as I've been focusing more on the apparent gap in his thought process ("Dan is town" -> "Dan is town, Dorian is town too I guess" -> * votes Dan with no further comment *). I don't disagree with them, but I never actually pushed them myself and it's weird that you'd state this while complaining about how people are reading other players selectively.
Nitpicking on the only other current supporter of his main case. Which shows he doesn't actually want to see me lynched. D'oh.
Also :colonveeplusalpha: people not making it clear what they think about this.
Is Conq/huh what scum or not?
Am I scum or not?
Will get back to stuff huh what said and other stuff in a bit.
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Why am I expected to allow people to get away with doing what strikes me as off as long as they're voting the same person as me? That's SILLY.
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Why am I expected to allow people to get away with doing what strikes me as off as long as they're voting the same person as me? That's stupid.
There's a difference between attacking someone for clearly scummy actions and nitpicking and you know that.
If that's an actual suspicion then state your read of Affinity. Now.
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No, I don't have a scum read on Affinity. I have a neutral read on him, and he did something I thought was off. As such, I pressed him on it to see what his explanation would be, since that could help me read said weird-looking action more confidently. That's not nitpicking, it's PLAYING THE GAME.
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No, I don't have a scum read on Affinity. I have a neutral read on him, and he did something I thought was off. As such, I pressed him on it to see what his explanation would be, since that could help me read said weird-looking action more confidently. That's not nitpicking, it's PLAYING THE GAME.
Admits to it and waffles on his read. The only thing that action could lead to is NOTHING FLARPING HAPPENING. Either Affinity would respond in a way that looks vaguely scummy and you could have listed him as another suspect for it, or he wouldn't and you'd still have managed to cast doubt on the wagon on me. In either case, you'd have reduced the number of supporters of your preferred lynch.
Wait, Affinity was the one who actually started the wagon on me. Uh yes, that makes sense. It doesn't matter what would become of the wagon, you'd profit from it either way.
Nice work, scum. Covering all your bases is a good idea, but doing it so plainly visible has a tendency to get you lynched. Which we should do.
Lynch this CELIBATE scum.
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The Twenty-Fifth Votecount Looks Alot Like The Last One
Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Action Dan, BT
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (2): I have no name, Serela
huh what (1): Omba
Omba (2): Affinity, huh what
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
Dormio (1): capt.h
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Chaore
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name
Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 39 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=8&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
Mod Note: Still waiting for most players to private message me about Sunday. So far only three have issues and will be given V/LA. If there's a large percentage of the game that will be absent I will grant a 24 hour extension.
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ok so I just woke up at 6 in the morning and I'm tired and what is this
I'm going to try to get reads on Chaore/huh what because they posted some.
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I'd say huh what is town after reading the stuff since my last post.
Chaore is still unreadable due to the mod editing the posts.
@mod: editing the posts makes them infinitely harder to understand, perhaps linking to an unedited version would be better for gameplay reasons?
Perhaps you should ask your fellow players to follow the rules if they're making it hard to understand them.
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Er.... I'll get to all the questions here in a while later today.
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YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A PM IS DO YOU >:<
I don't really have any issues with Sunday but I'd like the V/LA anyway just because.
LLD declaring a 1v1 with BT is a thing. No clue what to make of this and I think that it warrants a reread of LLD when I'm not tired.
This is a thing that I said that I would do. And after having done this, I don't see anything in particular that changes my opinion of LLD for the time being.
Since Dan isn't providing me with anything to talk about, I think I'll do this.
##FoS Affinity
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Why Affinity, one may ask?
That is a good question!
I'm going to try to make a post about it.
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Omba's noisy, tunnel-vision case on huhwhat is completely untenable and I'm not sure why people are ignoring it, as well as his D1 roleclaim bias and stuff, or why people aren't addressing it at all.
Dormio, for the last FUNKFUNKFUNKFUNKFUNK time, answer the question here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813756.html#msg813756).
capt.h's heavy meta play is based on what his perceptions on other people's play are and can therefore be fabricated when he says that the same thing done by different people gives different reads. Oh well, at the very least, I am happier with his Dormio vote than his Conq vote, but his horribly hazy scumhunting methods on his idea of what is 'loud' and 'soft' (why is Dormio not 'loud' with his tunnelvision for example) still give me the creeps. There's also that detachedness from the game in that he does not comment on anyone else's cases on anyone else., but then again, that's pretty much everyone's problem right now. Will peg him as null for his Dormio vote, but urgh.
@Everyone: What do you think of the current cases on Omba, BT, huhwhat, now? Do you disagree or agree with them? Because seriously, everyone's trapped in their own box and are impossible to read.
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The stagnation is getting annoying. Be back in a few hours, doing some source-searching for a project
while 5 videos compress.
-cut by Affinity?-
Disagree with the case on Omba, disagree with the case on BT, agree with the case on HW.
BT reminds me of how I was playing last game somewhat, and so I can relate to that and see it as a town mindset. Additionally none of his cases seem forced.
Omba I haven't played with before but he feels town to me, again y acting similarly to how I played last game in terms of reasonings and such. Tunnel-vision isn't necessarily scummy, however I would like to see more cases from him. I'm not sure I see what you mean by D1 roleclaim bias though.
HW is one of those "they might be scum..." cases, I can agree with most of the points made but at the same time there's a lot of townie activity. Purely Conq I'd probably want to lynch but after HW replaced in he took a more active role. Seeing as most, if not all of the arguments against him are for his prior player, HW himself hasn't done anything worth a lynch.
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@IHNM: You say that you don't think HW has done anything worth a lynch so far. You say that you agree with Omba's thought processes and his case on huhwhat, which is based on HW's supposed bad reasoning for going after Omba, his fake pressing of me and other people to look active, and his lack of other vote targets... I'm not understanding your position here.
*facepalms* ... yeah I don't think anyone is reading this game carefully at all.
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You say that you agree with Omba's thought processes
*rereads what I wrote
Nope didn't say that. I will say that rereading the Omba/HW spat hasn't changed anything- I don't think that's worth lynching HW over, and the case on Omba I still don't agree with.
*facepalms* ... yeah I don't think anyone is reading this game carefully at all.
Echoing this sentiment.
I only posted now because 4 of the videos finished and i got a few sources.
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The Twenty-Sixth Votecount of ZA WARUDO
Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Action Dan, BT
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (2): I have no name, Serela
huh what (1): Omba
Omba (2): Affinity, huh what
I have no name (1): Dr. Rawr
Dormio (1): capt.h
Not voting: Mr. Bob, Chaore
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name
Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 52 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=8&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
Mod Note: Enough players have expressed family commitments to grant a 24 hour extension. The time between 12:00 am and 11:59 pm of Sunday the 8th will not be counted for prodvig actions. This is an exception that will only be granted once unless a new holiday is invented.
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Omba's noisy, tunnel-vision case on huhwhat
a) How is building on the case of your main suspect scummy?
b) tunnel-vision?
FoS: I have no name
BT is still scum
Err... no. But since you asked so nicely:
I have no name: Wa-FLAMINGO-ffle (#695 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813747.html#msg813747)), only clear read is on the obvlurker (which is incidentally also the only other real suspect huh what has apart from me)
Tars rawr (#705 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813845.html#msg813845)) with TAVROS reasoning and on very short notice (11 minutes between #701 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813840.html#msg813840) and #705; yes, because writing a post with actually useful content generally only takes 10 minutes. And that's assuming rawr would even look at the topic in that time.)
Says the guy who had been voting him for most of D1 is OMGUSing him when he votes him in first post of D2 (#709 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813904.html#msg813904), #712 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813912.html#msg813912)). Which is blatant TAVROS.
"has no cases of his own ever"
Then let me ask you this. Who pushed for Mr. Bob to be lynched first? (Hint: it shows this statement false)
Implying a case on the lollurker amounts to anything.
-cut by huh what-It was an attempt to de-stagnate the game, and generate discussion. Information helps town, which if there's no discussion going on then there's no information, hurting town. I can see why you'd think it's bad, but I had a perfectly pro-town reason for doing so.
COWPAT.
Rereading D1 with the flips in mind I think LLD is third party.
Third-party accusation wtf.
3 hours of nothing was relatively stagnated, especially compared to D1. I can see where you're coming from with my reason looking contrived, but the same action can be interpreted differently.
COWPAT.
Words! I hate your guts Shadoweh.
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Words.
Also I exist but barely have any time to do anything aaaaa
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#761 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg814124.html#msg814124) Lolexcuse for no read on Chaore. Point out the parts you can't read and Chaore might *gasp* be able to clarify them for you. I don't think he even had anything major editet besides his swearing. If that's a problem, just flarping replace every part that's been edited with a fitting swearword. Your reading comprehension does not seem nearly bad enough to make this horrible excuse work.
Also says huh what is town, then in his next post
agree with the case on HW.
Yeah, that totally fits together except it doesn't.
Seeing as most, if not all of the arguments against him are for his prior player, HW himself hasn't done anything worth a lynch.
Shows he hasn't actually read most of my posts D2 where I build a case on huh what based on his flarping play D2.
But he has a *gasp* TOWN-READ on me. If that's how you got your other town-reads, then they're worth jack-in-the-box.
his fake pressing of me and other people to look active
If that refers to this
Nitpicking[...]
, the point was not that he did it to look active.
Then there's still lots of other stuff to address :later:. Like the case on BT.
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So you expect me to have a perfect memory?
Poor Omba.
Poor, misguided Omba.
most =/= all, why do people seem to miss that.
Opinions change, arguments are made, etc.
On Chaore-read, swears have verbs, nouns, adjectives etc. Even after looking back in an attempt to understand I still don't have a read on him due to his posts being mostly rage-y.
On read from #695, I had plenty of town reads, only 1 scumread and I was unsre on half the playerlist. Since then I've formed opinions on most of the rest, but the ones who haven't posted/been referred to (ActionDan and Chaore) I'm unsure on.
Says the guy who had been voting him for most of D1 is OMGUSing him when he votes him in first post of D2
rawr's D2 vote felt like an OMGUS. D1 felt like an RVS vote because it was before wagons consolidated. Your point?
Implying a case on the lollurker amounts to anything.
Implying trying to lynch the people you find scummy amounts to nothing
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Omba #578: That interpretation is... absolutely forced, much like most of the dirt you have on me. That post wasn't even waffling. I maintain that I was just PLAYING THE GAME. Reactions and explanations help me read people.
It's pretty hilarious that Omba keeps harping on people for going after Bob today when a majority of his D1 was just focused on BT and Bob. His only other scumread toward the end of the day was on Chaore, which he never bothered to actually support and just kind of dropped after he said he needed to re-read Chaore.
Basically, Omba has to be a total ditz to be town at this point, as his day-to-day thoughts do not match up at all (Dan and Dorian are town -> unexplained Dan vote, Bob is probably lurkscum -> people parking on Bob are scum with no further analysis of Bob, Chaore looks a little scummy -> ..., BT is scum -> no comment until people are attacking others for dropping D1 reads, etc). Reading his posts in isolation shows very little consistency in his thoughts on any players other than the one he's currently tunneling on, and even his tunnelcases are pretty bad - it's rather apparent that they originate from him assuming scum first then just twisting everything his target says into being scummy without reading posts objectively, a reasonable way for scum to compensate for the inability to read posts from a neutral point of view. His #578 is a pretty solid example of him doing this.
Note that he also spent most of early D2 responding to my attacks but not Affinity's, which is quite ridiculous when Affinity and I did not have the exact same cases. Has he even responded to Affinity's specific points yet? I can't find any instances of him doing so.
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So you expect me to have a perfect memory?
Doesn't care whether what he thinks and says is based on what actually happened. If your memory is that bad, then you can just go re-read the relevant parts to check whether things actually are as you remembered them. Which you would do if you really cared about the conclusions they lead you to.
Poor Omba.
Poor, misguided Omba.
Attempt to discredit me. Also doesn't even attempt to justify his town-read on me in light of the disconnects I pointed out.
On Chaore-read, swears have verbs, nouns, adjectives etc. Even after looking back in an attempt to understand I still don't have a read on him due to his posts being mostly rage-y.
So? Still doesn't make reading edited posts all that hard. Again, your english is not nearly bad enough to justify that. And what in the fuck does rage have to do with being able to read posts? You can evaluate the things he has said no matter how ragey they are expressed. You're making it sound like he all said was "YOU GUYS SUCK, THIS GAME SUCKS, RRRAAAAGGEEEE". Which he did not.
Also still doesn't ask about any parts of Chaore's posts that may be unreadable to him, even though I pointed out that possibility to him.
rawr's D2 vote felt like an OMGUS. D1 felt like an RVS vote because it was before wagons consolidated. Your point?
Voting you all the way through D1 until he was forced to change his vote to someone else to secure a lynch = RVS vote. Err... no.
Implying trying to lynch the people you find scummy amounts to nothing
Not relevant to the point that was made.
--cut by huh what
Omba #578: That interpretation is... absolutely forced, much like most of the dirt you have on me. That post wasn't even waffling. I maintain that I was just PLAYING THE GAME. Reactions and explanations help me read people.
Tries to just brush aside the point I made.
WORDS
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Your point was awful, so yeah.
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This is the time I have no name gave rawr to post before tarring him btw.
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Honestly, I've got to agree that Omba's 758 is so ass-backwards that I don't even >_>;
He (HW) questions someone (Affinity) who did something so as to help him understand them and possibly influence his read on them, and... it's scummy because they're voting the same person as he is?
Just because Affinity is also voting Omba with Huhwhat doesn't mean he can't be scum and therefore should be completely excused from any attempts to be analyzed by other people wanting Omba lynched. I can't even begin to comprehend how what HW did isn't completely and entirely normal.
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Omba also seems to pull out every tiniest little detail and paint it in a scummy light :/
So it's IHNN's fault that Rawr didn't post for 24 hours, now? It's rawr's fault for not posting, IHNN shouldn't be obligated to say "Oh hey rawr by the way you haven't posted" and then wait awhile to see if he doesn't.
The part where most people think Rawr is town is a different matter, but that's not the point we're looking at here.
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It's pretty hilarious that Omba keeps harping on people for going after Bob today when a majority of his D1 was just focused on BT and Bob. His only other scumread toward the end of the day was on Chaore, which he never bothered to actually support and just kind of dropped after he said he needed to re-read Chaore.
D1 != D2 obviously. Also I have no name was accused of having no cases of his own and pointed to only Bob in response. And just... wtf, read the things I wrote again.
(quote shortened because :words:)
Basically, Omba has to be a total ditz[...] etc).
You haven't pointed out anything that actually does not fit together there.
(shortened)
Reading his posts[...] His #578 is a pretty solid example of him doing this.
Attempts to discredit my cases. And uh, maybe, just maybe, I limit myself to saying things that I deem important?
Also what? Where I have stated things that require assuming the person in question is scum beforehand to be valid? The example you point out is bullshit.
Note that he also spent most of early D2 responding to my attacks but not Affinity's, which is quite ridiculous when Affinity and I did not have the exact same cases. Has he even responded to Affinity's specific points yet? I can't find any instances of him doing so.
Responding to Affinity's case on me (specifically #667) would require me to give explanations that are not validable because I haven't stated them on D1. Which I pointed out in #675.
Also I'm pretty damn certain Affinity is town, so what good could come of that? I doubt I'll get lynched over this bullshit so unless people are idiots and try to do it, why bother wasting words on irrelevant things?
I want to get scum lynched. Period.
Your point was awful, so yeah.
Uh... no, that's not going to fly.
--cut by Serela
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Omba's current trend of posting makes me lean towards scum. I'll post later after 'swimming during spring break'; I'll answer questions, etc. then.
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So it's IHNN's fault that Rawr didn't post for 24 hours, now? It's rawr's fault for not posting, IHNN shouldn't be obligated to say "Oh hey rawr by the way you haven't posted" and then wait awhile to see if he doesn't.
Pray tell what happens if rawr later gets cleared as very likely town? By a cop claim, to name an easy example? And if that were to happen in LyLo? Exactly, scum would have a way to off someone who's town without needing town to agree on it. It's quite possible to be unable to post for 24 hours because of matters outside of the game.
Tarring is not a free vig shot and should not be treated as such because you cannot control when someone actually gets set on fire and you do not know what will hapen later on at the point you tar someone.
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He (HW) questions someone (Affinity) who did something so as to help him understand them and possibly influence his read on them, and... it's scummy because they're voting the same person as he is?
There's a difference between attacking someone for clearly scummy actions and nitpicking and you know that.
You go for little points when there's either nothing else (ED1) or you already suspect the person because of large points.
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Guys guys Guys guys Guys guys.
Let's not get lost in Omba's bosom altogether.
I have yet to look at this game since a day ago but I'm pretty sure there is more than Omba that exists. Look at the big picture at least once more.
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You haven't pointed out anything that actually does not fit together there.
Trailing off and forgetting about your opinions is not townie. If it is, then where's your conclusions on Chaore? He hasn't been lurking to the extent that you can't press his posts for anything worthwhile. The way you treated him is actually quite inconsistent with your general approach to scumhunting in this game.
Also what? Where I have stated things that require assuming the person in question is scum beforehand to be valid? The example you point out is bullshit.
Have you read your own cases? A lot of your points are nitpicky as hell and require a ton of stretching to come to a conclusion of scum intent, like whenever you accuse people of referring to you in any slightly negative or patronizing manner as ~ATTEMPTING TO DISCREDIT YOU~, or your entire #758.
Uh... no, that's not going to fly.
Not really, it's a reasonable response. Your point is bad, I've already addressed it, and if you're going to keep pressing your insanely backwards interpretation of my post then it's because you're scum and arguing about it with you would be a waste of time since I'm not going to convince you otherwise.
Dan cut: People weren't even paying attention to Omba until like a page ago. <_<
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Trailing off and forgetting about your opinions is not townie. If it is, then where's your conclusions on Chaore? He hasn't been lurking to the extent that you can't press his posts for anything worthwhile. The way you treated him is actually quite inconsistent with your general approach to scumhunting in this game.
Pretty townie. Now guess why I haven't addressed him D2.
Have you read your own cases? A lot of your points are nitpicky as hell and require a ton of stretching to come to a conclusion of scum intent, like whenever you accuse people of referring to you in any slightly negative or patronizing manner as ~ATTEMPTING TO DISCREDIT YOU~, or your entire #758.
That does not mean they require the assumption of the person in question being scum beforehand as you said they did. Everything I point out is either clearly scummy or scummy if scum / oh my god bad if town.
Since things that are oh my shadoweh bad if town in addition to clearly scummy things added together mean SCUM, I point them out. None of my cases save for ED1 are based on those smaller points alone.
Not really, it's a reasonable response. Your point is bad, I've already addressed it, and if you're going to keep pressing your insanely backwards interpretation of my post then it's because you're scum and arguing about it with you would be a waste of time since I'm not going to convince you otherwise.
Works for me - if other people get what I meant, that's enough.
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what happens if rawr later gets cleared as town...you don't know what will hapen later on at the point you tar someone.
Then rawr should be careful to avoid not posting 24 hours.
and neither do you know what will happen, so I don't know what you're so worried about. There's such a slim chance of anything coming of it anyway, it's a prod and that's all there is to it. If rawr were to not post for 24 hours again it'd be a modkill if it wasn't for the system our GREAT AND POWERFUL OVERLORD put in place, so it's a warning and further encouragement to post. Not buying your argument.
So? Still doesn't make reading edited posts all that hard. Again, your english is not nearly bad enough to justify that. And what in the fuck does rage have to do with being able to read posts? You can evaluate the things he has said no matter how ragey they are expressed.
rage clouds judgment so any conclusions drawn don't feel as accurate.
You're making it sound like he all said was "YOU GUYS SUCK, THIS GAME SUCKS, RRRAAAAGGEEEE". Which he did not.
mis-representation
Also still doesn't ask about any parts of Chaore's posts that may be unreadable to him, even though I pointed out that possibility to him.
Simply because I understood them.
Voting you all the way through D1 until he was forced to change his vote to someone else to secure a lynch = RVS vote. Err... no.
ED1 vote never removed =/= not RVS vote
Not relevant to the point that was made.
Then you aren't reading into it enough
D1 != D2 obviously. Also I have no name was accused of having no cases of his own and pointed to only Bob in response.
I pointed to Bob because that is the one case I spearheaded. You can't expect every player to start a case on someone because IF every player does this then every player started a case on exactly one other player. So not starting cases isn't necesarily bad, and yeah, I went with the easiest (read: scummiest) because at the time, Mr. Bob was scummy mcobvscum.
I'm going to go disappear for about 30 hours now, but I'll check back in in 15-ish to avoid the 'prod'
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Then rawr should be careful to avoid not posting 24 hours.
You're playing a team game here, even if you don't know who's on your team. Except if you're scum, so that makes sense.
and neither do you know what will happen, so I don't know what you're so worried about. There's such a slim chance of anything coming of it anyway, it's a prod and that's all there is to it. If rawr were to not post for 24 hours again it'd be a modkill if it wasn't for the system our GREAT AND POWERFUL OVERLORD put in place, so it's a warning and further encouragement to post.
HOOFBEAST POO POO. No reason to endanger town for absolutely no SBURB gain. If threatening to kill someone for lurking actually worked, there would be no lurkers.
And also, the normal system is modkill after two consecutive 24 hour periods without posting. That the system here is different DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO ENFORCE IT IF IT WON'T HELP TOWN WIN.
Not buying your argument.I pointed to Bob because that is the one case I spearheaded. You can't expect every player to start a case on someone because IF every player does this then every player started a case on exactly one other player. So not starting cases isn't necesarily bad, and yeah, I went with the easiest (read: scummiest) because at the time, Mr. Bob was scummy mcobvscum.
Yeah, you spearheaded the case on the obvlurker, as I said. Go re-read rawr's post that contains the initial accusation until you get what he actually meant.
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wait there was something inside that quote box argh
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Pretty townie. Now guess why I haven't addressed him D2.
So your response to your town read considering voting you for attacking for your #1 suspect (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813955.html#msg813955) is to ignore him completely, without questioning this and trying to convince him that you're right? How is this townie?
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[...]
rage clouds judgment so any conclusions drawn don't feel as accurate.
So if all posts are worded in a ragey manner, you're unable to conclude things based on them? If they just don't "feel as accurate", that's no reason not to use them at all.
"You're making it sound like he all said was "YOU GUYS SUCK, THIS GAME SUCKS, RRRAAAAGGEEEE". Which he did not."
mis-representation
See above.
"Also still doesn't ask about any parts of Chaore's posts that may be unreadable to him, even though I pointed out that possibility to him."
Simply because I understood them.
Not what you actually said.
"Voting you all the way through D1 until he was forced to change his vote to someone else to secure a lynch = RVS vote. Err... no."
ED1 vote never removed =/= not RVS vote
The FOOZBERRIES. Re-read what he wrote to find out he *gasp* still suspected you long after RVS had ended.
"Not relevant to the point that was made."
Then you aren't reading into it enough
FFFF- It means you're not actually scumhunting. Prodding a lurker does not qualify as scumhunting. You can of course do that, but if your main case is that then argh.
Oh by the way. You said conclusions drawn based on ragey posts don't feel as accurate. What conclusions do you draw from the posts I've made D2 so far, given that a lot of them are fairly ragey?
--cut by huh what
So your response to your town read considering voting you for attacking for your #1 suspect (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813955.html#msg813955) is to ignore him completely, without questioning this and trying to convince him that you're right? How is this townie?
I've been building a pretty massive case on you for a while now. He can read that and you use it to determine whether you are scum. If he still doesn't get it, he can ask me. If more votes are needed to secure your lynch later in the day, that is when I'd press other people to vote you.
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UNNNYYYAAAAAAAAA
WHAT THE FRACK IS THIS NOISE.
AFFINITY, HUH WHAT, OMBA, PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR CASES IN 100 WORDS OR LESS. JUST A NICE LITTLE SUMMARY THAT WON'T DEVOLVE INTO 3 PAGES OF TEXT WALLS.
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@capt.h: Simple; read here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813609.html#msg813609) + his exchange with huhwhat which I feel uses completely bonkers reasoning. Now, with all his volume now, I would normally suspect that his scumminess may warp back into towniness, but I don't think his D1 treatment of the claims as I outlined in the above post is redeemable.
@IHNM: Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813747.html#msg813747) you said that you agreed with Omba's though processes. But alright if you clarify that you don't like the Omba/HW spat either way.
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Why Affinity, one may ask?
That is a good question!
I'm going to try to make a post about it.
TRY HARDER.
HEY AFFINITY, YOU'VE BEEN READING.
HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT DORMIO SUPPLYING READS ON NO ONE (BUT YOU) WHILE ##FoSING YOU FOR A REASON HE HASN'T GIVEN YET WHILE PARKING HIS VOTE IS ON OBVTOWN.
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/headdesk FLOCK DANG it.
##Unvote
##Vote I have no name
Can't believe I got that locked into the thought that huh what absolutely has to be scum. That was FLIPPING awfully SILLY. huh what is town and I'm a FLAPPING idiot. FFFFF-
Basically scratch it, that whole case on him I had going was confirmation bias on steroids. Re-reading is a PUPPY.
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##Vote: Omba
i really see no reason not to do this holy POO POO what is this
I'm sorry but I originally only found the fact you opened up with a blank vote with mostly little on others, out of nowhere, on Conq and then really forcefully tried to keep your vote on conq when huhwhat replaced in but uh, then 756-758 happens and am I the only one who read that as you trying to fish something to attack Huhwhat for? The response seriously feels extremely forced like you just saw him say that and then -made POO POO up right on the spot-.
Most of the things you've done today are trying to get Huhwhat lynched by just tearing into everything he's said and done and
am i the only one seeing this here
omba looks like huhwhat killed his dog and wants vengeance made of firey rope and spikes
This really doesn't just seem like he thinks Huhwhat is scum because x, y, and z, It looks like he wants Huhwhat lynched because he's huhwhat.
I'm just kind of dazed reading this and maybe it's because I'm biased because Huhwhat scum for me is completely ridiculous and out of the question but jesus what i can't look at anything omba says without seeing a filter of 'Not even looking at the option of Huhwhat is town' and like his decision that Huhwhat is scum is so set in stone it just seems plain -scummy-.
also i've kind of recovered from my earlier outburst and would like to apologize.
@Rawr: I -will- admit that no, I did not get shadoweh and a chorus of angels raining from the heavens to give me this answer. I am not entirely SURE he is totally town. But this just kind of really makes me think he is so I'd prefer not to lynch him.
@Huhwhat: this is an excellent riposte. I was just mainly derping and didn't really recall the full clear and... that makes sense frankly.
@ombacut: ...
what
i'm not sure what to say to this happening now oww what
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what
mfw I re-read my whole spat with huh what. :/
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This Twenty-Seventh Votecount Is In No One's Bosom
Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Action Dan, BT
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (2): I have no name, Serela
huh what (0):
Omba (3): Affinity, huh what, Chaore
I have no name (2): Dr. Rawr, Omba
Dormio (1): capt.h
Not voting: Mr. Bob
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name
Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 45 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=8&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
Mod Note: The time between 12:00 am and 11:59 pm of Sunday the 8th will not be counted for prodvig actions.
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@IHNM: Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813747.html#msg813747) you said that you agreed with Omba's though processes. But alright if you clarify that you don't like the Omba/HW spat either way.
Yeah. I did. Right up until he started attacking huh what. The post where he votes me and basically clears huh what seems like he realized he was being tunnely...and decides to go tunnel on me. A lot of the points on me are really just nitpicking/playstyle differences.
@Omba
Your D2 is awful, just awful. I'm no longer able to look at your posts without thinking "this is so not obvtown"
Yeah so apparently I lied about disappearing for 30 hours because I'm here for a little bit now.
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This is in case I won't be around end of D2 ##Proxy: Omba. It acts as an automatic hammer vote, so only if Omba hits L-1 will this power take effect.
Omba's #675 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813646.html#msg813646) (after the second quote) I find highly suspect as outing a role (and not under pressure) and fishing for reactions is something a townie does in your opinion? And how would anyone think having a "fake-rampage" a good idea? Scum or Town?
@Omba: Did you ever make a case on BT? Going for NoName strikes me as easy new-town pickins'. Also, can you state your thought process on clearing Dan?
@Dormio: How do you feel about HW? Why?
@HW: How do you feel about BT? Why?
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I don't even know what I'm supposed to make out of Omba/HW shenanigans. (Still don't know what to make of LLD because she went "1V1 WITH BT TIME, BYE")
Dormio is pretty obscenely horrible though, so let's go with that!
Mr.Bob is also horrible.
Dormio/Mr.Bob/LLD are all pretty much lurkscumming it up but apparently LLD's play this game is something she just does?, Rawr barely exists but is apparently townish because oh I don't even care anymore, Omba is what, and then Affinity is...
WHY IS HALF OF THE GAME SCUM >:C This game this game this game this game. The people I just mentioned who are actually town need to stop lurking (Omba at least isn't guilty of this). Except tomorrow is easter so I guess several~all of them can't. Blah.
Ugh. Dormio/Bob/Omba are the worst of the bunch I guess. Except :C Because that doesn't include Affinity who should also be scum and...
Wait I haven't used any reasoning in this post. I must be reverting back to my old ways because the game is >:C. For awhile I was actually giving logic when I posted ;_;
Oh well don't care it's midnight I'm going to bed
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Scratch Bob out of the "worst" group and replace in, I don't know, someone else
still bad though
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Omba: Can you explain what exactly clicked with you when you re-read the argument (read: stating your thought process)? Though I'm thankful you're not tunneling on me, it doesn't change my prior suspicions against the gaps in your opinions, and I can see why scum would need to back down in this situation as well.
IHNN:
I'm no longer able to look at your posts without thinking "this is so not obvtown"
not related to alignment, but please never phrase a sentence like this ever again
you could have just said "After your D2, I can no longer read your posts in a townie light". instead, i had to wrap my head around like twenty fducking double negatives just to figure out what the crackers you were saying. seriously.
Bob: Uh, my opinion on him hasn't really changed since I posted about him during the BT vs LLD 1v1. Actually, it's kind of scary that both BT and LLD disappeared after that happened. <_< I wish they would post some :words: again. Dan too, it feels like he dropped off the radar after getting wagoned D1, even if he's very likely to be town.
Serela: Decisive opinions please. The game is crazy right now, and it is way too easy for scum to just say "everyone sure does look like scum!". Is Bob still the scummiest to you even though you just cited minor suspicions on a bunch of other players? Keep in mind that you're voting him. I don't think you ever answered me about Affinity, either. It feels like you made a big post and I missed it. Kind of tempted to withdraw my town read on you right now because your post is exactly how I would expect scum to post in the current situation.
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Also don't post something questionable then go to bed seriously
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I'm still here! Still here. It's just insanely hard to post over any weekend let alone this one (sedarrrrrrrrrrs, well that was friday but w/e).
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Your D2 is awful, just awful. I'm no longer able to look at your posts without thinking "this is so not obvtown"
So your read on me now is?
Omba's #675 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813646.html#msg813646) (after the second quote) I find highly suspect as outing a role (and not under pressure) and fishing for reactions is something a townie does in your opinion? And how would anyone think having a "fake-rampage" a good idea? Scum or Town?
Outing a role when not under much pressure is wtf, but certainly makes sense from certain points of view. I know I was close to going "fuck it" and doing just that in that fight with huh what. Yes, reaction fishing is something a townie can do. Depends on their style of play. As for the fake-rampage, the fake part was how I read it at that time.
@Omba: Did you ever make a case on BT? Going for NoName strikes me as easy new-town pickins'. Also, can you state your thought process on clearing Dan?
Haven't gotten to the case on D2 BT yet because of :tunnel: on huh what. For D1, I posted quite a lot on him. As for I have no name, I made it quite clear why I think his D2 reeks of scum. I'll get to his D1 later, though a lot about that has already been stated by other people. About Dan, re-read revealed that I had read him as townDan for most of D1 until stuff happened. The way I had read his reactions at that point was shit.
It's a meta thing, for the most part. townDan is usually pretty obvious. When he reacted in a way I didn't expect him to, I for some reason assumed it meant he had to be scum; when it actually only meant that he reacted in a way I didn't expect him to, but a town way nonetheless.
Serela stays open for all possible developments in his #801 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg814445.html#msg814445). Not liking it, though his other stuff was townie enough. Guess a re-read is in order.
Need words, yo.
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"Knock and the door shall be opened."
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Omba: Can you explain what exactly clicked with you when you re-read the argument (read: stating your thought process)? Though I'm thankful you're not tunneling on me, it doesn't change my prior suspicions against the gaps in your opinions, and I can see why scum would need to back down in this situation as well.
Since capt. h asked for a concise case, I went back and re-read everything Conq and you had posted starting from D1. For D1, I noticed that Conq's play was not nearly as scummy as I had thought it was. Noticed that I also did not think he was scum for it on D1. Then I came to the first post where I actually voted for him and thought "huh? That doesn't make nearly as much sense as I thought it did." With this in mind, I re-read our whole spat that followed and saw that pretty much everything I was flinging at you was shitty. Also noticed that you didn't react to it in a way I'd expect scum to. So at that point my whole case and read on you pretty much came crashing down and I was left thinking "well shit. He actually is town wtf was I doing." So yeah.
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##Unvote
This day has been absolutely chaotic, and I believe that's probably a strong sign we should step back, re-read the game and organize our current opinions. Ideally, the extension will leave everyone enough time to consolidate and create some decent wagons even after reassessing their suspects.
I have a list of people I'd lynch today (weakest read to strongest read), but it needs to be its own post for wordcount reasons. Also, taking this out of the bottom of the post for wordcount reasons: when I post it, you'll probably notice that Bob is missing from that list. I still believe his D1 reflects poorly on him, but I wouldn't actually consider him a good lynch today - he's basically been the go-to votepark for people trying to look like they're doing something, namely, Serela and Nameless. This is different from situations like Kaori last game in that the people who "suspect" Bob aren't even pushing to get him lynched. It's way too easy for anybody to just jump on without justification if we try to push the matter. If something is done about him any time soon, I'd rather it be a nightvig.
Also, this is why wordcounts are awful. There's no real point to them if people are just going to find exploits. I haven't felt that this game was any easier to read than games without wordcounts, either - this includes the last one, even though it was wordy as hell.
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somebody pls post :( :( :( :( :fail: :wikipedia:
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My computer is exploding.
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THANK YOU
okay, so
- Dormio - I'm starting to worry he's not reading the thread, for providing no concrete opinions on lynches other than Dan's and generally brushing aside the people poking at him. I believe the only time he posted and explained a serious suspicion of a player recently was when he talked about BT, but he hasn't mentioned that since, and he hasn't expanded on his Dan case or attempted to refute the reasons people are clearing Dan (I know I posted mine). Still waiting on that Affinity case.
- Nameless - His suspicions on Bob and rawr were never pushed further he initially posted them, so they're starting to look more like posts he can point to when people say he isn't scumhunting rather than actual reads. Would vote him because it doesn't look like he's truly paying attention to scumhunting, just that he's handing out minor, waffly comments on what's popular when asked for opinions.
- Omba - Though he gets points for backing down against me with a reasonable explanation, there's still reason for scum to do the same thing, so it doesn't put him in the clear just yet. I still believe his D1 - D2 inconsistencies are suspicious enough that he's a good lynch target. I'd like him to explain his priorities between BT and Nameless while he's here - the Nameless vote is rather surprising since a lot of his earlier focus has been on BT.
- Serela - After Dan's claim, I thought his D1 strongly leaned townie, but this D2 has been bad. Serela's management of his Affinity case is totally spineless; giving up on trying to push Affinity's lynch due to a lack of support less than 48 hours into the day is unnecessarily defeatist and not how town get their scum reads lynched. If anything, it gives me the impression he didn't want to be accused of tunneling on a mislynch he couldn't obtain. The Bob votepark is totally unimpressive - this especially stands given his most recent post, where he dropped Bob as one of the worst players while keeping his Bob vote down, and yet still neglected to respond to my request for him to expand on his Affinity case. It just looks like he's completely apathetic about finding scum and getting them lynched.
##Vote Serela
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The Twenty-Eight Votecount Is Exploding
Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Action Dan, BT
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (2): I have no name, Serela
huh what (0):
Omba (2): Affinity, Chaore
I have no name (2): Dr. Rawr, Omba
Dormio (1): capt.h
Serela (1): Huh what
Proxy on: Omba
Not voting: No one!
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name
Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 40 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=9&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
Mod Note: The time between 12:00 am and 11:59 pm of Sunday the 8th will not be counted for prodvig actions.
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Warning - while you were reading 49 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
I totally haven't been sitting on this post for a day.
how he could still think Dan scum despite being the main counterwagon to an anti-cult vig
I don't see how this would change my opinion.
I echo the need for Dormio to give out reads on people who aren't Dan
I'll just make an opinion post.
capth - Don't dislike him.
Affinity - First of all, there's that whole Serela vote that I always thought was a bit off. I know Affinity says later that he thought it sufficed for a D1 case but he also states in #158 that he isn't convinced in his own opinion of Serela due to the amount of noise Serela is making. In #207 Affinity continues to snipe at Serela whilst unvoting him. From this point on, despite having never given a clear opinion in regards to Serela, Affinity seems to just forget about Serela which makes me wonder how genuine his feelings were.
There's also how Affinity handled the whole DorianDan thing. Something about the way that he follows up the next day in #643 about how any movement between the wagons is WIFOM, but his movement, voting Dorian can't fit the scum agenda. Isn't that just more WIFOM he's invoking?
I also find Affinity dropping his BT case to be very curious. I mean there was nothing to suggest that Affinity wanted to drop his BT case and, in fact, Affinity talks about how he feels that BT is exaggerating in his case against Chaore yet Affinity seems to forget completely about BT when the second day begins.
Later into the day, he's questioned about this drop on BT and Serela to which he responds with nothing conclusive.
Serela - Thought something felt off, didn't find anything I particularly disliked.
DrRawr - Kind of a thing but I like him.
ActionDan - Scumzorz. Upon several reconsiderations, whatever.
##Unvote
I will assert that he's being bad and should post or something but whatever. In particular his behaviour with the whole Dorian thing and him not voting for Dorian since he thought Dorian was town despite being the counterwagon thing whatever.
Omba&Chaore - Haven't read.
ConqHW - Don't dislike.
IHNN - Don't think I like him. Will reread in depth later.
Mr. Bob - A thing, but I don't particularly dislike him.
BT - Reread indepth later.
LLD - Reread yesterday. Didn't dislike.
Whatever.
##Vote Affinity
Firetruck Firetruck
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@Dormio:
1) Serela did not post anything of importance in D1 from the time we had our exchanges until the switches at the end of day wagons. You can't possibly expect me to hold onto the Serela vote through the Dorian-Dan-BT fiasco for my original ED1 reasons, or even form a concrete opinion after that. I doubt most of the playerbase D1 had a solid read on him in the first place, including you.
2) In #643 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813517.html#msg813517), I said they were more than WIFOM due to the presence of the anti-cult vig, and scum not wanting to lynch him if possible; this is precisely why I voted Omba. I don't think you have read my case (or many of my posts deeply for that matter).
3) I talked about BT extensively D2 here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813635.html#msg813635) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813970.html#msg813970) as my second scumpick. It's not as if BT has done anything of note other than return LLD's favour and go on V/LA anyways, and all that's left is to judge him by his D1 actions, which I still don't feel to be good.
In any case, I'm not impressed with your lack of currency on the current cases (which you had 24 hours to read), your refusal to answer my question here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813756.html#msg813756) for the fourth MARMALADE time, or your case on me, which contain's major inaccuracies.
===
I don't know if I'm supposed to be impressed about Omba's sudden attainment of Nirvanna in the form of his lackluster IHNM case when I, huhwhat, and even Serela (!) had already pointed out stuff wrong with his case a long time ago! The story of capt.h (of all people) descending from the heavens to lead Omba to the light (summarize your case!) may be somewhat touching in some circles, but I call VEGEMITE and will remain steadfast with my vote.
Oh, but what if the Omba lynch doesn't come into frution? LLD, Dan, BT and rawr aren't here and have not done anything of use! Chaore came in to jump on the Omba wagon, discarding all his previous reads! Dormio tunneled for 80% of the game and has not read it since! Serela is useless! This game is full of people who are impossible to read and don't give two BOVRIL about the game; it pisses me off and town might as well go die in a fire at this rate.
##Open the Box
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your refusal to answer my question here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813756.html#msg813756) for the fourth licking time
What the firetruck do you want from me?
I've said that I do not understand how being the counterwagon to the anti-cult vig clears Dan.
I'll address the rest later when it's not midnight.
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Not sure what to think of yesterday's wagons, but Dorian's claim makes the movements between wagons more than WIFOM. I'm quite sure scum would have wanted the anti-cult vig to live over other townies, which partially explains the sudden swelling of the Dan wagon to L-1 as at least half of them shifted to the Dan wagon. I think this is pretty strong evidence that Dan is town, and that people who suddenly came in to vote for Dan without much prior reasoning, such as Serela (though that LLD vote makes me feel a bit better), rawr, Omba, deserve scrutiny.
Will be back with a vote soon.
3) Those who unvoted and persisted in doing so after Dan got to L-1 are probably town (rawr, maybe Serela but he's confusing and was waffly over his position on Dan)
Really now?
@Everyone: What do you think of the current cases on Omba, BT, huhwhat, now? Do you disagree or agree with them? Because seriously, everyone's trapped in their own box and are impossible to read.
The amount of buddying up with huhwhat and trying to create noise about omba/bt seem really scummy to me.
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Since town is lacking in motivation right now I might want to note that
we're almost 24 hours to deadline and not consolidated as MILKSHAKE.
##Unvote since I pushed for this lynch for TOO long now and no one is looking past their cute little towntells (or even worse - "uhh i don't dislike?" or "uhh idk?" waffles) and I want a wagon that isn't on town and will actually WORK this time around.
HW is town because Conq was town, especially after that exit. Dormio is ye olde tunneltown. Dan is town. Capt.h was "lol obvtown" but I honestly don't know anymore, same goes with Rawr, but they're definitely better than some others and I'm leaning town. IHNN is also leaning town because his play doesn't match what I'd expect from IHNN newbscum and I already went over this. Mr. Bob is leaning town and his proxy vote helps this opinion I guess?? And Chaore's latest posts leave me with a pretty good vibe, can't really explain it, not in a hurry to lynch him like before.
Which leaves Omba, Serela, Affinity. And LLD but I don't see potential for a LLD wagon anywhere now do I? Seriously half the town isn't interested and I can't explain it without "they're lazy". Can't really blame them but honestly. -_-
Next post I make will have opinions on those last three. And if I can't find scum there then I might as well trash all my reads and start over. !_! Or I just force people like Capt.h and Rawr to stop being so goddamn forgettable. I mean seriously Rawr is STILL going on about IHNN scum despite this getting absolutely nowhere and all he's been doing aside from that is pointing out contradictions without reaching any deep conclusions, which means he's mentioning them for the sake of mentioning them and letting other people reach the conclusions he didn't bother voicing. And you know what? This is scummy. But if I look into other people I'm sure I can reach similar conclusions. IN FACT I'm pretty sure I can relate some of this to my own actions, which means Rawr may be an unmotivated townie just like myself and half the game.
I'm with Affinity. This game is unreadable.
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...~~~'''~~TOWNIE MOTIVATION~~'''~~~...
have a video of shadoweh irl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeU9TykllEk) if it helps
I'm trying to play the game! It's just VERY DIFFICULT to get reads when only a select few people are posting coherently or talking about players other than their pet cases. I wish Serela wouldn't make scummy posts before going to bed.
BT, why is Dormio's tunneling townie?
Affinity, out of the people who are terrible and not Omba, which do you actually think make good lynches / are likely to flip scum, if any? Same question I gave Serela.
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Ey, you're definitely not included in the lazy townie town half.
The kind of disconnect of "I'm going to stay on my vote although it's probably going NOWHERE" (in this case, pretty much everyone thinks Dan is town), which he very recently tried fixing, is what he did in pretty much every game I recall playing here. Except for Imp, in which he was mafia, and in which instead of Dormiotunneling he was a lot more passive, something I do not see in this game.
It's strange, I really feel like procrastinating RIGHT AFTER I POSTED A *MOTIVATION* POST. :wat: :wat:
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It's strange, I really feel like procrastinating RIGHT AFTER I POSTED A *MOTIVATION* POST. :wat: :wat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE
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I think the difference between that and the other games where Dormio has done this is that here it doesn't seem like he's actually doing anything to try to convince the other players when they question him on his case and attitude. He just kind of brushes them aside, and I find this suspicious.
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Hi again. Got some time now.
First off, BT and Serela should not be things today. If we're gonna consolidate wagons, let's start there.
Second, I am NOT happy with most of the wagons. I'd like Dormio dead, and I can get behind an Affinity lynch. But I'm having a hard time seeing the scum behind LLD, No Name, Omba, and Bob. LLD I can kind of understand because I admit she's a tough cookie to read, but I can't say I find the other three particularly scummy. Maybe its gut, But No Name and Omba don't know how to SHUT UP at all when they're pressured which is a KINDA REALLY BAD QUALITY FOR SCUM (i.e. wrap around to townieness Affinity mentioned.) And then there's Bob, who clearly has a reason for the worst of his play and is NOT subtle about it.
But I don't mind lynching Affinity AT ALL because of lots of reasons. For one, it feels like Affinity is judging people as scummy not for their overall behavior, but primarily based on single instances of HERP DERP that even I'm having trouble seeing as scummy. His day 1 Serela case? That wanting to minimize the chance the box gets into scum hands and wanting to pass the box to the towniest person was a logical contradiction. His Omba case's primary tenant is that Omba didn't like Action Dan's claim but liked Dorian's claim, which is a position that is scummy.
I THINK HE'S VOTING BAD LOGIC OVER EVERYTHING ELSE. There are other things that annoyed me about his play, specifically asking me about my read on Bob when the day before I already told him I had a town read on Bob (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812416.html#msg812416), (although I can understand thinking that might have changed), and putting words into my mouth when he said I thought Conq was town day 1 (he similarly put words into No Name's (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=78) mouth, which No Name calls him out on) but the primary issue I have with him is he's using MURDER THE BAD LOGIC as a proxy for scum hunting.
ANYWAY, I'm totally cool with lynching Affinity, but I'm not super happy with Dormio after his "I Don't Dislike Anybody except Dan and Affinity" reads. Why? It's basically "Affinity did something scummy! But I don't have any thoughts on anyone else." There was no reason for him to mention me, Serela, Rawr, Omba, Chaore, Huh What, No Name, Bob, BT, OR LLD except MAYBE to fill up space on the page.
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Shadoweh's Gourmet Race Twenty-Ninth Votecount
Action Dan (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Action Dan
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (2): I have no name, Serela
huh what (0):
Omba (2): Affinity, Chaore
I have no name (2): Dr. Rawr, Omba
Dormio (1): capt.h
Serela (1): Huh what
Affinity (1): Dormio
Proxy on: Omba
Not voting: BT
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name, Affinity
Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 25 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=9&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
Mod Note: The time between 12:00 am and 11:59 pm of Sunday the 8th will not be counted for prodvig actions. At least 6 people are confirmed absent today.
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1) Serela did not post anything of importance in D1 from the time we had our exchanges until the switches at the end of day wagons. You can't possibly expect me to hold onto the Serela vote through the Dorian-Dan-BT fiasco for my original ED1 reasons, or even form a concrete opinion after that. I doubt most of the playerbase D1 had a solid read on him in the first place, including you.
His reactions to my case in the form of OMGUS however, isn't encouraging, and cemented my scumread on him.
I dunno about you, but that looks like a pretty solid opinion.
2) In #643 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813517.html#msg813517), I said they were more than WIFOM due to the presence of the anti-cult vig, and scum not wanting to lynch him if possible; this is precisely why I voted Omba. I don't think you have read my case (or many of my posts deeply for that matter).
Whatever. Doesn't change the fact that I don't particularly like how you paint your own actions in the townie light. Why Omba over Serela?
3) I talked about BT extensively D2 here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813635.html#msg813635) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813970.html#msg813970) as my second scumpick. It's not as if BT has done anything of note other than return LLD's favour and go on V/LA anyways, and all that's left is to judge him by his D1 actions, which I still don't feel to be good.
I don't know about BT; the beef I had with him D1 still stands, though not as pressing as it was then due to the wagon thing. I'm reading his completely useless LLD counterwagon attempt to be a nulltell, and I'll have to see further content from him.
Will just say that if I had to go for one of them in their 1v1, I would go for BT.
I don't see how these are explaining how BT is your second scumpick. In the first one, you basically reserved judgement on both BT and Serela. And in the second one, all you said that BT was a better lynch than LLD and it's also implied that you wouldn't go for either outside of the 1v1 being forced or something.
Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck
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Which leaves Omba, Serela, Affinity. And LLD but I don't see potential for a LLD wagon anywhere now do I? Seriously half the town isn't interested and I can't explain it without "they're lazy". Can't really blame them but honestly. -_-
I'd be behind an LLD wagon. In fact I'd be fine with a lynch on any of them.
Bob's proxy being an official thing is interesting. I think he's playing Donald Trump which means absolutely nothing. Still want to see him lynched but I'd be willing to move him back on the priority queue.
In other news, I'm back for all of ten minutes before disappearing for at least 12 hours.
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@Dormio:
1) You can't possibly expect me to hold onto the Serela vote through the entirety of D1 based on a logic contradiction and OMGUS (I switched to Conq). You quoted a post from ED1.
2) Where did that come from? You have got to be kitten me about choosing Omba over Serela. See 1).
3) ... granted, but I still feel BT to be scummy due to his D1.
You can't answer a "Why X?" question with "because I don't!", either, Dormio.
@rawr: I can change my opinion and the latter one is one I stand by. And noise about Omba/BT? It's a case you have to address, and you aren't even making a single f***ing sound! Answer the question.
@capt.h: You are not reading my Omba case, which is not based on bad logic and which is based on scum intent. Just look at the four preambles I made in this Omba case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg813609.html#msg813609) of mine. If you want to disagree with them, do so directly, don't put me under the giant shade of 'trying to lynch people for logic contradictions'. There's also a reason why I dropped the Serela case for the Conq case in D1; precisely because I realized it was outdated. I don't think I particularly wanted him lynched by the end of the day.
@IHNM: I think Omba had already posted 3 posts on HW by then.
===
@huhwhat: This is a puzzle. Chaore stands out to me as scum!coasting with his token opinions and his Omba jump late in the day; I think he stands a good chance of flipping scum if we can get behind him. Dormio's escape from his tunnelvision with a case on me does not comfort me, and his ignorance of issues with the Dan case back at the start of D2 and his lack of scope is an issue. BT is also scummy as I said before in D1, but my opinion will change according to his new posts. So it would be something like Omba > Chaore > Dormio for me. Bob and capt.h have become better, and I still believe in rawr despite that awkward change onto me. LLD is still an enigma and I have no idea what to think of her; though I wouldn't want to lynch her today.
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what question?
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You can't answer a "Why X?" question with "because I don't!", either, Dormio.
First off, I still have no idea what you're expecting from me.
You're asking why I thought that Dan was scum, despite him being the counterwagon to an anti-cult vig, and I'm telling you that I have no idea how being the counterwagon to an anti-cult vig even excludes him from being scum in the first place.
So what the firetruck do you want from me in regards to this?
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...ARG.
Alright, I now understand Affinity's case.
I don't like your preambles very much, to be honest. First, I'm not convinced scum particularly cared that Dorian was an anti-cult vig. Second, I'm not convinced scum had anything to do with the swell on Dan's wagon. And the reason for that is simply because I looked at Rawr, Serela, and Omba individually, and I'm not convinced any of them are scum or particularly scummy. To use an Umineko reference, one of us is looking at the chessboard, and the other flipped the chessboard.
I admit, part of the problem I have with Dormio and part of the reason I think he's scum is that he isn't able to see Dan in a town perspective. I don't mean your reason:
2) Dan is probably town due to claim and because the Dan wagon swelled to L-1 after I tied it 4-4, implying that scum may be behind the move.
I mean Dan was playing in blatant disregard for his own survival. For him to be scum he would have to be insane. I would expect scum to have a hard time seeing it though.
Anyway, I don't think I agree with two of your preambles, namely, that the vote surge on Dan was scum motivated, and that Dan should be cleared because of it. Dan should be cleared because his play in response to his wagon makes no sense for scum, not because of the surge.
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Why is Serela unlynchable? Yes, his D1 looked pretty town at the start of today but it's like nobody is reading his incredibly scummy D2 because of that.
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WELL, I suppose you COULD lynch him. I would just be :( about it because I don't think he's scum, and he hasn't done anything I wouldn't expect from town Serela. EXCEPT MAYBE POST COHERENTLY ON DAY 1.
ANYWAYS, IF A PLAYER ALWAYS LOOKS SCUMMY FOR THE SAME REASON, THAT TELL NO LONG APPLIES TO HIM. Because Serela is ALWAYS KING OF THE WAFFLES, and because he ALWAYS catches suspicion for it, I can't use his waffly behavior as a tell. So he had a really awesome day 1 and a Serela day 2. I need something non-Serela and scummy before I consider him a good lynch idea.
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I hate that mindset because it encourages people not to improve their play. If you want to play meta, then go read Serela's D2 town play from last game, which is completely different from the way he's been handling his Affinity case today. Being Serela doesn't make him not scummy. Him waffling isn't even the reason I suspect him. Read my posts.
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I admit, part of the problem I have with Dormio and part of the reason I think he's scum is that he isn't able to see Dan in a town perspective. I don't mean your reason:
I mean Dan was playing in blatant disregard for his own survival. For him to be scum he would have to be insane. I would expect scum to have a hard time seeing it though.
ActionDan - Scumzorz. Upon several reconsiderations, whatever.
##Unvote
I will assert that he's being bad and should post or something but whatever. In particular his behaviour with the whole Dorian thing and him not voting for Dorian since he thought Dorian was town despite being the counterwagon thing whatever.
Where whatever means that I'm dropping my suspicion of him. Well, could have been phrased much better, but whatever.
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I hate that mindset because it encourages people not to improve their play. If you want to play meta, then go read Serela's D2 town play from last game, which is completely different from the way he's been handling his Affinity case today. Being Serela doesn't make him not scummy. Him waffling isn't even the reason I suspect him. Read my posts.
You do remember that he had Dorian hydraing with him, right?
I'm all for encouraging people to improve their play WHENEVER I think it will further my win condition.
Although... I'm rereading Serela's day 2 and it's making me cry. Because I really don't think his day 1 was scummy at all, so much so that I hadn't seriously CONSIDERED that he could change his mind and become totally... his day 2. BECAUSE HE WAS ON MY FIRETRUCKING TOWN LIST. HEY SERELA, WHY THE FIRETRUCK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGpLHj-MVtk) DID YOU WAIT 2 DAYS TO VOTE BOB WHEN AFFINITY WAS SCUM?
Sorry about that, it seems there was a bit of miscommunication between the point you were trying to make and the point I understood. AND I CAN'T MAKE HEADS OR TAILS OF WHETHER I'M READING SCUM OR SUPER DERP TOWN.
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Right, I forgot.
This is why NeoSerela is probably town. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg812660.html#msg812660)
Still immensely annoyed at him after the reread of his day 2, but I think he's town.
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And no, I do NOT consider Serela a viable lynch.
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I don't find his switch as amazingly townie as Rawr's because of how quick he was to withdraw it. Serela's didn't actually force him to commit to a fakeclaim.
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It's not about whether he withdrew it or not, it's about the fact that Serela immediately and reflexively unvoted Dan.
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Alright, I may have misunderstood, because when you said "withdraw", I thought you meant how quickly he returned to voting for Dan. Point is, he unvoted Dan before Dan even finished explaining the details of the claim. Serela's instant reflex to the claim means he's town.
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And no, I do NOT consider Serela a viable lynch.
QFT. Serela's D1 was very townie and he's not about to change alignments in between (no bastard mod... maybe). His day 2 seems bad because he doesn't have much direction and it shows, but that's not a scummy trait when lots of people are not available etc.
Omba doesn't read as scum. Really he doesn't.
Is there magical reasons to consider LLD town btw? Because I'd like to hear them.
LLD went after BT due to what she felt was BT fabricating a case on her. Said case was majorly influenced by LLD's own reasons for labeling me as obvscum after voting Dormio and suspecting herself. LLD claims that she voted me for 'manufacturing' cases/reads on both herself and Dormio, and that BT misrepped this point of contention. Let's look back:
I do believe I explained why they were manufactured.
The copying and buddying of your poor case, followed by the out of nowhere unsubstantiated and misguided "cases" on me and Dorian are enough for me to be certain he manufactured them as a method of survival rather than out of actual scumhunting.
This quote refers to (LLD must have meant Dormio in place of Dorian there) ----->
Dan is pretty much conf. scum for deciding that I was a scum read mere minutes after BT votes me. He couldn't express this read earlier because....? There's no good answer to that question. Dan in pretty scum.
Also, that Dormio vote is really off base considering he has BARELY TALKED ABOUT DORMIO EITHER. I honestly don't know where Dan is getting his reads from, except that I do.
Dan is scum.
Not too clear, but just the logic of production, and in any case, it is a different idea of what his doctor of law. Legal content and claim that their content, and (this is totally unfounded and misleading services not aiza sorrow and I) analysis of cases on the basis of circumstantial evidence. It is bad enough in itself, but I think that is a doctor of laws, BT launched BT continues to seriously try to detect this information (for example on the face or know where BT # 466 scum in or in reading and play doctor IHNN 1v1 laws to combat
(I dreamt last night HW is still a Rascal. Already. A bit strange. )
I forgot this one. My problem is enabled. Apparently this roleblocker residues. Deep thoughts.
Wordcount: 460. Heil Hitler!
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A la hell, if I want to go back. Nazi BHO
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Have some words.
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Append this to the end of the last quote.
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Besides it not being obvious at all she's claiming that I am manufacturing reads explicitly, there is no reasoning as to why LLD thinks the cases were off other than their timing. LLD is using circumstantial evidence in place of analyzing content, while later trying to claim that the cases were manufactured based on their content as well (e.g 'out of nowhere unsubstantiated and misguided "cases" on me and Dorian'). This in itself is bad enough, but I find it disingenuous that LLD throws it back in BT's face as BT keeps trying draw attention to it (e.g BT's #466
I'm not sure where LLD's scum reads of me or IHNN went either while she plays 1v1 vs BT.
(Also I dreamt HW was scum last night. It was. kinda weird.)
Also I just remembered. The way my action resolved. It's VERY likely Scum doesn't have a roleblocker. food for thought.
My words were so much better.
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Late Night Thirtieth Stress Votecount
Action Dan (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Action Dan
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (2): I have no name, Serela
huh what (0):
Omba (2): Affinity, Chaore
I have no name (2): Dr. Rawr, Omba
Dormio (1): capt.h
Serela (1): Huh what
Affinity (1): Dormio
Proxy on: Omba
Not voting: BT
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name, Affinity
Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 17 hours remaining. Or you could hammer faster!
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=9&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
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I don't agree that Serela's D1 was so townie it meant that he couldn't possibly be scum. It was worthy of an early town read. That's it. Serela's reaction to your clam isn't even something that would be hard for scum to simulate for town cred. He didn't devote himself to a fakeclaim like rawr did. Posting kneejerk reactions does not instantly make you unlynchable, neither does being noisy. I have no idea where people are getting these weird universal towntells from, nothing Serela has done would be difficult for scum to pull off, unlike rawr/Dan. Again, it was worth an early town read, but it doesn't justify his D2.
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Also, I could even argue that him kneejerk unvoting, then revoting later is SCUMMY because it originates from him trying to force a towntell without thinking about the implications. That's usually how the scenario plays out when I post a kneejerk reaction as scum; I later realize "wow, that was stupid" and have to take it back. I think this is bullshit and wouldn't really push it as a point, though, but it's the same kind of bullshit as kneejerk reactions making you an unlynchable townie so yeah.
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@rawr: Opinions on the current wagons apart from me and IHNM (is he still a thing to you?), obviously.
@capt.h, Dormio: At the time where Dorian/Dan were at 4-7, only BT, Bob, Dan, and Chaore were unaccounted for, two of which did not want to lynch either Dan/Dorian. I seriously doubt that scum could have lost control over the wagons in such a manner as to leave Dorian at four votes (one of them flipped town) if Dan is scum. Also, an anti-cult vig would be valuable to scum to leave alive so as to have them a higher chance of rooting out cult in addition to their NK and whatever secondary roles they have. I'm inclined to believe that they would have rather went for Dan than Dorian.
Regarding Serela, I agree with capt.h on the town value of Serela's unvote late in D1. He is indeed terrible today (and yesterday) for all the usual Serela reasons, but in the field of around 8 terrible people I'm not willing to lynch him for the above alone. I'm also inclined to think his constant Affinity waffling as a complete nulltell since it doesn't give any discernible benefit to him and he could have easily discarded it a long time ago, so his sins seem to be restricted to voting Bob and being detached from the day in general, which is what a lot of people seem to be doing now. I think lynching Serela is a waste today, given other options.
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I so don't have time to do this.
-sigh-
Dan, my scum read of you went all of nowhere. But it's pointless to place my vote on you when no one will lynch you for the moment.
I'm just going to bide my time until people stop derping about claims, and start listening.
That problem doesn't exist with BT, who does a lot of the same things you do.
Beyond that, I don't have much else to say, mostly because of time constraints.
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Friendly Time Reminder
Votes have not changed.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 12 hours remaining. Or you could hammer faster!
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=9&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
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We aren't lynching BT, we aren't lynching Serela, and we aren't NO LYNCHING.
Huh What, LLD, BT, PLEASE move your votes.
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I had a post typed up but then I lost it so I'm jujst going to hit the basic points of it because that's all I remember.
Bob is no longer scummiest IMO, the lack content annoys me but bad content is worse than no content.
##Unvote
Serela is null/bad except a few posts, probably derptown.
Affinity put words in my mouth which I really don't like, but I'm willing to chalk it up to an honest mistake. Shaky town.
LLD's lack of D2 content other than "1v1 with BT" is irksome for some reason.
rawr has had very little content and very little of it has been passable. D1 was all box-talk/GIVE ME THE BOX, with the exception of voting Affinity asking for the box first post and then switching to me for BS reasons url=http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811247.html#msg811247]here[/url]. After I tried to clear the misunderstanding I don't believe rawr ever unvoted except to ensure a lynch. D2 started with, IMO, an OMGUS vote for a prod.
I'm short on time and words so ##Vote: Dr. Rawr
@mod: editing the posts makes them infinitely harder to understand, perhaps linking to an unedited version would be better for gameplay reasons?
Perhaps you should ask your fellow players to follow the rules if they're making it hard to understand them.
HEY GUYS STOP SWEARING AND FOLLOW THE WORDCOUNT
I'M SHEEPING THE MOD WOO
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WE AREN'T LYNCHING RAWR EITHER.
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I'd like him to explain his priorities between BT and Nameless while he's here - the Nameless vote is rather surprising since a lot of his earlier focus has been on BT.
I would prefer an I have no name lynch over a BT one; I want to see both dead, but my scum read of I have no name is stronger.
BT's day 1 was worse than his D2, and the reverse is true for I have no name. Which shows in the amount of words I used on each (haven't actually said anything about BT on D2 I think, except that he's still scum).
Btw,
Which leaves Omba, Serela, Affinity. And LLD but I don't see potential for a LLD wagon anywhere now do I? Seriously half the town isn't interested and I can't explain it without "they're lazy". Can't really blame them but honestly. -_-
Next post I make will have opinions on those last three.
This is a thing that hasn't happened so far.
Blargh there's a lot of stuff unadressed but I need sleep. So my stances on the people that currently have any votes:
I have no name: Preferred lynch, very clearly scummy
BT: Second pick, also scummy, somewhat less so than I have no name
LLD: Do not lynch. Ever.
Bob: ... Still a lurker, would lynch over all "do not lynch" things, but he's been reading less scummy today.
Dormio: Do not lynch. Reads like townDormio.
Serela: There's that thing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg814445.html#msg814445) which damaged the town read I had on him, but overall don't want to see him lynched; would lynch Bob over him.
Affinity: Do not lynch.
I'll most likely be back like 2-3 hours before deadline.
--double cut
Rawr: Do not lynch. Ever.
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I'll be back before deadline but I don't have any scum reads that come close to LLD.
I'm still wondering why people believe her to be town.
I could support a Bob lynch. and.. mayyyyybe a chaore lynch. but why bother when LLD is just hangin out.
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Might as well mention for no explicable reason that if Huhwhat + Affinity survive a few more days I suggest policy lynches. ~Never Forget~.
^I bet that will make HuhWhat go <_<. You could always try harder to lynch LLD, that would make me happy.
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D1 was all box-talk/GIVE ME THE BOX, with the exception of voting Affinity asking for the box first post and then switching to me for BS reasons here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg811247.html#msg811247).
EBWOP
WE AREN'T LYNCHING RAWR EITHER.
If we listen to everyone who says "we aren't lynching X" then we aren't lynching anyone which isn't an option.
I have no name: very clearly scummy
...
What, no reason? no case? no way to defend myself other then calling you out on saying "player is clearly scummy" as though it's *gasp* obvious. because really, if you had a case there I'd acknowledge it but simply stating that I'm scum seems like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and I'm the someone.
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12 hours left is... rather scary.
Will put it out here that I'm not willing to lynch Mr. Bob or rawr today. I feel that Bob's D2 has been marginally better than his D1 with a stance on Omba, etc. , and he seems to actually have a reason not to vote regularly. Besides, lynching him would be a waste since he's an outlier. I still believe in rawr's unvote from D1 despite his horrible play; he may be 3rd party at worst, but I don't think he's scum.
For Nameless, I feel that he's pretty town; his main fault is being very limited with his scumreads (Bob, rawr) until things such as the Omba debacle happened. But even so, I feel that he has kept up constant activity and that he has commented on the cases to the best of his ability, which I'm happy with. In this absolute shitstain of a game, I can't see why he should be lynched above so many other terrible people.
Everyone else (including rawr) who isn't huhwhat or capt.h (who I'm seeing as generally helpful now after his last few posts) can go die in a fire however.
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12 hours left is... rather scary.
Will put it out here that I'm not willing to lynch Mr. Bob or rawr today. I feel that Bob's D2 has been marginally better than his D1 with a stance on Omba, etc. , and he seems to actually have a reason not to vote regularly. Besides, lynching him would be a waste since he's an outlier. I still believe in rawr's unvote from D1 despite his horrible play; he may be 3rd party at worst, but I don't think he's scum.
For Nameless, I feel that he's pretty town; his main fault is being very limited with his scumreads (Bob, rawr) until things such as the Omba debacle happened. But even so, I feel that he has kept up constant activity and that he has commented on the cases to the best of his ability, which I'm happy with. In this absolute shitstain of a game, I can't see why he should be lynched above so many other terrible people.
Everyone else (including rawr) who isn't huhwhat or capt.h (who I'm seeing as generally helpful now after his last few posts) can go die in a fire however.
It's ok flash wagons are fun! I learned that from MS. I have to go to class, but I am listening to you
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I'm here and I'm
reading taking a shower, then reading. Game is still unreadable but I'm doing the best I can.
Thankfully deadline moved a few hours forward? I don't know why this happened but I'm not complaining.
Also, IHNN's recent Rawr vote. Does not compute with scum at all. And by that I mean it would be effortless to stay on Bob and he's starting a wagon on... Rawr of all people. Looks like town OMGUS, if that's even a thing. Do not lynch the guy.
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You know that when people have to be judged by their meta and how they conduct themselves rather than what they are actually saying, things are gravely wrong.
##Unvote
After some deep breaths, I think it's right to forgive Omba for the huhwhat debacle and treat it as null. There's no particular reason for scum to stretch their cases to the point of breaking and attract attention when no one was looking at him (only to earn the attention of so many people). The thing that makes it tough is that I still think his D1 is fatal for reasons already stated and that his Nameless case (that he had no other reads other than on rawr and Bob), while valid, is as easy as the things he is accusing him of.
Chaore is still terrible D2 and is absolutely mysterious in that no one is talking about him. He gave lots of token reads in his first few posts of the day but nothing else; then he saw the Omba-huhwhat debacle and went headlong into it without developing those token reads like he promised. It's a very very ugly jump. Counteracting this is what I feel to be a good D1 against BT which I agreed with, but urgh.
Dormio has only given three notable opinions, that on Dan, BT, and Affinity. He all of a sudden forgives Dan faster than how Prospero lays down his staff, for a reason which has been apparent and which people have pointed out so long ago, and makes a case on me, which, while not terrible, is ridiculous, with such gems as accusing me of scum for not holding onto my Serela vote from D1 over the span of 700 posts and 'painting myself in a townie light'. Also doesn't comment on current cases despite having the time to, which is such a good scum position to take.
I'll wait for BT to finish his reread before making a decision, but for now, consider mine Dormio > Chaore > Omba.
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Uh, no, don't wait for my reads, or anyone else's for that matter. I don't want us to get stuck a few hours before deadline.
Which is why I'm going to post my current opinions, even though I'm probably not finished reading.
Affinity is being annoyed town in his posts and I think it's genuine, especially since none of this happened last time most of the town was inactive for an entire day and he was scum (Path of Radiance D3). I also like his more recent posts. Would not lynch.
Speaking of inactive town, I'm under the impression most if not all (probably all) of the scumteam is lurking. This, along with the amount of noise Omba got himself in today, makes it hard for me to see him as scum. Even then, though, the whole thing with his completely forgetting his case on me until questioned about it, and other stuff that were mentioned beforehand, make me waffle. Wouldn't hurry to lynch but wouldn't be terribly against it (see: last day's wagons for 'terribly against')
Like half the game mentioned at this point, Serela's late D1 makes me think he's town, and I know this isn't conclusive at all but I honestly cannot reach any deeper conclusions because HE'S NOT POSTING ANYTHING.
The town read I had on Dormio was as strong as it was because, from what I could tell, his play pretty much mirrored his play in Path of Radiance regarding how he persuaded his case then. Thing is, once I started rereading I realized I'm basically clearing him way too easily, and what HW said about not pursuing his Dan case enough is completely true. There's also how his Affinity case looks artificial due to how he slapped on things he could have mentioned earlier but didn't. Honestly wouldn't mind his lynch at this point.
I'm basically trying to revisit town reads because, like with Dormio, I think I'm clearing people for no reason. This is hard. !_!
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Whatever, I'm going to bed. Will be back (awake) an hour before the deadline.
##Vote: Dormio
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"Hooray Easter is over, time to post in mafia" "Oh man it's midnight already :c" "OH %&#* I NEVER DID THE ASSIGNMENT FOR THE ONLY CLASS I HAVE TO PASS TO GRADUATE THIS SEMESTER, time to stay up all night instead and do that"
and then I stayed up all night, didn't get the assignment done, and didn't wake up until class was already done and gone. I'm totally going to fail English IV. Oh well!
HW:It's less "Hydra with Dorian", as he didn't really exert much influence over my play (Although the company is <3), and more "It was anonymafia"
Dormio/LLD both need to die p.much and are deffo my top two scumpicks. Affinity comes up third but his d2 is considerably better then his d1 and I could realistically see him as town, even though... man, I still hate his d1. If not Affinity, then Bob.
And then Omba would be the last possible. Everyone else I don't really see as scum, although some of my town reads are weaker then others (IHNN, BT. And no this does NOT mean I want to lynch either of the two at all, no >:C)
Oh right ##unvote
LLD just about does not exist. She skirted by on just enough D1 to keep me from thinking she was active lurking, but her D2 is SUPERLURK. (Pot calling the kettle black, shut up don't care, even I've posted way more d2 then she has anyway) This is combined with a general "eh" towards her d1, partially as everyone she's chased this game is pretty much flipped and/or regarded as town by 90+% of the players at this point. (Bob is also SUPERLURK NONEXISTENT except he's pretty much done this the whole game.)
I was going to make a case about Dormio here but my concentration is already shot :c
I give up on convincing anyone about Affinity and -then- a bunch of you start thinking he's weird? At this rate I'm going to get better results convincing people by giving up then trying to convince them >_>; Although... his D2 is a lot better then his D1 :/ Affinity is the one out of my five scum possibilities that I'm least certain of anymore.
And then Omba is, well, yeah.
Anyway
##Vote Dormio
I sort of feel bad that the one I'm voting is the one I didn't actually make any sort of a case on right here >_>;
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need words for ewbopping
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:wikipedia:
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Make a case, then?
Welp I reread Rawr and he's still town. Gonna look into Capth and IHNN now.
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I think I had a case on Dormio or at least something vaguely resembling one in a previous post. Maybe I should go find it. Anyway
She skirted by on just enough D1 to keep me from thinking she was active lurking
Not really sure why I said this about LLD, did she really lurk all that much d1? Maybe a little bit at a point or two, but. This line is a bit of an overreaction.
Anyway out of my order of priority,
LLD=Dormio >>> Bob ~ Affinity?? > Omba
This is a weird priority list when I look at it :C
Not really sure where I'm trying to place Affinity, since I'm uncertain. It's not like Omba, where I'm Certainly Uncertain. I mean, I know I think Omba could be town! But with Affi-dear god how the hell do you even word something like this
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Also Rawr would def. go in my "weak town read" group
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IHNN, Rawr is probably... not going to get lynched today. Who will it be?
Same goes for Rawr on IHNN.
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The One and Thirtieth of March Votecount
Action Dan (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Action Dan
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (0):
huh what (0):
Omba (1): Chaore
I have no name (2): Dr. Rawr, Omba
Dormio (3): capt.h, Affinity, Serela
Serela (1): Huh what
Affinity (1): Dormio
Dr Rawr (1): I have no name
Proxy on: Omba
Not voting: BT
Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name, Affinity
Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There are 7 hours remaining. Or you could hammer faster!
Day End Countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=Day+2+SYWTBTT+&month=4&day=9&year=2012&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p0=1177)
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says who? one vote?
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I don't see anyone but you and Omba.
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Not voting: BT, I have no name
##Unvote (because unlike the votecount I actually was voting rawr for it)
Put your votes where they're actually visible you derptard
IHNN, Rawr is probably... not going to get lynched today. Who will it be?
Ummm...probably Dormio but I need to think about this some more.
says who? one vote?
I don't get it.
*in this game
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Put your votes where they're actually visible you derptard
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg814941.html#msg814941
I did. In that post.
It wasn't on its own with clear line breaks before and after it. If other people can do it, so can you.
Can we please quickwagon Pesco?
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##Vote Dormio
Fluck it. I'm rereading and I can't find anything else.
You know what? The lurkers are scum and some of the obvtown are third parties. If D3 is as bad as today we may as well start lynching lurkers. Then we'll have K4U come back from the dead and make everyone vanilla. Sweet, sweet, calming vanilla.
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It wasn't on its own with clear line breaks before and after it. If other people can do it, so can you.
I was rushed for time because I had to run to class. >.>
I'm honestly not seeing what's so bad about Dormio. Can someone please explain what's scummy about him?
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There's also how his Affinity case looks artificial due to how he slapped on things he could have mentioned earlier but didn't. Honestly wouldn't mind his lynch at this point.
I think the difference between that and the other games where Dormio has done this [tunnelling] is that here it doesn't seem like he's actually doing anything to try to convince the other players when they question him on his case and attitude. He just kind of brushes them aside, and I find this suspicious.
ANYWAY, I'm totally cool with lynching Affinity, but I'm not super happy with Dormio after his "I Don't Dislike Anybody except Dan and Affinity" reads. Why? It's basically "Affinity did something scummy! But I don't have any thoughts on anyone else." There was no reason for him to mention me, Serela, Rawr, Omba, Chaore, Huh What, No Name, Bob, BT, OR LLD except MAYBE to fill up space on the page.
Dormio has only given three notable opinions, that on Dan, BT, and Affinity. He all of a sudden forgives Dan faster than how Prospero lays down his staff, for a reason which has been apparent and which people have pointed out so long ago, and makes a case on me, which, while not terrible, is ridiculous, with such gems as accusing me of scum for not holding onto my Serela vote from D1 over the span of 700 posts and 'painting myself in a townie light'. Also doesn't comment on current cases despite having the time to, which is such a good scum position to take.
For starters.
Serela, about your supposed Dormio case? I can't actually seeanything besides "he looks horrible and I won't explain why". ~_~
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Well, a couple things.
One, he's kind of not here. He usually gives a post every single morning between when I go to bed and when I wake up, and he missed his typical window now that he's under pressure. I REALLY don't like this for meta reasons. But lets just say he's dodging pressure by lurking, which is a survival instinct.
Second, although he might not be anyone's top lynch (except for me, I think he's scum), EVERYONE thinks he's scummy. There's a general consensus that he's scum.
Third, his opinion (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.msg814547.html#msg814547) post is stuffed with fluff for the sake of fluff. He doesn't have anything resembling an opinion on more than 9 of the players he mentioned.
Forth, he tunneled on Dan today HARD, which I don't like since I think he's scum, and as scum having a lot of trouble understanding how Dan is town. Because lets face it, Dan wasn't great, but he was town. Thus, attacking Dan for being bad rather than seeing that Dan was town.
His Affinity attempt was OK, but he doesn't really have thoughts on anyone else, and as Affinity pointed out, it is NOT a recent case at all. And his reasons for dropping Dan are both very half-hearted and old, dating back to Dan's vote in regards to Dorian which all came from yesterday.
Missing his almost habitual morning posts less than 24 hours to lynch when input would really be apreciated, a general unease with his play across everyone, the fact that all his cases are based on old information, and that he doesn't have opinions beyond "not disliking" anyone he hasn't made a case on, he's just an all around scummy guy, but he isn't polarizing enough to evoke many strong emotions.
TL,DR Dormio is scum so LETS LYNCH HIM!
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*The couple things were about Dormio being scummy.
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So, mostly being super-tunnely, stuff I missed and meta?
TL,DR Dormio is scum so LETS LYNCH HIM!
yeah I can see that now.
##Vote: Dormio
It seems like he's trying to get as close to the word limit as possible just to antagonize the mod with firetrucks.
Also I may not be here close to the deadline, it's my sister birthday and we may or may not be going out to dinner around 8.
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##Unvote
##Vote IHNN
The dude hasn't been pushing his cases at ALL today. Like, he hasn't even been mentioning Bob or rawr since his initial attacks on them, he's just kind of sat on everything while offering waffly support to upcoming wagons without any scumhunting. That Dormio vote just seals the deal that he's only been setting up jumps to rising wagons all day. Pretty blatant newbscum imo. I also feel that Nameless' opportunistic play is more likely to flip scum than Dormio's idiocy.
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HW, you've played with him before, haven't you? How does tarring Rawr and this sudden flexibility with Dormio match (or not match) his town play that game? So far my impression was that "newbscum IHNN would have been much more careful", but maybe he's doing all this blatantly because he's even more newbscum than I thought? @_@
I honestly can't say for sure because it can go either way. Point being, IHNN is currently much more of a 'maybe' than Dormio.
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Like, he hasn't even been mentioning Bob or rawr since his initial attacks on them
They haven't posted since my initial attacks, so there's nothing to add.
Additionally I realized Bob and rawr aren't going to be lynched today, and so I turned my attention to someone who could.
At this point a random lynch has either a 3/13 or 4/13 chance of flipping scum. However, any player that is not me has a 3/12 or 4/12 chance, which is better odds than 0/1 if I'm lynched. Therefore, I'm more likely to get rid of scum by avoiding a random lynch&avoiding my own lynch.
Disappearing.
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Most likely won't be back by deadline either due to today being my sisters birthday.
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BT: I generally don't believe in using first games to town meta newbies if they show substantial improvement between the two games, which Nameless has. Actually, I believe the overuse of meta in this particular game is in fact retarded. I blame capt. h, who I've been gutting as scum all damn game but don't have anything solid on. That said, I don't recall any behavior in his first game that would make me think he wouldn't play scum like this.
Nameless: Bob's been posting a bit and you've ignored his posts. No questioning him / pressing him for further remarks or anything. Rawr wasn't posting that much, but you could have tried to convince other people about voting him when they were reading him as town. You just kind of let it all go, which is scummy apathy.