Author Topic: Mafia History Mafia - Game Over (Read 74695 times)

Decade · « **Reply #630 on:** May 16, 2011, 05:09:56 AM »

Oh you. What did Protoman just say about voting being detrimental? Cage can be patient.
Indeed. Everyone acted that way. Everyone was wrong. Even more reason to step out of our habits and see if our paths lead us to victory or death.

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #631 on:** May 16, 2011, 05:12:18 AM »

You've said why you think voting is detrimental. It has no basis in reality. What do you expect to come of one vote, or even two?

Do you expect scum to pile on me and quicklynch me? Wait, I thought I WAS scum, so that doesn't work. So...you expect three silly townies to pop out of the woodwork to lynch me in a short period of time? Um...ok. I...really don't think that's a risk. I mean, Kyon was at L-2 for a LONG TIME yesterday. Again, what do you expect to happen if votes are placed in a non-LYLO situation? This makes absolutely no sense to me, Proto.

Decade · « **Reply #632 on:** May 16, 2011, 05:18:02 AM »

One, or two, or three, or four, each vote alone seems to have no value but when combined it rockets. Protoman thinks Cage shouldn't deny the silliness of town. Besides, this is an argument that holds no value to what is important today, actually looking for scum intent. Protoman would appreciate if you stopped persisting in pursuing it. No votes until time has been taken to properly study all reads for intent.

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #633 on:** May 16, 2011, 05:23:12 AM »

I think your request no one vote is anti town as all hell, honestly. I'm not sure it's coming from a scum place, but it does nothing to help town. At this juncture, little things like that can add up.

I, for one, am going to push the lynch of the scum in front of us. I'll probably be reassessing others, but it's pretty obvious anonymous has been being protected, either by dumb town or scum intent.

Also, I'm going to note your behavior around me is a bit weird. You say I'm scum, but you continually appeal to me to do what *you* think is townie. Why?

Punch Hopper · « **Reply #634 on:** May 16, 2011, 06:29:58 AM »

I am agree with Protoman. Past 3 days, we are lynching based on need to "Remove" From game. Town is caught in trap of looking at one person, when it is come time to watch all person. Issue is not of "one or two vote is not equal to lynch" But rather is case of saying "I do not wish to play, let us be giving win to scum as we facepalm when we is wrong once again."

Everyone is please unvote and return with case on all eight other people. Isolation view it is very simple. Anonymous account is lend self to such a thing, because only posts are posts made in mafia game. In meantime, I is not placing vote until I is have own case on all eight people. Such a request is is need of being made and enforcing. I personally will be conquer base of all who choose to vote without evaluation.

We may not being in lylo, but I am seeing no harm in treating it as such for sake of no more lynching the city.

Sasword · « **Reply #635 on:** May 16, 2011, 06:45:33 AM »

I supported a Kyon lynch because I thought he was scum. For the whole game until he flipped. <_<

But whatever.

OOO · « **Reply #636 on:** May 16, 2011, 07:23:56 AM »

Hm, Day One wagons being Town/Town/Town changes things somewhat. Moves from Sailor Moon to Prinny become scummy only insofar as any wagon jump that appears insincere. Cases based on connections to Kyon also obviously become invalid.

I think that my top pick for scum today would have to be Anonymous. His entire gameplan this game has revolved around targeting vulnerable newbies and attacking them abrasively without really bothering to make a case, especially starting on D2. His vote on CATS had little to do with the previous day's wagons, as if he were already aware that there was no scum intent to be found from wagon analysis. Then when that non-case gets him some heat, he just jumped on Sailor Moon again mostly for noob stuff.

D3, he makes the obvious case on Mai, but this strikes me as strange not only because it was the first time he gave any opinion on her scumminess since early D1, but also because he himself was basically guilty of the same case he used against her. Someone rising from not worthy of mention all the way to top scumpick is not very believable, and believing someone to be scummy for a decision that you yourself thought was town-motivated is not very believable. I don't believe that his Mai case came from a townie thought process. Not sure what to make of his selfvote late in the day, but I'm inclined to disregard all the WIFOM involved and just set it aside.

The points on his case against his three targets on D4 just don't make much sense as indications that they're scum. It looks like he's just picked three players he thinks look likely to get lynched over him. Looks like very demotivated scum - I have a hard time believing that he really thinks that those three are the scum team with that reasoning. Heck, he's hardly talked about Protoman or Cage at all over the past three days.

My case on Mai was based in significant part upon a Kyon scumflip, and her later D3 posts at least put some more reads and reasoning to sift through out there, so she's bumped down to my second pick. I should note that it makes sense for her and Anonymous to be scum together, though. Neither has spoken very much at all about the other, despite both of them being pretty prominent cases at one time or another over the course of the game.

This means that by process of elimination, at least one scum must be one of my town or null reads. The presence of the Mai wagon on D3 should provide some good solid analysis, but while I'd wager that both Anonymous and Mai will flip scum, I'm not willing to cement a third scumpick based on that assumption. Put another way, there's no one I'd be willing to lynch over Anonymous or Mai right now. The other scum will probably become more clear after we have their wagons and flips to deal with.

Withholding my vote in accordance with Protoman's request. Top pick for scum is Anonymous. Secondary pick is Mai, although I both consider her less scummy and would also prefer to leave her for second in order to get some more reactions from her and others.

Cut by CATS. Interesting philosophy, but I disagree. It's very easy to make conspiracy theories about which three players are acting according to some grand plan, and very difficult to tell which of those numerous theories is the true one. In the past, it's been very rare that all the scum have acted according to a central plan, especially with all the different and opposing ways that scumbuddies can give themselves away through each other. The largest scumteam interactions that can be reliably detected are those with one scum who approaches his buddy in a way that conflicts with his approach to the rest of the town. The best method of finding scum, which applies to everyone, is to look for actions and explanations of those actions that lack town intent.

Punch Hopper · « **Reply #637 on:** May 16, 2011, 09:46:53 AM »

Quote from: The Comedian on May 16, 2011, 07:23:56 AM

Cut by CATS. Interesting philosophy, but I disagree. It's very easy to make conspiracy theories about which three players are acting according to some grand plan, and very difficult to tell which of those numerous theories is the true one. In the past, it's been very rare that all the scum have acted according to a central plan, especially with all the different and opposing ways that scumbuddies can give themselves away through each other. The largest scumteam interactions that can be reliably detected are those with one scum who approaches his buddy in a way that conflicts with his approach to the rest of the town. The best method of finding scum, which applies to everyone, is to look for actions and explanations of those actions that lack town intent.

Thanking for bring this up.

Eight individuals cases is meaning eight individual cases.
Please be bringing why people are algae on their own merits, because pairing theory is useless.
Thank you

Faiz · « **Reply #638 on:** May 16, 2011, 10:13:05 AM »

@Proto: At the moment you and Cage are my top town reads. But the way my reads have been going this game, I'm not as positive anymore.

So while it is my opinion that Anonymous is trying to link together the three biggest town posters for a lynch based on shitty logic...

I'm leaving the possibility open that one of you two could be scum and it's a distancing effort.

Though I feel like this is unlikely.

I would not be surprised if it were the case, because I won't be surprised by any more wrong assumptions I make this game. >.<

Decade · « **Reply #639 on:** May 16, 2011, 01:58:51 PM »

Cage, Protoman has never cared how his actions look if they force other Navis to think. Protoman is not going to start caring now. Protoman appeals to your veil of towniness for two reasons. One, Protoman has to ask in case Protoman is wrong and you are town. Two, if Cage is a virus it benefits his image not to fight against town's requests, doesn't it? Of course, if he disagrees that Protoman is requesting as town he could pursue that avenue if he wishes.

Yesterday all Navis disregarded SOS Slave Boy as a lost cause. Protoman doubts many of his voters bothered to stop and read his posts. Protoman knows it is a reversal of his own insistance, but what if Anonymous isn't a virus? Protoman thought about yesterday. Protoman snapped an answer at Cage out of irritation and Cage allowed his mind to be changed by town again. Protoman thinks the answer he gave was incorrect though. Headless 4chan's actions don't actually make sense from any point other then frustration. Headless 4chan, why weren't you willing to consider anyone but Mai yesterday and why weren't you willing to vote for Kyon?

Mai, Protoman encourages you to drop your assumptions and look into both of us. Quick reads only go so far. Protoman thinks you look suspicious for using your scum read's town flip to attack your town read that also happened to be town. Mai used bad logic to reverse her reads in the first place. If Sailor Moon = Town did not equal Kyon = Scum. Can Mai explain how this made sense in the first place?

Quote from: Monoe on May 16, 2011, 12:33:39 AM

Well FUCK. I did not expect either of those flips.

You didn't? Isn't Monoe the one who insisted Day 2 that Boku no KIRA must be town because of how quickly his wagon increased? Everything Monoe just said about Cage was reasoning that could have been used Day 3. But yesterday Monoe insisted on linking Cage to Kyon's flip. In fact everything Monoe said yesterday in response to Protoman's cases revolved around Kyon. Protoman wonders where Monoe got his new suspicions from since Monoe said here that re-reading Cage found him nothing and seemed to think Cage was scum if Kyon flipped SCUM. Did something else happen last night?

Protoman thinks town is getting ahead of itself by assuming the lack of LYLO means town can win if we relax today. Kilgamayan's MSR had a third party built to survive instead of kill every night. The game might not end tomorrow, but there is still a possibility town could lose the ability to win.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #640 on:** May 16, 2011, 02:11:17 PM »

Anonymous (2): John Cage, Mai Tokiha

No vote cast: Everyone else

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. There are about 58.5 hours remaining in the day.

DiEnd · « **Reply #641 on:** May 16, 2011, 03:35:50 PM »

Personally, I share Cage's sentiments that not voting is a rather anti-town thing to do, what with 5 votes being needed before people get lynched and votes being the heart and soul of Mafia analysis in general. So I will not agree with Protoman's request. I will, however, say something on everyone.

Annonymous' play is lazy and tremendously anti-town, and squarely lands him in the icky SM/Prinny/CATS category back in D1, except worse since all these eiither-or cases have been cropping up on the later days. Nothing he has said of note on D3 onwards except for an okay but copied Mai vote (his D4 thing is atrocious), and thus he has now become a wild card./coin flip. Personally, I don't think he's the right lynch for today due to nothing else but gut and the overt shock factor of his D4 post, which seemed quite unnecessary for scum, but I can't argue if he is to be lynched today. His D2 still stands though.

Mai's extreme tunneling on Sailor Moon on D2 and the restatement of obvious things (unlike others who have read on other people or tried to) still haunts me. Mai's dogged defense of Kyon on D2 due to him being an 'easy target' (though SM was an easy target as well), only to turn on him on D3 since SM flipped town , is also very strange and untelegraphed, despite her reasoning in her long Kyon case post afterwards, which I do not buy. I don't like her reads being completely derailed just because a person she thought was scum was actually town; especially when these 'misreads' seem to have coincidentally landed her on the main wagons for the past few days. Also, I find that she has often only one dominant case at a time; all her side-cases on Crocker, Comedian, etc. all seem to fade away as time goes by, which strikes me as tunneling and lining up town for the chopping board. With the Kyon flip I feel that Mai is the best lynch for today; her rather bad D2, tunnels on all the uninteresting targets, and all her fluid opinions seem to point her as scum.

##Vote: Mai

More on others when I wake up.

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #642 on:** May 16, 2011, 04:21:51 PM »

Protoman: Fair enough, it just felt rather off to me. Now, I feel a bit misrepresented here, Protoman. I never said we could take it easy, but as I'm sure you know, votes are the surest sign of intent. Holding them back allows people to say things without meaning them. It let's people rack up a little town cred for "good opinions" that they have no intention of backing up.

I don't feel the threshold is AT ALL low enough to be worried about a damned quicklynch. Admittedly, L-X counts SHOULD probably accompany every vote though.

Anyway, CATS, I think that's a GREAT idea. Why don't you start?

Also, I've been thinking about it. And...didn't my D1 and D2 actions make sense only if I was protecting...Kyon scum? Yet the case on me D3 is I maliciously wanted to quicklynch Kyon town? Hmm. I think that those intending to vote me should PROBABLY read my ISO with regards to Kyon and tell me which flip makes me more likely scum. If you come up with "both" directly due to interactions to you, you *might* just wanna rethink part of your case.

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #643 on:** May 16, 2011, 04:22:04 PM »

EBWOP: Make sense as Cage Scum if, etc.

Decade · « **Reply #644 on:** May 16, 2011, 05:37:19 PM »

Quote from: John Cage on May 16, 2011, 04:21:51 PM

Protoman: Fair enough, it just felt rather off to me. Now, I feel a bit misrepresented here, Protoman. I never said we could take it easy, but as I'm sure you know, votes are the surest sign of intent. Holding them back allows people to say things without meaning them. It let's people rack up a little town cred for "good opinions" that they have no intention of backing up.

This is fair. Protoman does not mean we should hold back from voting forever. Protoman would like at least 24 hours without any wagons. Protoman does not think good opinions that never get backed will be rewarded.

Quote

Anyway, CATS, I think that's a GREAT idea. Why don't you start?

Actually, Protoman thinks Cage should start. It would go a good way towards proving to Protoman that Cage is making his own cases instead of agreeing with the cases of other Navis, which is what Protoman highly holds against you.

Quote

Also, I've been thinking about it. And...didn't my D1 and D2 actions make sense only if I was protecting...Kyon scum? Yet the case on me D3 is I maliciously wanted to quicklynch Kyon town? Hmm. I think that those intending to vote me should PROBABLY read my ISO with regards to Kyon and tell me which flip makes me more likely scum. If you come up with "both" directly due to interactions to you, you *might* just wanna rethink part of your case.

No. All the wagons and all the Navis you've voted for so far Day 1, 2 and 3 flipped town. It didn't matter which wagon you supported Day 2, because they were all town wagons. Protoman thinks Cage's attitude that day reflects someone that didn't overly care which wagon he was on.

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #645 on:** May 16, 2011, 06:41:15 PM »

Well, by day three I didn't, that's for sure. Then again I didn't care about many things.

Eh...I guess I can try this maybe.

Anonymous is pretty terrible for obvious reasons. As I've been saying the entire game, his day one is reporter style bullcrap. His day two seems to open alright, but he never actually follows up on anything. Of note is his REFUSAL to give three suspects and reasons after Sailor Moon asks. And D3 was him lurking all day and then voting himself. MAGICAL! And today was just a hilarious post where he asks us to make the case on his suspects for him. That's awesome.

CATS has more or less been a lurker. His first two days were incredibly tunnely posts that didn't accomplish much. I still say his D3 makes things better, but he never followed up with it throughout the day. He feels like he's giving the bare minimum to not get lynched.

The Comedian...um...well, I mean, I read through his ISO last night. I can't *force* myself to find anything wrong with him. The only issues is his tunnelyness, which I imagine are the same issues with Mai. His post today reasonably expands his focus so...I'm going to have to wager he's town, sorry.

Mr. Crocker...hmm. Well, his D1 is pretty scattershot and OUT there. This is pretty pro town. Um...his D2 is kind of lackluster. Not terribly scummy, but not bleeding pro townness like D1. D3 opens with calling Mai terrible for tunneling on Sailor Moon. Out of curiosity, do you think your tunneling on light is scummy, Crocker? D3 is interesting in that most of his posts are a few questions answered and continued reiteration of his Light/CATS/Anon scumteam. Who's your new third, by the way? I see you still want CATS and anon dead.

In conclusion, Crocker wouldn't be my top suspect, or even in my top three but...I'd put him as four or five.

Ugh, I'll read the rest later. I've only read Chitose's walls after walls of text ISO three or four times this game and always ended up in the middle of the road on her.

-------

MORE INTERESTINGLY: I think I just figured out something very important. And it does NOT reflect well on Protoman at all. Take a look at who's dead, and who's alive. Take a look at what Protoman has been saying today. Take a look at the various people that recur in suspect lists that are still alive. I have to wonder if maybe...just MAYBE, the Light kill was a set up...for Protoman to tell us we're thinking all wrong when we're RIGHT on the verge of lynching scum. Ugh...this sounds so conspiracy theoryish but I can't friggen shake it. It fits. Anonymous is objectively scummy...we've been proven wrong time after time...and then LIGHT of all people gets NK'd as if the scum are trying to demoralize us and get us on the wrong trail. Hell, it might purely be that. Protoman could be a patsy who took the bait. Still...when Anonymous flips scum, Protoman will have some VERY difficult to answer questions, I believe.

I think we should keep on our current trains of thought. Reinforce them, re examine them, yes, but DON'T CHANGE THEM FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGING THEM! We've been doin it rong so far, but the Light kill REALLY makes me feel like the scum want us to THINK everything we've done is wrong. It makes too much damned sense!

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #646 on:** May 16, 2011, 06:42:46 PM »

EBWOP: Also, Protoman, the same can be said for a lot of people. I'm pretty sure the same can be said for you, outside of your votes on me. And I know those to be on town as well. If I remember correctly, the same could be said of Mai as well. And possibly Monoe. In fact, I think pretty much EVERYONE has similar voting patterns, Protoman.

Decade · « **Reply #647 on:** May 16, 2011, 08:42:01 PM »

Protoman thinks your WIFOM would be easier to drink if it came with a case on Protoman based on his past actions as well as amusing conspiracy theories. Protoman does like theories, but they mean nothing when not backed up by facts. In theory if we were to keep up our previous patterns, after Boku no Kira our next lynch would be Mai for being the other Day 3 wagon.

Decade · « **Reply #648 on:** May 16, 2011, 09:10:39 PM »

And Protoman was simply answering your question in relation to Kyon protection. The intent behind the vote is as important to Protoman as the vote itself. Protoman does not think the same, namely that they didn't care where their vote was, is reflected in the attitudes of other Navis.

Decade · « **Reply #649 on:** May 17, 2011, 12:08:02 AM »

:/ So when Protoman said not to vote early he was still hoping Navis would remember to come post in the thread and answer his questions, possibly even talk and question each other. Please don't leave Protoman alone with Cage, he is a virus and Protoman can hear him breathing on his neck when he is not looking. :ohdear:

Sasword · « **Reply #650 on:** May 17, 2011, 01:48:06 AM »

##Vote John Cage
Placing my vote down to prove my existance. I don't think I'll be able to actually review the thread and post my full input until maybe tomorrow evening, this day didn't start at the best time for me.

W · « **Reply #651 on:** May 17, 2011, 01:51:16 AM »

Quote from: John Cage

Still...when Anonymous flips scum, Protoman will have some VERY difficult to answer questions, I believe.

I'm pretty sure I've seen this before. Like, try the LAST THREE LYNCHES? Or hell, how about the kill from last night? Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you're doing something wrong? Or are you just going to keep pushing people to do the exact same thing that hasn't worked all game?

That said, my motivation for this game drops exponentially. Voting me is not going to get me to try harder, in fact it's doing the opposite. In fact, I probably will oblige to CATS' suggestion, simply because I feel Town has some common sense left. Not now, but for sure. Of course, I'm sure you're going to disregard it and call it reportery, but we'll see if that will deter me.

Decade · « **Reply #652 on:** May 17, 2011, 02:27:08 AM »

But it was Protoman's.. oh never mind. Cage isn't trying to get you to try harder, but if you believe he is a virus trying to mislynch you Headless 4chan shouldn't let his vote affect his decisions. Protoman will wait for cases but would like Anonymous to answer the question Protoman asked. Why weren't you willing to consider anyone but Mai yesterday and why weren't you willing to vote for Kyon at end of Day?

W · « **Reply #653 on:** May 17, 2011, 02:51:32 AM »

After coming up with that case for Mai, I tried to reread everyone. Unfortunately, I was falling asleep at that point due to tiredness and general sleep cycle taking over me. Then everyone starts thinking that I was pressuring Crocker to hammer, think my case on Mai is borrowed despite the fact that I really didn't bother to read D3, and generally came to the conclusion that I want to die ASAP, since people seem on misrepping me very badly. Hence the whole self vote and double claiming. Btw, I am a vanilla townie. The whole doctor shenanigans was trying to get the scum to kill me (READ: FAIL). At this point, I stopped caring, and then I had to go away to do something for a while. I come back and find Kyon dead and Town, which I found quite an obvious result considering how fast my scum pick turned around on him.

W · « **Reply #654 on:** May 17, 2011, 02:53:43 AM »

That said, the more I read from you in D4, the more convinced I am of my being wrong about you and you being town.

Ryuki · « **Reply #655 on:** May 17, 2011, 03:35:50 AM »

Quote from: Protoman

Explain what about Headless 4chan's post was wrong, do not sum it up as 'his whole thing'. Crock Pot should explain his feelings on many other Navis today

Made a whole scumteam of the active players without any supporting evidence on any. "Protoman is scum because someone scummy died."
"If one is scum, then another one of them looks even townier." Ummm, what are you saying? And would you like to explain who looks better and who doesn't with who's flip? Cause what you said was super vague.
I can't even see where he says which one he wants to pursue.

On others
Cage- I find erring on townier side.
Protoman- Erring on town.
Mai- I find to be the least trustworthy of those who I think are town due to past tunneling.
CATS- My second pick for reasons I've stated before.
Monoe- Erring on townie.
Comedian/Chitose- Null read, will reread and report on who I find scummier of the two. I believe there is merit in one of them.

Quote from: Cage

Out of curiosity, do you think your tunneling on light is scummy, Crocker? Who's your new third, by the way? I see you still want CATS and anon dead.

Few things,
1. I don't believe I ever tunneled on anyone at all. While I did hold him at the top of my list for a while, I continually gave clear opinions and interacted with other people, making cases and following up on suspicions.
2. I don't think my pursuing him was scummy at all. I gave a concise case case which I found to be legitimate. I followed up on suspicions on him, and if anyone disagreed with my case, nothing was said.

That said, I think there might be merit in rereading both Comedian and Chitose in isolation to find my third pick. I'll do that soon and decide later which one I find the scummier of the two.

Gonna get this post out here.

Decade · « **Reply #656 on:** May 17, 2011, 03:57:18 AM »

Protoman wants Crocker to stop and consider something before he errs many Navis towards town and attacks viruses. All of Cage, Monoe, Protoman and Mai, along with Comedian were on Kyon yesterday with him. Mai was pushed first, but Kyon was pushed harder, and by everyone active. Protoman doesn't think anyone that was pushing Kyon should be cleared. Kyon was a power role. There is high evidence that Kyon might have been rolecopped or assumed to be a power role if someone noticed he inserted a quote into every post. Look into the wagon and look for virus intent. Protoman just wants to get this point out there.

Protoman accepts Headless 4chan's answer and hopes he can fight the power today.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #657 on:** May 17, 2011, 05:18:48 AM »

Anonymous (2): John Cage, Mai Tokiha
Mai Tokiha (1): Chitose Karasuma
John Cage (1): Monoe

No vote cast: Everyone else

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. There are a little over 43 hours remaining in the day.

OOO · « **Reply #658 on:** May 17, 2011, 06:58:43 AM »

CATS: Derp, my bad, I misinterpreted what you meant by wanting to see eight cases.

Cage: Any speculation at all about the reasoning behind the Light kill is very vulnerable to WIFOM. Maybe the scum are all looking like likely lynches and want to shake up the town with a weird kill to get themselves out of the crosshairs. Or maybe they know that that would be our most likely conclusion from seeing the Light kill, and they're actually the more townie-looking players who would benefit from the town making that assumption. Or maybe they killed Light because they expected him to be suspicious of them. Or maybe they just killed Light in order to frame those he was suspicious of.

The point is that whatever motivations scum had in killing Light, they thought they could outguess the town about what it would conclude about the motivations behind that kill. So, it's better to just ignore the point completely and focus on finding motivations that can't be faked just by an impersonal NK PM. It's rarely a good idea to let scum so directly dictate which cases you pursue. Although, that said, Anonymous's insistence that there's more to it is bad not just for appealing to the NK to defend him, but also because it smacks of appeal to fear.

Decade · « **Reply #659 on:** May 17, 2011, 02:14:26 PM »

<_< Protoman thinks a mass prod is in order. There are at least three people getting one. Protoman suggests using some sort of ammunition. Protoman wonders if some type of ammunition is in order for these modkills.

Oh well. Protoman will give Navis something to talk about. Anyone that cleared The Comedian after reading him in isolation is either scum or just not looking closely enough.

##Vote: The Comedian

Your last post is very interesting. And by interesting I mean you've managed to do something very interesting all game. Protoman is going to take all of The Comedian's interactions with Cage from the game and post them here to show the other Navis what he means. Protoman is not using this as a case against Cage (even though he's a virus) though if Comedian does appear as a virus this does make him look very bad.

Quote

Cut by Cage post: I disagree with your clear of Sailor Moon as eager town. If she were derping it up like this with eagerness and effort, I might say that, but her apathy about actually following what the Kyon/Protoman thing seems to contradict that.

Quote

For all Cage's refusal to read most of the game is rageworthy, what really bugs me is his WIFOM about how it's not scummy because it totally wouldn't help scum at all. This is a point that deserves emphasis: anti-town play is pro-scum. Play that obfuscates one's own opinion or distracts the town from proper scumhunting, it's bad, and if you're aware that it's bad and you still do it, it's scummy.

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Cage: What you say about posting reads without reasoning in order to study responses sounds like mere gotcha games. There's too much WIFOM and meta in how a given player will respond to a case without content for that technique to be useful far outside of RVS or maybe in an unassailable position in LyLo. There's aggressive scumhunting, and then there's just stirring shit up.

Quote

Apologies, having computer troubles. Analysis from hurried read: Disagree with Cage's claim that Mai and Kyon can't both be scum. Mai's flipflop on Kyon makes no sense for scum or town regardless of Kyon's alignment, but as it's horrible and I have a hard time imagining a townie's opinion of another player swinging so drastically based on a townflip under the given reasoning, considering it a likely scumtell whatever Kyon's flip. Such strangeness tends to indicate scum connection. Mai probably looks worse with Kyon scum, not sure whether Kyon looks better or worse with Mai scum. Still preferring Kyon lynch.

Comedian's first response to my case here

Comedian's second response to my case here

And Comedian's post before this one, linked because Cage can't find posts that aren't directly linked.

How have you managed to talk to and about John Cage so much all game without ever saying whether you think he's town or scum? I can't tell after reading through all these! Even when you were replying directly to my cases on Cage, you said how the points could be nulltells and that the cases weren't interesting, you never actually said whether you thought Cage was a virus or not! You looked like you were arguing against me but you didn't make an opinion one way or the other. Cage isn't the only one you've done this to! Most of your interactions with other players are based on game theory and reasonably pointing out mechanics without saying what you think of them! This is an amazing amount of good sounding posts that actually say nothing at all about what you're thinking. It's active lurking made into an art. Protoman thinks the picture would be a Picasso or LifeAura N.