Mafia History Mafia - Game Over

[Sasword]

After Prinny's flip, I find it imperative that somebody sets up CATS the bomb sometime within the near future. No need for :words: against him, as his entire D1 was primarily focused on our recently lynched Prinny, who flipped town. His play seems overly minimalistic in a way that does not make up for his lack of activity, and his only real contribution beside the Prinny case is accusing people of borrowing the cases of others while he himself borrowed the case on Kyon. Posting too little in both terms of content and frequency makes him look like lurkscum if I've ever seen it.

Shitaisan, too, is downright awful following Prinny's flip. He made a list that appears to be setting up potential targets for him to jump on later in the day then utilized it to jump on the Prinny's wagon for minimal reasoning after the Sailor Moon wagon looked like it may have been about to peter out. As I mentioned yesterday, his reasons for jumping off of the Sailor Moon wagon are inconsistant with his reasons for actually voting her - while Shitaisan voted Sailor Moon for AtE and reporting, he later gave her a pass for "appearing to be trying". The weak link here supports the theory that he was scum looking for an easy hop off of a wagon he expected to die out. Also of interest is that his suspicions of me and Protoman never went anywhere, perhaps because there were no wagons on us that he could choose to later jump on to.

Of these two, I think I'd prefer sending Shitaisan to his death. CATS' combination of tunneling and lurking is irritatingly bad, but Shitaisan's oddly-choreographed voting pattern is just as scummy and his flip would provide a fair deal of information on players such as Mai and perhaps Protoman following his flip. Still, both are very reasonable picks for scum, so I would definitely be willing to switch to CATS if nobody seems to agree with me regarding Shitaisan. ?)

##Vote Kyon

As for other players on the Prinny wagon, Sailor Moon is looking rather scummy again. Prinny's flip makes her vote on its wagon look like a votepark on a townie and her choice to claim being effectless so early on is rather irritating, but I would not consider her worth pursuing over my main two targets. I could easily see her as buddies with either one, however, as Kyon's vote on the Moon wagon was weak enough to be a bus and CATS' list of Moon-voters he accused of borrowing cases could be interpreted as a traditional chainsaw defense. I am also a little wary of Seccom Masada-sensei's choice to ignore his cases on Light and Protoman in favor of jumping on a wagon that he had barely even alluded to up until that point, but I'm not sure he would actually be worth picking over Shitaisan and CATS for today's lynch, especially since his overnight thought process seems believable and town-motivated to me.

Chitose and Mr. Crocker seem the most trustworthy out of all of the first six players who were voting the Prinny at the end of the day. Chitose gets brownie points for voting CATS early on, and I can't think of anything she's done that is individually scummy enough to make me want to lynch her today, even if she was on the Prinny wagon. Mr. Crocker's contributions felt genuine and he made some interesting points about Whim and Chitose, though it is rather disappointing that he did not seem to have much to add after his initial large post. While I can see him as a member of the darker-colored alignment, I could stand to hear a little more from him today.

Not much to say about the people who were off of the Prinny wagon right now. I liked Mai's early D1 after she cleared up her early play that confused me, but her amount of content slowly decreased and she never actually answered my question regarding her late-day opinions on Shitaisan, which is regrettable. As is, I want to hear more from her. I also think that Gumshoe's theories about Kyon/Mai sound a little like confirmation bias, but I'd rather wait for some of the involved parties to flip before considering pushing conspiracies about it.

[Faiz]

@Monoe: In the later part of Day 1, I had some personal issues to deal with.
 
Please direct me to the questions you wanted answered?
 

[Faiz]

Also, who is Shitaisan?

[W]

That would be SOS slave boy

[Kick Hopper]

Well, first I can't say I expected Whim to be the first kill. Secondly, you all know my thoughts on everything

##Vote Kyon

Thirdly, Monoe, the main reason I jumped on the Prinny wagon was that I wanted to make sure we got a lynch, and I wasn't really thinking about the Day 1 rules. I was also under the impression deadline was closer than it was, but I acknowledge that when I realized we had more time, I stuck on Prinny. From what I did remember about him, it seemed like he wasn't even trying to be pro town and just was hoping to coast on by. I still probably should have researched it more, but, as evidenced by my lack of posting towards the end of the day, I was exceedingly busy with things. I probably should have pushed Light harder in hindsight.

Cut by Mai: Shitai-san is Kyon, IIRC. Because they share a middle of the road attitude. If you mean who the character is, Monoe would know far better than I would.

[Sasword]

Mai: Shitaisan = Kyon. Masada = Cage. Maybe I should just stop with the RP nicknames or any semblance of RP attempts in general, attempting to RP a character with no dialogue is pretty silly anyway since all I can really do is reference the source material on occasion. (I do like the white font, though.)

I want to know what your opinions on Kyon were like during the latter half of D1, and where they stand now that Prinny has flipped.

Cut by Cage. Shitaisan is a corpse found in the middle of a road who you get the stoplight effect from.
Whim being the first kill looks a little like PR hunting to me, not that her play wasn't pretty solid.

[Decade]

Protoman is filled with rage at whoever targetted the cute maid. Now Protoman will never have one of his own. The target makes Protoman more sure of who he wants to Delta Slash today.

##Vote: Light Yagami

Protoman was touched last night by Cage's words and saw the light! Boku no Kira looks awful and can get deleted hard today. When is later again? Gumshoe's new double brains should also get in here and try really hard to make up for his badness. Protoman Is adding him right now to his virus list. Protoman is also tentatively adding Headless 4chan to the tertiary list of Navis he wants to delete. Protoman would rather delete Light first, but Protoman also thinks SOS Slave Boy can get deleted just as much. Both of them. Deleted. Right now. It would be awesome.

So basically SOS Slave Boy + Boku no Kira > Headless 4chan > Gumshoe + someone that Protoman can't remember

Monoe, Cage, Protoman is sorry we fought, can we delete all the viruses now? That would be great thanks.

And don't go all demotivational posters on me, RP, have fun with it, motivation is the key to success and just as important as virus hunting! Protoman is not going to stop.

[Sasword]

Protoman, why do you think that Gumshoe is bad?

[W]

##Vote: CATS

Stop your RPing NOW

I can't understand a damn thing you're saying, and if you continue this way, I will not stop voting you unless someone claims scum or you die. Either type normally so that we can understand or lie silent in a ditch until you're modkilled.

Now onto a more real case:
Post 180
From what little I can understand from this post, it seems he wants us to jump off the Sailor Moon wagon and move on to someone else, like the Townie Prinny.
And stating that he'll jump on whichever wagon is tastier.
And you're just forgettable in general.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

[Sasword]

As someone who is actually enjoying CATS' RP, I think telling him to stop is pretty lame. I did not find him too difficult to understand, at least.

I do find your points on him interesting, though, considering my pre-existing suspicions.

[W]

Oh yeah, requesting posts from:

Gumshoe
CATS
Key-on
SM
God

[Decade]

Protoman is trying to remember, it made more sense a few hours ago. It has something to do with looking at his conversation with Whim and what Cage reminded me of with the too town to be town argument. I want to see what his replacements do first. Protoman isn't in the best thinking of type right now.

Hello Headless 4chan! I can read CATS just fine, you should get some post restriction decoder glasses. Also, you suck just as bad as he does. I went back and read you over and you said a whole lot of recap about everyone and brought a whole lot of nothing to the table. You can get deleted too!

[Sasword]

Also, for what it's worth, I don't think Light is a bad choice for a D2 lynch at all. I'd prefer to focus on players who voted with the flipped D1 townie wagon, since, well, that's where I'd like to believe the best place to scumhunt is (barring a weird case like Subterannean Animism D1), but Light's failure to deliver is extremely irritating and it should be noted that some of his content was fairly close to cheering on the Prinny wagon.

[Sasword]

(It should be noted that I might just be blinded by irritation with him as a player, though. Promising content then only actually delivering a few lines is honestly rather uncool, no matter how silly D1 is being.)

[Decade]

Protoman is feeling generous, so he's going to read CATS's post for Headless 4chan and show how bad your interpretation is:

Sailor moon wagon has been unjustified. Light, Kyon, Anon, Prinny.
All leap on borrowing reasons. Continue Observation must it does.

So CATS points to four Navis, that you're one of, that he thinks voted for Sailor Moon for bad reasons.

Agree on Kyon are wishy-washy. Early case is bad on comedian, and also guilty for hopping wagon is mentioning above. If lynch are Kyon, feels many deserved.

Remain vote Prinny. Maybe switch Kyon is desiring of city.

CATS agrees SOS Slave Boy looks bad, for reasons other people have pointed out, and says he will stay on Prinny but switch to SOS Slave Boy if town wants to.

So Headless 4chan says his case is he wanted people to move from Sailor Moon to Prinny. The problem with it is he was fairly clearly preferring the Kyon lynch that didn't get enough votes going.The Navis he pointed out are the ones Protoman doesn't like either, so Protoman is biased about who he thinks sounds better. Protoman thinks both Navis up for deletion were town and whichever bad wagon the BBS picked for deletion was still bad. Protoman did notice that Slave Boy could have competed if enough Navis that stated they wanted to delete him yesterday actually switched. Protoman remembers now that he did not like Gumshoe for his last minute vote toss either.

For sake of pressing both sides Protoman must ask CATS, if you wanted SOS Slave Boy deleted, and you were reading that other Navis posted they wanted SOS Slave Boy deleted, why didn't you just vote for him? He could have been deleted yesterday and if you were reading other Navis posts you should have known that.

Protoman thinks Light promising content then saying in a later post there was nothing to post content about is less irritating and more WARNING VIRUS DETECTED.

[Ouja]

Ok this just flipped me the wrong way:

Oh yeah, requesting posts from:

Gumshoe
CATS
Key-on
SM
God

We are 1 hour into day 2 and instead of you making an actual post, you just want to cruise in on responses like you have been doing. You trying to make me flip my shit today when you should know posts like these are coming and you just seem to be trying to act helpful when that's such a load of crap anyone could get by on wanting people to post.

[Ouja]

Ebwop: oh yeah that isn't my "post" just had to get that out while I put mine together.

[Faiz]

Ok this just flipped me the wrong way:We are 1 hour into day 2 and instead of you making an actual post, you just want to cruise in on responses like you have been doing. You trying to make me flip my shit today when you should know posts like these are coming and you just seem to be trying to act helpful when that's such a load of crap anyone could get by on wanting people to post.

##Vote: Sailor Moon
 
This is getting ridiculous. This is obvious scum. You guys are all missing the forest for the trees.

[Faiz]

As a matter of fact, I want someone to explain to my why Sailor Moon is town.
 
I presented reasons why Sailor Moon was scum yesterday. I never saw ANY of those points refuted, and I see no reason why Sailor Moon has become any BETTER.
 

[Kaku Seiga]

Keikaku do- ohwait.

Moon: Is still scum. Her big content post that somehow got people to switch off her is already bad by itself, but made worse in light of Prinny's flip, considering a big part of the post is her case against Prinny. The rest is mainly spent on defending herself. No, excusing yourself does not help you. I would appreciate it if you spared us the trouble of hanging you and did that yourself, though.

##Vote: Sailor Moon

Crocker: Mainly one big post D1. One reason he votes Prinny is... not defending himself against something he really could not have defended against. Other content in it: repeating stuff about Moon that had already been said, prodding two lurkers and one new observation about Whim. So that big post doesn't actually have all that much new content in it. Doesn't really reek scummy so far, though.

John Cage: If you think I'm scum for not taking any strong stance, you should maybe, like, also go after Combo Breaker for... not taking any stance at all. :V

/re-reading other people now.

[Ryuki]

This is entirely based off D1 and is not acknowledging any D2 actions so far.

Mr. Kyon-
Early case on Comedian is bad, as it is OMGUS-y because you thought he should get your vote for trying to start a wagon on you.
His initial vote of Moon looks bad as it uses another person's case as a summation of how he feels and because of her emotions and reporting. #143 is reportery and doesn't give a definite opinion of Moon, who he still has his vote on. His unvote of Sailor Moon is suspicious, as his reasoning is that she was trying after her crazy long post.
This leads me to believe he hopped onto the another wagon when he saw his case was invalid and weak. He's been passive in his hunting and jumps on wagons, contributing little to town. Voicing willingness to lynch.

Mr. Yagami-
All you have to your name in content is a lazy jump on a wagon that you never followed up on, never really addressed Cage's suspicions to you, and then the two people you mention as scummy both flipped town. So really, we have no current opinions from you.

##Vote: Light Yagami

Miss Sailor Moon-
Overall opinion hasn't changed, especially since with Prinny's flip. Not my first pick though.

Mr. Anonymous-
I'm pretty suspicious of. His two major contributions to D1 were reportery. Original content was very lacking. When following up on Moon, he references other cases as his opinions. Any questions he asks are not followed up on and it smells of passive hunting to me as he does not actively take actions to find scum. Reportery.

The new Shoegum-
I would appreciate it if you went back over your predecessor's posts and state which actions and positions he takes that you agree with and those you don't, as I would like to know where you stand on his opinions.

CATS-
CATS barely mentioned one person other than Prinny who was scummy, and it was very short and unoriginal. I want a nice, long post of at least 3 people you find suspicious. Also voicing willingness to lynch.

[Kaku Seiga]

Crocker: You do realize I prodded Whim to get her to vote Moon? And that that was the only thing I've written concerning her? Moreover, that I was trying to get Moon instead of Prinny lynched?

[Ryuki]

Yes.
It still stands that you did and still have not really mentioned or hunted on any others than Moon, whom you voted for derp, fear, and flawed reasoning. You never followed up on her at all. Never gave promised content, which I find scummy.  And everyone one else relevant who you mentioned is now dead.
While it is true you didn't push for a Prinny lynch, you called him scummy and did not put pressure on him at all. This is contradictory to me. You are passive in so many ways and let others hunt for you.
Tell me who you think is scum and why, please.

And actually, let me understand you a little better.

Anyway. Moon looks bad, but I can't quite tell yet whether it's derp bad or derp scummy bad. In any case, I do not like the fear oozing from her posts and the same goes for her flawed speculative reasoning. I would probably give a pass to either, but both taken together... no. Actually, scratch that. She's most likely scum.

So we establish you think she's derpy, but you fence sit over which kind. The fear, I see where you're coming from on that. Flawed reasoning, can you show me where and why it is scummy when combined with the general bad play you say she has? And why is she still worthy of your vote on D1 after her long post where she stops being fearful and derpy?

[Kiva-la]

It is now Day 2.

Yare yare. Here I was thinking that it was weird that there weren't any posts yet.
And then I saw page 8.

So apparently I've managed to earn the hate of everyone here. I guess some explanation is in order.
Firstly, my case on Protoman.EXE. It was the case that appealed to me most at the time, therefore I decided to see what I could make of it.
Switch to The Comedian. Are you really telling me that his post wasn't bad? He still hasn't told me what part of my original case on Protoman.EXE was OMGUS-y. Nor does he actually respond to any of my points about his post in #108. Also, now that I reread #108, he seems to have completely ignored the part in my post where I told him that I was voting for Protoman.EXE due to a chainsaw defence of Mai who I believed to have only made posts that were null tells at the time.
Switch to Sailor Moon. At the time Sailor Moon's only posts were the ED1 votes, which still seem off to me, and posts saying that she would post once she had calmed down a bit or something. This seems like a perfect example of scum screwing up early and then using AtE to buy herself some more time.
Switch to Prinny. The Prinny was completely useless, only restating information and poking the less active players. Not to mention it disappeared during the latter half of the day. And since Sailor Moon started being less useless and actually making cases, I would have rather seen her go onto D2 than the Prinny.

Questions? Feel free to ask, I'll be writing another post in the meantime.

[Kiva-la]

you should maybe, like, also go after Combo Breaker for... not taking any stance at all. :V

Yare yare. lolredirect.

Okay. Firstly, Sailor Moon. You had better be amazing today if you want to change my opinion of you. And you have yet to give your reasoning behind your first three posts where it looked like you were trying to get me lynched for quoting the mod in response to a general question about the game. Your disappearance for half the day does not give me a good impression of you. Not to mention how in your :effort: post, the first half of the post is saying either nothing, or an apology to Protoman.EXE. As for your actual cases, your case on Anonymous was based solely on how he was addressing other people, and the Prinny/Light cases were pretty boring and had been given by most other people. The only reason I considered your post to be actual trying was because the case on Monoe looked somewhat interesting. So, please prove to me that I shouldn't be going after your head today, please.
Light Yagami: Go die please. Instead of telling people to go after other people, how about you do it yourself? Is it really so hard? You barely contributed D1, and the above quote from you is absolutely terrible.

Excuse me while I continue writing, the fear of Haruhi dragging me off somewhere means that I can't spend too long on each post.

[Kaku Seiga]

Crocker: Point taken.
About Moon: No fencesitting there, at least not at the point I actually posted that. Notice the "scratch that. She's scum." part?
Flawed reasoning: For starters, the WIFOM in her #94, as already pointed out by you. Generally, a lot of her reasoning is speculative in nature - for example, her going on about a triangle in #87. Speculating, especially on D1, does not lead anywhere; but it's easy to write about. It's that part of her reasoning that appears scummy to me. At best, it does not contribute to finding scum, at worst, it is misleading.
Then comes her big post. Well, there's a reason I still think she's scum after that one - that being that she does not stop being fearful there like you said. There's a lot of  "oh yeah I fucked that up, disregard what I said please". All presented in a way that just screams "forgive me please". How is that not fearful?

Kyon: Notice the "also"?

Now for the next post...

[Kiva-la]

Go away Haruhi, I do NOT want to be involved in whatever it is you're planning now.

Kyon: Notice the "also"?

Yare yare. Let me say this right now. I don't care that much about specific wording. Anybody can make a mistake or word things in a "safe" manner. I care much more about the intent. And that statement looked like you trying to draw attention away from yourself and onto C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER.

Though speaking of C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER, I HATE people that claim to have another post incoming and never deliver. Exist please, else it looks like you're going to be mod-killed at this rate.
I was originally going to yell at John Cage for wasting his night talk, but then some stuff that looks good before the game started. Still don't like how he was D1 though. Will reassess in a future post.
Everybody else has already said everything I want to say about CATS, so no comment there.
No idea what I think of The Comedian right now. Will reread along with John Cage. I still don't like his #72 and the followup in #108 though.

So  for now:
##Vote Light Yagami
##FoS Sailor Moon

[Kiva-la]

This is obvious

To elaborate on what I meant by reading for intent in Light's post, he could have easily made a case on C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER but instead he told John Cage to go look at C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER in lieu of himself. The key difference here is that, instead of hunting for scum, Light appears to be attempting to cover himself by making others look at more vulnerable targets. After all, what is there to be said about C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER anyway? Doesn't exist. Is there anything more you can really say about him?

John Cage. His D1 was pretty terrible. He started off fairly good but turned progressively worse as the day wore on. Having said that, after his night post I'm not really getting any scummy vibes from him.
The Comedian. Mmm. Finding it a bit hard to get a read on him. On the one hand it seems like he was using people expressing their distrust of me to try to start a wagon and furthermore doesn't really read my responses to him. On the other hand, it is true that I managed to gather the distrust of some people. Yare yare. I'd like more posts from you so I can get a better read, please.

[Kaku Seiga]

Kyon: Nope. That reads as "if that is your reason why I'm scum, then why isn't Combo Breaker more scummy to you?". Since that was only one part of what Cage had written about me, I fail to see how it's redirecting attention to Combo Breaker as you said. It's simply attacking one specific part of Cage's reasoning. Actually, you asked Cage yourself on D1 why he specifically voted me.


Cats: Scummy for focusing mainly on Prinny while completely disregarding the Moon wagon. Only real original content is about Prinny. Not my top pick for sure, I can kind of see why he voted Prinny and there's not much else from him to go off yet.

Combo Breaker: I hope he's scum. Well, he'll have to contribute something D2 or he'll get modkilled; no opinion on him yet.

Kyon: Scummy, currently my second pick after Moon. Specifically, going after Prinny basically for active lurking instead of staying on Moon who had actually done scummy things looks bad to me. In #233 he states he voted Prinny over Moon because Prinny was more useless. Does that mean you wanted someone useless lynched over someone that had actually exhibited real scum traits?

Wait, there's still more people?

[Kiva-la]

Actually, you asked Cage yourself on D1 why he specifically voted me.

Yare yare.
So what? I wanted to know John Cage's thought process. Does that make you any less scummy? Nope.
And however you want to interpret is fine but, to me, it looks like a redirect that you made out of desperation. And trying to redirect attention is scummy in my eyes.

And, what? You're calling active lurking not scummy? Both Sailor Moon and Prinny looked scummy to me for different reasons. The Prinny was more useless than Sailor Moon. Therefore, I wanted to see more of Sailor Moon since the Prinny would probably have continued to (active?) lurk and give us no information whatsoever.