Touhou: Awareness of Color Mafia. Day 3.

[NekoNekoRex]

Should have installed Ubuntu, Dan, it's free.

Kind of dislike Oarfish's attack on Raikaria in general. People seem to be focusing too much on Schezo and his posts, which I personally take with a grain of salt. Scum's goal is to deceive and manipulate, and people are reading way too far into what he posts, especially Oarfish and Massaca. It still annoys me that they're basically still sharing thoughts, I have yet to really see them diverge on opinions at all, especially obvious with their apparent double-team on Raikaria.

My thoughts on Zak still hold, mostly because he hasn't shown up in ages.

I feel the sudden urge to have gut on Bard, or maybe I need to consider Chaore, but I feel like neither result will really get anywhere until Chaore's slot becomes active
-Then again, after ISOing Bard, maybe not. Guess it was just random. Actually my gut says he's more likely to be town besides.

Dorian still doesn't sit well with me. He still never seems to give any looks into Massaca or the people voting Massaca, and his stalwart defense of Zak continues to sit badly with me. Why put so much effort into only attacking people against Zak? There's a lot more going on besides, and Dorian doesn't seem to care about any of it.

[Raikaria]

I think Massaca is actually more on my side seeing the sarcasm when he made 'new points' about me criticizing the third on the wagon thing.

Although internet+sarcasm = not a good method of communication.

[NekoNekoRex]

I guess, but the way he worded it "Here's some more ammo" makes me feel otherwise.

[Moridin]

I know I said I was going to post something more detailed but that was a lie. Actually super busy right now with work and throwing buckets of water on peoples head (this is a separate thing to work).

So I'll just say this, Zakeri seems kind of "shady" to me, his posts don't seem to be very coherent or contain many decent points. Maybe he's always like that, I dunno. Doesn't seem very useful if so.

##Vote Zakeri

[Dorian White]

...
The Dorian/NNR slapfight looks like a red herring. Dorian, your case on NNR looks like a lot of confirmation bias because from what I can tell, you could apply the same logic you used on NNR in #360 to a lot of other players in this game. ...

That might be the case but there is more to it than meets the eye, you guys were never good at picking up a subtle hint. But I'm wondering, to who else exactly could I  apply the same logic to? Cause if someone else has borrowed together the suspicions of others to call it ?his opinion? then I must have missed it.

Also just to say; if Dorian said he was the former; I would be outing my role with my evidence. That's how confident I would have been that he is scum.

Since he said the latter, I just have to rely on something else to prove him either way. I will still most likely out during D3 once he has been proven either way.

I don't remember having even heard about the ?former?, so I have still no idea what you are talking about. But your plan to confirm me day three is approved even if it sounds to good to be true.

Getting this out before I get to Nekos latest post.

[BT]

Just posting to say I'm alive and reading. Zak didn't actually vote yesterday after I blocked his vote so it was never confirmed; I'll go for Oarfish this time.

[CF7]

progris riport 2

Currently voting.
Conqueror (1): Animosity
ActionDan (1): Dr Rawr
Dorian (1): NNR
Chaore (1): Just/Bard
NNR (1): Dorian
Zakeri (5): Conqueror, SB, Raikaria, Serela, Moridin84
Dr Rawr (1): Zakeri,
Raikaria (1): O4rfish

Not voting.
Chaore, BT, Massaca, ActionDan

With 15 alive it takes 8 votes to lynch someone.

~36 hours left.

[Raikaria]

Re-reading today's events and a few things stood out:

In this post [So you have context]

I see, it's only too bad that it didn't worked last night, don't you think so?^^

Are you hinting that you know that NNR visited you; Dorian?

Something else that makes me think this is this statement:

That might be the case but there is more to it than meets the eye, you guys were never good at picking up a subtle hint.

So; Dorian, are you suggesting that NNR visited you? And if so, how do you know this? Seems a little odd for a 'miller'.

[Raikaria]

In hindsight I worded the first part wrong because it's 2 things about the same thing.

So it was one thing that irked me.

[Bardiche]

I'm supremely frustrated Chaore's slot is getting a free pass through just replacing, and I feel like the case on Zakeri is mostly Zakeri doing the MOTK thing where he signs up to a game (implying he wants to play), and then subsequently pretends he didn't sign up (pretending he doesn't want to play).

I guess you could argue the same for Chaore but Chaore actually made multiple posts, admitted to padding, and did a whole lot of nothing with the content he has (mostly sitting still and biding his time) whereas Zakeri has at least attempted to create the illusion of Actually Doing Stuff. Granted, both of them have terrible content and terrible attitudes.

##Unvote
##VOTE: Zakeri
I think everyone's valid when they say Zakeri's shit is non-existent mostly and what he does have is bad. It's a step up above Chaore I think, but Chaore isn't getting lynched today due to lolplacements. And the last time I excused someone for shit attitude and shit content, they turned out to be scum. (hi Shadoweh)

[Raikaria]

Oh and this isn't even the core thing that makes me doubtful of Dorian's miller claim by the way. This is just something I've noticed today which casts additional doubt.

[Serela]

Are you hinting that you know that NNR visited you; Dorian?

Dorian, are you suggesting that NNR visited you? And if so, how do you know this? Seems a little odd for a 'miller'.

wait what

I just reread all of NNR's posts today and he never said anything about visiting Dorian.

[Serela]

Oh, now that I reread the second statement and ACTUALLY LOOKED AT DORIAN'S POST that you linked to it makes more sense

The first line I read I thought you were saying more along the lines of "How did you know NNR visited you?"

[Dorian White]

So Neko, I have to wonder here, the scum flip is all that day two brought us. That you can't actually trust scums words is one thing but if a scum flip is nothing to focus on then what is it?
I also have to wonder what's so scummy about sharing thoughts? Now that you spent a good amount of time telling me that it's fine to agree with others.

And about Zakeri. Well, I have seen him play as town and as scum and I don't like the fact as much as any other here but the later is more likely to at least pretend that he puts effort into the game.

You point about Bard and Chaore came kind of out of the blue here but at least we can agree here. Bard is most likely to be town and Chaores slot is about to be replaced, so we should wait for that.

But now you confuse me again, what is it exactly that makes Massaca a special case that I have to comment on? And who do you mean with, ?the people voting Massaca?? The conveniently appearing vote count says there are non and the only one I remember voting him was Schezo, who I'm not supposed to read to far into anyway.
So do you have reason to think it was busing, or what's the point of it?


And now someone notice, have you finally learned to pay attention Raikaria? Na, you next point make me doubt that but I get to it after I had dinner.

[Raikaria]

A miller who knows someone visited him strikes me as a little strange.

And trust me; I have been paying attention throughout the game. I may get confused on occasion, but I have been paying attention. If I was not; I would not be doubting you, and I would not have taken certain actions and precautions that I previously did. And getting confused is quite easy when you have to listen to as many voices as I do.

Indeed, there is something during Day 1 that no-one else seems to have noticed which is somewhat critical to my play so far, including my suspicion of you, Dorian. Ir's not even something that you did. I'm not ready to divulge the specifics of that quite yet however. Some point during Day 3; if everything goes to plan; should be the time, which is when the proof of you should occur, unless something more pressing arises which requires my attention and is a better use of resources.

Provided I'm still alive, of course. Although the whole proof thing will still occur regardless of my life status.

I am aware that I am being very cryptic, however the time is not right yet.

In fact, speaking of paying attention, I wonder how many people have figured out some of the meaning my my own words. I will ask that those people; if they have realized what I am suggesting, keep the others in the dark.

[Dorian White]

In this case is not a lack of attention the game but to the rules.

03. This is a Role Madness game i.e. each role has one or more abilities other than the Basic Rights.

I'm not even sure if that's what you concerned about but in a lot of role madness games is miller only a ?downside? to a more complex role, not the role itself.
Also, I already approved your plan, so do us all a favor and stop taking about it we don't need to know how nor when you do it, the outcome is all that matters here.

Anyway, back to the matter at hand. How I came to the knowledge isn't relevant, important is that I know that NNR visited me last night and since that's all that I could find out had I decided to see what I could do with it. You may remember this:

And when I'm already at the ?who did something at night?, who of you didn't knew that you aren't supposed to visit the miller at night? I mean it's not that I didn't warned you.

My idea was that he hat actual suspected me day one, so coming out with it wouldn't have been a big deal in the first pace.
Maybe I got impatient and I didn't had much hope that it would get me anyway but I intended to vote the guy anyway, so I prepared this post (which explains Raikarias OMGUS observation, ITT I was cut by him cause I still waited for his reaction). Any questions?

[ActionDan]

Ok. Question.  NNr visited you. You warned us not to visit you.  Nnr seems alive. why so bad? You even know he visited

[BT]

I'll do more indepth reading tomorrow because my middle-tier reads don't exist. That'd be stuff like Bard, Oarfish, Conq, Serela, maybe even Rawr. For now I'll be joining in on the popular wagons because fuck that. Seriously though, I'm pretty confident that indepth reading is required. I'm just posting what I think -right now-.

##Vote Dorian

His play feels based around arbitrary things. I mean that he's latching onto specific points and centers his play around that. "Zak usually lurks, so I can use that to form suspicions" is the example that comes to mind (the one that started the Serela vote). His NNR push that began yesterday didn't feel honest in the same way and right now he's mostly focused on that and it feels detached from the rest of the game. The way it started was really arbitrary. Read the post. I plain don't understand the.. well, not the "vote", but what would become the vote. I'm not seeing what made town Dorian find post #92 and start dissecting it. And he's still talking about NNR and other associated people. The roleshens may have something to do with it too.

Reading the posts casing Zak reminded me of Medaka Box D1. Maybe it's because Conq's here. CF7 was scum and barely had time to play so he posted occasionally, and the posts were scummy. I argued that it's from those moments that he WAS around that we can judge his alignment and that it was pretty clear based on that. I'm bringing this up because it might be the same thing here - I remember Town Zak posts, they usually bring something to the table. In this game he's just trying to get by and I think it's because, in his limited time dedicated to playing the game, it didn't shine through that he's town, because he's not. I wasn't actually too convinced about the Zak cases until that thought surfaced.

rawr concerns me in that he's ignoring everything to slam Dan on a single Schezo post he thought incriminates him. His posts leave me with mixed feelings though, for reasons I can't recall in my groggy state.

I actually feel really shitty. I zoned out over things I wanted to analyze like Massaca's posts. I'll sleep, deal with more exam stuff which I've been ignoring for multi-site ~*~mafia obligations~*~ (I don't want to be the "yet another guy" who says he would have subbed out if it was reasonable, wait, whoops) and see if I sort this out.

For now I'll say that I finally understand how my voteblock works and it's really anti-town! Thanks CF7. Oarfish's vote won't count at the final votecount. If Oarfish's wagon hammers, it won't actually hammer because it'll need one more vote. No I'm not randomly showing this off because I can, there's a reason for it.

CUT: And add to that "why vote NNR if you, Dorian, thought NNR visited you."

[Massaca]

Oarfish and Massaca. It still annoys me that they're basically still sharing thoughts, I have yet to really see them diverge on opinions at all, especially obvious with their apparent double-team on Raikaria.

Where apart from the Dan thing have we shared thoughts?
And I'm town reading Raikaria quite strongly.

[NekoNekoRex]

>Dorian claims Miller, assuming it's of the normal 'don't cop me' variety
>I have reasonable suspicion of Dorian
>Dorian catches me visiting me visiting him Night 1
>I started voting Dorian D2
>>>>>>>Somehow there is not a pro-town reason that I have gone about this series of events
>>>>>>>Dorian is clearly trying to fish a roleclaim out of me

Alright, Dorian, you win, I visited you. Good job.

[Conqueror]

Checking in, will get to post after dinner. Some quick replies

That and conq not committing to a town read on my slot yet

I committed to like two town reads, jeez.  :V
(I'm townreading everyone that I didn't mention in my previous posts. Massaca's latest few posts okay to me so I'm looking at rawr/Chaore/Zak with a side of BT/Serela/Bard. Serela and BT are sorta in a weird nulltown that's different from a straight nulltown read [as in Serela and BT have sorta arrived at a similar place in reads to where I am and I think their content is alright so I have to figure out if we're both town or I'm wrong] and Bard is just unreadable for me. Strongly prefer a lynch in the first three of those while I continue to look over the rest of the game).

@Massaca
It's one thing to say  why you think Moridin is scummy (which is what you did). It's another to basically prodvote someone I'm assuming is a newbie without giving any reasons or elaborating later. Zak literally says nothing about Moridin. In light of that ,one line about Dorian is more voteworthy, which is why I'm seeing his Moridin vote as a votepark.

The role shenanigans involving Dorian are interesting but I still don't think it's the play he would make as scum. BT makes the best points against Dorian I've seen in this thread but I think that's just Dorian's playstyle. I guess I'll reread him again.

[Conqueror]

Also, any bystanders reading this game but not currently in it should replace in for Chaore because I have a hunch he might have something interesting to say about last night.

[Conqueror]

Although BT is there any reason you voteblocked Oarfish instead of someone else? I feel like there are better people to voteblock.

[Conqueror]

Skipping dinner to post in mafia. Ain't I grand.

Reread Dorian and my head is immediately spinning because it's all NNR all day (though I still don't think he's scum).

That might be the case but there is more to it than meets the eye, you guys were never good at picking up a subtle hint. But I'm wondering, to who else exactly could I  apply the same logic to? Cause if someone else has borrowed together the suspicions of others to call it ?his opinion? then I must have missed it.

First of all, in light of recent developments, what's the mafia motivation to visit a miller? I'd think a town role is more likely to visit a claimed miller, if only to confirm the claim. Secondly, about the borrowed suspicions of others you're talking about: it's not a super inspired post but consider that town!NNR completely flaked out of his last few games with bare one-liners. And there's only so many shadows of suspicion in a mafia game, so although you could see those opinions as borrowed suspicions, they could also just be, well, opinions.

Anyway, Dorian, I'm curious about what you think about people like Zak and rawr?

[NekoNekoRex]

Where apart from the Dan thing have we shared thoughts?
And I'm town reading Raikaria quite strongly.

The sarcasm post really threw me off. Even if it was still sarcasm it still felt like you were on the same subject he was.
I should probably throw this out as remembering my reread wrong/remembering D1 too much. I am bad at Mafia.
My gripe is mostly with Oarfish, though.

So Neko, I have to wonder here, the scum flip is all that day two brought us. That you can't actually trust scums words is one thing but if a scum flip is nothing to focus on then what is it?

Focus on the past day's events, not flips? Interactions between a known scum and other players is minor at best, intentional misleading at worst, it would be wrong to lynch someone based on scum interactions without some other heavy evidence they're scum.

And about Zakeri. Well, I have seen him play as town and as scum and I don't like the fact as much as any other here but the later is more likely to at least pretend that he puts effort into the game.

metametametametametametametameta meta is the reason that nobody will ever try to improve their play because they'll just use their bad play as a way to prove to people who buy into this that they're Actually Town, even if their meta is doing anti-town things.

You point about Bard and Chaore came kind of out of the blue here but at least we can agree here. Bard is most likely to be town and Chaores slot is about to be replaced, so we should wait for that.

I was posting my train of thought, the train took a sudden stop at Bard Town Junction.

But now you confuse me again, what is it exactly that makes Massaca a special case that I have to comment on? And who do you mean with, ?the people voting Massaca?? The conveniently appearing vote count says there are non and the only one I remember voting him was Schezo, who I'm not supposed to read to far into anyway.
So do you have reason to think it was busing, or what's the point of it?

Because Massaca was a wagon earlier? Because you're play is tunnely and you're not making remarks on any other players outside of the D1 Zak wagon and Raikaria? If Zak is so town why aren't you analyzing every other shmuck that is voting on your important townie meta wagon?

[Dorian White]

Ok. Question.  NNr visited you. You warned us not to visit you.  Nnr seems alive. why so bad? You even know he visited

Because I wanted to know why Neko took the risk to run into a PGO gambit? You could say that's a unlikely thing to happen in my case but NNR apparently doesn't care about meta.
As I already said was it a ?you work with whatever you got? kind of deal and as he didn't reacted to it was that nothing to help with my suspicion on him.

@BT: I should leave you to your indepth reading, cause I'm not sure what to tell you.
You say that my day one was arbitrary? Well, it was day ?lats talk most of the time about a PR, that I couldn't even care less about, that may or may not exist outside or inside of Dans imagination? one, so I picked the first best thing that struck me as scummy and went with it, guess what? That is arbitrary! As much as every day one, so what's your point?

I get to the rest of the cuts later.

[NekoNekoRex]

I don't recall any warning not to visit you, just that you were a jerk and a Miller

[Dorian White]

@Neko: Na alsdann! Was it that hard? And what gives that away that you couldn't say so in the first place? That you got a role able to visit someone, just like um ? everyone else in the game?
And honestly, are you kidding me? Interaction with known scum is the best alignment indication you could get, when you know how to read them. But that and the rest of your pint's are play style arguments with little connection to anyones alignment.
But when was Massaca actually a wagon?

@Conq: Well, a town role with a downside like miller is at last a point to start with, especially since there wasn't any other claims day one. So why would town hides the fact that he visit me that long? There is nothing the fact alone would give away, so why not saying it?
And yes, I'm aware of how his last games went but to blend into the game with uncontroversial suspicions/opinions (NNR) is still a way better scum MO then to go for as good as confirmed town with nothing but paranoia (rawr) or to call for everyones attention with a belated joke vote, just to vanish after it (Zakeri). Which I guess answers your last question.

I don't recall any warning not to visit you, just that you were a jerk and a Miller

Geez, that was the warning, Miller claim = No night visits wanted! That's a well know fact.

PS: I call it a day, good night.

[Schezo]

Do you want me to publicly claim about 162?

[NekoNekoRex]

@Neko: Na alsdann! Was it that hard? And what gives that away that you couldn't say so in the first place? That you got a role able to visit someone, just like um ? everyone else in the game?

That's assuming a lot, and I was assuming you were just a cop Miller, which wouldn't apply to my role. You never implied you were something more to visitors then a Miller, and I still have good reasons to suspect you and vote you. Besides, why would I reveal my role just to sate your curiousity? Why would I visit the Miller I had suspicion on if I wasn't town?

And honestly, are you kidding me? Interaction with known scum is the best alignment indication you could get, when you know how to read them. But that and the rest of your pint's are play style arguments with little connection to anyones alignment.

Playstyle, meta, etc, a lot of people I don't like are also terribly inactive, even with their respective metas (like Rawr). And with people like Zak and his strange D1 actions you can hardly call that 'playstyle'.

But when was Massaca actually a wagon?

D1.

By the way you still haven't had much to say about anyone else.