Touhou: Awareness of Color Mafia. Day 3.

[Raikaria]

Just a quick thing before I have to go again.Before you blurt out your big revelation just to go, ?Oh wait, ? never mind? after it again, like you did so often this game. Just hypothetical, what kind of evidence could be there to prove that I'm not a miller? Perhaps a ?innocent? on me?^^

It is not an Innocent on you. I have reasonable role-related doubt as to why you are a Miller.

Although here is a question.

Is your role alignment Red but your wincon shared with Green's [Thus making you a form of miller] or is your role alignment Green but you appear Red to cops? [Which is another take on miller]

This actually matters.

[SB]

So many people not posting or barely posting. Where's Chaore.

I'd read the current slapfight but I'm still waiting for O4rfish to come up with a case for having voted me earlier, or some effort to say why my retort to SB was inadequate. Else, it just looks like a lame votepark. After claiming "an entire hand" for FoSes, it's lame O4rfish produces so very few suspects.

I think CF7 said somewhere that he was looking for a sub for Chaore.

I agree that Oarfish should be more open with their reads too.

In the middle of a post now. Unfortunately I have like no scumreads so I feel I may as well just scumhunt from PoE at this point :/

[Bardiche]

A replacement is being looked for Chaore if you check the primary thread.

Scum replacing out, huh.

[Raikaria]

Scum replacing out, huh.

I choose to ignore the anything except the replacement. Saying it's urgent isn't something CF7 should have really said since it gives us information. I choose to ignore that information since we shouldn't have it and I urge people to not read into that information as well. It could be an important town role; or just a role that interacts with someone else. [Eg: Mokou/Kaguya example from signups]

[O4rfish]

Except I didn't vote the wrong person, I just thought it was worse than I thought it was. Still bad, but not as terrible.
Serela's sounding frighteningly competent, I almost want to vote him for not being a waffle-iron perpetually waddling around in utter confusion.
I'm lost on why we're voting ActionDan precisely. Dorian's case seems to be made up wholly of conjecture and what he claims to be personal bias, and he leaps very suddenly into "ActionDan has a Post Restriction"►"Post restriction following gives him anti-Town powers".
If he did, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have mentioned it, since it's rather harmless and there are easier ways to hide it. I do agree with the bit about how it's odd he claims a restriction, but needs to be pressed for clarification when it's so supremely harmless and boring, but I maintain it just isn't enough reason to decide he's Scum on.
(Unvote; VOTE: Dorian)
Dormio voting Raikaria would've been dandy if he hadn't ended with "whatever, game is hard", which feels like post-coital justification to say his vote sucks.

Bard gives props to Serela, confuses Dorian for O4rfish, and attacks Dormio who is voting Raikaria.
Serela confused O4rfish for Dorian.

Bard and Serela both get confused over who is Dorian and who is O4rfish. Kind of a weird coincidence if you aren't sharing a QT.

Cut: My scumreads are Bard, Raikaria, Serela, and possibly ActionDan.

[SB]

I have like no motivation but with the amount of subs we need I would probably feel like a dick for requesting one. Shrug. Fwiw I don't think the people considering the Dan lynch are that scummy, I figured the post restrictions would be back again today with a vengeance and that we might end up needing it, but thankfully it doesn't seem like that's the case?

I think Raikaria was pushing a crack case on Rawr but I don't think he did it in a particularly scummy way.

I think it's scummy to have to make up bullshit reasons in order to vote people, and the reasons O4rfish invented to vote ActionDan were supreme bullshit. If we assume Town earnestly look for Scummy behaviour and Scum have to make up scummy behaviour or reframe behaviour into scummy behaviour to work, O4rfish fits perfectly where he first decides ActionDan is scummy and then tries to reframe everything ActionDan did as being supremely scummy even if it made no rational sense.

I think it's silly you're holding it against me that no one argued about their scumpicks after ActionDan's restriction triggered, especially in light of how we weren't going to be able to lynch anyone else instead. After talking about slow game and lack of suspicions, isn't it absurd to hold it against me that I don't have many either? You're basically saying "mea culpa", then claim it's scummy behaviour in others.

Scum need to make up cases that town believe in and want to follow, they don't want to draw attention to themselves like this, which is why I don't think Oarfish is scum. And yeah, other people have done it too but you didn't even mention anything other than Dan after the post restriction screwed us out of a day 1, which is why I think you're one of the worst offenders. Admittedly other people are probably in the same vote but I just don't have the motivation for this and you stuck out to me.

Your case on Chaore is okay but my gut reaction to his posts were that he was town?

I don't really agree with the Dorian cases because I don't think scum would have the balls for an ED1 miller claim in a role madness game. Frustratingly I don't think anyone who's pushing the wagon is actually scummy though?

I feel like I shouldn't want to just read Conq's Rawr case and sheep him but I really want to. Welp. I want to know why Conq is voting Zak though, because I can't really find anything on it in his previous posts?

Seriously though I feel like Rawr/Zak/Bard are the only people I don't have reasons to townread at this point and it kind of sucks.

Meh.

##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri

He had very few opinions yesterday and never really took a strong stance on anything, taking more time to talk about game theory with the third on the wagon stuff and choosing to prodvote Morodin over pursuing one of his own suspicions which doesn't make any sense to me. He did nothing after the post restriction kicked in and as far as I can tell he just voted rawr on gut after Conq laid down his vote?

[Bardiche]

So your case is crackpot theory. Okidoki.

Raikaria, I strongly believe Chaore's behaviour to date is inconsistent with a Town agenda.

thankfully it doesn't seem like that's the case?

It might be in one of the people who haven't posted or has posted sparingly but decided not to mention it. For all we know it could be on Chaore.

[Raikaria]

Raikaria, I strongly believe Chaore's behaviour to date is inconsistent with a Town agenda.

I never said this is not the case.

I am just not keen on using information from outside the game itself. I did try and push on Charoe during Day 1, and it dosen't seem right to push on him with the only new evidence I have since then being information from outside this thread.

[O4rfish]

I didn't really have an opinion on Raikaria until the beginning of d2.

OK let's play the 'what did the scum do' game.
---
Schezo switches his vote to Massaca having allegedly mixed them up.
---
Schezo basically confirms Dan town for us.

So, according to Raikaria, Schezo "allegedly" mixes up Moridin and Massaca, but his posts claiming Dan as Town are true facts.

[Raikaria]

Also I think Dorian is more likly to be scum and he really should come back and answer my question.

And after Dorian my 2nd priority is Zakeri at this point; then probobly O4rfish if Zakeri shapes up.

Then we probobly get to Charoe based on in-game information.

I'm not even going to respond to O4rfish. He is blatantly ignoring what I stated was the primary reason that I think Dan is town. Instead I'll just point out the context of that line.

The part in question that basically confirms it is a part which is COMMON SENSE that anyone could have said, and multiple people have said as well as Schezo.

Well I can't imagine scum would hit themselves with a vote restriction that would make them hated and the only lynch target if it messed up.

Unless someone who is town set such a restriction on him.  They would probably claim it by now since I'm pretty sure they knew what would happen if Dan broke it.  So I'm inclined to believe scum set that on him since even if he isn't lynched it's still a setback to town.   

[Massaca]

lolwut?
Here's some more ammo you can fire at Raikaria

It's bad to assume someone 3rd on the wagon is automatically scum for that.

I mean; is Dormio scum for being 3rd on your wagon? Or how about Schezo on Serela?

>___________>

[Raikaria]

Oh yes; let's completely say that me pointing out the horrible flaw in the '3rd on the wagon' argument is 'ammo' to be used against me when I give both examples of those 3rd on the wagons.

It feels as if you guys are just flinging stuff at me and trying to see what sticks at this point. As I said before; it is amusing. And hilarious.

And distracting me from what I need to be focusing on. Which is setting the stage for my proof that Dorian is scum.

[Massaca]

Well I guess I failed the sarcasm badly :/

[Bardiche]

I thought it was obvious from the "lolwut?" and ">_______>"

Really, Raikaria. pls.

I can honestly not blame SB for his lack of motivation but I still think he should Townread me because I'm so Town. (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))

[Raikaria]

You all know my sarcasm detector is broken.

Especially when O4rfish is already forming such an awful case on me. I can't tell if it's desperation to try and get me out of the game [I'm half expecting to be nightkilled] or to discredit me for when I prove Dorian is scum.

Or if he's just completely barking up the wrong tree. But him still insisting Actiondan is scum makes me severely doubt this. Not to mention not even listing Zakeri as a scumread.

[Dorian White]

Phone post, cause I'm not home and Piefke gets annoying.

...
Is your role alignment Red but your wincon shared with Green's [Thus making you a form of miller] or is your role alignment Green but you appear Red to cops? [Which is another take on miller]...

It's the later.

[Raikaria]

Phone post, cause I'm not home and Piefke gets annoying. It's the later.

Well; by the end of Day 3 we shall know if you are telling the truth or not then. And no scum; killing me won't prevent Dorian either being confirmed as town or scum during Day 3.

Since I no longer have definitive proof; although I have reasonable doubt still; I shall drop this for now.

Instead:

#Unvote
#Vote: Zakeri

Put simply? Nothing he's done rings town to me. From his Serela wagon-hopping thing; to his 'jokevote' to his complete lack of real scumhunting and input on the Dan issue at the end of the day.

It's close between me voting for Zakeri and O4rfish right now, and my gut says there is a chance O4rfish has really misguided town intent, while Zakeri has not done anything which in my eyes looks like it could be town.

[Bardiche]

O4rfish is already forming such an awful case on me. I can't tell if it's desperation to try and get me out of the game [I'm half expecting to be nightkilled] or to discredit me for when I prove Dorian is scum.

Or if he's just completely barking up the wrong tree.

O4rfish just approaches the game in a different way, I think. He first thinks you're Scum, then looks at your actions, then rhymes any possibility of Scum with it, like when he argued ActionDan was likely to be Scum intentionally invoking a 1v1 with No Lynch-tan.

[Raikaria]

Also just to say; if Dorian said he was the former; I would be outing my role with my evidence. That's how confident I would have been that he is scum.

Since he said the latter, I just have to rely on something else to prove him either way. I will still most likely out during D3 once he has been proven either way.

[Raikaria]

Provided I'm not nightkilled or lynched before then, of course.

But I am not a being of action. Killing me will not prevent the events set into motion already. Be warned scum, if you strike me down in an attempt to protect Dorian he will still be found.

[O4rfish]

Let's see how many interactions this case has.

Serela emptyvotes Raikaria
gives Dorian a point
delves into the Dorian/NNR/SB/Chaore/Zak tangle
mixes up Dorian  and O4rfish

Is the first to criticize Raikaria's Dr Rawr case

Hm. It looks like Serela's interactions on Serela's side don't make Serela look too bad. Serela could possibly be the victim of buddying.

Cut: that's fairly accurate Bard.

[Massaca]

From his Serela wagon-hopping thing;

Do you mean this?

Don't worry SB, the best reads so far are the ones on Serela and the other guy for bandwagon hoping.

It's not like there was much in the way of actual reads at the time IIRC and it was like 12 hours into day 1.

If not then can you clarify?

Just not feeling the Zak vote when to me Moridin was worse in the same regards but also posting a bit more.


Actually, is Zak's V/LA legit or was it just a joke?

[Raikaria]

Yeah pretty much that. Even crediting that as a 'good' case is awful. And I'm fairly sure there were better reads at that point than the wagon hopping.

Mordin doesn't feel brilliant to me but his posts don't seem as scum-intent as Zakeri [Eg: Distracting the town with the whole jokevote fiasco]

[Massaca]

Am I going to get yelled at for "answering for [Zakeri]" if I say how I interpretted that quote?

Also haven't read past Rawr's last post other than most of what's after my Moridin post so I need to get on that (and see if Oarfish ends up looking scummier still) but whilst I'm here just gunna say thanks to Bard for his response to my question in #331 or 2, that makes enough sense to me.

[O4rfish]

Bard:
chastises Serela for stupid vote, and also appears to not be surprised at ActionDan's PR.
chastises Moridin for same
spends a couple posts being suspicious of Dan
pats Serela for voting Zak, votes Moridin for "empty unvote" although he meant Massaca
discusses with Chaore about Dan
Congratulates Serela, votes Dorian instead of me, chastises Dormio for voting Raikaria

(Dan fails the PR)
Bard spends a couple posts defending Dan as town
mentions 3/15 chance of scum
quotes Schezo saying I'm crazy

day 2
cases Chaore
defends from Massaca
defends Dorian from NNR

Most of his stuff looks decent. The 3/15 is Schezo agreeing with Bard, which we should read as WIFOM on Schezo's part in regards to the number of scum whether Bard is scum or town.
Somewhat positive interactions with Serela, Raikaria, Schezo, Dorian
Negative interaction with Dr Rawr and BT.

[Moridin]

Urgh, this place is too active. It's kind of difficult to keep up. Even if it's just the same people.

First thing first, I don't think that being for or against the ActionDan lynch is a good indicator of MAFIA. Quite a few people went both ways, for various reason. Some of which were good, some of which were bad.

I'm kind of suspicious of Dorian and Zakeri. I'm try and look through everything again in the evening and see why exactly.

then after Serela remarks about thinking Moridin doesn't get the Dan restriction thing proper, is suddenly all for the no-lynch without any reference as to why or what he misunderstood to make him comepletely change his mind going from "he's probably town, we should lynch him to confirm" to " He's def town, lynching town is bad, let's not do that!".
Sure a couple hours are plenty of time for him to change his mind but without explaining why it seems like he may have just switched under a bit of pressure from Raikaria and Dan between his #266 and his #271. Unless it's supposed to be implied that those two posts between made him understand and convinced him but he doesn't mention or acknowledge them at all *shrug*

The moment I realized it was literally when Serela made that remark. It was a eureka moment.

Essentially, I realized that him becoming the lynch target confirmed that what he said about his post restriction was true. Which meant that most of the reasons for lynching him was gone. I didn't mention it because I didn't think that anyone cared and because I was a little embarrassed about not realising such an obvious thing. I  think I had just forgotten about the reason why it switched to an ActionDan/No Lynch choice in the first place.

Also @ Moridin,
Any particular reason you've allcaps'd every instance of the words Town and Mafia? Just strikes me as odd.

I think it's more clear to use a consistent convention. When I use caps you know I'm referring to the specific factions. Well it might not be beneficial but other people, but it's easy for me to write and organise my thoughts this way.

[ActionDan]

So my computer OS won't start. I'm going to try fixing it but in the meantime these walls are washing over me

[Serela]

I think o4rfish and Raikaria are town as much as I can't agree with most of what they say. I have some other townreads but scumreads are more important, so. Uh. Actually I'm probably going to just end up using PoE to help make things easier like I always do (Because why would you not? Especially with 15 people running around still ;_;), so I guess I'll just get out with it.

Town reads:Raikaria O4rfish SB ActionDan (If you question the SB one, well, he's pretty transparent about his reads and it reads out pretty good imo, although the aimlessness with scumreads is admittedly questionable, if he's town things should get better over time)
Pretty good looking ATM:Dormio Conq, Just, BT
Can't touch 'dis:Chaore, Moridin, Massaca (Latter two are new and I don't know what to do with it yet, Chaore is replacement shenanigans and I can't decide whether I actually think his d1 looks scummy or not which the lack of existing in d2 makes ooof)
Confirmed Scum Tier:hi schezo how's it going

Okay who's left.

11. Dorian
15. NekoNekoRex
02. Dr Rawr
05. Zakeri

Zakeri hasn't existed yet today and was pretty meh D1 as everyone has already noticed (therefore no need to elaborate), although he was also under v/la during the whole thing. He's actually being the go-to votepark for today as far as I can tell, which isn't surprising. There's nothing explicitly bad though he's just really underwhelming and hasn't made a serious post yet now that the game is actually going.

Rawr... basically the only thing he did D1 was comment on it being weird that Dan had been given a PR, and suggesting Dan fullclaim after the Dan v. NL happened. D2 there's the attempt to lynch Dan, albiet he does have decent justification from Schezo's posts? Rawr is also fairly meh, and in the end we're pretty much still waiting on his opinions like we are from Zak, although Rawr's at least analyzed the Dan situation- even if that's a pretty easy and obvious thing to do.

BT isn't actually on the list because his d1 was fine but during my rereads I realized he hasn't posted yet d2??? We're almost a day and a half in hello please :C And uh, I don't really know what to say about Dorian, I don't really feel like voting him right now though. I actually kinda like NNR now that I look at his posts again, mostly because his comments on Dorian are the same things I was thinking to myself D1 but wasn't really sure if they were worth saying or investing in. He's not a town read though, he's just null.

So looking over this post, that means Zak/Rawr are the people I'd be most okay with lynching right now! ...this took hours, I can't concentrate very long at once for whatever reason >_> I had to hold my lunch hostage until after I finished rereads in order to make myself do it all

##Vote Zakeri
since Rawr actually does have some content out and said they were going to look over everyone else too, soon.

[NekoNekoRex]

I'm saying Schenzo was apathetic to the lynch either way. He voted on both sides, although he ultimately voted for No-Lynch. He basically said it doesn't matter to him, since he said that it doesn't matter to scum. I don't see a reason why this is a lie. Removing the NML and mislynching a townie are both beneficial to scum. Similar attitudes may therefor be indicative of scum. Which several of the people voting for a Dan lynch had.

I can build on this by noting that scum benefits either way by the D1 thing. Forcing a No Lynch gives Scum better odds in endgame, and removes a Town-Controlled kill from the game, which means scum has more sway over who is killed during the course of the game.
On the other hand, If Town!Dan is killed it's a myslynch and scum remove a townie from the game, which is obviously beneficial to the scum wincon.

[ActionDan]

Computer will be fixed tomorrow.   Also I am annoyed it will cost 380 to install an OS plus drivers. I feel ripped off.

Phone posting sucks.

The most remotely interesting thing I've seen here is a claim that dorian isn't a miller.  That and conq not committing to a town read on my slot yet