The iDOLM@STER Mafia Thread 1 (Locked)

[PX]

Ihavenoname replaces CF7 immediately

[Vhaltz]

I like firephoenix's case. Specifically this part.

Elsewise he just contributed as little as possible throughout the game, either nitpicking out minor flaws in others' posts, or just making emotional rants without much contribution. Where is him when the most heated part of discussion of whether lynching CF7 or Raikaria came up? He just lurked, if the former hints of him dropping off the radar isn't enough, then being so carefree during the goddamn d1 lynch should be enough to raise alarm bells.

Hell, even Sky Paladin, who was pretty much lurking for the duration of early d1 mustered up a (despite small) case concerning his reads, Serela has done neither of those, enough reasons to wagon

I missed this in my ISO because I wasn't reading Serela's posts within thread context yet, but I doublechecked in-thread this time and this all stands a lot more solidly than I was expecting it to, it's essentially the same point I brought up about Serela!scum in Town Mafia when I said he was coasting on townreads. This game he just disappeared for the whole of late D1 because why bother? He had a wagon building on him ED1 but it dissolved in favor of other targets before half the day had gone by, it makes tons of sense for scum to stop posting at that point where not many people were considering lynching him anymore.

His last D1 post is #171 where he also happens to be leaving himself on the biggest wagon after CF7's claim with no comment on his claim other than "oh yeah well it could also be a scum role", without addressing how the claim was scattered around several posts which was an oddball thing we don't see often and was actually worth addressing. He was gone for 25+ hours after that with the excuse of forgetting about mafia which is just not something town would do. Bolded for emphasis.

Add that to the absolutely horrid replies to the case just recently where he is clearly attempting to divert attention onto lurkers and you've got yourself Serela scum. I don't buy that as town you'd only notice just now how little Dan has contributed in-thread and/or decided it wasn't really worth any attention until now. Lynch scum Serela guys. Again.

[Validon98]

Argh, I've been busy with school and stuff for the last day and I'll be busy for at least a few more hours. I still need to respond to Conq about what posts of Mitsuki's I didn't like (the one I can remember off the top of my list is the one where she suggested just lynching a lurker if no one would consolidate on a vote, which is a stupid decision because it's almost a random lynch and the odds of hitting scum over hitting town are very low), and I have to read the end of the commercial break and what has happened so far in D2 more clearly than the glancing I've just now really been able to do. I still don't like Shadoweh but I won't vote until later when I can actually get some freaking time to read things in detail and not flail due to lack of information. All I know right now from quick glances is that A- BT is dead and B- There's apparently some QT everyone is talking about which I'm not part of.

[Vhaltz]

I posted that accidentally before I was finished. Oh well, I think I'm not leaving anything out really.

##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

Dan is doing things the Dan way in the QT. Imo he is just town having fun speculating and I don't see him as scum right now. As scum he could've just pushed Mitsuki for the PM mistake and revealed it in-thread immediately, but he didn't. If anything he'd be a town role with an alternate anti-town wincon but he never mentioned anything remotely resembling or hinting at conditional powers so I don't think it's the case either.

[Shadoweh]

You guys suck. To be fair I haven't done anything since commercial break since it was a Tuesday and I'm writing this immediately before going to work. You'll have to wait until I get back to hear my delightful singing voice and decide who I want to lynch. Honestly I'm not sure who to go for from here, I'm not exactly good at changing targets. <_< I'm sure this is a terrible post but oh well.

I wasn't expecting BT to die last night. I'm extremely disappointed that that didn't work out.

Dan lurking was bad, but if he's being active in the QT I can understand it. Just uh, don't forget what happened last game.

[Vhaltz]

Also @SB please don't do that kind of post again it's really unreadable.

If you're going to reference earlier posts like that at least provide a link so that it's somewhat possible to follow it.

[I have no name]

Here, reading, taking notes and all that stuff people who just replaced in do.  Will post around dinner, and it'll probably be a bit of a wall  :V

[NekoNekoRex]

So, reread Shadoweh

on one hand, his posts don't have any scumvibes
but on the other hand, that's probably  because he hasn't actually scumhunted the entire game

My gut's not on him but there's nothing to actually gut, which is a problem.

[SB]

See Prims, we don't need you to lynch the doc day 1!

To answer the accusations that yesterday I did nothing but push people to vote for Raikaria I counter with: Yes. That's exactly what I did. And it made people vote Raikaria instead of waffling around like idiots so I'd call it mission fucking success. If you really want to blame someone, blame yourselves for fucking around on other wagons for so long that by the time you consolidated we didn't have time to agree on another wagon. Except maybe lynching me in a quickwagon because ~*~I'm Shadoweh~*~

The lack of denial isn't scummy. What bugs me is her justification for it. Yes, we weren't in the best of situations as far as wagons went but that doesn't make your involvement in Raikaria's lynch disappear. However, I wouldn't assume that is Shadoweh scum instantly solely based off of Raikaria's flip, townies can push mislynches hard too since they don't know what they're pushing.

Dislike DarkNinja for pretty much saying "we should lynch Sky Paladin for lurking", but then doesn't attack other lurkers like Zak for it?. I actually think Sky is a cautious newb!town right now for the "i dont want to lynch day 1", even if its a flawed idea.

Agree with Vhaltz on #389. The slot is definitely improving a bit in my eyes.

In the end, the one who irks me most is Serela. We are all pretty familiar with his playstyle, while I am nothing close to familiar on motk, I did read up a couple of his recent games and found that his attitude this time differs exponentially from his rest. His passive aggressiveness in making most of his posts and poorly disguised enthusiasm doesn't coordinate with his generally shy style of play. Moreover, he's now much more definite in calling people out, but has a big gap between in which he submits a sound logical case to convict said suspects he named, which causes me to further raise my alarm, it implies that he is being assisted, by scum.

No. This does not make Serela scum. This means that Serela is playing in a different style to usual, and imo it's better. Not playing to your town meta means nothing unless you're playing to your scum meta. People's styles will change over time and this is a really dumb reason to be so sure that Serela is scum.

NNR's last post reads like he's just waffling on Shadoweh and trying not to give a read on her.

fuck it i just want to get this done

maf
1. CF7 - still find his slot scummy, i don't get why people dropped him from their scumspects. mafia can play really badly and mess up claims too, i know that all too well >.>
2. Shadoweh - tunneling raikaria was bad but i'm not sure why scum would've bothered to tie themselves down that hard onto a
10. Conq - has had various posts that i dislike. his interactions with raikaria actually bug me more than shadoweh's honestly, although i'm having a hard time explaining stuff
11. darkninjaabc - i've already said why i don't like him. his cases feel forced and i feel like he's tunneling hard with bad cases

inbetween
3. Mitsuki/Vhaltz - mitsuki had a lost of questionnable content but vhaltz appears to be a lot townier in my eyes. floating around null
everyone not mentioned

town
13. Serela - his playstyle feels townier than usual to me, i don't agree with the cases on him
7. Sky Paladin - feels newbtown to me

sorry guys i'm completely mafia'd out and i have homework to do, i'll try and get back soon i guess?

[NekoNekoRex]

I'm  not waffling on Shadoweh, in the sense I think he might be town, I'm just unsure if he's worth voting or not over someone I actually have gut and a case on.

All I have on Shadoweh is "made a vote on Raikaria, sheeped Conq later to support the vote, pushed the wagon to eternity", while his posts don't sour my gut any.
I don't actually know/recall what Scum!Shadoweh is supposed to read like though

[Vhaltz]

It's okay SB I didn't agree with the playstyle argument either.

It's just that Serela is still scum for everything else I mentioned which are not only pretty solid points but they have happened before in other Scum!Serela games. Why do you generalize the Serela cases down to the playstyle argument and say you don't agree with both of them? Didn't you read his latest posts? They were blatant attempts at diverting attention, he hasn't even voted Dan for them since he's content with sitting at the first spot of the Shadoweh wagon (which, tadah, is one of the few wagons that people have shown interest in during the commercial break)

I insist that Serela is the one and only lynch for today.

[I have no name]

Townie Voting Block:   ~*~Shadoweh~*~ Conqueror, Neko, Mitt Serela, Darkninjaey, CF7,BT, SB

I know this is still an early-mid D1 post but it really bugged me when I saw it.
Then I realized why.
This is the entire active playerlist at the time EXCEPT FOR Raikaria.
Sky Paladin, Validon, Zakeri, ActionDan and Mitsuki all had very very few posts.  Everyone else is in the townlist.  I disagree with making townlists and lynching from who's left in principle this early in the game, since giving scum an early pass as town can make them be overlooked later.

Either way this looks really weird and almost sort of bad.  Through post 120 initial impressions are Serela looks kind of bad at first but gets better and darkninja just looks really bad.  Will refrain from voting until caught up, but first dinner.

[SB]

why am i still playing someone shoot me now

i'm looking through serela's ISO and I'm missing most of the stuff that you're talking about in there. the only time I remember him calling people out was shadoweh (repeatedly) which honestly wasn't a bad idea considering even she admits that she had zero scumreads. i can't help but feel serela is town from early posts that I liked, I dunno. i'll admit he's making an easy vote though, but he's had like one post on actiondan so far this phase so it's sort of blowing it out of proportion, especially since it's not like there isn't a case for a shadoweh lynch.

also IHNN apparently thinks I'm active. lol

[Vhaltz]

I still don't see town forgetting about mafia for 25+ hours. Serela has coasted by late D1 in other scumgames and has done the same this game. Going through Serela's ISO doesn't help because you need to look at the posts in Day 1 vote progression context, he disappeared once the wagon on him was down to one person (not saying anything means he couldn't make a target out of himself again) and people busy were entertaining a 1vs1 situation on Rai and CF7 for the day lynch. All while sitting on the wagon of a recently claimed CF7 who could prove his role.

Also still believe his latest posts were meant as blatant diversions so that people would look at Dan instead of the case on him. It used to be in the post right above but it was quoted straight out of the neighbour QT so it was deleted, but I was checking the thread between classes and it was definitely still there when Serela posted. The timing is way too convenient.

Serela is definitely scum again.

##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

[Vhaltz]

and people busy were

Holy motherfuck how did I do that

[I have no name]

also IHNN apparently thinks I'm active. lol

ok so you weren't -that- active but your few posts were memorable.

I'm almost caught up but this game makes my head hurt  :ohdear:

Opinions haven't changed that much though.

[I have no name]

Ok caught up and stuff because I stopped taking organized notes on things and just read through.

Suspect list:
Shadoweh-for the reason I mentioned a few posts ago, the constant tunneling of Raikaria without looking for alternatives, and I didn't notice anything really changing during N1 before I was honestly skimming at that point >_>
ActionDan-lurky lurky lurky, apparently in a QT and active there but since I can't see it I can't act on it.  I dislike his posts in thread as they're all very short and give no reasoning for why he votes who he votes.  There's time to lurk less in thread, though, so I would still prefer Shadoweh.
darkninja-Why are people saying he's town, because the gist of what I got from that was "too scummy to be scum".  I don't like the entire exchange with CF7 ED1, it's flimsy reasoning due to being ED1 but it doesn't mean I have to like it.  Further tunneling, though admittedly in a better way than Shadoweh.  Reads like a newer player (if this is incorrect someone let me know), so I'm less sure of this read.
Sky Paladin-Also very lurky.  Didn't see anything to swing my read either way, but I will say that no lynch with even players gives a mathematical advantage if and only if all lynches/kills are assumed to be truly random, which in an actual game they would not be.
Serela&Vhlatz/Mitsuki- I'm less suspicious of these 2 than anyone else on the list, due to play shaping up with time.  First impressions are strong however, and I'm not willing to let an initial gut read go so easily.

##Vote: Shadoweh
time to disappear for a few hours

[Sky_Paladin]

Sorry I haven't posted much in this phase.  It was a strategic decision.  The results of my night activity were inconclusive.  I was hoping to see something in thread to help clear up the meaning of it.  It's hard to discuss it without giving anything away, though :/  So I thought I would just bide my time but nothing has come up in thread that I could use so far. 

Anyway, my reads:

1. IHaveNoName/CF7 - Same alignment as Shadoweh (Town if town, scum if scum)
2. Shadoweh - Scum
3. Mitsuki/Vhaltz - Inconclusive
5. NNR - Suspicious
6. ActionDan - Inconclusive
7. Sky Paladin - totally scum oshi-town of course. 
8. Validon98 - inconclusive
9. Serious Bananas - townish
10. Conq - suspicious
11. darkninjaabc - suspicious
13. Serela - very suspicious
14. Zakeri - inconclusive

[NekoNekoRex]

Listreads are bad and lazy, don't do that.

[NekoNekoRex]

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh

I thought about it a bit and decided that a complete lack of scumhunting is worse then anti-town play from Validon. Although I guess that makes Validon my #2

I still feel like Ninja is simply too ridiculous to be scum, I expect his scumbuddies would be trying to help him not make terrible posts. Maybe needs to be vigged to make sure, imo.

Do you think I'm doing any better Valthz or do you think I'm still scum? Thoughts on my blurb on Validon?

I'm ISOing Palidin atm too

[NekoNekoRex]

shit what's the votecount?

[NekoNekoRex]

oh gosh, only L-2

dodged a bullet there

[Sky_Paladin]

Listreads are bad and lazy, don't do that.

How do you folks do it around here?  I thought I'd given my reads on people previously, but people kept saying I hadn't done it, and then said I was lurking despite posting what I thought to be quite a lot.  So I copied from BT (or so I thought).

[Sky_Paladin]

Also, a couple of acronyms are throwing me - I figured out QT, but what does ISO stand for? 

[PX]

Keep Building Up Your Relationships

Song: Relations

Shadoweh (5) - Serela, Sky Paladin, Zakeri, Ihavenoname, NekoNekoRex
Zakeri (1) - Conqueror
Serela (2) - Darkninjaabc, Vhaltz
Not Voting: Everybody else

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||(72%)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Shadoweh is at L-2

[NekoNekoRex]

Also, a couple of acronyms are throwing me - I figured out QT, but what does ISO stand for?

ISO means "Isolation", i.e reading someone's post while ignoring everyone else's posts.

List posts are bad precisely because it looks lazy. There's no reason put behind your reads. Scum use it to look like they're scumhunting while avoiding definitive reads.

Why am I suspicious to you, for example? If you're basing the reason on the earlier post, you could just refer to the last read with updates "I still don't feel NNR is reading any better because X reason

Otherwise it's just "X is suspicious", which gives us no insight as to why (you might as well have no reason at all)

[Vhaltz]

@Paladin What NNR means is that those listreads, if happening, should be accompanied by reasoning to each read. What BT did was comment his reasons for reading players one way or the other shortly and then sum it all up in a list for the record. If you feel like people are missing out on something you have already said then you should quote them and then quote your own post in which you already did/commented that thing, if they still find something wrong with it and feel like it needs an update or whatever then they'll tell you.

@NNR I feel like you'd be doing even better if you voted Serela :V

Validon is a null/townlean at the moment and he doesn't come close at all in my concerns compared to Serela, so to be honest I wasn't paying much attention because I didn't agree much. I just really want Serela lynched over everybody else to see if he flips red like I expect him to and I can get associative reads out of it. I can't say I'd be too sad about Shadoweh being lynched in his stead because she's number two in my scumspects list.

Although now that I think of it her last post was really and I haven't read that much into Zak's last post either. I should find out at some point if I prefer his lynch over Shadoweh's. Even if I do that I don't really want to pursue a case that isn't Serela today unless I really have to, Serela reads like outright scum and lynching anybody who isn't him has chances of not hitting scum that I wouldn't want to risk going through with. It's bedtime here now but there's plenty of time left in D2 and I have the whole day off tomorrow so I can finally reread as much as I need, just don't expect me to change my vote anytime soon.

[Vhaltz]

Oh, forgot to answer question about yourself. Kind of null I guess, not really interested in getting you lynched for D2 at least, I'd have to see how your game goes from here and how you associate with flips before I make a proper decision since my reading into your words instead of your actions doesn't seem to have worked too well.

Wondering where Conq disappeared off to.

[Sky_Paladin]

Thanks for those explanations, NekoNekoRex and Vhaltzo.  I'll put up a better reasoning in the next few hours. 

About Serela - I read them as scum on d1 but I didn't think I could build a case for them so I didn't say anything about it.  I could build a case for Shadoweh though, so that's why I pushed for them over Serela. 

I intitially read Serela as town.  When I went back to check who else had voted for Raikaria, I was surprised to see Serela's vote there.  I then went and did an ISO (thanks ^__~) on Serela and that's when I changed my opinion. 

Yesterday I didn't see anybody else talking about Serela.  But today, it seems like everybody is.  I'm trying to consider if there is a relationship between Shadoweh and Serela.  But, I've run out of time this morning.  I have to get ready for work :/  At least it's a short shift.  I'll be back in a few hours. 

[Vhaltz]

@Paladin you shouldn't really restrict yourself to the "popular" targets unless it's close to deadline though. There's still over half the day left, just read everybody and try to find who you think the scummiest is, then make a case on them and see if people are willing to join you on lynching that person. If they don't and the day starts flying by with nobody really paying attention to your case and vote then you'll probably be expected to look closer into the popular targets to consolidate on a lynch at the end of the day.

That said I'll be going to bed now because I need to make up for the lost sleep from last night.