The iDOLM@STER Mafia Thread 1 (Locked)

[Raikaria]

OK.

I've claimed Doc, you're still pushing.

That's about as anti-town as you can get.

##Unvote
##Vote: Conqueror

I know I told Raikaria to claim but him confidently throwing out the claim without a hint of resistance means he expects the claim to save him. compare to how his inventor claim came out  last game in mirai nikki mafia where he tried to hold back before letting it all out.

And don't try and discredit my claim with a 'lack of resistance'. If I see my neck on the chopping block as a Doctor, I'm not going to give you more ammunition to use against me by NOT CLAIMING when you ASK ME TO CLAIM. At least if I'm not lynched there may be a town role that can see who targets me during the night; or can divert a kill or something.

There's a huge difference between holding back as an inventor/gift giver, and holding back as the Doctor. Aside from the fact that there's only one part of my role to claim and not multiple.

Cut by votes; not sure if hammer.

Remember who pushed.

[Raikaria]

Also I find it hilarious that the main reason that seems to be used against me is 'Raikaria is attempting to learn from his past mistakes and using them to form cases against people doing what he was told was bad'.

[NekoNekoRex]

I've claimed Doc, you're still pushing.

Well yeah, you shouldn't expect a claim to save you unless it's really creative or explains your behavior.
Where's the crumbs?
Can you come up with more on Conq or are you just reaction-voting? Surely he's done more scummy things throughout the game then simply push you.

[Mitsuki]

The problem is that you recognize that kind of reasons were used on you and you were town. You should know that town can also make mistakes based on your experience and you wouldn't use that kind of reasonings (or at least not as easily as that) because they didn't work on you.

[BT]

Conq has actually switched to Mitsuki for reasons I'm not 100% sure I can figure out.

[Mitsuki]

... Raikaria is at L-1. I Think.

[NekoNekoRex]

If you were town when you did something that got you mislynched a bunch, and next game someone else does the same thing, shouldn't the first thought that comes to mind be "wait, that's a towntell, that reason never works as a scumtell!"?

[NekoNekoRex]

P Sure it's L-2 since both BT and Conq unvoted

[BT]

You know what that's enough, I don't think this "how dare he do something he did as town" is that bad because depending on the type of player you are you could logically infer that the way you played WAS bad and you were JUSTLY lynched, because it's actually likely to come from scum, and now he's using what he's learned.

Like, it's the same as the 'hypocrisy' scumtell which I've recently become against because, as this is a game of likelihoods, just because you're doing something bad while you're town doesn't mean it's wrong to lynch someone else for doing the exact same thing if statistically speaking what you're doing usually comes from scum.

blah blah blah fuck I hate myself

I think he's at L-2

btw I was obviously wrong earlier, deadline is at like 10 hours and it's terrible for me

[BT]

to elaborate I don't know if to call this wagon off because I'm just not feeling it anymore

what makes it worse is that I don't know who I'd lynch instead in that case

and even then there's the task of making the wagon happen

[BT]

Raikaria can you just actually give your reads instead of pushing those who pushed because I think most of the people who made this wagon happen are town, like I guess I'm waffling on Shadoweh but it's definitely not Conq.

Basically who would you lynch? Let's pretend we're powerlynching.

[NekoNekoRex]

You know what that's enough, I don't think this "how dare he do something he did as town" is that bad because depending on the type of player you are you could logically infer that the way you played WAS bad and you were JUSTLY lynched, because it's actually likely to come from scum, and now he's using what he's learned.

Like, it's the same as the 'hypocrisy' scumtell which I've recently become against because, as this is a game of likelihoods, just because you're doing something bad while you're town doesn't mean it's wrong to lynch someone else for doing the exact same thing if statistically speaking what you're doing usually comes from scum.

...Uh, actually, when you explain it like that, it makes more sense then what I was thinking. I guess I'm really misguided on that point, and the earlier hypocrisy point I made against Mitsuki earlier (that still doesn't clear those suspicions by any stretch, tho)

[Raikaria]

Well yeah, you shouldn't expect a claim to save you unless it's really creative or explains your behavior.
Where's the crumbs?
Can you come up with more on Conq or are you just reaction-voting? Surely he's done more scummy things throughout the game then simply push you.

He's not actually done that much else.

Although on second thinking, Shadoeh has LITERALLY done nothing but tunnel on me; but he is yet to comment on my claim.

And I'd be voting for anyone that was still pushing after someone claimed a Doctor without a counter-claim.

I've made my main case. I don't have any other points to argue. I've spoken about CF7 to death. Conq is pushing the Doc. Shadoweh has tunneled me all day.

[Raikaria]

Reads; I've already given.

Don't like CF7, as I have said multiple times.
Shadoweh is scum for tunnelling me all day and literally doing nothing else. Note Tunnelling has been brought up against Darkninja by others; but no-one has mentioned it in regards to Shadoweh.
Conq is pushing a claimed, un counter-claimed doc. Enough said there.
Darkninja isn't great either.

Everyone else is null, or leaning town, but I'm not gonna give out townreads because that just puts targets on people's backs.

[NekoNekoRex]

Make a better case

[Sky_Paladin]

Hmm. 

Why did Raikaria vote for Conq? 

If they were trying just to survive, they should have voted for CF7, or argued for a let's-not-lynch-on-D1-since-we're-likely-to-get-a-towny.  At least, that's what I would have done.  Possible exception:  If CF7 was scum, too, and Raikaria knew about it.  Even so, splitting the vote rather than letting them all go on one player would be a better strategy. 

So I think they made that decision based on a greater good ideal.  It's not the behavior of a scum.  So, I'm not going to for for Raikaria.  I totally lied about jumping on the biggest train.  Sorry about that. 

I'm also going to grey out CF7, which leaves Conqueror and Shadoweh. 

While I think it would be totally awesome if Conqueror turned out to be scum and I voted for them on day 1, I believe Conqs vote was entirely a luls-vote and I don't actually factor it into any serious decision making. 

However, Shadoweh is pushing for Raikaria's death over CF7, the most assured kill earlier in the day, when there was a good chance that CF7 would have been toast.  At that time, CF7 had made their alleged role public.  Even now that Raikaria made their alleged role public (and I am inclined to believe it is not entirely legit, but even I wouldn't give away all my cards at l-1), there's been no change to Shadoweh's behaviour.  However I am also dead tired and a little drunk and didn't re-read the thread.  So maybe I totally missed it. 

Therefore I'm going to ping Shadoweh as scum and that he was covering for CF7. 

I want to vote for CF7 since he's the closest to dead, with the intent of saving Rakaria since I think he's more-likely-town than Shadoweh. 

However, I'd prefer nobody die at all, since it's day 1 and I don't like this business at all.  So I'll split the middle and vote Shadoweh. 

##unvote
Vote Shadoweh

If there's still a phase by the time I wake up I'll look forward to the new situation.  Goodnight folks.

[NekoNekoRex]

You're on the chopping block, I think you can afford to give Conq/Shadoweh a reread and try and muster up a scumcase.

[BT]

Alive and L@dy
1. CF7
2. Shadoweh
3. Mitsuki/Vhaltz
4. Raikaria
5. NNR
6. ActionDan
7. Sky Paladin
8. Validon98
9. Serious Bananas
10. Conq
12. BT
11. darkninjaabc
13. Serela
14. Zakeri

okay Rai let's pretend this list is correct bar Shadoweh who we've lynched off the face of the earth already, what then?

First warning, don't use green  :smug:

[Sky_Paladin]

Goddamn I totally wrote that chunk of text before it was cool to vote for Shadoweh.  I'm always a step behind. 

[NekoNekoRex]

However, I'd prefer nobody die at all, since it's day 1 and I don't like this business at all.  So I'll split the middle and vote Shadoweh.

No Lynch tells us no information and denies town some control on who dies (since Scum will always kill a non-scum, and usually the strongest player alive), therefore a lynch is always preferable to no lynch.

[Mitsuki]

I still think Raikaria has chances of being scum, but alternatively I could vote Zakeri or Conqueror.

Why Conqueror?
When Raikaria claimed, Conqueror just assumed there'd be a SK and that Raikaria would be a scum doctor. It makes it look like he's the SK because he made such an association too quickly, I'm quite sure other people wouldn't have thought about the possibility of a scum doctor and a SK coexisting just like that.
There's also the fact that he didn't reveal that he thought there'd be a SK until now that it's convenient for him to lynch who he's voting. I don't think it was that obvious coming from the rules and the wincon that there'd be a SK either, but it'd be much more obvious from scum wincons that there'd be other roles with a kill. (This wouldn't mean that he's a SK, it just points out to him being scum)
On the other hand his conviction about Raikaria being scum and such doesn't feel fake right now. I'd have to think about whether it seemed fake at the beginning though, but that wouldn't mean he's not a SK, that'd just be a SK voting someone.

I'd actually lynch Conqueror over anyone else right now. I know he's voted me, but the reasoning still stands.

I admit that I should ISO other players.

[ActionDan]

|read|

[NekoNekoRex]

I'm reluctant to leave Raikaria alone just yet because there's still not much energy behind his fighting back, and most of his posts just come off as "you suck town", which still reads harder as scum caught with their hand in the jar then desperate town.

The claim itself is still dubious and he has no crumbs either.

I'll reread Shadoweh in case there is a big turnaround.

I think Conq is p. town myself, his pushing on Raikaria is a lot more based then Shadoweh's powerlynch machine.

[NekoNekoRex]

As a counter to Mitsuki and Raikaria's claim arguments, there's no doc cc because a doc cc on D1 would be exactly what a scum doctor wants, so it's a null tell at best.

[NekoNekoRex]

Mitsuki assuming Conq is an SK or has knowledge of more killing roles is also not great. This is role madness, so some degree of  non-scum killing roles (which you neglect to bring up also includes Vigilante, a town PR) isn't out of the question by any means.

[Mitsuki]

As a counter to Mitsuki and Raikaria's claim arguments

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.
I never said anything about doctor counterclaims!

[NekoNekoRex]

I mentioned you because your post looks like it puts faith in Raikaria's claim :/
Also I put something more relevant in the next post anyway

[Mitsuki]

I mentioned you because your post looks like it puts faith in Raikaria's claim :/
Also I put something more relevant in the next post anyway

I still think Raikaria has chances of being scum, but alternatively I could vote Zakeri or Conqueror.

<3

[BT]

Why Conqueror?
When Raikaria claimed, Conqueror just assumed there'd be a SK and that Raikaria would be a scum doctor. It makes it look like he's the SK because he made such an association too quickly, I'm quite sure other people wouldn't have thought about the possibility of a scum doctor and a SK coexisting just like that.
There's also the fact that he didn't reveal that he thought there'd be a SK until now that it's convenient for him to lynch who he's voting. I don't think it was that obvious coming from the rules and the wincon that there'd be a SK either, but it'd be much more obvious from scum wincons that there'd be other roles with a kill. (This wouldn't mean that he's a SK, it just points out to him being scum)

this is a horrible stretch, it's very possible for someone to raise the possibility of a SK when the ruleset outright tells you there'll be alternative wincons itg and the whole "didn't reveal until now" thing is literally nonsense

[BT]

like ftr I think Mitsuki is suspect except I'm kind of looking at this
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15735.msg1033365.html#msg1033365
and it makes me want to think the slot is town
horrible towntells inc.