Miscellaneous Questions Thread 3 - Ask Question, Receive Answer

[MewMewHeart]

Seriously, Reimu wouldn't stoop low to doing that so, this warrants a big fat D from me.

[Trim Sponsor]

Greetings Shrinemaideniers, I have a query for you.

<Tengukami> Hi, "queries", and other miscellaneous questions go in the Miscellaneous Questions thread. Please familiarize yourself with the site to understand where things are posted.

So like, we know that ZUN's the character designer when he's in charge of drawing in the games and such (Him being in charge of everything and stuff), but what about the characters who's debuts weren't drawn by him? like, were the Mischevious Fairies designed by Makoto Hirasaka? like-wise was Kasen designed by  Aya Azuma? etc?

If I'm not mistaken ZUN designs the new characters for Alphes to draw in the Tasofro games, cause he did that character model dealie for Suika, but is this the case for the comic characters as well?

[Tiamat]

There's ZUN art of Tenshi, though the wiki doesn't have it (I think) and I lost the link.  She's also Tasofro, though. I don't recall ever seeing any ZUN art of the comic characters off the top of my head.

[Drake]

There's Toyohime art too.

[cuc]

Short answer: yes, all characters are designed by ZUN.

Long answer: in those cases where a character will debut through another artist, he always had the new character's design concept already in mind, however, it would still take another artist to draw it, and the design often has to be simplified due to the practicality of the media (fighting games or manga), so he would spend a lot of time discussing with the artist, and the artist would iterate on their design until he was satisfied.

This is based on his discussion about the design process of Rinnosuke, the fighting game characters and Kosuzu. I'm sure he also said similar things about the fairies and Kasen somewhere.

So like, we know that ZUN's the character designer when he's in charge of drawing in the games and such (Him being in charge of everything and stuff), but what about the characters who's debuts weren't drawn by him? like, were the Mischevious Fairies designed by Makoto Hirasaka?

Actually the first three fairies manga was drawn by Matsukura Nemu.

For the fairies, the Fairy Wars endings are drawn by ZUN; at least two additional pieces of artwork can also be found on the web.

Sunny Milk, for second issue of Comp Ace - this was back in 2005, when the manga was still drawn by Matsukura:


Lunar Child, for 3rd anniversary of Comp Ace:

[Drake]

i unironically love zun's art, at least when it's like the toyohime and lunar child art here, and the various other hand-drawn works he's put out
even the marisa he spontaneously drew from nothing for the nhk interview was great

[ToyoRai]

Quick question on the artist topic: Who did the character portraits for Fairy Wars (and maybe any other art)?

[Drake]

Makoto Hirasaka. The question seems loaded in that you don't seem to be aware that Fairy Wars was made as a game about the manga events. If you had seen the manga before at all it would be pretty easy to recognize this.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_and_Bright_Nature_Deity

[Biakmon]

Does anyone know approximately which time period (e.g. 2075 - 2100?) the outside world in Touhou live in, as from the 13.5th official game?

[Fonzi]

Does anyone know approximately which time period (e.g. 2075 - 2100?) the outside world in Touhou live in, as from the 13.5th official game?

What do you mean? The setting of Touhou is set in the present day. HM takes place in spring 128, which is spring 2013 in the outside world. The stories revolving around Maribel and Renko take place "in the near future".

[cuc]

According to Sekibanki's profile, HM takes place in summer (of 2013). The religious war is heating up just as we speak.

[Fonzi]

Well, not that it matters much. HM was released on the 26th of May, which may or may not be considered summer.

[Arcorann]

According to Sekibanki's profile, HM takes place in summer (of 2013). The religious war is heating up just as we speak.

Strictly speaking Sekibanki's profile only states that HM takes place in the summer preceding DDC. The 2013 comes from elsewhere (Tasofro's decision to hardcode in the 2013 in the right-hand side of the newspaper articles; I am not aware of any other evidence, unless you have some?).

Interesting bit of trivia: every Touhou fighter takes place during summer.

[Fonzi]

Also, the only game in the Windows series that doesn't follow the chronological order so far is the Fairy Wars.

[cuc]

Strictly speaking Sekibanki's profile only states that HM takes place in the summer preceding DDC.

True, that's why I put "2013" in parentheses.

The 2013 comes from elsewhere (Tasofro's decision to hardcode in the 2013 in the right-hand side of the newspaper articles; I am not aware of any other evidence, unless you have some?).

I don't think the newspaper's 2013 is hardcoded?

No, there's no hard evidence that HM is set in 2013. Although placing HM and DDC in 2012 or 2014 would make the game timeline severely out of step with the SoPM/manga timeline (SoPM took place in winter of 2011/2012; the manga has been in sync with the seasons). It just doesn't seem like a sensible decision.

There is also arguably foreshadowing for DDC in FS Ch 8 (

Spoiler:

Reimu's gohan hit on Marisa's forehead a little too accurately

).

Well, not that it matters much. HM was released on the 26th of May, which may or may not be considered summer.

It actually sort of matters. Japan's early summer is marked by the monsoon season, which generally falls in June. WaHH Ch 17 takes place in monsoon season, and FS Ch 8 takes place after it (Clarste suggested it may even be caused by WaHH 17 -

Spoiler:

Reimu may have caught her cold while standing in the rain

). Since there's no clear sign of the "festival" that caused the religious war, the war has either not begun, or at most is only getting started at the time of FS Ch 8.

[Fonzi]

It actually sort of matters. In Japan's early summer, there is the monsoon season with continuous rainfall, generally in June. WaHH Ch 17 takes place in monsoon season, and FS Ch 8 takes place after it (Clarste suggested it may even be caused by WaHH 17 - Reimu may have caught her cold when standing in the rain). Since there's no clear sign of the "festival" that caused the religious war, the war has either not begun, or at most is only getting started at the time of FS Ch 8.

In terms of answering Biakmon's question, it doesn't matter at all. Touhou takes place synchronously with the present of the outside world. Not in the past, not in the future.

[cuc]

My point is, only the slice-of-life stories can afford to sync up the real world time of their release and in-universe time to the season. Larger releases, i.e. the Bougetsushou project, artbooks and games, by necessity of their creative process, cannot sync up this closely.

[Fonzi]

Now I've got one question for you. It involves Kaguya and a speculation whether or not it is her true name. As we know from the original folktale, Taketori Monogatari, it was the old bamboo cutter and his wife who have given her the name Kaguya after finding her and taking her in. But what of her real parents? What name had they given to her? It would be highly unlikely for the old couple of humans in the story to give her the same name as was given to her by her biological Lunarian parents. SSiB further elaborates that Eirin's real name is not Eirin, it's simply a substitute so that the impure tongues of Earthlings would even be able to pronounce it correctly. If that's the case with all Lunarians in the series, then it's quite probable that Kaguya is not Kaguya's real name.
Then we still have Sakuya and Yukari whose real names are left to our imagination. It wouldn't surprise me that much if Kaguya was in the same club.

[Tiamat]

I guess one could go and check how often Eirin refers to Kaguya as Kaguya (and for curiosity, how often does Kaguya refer to Eirin as Eirin?).  I wouldn't be too surprised if Eirin's only ever referred to her as "the princess", but it's been a long time since I've read through official works with Eirin and Kaguya.

[Biakmon]

I was confused with the time setting of the outside world due to Maribel and Renko but thanks for the clarification.

I am reading Touhou SoPm for quite sometime but something bother me.
- What do they mean when they say that it is a official touhou "fanbook"?
- Just to make sure, is it an official book created/written by ZUN?

- Can normal youkai (not spiritual type like ghost) e.g Tengu, Kappa and etc. be kill by physical means (like beheading someone with a weapon...) "in Gensokyo"?
- If yes, what do you think about youkai still living in the outside world?

I understand basically when people stop believe in there existence they weaken and then eventual disappear but is that all.
What if a human of the outside world attack a youkai (human in appearance) still living in that world using physical means (e.g guns or knife...)?

[Fonzi]

- What do they mean when they say that it is a official touhou "fanbook"?

I suppose it means "a book written for Touhou fans", not by the fans, but that's just my speculation. Yes, the book IS written by ZUN/Akyuu.

- What do they mean when they say that it is a official touhou "fanbook"?

It depends on the type of youkai. In ZUN's emails http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN/ZUN%27s_E-mails, he explains that they can recover even from severe injuries, but can be killed by a spiritual attack.
An entry in PMiSS about youkai says:

"*Youkai have stronger bodies than humans, so even if they're split into five parts, they heal right away. "

Spiritual attacks can be fatal to them, but no source claims that a youkai can be killed by a physical attack. Perhaps they can, but it's definitely harder than by using magic/faith/charms etc.

As for youkai living in the outside world, well we only got hints that such youkai still exist. Mamizou was doing pretty well in the outside world until she got "an invite" from Nue. Whether she got stronger when she arrived in Gensokyo is unknown.

[SatorKoi57]

I'm curious  :
Am I the only one who thought Kosuzu was PC98 character?

[Sagus]

I'm curious  :
Am I the only one who thought Kosuzu was PC98 character?

Where did you get the idea?

[Drake]

Now I've got one question for you. It involves Kaguya and a speculation whether or not it is her true name.

It isn't just that, I've actually mentioned before that the name Houraisan is nonsensical for a Lunarian princess to have, and is likely a name she took on or was given to her.

Where did you get the idea?

by not being familiar with the pc98 games nor scrollery, i assume

I understand basically when people stop believe in there existence they weaken and then eventual disappear but is that all.
What if a human of the outside world attack a youkai (human in appearance) still living in that world using physical means (e.g guns or knife...)?

This is sort of a question that doesn't need to be posed, or rather can't be posed. While it's clear that some youkai do live in the outside world still, you have to consider that nobody really knows this. It's unfalsifiable and unconfirmable. If a "youkai" posing as human would get shot, they would die: and then obviously they weren't really a youkai in the first place. The youkai exist only where nobody can tell they exist. The tanuki get away with this very easily because they have the excuse of shapeshifting, so you could easily say that there are many tanuki living naturally among the humans. But you'd never be able to find one. So there is no question of "what if a youkai got shot"; if you could examine something to that extent, it wouldn't be a youkai.

[cuc]

This is sort of a question that doesn't need to be posed, or rather can't be posed. While it's clear that some youkai do live in the outside world still, you have to consider that nobody really knows this. It's unfalsifiable and unconfirmable. If a "youkai" posing as human would get shot, they would die: and then obviously they weren't really a youkai in the first place. The youkai exist only where nobody can tell they exist. The tanuki get away with this very easily because they have the excuse of shapeshifting, so you could easily say that there are many tanuki living naturally among the humans. But you'd never be able to find one. So there is no question of "what if a youkai got shot"; if you could examine something to that extent, it wouldn't be a youkai.

That's a good general purpose answer, applicable to a lot of "close examination" questions.

However, regarding the original question, stories of youkai being hurt while in human guise already exist, and are still being written by modern writers.

To overgeneralize it, what may kill a human often won't kill a youkai. They may disappear in a flash, or expose themselves in some even more dramatic way; more tactful youkai may fake death, or drop a fake human shell. I can even imagine a particularly tough but insensitive youkai not realizing it has a bullet in its chest for some time.

Because the original question was asking about youkai in the modern world, the more dramatic kinds of exit that create many witnesses would be unlikely - they'll probably only have the power to escape in less flashy manners, enough to go down in record as unexplained mysteries, but not much else. Or they've already turned fully human, and die as humans.

[Arcorann]

True, that's why I put "2013" in parentheses. I don't think the newspaper's 2013 is hardcoded?

The top one isn't but the right-hand one is. You can see clearly if you change the system time to a different year e.g. 1987, the 1987 is on top of a 2013.

Incidentally, you mentioned some time ago that DDC was set in autumn because ZUN put maple leaves in the charging animation. Were there any other reasons for this or is this the only hint as to what season DDC was set in?

[Clarste]

Re: Kaguya's name: There's a brief scene in SSiB where the new Reisen talks to Eirin and Eirin's "name" is written as a bunch of unintelligible scribbles. The impression I got from that was that she has a "true name" that they're hiding from us for whatever reason. Anyway, this makes it seem fairly likely to me that Kaguya is also using an alias.

[ToyoRai]

Of course, now I wonder why Reisen still kept her real name after she left the Moon. Is the name Reisen "earthling" enough to them so that Eirin just needed to give her a surname and people just think she might be an Earth Rabbit youkai.

[Biakmon]

Can someone explain (summaries) what happen in chapter 5 of CoLA at the end?

Did Sakuya restore the broken cup to it's original state or what and if so how did she do it?
That cup was already broken, before her arrival in the store.

[cuc]

Eirin gave Reisen the kanji (鈴仙) to write her name with, as well as a surname Udongein. That's how they made her name to appear more earth-like.

For the record, Eirin and Kaguya just call each other "Kaguya" and "Eirin".

Re: Kaguya's name: There's a brief scene in SSiB where the new Reisen talks to Eirin and Eirin's "name" is written as a bunch of unintelligible scribbles. The impression I got from that was that she has a "true name" that they're hiding from us for whatever reason. Anyway, this makes it seem fairly likely to me that Kaguya is also using an alias.

In the original text, it's written as 八意??. It... was an extremely clumsy reveal without proper setup.

Incidentally, you mentioned some time ago that DDC was set in autumn because ZUN put maple leaves in the charging animation. Were there any other reasons for this or is this the only hint as to what season DDC was set in?

DDC has plenty of seasonal symbols.

Falling maple leaves can be seen in several occasions during the story, from in-universe to "now loading" and music room.

The entire Stage 3 is a callback to IN; the full moon indicates that DDC, just as IN, took place during the harvest moon festival (the full moon of middle autumn).

Kagerou's dress is based on Hanafuda's "Pampas Grass and the Full Moon" card, an autumn card.

I'm now hijacking the topic to do an update of my "eight point star" symbol observation.

It's the same symbol that rotates on PC when you focus. It's also the background of ESoD difficulty selection screen. Another special appearance of the symbol is in IN. When a bosss charges up for a special attack in IN, the special effect is many "snowflake" symbols gathering on the character.

SaBND also referenced Yukari's symbol, when she was getting into a battle position to test the fairies' strength.

My personal theory is, this is the symbol of spell card rules.

In addition to the above, the symbol also appears:

In PCB, while the Stage 1-4 characters explode into snowflakes, their charge-up effects are not snowflakes, but this symbol, same as the IN characters.

(BTW, in IN, Mystia and Keine also share Wriggle's "blue blinking" effect, but only in their first boss spell cards.)

In PCB, when your bomb bullets hit an enemy, the symbol will "zoom in" on the enemy. This may indicate it's a crosshairs symbol. So when you focus, crosshairs appear on your hitbox?

In PoFV, the EX attacks are transported to the opponent's by this symbol.

In Fairy Wars, it's in the center of the difficulty selection screen.