Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, Pesco! You are Saeko Busujima, Town Swordswoman.
After carrying your little group through the zombie apocalypse, you're tired of all the fighting and you just want to keep things simple.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
[10:42:12 ] Yukkii supported me! He agrees that Eclair's confirm feels funny. Is he trying too hard to fit in?...what confirm? Eclair -hasn't- confirmed yet.
##Vote: Eclair Martinozzi
##UnvoteOh, so that's the way it is?? ...Not like a second-rate swordfighter such as yourself would know a good deal. Still, battles like these are pretty tiring to fight alone. I'll be around if you change your mind!
##Vote: Farina
I have already paid my flesh and blood for all eternity, a price that you cannot ever hope to receive. I don't need your help.
[8:42:12 ] Yukkii and I talked about a very important issue and decided to tell the others. Lots of people who DON'T UNDERSTAND how Yukkii and I are destined to be together are suspicious of everything I do! So when they go investigating Yuno shows up as Anti-town no matter what they're looking for. Yukkii says it's like I'm a miller of all trades! Yukkii thinks of the best names.Hey there! Pink-haired lady! Your claim sounds interesting, but it's pretty vague. Now, I don't know what investigative classes the town has in service here, but does this directly give incriminating results to every sort of investigative role in the game, or does it just tell any investigators that you're anti-town?
[8:42:12 ] Yukkii and I talked about a very important issue and decided to tell the others. Lots of people who DON'T UNDERSTAND how Yukkii and I are destined to be together are suspicious of everything I do! So when they go investigating Yuno shows up as Anti-town no matter what they're looking for. Yukkii says it's like I'm a miller of all trades! Yukkii thinks of the best names.
Even your new vote doesn't have any 'trying too hard to fit in.'What is this, it doesn't even make sense. Trying too hard to fit in would be implying the person is not-town, anyway.
Eclair, basically just jumping in with a Yuno vote. It may just be me, but what did you mean by the new vote not having any "trying too hard to fit in"? This is worded funny, and I really like knowing people's thought processes so clarification would be appreciated. Going along the same reasoning, can you explain why a miller is a compulsory vote? Do you not believe it or would rather get rid of all millers because of the WIFOM or what?
[10:42:12 ] Yukkii supported me! He agrees that Eclair's confirm feels funny. Is he trying too hard to fit in?
./confirm
My claim is 50% scummy 50% anti-townie.
Farina shouldn't rolefishHey, did you really read my question? The good guys benifit from an answer to it, but the reds certainly don't. No need to be so shallow!
Miller claim means nothing, it's just making herself a target later on
Maka: Trying too hard
The Eclair wagon itself is the sort of minimum-wage garbage I'd expect from this point in the battle. Well, whatever! I have standards! Eclair's post looked to be early-chapter silliness, I don't think she deserved a triangle attack of votes over that.
But I guess I should not let my feelings get the better of me. In any case, I more or less echo the above posters on Tenshi (that her hedonistic laziness is infuriating), and BlackRose and Meiya (for standing back and laughing at the mistakes of others). I also question as to why Eclair would rather go for what amounts to a useless vote rather than Meiya, whom she acknowledges as bandwagon hopping.
my inattentiveness caused me to fail to realize that she had already accumulated three votes by the time that I had added my own to her wagon.
As mentioned before, the nature of her statement in this post is highly questionable to myself.
I find this rapid formation of "bandwagons", as you call them, to be highly suspect.I find this funny when you say it right after you hopped on a bandwagon yourself!
Hey there! Pink-haired lady! Your claim sounds interesting, but it's pretty vague. Now, I don't know what investigative classes the town has in service here, but does this directly give incriminating results to every sort of investigative role in the game, or does it just tell any investigators that you're anti-town?[12:57:28] Yukkii was puzzled why Farina thought our claim was vague. He knows we can't use exact wording, so he suggested we just say it's closer to the first one. If there's some way Yuno can look guilty to any role, it will happen. As long as I'm with Yukki it doesn't matter if everyone else thinks I'm guilty. Yukkii is against anyone claiming something about their role besides being a miller. If you show up guilty to something Irene mention that and only that. Otherwise shoosh.
How exactly does your question benefit town and not scum again?This barely counts as posting. More please.
Hey you, celestial lady! So... You have a lot of reasons to scold Maka, but you see, that's not the kind of stuff you vote people over, is it? Maka's pretty silly, but she did take and explain her stances, so it wasn't just pro-town fluff.
Within this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg804534.html#msg804534) miss Farena states that she suspects miss Hinanawi of attempting to mislynch miss Alburn, yet does not press this point. If I may ask another question; Why? As for why I joined the wagon on miss Martinozzi, as stated before, that was due entirely to my own carelessness and inability to realize that there had been three votes preceding mine.Since I can't attack two enemies with my vote in one allied phase, I tossed the two voting possibilities back and forth and decided you were more likely to be an enemy for an early wagon jump which I thought showed a lack of independent thinking, and also for having 0 luck. I didn't agree with Tenshi's vote, but hey, it'd be totally reasonable for a townie to make if they were just really irritated with Maka or something. Tenshi's response would've affected my read on her a lot, so I didn't put her in front of you when picking my target, and as it turns out, she cleaned up just fine. So... I still disagree with her Maka vote, but now I can understand it.
I have been interrupted whilst making my post by this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg804594.html#msg804594) and I wish to ask a question in regards to it. Miss Farena, you ask why "parroting" is behaviour that ill-befits town, yet you have placed your vote upon me for the same reason. Is this not contradictory?Your jump on Eclair made me think you were agreeing with a new wagon without putting thought into why Eclair was worth voting, which isn't parroting so much as letting others think for you like a creepy morph hivemind. I don't think Sayaka having the same opinions as others is indicative of her being red-colored like Maka implied, since it was clear what made her think what she thought, even if others thought it first.
I know this is all fun and exciting, but pushing people to post because there's four or five hours of silence in ED1? Don't give me your "get in here" nonsense, we celestials lead busy lives. I have family to attend to and rituals to performand parties to attend! The path to enlightenment isn't so easy that I can spend every waking moment gracing you with my presence. Maybe someday, if you work hard enough for it, you'll follow the path of enlightenment to Heaven, but empty town-posturing about deadlines and activity and 'scum love silence we must galvanize into action' aren't going to start you on that road, especially during ED1. Post #32 is way too early for walls, too.
The large post had some opinions in it, I get that, but they're ED1 opinions, and scum can form ED1 opinions too, so guess how much weight I put in them overall. (Also go read Busy's #37.) More important to me was the pointless chaff. Complaining about activity twice in the span of four hours of presence (and then worrying over a "coherent lynch at the end of the day" when there's still about 60 hours to go) is cluttering up the thread. Period. So is prodding "lurkers" less than 24 hours into the game. One faction is hindered by a cluttered-up thread, one faction benefits from a cluttered-up thread. Guess which faction is which?
I didn't see anything more worthy of my vote at the time, so there it went. Stayed. Whatever.
Hopefully this clears up for the rest of you why the vote was laid down, since people seem to think I voted because Albarn talked about anything or something? I don't really get the nature of most of the rest of the accusations against me, since I thought I made it pretty clear in my voting post which part of Albarn's combo I was focusing on.
Miss Hinanawi, if I am understanding correctly, your current vote is placed on somebody that you believe to be putting their best efforts into this game solely for that reason? Do you have any other reasoning for voting for miss Alburn?
My claim is 50% scummy 50% anti-townie.ಠ_ಠ ##Vote: Irene
So, Eclair, you said that you had a personal policy of "Anyone who claims equal parts anti-Town and Scum is Scum to me", right? I can buy that! But I have a bit more trouble buying that your vote on Irene was ever valid if you're just going to otherwise ignore her completely now that you're off doing business on a different wagon. Hey, were you just voting her while you waited for a good target to pop up? You don't ordinarily brush off people who are Scum to you like that if you're bent on fighting them and reaping the benefits! How little are you getting paid if you don't even have the strength to connect your opinions? Your jump has even less monetary value than Meiya's!!
Anyone who seriously proposes Irene is scummy for that reason is being scummier then Irene is. If you explain why it's actually scummy, I can almost guarantee that I'll be able rip your logic to shreds because it's wrong.
Further on the topic of Eclair, some things were pointed out to me by my partner, with a few parenthesis comments by myself; her explanation of her Yuno vote was good enough for an ED1 case, but letting it fall to jump on a supposed ?scum claim? (Irene) looks odd to me.(And it's even weaker when you consider that interpreting what Irene said as a scum claim is terrible, if you really think about it.) But more important is that she let this also fall to vote Meiya. I may be mistaken but it looks like a ?not me over me? thing to me; her case is just some disjointed odd points, and isn't that much stronger than her Yuno case, either.[/quote]
So how do you explain yourself, Eclair?
Miss Hinanawi, if I am understanding correctly, your current vote is placed on somebody that you believe to be putting their best efforts into this game solely for that reason? Do you have any other reasoning for voting for miss Alburn?This isn't enough reason to vote Tenshi over Farina for me and I want her to make that abundantly clear.
This is because I believe that, depending on how miss Farena answers, she can be redeemed in contrast to miss Hinanawi who has done little but throw her vote wildly with very weak reasoning. Having said that, I would like to direct your attention to miss Hinanawi once more and point out that she has failed to answer my question in regards to her reasons for voting miss Alburn. Miss Hinanawi, a sizeable portion of your vote on me stems from myself being inattentive, does it not? Sure you would have noticed that the person you have voted for had a question for you. Why did you refuse to answer?And I will keep my vote on Meiya, because this paragraph alone makes me want to blast her out of the war! 'Don't look at me look at Tenshi' followed by deflection. She isn't excusing her own behavior, she's trying to say Tenshi is worse than she is. The most hypocritical parts of this were her earlier bandwagon jump and then having the gall to complain Tenshi 'threw her vote wildly' and ignoring my question on why me having a bandwagon would somehow make me not vote-worthy. Her real beef with Tenshi didn't even surface until after she was voted!
I'm putting my vote where it has more use: if multiple people don't think someone claiming their role is equal parts anti-Town and Scum is valid enough reason to lynch her, I'd be an idiot to let my vote sit there uselessly. Irina hasn't posted enough to indicate one way or the other, and I for one do not intend to fruitlessly keep my vote on her or lurk out until she's posted enough. No true knight would pay attention to a possible saboteur when a more clear one is dancing in the open!So... how does this excuse just leaving Irene alone? It's not pro-town to just ignore the player you think is an enemy. Well, I guess you have low movement on account of being a Knight, but if you think she's scummy, you still should be trying to get out there and show her a good fight! If her post was lackluster, why aren't you pressing her for more in her lackluster areas? That's like letting a chance to get a raise slip through your fingers. Enemies are less likely to mess up if nobody's attacking them.
Irene's first real post is nothing but a wall of reads, at this point in the game entirely useless. But I'd be a fool to press someone's ineptness as some sign that they are scum. It is their own claim to be anti-Town and Scummy (as far as role is concerned) in equal parts that I would cry for her death, but if people find that a useless venture to vote I'm powerless.
Uesugi, what about my Tenshi vote is 'indiscernable' to you? Meiya had put forward cases which exceeded the scope of my accusations back then, which I had agreed with no less, rendering my earlier vote for her invalid.
Tenshi spends far more words in defending her now-defunct case on Maka than playing the game, to the point where she does not even comment on the movements regarding the main wagons and the wagons involved, instead going after Meiya for what she feels are wrongful accusations against her
and Shana for not posting (token comment, strange in that she even avoids talking about BlackRose who said more or less nothing to).
instead going after Meiya for what she feels are wrongful accusations against her (localized scumhunting) and Shana for not posting (token comment, strange in that she even avoids talking about BlackRose who said more or less nothing to)Also what changed between your two posts that made it ok for farina to go after me and black rose? You seem to want to lead other people into your targets rather then yourself.
Problem - how is Tenshi "not commenting" on the "main wagons" when Meiya is/was one of, if not the, main wagon at the time? She had a vote on Meiya at the time of your post.
Everything's changed now. It's almost like entering a witch's barrier, and I smell scum within this labyrinth of words. Tenshi spends far more words in defending her now-defunct case on Maka than playing the game, to the point where she does not even comment on the movements regarding the main wagons and the wagons involved, instead going after Meiya for what she feels are wrongful accusations against her (localized scumhunting) and Shana for not posting (token comment, strange in that she even avoids talking about BlackRose who said more or less nothing to). I'm not feeling too well about her exclusions and her dancing around the main issues.
I also think Yuno is looking too peachy in her evaluations of others; the only real pressure she seems to be giving is on BlackRose, which is an easy target by any means. Seems like a sideliner, befitting of her wayward morals.
@Farina: It is indeed fine to go attack the likes of Shana and BlackRose, but her post seems to pat Tenshi on the back for having a silly case rather than for doing something scummy. I guess it comes down to her not playing an active part in the pressure against others and being content with going after the easy ones which casts ill dread upon me, despite the abundance of content to pick out (unlike my case before). Also, with Meiya's original two-pronged attacks against you and Tenshi (the latter of which I agree with), Tenshi's OMGUS-like (in my opinion) Meiya vote, and Eclair's pressure on Meiya, the battlefield has really changed. Harping on what my priorities were before these events beyond my explanation above amounts to nothing but a foolish attachment to the past, which has done me in many times. But I'm stronger now.
For Eclair, are you implying that Farina and Meiya are somehow scumbuddies? I understand the 'posturing' point but I can't seem to put it in the context of why it is scummy unless the above condition is fulfilled.
In regards to the "mutliple misconceptions" thing, that was said in regard to multiple people missing the reasons for my vote. Mitsurugi continuing to posit incorrect reasons for my vote after I explained it again is, as far as I'm concerned, either inattentiveness or intentional misrepresentation, both of which are scummy.
Hellooo again everyone! ^-^Actually this wagon was three strong by this point. Blackrose isn't posting anywhere either. In my opinion you changed a good vote to go after someone uninteresting before the person you'd voted had been called upon to make a real opinion known. Going after someone for not following up on stuff when they haven't made another post is silly. Yukkii and I are better at finding the good in people then abject scuminess. You aren't going to get a huge list of scum reads. The active posters all look pretty town, so all this town fighting means scum can hang back, therefore lurking is more pro-scum than usual. It also means in my opinion, that you should make a few less text walls and just punish the people who aren't contributing.
##Unvote
BlackRose isn't going anywhere and there are more constructive places for me to put my vote.
I have no interest in the Martinozzi wagon as I have no immediate problem with her votes or other opinions. I am disappointed in Farina for the follow-up response (how is Martinozzi supposed to further pressure someone that flat-out isn't here?), especially given Farina knows all too well the limits of only having one vote. I am only disappointed and not anything worse because I, like (I imagine) many others, am otherwise happy with her game so far.Well, when Eclair switched to the Meiya wagon, Irene had already made the post that Eclair thought was showed "ineptness", so it couldn't really be said that Irene "flat-out wasn't there", could it? If she thought Irene's post was useless like she said, she could have poked Irene for elaborations and more content to help acheive a read. Completely ignoring Irene when switching the vote made her look non-commital and gave the impression her Irene vote was a votepark for weak policy reasons, much like her Yuno vote. I don't think this looks like a matter of Eclair not being able to vote two players at once, it comes off more as disconnect, like she doesn't care about reading players aside from her main case.
@Farina: It is indeed fine to go attack the likes of Shana and BlackRose, but her post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg804649.html#msg804649) seems to pat Tenshi on the back for having a silly case rather than for doing something scummy. I guess it comes down to her not playing an active part in the pressure against others and being content with going after the easy ones which casts ill dread upon me, despite the abundance of content to pick out (unlike my case before).Ha. Really? 'cause if your post had been made right before Yuno's instead of when you initially posted it, the only other posts of note to analyze would be Meiya's #52, Kenshin's first post, Maka's #55 and Eclair's #56 - none of which notably impacted your opinions when you switched to Tenshi. If there was an "abundance of content to pick out" when Yuno posted, then the situation wasn't much different from when you first voted Meiya. In fact, the only major change would have been that if your post where you switched to Tenshi is to be believed, your Meiya case would have been invalid.
I must apologize once more to miss Hinanawi for the grave transgression I have made in not realizing that one of the major qualms I had in regards to her behaviours had, in fact, already been addressed.Meiya! What kind of woman are you if you don't even have a solid case this far into the day? I'm gonna second Yuno that you seem totally confused and incapable; that was the impression I was getting when I ditched your wagon. You had lots of time to review the thread, how're you gonna get an income if you're not hunting your targets? If you take issue with Eclair, why're you not willing to put what little money you've earned where your mouth is and vote her? This isn't an ordinary battlefield, so you can't do work and slay your enemies without voting them!
##Unvote
May I say that I find miss Martinozzi's comments within this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg804894.html#msg804894) to be rather unexemplary? In regards to the point that I was, in your words, "posturing about how scummy Farina is, then goes off and votes someone she's questioning." I feel that this is a grave misrepresentation of the events that actually transpired.Meiya, the paragraph you presented looks like an excellent case on Eclair. Why did you blank unvote and leave?
Regarding Eclair's and Tenshi's reasoning for voting Meiya, I regard both their explanations as either scummy or misguided. While I suppose logical mistakes in reasoning counts as a relatively popular scumread, I don't think they have addressed the possibility that townies could occasionally overlook something in their construction of cases (personal experience would tell me that I have made these mistakes before), or that scum could care about which townie they want lynched as much as other townies (personal experience counts as well). Tenshi's vision of a playerbase in this meta consisting only of smart and conscientious heroes and dumb villains strikes me as hopelessly naive to the point of disbelief even to a person such as me, especially when she is supposedly a 1000 year-old celestial.This applies equally to your persual of Tenshi. You admit that she could be misguided, you haven't addressed that she could have overlooked something in the construction of her case, and she's hopelessly naive. These are reasons she is confused town.
I suppose murderers will stay as murderers. First, Yuno's reasons for voting me here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg805110.html#msg805110) could easily apply to Tenshi herself as well; she has also been 'taking only one suspect and riding her for not being capable of answering her correctly'.No. Tenshi has been trying to be as forthright as possible explaining every detail of what she's doing. There is no reason that could be applicable to voting her because she is town.
Conversely, her thinking that Tenshi is town 'due to focusing on one suspect' could easily apply to me as well, which strikes me as hypocritical.That's weird because that's not why I said I think Tenshi is town.
There's also the issue where she says that she thinks that the wagon against Meiya is misguided, but does not seem to even tangentially explore the votes behind it (e.g Tenshi)Meiya Mitsurugi: (3) Farina, Quicksword Irene, Sayaka Miki
first feels fake.What the hell does that even mean? Miller claim means absolutely nothing, it doesn't excuse them from being scummy and it only makes them a target for standing out. That is all to get from a miller claim.
the second admonishes without giving any insight into what Rose thinks of Maka's alignment.Because I'm supposed to suddenly get a clear cut decision on if someone is town/scum based on their first post. Oh right, because everyone needs to know how you think of people every single moment? No, filling a post with opinions is just noise. Which means
and BlackRose and Meiya (for standing back and laughing at the mistakes of others)Okay, what? The. Hell. This is just ridiculous. This is overblowing nothing and making it look like something huge and obvious. Basically like Fox News. The only thing I like is the Eclair point but you still earn a FoS Sayaka
A horrendously rendered Post by Post Analysis.What did I say about text walls? I can't tell who you're talking about unless I go to every single post you name. Most of the comments don't explain anything. Why is 43 alright? Why is 44 good posting? Why is 45 such a big deal when it's a one line question by Shana asking why a question benefits town? 46 is restating what everyone has said to death, that Maka made alot about nothing, along with saying asking why someone you're voting is scum is a pointless question.
Filling a post with statements like 'trying too hard' which don't give an opinion either way is far worse then what you consider noise. You're FoS'ing someone for the main reason everyone who looked at your post thinks you're scummy. You're going to need more fingers.Quotethe second admonishes without giving any insight into what Rose thinks of Maka's alignment.Because I'm supposed to suddenly get a clear cut decision on if someone is town/scum based on their first post. Oh right, because everyone needs to know how you think of people every single moment? No, filling a post with opinions is just noise. Which means
FoS: Irene
53: I just realized. Why are people lumping me together with the rest of the Eclair voters considering my reason for voting is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM EVERYONE ELSE. I also take notice how nobody has said exactly how I'm scummy >:|What was your reasoning again? Do you still think it was valid? Do you still think Eclair is scummy?
57: This post looks lazy and doesn't accomplish much. Is Maka a scum read? To put it quite simply: No. If she were, I would have said something. Trying to hard meant to slow down, as trying too hard can be counterproductive. FoS YunoBut you did say something. And we had to take that tiny morsel of information and assume things from it because you were on the fucking moon breeding those hideous fake chocobo things instead of talking about your reads in the mafia.
70: ಠ_ಠSo is Shana scummy, did you run out of fingers again, is three FoS's the limit now?
Tenshi not attacking Meiya over Meiya's Eclair vote is a rubbish point when it doesn't affect the quality of Tenshi's case and Eclair's vote on Meiya was similiar.
This applies equally to your persual of Tenshi. You admit that she could be misguided, you haven't addressed that she could have overlooked something in the construction of her case, and she's hopelessly naive. These are reasons she is confused town.
Your unvote of her is simply you realizing the wagon isn't going anywhere.
No. Tenshi has been trying to be as forthright as possible explaining every detail of what she's doing. There is no reason that could be applicable to voting her because she is town.
In regards to the point that I was, in your words, "posturing about how scummy Farina is, then goes off and votes someone she's questioning." I feel that this is a grave misrepresentation of the events that actually transpired.
Miss Hinanawi, if I am understanding correctly, your current vote is placed on somebody that you believe to be putting their best efforts into this game solely for that reason? Do you have any other reasoning for voting for miss Alburn?
There is also the following audacious statement from miss Martinozzi: "She isn't excusing her own behavior,". I do not know where your values lie, but I take full responsibility for my actions and therefore will not do more than provide an explanation so that others may make their own judgements about my behaviour. If others believe that I have taken measures that appear not to be aimed towards achieving the town's win condition, so be it. That is their decision to make, not mine.
This is because I believe that, depending on how miss Farena answers, she can be redeemed in contrast to miss Hinanawi who has done little but throw her vote wildly with very weak reasoning. Having said that, I would like to direct your attention to miss Hinanawi once more and point out that she has failed to answer my question in regards to her reasons for voting miss Alburn.
As for why I would not have placed my vote upon you if I had noticed that there were more votes than I had originally anticipated on you, it is because I believed that miss Alburn and miss Busy had made valid arguments which I wished to display my support towards. As stated before, I had not noticed that miss Rose had already performed this action and made my own to be redundant. How exactly does this behaviour demonstrate my unwillingness to work towards the town win condition?
Firstly, I must ask how miss Martinozzi's thoughts on both miss Gasai and miss Irene have changed. Miss Martinozzi first voted for miss Gasai within this post due to miss Gasai's miller claim. The fact that miss Gasai has claimed to be a miller has not changed. Does this mean that your attitude towards miss Gasai has also failed to change? The same can be said of miss Irene who has, from miss Martinozzi's perspective, claimed to be aligned with anti-town forces in this post. There have been no actions to change this fact so this leaves me to wonder why miss Martinozzi would not be voting for one that she believes to have outright claimed to be aligned with forces that work against the town. Miss Martinozzi claims in this post that she wishes not to leave her vote in a place that will serve no purpose however if miss Martinozzi truly believed miss Irene to be aligned with those that are not working towards town's win condition then would the vote not be serving a purpose simply by being upon miss Gasai? I ask why miss Martinozzi was so quick to give up on her vote on miss Gasai.
She sounds confused and people are attacking her for confusion rather then scumminess.
Your second paragraph is just saying that Eclair is suspicious for not pushing policy lynches when she seems to believe in them. The way you put it is dragging one sentence over way too many sentences. It's also more of a null-tell. Try to explain the misrepping you think she did instead of wondering why she's not pushing policy lynches that no one else is supporting.
@Eclair: You keep pushing the single reason of "she says this and then does that" as your main case for a very long time, and it is becoming stale.
Do you have any other reasons for tunneling a Meiya so heavily?
For having that as your main case and nothing new on that topic seems more like she is town that you're trying to dig dirt on.
EBWOP: Actually, "misinterpreted" may be the wrong word to use in the context of Martinozzi. Maybe "Parts-Of-Our-Posts-Get-Ignored-For-No-Good-Reason Anonymous" would be better. I get the feeling from Kanzaki's opinions on Martinozzi that Kanzaki hasn't actually read Martinozzi's posts at all (see me referencing the bottom of #73) and Mitsurugi asks a few questions of Martinozzi that I was able to answer in my head just from either basic Mafia theory knowledge or my recollections of Martinozzi's previous explanations.
If you think that the wagon on Meiya is misguided, then why have you not explored the votes behind the current wagon on her (e.g Eclair, Tenshi) and related reasoning?I have looked at them. I wish Irene would post more, but her reaction to my claim still strikes me as town. I think that scum would be less likely to defend a town claim with their own as well as limiting their fake claim options further down the line. So I have not found her worth pursuing. Tenshi looks townie because her scumhunting looks genuine and I think she's been asking good question and I can follow her flow of logic easily. Eclair is getting a pass because the wagon on her is one of the worst things I have ever seen. I agree with Farina that at the time she was really the only one with any reasoning (since then Meiya has joined it, and I don't have a problem with her vote either). I don't see how I could look at this wagon anymore closely than I have.
Why is Eclair scummy merely for the snipes and not her actual vote?Are you really asking me this? :| Yes, I didn't explicitly state that I didn't like her vote. I thought that saying Meiya was town made that obvious. When I decided that the active people looked really town I started looking at the people lurking and the people posting enough to not be called out for lurking, but still aren't doing anything interesting. Eclair fit the latter category, which is the main reason I find her scummy. I don't think voting someone I think is town is enough to declare someone scum, since town can do that too, so I focused on the other reasons. Why is this scummy?
How does playing my accusation against Tenshi back at me in cancrizan and telling me that she may or may not be misguided explain your town read on her?I have no idea what you're asking here. I explained why Tenshi is town above. If you're referring to the patting on the head thing, yes, that's exactly what I was doing. I was patting her on the head for being a silly townie making a silly vote.
I currently have a townread on herThen why are you chiding me for having a town read on her? Seriously, the entire thing with Tenshi just feels like "why me." You seem to be interpreting "focusing on her suspect" as "tunneling" or something. Yes, Tenshi hasn't had that many suspects. I'm okay with that. She's pursuing her main one in a way I find townie (even if I think it's misguided) and she comments on all the other wagons and a lot of other people as well. I know exactly where she stands on these wagons. I don't feel the same way about you. That is why you are scummy.
Omg Conq's Internet is Dying Votecount
Eclair Martinozzi: (3) Esuna Busy, Meiya Mitsurugi, Kaori Kanzaki
Meiya Mitsurugi: (3) Quicksword Irene, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi
Yuno Gasai: (2) Sayaka Miki, BlackRose
Sayaka Miki: (4) Uesugi Kenshin, Shana, Farina, Yuno Gasai
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Maka Albarn
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
~11 hours remaining.
Countdown timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=03&day=19&year=2012&hour=02&min=35&sec=&p0=251)
Remember; no majority = no lynch.
I don't really understand your motive in first telling Meiya her case on me is 'excellent', and then telling her how to better make that case while earlier saying you didn't want to jump my wagon because 2/4 were scumreads. Why are you assisting Meiya onto a wagon you yourself don't want to commit to?My motive is simple. I see a townie confused about their own thought processes and seek to help them clarify why they think the way they do. People should be able to commit to the reads they clearly have. I think if she can figure out how put how she feels into better words people will stop attacking her for sounding scummy.
She's pursuing her main one in a way I find townie (even if I think it's misguided) and she comments on all the other wagons and a lot of other people as well. I know exactly where she stands on these wagons. I don't feel the same way about you. That is why you are scummy.
Also why are we singling out only black rose? id be more satisfied with kaori lynch seeing as she makes no sense with her words and vote.I'd be cool with Kaori too. I guess it comes down to which you think is worse: not bothering to read the game and voting someone for lack of content when you couldn't even be bothered to read the game and the rest of their posts, or saying absolutely nothing and trying to encourage miller votes when most people clearly had no interest in them anymore. Both are absolutely awful, but we only have one lynch and I think Rose's behavior is worse than Kaori's. Explaining why in detail would be rather difficult because both are pretty awful. If it swung to Kaori instead of BlackRose I'd still vote on that, but I'll be pushing for Rose in the mean time.
the reasons why you found me scummy could have applied to Tenshi as wellExcept they can't. Tenshi's behavior is not like yours and I still have no idea why you think it is. It still feels like you're crying "why me," which I find more suspicious than anything else I've mentioned thus far. I think I might just not be explaining things very well due to being heavily drugged up because I have no idea where you even get this from. A lot of your accusations towards her felt outright unfair. The example I used in the first post was that she was defending her old case. Of course she was, she was asked to do so. A lot of your questioning feels like this.
you have no clear idea as to where I stand with' other wagons'? (Eclair? Meiya? Which other wagons?Before this post I had no idea what you thought of Eclair (I still really don't, but that you don't want to vote for her makes it more clear) because most of what you said about her was something along the lines of "misguided or scummy." Meiya was the only one of the current wagons I really know where you stood on, and I still don't know your opinions on most of the players in the game. If I'm just missing them because I can't read feel free to point them out for me, but I read through your posts about four times before writing this.
What of others like Kenshin and Esuna who have only be focusing on their pet cases?And you keep asking "why me" as you respond. I don't like it.
"Because you voted me to 'show support' for their arguments, not because you thought I was scum apparently." May I say that I feel that you, miss Martinozzi, are misrepresenting myself once more? The arguments before mine stated suspicion of miss Martinozzi being aligned with forces that are against town. If I agree with these arguments does that not mean that I also find myself to be suspicious of you, miss Martinozzi?
I had wished for you to respond and placing my vote upon you would have created further incentive for you to do so.
Firstly, miss Martinozzi's words within this post about the amount of content that I produced in terms of miss Farina and miss Hinanawi. Miss Martinozzi also states: "You still have not answered why Tenshi over Farina". I believe that I have provided an answer on multiple occasions throughout the course of the game so far. It is true that, if one looks purely at the number of words, I have said more about miss Farena however, as stated before, I placed more faith upon my thoughts of miss Hinanawi. To all those that continue to complain in regards to the placement of my vote I must ask: Is it so hard to fathom the idea that the length of the argument does not directly correlate to how likely I believe they are to be working against town? Why is it that you feel fit to mould my own judgements to match yours? Simply because you may have thought that I had a more convincing case on miss Farena does not mean that I was thinking the same thing.
"Are you really going to say I'm a Galette spy because I didn't stick to ED1 cases?" No. I am simply asking for reasoning so that I may understand your thought process. You have also ignored my question about miss Irene, instead focusing upon your interactions with miss Gasai so I shall ask once more for your thoughts on miss Irene.
My motive is simple. I see a townie confused about their own thought processes and seek to help them clarify why they think the way they do. People should be able to commit to the reads they clearly have. I think if she can figure out how put how she feels into better words people will stop attacking her for sounding scummy.
That would be a waste of a lynch today and would tell us nothing since she has almost no interactions with others. To me, Kaori just reads as newbie/bad play.Iunno, her stances seem ridiculously easy and thoughtless, and her lurking is right on up there with Blackrose, her only post out of ed1 she just jumps on the Eclair wagon with a blurb, yet she at the same time seems capable of coherent thought and delivers empty promises of more posts that never happened.
I'm still getting the feeling that people are cherry-picking my arguments and finding the things they don't like in hating me for being me. Farina's point of...Alright, I'll bite. What more is there for me to say about the Tenshi case that hasn't already been addressed by other people? Looking at your original vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.60.html), your main problem with Tenshi seemed to be "her exclusions and her dancing around the main issues", and I thought that was what I was talking about? Tenshi's case on Meiya didn't become part of your attack until she posted a defense of herself, so it looks pretty slimy to use that to discredit my attacks as incomplete! (Also, my scumread on you isn't related to meta, regardless of whether I actually know who you are or not.
(quote removed by forum software, rip ;_;)
... strikes me as particularly strange since I don't actually remember saying this outright, just that I used it to accentuate what I feel is scummy about Tenshi's short-sightedness on Meiya; e.g case on her has blatant mistakes and Meiya voted for her weaker case and therefore she's scum. I suppose I would indeed pay her 20,000 gold not to assist in killing me, as befitting of a mercenary, or at least comment directly on the validity of this case (and my current Yuno case) instead of using buzzwords like 'contrived' and what she perceives as me failing to answer Kenshin's queries adequately to fill in the gaps.
Also, she has not commented much in depth regarding anyone else beyond indifference on other wagons, a willingness to lynch BlackRose and casual interest in my wagon, which she still hasn't really sorted her thoughts on, though she seemed to have the opportunity to do so. I'm not sure why you think that she is especially town for 'commenting on others' in such a token way.
Eclair Martinozzi: (3) Esuna Busy, Meiya Mitsurugi, Kaori KanzakiBy this point you haven't even voted one of the counterwagons. For someone claiming to be a cop you show no concern for your self-preservation. You're trying to tell me you were counting on the scummy lurkers whom you've said you suspect to be scum as well to come save you?
Meiya Mitsurugi: (3) Quicksword Irene, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi
Yuno Gasai: (1) BlackRose
Sayaka Miki: (4) Uesugi Kenshin, Shana, Farina, Yuno Gasai
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Maka Albarn
BlackRose: (1) Sayaka Miki
6 hours remaining.
Countdown timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=03&day=19&year=2012&hour=02&min=35&sec=&p0=251)
You have no need to fret over the placement of my vote however, given the outstanding issues I have with you. There are still 13-14 hours left in the day and I will switch accordingly when needed to Tenshi (unlikely) or BlackRose/Kaori (active lurkers as of now;
A New Day and a New Votecount
BlackRose: (1) Yuno Gasai
Kaori Kanzaki: (2) Esuna Busy, Tenshi Hinanawi
Not Voting: Everyone Else!
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
58.5 hours remaining.
Countdown timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=3&day=23&year=2012&hour=00&min=15&sec=&p0=251)
I also want to say that LAL is NOT a bad strategy. Lurking is like the best scum strategy ever because people are afraid to lynch lurkers and it gives them a way to say absolutely nothing. Lurking is scummy.
Uesugi is pulling the lurkscum manuever, except :wordswords: -> actually does manage to slide by without much notice.
Note that in her non-ed1 post she doesn't actually comment on anything that had happened during the latter half of D1 apart from the three lurkers.
On the other people, she says she doesn't support their lynches because "She doesn't see a viable case" or "I need to see more from her first", rather then "I think ____ is town". This leaves her options open to be able to easily later jump on them later in the game with a vote if she deigns to... while simultaneously still in the future be able to say she thinks/thought they were town, and whichever she does fits perfectly fine with what she said in the past. (Scum benefit from keeping their supportable mislynch options open.)
Cut by Uesugi herself! Her Kaori vote is something obvious to anyone at this point and even if they're both scum I'd honestly be expecting scum to be bussing Kaori right now anyway. She notably still lacks opinions other then the easy targets (Sayaka is the only one in the game she's talked about past very early D1 who wasn't an easy target) so my opinion has not changed a bit.
Just one question, can you ask the mod how your role works with Weak Roles?I'm just going to ignore the irony of you calling me lazy and answer this. They would die if they targeted me.
Simply because going after solely lurkers would be the laziest thing ever. If Kaori ends up being the lynch of the day, my vote will be there.Lynching lurkers would be lazy but I'll do it if it's popular and not me.
Third point: Esuna. I have a major issue with last night's quickhammering. We still had an hour left in the day. You bare minimum could have been like "I am here and willing to switch my vote!" or something first. It kinda bothered me then (not the least of which because I got cut), and your recent posts aren't helping matters much. At the risk of sounding moronic I'm going to hold judgement until after I see your case on me, because it might at least show you're putting your own thoughts together.Yeah, I agree with this woman here! Hey Esuna, you had a town read and openly stated that you were tempted to let Sayaka live to test the claim when you posted the hammer, so... Why did you hammer and yet mention how OK you would have been with leaving Sayaka alive, when there was enough time left in the day to decide further? You're not tricking anybody by fluffing up your post to make you sound pro-town!
@Meiya: I think you're vote may be suited elsewhere. It seems to me you're votes on Eclair are now more out of stubbornness that you are right, and disbelief that you may be wrong.This is true and makes me feel better about my choice right now. Eclair comes off very town to me now.
As Farina has also said, you went from Tenshi is town, to Hammer Tenshi in a change of heart pretty quickly.You mean Sayaka right? Are you sure you read what happened?
I think Busy's Mitsurugi bizarreness may be a bit overblown by both Irene and Martinozzi, but I do agree with the pseudo-"panic mongering" Martinozzi brought up in #190 being a bad thing. "Not me over me" not even halfway into Day 1 is not really something that is going to happen and trying to accuse someone of it (even ignoring that it's not really something you bring to bear against someone) in that scenario doesn't read as something a townie would do.Okay, I don't know whether I should actually say this or not, because the core virtue of it is kind of retarded, but that was my hydra partner's opinion and I'm not wanting to shut them out of influencing the game or anything. They had points to back up our Eclair case so I sort of just put them in and didn't think about it very hard.
Also Kaori, are you really paying so little attention to the game that you're mixing up Tenshi and Meiya?Wow I didn't even notice that. Reading fast because you're not supposed to be doing it is so cool :c
I can understand your logic here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg806327.html#msg806327), but it bugs me that it could perfectly be an a posteriori argument. It didn't ocurr to me that Sayaka's initial fakeclaim was scummy until Farina pointed it out, and your lack of mentioning it in your "HAMMER THIS PLEASE" post makes me doubt whether it really did cross your mind at the moment. I'm hoping you could deliver some content about somebody other than the lurkers soon, even if you prefer not to switch your vote along with it.Farina isn't the one who pointed it out and was in fact responding to me talking about how fake the claim was.. Read this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg805474.html#msg805474), then this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg805481.html#msg805481), and finally this huge post explaining exactly what was wrong with the claim (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg805501.html#msg805501) and then tell me how we never talked about the fakeclaim.
On the other people, she says she doesn't support their lynches because "She doesn't see a viable case" or "I need to see more from her first", rather then "I think ____ is town". This leaves her options open to be able to easily later jump on them later in the game with a vote if she deigns to... while simultaneously still in the future be able to say she thinks/thought they were town, and whichever she does fits perfectly fine with what she said in the past. (Scum benefit from keeping their supportable mislynch options open.)
Cut by Uesugi herself! Her Kaori vote is something obvious to anyone at this point and even if they're both scum I'd honestly be expecting scum to be bussing Kaori right now anyway.
Okay, I don't know whether I should actually say this or not, because the core virtue of it is kind of retarded, but that was my hydra partner's opinion and I'm not wanting to shut them out of influencing the game or anything. They had points to back up our Eclair case so I sort of just put them in and didn't think about it very hard.
The correct reaction to fakeclaiming cop is to ever the everloving poo poo out of the person.Which is why she's scummy! What was up with the pointless posturing about how she was tempted to leave Sayaka alive, huh? That just looks like scum trying to look better when their hammer target turns out to actually be the vig. It'd be reasonable if she didn't use the hammer in the same post.
Anyway, I found what it is exactly in Farina's post that bugs me. One of the points on your Tenshi case is her refusing to read the wagon, which looks pretty bad when you don't really do it yourself. Don't you think that Uesugi's votepark was a particularly scummy vote in Miki's wagon? why is there almost no mention at all regarding Uesugi and Kaori in your post when wagons were being started on them?There's nothing to say about Kaori that hasn't already been said by others, and it's not like I didn't mention her, either.
It feels like you just went hipster mode and disregarded any possibility of commenting anything in-depth about them. You said be fine with Kaori's lynch for unknown reasons (which are pretty obvious, but still unmentioned), but that's it. The fact that you agreed with Esuna's disconnect, poked at it but didn't find it scummy enough to vote doesn't help either.
(Also, a part of me wants to believe Uesugi is town just because she's the only :goodposter: not posting a shit-ton of walls at this point. Seriously.)
Are you making stuff up about me to discredit me?
I wouldn't say you haven't had many opinions since you declared a lot of people Town, but you've notably never gone for anyone except me in the early gameI disappeared after ED1 because me and my partner weren't avaliable and after that I haven't touched you. YES the disappearing isn't a good thing but it's also a different matter entirely.
(Also, a part of me wants to believe Uesugi is town just because she's the only :goodposter: not posting a shit-ton of walls at this point. Seriously.)Because clearly you seem to think her D2 post is Really Good and better then what other people are saying, so you must think that only mentioning a super silly reason on me and then sitting on the superobvious Kaori wagon is a nice post.
Even if you declare Farina Town during D1, you can still declare her Scum during D2 after a 'reread' or similar excuse.This is so amusing to me now because her constant weirdness D2 is making me want to reread her D1.
so I just sort of grasped at the first thing I noticed while rereading Sayaka's posts and Meiya's flamboyant walls and tried to make it sound like I actually somewhat believed it.This is worded a little awkwardly. I didn't intend to make it sound like I had completely faked what I was saying about Meiya, which it sort of looks like here. This would be a better wording.
so I just sort of grasped at the first thing I noticed while rereading Sayaka's posts and Meiya's flamboyant walls and ran with it while trying to make it actually sound like I had changed my mind to think she's scum. (As opposed to voting a less-town-then-Sayaka read)
It might be slightly confirmation-biasy because her very strict amount of content was on the level of Uesugi's, and I felt both were focusing on talking about one person alone, which doesn't give any information on what they think about anybody else at all. Like Esuna said, this is scummy, since they can just make up an entire read on the spot without having to make it tie up with earlier reads.
This applies just as strongly to you. I wouldn't say you haven't had many opinions since you declared a lot of people Town, but you've notably never gone for anyone except me in the early game, Meiya in the lategame and then flip-flopping on your read of her (Town, not Town, Town, not Town). D1, you certainly never stuck out your neck and went for something that wasn't easy, egregious mostly because you lurked through most of it. Why is Kenshin scummy for this while you should not be? Why should I vote Kenshin for this and not you? This isn't a point of 'pot calling the kettle black and since both are black pot's opinion is invalid,' it is 'pot calling the kettle black, why should we lynch kettle over pot?'
As for defense of myself, A. An hour left in the day is not much, especially when most are sleeping. Second, lynches other then Sayaka no longer seemed viable. Finally, her claiming got super weird and the only viable wagon left had made a claim I felt made her look pretty darn town, leaving Sayaka as by far the better lynch choice.
And lastly, it was what, 1:30 am? I had to get the hell to sleep. I wasn't going to risk a No Lynch happening, and I'm extremely doubtful anything in that last hour would have changed the outcome of the day or been particularly important.
She was almost nonexistant Day 1 with a vote that literally never moved off of Sayaka.
Voting the lurkers right now is not a policy move. We believe at least one of them is scum.
Okay, I don't know whether I should actually say this or not, because the core virtue of it is kind of retarded, but that was my hydra partner's opinion and I'm not wanting to shut them out of influencing the game or anything
I'm going to keep my vote on Sayaka for now. If anyone has questions about why I want her lynched, please ask them while I'm here, but I get the feeling .
I disappeared after ED1 because me and my partner weren't avaliable and after that I haven't touched you. YES the disappearing isn't a good thing but it's also a different matter entirely.
If you want to accuse me of only going after easy targets, then does that mean Uesugi is suddenly an "easy target"? I sort of wrote up a big wall on why I think she's scum. Even if you don't agree with all of that.
Sayaka never gave me a reason to move my vote away. If you'll recall, she was yesterday's lynch, for better or for worse. Say what you will about my case on her, but saying someone's scummy because they started a wagon on someone and built on it for most of the day is pretty weird.
Why did you want her lynched?
One thing is to offer further clarification like you did in the earlier one, but a completely different thing is to provide 0 content and make town press you for it when it's late D1 and people are scrambling around to figure out who they want to lynch.
I have a fantastic video to show you.Thank you for posting this. It's basically what gave me the motivation to finish this post. :V This game has been horribly boring and frustrating for me so far for two reasons:
I realize you actually responded to part of my beef with you. Considering you voted Kaori while promising content on Kenshin, and you had all of the night phase to actually gather this content and then a good part of Day 2, I'm not at all happy with the claim that you went for Kenshin that strongly. Why did you deliver the content on Kenshin so late, and why did you focus first and foremost on Kaori?What are you talking about.
I never even mentioned Uesugi D1. I had forgotten she existed. You seem to be thinking of my first d2 post... then I went to bed, went to school, came home and posted a big case on Uesugi. It was during the same IRL day, most of which I was not in possession of computer access during until I actually began to post, at which point a large case on Uesugi promptly emerged.
That's good and all, but don't you think you should also comment on who's scum other than Kenshin?I'm entirely sold on two people being scum, do I have to catch the entire scumteam d2? ;_;
This isn't a point of 'pot calling the kettle black and since both are black pot's opinion is invalid,' it is 'pot calling the kettle black, why should we lynch kettle over pot?'I would like to think I've been doing a good job on this part through D2 so far! Eclair, do you think Uesugi's scumhunting effort D2 being practically EXCLUSIVELY LIMITED TO KAORI is okay? Yes, Uesugi is saying more things then just stuff about Kaori. NO, none of it is actually scumhunting or opinions on who she thinks could be scum other then Kaori or anything of the sort.
mmediately driving the day toward two lurker lynches without an explanation why Lurker A is more likely to flip scum than Lurker B, or a reasonable explanation why focusing on lurkers is more interesting than any other options is also weak, lazy and therefore scummy.Tenshi's response to me covered a lot of my quarrel with her, but it doesn't make me feel any safer about this. Why is Kaori a better target than BlackRose is when Tenshi has been spending the day with just as much conviction against BlackRose, if not more, shown by her questioning of me? Tenshi isn't pushing for a lurker lynch like Yuno was talking about, she's voteparking without a clear thought process toward her lurker-based priorities and is using LALu as a basis to push a lynch mindlessly, which is exactly how I would expect non-lurking scum to handle a situation like this. Every time she mentions Kaori, she also mentions BlackRose, but there's no thorough explanation why Kaori is scummier. This is also a major reason I've been hesitant to jump Kaori all day despite disliking her play.
Also Farina, what do you think of Kaori's post where she makes a case on me? Please don't cite anything about your own feelings on me or things from other people's case on me. Please only pay attention to the case that -she- made for the sake of this question. I would like to know how you feel about it because you seem to think Kaori does not look too bad (Maybe a little bad, but not too bad, because you express that you don't have much faith she'd flip scum.)I don't find fault with it, except for the part where she mixed Sayaka and Tenshi up in the middle of her post, despite having the names write a single sentence ago.
Originally, I disliked her vote on Meiya as I viewed it as opportunistic. She ignored my vote-prod until later in the day, and refused to refute the point to make some poorly thought-out cases instead. She failed to say anything redeeming for the remainder of the day until her claim.Are you implying the claim was townie? :V I wish you to clarify what was scummy about Sayaka making cases instead of defending against your prod vote. I actually felt her later day content was really good right up to fakeclaiming. Oh the morals these children are learning..
- Near as I can tell, the biggest group issue with Kenshin is staying on Miki all day, and I think she's adequately explained that one at least once.What about the lack of having any scum suspects other then Kaori d2?
I change my mind on Esuna, she's obvtown on the lone basis that up until now, everybody has been buddying up to me (naturally, as I am the finest mercenary Ilia has to offer) and I should've been a difficult mislynch from scum's PoV. Seriously.
Eclair, you've been really tunnelly all game and I'd like to know what you think of other people other than "okay yeah lurkers should also die" before we enter the chaotic stage of the day, why do you still think Esuna is scummier than anybody else? what do you think of Maka, Uesugi and the lurkers?
I don't think this looks like a matter of Eclair not being able to vote two players at once, it comes off more as disconnect, like she doesn't care about reading players aside from her main case.This though seems more of a playstyle argument. Speaking of, I am still happy with Irene the Second that I do not want to do anything to her.
given that I definitely don't trust Eclair right now, consider my negotiations with Meiya's wagon to be over.since it's the only comment she makes about my case on Meiya sort of a little I guess, and it discredits it based on who posted it, not the merits of its points or whatever.
I change my mind on Esuna, she's obvtown on the lone basis that up until now, everybody has been buddying up to me (naturally, as I am the finest mercenary Ilia has to offer) and I should've been a difficult mislynch from scum's PoV.Because that's a rubbish reason to declare someone Town.
Quoting for truth (and apathy. Mostly apathy)
BlackRose: (3) Farina, Meiya Mitsurugi, Yuno Gasai
Kaori Kanzaki: (2) Tenshi Hinanawi, Uesugi Kenshin
Esuna Busy: (2) Eclair Martinozzi, Kaori Kanzaki
Uesugi Kenshin: (2) Maka Albarn, Esuna Busy
Tenshi Hinanawi: (1) BlackRose
Maka Albarn: (1) Quicksword Irene
Not Voting: Nobody!
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
~12.5 hours remaining.
Countdown timer (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=3&day=23&year=2012&hour=00&min=15&sec=&p0=251)
I'm honestly confused as to why Eclair thinks it's bad or weird or whatever that I didn't create a case on Uesugi during the night, and instead created it as soon as I had the time to do so after D2 started.
Does the fact that my case came as soon as I had time on D2 to write it instead of the moment D2 started seriously make me worse?
This really just seems like a weird thing to try and use against me. Can't you stick to actual valid points? I think it honestly looks pretty scummy when you start to grasp for weird, sketchy points to use on me even if the rest of your case isn't sketchy.
I would like to think I've been doing a good job on this part through D2 so far! Eclair, do you think Uesugi's scumhunting effort D2 being practically EXCLUSIVELY LIMITED TO KAORI is okay? Yes, Uesugi is saying more things then just stuff about Kaori. NO, none of it is actually scumhunting or opinions on who she thinks could be scum other then Kaori or anything of the sort.
FoS: Irene
BlackRose would be my 2nd choice for scum. It's these two lines that bug me
FoS Sayaka
But I guess I should not let my feelings get the better of me. In any case, I more or less echo the above posters on Tenshi (that her hedonistic laziness is infuriating), and BlackRose and Meiya (for standing back and laughing at the mistakes of others). I also question as to why Eclair would rather go for what amounts to a useless vote rather than Meiya, whom she acknowledges as bandwagon hopping.
FoS YunoQuoting all my posts would be annoying, but I think you get the idea here anyway.
Like I mentioned before, I feel that the way to go with these two lurkers is to seriously get the two main wagons on them and get them both to claim. Even if we lynch one of them, scum will leave the other one alive in D3, when we most likely won't be able to afford a mislynch, so I'm pretty sure that this course of action would benefit town more than scum as of now. I can't think of anything right now, but I just woke up, so just in case I'm overlooking something important and this is totally wrong, please let me know ASAP so I can change my priorities before the time to reread runs out.
I do have my own questions for Farina. Weren't you the one that said Kaori was way worse then Blackrose (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg805449.html#msg805449) when people were divided between lurkers at Day 1 end, and who insisted Blackrose was just a lazy townie (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg806505.html#msg806505) right after calling her out during deadline? Your reasoning for voting with us frankly creeps me out. :S Why does it seem like the only reason you don't want to vote Kaori is because Tenshi is voting her?I changed my mind based on the way her D2 content plays into her activity schedule. My opinions from the start of the day were before she went another 24 hours without posting. Maybe my expectations are too high, but I thought she and Kaori would make more of an effort today after the way the day started.
Why does it seem like the only reason you don't want to vote Kaori is because Tenshi is voting her?That's not scummy like you're implying so much as silly play! I just stated why I'm uncomfortable with the Kaori wagon in the post that cut you.
I also want to know why you keep questioning Esuna about why she hammered when you were one of the people calling for the hammer at that moment.Hammering alone wasn't scummy. It's what she posted when hammering. Read my posts.
Oh why would you of all people cut me. -_- I question why you say that Kaori is the engineered wagon while Blackrose is subliminally scum removed. I question it because you accuse Tenshi because she's not making a distinction between them. Most of the game isn't.I am, you are, Uesugi is in that she's blasting one but not the other. Tenshi's the most egregious because she looks like she's making a slight distinction but doesn't put a town effort into deciding between the two, as opposed to, say, Eclair and Esuna. One reason the Kaori wagon looks engineered is because people who aren't making much of a real distinction seem to automatically pick Kaori.
The lack of actual case building on Kaori also doesn't please me given reading her three posts would be easy cakes.Super misrep, uhhhhhhhh here let me screenshot some examples of me having a case on kaori
Kenshin's scumhunting being limited in its scope isn't the slamdunk that you think it is, for all that I hate the lurker chasing, multiple people are guilty of it.Difference:Other people are doing more then COMPLETELY concentrating on a lurker and doing nothing else. (Granted, there are some who might not be, but I have more reasons then this on my uesugi case as well at least.)
And let's not you yourself voteparked on Kaori at the start of the dayI never said voting Kaori was bad. I want Kaori dead very much. It's not exactly a votepark given that I both made a case on Kaori as soon as I was avaliable and also made a case on someone else and then moved my vote onto said other person. Also before I forget, since it's consolidation time,
they needn't votepark on a lurker in preparation of their actual targetThis is a misrep, because Kaori is My Actual Target too. I have two Actual Targets. I firmly believe both are scum and I have been saying so all day. Why do you seem to keep forgetting key things about me when you're trying to prove I'm scummy so hard?
My question to you was why Kenshin is scummy over chasing an 'easy' target when you aren't?Kenshin has NOT DONE ANY OTHER SCUMHUNTING then the easy target today. That is why. She even stopped scumhunting on Sayaka, her target throughout d1, partway through day one.
@ Farina
When I talked about finding the lack of support to the Esuna lynch weird, I probably should've specified that this was because you seemed to prefer to focus only on the part of the case on her that said that "hammering 1 hour before the deadline with a fluffed up post is scummy", instead of the scummier read flip-flopping, and preferred to vote Tenshi over odd reasons:
- Wanting to turn D2 into a Blackrose/Kaori dichotomy, when a simple glance further down the thread showed that she was focusing on things other than LAL.
- Deflecting people from analyzing wagons, which seems like quite a stretch.
I honestly don't read Tenshi as so damn townie I'd lynch somebody over voting her, if people find scummy behaviour in her that I've overlooked, I'll be more than happy to look into it. It's just that your reasons to vote her aside from scolding Yuno in late D1 seem so... bland.
I understand them, but they're just not something I'd vote somebody over. It felt like you were giving somebody outright scummy a pass and fabricating reasons to vote for Tenshi.
I never said that this was ridiculously scummy and that I'd lynch you for it. In fact, I'd be inclined to think that it's just play not keeping up with my expectations, if it weren't for this:
What in the hell. I can get behind this reasoning when it's ED1 and people using voice recognition makes you want to lynch them, but it's halfway through D2, and to be willing to lynch somebody for posting lots of content/not wanting to lynch somebody for posting not posting lots of content is a ridiculous way of throwing out a town read.
Uesugi voteparked on Sayaka D1, dissapeared, came back a little before the deadline and very briefly commented that she "didn't like her recent posts", using that reasoning to keep said vote. This has been pointed out, and Uesugi completely ignored it and went on to vote a lurker. How in the heck do you completely overlook this scummy behaviour and label him town for an ED1 jokereason?
The line about wanting to believe Uesugi is town was a joke. In short, I've re-read her multiple times and haven't been able to see her as "obvscum lurker manipulating reads so that she can jump on whoever" instead of "succinct townie not posting more than necessary".
I change my mind on Esuna, she's obvtown on the lone basis that up until now, everybody has been buddying up to me (naturally, as I am the finest mercenary Ilia has to offer) and I should've been a difficult mislynch from scum's PoV. Seriously.
What I do feel like parroting however is how it's also been pointed out that she found Esuna scummy for hammering when she was pressing for said hammer right then, and to that I add that this was when Esuna was looking like a viable D2 lynch,I had that read from the start of the day before anybody said anything, but couldn't post it because I wasn't available to be deployed at the time.
However miss Rose then further adds that she would not mind seeing miss Kanzaki falling victim to the lynch if that were to be the day's end result. I ask of the people: Does this willingness to lynch not mean that miss Rose believes in her own thoughts that miss Kanzaki is not working towards the town win condition? If this is the case I refuse to accept miss Rose's reasons for avoiding placing her vote upon miss Kanzaki. I find this mindset to be very strange and cannot fathom any reason so as to why one that works towards the town win condition would be thinking in this manner....Sorry, I should just leave my vote parked on a lurker and not chase for other options. Clearly that is the town way. I'm sorry for my ways and cleanly accept my death now. *raises sword*
I still don't see Tenshi's distinction between the two lurkers. Both lurkers have posted enough that there is content to their name that they can be judged beyond how much effort they're putting into playing. I imagine town would want to look into them enough to decide which has outright scummier behavior instead of just treating them like a coinflip.
Kaori: :| does anyone really want me to post a wall on why she's scum like many others have already said?YES more text walls I've almost been able to read people's posts lately. Give me more things to carve up. I want to show off my sword some more, episode 21 was just the start!
Kaori: :| does anyone really want me to post a wall on why she's scum like many others have already said?
Yeah, I don't think it's scummy in that way. If scum doesn't know what your role is, they have no way to tell if their fakeclaim just got them killed or not. Anything confirmable is risky enough that the claim is probably town.No, because she could have actually blocked Irene last night, as either a Mafia Jailer (I recall this in Subterranean Animism mafia, Reimu, right?) or just a roleblocker.
I am BlackRose, Town Bodyguard. The MMO world and real world are colliding, and I can "hack" someone to prevent the spreading of the infection. Basically, I target someone, and I redirect any action they take towards me. Last night I targeted Yuno.
Reasons:
1) She looked suspicious to me still
2) Her role claim claimed to be anti-town to any informative role. If she were scum, she'd be the perfect target to send out the night kill because if any tracker/watcher saw her, they could put it on the role claim
Since I'm still alive, either I have been roleblocked and mod didn't inform me about it, or she did not send out a night kill. I'm leaning on the latter and she's basically confirmed town to me.
No, I redirect any action THEY TAKE to me.
"Taking an action" = Using one of your own night actions
Language barrier?
That said, doesn't her role actually do what she said it does? The role name is just a lie, like the nightvig being a Paranoid Cop.
Yes, I redirect any action the target takes towards myself.
Also, I changed my target for the night because I realized what my role did exactly.
Day 1 Final Votecount
Eclair Martinozzi: (1) Kaori Kanzaki
Meiya Mitsurugi: (4) Quicksword Irene, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi, Sayaka Miki
Yuno Gasai: (1) BlackRose
Sayaka Miki: (7) Uesugi Kenshin, Shana, Farina, Yuno Gasai, Meiya Mitsurugi, Maka Albarn, Esuna Busy - LYNCH!Indecisive as Fuck Votecount
BlackRose: (2) Yuno Gasai, Quicksword Irene
Kaori Kanzaki: (2) Tenshi Hinanawi, Uesugi Kenshin
Eclair Martinozzi: (1) Meiya Mitsurugi
Esuna Busy: (2) Eclair Martinozzi, Kaori Kanzaki
Uesugi Kenshin: (2) Maka Albarn, Esuna Busy
Tenshi Hinanawi: (2) BlackRose, FarinaPre-Claim Day 2 End
BlackRose: (5) Farina, Meiya Mitsurugi, Yuno Gasai, Quicksword Irene, Kaori Kanzaki
Kaori Kanzaki: (5) Uesugi Kenshin, Esuna Busy, BlackRose, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Maka Albarn
(Only change for day end is Tenshi switches to Blackrose.
Current notes:
- Kaori Kanzaki, Tenshi Hinanawi and Uesugi Kenshin are probably not a scumteam.
- Uesugi is either trying to incriminate themselves really badly or isn't scum.
I can't stay here any longer, my heavenly bed beckons. I'll admit I was ready to switch to Miki to do my best to secure a lynch, but with the claim that cut me just now and needing to go to bed, I'm gonna stay on Meiya.
Wish the claim had come earlier, but nothing to be done about it now.
Blugh. Of all the times to get sick, it had to be now. I wanna go to beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed ;_;
I've never been great with the role game, but neither claim stands out to me over the other. Kanzaki's claim is at least somewhat consistent with things she said on Day 1, and Irene seems like a bizarre choice for a scum faction roleblock. BlackRose's claim is harder to prove (obviously) but the results were also telegraphed in her #308, wording I found curious at the time but understand now. I think BlackRose may be a bit premature in calling Gasai "confirmed" town, since there are a number of reasons a given scum may not act in a noticeable way (something that wouldn't leave an appreciable mark like Rolecop or Framer, or something that may not act at all like the conventional Godmother), but It's possible her word choice is being influenced by Gasai's play.
Really, the thing that stands out the worst to me over the past couple of hours is Irene getting huffy about Kanzaki's claim forcing her to commit to a style of role and then vocally still hoping for a third train, which would presumably generate a third roleclaim from someone else. Scum don't only look for role info from their preferred NK targets, you know, and I know you've been looking for Farina pressure for a while, someone I'd consider to be a prime NK choice anyway.
Nothing stands out to me as needing immediate addressing from either Albarn or Kenshin, though I think the latter doesn't make enough of a distinction between scummy lurking and not-present-at-all lurking if she's still that irritated with Irene 1.0. For as much as the concluding statement is possibly-third-party and unlikely-scum.
Kenshin: I imagine BlackRose had her revelation before deciding on her Night 1 Action, and that Gasai was the choice she changed her mind to, rather than a choice she changed her mind away from.
I don't like doing this, but between being sick and not getting enough sleep for work even when I wasn't sick, I have to go to bed. The roleclaims more or less balance out for me, which defaults me back to my original gameplay stance, which is still the Kanzaki vote.
Cut by stuff wait what argh I have to read this before I leave don't I
Speaking of Kanzaki, after what happened at the end of Day 2, do you really think she won't claim who she targeted if she's not asked?Yes. After how difficult it was for her to understand what we wanted her to claim there is no reason to assume she would helpfully volunteer information needed for our discussions. As scum she would have no reason to either. Why do you assue your suspect will be forthright with information?
I am sorry to say, however, that in order for myself to grant you this personal favor I shall have to forget my prior arrangement with yourself and refer to Yukiteru as "Yukkie" once more.
Firstly, I must ask how miss Martinozzi's thoughts on both miss Gasai and miss Irene have changed. Miss Martinozzi first voted for miss Gasai within this post due to miss Gasai's miller claim. The fact that miss Gasai has claimed to be a miller has not changed. Does this mean that your attitude towards miss Gasai has also failed to change? The same can be said of miss Irene who has, from miss Martinozzi's perspective, claimed to be aligned with anti-town forces in this post. There have been no actions to change this fact so this leaves me to wonder why miss Martinozzi would not be voting for one that she believes to have outright claimed to be aligned with forces that work against the town. Miss Martinozzi claims in this post that she wishes not to leave her vote in a place that will serve no purpose however if miss Martinozzi truly believed miss Irene to be aligned with those that are not working towards town's win condition then would the vote not be serving a purpose simply by being upon miss Gasai? I ask why miss Martinozzi was so quick to give up on her vote on miss Gasai.To which my response was:
If I didn't mention Gasai during any of my previous posts, it's because I didn't find anything in her posts that really felt scummy enough to talk about. Complaining I do not jump on every little bit and try to spin it into scum is naive and you need to pick up training again. That is not how you catch Galette spies.And near Day 1 end she claimed:
In this post you state "If I didn't mention Gasai during any of my previous posts, it's because I didn't find anything in her posts that really felt scummy enough to talk about. Complaining I do not jump on every little bit and try to spin it into scum is naive and you need to pick up training again. That is not how you catch Galette spies." May I ask why you said this. I believe that my argument regarding the hypocrisy surrounding accusing miss Gasai of performing untelegraphed actions was directed at miss Miki, not you. Perhaps you, miss Martinozzi, are burdened with a guilty conscience?I cannot see how she can misconstrue her cases like this continuously and still not get flak from the rest of Town. There is a distinct difference between bad play and horrible play, and I consider her wordiness and extravagant attitude more of a way to hide the true meaning of her words than anything else. Continuous inattentiveness towards what she claims is Scum is horrible.
I also believe that statements such as "You had time to talk about Gasai's blurb on BlackRose, surely you have time to talk about why the person you're voting is a Galette spy." are highly provocative and serve no purpose other than to smear one's name.are further deflections to answer to stuff. Highly provocative it is, because I want Meiya to finally make clear why I am Scum, and she has yet to provide so.
As we are, once again, pressed for time I shall temporarily cease diverting my energies towards miss Martinozzi
Miss Martinozzi also states that: "This isn't enough reason to vote Tenshi over Farina for me and I want her to make that abundantly clear." I also find the notion that miss Martinozzi feels that she has the authority to determine what appears to be ill-motivated behaviour to others to be laughable. Especially when one considers the fact that miss Martinozzi complains within the very same post about how she cannot do anything if others do not agree with her viewpoints in regards to miss Irene's behaviours.
How in the hell does a town framer make any sense?
Miss Martinozzi, I had stopped addressing you and directed my efforts elsewhere because I have acknowledged that I was at fault in our exchangesI kinda missed that acknowledgement in the stream of words and will look for it then. If so, consider the point withdrawn. Still stands everything else.
I kinda missed that acknowledgement in the stream of words and will look for it then. If so, consider the point withdrawn. Still stands everything else.
The following is written in the mindset that Kanzaki is scum, because I still think she is.
Looking at how yesterday's wagons shook down, I am the least pleased with how Mitsurugi handled the situation. At the risk of stating the obvious, scum went into the situation knowing BlackRose would flip town. In reading Mitsurugi's #271, it's a lot (a lot) of fancy words that show disdain for both BlackRose and Kanzaki, but unless my eyes really started to atrophy in reading it all, I couldn't find a "this is why I'm voting for BlackRose instead of Kanzaki" anywhere in it. (I realize I was overly succinct on that same issue, but at least I made some sort of distinction and tried to explain it as Farina kept asking about it.) It also came right after Gasai switched to Kanzaki, which means it could be an effort to keep the trains close in the hopes the winds would ultimately blow BlackRose's way. Anyway, the Kanzaki comments without the distinction as to why BlackRose was worse could very well have been because Mitsurugi wanted to avoid both voting for her partner and looking like she didn't want to vote for her partner. If that makes any sense.
I'm also not quite sure I like Kenshin's confusion regarding BlackRose's role and the way it played out in the thread, given how gung-ho she was about it. It's not as bad as Mitsurugi's approach because maybe it was just an honest mistake under deadline pressure, but it still doesn't sit well with me.
Irene is a little of Column A, a little of Column B in that she's generally guilty of both of the above things but not quite to the same degree as either Mitsurugi or Kenshin. Her indecision on the lurkers and her confusion surrounding BlackRose's claim feel more genuine. I do note she said in #272 that she wanted to see a BlackRose post before deciding but then went ahead and decided six hours later anyway in #285, however. What changed in the meantime? (Also, just as a general gameplay thing, LAL is far more applicable after D1 than on D1. On D1 there are far too many potential outside circumstances to really accuse someone of trying to lurk through the game.)
I give Albarn a null-tell pass for holding her position because she had repeatedly disapproved of lurker voting and her vote would have been the hammer if she had switched regardless of who she switched to. Nothing else really stood out to me in my re-read; everyone else either went where they had telegraphed they would go or made a clear decision if they hadn't shown one already.
2) I dislike talking about why I think people are town or why I don't think they're good cases for a lynch; this is not a game of "i think this person is town because", it's a game of "i think this person is scum because." Doing the former is a waste of my resources.
@MOD: Would you announce LYLO, Potential LYLO and MYLO?No.
Eclair, it's possible we're not working at cross purposes right now. The could-bes are starting to get filtered down. Simply do some thinking in your head, looking over the players. If there are three scum, we don't see a combination that doesn't include Tenshi right now, including groups with Meiya.
Also Kaori isn't even attempting to put up a pretense of trying to play anymore. She just said what her n2 target was. And ontop of that, that she was rb'd, excusing her from any possible effect of her role that we could look for.
Bleh I'm feeling under the weather today so here's hoping I wake up feeling better. Until then, I should be able to whip up something that's at least passable.
Actually why would I do that, when my lovely partner sent me one? <3 Quoting it directly removes the quotes inside, so instead I have a picture of it for you. http://puu.sh/mfxW
(Especially if scum had info that Irene wouldn't know if she was roleblocked)
supporting the lynch (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg807478.html#msg807478) based on confusing wording that had already been sorted out earlier.
BROKEN PROMISESYou have no idea how appropriate this is to me. Although it doesn't change my opinion on what I've already said your words are attempting to make me see the light. Do you disagree with my assessment on Tenshi?
/me cries
Yes. Hydras are the devil. Especially when there being two of you somehow leads to you posting less.THE POT SURE IS BLACK TODAY, ISN'T IT? <3
To respond more directly to Tenshi, specifically her posts today: Can you explain why your suspicions of Uesugi would decrease if Kaori flipped town, when Uesugi had been voting Kaori since the start of the day? Can you also explain why Uesugi being confused about a town's roleclaim and believing they were lying is scummy?
Regarding terrible sleeping habits which I can hardly condone because sleep is the most important thing to me: The nature of my problem is more that you refrained from commenting overmuch before the claim happened. It didn't seem like you were fighting hard to oppose the lynch to push your own target and when the claim went down you just said obv true and left it at that.
I also note the next day you refrained from commenting on Meiya's claim at all. You never justify why you dropped your suspicions. At all. There isn't a single mention of her Day 1 after that.
Miki's flip makes me not feel quite as gung-ho on Mitsurugi, given I disliked them for rather similar things.
This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg807005.html#msg807005) contains your only mention of her that day, in a post that talks majorly about Uesugi and Maka and it's easy to miss the paragraph about how Meiya is voteparking. (You even comment that your current suspect brought up a good point about it.) You also never follow up on these comments and they aren't included in your accusations directed at her today. In my opinion it seems like you're taking each day seperately and bringing up the things people have done lately instead of making your reads based on fluid continuous thought processes.
Also, because you add on the Kaori vote on the end like that I can't tell why you're voting her over Meiya at this point, who it sounds like you have a much better case on. Your cut emphasizes this point to me.
Miss Kenshin felt it appropriate to use miss Rose's supposed confusion in regards to her own role as her reason to vote for miss Rose. Others pointed out to miss Kenshin that her analysis in regards to miss Rose's role was flawed. However miss Kenshin's response was to ignore these words of advice and to instead call for others to speak upon the subject whilst leaving her own vote upon miss Rose. Miss Kenshin clearly stated within this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg807478.html#msg807478) that she believed miss Kanzaki's claim to do her no favors so I ask why was it that miss Kenshin failed to move her vote when the basis for miss Kenshin choosing to place her vote upon miss Rose rather than miss Kenshin was proved to be nothing but an misinterpretation on miss Kenshin's part?
I'm not In addition I believe miss Uesugi to be a large offender in regards to over-dramatizing the timing of miss Busy's vote on miss Miki during the first day, though this has been covered in depth by others before me and I feel not the need to bore you all by reiterating their thoughts.
specially the parts on how Uesugi suddenly switched from wanting Kaori lynched throughout the whole day, to suddenly bring both lurkers down to the same level and then supporting the lynch (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg807478.html#msg807478) based on confusing wording that had already been sorted out earlier. Either Uesugi wasn't reading the thread properly and scumhunt effort where or this was a scum move made to prevent a Kaori lynch when a Blackrose mislynch was available.
That being said, I also have to be entirely honest and come out and say that I haven't read Tenshi's posts very much during this entire game.
I have no idea what you mean. I'm just a sweet innocent Diary Owner writing about her beloved. And we're more like posting ad a median between us.
Speaking of misinterpretation, I did not vote BlackRose at all (though I suppose I would have had she not been at L-1)... so this entire statement seems pretty meaningless.
Despite quite clearly stating that I did not think she was scum because of it? I'm seriously starting to doubt you're even reading my posts. :/
I was certainly confused by BlackRose's claim, and continued to be confused until here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg807492.html#msg807492). ... Actually, you know what? No, that's not true. I'm still confused by her damn claim, because she flipped town and was therefore being truthful... but admitted to fakeclaiming (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg807517.html#msg807517)?! She targeted Yuno but Yuno effectively counterclaimed her (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.msg807494.html#msg807494)? I clearly don't understand anything about this game anymore. Ugh, if someone whose brain isn't currently a scrambled mess wants to clue me in on what happened yesterday prior to the lynch, I'm all ears.
Why are you under the impression of being roleblocked?I believe I was roleblocked because That is the main role I know of that causes actions to fail.
I totally forgot to mention one last thing.I had no thought of this until you pointed it out.
Reading through old PMs in this account, mods seem to usually let the player know when their night action outright fails, why would you "suspect" that you've been roleblocked when it should be a matter of the action going through or being told that it didn't?
Are you trying to get a softclaim out of Eclair today as well or what?
Way past my bed time, I need sleep.
To elaborate, it's not even trying to put up a pretense of attempting to play because she said what her supposed n2 target was (and that she was roleblocked) and left.
Nothing else. Other then BROKEN PROMISES
@Mod. Uh... actually, can we get a prodcount?
8) Tenshi Hinanawi (Touhou Project)
I'm still half asleep but I can answer Tenshi in that I'm well aware what her stated reason was for dropping Meiya in her suspicions. I ignored it because it's not a reason at all. You thought Sayaka was a town cop being put up against Meiya as a mislynch and there was no real doubt in this stance. Why would Sayaka's town flip convince you her counterwagon was also town? Why didn't you mention this at the time? It looked like you just wanted to forget the first day ever happened.
I Agree with EsunaDra case on Uesugi.
##Vote Uesugi Kenshin
I never promised, I said I would make a post, I never specified what time it would be. This applied to every other post that used it as well. It was merely the way you looked at it, and expected it to come soon each time.
I'm going to assume Busy's going to be useless for the rest of the game because I'm pretty sure both hydra heads exploded into a million tiny pieces upon reading this.One of us did, and the other got some glue and a broom. We're back, folks!
I believe I was roleblocked because That is the main role I know of that causes actions to fail.This doesn't answer the question at all. Why do you think your action failed?
Eclair, it's possible we're not working at cross purposes right now. The could-bes are starting to get filtered down. Simply do some thinking in your head, looking over the players. If there are three scum, we don't see a combination that doesn't include Tenshi right now, including groups with Meiya.
I have nigh-zero experience at wagon analysis, could I get some explanation for that? No matter how much I stare at the votecounts you quoted, I don't see anything other than your first conclusion, which is still probably not very trustworthy considering there's a history of scumplayers here bussing like hell and doing weird stuff like bus triangles.
Eclair Martinozzi: (1) Kaori KanzakiThe theory is that scum don't want to be seen together. One scum on each wagon and one off-wagon or two on the main wagon and one on the other. With the possibility of Meiya being scum high, if Tenshi isn't scum it would mean Meiya is scum and there were no scum on the scum wagon. Considering the scum here catch scum more often then town do that is highly doubtful. Also, third on the wagon is scum. :V
Meiya Mitsurugi: (4) Quicksword Irene, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi, Sayaka Miki
Yuno Gasai: (1) BlackRose
Sayaka Miki: (7) Uesugi Kenshin, Shana, Farina, Yuno Gasai, Meiya Mitsurugi, Maka Albarn, Esuna Busy
(The part about keeping our identities secret is also funny. I would be surprised if anyone besides you didn't know who we were. )
And regarding Esuna's vote on Kaori while I write this. That would be a waste of a lynch today and would tell us nothing since she has almost no interactions with others. To me, Kaori just reads as newbie/bad play.
Irene is lurky so iunno about her yet. Conversely Kaori is lurky but she's really bad because her posts are creatable with a bare minimum of thought put into playing. Shana is [REDACTED] and so I don't even know yet.
I have to agree that it doesn't look like anyone is helping her, or telling her to stop saying the things that are making people hate her.Yet despite how much everyone hates her
If it makes you feel any better, I'd rather lynch Uesugi, but the three votes on her are... ugh =/
Eh, Kaori, to make it absolutely clear since we've only got 27 hours left. Does this mean:Reading and rereading the the message, I'm going to assume it is more closely related to (B)
a) you were told you succeeded N1 and that you didn't receive that confirmation N2
Or
b) you were outright told that you didn't succeed N2?
I'm asking you two yes or no questions. I only want one yes or no response to each of them. No additional words are required.I have no idea how that is a yes or no question,
1.) Did you get told you suceeded Night 1?
2.) Did you get told you failed Night 2?
Again, yes or no only.
This took about a whole day to happen.
That is a blunder on my part.
I accept the fact that I have performed sub-optimally this game
this was due to a misinterpretation on my part
It appears as though I have miscalculated
My apologies.
Firstly, I must apologize once more.
I apologize once more
I must sincerely apologize to all of you
I shall also note that I will be unavailable for many of the hours in the following day and sincerely apologize for any and all inconveniences that my inactivity may cause.
I must apologize once more
Miss Hinanawi, I will apologize in regards to the first point.
The chances of her actually being a cult recruiter are nil.Fucking dammit why does this have to actually sound plausible?
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, Affinity! You are Sayaka Miki, Town Paranoid Cop.
You became a magical girl to protect the people who couldn't fight back...or so you told yourself. But after being betrayed by the people closest to you, you've adopted a rather different philosophy. You'll rip apart the scumbags of the world with your own hands, whatever it takes.
During the night, you have the ability to target certain players with your enhanced investigation techniques in the hopes of revealing their true alignment...by flipping them dead. For you though, the real question is this - are the scum lurking inconspicuously, or actively leading the town off a cliff?
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Active, One-Shot) During the night phase, you may ##Execute the player(s) with the most number of prods the previous game day in an attempt to kill them. You may use only one ability per night.
(Active, One-Shot) During the night phase, you may ##Murder the player(s) with the least number of votes at the end of the game day in an attempt to kill them. You may use only one ability per night.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, Dormio! You are Meiya Mitsurugi, Town Godmother.
You are the 1% and as such, you've decided to come and play with the rest of the "common people" to partake in their worldly knowledge. You hear that there's a group of people going around using such underhanded tactics as murdering people in the middle of the night. How despicable!
As a leading member of the society, you have the ability to appear as town to any investigation. Additionally, your wealth and background ensure that you are protected from harm during the night, but only as long as the money lasts.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Passive) You are a member of the town with [REDACTED], [REDACTED], [REDACTED], [REDACTED], [REDACTED], [REDACTED], [REDACTED], [REDACTED], and [REDACTED]. You may communicate with them during the day in this thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12276.0.html).
(Passive) You will appear as town to all investigations.
(Passive) You have a 9-shot bulletproof ability.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, Hanged Hourai! You are Maka Albarn, Town Vanillizer.
As a meister, you're out to defeat and collect the souls of evildoers and witches. What better way to do this than to exterminate the mafia hiding amongst you?
Using your trusty scythe, you are able to remove the abilities of any poor soul that crosses your path.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Active) During the night phase, you may ##Reap a player to absorb their soul. This will remove most, if not all, of their non-factional abilities for the remainder of the game.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, Shadoweh/Kitten4U! You are Yuno Gasai, Town Cult Recruiter.
Some people think Yukiteru is a loser. But you know better. He's the #1 cutest, and you'll make sure that everyone else knows that too.
Every night, you may recruit another player into the cult of Yukiteru, where you may converse with them at all times about what Yukiteru is doing, how great he is, etc. Unfortunately, some people regard your behavior as a bit obsessive, and they automatically assume the worst whenever you're involved...
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Active) Once per night phase, you may ##Recruit a player into the cult of Yukiteru and converse with them in this QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/kcF5t2SmrphRB) at any time.
(Passive) You are a Miller of all Trades. Any alignment investigation will return you as anti-town. You will be seen visiting any night kills that occur. In addition, any investigative or statistical ability not mentioned here will return the worse possible result.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, PX! You are BlackRose, Town Bodyguard.
They told you it was just another MMORPG. But when the boundary between the gaming world and real life begins to fade, you know something's up.
You're here to contain the incident before it spreads any further. At night, you can target a player to absorb all night actions they perform in an effort to stop the infection. After all, the only way to win is not to play.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Active) Once per night phase, you may ##Hack a player to redirect all actions originating from that player to yourself.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, Bardiche! You are Eclair Martinozzi, Town Mirror Knight.
As the captain of the Praetorian Guards, you know quite a bit about swordplay. If anyone tries something funny on you, you'll parry their actions right back. Just because your ears are small doesn't mean you can't fight, after all!
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Passive) Any non-fatal actions directed at you will be reflected back at the originator.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, ActionDan (later Vhaltz)! You are Quicksword Irene, Town Chief of Police.
Once a high-standing member of The Organization, you've now gone into hiding. But you're not going to just stand there and take it when some dog tells you your life is forfeit. You didn't become No. 2 for nothing, after all.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Active, One Shot) Once in the game, you may prevent a lynch on yourself. Your flip will not be shown, and the day does not reset unless specified otherwise.
(Passive) If you are lynched, all investigative results will return no result for the rest of the game.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, huhwhat! You are Farina, Town Framer.
A true mercenary, you'll get the job done as long as you're paid. And as a Pegasus Knight, nothing on the battlefield is hidden from your view. Unfortunately, your love for money leads to some rather unfortunate side effects...
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Active) During the night phase, you may ##Rolecop a player to determine the name of their role.
(Passive) Any player you target will have their investigative alignment switched for the rest of the game.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, NeoSerela/Dorian! You are Esuna Busy, Town Teamster.
You're some lame elf magician who doesn't even use swords. Get out, knave. Well, at least you're not totally useless.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Active) During the night phase, you may ##Switch two players such that any night action performed on a switched player will affect the other player for that night.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, drrawr! You are Shana, Town Superstar.
You're not just any high school girl. You're the Flame-Haired Burning-Eyed Hunter, and the scumbags here won't stand a chance. You're here to eat melonpan and kick Guze no Tomogara, and you're all out of melonpan.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated and there is at least one Town member remaining. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Active, One-Shot) Once in the game during the night phase, you may activate ##Fuzetsu to tell everyone to urusai. This will draw all investigative and killing actions towards you, while also canceling out the effects of most other roles. However, this ability may still be blocked.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, Kilgamayan! You are Tenshi Hinanawi, Mafia Demagogue.
Drinking sake and eating peaches gets boring after a while. So now that you've nicked the Sword of Hisou, you have the urge to bash some townie heads in. Just to keep things fresh and exciting, you know?
You win when the Mafia outnumbers the town or when nothing can prevent the same from happening. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Passive, Factional) You are a member of the scum team with Kaori Kanzaki and Uesugi Kenshin. You may communicate at any time in this QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/mcufw79yX9UQX).
(Active, Factional) You may submit the factional mafia kill for the scumteam.
(Active) Once per day, you may ##Enlighten a player, resulting in their lynch and otherwise resetting the day. However, if this results in the death of a town player, you will commit suicide. Far be it for a celestial to sin, and you still have your pride to watch out for.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, Hero999! You are Kaori Kanzaki, Mafia Gaolkeeper.
They call themselves townies, but all you see is a carnival of sinners. You've teamed up with your partners to purify these wayward warriors and set them on the path to righteousness.
You win when the Mafia outnumbers the town or when nothing can prevent the same from happening. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Passive, Factional) You are a member of the scum team with Tenshi Hinanawi and Uesugi Kenshin. You may communicate at any time in this QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/mcufw79yX9UQX).
(Active, Factional) You may submit the factional mafia kill for the scumteam.
(Active) During the night, you may ##Investigate a player to simultaneously protect them and determine their alignment. You may not perform this action while sending in the factional kill.
(Passive) All night actions performed by you will perform an automatic roleblock on the target.
Welcome to Sword Girls Mafia, Edible! You are Uesugi Kenshin, Mafia Spirit Medium.
Looking at the playerlist, you realized that many of them weren't even sword wielders. Absolutely atrocious! As the God of Warfare, you've come to teach these lightweights how to fight with a real weapon, and the first step in that lesson is to smack them down like the ants they are.
You win when the Mafia outnumbers the town or when nothing can prevent the same from happening. Please confirm in the thread with your anon account. Good luck!
Abilities:
(Passive, Factional) You are a member of the scum team with Tenshi Hinanawi and Kaori Kanzaki. You may communicate at any time in this QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/mcufw79yX9UQX).
(Active, Factional) You may submit the factional mafia kill for the scumteam. Night kills performed by you will pierce through any protection due to your unparalleled swordsmanship.
FUCK, WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?
I went to the bathroom after sending those PMs, thought about it some more, and... no, I don't get it. He KNEW there was a Cop in the game. He knew roles in the game were most likely oddly named, too! He could have just claimed vig! It would have been more believable, wouldn't have outed a counterclaim and would have had a higher chance of him surviving to D2 if it was believed, because that's how you handle provable claims.
Just... why. I am so fucking confused by this game right now.
In other news, I'm pretty sure Esuna's hammer came from scum.
I'm also pretty sure I'm dying tonight though because just about everybody except for Meiya buddied up to me with some sort of 'FARINA IS SO TOWN" yesterday. SIGH.
congratulations, your pm inbox is my new thoughts quicktopic, since there's no way I'll not be instalynched if I post meaningless NK spec in-thread(I wasn't actually analyzing Yuukii's posting style so I thought it was just Dormio being Kyon or something, and I thought Edible was umu because his first D1 post reminded me of Kuruμnut, like, a lot)
ANYWAY
They killed Shana? Really? This is the game with Hourai the wannabe pro-active supertown, Kilga and umu the N1 Policy Kills, a Shadoweh/Dormio superhydra, and whoever the hell Eclair is and I getting heralded as townie in like every other post, and they killed fucking SHANA? As in the lurker who didn't even know what a Godmother is until somebody told her?
A part of me wants to just policy lynch Shadoweh because I think that kill would come from her and set-up speculation says she's obvscum, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't go through. :eng99: Still, there had better be a town bus driver, otherwise scum is just laughing at us and we probably have a Kilga/umu/Shadormio scumteam who are just making dumb kills to fuck with the town because they know they've won anyway due to RNG and can be smugnoxious about it. Though I guess none of them are the type to actually do that except for maybe Dormio. I don't actually think Shadoweh is scum, either, but it FEELS like she should be.
anyway, uh, i'm probably not going to be available to play mafiers until like Late Nite or something so if i hit the 24 hour mark i'm probably just then working on a post
At the very least, I thinkPXBlackRose's player deserves to be carded for that entire day. Throughout the last few games, he's basically been flaking and lurking constantly regardless of alignment. It's infuriating to play with and only serves to degrade the quality of the game. What happened here (ignoring the meat of the day to the point where he was modkilled) was just ridiculous given his D1 and his history in general. I kind of get the impression that what I said about him lurking because he knew he could survive the day might have actually been true even though he flipped town. He's fully capable of actively playing and contributing to the game instead of only making random readposts on occasions and he has shown this multiple times before, why does he not bother doing so?
Obviously, this doesn't really apply if he had a good IRL excuse, but if he did, then I'm not aware.
If BlackRose was somehow NOT PX then ignore me.
They killed Shana? Really? This is the game with Hourai the wannabe pro-active supertown, Kilga and umu the N1 Policy Kills, a Shadoweh/Dormio superhydra, and whoever the hell Eclair is and I getting heralded as townie in like every other post, and they killed fucking SHANA? As in the lurker who didn't even know what a Godmother is until somebody told her?
7) Shana (Shakugan no Shana) <-- Town, but totally punchable
you were part of the reason scum forfeited to the non-existant bus driving serial killer, so yeah
I can accept that the addition of town roles like the bus driver and lightning rod screwed over the scumteam, but I don't agree with your statement that the game lied to you from start to finish.
I still dont understandIt's because the scumteam was not even able to choose their nightkill target.
I figured we were given the one-day-early-LYLO-combo thing because our roles were pretty shit otherwise, and even then it was hardly a guarantee because we still would have had to pick the third party out of a bunch of townies (which is why we had the cop, of course!). It's easy to point at the rest of the setup and how underpowered a lot of the town roles were in order to balance the underpowered scum roles because you knew what the setup was. We didn't.Mmm, this I can understand. I originally designed this setup because I wanted to have a setup with roles that didn't focus on the roles, so mostly functional vanilla, or perhaps town roles with negative utility, etc. Sometimes the best way to use a role is to not use it at all. I ended up having to add actual roles to the setup for "balance." I dislike town cops because any half-witted townie can use a cop role to great effect, so I tried giving town some more unconventional roles (redirectors, all of which were basically last-minute additions, especially the bus driver and lightning rod). Redirectors are less reliable and pretty swingy, but their ability to mess with the scum NK means they can do a lot more harm in the right hands. On the other hand, the scumteam had basically the same power it had before. If I were to run this setup again I'd nix at least those two roles; I imagine the scumteam would have had a different perspective on the game if their kills the first two nights had gone the way they wanted to.
Bu- But I don't forget commas.
So, it wasn't just me reading along going,"Man, this is a trainwreck. I don't really know what's happening."
As for other people, Albarn was completely out of my mind as a third party because who the fuck gets prodded that much and comes within 4 hours of a modkill as a third party.Kilga, aren't you the one that modded the Moriyavatar? 8)
Roles aside, there's also the fact that Hero and Edible cemented themselves as scum over the course of the game. Kilga's shot was a gambit with too much risk given that he'd have to solo the rest of the game even if it worked out.
I'll assure you this game is far from typical. :vI figured as much. It's why I decided to sit this one out as opposed to "oh boy my second game let's play the craziest one possible"
God damn it the only thing I've ever read with a cult in it was Shadoweh Quest.Wait why have people not forgotten about this yet fffffffffffffffffffffff
(I wasn't actually analyzing Yuukii's posting style so I thought it was just Dormio being Kyon or something, and I thought Edible was umu because his first D1 post reminded me of Kuruμnut, like, a lot)I happened upon this thread just late enough to realize that I missed my chance to be Farina
Wait why have people not forgotten about this yet fffffffffffffffffffffff
they're not posting because they don't want to interrupt the ever-exciting xXx Vhaltz and Shadoweh Variety Hour xXx, of course
Nobody reads my posts ever.
Farina(refer to confirmation post)who is in no way a sword girl.
EDITagain. I should probably clarify for Dormio that Remilius and Vhaltz are the same person :VSee Conq? I was right!
<Conq> Haha
<Conq> I like Serela after Tenshi suicided
<ActionDan> lol
<Conq> IRENE YOU'RE ALREADY CULTED AREN'T YOU
<ActionDan> lllllllllllllllllol
(refer to confirmation post)
Also, Edible, it's unfair to paint me as an actual Rolecop, given that I also had to target carefully due to the bastard framing and learned jack shit due to the game's role names. Not denying that the game was imba, though.
See Conq? I was right!
I was more amused at Conq being totally confused about who Remilius was in your QT :VThat is what I was referring to.
Question: How in the world did I end up surviving till end game?don't even get me started
Question: How in the world did I end up surviving till end game?