Sword Girls Anonymafia - Someone Wins

[Ryuki]

For Eclair, are you implying that Farina and Meiya are somehow scumbuddies?  I understand the 'posturing' point but I can't seem to put it in the context of why it is scummy unless the above condition is fulfilled.

Meiya is scummy for posturing about how Farina is scummy, and then goes off and votes someone else. What exactly makes you think I am implying Farina is a traitor? I don't have any interest in lynching Farina right now, she's a fairly uninteresting individual and I don't think she's in the Galette camp.

[capt. h]

This votecount brought to you by cats. The cats rule the world.

Eclair Martinozzi: (4) Kaori Kanzaki, Esuna Busy, BlackRose, Farina
Meiya Mitsurugi: (3) Quicksword Irene, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi
BlackRose: (1) Yuno Gasai
Tenshi Hinanawi: (2) Meiya Mitsurugi, Sayaka Miki
Sayaka Miki: (2) Uesugi Kenshin, Shana
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Maka Albarn

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
~26.5 hours remaining.
Countdown timer

O_O

[DiEnd]

Just to make sure this is clear.

In regards to the "mutliple misconceptions" thing, that was said in regard to multiple people missing the reasons for my vote. Mitsurugi continuing to posit incorrect reasons for my vote after I explained it again is, as far as I'm concerned, either inattentiveness or intentional misrepresentation, both of which are scummy.

Bolding new and for emphasis. This is a relatively minor thing but I'm tired of writing walls explaining why what people say I said is wrong so I want ot nip it in the bud now.

On to more important matters. Inattentiveness in regards to the circumstances surrounding your vote target is scummy because it implies you don't care enough about your case to at least double-check it to make sure it's factually correct and has covered all of the important issues. Townies care far more about which specific individuals get lynched; scum don't care who gets lynched so long as it isn't one of their number. Scum also aren't interested in making solid cases so much as they are interested in making cases that get them a pass from town. This is why not caring about your case is scummy.

Assuming the issue is still relevant even though Martinozzi has posted, I can see why you'd think Martinozzi is proposing that Mitsurugi and Farina are scum together, but I think that thinking Mitsurugi is scum and Farina is town is far from unreasonable given what Martinozzi has brought to bear against Mitsurugi, and as such I didn't think Martinozzi felt they were a scumpair even before Martinozzi's most recent post. A scum voicing suspicions of someone before voting someone else for weaker reasons does not necessarily make the first person their partner. The scum could simply be trying to discredit a townie, or they could be trying to set up a later voteswitch, or a number of other things.

[Punch Hopper]

[9:23:45] Yukkii and I have finished reviewing the game together. I wonder if he'll make a speech?

Hellooo again everyone!
##Unvote

BlackRose isn't going anywhere and there are more constructive places for me to put my vote.

Actually this wagon was three strong by this point. Blackrose isn't posting anywhere either. In my opinion you changed a good vote to go after someone uninteresting before the person you'd voted had been called upon to make a real opinion known. Going after someone for not following up on stuff when they haven't made another post is silly. Yukkii and I are better at finding the good in people then abject scuminess. You aren't going to get a huge list of scum reads. The active posters all look pretty town, so all this town fighting means scum can hang back, therefore lurking is more pro-scum than usual. It also means in my opinion, that you should make a few less text walls and just punish the people who aren't contributing.

[10:33:56] Yukkii wants to comment on the wagons. Why do we care about these other girls, Yukkii? >:T

Eclair's posts are slightly worrying, in that they seem like snipes at players without saying much themselves. I'm hesitant to join the wagon though simply because 2/4 voters are scum reads.
Meiya is extremely townie and I don't get why there was such a quick wagon on her. She sounds confused and people are attacking her for confusion rather then scumminess.

[10:40:34] Yukkii found some suspicious people hanging around his house. Don't worry Yukkii. I'll take care of them. Permenantly.

Shana is lurky, but has pretty much the same reads as Yukkii. Maybe Yukkii is a ShanaFan? I have a slight town read on her so far, but she's under watch. Uesugi is being watched for similar reasons. I don't find either bad enough to vote over it. Their target has also picked up on my suspicions so it makes me feel better about them.

Kaori is scum is because she's persuing policy lynches as serious against people she seems to think is town. Seriously, she outright called our claim "not a scum action". Lurking is what I expect scum to be doing at this stage and this fits it to a T.

Blackrose is still scum from earlier. Not posting makes it worse, not better. This place looks crowded with town walls of text and in my opinion a scum lurker would be intimidated away from posting more of their shoddy content.

Sayaka is the weakest of our scum reads, and I think it's because her reasoning is hard to follow.  In my opinion going after lurkers is actually harder on Day 1. Going after someone like Tenshi is easy. The more words someone puts out the better a case people feel like they can put out. Tenshi explained her case on Maya because she was asked to. Responding to the queries of others isn't scummy. Focusing on your suspect isn't scummy. I think you're just taking one suspect and riding them for not being capable of answering you 'correctly', and never changing your opinions is scummy. I don't think Tenshi is any more viable a suspect right now then you think Blackrose is, and despite all your 'content' I don't know who you would vote as an alternative.

I also have no idea what you're accusing me of when you mention me patting Tenshi on the back for being silly (and thinking she's town), but imply I was attacking Tenshi for this. The second part about pursuing easy suspects has nothing to do with the first about her.

(Actually I think I just figured out who Sayaka is and I would find them suspicious just for being them.)

Unfortunately it looks like everyone would rather attack the people who are here and ignore the lurkers like a typical Day 1. The people I would not wagon under any circumstances are Farina, Irene, Maka, Meiya, Tenshi or Esuna. I feel like the wagons are spread out enough that trying to start new ones at this point is just going to have us scrambling for votes later. I prefer Sayaka over Eclair and Blackrose or Kaori over either.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sayaka

I also refuse to post any more walls of text. Yukkii is a big boy, he can do it himself.

[Kick Hopper]

May I say that I find miss Martinozzi's comments within this post to be rather unexemplary? In regards to the point that I was, in your words, "posturing about how scummy Farina is, then goes off and votes someone she's questioning." I feel that this is a grave misrepresentation of the events that actually transpired. Miss Martinozzi also states that: "This isn't enough reason to vote Tenshi over Farina for me and I want her to make that abundantly clear." I also find the notion that miss Martinozzi feels that she has the authority to determine what appears to be ill-motivated behaviour to others to be laughable. Especially when one considers the fact that miss Martinozzi complains within the very same post about how she cannot do anything if others do not agree with her viewpoints in regards to miss Irene's behaviours. There is also the following audacious statement from miss Martinozzi: "She isn't excusing her own behavior,". I do not know where your values lie, but I take full responsibility for my actions and therefore will not do more than provide an explanation so that others may make their own judgements about my behaviour. If others believe that I have taken measures that appear not to be aimed towards achieving the town's win condition, so be it. That is their decision to make, not mine. As for why I would not have placed my vote upon you if I had noticed that there were more votes than I had originally anticipated on you, it is because I believed that miss Alburn and miss Busy had made valid arguments which I wished to display my support towards. As stated before, I had not noticed that miss Rose had already performed this action and made my own to be redundant. How exactly does this behaviour demonstrate my unwillingness to work towards the town win condition?

I must apologize once more to miss Hinanawi for the grave transgression I have made in not realizing that one of the major qualms I had in regards to her behaviours had, in fact, already been addressed.
##Unvote

I cannot help but feel that miss Busy is tunnelling on miss Martinozzi. It is true that miss Busy has made comments about miss Alburn, miss Miki, and miss Kanzaki but these are all superficial. Miss Miki is also of interest, however I will need more time to read the topic more thoroughly. I have dawdled whilst writing this post for far too long, and will therefore post what I have so far for the time being.

[Faiz]

Regarding Eclair's and Tenshi's reasoning for voting Meiya, I regard both their explanations as either scummy or misguided.  While I suppose logical mistakes in reasoning counts as a relatively popular scumread, I don't think they have addressed the possibility that townies could occasionally overlook something in their construction of cases (personal experience would tell me that I have made these mistakes before), or that scum could care about which townie they want lynched as much as other townies (personal experience counts as well).  Tenshi's vision of a playerbase in this meta consisting only of smart and conscientious heroes and dumb villains strikes me as hopelessly naive to the point of disbelief even to a person such as me, especially when she is supposedly a 1000 year-old celestial.

As for Meiya's Farina over Tenshi thing being implicitly scummy, Eclair's explanation is rhetoric, while I'm slightly more satisfied with Tenshi's explanation.  I am still in disagreement, however, as to what conditions related to alignment would cause scum!Meiya to vote for Tenshi and town!Meiya to vote for Farina, given that both targets had no votes to them at that point.

That said, I suppose my questioning of Tenshi has run its course, given that I got all the answers I required from her. 

As a side note, on a reread, I feel that Eclair's pressing on Meiya in posts such as her deflection point here are more townie than Tenshi's, though I still disagree with her reasoning.

##Unvote
##Vote: Gasai Yuno

I suppose murderers will stay as murderers.  First, Yuno's reasons for voting me here could easily apply to Tenshi herself as well; she has also been 'taking only one suspect and riding her for not being capable of answering her correctly'.  Conversely, her thinking that Tenshi is town 'due to focusing on one suspect' could easily apply to me as well, which strikes me as hypocritical.  There's also the issue where she says that she thinks that the wagon against Meiya is misguided, but does not seem to even tangentially explore the votes behind it (e.g Tenshi)  and the related reasoning; her scumhunting hierarchy (especially regarding Eclair's 'snipes' on others, which feels like a throwaway accusation), doesn't seem to match her words.

These above two issues need to be answered.  Also her history involving her last post here, in which BlackRose was her sole scumread, feels lackluster.  The townread on Meiya and her new scumreads not on BlackRose and Kaori feels as if it was pulled out of a bag made of wait-and-see, a hop, skip and a jump, and they have neither the telegraphing nor the detail behind them to suggest to me otherwise.  She is my preferred lynch for today, followed by Tenshi, Eclair, and the lurkers like BlackRose and Kaori.

[W]

I have no interest in the Martinozzi wagon as I have no immediate problem with her votes or other opinions. I am disappointed in Farina for the follow-up response (how is Martinozzi supposed to further pressure someone that flat-out isn't here?), especially given Farina knows all too well the limits of only having one vote. I am only disappointed and not anything worse because I, like (I imagine) many others, am otherwise happy with her game so far.

Well, when Eclair switched to the Meiya wagon, Irene had already made the post that Eclair thought was showed "ineptness", so it couldn't really be said that Irene "flat-out wasn't there", could it? If she thought Irene's post was useless like she said, she could have poked Irene for elaborations and more content to help acheive a read. Completely ignoring Irene when switching the vote made her look non-commital and gave the impression her Irene vote was a votepark for weak policy reasons, much like her Yuno vote. I don't think this looks like a matter of Eclair not being able to vote two players at once, it comes off more as disconnect, like she doesn't care about reading players aside from her main case.

@Farina: It is indeed fine to go attack the likes of Shana and BlackRose, but her post seems to pat Tenshi on the back for having a silly case rather than for doing something scummy.  I guess it comes down to her not playing an active part in the pressure against others and being content with going after the easy ones which casts ill dread upon me, despite the abundance of content to pick out (unlike my case before). 

Ha. Really? 'cause if your post had been made right before Yuno's instead of when you initially posted it, the only other posts of note to analyze would be Meiya's #52, Kenshin's first post, Maka's #55 and Eclair's #56 - none of which notably impacted your opinions when you switched to Tenshi. If there was an "abundance of content to pick out" when Yuno posted, then the situation wasn't much different from when you first voted Meiya. In fact, the only major change would have been that if your post where you switched to Tenshi is to be believed, your Meiya case would have been invalid.

I've considered your points on Yuno and Tenshi, and I think your accusations of players being narrow-sighted are hogwash. Aside from what I said about Yuno, the only real active wagons when Tenshi voted Meiya were on Meiya and Eclair, and Tenshi had already addressed Eclair's wagon early on. Tenshi not attacking Meiya over Meiya's Eclair vote is a rubbish point when it doesn't affect the quality of Tenshi's case and Eclair's vote on Meiya was similiar. You seem to have rather unrealistic expectations for other people, and it makes your points look like they're being contrived as people squeeze out the problems with your arguments.

I must apologize once more to miss Hinanawi for the grave transgression I have made in not realizing that one of the major qualms I had in regards to her behaviours had, in fact, already been addressed.
##Unvote

Meiya! What kind of woman are you if you don't even have a solid case this far into the day? I'm gonna second Yuno that you seem totally confused and incapable; that was the impression I was getting when I ditched your wagon. You had lots of time to review the thread, how're you gonna get an income if you're not hunting your targets? If you take issue with Eclair, why're you not willing to put what little money you've earned where your mouth is and vote her? This isn't an ordinary battlefield, so you can't do work and slay your enemies without voting them!

Anyway, uh... I admittably don't have anything strong on Meiya aside from her ED1 wagon jump on Eclair, and given that I definitely don't trust Eclair right now, consider my negotiations with Meiya's wagon to be over. ...Still, she should definitely start standing up for herself better if she wants to rake in any gold. Again, I'm agreeing with Yuno that she looks more like clueless town right now, but if she abuses the extra time she requested and waits until the last possible minute to vote like Kaori and BlackRose seem to be doing, then I'm not gonna be happy.

Right now, I'm creeped out by how I'm the only person on Eclair with some sort of consistent pressure on her! Esuna's alright, but BlackRose and Kaori have just been sniping from the background with an outdated vote, and my pegasus Murphy and I aren't very fond of bow users. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up switched over to some other to some other wagon when they return, like they were never aiming at Eclair in the first place. There's little pay in working with the kind of irresponsible clients who can't even be bothered to keep their mercenaries up-to-date, so... I think an ##Unvote, ##Vote Sayaka Miki is in order. Sayaka's points have been exposed as inaccurate as she's responded to Kenshin and I, and her priorities look more contrived and worrying than Eclair's at this point. It helps that I feel pretty good about most of the people voting Sayaka. Support bonuses aren't bad to have, as opposed to the votes on Eclair's wagon, which barely qualify as assistance.

The rest of the possible lynches, though... eh... are there even any of a worthy value?! I haven't bought into any vote on Tenshi so far. I thought Kenshin's points on Sayaka have been solid and agreeable, she didn't look waffly to me at all. Not feeling where Maka is coming from there, sorry!

(cut by sayaka but this wall is already huge, so yeah i'm Gonna Get This Post Out Here)

[Pesco]

Votecount

Eclair Martinozzi: (3) Kaori Kanzaki, Esuna Busy, BlackRose,
Meiya Mitsurugi: (3) Quicksword Irene, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi
Yuno Gasai: (1) , Sayaka Miki
Sayaka Miki: (4) Uesugi Kenshin, Shana, Yuno Gasai, Farina
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Maka Albarn

Not voting: Meiya Mitsurugi

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
~22 hours remaining.
Countdown timer

If the deadline hits and Conq is not here or the thread isn't locked, NO MORE POSTING. No ifs, buts or just-getting-this-post-out-there nonsense.

[Punch Hopper]

[3:46:21] Yukkii is fast asleep again. I'll catch everyone before he wakes up.

May I say that I find miss Martinozzi's comments within this post to be rather unexemplary? In regards to the point that I was, in your words, "posturing about how scummy Farina is, then goes off and votes someone she's questioning." I feel that this is a grave misrepresentation of the events that actually transpired.

Meiya, the paragraph you presented looks like an excellent case on Eclair. Why did you blank unvote and leave?

Regarding Eclair's and Tenshi's reasoning for voting Meiya, I regard both their explanations as either scummy or misguided.  While I suppose logical mistakes in reasoning counts as a relatively popular scumread, I don't think they have addressed the possibility that townies could occasionally overlook something in their construction of cases (personal experience would tell me that I have made these mistakes before), or that scum could care about which townie they want lynched as much as other townies (personal experience counts as well).  Tenshi's vision of a playerbase in this meta consisting only of smart and conscientious heroes and dumb villains strikes me as hopelessly naive to the point of disbelief even to a person such as me, especially when she is supposedly a 1000 year-old celestial.

This applies equally to your persual of Tenshi. You admit that she could be misguided, you haven't addressed that she could have overlooked something in the construction of her case, and she's hopelessly naive. These are reasons she is confused town.
Your unvote of her is simply you realizing the wagon isn't going anywhere.

I suppose murderers will stay as murderers.  First, Yuno's reasons for voting me here could easily apply to Tenshi herself as well; she has also been 'taking only one suspect and riding her for not being capable of answering her correctly'.

No. Tenshi has been trying to be as forthright as possible explaining every detail of what she's doing. There is no reason that could be applicable to voting her because she is town.

Conversely, her thinking that Tenshi is town 'due to focusing on one suspect' could easily apply to me as well, which strikes me as hypocritical. 

That's weird because that's not why I said I think Tenshi is town.

There's also the issue where she says that she thinks that the wagon against Meiya is misguided, but does not seem to even tangentially explore the votes behind it (e.g Tenshi)

Meiya Mitsurugi: (3) Farina, Quicksword Irene, Sayaka Miki

As for the lack of telegraphing sorry for not giving you my day planner. My scum read on 'not Blackrose or Kaori' is you. It's sneaky to avoid saying that when you argue my new scum read feels wrong. Your attempt to start a new wagon right now also isn't going to work, so I suggest you take your vote and put it somewhere besides where you've carefully telegraphed. Your thoughts shouldn't be locked into a pattern on day frigging one.

[Kick Hopper]

If I may add my own thoughts in regards to miss Miki in regards to her latest post. I believe that miss Miki is placing a strange amount on emphasis on how miss Miki feels that miss Gasai's actions were not telegraphed. For one, considering the stage of the game that we are currently in, I believe that to perform untelegraphed actions would be a somewhat common occurrence and wonder how this explicitly espouses the anti-town nature of miss Gasai. Although miss Miki accuses miss Hinanawi of being hypocritical, is miss Miki not much the same way? Miss Miki's argument on how miss Gasai is aligned with forces that wish to bring doom to the town has not been telegraphed either. Miss Miki may attempt to argue otherwise, saying that miss Miki voted for miss Gasai twice during the early stages of the game. However, both of these votes were due to, not to miss Miki's belief that miss Gasai was acting in the best interests of forces that are not town but, her own feelings of jealousy towards the fact that her love is unrequited in contrast to miss Gasai's relationship with her "Yukkie". Much else of what I could say about miss Miki has already been spoken by others and so I shall leave it at that.

##Vote Eclair Martinozzi
I also find miss Martinozzi to be suspicious. I have already stated that I believe miss Martinozzi's arguments against myself to be contradictory and will proceed to say a few more words on the matter. Firstly, I must ask how miss Martinozzi's thoughts on both miss Gasai and miss Irene have changed. Miss Martinozzi first voted for miss Gasai within this post due to miss Gasai's miller claim. The fact that miss Gasai has claimed to be a miller has not changed. Does this mean that your attitude towards miss Gasai has also failed to change? The same can be said of miss Irene who has, from miss Martinozzi's perspective, claimed to be aligned with anti-town forces in this post. There have been no actions to change this fact so this leaves me to wonder why miss Martinozzi would not be voting for one that she believes to have outright claimed to be aligned with forces that work against the town. Miss Martinozzi claims in this post that she wishes not to leave her vote in a place that will serve no purpose however if miss Martinozzi truly believed miss Irene to be aligned with those that are not working towards town's win condition then would the vote not be serving a purpose simply by being upon miss Gasai? I ask why miss Martinozzi was so quick to give up on her vote on miss Gasai.

I have, again, spent too much time idling as I attempted to make this post and have been asked questions by miss Gasai, the answers to which I shall now append to this post. Why did I not place another vote at the time that I removed my vote from miss Hinanawi? This is because I was uncertain of my thoughts in regards to miss Miki and wished to review the evidence available to me once more before deciding to place my vote on either miss Martinozzi or miss Miki.

[Punch Hopper]

That last paragraph was nice and concise. Yukkii would like it the most. (It is spelled Yukkii by the way. Don't make the same mistake again.) I suggest you try to put all your suspicions consisely like that. Your second paragraph is just saying that Eclair is suspicious for not pushing policy lynches when she seems to believe in them. The way you put it is dragging one sentence over way too many sentences. It's also more of a null-tell. Try to explain the misrepping you think she did instead of wondering why she's not pushing policy lynches that no one else is supporting.

[OOO]

Alright, let's actually get down to this post. I suppose I'll just post a reaction to posts as I read them.

43: Post is alright, just slightly dislike the vote

44: Good posting

45: No. Just no. If you have an anti-town role and you are town (miller), you should fully claim when asked so that you do not accidentally disrupt Town's ability to function. Being vague in this situation is anti-town because it's going to distract town

46: Sorry, but you're trying to make everything out of nothing. Seriously, I vote someone ED1 because I vote someone ED1 for whatever reason I want. Seriously, asking me why the person I'm voting is scum at that early stage is just a pointless question that will get nowhere. Just like your 32, trying to force things isn't going to help much, things will progress by themselves. Also, comment on something that's not miller claim. When absolutely nothing else has happened. I voted someone for voting someone for miller claim anyways.

48: Sorry, but what?

first feels fake.

What the hell does that even mean? Miller claim means absolutely nothing, it doesn't excuse them from being scummy and it only makes them a target for standing out. That is all to get from a miller claim.

the second admonishes without giving any insight into what Rose thinks of Maka's alignment.

Because I'm supposed to suddenly get a clear cut decision on if someone is town/scum based on their first post. Oh right, because everyone needs to know how you think of people every single moment? No, filling a post with opinions is just noise. Which means
FoS: Irene

49:

and BlackRose and Meiya (for standing back and laughing at the mistakes of others)

Okay, what? The. Hell. This is just ridiculous. This is overblowing nothing and making it look like something huge and obvious. Basically like Fox News. The only thing I like is the Eclair point but you still earn a FoS Sayaka

51: *Slow clap* That first paragraph mirrors exactly what I think. Seriously, why do you people call "having the same opinion but not being the first one to post it" parroting?!

52: Don't like the appeasement at the start apologizing for voting. Your post reeks of attack one vote another, and your attacks on Farena, well they don't sit well with me.

53: I just realized. Why are people lumping me together with the rest of the Eclair voters considering my reason for voting is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM EVERYONE ELSE. I also take notice how nobody has said exactly how I'm scummy >:|

57: This post looks lazy and doesn't accomplish much. Is Maka a scum read? To put it quite simply: No. If she were, I would have said something. Trying to hard meant to slow down, as trying too hard can be counterproductive. FoS Yuno

60: Fine post. And just for you, I will attempt what I was going to do with my next read.

                                                                                                                                                               
| Sender: BlackRose              |Re: Post 64|
Dis post luks like very pointless noise. i hope u srsly talk about stuff soon.

So yeah, that was gonna get very annoying. On the other hand, I could just slab my post into AoL translator for shits and giggles.

70: ಠ_ಠ
Yet you're voting me for voting someone else. You see how stupid your reason for voting me is? Because that's basically every vote. Ever. And you're very out of the game right now.

Alright, these giant walls of texts on these quest logs are making me sleepy. One cannot stay awake all day playing MMOs! I shall stop off here and finish the quest chain after waking up (provided I'm still not busy IRL).

##Unvote
Vote: Yuno
for now from what I've read so far basically staying away from the main arguements and basically providing nothing so far.

[Punch Hopper]

Hey look the scummy lurking FOE is back at the last minute.

A horrendously rendered Post by Post Analysis.

What did I say about text walls? I can't tell who you're talking about unless I go to every single post you name. Most of the comments don't explain anything. Why is 43 alright? Why is 44 good posting? Why is 45 such a big deal when it's a one line question by Shana asking why a question benefits town? 46 is restating what everyone has said to death, that Maka made alot about nothing, along with saying asking why someone you're voting is scum is a pointless question. 

the second admonishes without giving any insight into what Rose thinks of Maka's alignment.

Because I'm supposed to suddenly get a clear cut decision on if someone is town/scum based on their first post. Oh right, because everyone needs to know how you think of people every single moment? No, filling a post with opinions is just noise. Which means
FoS: Irene

Filling a post with statements like 'trying too hard' which don't give an opinion either way is far worse then what you consider noise. You're FoS'ing someone for the main reason everyone who looked at your post thinks you're scummy. You're going to need more fingers.

In point of fact I could just stop here and say 90% of your reactions to posts are filling a post with pointless opinions to tell people how you think every single moment.

49 doesn't give me the impression you actually read what Sayaka was overblowing. You even take the time to say they made a point you like but you suspect them anyways. This is a throwaway suspicion clustered between your 'real' suspects. Are you scum with Sayaka? 51 doesn't add to any scum hunting.  52 didn't earn an FoS on Meiya, why not, you think her post reaks! I know you're not out of fingers because you pointed one at me later.

53: I just realized. Why are people lumping me together with the rest of the Eclair voters considering my reason for voting is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM EVERYONE ELSE. I also take notice how nobody has said exactly how I'm scummy >:|

What was your reasoning again? Do you still think it was valid? Do you still think Eclair is scummy?

57: This post looks lazy and doesn't accomplish much. Is Maka a scum read? To put it quite simply: No. If she were, I would have said something. Trying to hard meant to slow down, as trying too hard can be counterproductive. FoS Yuno

But you did say something. And we had to take that tiny morsel of information and assume things from it because you were on the fucking moon breeding those hideous fake chocobo things instead of talking about your reads in the mafia.

70: ಠ_ಠ

So is Shana scummy, did you run out of fingers again, is three FoS's the limit now?

I feel like I've been you. I've thought these thoughts and I wrote things that look exactly like that catchup that you just put down. A bunch of weak 'townie suspects' with one insignifigant FoS flung at someone who I couldn't bring myself to completely disagree with. You know why? Because I was scum when I made that post.

##Unvote
##Vote: BlackRose

Get out. I accept no substitiutes this time. Your post is 90% fluff, 10% suspicions with lack of reasoning and 0% you being clear about anything but how angry and offended you really want to sound. I know that if I wanted to vote someone I would just maybe check if they'd made a few more posts after the 70th, possibly ones that cut this mouth vomit that made my reason for voting an untruthful piece of trash.

[Decade]

@Eclair: You keep pushing the single reason of "she says this and then does that" as your main case for a very long time, and it is becoming stale.
Do you have any other reasons for tunneling a Meiya so heavily?
For having that as your main case and nothing new on that topic seems more like she is town that you're trying to dig dirt on.

Judging from what I've seen from Yuno so far, she is likely town.
Irene is still on the level of willing to lynch.

##Unvote
##Vote Eclair

Making another post.

[Faiz]

I'm still getting the feeling that people are cherry-picking my arguments and finding the things they don't like in hating me for being me.  Farina's point of...

Tenshi not attacking Meiya over Meiya's Eclair vote is a rubbish point when it doesn't affect the quality of Tenshi's case and Eclair's vote on Meiya was similiar.

... strikes me as particularly strange since I don't actually remember saying this outright, just that I used it to accentuate what I feel is scummy about Tenshi's short-sightedness on Meiya; e.g case on her has blatant mistakes and Meiya voted for her weaker case and therefore she's scum.  I suppose I would indeed pay her 20,000 gold not to assist in killing me, as befitting of a mercenary, or at least comment directly on the validity of this case (and my current Yuno case) instead of using buzzwords like 'contrived' and what she perceives as me failing to answer Kenshin's queries adequately to fill in the gaps. 

As for his Yuno point, I don't think it has much currency now that I am focusing on her, but Meiya's #52 caused me to change my vote from Meiya to Tenshi.  At the very least, one has to admit that voting for BlackRose and not putting out any other notable scumread at that point in time is lackluster.

More on Yuno in the next post.

[Punch Hopper]

Your case on me is uninteresting and all but I'd prefer to hear what you think about Blackrose and her 'suspicion' of you right now.

[DiEnd]

Farina: Whoops, I had it in my head that you wanted Eclair to pressure BlackRose for some reason. Consider the point cheerfully withdrawn, with additional foot-in-mouth given everything I've said about inattentiveness. :derp:

Gasai: Your vote for BlackRose seems fundamentally incongruous with your thoughts on starting new wagons in #93. Not that I begrudge your vote as a vote because BlackRose's post goes above and beyond failing to inspire (Even ignoring the wall of PBPA, you couldn't go beyond post 70 before stopping and voting? Really? How can you be so sure there's nothing in the next 30 posts afteward that would have made you change your mind on several issues?), but Blackrose qualifies as a "new wagon" as of your vote because every vote on her had vanished at that point. What's up with the disconnect?

Kanzaki: What's wrong with Martinozzi repeating a point that was not interpreted correctly? Why are you asking Martinozzi for other reasons for her Mitsurugi vote when she added onto the case at the bottom of #73?

I enjoy Mitsurugi's vote no longer being on me but the reasons for moving it to Martinozzi instead are just about as unimpressive as the reasons for the prior vote on me.

I think Martinozzi and I need to find a support group like "Our-Cases-Get-Misinterpreted-For-No-Good-Reason Anonymous" or something.

[DiEnd]

EBWOP: Actually, "misinterpreted" may be the wrong word to use in the context of Martinozzi. Maybe "Parts-Of-Our-Posts-Get-Ignored-For-No-Good-Reason Anonymous" would be better. I get the feeling from Kanzaki's opinions on Martinozzi that Kanzaki hasn't actually read Martinozzi's posts at all (see me referencing the bottom of #73) and Mitsurugi asks a few questions of Martinozzi that I was able to answer in my head just from either basic Mafia theory knowledge or my recollections of Martinozzi's previous explanations.

[Faiz]

Yuno, you still have not answered my questions.  If you think that the wagon on Meiya is misguided, then why have you not explored the votes behind the current wagon on her (e.g Eclair, Tenshi) and related reasoning?  Why is Eclair scummy merely for the snipes and not her actual vote?  How does playing my accusation against Tenshi back at me in cancrizan and telling me that she may or may not be misguided explain your town read on her?  Bringing up the fact that I was voting for her two pages ago when I currently have a townread on her is nothing but childish insolence.

This applies equally to your persual of Tenshi. You admit that she could be misguided, you haven't addressed that she could have overlooked something in the construction of her case, and she's hopelessly naive. These are reasons she is confused town.
Your unvote of her is simply you realizing the wagon isn't going anywhere.

Are you seriously suggesting that Tenshi has never made a blatant oversight in Mafia before as town, to the point where she is able to 'overlook' that town could make a mistake?  Fine if you believe that she's misguided and are willing to explain it, but 'oversight' is not sufficient enough a word.

No. Tenshi has been trying to be as forthright as possible explaining every detail of what she's doing. There is no reason that could be applicable to voting her because she is town.

I don't know; I think I have been pretty forthright in what I did not like about Tenshi.  Not sure how the above relates to Tenshi and Eclair's riding of Meiya's answers or their sole focus on her (besides token opinions on me and Kaori), items which you have accused me as being scummy for.

In any case, I'm still not understanding what the fundamental difference between me and Tenshi are in your view, and I believe this is something you must explain instead of dancing around the issue.  You have no need to fret over the placement of my vote however, given the outstanding issues I have with you.  There are still 13-14 hours left in the day and I will switch accordingly when needed to Tenshi (unlikely) or BlackRose/Kaori (active lurkers as of now; Shana's blurb on me in comparison is valid but unsound, enough for me to think him town).  While I can get behind the Eclair wagon due to her more or less sharing the same reasons as Tenshi in tunneling Meiya, I feel that her other points (such as that on Meiya's deflection) and questioning on others are marginally more townie.  I would also not want to lynch Meiya today.

Cut: BlackRose is at the very least anti-town by his own self-admission.  Elaborating much further is low-hanging fruit for self-conceited people.  As with all active lurkers, a viable lynch for today, but I wouldn't want to take his grief seed if he drops one.

[DiEnd]

I never make blatant oversights in Mafia. Anytime it looks like I did is really just Yukari fooling around again.

[Faiz]

EBWOP: "Not sure how the above relates to Tenshi's and Eclair's riding of Meiya's answers or their sole focus on her (besides token opinions on me and Kaori), items which you have accused me as being scummy for. "

[Conqueror]

Omg My Internet is Dying Votecount

Eclair Martinozzi: (3) Esuna Busy, Meiya Mitsurugi, Kaori Kanzaki
Meiya Mitsurugi: (3) Quicksword Irene, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi
Yuno Gasai: (2) Sayaka Miki, BlackRose
Sayaka Miki: (3) Uesugi Kenshin, Shana, Farina
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Maka Albarn
BlackRose: (1) Yuno Gasai


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
~14 hours remaining.
Countdown timer

Kaori Kanzaki receives a retroactive prod.
Esuna Busy has been prodded.
Remember; no majority = no lynch.

[Ryuki]

In regards to the point that I was, in your words, "posturing about how scummy Farina is, then goes off and votes someone she's questioning." I feel that this is a grave misrepresentation of the events that actually transpired.

And yet it is not! You first dedicate a large portion of your post to Farina, and your only bit related to Tenshi is as follows:

Miss Hinanawi, if I am understanding correctly, your current vote is placed on somebody that you believe to be putting their best efforts into this game solely for that reason? Do you have any other reasoning for voting for miss Alburn?

Will you insist that you are not voting someone you are merely questioning in light of your earlier assault on Farina?

[quote[Miss Martinozzi also states that: "This isn't enough reason to vote Tenshi over Farina for me and I want her to make that abundantly clear." I also find the notion that miss Martinozzi feels that she has the authority to determine what appears to be ill-motivated behaviour to others to be laughable. Especially when one considers the fact that miss Martinozzi complains within the very same post about how she cannot do anything if others do not agree with her viewpoints in regards to miss Irene's behaviours.[/quote]

I don't see how these follow each other. You still have not answered why Tenshi over Farina, and are deflecting and dancing around the point by saying I do not have authority to decide what is and is not Galette behaviour. I'm Captain of the Knights, and like any other individual here I am skilled enough to detect behaviour counter to our victory. I will assert people are Galette spies when I see them, and I am looking at one right now. That I say I cannot press a case on Irene based on a lack of support does not have anything to do with asserting that you are scum for voting Tenshi over Farina in spite of having more reason to vote Farina.

There is also the following audacious statement from miss Martinozzi: "She isn't excusing her own behavior,". I do not know where your values lie, but I take full responsibility for my actions and therefore will not do more than provide an explanation so that others may make their own judgements about my behaviour. If others believe that I have taken measures that appear not to be aimed towards achieving the town's win condition, so be it. That is their decision to make, not mine.

You are still not answering to it. You are not explaining why Tenshi was more scummy than Farina, you were flailing around pointing at others going 'but look, they are bad too.' That isn't taking responsibility for your actions, that's hiding behind someone else!

This is because I believe that, depending on how miss Farena answers, she can be redeemed in contrast to miss Hinanawi who has done little but throw her vote wildly with very weak reasoning. Having said that, I would like to direct your attention to miss Hinanawi once more and point out that she has failed to answer my question in regards to her reasons for voting miss Alburn.

There is no reason to believe Tenshi could not redeem herself, since your 'case' on her to that point was a clarification of her case on Irene. It is a blatant distortion of the true events that have transpired to claim your vote at the time was anything more than that, and quickly building on a case after the vote isn't something a real knight of Biscotti would do! Only Galette spies would brazenly leap in to accuse someone and only afterwards try to find evidence to support it. Or maybe the right word here is 'fabricate' evidence.

As for why I would not have placed my vote upon you if I had noticed that there were more votes than I had originally anticipated on you, it is because I believed that miss Alburn and miss Busy had made valid arguments which I wished to display my support towards. As stated before, I had not noticed that miss Rose had already performed this action and made my own to be redundant. How exactly does this behaviour demonstrate my unwillingness to work towards the town win condition?

Because you voted me to 'show support' for their arguments, not because you thought I was scum apparently. If you thought I was a Galette spy your vote would have been utterly valid in spite of the number of votes on me. Why didn't you use your vote to vote someone who you thought was Galette spy and wanted to quickly reach that threshold of 7 votes? Why would me being closer to 7 votes be some reason to shirk away? If I was really a Galette spy, as you now claim, you should have wanted to push me there immediately. Admitting your vote was only to 'show support' and wasn't at all a vote because you thought I was Galette scum is only indicative that you were not voting scum.

Noting for now that Gasai cheers on my bandwagon while staying off it herself. Strikes me as the thing cowardly spies would resort to.

Firstly, I must ask how miss Martinozzi's thoughts on both miss Gasai and miss Irene have changed. Miss Martinozzi first voted for miss Gasai within this post due to miss Gasai's miller claim. The fact that miss Gasai has claimed to be a miller has not changed. Does this mean that your attitude towards miss Gasai has also failed to change? The same can be said of miss Irene who has, from miss Martinozzi's perspective, claimed to be aligned with anti-town forces in this post. There have been no actions to change this fact so this leaves me to wonder why miss Martinozzi would not be voting for one that she believes to have outright claimed to be aligned with forces that work against the town. Miss Martinozzi claims in this post that she wishes not to leave her vote in a place that will serve no purpose however if miss Martinozzi truly believed miss Irene to be aligned with those that are not working towards town's win condition then would the vote not be serving a purpose simply by being upon miss Gasai? I ask why miss Martinozzi was so quick to give up on her vote on miss Gasai.

Your entire argument on why I'm a spy is bogus! Are you really going to say I'm a Galette spy because I didn't stick to ED1 cases? Gasai  is still a miller per her claim, but my vote on her was not for being a miller alone, and the fact people are twisting it into that strikes me as a convenient ignorance to the truth of matters. I clearly stated I voted Gasai for her contrived reason in voting whatsherface over the confirmation post, which struck me as a vote that held something related to the game in it and I took it serious as it deserved to be. I can talk about Gasai but I'd rather do so after I finish this retort, because it's lengthy as-is.

Voting someone without being able to convince people of why their vote belongs with yours is not at all helpful, and saying it would be so is extremely naive.

[Ryuki]

In writing this I find it scummy of Meiya to actually be voting me over not pursuing my ED1 cases again, so I will mention it again.

If I didn't mention Gasai during any of my previous posts, it's because I didn't find anything in her posts that really felt scummy enough to talk about. Complaining I do not jump on every little bit and try to spin it into scum is naive and you need to pick up training again. That is not how you catch Galette spies.

I think Gasai is scummy for cheerleading my wagon and trying to push Meiya onto it, the former shown here and the latter linked in my previous post. Saying you don't want to join a wagon because 2/4 are scum reads while simultaneously saying I'm suspicious for 'sniping' people strikes me as some spoony bard-esque maneuver where you add fuel to a wagon while staying off it yourself for some contrived reason.

She sounds confused and people are attacking her for confusion rather then scumminess.

I fiercely disagree that Meiya is only confused, and that anyone voting her is doing it because she is confused rather than scummy. Her actions do not put her at the forefront of warriors and she is cowardly hiding at the backrow, spewing off some weak nonsense at the end of her unvote about how outside of me Esuna is mention-worthy for tunneling on me and that Miki is 'of interest' but no explanation why. If Esuna is scummy for tunneling on me, why is Meiya herself not scummy? Why in fact is Esuna scummy for tunneling on me if Meiya thinks I am Galette scum?

Her stances do not mix with her observations. How is this 'confusion?'

Your second paragraph is just saying that Eclair is suspicious for not pushing policy lynches when she seems to believe in them. The way you put it is dragging one sentence over way too many sentences. It's also more of a null-tell. Try to explain the misrepping you think she did instead of wondering why she's not pushing policy lynches that no one else is supporting.

I don't really understand your motive in first telling Meiya her case on me is 'excellent', and then telling her how to better make that case while earlier saying you didn't want to jump my wagon because 2/4 were scumreads. Why are you assisting Meiya onto a wagon you yourself don't want to commit to?

I think Meiya is worse than Gasai but find myself increasingly drawn to the idea that Gasai is actually Galette scum trying to capitalize on Meiya here.

@Eclair: You keep pushing the single reason of "she says this and then does that" as your main case for a very long time, and it is becoming stale.
Do you have any other reasons for tunneling a Meiya so heavily?
For having that as your main case and nothing new on that topic seems more like she is town that you're trying to dig dirt on.

Pay attention, I updated it long before your post. Your bandwagon hop over a blatant misrepresentation is weak. Did anyone here complete Knight Academy?

[Ryuki]

EBWOP: Actually, "misinterpreted" may be the wrong word to use in the context of Martinozzi. Maybe "Parts-Of-Our-Posts-Get-Ignored-For-No-Good-Reason Anonymous" would be better. I get the feeling from Kanzaki's opinions on Martinozzi that Kanzaki hasn't actually read Martinozzi's posts at all (see me referencing the bottom of #73) and Mitsurugi asks a few questions of Martinozzi that I was able to answer in my head just from either basic Mafia theory knowledge or my recollections of Martinozzi's previous explanations.

I don't know if you're buddying up to me but hell, I need some sort of ally now that that good-for-nothing hero's returned to his own boring world. Let's make that squad.

[Punch Hopper]

@Tenshi: You're absolutely right, I shouldn't be trying to start another wagon this late in the day.  I just saw my top suspect post a terrible post and my vote reflex triggered.  With that said, can we lynch her?  Please...?  If people start going back in that direction I'll join back in.

##Unvote
##Vote Sayaka Miki

If you think that the wagon on Meiya is misguided, then why have you not explored the votes behind the current wagon on her (e.g Eclair, Tenshi) and related reasoning?

I have looked at them.  I wish Irene would post more, but her reaction to my  claim still strikes me as town.  I think that scum would be less likely to defend a town claim with their own as well as limiting their fake claim options further down the line.  So I have not found her worth pursuing.  Tenshi looks townie because her scumhunting looks genuine and I think she's been asking good question and I can follow her flow of logic easily.  Eclair is getting a pass because the wagon on her is one of the worst things I have ever seen.  I agree with Farina that at the time she was really the only one with any reasoning (since then Meiya has joined it, and I don't have a problem with her vote either).  I don't see how I could look at this wagon anymore closely than I have.

Why is Eclair scummy merely for the snipes and not her actual vote?

Are you really asking me this? :|  Yes, I didn't explicitly state that I didn't like her vote.  I thought that saying Meiya was town made that obvious.  When I decided that the active people looked really town I started looking at the people lurking and the people posting enough to not be called out for lurking, but still aren't doing anything interesting.  Eclair fit the latter category, which is the main reason I find her scummy.  I don't think voting someone I think is town is enough to declare someone scum, since town can do that too, so I focused on the other reasons.  Why is this scummy?

How does playing my accusation against Tenshi back at me in cancrizan and telling me that she may or may not be misguided explain your town read on her?

I have no idea what you're asking here.  I explained why Tenshi is town above.  If you're referring to the patting on the head thing, yes, that's exactly what I was doing.  I was patting her on the head for being a silly townie making a silly vote.

I currently have a townread on her

Then why are you chiding me for having a town read on her?  Seriously, the entire thing with Tenshi just feels like "why me."  You seem to be interpreting "focusing on her suspect" as "tunneling" or something.  Yes, Tenshi hasn't had that many suspects.  I'm okay with that.  She's pursuing her main one in a way I find townie (even if I think it's misguided) and she comments on all the other wagons and a lot of other people as well.  I know exactly where she stands on these wagons.  I don't feel the same way about you.  That is why you are scummy.

So yeah, still not liking Sayaka.

@Eclair: She reads as confused town to me because of her ridiculous paranoia regarding Farina, and she just generally reads like she has no idea what she's doing to me and doesn't seem to have any confidence in what she's doing.  She just doesn't read like someone that has scum buddies to me, and most of your case revolves around the things that read like townie paranoia and confusion to me.

I think that covers everything.  If I missed something let me know, I'm feeling a little out of it right now.

[Punch Hopper]

Hm...As hesitant as I am to start another wagon this late I really want BlackRose dead.  So if you're here could you say so and state whether or not you'd be willing to go for a Rose lynch?  And if you're not state why so I can convince you otherwise?  I feel like I'm letting her off the hook too easy just because the day is close to ending, but I don't want to risk a no lynch if I can't get enough support.

I think the  case on her is pretty clear, but if there are any parts that don't make sense ask and I'll elaborate.

[capt. h]

Omg Conq's Internet is Dying Votecount

Eclair Martinozzi: (3) Esuna Busy, Meiya Mitsurugi, Kaori Kanzaki
Meiya Mitsurugi: (3) Quicksword Irene, Eclair Martinozzi, Tenshi Hinanawi
Yuno Gasai: (2) Sayaka Miki, BlackRose
Sayaka Miki: (4) Uesugi Kenshin, Shana, Farina, Yuno Gasai
Uesugi Kenshin: (1) Maka Albarn
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

~11 hours remaining.
Countdown timer

Remember; no majority = no lynch.

[Punch Hopper]

Sorry if that wasn't specific enough. Could people answer NOW instead of 5 minutes before the night phase? Thanks.

[DiEnd]

So I managed to find a very short break in between heavenly commitments. I haven't been able to properly go over Martinozzi's three-hit combo there, but I can at least weigh in on the prospect of a BlackRose lynch. As of right now, I wouldn't object to it and could be convinced to join, but I would really rather not pull off of Mitsurugi until I see something from her that actually satisfies me (or it becomes clear her lynch will not happen).