Author Topic: Moriya Shrine Mafia II (Day 5) (Read 42211 times)

Mr_Bob · « **Reply #120 on:** January 22, 2011, 09:00:16 AM »

Affinity: Sure there was probably more personal bias than I'd like to admit in my first vote on Pesco. Last game I played with him, I found that the playstyle rubs me the wrong way. Aggressively painting someone as scum can easily lead to mislynches, and one can easily get away with purposely misleading others with it because they are "scum-hunting". Also, negative attention is not that bad, it helps learn trial by fire in the least.

In hindsight, it is obvious Schz would have been a more logical first vote, but at the time Pesco was asking more than he was: Ended up focusing on Pesco more, and Schz went under the Bobdar.

I'd imagine it seems like I'm changing my reasons for voting Pesco, but I am attempting to lay bare the entirety of my thought process, and every little thing that registers to me regarding that.

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #121 on:** January 22, 2011, 10:00:40 AM »

Oh for the

3 pages? I go sleep for a night and there are 3 pages? What is this I don't even.

I'm going to do my best to keep this consise because the last thing we need is more walls and more signs of the attitude Hourai is starting to give off. Being an ass does not improve your chances of finding scum.

OK, so looking at people.

Bob first because my vote's on him right now.

Quote from: Bob

Allow me to elucidate, aggressive would refer to me regarding the pursuit of Bard outing additional information; not implying to being passive through the entirety of the game.

"So just because I'm going to be passive on this one point doesn't mean I'm going to be passive elsewhere, guys! Promise!"
Town do not do shit half-heartedly. Unlike scum they are not trying to produce a case they know is false. They are looking to make something genuine, something believable. Also unlike scum they aren't quite as frightened of getting lynched - because they know they're Town and thus it's wrong to lynch them - and thus Townies should be taking risks and being aggressive rather than letting scum control the tempo of the game.

Quote from: Bob

Rou: Let's serious up, part of what I said was to get out of random voting, figured asking about it would attract enough attention.

Because making a passing reference to something everyone had already seen at this point and not pressing further was sure to produce a useful amount of response. Of course.

Quote from: Bob

Pesco's and Huhwhat's reasoning is effectively the same. Their points are valid, but, not necessarily correct, I could be the scum they say I am, or I could just be a misguided town with a strike against me.

"So I admit that their cases make sense, but really! I'm not scum! I swear!"

Quote from: Bob

negative attention is not that bad

Except that Town would RATHER PAY ATTENTION TO SCUM THAN HAVE TIME WASTED ON THEMSELVES?

Other players of note that have emerged since my last post!

ReV makes me want to cry. 'Sup guys, NOT GOING TO CONTRIBUTE AT ALL TODAY BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE ALL STUPID'.

Schezo is a headache in that he makes no sense. The problem I have is that there's nothing outright malicious in what he's said - it's derp rather than scummy - and yet four votes fell on him in the space of about 20 posts, one of which was Bob suddenly jumping away from his new OMGUS Pesco case. Compared to Bob, it definitely carries a bigger feel of scum-panic-wagon.

@Affinity:

Quote from: Affinity

Roukanken also seems rather wonky; he mildly defends huhwhat even though he hasn't replied to VgT yet here and arbitrarily decides that newbies would only go for agressive role-fishing as if all newbies were one and the same, which smells of easy jumping. He even admits himself that such a rolefish would be pointless in the first place... so how is it actively scummy?

Firstly, 'he's scummy for disagreeing with a line of thought because the target hasn't agreed first!' is a line of reasoning I don't like. Bad logic is bad logic, and if I have a problem with it I don't see why I shouldn't bring it up right away rather than waiting on HW to respond.
Secondly, see what I said above to Bob about being aggressive and being passive. Townies should be basically doing everything whole-hearted because unlike scum they have nothing to hide. If Bob wanted to know about Bard's role honestly, I can't help but think he'd have been more open about it rather than 'Oh btw Bard what's with the whole remilia thi-oh, hey, I'm getting bandwagoned! Never mind.'
Finally, there's always the obvious point of 'scum wants to clog up Town's thought process with useless information and arguing'. Bard's role, again, is a nulltell, but it's out-of-the-ordinary enough that scum could potentially start a stupid argument over it which ends up solving just about nothing.
Hell, in general, I don't like the holier-than-thou attitude of your post. Just the whole 'oh btw all you people who are talking so far are stupid for not considering the case well enough' feel.

Other people who stand out to me? PX for opportunistic jump onto Schezo, Hourai for being the 4th on the wagon and generally serving to flare up tempers [at least my own]. In general I'm convinced the Schezo wagon has bad roots, and I really don't think Schezo's derp is as bad as what other people have done today.

This'll probably be my last post before deadline, so I'm sticking with my vote on Bob.

Mr_Bob · « **Reply #122 on:** January 22, 2011, 10:31:13 AM »

Before reposing, should be up by nightfall, I'd like to look a little more into Schz. He hasn't really said much else about anyone other than me, and has not responded to others' prods at him. He initially voted for Bob because I brought up Bard's role and because he thought I would be a liability to town. Pesco, Bard, Huh all came up with similar thoughts, and it isn't unlikely he could have arrived at this conclusion on his own. The predicting a rush for time though

Quote from: Inaba Tewi on January 21, 2011, 04:21:15 PM

The day will likely end in a mad dash for the biggest wagon.

Quote from: Schezo on January 21, 2011, 06:27:09 PM

since the day is nearing an end and we don't have much to work with still.

is something I really don't like. Town shouldn't be rushed. The fact Schz incorporates this line of thought would lend weight to his post is not being original, and would be his first strike. Schz has not addressed this, nor has responded to questions, and has mostly been tunneling on me.
From this side of the Berlin Wall, Schezo is what makes me most suspicious.

Cut by Rou: Relax. As town I took a risk, HuhWhat and Bard's "Hmmm" battle was not clear enough, maybe any public aspect of role would have been something benign enough the Bard would have been willing to share. As Town, I have the least starting information, checking for something small would add to what I know, and would hopefully start generating conversation. And I still don't think negative attention is bad, if enough of a stink is raised, you can see who passed gas in later days.

Affinity · « **Reply #123 on:** January 22, 2011, 12:24:26 PM »

@Bob:

How is bad advice scummy? It's not as if townies can't give bad advice, and it's not as if everyone will follow it. Also, how are you not tunneling on Schezo as well?

---

Won't be around for the deadline, but in any case, I'm quite torn between the two. Bob could have made a case on Schezo before I voted, but he merely just voted pesco first, shrugged it off with too many interesting but ineffectual and contradictory reasons after the fact and joined a proceeding bandwagon.for mostly unoriginal reasons (the post above mine is original but does not make sense). Schezo went unto the Bob bandwagon copying pesco's reasons, but then turned around after Bob made that votechange with an insight I think rings true. I don't think defending himself would do any good despite what Hourai and Bob seem to be saying; the fact is already done, so why challenge it at all? His strengthening of his vote using Bob's post was pretty good in my opinion and better than any 'defense'. Furthermore, there's the thing about PX and Hourai easily jumping onto Schezo for easy jumping onto Bob, which is very stupid.

So even though Schezo sort of sinned first, I'll go with Bob as my vote, due to the above changes throughout today. Hopefully this means that he's at L-1.

##Unvote
##Vote: Bob

reVelske · « **Reply #124 on:** January 22, 2011, 01:17:44 PM »

Quote from: VgameT on January 22, 2011, 06:57:04 AM

reVelske: uh no seriously "you're all idiots and I have nothing to say" is not helpful, if you're unwilling to make a useful post or even give an opinion on the current vote leaders you are probably scum hth

I have to sleep, you know, and it's the god damn weekend, let the man get up at 12 and enjoy his day a little at least?

Quote from: Schezo on January 22, 2011, 02:27:57 AM

Now from what reVelske said just now is curious because he decides to not do anything at all to aid the town in trying to get some actual discussion going that will prove useful later on.

Oh how you exaggerate so elegantly, my dear. I decided not to do anything? At all? Curious? Is it really? I did say I'm observing, I'm no fan of Day One turd-pelting (aka "scum hunting" for day one as some people would like to think it is), as much as it helps to get things going and promote discussions, I have no desire to join in and would prefer to have something more solid to stand on before I try ~~give people shit~~ speak my mind. If you enjoy arguing shit, do continue, it is, as said, beneficial for the town to some degree, but don't expect everyone to want to join in.

And my opinion will come when I see fit.

Quote from: VgameT on January 22, 2011, 07:07:19 AM

it is not helpful for town players to die, unless you are not part of the town

Yes it is, less players in game = higher chance of getting scum next day, this is the first day, the chance of finding a scum is absolutely minimal unless the scums are utter retards, only undesirable outcome would be if we hit a PR.

Quote from: VgameT on January 22, 2011, 02:28:58 AM

that is not how you play mafia, unless you are bad

That is not how YOU play mafia, perhaps, how I play it is for me to decide, and considering my own track records, I'd say your definition of "bad" needs to be revise.

Nonetheless, I see absolutely no merit in all the accusations of Bob's "rolefishing" and passiveness, neither with those against his voting actions. On the other hand, I can't say I enjoy Schezo's posts, who seems to be trying hard to soun pro-town whilst adding diddly squat. As much as I would throw him a vote, he did say he was "new", and I have a personal policy of not assist lynching anyone new to the game unless I'm shitsure they are scum, soooo... *slouches back*

reVelske · « **Reply #125 on:** January 22, 2011, 01:19:44 PM »

^ Accidentally edited for grammar (and there are still grammar issues), habits, apologies.

Pesco · « **Reply #126 on:** January 22, 2011, 01:56:34 PM »

Pls vote yourself rev kthnx

reVelske · « **Reply #127 on:** January 22, 2011, 02:07:23 PM »

I like my vote being on PX because he actually defended me, I don't need a fanclub.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #128 on:** January 22, 2011, 02:48:58 PM »

Fourth Count of Day One

Schezo (L-4) Inaba Tewi, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, PhoeniX Wrong, Bob, Hanged Hourai
Hanged Hourai (L-7) Schezo
Robotic Doll.S (L-6) NeoSerela, PheoniX Wrong, Huh what
PheoniX Wrong (L-6) Huh what, VgameT, Affinity, reVelske
Bob (L-1) Roukanken, Inaba Tewi, huh what, Schezo, VgameT, Affinity
Bardiche (L-7} PheoniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-7) Robotic Doll.S
Affinity(L-7) ]Robotic Doll.S
Huh What (L-6) Bardiche
NeoSerela (L-7) Hanged Hourai
Inaba Tewi (L-7) Bob

13 Alive, 7 to lynch
Bob is current at L-1
2.5 Hours Left.
Also, a Gentle reminder to always use the Reply button found at the bottom of top of every page each time you need to add something, including grammar.

Pesco · « **Reply #129 on:** January 22, 2011, 03:19:05 PM »

@mod: The nonvotes are impossible to tell apart from the votes in your vote count. Use italics, underline or strikethrough only pls.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #130 on:** January 22, 2011, 05:41:49 PM »

"Bu-b-b-but, Mistress! You said I could relax!"
Remilia shook her head. "But you've relaxed too much. I'm afraid it's time for you to return home." And with that, Bob was sent back to the Scarlet Devil Mansion with rather little fanfare. "...Wait a minute! Why are you using my name?" Remilia shouted in shock. "Dammit, Kanako!"
"That's 'Dammit, Lady Kanako!' to you. Minus two Charisma."
Remilia Fumed a little.

Bob was lynched, and therefore sent home. He was Hong Meiling, Vanilla Townie.
It is now Night 1. Those with actions, please submit them.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #131 on:** January 23, 2011, 06:30:53 PM »

Last night, Inaba Tewi who was actually Hatate Himekaido, Vanilla Townie was killed by the Mafia.

"Now, you lucky survivors, get the chance to take out a lucky Shrine Fortune" A Shelf of many cubbyholes with green and blue tags hanging out of them is wheeled into the front of the Shrine. "Everyone who's still in the game, come on up and pull out a fortune! Who knows? One of you might be really lucky!"

"But first, a Message from the wonderful and lovable Bob, who is no longer with us today."
"No harm; No foul. Still have much to learn. Remember to have fun along the way."

Remilia was the first to step up. She pulls out a fortune briskly and charismatically, and read it aloud.
"Double Lucky!" It read. "Your vote counts twice for this day phase."
The others drew back. It seemed this fortune would be another wrench thrown into the works.
Huh what went next, and pulled out his fortune.
"Double Lucky!" It read. "Your vote counts twice for this day phase."
Huh what was confused, but took some solace from the fact that his vote would not easily be drowned out. Roukanken went up next, and pulled out another fortune.
"Double Lucky!" It read. "Yo(ry

...Everyone had pulled out a fortune, and much to Lady Kanako's shock and dismay, they were all the same one.

"W...Well then! With ... 22 *grk* Votes in play, it takes 12 votes to lynch. Or in other words, with 11 People in play, it takes 6 to Lynch."

Later that day, Lady Kanako would be seen hitting Lady Suwako with a rolled up newspaper shouting "MAKE. SURE. THEY. ARE. ALL. DIFFERENT."

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Day ends January 26th, at 1:30 p.m. EST

Serela · « **Reply #132 on:** January 23, 2011, 07:34:50 PM »

Stuff came up, and I do not have the time nor mental power to commit to playing Mafia right now. I have to replace out.

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #133 on:** January 23, 2011, 10:29:07 PM »

And now for something completely different.

##Vote: reVelske

He was around at the end of the day, and yet he didn't give two shits about the conversation that had taken up the entire day. What does he do instead? Dumps his vote on PX where it'll do absolutely nothing.

The other person I'm looking awkwardly at after D1 is Hourai. Spends pretty much the entire day tunnelling Schezo insanely hard, and Pesco had dumped a suspicion vote on him shortly preceding the night kill [true, potentially circumstantial, which is why my vote is currently on reV].

I'm still thinking Schezo is Town. At the very least, he's not done anything that I wouldn't write up as being more than just derpy, but now D2 has hit I'd hope to see more opinions from the people who've been quiet like him. [Save Neo, hope things work out :<]

reVelske · « **Reply #134 on:** January 23, 2011, 10:46:56 PM »

Well, your conversation was shit, you people attacked Bob for the apparent "rolefishing" when all he did was show curiosity over the fact that single role was made public, and some accused him of being passive simply because he did not make a RvS vote, now it is somehow my problem that I did not want to jump in something as unwarranted as that? PX vote was a RvS vote, and I have reasoned why I do not wish to jump on either of the wagons and why I have no interesting in flinging shit at people (especially when I don't even have any meta to work off considering I'm still relatively new to the board), sooo... deal with it?

reVelske · « **Reply #135 on:** January 23, 2011, 10:54:36 PM »

And hey look, Bardiche actually posted less than me and also did not have his vote on the wagons, but that clearly did not warrant any precious attention from you, ysoselective?

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #136 on:** January 23, 2011, 10:56:07 PM »

Quote

Pesco had dumped a suspicion vote on him shortly preceding the night kill

So? VgT and I were pressuring Hourai as well and IIRC I even said I wanted to vote Hourai, but we're still alive. NK analysis is silly, there are a number of other reasons Pesco could have died as well. I don't really understand why you're going there.

Will post something more substantial later, I'm a bit tied up as is but wanted to say this because that part of Rou's post kind of bugged me.

Doll.S CUBE · « **Reply #137 on:** January 23, 2011, 11:40:53 PM »

Rev your right in that Bardiche posted less then you but then you did kinda make yourself a target in actually saying you'll be lurking or something like that, where else Bardiche could be gone for other reasons other then lurking like Neo was.

Doll.S CUBE · « **Reply #138 on:** January 23, 2011, 11:55:18 PM »

Also, I wonder why Whitemage mentioned Remilia (Bardiche), huhwhat and Roukan in the post specifically...Were they randomly chosen?

reVelske · « **Reply #139 on:** January 24, 2011, 12:14:44 AM »

TBH, there's a difference between choosing to observe and comment only when see fit and choosing to "lurk", buuuuuuut I suppose lurk is lurk regardless of the nature and how one reasons it, in that sense, I find it mildly annoying how Roukan chose to single me out when there are on others are on the same boat.

And Bard has been on the forum towards the end of Day One.

And considering how whitemage wrote that everyone pulled out their fortune, one would be wise to assume it is random and not look too deep into the flavoured text.

Vibri · « **Reply #140 on:** January 24, 2011, 12:38:00 AM »

Oh my fuckin god I've typed a post out with my god damn thumbs twice now and both times I've gotten logged out before I finished so it just redirects me to the login page and then the post is gone aarrrrghhghhhghgh

I'm not doin it again so I'll make it when I'm on lunch in an hour but for now here's this

vote: reVelske. you're bad, get dead

Hanged Hourai · « **Reply #141 on:** January 24, 2011, 01:35:11 AM »

I have to apologize for my weak D1 play. This is the last time I?m going to do this, but I?m going to pull out my newb card. Everyone here is more experienced than me and more familiar, playing hardball. I?m not going to be weak like that anymore.
With that said:

##Vote: Schezo

This entire time, we?ve seen him defenseless. And you guys just write it off as him being a derp/confused. AND MAYBE THAT?S WHAT HE WANTS. He could be a scumbag hiding behind that as a shield, and you guys just fall straight for it. It?s been working perfectly so far.
His derpiness is the perfect natural defense.

And now, if indeed Schezo is the scum I think him to be, then that means that at least one of the people who?ve just said that he?s a derp and defended him could be scum themselves. They go along with the whole confused gimmick and the rest of us just believe it.

If we can reach a consensus on Schezo, and he indeed proves to be scum like I think, then we can assume at least one of his defenders is also scum.

This plan has the capability to snuff out a scum and identify others.

I'm town. I have nothing to hide. And I am going to stick with my opinion until proven otherwise. No more weak sauce for me. I am voting with conviction, baby!

*Hanged Hourai steps up his game

Vibri · « **Reply #142 on:** January 24, 2011, 01:39:25 AM »

woo OK

reV: You've done absolutely nothing the entire game. Day 1 you did nothing until people called you out on it, then you went "you're all idiots" and continued doing nothing. When pressed you went "what I meant was, you're all fucking idiots, and I'm not saying anything until I feel like it." Well done! Saying that day 1 arguments are helpful and then saying that you're not going to participate in them does not make you look smart. It actually just makes you look extremely scummy.

So you thought that the reasons everyone put forward weren't enough to justify a lynch of Bob or Schezo, but you didn't actually provide any kind of alternative, or do anything to convince people to look at other players. Basically, you were fine with anyone getting lynched, as long as you weren't attached. That's also extremely scummy! Coming back day 2 and pointing out why you thought the case against Bob was not valid after he already flipped town is not the masterstroke you think it is.

We're into Day 2 and you have not made a serious vote for anyone, or stated your opinion on any living player. All your posts are responses to people calling you out on your weak play. What have you done to help the town this game? When are you going to start playing mafia?

Quote

That is not how YOU play mafia, perhaps, how I play it is for me to decide, and considering my own track records, I'd say your definition of "bad" needs to be revise.

well considering your track record this game I'd say you're bad lmfao peace

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #143 on:** January 24, 2011, 02:03:42 AM »

Got some time now, so here we go.

First things first, despite the pressure I put on him yesterday, I'm beginning to think of Hourai as town, because I cannot possibly think of a reason scum would want to park their vote on Schezo at that point if they knew Bob would flip town. While it could be so that scum!Hourai wouldn't get caught being on a townie wagon, the fact that he was also pushing the Schezo wagon to an extent that it looked like it could possibly tie up with and then surpass Bob's, this seems rather unlikely. His actions are still kind of argh, though, and I would appreciate it if he at least responded to my question to him at the bottom of this post.

Anyway. I really really do not like reVelske for cheerleading the Schezo wagon at the end of the day yet giving him a pass just for being a newbie, and also not providing any alternatives either even though he hated the Bob case as well. The Bob part specifically comes off as scum trying to get townie cred for being against a popular townie wagon, except it does not work because reV did not explain why he disapproved of the case or even say anything against it until Bob was almost guaranteed to be the day's lynch, which is argh and does nothing to serve town. Another problem with reVelske is that while everybody complained about his lack of contribution D1, even today he still has not provided anything worthwhile about who he thinks we should lynch and is only focusing on how bad he thinks D1 was. Stop living in the past and start hunting scum.

##Vote reVelske

(Fake Edit: Okay, so it turns out VgT pretty much covered most of what I've been wanting to say about Velske. <_< Going to show my work and keep the paragraph above anyway to at least be more specific than "I agree hurr durr".)

Additionally, Schezo's actions from day 1 look a lot worse with Bob's flip, since he did indeed help certify a townie wagon as the day's lynch fairly early on. I'm not too sure why Rou is reading him entirely as a derp (this is essentially a request to Rou for a better explanation). It does not help that a lot of Schezo's opinions from day 1 came off as parroting, so I would like to at least see him to post something today that is not a regurgitation of another person's words.

By the way, everyone is cutting Bardiche way too much slack in my opinion. His only post D1 was voting me for... rather shaky reasons which I already defended against, and then he never came back to respond to the defense. I would appreciate if he could at least explain his motivation for his vote, because his case honestly did not flow that well to me (though this might have just been because I was the target of it).

Hanged Hourai · « **Reply #144 on:** January 24, 2011, 02:11:03 AM »

Quote from: huh what on January 24, 2011, 02:03:42 AM

this post.

Like I said earlier, my D1 play was weak and sucky, which I hope you excuse due to me being new. I was doing actions without thinking of the implications.

But now I have more faith in myself and my actions, so I'll be better from now on.
(also, I found the mafia wiki :V)

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #145 on:** January 24, 2011, 02:14:52 AM »

Don't really know how to respond, but I'll be holding you to that.

Vibri · « **Reply #146 on:** January 24, 2011, 02:19:25 AM »

I don't think you get to write off an entire day's worth of posts like that but you're free to try whatever I guess

Schezo · « **Reply #147 on:** January 24, 2011, 02:20:53 AM »

Ok Hourai since you are still so adamant on tunneling in on me, let me say that you still haven't posted a valid reason for why you thing I'm scum. You've just want me to defend myself on stuff that already happened and what will get us nowhere, after jumping onto a bandwagon for no reason you decide that it will be good to just pursue me without even looking at how reVelske is acting really suspicious because he still hasn't contributed anything to this game. Then while you argued with Tewi you didn't give any convictions then , other than the weak one you're giving me right now. After that, Huh What called you out on this even further and you haven't even addressed it.

jeez cut by like 3 people

And at this point I can't really say anything about reVelske then what has already been said and it does look rather suspicious. However I still see Hourai as acting really odd and didn't give an answer to that question IMO.

##Vote: Hanged Hourai

Hanged Hourai · « **Reply #148 on:** January 24, 2011, 02:41:32 AM »

I'm suspicious that you are scum because you went for an easy jump on Bob, while parroting, and then you go and defend reV right after he admits to lurking and calling the discussion crud.

That's why I think you are scum.

And if you two are indeed in cahoots, then it would be beneficial to turn suspicion on someone who people are already wary of.

Hanged Hourai · « **Reply #149 on:** January 24, 2011, 02:44:54 AM »

As for what huh what said, I'm going to blame that one being a newb like I said before. But if it's absolutely necessary that I answer it, I will. Just give me a few minutes.