MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over

[Edible]

Neener neener neener.

Zakeri (4): Kilgamayan. Roukanken, Serela, Zentillion
Chaore (1): Kitten4u
huh what (1): Zakeri
Furienify (2): Alice Margatroid, UncertainKitten
Serela (1): Chaore
UncertainKitten (1): huh what
Zentillion (2): Furienify, Carthrat

No vote: Kefit

Kefit has been prodded.

Edit: Due to real life circumstances, Zakeri may be unable to continue this game.  We will see what happens and if he needs replacement.

[WHMZakeri]

A Quick clearification on the cheerleading charge: When I said "I wonder who's going to jump on these bandwagons" I was waiting for someone who was scummy to jump on, rather than just targeting the first person to fall for it and calling them scum.

I've expressed my distaste for the bandwagons, so I don't know what it is people are trying to dig out of my saying that to make me seem scummy.

also, What Edible Said.

[FinnKaenbyou]

A Quick clearification on the cheerleading charge: When I said "I wonder who's going to jump on these bandwagons" I was waiting for someone who was scummy to jump on, rather than just targeting the first person to fall for it and calling them scum.

Explain, then, why you thought the point you made against huh what was more valuable than any of the other cases that emerged. I can't understand why you dumped the other cases as pointless and you dropped instead a vote on HW for not making it clear that he was being sarcastic during the RVS.

[Kilgamayan]

Rat, are you really trying to tell me you read that post and concluded that Zentilion is some GENIUS CRIMINAL MASTERMIND that has intentionally set himself up to jump on whatever case he needs to? All I see is a newbie trying to flounder through Day 1 like basically every newbie ever had to flounder through their first Day 1. Of course he's going to be indecisive on a bunch of stuff, he's a newbie and it's Day 1.

Besides, do you really see that UK assessment coming from someone that has buddies to talk to? Especially with how factually incorrect it is?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Edible, that votecount is messed up.

Apparently Rou is voting two people, and Zak is still voting me even though he switched to Rou (I think?)

[edible]My bad on Rou, but Zak's vote is correct.[/edible]

[Kefit]

Well, We've got three people open for free bandwagoning, now. Let's see which one everyone piles onto.

This post bugs me. A lot. Zak claims here that this wasn't an encouragement of bandwagons, but rather a trap laid out for anyone who happened to be scummy. That seems tenuous to me. It's more likely that this post was either a complete throwaway, or an attempt to get some dumb town to jump on a wagon so that Zak would then have someone to finger point at. Things get worse a bit later:

You've been playing Mafia along with the rest of us. Given a reason and half a chance, you could answer the question.
That's not how you solve a Burden of Proof Falacy, Rou. It gives UK the chance to explain what she's talking about using postlinks, and it just makes Her look more town and you look lazy.

Also, In ten words or more, explain why your vote is on Chaore at this point in time, Rou.

First, Zak introduces chaff to into the game by talking about a fallacy that he later admits to making up. Reminds me of Pesco's nonsensical, made up vote types in the Haruhi game we just played. Worse yet, instead of providing any analysis of his own, Zak just demands that another play explain himself. It's like he's trying to avoid having to post anything meaningful while at the same time demanding the keen insight of others. Why would he do that I wonder? Maybe because he finds it too hard to fabricate his own cases when he already knows the truth. Hell, if Rou's explanation is good enough then maybe Zak wlil have a case that he can reasonably jump on.

I've never liked bandwagons, but I'm comfortable with putting Zak at L-2. ##Vote Zak

I also want to briefly mention that I'm feeling a bit of an odd vibe from Kilga. But instead of being like UK, I'll go ahead and justify it. After the end of Haruhi Mafia, I chatted with Kilga a bit about the thought processes that led to his correct calling of the three scum immediately after his death. One thing he told me was that he was pretty sure that Bard and Edible weren't scum because they got into a d1 catfight - something that scum almost never do. In the game we are playing now, Rou and UK started slapping each other around pretty early on. What I find odd is that Kilga tried to stick his head in, just a little bit, here and here. It's like he wanted to make sure that he had a minor presence in these scuffles, while at the same time avoiding having to actually commit to participating in them. In other words, it's like he's attempting to participate in townie shenanigans while at the same time avoiding the possibility that he might slip-up in his act. This probably isn't vote worthy, especially compared to my Zak case, but it does make me raise an eyebrow.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

The scuffle was an argument about him, so uh, wasn't he kind of obligated to post in it (or at least respond to UK's vote on him)? Or am I not understanding you right?

[Kitten4u]

Want clarification from K4U regarding "I'm not getting where people are getting "scum-vibes" from Kilga" because I'm pretty sure UK was the only one that thought me scummy.

It was me just saying that I didn't understand why UK found you scummy because you haven't done anything suspicious imo.  I used "people" because Neo brought up Kilga!scum as well, but it was probably the wrong word to use.  Considering I was half-asleep when I wrote that and I used "both" to refer to a group of three people I'm not surprised I used an awkward word.

On the rehash point, to be fair to me I had missed four pages on stuff.  It's only natural that I would repeat some stuff.  But I wanted to make sure my opinions were out there even if I did have to repeat some things.

I'm not sure where you're getting indicision from, but I'll go ahead and try to explain stuff.  I'm against newbie wagons; I think it's unlikely that they'll flip scum.  While I was reading for a while my reads where Chaore = Zak in terms of scumminess, but some of Zak's more recent posts (and Chaore's as well) made it Chaore > Zak which is >>> UK.  I wouldn't oppose any of those lynches, but Chaore is still my preferd lynch.

---

Other assorted comments:

Not impressed with Zak's explanation for that one post.  I don't think I'm really understanding Kefit's Kilga comment.  I feel about the same way as HW.  Not happy with the people jumping on newbie wagons, I'm betting there's scum on them.  I still like my Chaore vote, but I'm willing to switch to Zak.

[Serela]

I may at odds with her this game, but this is terrible logic and fairly straw-grasping.

##Vote: Zentillion

Voting a newbie for terrible logic, and on D1? Come on, I'm sure you can find a better case on someone else then something like that. Afterwards you made a post saying you've previously used such a scum playstyle such as Zentillion seemed to be using in your example, which backs up your vote, but I'd say it's more likely just newbie floundering on D1.

Keeping an eye on Furienify, but not really super suspicious either, since

Because it's clear Furienify has no idea what he's doing?

Now, to move on to Zakeri. He's saying a lot how he dislikes bandwagons, which is something scum would like, so it's a statement that would make you seem town. However, this also means it could be a ploy to disguise yourself as town. Why jump on bandwagons and seem scummy if you can just completely avoid them yourself? Let's not forget the encouragement for others to bandwagon, which in my eyes, is just as likely to be a scumtrap as it is to be a scumplot.

Or, better yet, make a case on someone completely unvoted so far, so that either A.You'll create a new bandwagon, or B.If that fails, hopefully you'll at least not be payed much attention to, in the event of a non-convincing case. Which brings back up Zakeri's vote. His reasons for voting Rou were pretty much "Voted Chaore for not voting" and "He argued". Rou's reason for voting Chaore may not have been based off much, but this was back in early D1 when there was nothing to go off of in the first place. I can see how the action seems slightly scummy of Chaore, but I also think it's not really much of anything at all, so I don't see how Rou voting Chaore for that suddenly makes him worthy of being accused for scumminess himself.

...Lordy, I'm doing terribly in my first mafia here, whatever role I really am.

* Neo brofists Zentillion

Gotta start somewhere, and we'll surely get better with practice~

[Carthrat]

@Kilga: I... don't think I was implying that Zentilion was in any way some brilliant mastermind? Where do you get this :|

[WHMZakeri]

Explain, then, why you thought the point you made against huh what was more valuable than any of the other cases that emerged. I can't understand why you dumped the other cases as pointless and you dropped instead a vote on HW for not making it clear that he was being sarcastic during the RVS.

You know, I'm really getting sick and tired of you asking this question.

Who should I have voted for then? Let's say my vote in on X. Let's say Cases are made on W, Y, and Z. I disagree with the cases on W, Y, and Z, even though the case on X isn't any stronger. In this Scenario, Who should I vote for?

I had no reason to join or disturb the bangwagons back then, since I thought they were all wrong, yet would provide information if they continued. I didn't have to reason to stay on huh what, but I also didn't have a reason to move from him. If I did have some huge magical better than day one reason to stay, I would have provided it. I make absolutely no claims to be a magical mafia diviner, and I won't make this claim in the future unless huh what also turned out to be scum in this case.

@Edible: Huh? What?
Oh I see, it's because it was stuffed into my quotefail on accident.
##Unvote: Huh what
##Vote: Roukanken

Maybe because he finds it too hard to fabricate his own cases when he already knows the truth.

Why would I believe this after what I did to Neitz last game? I was town, granted, but it was pretty solid for a day one, town based case. I agree that I need to pay more attention to what's happening now that some time has passed.
Also, it may not be an actual fallacy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't apply to the situation.

I Don't see the case on Chaore at all. His response to Rou's vote on him seems naturally to me, if a bit sudden with the OMGUS. His explanations in 60 and 72 are satisfying to the end of explaining why he unvoted, and I can't find where he "put words in Rou's mouth" like K4u stated in her 104.

Carth Votes Zentillion for Waffles. Yay Waffles! *See avatar*.
I'm not entirely behind lynching Zen Master, but It's a very good vote to make early in the day, since this teaches him to be more decisive on who's scum and who's not. It's always better to be absolutely wrong than "sort of, maybe" correct.
Kilga's "Brilliant Mastermind" comment seems like he's trying to fling Carth's vote in the mud, however. This doesn't make me feel good about Either Kilga or Zen.

[Chaore]

This is why I should wake up early, instead of 2 in the morning.

Still not a fan of the Zak wagon. Kefit is about the only mildly convincing person on the entire wagon. Rou is basically not getting what it means to not like current cases, and Kilga hasn't really pressed anything. Neo and Zent are bandwagoners. Not happy with this, but it is kind of a day 1 wagon.

Zentillion I'm willing to toss a bit of leniency on, if just because bandwagoning occured after trying to read the game instead of before even BOTHERING to read the game. This is why I'm still on Neo, and not tossing him free leniency for being new.

As such. Fine with my vote where it is.

Carth seems to be acting somewhat oddly, but I'm not about to say scummily. Only thing noteworthy about K4U from first glance is a minor bout of Deja Vu from the posts. Huhwhat votes UK for the spat, which isn't exactly strong but not really something I can blame him for.

@Ninja Neo:

Misrep. Also waving your newbie card like a god damn flag. Stop reminding us about it.

...

How long did I spend typing this out? 2 hours? Jesus I need to stop thinking like I'm writing an essay.

[Serela]

Zentillion I'm willing to toss a bit of leniency on, if just because bandwagoning occured after trying to read the game instead of before even BOTHERING to read the game. This is why I'm still on Neo, and not tossing him free leniency for being new.

I spend an hour making a post and STILL all I get is "God he isn't even reading the goddamn game" >_>_

@Ninja Neo:

Misrep. Also waving your newbie card like a god damn flag. Stop reminding us about it.

In my first paragraph I wasn't talking about myself at ALL. I was talking about Zentillion. The only time I mentioned that I was a newbie was at the end when I just included one sentence to Zentillion and that's it. I'm not trying to remind anyone that I'm new, and I'm really putting effort into doing this, okay? Get off my back about it >_>;

[FinnKaenbyou]

Who should I have voted for then? Let's say my vote in on X. Let's say Cases are made on W, Y, and Z. I disagree with the cases on W, Y, and Z, even though the case on X isn't any stronger. In this Scenario, Who should I vote for?

Except you didn't initially say 'I disagree with the cases on W, Y and Z'. You said 'Ooh, I wonder if someone's going to jump on W, Y or Z!'. Furthermore, you said here you were waiting for someone scummy to jump on, but at the same time jumping on didn't imply they were scum. Where did you intend to put your vote?

I had no reason to join or disturb the bangwagons back then, since I thought they were all wrong, yet would provide information if they continued. I didn't have to reason to stay on huh what, but I also didn't have a reason to move from him.

'Voting on these wagons is useful and produces discussion. That's why I didn't do it, avoided discussion entirely, called everyone stupid and didn't even try to form an opinion'.
I'm sorry, but when things get serious you do NOT hold to a joke and wait for a 'real' suspect to show up. You go for whoever looks scummiest among the people getting discussed unless you catch someone out for voting scummily, because both of those options promote discussion and information. HOLDING TO WHAT IS EFFECTIVELY A JOKEVOTE CONTRIBUTES NOTHING.

Where'd UK go?

[UncertainJakutten]

This! Thank you. I'd vote UK for trying to crucify me so quickly, but that would be a bit of an OMGUS, so ##FoS: UK at the very least.

...why are you at all worried about how it looks? Dear god, this post, how amazingly scummy it is.

I also love how there is no response to my case here. What do you mean "crucify you so quickly"?

Also, Carth, your case on me is about the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

Zent also gains an ##FoS: Zentillion

Oh god, the bullshit brigade starts.

##FoS: HW. Enjoying the winds of change much?

The fact you notice the fact that Furien is doing terrible and IGNORE it makes it so much hilariously worse.

...##HoS: Zent What in the nine hells is this pile of...I...I just don't have an answer for this. The stupid is so INCREDIBLY stupid I just....there are not words

No, seriously, NOT ONLY does your "UK looks bad" boil down to "She's scum a lot, let's get her out of the way"

You know what? rereading that, that just sounds like scum trying to use BLANTANTLY FALSE STATISTICS to frame a terrible wagon. Not quite though, he doesn't vote me. Which kinda makes it worse in a way since he's waffling like fuck but cheerleading the wagon. ##Unvote, Vote Zent

Yes, I know he's a noob. Yes, I'm aware that apparently noobs have been pinging my scumdar (though that's been...Furien...and Zent now, so actually, even then it hasn't been "me only picking on noobs", it's been quite literally one, and now two terrible looking noobs (on the scum/town axis))

So, ##FoS: Anyone who's blanket stated me to be "picking on noobs

Wow, that's amazing Furien. On the one hand, you're right. On the other, you still haven't done anything of merit this game. Honestly, Zent's post was so terrible I can't rule out bussing (of course I'm assuming I'm right as I always do )

.
.
.
This response
Just...this response. Makes me want to stab myself. Well, I pointed out above why there is scummy manipulation here, but basically...YOU DON'T WANT US TO CALL YOU OUT ON BEING WRONG?
Wow.

...Lordy, I'm doing terribly in my first mafia here, whatever role I really am. Ah well, this is about being entertained. And I am.

DEAR
GOD!
This...this statement, on it's own, just blows my mind with it's scumminess. Just...you aren't even trying to say you are town? The subconscious aversion to lying is just...so ridiculously prevalent in that one sentence...

Kilga's post here bothers me. What do you think of the statement I just quoted with my flabbergastation?
Your next post does not give me warm fuzzies.

@Rou: So, basically, I'm supposed to ignore actions that benefit scum just because someone's a "new player"...when they've ADMITTED they've played mafia before? Huh? I don't understand this.

I like Carth's Zent post a lot.

Rou's ignoring of Zentillion is noted.

This Kilga post is reasonable (not necessarily correct, but reasonable) but bugs the FUCK out of me. But I think part of that is just how bad I feel about Zent and this just feels like a defense. I'll want to revisit this later, and even then might not get anything since Zent has a fair chance of going down. I don't see Kilga scumbuddy wanting to be tied to that. So, call this a placeholder to go back to.

Interesting, Kefit. And I tried to justify it, I just couldn't find anything. It's a pure gut read.

Ok, I see a lot of Zakeri talk. I don't remember anything of importance from Zakeri. This is probably an indication he hasn't DONE anything. Is that the basic case on him?

Serela is non commital, but doesn't feel as bad as other people I've called out on it.

Zak's post on another way to take Kilga's post is actually quite nice and might be more what bugged me.

@Rou's latest post: Maybe I just got home after declaring I'd be gone til around now? And now I've been posting a catch up wall dear god I am sorry for this.

##UnFoS: HW
I don't feel he's bending like a willow as much as he was upon further review.

I shall qualify this wall saying that I may have missed a lot of stuff since I was skimming towards the end to get a post out.

[Chaore]

I spend an hour making a post and STILL all I get is "God he isn't even reading the goddamn game" >_>_

Misrep. That wasn't an attack on your entire play style, but a certain even which I'm holding you on.

The only time I mentioned that I was a newbie was at the end when I just included one sentence to Zentillion and that's it. I'm not trying to remind anyone that I'm new, and I'm really putting effort into doing this, okay? Get off my back about it >_>;

The last sentence does nothing but establish 'Hey we're NEW~ We'll improve! Don't mind the mistakes we make!'. I've a bit of an issue with that, and I'm -just- calling you on it in a particularly bad example of it. I am not on your back so much as expressing dislike after seeing it,  no need to react so badly.

Ninja Rou: I'd imagine actually holding onto her 'Screw this I'm out of here' post.

Ninja UK: Or right there. God damnit.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

@ UK: In regards to your jab regarding "winds of change" or something like that, my vote on Zakeri was because I felt he was active lurking and not contributing, just snarking about bandwagons. I unvoted because it turned out he actually did try to add something and changed his vote and I didn't notice it because it was in a broken quote tag, not because of changes.

The fact you notice the fact that Furien is doing terrible and IGNORE it makes it so much hilariously worse.

I don't actually feel Furien's actions are scummy. They're bad play, but I don't feel like they come from any specific alignment. His previous lack of vote (aside from the jokevote on Alice) seems kind of odd, though, but that alone doesn't really make him feel like scum imo.


Oh hey, Zent exists. I overlooked his response to me, derp. Am I the only one who feels like his comments on people give off vibes of "oh maybe they're scum maybe they're not benifit of doubt lol" without him actually adding anything of his own? He even said that about himself like multiple times. Actually, he seems to be fond of saying "maybe or maybe not" way too much, considering what he said about his vote. He also completely sidestepped my actual question which is kind of hurrr.

Furi: Eheh, you posted while I was replying to huh what. Anyway, those are very good reasons for you to label me as scum, and wow, I can't come up with any good defenses other than "make sure you're absolutely sure", and well, you sound sure of very possible scumplay. All I can really do is hope everyone else doesn't turn their votes towards me. Which could be likely.

wait what

I have no idea how I missed this earlier, but wow this is terrible. You just said "Yeah I guess your reasons for calling me scum are fine and I can't defend myself, but meh, I just hope I don't get lynched." Did you even READ what you were saying? For that matter, your constant "oh i could be town but maybe i'm not" that you have going on in like every one of your posts makes no sense. You KNOW your alignment, and that feels like you're taking advantage of how town doesn't in an attempt to confuse everyone. Except that it doesn't work, because we know you know your alignment. Saying "I'm town" is one thing, but when you're going to imply that you only might be town it comes off as if you're scum trying to discourage town from lynching you on the grounds that we don't know if we'll be mislynching.

##Unvote

##Vote Zentillion

Still not feeling very good about UK (@ Kilga: I could understand her playstyle being an excuse for the argument itself, but still, are her obvious attempts at provoking Rou really necessary?), but this is ridiculous.

[UncertainJakutten]

@HW: Winds of change as in you had a rather respected townie attacking me and the Zak wagon losing steam. But, you haven't taken other changes (til now), so it's not as accurate.

...Oh God...that entire post just reinforces my swaying with the wind read. I still think Zent is a good lynch but ##FoS: HW

I should pay attention to the next votecount to confirm some things.

And, once again, I wasn't TRYING to provoke Rou. But whatever, you clearly aren't listening because you have your magical sparkly version of events. Hope you start playing the actual game soon. You know, outside of parroting what everyone else said .

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

In what way was it losing steam? Zak had the most votes at the time, and between my post saying "Yeah I'm content with my vote on Zak" and the post where I changed my vote, the only posts related to the Zak wagon that weren't by me were Carthrat pointing out that Zak voted Rou really recently (which is how I realized my mistake with the quote tags) and K4U saying she didn't like Zak so far. I don't see any steam lost at all.

And, once again, I wasn't TRYING to provoke Rou.

Your posts do not come off that way at all.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Also I don't see how I'm parroting, if somebody actually said everything about Zent that I said already I missed it

[UncertainJakutten]

It's not strictly parroting, but you basically rephrase 75% of my case on Zent, 20% of Carthrat's case, and throw in a couple fluff sentences.

Anyway, I tend to be bad with reading votes as compared to attitudes. The attitude appeared to be "Zak doesn't seem that bad, let's look elsewhere" in general. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Anyway, magical fairytale land etc. on the Rou accusation.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Care to point out the instances of rephrasing? I reread your post and Carthrat's after your accusation of parroting but didn't actually notice the posts saying anything that I copied or rephrased.

[UncertainJakutten]

OK, honestly, I'm going to drop this point, ##UnFoS: HW
If you'd like I'll produce my quote laden notes that make me come to the conclusion you aren't parroting nearly as badly as I initially thought, but it's pretty much useless in my opinion except as a show your work exercise. It doesn't really say a lot except "My bad. Well wait that's a parrot but...yeah...you add a fair bit to the case so..."

[Edible]

If this is inaccurate I blame the nazis.

Zakeri (5): Kilgamayan. Roukanken, Serela, Zentillion, Kefit
Chaore (1): Kitten4u
Furienify (1): Alice Margatroid
Serela (1): Chaore
Zentillion (4): Furienify, Carthrat, UncertainKitten, huh what
Roukanken (1): Zakeri

Around 24 hours remain.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Furienify (2): Alice Margatroid
Those wacky nazis.

[Kilgamayan]

Rat: You were suggesting Zentilion was setting himself up to take whatever stance he needed to down the line (or else why is public indecision scummy?). Look at the things he has said throughout the game and try to parse the idea that his indecision was intentional as opposed to just a newbie being Day 1 Unsure. Hell, try to parse the idea that he'd even think to set something like that up. (I pre-empt your suggestion that buddies help him set it up by pointing out that buddies so involved with helping him would not have let him post that UK stuff.)

UK: I disagree with your logic leap and feel "Day 1 sucks, I'm doing what I can" != "Don't call me out on being wrong". It's true that he was factually wrong, but that's not what Furien pressured him for.

Fake edit: Oh wait, the actual quote. My thoughts are "what makes scum more likely to say that than town?"

Chaore: I haven't pressed my Zakvote because Roukan's said basically everything I wanted to. Also I assumed providing opinions only after being pressed to provide them (and then making them snarky and unhelpful) not counting was self-evident. I will admit I forgot to mention that the whole thing felt a bit like town herding ("here, look, they are delicious wagons we must focus on them") which is another small part of why my vote still sits there.

HW: Most (...well, okay, all) of the generally negative emotion UK conveys is unnecessary, but you might as well ignore it because she's not going to stop.

I see and understand Kefit's general concern but his specifics need work considering one of the two posts he linked was my response to the case on me. (Hilariously, I was originally going to simply ignore the case entirely (gogo Gadget Adverbs!) - maybe I should have?) The second link? The subject being discussed seemed like it specifically called for outside input, so I gave it. If left to its own devices it probably would've become another slapfight over "You're antagonizing me!" "No I'm not!" "Yes you are!" which does nothing but distract town and help scum.

[UncertainJakutten]

@Kilga: Already explained. People having a natural aversion to outright lying, etc.

Also, Kilga, Daytalk WIFOM is weak and you know it.

[Kilgamayan]

The daytalk meta was used as a pre-emptive counter to daytalk meta.

As for the natural disposition to truth-telling, I don't buy it for internet purposes.

[Carthrat]

@Kilga: I didn't intend to present him as some brilliant planner, no. I don't think he deliberately sat down and thought 'if I'm indecisive here, it will pay dividends in the future'. I do think it's more likely scum will post things, however, that allow them to remain neutral on a discussion whilst appearing to contribute. This even applies to newbie scum; it's a pretty natural way of falling into playing it, actually, because it seems so reasonable and surely everyone will accept it- but it's not actually *hunting!* I think a townie player would have heightened suspicions of others and be less wishy-washy in general. Also, flipflopping like that is padding. Scum feel the need to pad in order to look like they're contributing. I think this is something we would generally agree on?

Anyway, I think that's only one point- the other, on the criteria he uses to lynch- seems as if not more damning. It looks as though he just assigns 'benefit of the doubt' at whim, and the rationale he used with regards to UK should truly speak for itself. But I'll say it anyway; it's made entirely on bizzaro meta logic that seems to justify lynching UK even if she is town!

His buddies are irrelevant, what is your deal bringing them up?

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

@Kilga: Already explained. People having a natural aversion to outright lying, etc.

Y'do realise we are playing mafia, right? (Also, FWIW, not all people. But that's a discussion for another place.)

Anyway:

Zentillion wagon is, imho, largely dumb. None of the mistakes he's made is outright scummy thusfar, and you'd expect that someone with buddies would at least have them fact-check his post before posting it, given the sheer quantity of the awful. In any order, if he is scum, expect scum to be bussing him, and probably early on the wagon. That being said, doing wagonalysis without any flips is dumb, and thus any further reasoning down this path is to be saved for later days.

@Carth: except that he's not even voting UK! And really, both NewbScum and NewbTown are likely to be wishy-washy on Day freaking One. There just doesn't seem to be anything outright scummy in his posts, and it's too early in D1 to bring about active lurking charges imho. I don't think he's worth a lynch at this point, even for D1 reasons.

Zakeri wagon I'm still not even sure of the reasons for, despite Zakeri having no less than five votes. This worries me. A lot. Need to go over everyone who's voting him, not to mention him himself. It seems a lot of the reasoning seems to follow down his cheerleading/lack of contribution, which, while interesting, the latter case can't really be brought against him all that much compared to, well, most other peoples' here, really, and the former...eh. I'm not sure if he's scummy enough at this point to warrant a lynch.

Furienify needs to stop making excuses and make a case on someone, anyone, and cram his vote somewhere. He's playing a lot like one class of NewbScum does (namely the "halp how do I lynched Townie?" class). Also, noob or not, we are not letting you get past D1 without actually voting. Lurking is fine, not voting...not so much. Vote stays.

Kilga...really, I'm not seeing everyone's ScumKilga vibes. A lot of it feels as if y'all are trying by force to extrapolate off an extremely small dataset, and thus are coming to this conclusion. At this point, I personally am really just not seeing it :V