Another EoSD 1cc attempt ends in failure.

[Janitor Morgan]

...Or rather, I fail at trying to 1cc. Replay here.

Seriously, I don't agree with Stage 4. While I know that most bullets in the stage are aimed directly at me and that I can graze most/all of those by moving after they've all fired, my instinct tells me to swerve out of the way, and you can guess what happens there. I also don't use bombs often, and I probably should. Patchy's little trouble once I get there, though.  :V

Any advice, such as when to move away from the bullet spam on Stage 4?

[nintendonut888]

An important fact of Touhou is that you need to learn to trust what you know is going to happen, not what looks like is going to happen.

[Janitor Morgan]

An important fact of Touhou is that you need to learn to trust what you know is going to happen, not what looks like is going to happen.

I should have already learned that by now, given how long it took me to capture Meiling's Rainbow Wind Chime consistently. The constant swirling would give me vertigo, and I'd often see the bullets as moving sideways and move away...straight into another bullet.

I've fixed that particular trouble spot, but yeah, I need to apply that fact to Stage 4 as well.

[theshirn]

bullets in the stage are aimed directly at me and that I can graze most/all of those by moving after they've all fired

This is known as Streaming.  Learn to do it; it'll do you good.

First off, and always the first advice given round these parts:
BOMB
MORE

No, bombspamming through the game will not fill you with quite the greatest sense of achievement, as might capturing every card, but that's not realistic at this point, is it?  Don't be afraid to bomb, you'll be surprised how far that alone will carry you.

As far as streaming Stage 4 is concerned, the streaming fairies that comprise most of the first half of the stage can be done my moving slightly in one direction after each few waves fired (though I tend to fly around the screen like a madman there anyway for no good reason).  Post-Koakuma, though, it becomes a good deal more important.  The trick is regular small taps in one direction.

[Janitor Morgan]

First off, and always the first advice given round these parts:
BOMB
MORE

No, bombspamming through the game will not fill you with quite the greatest sense of achievement, as might capturing every card, but that's not realistic at this point, is it?  Don't be afraid to bomb, you'll be surprised how far that alone will carry you.

But bombspamming doesn't sound like f--oh, wait, you covered that already.  :V

I've always been stingy with limited-use items, so this'll be a tough habit to break. I'll try my best, though.

As far as streaming Stage 4 is concerned, the streaming fairies that comprise most of the first half of the stage can be done my moving slightly in one direction after each few waves fired (though I tend to fly around the screen like a madman there anyway for no good reason).  Post-Koakuma, though, it becomes a good deal more important.  The trick is regular small taps in one direction.

Typically, my reason for doing that is to POC the point items that the enemies leave behind after their barrages. Not the best of ideas, I'll admit.

I'll do a bit of streaming practice before my next run. Not only will it help with Stage 4, but I just might keep that mindset for Sakuya's Misdirection later on. Thanks for the tips!

[Tsym]

I've walked down this same path (and still do).  I have this really, really bad mentality to never use bombs.  I want to capture every single spell card and thus I always die on spell cards with bombs in stock.  Kick the habit ASAP.  There are some spell cards where bombing is good and saves you a lot of pain on multiple runs.  Learn especially to death bomb because that will help you the most. 
How I've kind of gotten into the habit of bombing is by roughly planning out my bomb usage throughout the game.  There are some cards that are probably 100% bombs (cough Marionette cough) and some cards that may be 50-75% bombs (cough Scarlet Shoot/Red Magic).  I've accepted which cards are almost impossible to even 50% capture, so it's just bomb past and hope that I can 1cc.  And don't panic when faced with aimed bullet streams.  Very easy to dodge.  Also kick the habit of trying to collect all the items.

[Helix ⑨]

Use MarisaA (or B if you fail and want to bomb spam through everything) she's stronger and generally better.

[RainfallYoshi]

Use MarisaA (or B if you fail and want to bomb spam through everything) she's stronger and generally better.

I've found that the differences in shot types isn't quite as huge in EoSD as it is in the other games, other than the spellcards Patchy is going to throw in your face.

If it means anything I 1cced Normal and beat Extra with ReimuA. That's right, weaksauce homing Reimu.

[Tinari]

I am still trying to 1CC EoSD.

I played earlier and barely got past Patchouli and died on stage 5.
I played again right afterwards without the vsync and got to Remilia. (Well, would have if I didn't literally fly into a bomb.)

I found the vsync patch raises my rate of "stupid mistakes" and I never noticed before, but without the vsync my game runs at 50FPS and with it, it runs at 60FPS which is why I think I do some of the mistakes.  Things moving faster and I move faster = not prepared.

I also saved both replays just in case but I don't want to upload either.  I used maybe a total of 10 bombs on the second run, maybe 4 on the first. 

[Helix ⑨]

I've found that the differences in shot types isn't quite as huge in EoSD as it is in the other games, other than the spellcards Patchy is going to throw in your face.

If it means anything I 1cced Normal and beat Extra with ReimuA. That's right, weaksauce homing Reimu.

Well, I found that spellcards ended quicker with MarisaA (at least compared to reimuA and marisaB, I havent really tried reimuB) and in the end that is gonna be a major advantage in the extra stage. Also I personally find MarisaA's patchy version the easiest, but I guess that differs for each person.

[theshirn]

I found the vsync patch raises my rate of "stupid mistakes" and I never noticed before, but without the vsync my game runs at 50FPS and with it, it runs at 60FPS which is why I think I do some of the mistakes.  Things moving faster and I move faster = not prepared.

Slowdown = cheating.  Playing the game at 50 FPS gives you a whole sixth of the time more than you're supposed to have.  I understand that it's difficult, but no one's going to be impressed if you beat it because of slowdown.

[Janitor Morgan]

I've always stuck with ReimuA just because I can still do some damage to bosses if I'm dodging things. I'll have to try Marisa at some point, though.

Again, thanks to all of you for the advice. I tried Stage 4 in practice mode (after finding and applying the V-Sync patch) and only died twice: once to the bullets in the laser section (dunno what I was thinking there) and once to Patchy's Agni Shine. With some more work, that stage will be no trouble at all.

[Tinari]

Slowdown = cheating.  Playing the game at 50 FPS gives you a whole sixth of the time more than you're supposed to have.  I understand that it's difficult, but no one's going to be impressed if you beat it because of slowdown.

Ok.  So instead of treating me like a terrible player who's deliberately playing the game at 50 FPS on a conscious effort, why not tell me how to play the game at 60 FPS without the vsync mod?  When I got the game, it ran at 50 FPS.  When I used default options to fix some changes I made, it ran 50 FPS.  When I just went into the options and checked "Force 60 FPS" it runs at 50 FPS.  The only way I can get it to run at 60 FPS is using the VSync patch.

[Heartbeam]

Ok.  So instead of treating me like a terrible player who's deliberately playing the game at 50 FPS on a conscious effort, why not tell me how to play the game at 60 FPS without the vsync mod?

I'm probably missing the larger picture here, but why not use the vsync patch to play at 60 FPS?  I'm not going to agree or disagree with theshim's wording, but I don't see anything about it in response to your post that would discourage use of the patch.  Sorry for picking on this in particular instead of giving information relevant to the topic.

[theshirn]

I've always stuck with ReimuA just because I can still do some damage to bosses if I'm dodging things. I'll have to try Marisa at some point, though.

For Normal, I recommend MarisaA.  Highest forward damage at range and a decent bomb, plus Patchy doesn't quite rape you as hard on Normal.  Higher difficulties may result in player shifts, but for Normal MarisaA makes bosses a good chunk easier.

Ok.  So instead of treating me like a terrible player who's deliberately playing the game at 50 FPS on a conscious effort, why not tell me how to play the game at 60 FPS without the vsync mod?  When I got the game, it ran at 50 FPS.  When I used default options to fix some changes I made, it ran 50 FPS.  When I just went into the options and checked "Force 60 FPS" it runs at 50 FPS.  The only way I can get it to run at 60 FPS is using the VSync patch.

Alright; I'm sorry for my poor choice of wording.  I don't mean to call you a deliberate cheater.  I do, however, want to say this: use the vsync patch at 60.  It'll be harder, but you will adjust and get better, and it simply makes more sense to play the games as they are made to be played.  Don't get discouraged if it takes a while; it took me months to get my first 1cc, and over a year later I'm still having trouble with simple crap.

[AlexX Unlimited]

For Normal, I recommend MarisaA.  Highest forward damage at range and a decent bomb, plus Patchy doesn't quite rape you as hard on Normal.

Eh, I'd kinda disagree here... For me there's about 3 Patchy cards I can't stand and two of them are faced as Marisa A. I'd say Marisa B and Reimu A tend to have easier Patchys.

'Course, I first 1CC'd with Marisa B, so take that as you will...

[theshirn]

Eh, I'd kinda disagree here... For me there's about 3 Patchy cards I can't stand and two of them are faced as Marisa A. I'd say Marisa B and Reimu A tend to have easier Patchys.

'Course, I first 1CC'd with Marisa B, so take that as you will...

As did I.  I'd still go with MarisaA; she outperforms MarisaB in every respect except very slight spread and bomb, but Stardust Reverie, if you continue to shoot the boss while active, will clear pretty much any spell card anyway.  The extra couple bombs for Patchy do not override the fewer used elsewhere - MarisaA clears cards MUCH faster.

[nintendonut888]

I don't remember how Patchy was on normal, but on lunatic I'd consider Marisa A Patchy on max rank harder than Remilia. For me at least that's still not enough to deter me from using her. I wouldn't recommend her for people who don't know the game that well though.

[AlexX Unlimited]

[...] but Stardust Reverie, if you continue to shoot the boss while active, will clear pretty much any spell card anyway.

As long as you activate the bomb on top of the boss. If you aren't nearby, less stars from the bomb will hit, resulting in less damage.

The extra couple bombs for Patchy do not override the fewer used elsewhere - MarisaA clears cards MUCH faster.

Generally, during my first 1CC I found I either captured a card or I had to bomb it, with no real in-between (barring stupid mistakes like the one I made on Rainbow Wind Chime... Yes, I screwed up on one of the easiest attacks in the game and STILL somehow managed to 1CC it). Whether it's cleared in 16 seconds or 14 seconds shouldn't make that big a difference.

EDIT: All that said, I think this person should be encouraged to use whoever they want. If memory serves none of the ESoD shot types are all that bad, so there shouldn't be any real reason to insist on using the community favorite. Even laser Marisa still does great damage and homing Reimu makes it easy to keep your focus on dodging and less on the boss's current position.

[theshirn]

As long as you activate the bomb on top of the boss. If you aren't nearby, less stars from the bomb will hit, resulting in less damage.

No, I'm talking the bottom of the screen.  Also note that from the bottom, SR lasts about as long as Master Spark, even if it doesn't have quite the screen-clearing capabilities.

Generally, during my first 1CC I found I either captured a card or I had to bomb it, with no real in-between (barring stupid mistakes like the one I made on Rainbow Wind Chime... Yes, I screwed up on one of the easiest attacks in the game and STILL somehow managed to 1CC it). Whether it's cleared in 16 seconds or 14 seconds shouldn't make that big a difference.

Between MarisaA and MarisaB, fine.  MarisaA will clear things a whole wave or two faster than ReimuA, though.  And even so, I still prefer the 14 seconds; very often I'll die on a card with very little life left.

[Tinari]

Sorry.  I spent the last hour out somewhere and having to climb into the back window (second story apartment) to get back in my house.  Heh.

I was wondering because I had TH06 for a while and always played it at what I thought was "normal, default" speed and had no clue that the FPS had any bearing on the actual gameplay speed.  Therefore, I had gotten used to the 50 FPS that it always played at.  I was wanting to use the non-vsync version as a test to see if I was overcompensating in how I played because WITH the vsync patch (Which I am using exclusively I should add) I am playing poorly.  I want to see if it's because the 20% faster movement over 50 FPS or if it's because I am still compensating for the movement delay.

Other than just testing, I still intend to use the vsync patch.

[RainfallYoshi]

EDIT: All that said, I think this person should be encouraged to use whoever they want. If memory serves none of the ESoD shot types are all that bad, so there shouldn't be any real reason to insist on using the community favorite. Even laser Marisa still does great damage and homing Reimu makes it easy to keep your focus on dodging and less on the boss's current position.

This. The only time ReimuA ever handicapped me was during Cranberry Trap, because the homing amulets decided they liked the bullet spawners more than Flandre. Other than that they tend to behave most of the time.

[flurk]

i realy don't get the BOAMB MOAR advice: wouldn't bombing again and again just get in the way of learning and practise?

[ebarrett]

i realy don't get the BOAMB MOAR advice: wouldn't bombing again and again just get in the way of learning and practise?

No. Just no. Forget the "no bombs no deaths" replays you see, the perfect lunatics. This is 1% stuff for 1% of players - the best giving their best, after dozens/hundreds of hours of what might be as well described as NOT FUN AT ALL grinding. Touhou is resource management, and wasting resources in a resource management game is stupid.

So, if you want to win, bomb moar. If you want to get better, challenge yourself above your level - not bombing is a pretty sizeable restriction - but don't complain that you can't win.

edit: also, StB is everything anyone at about normal modo level needs for practice, but everyone also keeps complaining that it is "too hard", while everyone loves spell practice which is basically the same thing but less polished - and I also doubt that most of the people who complain about StB's difficulty have 222/222 in IN, or even near that.

[RainfallYoshi]

The whole point to bombing more is to not die with bombs in stock. Dying with bombs is like wasting lives.

If you think of it this way, each bomb is one mess-up for you. If you die with some in stock you're losing your max amount of mess-ups.

[Esoterica]

Eh, I'd kinda disagree here... For me there's about 3 Patchy cards I can't stand and two of them are faced as Marisa A. I'd say Marisa B and Reimu A tend to have easier Patchys.

'Course, I first 1CC'd with Marisa B, so take that as you will...

MarisaA is the best you can have for easy, normal, and extra, hands down.

However, for hard and lunatic I'd use ReimuB for the larger spread, smaller hitbox, and easier Patch.  Patch is the hardest with MarisaA, but you aren't going to really notice that until you play hard/lunatic.  And at that point, everything's already harder because MarisA's spread is so pathetically small.

[Tsym]

MarisaA is the best you can have for easy, normal, and extra, hands down.

However, for hard and lunatic I'd use ReimuB for the larger spread, smaller hitbox, and easier Patch.  Patch is the hardest with MarisaA, but you aren't going to really notice that until you play hard/lunatic.  And at that point, everything's already harder because MarisA's spread is so pathetically small.

Agreed.  MarisaA clears spell cards incredibly fast, and she also has a doable Patchy fight at Normal.  It's definitely a bit harder than other characters, but not by much.  There is a tremendous difficulty spike for Hard though, so I'd discourage MarisaA for ReimuB instead.

[flurk]

i only 1cced eosd normal recently. my advice for stage 4 is:
practise mode. again and again until you've
1) memorised the entire stage,
2) know where you certainly need to bomb (for me i usually HAVE to bomb at the part with the green bullets right before midboss), and
3) learn to make the most out of the faeries that clear the screen of all bullets when they die.

(tl;dr memorise the entire stage since it's so fucking hard.)

erm.. watching replays would also be a good idea, though i personally think it's more fun to learn on your own.
here's the replay of my 1cc of eosd normal.
i personally think i did brilliantly at stage 4 in this run. 2 bombs, one being my "necessary" bomb before the midboss, and 1 stupid death at patchouli.
i use Marisa A because dps is for manly men.

[Janitor Morgan]

Why didn't I think of shotgunning the first few enemies to reduce the knife barrage? That makes the first part so much easier...

[flurk]

benefit of memorising the entire bloody stage. i'm glad my replay helped at all