Mafia History Mafia - Game Over

[Kick Hopper]

Actually, that was me forgetting that Monoe was the first person on the wagon. I apologize for that, I thought it was you and Protoman who were voting Crocker at the time.

[Kick Hopper]

I really, really wish you didn't wait until the last minute Crocker. I really needed the time to think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FLclPKznaw

New Monoe isn't just scum, she's obvscum, in that among other things she's an obvious roleblocker. And I'm an idiot for not realizing it sooner. She spent more time in two days speculating on roles than any other player has in the entire game, but she doesn't even consider roles in her cases, only bothering to mention my role once Protoman speculated I was a survivor.

Well, about that Doc claim, my first reaction was: unlikely to be true. For that, let's run it through list of confirmed power roles.

Town has Proximity Minecrafter (vig or bomb possibly?), Curly Brace (progressive power increase), and a likely Even Night Cop. Scum has Feisty Geist (what's that? but probably not a Goon), and a likely roleblocker. That's 3 against 2. Call me skeptical that Town would have an All Night Doctor in a setup like this where there is probably only 3 Scum.  4:2, really now? I would probably lean against believing this claim even if the 3rd Scum also had a power of their own besides the NK. That ratio would make it 4:3 and while the Cop/Doc combo is barely countered by the roleblocker, what else will Scum have that can counter the Minecrafter and Curly Brace while being under the 25% player population? Nothing conclusive about this and this treads into a dangerous area, but I will put it forth for consideration. There is also the wild card in John Cage's ability to talk at Night. Could fit Town, Scum, or even a Survivor (who we still ought to lynch if claimed). I'm going to treat that power as completely neutral though as it doesn't affect other people directly.

Chitose: Slight counter to your Minecrafter observation in that it could have been detrimental to Scum (able to kill one?) and that alone would make it a powerful Town asset. There are assumptions to be made, but for the sake of balance and in-game mechanics that we have seen (not a whole lot), the Scum team doesn't "look" very powerful. I'm not going to get caught up in that argument anymore while still heavily doubting your roleclaim. If you actually flip a Town Doctor, we're probably in big trouble because that means the remaining Scum are probably very powerful roles or in another wild theory, CATS is possibly gambitting Scum. But we'll see.

What you said about Mai is what I've also considered. So... nothing new. The Comedian thing could at best be seen as null, but the overall feeling I get is that it's still not enough to put her into the top 3. Same with your Crocker analysis, nothing new. Overall, it doesn't do enough to sway my opinion that you should be the lynch today. I don't think I have anything else to add for today.

Cut by Proto: Agreed Crocker should get his say in before deadline.

When I replaced in, I really didn't think about CATS the player. I only thought about CATS the Cop.

At least Crocker speculated a way that CATS could be roleblocked with me talking at night; Monoe outright ignored the issue, which is strange because she cares more about roles than any other player in the game. The one time she didn't speculate about roles or even consider them was when I told her she should consider the fact that I could talk at night and the final scum was a roleblocker.

She spent the first third of the game defending scum and calling the Comedian the towniest player, the second third of the game missing, and in the final third she convinced Protoman that she was scum and became Protoman's top scum pick, before making maybe three good posts in a last ditch act of desperation. She plays like scum. She plays like a roleblocker. And we're looking for a scum roleblocker. She's the last scum.

[Kick Hopper]

Incidentally Monoe,

No survivor would ever team up with you.

Your day 6 against me can be summarized as "All survivors must die," and you told me outright that your plan for day 7 is to vote me because if Crocker is town, you know that you're town and thus I must be scum.

You're never going to make third party friends with that kind of a strategy.

And there is no way I'm going to be thankful that you let me live through the night.

[Kilgamayan]

Protoman.EXE the Vanilla Townie, with the power to do nothing special, was finally S-ranked after 5 nights of farming Undernet 6!

It is now Day 7. With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch. You have 72 hours to vote.

Town is in LYLO!

[Faiz]

Fucking Hell.
 

Incidentally Monoe,

No survivor would ever team up with you.

Your day 6 against me can be summarized as "All survivors must die," and you told me outright that your plan for day 7 is to vote me because if Crocker is town, you know that you're town and thus I must be scum.

You're never going to make third party friends with that kind of a strategy.

And there is no way I'm going to be thankful that you let me live through the night.

Cage, can you explain what you meant by this? What was the intent for you posting this? Was it to try and show that Monoe was lying when she was calling you a survivor or something else?
 

 

[Faiz]

Also, I have a few questions for each of you:
 
@ Monoe:
 
1) Why did you back off Protoman yesterday in favor of Crocker?
2) Why would Cage kill Protoman if he were scum?
3) Explain why Protoman's "fluid stance" on CATS was scummy to you.
4) Why did/do you think Cage was/is a Survivor, rather than just a regular third party? Why so specific?
 
@Cage:
 
1) Near the end of the day Yesterday, you expressed concern about the Crocker lynch. What made you have these concerns? If th?ese concerns were as strong as your posts from last night imply, why did you willingly allow the Crocker wagon to continue?
2) Why would Monoe kill Protoman as scum?
3) Why is Monoe "obvscum"? (To Clarify, I understand scum reads, but why is she OBVIOUS scum?)

[Kick Hopper]

And so, the final act begins.

First question:

You never believed I was scum. You've been telling us to lynch me because I was a third party. You told us to lynch the survivor because then we would have Lylo to determine who the last scum is, rather than a coin flip in Lylo.

Fucking Hell.
 
Cage, can you explain what you meant by this? What was the intent for you posting this? Was it to try and show that Monoe was lying when she was calling you a survivor or something else?

I am absolutely not a survivor.

Between Monoe's attacks yesterday and calls to lynch the survivor, she's been slipping advice to me. Somewhat subtle suggestions about how to play the survivor role. It's getting on my nerves because

1. I'm not a survivor
2. It's often coupled with arguments about how everyone should lynch the survivor.

For example:

Alrighty then! It's time for the lightning round. Everything is unrestricted. No revisions like I usually like to do.

I think Cage is a Survivor. Because I feel Kilga would have put one in there with only 3 Scum. Because I also feel Cage's Night talk role is uniquely suited for Right of Survivorship.

After some more deliberation, I now think Crocker is the last Scum. Here is what has changed for me since I initially put Protoman second. I had originally said Protoman is reckless for going for his Scum read over the 3rd party read. The reason is that I initially thought Scum and Survivor would team up for a joint win. But that's not necessarily true. Like I said, the Survivor will flip a coin and go whereever. The Survivor may even want to pay back the Scum for sparing him... and end up lynching the wrong guy because he didn't figure it out. That is a real danger for ScumProto in particular. So in other words, a ScumProto would also want to lynch the Survivor first. He's so in the clear (even after I decided to go after him, nobody is bothering to really care), that he would even be advised not to do this gambit as Scum. So he's attacking me because he's Town and would rather lynch the Scum he sees in front of him over the 3rd party. I still think that's a really reckless move regardless of his confidence in his case on me. But yeah, I see it as more Town intent than Scum now.

Even if I were a survivor, I would never join her because of all the talk about immediately going for my head the next day.

[Faiz]

Also, I'm going to go use this new *~ISOLATION READING TECHNIQUE~* to reread you both one last time, and see if I have more questions before I generate my final reads.
 
P-Edit: Ah thank you for clearing that up Cage.
 
Now please answer my remaining three questions~? <3

[Kick Hopper]

@Cage:
 
1) Near the end of the day Yesterday, you expressed concern about the Crocker lynch. What made you have these concerns? If th?ese concerns were as strong as your posts from last night imply, why did you willingly allow the Crocker wagon to continue?
2) Why would Monoe kill Protoman as scum?
3) Why is Monoe "obvscum"? (To Clarify, I understand scum reads, but why is she OBVIOUS scum?)

1) I wasn't sure about the Crocker lynch either way. I've nearly been lynched as town before because a scum did exactly what Crocker did - lurked through the day quietly, while letting another player dig their own grave. That didn't excuse Monoe. Monoe, especially new Monoe, has been really scummy from my point of view in his responses to Protoman and his interactions with myself. And his past was bad, as Protoman pointed out. In addition, Crocker hasn't even mentioned roles, which would be strange for a roleblocker.

When it comes right down to it, I had ten minutes to deadline, and Crocker's last case was missing.
2)

 

I think Monoe thought you would begin the day with a vote on me. I'm pretty surprised I'm alive.

3) The last scum is a roleblocker. Setup speculation is a scum tell. And roleblockers block roles, which means they have to know who to block.

The way new Monoe places so much focus on setup speculation and player roles leads me to believe that he is very likely to be a roleblocker. Doubly so when he didn't mention my role in his case against me until after Protoman assumed I was third party. She also outright admitted to thinking about CATS in terms of his role rather than his player. And her interest in roles goes far beyond everyone else's. Compounded Protoman's case, the fact that we're looking for a roleblocker, and the fact that she only brought up the roleblocker once all day yesterday, and it makes me realize his play is all wrong for town. A player with that much interest in the setup should be speculating on who the roleblocker is, which she ignored outright.

She's fascinated by roles and setup, but isn't interested in seeking out the roleblocker. If she's town, her number one priority and the focus of her speculation should be to find the roleblocker, since we know the roleblocker is scum. But she ignores the issue outright, instead targetting a player because she thinks the player is a survivor.

Vote: Monoe

[Sasword]

Well, nothing changes regarding my read on Mai (Townie) so I shall start the Day by talking about John Cage (who by the circumstances of the game, has to be the last Scum invalidating my incorrect Day 6 Survivor read). This is probably going to be broken up in 2 or 3large posts: Day 1-5 stuff, Day 6 stuff and maybe a conclusion. To recap, here's my primary case for him on Day 6 again:

John Cage: Interesting dynamic in that you didn't really bother to read the first 5 pages of the game, then came out with your ability on N1 and start reading then. Why'd you bother with all the angst in Day 1 with Protoman? Argh, I just remembered you're also a replacement too so you can't really answer that... Cage didn't like Kyon in Day 2 with mention of the exchange with Comedian so that looks bad. #267 has Cage wanting Kyon to go for somebody other than Sailor Moon and Light. Why is Kyon compelled to search for people other than the "popular wagons?" Especially when John Cage starts to feel convinced that Sailor Moon could be Scum in the next paragraph. Bad reason to go after Kyon. And then brings up the NK analysis WIFOM. In hindsight, that post is pretty terrible. Your #348 was inconclusive on your analysis of Gumshoe's case on Chitose, saying it wasn't half bad and you could see a few things wrong with it, but didn't clarify what. Also: "Mm, pretty sure Chitose is misrepping Mai, but I'm not certain. It'd be better to let Mai prove her wrong anyway." So another post that looks bad after Chitose's flip. There's continued indecision about Chitose in Day 3. And Comedian defends you a little in #532. Skipping ahead to your Night 4 post, it looks like you set up Crocker to be your primary lynch over Chitose.

Goddamnit, another thing about you replacing in is that oldJohnCage at least stated who he would like lynched before the Day began. NewJohnCage doesn't do that, it's a more passive style casting suspicion on 2 people: Crocker and Chitose in N4, Crocker and Monoe in N5. This lack of announcement of a top pick also bugs me. Assuming if you're Town, you never know when your final post at Night could be your last in the game. I would imagine you'd at least firmly declare what your intentions were at Night before we see Night results. You leaving your opinions more fluid and inconclusive fits more with Scum play waiting to see what the best option for the new Day would be. Even now, you look like you're resigning yourself to defeat, not even picking a scum target and that bugs me as a player regardless of your alignment.

That's a look at his early day actions and most of it still holds. Then from the time he replaces in, his first action is to unvote Anony and go on Proto. Since I ended up doing the same sometime later and we both can't be Scum, I leave that to Mai to judge who did it for Scum reasons. Cage then seems to have been prepping a Chitose case on #724 while still saying Anonymous is very bad. He acknowledges the CATS cut but still decides to put his vote on Chitose. This is a vote on a brand new wagon with under 2 hours left in Day 4. In other words, this is a direct avoidance of either prominent wagon at the end of the Day. Also, this is before Comedian tries his counter claim. He did not commit to anything until the wagon was pretty much sealed. Then he unvotes and ends up arguing with Mai at the end.

To recap on his N4 post, he prioritizes a Crocker lynch over Chitose. And starting Day 5, he makes no attempt to say he would vote for first in #786. As we can see, such a distinction is critical as one has flipped Town and one has flipped Scum. He does more Comedian analysis... I dunno, something he could have done at Night. By then, CATS and I had committed to ScumChitose and Proto and Mai had committed to Cage. Cage's #789 is a "whatever, I will just answer questions today". He does not bother to analyze anything. After that, Crocker at least verbally commits to Chitose in #791. So, Cage never said who he was going to vote first at the start of Day 5. If we take his Night 4 post into account though, he was going to go Crocker. Then Mai asks for all of us to put our 3 Scum picks down. After some cajoling by Mai, Cage says:

I want Chitose and Crocker lynched in that order. I'm not really sure about my third scum pick, since it's pretty much all over for me anyway if Chitose flips town, and I'm either first or second in all the lynch orders so far. Assuming Lylo with you and Monoe, I would have to say your play doesn't seem scum motivated, but I have trouble understanding your logic. Having your cases whould be immensely helpful for understanding your mindset. I also have some trouble understanding Monoe; she mentioned becoming really unmotivated in the later days; which I have trouble understanding from a town perspective. From a scum perspective though, her being somewhat targetted as scum by Protoman could really demotivate her. The last time I played scum, a measely fingerpoint utterly destroyed my motivation to play the game, so while I don't understand why a fingerpoint would cause Monoe's loss of motivation as town, I do understand why scum would break under a little pressure. However, I have heard of town losing motivation as well, so I'm not sure how good the tell is. K4U, for example, mentioned losing all her motivation to play under accusation even though she was town. Not enough to quit outright, but she was still really demotivated.

Since I can't ask old Monoe what her mindset was after she quit, I would like to see more posts from new Monoe and your cases on Chitose and Crocker before I decide on my third scum pick.

There's no reasoning for why he switched the order... He has one sentence about his top 2 scumpicks. And he held back for the longest time on committing to anything, almost 48 hours. The rest of Day 5 are some random posts and then Crocker had to push Cage to make a committing statement about Chitose's roleclaim in #872-873. This ends Day 5 analysis where I see a lot of non-committment and based on his N4 post, an initial committment to a mislynch.

---

Cut by Cage: Simple question: If you were indeed a Survivor (Protoman thought you were 3rd party so the belief isn't as completely crazy as just me thinking it), nobody else could confirm it until you flipped. So why would I as Scum alienate a possible Survivor before Day 6 ended? Because as you say, if you were a Survivor and I pissed you off as I seem to be doing now, my chances of getting the so-called Survivor sympathy vote in LYLO drops to nil. That's dumb for me as Scum to do. However small a chance that you as a Survivor would give me sympathy, I could always have held off on attacking you until Day 7 started with the hope that you would just claim Survivor and say you'll lynch Mai with me right at the start. No hassle for me to bite my tongue from just the end of Day 6 to the beginning of Day 7 on you. I placed you second before Day 6 ended because I'm Town, playing like a Townie, and covering all my bases. You're a player that has not committed to Scum wagons until the outcome had long since been finalized.

And since Mai maybe hasn't seen this. I will also direct all of our attention to Cage's last Day 6 post.

You did ask me to wait for him.

And I was curious to see whether Monoe was willing to go for the hammer or not.

Anyway, I can talk more about this tonight.

##Vote: Mr. Crocker

Why does this look like you weren't convinced Crocker would flip as the last Scum and we'd get right to the postgame after your vote? Why does this look like the worst textbook scumslip I've ever seen? Mai, consider this. Cage, answer this. I'm going to follow up on this in my later post covering Cage Day 6.

Mai: Give me a sec, I'll answer your questions shortly.

[Faiz]

Vote: Monoe
 
JUST AS PLANNED.

[Faiz]

[Kick Hopper]

Vote: Monoe
 
JUST AS PLANNED.

Should have known.

The player I thought you were

1. Looks much more scummy.
2. Would have quickhammered.

[Kilgamayan]

Stop talking, the game is over!

[Kilgamayan]

Monoe the Vanilla Townie, with the power to do nothing special, had her lightswitch turned off for the last time!

John Cage the Unstopping Believer, equipped with a nighttime microphone, was born to sing the blues!

Mai Tokiha the Gate Guard, with the power to prevent forward movement, finally got a pay raise and a promotion!

Scum win!

[Conqueror]

* Conqueror slow claps.

Well played, LLD, well played.

[UncertainJakutten]

And this is why apathy kills towns \o/!

I was the original Cage and quite honestly didn't care enough about this game to be useful. I'm really sorry to everyone for that, and my performance was inexcusable. The scum team did a good job.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

NEVER VANILLA.
NEVER.

Good game, all.
Also, Durrmio talks to nobody for over 150 posts: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/7fRUCRiRAPw

[capt. h]

Who's LLD?

And why can't town ever be that obvtown?

This is my Bah post.

(I'm the new Cage).

[Hanged Hourai]

Blargh. This game was amusing for me to say the least.

Also, UK, I figured out Cage was you since your confirmation. Kilga can attest to this.

[Lexicat]

Well, that was fun~.
 
I enjoyed those last few days <3

[Conqueror]

I have to say though, congrats to John Cage. Mafia Traitor is a really hard role to play, but he correctly identified and defended the scum team at every opportunity.

I'm joking, don't sweat.

[PX]

Dammit Capt. Always vote who looks towniest to you in 3 person Lylo

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Well damn. I kind of blame myself for this loss. Not only was I pretty much fucking insane after D1, but had dealt with one more day with replacing out, I would have likely switched to Chitose mid-day, which may have given new!Monoe (were you Kiro?) the cred he needed to not die horribly from all my D1-D3 slipups. However, I think the biggest factor in our loss overall was simply the majority of town (Moon, Prinny, Kyon, Anon, and so on) tripping over itself, while scum stayed in the background played solidly enough to avoid suspicion. Ah well.

Aside from that, I'm eager to see how the guesses worked out, since I felt a lot of players (including myself) were obvious this game, which probably means they actually weren't and I was wrong. Oh boy.

Also, Kilga, it'd be neat if you posted the sources for all the role names (or at least it would be in my opinions, as I am a fan of quirky role names). Curly Brace was pretty obvious, and I was under the impression that the Unstopping Believer could talk at night as a result of taking the midnight train going anywhere, but I had no real guess for most of the others (if they were even intended as obscure references).

[Shadoweh]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

*Protoman has bluescreened! NAVI DELETED*

[Furienify]

Wow. I thought Mai was UK. Anyways, ProtomanxMai OTP even if one is a traitor.

The game got a lot better past day 3 or so when people dropped the haughty.

Edit to clarify that I was just spectating.

[capt. h]

Well damn. I kind of blame myself for this loss. Not only was I pretty much fucking insane after D1, but had dealt with one more day with replacing out, I would have likely switched to Chitose mid-day, which may have given new!Monoe (were you Kiro?) the cred he needed to not die horribly from all my D1-D3 slipups. However, I think the biggest factor in our loss overall was simply the majority of town (Moon, Prinny, Kyon, Anon, and so on) tripping over itself, while scum stayed in the background played solidly enough to avoid suspicion. Ah well.

Aside from that, I'm eager to see how the guesses worked out, since I felt a lot of players (including myself) were obvious this game, which probably means they actually weren't and I was wrong. Oh boy.

Also, Kilga, it'd be neat if you posted the sources for all the role names (or at least it would be in my opinions, as I am a fan of quirky role names). Curly Brace was pretty obvious, and I was under the impression that the Unstopping Believer could talk at night as a result of taking the midnight train going anywhere, but I had no real guess for most of the others (if they were even intended as obscure references).

Wait, YOU were the player that spent all of day 6 on setup speculation?

EDIT: NVM.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I stopped playing D4.

I have no idea who Lambda is at all aside from some Umineko person. <_< I figured that UK was Mai and Cage was the mystery player who knew her, not the other way around. Was I left out of the loop again because I don't actively visit meido or something?

[UncertainJakutten]

I only bothered guessing LLD and Shadoweh. I only got LLD right. Actually thought Monoe was Shadoweh :V

@Conq: Actually, I thought I was playing a pretty dapper Survivor myself!

@HH: If anyone DIDN'T figure out who I was, they were silly. If it wasn't obvious through D1, it sure as hell was N1

OH! Crocker: After every post, you said "Gonna get this out there". Why? I thought you had a PR but you flipped vanilla o.O

[Lexicat]

I am Lady Lambdadelta.
 
Also known as LLD.
 
Also known as Mai Tokiha.
 
My victory was certain from the beginning~!