Mafia History Mafia - Game Over

[Kilgamayan]

John Cage (1): Mai Tokiha
Monoe (1): Protoman.EXE

No vote cast: John Cage, Monoe, Mr. Crocker

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. You have 47.5 hours remaining.

[Kick Hopper]

Protoman, before you get to happy about lynching Monoe, I have a concern.

Monoe wasn't playing night 4. And CATS told us he was roleblocked on night 4.

[Decade]

That has never stopped actions from being taken before. The Old Monoe was not gone from the face of the planet. He could have sent in his action while waiting for someone to take over.

[Kick Hopper]

So your theory is that Chitose, who's power makes her "nigh untouchable", and Monoe decided to use a roleblock on CATS and kill Anonymous? Even though Monoe had left before CATS revealed his role?

This is speculation, but which players did you think CATS would have been most likely to cop-check on day 4? Keep in mind that his first choice was Anonymous.

[Faiz]

I wanna see where everyone stands... This might help me discern who is scum, based upon who wants who lynched today (past interactions will help with that).
 
Everyone: who is your preferred lynch candidate for today?
 
I'm still at Cage right now, but I'm starting to lean towards Crocker. Let's say Cage right nowzz

[Decade]

Protoman prefers Cage or Monoe. Protoman is leaning towards Monoe.

Monoe asked for a replacement early. There is no reason to assume his player was not still here to send in the night action during the night. Protoman doesn't have to guess, CATS targetted you, Cage. And who else would the roleblocker have blocked besides the claimed cop?

Protoman thanks both of you for not reading or addressing his case. Protoman is used to this feeling by now.

[Ryuki]

Ok reread done. Mai is not one of my picks anymore.

The way Chitose attacked her in #100 and questioned in #157 is completely different from the way she mentioned Comedian. Chitose was setting her up to argue with townies and to elaborate cases on them. Argues with her over Gumshoe before giving up.

Monoe looks worse upon reread. This is a ranting stream of thoughts and observations I apologize if it is not concise.

Goes from a Comedian second pick to looking better, which is suspicious.
Keeps vote on Moon, but constantly says Kyon's attack on Comedian is bad.
Does some cheerleading of Prinny wagon, but stays off to the side.
 Adds a lot of fuel to Moon wagon, to move off for the reason of it had too many people.
Then moves to Kyon for Comedian stuff, and for getting off Moon, which Monoe had just done.
Asks Whim solely for opinions of the town wagons, not other people.
 D2 starts out with trust in Chitose for a good CATS vote, which is what.
Clears Light for questionable reasons as he became a wagon, to go back to saying his case could make sense.
Says she agrees with Chitose's vote in hindsight, but she isn't looking townie. Somewhat contradictory.
Clears Comedian's vote on Prinny, then says he is one of the people who looks good,
Went from Chitose being trustworthy on the Prinny wagon to saying she should be under scrutiny, but never does any of it herself in the post.
Put off a Chitose reread forever, and it hinges on a Kyon scumbuddy, which scum would know won't happen. Reads as a clear after a Kyon flip.
Puts Comedian at top of super townie list, but never really says what she likes about him.
#588 super defends the Comedian
That brings us to D5, where Chitose was super bussed.

I'll get to Cage later. I will say however, that I like the idea of Monoe scum more now.

[Faiz]

Protoman, please cut Mai-chan a little slack this time.
 
I'm running a fever of 101 F, and I am dying from a throbing headache here.
 
I couldn't digest your case if I tried.
 
I'm asking this question so I have something to look back for when I come back tomorrow and am not as ... Dead?
 
Trust me, It'll get read, and I'll consider it greatly. This is an important lynch for the town. If we get it wrong here, at best we have lylo. At worst, a third party and scum joint.

[Decade]

Oh, Protoman doesn't understand your operator viruses. Protoman can't delete fevers. :ohdear:
There is still plenty of time to digest, Protoman can wait for Mai to be more lucid. Protoman agrees this is an important time for town. Protoman is treating today like LYLO, because to Protoman we have been in LYLO since Day 4.

Protoman agrees with what Crock Pot noticed about Monoe and Sailor Moon. Protoman thought it was interesting that Monoe said Kyon looked like a virus fleeing the Moon wagon that was predicted to die out, when Monoe left the wagon at the same time. Crock Pot, what do you think of New Monoe's post from Day 5? Protoman has brought up his issues with them, but Protoman wants to hear what the other Navis think of them. Protoman also wants to hear Crock Pot's opinion about what Monoe thinks about Cage. Monoe also seems to think Cage is a third party.

[Decade]

Before Protoman forgets to mention this again:

Sailor Moon's wagon is gaining speed rather fast, which makes me nervous. It should be noted that Shitaisan's vote puts her at L-2, due to Crocker's joke vote.

The paranoia about Sailor Moon's wagon is funny in retrospect because...

Sailor Moon (7): Mr. Crocker, Anonymous, Mai Tokiha, Monoe, Protoman.EXE, Light Yagami, Kyon (+ a Prinny next post)

There was nothing but town voting for her! Town and ONE virus. It's amusing so many people on this wagon are still alive.

[Kick Hopper]

Protoman prefers Cage or Monoe. Protoman is leaning towards Monoe.

Monoe asked for a replacement early. There is no reason to assume his player was not still here to send in the night action during the night. Protoman doesn't have to guess, CATS targetted you, Cage. And who else would the roleblocker have blocked besides the claimed cop?

Protoman thanks both of you for not reading or addressing his case. Protoman is used to this feeling by now.

No, I've read it, and I'm sorry for not responding that I've read it. I actually had to read it twice and new Monoe's responses three times; new Monoe said a lot of interesting things that took a while to think about. In my reread I noticed that new Monoe herself declared CATS the only confirmed townie before CATS died; which would explain why CATS was killed over you. She completely neglected to mention my role in her starting case against me, and once you brought up the possibility that I was third party she concluded I was a survivor and said that the best form of action for me was to try to quick lynch her and beg scum to let me live.

To be honest though, I did have some trouble following it the first time. I have kept up with the game, but even with the quotes I wasn't quite as invested in the game as you were at the beginning, since I wasn't a player at the time.

New Cage is arguing based on logic and not really looking at Navis hard enough.

You know, I love logic. I trust logic.

Anyway, your Monoe case feels much more natural than my Crocker case. By that, I mean I can see the intent behind Monoe's posts, whereas a lot of the connections I see around Crocker feel artificial; they're mostly logic based (with one of them outright being the lack of posts between scum), and don't really cover his interactions with scum. If the logic holds, I think Monoe is more likely.

-CUT-

From day 2:

Sailor Moon (7): Mai Tokiha, Light Yagami, Anonymous, Kyon, John Cage, Protoman.EXE, Mr. Crocker

Zero scum actually lynched her if Monoe flips scum.

I'm actually not surprised. She was the most obvious scum that I've seen flip town. It's not like she needed help getting herself lynched.

[Decade]

You know, I love logic. I trust logic.

You can't let common logic hold you back in Mafia! 

Protoman would have to check, but he thinks Monoe brought up the possibility of Cage being a Survivor first, on Day 5. Cage also pointed out that Comedian only referenced Monoe 9 times.Protoman doesn't remember Comedian ever stating his opinion on Monoe, it was just answers to questions yes?

[Decade]

Yeah, found it.

There is also the wild card in John Cage's ability to talk at Night. Could fit Town, Scum, or even a Survivor (who we still ought to lynch if claimed). I'm going to treat that power as completely neutral though as it doesn't affect other people directly.

[Kick Hopper]

You can't let common logic hold you back in Mafia! 

Protoman would have to check, but he thinks Monoe brought up the possibility of Cage being a Survivor first, on Day 5. Cage also pointed out that Comedian only referenced Monoe 9 times.Protoman doesn't remember Comedian ever stating his opinion on Monoe, it was just answers to questions yes?

Pretty much. Everything the Comedian said about Monoe can be summarized as

1: Mentioning Monoe in his attacks on Kyon
2: Agreeing with Monoe's wagon analysis
3:

Assuming a LyLo with Cage, CATS, Comedian, Crocker, Chitose, Monoe, and Protoman... 

Yeah, I think I agree with you on Monoe, the more I think about it. I went back and looked at Chitose's strategy yesterday more carefully. If she was trying to distance herself from Crocker to help Crocker along, she probably would have been better off claiming scum and saying nothing. They both started the day with disagreeing with my cases strongly, but Chitose came out of the gate casting suspicion and attention directly at Crocker in spite of disagreeing with me. It's  Monoe who continues the Crocker momentum Chitose created, which pretty much cemented Crocker as most of town's third pick.

Mind you, I'm not saying scum bussing can't go wrong, but I don't think Chitose was doing Crocker any favors.

Her comments on Monoe in answer to you were also interesting, especially in light of her flip.

I think it's a little premature to make a case on Monoe given that most of what I feel is scummy about her is linked to her clearing of Mai (e.g defending her when not called for) without much evidence of thought during the Kyon-Mai thing on D3  and her lack of presence from late-D3 to early-D5.  There's also some evidence of trying to be able to fit into any wagon today due to her saying that my Crocker case was good (but not following up on that), but other than that she did find original reasons to press me and original stuff to add onto other cases.  To be honest, she does seem quite clean other than the above, and barring a Mai scum flip, I don't think I will be very hard in pursuing her for now.  Crocker and Mai are far better targets and more questionable.

"Day 5 is too early to make a case on Monoe, but she's kind of scummy. But she has good original ideas. If Mai flips scum, I'll look into her."

To me it looks like Chitose was trying to keep Monoe in the background while bringing Crocker and Mai front and center. She went through a lot of effort to be neutral on Monoe while drawing as much attention as possible to myself and Crocker.

I agree on Monoe, Protoman. Chitose's actions yesterday either ended horribly wrong due to incrediderp, or she was trying to get town to ignore Monoe.

[Sasword]

Protoman thinks appealing to Cage quickhammering you as a reason not to vote for you is odd.

Way to misrep what I said:

However, I don't want anyone else to vote me yet.

Notice the "yet." I'm fully aware I can't properly defend for my predecessor's actions and early Monoe looks terrible. I just want people to realize that putting me at L-1 early is risky and not because I'd self-hammer. Frankly, Cage as a Survivor doesn't care who appeals to him in a 3 person LYLO. The Townie in that group can't vote the Survivor because the Scum will say fuck it and lynch the Survivor then NK the Townie. Thus, Townie has to vote the Scum. The Scum in that group won't get anywhere voting the Survivor so he has to vote the Townie. So the Survivor merely flips a coin and decides who wins with him. Protoman is very confident that Cage is a Survivor and that I am Scum. The problem is he is WRONG about me. And Town will pay dearly if you let that sway you and flat out disregard the evidence that John Cage is the most likely to be Scum over Proto, over me, over everyone else.

A note about me going for Protoman second: In a head-to-head between me and Protoman, don't you think I would be at a disadvantage against him? Am I as Scum really confident that I can beat Proto head on? Of course not. Please remember this if we get to LYLO and it's Proto, me, and a 3rd. Give me some fucking credit and that as either alignment, I at least know what I'm doing. Which means you are required to look at my Proto case to get a more complete read on what alignment I might be. To me, there are serious merits to the Proto case and serious behavioral patterns to consider. If you're thinking about lynching me today, then read Protoman today. This lack of read on Protoman from the other 3 players is disheartening. It's no excuse to say he's got a lot of content or that he is confirmed... because he is not confirmed. I read through him and you all need to acknowledge at least the points I made. Find the post numbers in my case and get back to me.

To reiterate, Proto is not even my first choice. None of what has transpired in Day 6 has changed my original view. John Cage is still the scummiest player in the game and the most likely to be Scum. He is still my first choice of lynch target. The fact that he is the only likely one to be a Survivor is coincidental. But that does not mean I'm going to abandon lynching him first because I'm scared it will drop Town into true LYLO if he flips Survivor. I think it is more likely he will flip Scum than Protoman will flip Scum.

[Decade]

Way to misrep what I said. Protoman doesn't think Cage is a Survivor, that's you. Protoman thinks Cage is just as likely to not win with Town. The chance that he can is simply greater then a town/scum dual victory.

Hey, I did give you credit. Protoman fully believes you as a virus would still have deleted him in the night despite showing Protoman's weak points and tried to delete Crock Pot tomorrow. Protoman said so when you asked what he thought your endgame would be. Protoman agrees that by the definition he's not confirmed town. Protoman has done alot of dopey things stumbling his way through the days. Even now Protoman has to acknowledge he could be wrong and Crock Pot could be giggling insanely in his quicktopic with his Fairy Godparents. Protoman is willing to take this chance to pursue what he believes in.

[Decade]

Protoman is going to start playing his Green Day midi soon.

I walk this empty street
On the Boulevard of Broken Dreams
Where the city sleeps
and I'm the only one and I walk alone

[Sasword]

Proto: I know you're going to read me and respond to me. You do realize that in making a case that you're the last virus if John Cage isn't, that I believe you won't be deleted tonight. If I intended to pursue you with a secondary case in Day 6 (even before you got yours out in another one of your questionable reactionary traps), and then delete you at Night, it would make my scumhunting from Day 6 look questionable. The steamroll over a TownCrocker wouldn't be quite as certain as if I had ignored Proto and cemented Crocker as my second. Why you would or wouldn't be deleted tonight rather than any other previous Night is a question to consider with no clear answer. But seriously, if you say new Monoe doesn't matter, then I shouldn't have bothered replacing in and chance letting Kilga modkill Monoe effectively disrupting what had become a very interesting game. And yes, you would have had LYLO today and I believe Kilga would have disabled the No Lynch mechanic for 4 person LYLO.

The fact that neither John Cage or Crocker have been as active (I'm excusing Mai for fever and most Townieness) is troubling. I didn't do the Crocker reread what with the two of us taking all the talking slots today so I will do it now. But off of my memory, John Cage made the good point that Comedian talked about Crocker the least on Night 4, even less than Chitose. So from a ScumCrocker point of view, if TownProto suddenly brought up the Comedian case and the Anony wagon disappeared like that with Cage and Mai dropping off, Comedian is in real danger. Crocker stalled. Then the Cop claim killed any chance Anony would die and Crocker finally has to commit to Comedian. In Day 5, Chitose is the second one to post and goes right for Crocker over John Cage. You could see Chitose's case as a potential buddying up to John Cage as well after Cage tipped his hand about who he would pursue first. Gonna reread her case a bit. That would set the stage for ScumCrocker to be alive in LYLO and that's probably one of the better scenarios Scum could have drawn up after Comedian was offed.

Opinions please while I finally continue the reread.

[Sasword]

EBWOP: Chitose went for Crocker first, Mai second, not John Cage. My mistake.

[Faiz]

Proto, I have a question for you.
 
I agree with a LOT of your Monoe case.
 
And I find her most recent post to be extremely scummy. She's backing off you now and trying to find the Cage or Crocker lynch.
 
I'm leaning more and more towards you potentially being right.
 
But I also have this odd feeling that you vs. Monoe might be Town vs. Town. It's not based on reasoning really. It truly is a gut read, and one I can't seem to shake.
 
BUT, I have a few problems.
 
Cage and Crocker have both now jumped onboard your idea and have both stated they are willing to ride it. I'm really scared because beyond saying "I agree" they haven't really done much else. (Nor have I, but I'm working on that.)
 
So if you want me to vote for Monoe, you're going to have to convince me that there isn't a scum in Cage/Crocker that is trying to be opportunistic and avoid the lynch today, so to head into lylo.
 
Show me why Cage and Crocker are town, if Monoe is scum. (Or at worst third party).
 

[Decade]

Protoman could have worded that less bluntly and apologizes. Protoman does have issues with New Monoe as well. Earlier days are just more telling. The thing is, you asked us to bring up what we found off about your former operator's play so you could address the issues. When Protoman brings up things Old Monoe did wrong, your only answer is Old Monoe looked horrible and you can't defend her actions. Asking us to pretend your former self never happened and to only judge you on the day you voted for a virus, well.. Protoman thinks you simply can't defend Monoe because you know Old Monoe was also a virus.

Protoman thinks your interactions with Chitose were suspicious and Chitose's case on you was horrible. Chitose made a case based on voting patterns were bad "and stuff like that" and based your alignment around Mai's townliness. Then Chitose attacked Crocker for not acknowledging Chitose's case on Mai and Monoe when Crock Pot has considered Mai town and there is no way to consider Chitose's case on Monoe if someone thinks Mai is town. During your argument with Chitose, Chitose asked you questions about why you were defending Mai and asking the questions Mai was suposed to ask "and stuff like that" that you didn't answer. It almost looked like Chitose was attacking you, except when called to pursue you Chitose said you looked quite clean, except possibly Day 3 and above. Well, Protoman has already dispelled that idea.

Monoe is certainly implying he does not believe Protoman will be deleted tonight. The other line of thought for that is Mai has become unlynchable due to being the virus target for so long and would make an equally good deletion. Protoman has considered this, but no, I think you would have killed me and taken Mai with you. It would depend on if you expected me to attack you over your case or to continue tunneling on Cage and Crock Pot today. I already showed I don't believe making a case on myself is the epitome of virus intent with Cage.


Mai: I honestly can't see a scum Cage at this point. Cage doesn't have much collusion with the other viruses intent-wise. Old Cage was very much out for himself and no one else, and alot of his questionable play looks like someone trying to avoid attention from both sides. His very blatant buddying up to Chitose in his N1 analysis doesn't fit with the laying low attitude of Comedian and Chitose. Most importantly on Day 3 Cage did not care about any of the cases except the one on himself. Cage is all that matters to Cage.

As for Crocker, he has posted his own take on Monoe's earlier days himself that Mai can look at. Protoman agrees he needs to come back and address more of Monoe's posts from today so we can judge his intent better, and Protoman has asked him to do so. He is the other main suspect right now. Crock Pot did not have the narrowed view many people are implying in previous days. Crock Pot suspected many people, many times. He asked questions, took chances, and made a bunch of mistakes. Protoman thinks Crock Pot looks more like stumbling town then a lurking virus.

[Faiz]

And what if Monoe flips town?
 

 

[Faiz]

I'm working in hypotheticals right now Proto because I want all our bases covered.
 
I only ask because I feel that if Monoe flips town, one of me or you will die the following night. No scum in their right mind would kill Crocker or Cage (assuming a Monoe town flip).
 
And then Lylo would include both Cage and Crocker.
 
So I'm trying to get opinions on the table, so we don't have anything we regret not saying should we die.

[Faiz]

Also, I have a question:
 
What do people think about Chitose's push on Crocker yesterday?
 
What do people think about Chitose's total apathy/ignoring towards Cage throughout the game?

[Decade]

And what if Monoe flips town?

Protoman will delete himself Protoman can ask the same thing about Cage and Crock Pot. Protoman can't answer that until we see the flip. This is why Protoman wants to hear more from Crock Pot today. Protoman thinks he answered the question about Chitose's push on Crock Pot, but he will go look up if Chitose said anything about Cage.

[Kick Hopper]

Protoman will delete himself Protoman can ask the same thing about Cage and Crock Pot. Protoman can't answer that until we see the flip. This is why Protoman wants to hear more from Crock Pot today. Protoman thinks he answered the question about Chitose's push on Crock Pot, but he will go look up if Chitose said anything about Cage.

Pre-day 5 or day 5 itself?

Chitose said a LOT about me on day 5.

[Ryuki]

Crock Pot, what do you think of New Monoe's post from Day 5? Protoman has brought up his issues with them, but Protoman wants to hear what the other Navis think of them. Protoman also wants to hear Crock Pot's opinion about what Monoe thinks about Cage.

It is harder to judge intents since Chitose was bussed hard as new Monoe replaced in.

First few posts were attacking Chitose and some suspicions at me. Next post, fence sits on a real opinion of Cage, but a lot of "weird" and  "bothers me." Next post, I become an interchangeable pick with Cage, with Cage looking worse at a Chitose flip. Note that at this time, everyone was naming their picks and most chose Cage as their second.

Does some setup speculation that looks like well-spoken fluff. Especially since it ends with

Nothing conclusive about this and this treads into a dangerous area, but I will put it forth for consideration

Then Monoe asks me to explain some of my posts. No opinion given on them at the time. I explain and Monoe just drops it. Still no opinion given on them or followed up on.

What I think about how Monoe thinks about Cage is that she sees him as the most likely mislynch before moving to me afterwards.

If I missed questions or if you have any, please feel free to ask.

[Kick Hopper]

Anyway, if Monoe flips town, I'll be going after Crocker as hard as I can. Protoman has done a lot of questionable things, but I don't see any scum intent in them. For example, he began today by gauging everyone's opinions and getting a feel for where they all stand before making cases, which is scummy. However, instead of using it to weigh the viability of a case against me like a scum might, he did it to try to find scum intent in the other players' actions and see how they handle the flips. Most the things that Protoman does which make himself look bad are followed through as a gambit that helps catch other scum, which eliminates any intent they could have had.

I can't even imagine Mai being scum, honestly.

And you all know my reasons for thinking Crocker is scum.

[Decade]

Protoman meant to say Day 6. The program that parsed Day 5 has been sacked. Crock Pot, Protoman means he wants you to give an opinion on this and this and also this post. What do you read New Monoe's intentions as and what do you think of his opinions on Protoman and Cage? Do you think his opinions have merit or do they sound suspicious? These are important distinctions that Protoman needs explained from you.

[Faiz]

OK, Proto here's the deal.
 
I'm fully willing to lynch Monoe today. I read your case, and I'm shocked that I've overlooked so much.
 
Actually, I guess it isn't all that surprising. I've spent this game in a tunnel, why should I be changing now? :roll:
 
However, IF YOU ARE WRONG, I think it will probably be I who dies tonight.
 
Which means this game will be in your hands in lylo (disregarding any third party bullshit).
 
Capable hands I'm sure, but I want to be sure you are fully prepared.
 
I want to discuss both Cage and Crocker as scum. The place to start would obviously be to compare side by side how our two flipped scum (Comedian,Chitose) interacted with these two.
 
I know you are pro Cage-town due to role mechanics and other things, but I'll remind you that you had a scum read on him just as I do. I want you to be careful not to throw away potential suspicion based upon something that could be considered outguessing the mod and setup speculation.
 
Here are the 5 factors I think need to be looked at. Of course, this only applies in the situation where Monoe is town, but I digress:
 
1) Flipped Scum's Stances on them
2) Their Stances on Flipped Scum
3) Their cases and general activity
4) Their Presence on Town Wagons
5) Motivation for their actions (I.E: Is what they are doing truly from a town perspective, or does it have scum intent?)
 
I think we need to decide together today who is more likely scum of the two before we can even CONSIDER lynching Monoe. We can't be unprepared at this point in the game.
 
Do you agree? Or am I just being paranoid? >.<