Mafia History Mafia - Game Over

[Sasword]

I'm around. Going to do the full rereads now. Still leaning Cage atm.

[Faiz]

I dunno, I just found it unlikely that one person could have two very different powers.
...Unless the "unreliable" part of CAT's flip meant that he had no blocker. I initially interpreted it as unreliable results. So there may not be a roleblocker after all. Argh, this is bordering setup WIFOM, so I'm just sticking to what I believe, which is Cage scum.

New replies
Oh, that makes more sense now. Yeah, I like the idea of Cage scum even more now.

I, uh... missed that part of CATS' flip...
 
That's interesting.

[Kick Hopper]

I, uh... missed that part of CATS' flip...
 
That's interesting.

Mai, honestly? Who do you think is more likely to conclude CATS roleblocked himself? Do YOU even believe CATS roleblocked himself?

I want you to consider what makes sense, rather than blindly push forward whatever theory makes your top picks out as scum.

[Faiz]

Mai, honestly? Who do you think is more likely to conclude CATS roleblocked himself? Do YOU even believe CATS roleblocked himself?

I want you to consider what makes sense, rather than blindly push forward whatever theory makes your top picks out as scum.

Oh, I'm still firmly of the belief that you have a roleblocking ability in addition to your night speak.
 
I just find it interesting that Crocker is trying to paint THAT light instead of the more obvious reasoning.
 

[Kick Hopper]

Oh, I'm still firmly of the belief that you have a roleblocking ability in addition to your night speak.
 
I just find it interesting that Crocker is trying to paint THAT light instead of the more obvious reasoning.
 

Mai, do you actually think it makes sense for me to be a scum roleblocker with the ability to talk at night, or are you just going with it because then you don't have to change your mind?

I know you absolutely hate to change your reads on anyone. Ever. Under any circumstance.

[Faiz]

I don't change my reads based on setup speculation.
 
This defense you are throwing up is little more than "please try to outguess the mod".
 

[Decade]

Protoman suposes he is just waiting for Monoe then. Protoman will think about what CATS's role means to him. Protoman still wants us to discuss the worst case scenario today.

[Kick Hopper]

This is total bullshit. Sorry. No.
 
This game isn't bastardly. There's no way that the mod put a role like this in the game.
 
Especially why Kyon's role has already shown this trait. He wouldn't use it twice. That's just fucking over town.

Mai, what I'm trying to get at is that you yourself wouldn't believe a player that claimed the role you claim I have. If you wouldn't believe the roleclaim, then you shouldn't assume the roleclaim. It's a matter of the simplest solution is usually the best, and in this case, the simplest solution is that one of the players who hasn't claimed yet is a roleblocker.

Honestly, I actually think Crocker's solution is more likely than yours by the "simplest solution" standard. For me, the answer is very straight-forward - one of the other living players is a roleblocker, and just a roleblocker. Though I'm pretty sure Crocker was just looking for a way for me to be scum in spite of not having a roleblock. At least Crocker has a reason to bend over backwards trying to show that I can be scum - he's next on the chopping block.

The player that's most likely to have a role blocking ability is the one who had the greatest interest in hearing the roles of other players earlier in the day. I'm not sure which of us that would be right now, so I'm probably going to have to read a lot of posts before the end of day 6.

Protoman - worst case scenario? You're scum. Mai and you are in Lylo with Crocker. Honestly, if you and Mai are both in Lylo with Crocker, than Crocker would have to be town because there's absolutely no chance that Mai would vote for anyone other than Crocker, and there's no chance that Mai would vote for you. Heck, if you and Mai are in Lylo with Crocker, I have no doubt whatsoever that you're scum. But Mai will vote Crocker anyway.

Anyway, good game Protoman!

[Faiz]

There is too much I don't know for me to clear you from being scum on the basis you are providing.
 
And since I can't confirm you as town, I go back to my read on you.
 
And my read is scum.
 
So that's my vote and reasoning.
 
I will give you this though. Crocker just sent up RED FLAGS in my head when he tried to play the "CATS roleblocked himself" argument. Like... Major red flags.
 
Because scum would want to explain it that way. It hides their roleblocker, and prevents you from gaining any kind of town cred from your roleclaim.
 
Really, it only served to make me more sure the final scum lays in you/Crocker. But it certainly set off my scumdar.
 

[Decade]

I waited for you, Protoman.

(seriously though, are you still wanting me to stick around or)

I waited for you, Monoe.

(seriously though, Protoman's operator is getting sleepy are you going to post tonight or)

Protoman would comment on Cage's worst case scenario but Protoman is hoping the viruses will stop insulting him by not leaving him alive tomorrow and such a case will be revealed as the silliness it is.

[Sasword]

I'm still rereading. Yes... still. I will post within the next 2 hours. Just read it in the morning.

[Sasword]

Wall is approaching. I built it with tender loving care... ahahahahaha, no. There was a shit-ton to read and I started glazing over from Page 18 and on. So, no, I didn't even finish the reread and you're going to get a ton more to read. TL:DR: Cage definitely first, want opinions on Protoman due to some things I noticed. May lean Protoman over Crocker as secondary pick. Mai is not on my suspicion list due to actions of the 2 confirmed Scum.

---

John Cage: Interesting dynamic in that you didn't really bother to read the first 5 pages of the game, then came out with your ability on N1 and start reading then. Why'd you bother with all the angst in Day 1 with Protoman? Argh, I just remembered you're also a replacement too so you can't really answer that... Cage didn't like Kyon in Day 2 with mention of the exchange with Comedian so that looks bad. #267 has Cage wanting Kyon to go for somebody other than Sailor Moon and Light. Why is Kyon compelled to search for people other than the "popular wagons?" Especially when John Cage starts to feel convinced that Sailor Moon could be Scum in the next paragraph. Bad reason to go after Kyon. And then brings up the NK analysis WIFOM. In hindsight, that post is pretty terrible. Your #348 was inconclusive on your analysis of Gumshoe's case on Chitose, saying it wasn't half bad and you could see a few things wrong with it, but didn't clarify what. Also: "Mm, pretty sure Chitose is misrepping Mai, but I'm not certain. It'd be better to let Mai prove her wrong anyway." So another post that looks bad after Chitose's flip. There's continued indecision about Chitose in Day 3. And Comedian defends you a little in #532. Skipping ahead to your Night 4 post, it looks like you set up Crocker to be your primary lynch over Chitose.

Goddamnit, another thing about you replacing in is that oldJohnCage at least stated who he would like lynched before the Day began. NewJohnCage doesn't do that, it's a more passive style casting suspicion on 2 people: Crocker and Chitose in N4, Crocker and Monoe in N5. This lack of announcement of a top pick also bugs me. Assuming if you're Town, you never know when your final post at Night could be your last in the game. I would imagine you'd at least firmly declare what your intentions were at Night before we see Night results. You leaving your opinions more fluid and inconclusive fits more with Scum play waiting to see what the best option for the new Day would be. Even now, you look like you're resigning yourself to defeat, not even picking a scum target and that bugs me as a player regardless of your alignment.

---

Crocker: Very quiet Day 1 with a vote on Prinny. Wasn't correct, but your reasoning was better than a lot of the other D1 votes I read. In Day 2, didn't like Kyon for his vote on Comedian, so a possible passive defense of Comedian, but went for Light. He does push Light in a respectable manner though. Ah... I see, the Day 2 hammer with 22 hours left in the Day. I can see how that fits with your attitude in Day 4. And very quiet Day 3. I actually need to reread you again because Day 3 was too loud with the other 3 players. But I got an impression that your posts seemed alright overall even if you were wrong like most everyone else was.

---

Protoman: All the good stuff about you is known by everyone else here. So let's get to the parts I don't feel so good about. And wow, there's a lot more than I expected. You didn't immediately acknowledge Gumshoe's case on Chitose in your #289 or for several posts after that. That's quite the miss for someone who was actively reading, responding, and asking good questions throughout the game. Gumshoe calls out the "Protoman misreps Monoe" in #317 even though you clarified you dropped it afterwards. Then in #343 is your case on CATS. And it's actually pretty bad. Going on CATS for bad posting is ok, but tacking on that he forgot to mention Chitose after Chitose made a case on CATS is a scumslip?

The passing off of having others make cases for you is SERIOUSLY BAD no matter how badly Town was playing the first 2 days. If you're indeed the so-called Town-God, then put forth the cases you have yourself and judge who agrees/disagrees/parrots you after. You were never correct in your early cases and no one could have known whether you'd be correct or not so doing this feels manipulative in a scummy way. The fact that you chose Anonymous, a person who hadn't been voted, is a little surprising, but it was wrong and you also made the same mistake like Mai does in saying "Anony's words sounds like he knows Sailor Moon is going to flip Town."

Ugh, now I see your thing about having people name 3 scumpicks when at the time, everyone thought there would be 4. Why are you dabbling in such shenanigans? It's amusing that Chitose's #448 actually just highlighted a lot of my misgivings on the Protoman reread. Page 17 and 18 is full of all this craziness along with Mai suspecting a scumslip in #519.

Here's the most unusual thing you've done in a series of unusual things. In Day 5, you first decide to vote Cage, then kinda going "psyche," you unvote with an intent to pursue Chitose instead. Why did you do this series of moves? This happened when the Cage and Chitose wagons were even at 2:2. In between your unvote post and your previous post before isn't a whole lot, but amongst them is Crocker's first Day 5 post signalling intent to vote Chitose. That effectively puts the momentum on Chitose. Why does this matter? It matters if John Cage is Town. If Proto is Scum and needed to switch from a Cage mislynch to a Chitose bus, that would be one opportunity to do so. If Cage doesn't flip Scum, I do think you need to be considered seriously still in true LYLO. Explain why you decided to vote Cage first then made the change?

---

I guess one could conclude that with Crocker going for Light on Day 2 and Day 3, the Scum NK of Light on Night 3 makes Crocker look bad and to some extent, John Cage. So I would wonder why Scum Crocker would advocate that. Furthermore, the Light NK makes Protoman look ok-to-good because it would show he was correct on Light. So the N3 NK choice makes more sense for a team that has ScumProto rather than ScumCrocker.

---

Argh, Mai. These "obvScum" cases like Sailor Moon on Day 2 are too authoritative to my liking. Why you gotta put so much of your own reputation on the line by being so confident? Mai: in your #263, you said you would note a post of Protoman's. Please tell me for what reason? Noticed you also didn't pay Gumshoe's case on Chitose much notice either. And the Day 3 Kyon switch is terrible. But you know what, you're the most likely to be Town out of everyone left. Chitose attacked you in Day 2 and on, you had a very close wagon in Day 3 which wasn't saved by either Chitose or Comedian, but by Anonymous, and Comedian was suspicious of you from Day 3 onwards.


---
CONCLUSION:
John Cage has tons of things going wrong for him and he's gotta go today. But we've got time to discuss. Maybe John Cage should spend time looking over Crocker and Protoman more. If Cage is Town, he will do us a favor to look for things the rest of us might have missed. Augh, I need oldJohnCage here to bounce ideas off about Cage's interactions with Protoman on Day 1 and Day 3. I will be continuing my reread tomorrow, produce more content about Crocker, along with another look at Protoman introducing the Comedian wagon.

For Crocker, I don't want him to be lazy either. If Cage flips Town, you are likely the next hot target and if you're also Town, you might be caught with your pants down. Do your homework as well Teach and think about Protoman, Mai, and myself.

P.S. Fuck, there's 2 red eyes on Sailor Moon's head like Punta and her hair parts like a heart. goddamnit

[Decade]

Monoe, are you still here? Protoman can answer some of your questions but he'd like to know if he has to wait until tomorrow for your replies.

[Decade]

Oh well, Protoman suposes not. Protoman is gonna get this post out there anyways.

Protoman: All the good stuff about you is known by everyone else here. So let's get to the parts I don't feel so good about. And wow, there's a lot more than I expected. You didn't immediately acknowledge Gumshoe's case on Chitose in your #289 or for several posts after that. That's quite the miss for someone who was actively reading, responding, and asking good questions throughout the game. Gumshoe calls out the "Protoman misreps Monoe" in #317 even though you clarified you dropped it afterwards. Then in #343 is your case on CATS. And it's actually pretty bad. Going on CATS for bad posting is ok, but tacking on that he forgot to mention Chitose after Chitose made a case on CATS is a scumslip?

In #343 Protoman's cases were on three people and his vote was on CATS. Protoman doesn't know why CATS missed Chitose, and considering Chitose was a virus it would have looked bad for CATS later if he weren't confirmed town. Protoman picked up on CATS's weird behaviour and took it the wrong way all the way to Day 3 when CATS started giving off cop tells.

The passing off of having others make cases for you is SERIOUSLY BAD no matter how badly Town was playing the first 2 days. If you're indeed the so-called Town-God, then put forth the cases you have yourself and judge who agrees/disagrees/parrots you after. You were never correct in your early cases and no one could have known whether you'd be correct or not so doing this feels manipulative in a scummy way. The fact that you chose Anonymous, a person who hadn't been voted, is a little surprising, but it was wrong and you also made the same mistake like Mai does in saying "Anony's words sounds like he knows Sailor Moon is going to flip Town."

Yeah Protoman can be a dick like that sometimes. Protoman was not going to be the first to start with the cases he had. Right out, that would have been an anti-town play. Protoman knew his case on Cage was going to start a fight. Protoman wanted the rest of town to have a chance to talk rationally before throwing his suspicion at Cage. Oh look, Protoman was right. Cage and Protoman got into a huge fight for the rest of Day 3, Anonymous never got looked at by anyone and town ended up throwing Kyon out the door. But Protoman did get good information from Day 3 in the end, so it wasn't a waste for Protoman.

Ugh, now I see your thing about having people name 3 scumpicks when at the time, everyone thought there would be 4. Why are you dabbling in such shenanigans? It's amusing that Chitose's #448 actually just highlighted a lot of my misgivings on the Protoman reread. Page 17 and 18 is full of all this craziness along with Mai suspecting a scumslip in #519.

Because Protoman wanted to see if anyone would give what Protoman thought was the correct number of viruses. Most Navis didn't give four, actually. Protoman should go look at that. Protoman wonders why you'd take points a confirmed virus held against Protoman as a good source of case material. Also Protoman realized he was effectively confirmed town that day and could push for gambits other Navis couldn't get away with. Protoman is a rebel like that.

Here's the most unusual thing you've done in a series of unusual things. In Day 5, you first decide to vote Cage, then kinda going "psyche," you unvote with an intent to pursue Chitose instead. Why did you do this series of moves? This happened when the Cage and Chitose wagons were even at 2:2. In between your unvote post and your previous post before isn't a whole lot, but amongst them is Crocker's first Day 5 post signalling intent to vote Chitose. That effectively puts the momentum on Chitose. Why does this matter? It matters if John Cage is Town. If Proto is Scum and needed to switch from a Cage mislynch to a Chitose bus, that would be one opportunity to do so. If Cage doesn't flip Scum, I do think you need to be considered seriously still in true LYLO. Explain why you decided to vote Cage first then made the change?

Protoman is pretty sure the answer to that is obvious. Protoman wanted to see if Crock Pot would vote for Cage instead of Chitose, or if anyone would disagree with the majority besides Mai. Since Protoman doesn't think Cage is a virus it would have looked bad. Monoe will probably not like that answer, because it is more confirmed town abusing shenanigans. Every town should use what they're given to the fullest.

Oh Protoman should probably repeat that last part since it goes against today. Protoman doesn't think John Cage is a virus. Seriously Cage, this would go faster if you would just full-claim. Protoman is certain now that Cage is a third party that doesn't win with town and Protoman has been hinting he feels this way for some time. Considering the roles we've already seen, someone with night talk and the ability to roleblock does not make sense. Mai can hate this but it's true. This doesn't make Cage any less obviously not a part of town. Old Cage never cared where he voted. New Cage is arguing based on logic and not really looking at Navis hard enough. He is not town. But Cage is not the last virus. Of this, Protoman is certain. There is someone Protoman is certain on, but that can wait while Protoman composes one more case.

[Faiz]

Sorry Protoman. I'm not buying the reasoning you're giving for Cage being town.
 
He needs to die. I won't be responsable for having this town lose to Cage-scum just because some people decided that Cage was town based on setup speculation and roles.
 

[Decade]

Stop being stubborn. He needs to die. He's not a virus. Start thinking about everyone else. And you seriously need to read my posts because I did not say Cage is town. Look again.

[Faiz]

If he's not a virus, he's town.
 
No matter how anti town he plays, if he's not scum he's town.
 
However, I do see what you're saying.
 
Who would you have me vote for today instead?

[Decade]

Not town and not scum doesn't make someone town, that's just silly. I said the words "THIRD PARTY THAT DOESN'T WIN WITH TOWN." Protoman isn't sure if this is an error in translation. Protoman is suggesting Cage is a yellow colored seperate alignment.

Well, Protoman isn't going to tell Mai what to do. Protoman thinks she should look over what Monoe has posted and give her opinions on that for now, and Protoman's response to Monoe.

[Faiz]

Oh, I totally missed that Proto >.<
 
Um... Yeah. That's believable.
 
But it would mean Crocker is scum too...

[Decade]

Or Monoe, or you, or myself. What do you think of Monoe's case on me?

[Decade]

Fine don't reply see if Protoman cares.

Today Protoman isn't certain if eliminating the possible last scum or the extremely likely third party is the best plan. Both are the same threat level as far as Protoman is concerned, but red is 100% certain not to win with Protoman. So Protoman will raise his sword high and point at who he thinks is the virus!

##FoS Monoe

Speaking of Navis Protoman isn't certain on, let's talk about Monoe. Oh Monoe, did you realize why Protoman was waiting for you today? Protoman has been rereading across the Days, looking for the one Navis that ties in with all other viruses. Protoman noticed Chitose's line about how bad Monoe's Day 3/4 was, and noted that Chitose point blank refused to make a case on Monoe when asked, so Protoman did some rereading. It's not just Day 3/4. Protoman can trace the intent back to those early days. Let's take a look! For sake of clarity Protoman is only quoting the relevant parts.

The Comedian's response to Prinny seems to fall under a similiar category to me, as the acknowledgement of Prinny's post seems to have defensive intent, but the Comedian fails to follow it up with actual contributions. His post also features a complete lack of an acknowledgement of anything else. People were starting to make serious contributions around that time, so why did The Comedian instead decide to only post a very small focus towards the player who was apparently considering voting him? He would probably be my second pick for a member of the lighter gray colored team as is.

First mention of Comedian, pointing out his suspiciousness. This is the first appearance of the Kyon case too, though he's voting Sailor Moon, but Comedian hadn't been picked out by anyone else yet. This is interesting because this large blurb on Comedian is before the Kyon/Comedian OMGUS argument. That's alot to say about someone who only posted once. Let's see how he follows up.

Mai, what do you think about The Comedian?

Oh, this post continues voting Sailor Moon for votng the easy target while Monoe says Prinny is possible scum, therefore attacking the easy target.. wait. He doesn't follow up on his Comedian concerns anyways.

My opinions on Shitaisan have not changed much since my last post. He seems unmotivated and rather non-decisive. For somebody who has his vote down on The Comedian, he seems to be focusing a lot more on other people, and his case on The Comedian itself seems to have essentially formed because Shitaisan disagreed with The Comedian's vote on him. Shitaisan's choice to sit back and attack the person voting him instead of actively scumhunting does not look good in my eyes, and like I have said before, most of his traits are not traits that I like seeing in my townies. He is my secondary pick for scum as is. I would like to know whether or not Mai's townie read on him is still functional, too.

The Comedian's recent post looks better to me, and he has generally gone in the opposite direction of Sailor Moon since their initial defensive posts that failed to contribute. I am not particularly interested in attacking him like I was two posts ago now that he has posted some acceptable content.

Oh, so Kyon is scum for sitting back and attacking the scum attacking him, and Comedian looks better now and Sailor Moon looks worse. Oops. So much for those suspicions. The sentiment of the attack is familiar too, it's the same thing Chitose did. The Comedian looks town, and everyone on the other side of the argument looks like scum! The worst part is you say you aren't interested in attacking him despite how you never pushed him, he never addressed your concerns about attacking people who attacked him and in fact continued doing so, and you never really gave a reason for clearing him in the first place. "It looks better. Acceptable content." YOU NEVER SAID WHY. Not that you can answer now.

Monoe does something similar with Chitose. He actually says Chitose is one of the most trustworthy players going into Day 2, then when Gumshoe presents his case Monoe backs off and is going to reread Chitose later. By the time he does reread Chitose, he's decided The Comedian is town, on the same level as Protoman, and that Chitose must be scum with Kyon Kyon Kyon! This post right here of course. There's no opinion of if Chitose is seperately scum in that post, Protoman had to prod Monoe before he said that Chitose could be suspicious regardless. Considering Monoe's vote on Cage the next day, that also went nowhere. He pushed Kyon and pushed him hard all game while placing the other scum just out of reach of lynchable suspicion. But Protoman likes this last post from the end of Day 3 the most.

I don't think that openly suspecting targets who aren't going to be lynched is a good reason to attack The Comedian. Townies can find players who aren't major targets to be scummy, and they're obviously going to want their suspicions out there for the rest of the game to see and discuss with them. It should be noted that Light and Cage were also fairly notable points of discussion around the time of the post that Mai used as an example, even if they were not likely lynches. Kyon was still possibly lynchable at the time, too, with several players considering him suspicious at the time (but sadly not enough to actually vote him). I also think it is rather clear that The Comedian did not support the Sailor Moon wagon at the time of that post, so that's a bit of a misrep from Mai.

Other than that, I've personally found The Comedian's content to be believable and consistant. I did not notice any particular discrepancies in his interactions with Kyon when reading their posts in isolation, either. As is, I believe him to be town, and do not find Mai's case to be very convincing at all.

Oh yeah Monoe said this didn't he. The Comedian is town, believable and consistant. Except for that part where HE WAS SCUM.

I already addressed what I thought of your case on me. Now Monoe can address Protoman's case on him. Protoman isn't content with just words. Protoman wants to hear you claim, and wants to hear it fast. Protoman wants one good explanation for your actions. Not that Protoman thinks it'll be good enough.

[Sasword]

Proto: So you were wrong about CATS. Pretty fluid opinion on CATS as well, from your #454 saying one of Kyon or CATS is Scum to #512 where you have your list putting Kyon to 4th and CATS to a yellow 5th. CATS does drop his tell that he checked Anon in #451, but considering you still put Anon as your top pick through the rest of the Day and continued to push it, there's little chance you picked up on what he said as a cop tell at that time. And let's say you did pick up on CATS being a Cop. I would argue that Scum having a possible roleblocker would make you more likely to suspect a Cop is in the game and look for one than any Townie not being in the know.

The correct number of viruses is a "gotcha game" tactic and it's bad. How do you justify prosecuting people who only put forth 3 scum picks per your request and then declaring that people should have considered 4? The reason I mentioned Chitose was that she outlined a decent case on you, probably better than anyone else at that time in the game. Now, does that look like an attempt to mislynch TownProto in the future or is she calling ScumProto out for exactly who he is yet treating it too softly and going to pursue other people like Mai? It's a good question though and I'm torn about it going either way, so I'll think about it some more.

So, if Crocker decided to go for Cage instead of Chitose on Day 5, what would your reaction have been? Another "gotcha game" in action; you realize that you voting Cage would put subtle pressure on Crocker or anyone else to follow you. Players setting traps like that is bad news in Mafia. And let's face it, if Cage flips Survivor or Town, your decision to go for Cage first on Day 5 will reflect more poorly on you than myself or Crocker.

---

I'm disappointed that your case on Monoe focusses only on the previous Monoe's content. Yes, I read it all and as tempting as it would be to try to answer for old Monoe, I just can't without risk of tripping over his own words. But there is no reference to any of the new Monoe's content from Day 5 onwards. Tell me, how New Monoe's recent actions contribute to Monoe being Scum? This should also be an integral part of your case since it will help determine whether the Monoe entity is Scum that gave Comedian a pass or a Town entity that didn't make the right moves (about the only defense I can make). Why you didn't bother to confront me directly is noteworthy in a bad way.

---

Through all this, I still need to doublecheck Crocker more. Why don't you do this as well Protoman? Way to straight tunnel on me.

[Decade]

Sorry, but Old Monoe is all that matters. You replaced in too late. The Old Monoe was the one who was there, from the start, guiding Town as an active town example. He was the one helping town think who looked better then the others. He cheerled against Prinny and Sailor Moon without being on their wagons when their time to flip came. He threw suspicion on wagons for no other reason then because they were too fast. Three times, he used nothing but wagon speed to throw suspicion on mass amounts of town while slowly moving the only virus caught on those wagons up the list and further away from scrutiny.  And Old Monoe replaced out the moment I threw suspicion at him and was voting for CAGE on Day 4, not Comedian or Chitose, BECAUSE HE CLEARED COMEDIAN.

Crocker had trouble choosing between Comedian and Chitose after reading them that day, and listed them as secondary picks above CATS. Following his process he would have to follow up on both viruses if Anonymous was town. Protoman doesn't believe his vote on Anonymous at that time is enough suspicious behaviour, even Protoman thought Anonymous was looking worse again at the time by not saying anything. Just like the accidental hammer, Protoman sees this was bad, but there was no virus intent.

Mai tunneled on Cage the moment Cage was replaced by a less loud player who dared to tarnish Protoman's shiny red paint job. Mai was an excellent target that the viruses could not for the life of them get deleted. Your attempts to buddy up to her have been noted.

Hey that didn't look like a claim.

##VOTE: MONOE

Your Day 5 wall of text is about how Protoman could be more of a virus then Crocker. Only the viruses and the unstoppable believers who just got here seem to think Protoman is an option, even after Comedian produced a case on me, even after Chitose threw suspicion on me, and even after PROTOMAN got a virus that was considered obviously town deleted when no one BUT PROTOMAN was suspicious of him going into that day. Protoman is waiting for the explanation on that. Did I get bored and bus my partner because it was funny? (Ha, see that's a joke because he was the Comedian.) Since you were nice enough to point out how the Light deletion made Protoman look good, Protoman will point out the Light kill also made MONOE look good. Monoe was proven right about disliking yet another growing town wagon, for the sole reason that it was growing fast. That's all the credit there is to your pro-town slot, disliking fast wagons while voting for your own suspicious looking Town characters.

[Decade]

Proto: So you were wrong about CATS. Pretty fluid opinion on CATS as well, from your #454 saying one of Kyon or CATS is Scum to #512 where you have your list putting Kyon to 4th and CATS to a yellow 5th. CATS does drop his tell that he checked Anon in #451, but considering you still put Anon as your top pick through the rest of the Day and continued to push it, there's little chance you picked up on what he said as a cop tell at that time.

Ha, no, see, Protoman was willing to argue at the time that Anonymous had to be a Godfather if CATS claimed because there was no way Anonymous could be town. Protoman dropped his thinking that day for a good reason, Protoman thinks he was the most idiot Navi alive on Day 3. CATS was dropping hints before that just by saying he wished he had investigations. Incidentally his role to me doesn't look like he roleblocked himself. Sets of correct and incorrect blood samplers, ie. he could only test every two days.

And let's say you did pick up on CATS being a Cop. I would argue that Scum having a possible roleblocker would make you more likely to suspect a Cop is in the game and look for one than any Townie not being in the know.

Oh, that makes sense, especially the part where I set up my scum buddy as the only counter wagon to someone I knew was confirmed town via cop check.. wait.

The correct number of viruses is a "gotcha game" tactic and it's bad. How do you justify prosecuting people who only put forth 3 scum picks per your request and then declaring that people should have considered 4?

I didn't on that day, I already had my four suspects when the day started, and I probably won't now since there aren't four scum. But Protoman believes that as town three suspects is hardly enough. Everyone looks suspicious when you don't have any information. Who those suspects were is a better tell for Protoman. Monoe suspected Anonymous, Kyon, and anyone linked to Kyon by proxy and only after deleting Kyon. Protoman would answer Monoe's question about Chitose's intentions but Protoman has the unfair advantage of knowing the answer already. Chitose was setting up trying to make Protoman a wagon by saying he was annoying. It's the tell Chitose used on Kyon and Mai. Annoying Navis get the votes!

So, if Crocker decided to go for Cage instead of Chitose on Day 5, what would your reaction have been?

I would have added it to my list of reasons I was rereading Crocker and pursued his case further. Why yes, I realized that my vote would influence how Crocker would think, just as CATS vote would influence other Navis to attack Chitose instead. I wanted to see what other Navis would do when they thought there was an actual choice in wagons. The interesting thing is the one who voiced interest in switching to Cage after I did that was you, actually.

[Sasword]

Oops, forgot the claim. Vanilla Townie. You're pretty bold to put your eggs into this one basket. You will be shown to be wrong if not by my arguments, then by my flip. However, I don't want anyone else to vote me yet. If I am quickhammered by John Cage, that almost certainly assures he is a Survivor and will appeal to the Scum during his Night posts not to kill him so they can pull off a joint win. That is actually John Cage's best chance of victory if he is the Survivor. Or he could also be Scum all along and Proto is tunneling me. Either way, this action of Proto's just made things even worse for Town. I want a claim from Protoman as well.

In any case, saying only old Monoe matters is another list of bad to add. Tell me, what would my endgame plan as Scum be? Replace in, immediately bus Chitose, then go for Cage, then you? Wouldn't I as Scum go for the possibly easier Crocker mislynch? You've played this entire game reactionary which is no good. If I had decided to make Crocker my second choice over Protoman, Proto could just agree with me and it would be smooth sailing. Instead, he waited to see if I would pursue him and when I did, he's ready to counter any arguments I made. This is opportunistic scumhunting and once again is bad.

Oh, that makes sense, especially the part where I set up my scum buddy as the only counter wagon to someone I knew was confirmed town via cop check..

Btw, you as Scum set up Comedian before the Cop officially came out. You had no way of knowing 100% for sure if he was a Cop no matter what tells you might have seen. The main thing you have going for you is that you did start the Comedian wagon. I believe the reason was that Comedian talked about John Cage but never made any firm declaration of him. It's an unusual primary reason dependent far more on your scumteam reads than on say his spat with Kyon on Day 1 even after Kyon flipped Town. Feels more like a manufactured reason even if it turned out to be correct.

And finally, I might have found merit in your case on John Cage in Day 5 after I initially put Crocker at my #2, but I never changed my vote or took it off a now-confirmed Scum. Considering you're putting all your eggs into believing Cage is a Survivor, my Day 5 is something that I without a doubt look better on compared to you.

I will be away for awhile. Everyone else, please chime in.

[Decade]

Protoman is not sorry for his flavor. Protoman would make a very tasty ice cream.

Protoman is delicious Vanilla Ice Cream Town flavored. His only ability is the power.. to touch your town hearts.

Protoman believes in boldness. Protoman lives fast and hard. Protoman thinks appealing to Cage quickhammering you as a reason not to vote for you is odd. Cage might be a survivor, but how would he know you're not the virus he'd need to appeal to? Protoman agrees that not-him is a better choice for Cage over him. Cage also needs to claim, and he should be next. If Cage wants to stick to his original claim then Crocker can claim next.

Well, I'm not Monoe, but your endgame would be to immediately bus Chitose, go for Cage, kill me tonight and go for Crocker with Mai tomorrow. I have not played this entire game reactionary. That implies I'm somehow not driving this game, these discussions, this everything forward. 24 hours to assess. 24 hours to accuse. 24 hours to consolidate and cast judgement. This is what Protoman has done and what Protoman believes in. Frankly your case on me doesn't threaten me. If Protoman Were A Virus he would ignore it, delete Cage, delete you tonight and destroy Crocker tomorrow for victory.

You are correct, I had no 100% way of knowing if CATS was a cop or not. I took a chance and trusted what I saw enough to cast off my tunneling suspicion, stop the Anonymous wagon from being the only discussion that day, and CATS's actions that day before his claim did nothing but confirm what I believed. My case on The Comedian had nothing to do with Cage being scum and I said as much. My case was that The Comedian never said anything about anyone that reflected what he thought of their alignments. Not just John Cage. I pulled all his talk about CATS as an example as well. Then I explained why his continued lack of reads and playstyle arguments were scummy from a playstyle perspective. This is not manufactured evidence. These are things that happened.

Saying you never changed your vote and just made a tell related to hopping over to Cage doesn't change that you sounded reasonably able to change to Cage at that exact moment. Protoman suposes Navis must be easily fooled by stealth if Protoman's silly sounding tunneling on Cage was convincing at the time.

[Faiz]

Guys, I'm running a fever right now. I know this sounds like a terribad excuse, but I'm really not up to this.
 
I'll post at somepoint either tonight if I'm not feeling horrid, or tomorrow.

[Ryuki]

I apologize if this post is unhelpful, but I am going to reread everyone and see if I find any changes in my opinions.

Concerning Monoe, it's interesting what Proto brought up, I've been going off past reads for the game, and not looking too deep at her. I shall look closely during my reread and see if my opinions change.

[Decade]

Ah, Protoman still hasn't learned patience after six days. Crock Pot's input will be most important since every Navi alive but him wanted to delete him after Cage. Protoman notes the only one with a different opinion yesterday who wasn't the virus was CATS. CATS wanted to delete Monoe.

[Kick Hopper]

Is it really so hard to believe that I'm the town insomniac?

I mean, you've decided I must be third party, Mai decided that I must be a roleblocking insomniac, Crocker concluded that there's either 4 scum or CATS roleblocked himself before agreeing with Mai, and Monoe just ignored the issue entirely and decided I have to be lynched today.

My role is Unstopping Believer, and I can post at night.

I need to do a few rereads. I'm not quite sure what to think of new Monoe right now.