Author Topic: Mafia History Mafia - Game Over  (Read 74624 times)

Kilgamayan

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  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #810 on: May 21, 2011, 09:41:16 PM »
No change in the vote count.

About 27.5 hours to go, assuming my math does not deceive me.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #811 on: May 21, 2011, 10:39:47 PM »
Protoman: Cage's N3 post feeling genuine doesn't mean anything in terms of scumminess. Much like how Chitose's reaction to not wanting to pursue me Day 5 feels genuine from my point of view as well. Doesn't mean I'm going to let either of them go on those alone.
Protoman didn't say Cage's N3 post felt genuine. Protoman thinks he will quote what Cage said about Comedian just so Monoe can understand what Protoman means.
Well, the one big thing I notice is every day Comedian opens with a vote for Kyon. And his vote almost never LEAVES Kyon. Several times the potential of Kyon town was brought up and he ignored it. This doesn't mean as much since Kyon was town but...it feels like scum would want to AVOID being that ridiculously wrong. I dunno, what I guess I'm saying is that that action feels INCREDIBLY genuine.
This is not a statement laying out a case on Comedian being scum. This is a statement about Comedian being town. Does Monoe agree?

Oh, wow. Protoman's operator took control, Protoman doesn't remember looking at Mai's case on Kyon properly. That is pretty awful. Oh, and Protoman had forgotten this and this. Protoman wants to delete Cage again.. And Monoe.. and Crock.. Protoman feels like he is thinking in circles.

Protoman is annoyed that CATS is going to be prodded soon. CATS is confirmed but he shouldn't abandon posting. Protoman hopes to hear from Crock Pot soon as well.

MAI PLEASE POST THOSE CASES YOU WERE GOING TO POST SIX HOURS AGO. Protoman has learned Mai only sees capital letters. He hopes this helps!

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #812 on: May 21, 2011, 10:46:15 PM »
I'm back! :toot:
-Chitose

Chitose defense on D4
Quote
A quick defense of myself would be that most of Crocker's case on me seems to be 'setting up town fights'; I can't control when I look at Comedian and I can't be blamed for inadvertently encouraging cases on town when I've been doing things like, voting Mai myself and stuff like that.  Also; both town and scum can encourage flailing townies, and etc.
Uhhhh, yes you can control when you look at people, that is not a valid defense at all. And I don't see how voting a person and "stuff" clears you of setting up fights and encouraging cases among confirmed townies.

To restate my stance on Chitose setting up town fights:

In #100, Chitose tells Moon to go more in-depth on who we currently know are townies.

Same post, encourages Mai to get deeper in on her case on Gumshoe, who we now know is town.

D2, asks Mai to go deeper in on her case on Gumshoe and Moon.

Quote from: D2
Going on and on about the Comedian's D1 thing when most people have disagreed with you is not very good,
hurrrrrr I find this cute. "Drop your point because other people don't like it." Asking townie to give up point on scum. Not good.

Fence sat on Comedian every post in D3, just enough for a potential bus.

Quote
I find that I'm not liking the way you are chasing after Sailor Moon repeatedly and shoehorning your rhetoric since the start of D2 regarding her while ignoring everyone else and their posts since D2, from somewhat similar but less polarizing people like Annonymous and Light to content posters.  Yes, Sailor Moon seems a little worse now, and your reasons for her lynch are... somewhat correct comiinto D2, but merely talking about one person seems like a scum thing to do.  I would like, if possible, comparisons between two likely scum more than mere statements on one person, to better ascertain your stance on recent happenings.
##Vote: Mai
This doesn't read as actual hunting to me. It feels like wagon avoidance and a place to park your vote once the Light wagon got rolling after you added speed to it. This reads more of light pressure to me to avoid the wagon once it got tied up with all the others.

I am definitely voicing willingness to vote Chitose, but I feel that would put her a L-1 too early in the day.

If I missed any questions directed at me, please point them out.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #813 on: May 21, 2011, 10:51:43 PM »
The other main question for Crock Pot is which three his main suspects are. Protoman assumes he won't pick himself so his list will be different then others.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #814 on: May 21, 2011, 11:03:02 PM »
Ah yes, sorry about that.

Chitose, my favorite lynch today.
Cage, for suspicions I've stated before.
And now comes the hard part. My third pick would have to be Mai, but mostly by default and process of elimination once Chitose and Cage are gone.
I know I'm not scum. I don't believe in CATS scum, and if he is, well played. I don't have scum vibes from Monoe or Proto. So that only leaves Mai as the one I'm uneasiest about. It contradicts what I've said about her so far, but that's my opinion.
If I had to make a case, I could, but I would feel very uneasy about it.

Sasword

  • Sasword
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #815 on: May 21, 2011, 11:04:18 PM »
Protoman didn't say Cage's N3 post felt genuine. Protoman thinks he will quote what Cage said about Comedian just so Monoe can understand what Protoman means.This is not a statement laying out a case on Comedian being scum. This is a statement about Comedian being town. Does Monoe agree?

Monoe disagrees in the sense that Cage is voicing suspicion about Comedian, but waffles in the end. I see it as Cage thinking Comedian is scummy, but may not be Scum. If you're trying to get my opinion that this post of his is bad, then yes, I agree there.

Crocker: A recap on why you made four posts that you "wanted to get out there" in Day 4 (#626, #654, #682 and #689) before finally voting with under 3 hours left at #715? Be detailed please about your thought process in the Day. I'd give you more questions, but I'm leaving for the evening to throw money away. So with about 24 hours left in Day 5, don't skimp on the details.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #816 on: May 21, 2011, 11:20:49 PM »
Chitose is scum because of the following:
 
1) Cheerleading/Passive Pushing
This is Chitose-scum's strategy. She will vote someone for the whole game, and continue voting them as her top suspect. She will then help push other townie cases, but not get involved in the wagons. This is to make her look better when people look back at the vote counts. She will not push scum cases though, as witnessed with the Comedian case that Proto gave yesterday. This is the BIGGEST reason I have.
 
2) Narrow Focus
Chitose's push on me for the past 5 days has been very interesting. What it's done for her game is that it has allowed her to avoid suspicion for not having as many suspects, since she can just point at the massive walls she posts about me and claim that I'm her lead suspect.
 
The reason that this works, and why I was chosen to be her target is because of my D1 play. She as scum knew full well that Sailor Moon would flip town. She also saw how hard I came out, and that I have the ability to be a town enforcer(I stopped doing that this game because my reads have been so off base). She knew that I would be a good neutral suspect to place her vote on for the first few days in an attempt to get a mislynch later in the game.
 
3) Lurk Moar, is never enough.
 
I know this comes back to Chitose not posting any real content on anyone but me, and only providing minimal support to other leading town wagons (which is what I've mentioned above), but the BIGGEST reason she's been able to get away with this so far is that she lurks. She lurks to avoid major discussions, and when she returns, she "catches up" by posting a wall about why I am scum.
 
Crocker next.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #817 on: May 21, 2011, 11:43:06 PM »
Reasons Why Crocker is Scum:
 
1) Active Lurking
 
The art of saying a lot, and really saying nothing at all, is a beautiful scum tactic. This is what Crocker does. For example, allow me to direct you here: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg636946.html#msg636946
This post of Crocker's 3 main suspects is very interesting for a few reasons. I never asked for reasons of why people had their top 3(nor did I expect any), so not giving reasons like Proto did in his post is fine. However, what Crocker is doing here is completely different. He tries to give validation to his claims of why I am scum through shoddy reasoning, and PoE. PoE is so arbitrary that it might aswell be "my opinion". Beyond that, he says that "if I need to I COULD come up with a case". Why doesn't he? He has time. There is no reason why if he CAN make a case, he shouldn't.
 
BTW, the difference between posting no reasoning and trying to pretend you have reasoning is that one is town expressing their reads, and the other is scum trying to SEEM like town expressing their reads.
 
2) Arbitrary Voting
 
The opposite of Chitose, Crocker is throwing he vote to whomever will take it. The way in which he is voting is such that he's sneaking onto wagons, and then not pushing them. This means come time for VCA inspection, he is seen as being on the wagon, but most of the suspicion falls upon players like myself who propagated the wagon HARD. As an example of this, take a look at the Day 1 vote count. Crocker places a random vote, which remains on Sailor Moon well into the peak of her wagon that day. Once the Sailor Moon wagon begins to come apart, Crocker swaps over to the fast growing Prinny wagon, without much word as to why.
 
3) His Unexplained Hammer
 
I think this has been covered well by A) My above post and B)Proto's constant mentions of it.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #818 on: May 21, 2011, 11:48:31 PM »
Crocker: A recap on why you made four posts that you "wanted to get out there" in Day 4 (#626, #654, #682 and #689) before finally voting with under 3 hours left at #715? Be detailed please about your thought process in the Day. I'd give you more questions, but I'm leaving for the evening to throw money away. So with about 24 hours left in Day 5, don't skimp on the details.

In #626, I was following up on suspicions on Anonymous because he was unoriginal, reportery, and taking easy targets, and the flips were not beneficial to any town opinion of him. I put him in my scumlist earlier on and he did nothing to change my opinion of him for the better, so it was natural that he become my main focus.

His scumteam with no reasoning in #622 looked liked an attempt to distance himself, and I saw that as scummy.

#654, was a response to questions and following up on Anonymous. I also gave a full list regarding opinions of the players and my stances on them. I found Comedian and Chitose to be null tells, which leads into #682.

#682, I report on my new opinions on Comedian following my reread. At the time, I found him to be worse than Chitose, which is why I started with him. I consequently declared him scum and put him on my list. I put him under Anonymous because I felt more confident in Anony scum and putting him as my first pick right after a null read without a chance to respond would be unsuiting.

#689, I was asked about the other side of my reread, so I decided to write it up. The reasoning for putting Chitose above Comedian, who I just decided was scum, was that although Comedian's actions were scummy, by writing out what I had found, I discovered more scum intent in Chitose, which put her above Comedian. In my opinion bad intents > bad actions. Still not topping Anonymous in picks for the same reasons as Comedian.

#715, the reason I put down my vote then was because the day was ending and to back up my words and vote for who I found scummiest. The reason I had waited this long was because there was a general request to abstain from voting, and I saw no harm in it so long as people followed up on their words, which I had done. There was also a factor of paranoia from D2 of putting someone too far ahead too early, which is why I was, and still am, careful with my vote.

Then the shocking revelation came from CATS, at which point, I did not find it suiting to vote Anonymous anymore. I then decided to prioritize Comedian over Chitose, even though Chitose was my second pick. I was not interested my tying up wagons, and I had put Comedian on my scumlist, so I saw it as the most suitable and fitting action to vote Comedian.

This is my honest opinion. Does this answer your question?

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #819 on: May 22, 2011, 12:03:08 AM »
Unvote; Vote: Chitose
 
There are enough people who prefer Chitose to Cage today that it's pointless of me to argue this.
 
Chitose is just as scummy as Cage is, really.
 

Kilgamayan

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Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #820 on: May 22, 2011, 12:03:47 AM »
Chitose Karasuma is at L-1!

CATS would be prodded for inactivity, but I see them online and reading this thread right now, so.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #821 on: May 22, 2011, 12:04:44 AM »
Er. Chitose wasn't voting for Mai until late Day 2. Explain how this still works? Protoman has stressed this a few hundred times, link to sources of discontent instead of general statements please. Protoman should not have to keep asking this.
Ah, and your case on Crocker is he used Process of Elimination, which works, and justified his picks, so he is a virus? Can you point to more examples of active lurking?

WHY IS PROTOMAN SURROUNDED BY VIRUSES ON DAY 5?! Protoman needs cooling fluid for his circuits.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #822 on: May 22, 2011, 12:05:09 AM »
Actually, that would be L-1.
 
Unvote:Chitose
 
I think we can garner more out of this day, especially since I want Chitose to answer my question.
 
@Chitose: Who are top 3 scum? I know myself and Crocker are 1 and 2, but who is #3?

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #823 on: May 22, 2011, 12:06:20 AM »
Er. Chitose wasn't voting for Mai until late Day 2. Explain how this still works? Protoman has stressed this a few hundred times, link to sources of discontent instead of general statements please. Protoman should not have to keep asking this.
Ah, and your case on Crocker is he used Process of Elimination, which works, and justified his picks, so he is a virus? Can you point to more examples of active lurking?

WHY IS PROTOMAN SURROUNDED BY VIRUSES ON DAY 5?! Protoman needs cooling fluid for his circuits.

Process of Elimination works only when you have flips and confirmed evidence to back it up.
 
Other wise it's called "Personal Preference".

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #824 on: May 22, 2011, 12:08:48 AM »
Also, let me go find examples for you.
 

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #825 on: May 22, 2011, 12:10:37 AM »
Further, I feel misrepresented by your summary of my Crocker case. Please read again and look at ALL the points.
 

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #826 on: May 22, 2011, 12:10:55 AM »
@Mai

On the topic of point one, I don't agree with that being active lurking, I wanted the rest of town to know where I stand and why. I'm not trying to validate anything, I already have my opinions made. Can you find examples of other active lurking?

And I find it more helpful to the rest of town to let them know who I will suspect once my main targets are gone. I will make a case on you if it comes down to it, as I find you the least trustworthy out of the remaining players once Chitose and Cage are gone.

Point two, I can't know if my random vote will be on a person of suspect. The reason for taking it off Moon, as I've said before, was because I found Prinny worse. It's as simple as that. And you can't say I never pushed a wagon. I pushed the Light wagon with a valid case and valid reasoning, then got deserted. And "fast growing Prinny wagon"? It had 2 votes from CATS and Moon before I got on.

And if Chitose flips scum, do you see us as a scumteam and why?

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #827 on: May 22, 2011, 12:17:48 AM »
Chitose flipping scum yields a Cage scum team above all else.
 
You'd be second in line, yes. This act by Chitose of pushing for you lynch today seems a little contrived. Chitose was likely to be a lynch target today, and this is the first time she's really mentioned you. This is a good distancing plan, incase Chitose is lynched.
 
I still see Cage>you, but you're top 2. And frankly, that's all we need. If Chitose flips scum, we will have one mislynch available. From my persepctive, Lynch Cage, Lynch You, Town wins.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #828 on: May 22, 2011, 12:22:07 AM »
Though, I don't think we'll need to lynch you. I'm pretty damn sure we've hit the mark with Chitose/Cage.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #829 on: May 22, 2011, 12:30:17 AM »
Not really. Process of Elimination works. Confirmed evidence is impossible to come by in enough quantities. Today many people have cited evidence to eliminate suspects. For example this is Protoman's Eliminations:

Comedian wanted to delete Mai for a very long time and cheerled Mai while voting for Kyon, something he did for many town wagons. Mai's hammer on a virus also makes less sense from a virus perspective, she gave no time to see if anyone else was convinced by The Comedian. Therefore, Mai is town.
Protoman pushed a case onto Comedian, who flipped scum. Protoman is the strongest. Therefore, Protoman is town.
CATS claimed cop to stop a town deletion and was unsuccessfully counterclaimed by a virus. Therefore, CATS is town.

This is why Protoman is bothered right now, there are too many possible suspects that cannot be eliminated. What Protoman has is fingers of suspicion.

Monoe pushed Anonymous and Kyon, two confirmed town on Day 3. Monoe did stay consistent with his Cage suspicions after Kyon was revealed to be not a virus. Therefore Monoe is suspicious but understandable.

John Cage pushed for a Kyon lynch above all others, cleared The Comedian and threw suspicion on Protoman. Therefore Cage is suspicious.
Mr. Crocker has been holding his vote back every day and joining wagons at the end every time, therefore Mr. Crocker is suspicious.
Chitose Karasuma pushed Kyon until the rest of town took up Kyon, was heavily suspected by someone who was killed, threw suspicion on everyone except Comedian, and has been pushing someone who is very likely town, therefore Chitose is suspicious.

Protoman thinks we should stop messing around and ask Chitose for a claim. Chitose, it's obvious the majority is ready to vote for you today. If you have something to claim get it out as soon as possible, if not Protoman suggests throwing out as much information as possible.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #830 on: May 22, 2011, 12:36:18 AM »
But that is with fact~!
 
Do you see the difference between yours and Crocker's?

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #831 on: May 22, 2011, 12:38:00 AM »
Protoman also wants all Navis to know that Prinny was onto a virus before the rest of us! We should have listened to my Penguin Hat and SOS Slave Boy from the start. How Protoman longs for those active early days..

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #832 on: May 22, 2011, 01:01:19 AM »
Crock Pot just said the same thing with less words. Protoman is rereading him anyways. Crock Pot's early posts amuse Protoman.

That reminds Protoman. Mai, you said earlier that Cage has been floating passively by all game. Can you explain why you think this of Old Cage's behaviour? Not that Protoman disagrees, Protoman just thought it was an odd statement from you.

Kilgamayan

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Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #833 on: May 22, 2011, 01:06:59 AM »
Changed my mind. CATS has been prodded for inactivity.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #834 on: May 22, 2011, 03:17:13 AM »
Monoe is my third pick, just slightly over Cage.  If Mai flips scum, Monoe would definitely be my next target.

As for Crocker, if I am to happen to look at Comedian at the end of D3, what am I to make of it?  Not very much.  As for Kyon's Comedian point, how is pushing it helpful when Kyon provides absolutely no justification to convince us of the truth?  You had might as well say that you happened to look at me closely only on D4 and make the post you could have made on D3 when you said I was a nulltell.; it's the exact same thing.

As for Crocker, the very fact that you got deserted on the Light wagon D3 was because you had absolutely no other opinions on anyone other than Annonymous/Light/CATS until D4.  It's so easy to find so many things scummy about those three that I feel that you were pretty lazy from D1-D3.

I don't see why the Mai case wasn't original when I was the first one to point out points that have been pointed out on D3 and when I have followed it up for a very long time, and how it was a 'neutral target' for me when it was merely my first.

I claim town doctor.  I protected Monoe on N1, protected Protoman on N2 and N3, and protected CATS on N4.  Would say that I did not expect the NK's starting from N2 onwards at all, what with Light and Annonymous being NK'ed.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #835 on: May 22, 2011, 03:33:52 AM »
@Protonman: I know who the Old Cage was. And she plays a very distinct kind of game. This is not the game I expected from her. Now, I don't like to use meta as a reasoning for scum, just by general rule of disliking meta, but it is hard to overlook this. I was overlooking it when it was just her because of confirmation bias and a lack of other real evidence to show her as scum.
 
But thanks to a re-evaluation due to New Cage, I came to the conclusion that the meta read I had was enough to compound with the recent scummy moves by New Cage, and earn my attention.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #836 on: May 22, 2011, 03:45:48 AM »
Protoman is upset Mai is bringing this up now instead of when Protoman was having a full-blown argument with Cage and Mai was insisting Cage was town. Not maybe town. Not possibly a little off but town. Full blown town. Protoman thinks this is unacceptable as an excuse. Mai should post her full case on all of Cage's activity from the game. WITH QUOTES AS EXAMPLES. Where did Mai see this offness from Old Cage that she never bothered to mention until Old Cage was gone?

Chitose, you are claiming to be a doctor that protects every night then? Do you have any restrictions? What's your role name?

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #837 on: May 22, 2011, 04:01:51 AM »
What Protoman fails to realize is just how bad my confirmation Bias with Old Cage is.
 

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #838 on: May 22, 2011, 04:07:45 AM »
Protoman thinks that is silly unless Mai is trying to say she has never caught Old Cage as a virus before. Protoman asked Mai to explain her town read on Cage earlier. Mai refused. Now Mai is claiming she didn't really have one in the first place. You were happy to use meta as a reason to clear Cage as town before. Protoman restates his demand.

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #839 on: May 22, 2011, 04:13:48 AM »
My rolename is the Possessive Protector.  Yes, from what I know for sure, it seems to me that I have no restrictions in being a normal town doctor that can protect every night; however, the flavor seems a little suspect in that I might actually be a jaikeeper by bastard mod.  That's speculation though.