Author Topic: Mafia History Mafia - Game Over  (Read 73957 times)

Sasword

  • Sasword
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #780 on: May 20, 2011, 04:41:35 PM »
Chitose, I fully understood your intention was to vote Mai like how Crocker's was to vote Anony. Still doesn't mean I like what you've done or think you're better than the person who voted for the now confirmed Townie in Day 4. Your Crocker case looks alright. However your Mai case looks weak.

Mai is still somewhat lackluster with her shotgun attack on Cage due to a single post, without any reference to what transpired on the past days regarding her, which might point to some roundabout defense of Comedian.

Explain this possible roundabout defense.

Seems like scum desperately trying to search for an alternate target.  Also, I feel that my discourse with her is one-sided, which is pretty irritating, and I feel that she has not adequately explained her D2 and D3 thing on Kyon.  There's also still very little evidence of opinions carrying over to the next day which I find worrying, what with cases on Crocker evaporating and Kyon turning into scum. I find her D4 significantly better than Crocker's however, but I might switch to Mai if circumstances permit.

Explain how most of the above could be attributed to a Townie trying to find something when all her previous cases she was gung-ho about ended up being wrong.

Perhaps some reference to pre-D4 events might be in question.

It's talk like this that gets me. You lay down statements that cast doubt on someone that isn't your primary target (Protoman in Day 4, me in Day 5), but there's no follow through. Talk about trying to see what sticks. If you're worried about my predecessor's lackluster play in Day 3 and 4, point out parts that I can take a look at.

I'm voting you over Crocker right now because I see your reluctance to pile onto Anony as distancing and other things I mentioned above as hypocrisy. For how bad Crocker's wait around (which he will need to answer for) to vote is, I think your dancing around takes higher priority.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #781 on: May 20, 2011, 06:28:05 PM »
Protoman isn't clearing Cage for attacking Protoman, considering he immediately backed away and set his vote on Chitose. Protoman can point to many shining examples where Cage has gone out of his way to give Comedian clears above all other Navis. Protoman also believes Comedian saying he didn't really think Protoman was a virus is little excuse to ignore how his speech was setting Protoman up for a deletion today after a Headless 4chan deletion. Old Cage was also trying to set up Protoman, and Old Cage's only reaction to Protoman's case on Comedian was 'I will reread later'. Protoman thinks New Cage just jumped the gun on attacking Protoman, and Protoman notices New Cage avoided talking about Comedian. New Cage needs to get in here and question his suspects. Protoman wants to hear from all Navis what they think of Cage's N3 post, now with the knowledge that Comedian was a virus.
Quote
Protoman also wants to ask Mai why she decided to hammer immediately instead of waiting an hour, Protoman doesn't see why she couldn't give Anonymous
MAI PROTOMAN THINKS IT WOULD BE NICE IF MAI STOPPED SKIPPING HIS POSTS AND ANSWERED HIS QUESTIONS WHEN HE ASKS THEM.

Protoman likes New Monoe again. Best Friends Forever? Ignoring weird attacks and vote hops what does Monoe think of Cage's total play? Same question about Mai.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #782 on: May 20, 2011, 07:08:13 PM »
@Protoman: Because his claim was bullshit. It was something scum would throw together to try and save themselves because:
 
A) It's deliberately non-specific
B) It's one-shot, so he can explain not using it
C) It's confirmable, so he can try and get off the hook this day to survive one extra day.
D) He stated that the mod DIDN'T REVEAL ANY OF HIS POWERS TO HIM.
 
So in essence, he had a power that was "Confirmable by the Mod", but HAD NO IDEA WHAT IT DID?
 
It's a scum claim, as shown by his flip.
 
I wasn't willing to wait another hour because that would have potentially led to people unvoting the scum due to his claim.
 
There was nothing else to add that couldn't be said today, and no more for TOWN to gain.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #783 on: May 20, 2011, 07:17:45 PM »
@Chitose: Cage has been passively floating along this whole game. HOWEVER, I am deliberately ignoring the previous Cage, for two reasons.
 
1)  I know who the previous Cage is, and I have such a large confirmation bias due to how I read her, that my town read may have been misplaced.
 
2) I try to give all replacements a chance to show their town intent before lynching based on the previous owners actions. Lynching a player slot is all well and good, but it's good to base your suspicions off the current player more than the prior one.
 

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #784 on: May 20, 2011, 07:17:59 PM »
Oh, and Vote: John Cage

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #785 on: May 20, 2011, 07:24:47 PM »
And as for reasons why he is scum besides Chainsaw:
 
How about his attempt to sneak onto the Comedian wagon at the end of yesterday, to gain some town cred?
 
How about how he dropped Protoman like a hot potato when NO ONE ELSE took interest in his Proto case?
 
[Read As: Cage saw he wasn't getting that mislynch EVER so he switched targets]
 

 

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #786 on: May 20, 2011, 09:17:40 PM »
Protoman can't help being a shiny red undeletable master of war.  8)

Protoman remains suspicious but Mai is still less likely to be a virus then Cage. Oh Protoman doesn't think Cage has enough incentive to talk to us yet.
##Vote: JOHN CAGE

Oh yes. Protoman thinks everyone should try this! Voting Cage feels good!

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #787 on: May 20, 2011, 10:01:12 PM »
Actually, my conclusion on the Comedian?s scum buddies was a bit more deep than one paragraph of WIFOM, and the reason I thought the search was worth pulling at all was because of the paragraph that followed.

Assuming a LyLo with Cage, CATS, Comedian, Crocker, Chitose, Monoe, and Protoman...  That would mean that every single wagon so far has been Town/Town.  Would be difficult to find scumtells based on scum interaction in such circumstances - they'd have no need to acknowledge each other much at all.

Primary clue to scum intent in that situation would be a lack of caring which wagon gets lynched.  Not a very reliable scumtell, since it's quite possible for a townie to believe both wagons to be on scum, but since I haven't picked up any notable scumminess that stands on its own among any of these players, and there would be no scumflips to go on, it'd have to do.

I disagree with the Comedian on the second point; since it was scum that made it. The first paragraph by itself is pure WIFOM, but the fact that he tried to make us draw an unrelated conclusion from it was the reason I thought the search was worth pulling. He wanted us to look at players that don?t care which wagon gets lynched, and didn?t view scum interactions as a viable method of catching scum.

However, I did not view this evidence as good enough on its own. I found Crocker and Chitose scummy for a while now because of their day 1 and day 2 maneuvers that really powered along the Prinny lynch and got Gumshoe out of the game 24 hours earlier than he expected. Mind you, I found them individually scummy; Crocker for the quick lynch on Moon and helping start the Prinny wagon, and Chitose for placing the Prinny wagon in the lead and the Gumshoe death. As the days wore on and Light?s flip was revealed, a good deal of this evidence became just too old and not strong enough to apply anymore ? there were scummier targets.
And then a player I didn?t expect to flip scum at all flipped scum, and told us how we should look for scum in Lylo. I did my search because I was curious about who he didn?t interact with, since I figured he wouldn?t interact much with scum, and it renewed my old suspicions. I noticed he posted about Crocker and Chitose fairly equally. I had trouble finding patterns in Chitose?s posts, but I noticed Crocker has about as much to say about the Comedian and Chitose prior to day 4 as the Comedian had to say about the two. And even on day 4, Crocker treats the cases about equally.
However, on a second look the few times he does mention Chitose make Chitose the more likely scum buddy. I?m going to post all of the Comedian?s references to Chitose, except the one already above. (The last one is the only important one, but I included the other two for good measure).

Chitose:  I asked for a justification from Kyon and not everyone else because while others' cases looked more town motivated, Kyon's was lazy, reactionary OMGUS.  Pro-town thing to do would have been to move the vote off and find somewhere better to put it when Protoman answered his question.
This first one is fairly null to me, but there?s only four references, and they all deserve a mention.


As for the D1 wagon hop from Sailor Moon to Prinny, that's based on Monoe's wagon analysis, right?  Which, for it to have been a scum strategy, relies on a Kyon scum flip, rather than your other picks of Anonymous and Chitose.  Makes sense, and if you believe yourself to be in danger of NK tonight, it also makes sense to point it out and ask for others to acknowledge it so that the case can be carried after your death, but it makes a Kyon lynch a higher priority just to make sure the case is valid in the first place.
Comedian defends Chitose fairly well, but it?s hard to tell if it?s scum intent. Still, they do not interact much.

So, continuing the hypothetical, if we were to lynch Protoman in D5 LyLo and get a scumflip, I suppose the most obvious buddy would be Cage, as Protoman's dogged pursuit of him when there was really no hope of getting a lynch is basically a textbook example of how bussing is supposed to work.  My pick for their buddy would in turn depend a whole lot on events during LyLo, but I suppose if I had to wager a guess right now I'd pick Chitose, mostly for the quickness with which Protoman dropped his case on her as quickly as he did his Anonymous case, and without even the flimsy reasoning of all his other scumpicks going for Anonymous.
Summarized, the Comedian says that if we had lynched town (Anonymous) yesterday, a Chitose scum buddy depends on a Protoman and Cage scum flip, in that order.

On Cats:

[img=http://img22.imageshack.us/f/photo50cats.jpg/][/img]

Although CATS isn?t at the center of discussion, he has come up in passing a couple times as worth looking into. In the next few days, please don?t lynch CATS. Of all the times he could have claimed town cop, he picked the one day in the game in which it would immediately lead to a scum lynch; the alternative was an Anonymous lynch, which would have put us into Lylo with no flips. I do think he was roleblocked last night, because I see no scum intent in what he did yesterday now that we have the Comedian?s flip.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #788 on: May 20, 2011, 10:12:03 PM »
As for Crocker over Mai, it was the important lack of commitment by vote at one point yesterday, despite him saying that I'm scummier than Comedian, and that interesting last vote on Annonymous which did not make sense.  At least Mai had strong votes throughout D4, no matter how strange; I did not have as reliable a tab on Crocker's opinions as on Mai's due to his lack of voting.   I still think Mai's D3 and below is worse than Crocker's (though his isn't exactly stellar either, with all the ignorance of non-obvious targets), but I want the question of Crocker's D4 to be answered first.

How is Comedian wanting target only Anonymous (Townie) and Mai (?) when algae is only need of lynch two more townies? Are you feel Mai is still algae with Comedian?


---
In two of Chitose is day one posts, Chitose is ask Comedian of his vote on Kyon, and is claiming suspicion for Tunneling. I am wonder, why make claim of tunneling for Comedian, of all people? Kyon is vote for Comedian is much the worse, at time of questioning, but Chitose is active waffle over Kyon and Comedian. After Comedian is answer, Chitose offering no reaction or followup, and does not referring to comedian again, except for to refer to Kyon as algae.

Day 3 Chitose is saying Comedian is good, but is still just algae enough to justify wagon hop if needed.
Day 3 still, Chitose is say Comedian is suspicious for tunnel on Kyon, but is not enough for making case.
Day 4 Chitose is say Mai is worse the person on Kyon wagon, because even though Mai is looking at other cases on day 3, is target only Kyon and is tunnel Kyon for one day. Whoops? Who is Comedian?

Chitose is notice many detail of Comedian case, and does very nice job outlining it at random, so why is completely ignore Comedian when is most algae of everyone around? You are never even get chance to commenting on Comedian Case when important.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #789 on: May 20, 2011, 10:43:34 PM »
Comedian defends Chitose fairly well, but it?s hard to tell if it?s scum intent. Still, they do not interact much.
This quote is from when Comedian was defending Cage against Protoman's case. Why did you quote it as Comedian defending Chitose?

Protoman is waiting for Crock Pot to finish his re-read and hopefully join Protoman in his crusade. Down with music! Up with midi!

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #790 on: May 20, 2011, 10:55:16 PM »
This quote is from when Comedian was defending Cage against Protoman's case. Why did you quote it as Comedian defending Chitose?

Protoman is waiting for Crock Pot to finish his re-read and hopefully join Protoman in his crusade. Down with music! Up with midi!

For good measure of, course. I'm obligated to include every mention of Chitose the Comedian has made when he's only mentioned four.

Incidentally, we have all day Protoman. Even if you're sure I'm scum, I would like you to at least use the extra time looking for scum buddies rather than pushing a quick lynch. It's not good for town to throw away time.

@Chitose - I'm a guy.

Anyway, I feel like having fun for the rest of the day. Being targetted for a lynch is no reason to not have fun, so lets cue the music, and let the original John Cage roll in his grave. If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them as well, but it's no fun if your dialog for the day is "Lynch him! Lynch him! Lynch him!" It drowns out alternate discussion, and makes scum hunting the final scum tougher for the rest of town.

Who do you think the third scum is, and why?

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #791 on: May 20, 2011, 10:57:52 PM »
Why did you quote it as Comedian defending Chitose?

Is scumslip, Confused self with other scum, maybe?

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #792 on: May 20, 2011, 10:59:29 PM »
Ahahahahaha, great.
Well apparently, I have an appointment for something I was not aware. I will need to go soon, and I can't post my full case. To sum it up, I find Chitose scummier and my first pick. I'm not going to put my vote down until I come back and can post the case. Which should be ~24 hours. I apologize for this inconvenience, but I shall return with my case.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #793 on: May 20, 2011, 11:11:50 PM »
Is scumslip, Confused self with other scum, maybe?

Actually, no, it isn't. It's me reading parts of the Comedian's quotes out of context, and getting mixed up on what the sentences actually mean. My bad.


Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #794 on: May 20, 2011, 11:31:55 PM »
Well that's bothersome for Protoman then.
##Unvote

Protoman was being dishonest. Looking over Chitose, Protoman found the same thing CATS did. Chitose's case on Kyon was heavily based around "How dare you accuse Comedian of being a virus when all other Navis agree there was nothing wrong with Comedian's vote on you?" Gumshoe had double reason to be deleted now: Not only did he make a case on Chitose, he pointed out there was something wrong with Comedian's initial vote. Protoman thinks Mai's response to Protoman's question was town, and now believes Chitose was the third virus on her town wagon.
Is scumslip, Confused self with other scum, maybe?
Oh you. Protoman wonders if Cage could have traveled to the past to make a future paradox post!

But in seriousness. CATS, Protoman needs to discuss the most revolting question he has with you. If Chitose is a virus, and all is wrong with this digiverse and Cage is not a virus, we are left with Monoe, Mai, and Crocker. Who would the other virus be?

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #795 on: May 21, 2011, 12:31:07 AM »
@Monoe:

Quote
You lay down statements that cast doubt on someone that isn't your primary target (Protoman in Day 4, me in Day 5), but there's no follow through. Talk about trying to see what sticks. If you're worried about my predecessor's lackluster play in Day 3 and 4, point out parts that I can take a look at.

Problem, is that I only have one vote, and even though I may 'cast doubt' on certain people, they may not be my primary scum target for the day.  I never meant to lynch Protoman or even vote him, only  to point out his flaws, which I imagine is not incorrect.  Also, I'm quite interested to know as to why exactly asking you to pour through pre-D4 is equivalent to casting doubt, and why I had to choose Annonymous over Mai when I elaborated on my decision here.  It's as if you are voting me for putting attention onto Mai and treating it as a non-stance, asking the questions Mai is supposed to ask herself and stuff like that.  My question to you is why are you defending Mai when Mai could carry out the defense herself?  You inherit your predecessor's trait of defending Mai when it simply isn't due, thus I retract my questions about such here

As for your defense by proxy, Cage was a nice place for Mai to put her vote to avoid the Comedian wagon,   And of course, being gung-ho is one thing, but having opinions swing (regarding Kyon) from towniest town to scummiest scum in the course of D2 and D3 is not just being gung-ho, is about having opinions to suit the day in question, which is scummy, especially when there is little to no consideration of other interesting targets. 

Seeing that there's some similarity between me and Mai in your accusation of me scatter-shooting cases, I don't like how you are handwaving Mai's past actions, either.

---

@CATS:

Quote
Day 4 Chitose is say Mai is worse the person on Kyon wagon, because even though Mai is looking at other cases on day 3, is target only Kyon and is tunnel Kyon for one day. Whoops? Who is Comedian?

Even Comedian has raised other cases on Day 3, by the way, but the main point is that Kyon was Mai's pick for towniest person on D2, so why did it all change on D3 due to just one flip?  This was never adequately explained.  Also, Comedian was simply not that obvious scum in my eyes; not as much as Mai was anyway; it took Protoman's post for everyone to realize it.

Regarding D1 actions, I view the NK thing as WIFOM; why should I get implicated for the decisions of someone else?  It doesn't really seem right, especially when I raised the Comedian thing on D1  because I wanted to raise what no one else was raising.  Comedian's response was satisfactory, and thus there was no follow-up.  And wasn't it somewhat true that much of town did not agree with Kyon's tirade about Comedian misrepping him?  I don't think I should catch flak for saying that Kyon's insistence on something town did not agree with was anti-town as some substantiation for my second scum pick as Kyon either. 

---

As for Mai, I do not agree, but I'll leave it to Cage to answer.  In any case, what do you think of the case on me, Mai/?  You are the only one alive now that has not put any input on me so far.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #796 on: May 21, 2011, 12:57:15 AM »
Because at the moment I have bigger fish to fry.
 
It's my personal opinion that you are likely scum based upon the wagons you've supported, all while keeping your vote placed squarely on me.
 
Remember when I accused Comedian of cheerleading wagons?
 
And everyone scoffed at me, so I dropped it?
 
Yeah. It's the same scumtell.
 
But even still, I want Cage dead before you.

Kilgamayan

  • True
  • *
  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #797 on: May 21, 2011, 04:38:49 AM »
Chitose Karasuma (2): CATS, Monoe
Mr. Crocker (1): Chitose Karasuma
John Cage (1): Mai Tokiha, Protoman.EXE

No vote cast: John Cage, Mr. Crocker, Protoman.EXE

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. You have less than 45 hours remaining to vote.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Sasword

  • Sasword
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #798 on: May 21, 2011, 05:34:56 AM »
Protoman wants to hear from all Navis what they think of Cage's N3 post, now with the knowledge that Comedian was a virus.

Quite the breakdown on Comedian's scumminess, but he did say he'd prefer an Anony lynch still. He was consistent on that. Once again, not an efficient gameplan for ScumCage to win the game as he would have to bus Comedian during that potential LYLO if he wanted to remain consistent. But the caveat is that when LYLO hits, opinions sometimes must change for either side to win.

Protoman likes New Monoe again. Best Friends Forever? Ignoring weird attacks and vote hops what does Monoe think of Cage's total play? Same question about Mai.

Isn't that what I would base my opinion on? Why are you framing the question that way? I see weird attacks, un-useful NK speculation from earlier in the game (or was that someone else?) and indignance at the start of Day 4. Also, he's so quick to vote Anony Day 4, but does a long analysis on Comedian Day 5, but no indication of who he plans to vote for. Very odd change. Especially when he said the following:

Protoman: Fair enough, it just felt rather off to me. Now, I feel a bit misrepresented here, Protoman. I never said we could take it easy, but as I'm sure you know, votes are the surest sign of intent. Holding them back allows people to say things without meaning them. It let's people rack up a little town cred for "good opinions" that they have no intention of backing up.

I don't feel the threshold is AT ALL low enough to be worried about a damned quicklynch. Admittedly, L-X counts SHOULD probably accompany every vote though.

He's also pretty indignant Day 5. His primary saving grace is the unvote from Anony putting Anony even with Comedian wagon. Except it went to Protoman weirdly. And then he decided on a new Chitose wagon in that rush right after CATS' claim. Chitose rather than go back to the Comedian semi-suspicion he had during N3 with under 3 hours left? Johnny Cage: Who do you intend to vote today? Furthermore, there's no mention of Mai in Day 5 after you were so bothered by her chainsawing in Day 4. What changed there? Almost makes me want to lynch him over Chitose. Gonna think about who's worse after I see some replies.

For Mai... Along with a now confirmed Scum Comedian saying he would attack Anony (Town) and Mai (unconfirmed alignment) when it looked like he was in no danger; Mai looks real good to me based on Day 4 vote patterns. She dropped Anony from 2 to 1, putting Comedian solely in the lead. It doesn't look like she was planning a Comedian bus either because she was so indignant about new Johnny Cage following some confirmation bias. Having not followed the game closely till Day 4, I think that's been her playstyle all game, but by happenstance, it managed to secure a Scum lynch. I don't like it personally, but I lynch Scum over scummy players and I don't think she's Scum primarily because of the above. And she may very well be right on Johnny Cage so that sudden change gets a pass so far.

Chitose: It's not about you having to choose Anony over Mai or the other way around. It's that you didn't really commit to an opinion on Anony and given how that turned out, I think you look bad for it.


As for your defense by proxy, Cage was a nice place for Mai to put her vote to avoid the Comedian wagon,   And of course, being gung-ho is one thing, but having opinions swing (regarding Kyon) from towniest town to scummiest scum in the course of D2 and D3 is not just being gung-ho, is about having opinions to suit the day in question, which is scummy, especially when there is little to no consideration of other interesting targets. 

Seeing that there's some similarity between me and Mai in your accusation of me scatter-shooting cases, I don't like how you are handwaving Mai's past actions, either.

What if Cage happens to be Scum as well? And I finally got around to rereading my predecessor's Day 2 and Day 3. I read it as previousMonoe was always on Kyon with the lone initial Day 3 Anony vote. Other than being consistently bad at "I'll get the Chitose reread going again" and then linking Chitose and Kyon as buddies, but being wrong on Kyon, I'm not really pleased with that on my collective record. But I don't see this opinion swing you're talking about.

Protoman thinks Mai's response to Protoman's question was town, and now believes Chitose was the third virus on her town wagon.

Question to Protoman. What question of yours are you referring to. And what's this talk about 3rd virus on her Town wagon? What wagon and when was this and what happened to the second virus?

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #799 on: May 21, 2011, 06:35:27 AM »
My opinion on Annonymous is that while I found him anti-town, I did not find him scummy.  And there are many what-ifs to be made, but Comedian flipped scum and Cage did not.  Resting on someone other than scum at the very least merits some attention, especially since Mai's first vote was based on the Protoman thing alone.

As for your predecessor's 'opinion swing',it was not so much a swing as it was a refusal to look into Mai on D3 when Mai and Kyon were pitted together.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #800 on: May 21, 2011, 06:36:54 AM »
Quite the breakdown on Comedian's scumminess, but he did say he'd prefer an Anony lynch still. He was consistent on that. Once again, not an efficient gameplan for ScumCage to win the game as he would have to bus Comedian during that potential LYLO if he wanted to remain consistent. But the caveat is that when LYLO hits, opinions sometimes must change for either side to win.
He wasn't breaking down Comedian's scumminess though. Cage said that Comedian sounded 'incredibly genuine.' Protoman interprets this as Cage clearing Comedian as town.

Protoman thinks Monoe and all Navis should look at everything! Protoman was referring to looking over Cage's Day 1, 2 and 3 play. Old Monoe himself did some of that un-useful NK analysis :p Cage was also involved and wanted to not look at it yet, or ever if Cage's later play is understood. Protoman has a hard time seeing this town intent other Navis say Cage has and had.

Quote
Question to Protoman. What question of yours are you referring to. And what's this talk about 3rd virus on her Town wagon? What wagon and when was this and what happened to the second virus?
Protoman means the question of why Mai hammered Comedian right away, and Protoman refers to the end votecount on Day 3. All Navis on Mai's wagon are town and accounted for except for Chitose. Chitose was the third vote on her wagon. If Chitose is not a virus this would make Mai extra suspicious. What does New Monoe think of Old Monoe's opinions on the Mai voters on Day 3?

Chitose, do you think you could make a case on Monoe? Protoman would find a dedicated case like that interesting.

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #801 on: May 21, 2011, 08:36:54 AM »
I think it's a little premature to make a case on Monoe given that most of what I feel is scummy about her is linked to her clearing of Mai (e.g defending her when not called for) without much evidence of thought during the Kyon-Mai thing on D3  and her lack of presence from late-D3 to early-D5.  There's also some evidence of trying to be able to fit into any wagon today due to her saying that my Crocker case was good (but not following up on that), but other than that she did find original reasons to press me and original stuff to add onto other cases.  To be honest, she does seem quite clean other than the above, and barring a Mai scum flip, I don't think I will be very hard in pursuing her for now.  Crocker and Mai are far better targets and more questionable.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #802 on: May 21, 2011, 02:05:32 PM »
@Chitose: What is your opinion on Cage? Is he town or scum?
 
@Everyone: Please name your top 3 suspects right now, in the order you would like to see them lynched.
 
For me right now, it goes like this:
 
Cage
Chitose
Crocker
 

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #803 on: May 21, 2011, 04:12:18 PM »
Hey Mai, I'm having a really hard time following your logic (Note: Portal 2 spoilers). Can you explain it step by step to me?

And as for reasons why he is scum besides Chainsaw:
 
How about his attempt to sneak onto the Comedian wagon at the end of yesterday, to gain some town cred?

I can't understand how you concluded that I was trying to do this. I am also unclear on your cases on Chitose and Crocker; could you outline them, in the same way you outlined why you thought the Comedian was fake claiming in post 781? It doesn't matter if they've already been said, it would be immensely helpful to know which reasons you agree with and which reasons you disagree with.

@ Protoman - Several times throughout the past few days, you've mention that you find Monoe scummy and a possible scum pick, but I've had a little bit of trouble following your case as well. What have you found scummy about Monoe?

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #804 on: May 21, 2011, 04:20:57 PM »
Before I give you cases on Crocker and Chitose, let me point out that Proto has consistently called Monoe the only player he trusts.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #805 on: May 21, 2011, 04:35:24 PM »
Protoman considers everyone all the time. Protoman would make a case on CATS if he felt there was something worth pursuing. The only Navis Protoman doesn't consider suspects are dead. If Protoman pointed to something specific about Monoe that was suspicious it would be Day 3. Just all of Day 3. Protoman would consider Mai for her Day 1. Protoman thinks Chitose and Cage are more likely, but Protoman dislikes that everyone agrees again. Protoman would consider Crock Pot because his answer for hammering Sailor Moon didn't sound like a town that regretted deleting one of his own. If Protoman is wrong about who he suspects Protoman would rather find links now then panic tomorrow.

Chitose > Cage > Crocker

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #806 on: May 21, 2011, 04:49:14 PM »
Before I give you cases on Crocker and Chitose, let me point out that Proto has consistently called Monoe the only player he trusts.

Protoman's trust in Monoe was broken yesterday, to the point of voicing her as a possible day 4 lynch.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Protoman considers everyone all the time. Protoman would make a case on CATS if he felt there was something worth pursuing. The only Navis Protoman doesn't consider suspects are dead. If Protoman pointed to something specific about Monoe that was suspicious it would be Day 3. Just all of Day 3. Protoman would consider Mai for her Day 1. Protoman thinks Chitose and Cage are more likely, but Protoman dislikes that everyone agrees again. Protoman would consider Crock Pot because his answer for hammering Sailor Moon didn't sound like a town that regretted deleting one of his own. If Protoman is wrong about who he suspects Protoman would rather find links now then panic tomorrow.

Chitose > Cage > Crocker

Thank you for the clarification.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #807 on: May 21, 2011, 04:58:04 PM »
Cage, while I answer your questions, will you answer mine about the top 3 suspects in order of lynch preference?

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #808 on: May 21, 2011, 08:52:17 PM »
Cage, while I answer your questions, will you answer mine about the top 3 suspects in order of lynch preference?

I want Chitose and Crocker lynched in that order. I'm not really sure about my third scum pick, since it's pretty much all over for me anyway if Chitose flips town, and I'm either first or second in all the lynch orders so far. Assuming Lylo with you and Monoe, I would have to say your play doesn't seem scum motivated, but I have trouble understanding your logic. Having your cases whould be immensely helpful for understanding your mindset. I also have some trouble understanding Monoe; she mentioned becoming really unmotivated in the later days; which I have trouble understanding from a town perspective. From a scum perspective though, her being somewhat targetted as scum by Protoman could really demotivate her. The last time I played scum, a measely fingerpoint utterly destroyed my motivation to play the game, so while I don't understand why a fingerpoint would cause Monoe's loss of motivation as town, I do understand why scum would break under a little pressure. However, I have heard of town losing motivation as well, so I'm not sure how good the tell is. K4U, for example, mentioned losing all her motivation to play under accusation even though she was town. Not enough to quit outright, but she was still really demotivated.

Since I can't ask old Monoe what her mindset was after she quit, I would like to see more posts from new Monoe and your cases on Chitose and Crocker before I decide on my third scum pick.

Sasword

  • Sasword
Re: Mafia History Mafia - Day 5
« Reply #809 on: May 21, 2011, 09:35:11 PM »
Protoman: Cage's N3 post feeling genuine doesn't mean anything in terms of scumminess. Much like how Chitose's reaction to not wanting to pursue me Day 5 feels genuine from my point of view as well. Doesn't mean I'm going to let either of them go on those alone.

I will add on that Cage ignoring questions I asked of him in my wall feels genuinely bad. Just in case he glazed over the pure white text, I'll put the questions I want answered in quotes for him.


Johnny Cage: Who do you intend to vote today? Furthermore, there's no mention of Mai in Day 5 after you were so bothered by her chainsawing in Day 4. What changed there?

Ok, went over Mai's Day 2 and Day 3. I see... the 180 on Kyon is pretty surprising. It doesn't look like she decided on Kyon because of an OMGUS though. Looking at this post, her terribad flaw is to make the initial assumption that Kyon was Scum and knew that "xxx would flip Town." In other words, her case on Kyon is bad because she presumed guilty before innocent. The "I don't want to provide cases on other people, you provide them first" act is really tiring for most of this game (other players used this as well). Now, is all this bad Townie play or Scum play? Considering if she were Scum and Kyon would have flipped that Day, it makes her look terrible and a likely target for others on Day 4. Comedian (a Scum) was one of them. That's where the crux of my willing to clear Mai comes from. It still stands because of how much effort Comedian outlined into his Mai case on Day 4 before Protoman attacked him. Such as:

The presence of the Mai wagon on D3 should provide some good solid analysis, but while I'd wager that both Anonymous and Mai will flip scum, I'm not willing to cement a third scumpick based on that assumption.  Put another way, there's no one I'd be willing to lynch over Anonymous or Mai right now.  The other scum will probably become more clear after we have their wagons and flips to deal with.

Back to Mai, considering she also called Cage Town on Day 3 and look at where she is at end of Day 4 and Day 5, her sporadic changes are consistent if that's any consolation. I can see this as Townie play (no matter how bad it looks) and that along with Comedian's push on Day 4 is enough to give me a clear on her today. If we don't get a Scum lynch today, everyone is fair game in LYLO with the likely exception of CATS.

So current cases: Chitose is first due to evidence of not pursuing Comedian during Comedian/Kyon Day 1 discussion. Suspected Anony-distancing in Day 4. Bare acknowledgement of Protoman's Day 4 Comedian case when it was first introduced. To respond to you, sure, Mai starting on Anony on Day 4 merits some attention. I gave it my attention and decided she's not the one to go for today. Your what-ifs defense also raises a black flag to me. Scum thrive on what-ifs to get passes for behavior that paints them in a non-white light.

Crocker and Cage are interchangable at the moment because we haven't seen Crocker contribute to Day 5 yet. I see both of them could be Scum in different ways: Crocker for hesitating on the Day 4 wagons and Cage for reasons I've stated before. They're both at interesting spots because it seems like almost everyone's top 3 involves these players. I'd prefer to go one at a time and Chitose is clearly first. However, if Chitose flips Scum, Cage will look worse than Crocker. If Chitose flips Town, a complete reevaluation will be needed.

Cage cut: Ok, I guess you indirectly answered everything there. Why you didn't start off with such a post at the start of Day 5 is weird. Any new opinions about me now?