Author Topic: Mafia History Mafia - Game Over (Read 74637 times)

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #360 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:00:17 AM »

Kyon (4): Monoe, John Cage, The Comedian, Sailor Moon, CATS
Light Yagami (1): Protoman.EXE, Mr. Crocker, Kyon, Chitose Karasuma, John Cage
CATS (0): Anonymous, Protoman.EXE
Sailor Moon (6): Mai Tokiha, Light Yagami, Anonymous, Kyon, John Cage, Protoman.EXE
Chitose Karasuma (1): Dick Gumshoe
Mai Tokiha (1): Chitose Karasuma

No vote cast: No one!

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. You have about 23 hours to vote.

Sailor Moon is at L-1!

Faiz · « **Reply #361 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:01:58 AM »

Quote

Mr. Kyon-
Early case on Comedian is bad, as it is OMGUS-y because you thought he should get your vote for trying to start a wagon on you.
His initial vote of Moon looks bad as it uses another person's case as a summation of how he feels and because of her emotions and reporting. #143 is reportery and doesn't give a definite opinion of Moon, who he still has his vote on. His unvote of Sailor Moon is suspicious, as his reasoning is that she was trying after her crazy long post.
This leads me to believe he hopped onto the another wagon when he saw his case was invalid and weak. He's been passive in his hunting and jumps on wagons, contributing little to town. Voicing willingness to lynch.

He presents two main arguments.

Kyon's vote on Sailor Moon is bad.

Kyon's unvote of Sailor Moon is bad.

These /CAN/ co-exist... but not with the reasons he gave.

The reasons he gives for Kyon's vote on Sailor Moon being bad essentially attributes to wanting to find an easy lynch.

The reasons he gives for the unvote being bad would actually imply that Kyon is scum with Sailor Moon.

You see the problem here? Kyon can't be bussing Sailor Moon if he's also looking for an easy mislynch.

Essentially, Crocker is just taking small things that aren't the best town play EVER, and twisting them into scum tells.

Ouja · « **Reply #362 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:07:50 AM »

Further adding the point that people don't read what I say. That is one passive as hell attack.

Can't wait 'till Mai sees my flip so she can adjust her list.

Faiz · « **Reply #363 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:08:31 AM »

Quote from: Sailor Moon on May 11, 2011, 01:07:50 AM

Further adding the point that people don't read what I say. That is one passive as hell attack.

Can't wait 'till Mai sees my flip so she can adjust her list.

I agree. I cannot wait until you flip scum so I can confirm some of my suspicions :3

Ryuki · « **Reply #364 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:26:40 AM »

The speed at which the Light wagon has disbanded itself is disconcerting to me, as he was, and still is the one whom I wish to lynch the most and the one I find scummiest in the game.

That being said, between the Kyon/Moon wagons, I find Moon to be the scummier of the two and her flip will give town much more to work with. I am expressing willingness to vote her, but I shall hold off for now as that would put her at L-1 with too much time left in the day for my preference. Kyon has been looking a little better to me, whereas Moon has been going down, especially with her overreaction at the thing with the wrong account used. I would like to hear any final opinions or cases from her before I put my vote down.

CATS-
I still find scummy. The first half of his only D2 contribution is completely reportery. He lacks a complete opinion of Moon, clearing her from what I can only see as "Her wagon was strange and had hoppers on it." I can't even see a real reason for his Kyon vote other than he jumped wagons, which is a horribly lazy case. Rising like the wind on my scumdar, becoming near to Light in desire to lynch. He has had a general and lazy lack of opinions on other people than the main wagons each day, and I fail to see any town intent in him, but rather scum intent.

Gumshoes-
I like the first few posts, as I see townie intent, but it is later I find a problem. The votepark for the entire day on someone who clearly isn't getting lynched right now gives me the feeling of wagon avoidance. Still wanna lean on the townie side, as this just gives me slight uneasiness.

@Mai
I personally don't agree about judging scumminess based on how people find unconfirmeds you think town as scummy, but I digress as that is more of a matter of opinion.
And what about CATS makes him better than me on your list, seriously? What?

@Monoe
I answered your question, so I ask that you answer mine.

Quote

Light did evidently attempt to produce cases throughout the day

Quote

Please direct me to any post of his D1 where he does this.
If I'm interpreting any of this wrong please tell me:
1st post: Vote on Moon
2nd: Says Prinny scummy, no pressure at all
3rd: Defence from Cage suspicions
4th: Convinces Whim to change wagons to where his vote is
I completely fail to see how you reach that conclusion.

New replies
Well it looks like she's at L-1 already. I will still wait for her before I put the vote down.
Protoman, even though I find you on the townier side, please don't fight my battles for me. I am able to handle myself.

Mai #361
I feel a misrep.
Yes those are my arguments.
Yes that is why I think his vote was bad.
No I am not implying a scumteam, and this is where I feel the misrep.
Each on their own is individually scummy, but I am not pushing or implying a Kyon/Moon scumteam, and never have. They are both individuals, and I'm not trying to combine their actions together to find scumtells.
Am I being clear on this?

I'm going to get this post out here.

Ouja · « **Reply #365 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:33:51 AM »

I already explained what I want. I've made the cases on those I find scum. An awful lot of shit will get revealed with my flip. Take those as you may, everyone in this game has an opinion of me, I think we're good here.

Now take my tiara and hurl that bitch at me.

Faiz · « **Reply #366 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:35:23 AM »

Crocker, if you aren't pushing a Kyon/Moon scum team, then you shouldn't find Kyon's unvote all that scummy.

Especially on a day with plurality lynch.

W · « **Reply #367 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:40:57 AM »

Actually, I can see Kyon's unvote of S/M to be scummy, although it depends on if S/M flips scum. His unvote was the defining one, tying the wagons and pushing Prinny into the lead lynch.

Faiz · « **Reply #368 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:44:04 AM »

Quote from: Anonymous (4chan) on May 11, 2011, 01:40:57 AM

Actually, I can see Kyon's unvote of S/M to be scummy, although it depends on if S/M flips scum. His unvote was the defining one, tying the wagons and pushing Prinny into the lead lynch.

Exactly my point. Without his vote, Sailor Moon would have been lynched.

So it speaks to reason that as scum, he would know that it would draw attention if he switched his vote.

And so the only reason for changing his vote as scum at that point in time, would be if Sailor Moon were ALSO scum.

See the logic?

Faiz · « **Reply #369 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:44:44 AM »

EBWOP: If he hadn't changed his vote, Sailor Moon would have been lynched instead.

That's what I meant to say for the first line.

Ouja · « **Reply #370 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:45:10 AM »

Just be quiet and let's get my flip so you two can stop that ridiculous nonsense.

W · « **Reply #371 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:51:43 AM »

Yes, I see that his unvote would be explained as scum if S/M is scum. So... well, we'll see with S/M's flip, since this entire thing rides on that.

Ryuki · « **Reply #372 on:** May 11, 2011, 02:03:39 AM »

##Vote: Sailor Moon
Here goes nothing.

Ryuki · « **Reply #373 on:** May 11, 2011, 02:04:24 AM »

##Unvote
##Vote: Sailor Moon
If that really makes a difference.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #374 on:** May 11, 2011, 02:07:23 AM »

HAMMER SHUT UP

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #375 on:** May 11, 2011, 02:09:24 AM »

whoop

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #376 on:** May 11, 2011, 02:10:43 AM »

Kyon (4): Monoe, John Cage, The Comedian, Sailor Moon, CATS
Light Yagami (0): Protoman.EXE, Mr. Crocker, Kyon, Chitose Karasuma, John Cage
CATS (0): Anonymous, Protoman.EXE
Sailor Moon (7): Mai Tokiha, Light Yagami, Anonymous, Kyon, John Cage, Protoman.EXE, Mr. Crocker
Chitose Karasuma (1): Dick Gumshoe
Mai Tokiha (1): Chitose Karasuma

No vote cast: No one!

Sailor Moon the Vanilla Townie, with the power to do nothing special, was punished for her lunarcy!
C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER the Proximity Minecrafter, equipped with a single proximity mine, was too busy playing MMOs to remember this game existed!

It is now Night 2. If you have a night action, you have 24 hours to send it in.

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #377 on:** May 11, 2011, 02:14:46 AM »

Oh for fucks sake, seriously? I'll need to look into the Sailor Moon wagon tomorrow morning, as well as Crocker, I think.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #378 on:** May 12, 2011, 02:17:05 AM »

Dick Gumshoe the Vanilla Townie(s?), with the power to do nothing special, was (were?) killed overnight!

It is now Day 3. With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. You have 72 hours. Happy hunting!

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #379 on:** May 12, 2011, 02:18:51 AM »

Going to say now I overslept this morning and was basically going from one place to another all day, or doing something. I didn't have time to do the promised analysis, and I hope to do it tomorrow morning.

Sasword · « **Reply #380 on:** May 12, 2011, 02:20:15 AM »

Ugh. Would it have hurt to wait until after I had done my Chitose re-read to hammer? I am incredibly irritated at the way D2 played out.

Actual content coming eventually (wasn't motivated enough to bother overnight), but I just wanted to say that.

Sasword · « **Reply #381 on:** May 12, 2011, 02:41:12 AM »

Ugh nevermind. I spent a total of like two seconds on this, but I don't expect a more in-depth re-read to change my opinions very much.

##Vote Anonymous
Dropped his CATS case completely when nobody hopped on and it looked like ~~Honest Town~~ Sailor Moon had potential to be the day's lynch, which is pretty scummy wagon hopping if you ask me. He didn't even explain what happened to his CATS case when he switched, so his CATS vote looks an awful lot like a park vote to make him appear like he's targeting people other than Moon. In fact, Anon has barely explained where he gets his conclusions this game in general and it's awful because it seems like he has no thought process.

Kyon still looks horrible. All his targets have been easy ones, and Sailor Moon's flip does not make him look any better. I still think the sudden switch to Prinny following Moon's post of defense looks like scum switching their main target to another townie after anticipating people being persuaded to unvote Moon. I have no idea why Kyon was voting Light over Moon during ED2 considering that he switched later. Maybe it was because Light looked like he had more potential as the D2 lynch at the time. I wish we could have two lynches today because it really irritates me that he's possibly going to stay alive even longer.

I could possibly buy the Light case now that Sailor Moon has flipped, but Kyon has been scummy the whole game and arghkjdfhakjf. I still despise the way we went about playing D2, but it's not like I could actually do anything about it with at least half the game ignoring my posts.

CATS is still as scummy as he was yesterday but sigh so are like half the living players and I only have one vote instead of the five or so that would be optimal for this game. I'm expecting a bunch of people to pile onto Mai and Crocker today, but I personally think they look like a townie with tunnel vision and a townie affected by peer pressure, respectively. (WHY WHY WHY did like four townies including the lynch themself decide that ending the day when there were 22 hours left was a good idea, argh.)

People who look good to me:
The Comedian
Protoman
And... that's about it. I still need to do that Chitose re-read too.

Sasword · « **Reply #382 on:** May 12, 2011, 02:45:22 AM »

Oh right. Anon was also one of the people who seemed to support hammering Honest Town and ending the day early, providing a scummy influence. I think that's worse than what Crocker did, too, since it seems to me that Crocker only hammered because people (including Moon herself) were encouraging it and he was around at the time.

OOO · « **Reply #383 on:** May 12, 2011, 02:54:49 AM »

Right, first up, the post that I attempted to make last night before Crocker's hammer cut me off, verbatim, minus the bits about the Sailor Moon case as they're no longer relevant. Will compose a reply taking flips into account after this, but want to get this out there immediately:

Gumshoe: I actually agree with you that Protoman's #53 points against Kyon and Monoe were misrep. When I got to that post, I noted to myself that if he continued to push it as a serious point when better stuff was coming up, I'd call him out on it. The thing is, Kyon responded to it with misrep of his own along with OMGUS. And when Protoman moved on to other cases, Kyon continued to press him with bad points to the exclusion of paying attention to anyone else, and that's what I voted him for. Kyon's further reactions of OMGUS and bandwagoning later in the game solidified my scum read, and the merits of Protoman's post-RVS case have nothing to do with that.

Cage: What you say about posting reads without reasoning in order to study responses sounds like mere gotcha games. There's too much WIFOM and meta in how a given player will respond to a case without content for that technique to be useful far outside of RVS or maybe in an unassailable position in LyLo. There's aggressive scumhunting, and then there's just stirring shit up.

Regarding CATS, for most of the game he's provided just enough opinions with bare-bones reasoning to evaluate his thought process and connect him to flips. Today, he's slipping over the line of being a liability to the town. Pending flips and analysis, he's going to have to post a lot of content tomorrow for me not to put him somewhere in my top three lynch picks.

Ryuki · « **Reply #384 on:** May 12, 2011, 03:25:40 AM »

Mai-
Looks horrible in light of flip given her tunneling on Moon. And originally, she was one of the first to really pressure Moon ED1 for her bad play scum could easily jump on. Wanna hear a nice long post from her, telling who is scum, and why without basing it off of the alignment of unconfirmed players.

Light-
Can we lynch the scum now? Still forever scum to me, especially with the flip. D1, voteparked on Moon for easy reasons, never followed up at all or did any more hunting. Stood on sidelines of Prinny wagon. I've gone over this before, and now it looks a whole lot worse with Moon's flip. Seriously, I still find him the scummiest thing in the game now. And the way the entire wagon bailed off of him feels terribly unnatural.

##Vote: Light Yagami

CATS-
Opinion of him has not changed and I still don't like, as he looks super opportunistic and lazy. I see no town intent whatsoever. Voicing willingness to lynch.

Kyon-
Worse with flip. Original vote on Moon was opportunistic and lazy, seeing as how he referenced another's case to voice his own opinion. Very wagon-y, seeing as how he put her at L-2. His later D2 was looking better, so even though he doesn't look good at all, he's not my pick right now.

Anonymous-
As I said before, D1 was reportery and original content was lacking. When following up on Moon after his vote, references other cases as opinions. Questions asked are not followed up on and smelled passive to me.
D2, CATS vote seemed easy and seems like he tried to start a wagon. The stuff after his vote on Moon in #306 were throwaway comments as they did not give real scum opinions. Rest of the day was about Moon. Really, we only have scum opinions on one person right now, which I find not helpful to town, and that person is CATS, which is :/
Rising in suspiciousness.

@Monoe
Given the way you heavily defended Light, I would like more than a line on how you could buy his case now.

Gonna get this post out here.

Decade · « **Reply #385 on:** May 12, 2011, 03:37:58 AM »

Protoman is glad we used Day 2 to productively prove both fast building Day 1 wagons that Protoman didn't like at first were town. Protoman appreciates Sailor Moon claiming to be a virus and sinking an entire day for no reason. Protoman was also pleased that while he was reading over Sailor Moon knowing what foolish operator her words came from other Navis interpreted him voting for her as a good reason to end the day while many questions were left unanswered... hold on. Protoman appears to have his Sarcasm chip installed. Removing.

Protoman hates voting. Hates hates hates HATES voting. Protoman spent last night bashing his head against a wall. Protoman is going to Muramasa Sword Sailor Moon's operator in the face after all real viruses are deleted.

Protoman is echoing what Sailor Moon called for yesterday from many Navis. Protoman wants to see three possible virus picks from the following list of Navis with decent explanations behind them. Protoman will treat any who do not answer this as dead to him. Protoman does not care if Navis complain about it being hard. Protoman will also note he doesn't intend to do this himself first. Because that is how he rolls and you can deal with it.

Talk to Protoman: Anonymous, The Comedian, CATS, Chitose, Mai, Kyon, Light.

Protoman also wants this from Crocker. Protoman thinks Crock Pot has something else to explain first. Crock Pot has 24 hours to explain why he thought destroying Sailor Moon early was a good idea and what possible benefit it would bring to town. Crock Pot had better be honest.

Protoman agrees with Monoe that yesterday was irritating and Protoman would have liked to hear from both Monoe and Cage about a reread on Chitose before it ended. Protoman doesn't find anything wrong with Monoe's vote. Protoman still believes that reread is important and called for. Protoman doesn't like that there are so many Navis that Protoman doesn't know the opinions of on the third day.

Sasword · « **Reply #386 on:** May 12, 2011, 03:40:01 AM »

Notes from re-reading Chitose:

This is worthless without knowledge of Kyon's alignment, but I dislike how much Chitose attacks him throughout the game without really putting any sincere pressure on him. I'm not even sure why she chose Prinny over him at the end of ED1, as she had talked about her suspicions on Kyon throughout the day but never even so much as mentioned Prinny until the voteswitch. That looks fairly poor in my mind, and would seem incredibly damning if Kyon flipped scum.
Chitose's vote on Light in #250 disappoints me a lot. She evidently has a lot more dirt on Kyon, but instead attacks Light in a manner that looks interestingly like a chainsaw defense of Kyon. It should be noted that I'm pretty sure my D2 case on Kyon did not involve his ED1 votes against Comedian and Protoman either, and yet Chitose seemed to ignore me completely in favor of attacking Light when both myself and him were guilty of the same things.
Oh hey, Chitose's #329. Her priorities here continue to irk me. Up until now I had been under the impression that Chitose considered Kyon to look worse than Mai after she claimed that Kyon looked the worst on D1, and so her choice to vote Mai instead while continuing to attack Kyon seems oddly like she's avoiding lending her support to the Kyon wagon for whatever reason.
The amount of times I saw Chitose awkwardly press Kyon made me interested in seeing how Kyon viewed Chitose. A quick search through his posts show that the only notable mentioned beyond Kyon's responses to her find that the only time Kyon mentioned her consisted of him clearing Chitose as town and then later considering her as a potential alternate scumpick based on reasoning that was availiable back when he cleared Chitose as town. I don't think his opinions on her seem very believable.

... Wow, Chitose and Kyon look a lot like buddies in my mind following this re-read. It really is astounding how much Chitose pokes Kyon and yet somehow manages to avoid actually downright attacking him. It feels like she's setting up a potential bus in case it's ever necessary, but not going through with it in hopes he can survive a little while longer and dancing around slamming her vote down on him. Kyon and Anon are nearly equal in complete scummitude my mind, so I'm willing to prioritize Kyon higher in my mind now on account of information following his flip. We'd get dirt on Mai, too, which would be neat.

##Unvote
##Vote Kyon

Throwing around scumpairs this early may seem a bit silly, but it's not like Kyon isn't worth of a lynch on his own anyway (seriously, I've gone over this at least one million times by now). So hey, Chitose, care to explain what has been up with your prioritization of your case on Kyon throughout the game? It looks quite awkward to me, and I would like to see it cleared up.

Cut by Crocker: Moon flipped town. I now know that Light's D1 wagon hop was on a townie. That's about it.
Cut by Protoman being yandere. I hope this post answers him about my Chitose re-read.

Sasword · « **Reply #387 on:** May 12, 2011, 03:49:32 AM »

Speaking of priorities, I think mine look a little unclear at this point. I'll follow Mai's example and see where that goes.

SCUM
Kyon
Anon
-
CATS
-
-
Light Yagami
Chitose Karasuma (but much higher if Kyon flips scum)
Mr. Crocker
Mai Tokiha
-
John Cage
-
-
Protoman.EXE
The Comedian
TOWN

I also think that doing that Chitose re-read helped me regain my motivation and cool down my rage, which means I'll hopefully start trying harder than I was during my late D2 and my D3 opener. Sorry about the meltdown. ?(

Decade · « **Reply #388 on:** May 12, 2011, 04:06:14 AM »

Monoe: This god damn town. Protoman also finds rereading brings his logic circuits into focus. Does Monoe agree that Chitose has similar avoidance behaviour with CATS despite having voted him and vice-versa?

Ryuki · « **Reply #389 on:** May 12, 2011, 04:08:33 AM »

@Protoman

The wagon on the person I had found the scummiest deserted me. There was no way I would get my Light lynch, so there was no point in keeping my vote on him, for one. I would rather actively use my vote to lynch someone scummy than stand idly by.
At this point, I would have to choose between the Moon and Kyon wagon. Moon was worse to me and Kyon was looking better.
In my late D2 post, I was expressing willingness to put her at L-1, but didn't do it as I wanted her to give last opinions and cases before the possibility of getting her hammered.
Then cut by your own vote, at which point I add to my post that I was willing to hammer.
Moon then comes back to me stating that she has no more left to say and requests to be hammered.
I hammer because I see it as the most logical action to do at the time and because we would not get anything more out of Moon for the rest of day. I hope this answers your question.

But also, Protoman, if you did not want someone hammered too early in the day, then you should not have put her at L-1 that early. By putting someone at L-1, you acknowledge that they could be hammered at any time. I hope you realize this.