Windows Gaming Experience

[Mayson]

I hope I dropped that in the right section. It's not a game itself, but has a lot to do with that topic.

So, this is what Microsoft has been working on for some time. I will just leave the link of it here without a comment, because I'm unsure how to react to this and because the initial post shouldn't give any biased opinions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBPYdgy35KA&feature=player_embedded

What do you think about it?

[DX7.EP]

Microsoft? And PC gaming? Oh the irony.

Steam has already won here, and even the Mac App Store has leads over GFWL.

It is VERY clear that Microsoft is moving the traditional gamer community to its more managed (and profitable) Xbox ecosystem, while using PC as a haven for casual gaming. And for its PC IPs, it is also dumbing down the experience for them (Flight Simulator -> MS Flight, and ESPECIALLY the casual Civ V-esque Age of Empires Online, which annoys me as someone who grew up with Age II).

Even with these manoeuvres, it seems that MSFT is using its usual Ballmer-era business strategy of "copy first, try to profit second, innovate much later", which was successful for the Xbox but not for Zune, Windows Mobile, Kin, and (arguably) Windows Live.

If MSFT didn't have DirectX and Windows' absurdly high market share, I'd bet many PC-centric companies (Valve, id, Blizzard, most indie/doujin/smaller studios) would move elsewhere. Sadly, this is not the case (Carmack, one of the biggest OpenGL supporters, has changed mind and favours DirectX for development now).

[orinrin]

I'm totally diggin' the number of dislikes on that video.  If their goal is creating a platform for casual gaming, then by all means do so.  Just leave me out of it.

[Wisp]

I'm totally diggin' the number of dislikes on that video.  If their goal is creating a platform for casual gaming, then by all means do so.  Just leave me out of it.

Agreed. MMOs is where PCs shine, IMHO. Also I lol'd at "Heh. P0wned" at 2:50.

[An Odd Sea Slug]

Microsoft, why exactly are you trying to go back in time now? I do not understand... The video was, in addition to being really boring, was... off putting. The blatant stereo typing might have had something to do with that.

[HakureiSM]

Agreed. MMOs is where PCs shine, IMHO.

You would be wrong at that, but that's an entirely different discussion.

On topic, as someone who grew on Flight Simulator, Age II and Urban Assault and loves his Xbox 360, Microsoft, I'm disappoint.

Brb finding out what this Flight thing is, a couple teaser trailers in YT told me dick. I'm afraid I'll be very disappointed.
I've played every Flight Simulator except 2004 since DOS. Still have a Caribbean expansion floppy for the DOS somewhere.
e: Nifty graphics, but I wonder if the *simulation* part is still effective. Also are those goddamn Live avatars in the planes? Gross.

[DX7.EP]

You would be wrong at that, but that's an entirely different discussion.

On topic, as someone who grew on Flight Simulator, Age II and Urban Assault and loves his Xbox 360, Microsoft, I'm disappoint.

Brb finding out what this Flight thing is, a couple teaser trailers in YT told me dick. I'm afraid I'll be very disappointed.
I've played every Flight Simulator except 2004 since DOS. Still have a Caribbean expansion floppy for the DOS somewhere.
e: Nifty graphics, but I wonder if the *simulation* part is still effective. Also are those goddamn Live avatars in the planes? Gross.

I played some Flight Simulator (98 and 2002, IIRC) back in the day, but spent FAR more time on Age II (one of the best RTS games IMO, and even now I might play a game or two).

Age Online has me very worried, though. It seems to be little more than a mix of Civ World's social strategy game model (except it'd probably be real-time and not turn-based) and the art deco style of Civ V, combined with GFWL integration (what, the stupid avatars are the civ leaders?) and a dumbing down of classic Age strategy (as if Age III wasn't bad enough). I don't like the looks of this...

...and if it doesn't have Ornlu the Wolf (I hate that bastard) or the COBRA car cheat (or Age I's photon man) I will be VERY disappointed.

[HakureiSM]

(as if Age III was bad enough)

oh thank you

Last month I dreamed Microsoft got off their asses and made a great remake of Urban Assault.
God how I wish it wasn't a dream.

Instead we get integration with Farmville. hooray

[Jana]

Agreed. MMOs is where PCs shine, IMHO.

Partof the problem is that companies are seeing games like Farmville as more profitable nowadays than the traditional-0sort of MMOs. PC gaming isn't all MMOs or social hames, but that's where the moneyt is right now...

Sorry about my tping ;_;

[DX7.EP]

oh thank you

Last month I dreamed Microsoft got off their asses and made a great remake of Urban Assault.
God how I wish it wasn't a dream.

Instead we get integration with Farmville. hooray

If MSFT cared decently about the PC we'd be getting all their Xbox-only titles as well, DLC content would arrive on the same time as it would on 360 (got especially pissed off over the GTA IV DLC due to this), and Ensemble Studios would still be alive and kicking with a proper RTS. It would probably also revamp GFWL a lot, facilitate simultaneous PC/360 development and release, and remake and maintain its older games (if a graphical revamp of Age II with the same gameplay was made, I'd buy 4+ copies without even thinking).

And if Age farms integrated with FarmVille farms I could only imagine the idiocy of the micro-management (what, I have to deal with each freaking chicken and corn shoot on EVERY SINGLE ONE of my farms but can't assign formations to my massive army?)  :ohdear:

[Zengar Zombolt]

Partof the problem is that companies are seeing games like Farmville as more profitable nowadays than the traditional-0sort of MMOs. PC gaming isn't all MMOs or social hames, but that's where the moneyt is right now...

You can say Farmville is what they call "Casual MMORPG".
I'm sorry Microsoft but a casual MMORPG cannot exist, by definition. :V

[DX7.EP]

You can say Farmville is what they call "Casual MMORPG".
I'm sorry Microsoft but a casual MMORPG cannot exist, by definition. :V

So true. Clearly they're incorrectly using that to refer to MMORPGs that are easy to get into and expect 10-15 minutes of your daily time.

It's so strange that even though MSFT practically owns much of the PC market, it can't use its heavy weight to promote gaming in a proper sense.

[helvetica]

You can say Farmville is what they call "Casual MMORPG".
I'm sorry Microsoft but a casual MMORPG cannot exist, by definition. :V

I dunno, say all you want but F2P games like MapleStory ARE casual.  They're only hardcore when you seriously start investing time and money into them.

So true. Clearly they're incorrectly using that to refer to MMORPGs that are easy to get into and expect 10-15 minutes of your daily time.

Farmville requires far more than just 10-15 minutes of your time, same with Peggle.  The whole concept of "casual" is they're easy for a non-gamer to get into and are marketed completely differently.

It's so strange that even though MSFT practically owns much of the PC market, it can't use its heavy weight to promote gaming in a proper sense.

Why is this strange?  Why support your direct competitor?  Microsoft makes far more money from software licensing on the 360 than any goodwill they'd earn supporting the PC platform.  Remember you don't need a fancy devkit and tens of thousands of dollars in licensing fees to make a PC game.  GFWL only exists to allow PC devs to make easier ports to 360 (not the other way around as it's usually touted).  They want to get you caught in the Microsoft way of doing things so eventually when you want to get big (and by big I mean go console) you'll have already been trained to use the 360 devkit indirectly.

[DX7.EP]

I dunno, say all you want but F2P games like MapleStory ARE casual.  They're only hardcore when you seriously start investing time and money into them.

Indeed, it depends on player.

Farmville requires far more than just 10-15 minutes of your time, same with Peggle.  The whole concept of "casual" is they're easy for a non-gamer to get into and are marketed completely differently.

Well, that's at least what I've been hearing from Zynga and its lackeys. Of course, many players play way more than that.

Why is this strange?  Why support your direct competitor?  Microsoft makes far more money from software licensing on the 360 than any goodwill they'd earn supporting the PC platform.  Remember you don't need a fancy devkit and tens of thousands of dollars in licensing fees to make a PC game.  GFWL only exists to allow PC devs to make easier ports to 360 (not the other way around as it's usually touted).

Does MSFT even have a direct competitor in terms of PC gaming? I don't remember there being one (though Mac has gained significant ground through Steam and the Mac App Store and yet is stuck on OpenGL 2.1)

What I am particularly disliking about the MSFT position is that even though it has two market areas (360 and PC) that have many API similarities, it has adopted two very different strategies:
 - 360: Traditional gamers apply within, as well as gimmicky stuff (Kinect). We love to control all parts of the game, notably DLC releases, bribery for optimization (notable in Call of Duty games), and what can go in an update before we put in our extra loyalty fees.
 - PC (traditional): Sure it has a similar work layout to 360, but PC gamers are few and far between. Due to all this freaking piracy (these arguments hold no weight IMO) we must stem our supposed losses and use DirectX here as a tech demo for the next Xbox rendering system with a minimum of internal optimization.
 - PC (causal): They have POS Intel graphics, so these hardcore games won't even run on them! On the other hand...they LOVE Farmville like there's no tomorrow, and the casual audience on the 360 may be another sale.

BTW I think you mixed up GFWL with XNA, and even then it's rather cheap (about the same price as Apple's Developer Programs). But the idea of a consistent code base and APIs between Windows, 360, and Windows Phone is still there.

[helvetica]

XNA is a wholly different attack angle, to give an easy to access toolkit for indy devs to start pushing towards 360.  Microsoft isn't dumb like Sony/Nintendo, they realize a vibrant indy community will keep them relevant a lot longer than hoarding console exclusives, as well as build them a talent pool for them to draw from for new projects.

GFWL is exclusively marketed to the big guys, Ubisoft/EA/etc, as a solution for matchmaking and standardized crossplatform support.  It's to keep them invested in the 360 platform while giving them an out if they're making PC games/ports.  The end result is homogenizing PC games so they're more "console friendly" and thus increasing the pool of games Microsoft can pull from for 360 titles.  I mean, if you spent all this time and effort building a game on GFWL (which mandates things such as 360 controller support), how much harder would it be to port to the 360 and have 10 times the potential playerbase?

[DX7.EP]

Whoops, I guess I didn't catch you exactly the first time.

Indeed, XNA is one of the better aspects of MSFT's console strategy, even though Steam is considered far more convenient (see Super Meat Boy, Shank).

As for GFWL, I have to agree with the console friendliness of games nowadays (WHAT developer console on most of these?) But the funnier issue is that a good number of the big names (Rockstar and Capcom, I am especially looking at you) may create a game with the GFWL/XBL framework (and probably a PC-based fork for development and testing) but release the final game as 360-only while the PC version, if there even IS one, faces delays and questionable optimization (partly by shoddy jobs (GTA IV) and at other times thanks to MSFT's 'optimize for 360' bribery (Black Ops)).

MSFT might as well increase its profit revenues and care a little more about PC by requiring its members who are on both 360 and GFWL to also create PC ports of new releases within due course. Granted, they will probably choke the hell out of us with GFWL's POS interface, but the companies then can at least have some loyalty from the PC gaming camp.

[hyorinryu]

Eh...things in the video were okay, but then I saw Bing...

[Paper Conan]

I cannot believe microsoft expressed everything I hate about them in just one video.
I don't think I can live in this world anymore.
 :colonveeplusalpha:

[Mayson]

Eh...things in the video were okay, but then I saw Bing...

Hehe, I know what you're talking about. You can Bing turn off (at the moment), though...

I cannot believe microsoft expressed everything I hate about them in just one video.
I don't think I can live in this world anymore.
 :colonveeplusalpha:

Don't kill yourself, kill Microsoft.

But seriously, my main fear is that this program will be mandatory somehow (just like the customer needed to install the Windows Gaming service and get an account to play GTA IV online).

[Wisp]

You would be wrong at that

Probably, but that's my opinon, since MMOs are 99.9% of what I play on PCs, the other 0.1% is browser-based games and other stuff. And then there's surfing the Internet, posting on forums, etc.

PC gaming isn't all MMOs or social games

True.

Btw, I never really understood what's so fun about Farmville. I made a Facebook account a few years ago, tried it, and got bored within a few days. Recently, I went back to try Farmville again, but my Facebook account got banned for some reason.

Also, I like Google's search engine more than Bing :V