Author Topic: This is the 9th thread dedicated to the recording of failures at playing Touhou.  (Read 158321 times)

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #120 on: October 22, 2010, 01:26:54 PM »
Didn't hear of the new rule. Sorry.

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #121 on: October 22, 2010, 01:37:57 PM »
Yeah, I understand. It's not like Rules are posted on the Front Page, in their very own board or anything.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #122 on: October 22, 2010, 04:08:24 PM »
I hate losing lives to a Stage 3 boss who's tougher than any boss in MoF (not in a fun way naturally). And a Stage 2 boss whose first spellcard is utter bullshit. Or how about a Stage 5 boss that uses lasers? And that's my favorite boss in that game? Ouch. And then a final boss that i cannot do well at unless i get lucky. And she isn't fun to me. Just annoying because of all deaths feeling cheap.

If i'm to get good at this game it will take much more memorization and dedication than i've given it.
Seeing all these "I hate losing lives, I hate memorization, I hate everything that are beyond my skill level" from a shmup player is endlessly amusing.
I was glad ZUN made UFO the game as it is, and GFW even harder than UFO so that I don't have to stay on the same 'ol difficulty forever.

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #123 on: October 22, 2010, 04:24:47 PM »
Yeah, I understand. It's not like Rules are posted on the Front Page, in their very own board or anything.

Well, i haven't been on the Front Page for days. My laptop have been turned on or in stand by all the time and the only board i have checked is Help Me Eirin. But i get the rule. I'll follow it. Sorry that i missed it okay?

Seeing all these "I hate losing lives, I hate memorization, I hate everything that are beyond my skill level" from a shmup player is endlessly amusing.
I was glad ZUN made UFO the game as it is, and GFW even harder than UFO so that I don't have to stay on the same 'ol difficulty forever.


Good. Then i at least don't have to fear being labelled as unfunny.  :V Seriously though. Its not that i hate everything that's beyond my skill level. I don't hate Catwalk, Scarlet Gensokyo or even the books of EoSD Stage 4. I want to improve my game at UFO which is why i keep playing the damn thing and when i have had enough of grinding the same boring stages again and again i come here to get some frustrations out in an appropriate board. Is that really so laughable?

Also, i got into shmups because it was fun flying around and dodge things but i never found it that amusing to grind something just to improve. I like games that challenge me enough that i don't get bored but not so much that i get irritated by it. UFO... has Hard mode that's too easy and Lunatic mode that's too hard for me atm.

And that's a little annoying considering the amount of ass i kick in the other games. But really. The problems isn't really necessarily with Ichirin or Byakuren etc. Its because the stages are probably the worst ever. Except Stage 4 and 3. Yes. Stage 3. I don't hate it any longer. Upon learning how to do things it is the second stage in the game that actually contains gameplay. Stage 5 is mechanic route. Stage 1 is easy and mechanic route. Stage 2 is mechanic route. Stage 6 is mechanic route. That makes me bored and that's why practicing bosses is such a chore.

That's why i'm complaining Formless.

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #124 on: October 22, 2010, 04:52:03 PM »
That makes me bored and that's why practicing bosses is such a chore.
Well, it's a fact of practicing bosses. Stages of other games aren't that much more interesting imo.
I mean, to practice Scarlet Gensokyo or VoWG, you have to go through the whole ordeal of stage and other spells.
It's not like MoF has spell practice or anything like that. UFO isn't that much different.

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #125 on: October 22, 2010, 04:56:42 PM »
That's why i'm complaining Formless.

Again, save replays of failures and watch them. Look for what you did wrong. You will save a tremendous amount of time; certainly more than you would doing the same thing over and over again, considering you're not learning that way and find it a "chore".

Barring that, you could ... stop playing games that frustrate you? It's not like you're working for ZUN or something. No one is making you play them.

In any event, it seems your entire complaint basically boils down to "UFO is too hard for me, personally, and therefore it is a bad game and I'm going to keep complaining about it." You know what I do with games that are too hard for me, with games whose mechanics I don't enjoy? I don't play them. There, problem solved.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 05:14:04 PM by Tsukiko »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #126 on: October 22, 2010, 05:23:19 PM »
I want to improve my game at UFO which is why i keep playing the damn thing and when i have had enough of grinding the same boring stages again and again i come here to get some frustrations out in an appropriate board. Is that really so laughable?

So basically you want to become better at a game you hate? Seems like a great idea.
"First of all, for those who've cleared the game, please try playing for more points." - ZUN

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #127 on: October 22, 2010, 05:27:16 PM »
I won't improve much that way. I will try and take your advice to heart. I will say this: My complaint with UFO isn't that its too hard for me. Its that practicing it is tedious because 4 of the stages are bad imo.

So basically you want to become better at a game you hate? Seems like a great idea.

What other direction can i take with Touhou?

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #128 on: October 22, 2010, 05:33:09 PM »
I won't improve much that way. I will try and take your advice to heart. I will say this: My complaint with UFO isn't that its too hard for me. Its that practicing it is tedious because 4 of the stages are bad imo.

How do you know you won't improve that way? You haven't even tried it. Watching where you failed and studying what you did wrong is one of the best ways to learn anything.

And if four of the stages are "bad", well, don't play it? It seems like you just enjoy bitching for the sake of bitching. I'm trying to help you out here, but honestly, if you really do not enjoy the game, don't play it.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #129 on: October 22, 2010, 05:38:47 PM »
What other direction can i take with Touhou?

The one that's already been told to you by many other people, try to get better at something you actually like.

E: It's also really hard to improve at anything you don't enjoy doing. Really, this should be common sense.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 05:45:12 PM by Erppo »
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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #130 on: October 22, 2010, 06:20:47 PM »
I enjoy Touhou. I really do.
I just hate dying.

Like, repeatedly.

To stage 5.


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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #131 on: October 22, 2010, 06:21:54 PM »
I never seem to be able to capture Utsuho's 2nd Spell Card; stupid Flare. Today I managed to capture it and I so thought I could finally get through the whole game without losing a life...

Until I stupidly throw it away on her 4th normal attack... TWICE!

All cards captured... two lives lost on that one attack IN THE WHOLE RUN!!!! I RAGED AND STILL AM! ?________?

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #132 on: October 22, 2010, 06:26:39 PM »
If he's like me, it's not so much the game he hates but a few things in the game.

List of stuff I've bitched about before and still agree with.

Parasol Star Memories- Memorize what to do for every single possible randomized movement pattern Kogasa can pick. If you're lucky it can be trivial, but that's rare. Forget that, I'm just bombing it.

Stage 3- total memorization fest, often run into fairies on the circling if I'm not using ReimuB

King Kraken Strike- vision obscuring

Bullets from Sinkable Vortex going into the third noncard

memorization reliant cards in general(this one applies for all games)

Stage memorization can range from okay to terrible: See UFO Stage 3 or first half of Stage 5 for ones I would complain about, though I'm consistent at first half of stage 5. Most other stages aren't too bad.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 06:28:47 PM by Phoenixma »

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #133 on: October 22, 2010, 07:24:45 PM »
[Accusing UFO of being memorization heavy is] pretty much just an excuse so people don't have to say 'holy shit this game is really hard, I have to practice it a lot to be good at it'. It is damn hard, but it's one of the least memo-heavy games in the series for sure, maybe tied with EoSD. In exchange for the UFO chasing you have a huge amount of fuck-up room, so even if your route isn't optimal you can still clear it if you're putting in the effort.

Quoting for posterity.

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #134 on: October 22, 2010, 08:54:30 PM »
Seeing all these "I hate losing lives, I hate memorization, I hate everything that are beyond my skill level" from a shmup player is endlessly amusing.
I was glad ZUN made UFO the game as it is, and GFW even harder than UFO so that I don't have to stay on the same 'ol difficulty forever.

I too enjoy the direction ZUN takes with the series, as well as the rising difficulty in general, but since when is GFW harder than UFO? ??? You get lives like candy in that game.

Speaking of, I 1cc'd B1 and C2 for fun last night, and for B1 my score was about 28 million :fail: I don't even care about score in most games, but in a game where a very large percentage of score is lives remaining, it stings a little. :<
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #135 on: October 22, 2010, 09:52:16 PM »
I too enjoy the direction ZUN takes with the series, as well as the rising difficulty in general, but since when is GFW harder than UFO? ??? You get lives like candy in that game.

GFW is a shit load harder than UFO, in terms of dodging. The game is a cakewalk to beat, mostly because of the gross amount of lives as well as the game's short duration, but the dodging within the game is far and beyond what has been seen in previous games. Hopefully this continues with 東方13.

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #136 on: October 22, 2010, 10:22:06 PM »
I'm pretty sure some of GFW's bullet patterns were designed specifically so the freeze mechanic would have actual merit. Never mind that, as you better players have done, such patterns can be tackled normally anyway. But I doubt we'll see a standard Touhou shooter have most of its danmaku be at GFW's dodging level (at least, not for a while).
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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #137 on: October 22, 2010, 10:47:51 PM »
GFW is a shit load harder than UFO, in terms of dodging. The game is a cakewalk to beat, mostly because of the gross amount of lives as well as the game's short duration, but the dodging within the game is far and beyond what has been seen in previous games. Hopefully this continues with 東方13.

You are crazy. But really, i enjoy the patterns in GFW far more than those in UFO because they actually feel like they are raw difficulty instead of just a bunch of failed concepts. As i see it naturally.

How do you know you won't improve that way? You haven't even tried it. Watching where you failed and studying what you did wrong is one of the best ways to learn anything.

And if four of the stages are "bad", well, don't play it? It seems like you just enjoy bitching for the sake of bitching. I'm trying to help you out here, but honestly, if you really do not enjoy the game, don't play it.

I was talking about not playing the game. Not about watching replays.
As for stages I think they are bad because those stages are pretty much routine. How can that not be bad? And that is certainly an issue with the older Touhou games too. Not just UFO.


The one that's already been told to you by many other people, try to get better at something you actually like.

E: It's also really hard to improve at anything you don't enjoy doing. Really, this should be common sense.

Improve on MoF? Pretty much impossible. The others? I just don't know what to do with them.

If he's like me, it's not so much the game he hates but a few things in the game.

List of stuff I've bitched about before and still agree with.

Parasol Star Memories-
Stage 3-
King Kraken Strike- vision obscuring
Bullets from Sinkable Vortex going into the third noncard
memorization reliant cards in general(this one applies for all games)
Stage memorization can range from okay to terrible: See UFO Stage 3 or first half of Stage 5 for ones I would complain about, though I'm consistent at first half of stage 5. Most other stages aren't too bad.

PSM and KKS can take it hard. I hate those buggers too. Stage 3 though i find to be one of the decent levels of UFO. There is actually dodging involved and whatever requries memorization i have memorized now. And it is actually as Jaimers told me. Its not that memorization dependant.

Stage 5 though doesn't have a tiny bit of non-memo gameplay before the final spam which the only fun part of it. And i find that to be a problem because i want to play the boss but i hate having to go through that stage every time.

Stage 6 I find dreadfully boring. The music is the worst yet and the gameplay is fucking Space Invaders.

Stage 2 = Boring. Stage 1 = Decent, easy but the boss doesn't require any practice so its not a problem.

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #138 on: October 22, 2010, 10:56:08 PM »
You know what? I give up. You really do just like to bitch and moan.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #139 on: October 22, 2010, 11:19:20 PM »
You know what? I give up. You really do just like to bitch and moan.
Quote from: Topic
Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
:getdown:

Tengukami

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #140 on: October 22, 2010, 11:21:36 PM »
:getdown:

Have you been following the discussion so far? If not, I'd recommend scrolling back a few pages to see what brought us to this point.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #141 on: October 22, 2010, 11:24:44 PM »
Have you been following the discussion so far? If not, I'd recommend scrolling back a few pages to see what brought us to this point.
I've been following it since page 1.  I know it gets fucking annoying after a while, but I was assuming that this thread was the only way they could vent their frustrations.

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #142 on: October 22, 2010, 11:28:15 PM »
There's a difference between venting frustrations with this stage or that boss, and what happened three pages ago, i.e., some ridiculous trolling leading to someone getting probated and someone else making some very broad and general claims about an entire game in general that have no basis in reality. Cue others offering help, and more of the same. That's the difference.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #143 on: October 22, 2010, 11:33:22 PM »
There's a difference between venting frustrations with this stage or that boss, and what happened three pages ago, i.e., some ridiculous trolling leading to someone getting probated and someone else making some very broad and general claims about an entire game in general that have no basis in reality. Cue others offering help, and more of the same. That's the difference.
It's amusing how certain people completely reject any offers for help and continue to complain about something.  I'm not sure if they are just stubborn or just borderline trolling.


On topic:  It's extremely agitating to have a UFO change color right as you collect it.  I ended up getting 3 rainbow UFO chains because of that.

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #144 on: October 23, 2010, 12:11:14 AM »
Improve on MoF? Pretty much impossible. The others? I just don't know what to do with them.

Score running ?

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #145 on: October 23, 2010, 12:17:08 AM »
Mountain of Faith is pretty up there for me, too. But I still like the team playing, and the fork in the story. What still gets me is VoWG. I've only beaten it using Reimu B, on Easy. Don't want to try the Mairsa B Experience. Apparently Purvis had a great run with Marisa C. Maybe I ought to try that.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #146 on: October 23, 2010, 12:17:44 AM »
It's pretty much just an excuse so people don't have to say 'holy shit this game is really hard, I have to practice it a lot to be good at it'. It is damn hard, but it's one of the least memo-heavy games in the series for sure, maybe tied with EoSD. In exchange for the UFO chasing you have a huge amount of fuck-up room, so even if your route isn't optimal you can still clear it if you're putting in the effort.

Quote
but it's one of the least memo-heavy games in the series for sure

can't really comment, haven't put much effort on UFO.. well, beca-

Quote
maybe tied with EoSD.

AGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGAHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAHGHAGAHGAHGAHGAHGHA
*the simple mention of EoSD makes my sensors go berserk and with a Terminator-like efficiency, I bite Remilia's neck out, ignoring clipdeaths, confuse hitboxes, and then dying from all those restarts.. from some 3 or 4 days spent to clear EoSD on Lunatic DURING SOTW'S VARTH WEEK. While a friend of mine attempted to beat me by reaching DDP's second loop before I 1cc EoSD.*

If you readers consider that I'm too greedy to not bother about missed scoring potential in most shmups (save some few like Battle Mania Daiginjou), playing for survival isn't interesting enough. (read again, I get bothered all the time with missed scoring potential and restart a lot due to that)

So, I try to enjoy the scoring mechanics. But I dislike the grazing system, even in the Seihou series (save for Kioh Gyoku, in which it's not a main source of points iirc). My point is, for a lot of shmups, what you have to do in order to score is easily understandable, in terms of strategy. Let's say, in Dimahoo, one skilled enough player may try to not get the secret item from the first boss' head, but instead choosing to get an unique set item to complete that item's set earlier and then gain the missed secret item later with a better multiplier later. Easy enough to understand, though not as easy to actually perform. There are also lots of ways you can reach such a goal, too. But with most Touhou games, there are a lot of "checkpoints" you must follow (when random bullets aren't involved), there's no definite way to know if you're really taking the most from your runs (someone discovers that, for example, activating borders at some place will lead to a better score with less effort.. then, those who worked harder wouldn't have any way to know their gameplan without trial and error. Even watching a replay isn't helpful enough, because there are tons of little checkpoints, based on enemy bullet paths). It may be for this reason, that there are guides explaining how to score in the Touhou games (once more, save for PoFV), but not explaining what are the optimal routes and why. I have a feeling that the games don't reward my efforts (or, I just dislike graze more than most people here.. plus I have a really bad memorization, due to the belief that understanding > memorizing.), so I feel cheated if I see someone else score better with less effort (or with just a bit of memorization. Seriously, I don't want to keep a bgm's section in mind to prepare myself for x enemy/enemies in anticipation. That's distracting for me, more distracting than flying UFO tokens will ever be, at least for non-colorblind people).

Also, did I say that losing a life while trying to graze, and restarting due to this, and repeating this pattern, is frustrating? (even if the games didn't have point-blank grazing)
Or maybe I'm really underestimating the graze hitbox (so I have a worse expectation of the effort needed for grazing), or overestimating it (and getting frustrated due to the unrewarded effort).
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How much time do you guys think it will take for HM to be translated? Besides everyone's story modes and the whole menus, there's also the fact that the way HM's programmed is different from all other games. I bet it'll take two months.

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #147 on: October 23, 2010, 12:33:18 AM »
Score running ?

Touhou doesn't have good score systems imo but thanks for your suggestion anyway.

EDIT: Just in case anybody decides to reply to my recent posts in this thread. I won't respond any longer. Obviously my form of argumentation doesn't work so its completely pointless for me.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 12:51:51 AM by Super Zengeku »

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Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #148 on: October 23, 2010, 12:57:51 AM »
Why is GFW Hard so surprisedeathy :<

Re: Touhou Whining Thread, Cirno Edition
« Reply #149 on: October 23, 2010, 12:59:20 AM »
Added revenge-bullets maybe? That caught me off guard quite some times.