Suzumiya Haruhi No Yuutsu Mafia: DAY FIVE!

[Pesco]

Zak's answer to me I read as 'Not a FPMH decision'. I had been getting the feeling it was a serious Evict to lynch. However, Bard doesn't seem to care about underlying intentions and only reacts to what is exactly on the surface. This gives Bard consistency and a null read. It would appear to be standard play in punishing Zak for what he did. With scum motivations, it sets up mislynch potential.

When I said Edible Evicted Bard for reactions, I meant how people would react to Edible, not how Bard would react. Coming to where we are, there hasn't been much in the way of opposing wagons. It's either an extremely heavy bus or a town wagon.

Of the people Evicting Edible, the least memorable other than myself is Kilga. Kilga's Evict came right after mine with 'I agree' only. Sure the guy doesn't like talking much on D1, but lack of scumhunting is lack of scumhunting.

##Unevict
##Evict Kilga

I would like to trust Kilga in following the town's wishes even if it meant suicide, but there's a possibility that being King may boost the person's role. I'm not taking that risk.

## Unvote
## Vote Rou

Derptastic posting is TownRou

[FinnKaenbyou]

Evict votes are meaningless in terms of game rules.  They obviously have impact in terms of who we decide the King will kill, but this is why we can have more than one - see Pesco's use of "exile", etc.  I explained this to Rou already, Kilga.  Why stick to rules that don't apply to us, when there are more flexible solutions?

Flexible <> Better. Votes have always worked, and there's no need to reinvent the wheel here.

I am Haruhi Suzumiya, Townie Dreaming God.

I can prove this claim beyond a shadow of a doubt.  The nature of the game permits me to do so.

You say this, and then immediately do nothing to prove your role after hiding behind 'I don't really want to divulge my abilities this early in the game'. Stop saying you can prove your innocence and do it.

Whether Edible's claim is true or not, I'm comfortable enough to switch my eviction to Neitz now.

Which, uh, you proceed not to do. T_T
Also, there is a time and a place for information gathering votes. Post-RVS, when real discussion is meant to begin, is not that time.

Sakana says Kilga wants Edible dead the most. Pesco says Kilga's displayed the least in terms of pushing the Edible case. Personally I'm standing inbetween and saying 'It's Kilga, he doesn't ever say much tbh'.
On that note, question for Pesco: You made a serious vote for Kilga as King here, after Kilga had made his 'sure that's good reasoning' evict vote on Edible. What, then, made you change your mind and decide he was scum?

Coming to where we are, there hasn't been much in the way of opposing wagons. It's either an extremely heavy bus or a town wagon.

Uh, last I checked the Zak wagon was running pretty close alongside it for a good long while.

huh what is due to post sometime soon. Kefit's given a RL explanation, so he gets excused.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Uh, last I checked the Zak wagon was running pretty close alongside it for a good long while.

Exaclty. And that makes me feel as uncomfortable about the Zak wagon as about the Edible wagon.

'It's Kilga, he doesn't ever say much tbh'

It seemed to me that he was often pressing other players to take a stance though.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Exaclty. And that makes me feel as uncomfortable about the Zak wagon as about the Edible wagon.

What do you think a Town-oriented train looks like? I'm not sure if you're looking for some miraculous 'everyone agrees player X is scum' situation here.

It seemed to me that he was often pressing other players to take a stance though.

Which leads to accountability, which leads to people being held to their stances, which means scum have to contribute one way or the other.

[Pesco]

When I voted Kilga, I never gave a reason. In fact, nobody called it other than the mod. Even after that, it drew no real attention. I don't think it's in Kilga to ever trust me so blindly.

Giving Kilga a deciding power seems like easy deferrence because, as I said above, Kilga would obey town because that is procedure. Now if a townie started the ball rolling in scum's favour, they'd pile onto it and go all the way before people noticed. The speed of the King wagon should be noted for this.

[Pesco]

Addend: I don't see Zak's wagon as a competitor because it's been that immemorable.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Addend: I don't see Zak's wagon as a competitor because it's been that immemorable.

What else is going to happen when the man himself doesn't show up to comment?

When I voted Kilga, I never gave a reason. In fact, nobody called it other than the mod. Even after that, it drew no real attention. I don't think it's in Kilga to ever trust me so blindly.

I think you're overvaluing the importance of the King vote. Again, no-one in their right mind would think to go against the majority of Evict votes in selecting a lynch, the exception probably being if said lynch leader was themselves.
No-one paid attention to the King vote because no-one saw a reason to object.

Giving Kilga a deciding power seems like easy deferrence because, as I said above, Kilga would obey town because that is procedure. Now if a townie started the ball rolling in scum's favour, they'd pile onto it and go all the way before people noticed. The speed of the King wagon should be noted for this.

What about the fact that we've got about 15 hours to choose a King?

And on that note, ##Vote: Kilga. Before anything else, I'd have suspected Scum!Kilga would be even less trusting of you for the sake of you being an easy smokescreen regardless of affiliation.

[Kilgamayan]

It seemed to me that he was often pressing other players to take a stance though.

I'm going to chalk this up to you being new. Stances are the major tool with which town as to work, because it's how we judge each other, so of course I want people to take them.

I don't much appreciate Pesco trying to take credit for my reasons for voting Edible and then ignoring that they've morphed over time but Pesco so whatever.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

I'm going to chalk this up to you being new. Stances are the major tool with which town as to work, because it's how we judge each other, so of course I want people to take them.

Oh no, I never questioned the importance of stances.
I just couldn't really see yours, while you pressed others for theirs. I don't say this is neccessarily scummy, but it's not all.
Is it a coincidence that you seemed to especially press on the people who were starting to deviate from the Edible-wagon?

[Kilgamayan]

Sodium was never on the wagon in the first place and I've been pressing him harder than anyone.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Sodium was never on the wagon in the first place and I've been pressing him harder than anyone.

Looking at it again, you certainly called him a 'more pressing case'. I didn't see much coming out of it though, which is of course not your fault, but Sodium's for not answering.

Well, anyway, I have pretty much no good ideas at the moment. With the deadline approaching, I'll try to look over everything again, but don't expect much to come out of it.
Due to time-zones, I'll most likely not be around when the final decisions are made and deadline is hit, so I guess that's pretty much all I have to say for D1.

[WHMZakeri]

Kilga: I might have agreed that his claim wasn't worth jumping over since he did not claim any abilities. The thing is, he did claim an ability - the ability to prove he was town (And specifically Haruhi).

Which, uh, you proceed not to do. T_T

I know I'm not following syntax, but I think it's safe to assume that when I say I want to switch my vote, that means that I want to switch my vote.

Also, Pesco's not reinventing the wheel. He's just trying to come up with a convoluted replacement for the term "FoS". "Voting" for more than one person is not a new thing in mafia, it's just something that this board has dropped out of standard play because people considered the extra "votes" pointless.

I don't see anyone else discussing the new case, which makes me feel impotent. Could people at least describe why they do/don't agree with my position on Neitz?

##Vote: Roukanken

[UncertainJakutten]

Spoiler:

The Sixth "Koyubi de Gyu KINGMAKER" Vote Count

"If your face gets any closer, someone who isn?t supposed to be in this scene is going to come over there and kick your ass!"

1. Jam(0)
2. Nietz (1): Kilgamayan
3. Kefit (1):  Kefit
4. Kilgamayan (5): Edible, Sakana, Nietz, Bardiche, Roukanken
5. Pesco(0)
6. MSB (0)
7. Edible (0)
8. Bardiche (0)
9. huh what (0)
10. Sakana (0)
11. Roukanken (2): Pesco,  Zakeri
12. Zakeri (0)



Not Voting (3): Jam, MSB, huh what
Kilga is at King minus Two


With 12 alive it takes 7 to elect your lord and master (for the day)
Deadline is in ~12 hours at 10 PM EST, Saturday, March 20th

[Pesco]

Rou: When someone doesn't show up, it's because there isn't enough pressure for them to care.

I'm willing to take a bet that if I piss you off enough, you would lynch me in a fit of frustration and rage even if I was not the main choice if you were king.

Kilga's king wagon was getting rolled long before we had 15 hours remaining. I'd say scumKilga would be perfectly happy to let it be set in stone that early.

[Kilgamayan]

The problem I have with Edible's claim is that it's Edible. He has a history of selfish play to the point where he has fake-claimed as town. I take nothing he says at face value, regardless of what I think of his alignment, and his being so ambiguous to this point means I don't trust that he actually has the ability to prove he's town. (I'm willing to believe that no one else is Haruhi, sure, but I'm willing to think UK is any sort of competent GM and therefore assume that player roles have no bearing on alignment, so he could be Haruhi but scum or he could be someone else entirely that was given Haruhi as a safeclaim.)

Now, the problem with THIS is that I'm going to be missing for basically the rest of the day, so even if he produces something I'm willing to believe I won't be around to change my mind. This makes me less inclined to throw my primary deathwish at him, especially given the number of king votes I've received, because I don't know how the rest of the day is going to play out. I have a little more time before I have to shove off to where I'm going, so I'm going to consider some other options, but I need to quickly go through the topic again first. Expect an evict change in my next post.

Spoiler:

You do realize that if day ends without a king choice, it's no lynch, and if day ends without a king making a choice for lynch, it's a no lynch, right? I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, but the 24 hours extra was specifically so you'd have time to elect a king

[Kilgamayan]

Spoiler:

You do realize that if day ends without a king choice, it's no lynch, and if day ends without a king making a choice for lynch, it's a no lynch, right? I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, but the 24 hours extra was specifically so you'd have time to elect a king

This doesn't change my feelings on anything I said, though it means I will throw in ##Unvote, ##Vote: Kilga for a king choice in the interest of helping a decision be made, since my train is the furthest along and I know I'm town. I think this pushes me to K-1 so be careful not to quickhammer before people have had the opportunity to come back and speak their piece.

Now then.

##Unevict: Edible
##Evict: Nietz

I actually buy Zakeri's case on him. I went back and looked at the early Sodium/Nietz interaction and initially assumed it was just a wording thing or something, but Sodium did actually mention Jam's lack of a vote the first time around, and Nietz completely missing that when he switched to Sodium for retconning is bad because Sodium wasn't actually retconning. The reasoning for the Edible vote is pretty terrible too; what is this "Bard's jokes were somewhat inappropriate" stuff? It's like Nietz didn't even bother to read the early Bard/Edible interaction and just threw a blanket statement down based on what had happened since then to make it look like he was paying attention. Edible was the only one to attack Bard's fooling around and his basis for that attack was notably incorrect. Hopping from place to place to finally land on an existing wagon (with a poor reason for doing so, no less) is good enough to make me want to see him off, and the style/content of his posts on the whole also give off an active lurking vibe.

Should there be a mad eviction scramble while I'm out and I get elected, I also would not object to nuking any of Pesco, Sodium, or possibly Jam or Kefit (or Edible if he doesn't shape up). Less inclined to nuke Sakana since his play has been more newb town mistakes than scummy mistakes.

[Sodium]

Edible: Would like proof, etc, because anyone could've really made up a Name and Role Name(tm).

Pesco: Pretty sure no one really cared about your Kilga vote because they either didn't care who the King was, or were already voting Kilga.

Sakana: Not answering what? Kilga has only asked me why I wasn't evicting, and why I haven't posted in a while. Both of which I answered.

Zak: Bad timing and lack of "firmness"(bolded ## catches peoples attention, seriously) is probably why your case on Nietz isn't really being paid attention to. While I still don't like how you've been playing, your latest post is pretty good.
Not all that related, but "bottom of page four" doesn't really help because some people use different number of posts per page than the default. =V Post numbers are better.

Nietz: Gee, posting "Edible is scum and pushed his own wagon" in a roundabout way sure is constructive.   

Whelp, it seems like we probably won't have a majority in terms of evict votes by the end of the day, so the King actually matters more now.
##Vote Roukanken Seems like a good choice. No problems with Kilga either.
##Unevict Zak's latest posts make him look alot better, except for not changing his vote despite saying he would, but we've already went through the whole evict vote argument anyways.
##Evict Nietz I like Zak's case and agree with it(more or less) after going back to read the posts he pointed out, and Nietz's last post really didn't sit well with me. No content, just a light prod to inactive people. Right after a name claim by his target, and into a good portion of the day. It feels like he didn't know what to say about the claim, and was waiting for others to say something about it first.

Sup Kilganinja.

[Nietz]

I'm largely unimpressed by Edibles not-roleclaim. It does nothing to change my stance on him.

And as for Zak's case on me, I can only see it as picking someone and purposely mapping all their actions as having scum intent.
Of course, if he's indeed scum and knows Edible will flip town, it's a good way of setting up tomorrow's lynch. Which would explain his waiting to see if someone buys it before backing it up with an evict vote himself.

I still have a stronger feeling for Edible, but Zakeri would be acceptable too. Though I don't believe one would be scum if the other is.
If Kilga can't be here for deadline I'd be willing to change to Rou or whoever else. Though as long as he's wont to lynch Edible or Zak its fie either way.

Edit: Oh, Kilga did buy into Zak's. Welp, what I say still stands. 

[Pesco]

Apathy to who one gives the day-ending vig shot to is anti-town.

Nobody else voted for Kilga before I did.

[Sodium]

Pesco: Really? Could've sworn that someone else voted Kilga before you did.

...Well, apparently you did. Votecounts don't lie(usually). Still, people were apathetic for a long time to who becomes King(because of the evict system), except for Kefit and I think someone else. I'm not in the mood of going over the whole topic to see who cared early on.

Nietz: Then why didn't you say so in your post right after Edible's Name and Role Name claim?

[UncertainJakutten]

Spoiler:

The Seventh "Toki No Puzzle KINGMAKER" Vote Count

"Kyon-kun. If I become ruined for marriage, will you take me?"

Mod Note: Damn, missed the page change by 10 pages. Fine, this'll be a courtesy vote count

1. Jam(0)
2. Nietz (0)
3. Kefit (1): Kefit
4. Kilgamayan (6): Edible, Sakana, Nietz, Bardiche, Roukanken, Kilgamayan
5. Pesco(0)
6. MSB (0)
7. Edible (0)
8. Bardiche (0)
9. huh what (0)
10. Sakana (0)
11. Roukanken (3): Pesco, Zakeri, MSB
12. Zakeri (0)



Not Voting (2): Jam, huh what
Kilga is at King minus One


With 12 alive it takes 7 to elect your lord and master (for the day)
Deadline is in ~9 hours at 10 PM EST, Saturday, March 20th

[Edible]

Given I've already called out Nietz for being the worst person on my wagon, I'm more than willing to support his lynch.

Since everyone's asking me to prove my claim...

Tomorrow's daily theme will be centered around The Adventures of Asahina Mikuru, much like today's theme was the chapter "Editor in Chief, straight ahead".

At the beginning of the game, I determined how the game would be played based off certain chapters of the Haruhi novels.  While I can't tell you exactly what the rules will be, there may be enough of a hint in the chapter name to be beneficial.

I have every day's gameplan available, but I'd rather not share the whole thing, given scum may be able to discern something from it as well.  If you off me, let me know and I'll fill everyone in.

I'd still prefer Kilga over Rou for King, but Kilga won't be around at deadline and Rou most likely will be.

[Bardiche]

I don't see how, in any way, Edible's power correlates to "must be town", so the claim is a null tell at best and I am incredibly confused why he thinks this had to be brought out into the open when he could've easily dug himself out of the hole he'd plummeted into.

inb4 roleblock at night and "zoamg edible lied!" I truly and utterly cannot see the benefit of this claim when it wasn't even sure he'd die.

Don't agree with the attack on Nietz regarding ignoring Edible's roleclaim. All Edible did was provide the assertion that he was town (null tell) and that he had a role of indescript power (null tell). I myself ignored it because it didn't tell us anything at all, and as I opened this post with says nothing of alignment.

Do agree with Nietz looking weird. I mentioned it earlier in the day, but I'm still not sure what to think of people who think Edible had something.

Ending the post here before it becomes tl;dr, reading Nietz's posts properly.

Mostly happy with Kilgamayan so far, don't see why people're against him. Happy with Rou, too. Gone over Edible, still mulling if it's just very very bad town play or scummy- inclined to think the former, I just can't imagine scum drawing such heavy attention to themselves.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Sakana: Not answering what? Kilga has only asked me why I wasn't evicting, and why I haven't posted in a while. Both of which I answered.

Since Kilga claimed to have pressed you the most, I thought he must still have had some unanswered questions. Seems he didn't. That makes me wonder where he pressed you more than the others, but whatever. I'll keep it in mind.

Kilga's longer posts finally let me see more of his stance, and I don't find anything wrong with it.
I can see the points on Nietz, though probably not as clearly as many others due to limited experience. However, his case seems to be the one with the most susbtance yet. Which is, for the last time today, more than enough reason to:

#Unevict
#Evict: Nietz

[WHMZakeri]

I'd prefer Rou for King still, but we're getting to the point where preferences  are laid waste in favor of "People who are here now." :ohdear:

And as for Zak's case on me, I can only see it as picking someone and purposely mapping all their actions as having scum intent.

I looked through your posts, and tried mapping it to both scum and town intentions. The way I presented it is the way I think is most likely true. Unless you have another explanation for your actions, you don't have a defense.

[FinnKaenbyou]

I'm here, and if I'm the only person we can get time on I'm willing to accept kinghood. But as a warning I probably won't be around at absolute deadline (loltimezones) so we'd need to make it quick. I'd be around till about 3 hours before deadline at the latest. :<

Because Kilga definitely won't be around at all, ##Unvote, Vote: Rou

The Edible claim is...hm. While it's definitely confirmable the question is whether it's Town. Probably worth giving him a day and seeing how his play ends up unfolding.

Quick Nietz reread gives 'accusing Sodium of not giving reasoning he actually did give', 'at best restating what's already goddamn obvious about Edible', 'accepting that Bard's jokes were inappropriate' (which is as dumb a point as when Kilga made it), and pretty much nothing else. I'd be fine with seeing him go, though I personally would prefer Zak for all the crap he's pulled. Especially his last minute 'You don't have a defense, Nietz!' here - smells slightly of scum gloating. In the end, I'll go with the majority on this one.

[Edible]

I knew I forgot to do something.

##unvote

##vote Roukanken

[Edible]

EBWOP: This unfortunately cuts our discussion time down to Rou's timetable.  Can we get two more people to switch to him?  (This is precisely why I wanted to get the king thing out of the way ;_;)

[FinnKaenbyou]

Kay, so. After a quick read I think Edible's still leading the vote tally, but if there's one good thing about Evict votes it's that the presence of a claim is instant. Unless there's a good amount of people who want to take the risk and lynch him anyway, I'd rather not.

Which more or less brings us down to Zak vs. Nietz. And of those two, Nietz is leading in terms of votes. (I haven't been able to look properly given that the votecount hasn't been updated for a while, but Nietz may be in front of Edible as well.) Save a sudden believable, hueg claim from him, I'll go ahead with choosing Nietz today if there are no objections.

[Bardiche]

Stream-of-thoughts post, so it'll be thoughts while I read. May be disjumbled, I'll try to keep it relevant as much as possible. Intend to focus on Nietz, Zakeri and Edible, but others might slip when relevant.

Like Zakeri a little better than before the reread. Sure, reasons for voting Rou were stupid (benefited town, can be scum trying to look as town with town cred) but actually brings up a good point re: Edible rolefishing/claimfishing.

Nietz lashing at MSB for a terrible Day1 case is a terrible Day1 case. His voting for Edible is after that, for reasons that predate the MSB case; looking what sticks?

Nietz is also weird in his latest post. Waiting for Zak etc, he says, whereas his presence has been very little and his posts very small, focusing on one person and jumping to a new one every time save once.

Regarding Edible, he spends the entire day doing nothing but defending his vote against me, yelling I'm scummy, OMGUSing and trying to misrepresent him and... accusing scum of being the reason he's trained on. Also misguided belief that his vote has momentum? Even though he acknowledges his vote is stupid? And downtalks my reasons for voting him as OMGUS? This accurately sums up how I feel about Edible.

---

TL;DR I'm fine with Nietz going. Flips around a bit to end on a bandwagon, little activity. Zakeri had the opening :psyduck: of "voting Rou for looking townie", but that can be forgiven as Day1.

##UNEVICT: Edible
##EVICT: Nietz

Mind I'm not sure how I feel about Edible as he's extremely headache-worthy in his actions and I can't make sense of them. Will reevaluate this tomorrow.