[Intro/Social]Shanghai's Artist Coalition Headquarters(AKA Alice's Tea Cupboard)

[Infy♫]

bump. wait its not over 14 days yet.

The IRC channel has way too few users... nobody ever talks in there anymore >.>

[flamezero16]

The IRC channel has way too few users... nobody ever talks in there anymore >.>

Haha right xD Last few times ive been on, its just been one other dude online.

[Kyouma]

okay, I did this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eopjBaq9y9g
i wanted to use Flight of the bamboo cutter's main riffs for something never seen before, im latinamerican, so dont expect me to have another kind of music, also, id like some suggestions to make it sound nice next time

[Infy♫]

we don't tag threads anymore?

[Alfred F. Jones]

All right, artists, for those of you who have DeviantArt accounts: it's free Premium Membership day! Go nuts and get journal skins and stuff, kids.

[Savory]

I have noticed quite a few of us have a DeviantArt account. Would it be possible to have a topic where we share them?

[Jana]

A lot of people seem to keep a link in their forum signatures. I don't see why we would need a topic while that is the case.

I'm not one of the mods in charge of this subforum (or a mod at all :V ), but as someone who keeps things tidy, that's my take.

[Tengukami]

Seconding that. It's why we don't have Twitter, YouTube or Steam account threads. Just put it in your sig - if people want to add you, they will.

[Quad City QBs]

Yo, a few things--

1) Can I get a link in the OP?

2) What happened to the art tips/tutorials thread? Thinking of starting a new one. It could have a directory of helpful studies and videos and other resources, and also be a place for critique. I would also give it a witty title like "Art Tips Thread II: Like Hidamari Sketch but Less Glamorous" or "Art Tips Thread II: Border of Life Drawing" or "Art Tips Thread II: Ropes? Where We're Going, We Don't Need Ropes."

3) I kind of want to change my name to Res Ipsayaka Miki, but I like my Madoka avatar too much.

[SuperParadox]

2) What happened to the art tips/tutorials thread? Thinking of starting a new one. It could have a directory of helpful studies and videos and other resources, and also be a place for critique. I would also give it a witty title like "Art Tips Thread II: Like Hidamari Sketch but Less Glamorous" or "Art Tips Thread II: Border of Life Drawing" or "Art Tips Thread II: Ropes? Where We're Going, We Don't Need Ropes."

I was also thinking about the benefits of having these topics not too long ago. It would be great source to have (It should probably  be a  sticky so it doesn't get buried, lost etc. ) I also thought something like a Art-blocked/Inspiration/Motivation topic would be nice y'know for times when artist get stuck in that block or something of the sort and needs a few tips and such.

[DX7.EP]

2) What happened to the art tips/tutorials thread? Thinking of starting a new one. It could have a directory of helpful studies and videos and other resources, and also be a place for critique. I would also give it a witty title like "Art Tips Thread II: Like Hidamari Sketch but Less Glamorous" or "Art Tips Thread II: Border of Life Drawing" or "Art Tips Thread II: Ropes? Where We're Going, We Don't Need Ropes."

Same for the music one, while you're at that. I guess people really don't frequent general advice in either, causing our suggestions to go to specific people's caveats....

[Mеа]

I also thought something like a Art-blocked/Inspiration/Motivation topic would be nice y'know for times when artist get stuck in that block or something of the sort and needs a few tips and such.

Seconding this. Nothing sucks more than an Art block. Maybe somehow we could extend that to Art&Music block topic. Maybe as a kind of idea dump, not as like random fandom ideas, but more like conceptual ideas. I'm looking at powerful words, concepts, moods, themes, etc.
An example of a powerful word/phrase would be 'chromatic asymmetry', which I plan on using for a Shikieiki fanart.
Just to throw some more out there, other good art block-breaking words I came up with are 'psycho-acoustics', and 'neapolitan'

[Teewee]

I have a question. What does unlocking creativity have to do with learning to draw? I mean, I don't see how I can use this "creativity" that many websites talk about to make my drawings look the way I want them to.

[HakureiSM]

Uh, creativity is what allows to know what to draw to begin with. Being able to imagine and create the details in your head.

[Teewee]

Huh. Well, I have a hard time getting anything concrete in my head when I draw. I just have a vague idea and draw from that.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

I see no contradiction here.

[Teewee]

Um, that's a rude way to say that what I said contradicted itself (which it didn't) :I It's not like I have a clear or even fuzzy picture in my head when I draw (which would be, as I said, something concrete); just an idea I can only describe in words. When I finished this picture, I didn't really have anything like that image in my head. Just the words "smiling girl on a cliff, from which you can see a path, a lake, etc).

[CrowCakes]

@TERMspeon: I don't think anyone could have the product all planned out in their mind. The way you get to the product is where creativity kicks in. You have to find ways to portray that idea you want correctly. It's making stuff up as you go and making them fit in to your compositions.

Is that what you mean?

[Teewee]

I originally asked what kind of "creativity" was necessary to make me draw better, and was answered with "being able to imagine and create details in my head", which means just thinking up the completed picture in my head before drawing. That's what I meant.

Though what do you mean by finding ways to portray my idea correctly?

[Shmarah]

Creativity isn't so much knowing what to draw as it is... wanting to, I guess. It's the drive. Having ideas, and thinking differently than everyone else.
Creativity doesn't make you draw better, it makes what you draw unique, and individualizing is very important in anything you pursue.

Also, this is completely unrelated and probably not my place, and I might be completely wrong, but... I feel like you're really doubting yourself, TERMspeon. I don't know why, but your words seem to ring with frustration, which can definitely be understood, and you're probably under some unfair amount of pressure. I've definitely had the feeling, when I'm just looking at manga and beautiful art and pose pictures and anatomy books and banging your head wondering, "WTFISDRAWINGIHATEMYSELFICAN'TDOIT"
What really pulled me out of it was finding this girl's blog; you might know her, she worked on Katawa Shoujo and does a lot of Touhou things:
http://raemz.wordpress.com
Seeing masterpieces and high level art only hurts my self esteem. Seeing really bad art teaches me nothing but the wrong things.
However, getting an email every week (I subscribed to her blog) filled with progress sketches and just random scribbly nonsense? It should've been fairly obvious, but knowing that the pros who make incomprehensibly gorgeous art also make rough, crude sketches without detail, without clean professionalism, without caring about what the critics will say:
Without attention to "drawing well." Rather, enjoying the feeling of making "art..."
That's what made me let loose, stop caring about what every individual finger on a hand looked like. Somehow that made me love sketching and drawing and myself, however conceited that sounds.
WAN I RAMBLED FOR SO LONG I'M SO SORRY... It's a  wall of condescending text...
I know I sound really demeaning and you might be in a completely different situation that I seem to be imagining so I'm sorry for being assuming. Whatever it may be, please forgive me, and good luck.

[Pirate]

What. I don't get it. I just draw, what's wrong with that?

Creativity is all well enough when you're thinking of a novel idea to draw about, but regardless you're still going to learn how to DRAW in the first place. How do you do that? You study, that's all.

You study anatomy, you study backgrounds, you study color, light, all those tiddly bits that move you toward improving. If you don't study you can have a really good idea, but you can't put it onto paper, and that's pretty worthless.

Oh and pro people? I just try to blatantly rip off be inspired by them. Try out their style or something, the way of colouring, etc. You can't learn much without referencing others.

You don't think "omfg why can't I do this"

you think "Someday I'm going to be able to do this"

[Teewee]

Well, all these definitions of creativity are confusing me :/

@Shmarah: Well, how would I get that "drive", then? And yeah, I've been dealing with a hell of a lot of frustration (under a horrible situation that I wouldn't wish upon anybody), but that isn't because so many people are better than me at drawing; I'm just nowhere near good enough by my own (reasonably low) standard, because of all the time and effort I put into this. If I spent maybe just one year, I wouldn't be so frustrated (since my progress would be pretty good for just 1 year of time and effort). This is beyond just "slow" progress. It's "32 times slower than a snail" progress. Which isn't much of an exaggeration, if any. If there is a god, then he/she definitely hates me.

Plus, knowing that the pros don't always do amazing work doesn't really help...perhaps its my (actually diagnosed) autism, since I don't get how it's supposed to make me feel better.

Enjoying the feeling of making art? Easier said than done. Despite what my adult peers have been teaching me throughout the many years, I can't "just" make myself do something like this. Maybe there are a set of special psychological tricks out there to make "just doing it" work, but I don't know them, and I sure wouldn't be able to afford them (I'm not that far off from poverty, really).

Oh, and its ok, you didn't sound demeaning. I appreciate that you let out that "rambling", since it gave me a chance to explain myself better. And thanks for the positive wishes....I'd put a smile emoticon here, but right now I'm feeling terrible.



@Heartsriker: Who said that "just drawing" was wrong? It just doesn't help me, specifically (though apparently it works for everyone else). As for studying things, how would I go about it? Theres a reason that when I ask for feedback on my work, I'd rather not be redirected to dry books and theories that I simply can't learn from; I'd rather be shown how to make my drawing work at that particular angle. With good wording and picture edits. I'm able to learn better that way, after observing the corrected versions of my drawings at those different angles, which leads me to make inferences to how to make things look right. It works....I just rarely have people to give me feedback. I think there is another way for me to learn better, but I don't know what it is.

As for thinking something more positive than "omfg why can't I do this", that's also easier said than done. When you're as psychologically f-ed up as I am, simply changing the words you think doesn't really help in the long run. Especially since it feels like I'm lying to myself when I do it, which is a horrible feeling.

Maybe I could learn better from books that aren't so dry (though I am still using those dry books). :/ It worked during the time I spent trying to learn Python (which I've postponed to learn drawing).

[Shmarah]

@Heartsriker:
I think that's actually the goal, being able to just draw. I'm almost a little envious if you've always had that admirable attitude towards art, as it takes a lot of confidence to not bag on yourself so hard that you never improve. Very honest self-critique is the most important thing sometimes, but when I think "goddesses this sucks this sucks" I kind of feel inside that I'm only roadblocking myself...
@TERMspeon
You deserve a big virtual hug, TERMspeon.  :ohdear:
I don't think there's anything more frustrating in the world than the feeling that you were born being physically unable to do something as well as you want to. Being able to critique your self as accurately as possible becomes the first real necessary skill, and improving there first makes improvement elsewhere much faster, I'd think.
?Every artist has thousands of bad drawings in them and the only way to get rid of them is to draw them out.?
― Chuck Jones
I don't quite like quotes except as something to chant to myself on the verge of giving up.
That said, please don't give up, I'll cry! I'll be supporting you, and you'd better be motivated by that! Even if I'm a little forum girl on the other side of the world who doesn't fully understand your situation, it'd better mean something to you. (I hope that sounds as encouraging as I mean it to be, because some encouragement is what you need. "Ganbare!"  )

[Teewee]

Thanks for the support It'd be nice if those encouraging words would really strengthen my resolve to improve, but they don't (my autism makes me a lot less sensitive to other peoples' encouragement, sorry  :ohdear:). But don't get me wrong; I do appreciate that you mean well!

So, the advice you offered me is to critique myself as accurately as possible? If so, what do you mean, and how would I go about doing it?

[Shmarah]

For example, drawing a face, instead of thinking, "This looks bad," instead "This doesn't look right, I should try a slightly different approach." Then, you try something else, and think, "Oh, making this a bit more at an angle makes it look better." Then you try something else, and think, "Ah, putting a line there makes it look worse, I shouldn't do that again."
A lot of people stop themselves at, "This looks bad."
Like one of my teachers used to say, "Practice does not make perfect. If you practice 2+2=6 over and over again without correcting yourself, you're not helping anything. Perfect practice is what makes perfect."
 

[Imosa]

Can someone help me with photobucket? I don't use it but other people do and I'm having a real problem. Take Pasu's picture in this post: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12837.msg870315.html#msg870315
Did Pasu really make a 160 x 49 pixel picture? REALLY? Because I'm almost sure there must be a larger version that I just can't see, and it kinda kills me when I see a picture thumbnail that I like, click on it, and then find photobucket crushing my hopes of seeing a cool picture.

[Jq1790]

Can someone help me with photobucket? I don't use it but other people do and I'm having a real problem. Take Pasu's picture in this post: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12837.msg870315.html#msg870315
Did Pasu really make a 160 x 49 pixel picture? REALLY? Because I'm almost sure there must be a larger version that I just can't see, and it kinda kills me when I see a picture thumbnail that I like, click on it, and then find photobucket crushing my hopes of seeing a cool picture.

What's the problem?  Can't get it to load or something?  You were after the one with the EoSD charas, yes?

In other notes...What ever happened to #Atelier-Magna?  I go there occasionally, but nobody's ever on.  Oce or twice I saw A-F on there, but that's about it.

Any plans for how AAA might get its chat channel moving again?

[pineyappled]

I'd go if there were actually people there, if that means anything.
Pretty sure nobody knows it exists.

[Aoshi-shi]

I'd go if there were actually people there, if that means anything.

As would I. But it's pretty strange that the channel's empty despite the number of artists we have here.

[HakureiSM]

As would I. But it's pretty strange that the channel's empty despite the number of artists we have here.

As is the whole board not getting a lot of attention. Though recently there's been more delicious art and I think traffic is improved too.