Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3

[Pesco]

Oh man, gonna get so owned by Flowing Hellfire :ohdear:

[MysTeariousYukari]

Oh man, gonna get so owned by Flowing Hellfire :ohdear:

FIR Aff at Lv 20-25 should be enough to keep it at sane dmg counts when it's first used by ThatOneBoss

[Pesco]

I lost my cheat tables FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Gonna take a while.

[Axel Ryman]

I'm guessing yours had the stat growths on it and such? I'd give you mine but it's the same as that one I uploaded months ago.

[Pesco]

Items, encounter rate, SKP pool and EXP/SKP gain are the same for everyone. Character info vary from each person's comp.

[Axel Ryman]

Well I don't have the SKP pool or EXP pool but I got just about everything else. I found the old link and its still available for download if you need.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ILDFRGL

[Pesco]

Thanks. It's got everything I'll need to get started on rebuilding my char tables.

Edit: Got my addresses all sorted out. What sort of initial tweaking should the 9 squad get?

[RainfallYoshi]

Well out of the choices...

Wriggle is the most tank like out of the bunch so you might want to emphasize on those for her. Maybe boost her HP as well if possible.

Spoiler:

Mystia

could probably be made into a speedster. She'd probably be akin to Aya in use, though you could also decide to emphasize her status spells.

Cirno is probably best left close to original, her damage and statuses are fairly decent in use. Though she might get really hard to use properly towards late game. You might consider boosting her attack stats a bit when status resistance becomes common among enemies.

Rumia... hmm. Upping her MAG is a bad idea because it would really break the game with her MDEF piercing spells. It might be a good idea to make her more of a magic tank so that she doesn't die quite so often. I could also see her getting more status resists... maybe PAR or SIL?

[Earthsiege]

Just to play devil's advocate, would Rumia really be a gamebreaker just from tweaking her MAG? Considering she's pretty crappy statwise, making her a one-trick glass cannon doesn't seem like it'd be any worse than, say,

Spoiler:

Flan

or

Spoiler:

Eiki

in a normal game.

That said, maybe making her a dedicated magic tank would help the team more overall.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Just to play devil's advocate, would Rumia really be a gamebreaker just from tweaking her MAG? Considering she's pretty crappy statwise, making her a one-trick glass cannon doesn't seem like it'd be any worse than, say,

Spoiler:

Flan

or

Spoiler:

Eiki

in a normal game.

That said, maybe making her a dedicated magic tank would help the team more overall.

This. Rumia suffers from poor MAG, so increasing MAG growth by 1 or maybe even 2 points wouldn't be THAT much of a DiskOneNuke. Of the 9 Squad, she would have to play Healer, so she will need at least 1 extra point to Growth to actually be a capable Healer.

Wriggle could be your ATK-Nuke, since one will almost certainly be needed, so gaining an extra 1 or 2 in her ATK growth will help her nicely. Alternatly, she could be the Speeder, so 1-2 extra in SPD growth instead.

Cirno... Tank? She has a spell for DEF/MND buffing, so making her a bit more Tankish would definately be good. I'm rather certain she was fragile, so she could likly need 2-3 extra growth in DEF and/or MND.

Spoiler:

Mystia

... like Wriggle, she could ATK-Nuke or be the Speeder. Nice thing is, she has pretty decent ATK already, so she wouldn't really need much more, if any. Alternatly, she could Tank, as I think she had decent DEF/MND growths.

[Pesco]

Only 1 or 2 points? I was planning to quarter their levelup ratings so that I can grind the game normally for levels. It's less hack work for me that way. I would still be sadly short on SKP though.

I think Mystia's starting stats are fine as they are. The other 3 could do with more specialisation.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Only 1 or 2 points? I was planning to quarter their levelup ratings so that I can grind the game normally for levels. It's less hack work for me that way. I would still be sadly short on SKP though.

Ok, I didn't know how much 1 or 2 points extra in a growth would boost it in the end, thus I took something small and unlikly to cause a massive difference. Didn't Super-Nuke have something like 22 in ATK Growth?

Also, "quarter their levelup ratings" Like turning a rating of 100 for Level Speed to 25? Wow, that sounds kinda crazy, roughly 4x Leveling Rate :O

[Pesco]

The big deal is that I can only use these 4 for the entire game. There are no silver bullets or backups to swap out. They need to be at least 3 times as strong for typical battle, and maybe 6 times for bosses. But that aside, 9 squad is actually still a fairly good team. We're aiming for full completion of story mode with all recruits, the bonus stars only if it's feasible by the end and none of Plus Disk.

[Garlyle]

The big deal is that I can only use these 4 for the entire game. There are no silver bullets or backups to swap out. They need to be at least 3 times as strong for typical battle, and maybe 6 times for bosses. But that aside, 9 squad is actually still a fairly good team. We're aiming for full completion of story mode with all recruits, the bonus stars only if it's feasible by the end and none of Plus Disk.

Well, not necessarily.  The main thing is that their defenses are pretty terrible (Except Wriggle who's a decent secondary tank) and Rumia can't provide too much healing - that's where the biggest issue would come in.  The best you could do for emergency healing is to temporarily reduce your party size and hope for the best.

On the other hand, level up too much, and you'll end up like that level 60-something Alice that solo'd Eientei by simply having too much goddamn defense.

[Pesco]

Their individual growths are as they are for balance reasons and tbh, probably don't need tweaking. I don't think it's such a bad thing that I'll be overlevelling to beat the bosses because the conditions necessitate it. How much overlevelled I will be is what keeps it challenging.

[Serela]

On the other hand, level up too much, and you'll end up like that level 60-something Alice that solo'd Eientei by simply having too much goddamn defense.

That's the thing; because of the way defense works, if you just quarter the level-up rates then everyone will start taking 0 damage from absolutely everything; well, err, apart from the fact that non-Wriggle peeps have terrible defensive stats. Wriggle, though, would be pretty much invincible.

Their individual growths are as they are for balance reasons and tbh, probably don't need tweaking. I don't think it's such a bad thing that I'll be overlevelling to beat the bosses because the conditions necessitate it. How much overlevelled I will be is what keeps it challenging.

So Wriggle being used by basically no one (And she really isn't worth using compared to others), Cirno being a piece of paper with fast SPD/PAR debuffs only (And weak PAR, at that), Rumia not even being VIABLE for using as she's zetta slow, pitiful HP, weak DEF and only decent MND, Moonlight Ray does what damage that everyone else should do on non-nukey multihit attacks, her MND-ignore is pretty damn weak and there's Kaguya instead, Demarcation is nice but it isn't anything to redeem her at ALL... that's balanced?

Not saying you have to tweak stats or anything, but these characters (minus Mystia) really aren't balanced. Cirno is useful for awhile, I do admit that. But Rumia, she's throwing Silent Selenes around for a floor or two, and then she falls behind everyone else so hard and there's no way she could possibly be usable at all when you've got other choices.

[Pesco]

The fact that they are overshadowed by the other characters may be a flavour thing in the game. Rumia isn't supposed to be stronger than Patchy. Cirno is strong for a fairy but not so strong compared to the other characters. The team is only the 4 of them for the whole game. No alternatives and no backups.

With the full cast, SKP has to be shared among around 20 characters. There's no need to invest people that won't be used. Any shortfalls in growth can be bought out when the same resources are shared among 4 only.

[Esoterica]

I'd recommend bumping up their SP and TP significantly as well.  If they'll be the only four in the party, they're going to need it.

[The Greatest Dog]

lol
I used Wriggle to tank 8F's Flowing Hellfire and she survived.
So...
Hmm. She's good enough to tank some stuff.
Also, I have no idea how much health the thing has, either.

[RainfallYoshi]

Out of curiosity, could you perhaps provide a file with a NG+ for this modified team when you get it ready? I'd be really interested in trying this out.

[Pesco]

Within 24 hours probably. I think I'll definitely bump up their TP to 18 base for all of them. And to do the least amount of hacking overall, their levelup rating will be reduced.

[marina2]

Hello, I just started this game 3 days ago. Now, I'm on the third floor. I want to ask something:

- Do characters who's dead or out of TP and return to Gen. still get the EXP from other characters' battle?
- All of my character lv are over 23 right now. Do I stay here to long? or I should  get more level before move on?
- About skill point, at this point the status that each characters use for attacking (ATK and MAG) are at lv20 and other necessary status are around lv 10-15. Is it too low?
- How long will it take to finish the game?

Thank you.

[RainfallYoshi]

Hello, I just started this game 3 days ago. Now, I'm on the third floor. I want to ask something:

- Do characters who's dead or out of TP and return to Gen. still get the EXP from other characters' battle?
- All of my character lv are over 23 right now. Do I stay here to long? or I should  get more level before move on?
- About skill point, at this point the status that each characters use for attacking are at lv20. Is it too low?
- How long will it take to finish the game?

Thank you.

- I don't remember the exact proportions but everyone always gets EXP. Characters that finish a battle (on the front row) get the most, followed by characters in the party not in battle (the back rows). People back at the SDM (people not in the party and people that go back because of no TP or HP) get the least.

- That sounds like a decent level for that floor, but I'm not entirely sure. Someone else might be able to better answer this.

- Sounds pretty good to me, you might want to spend some SKP on HP for everyone as well, a few levels of HP is always beneficial, no matter what character it is.

- Expect the main game (Floors 1-20) to take quite a long while. This is definitely not a game you will finish in a matter of days unless you are really, really dedicated to it. The post game (Floors 21-30), I'm not really sure about since I've never actually gotten there.

[Esoterica]

Hello, I just started this game 3 days ago. Now, I'm on the third floor. I want to ask something:

- Do characters who's dead or out of TP and return to Gen. still get the EXP from other characters' battle?
- All of my character lv are over 23 right now. Do I stay here to long? or I should  get more level before move on?
- About skill point, at this point the status that each characters use for attacking (ATK and MAG) are at lv20 and other necessary status are around lv 10-15. Is it too low?
- How long will it take to finish the game?

Thank you.

- Prism kind of said what I'd already say in response to this one.  I want to say it's something like 100/90/80 in terms of percentages since my never-used characters are only behind by a couple levels (if behind at all), but I really don't remember either.
- You're actually overleveled by a slight bit.  High enough to take on 5F anyway.
- Sounds good to me.  Maybe bump up HP/SP to the same levels as atk/mag.
- I'm on 18F with 40 hours in, but I'd say actual playtime's been 35 hours or so since I'm prone to leaving the game running while I do other things.  Though, I also explored every floor and raged a lot at 7F's teleporter puzzle instead of looking up a guide first thing, so there's definitely room to shave time off.

[yoshicookiezeus]

So I have just started to get back into this game again. What would be a recommended level for taking on the first of the F30 bosses? The members of my current party all have levels around 300-350.

Also managed to defeat

Spoiler:

Youmu v3

for the first time. It was kind of close at the end, with my only two remaining party members being

Spoiler:

Tenshi

and

Spoiler:

Kaguya

and the former just having run out of SP for her self-buff, but I got off a final

Spoiler:

Hourai Barrage

which apparently was enough.

[Garlyle]

So I have just started to get back into this game again. What would be a recommended level for taking on the first of the F30 bosses? The members of my current party all have levels around 300-350.

Also managed to defeat

Spoiler:

Youmu v3

for the first time. It was kind of close at the end, with my only two remaining party members being

Spoiler:

Tenshi

and

Spoiler:

Kaguya

and the former just having run out of SP for her self-buff, but I got off a final

Spoiler:

Hourai Barrage

which apparently was enough.

I believe it's 300-350 for one, 400-450 for the second, and ~600 for the last one.

[Pesco]

9 squad hacked save. All TP at 18 and level up rating reduced to 25%. The high exp value was just me getting a reference to start building my char cheat tables.

Soon I will begin.

[RainfallYoshi]

You are the awesome Pesco.  :V

It should be fun taking out all these powerful beings of Gensokyo with Team 9. Bahaha.

[The Greatest Dog]

9 squad hacked save. All TP at 18 and level up rating reduced to 25%. The high exp value was just me getting a reference to start building my char cheat tables.

Soon I will begin.

Ha ha, I accidentally ran into Chen with this file and...
Team 9 dominated her.

[marina2]

Can someone tell me or PM me about "Cheat engine" that can give you a skill point?

I start to get bored of running around - -''

Oh and thank you for answering my question before.