Author Topic: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread  (Read 148823 times)

Zengar Zombolt

  • Space-Time Tuning Circle - Wd/Fr
  • Green-Red Divine Clock
Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2009, 08:08:25 PM »

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2009, 08:30:12 PM »
It's here.


I'll be back in a while.

Damnit, I still haven't even ordered mine. Imma so kill my brother for making me broke atm.

Matsuri

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2009, 08:36:29 PM »
Okay, so

that was pretty much the best thing ever

too bad the controller here at my mom's house is shit though

I am so going to my dad's right now to get my stuff

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2009, 08:55:15 PM »
Let me know what you think of playing Futari on a game pad.

Bananamatic

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2009, 09:20:58 PM »
How many extends does Futari give?

Matsuri

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2009, 09:30:45 PM »
Let me know what you think of playing Futari on a game pad.

It's a pain, but I can deal right now.

How many extends does Futari give?

2 score-based ones, and one in the final stage.

In Novice modes, I hear there are 2 extends in the final stage.

Bananamatic

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2009, 09:36:24 PM »
In Novice modes, I hear there are 2 extends in the final stage.
Novice or Original? I swear that I've seen people with a ton of lives at the final boss on Ultra.

Matsuri

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2009, 09:41:46 PM »
Novice or Original? I swear that I've seen people with a ton of lives at the final boss on Ultra.

Novice Original, Maniac, or Ultra. Novice mode isn't a selectable mode in the same way Original, Maniac, and Ultra modes are-- it's what you'd choose before that.

As for seeing a ton of lives, my guess is that they played with the settings/dip switches so they'd get extends at a fixed interval instead of just the 2 default extends.

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2009, 09:43:37 PM »
I thought it was that the 1-up item gave 2 lives instead of 1. Same for bombs.

But I can't say for sure as I haven't played the game yet. How much ****ing longer must I wait for this to arrive?

And how many lives is the default starting amount?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 09:46:18 PM by Enigma »

Bananamatic

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2009, 09:44:04 PM »
Novice Original, Maniac, or Ultra. Novice mode isn't a selectable mode in the same way Original, Maniac, and Ultra modes are-- it's what you'd choose before that.

As for seeing a ton of lives, my guess is that they played with the settings/dip switches so they'd get extends at a fixed interval instead of just the 2 default extends.
It was in an arcade IIRC.... :V

And how is Novice? I guess that it's new since it's a 360 game and all.

Matsuri

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2009, 09:54:44 PM »
I thought it was that the 1-up item gave 2 lives instead of 1. Same for bombs.

But I can't say for sure as I haven't played the game yet. How much ****ing longer must I wait for this to arrive?

And how many lives is the default starting amount?

I don't know for sure, it could be. As for default starting amount, it's pretty much the same as every shmup out there-- three lives-- your current life, and 2 lives after that.

It was in an arcade IIRC.... :V

And how is Novice? I guess that it's new since it's a 360 game and all.

Yup, must have played with the dip switch settings (read: cheap :P)

As for Novice, I haven't tried it yet, nor have I tried Arrange modes, but I will be trying those very soon.

Bananamatic

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2009, 11:05:56 PM »
Also wondering about some stuff in Dodonpachi.
I've watched Prometheus' 500m run.....why does he use the laser bomb on Hibachi and aim it away from him? So he can still watch the pattern and get back into it easily?
Would it be of any use to a "normal" person? :V

I can reach his final phase in one credit, but the final itself pretty much takes away another one.

moozooh

  • Your grandfather
    • Touhou world record tracker
Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2009, 11:09:23 PM »
I can post my thoughts on Hibachi if you want. Also I'm planning to play through the game with savestates and record a 3-death fight. I've already come very close to that.
<nintendonut888> Mountain of Faith, or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb."

Bananamatic

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2009, 11:16:18 PM »
Post them :V
Maybe I could do a 3 death if Donut's save didn't have only 4 bombs, as I've reached the final with a life and 3 bombs once.

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2009, 11:42:27 PM »
*Looks at achievements list of Mushihimesama Futari that Matsuri posted up in the old thread*

Pick up a power up?
Pick up a max power?
Defeat the 1st stage boss....

They must not give people a lot of credit when they come up with these achievements.

Matsuri

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2009, 12:05:37 AM »
Thoughts:
This game is everything I expected it to be and more. It was worth every penny of the money I spent.

Character shot types:
Normal Reco: Pretty easy to use, a combination of W-Power and S-Power with Formation Options from the original Mushihimesama.

Abnormal Reco: Holy shit. A combination of M-Power and S-Power with some sort of homing options. The rough part is how insanely fast Reco moves while focusing. She moves faster than normal speed!

Normal Palm: Haven't tried him just yet.

Abnormal Palm: Powerful with just the right speed.

Scoring: It's just as intuitive and involved as the original game, without the finger strain and holyshittappingfrequencies. Basically, you bank your counters by collecting normal/green amber point items, then you cash them in for blue ones when there are a lot of bullets on screen. It's really confusing at first, but I'm really liking it.

Music:
As wonderful as you'd expect.
I'll check out the Double Arrange Album tonight. :)

Achievements:
I already have 15 out of 50, according to the list. Some are stupid easy to get, some are a little harder. The rest are... yeah you're going to have to be good to get those. :P
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 12:07:32 AM by Matsuri »

moozooh

  • Your grandfather
    • Touhou world record tracker
Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2009, 12:18:10 AM »
Okay, DDP Hibachi guide v0.1.

First form.

Doable with 2 bombs with an aggressive approach, 3 bombs with a more-or-less completely safe one. Note that by bombs I mean shot bombs, not laser bombs (do NOT use them on the first form).

1. Point-blank his left side. The sweet spot is right under his belly and far enough to the left so that every appendage and "bulb" on the left side located on the level of his belly and below is damaged by your aura. If you're doing this correctly, you'll see all of them blinking red.

2. As soon as the appendage is destroyed move to the symmetric spot on the other side. Move further to the right without changing your vertical position when the bulb right above you starts shooting rotating sprays of bullets, so you could squeeze as much damage as possible into it.

3. Move down but stay directly under the bulb. After a couple seconds it will explode, canceling all bullets on the screen. If you did everything right you would only need to dodge no more than one intersecting grid of bullets. None if you're lucky.

4. Move to the left side and shoot the appendage until it explodes. Shoot the bulb for another 1-2 seconds then try not to harm it at all and aim for the belly. If you're not confident in your dodging abilities during this segment, don't damage the bulb directly; instead, bomb once when the horizontal lines reach you.

5. In a few seconds the second attack cycle will start. The problem with it is that the first wave of bullets is aligned so tight horizontally they're a huge pain to dodge, so one usually has to bomb there. If only the second wave was that bad it would have been possible to do away with a single bomb. So what you need to do is to point-blank the belly, wait until the wave rotates halfways and quickly switch your aim to the remaining bulb on the left. If your timing is right it will explode right as the first wave reaches you, canceling the entire first wave and most of the second.

6. Continue point-blanking the belly until the pattern is repeated, bomb when you run out of vertical room to dodge, try not to move away to the point where you're not hitting the belly anymore.

7. If you did everything right, the next wave of bullets won't reach you, or will make you dodge just a little bit. If you used the optional bomb on step #4 it won't be necessary.

Congratulations, you've beaten the first form with only two bombs spent.

Second form.

Second form has significantly more hitpoints as well as smaller hitbox and higher evasion speed, so you can more-or-less count on seeing every attack sans teh last repeated twice or more depending on your performance.

The attacks have a few important features about them. First, Hibachi is easiest to hit during the idle time before the attacks. You should abuse it as much as possible either by bombing preemptively, or using a laser bomb to time the end of his invulnerability period so you can exploit these segments to the fullest extent. Idle time increases with each attack up to the end of the cycle, where it resets (i.e. 1st to 2nd attack idle time is the shortest while 4th to 1st is the longest). Second, subsequent attack cycles almost always take less time than the initial, so keep this in mind when bombing. Third, all attacks except the fourth rapidly accelerate when Hibachi stops shooting, so keep that in mind and be ready to bomb.

1. Beginning. Stay just a hair below the middle of the screen — Hibachi never visits the bottom half so he can't smash you with his body. Use laser and mimic his movements until you get to about 10-12 hits on the counter, then back down. If you're lucky he will move close to you during this time, allowing your aura to do additional damage, thus shortening his already too long life span.

2. First attack, 2/4 on difficulty scale. Start in the middle and follow the lanes defined by blue needle bullets, while gradually moving to the bottom left corner. The bullets have wider gaps between them in the corners so you have more dodging space. Some salvos can be dodged vertical-only this way. The real danger lies at the end of the pattern when the slowdown disappears, and bullets that you haven't accounted for rush towards your position. It might be wise to bomb here, especially if you have more than one bomb left.

3. Second attack, 3/4 on difficulty scale. There are ways to do it without dying or bombing, and all of them are uncontrollable luck. Basically you have to make Hibachi drop his grenades at the sides of the screen that have scrolling space beyond the borders, and move there and back hoping that they're aligned properly. They most of the time aren't, so go for plan B: start in the center, wait for the initial wave to explode at one of the sides, preferrably the one that has scrolling space beyond, scroll to the end and dodge away from the wall — new bullets will spawn here pretty soon. Using this dodging space, dodge bullets coming from the other side and, when they inevitably corner you, bomb. If you have managed to survive the pattern for about 7-9 seconds (6-7 if you used a bomb at the end of the first attack pattern), one bomb will be enough to outlast this attack entirely, leaving you with at most an easy (comparatively) to dodge residue.

4. Third attack, 2/4 on difficulty scale. While it seems hard at first, it is actually rather calm even compared to the first one: the bullets move slower allowing you more time to find routes between them. On the other hand, I find myself bombing it more often because this attack is very prone at forming horizontally large clumps of bullets which tend to go your way as the corridor formed by the long bullets sharply changes its angle. The only advice here is to use the found routes as soon as possible and stay as close to the center as possible to avoid needless movement and hit Hibachi more often. Avoid being at the very bottom of the screen since you will be locked more often in this case.

5. Fourth attack, 1/4 on difficulty scale. My favorite one: Hibachi moves slowly and tends to stay right above, corridors are wide and bullets are slow. It's pretty intuitive if you take full advantage of the screen height and releasing laser for faster movement speed. Keep in mind that the small bees that get behind you always shoot streams of bullets when they leave the screen. Avoid damaging them with aura since the bullets will spawn just next to you, leaving you no time to dodge properly. This attack usually allows you to deal the most damage to Hibachi so avoid bombing in it for as long as possible, and use laser bomb if needs be: it has shorter duration.

6. Low HP attack, 4/4 on difficulty scale. This attack has up to 50% of luck factor involved depending on your dodging abilities. The lanes have two main properties about them. They can: 1) be contiguous or disconnected (disconnected are better because they allow more dodging space); 2) lead you away from Hibachi (which is most often the case if they're contiguous and you can't "change lanes" in case of emergency). At any rate, try to remain directly beneath Hibachi at all times and dodge to the center rather than to the side. Use laser bomb instead of shot, since it doesn't require releasing shot button and waiting until the shot disconnects. This attack will consume 6-7 bombs at minimum under average conditions, assuming you won't die with bombs in stock.

My estimate for a decent Hibachi fight would be 10–12 bombs/deaths on average, 7–10 with perfect luck.

(I would have added some screenshots, but it's far less tedious and far more graphic to record a video, which I didn't get around to doing yet.)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 01:27:09 AM by moozooh »
<nintendonut888> Mountain of Faith, or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb."

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2009, 01:35:01 AM »
I REALLY wish the power items that drop when you die in DDP wouldn't fly around the screen.... especially during that final boss.

Btw, new high score in DDP: 82,795630
Ship used: C-S
Area: 2-5

Should probably post this up in the shmups forums, I have an SS and everything.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 01:50:18 AM by BoLaD »

moozooh

  • Your grandfather
    • Touhou world record tracker
Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2009, 01:49:39 AM »
You only need to pick up one of them to restore power, although it's of course best to pick up all three so that they wouldn't distract you. Most of the time it's possible to do during the invincibility period, so it's not too much of a concern.
<nintendonut888> Mountain of Faith, or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb."

Matsuri

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2009, 02:18:30 AM »
I REALLY wish the power items that drop when you die in DDP wouldn't fly around the screen.... especially during that final boss.

Uh, pretty much every shmup does that.

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2009, 02:31:00 AM »
I like how Dai Fukkatsu got rid of power ups completely. I'm kind of hoping to see it become a trend.

I need sum' help with Mame.
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2009, 09:54:38 PM »
Okay guys. I've decided that i want to play DDP again. This time, without critizing every aspect of it.

In order to do this however, i need to get savestates to work so i can practice the stages. I tried to play through it just for the lulz. My first credit got me to stage 4. Then a billion credits later i made it to stage 6.

I just can't use that for anything. I need to be able to try and work something out for those stages so i won't have to spam continues like there is no tomorrow.

It would also give me some better chances against those bosses to actually know what they are doing and when they are doing it. Seriously, that S6 boss tore me to pieces.

And the stages are huge clusterfucks constantly pushing me into walls. I can only think of one way to do come around that and that is to learn how to do them by playing them again and again until i can do them.


So please, does anyone around here know how to make savestates work? I know i'm supposed to use Shift+F7 to save and stuff but whenever i name the savestate it comes up with a weird error.

Bananamatic

Re: I need sum' help with Mame.
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2009, 10:01:32 PM »
I'm using MAME32ip99.

To load states, either do it before the game loads or make sure that the savestate is in the folder you've set it to load savestates from(options->directories->state and pick the folder where your saves are placed) and then shift+f7 then press the number of the save it's assigned to.

The stages are almost pure streaming....if I can 1cc it AND loop it, you can too.

There is only one really huge streaming segment and that's st5.
Perfecting it gives you enough hits to loop it.

And use C-shot. Much easier when you are starting out.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 10:04:10 PM by Bananamatic »

Re: I need sum' help with Mame.
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2009, 10:58:17 PM »
We already have a thread for this kind of discussion y'know.

Matsuri

Re: I need sum' help with Mame.
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2009, 11:14:08 PM »
We already have a thread for this kind of discussion y'know.

Yep, merging now.

For future reference, you can just report the thread or pop me a PM and I'll move stuff. :)

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2009, 11:17:45 PM »
Wasn't Zengeku the guy that said that Cave had the "animated bullet sprites" in their games?

moozooh

  • Your grandfather
    • Touhou world record tracker
Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2009, 11:27:32 PM »
Wasn't that Donut? He said they were "twitching around", though, so maybe it's different.
<nintendonut888> Mountain of Faith, or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb."

Bananamatic

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2009, 11:27:58 PM »
Wasn't that Donut?
Make that Hibachi video already.

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2009, 01:50:51 AM »
iirc Kefit mentioned disliking or having problems with animated bullets
neku: now for something important.
Translations.
How much time do you guys think it will take for HM to be translated? Besides everyone's story modes and the whole menus, there's also the fact that the way HM's programmed is different from all other games. I bet it'll take two months.

lusvik: I don't mind about playing HM in japanese. The language of punching other people is international.

Re: Revenge of Shooter Games Thread
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2009, 02:37:50 AM »
Yeah, I also seem to recall it was Kefit refusing to try DoDonPachi (or whatever it was) because of the animated bullets.