The trial of one Nintendonut888 (Serious discussion)

[Kilgamayan]

This thread is to serve as an official public call-out of Donut after IRC drama earlier this afternoon and some lengthy discussion tonight.

Donut, you stand accused of two repeated social conduct offenses. These charges are levied by some staff members, as well as many other forum members that have expressed concerns both in private and in public. People talking to you in private has not worked, so we go the last resort available - public call-out. I am not happy we got to this point, but so it goes.

Your two offenses are as follows.

1) The unwillingness to attempt anything that requires effort on your part to set up. Cited incidents include TSO having to drag you through the process of uploading a video to YouTube with you digging your heels into the ground the entire time, Matsuri's attempt to help you set up MAME ending in him simply giving you everything already set up so you didn't have to lift a finger, and the recent AIM account debacle. You claim you have zero knowledge of how to follow step-by-step instructions. You have demonstrated a lack of desire to even try these things on your own, opting instead to maybe tool around for two minutes before deciding the activity is not worth your time and asking someone else to do everything for you. The aforementioned TSO and Matsuri have both told stories about this attitude. This needs to stop. You are not entitled to someone helping you at every turn if you do not put an honest effort into it yourself. One particular instance of this rampant egotism was on display this afternoon in IRC, where you claimed you should be able to expect people to set up an AIM account for you because you didn't really want to get one in the first place. This segues into the second charge, but I'm going to take a quickie detour first.

If you had no desire to get AIM, you should never have made the commitment in the first place. The instant you opened your mouth and promised that you'd get AIM when Ruro completed StB the onus was on YOU to make sure you got it set up properly. Not your friends. Saying something to the effect of "sure I'll get AIM when this happens" and then saying something to the effect of "okay who's going to set up AIM for me?" after the conditional event happened is a supreme dick move and if anyone actually tolerated it I sympathize with them. That is not how you treat friends.

2) The insatiable desire to be the center of attention. This goes from complaining about/putting down the Touhou accomplishments of others to trying to keep the focus of the various social topics on yourself to complaining about special forum titles until you got your Gensokyo Baker title to trying to hijack the focus of IRC discussions onto yourself to even outright hijacking threads so that they focused on yourself such as what you did in HakureiSM's "1K GET" thread. You are not the most important person on this site and you need to stop acting like you are. Multiple people have complained about your social thread hijacks in particular. This needs to stop immediately. Putting you in the Reply Only usergroup was supposed to give you a clue that you need to be a lot less "me me me me me", as was asking Ruro multiple times) to tell you to cool it, but all any of this led to was you hijacking other threads into bringing the attention onto you instead of you simply making threads about you.

***

The following is a list of actions you are required to take if you wish to have any chance of ever being let out of the Reply Only usergroup you are currently a member of.

- You are to give an honest effort to set things up on your computer in the future. If you need to ask for help, make sure you have exhausted all possible options and be ready to provide a detailed list of what you have already attempted. If you have made an honest effort to do it yourself and shit just isn't working then help will be provided and no one will think less of you for it.
- You are to stop being negative in regards to any Touhou accomplishment that isn't yours. Being negative includes (but is not limited to) bragging about a better accomplishment, whining about how you couldn't do it or generally putting the accomplishment down on the whole. Either congratulate the person or shut the fuck up and move on. I encourage everyone that participates in those threads to start reporting anyone that behaves in this manner, Donut or not.
- You are to stop trying to be the center of attention in social threads. I encourage everyone that reads and partakes in these threads to report your posts if you go back to your attention whoring ways. If there is a conversation taking place, participate in it, and primarily aim to respond to something someone said instead of just jumping in for a "Well this is how I handle it" post before moving on to something else.
- You are to stop trying to be the center of attention on IRC, should Pesco ever deem it prudent to unban you. Again, if there is an existing conversation, join it. Do not start doing your own little thing focused on you in the middle of the current conversation. That is incredibly rude. Asking a quickie self-centered question and then joining in the existing conversation is okay, doing your damned to get everyone to pay attention to you is not.
- You are to stop trying to divert existing threads so that they focus on you.
- You are to stop taking childish measures against people that you feel slight you. Recent examples include pasting your PDF-in-Notepad garbage in Halbarad's PM window, your running around claiming that everyone that marked your UFO Lunatic run for cheese on Gensokyo has not cleared UFO Lunatic themselves (this is patently false, by the way), and you claiming that you were banned from IRC for "refusing to get AIM" (which, again, is patently false). This is immaturity of the highest caliber.
- You are to apologize to TSO for the supreme disrespect you showed her on IRC earlier today. Your efforts in trying to paint TSO as a bad guy and quitting in an attempt to garner sympathy for your cause were absolutely disgusting (and didn't fool anyone anyway).
- You are to give a big huge fucking thank you to Ruro because she's the only reason you got a leash as long as you did. I have already talked with her about this, and I have told her that you have run out of the chances she has granted you. You have no rope left: don't throw her efforts away.

If you make a genuinely committed effort to comply with these instructions and actually follow through, then you will eventually be removed from the Reply Only usergroup (and who knows, you might even get Gensokyo Baker back if we get caught in a cheery mood). If TSO, myself, the rest of staff or even the other forum members see you making zero effort to improve your attitude and behavior, then this may not be the website for you. I can say that I do not probate or ban for anything other than blatant rule violations, but I cannot say the same for TSO, and as she is in charge she is allowed to make whatever call she likes.

The court's floor is now open - people may offer whatever comments they like, and I will be glad to discuss anything that stays within the realm of reasonableness and rationality.

[nintendonut888]

First, thank you for this thread. I have wanted to know exactly what you have wanted from me for a long time.

Second, I am sincerely sorry to TSO for seemingly disrespecting her the way I did. I will not go further into this until my third question is answered.

That third question being: May I openly question or offer explanations for my actions? I feel if I could share my thoughts I can reach a better idea of what to do.

And I have already thanked Ruro for this. I am in her debt.

In any case, I will do my best to follow this and have actually been trying for a while now. Anything else I have to say will await until you give the okay for me to explain myself.

[Pako]

Oh wow Donut, you seriously messed up at this one~

I would have to agree on the part of the "Social threads" I don't think many people enjoy having that many threads centered about you. I think the social threads should be a place where members interact with other members and not "Interact with Donut thread."
The hijacking too can be mildly annoying for me, I tried to change the subject of such a thread a couple of times but I failed miserably.

I do not know what to say about the IRC thing because I was not there at the moment, but Donut you really have to stop thinking you are the best member here.

Also I promise to report Donut posts if they are probably going to hijack the thread~

And Kilga, what would happen if Donut will not change?

[Pesco]

this may not be the <location> for you

In the business world, this is the polite way of saying 'GTFO before we utterly crush you'.

[Menorah Jams, Pham]

I move that after every post in this thread that contains relevant info, there be a doink doink.

[♛ Apher-Forte]

and here I was thinking I am bad or antisocial to avoid the social threads as it reeks of 'donuttopic101' so I guess I wasn't alone. No offense Donut, but really, it wasn't the best behavior to boot, though you were a fun guy because of it in a way but then we all must give way to some others you know.

[Helepolis]

Your honour, I would like to add some of my personal complaint here as well. Not to make his judgement heavier, but more like making him aware that there are more people who have their own opinions regarding this case.

*ahem*

On IRC the users killme2 and Helepolis have multiple times offered their aid in order to achieve High Definition movies on Youtube and various other forms of help regarding software and configuration. However, the guilty had promised and said repeatingly that he would commit and follow our advices in order to achieve the desired result.
Yet time after time he would show on IRC , acting if he suffered from amnesia, still asking the same questions over and over. Here is the evidence of him even posting inside the tutorial thread, made by Drake, where he says "if I got the time I will do this"

Evidence file 42A5: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1260.msg98631#msg98631

Also I would also like to complain that the guilty had insulted many times the great bartender Amakasu Barley Tenji, for that he was weiring an afro and using more beautiful spell cards with better music than his regular 'UFO game'.

Your honour, that is all.

[nintendonut888]

What can I say...? I have a horrible memory for this stuff. It's not as though I purposefully forget this stuff you know Helepolis.

Well, I can say this. I had no idea I was annoying all of you to this extent. I am very aware now that my behavior to this point has been unacceptable and I am doing my best to change. Let me also state that if anyone has ever felt they were offended by something I said (and I know this has happened to multiple people), it has been completely unintentional. It seems I have a terrible way with words that regularly gives people the wrong idea of what I mean.

Lastly, can you believe that I had no idea I was being so egotistical? Until it was blatantly pointed out I really didn't notice. Now I'm ashamed of my actions.

Hell, maybe I'll just take a break from this board for a while and see if I can shape up then. I really don't want to be banned.

[HakureiSM]

So, I'll just say/ask three things:

First, just like A-F, I was kinda wondering if I was doing the right thing by ignoring the social threads because I didn't feel like entering another 20-page Donut thread about absolutely nothing. Seriously, it was boring. I tend to find stupidity, rudeness, or any kind of behaviour that is not cool and/or nice boring. That applies to everything, even stuff like murder. Maybe my concept of boredom and as a consequence my general view of the world(in short "things would be much cooler and less boring if people just behaved properly like racional evolved beings") are weird, but I think they still apply. Seriously Donut, stop it. If you wanted to talk about you, you should've done like Mode, Slaves, etc. and created your own threads. Hey, first thing I found when I opened up Firefox today was "Rock band parties are lame", a nice way of telling something that happened, plus opening up a discussion about Rock Band.

Second, I came upon my name in the offense listing text. About that, I wanna first apologise for that stupid thread, because it was just meant to be a boring joke, which was wrong to start with, and even worse, sounded like I was some brat bragging around about uh.. post count. Letty was quick in locking that thread, and with good reason. It only made me feel bad about myself. Then I'd like to ask what again what was it that Donut said on that thread especifically, because after I started it I realised how lame it was and no longer paid enough attention to it.

And third, I have a complaint about this 'trial' thread here. It's way way way way too formal. Seriously, this is too much. Opressive even. If Donut needs to be punished, then that be done and period. If staff wants to discuss it with everyone else, even better, of course, and that's the way it should be. But seriously, we're all friends, and as long as we don't forget our positions(as in: HakureiSM=regular orange user, pay respect as such; Kilga=Global Mod, pay respect as such), there's no need for all this.
"Donut, you're messing up because of attention whoring, offending people(ry. Stop screwing things up and correct yourself or you'll get your ass probated or worse."
That's enough. No need for all this.

phew, I usually don't write this much.

[nintendonut888]

Believe me people, the days of that Donut are over. I can't exactly go back and change all the time I was attention whoring, so instead please look to now and tell me when I'm still doing it.

Also Hakurei, the fact that I can't make threads anymore makes that prospect rather difficult. >_>

[Pako]

Donut, don't be hard on yourself~

I am sure no one will really hate you for this~
Don't take a break from Motk ;_;

[E-Nazrin]

"Donut, you're messing up because of attention whoring, offending people(ry. Stop screwing things up and correct yourself or you'll get your ass probated or worse."
That's enough. No need for all this.

I've mostly been skimming this thread, I admit, but I'd like to point out that when things like this come naturally, you often need help 1. recognizing it and 2. figuring out what to do to "stop screwing things up."

This is basically why I wanted this to be an open discussion (though I dunno if I really had any effect on that) - so that Donut could get helped, not just punished. Whether it had to go on the forum, I'm not certain, but something like this could use an intervention, couldn't it?

On that note, Donut: I'm open to talking about this stuff if you're worried about it. I'm not much of a conversational expert so I'm not sure how much use I'll be, but it's something.

And yes, gentle reminders and advice are a good route to take from all parties.

[Maid Xan~]

I'd point out that Donut is hardly the only nor the worst attention whore around here. Just my five cents.

[Edible]

"Donut, you're messing up because of attention whoring, offending people(ry. Stop screwing things up and correct yourself or you'll get your ass probated or worse."
That's enough. No need for all this.

I don't think you realize how much of an ass Donut was making of himself yesterday.

[HakureiSM]

I don't think you realize how much of an ass Donut was making of himself yesterday.

Good point. I wasn't there so I won't put my finger there.

Also Donut, past tense.

[Helepolis]

I don't know exactly what happened yesterday on IRC that made the bucket overflow, neverless I noticed all those "donut threads" and actually I maybe posted one or twice in them for something random but aside from that I generally saw donut's posts appear.

Now I personally myself simply evade stuff that is too annoying or marked as "attention whoring". ( Post in this thread before you go to bed, a good example ). Everybody on CPMC is being an attention person from time to time ( even me ). We got something to show, or share or just to act goofy. But there is also common sense and that is general: Things are not funny when overdone. Be it a joke or just a thread or anything.

I guess concluding from Kilga's post Donut simply overdid it repeatingly and thus is being marked for it as it seems he was approached personally about this.

For me it is simple, people who are attention whoring in a negative way simply don't get my respect or help anymore in the future. Ofcourse people remain people and everybody makes mistakes.

That is all.

[HakureiSM]

( Post in this thread before you go to bed, a good example )

Seriously, you think that? Only helps us getting to know each other better, imo.
But everything else said was pretty much correct, but

We got something to show, or share

Not really attention whoring as much as seeking. People need attention, to some point. That other thread with the video of the guy marrying a DS character is proof(we know he screwed up real bad, just an extreme example).
I'm not questioning your opinion here, it's 100% correct, just the use of the word "whoring".

[E-Nazrin]

Let's not get into a mess here about semantics, please.

[Sen]

I feel so out of the loop because I never pay much attention to this forum, but I did notice Donut putting down accomplishments of others in the Touhou Accomplishments thread.

Well, as long as he's resolved to act better, good for him~

[nintendonut888]

About that, none of my "putting down" of other's accomplishments is meant as anything other than friendly teasing. My intent is always to help. Another thing I give off the wrong impression with I guess...

[Alfred F. Jones]

On a related note: Sana, I assume you recall the horrors of trying to help Donut set up HydraIRC. Did he strike you as wanting you to do everything for him? Because that's how it felt to me, and it would be yet another example of the first point Kilga made.

Onto the relevant issues.

If you had no desire to get AIM, you should never have made the commitment in the first place. The instant you opened your mouth and promised that you'd get AIM when Ruro completed StB the onus was on YOU to make sure you got it set up properly. Not your friends. Saying something to the effect of "sure I'll get AIM when this happens" and then saying something to the effect of "okay who's going to set up AIM for me?" after the conditional event happened is a supreme dick move and if anyone actually tolerated it I sympathize with them. That is not how you treat friends.

Relevant part of the IRC sessions mentioned earlier. We'll let Donut speak for himself:

[15:41] <Sana> Then why don't you look up how to do stuff you don't know how to do?
[15:41] <Donut> Because I don't care about learning
[15:42] <Donut> I only got AIM because you all wouldn't stop bitching about it, and the fact that you guys won't even go through the effort of telling me once I finally cave in means I don't give a damn.

Uh, no. You got AIM because that was the condition of your promise to me. It falls on you to complete it. What, my effort in StB has been wasted because you don't feel like doing everything you can to do your part of the promise? I don't mind people mocking my Touhou skills (heck, I like to do it myself), I mind people mocking my Touhou efforts, and it seems that you were saying "You know, Ruro worked her ass off to complete StB, but I don't care. Her efforts are worthless, and not worth the time for me to try and figure out AIM on my own".

Moreover, if you had even read my PMs to you, you would have seen that I never wanted you to get AIM at all. I wanted you to get the account and then use Pidgin (since it's an IM program that doesn't suck), but apparently that was too complex, and it shows that not only do you complain about not having your hand held through an elementary installation process (note: saying "I'm so clueless, I don't understand computer-related things" is attention whoring and a guaranteed way to get no sympathy), it shows that you won't even give the slightest inclination to following laid-out instructions.^*

There are plenty of clueless people (like me, with DaimonTools) around who don't understand computers for their life, but they at least don't attempt to excuse themselves with "I don't care about learning" and then not even try to figure things out for themselves.

Back to my original point: No, you did not "cave in" to any "bitching about it". You were burdened with fulfilling a promise you had made to a friend, and then you decided to shirk it because it wasn't worth the equivalent effort.

You've told me before how to get the Vsync patch, and said that it required moderate effort, but that you had done it. In other words, you care much more about patching a Touhou game than fulfilling a promise to a friend-- or even putting forth any effort to do so.

In other words, that hurt me personally. I post this here publicly, not because I want to embarrass Donut (okay, maybe a little) but because grievances swept under the carpet are annoying. The truth must come to light, and I personally encourage anyone who has received this behaviour from you in the past to also step forth.

Yikes, wall of text. Hope this is the only one I have to make.

_{*If you hadn't managed to piss off people like Halbarad, by the way, he, or people like him who do tech support for a living, might have actually helped you. Guess that raises another point, but other people have already gone into that, so I won't bother.}

[Gpop]

Funny. We were talking about this on Skype yesterday.

[nintendonut888]

Well, update on that. Turns out I had always successfully gotten AIM, I simply didn't know how to know I had done it.

[Sana]

HydraIRC? I vaguely remember, I think. He seemed a little....needy, I guess? But I just figured "eh, it's Donut, he opens pdf's with notepad" and helped anyway. :S

[Nine West]

To be honest, I did notice Donut's attention-grabbing behavior, and how he seems to be clueless of what he's doing. But I'm naturally very tolerant, so it doesn't strike me as much as it does to other people.

That, and I don't go to IRC.

[Kilgamayan]

Donut: Explain away. This topic is open discussion for a reason.

Second, I came upon my name in the offense listing text. About that, I wanna first apologise for that stupid thread, because it was just meant to be a boring joke, which was wrong to start with, and even worse, sounded like I was some brat bragging around about uh.. post count. Letty was quick in locking that thread, and with good reason. It only made me feel bad about myself. Then I'd like to ask what again what was it that Donut said on that thread especifically, because after I started it I realised how lame it was and no longer paid enough attention to it.

Pah. I'm five away from 3K. :V

I'd point out that Donut is hardly the only nor the worst attention whore around here. Just my five cents.

I'd point out that you clearly didn't read the topic if you think attention whoring is the only thing Donut is guilty of. Just my five cents.

[nintendonut888]

Well, my explanation for my behavior in IRC yesterday: Apparently by me quitting when I did I gave the idea that I was trying to make TSO look like the bad guy. My real reason was just as I said: I was in a place I had come to relax, and TSO calling me a douchebag made it no longer relaxing. So I left. I'm sorry if that implied anything otherwise.

[Pesco]

It's not so much the leaving when you did, it's the fact that you came back in and proceeded to act like a douchebag.

[HakureiSM]

Pah. I'm five away from 3K. :V

Oh that. Well if it was just that it would be just the continuation of my own lame topic.
But from what's being said he's gone further than that, but the most I've seen was the social threads and the HD video struggle, and so I'll stop posting here now because I don't have anything else, and therefore no longer the right to post in this thread.

[nintendonut888]

It's not so much the leaving when you did, it's the fact that you came back in and proceeded to act like a douchebag.

I did? I came back afterwards to offer a better explanation to TSO for why I hate looking up information on my own, then left when I noticed she wasn't there. What else did I do?