Author Topic: Spellcard Help Topic  (Read 168148 times)

nintendonut888

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2009, 12:30:31 AM »
As you know, I know nothing about scoring, but I think they bomb it because you get more points for doing that than capturing the card.

And shouldn't you know how it works...? I do say it's rather nasty for a midboss card.
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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2009, 01:13:57 AM »
As you know, I know nothing about scoring, but I think they bomb it because you get more points for doing that than capturing the card.

And shouldn't you know how it works...? I do say it's rather nasty for a midboss card.
Bombing during a Spell Card doesn't increase faith. So it's like they're avoiding it. However, it might be related to the post-boss waves. I'll have a closer look.

And I was asking before I started theorizing >_>
I know the basics of the Spell Card, but that's really it. I've only seen it thrice on Hard, and once on Lunatic.

EDIT: I replay bugged to unlock Lunatic.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 01:39:11 AM by BaitySM »
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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2009, 02:02:41 AM »
Upon bombing, you get 28 points items from the later enemies, plus extra faith.
Staying underneath Hina the entire time yielded 1157080 SC Bonus, plus 5 points from Hina and 14 more from the enemies later, plus a small amount of faith.

Estimating Faith to be at ~200000 by the time you get those points for both sides, bombing yields from ~5600000 to ~6500000,while doing it normally yields from ~4950000 to ~5200000.

Adding to the fact that you get even more faith from the early enemies and your Faith might actually be as high as 250000, it's definitely good to bomb it.

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theshirn

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2009, 02:25:55 AM »
Spreads of two little bullets moving in certain directions.  I'm not certain if the card is aimed or random, but I'm fairly darn sure it's not static.  Also, the third waves that comes at you have bullets hidden behind bullets; once you know that they're there (and don't ram them almost every time and then say "WTF HIT ME") the card really isn't that bad.  Just needs quick reflexes, but if you don't have them (like me) you shouldn't be playing on Lunatic (like I'm trying to do now).

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2009, 07:10:50 PM »
Bombing during a Spell Card doesn't increase faith. So it's like they're avoiding it. However, it might be related to the post-boss waves. I'll have a closer look.

And I was asking before I started theorizing >_>
I know the basics of the Spell Card, but that's really it. I've only seen it thrice on Hard, and once on Lunatic.

EDIT: I replay bugged to unlock Lunatic.

As you will probably realize the spellcard is very easy. You basically just have to stand near the bottom of the screen and read the bullets coming from left, right and above you. If you want a replay then here: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3362

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2009, 11:19:39 AM »
As you will probably realize the spellcard is very easy. You basically just have to stand near the bottom of the screen and read the bullets coming from left, right and above you. If you want a replay then here: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3362
=x

I barely find it easy. Still working out some specifics.

Also, I'd rather just bomb it for post-mid-boss scoring.

Here's a random replay, using (close to flawless) scoring techniques for the stage: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3367

Also included is essentially a perfect Hina run. Where and when I'm supposed to finish each phase for maximum faith, I know but I can't be bothered.

And now, to write an analysis on the Spell Card... if there's anything to write about  >_>

The Spell Card in question is very, very complicated.

I could not help but notice that Hard seems harder than Lunatic... again.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 11:51:58 AM by BaitySM »
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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2009, 03:34:06 PM »
Hard is significantly harder than Lunatic in some parts for sure. Kanako's second spell, Aya's second spell, etc

Flay_wind

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2009, 05:09:27 PM »
Can someone post stategies for 9 level scenes in STB? I've been slaughtered by every scene in that level.

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2009, 06:20:25 PM »
Is there any strategy for Koishi's last spellcard (Subterranean Rose)?
Or is it just plain dodging?

Everything goes (almost) perfectly for the rest of the extra stage but I always die at the second phase of that particular attack.

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2009, 10:04:09 PM »
Shoot the Bullet stage 9

9-1: There really isn't any trick, you just need to dodge, get up when you get a chance and long range your shots. Don't forget to get a really good first shot, as most of your score will probably come from there.
9-2: There are two ways to do this. The manly way, or sweeping from one side of the screen to the other. If you'll notice, the bullets are actually somewhat aimed at you, so if you move from one side to the other you'll be able to easily dodge most of the bullets. Take the shot when you change directions.
9-3: This is one of the easier ones. The butterflies are never aimed at you, so if you don't move too much you'll probably never get hit by them. Now if you're going for score, just find a way to time your shots when you move in. And then all you have to worry about are the leaves. Just be careful when they spawn near you or even on top of you.
9-4: No trick. Get out of the way of the big bullets and big laser, and weave around. Take advantage of your shots to both get a picture and neutralize the massive laser aimed toward you, but be careful, as the timing gap is quite small.
9-5: This is one of the more annoying ones to score on haha. Just plan your steps and take pictures that will get rid of as many lines as possible, to make room for yourself to get through, and that's about it. Charge quickly, you don't have much time before the screen gets filled with a clusterf*ck of bullets.
9-6: Don't worry if you don't get this, this is one of the hardest scenes in the entire game. Nothing to it except dodging all of the bullet streams. Good luck, you're gonna need it.
9-7: Stay close to the laser to direct the large bullets out of your way. Take a lot of defensive shots if needed. It's better to clear off a lot of those bullets or else you might get trapped. And it's not so bad either, as you'll get much of your charge back by clearing the bullets.
9-8: This one is probably the easiest in this stage. Dodge and shoot. That's it. Not a hard pattern either. Although, you could avoid most of the dodging altogether by taking a defensive shot between every boss shot.

There ya go.

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2009, 10:26:54 PM »
Heaven's Stream "Miracle of Otensui"


Both Easy and Normal, can't do it on either for some reason :S


Mountain of Faith (the actual attack not the game) - Is there any trick to this? I do fine following the same pattern for ages, then when it speeds up I get raped at around 1/3 health

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2009, 11:48:34 PM »
Sweet, MoF is my specialty.

For Heaven's Stream, all you have to do is start on one side of the screen (on Lunatic it's the right side, but Easy and Normal may be different), and slowly nudge to the other side, and you have to dodge the larger bullets while you do this. After you get past the larger bullets, however, remember to quickly dash to the end, so the homing bullets form a gap you can pass through. Repeat for the other side. Of course, this method means that you will spend very little time under the boss. If you want to get damage on her as fast as possible, nudge for as long as you can under her, and switch directions as late as possible. Be warned however, the larger bullets will get closer to you the longer you wait.

Mountain of Faith is just dodging, there's no trick. Keep your eyes peeled for openings, and get out of the way of the miniwalls. Focus only when you're not really moving, since you have to move fast to get in between the walls. Luckily, at this difficulty there is nothing that can really trap you, and it's actually a very fair card, but that's completely different on Hard+. That's all there is, just reading the walls.

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2009, 12:09:24 AM »
Mountain of Faith (the actual attack not the game) - Is there any trick to this? I do fine following the same pattern for ages, then when it speeds up I get raped at around 1/3 health

Mountain of Faith on easy is actually a really tricky spell because everything goes dangerously slow. On Normal, it's just a straight dodge-em-up; there isn't really a trick to it. The speed increase shouldn't  put you off, just dodge faster.
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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2009, 12:42:06 AM »
You should dodge inside the storm instead of outside. There are safespots everywhere, really.

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Flay_wind

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2009, 06:27:54 AM »
2 stragroup. Big thanks. Now i see what i've been doing wrong most of the time.

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2009, 02:40:33 PM »
Thanks a lot, I just tried that idea on 'Stream' and although I died, I got further than normal.

It's really hard with ReimuB though, I'm never underneath Kanako for more than like a second.

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2009, 12:52:34 AM »
Yeah you're gonna have to get comfortable with that card before you'll be shoot Kanako down with ReimuB.

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2009, 08:23:48 PM »
By any chance, does anyone have a good strategy for Sumizome Perfect Blossom (Yuyuko's fake final spell) on Lunatic?  It's the one attack of hers that I don't really have a solid grasp on.  I know the butterflies are pseudo-aimed, but trying to stream/misdirect them properly is tricky.  Anyone have an idea?

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2009, 09:02:18 PM »
I just stream from left to right and bomb occasionally. There's too many different things going on for me to understand anything that isn't the bubbles and quasi-aimed butterflies.

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2009, 05:40:45 AM »
I have only played the spell on Normal but by watching a few replays I'll try to give some help.

The butterflies are aimed from the time they are shot, not where you are when they spread. So, try to stay in the middle whenever possible. If you can figure out the order pattern in which the bullets appear that would be even more helpful to you. Try to stay as far away from the vast majority of the pseudo-homing butterflies as possible. If you find yourself being pushed to the side, don't freak out and try to find an opening back to the center. Be prepared to leave yourself a little bit of room at all times in case the big bullets come at you (or you can figure out when they appear so you don't ALWAYS have to keep an open region).

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2009, 11:14:35 AM »
Well i did manage to beat Extra in EoSD but it didn't go very well as far as capping cards go. Only two. Silent Selene and Lavatain.

I'm having trouble with these spells:

Sun Sign "Royal Flare": I know this one is static, but i really suck at figuring such spells out. I would love it if someone could give me just a few guidelines.

Taboo "Cranberry Trap": I have capped it twice but i have no idea how i managed. Anyone know a good way to move? I've heard that it is very trivial if you move the right way.

Taboo "Four of a Kind": This one is nasty. Any advice aside from just dodging the best I can?

Taboo "Maze of Love": I see people go around Flandre but i have no idea how they do it. I can consistenly make it past it with one bomb shotgunning her with ReimuB but i would love to learn how to deal with it.

Forbidden Barrage "Catadioptric": Uhmmm... help?

For the rest of the spells its just about my dodging skills and i have already learned the ways of Counter-Clock so i don't need any help with that one. Secret and Then Will There Be None? is quite tricky because of the finale and the red trap is also very dense but i'll just have to see what i can do.

I really need some assistance here. Just a few words of advice will do. Knowing the ways of the spellcards are the key to consistently clearing any extra stage.

Heaven's Stream "Miracle of Otensui"


Both Easy and Normal, can't do it on either for some reason :S

The easy mode version. Pretty much impossible. You're probably better off bombing it, but there is a technique to it. I think.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 03:23:24 PM by Zengeku »

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2009, 04:52:13 PM »

Sun Sign "Royal Flare": I know this one is static, but i really suck at figuring such spells out. I would love it if someone could give me just a few guidelines.

Shotgun her at the start, then go down just enough so the last wave spawns just above you. You'll notice you have two waves of red balls coming for you, so dodge them to the left. The second batch of red balls will start spawning a bit to the right of the left edge of the screen, so you'll be able to return to the center by going around the first wave. She'll die if you spent enough time on the center at the start.

Taboo "Four of a Kind": This one is nasty. Any advice aside from just dodging the best I can?

Don't think there's any trick to it, just pure dodging.

Forbidden Barrage "Catadioptric": Uhmmm... help?
stay on the bottom right of the screen the whole time, you won't have to dodge a lot since most of the bullets won't even get close, just don't hug the corner, since you might get unlucky with balls bouncing.

I'm terrible with tranberry crap and maze of love, so can't really say anything about them.

If it helps, here is the replay of my first clear, got all the cards you mentioned apart from maze of love: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3399

My explanations might not be the clearest since english isn't my native language, but I hope I've helped ;)

« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 05:41:28 PM by Noite »

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2009, 05:28:43 PM »
Cranberry Trap:  Shotgun Flandre for a little bit until the bullets spawn from the sides.  Then go to the middle and stream the side-bullets down slowly. Then three waves of bullets will come up from the bottom of the screen; use small horizontal movements to dodge those as you make your way downward.  Then move back up to the middle, dodging bullets as you go.  Lather, rinse, repeat, though ReimuB should be able to kill it in about one wave.  It really is trivial once you get the hang of it, and probably her easiest spellcard.

For Maze of Love, the only real trick to it is to stay as close to Flandre as you possibly can, like at the edges of her spell circle.  If you stay too far back, the waves will fan out and make it extremely hard to get through without moving unfocused.  Also remember to not hesitate and keep moving no matter what; stalling for too long will mean getting caught by the spread round shots, and Reimu's focus speed will ensure that a gap will appear in the right places.  Other than that, it's just moving precisely and believing in the power of your unseeable hitbox.

And if you're playing as ReimuB, remember to abuse shotgunning whenever possible.  Several attacks such as Silent Selene, Four of a Kind, and  Kagome Kagome contain long pauses before starting, and can have nearly 2/3 of their lifebar depleted before they even begin.  Look for places where it can be put to good use.

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2009, 07:10:03 PM »
Sun Sign "Royal Flare": I know this one is static, but i really suck at figuring such spells out. I would love it if someone could give me just a few guidelines.
Watch replays. You can't describe the movements you have to make.

Quote
Taboo "Cranberry Trap": I have capped it twice but i have no idea how i managed. Anyone know a good way to move? I've heard that it is very trivial if you move the right way.
What they all said about shotgunning and streaming and such. Only thing I have to add is that after you dodge the purple bullets, the next wave of purple bullets come from the exact same spots as where the previous one ended, so if you stream down, you don't even need to worry about dodging the ones coming from the bottom because they'll be in the same spots. If you watch a replay, watch the

Quote
Taboo "Four of a Kind": This one is nasty. Any advice aside from just dodging the best I can?
Not really. Green are aimed, blue alternate paths and yellow is based on her position.

Quote
Taboo "Maze of Love": I see people go around Flandre but i have no idea how they do it. I can consistenly make it past it with one bomb shotgunning her with ReimuB but i would love to learn how to deal with it.
LEFT LEFT WAIT WAIT WAIT RIGHT
These are movements that you can make to capture it while at the bottom of the screen. You dodge the blue line at the beginning by inching to the left, then move over one bullet as it says up there.[/quote]

I'll see if I can up a replay when I get home explaining these methods.

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Ghaleon

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2009, 07:18:05 PM »
I personally can't do royal flare as anything other than marissa A. Which I'm sure you know how to do, stay low, go up thru one loop of red bullets, then stay stationary (I normally have to go back down though) as the bullet loop on the right side slips left of you, go back down. She should croak shortly after bullets start spawning right at the bottom of the screen.

Cranberry trap I'm actually pretty good at I think, on my replay I screwed it up badly. That was just some finger slipage. I don't know if my strategy works for everyone but for me it's like this:
1: don't worry about purple bullets, they a piece of cake.
2: blue bullets are aimed (or seem to be), so try to be as high as safely possible (don't forget flandre moves though, I've gotten body-check killed by her a couple times, doh), slowly move down as needed as they shoot.
3: once purple bullets start spewing out again, you can move down a bit more as all the blue bullets fly harmlessly past. Repeat ftw.
4: If things aren't going well and your "flying high" for the blue bullets isn't very high at all, don't feel bad hugging the bottom during purple bullet phase. The blue bullets should never hit you there if you weren't hugging the bottom completely while they were shooting, and the purple bullets tend to be spread out pretty wide at the bottom so you can just park between their shots, even as they are shooting from the bottom.

Four of a kind I capped on my first and second attempts on flandre... now I can't seem to cap it. You can kill her clones but they seem pretty beefy, I don't think they actually dissapear any faster than the real flandre does in this phase. I do notice though if you can make it past the 2nd "big bullets instead of small red bullets" shots, it gets easier. I personally find dodging them big ones a whole lot easier than the countless little ones.

I DO notice though that neither flandre or the clones move a whole lot during this phase. I mean they can, but they don't seem to as much. So you may want to look at them while you're in a safe spot and wait until they move before you worry about dodging more, or else you just might psych yourself out.

Maze of love.. This is one ability that really makes me think I should get a gamepad. I just can't circle well with arrow keys. Sometimes I can do it, but after her first 450ish degree spin of blue bullets, I can't seem to get back into position for her orange/red bullets afterwards fast enough, and bombing on this phase is so damn awful because it only seems to make flandre invincible for longer than yourself, to make matters worse it's very hard to see where the "safe area" is after a bomb. I do know though that if you can spin around her until you're around 10 oclock, you can bomb, and she wont really start shooting again until the orange/red bullet phase (giving you a chance to be in position back under her so you can actually shoot her too.

I still found that just staying under, shooting her as long as possible, dying, and shooting more is the best way for me though. I just have it as a given that the move WILL kill me. Better to kamikazee it than to risk dying 2 or 3 times trying to do it properly for me.

Catadioptic owns me too. People say it's pretty easy in the bottom right cornerish.. But I still find this move to be a doozy. I really don't know what to say.

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2009, 08:17:30 AM »
Okay, I've been trying to 1cc EoSD Normal for awhile and I need some help with some of the later spellcards that are really just giving me issues.

Conjuring "Misdirection":
Sakuya's mid-boss section always gives me issues, particularly her non-spell pattern. I can never seem to get between the red kunai without getting hit. I've been "skipping" this section by staying above Sakuya but the points would be nice to have.

Misdirection itself I don't have *too* many issues with, but the pattern can get a little overwhelming as Sakuya's health goes down. I always end up moving too much and running into a bullet I shouldn't have, or moving too little and just getting hit.

Illusion Image "Luna Clock":
The randomness of the daggers always forces me into what seems like an impassable wall. I always end up wasting bombs on this spell card out of panic. Is there any kind of trick into it?

Maid Secret Skill "Marionette":
Ugh! I just can't get by without bombing this. The sheer amount of random daggers just gets me. I tend to go from side to side to get her to aim her curtains away from me, but the randomness still craps me out.

Dark Sign "Scarlet Netherworld":
Those freaking criss-crossing bullets... I can never seem to get through them. They always overwhelm me and make me panic bomb.

Curse "Curse of Vlad Tepes":
The odd dagger/blood patterns make me run into stuff, I lose lives here just because I collide into things I shouldn't.

"Red Magic":
Her massive HP on this spellcard is what really gets me. I start off okay but I start to get overwhelmed as it goes on.

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2009, 08:56:28 AM »
Let's see...

I'll fill in mid-boss Sakuya's initial phase later (see: below this post a bit)

Conjuring "Misdirection":
Fortunately it's Normal. Start from one side of the screen (or about 1/3 in from either side, and tap your way across after she fires kunai, and from the point where she throws the "faster" knives).

Illusion Image "Luna Clock":
Try moving to the side (not the corner, but higher, like closer to the center of the screen in terms of vertical distance) before Time Stop. Following this, move down towards the bottom of the other corner (or bottom-middle). Dodge less dense wave. Repeat in reverse direction. Works almost every time.

Maid Secret Skill "Marionette":
If you're using Marisa, it is possible to swing around each wave. Although even possible with Reimu, it is more difficult to perform. Note that you have to be in the center initially. Trying to stand on the side will prolong the Spell Card, in addition to causing the knives to be misdirected too much.

If you don't opt for this, the best thing to do is to move to a place where the knife spam is least dense, and dodge carefully. Note that green knives won't change directions again.

Dark Sign "Scarlet Netherworld":
It's diagonal-bullet dodging if you choose to not stand in between the "needle bullets". try a rhythmic left-right/up-down patten to follow. You should be able to get through the waves if you time it properly. Alternatively, predict where each and every bullet moves, and position yourself into the blindspot.

Curse "Curse of Vlad Tepes": Curving knives. Not much to offer in terms of advice, apart from predicting how each knife will bend. Also, beware of clipping, and certain times where the waves move in such a way that they make a wall.

"Red Magic":
It's a matter of survival over any fixed strategy, as with most final Spell Cards. Try to avoid getting cornered / stuck on the bottom of the screen.

I'll work on a replay of a randomly designated (or reqeusted) shot type after dinner. brb

Replay will be with ReimuA. Note that I might, for the sake of habit shotgun out of complete unnecessity.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 11:23:26 AM by BaitySM »
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Ghaleon

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2009, 09:03:28 AM »
My little bit for curse of vlad tepes. I notice that it really helps to try and stay on the top 2/3 of the screen. Below that the curving knives can stop their curve, and can really really screw you if you're anticipating their curve only to see it just stopped and smacked into you. VERY annoying.. of course you can also hug the bottom and see them stop curving long before they hit you and predict their pattern easier. I find if you do this you'll end up hugging the bottom left corner which is obviously bad, and leaves you with virtually nothing to do if a wave of bullets happens to go towards you.

I've only just 1cc'd normal like 3 or 4 times though, so my experience can be 100% coincidental, take it with a grain of salt.

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2009, 10:02:41 AM »
And done. It was quite bad play from Stage 5 onwards. I do at least show some of the things. Look in the replay for mid-boss Sakuya. I would recommend that method for all difficulties.

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3415

I should have stopped scoring while I was ahead. Also, dying with bombs in stock. Things just happen. It would look so much more polished if I could do it stage-by-stage. Guess that can't be helped.

...and ignore the stage runs. I would advise you to stick with basic streaming and dodging from the lower half of the screen for the majority of the time. But I assume that isn't a problem.

Note: I do not use ReimuA for score-runs in EoSD. I use ReimuB because of shotgun capabilities. That, and the homing system sucks for the majority of the time.
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

RainfallYoshi

  • Yoshi of Skies & Rains
  • Who is it that calls for me?
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2009, 10:33:28 PM »
Thanks a ton for the replay Baity. It's definitely a great reference for how to do some of the trickier shots and parts of stages. I'm still practicing up and will let you know how my next attempt goes.