UK and E-Mouse (Season 1)

[E-Nazrin]

My spine is a rare and transient thing. It's probably the best thing about mania, though it tends to be accompanied by an 'inexplicable' IQ drop.

And yeah, best sort of relationships of any sort are supposed to be good for all parties involved.

[UncertainJakutten]

My spine is a rare and transient thing. It's probably the best thing about mania, though it tends to be accompanied by an 'inexplicable' IQ drop.

And yeah, best sort of relationships of any sort are supposed to be good for all parties involved.

I agree. Fortunately, my pleasure is derived from my ability to please whoever I'm pleasing. So if I do a good job, I get my own reward.

[E-Nazrin]

I agree. Fortunately, my pleasure is derived from my ability to please whoever I'm pleasing. So if I do a good job, I get my own reward.

That is the most confusing and even enviable part of the paradox. I guess the worry is, what about the ways the person you're pleasing wants to be pleased? But we've covered that before, so meh.

[UncertainJakutten]

That is the most confusing and even enviable part of the paradox. I guess the worry is, what about the ways the person you're pleasing wants to be pleased? But we've covered that before, so meh.

Of course I have limits. But they are rather loose, and plus, I choose masters (well, as much as I choose anything) based on knowing what they like won't violate my limits. To be more fair, I'm drawn towards masters who will treat me properly, as "properly" as someone like me should be treated .

[E-Nazrin]

Or wants to be treated, perhaps. :V

[UncertainJakutten]

Or wants to be treated, perhaps. :V

Leave my will out of this! I'm a toy, ya hear ?

My wants don't matter . But they do.

Dammit, quit making the paradox transparent. I use obfuscation techniques for a reason Mus

It's really odd though. Of course, the fact I tend to bend to whatever my master wants in a slave is how I justify it as submission rather than an odd sort of dominance.

[E-Nazrin]

I think it really is a form of submission, since you aren't exactly dictating to them how to treat you; just trusting them to use/abuse you in ways that you're willing to submit to and that (at least) they'd enjoy.

'course, it's better when both enjoy it, but since you're supposed to get that intrinsically from the setup, it's at least less of an issue.

Me, I'm more of a selfish bastard... but I don't like that.

[UncertainJakutten]

[quot]I think it really is a form of submission, since you aren't exactly dictating to them how to treat you; just trusting them to use/abuse you in ways that you're willing to submit to and that (at least) they'd enjoy.[/quote]

You are really beginning to get it.

Me, I'm more of a selfish bastard... but I don't like that.

What do you mean?

And if you are selfish doesn't that make you more suited to...um...have fun with me?

[E-Nazrin]

You are really beginning to get it.

I think I am, but you definitely helped. I'm just paranoid about abuse... and somewhat uncertain about whether certain 'uses' of you would be a bad idea for the user in a broader context.

And if you are selfish doesn't that make you more suited to...um...have fun with me?

Like I said - I'm not proud of it, so I try not to be if I can avoid it, especially at significant costs to others. I remember overhearing you actually being disappointed at the lowish degree of use you got at a convention meet, and I know I'm fairly shy about doing such things - especially for fear of it being bad for my general mental health. Or yours.

[UncertainJakutten]

I think I am, but you definitely helped. I'm just paranoid about abuse... and somewhat uncertain about whether certain 'uses' of you would be a bad idea for the user in a broader context.

well...what would be a bad use of me in the way you are thinking?

Like I said - I'm not proud of it, so I try not to be if I can avoid it, especially at significant costs to others. I remember overhearing you actually being disappointed at the lowish degree of use you got at a convention meet, and I know I'm fairly shy about doing such things - especially for fear of it being bad for my general mental health. Or yours.

Well, I can't really blame they guy. I was a nervous wreck on the first day, this being my first experience, and by the time I was ready to do anything special I didn't push it. I mean, it was mostly my fault I didn't get used too much. As for being shy...we'd have a lot of time...I could help you over it...maybe we could both improve each other a bit...

* UncertainKitten blushes.

As for it being bad for mental health...how do you think it would be?

[E-Nazrin]

well...what would be a bad use of me in the way you are thinking?

As for it being bad for mental health...how do you think it would be?

I can answer both of these at once by saying "I don't want to type out the sort of examples that come to mind if I try to think about this." Easy components to explain would be (near-)starvation, the ever-fun "hanging upside-down for a few years" CT reference, improper and extended use of blood, and other 'little' risks leaning towards guro.

I do not enjoy even thinking of these, but I do not trust myself in a position capable of invoking them.

[UncertainJakutten]

I can answer both of these at once by saying "I don't want to type out the sort of examples that come to mind if I try to think about this." Easy components to explain would be (near-)starvation, the ever-fun "hanging upside-down for a few years" CT reference, improper and extended use of blood, and other 'little' risks leaning towards guro.

I do not enjoy even thinking of these, but I do not trust myself in a position capable of invoking them.

Are you saying that your taste is somewhat in that direction? I didn't figure you to be into guro if I'm right.

Of course the contract isn't so inviolable I couldn't refuse stuff like that. That's where my will being outside the system comes in.

[E-Nazrin]

Are you saying that your taste is somewhat in that direction? I didn't figure you to be into guro if I'm right.

Of course the contract isn't so inviolable I couldn't refuse stuff like that. That's where my will being outside the system comes in.

I'm pretty sure it isn't, but I now remember how some of my first sexually-related conversations on AIM were with a bad friend that had some of those interests, and it worries me. Again, the matter is more trusting myself with that sort of authority, or responsibility. I just don't.

[UncertainJakutten]

I'm pretty sure it isn't, but I now remember how some of my first sexually-related conversations on AIM were with a bad friend that had some of those interests, and it worries me. Again, the matter is more trusting myself with that sort of authority, or responsibility. I just don't.

You don't have to...the fact I trust you is enough...even if you don't do anything with it...as long as you're happy with me is my greatest joy ...

Also...I tend to be a good judge of character...I don't think you would be as bad as you think.

[E-Nazrin]

Objectively, I doubt I would, too, but those undercurrents of rage and ruthlessness are disturbing. Stupid maleness.

Thanks for your trust, though.

[UncertainJakutten]

Objectively, I doubt I would, too, but those undercurrents of rage and ruthlessness are disturbing. Stupid maleness.

Thanks for your trust, though.

Actually, rage and ruthlessness is one of the reasons I exist...it helps vent those feelings. I'm a very willing "punching bag" of sorts .

[E-Nazrin]

There's the problem. Is it really best to 'vent' those feelings? Wasn't that model based on Freudian assumptions? I remember a mention in one of the positive psychology books I've read that not expressing anger helps more, in the long run, or something like that. So is it really a good idea?

[UncertainJakutten]

There's the problem. Is it really best to 'vent' those feelings? Wasn't that model based on Freudian assumptions? I remember a mention in one of the positive psychology books I've read that not expressing anger helps more, in the long run, or something like that. So is it really a good idea?

Actually, as far as I know expressing your anger is best, but not in the "ARGH RAGE BREAK STUFF" way. To resolve it peacefully is best and dissipates the feeling best.

But that's actually better. While I'm willing to be used as a punching bag, sessions done in anger make for VERY dangerous games. I'm always willing to sit there and listen, and even advise if you ask me to

And Freud was indeed wrong about a lot of things.

[E-Nazrin]

Actually, as far as I know expressing your anger is best, but not in the "ARGH RAGE BREAK STUFF" way. To resolve it peacefully is best and dissipates the feeling best.

So where's whipping, wax-scarring, humiliation, use as furniture, (mock) rape, etc come into play for this?

[UncertainJakutten]

So where's whipping, wax-scarring, humiliation, use as furniture, (mock) rape, etc come into play for this?

That's actually for fun.

The idea isn't that it's done in rage. It's done because it's something you kinda would like to do but can't really exercise often. But submissives like me exist for sadists to play with. It's...hard to explain.

It's...like how being used causes something to click in me that feels good, using someone causes something to click in a sadist. At least, I think that's how it is...maybe I'll ask master...

[E-Nazrin]

That's actually for fun.

The idea isn't that it's done in rage. It's done because it's something you kinda would like to do but can't really exercise often. But submissives like me exist for sadists to play with. It's...hard to explain.

It's...like how being used causes something to click in me that feels good, using someone causes something to click in a sadist. At least, I think that's how it is...maybe I'll ask master...

You're probably right about the setup there. Perhaps it's more concern about whether being willing to exercise or submit to such dangerous or socially unwise things is a good idea.

But, considering how rarely it actually becomes a problem, plus the presence of much worse and much more widespread failings, it's really not worth throwing a fit over.

[UncertainJakutten]

Honestly, as long as you aren't stupid about it BDSM can be seen as almost a purer expression of love...I mean, the trust involved runs deeper than vanilla, IMO.

[E-Nazrin]

That's extremely true, in all honesty. I suppose I'm just not very trusting, and I'm being stubborn at this point.

I do that a lot. It's not always a good thing.

[UncertainJakutten]

That's extremely true, in all honesty. I suppose I'm just not very trusting, and I'm being stubborn at this point.

I do that a lot. It's not always a good thing.

Fortunately, most of the trust goes in my role. Well, yes, you have to trust me to be a good girl and to actually listen to you, but I mean, as far as I can tell it is the submissive that needs to trust more. Though I welcome arguments otherwise .

I do that a lot. It's not always a good thing.

Eh, being stubborn is decent. Makes someone work harder to get you so they value you more.

But was that an admission that I'm somehow making headway?

[E-Nazrin]

Fortunately, most of the trust goes in my role. Well, yes, you have to trust me to be a good girl and to actually listen to you, but I mean, as far as I can tell it is the submissive that needs to trust more. Though I welcome arguments otherwise .

No, I agree wholeheartedly on that count. Allowing that much control by another is almost mind-bogglingly trusting. 'Using' that trust is... more a matter of self-control, maybe. But doesn't require a lot of trust - except maybe for 'orders' that can't be observed or monitored? I guess that's relevant in your circumstances, but in person that's rarely an issue.

Eh, being stubborn is decent. Makes someone work harder to get you so they value you more.

That isn't necessarily true. And outside of that context, it can be more problematic. For example, I pretty much refuse to do things I don't want to do - like actually do any work. :/ The problems here are rather self-evident.

But was that an admission that I'm somehow making headway?

Huh? That was about our discussion of submissiveness and my irrationally persisting wariness towards it.

[UncertainJakutten]

No, I agree wholeheartedly on that count. Allowing that much control by another is almost mind-bogglingly trusting. 'Using' that trust is... more a matter of self-control, maybe. But doesn't require a lot of trust - except maybe for 'orders' that can't be observed or monitored? I guess that's relevant in your circumstances, but in person that's rarely an issue.

Kinda, to a degree you have to trust them to keep your confidence and not to act up. The submissive reflects on you, in a way. (sorta like how the behavior of children reflects on their parents)

That isn't necessarily true. And outside of that context, it can be more problematic. For example, I pretty much refuse to do things I don't want to do - like actually do any work. :/ The problems here are rather self-evident.

Heh, I know how that can be. But yeah, I suppose it's like any trait...has good and bad applications.

Huh? That was about our discussion of submissiveness and my irrationally persisting wariness towards it.

A shame. And here I was hoping...that you might like me a little more...

* UncertainKitten blushes at this.

[E-Nazrin]

Kinda, to a degree you have to trust them to keep your confidence and not to act up. The submissive reflects on you, in a way. (sorta like how the behavior of children reflects on their parents)

ANY sort of relationship relies on trusting them to keep your confidence and not act up. A submissive is even easier to manage in that context since they have a consistent track record of not doing so even in atypically 'extreme' circumstances, and can more readily be relied on to continue that. Sorry, I have to disagree on this one.

Heh, I know how that can be. But yeah, I suppose it's like any trait...has good and bad applications.

A shame. And here I was hoping...that you might like me a little more...

* UncertainKitten blushes at this.

Hey, it's always nice to have more friends to talk to about serious matters. And VERY good to try and learn from ones that have a different mindset than yourself.

[UncertainJakutten]

Hey, it's always nice to have more friends to talk to about serious matters. And VERY good to try and learn from ones that have a different mindset than yourself.

I agree...but if we become friends it makes it that much harder to...pursue my liking for you..since it could ruin the friendship...and...well...

I wouldn't mind being with you...

ANY sort of relationship relies on trusting them to keep your confidence and not act up. A submissive is even easier to manage in that context since they have a consistent track record of not doing so even in atypically 'extreme' circumstances, and can more readily be relied on to continue that. Sorry, I have to disagree on this one.

Never said it was a LOT of trust, I'm just saying trust is involved.

[E-Nazrin]

I agree...but if we become friends it makes it that much harder to...pursue my liking for you..since it could ruin the friendship...and...well...

I wouldn't mind being with you...

We're already talking here, you silly. :V

Never said it was a LOT of trust, I'm just saying trust is involved.

It always is. I just don't find it exceptional enough to make a point of. I'm being a bit of a jerk again, aren't I?

[UncertainJakutten]

We're already talking here, you silly.

We are...but...even so, switching modes...to at least try out being lovers would change the content and framework of our conversation...I mean, you don't DISlike me, do you?

It always is. I just don't find it exceptional enough to make a point of. I'm being a bit of a jerk again, aren't I?

No, it's alright, it's open for argument.