INVASION! (Game Over, Nobody Wins)

[Sodium]

Well, Serp is still has his Day 2 case on him. Also, his Angel Milk vote had a general feeling of "Screw this, Angel Milk, die so I can live".

##Vote Serp

Other Thoughts:
Kiro & Suwako are probably town
@Edible: How the hell do 5 Stones play hopscotch? Messily.
Affinity's somewhat scummy, but while Affinity had a bad Day 1, Serp had a bad Day 1 and 2.
I think I may need a re-read of Kitten4u
And Pesco too, because I seem to be lacking thoughts on them.
Still think UK's case on Roukan is good, although Roukan has been getting better
Nietz needs to exist on a more regular basis.

Oh, and assuming that all Deadlines are going to be on 2PM EST, I won't be here for them, seeing as I'll be at school. =V

[Kitten4u]

##Vote Serpentarius

I have two projects due and a test tomorrow, so I don't really have time to say much.  It seems like Serp spent most of yesterday just trying to cover his own ass instead of scum hunting.

I'm still suspicious of Rou, but I don't think he's as bad as Serp right now.  It looked like he was trying to scum hunt yesterday at least even if he did spend a large amount of it defending himself.  That's more than I can say for Serp.

Affinity, you asked me what he was doing that made me think he was scum hunting, but I wasn't able to answer before the deadline.  He was asking decent questions and making decent points.  I thought that was a given when I said "scum hunting," unless you wanted me to point out specific posts or something.

subsequent tunneling

I'm starting to get the feeling that tunneling is just in my nature.  I've conciously trying to not tunnel, but I appear to be failing.  At least I'm not as bad as I was last game. :V

Now looks like a good time for a full list o' suspicions, but I don't have time to do it right now.  I'll try to get it up tomorrow.

[Suwako Moriya]

Personal stuff's come up, I maaaay have to drop out.  We'll see.

Serp looks pretty bad, the case is self evident, see Kilga yesterday, I would have switched to Serp rather than Anthony if I'd known Edible was going to change his mind on the modkill *fist shake*

I'm not too hot on the Rou case but I am lukewarm on it.  The rage on day 1 read real and he's played a bit better since then but he's capable of pulling this off as scum so hrm.

My Pesco case from day 1 is dead...
... long live the Pesco case!  That BS about "oh yeah votestealers are town" is C RAY ZEE.  I didn't want to start a fight about it yesterday since there were more important cases and flips would help it out, but man I don't know.  (PS I think it's safe to say the votestealer is scum) 
It could just be Pesco being Pesco, I understand he has a... unique and colorful history in this regard.  To put it mildly.  But I am realllllly not a fan... and then you bring in Affinity, who also looks kinda bad, and got all super paranoid about my day 1 Pesco votes. 

I'm a little torn between going after Serp or digging into the Pesco/Affinity junk right now.

##Vote: Serp
for right now just to make sure I have a vote.  Everyone should lay something down to test.

[Edible]

Vote Count: Macross Frontier Edition
Serpentarius (3): Kiro, Sodium, Kitten4U
Affinity (1): Roukanken

Not voting: Everyone else

[FinnKaenbyou]

And my warning of impending L-2...is stopped by Suwako getting voteblocked. Excellent. :V

[Nietz]

Not much change in my opinions from Day 2 (except that I was obviously wrong about Anthony). I still have some rereads I neglected to do, but I'm too tired right now, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

[Affinity]

@Rou:

Not responding is scummy in its own way.

This was a point that Eliphas had made against him the day before which no-one had really followed up on. Why was he compelled to produce a defense against it?

This is a direct contradiction to what your scumhunting philosophy seems to be, isn't it?  I respond to whatever I like and don't to whatever I don't like, so I don't see why you should bring that point up in any way.  Besides, your paranoia, with your numerous mistakes and bad scumhunting, is far worse that what I supposedly have in the first place, so what is wrong, exactly?  Even if you suppose that I did make a mistake, how does it make me scummy in comparison to anyone else like yourself?

This is especially odd since Affinity claims in said post that he doesn't appreciate VgT's tone or play.

Tone of play has nothing to do with whether one is scum or not.  I didn't appreciate UK's in the past either, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she was scum.  I found Suwako more scummy, went for it, since he put in less effort than VgT and more glaring in my eyes than he was.  Neither have you said anything about VgT much either, moreover, you just stuck him to the 6th in the suspicion list which did not mean anything.  Again we have the 'I can accuse anyone else of not being on the VgT bandwagon except myself' mentality.

Furthermore, quote me on when I said that Serp was cleared in my eyes.  Repeat it in red.  I simply did not read him enough to find him scummy at that point in time, and was merely questioning you on what I found contradictory, which uhh, produced results.  This post has also lampshaded me finding him scummy.

---

Roukanken seems horrible for now, since this post has confirmed that three-quarters of his 'scumhunting' (K4u take note) on day two has been rendered absolutely worthless from a 'mistake', going so far as to pin me and other people for things less serious.  Contradicts himself more than the number of times I water my fields, and the latter is already quite a bit.  Third lowest content to post ratio for D2 (behind Anthony and Angel Milk).  Preferred lynch for today.

Sodium is merely piggybacking on a number of cases except for Kitten4u yesterday's with very little insight and elaboration, as can be seen by his short and unfulfilled promises to reread, with nothing original to his name, which shall be detrimental to him in the later days.  By the way, how is my D1 'bad'?  Seems to be the manifestation of everyone else's opinions but his own.

Suwako is haha for going back to pesco even after all his meaningless posturing yesterday about day 1 cases are day 1 and uses my questioning as a non-existent foothold for suspicion without explaining why it is scummier than say, 'contradictions on day 1'.  He has also dumped his vote on Angel Milk for the majority of the day and has not commented anything on the existing cases of note on D2, other than 'it's good' for the Serp case.  Also refuses to answer questions, and his Kilga suspicion from early D2 has faded away like Cirno in summer.  Third scummiest even after considering D1; scummiest if not.  Things like these also give him no reason not to put forward the pesco 'case' on D2, since he had, uhh, nothing to say.  Reactionary scumhunting.

Serp is horrible for focusing all his energy on the Angel Milk and Anthony cases when there was nothing left to analyze, resting his vote there while not commenting on the remaining players at all, which was more important for day two.  Things pointed out by Kilga more prevalent now that he merely stuck a vote on Angel Milk the entire day without looking at flips; I could lump Suwako and Serp together in this regard, but bandwagon analysis from D1 favors the Serp case more.  Second preferred lynch for today.  Also does not answer Kiro's latest post against him.

Nietz is far better than Sodium despite the latter's hypocritical prod for him to post more.  Is a little bit of a person trying to get under the radar with opinions which are reasonable but common enough.  His D1 actions as pointed out by u-mu aren't very great due to wishy-washiness but that has not been done in D2, which is a plus point.  Neutral for now.

pesco has done his fair share of piggybacking and cheerleading, but with valid contributions.  Also, original analysis at points gives his opinion some weight.  This is an example.

UK I have no idea.  Only person whose posts I have not completely read, but I would like to see her opinions today to get a better opinion.

Kiro is solid in his areas of suspicion, Anthony and Serp, but does not provide much outside that window.  Opinions on other people would be greatly beneficial.  Good questioning of Serp as well.

Kitten4u's analysis is slightly lacking; posts are concise and opinions original but without sufficient explanation.  Better than Sodium.  Neutral for now.

---

Therefore with willingness to switch to Serp if situations call for it,

##Vote Roukanken

[FinnKaenbyou]

This is a direct contradiction to what your scumhunting philosophy seems to be, isn't it?  I respond to whatever I like and don't to whatever I don't like, so I don't see why you should bring that point up in any way.

It's more a matter of 'if you felt it was worth responding to, why did it wait until Day 2?'

Besides, your paranoia, with your numerous mistakes and bad scumhunting, is far worse that what I supposedly have in the first place, so what is wrong, exactly?  Even if you suppose that I did make a mistake, how does it make me scummy in comparison to anyone else like yourself?

Perhaps in your position I'd be suspicious of me, but I've seen my role PM. I know I'm Town affiliated, and after my screwups for the first two days I've been doing my best to pick up the pieces.

Tone of play has nothing to do with whether one is scum or not.  I didn't appreciate UK's in the past either, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she was scum.  I found Suwako more scummy, went for it, since he put in less effort than VgT and more glaring in my eyes than he was.

It's more the fact that you never discuss him again after that that worries me. Was he really not worth at least discussing?

Neither have you said anything about VgT much either, moreover, you just stuck him to the 6th in the suspicion list which did not mean anything.  Again we have the 'I can accuse anyone else of not being on the VgT bandwagon except myself' mentality.

And again, you defend yourself by attacking me. Get this - I'm willing to admit that I screwed up on VgT. Nothing I can do about it now but move on.
I'm willing to argue that I haven't linked myself as closely to Serp as you have, either.

Furthermore, quote me on when I said that Serp was cleared in my eyes.  Repeat it in red.  I simply did not read him enough to find him scummy at that point in time, and was merely questioning you on what I found contradictory, which uhh, produced results.  This post has also lampshaded me finding him scummy.

Again, was he so un-scummy that he was worth not mentioning?
And I don't see any reference to Serp in the linked post, anyway. T_T

---

Affinity's habit of throwing in the 'WELL YOU'RE DOING IT TOO' clause into his defense isn't improving him in my eyes. Maintaining my vote.

Anyway, it's like 4:30 am over here. The roommates have stopped singing, so I'm gonna get some sleep. >_>

[Affinity]

And I don't see any reference to Serp in the linked post, anyway. T_T

Serp has not voted anyone other than Suwako and Angel Milk, which implies that he was one of the people I felt was most scummy.

It's more a matter of 'if you felt it was worth responding to, why did it wait until Day 2?'

Uh, day two?  This is my first day two post.  Almost everything you have been doing this game has been throwing fairy dust at people.  Post was the first one right after Eliphas'.

Perhaps in your position I'd be suspicious of me, but I've seen my role PM. I know I'm Town affiliated, and after my screwups for the first two days I've been doing my best to pick up the pieces.

I don't think you have.  Either way, what you know doesn't really matter in any way. 

It's more the fact that you never discuss him again after that that worries me. Was he really not worth at least discussing?

No he wasn't in my eyes.  He was trying; felt he wasn't that scummy for the same way you did.  Suwako was not.  Neither was Anthony.  Those were far more important to me on D1.

And again, you defend yourself by attacking me. Get this - I'm willing to admit that I screwed up on VgT. Nothing I can do about it now but move on.  I'm willing to argue that I haven't linked myself as closely to Serp as you have, either.

Post I cited.  You didn't admit the above until I questioned you thoroughly.  Accentuating the negative doesn't help your case.

Furthermore, just as a criminal doesn't gain any cred for pointing out that someone else supposedly did the same thing they did while maintaining innocence, you don't either, especially if there is, uhh, more evidence against you along the same lines of reasoning.  It's downright hypocritical, even.  Your imaginary friends are also kind of grating and hint at you not reading.

[Suwako Moriya]

Suwako is haha for going back to pesco even after all his meaningless posturing yesterday about day 1 cases are day 1 and uses my questioning as a non-existent foothold for suspicion without explaining why it is scummier than say, 'contradictions on day 1'.  He has also dumped his vote on Angel Milk for the majority of the day and has not commented anything on the existing cases of note on D2, other than 'it's good' for the Serp case.  Also refuses to answer questions, and his Kilga suspicion from early D2 has faded away like Cirno in summer.  Third scummiest even after considering D1; scummiest if not.  Things like these also give him no reason not to put forward the pesco 'case' on D2, since he had, uhh, nothing to say.  Reactionary scumhunting.

You know, I'm just going to quote this for emphasis.  Not to defend myself - there's nothing to defend myself from here - but as an illustration of Affinity.
- STILL consumed with my day 1 Pesco case
- Somehow doesn't grasp the difference between that Pesco case and the current one
- In fact doesn't really grasp the current Pesco case at all but what can you do
- Also failed to grasp the case on Angel Milk (and missed the comments I made on the other cases of the day but that's forgiveable... ish... okay not really but!)
- Attacks me for no longer being suspicious of Kilga.  (PSST: KILGA IS DEAD.)

I don't even know what the hell. 

##Fakevote: Affinity

So I'm voteblocked, that's cute, I didn't get any sort of message about it.

Affinity and Pesco need to die, I think this puts them moderately over Serp.  The only thing giving me pause here is that I would think scum would notice Kilga was dead if they killed him, but there are two kills and this game is nuts so who knows.  Still down with Serp lynch too, it's still a good case even though it seems a bit mutually exclusive with the Affinity one.  At least one of them is just a terrible townie but I ain't really up for betting on which, kill both.  What all this really does is make me not inclined to buy into the Rou case at all today.

[Affinity]

Attacks me for no longer being suspicious of Kilga

What I have been attacking you for that since D2.  Misinterpretation and a dramatic showcase of how you fail to read the thread at all.  Extremely laughable is the fact that I was referring what I did on day two. 

Also failed to grasp the case on Angel Milk

Two posts?  He didn't post much, thus he's scummy.  His existing posts don't make sense. He didn't post anymore and yet you didn't comment on anyone else.  Are you sure you're right about this.

STILL consumed with my day 1 Pesco case

Your actions in the game are nigh unreadable.  You didn't drop the one on Kilga on D2 that was the point of the entire accusation.

In fact doesn't really grasp the current Pesco case at all but what can you do

Votestealers are town.  One statement against many.  What.  You can't grasp air.

missed the comments I made on the other cases of the day but that's forgiveable... ish... okay not really but

Quote!  None of them have any bearing do they.  Only vague pointers on what you think and nothing more; unsupported opinions.

You don't make sense.  Not one point of what you raised, in that post or that whole game, gives any semblance of scumhunting.  More of reactionary screaming.

[Affinity]

Kilga looks pretty good to me.

The heck you doin, camera crow?  Rest of this crew's pretty hopeless but I kinda expected more from you here.  YOU know what I'm talkin about here, why you sittin back and letting this go on?  Either you're resigned or you're scum and I don't take resignation to be your style.

I still have my doubts on Kilga, in fact they're amplified by his picking Serpentarius as the case to champion today, but man talk about a day with low hanging lynch fruit

The last quote was never realised.  This is a very strong testament to Suwako's superb lack of solidity for his opinions and his inability to hide it very well.

[Pesco]

Haven't done my reread yet. Affinity stirs my gut with what I mentioned yesterday about the Umu NK. This point could also apply to Rou too though.

Serp had something to say yesterday and claimed that he wouldn't be NK'd. So tell us what you were going to say.

Rou's list is just laughable as everyone appears to be town on it, except for obv suspects. At this stage, I don't see why both Kittens' vote jumps should be a free pass. There should be deeper reading going on there.

And let's not forget that Nietz is playing too. Very quiet chappy there.

##Vote Rou in the meantime.

[Affinity]

Rou's list is just laughable as everyone appears to be town on it, except for obv suspects.

If you think going for obvious suspects is scummy, then why didn't you press Kiro or perhaps Suwako yesterday for going for Angel Milk and Anthony?  Not that I think Rou's list is very good; it confirms that his entire day two play has been a ploy or at the very least useless all along due to him dropping even the non-bandwagon reliant points against Sodium.  But then again, I don't think it's a good reason for a vote.

[Pesco]

Notice that his list basically amounts to not actively scumhunting.

[Kiro]

Time now for the actual Day 3 reread to consider things as a whole.

---

To start, Rou does not see the early "case" on VgT in #91 even after VgT unvotes his joke vote and leaves it idle in #86. Also remembered why I found him suspicious and with Anthony's Town flip, he's back near the top along with the points he replied to in #143 where he was distracted by Pesco and didn't initially vote Anthony. Not that strong of a reason because that was all RVS, and am still a little doubtful about Pesco irritating you in RVS especially for using the crack fic.

Also, Sodium piped up in #351 and you don't bother to address his post after voting him in Day 2. Dunno why you wouldn't make a comment of sorts if he's your scum pick at the time. You pretty much placed your vote on him and never pursued it farther which feels unusual.

#367 suddenly takes me back to one of those first scumtells I was introduced to here at MotK. If you're doing Townie things, you're likely Town. If you go out of your way to do Townie things, you're likely to be Scum. And Rou taking the time to drop the Anthony case because there were enough votes on it to prod Suwako definitely fits into the latter.

The confession in the first part of #369 is bad. Why are you continually trying to defend yourself with missing VgT that you even had to use that reason. I've done similar things in previous games but I never actually admit them in game. It seriously looks like you're trying to wipe the stigma of missing VgT off you, but the thing is that it never goes away. Other Townies have to deal with it too so it's a little telling you've taken a lot of effort to do the same, especially in periods where you haven't had a lot of votes on you. Your #547 in Day 3 continues this and yet you get on Affinity's case for not talking about VgT after a certain point in Day 1. Hypocrisy.

---

In Affinity's #160, I'm not sure I see Affinity ignoring VgT being as bad as Rou makes it out although it's still a blotch. I think at least Serp and Rou look actively worse, for ranking it #2 and #6 respectively as we've seen Townies actively miss it. Also wanted to point out his switching to Rou in #419. Makes all the right points which I'm only finally acknowledging. It also was not advantageous if he is Scum because it drops Anthony into a tie with Tenshi at 3, and brings Rou up to 2 along with Serp unless Rou also happens to be Town. At this point, both Affinity and Rou have been going after each other and with Scum gaining momentum in numbers, I'm not thinking they're buddies, especailly if Serp is also Scum with them. I have far less of a problem with his posts than Rou and I feel he's been more actively scumhunting rather than worrying about spending time on defense.

---

Don't have too much of a read on Epiphas but there is early defense/waffling on VgT and Rou. Would look bad if Rou flips Scum. His #90 is a little contradictory, half defending Rou and then tacking on that Rou needs to chime in more with ideas/scumhunting. I knew he voted VgT early, but now that I read it again, it's a rather sudden reversal from his earlier views and comes on quite strong, maybe almost too strong. The point I made about Rou/Sodium interaction above gives some suggestions they are a possible scumpair along with VgT. Since my main suspicion is dependent more on scumbuddy flips rather than Epiphas/Sodium's own posts, I'll leave this case for now and revisit it later.

Pesco has pressed Rou constantly through the game for a variety of good reasons in addition to voting VgT. About the only thing that is really odd is that he never actually votes Rou

Spoiler:

Cut: until just now,

but I'll wait for a Rou flip before fully judging that.

UK has done the same as Pesco above, but has actually voted Rou on several occasions. Seeing nothing wrong with her atm so she's not on my radar unless we see a Rou Town flip.

Nietz probably should post more, but I think he was the most crucial swing vote in Day 1 to VgT. Looks quite good in that regards and I haven't had an issue with his posts despite some people thinking so in Day 1. I am not going to press him at the moment.

K4U was a similar swing vote for VgT earlier in Day 1 and I also am not having as much of a problem with her posts.

I am not getting Suwako's choices at all right now. Figurative Vote on Affinity is weird, for misconstruing certain parts of Affinity's thoughts on him. Also, I don't see how Pesco's comment about votestealers being a Town role makes Pesco scummy. I actually think it could be either/or as I touched on it at the end of my #434. In essence, I'm not going to worry about it or who that role has affected. Your reasons for being suspicious of both Affinity and Pesco are not that good imo. Also, saying "at least one of Serp/Affinity is just a terrible townie, but I ain't really up for betting on which, kill both," is a fucking lousy statement. I'm not sure if Serp is planning on going for you again today, but you're sure validating any reason he may have for doing so.

---

Still down for the Serp lynch who hasn't even given us a token post yet. I know he's busy with Suika Fortress, but this is pretty much lurking which he even railed about in previous games. Just not seeing him act as a Townie. Pegging Rou as second to Serp now. Depending on flips in the future, I'd probably pursue either Sodium or Affinity.

[Pesco]

Skimmed Affinity's posts in isolation. Seems fairly consistent, but I'm not happy with my read. I mean I need to look at it more carefully when the text isn't blurring in front of my eyes.

Mostly fairly consistent stuff, I think his attacks on Rou yesterday look okay.

So yeah. Waiting on Serp for

Well, drat.  I stayed up too late playing Suika Fortress, dozed off, and forgot that this game's deadline is so early in the morning.  There's no time to write up a full recap, but I'm not getting lynched and I really don't expect to get NK'd, so I'll save it for tomorrow.

[FinnKaenbyou]

You know what? I give up. I'm out of defenses. I keep screwing up so often, that I'm really left with only one explanation for all of this.

I'm a moron.

Trying to act as though I can recover is just getting Town tangled up in an argument it doesn't need. I'm an idiot, deal with it.

The irritating thing is I'd be sort of okay with this is I was scum, because if scum didn't make mistakes the game would be unwinnable, but I'm not. I'm basically singlehandedly screwing the Town over, so maybe the best solution is to take myself out of the equation as soon as possible.

Lynch me if you think I'm scummier than Serp is. I'm Town, but obviously none of you believe that. Even if you did, I'd be a liability at Lylo anyway given that I apparently can't play this game for shit. >_>
I'm actually incredibly tempted to self-vote, but that's just plain working against your faction. I'm tired of trying to rectify my screwups, because every mitake is followed by another. If being an idiot is a scumtell, hang me high.

I'm really sorry, Edible. I'm having a really hard time IRL right now, and all the stress from Mafia is just making it worse. Or maybe this is just the final conclusive piece of evidence that I'm actually one of the worst players here and I just haven't had the nerve to accept it.

Now I've spent so long writing this post I'm probably going to miss the bus for my next lecture. Joy.

[Kilgamayan]

Vote Count: Beyond the Rim Edition
Serpentarius (3): Kiro, Sodium, Kitten4U
Affinity (1): Roukanken
Roukanken (2): Affinity, pesco

Not voting: UncertainKitten, Nietz, Serpentarius, Suwako Moriya

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. You have a little over 44 hours remaining.

[Nietz]

Okay, no matter how much I think, I'm still with the same suspects as yesterday, Serp, Rou and Aff. So far I'm not really sure which of Rou or Affinity would be in second place, but Serpentarius is a clear leader. Nothing he said D2 made him look better, and looks like he was just hoping Anthony or Milk to make better lynches out of themselves (which actually happened). The fact that he hasn't even posted despite being the main case today gives me the impression he's just hoping for his case to go away somehow.

##Vote Serpentarius (L-2, right)

Also, where's UK?

[Sodium]

Or maybe this is just the final conclusive piece of evidence that I'm actually one of the worst players here and I just haven't had the nerve to accept it.

Roukan. You can't be the worst player when we have our good friend Wrathie here. Oh, and various other people too. No Offense Wrathie, in case you're reading this.

Oh, and AtE post. Rou's meta'd "I'm an idiot" post. Does it every game, null tell, or possibly meta abuse, but I doubt that.

Kitten4u re-read:
Most important thing is that I don't think Kitten is scum because:
VGT vote to move VGT above Suwako
Day 2 huntan.
Only thing really wrong is the Meta Clear/Suspicion Post, but I doubt that'll be worth anything unless one of the people in said post gets a flip. That being Pesco and I.

Pesco re-read:
Lets see, first wagon(expected), fight with VGT, votes VGT, dislikes Rou's play this game, votes Rou Day 3. I don't see Pesco being scum after his scuffle with VGT, and if Rou's scum, I'd say that Pesco's pretty townie, unless he's trying to kill all his team mates.

Serp: needs to post. If he's trying to survive, he's not doing it properly.

Affinity: You didn't talk about a flipped scum much during Day 1. That's scummy. However, everything else you did wasn't really scummy at the time of my post. Also, why do you think Suwako is scum, despite how he's basically confirmed from Day 1?

Roukan: What happened to "scumhunting=best defense"? =V Oh, and the "I'm willing to admit x mistake" doesn't really mean much.

Nietz: Any other opinions? That post was essentially your previous post, except more detailed and with a vote. And asking where UK is.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Roukan: What happened to "scumhunting=best defense"? =V Oh, and the "I'm willing to admit x mistake" doesn't really mean much.

Considering that all of my efforts at scumhunting simply cause me to make more, dumber mistakes, it's practically at the point where not trying is actually better for Town since you're getting less distracted by my stupid arguments. T_T

[Serp]

Alright, I'm here for my promised post.

Before I talk about which case I prefer, I have one gripe about Kiro:  D2, you said that the bunch of early kneejerk votes on Suwako could well be townie motivated, but that since VgameT was scum, his scumbuddies would be most likely pile on the most plausible townie wagon to save him.  But, aside from VgameT himself, the last three people to jump on Suwako's wagon have all flipped town.  If the early votes on Suwako were unlikely to be scum since there were more plausible mislynches to go after, and the later votes on Suwako are almost all proven not scum, then the wagon on Suwako looks like it was made almost entirely of townies.  In that case, why are you clearing Suwako?

As for Rou, I don't see anything scummy in his D1 conduct.  D2, though, he started to come apart.  Firstly, his case on Sodiphas would've been bad even if VgameT's vote wasn't an OMGUS, it's a standard tactic for doomed scum to tie themselves to a random townie by way of vote.  See:  Zengar, last game, with his vote on me.  Secondly, Rou stays on me for "being inactive."  I dropped the ball late D2, and I've taken too long to open up D3, I admit, but on D1 I was producing plenty of content.  Thirdly, he tries to backtrack on his Suwako vote, claiming that he didn't really think that Suwako was scummiest, in his 367.  Fourthly, he treats being early on the Suwako wagon as a scumtell, despite the fact that if he saw legitimate reason to do so, he should expect others to see legitimate reason to do so.  Now, he collapses and throws in the towel.  I'm hoping that he puts it together before the end of the day, whether we end up lynching him or not.

As to Suwako, I was certainly tunneling on him yesterday.  Most of that probably came from irritation at people giving him a full clear due to no action of his own.  At the time, there was no reason to believe that Tenshi and Anthony were town and Kiro's stated theory was wrong.  I should have settled for voicing a "not clear" opinion of him, but I was too caught up in my D1 case.  Now, though, I think it's pretty clear that VgameT's flip doesn't clear him, and the flips we've gotten so far from his wagon don't clear him.  So, let's take another look.

What jumps out at me about his 207 is that he dismisses the cases on Anthony, UncertainKitten, and VgameT, all together.  Yet, he also singles out the VgameT as only being meaningless "for the most part," and keeps his throwaway vote on Pesco.  This was while VgameT was at four votes, and there were a couple of runners-up at two votes each.  261 is another blanket dismissal those three cases.  274 he jumps from a throwaway vote on Pesco to a throwaway vote on Kilga, and then tries to derail the VgameT wagon by calling its premises into question over the next few posts.

D2 we don't have much to work with from him, since that was when we all decided to cull the lurkers.  The justification for going after Angel Milk was fine, of course, but since that ended up resulting in a mislynch, it's a null tell.  And D3, he puts suspicion on myself, Roukanken, Pesco, and Affinity.  Keeping your options open, eh?  The point that at least one of myself and Affinity must be town, so let's lynch them both with presumably only two mislynches before a scum victory is, as has been pointed out, bad.

##Vote: Suwako Moriya

Roukanken would be my secondary case, if I absolutely must switch to secure a lynch other than myself.  Coming into this day, I was seriously considering pulling a Zaknut from GWU and letting myself get mislynched after putting a bunch of analysis out there just so the town would have better odds and more information in LyLo, but on second thought, I'd rather lynch the scum in front of me.

[Affinity]

@Rou:

No you're not one of the worst players on the site; you had your moments of glory as scum that I remember.  However, you're not consistent and prone to these sort of breakdowns.  I'm sorry if I have been too forward with accusations, but no, you still have to play the game and vote who you find scummiest despite mistakes.  Like chess; my opponent won with a rook down.  But yeah you are still scummy unless you can do something useful.

---

@Sodium:

Because without D1, Suwako would be totally scummy by my book.  Reactionary scumhunting, ignoring of questions, expert piggybacker, playstyle advocater... all these manage to counterbalance the town cred that he got and make me consider some sort of weird gambit on scum's part, and that's difficult.  Fact that most of the Suwako bandwagon has already flipped town too doesn't make this too crazy a possibility.  Your token reread is okay, but too many rereads and too reliant on day one actions without the analysis of day 2.  Lots of maybes too.

---

Nietz's vote is really, really lazy.  Wasn't really aware that me and Rou were your secondary suspects too, but okay.  More thoughts on why me and Rou are scum please.  Will read Serp later.

[UncertainJakutten]

Also, where's UK?

Besides sick of reading this game? Around. I might post before I go to bed tonight. Yesterday I was not online at all though.

[FinnKaenbyou]

my opponent won with a rook down.

Only because you made mistakes afterwards. With perfect play, there's no way in hell you should lose when you're a rook up unless you get an insane positional advantage for it. As in forced mate.

Hence, it's meta-gambit time. I have no idea what's going on in terms on content, so my only hope is to look beyond...which takes me right back to my original suspect. Yes, I'm disregarding everything my old cases were running from, but yeah. >_>

##Unvote: Affinity
Vote: Suwako Moriya

Serpentarius has been trying far, far too hard to go for Suwako. Presenting it here as his D3 case when it's basically the big reason he's being voted for is really the kicker. It shows that he really doesn't seem that concerned with his own survival, rather with focusing on his own suspect. Note also that he went for Suwako ahead of the two obvious lynches, Anthony and Tenshi.

There's tunneling to promote a scum cause, and there's tunneling with good intentions. That at least has me worried that he might not be as obvscum as I thought.

And I never thought hard enough about the situation. VgT was acting too obviously scummy, still staying neutral well after he'd been told 'get an opinion or we're bandwagonning you'. At the same time, Suwako was simply disregarding the entirety of the D1 wagons, but defended VgT when the time came to it, if only weakly. Later days he's posted little of use and attacked Kilga, who was one of the first guys to attack VgT. Surely as confirmed Town he should be trying his best to get his opinion out?

Think about it. Two players, neither of whom are especially new (indeed the cries of VgT being a noob should have caught my eyes earlier), both making relatively obvious scummy plays and making no effort to do anything about them. We assumed it was too good to be true, and the death of one caused the other to get cleared.

If I take the VgT case to be as townie as it is, then I'm only left with two real suspects. Namely, Serp and Affinity, and attacking them mostly for being on a wagon we're assuming is wrong might be arguable.

So, to conclude, I'm giving up on trying to go through this game page by page. I could sit here forever arguing semantics, playing by the book and getting called out on every little mistake, or I could go for the big move and go for the guy who's been scummy all game and got cleared on something which is a little too convenient. I've been doing the former all game, and it hasn't worked out for me, so it's time to give in to base instinct.

By this logic, Pesco raising the VgT wagon upward is no longer a clear. I don't have to feel bad about going for him anymore. Last scum...I'm not sure about, but this is all hanging off of Suwako being scum anyway.

tl;dr - If you're going to be wrong, be wrong and be whole-hearted about it.

[Kiro]

Serp: when I said early votes on Suwako, I'm really only referring to the first vote: Rou. The wagon had to get kickstarted somehow and with Suwako intentionally being uncooperative, you could figure the first vote might come from a Townie.

But since you've finally come out with your post and a vote, time to put forward some points I hadn't mentioned yet. I've been thinking about the 2 NKs that occurred last night. A second kill suggests a Vig or an SK. First off, Kilga was almost certainly not the target of a Town Vig. That's just too ridiculous to even suggest. The funny thing is that I don't think Zakeri would be the target of a Town Vig either. The only one who would do that is Rou as Zakeri was the "lynch he could not have." But I'm almost certain with the Day 2 double Town flip of Anthony and Tenshi, no Townie Vig would intentionally take out either of the 2 people voting for Serp in Day 2. Rather, any Town Vig there would probably have shot Serp instead as there was more information to be gained from it and he was #2 or #3 on pretty much everyone's list. Short of it is, I think there's an SK or at least Scum with 1 Vig in the game.

Furthermore, I can see Suwako as an SK. He acts up in the beginning but gets a pass from people like Kilga for admittedly decent reasons while riling up certain players. Plays daringly and gets a clear when the opposing wagon is Scum. Everyone says he's all anti-Town since then but the Day 1 Occam's Razor scenario is holding them back. But I don't think it should anymore as it's entirely possible for anyone to pursue Suwako in Day 1 if he were SK with Suwako banking on surviving. Heck, his lack of a self-defense vote against VgT is beyond weird and doesn't fit as Townie play no mather how apathetic he was.

Pretty much, I'm still convinced there was at least one other "scum" on Suwako's wagon as they would make "some" effort to save VgT that way if Suwako is an SK. Serp is not cleared for pursuing a possible Suwako as SK because it also tries to save VgT at the same time. Rou and Affinity are still there as well. Pretty much waited for Serp's case today before bringing this up and it makes Serp look better and Suwako look worse. I have to do a more thorough reread now that Serp has continued to push Suwako in what would presumably be suicidal for Mafia Serp to do. The last possibility is that he and Suwako are buddies anyways and that Serp is sacrificing himself to pretty much ensures Suwako rides clear to endgame. Rou and Affinity may or may not fit into this equation.

There's too much weirdness with Suwako now and I need to do another reread and consider other people's comments to the above theory to re-decide on what's the best lynch for today.

@Mods: Are Scum and possible SKs required to kill every night? I won't clarify this. <3

Cut by Rou: I'm surprised in a possibly good way that you decided to switch to Suwako before this post came out. Gonna go home shortly and get that reread in.

[Nietz]

Well, I'm interested in both Rou's and Kiro's theories, especially because I've pretty much out of new insights on the situation.
I'm waiting to see how the involved parties respond to it.

[Kiro]

Nietz: I think you should provide more than a token statement like that. The whole thing is somewhat convoluted. And in the case Suwako flips Mafia, pretty much nobody can be cleared anymore. If you have time to toss out that quick 2 line sentence, I think you have time to give us your updated opinions on who you think is Scum. After all, Serp has finally replied now so there ought to be something you can talk about.

[Suwako Moriya]

Rou.  Come on.
Let me recap today for you:

Me:  "Serp is pretty scummy and the obvious lynch, but there's something fishy going on with Pesco and Affinity."
Affinity: *horrible arguments throwing mud at me and Rou*
Me: "Okay yeah Affinity/Pesco needs to be resolved, the Rou case is BS"
Two people vote Rou.  Who are they?  Surprise, surprise, Affinity and Pesco!  HMMM.
Rou: "OH GOD A TRAIN ON ME I'M A HORRIBLE PLAYER WHAT DO I DO I'M SO SCARED THINKING IS HARD SO I'MMA GO BACK TO MY DAY 1 CASE"
and votes me.  What.

- Serp should have been lynched yesterday, Anthony being pushed over him was BS (and the Angel Milk modkill was botched horribly but there's nothing to do about that except shake fists at Edible.  The alternative would have been worse for you, deal with it.)  This rings no bells to anyone?

- Scum are being quite obvious with their killing and voteblocking patterns, taking out the intelligent players (UU, Kilga) and throwing voteblocks on the people they want lynched (Anthony, me).  This rings no bells to anyone?

There's no response I can make to Rou's "case" on me because it is not really a case, as he himself has said.  I beg reconsideration.  Serp's and Affinity's at least have arguments... albeit from the two scummiest players alive, and quite horrible ones that boil down to "Suwako MOVED CASES and CHANGED SUSPICIONS as time passed!"  Why yes, I certainly did, this is a good thing to do, I thought that was self evident? 

But I guess you can never underestimate MotK Mafia. :eyeroll: