Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F

[DarkAtma]

Try page page 12 for earliest spoilers (characters), things are spread out on the following pages.

Many thanks, found what i was looking for at page 15

[Kirin no Sora]

If anything, English patch-wise, we'll be able to have some of the stuff translated ahead of time if anyone wants to work on that so that once the inevitable week or so of early bug fix patches comes out, we could do a patch reasonably quickly, depending on how things go. I'm sorta busy with college and stuff, but if I have free time I might try my hand at some translations (even if they're generally not as good as, say, Deranged's translations, plus I can't do dialogue, but I think I might be able to do item descriptions and such).

On that note, for version D' of the trial, I made a new text dump, and this time edited out the garbage. Found a reference in the list of relay points to one leading to 21F, which affirms my suspicions about 21F changing upon some event happening after B4F.

I could just translate the entire thing wholesale, although given that I'll be using google translate for the task, and I've found out that there's a limit as to how much of a document that it can translate at once(based on the calculations made from where it cuts off with the help of Notepad++, I've found that I would have to split the blasted file into 36 parts to get google to translate it all, and then copy and paste the translations back together again... -_-; )...

[Serela]

Okay, here's the four character's new skills in the second trial for anyone who can read moonrunes to parse if they want to.

YOUMU: http://puu.sh/shtYZ.png
KOGASA: http://puu.sh/shu4u.png http://puu.sh/shu5B.png
KEINE: http://puu.sh/shu7D.png (Also, Keine gets 42% MAG boost with Mokou now instead of 30%)
MEILING: http://puu.sh/shucw.png

[Kirin no Sora]

Okay, here's the four character's new skills in the second trial for anyone who can read moonrunes to parse if they want to.

YOUMU: http://puu.sh/shtYZ.png
KOGASA: http://puu.sh/shu4u.png http://puu.sh/shu5B.png
KEINE: http://puu.sh/shu7D.png (Also, Keine gets 42% MAG boost with Mokou now instead of 30%)
MEILING: http://puu.sh/shucw.png

I think that I found the relevant skills in the text dump. Bear in mind that I'm posting this exactly as I found it in the translation...

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0x00a7db40
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This effect will not be demonstrated when "Super water repellent tarnish ghost" is acquired.
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0x00a7db94
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During combat, reduce damage from enemies in fear by 40%.
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0x00a7dbd4
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Tang umbrella of the surprising spot
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0x00a7 dbf 0
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The power of attack behavior rises 33%.
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0x00a7dc18
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Only in case of attacking a fearing enemy during battle
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0x00a7dc48
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Ultra water repellent ghost
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

0x00a7dc64
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Chinese Queen's Qigong" buff maximum stack number is (SLv).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

0x00a7dca8
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When concentrating, HP's (HP buff) is recovered instead of total consumption of "Chinese Queen's Qigong" Buff.
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0x00a7dd10
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At the time of attack, the power increases (buff number * 10)% instead of totally consuming "Chinese kid's qigong" buff.
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0x00a7dd78
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When a turn comes around to himself, stack "buff with Chinese kid's qigong" buff by himself.
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0x00a7ddd4
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Chinese Chinese girls qigong
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0x00a7dde8
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"Fame of swordsmen" buff disappears, its own HP decreases by 20%, and the power of its attack behavior rises by 50%.
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0x00a 7de50
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When "Build of swordsmen" Buff is attached and HP makes an attack in a state of complete comfort,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

0x00a7dea8
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When concentrating, give himself a "fighter of swordsmen" buff.
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0x00a7dee0
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"Accumulation of history and sword" "History accumulation / mirror" The maximum stack number of buff is up to total (SLv) together with sword and shield.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

0x00a7df50
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"Accumulation and history of history" * 10% increase in attack magical power, "history accumulation / mirror" * 12% protection mental increase effect.
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0x00a7dfc0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Three kinds of Sacred Sculpture Mirror" will increase the "accumulation of history / mirror" buffing effect by 1.
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0x00a7e018
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Three kinds of Sacred Sword" is used, the "accumulation and history of history" buffing effect increases by 1.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

0x00a7e06c
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Accumulation of history
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---

Presuming that the "fighter of swordsmen" bit is Youmu's, I think that it's safe to say that my hope was answered, but not in the way that I had been expecting, for better or worse...

Still, I'm actually glad that I had the good fortune in finding the relevant info so quickly.

[Serela]

So Youmu's is a modified Grand Incantation after all, but it sounds like you might need to be full hp...? Google translate only halfway gets the job done, as usual. It does fine for Kogasa, at least. Keine's is kinda hard to parse but I can sorta get the gist of it...

Throw Guardian on Youmu for efficient concentration and combo with her "buffs at full mp" stuff and she might actually kinda work, after that. It's only 50% increase though, so I'm still not sure she's actually -good-... it helps though.

Kogasa has an infinite corridor skill that doubles her damage to fear'd enemies, so she can actually get like, 266% damage on fearing enemies? She's really turning into a super fear slayer. The damage reduction one might actually be more useful, though.

Meiling is already godlike so any bonus is just icing on the cake, and Keine... well, it's interesting to see how she develops in general, so I'm curious exactly how that skill works. Between the dev really trying to make her offense-capable with Mokou and Byakuren no longer totally dominating buff land, she might be relevant. Actually, she has a godlike infinite corridor skill that basically makes anyone an Instant Attacker, so yeah, becoming a more interesting character is definitely nice to hear on her. (Ugh it's gonna be so hard to make a party after infinite corridor, there's so many incredible skills people get after that!!)

edit:Hrm... it occurs to me in the first edition plus disk demo we didn't have infinite corridor skills for the 8 new characters. Since the corridor is in now, I wonder if now, the data would include...

[Deranged]

Google's more or less got it right, but cleaning it up:

Okay, here's the four character's new skills in the second trial for anyone who can read moonrunes to parse if they want to.

YOUMU: http://puu.sh/shtYZ.png

Swordmaster's Spirit
The user gains the [Swordmaster's Spirit] effect when [Concentrate] is used.
When the user attacks with full HP and [Swordmaster's Spirit] active,
the attack's power increases by 50%, the [Swordmaster's Spirit] effect is consumed, and HP decreases by 20%.

KOGASA: http://puu.sh/shu4u.png

Ultra Water-repellent Ghost Umbrella
Increases damage of all offensive actions performed on targets inflicted with TRR by 33%.

http://puu.sh/shu5B.png

Astonishing Ghost Umbrella
Decreases damage taken by targets inflicted with TRR by 40%. Ineffective if [Ultra Water-repellent Ghost Umbrella] is already learned.

KEINE: http://puu.sh/shu7D.png

History Accumulation
When [Three Treasures - Sword] is used, the [History Accumulation - Sword] counter increases by 1.
When [Three Treasures - Mirror] is used, the [History Accumulation - Mirror] counter increases by 1.
[History Accumulation - Sword] increases ATK/MAG by (counter * 10%) and "History Accumulation - Mirror"
increases DEF/MND by (counter * 12%). The two counters go up a combined maximum of (SLv).

[It actually says a combined maximum of the Sword and Shield effects up to SLv, but unless Keine has even more new skills, I assume 3peso meant Mirror there.]

MEILING: http://puu.sh/shucw.png

Chinese Girl's Qigong
The [Chinese Girl's Qigong] counter increases by 1 when the user gets a turn.
When attacking, the power of the attack increases by (counter * 10%), and the counter is reset to 0.
When using the "Concentrate" command, recovers the user's HP by (counter * 10%) and the counter is reset to 0.
The counter goes up to a maximum of (SLv).

[Serela]

Oh man, Keine's is amazing. Between her base stat boost infinite corridor skill, +41% MAG with Mokou, +50% fuggin mag from her new passive, she could hit something retarded like 30+ base mag and be throwing subclass skills around like tactical nuclear warheads. You can also go the other way with defense and make her into a super wall, which combined with her 9999 atb swapping passive, is also amazing. Keine's gone from "meh, okay-ish support, good with Mokou" to YES, YES, YEEEEEES! in plus disk.

Since Youmu's doesn't require maxhp max or anything after all, she might actually be good now... but it's only 50%, her moves were only as strong as normal character's before, and she still has to concentrate every other turn. On the upside, she also will get +12% buffs to all stats every turn. Guardian is a highly desirable subclass to cut down concentration delay but it doesn't give her much other than efficient concentrate and "reduced damage with 4 characters in front"... she might still desire permanent +100% attack and such from Warrior subclass or new attacks in plus disk subclasses.

Well, wait... Monk helps keep all her buffs up and slightly helps with concentrate PLUS her attacks, with both combined it's... actually about half of the value of Guardian's efficient concentration, with better other passives and Iron Mountain Charge. If you use Slash of Eternity it's about 2/3rds as good instead of half as good, but I'm still not certain if SoE is worth in most situations- the better DEF pierce is relevant though. 16% buffs per turn is enough for permanent 100% if a strategist is out, though, pretty considerable and really helps make Youmu a competitive team pick.

[Superteletubbies64]

Swordmaster's spirit is pretty useless IMO because you mudt spend 2 turns on it, you may not take damage, lose 20% health and the increase in damage is only 50%

And it sucks that both of kogasa's new skills can't be used in conjunction

Any other new skills?

[Serela]

There are no other new skills announced in changelog. There was a few in the other plus trial from... january? Alice gets 40% def/mnd ignore (JEEZ!), Cirno deals a big irresistable speed debuff to all on death, Utsuho got buffed (Giga Flare is WAY better and Hell's Tokamak was buffed), Flandre was buffed for some reason too (Forbidden Fruits way better, Starbow Break ignores half of defense for some insane reason dear god), and Nazrin gets a choice between higher MAG or higher SPD, and also gets Extra Attack to help boost her into a relevant character (combined with her Byakuren skills she might be worth using now).

Youmu's new one may still be worth it because it allows her to take advantake of Meikyo Shisui, giving her a good chunk of passive buffs every single turn (Since it checks for max mp when the turn starts, not when it ends, you always get it if concentrating every other turn). The 20% hp damage isn't a big deal because A.Youmu's fairly bulky apart from mnd and B.She regens 10% hp every turn. She actually breaks even and it just "negates" the regen. Plus, three of her skills have massive mp costs that pretty much force her to concentrate or switch out after one cast, even well into the game.

However, it IS sad the damage boost is only 50%. Since it eats half her turns I was kinda hoping for more like 100%. You have to decide whether her passive buffs are strong enough to justify using Youmu at all; with Monk and a strategist giving her permanent +100%, maybe, but...

Once she gets her infinite corridor skill she's got a big damage boost (up to 110%) as her HP gets lower, so the self-damage actually becomes helpful, and she'll have a significant damage boost that again might help her become relevant. (Her other skill is +10% all stats if Yuyuko is on your team, even in backlines)

Hmmm... there's apparently THREE tiers of stat boosting in Plus Disk (adding presumably two more ontop of the two we have now- ______  Boost passives and gems) so it may be worth considering that the scale between characters with high/low base stats might become a lot different in Plus. People with good passives/formulas but somewhat lower base stats will likely catch up in usefulness or even surpass people who normally win from a somewhat higher base. (I'd say this means good things about offensive minoriko, but she also has pretty underwhelming infinite corridor skills... she seriously does have some potential though with her hp/mp regen and magic buff passive. Hmm, those crazy expensive subclass skills)



EDIT:Tested a couple skills.
Mari/Renko's Sealing Club passive STILL does not boost your stats. I wonder if 3peso even knows? It's not too hard to not notice the stats since you have to really look at numbers and compare them in order to tell.
However, Maribel's Ability to Meddle with Boundaries does make her buffs decay slower now. Previously I don't believe that skill worked, either. Still, Maribel could seriously use Sealing Club in order to try to be a legitimately good character- she's seriously borderline, with a lot of good skills and a nice stat layout, but not enough oomph in any area to actually be worth a party slot. Since Renko is a -great- tank (And maintennance ensures she will continue to get more amazing) sealing club is a stat boost you can get a ton of use out of... if only it worked!!

Hmm, Maribel could do really well with the new magic-user subclass I think, since she has Grand Incantation... the spells are very expensive, but incantation mostly does away with the cost issue, and Maribel could use more useful attack variety. Chaotic Quadruple Barrier is okay, but not that special vs. most bosses, and if they resist it she's only got some so-so support ability. This also goes for Patchouli if the subclass attacks are good enough- Patch even gets an mp cost reduction in the infinite corridor for all those expensive subclass skills. (She certainly doesn't need her innate ones any cheaper by that point...)

[Kirin no Sora]

Youmu's new one may still be worth it because it allows her to take advantake of Meikyo Shisui, giving her a good chunk of passive buffs every single turn (Since it checks for max mp when the turn starts, not when it ends, you always get it if concentrating every other turn). The 20% hp damage isn't a big deal because A.Youmu's fairly bulky apart from mnd and B.She regens 10% hp every turn. She actually breaks even and it just "negates" the regen. Plus, three of her skills have massive mp costs that pretty much force her to concentrate or switch out after one cast, even well into the game.

However, it IS sad the damage boost is only 50%. Since it eats half her turns I was kinda hoping for more like 100%. You have to decide whether her passive buffs are strong enough to justify using Youmu at all; with Monk and a strategist giving her permanent +100%, maybe, but...

Once she gets her infinite corridor skill she's got a big damage boost (up to 110%) as her HP gets lower, so the self-damage actually becomes helpful, and she'll have a significant damage boost that again might help her become relevant. (Her other skill is +10% all stats if Yuyuko is on your team, even in backlines)

My question is why Youmu needs to self damage herself at all just to do good damage. Honestly, Grand Incantation does a far better job with no HP loss and half the skill cost, so why this?

If anything, I would swap Dexterity out for a renamed Grand Incantation(Intense Focus would probably be a good name for it), put this as her post game skill instead of Swordsmaster's Spirit...

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Wielder of Hakurouken
Skill Cost: 20
Max Level: 2

Whenever the skill holder completes an action, add (SLv * 800) to the skill holder's timebar.

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...and add this along with it...

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Wielder of Rokukanken
Skill Cost: 20
Max Level: 2

When the user concentrates, gain a buff "Readied Stance". When the user attacks while having this buff, (SLv * 12)% damage of the attack is added after defenses are calculated, and the buff is removed.

---

Of course, that's just my thought on the matter. Sorry if I'm annoying anyone with this.

As a side note, the Swordsmaster's spirit skill is making me think of the Swordmaster subclass, and looking at it, maybe it might fit Youmu?

[Serela]

If Swordmaster and it's magic counterparts are just upgrades to the original warrior/sorceror classes as they look like they might be, Youmu could use that and still have a nice benefit to her ATK buff stat, which is her most important one. I still think Monk might be a better fit for her though with a DEF piercing skill, all buffs up to stack on meikyo shisui, and lower delays- especially since she won't get the attack buff on concentration turns in the other class. (It mostly evens out, but basically you maintain your atk buff whilst sacrificing everything else to gain a couple more attack skills. Not an entirely bad trade, but Youmu's got a diverse skillset to start with- unless you need to hit weakness.)

And honestly, if you aren't going to use meikyo shisui/swordmaster's spirit, there's not much point to using Youmu, because most other ATK-based characters will completely outclass her- the only thing Youmu has left at that point is 10% hp regen. You could use her like that anyway if you like and she'll work out okay enough, but there won't be any tactical benefit. This has been the issue with her from the start.

On the upside, her infinite corridor skill really might redeem her because her 20% self-damage turns directly into more damage on her hits. Yes, your ideas might work better if they were in the game, but we've got to deal with what Youmu actually has; and once you unlock "Extra damage as your HP goes down, up to +110% damage", that 20% selfdamage on attacking starts looking pretty helpful and Youmu starts looking like an actual decent party choice.

edit:Hmmm... Youmu has desperation too. 25% all stats up if she's 60% hp or below. So with her new skill, 80% or less HP would be sufficient to trigger her phase... that might be nice. She has high HP and good def, so she might be able to get away with it.

[Kirin no Sora]

Yes, your ideas might work better if they were in the game, but we've got to deal with what Youmu actually has; and once you unlock "Extra damage as your HP goes down, up to +110% damage", that 20% selfdamage on attacking starts looking pretty helpful and Youmu starts looking like an actual decent party choice.

...you're right. I really shouldn't be whining about what isn't there. Still, it bugs me that Youmu needs a skill from the infinite corridor to become a party member that's worth bothering with. It makes me wonder how many people will bother with Youmu at that point, though...

Edit: I didn't see your edit about Desperation until after I posted. Doesn't help that the preview doesn't tell me about edited post or show me that a post had been edited at all even after pressing the preview button...

[Serela]

Yeah, it's sorta unfortunate, but it's at least a lot better from before when she was probably the most underwhelming party member in the game. With her new Swordmaster's Spirit skill or whatnot she should be usable until then at least, albeit not amazing.

[RegalStar]

+50% fuggin mag from her new passive

How did you get 50%? That skill's max level is 3 and each level of sword gives 10%.

[DarkAtma]

if we had a character tier list, which ones would be the best and who the worsts? i was thinking of Tanks,Damage dealers and buffers/debuffers

Category:best/Worst

Tank:Meiling/Momiji
Damage:Nitori/Utsuho
Buffer:Byakuren/Eirin

cant give an opinion on debuffs, i dont tend to use those

[jester147]

if we had a character tier list, which ones would be the best and who the worsts? i was thinking of Tanks,Damage dealers and buffers/debuffers

Category:best/Worst

Tank:Meiling/Momiji
Damage:Nitori/Utsuho
Buffer:Byakuren/Eirin

cant give an opinion on debuffs, i dont tend to use those

How would you tier this game with the subclasses anyway? Cause with subclasses it will be over 500 combinations.

[Kurovalia]

If they're going to increase Kogasa's damage against fear'd enemies, I do hope more bosses will be susceptible to fear (even if they lower her damage against feared enemies), nearly all the ones towards the main end game were immune to fear in my experience which made Kogasa just a decent attacker (Apart from her godlike ability to debuff mind). That being said, when the bosses could be feared wew she was pretty handy with that +2 mana and self stat buff on hit

[Kirin no Sora]

How would you tier this game with the subclasses anyway? Cause with subclasses it will be over 500 combinations.

By looking at their skill sets and how they can facilitate being a Tank, Damage Dealer(DPS, Nuker), Assist(Healer, Buffer), and Saboteur(Ailments, Debuffs). Sub Classes don't change what's in a character's main skill set, and some skills do very well for doing specific things, like Sheer Force(Damage Dealer, Saboteur), Accelerate(Damage Dealer, Buffer), Instant Attack(Damage Dealer, Healer), Eyes that Perceive Reality(Damage Dealer, Tank), and so on.

[Nyxnyx]

What do you mean by saboteur?

[elminster1372]

Keep also in mind that, unlike TH1, in TH2 there are "group skills" which means a char can't be judged alone. For example, when you consider Mystia alone she's average at best. However, Team9 as a group is among the best if not THE best group in TH2. It has high stats and balanced roles (heals, debuffs, varied offense, piercing attacks, etc). Other characters, like Yuyuko or Yuuka, could be good but suffer from the lack of such group skills (or, in the case of Maribel, she has it but it's not working <.< I REALLY hope it'll be fixed in the Plus Disk, along with Ability to Meddle with Boundaries)

[MLG Remilia Scarlet]

I am suck at this type of game
but
whatever

[Superteletubbies64]

What do you mean by saboteur?

Probably hexer

[Serela]

How did you get 50%? That skill's max level is 3 and each level of sword gives 10%.

WHOOPS. Looked at the wrong skill. Still, it's a very powerful skill- +30% atk/mag or +36% def/mnd.

How would you tier this game with the subclasses anyway? Cause with subclasses it will be over 500 combinations.

Probably don't need to get subclass-specific for the list; Hina's obviously a debuffer queen whether or not she's a Hexer or something else. Also about the list, Meiling's not really a tank in LoT2... but she's an insanely effective bulky damage dealer. Top tier on that for sure! Utsuho is also significantly buffed in Plus, with a much stronger Giga Flare, better Tokamak, useful Infinite Corridor skills and better scaling postgame due to more stat increase items to help with her bulk in tandem with Fighting Spirit, unlimited overheating (corridor skill- no mp increase with overheat or self-buffs on nuclear reaction), and easier trigger on family passive. So, definitely not the worst anymore. The other bad egg, Youmu, has been buffed up too.

It's also worth keeping in mind glass cannons who you've been using as gamblers are nerfed because gambler was severely nerfed as well. Between Flan's personal buffs and the various glass cannon's infinite corridor skills, they're still good, though... but they're not quite as silly as before.

If they're going to increase Kogasa's damage against fear'd enemies, I do hope more bosses will be susceptible to fear

She has Arm-Twisting to force fear even on immune enemies, but her moves actually don't have terribly high fear infliction rates... it's a problem. Terror doesn't do much outside of activating some passives, so hopefully it'll be more widespread, yeah. That sick 200% damage with her infinite corridor skill is brutal, and her whole-frontline-HP-regen skill is buffed by terror too, I wonder how good that'll be?

(or, in the case of Maribel, she has it but it's not working <.< I REALLY hope it'll be fixed in the Plus Disk, along with Ability to Meddle with Boundaries)

I did testing yesterday and Meddling With Boundaries is functional in this version. I didn't test if it stacks with strategist... hmm, I should do that too sometime. HOWEVER, stat boost on sealing club still doesn't work; I wonder if 3peso even knows it's not working? (You can't tell unless you actively compare numbers to eachother, after all...)

Keep also in mind that, unlike TH1, in TH2 there are "group skills" which means a char can't be judged alone. For example, when you consider Mystia alone she's average at best.

This has always made it rather unfortunate to single out one character, like Rumia- I find Wriggle and Mystia too underwhelming to give a party slot to here, but Rumia's wonderful. Thankfully this is also alleviated by infinite corridor; all 9 team members get "Good Even By Myself" for +16% to all stats, all the time if no one learns Team 9, and everyone else with a family skill gets Proof of Kinship for half-strength stat boost for family members in the backrow. (There's also two new family skills in the corridor that don't get Proof of Kinship, but have rather high stat boosts instead... augh, like it wasn't hard enough to pick 12 people?!)

[Superteletubbies64]

Where can I get bottles of hyperspace? There are too many awesome items I can't craft just because I have no bottles of hyperspace

[Kirin no Sora]

What do you mean by saboteur?

Probably hexer

Sabotuer is actually a person who causes problems for enemies by hindering them, and status ailments and debuffs are the two ways to do so(Diva's a third way, but I'm not going to talk about that since that sort of saboteur can break most of the main game wide open). There is an older term that would probably click with people more, but I simply don't remember what that term is...

Where can I get bottles of hyperspace? There are too many awesome items I can't craft just because I have no bottles of hyperspace

The darkness stratum enemies should have them. I forget which one, though.

[Superteletubbies64]

Where can you find the darkness stratum enemies?

[RegalStar]

Sabotuer is actually a person who causes problems for enemies by hindering them, and status ailments and debuffs are the two ways to do so(Diva's a third way, but I'm not going to talk about that since that sort of saboteur can break most of the main game wide open). There is an older term that would probably click with people more, but I simply don't remember what that term is...

Mezzer?

[Kirin no Sora]

Mezzer?

I was thinking of that term, but I didn't know whether that term covered status ailments as well, so...

Where can you find the darkness stratum enemies?

Floors 16 through 18. So if you haven't reached that part of the game yet, put it out of your mind until then.

[Serela]

Specifically, the Void Assassin and Poisonous Sea Slug drop it at 4%+ rates. Which are, yeah, somewhere in 16~18F.

[LazorPagoda]

Even though most of the discussion here is about post game and +disk, I have something cool! You can 1 shot the final Tenshi fight with a minimal grinding with Hina. You need max Pain Flow, max Role of the Nagashi-bina, Misfortune Reversal, max debuffs on Hina, (optimally) max mnd debuffs on Tenshi, and  and silence. Hina should have around 4000 mag for this as well. https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL8WLbOJxSgUX_3vUuR-igZ_DvNLAKOeig&v=WtBz-TBAEHY here is a video of it done with alot of grinding  (not mine).  I did it on my last playthrough, but I did not think about scteenshots. D: