Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F  (Read 300282 times)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #390 on: January 23, 2016, 11:10:49 PM »
Consumes 1 MP when a normal attack is used.
The ATB bar will be set at 8600 instead of 5000 when using a normal attack.

Wut, i thought it was 7000, not 5000.

So she's a good support with SHK and all stats debuff. If you are lucky, she'll get infused with the boss' weakness right away and can also deal damage. Interesting but not impressive.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 11:15:58 PM by Wind Hazard »

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #391 on: January 23, 2016, 11:34:19 PM »
(mamizou spec/info, I'm not sure if I should spoiler so I guess I will in case?)
Spoiler:
With 8600 delay and most bosses having two weaknesses (some of which she may have on her attacks by default), getting the boss weakness probably isn't that big of a problem, and you can sub Sorc for empowered normal attacks. Even without that, though, it's not like you're always hitting weakness with your general attackers. Her stat layout is glassy but with almost Komachi-level HP, so she can take a hit without having to invest into her defenses, which is helpful; there's only so much multiboosting gear to throw around and it takes a lot of investment to keep bulky attackers actually bulky in postgame.

What it really comes down to is how damaging her attacks are, though, which I'll test at some point. (Saying she's a "good support" seems questionable, since it seems far moreso that she's an attacker with some effects on the side as attackers often have.)

Edit:Okay, Mamizou's attacks vs. 1F enemies (just for proportionate damage, and when not hitting weakness) She had 473 MAG.
Attack:460, 740 w/Sorc empowered attack
#1 Spell:700, 75% delay (150% mag?)
#2 Spell:1300, 30% delay (275% mag?)
#3 Spell:800, 940~ when elementally charged (maybe it's a 20% damage boost?), 40% delay (170% mag?)
#4 Spell:1200, goes up about 10% for one dmg boost character, 28% delay (255% mag?)
Mamizou's elemental fixing actually seems to make her spellcards dual-elemental; it attacks with both, not just the new one. That's... interesting, and makes me wonder if any of the other plus disk characters will have dual elemental attacks; it seems curious something of that degree would be limited to a single person, unless it was -really- trivial to add... I assume it functions off whichever element has the lowest affinity on that enemy (so ideal damage occurs) but I haven't tested.

If subbed Sorc, her empowered basic attack is so fast with decent damage that it's really not a bad use of time, so she can totally do that and fish for boss weaknesses. Then you'd prooobably spam one of her 8mp skills for real damage whilst swapping in/out, depending on whether you want AoE or not. Elemental transformations persist through swapping in/out and multiple skill usage.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 04:23:55 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Shadowlupus

  • Crimson Blade Hidden Amidst the Darkness
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #392 on: January 24, 2016, 03:15:37 AM »
Spoiler:
I've tested Mamizou's spell on 2F Ferocious Stump. Mamizou was infused with Dark-element, in which it resists. Then, I attacked the Stump with her CLD spell, in which the stump is neutral to. The damage color was orange so it is neutral. So yeah, it seems that skill will choose whichever element has the lowest affinity.

Spoiler:
Also, look like we can now create Main Equipment at Nitori's Workshop. There are only 2 craftable items for now, one TP item and one MP, HP item. We need some new materials to craft them though.

EDIT:
Spoiler:
Just testing Byakuren. I think she gets balanced rather than nerfed. She just now takes longer (2 turns) to give your party member 100% buff. Even then, she can now buff herself with her Duplicating Chant, which allows her to reach 100% buffs faster.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 03:45:33 AM by Kageshirou »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #393 on: January 24, 2016, 08:48:18 AM »
Bleh, they changed the Gensokyo menu images again... Those were a pain to do.

Anyway, all the new characters (besides
Spoiler:
Mamizou
) skills from the Learn Skill menu are below. As always, names and such are still provisional. Anything in {} brackets are my own comments.

Do note that there are some skills/spells which are clearly placeholders, some which make unclear references to other gameplay effects, and some descriptions which are clearly not finalized yet. (e.g. missing punctuation, which I didn't bother to recreate)

Spoiler:
Koishi Komeiji

1. Earth Spirits Palace Party
{Same as Satori/Rin/Utsuho}

2. Myouren Temple Disciple?
If the user is in front with Hijiri,
the user receives 1/3rd of Hijiri's stat buffs.

3. Super-Responsive Senses
If the user evades an enemy's attack,
the user's ATB bar increases by 3000.

4. Manipulation of the Subconscious
When taking an attack that hits the entire ally front line,
the user's DEF, MND and EVA will be increased by (SLv*8)%.

5. Genetics of the Subconscious
When taking an attack from an enemy, if the attack is not evaded, the Genetics of the Subconscious counter increases by 1.
When the Genetics of the Subconscious counter is 1 or more, EVA is increased by Counter*10%.
The counter is reset to 0 when an enemy attack is successfully evaded.

6. Expansion of Consciousness
Increases MP Recovery Rate by (SLv).

7. The Embers of Love
MP Cost 4   Single Enemy: FIR      Magic Attack - Acc-10
FIR spell that targets a single enemy.
Its low accuracy is its weak point, but it has a nice balance of power and delay.

8. Super-Ego
MP Cost 5   All Enemies: VOID      Magic Attack - Acc+100
Attacks all enemies with the special VOID element.
There are pretty much no enemies that resist VOID, so you can expect it to deal reliable damage.

9. All Ancestors Standing Beside Your Bed
MP Cost 6   All Enemies: MYS      Magic Attack - Acc+0
MYS spell that targets all enemies.
Damage dealt increases if the target enemy is inflicted with TRR or SIL.

10. Selfless Love
MP Cost 5   Single Ally: VOID      Auxillary Action
Dispels all ailments and stat changes from the target.
Do note that stat buffs are also dispelled. If stat buffs are dispelled, the target's HP
will be recovered in proportion to the potency of the dispelled stat buffs.


Shou Toramaru

1. Myouren Temple Personnel
When the user and Byakuren are both at the front,
the user will receive the HP recovery and stat buff effects
of all Sutra skills that Bykauren has learnt.

2. The Exasperated One
It's actually Nazrin who's always exasperated, but don't sweat the small stuff.
When Nazrin is at the front, the user's DEF and MND increases by (SLv*12)%.
When Rinnosuke is at the front, the user's ATK and MAG increases by (SLV*12)%.

3. Ability to Gather Treasures
Increases EXP received by 4%. Increases money received and enemy item drop rate by 10%.
The effect is reduced if the user is not at the front when the battle ends.

4. Pagoda's Light of Dharma
When the user gets a turn,
one of the following random effects will occur: reduce all stats of all enemies, recover
slight HP for all allies at the front, recover slight MP for all allies at the front,
increase all stats of all allies at the front, recover all ailments of all allies at the front.
{This is going to be hard to fit into the game when the patch work starts in earnest...}

5. Physical Counter
When taking a direct attack, there is a (SLv*33)% chance of countering with a normal attack.

6. Bishamonten's Rage
When the user takes damage, the user's Bishamonten's Rage counter increases by 1.
When the counter is at 1 or more, the user will receive a counter*3% increase in ATK.
The counter is halved when the user is switched to the back.

7. Hungry Tiger
MP Cost 3   Single Enemy: PHY      Direct Attack - Never Misses
PHY spell that targets a single enemy.
Increases the user's HP slightly each time it is used.
The delay is quite large compared to its power, so it is hard to use repeatedly.

8. Radiant Treasure Gun
MP Cost 3   All Enemies: SPI       Direct Attack - ACC+4
SPI spell that targets all enemies.
Enemies defeated by this spell will give 1.25x more experience and money, and the item drop
rate increases by 1.25x as well. However, it is not very strong.

9. Dazzling Gold
MP Cost 3   All Enemies: SPI       Composite Magic Attack - ACC+20
Spell that uses the user's ATK+MAG against the enemy's MND to calculate damage.
The enemy's MND is halved when calculating damage. The spell also inflicts PAR and HVY.

10. Aura of Justice
MP Cost 7   All Allies: SPI       Auxillary Action
Auxillary spell that increases all stats for all allies at the front slightly.
The effect is extremely slim on its own, but the effect increases if the Bishamonten's Rage
counter is at 1 or more, at the cost of reducing the Bishamonten's Rage counter back to 0.


Miko Toyosatomimi
1. Asuka Heritage Attack
When the user is at full HP,
all attacks will ignore 40% of the enemies' defenses.
{Reference to Gag Manga Biyori}

2. Royal Clan's Chaotic Dance (Miko)
When Futo is at the front,
the effects of the skill "Asuka Heritage Attack" will always be active,
and the skill will ignore 66% of the enemies' defenses instead of 40%.

3. Divinely-Appointed Stateswoman
When the user gets a turn,
if the frontliners' combined current HP is at 300% or more, the user's ATK and MAG is increased by 16%.
if the frontliners' combined current HP is at 200% or less, the user's DEF, MND and SPD is increased by 24%.

4. Prince Shotoku's Out-of-Place Artifact
Doubles the effects of equipment.
{Third 3peso waifu confirmed.}

5. Sage of Toyosatomimi
The effects of stat buff on the user is increased by 20%.
The user's maximum stat buff is increased from 100% to 120%.

6. Clear and Serene Mind
When the user gets a turn, if the user is at full MP, increases all stats by (SLv*6)%.

7. Tradition of Just Rewards
MP Cost 5   Single Enemy: MYS      Magic Attack - Acc+20
If "Divinely-Appointed Stateswoman - Good" is active, the spell's element becomes SPI and
it reduces all stats of the target. If "Divinely-Appointed Stateswoman - Evil" is actve,
the spell's element becomes DRK and it has a chance of dispelling the target's buffs.

8. Halo of the Guse Kannon
MP Cost 9   All enemies: SPI      Magic Attack - Acc+10
SPI spell that targets all enemies.
Has high power an an extremely large damage multiplier, but one of the worst delays.

9. Wishful Soul of Desire
MP Cost 9   Single Ally: SPI      Auxillary Action
Spell that recovers a small amount of an ally's HP.
If the target is inflicted with a status ailment or a debuff, the HP recovered will be
increased, and a small amount of MP will also be recovered.

Futo Mononobe

1. Kodoku Plate Pileup
Using certain spells will increase a Eighty Sake Cups counter. The counter maxes out at (SLv).
When the counter is at 1 or more, damage dealt will be increased by counter*3%.
When the counter is at 1 or more and the user takes an attack,
the counter will be decreased by 1 and damage taken will be reduced by 16%.

2. Royal Clan's Chaotic Dance (Futo)
When Miko is at the front, the Eighty Sake Cups counter increases twice as fast.

3. Ritual Plate Offering to Mikoto Nigihayahi
When the user gets a turn, recovers MP in proportion to the Eighty Sake Cups counter.
When the Eighty Sakes Cups counter is decreased to reduce damage, the damage reduction is changed to 40%.
When the user is KO'd, there is a (Counter*8)% chance of consuming 16 TP to survive with 1 HP.
The Eighty Sake Cups counter will be reset to 0 if this occurs.

4. Ritual Plate Offering to Okami Omononushi
When the user gets a turn, recovers HP in proportion to the Eighty Sake Cups counter.
If the Eighty Sake Cups counter is 1 or more and a Futo-only spell is used,
the damage dealt will be increased by a further Counter*5%. This skill will not take effect if
Ritual Plate Offering to Mikoto Nigihayahi is also learnt.

5. Desires to the Divine Spirit Temple
If the Eighty Sake Cups counter is 1 or more and the [Concentrate] command is used,
All stats will be increased and HP recovered in proportion to the counter amount,
and the counter will be reset to 0.

6. Giving You Wings
Greatly increases recovery from debuffs and status ailments.
{Original Japanese is 元気ハツラツ lit. Energetic and Lively, a slogan for Oronamin C. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oronamin)}

7. Mononobe's Eighty Sake Cups
MP Cost 3   Single Enemy: PHY      Direct Attack - Acc+8
PHY spell that targets a single enemy.
Targets all enemies if certain conditions are fulfilled.
Using this spell after learning Kodoku Plate Pileup will increase the Eighty Sake Cups counter.
{I'm guessing the conditions are related to the Eighty Sake Cups counter, like the other spells.}

8. Gate Opening for Catastrophe
MP Cost 4   Single Enemy: DRK      Direct Attack - Acc+8
DRK spell that targets a single enemy. High power with a large delay.
Inflicts additional status ailments as the Eighty Sake Cups counter increases.
Using this spell after learning Kodoku Plate Pileup will increase the Eighty Sake Cups counter.

9. Miwa Plate Storm
MP Cost 4   All Enemies: WND      Direct Attack - Acc+24
DRK spell that targets all enemies.
Using this spell after learning Kodoku Plate Pileup will increase the Eighty Sake Cups counter.

10. Taiyi True Fire
MP Cost 7   All Enemies: FIR      Direct Attack - Acc+0
Attacks all enemies with a FIR element attack with a big damage multiplier. Also inflicts PSN.
The infliction rate and strength of the PSN effect increases as the Eighty Sake Cups counter increases.
Using this spell does not increase the Eighty Sake Cups counter.


Kokoro Hata

1. Myouren Temple Disciple?
{Same as Koishi}

2. Phantasmagoric Emotion Transfer
When the user uses the [Concentrate] command, the user wil receive the "Emotion Mask" effect.
There are four types of Emotion Masks: Joy, Anger, Melancholy and Cheerfulness. The masks apply
stat buffs and debuffs to all enemies and allies, and can be shuffled using the [Concentrate] command.
Joy: ATK/DEF Up, MAG/MND Down. Anger: ATK/MAG Up, DEF/MND Down. Melancholy: MAG/MND Up, ATK/DEF down. Cheer: SPD Up, ATK/MAG down.
{Another "how is this going to fit in the textbox" description...}

3. Power of the Emotion Mask Creator
When Miko is at the front,
reduces the stat debuff to allies from the "Emotion Mask" effect by half.

4. Convergence of the Sixty-Six Emotions
When in battle, if any of the "Emotion Mask" stat changes are active,
the user will receive the 2.5x of the effects of the stat changes.

5. Manipulation of Emotions
If the user uses an attack with the "Emotion Mask" effect active,
the stat debuff portion from the Emotion Mask effect will be inflicted as an additional stat debuff.
If the user uses a healing move with the "Emotion Mask" effect active,
the stat buff portion from the Emotion Mask effect will be added as an additional stat buff.

6. The Lost Emotion
When using the [Concentrate] command, the ATB bar is set to 8500 instead of 5000, but the MP
recovered will become 1/3rd of normal. If the skill "Efficient Concentration" is learned,
the MP recovered will be increased to 1/2th of normal.

7. Four Humors Possession
MP Cost 7   All Enemies: WND      Magic Attack - Acc+10
Hits all enemies with a magic attack. If the user has an Emotion Mask effect active,
the properties of the attack will be changed, and additional effects will be inflicted.

8. Invigorated Kagura Lion
MP Cost 4   Single Enemy: PHY      Direct Attack - Acc+48
Hits a single enemy with a physical attack. It has better properties than other spells of its
ilk, so Kokoro will do reliable damage with it even if her stat bonuses are split between ATK and MAG.
When the spell is used, the "Fighting Spirit" effect is increased by 1. The max effect level is (SLv).

9. The Man of Qi Worries About the Earth
MP Cost 8   All Enemies: WND+NTR      Composite Magic Attack - Acc+0
Attacks all enemies with a composite WND+NTR magic attack.
It has no other special effects, but having two elements gives it more flexibility against resistant enemies.



Akyu Hieda

1. Ability to Memorize Everything
If Akyu is in the party,
the enemy's exact HP details can be seen i battle.

2. Gensokyo Chronicles Wisdom
If the user is at the front,
increases damage dealt of ally attacks that hit weaknesses by 12%,
and decreases damage taken by enemy attacks by 25% if the target's respective elemental affinity is less than 200.

3. Memories of Gensokyo
When the user gets a turn,
heals a random status ailment from each member of the front line.

4. Power of the Child of Miare
If the user has 1 or more TP and the user's HP is reduced to 0,
there will be a (SLv*10)% chance of consuming all TP and recovering all HP.
The effect will not activate if the user has 0 TP.

5. Grand Incantation
{Same as Reimu}

6. Astounding Fortitude
When the user gets a turn, the user recovers 1 MP.

7. Yin Yang Orb
{Same as Reimu}

Tokiko

1. Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai
When the user takes damage from an element with less than 200 affinity,
the user recovers (SLv*4)% HP and (SLv) MP.

2. Victim of Reimu and Marisa's Brutality
When Reimu or Marisa is at the front,
the user's ATK and DEF increases by (SLv*10)%.

3. Crested Ibis's Breeding Feather
When the user gets a turn and the user is under the "Reading" effect,
slightly reduces the effect of enemy stat buffs
and slightly increases the effect of enemy stat debuffs.

4. Sugari no Ontachi's Ornament
When the user gets a turn and the user is under the "Reading" effect,
slightly increases the effect of frontline ally stat buffs
and slightly decreases the effect of Frontline ally stat debuffs.

5. Crossed Over Endangered Bird
When the user is at the front and under the "Reading" effect,
slightly increases the effect of PSN's HP reduction, HVY's DEF and SPD debuff,
TRR's slight stat debuffs and SIL's MND and MAG debuff.

6. Give As Good As You Get
When the user takes damage from an enemy, the user's ATK is increased by (SLv*5)%.

7. Youkai Yakuza Kick
MP Cost 5   All Enemies: PHY      Direct Attack - Acc+4
A high-power, low-delay and useful basic attack known for breaking Kourindou's door.
If the "Reading" effect is active, the effect is removed in exchange for a power boost.

8. The Count of Monte Cristo's Vengance
MP Cost 6   Single Enemy: CLD      Magic Attack - Acc+24
Attack that targets all enemies and inflicts SHK and DTH.
It's not very powerful. The user receives the "Reading" effect after use.
{Yes, the description says it targets all enemies, but the stats of the spell say otherwise}

9. Musketeer d'Artagnan's Recklessness
MP Cost 6   All Enemies: FIR      Magic Attack - Acc+24
Attack that targets all enemies, inflicts SIL and reduces MAG and SPD slightly.
It's not very powerful. The user receives the "Reading" effect after use.

10. The Future of Non-von Neumann Processors
MP Cost 12   All Allies: MYS      Auxillary Action
Heals status ailments, halves the effect of stat debuffs, and recovers a small amount of HP.
The HP recovery amount is determined by the difference between the target's current and max MP.
The user receives the "Reading" effect after use.


Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #394 on: January 24, 2016, 01:13:14 PM »
Hmmm...
Spoiler:
Koishi will depend on the power of her attacks, Shou seems really weird and I'm not sure (Two of her three attacks say they're weak and the other is a cheap all-target, but she has some pretty good passives and base stats...) and obviously Akyu's moveset isn't out yet (but she carries somewhat good-niche-type passives),
and the others all seem like they should be pretty great, gimmicky yes, but solid characters. (And miss-third-maintenance looks OP as fuck, like, literally everything about her looks goddamn crazy.)

Spoiler:
Actually, Shou might be a good tank/support (especially considering how many plus disk characters benefit from Byakuren, using a Myouren-centric team and dumping your def/mnd/hp gems on Byakuren to make her supremely tanky seems like a good idea, after all...) but her moveset makes it... a little odd? She's got the stats, gets Byakuren's full regen/buff powers to stay at 100% and regen HP, and a max HP increasing move, so I guess that's probably best. And she has the buff to use every now and then, since in a tank build she doesn't need the atk counter bonus. Mmn, with Byakuren's buffs/regen and Shou's base stats, she's probably -really- well suited to it, actually. She'd just look to a subclass for more support moves, like Healer or Pharmacologist. And of course, the synergy with Nazrin encourages more Myouren members >_>;[/spoilers]
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 01:36:26 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #395 on: January 24, 2016, 03:42:09 PM »
Hello there ! (Oh yeah, first post. I did read the rules beforehand.)
I've been lurking around this topic for a long moment as a guest. I didn't imagine that people would still talk about that game for years, which is very nice.
I played both LoT1 and 2 for a pretty long time (More hours for the first one though) and can't prevent myself from playing them again sometimes.

So far
Spoiler:
I just finished visiting B4F after beating Mamizou and I don't know what to do since everything is apparently locked. It doesn't help further since obviously everything is in Japanese again so I may be missing something near this location. (Or maybe, there is literally nothing to do except waiting for the rest to be released ?)

For the moment I'm thinking about restarting LoT2 anew while using all characters at once, for the sake of testing everyone's potential.


Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #396 on: January 24, 2016, 04:27:51 PM »
Bleh, they changed the Gensokyo menu images again... Those were a pain to do.

I'm hoping I can get canon to actually finish doing the images, since he does owe me.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #397 on: January 25, 2016, 06:49:11 AM »
Spoiler:
Miko
looks absolutely bonkers.  Ignores 2/3 of enemy defenses with the right party member on the frontline, gets an extra 16% atk/magic or 24% defenses/speed per turn, gains 20% more benefit from buffs, what sounds like a really strong SPI nuke, and then Maintenance, just in case everything else wasn't enough.

Also, seeing that element changing ability made me wish for a subclass that could do that.  One gripe I have with Labyrinth 2 in general is that it requires a lot of party re-arranging since most attackers only have a couple of offensive elemental options to play with, if that many.  I guess there are generic subclass attacks too but those are pretty limited, especially for mages.  That's another area that I'm hoping Plus Disk will improve on.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #398 on: January 25, 2016, 09:06:59 AM »
Spoiler:
  One gripe I have with Labyrinth 2 in general is that it requires a lot of party re-arranging since most attackers only have a couple of offensive elemental options to play with, if that many.  I guess there are generic subclass attacks too but those are pretty limited, especially for mages.  That's another area that I'm hoping Plus Disk will improve on.
I agree that party rearranging is time consuming but it also give us the incentive to try as many char as possible that is best for the situation. This is not a game where you'll  play from the beginning to end with a fixed "best" party you see ppl mention on the forum :) I like how i can alternate Nitori for PHY, Flan for DRK/FIR, Suika for NTR,.. so all chars i love have oppoturnities to shine.

And was maintenance not broken enough? Now we have a Maintenaince/Ignores Def char.

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
  • Umi is love, Umi is life
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #399 on: January 25, 2016, 10:40:41 AM »
I agree that party rearranging is time consuming but it also give us the incentive to try as many char as possible that is best for the situation. This is not a game where you'll  play from the beginning to end with a fixed "best" party you see ppl mention on the forum :) I like how i can alternate Nitori for PHY, Flan for DRK/FIR, Suika for NTR,.. so all chars i love have oppoturnities to shine.
There's no "best" party but there are "best for most situations" parties. And thats what people "debate" over if you can even call it debating. Even in LoT1, it was the same idea, since there were plenty of partys that are able to clear the game, but there were clear party members that excelled in a lot of different situations. In LoT2, the gap between an "average" party member and an "excellent" party member has closed considerably, which allows for multiple playthroughs with a variety of different parties / a lot of party rearranging which is definitely a good thing.

That said :
One gripe I have with Labyrinth 2 in general is that it requires a lot of party re-arranging since most attackers only have a couple of offensive elemental options to play with, if that many.  I guess there are generic subclass attacks too but those are pretty limited, especially for mages.  That's another area that I'm hoping Plus Disk will improve on.
I REALLY don't understand this comment. The characters have about as much elemental diversity as they did in LoT1. Yuugi lost Storm on Mt. Ooe, Kaguya lost Fire Rat's Robe, Yuuka lost Master Spark. Spells that were non elemental got changed to have an element and some spells had their elements changed (like Reisen's Discarder becoming a Dark spell instead of Fire) but their spell set is about as diverse in LoT2 as they were in LoT1. Now I only looked at my LoT1 party members and compared them to my party members in LoT2 but I can't imagine the other characters having completely different circumstances. LoT2 doesn't have non elemental attacks save for one exception. Thats about it.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #400 on: January 25, 2016, 01:03:12 PM »
Most of the time it's really unnecessary to swap out just so you can have another person hitting a weakness, anyway. (It's mostly only relevant for bosses with gimmicks that will require very high damage or if your party doesn't have enough tools for getting past sky-high def or mnd, which is regularly a thing in LoT2, admittedly; it moreso means you should be prepared for that in advance with Kaguya or Meiling or Iku or something.) And you can sorta do it with subclasses sometimes, which isn't as much of an issue (you don't have to reequip or spend money in the library...)

In LoT2 you can still make parties capable of effectively tackling the entire game without switchouts, although it does constrain your party of 12 a little bit more. What's more notable than LoT1 is just that it's more realistic to actually swap in part-time members than it used to be (until postgame at least, your swapins aren't instantly behind by 20% exp... plus boss level constraints) , and they're significantly different enough than they used to be that it might be more useful of an option as well, but it's never really necessary if you design your party well.

Also, about good vs. bad party members, in LoT1 nearly every single character was really solid... apart from some of the Plus Disk people being wonky (but apart from Utsuho, not bad) and Mokou being a little underwhelming (although still basically fine if you really liked Mokou). There was more who just plain weren't viable postgame, though, I suppose. Like, Wriggle's poison stops working and Cirno gets both outclassed and her statuses stop working on almost any bosses, you can do a lot better offensively than Sakuya and SPD buffs aren't very strong postgame, etc. These guys are at least pretty solid party members until somewhere around 16F~20F though.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 01:22:16 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #401 on: January 26, 2016, 12:44:37 AM »
Can someone give me a clear file of LoT2? I lost my saves way back and never really felt like beating it again.

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
  • Umi is love, Umi is life
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #402 on: January 26, 2016, 02:58:27 AM »
Can someone give me a clear file of LoT2? I lost my saves way back and never really felt like beating it again.
Here's mine. Have fun with how I've built my party members.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #403 on: January 26, 2016, 07:52:33 AM »
That said :I REALLY don't understand this comment. The characters have about as much elemental diversity as they did in LoT1. Yuugi lost Storm on Mt. Ooe, Kaguya lost Fire Rat's Robe, Yuuka lost Master Spark. Spells that were non elemental got changed to have an element and some spells had their elements changed (like Reisen's Discarder becoming a Dark spell instead of Fire) but their spell set is about as diverse in LoT2 as they were in LoT1. Now I only looked at my LoT1 party members and compared them to my party members in LoT2 but I can't imagine the other characters having completely different circumstances. LoT2 doesn't have non elemental attacks save for one exception. Thats about it.

In retrospect I worded that kind of poorly.  The lack of non-elemental attacks is the main thing I don't like since in practice I end up switching out half my lineup and then re-equipping them for boss fights, whereas in LoT1 I tended to have several core attackers with non-elemental attacks as well and I only usually switched out one or two members for a given boss fight.  LoT2 in particular adds a lot of limited resources that make using a higher number of characters somewhat annoying on top of the reduced exp for those outside your party of 12.  I guess you could say that going from 6 to 8 elements means you'll have less options when you're trying to exploit a boss's weakness but that's pretty minor (and I think LoT2 bosses probably have more weaknesses on average anyways).

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #404 on: January 26, 2016, 08:52:42 AM »
I was a little bored, and did some more datamining, and based off of what I found, there's definitely a lot more to the Plus Disk than what I originally thought (my findings will be kept in spoilers just in case).

Spoiler:
Specifically, I found the floor names for roughly 11 basement floors (B1F-B11F, B1F through B3F already being in the game, and B4F having a title card but of course isn't accessible), but also the floor names for aboveground floors (22F-30F). The names are as follows, if anyone wants to translate them (though I'll include my impromptu translations, inaccurate as they may be):

22F 天の三宝を得た賢者の祭壇 [The Sage's Altar where one Obtains the Three Heavenly Treasures]
23F 四神が胎動する黄金の空道 [The Golden Skyway that the Four Seasonal Gods Foment]
24F 此岸を俯瞰する月長石の天路 [The Moonstone Celesphere that Overlooks This Life]
25F 世界を蝕む邪龍の顎門 [The Evil Dragon's Jaw which Gnaws at the World]
26F 東方の迷宮・大樹の終わりを見届ける激戦の間 [Labyrinth of Touhou - The Battlefield that Ascertains the Great Tree's End]
27F 光溢れる大樹の果て [The Great Tree's Terminus where Light Overflows]
28F 偉大なる存在に挑む定命者の間 [The Space where Fated Men Challenge the Grand Being]
29F 覇者が集う緋々色金の大戦場 [The Grand Scarlet Gold Battlefield where Champions Gather]
30F 終焉を観測し続けた聖者達の門 [The Saints' Gate that Endlessly Surveys Demise]

B1F 新たな旅立ちを見つめる怨念達の胎内 [The Womb of Grudges that Stare at New Departures]
B2F 絶望から産まれた少女が彷徨う黒穴 [The Black Hole Prowled by a Maiden Born of Despair]
B3F 失意の眼が刺す黒曜の通路 [The Passage where the Black Sun Stings the Eyes of Adversity]
B4F 地獄の釜から這い出る魍魎の広間 [The Hall Where Spirits and Demons Crawl from the Kettle of Hell]
B5F 時が静止した蒼の洞穴 [The Blue Cave where Time Stood Still]
B6F 魂が凍てつく樹氷の迷路 [The Maze of Frost-Covered Trees that Freeze the Soul]
B7F 光さえ閉じ込めた紺碧の牢獄 [The Azure Gaol that Imprisons Even Light]
B8F 意思を塞ぐ肉壁の回廊 [The Corridor of Flesh which Impedes Intentions]
B9F 遍く者を憎悪する腐肉の祭壇 [The Carrion Altar of Widely Hated Men (Alternatively, The Altar of Carrion Belonging to Much Hated Men)]
B10F 亡者の嘆きが響く鮮血の聖堂 [The Temple of Blood where the Cries of the Dead Resound]
B11F 終末を越えた異形達が踊り狂う幾界 [The Boundary where the Many Grotesque Dance in Ecstasy, Crossing the End]

Also found was what I assume is the template for the Endless Corridor floors:

無限の回廊 第%d階層
無限の回廊 第%d階準備構造

It might not be the biggest thing, but based off this, this might be a much bigger expansion than the original LoT's Plus Disk.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 09:50:52 AM by Validon98 »
Derping at Touhou since June 2012, derping at RPing Touhou since Feburary 2013.

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Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #405 on: January 26, 2016, 02:41:43 PM »
LoT2 in particular adds a lot of limited resources that make using a higher number of characters somewhat annoying on top of the reduced exp for those outside your party of 12.
In LoT2 the EXP is a lot less of an issue, really; in LoT1 everyone out of the party would be 20% exp behind, but in LoT2 the only exp difference is those granted by learning the exp up passives, which a lot of people probably won't do a lot of until nearly the end of maingame. Past that, since all the bosses have their soft level caps, if you're aiming to not surpass those then exp is even less of a problem. (might take a little extra grind, but)

Also, damn, no wonder he's taking his sweet time with this expansion. It sounds massive o.o
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

RegalStar

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #406 on: January 26, 2016, 07:24:23 PM »
[datamining]

Can you datamine the list of new items and descriptions too?

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #407 on: January 26, 2016, 07:49:03 PM »
Can you datamine the list of new items and descriptions too?

I can give it a try, I think I've roughly found where at least the new sub equips are, but it'll take awhile to trawl through it. I'll post what I can once I finish trawling through it (gotta love playing around with hex editors sometimes).

EDIT: Nowhere near done, but my initial finds so far for subequips include items that boost a singular stat by 160%, 240%, 320%, and finally 400% (sorta like the first new items in LoT1's Plus Disk). Yeah this might take awhile.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 08:27:26 PM by Validon98 »
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RegalStar

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #408 on: January 26, 2016, 08:56:15 PM »
Well, I know that there is 1 extra page of main equips, 6(!) extra pages of sub equips, 1 extra page of materials and 6 extra pages of special items, so yeah it could get quite long.

I only need the original Japanese though; they're mostly going to be references to other things anyways and I like searching for that kind of stuff.

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #409 on: January 26, 2016, 09:28:38 PM »
Yeah, I'm still working on it, holy crap I feel like I've barely scratched the surface (I've done maybe roughly 1.3 pages of sub equips, barely started on the main equips, almost done with the materials, and nowhere near done with the special items, I've been jumping back and forth between the types just to sorta get an idea what's there).

Also mauve's old Shift-JIS text search tool is a massive help because it's easier to look through everything when it's in .txt form and I don't have to stare at a hex editor all day.

EDIT: Finished Materials (I found 20 of them, exactly one page's worth), going to do Main Equips and post both on a Google Docs. I'll add the Sub Equips and Special Items when I finish those up (most likely tomorrow, I'm not getting this done tonight for sure)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 10:07:07 PM by Validon98 »
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Hawk

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #410 on: January 26, 2016, 10:27:46 PM »
Hmm...it's probably easier just to hack your save to give you all the items.

I'll try to do that tonight.

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #411 on: January 26, 2016, 10:42:02 PM »
Hmm...it's probably easier just to hack your save to give you all the items.

I'll try to do that tonight.

Mmm, that's always true, but I'm still going to get the rest of the text anyhow just to have it like... there for people to see and all. Speaking of...

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7EiMC40FKulUTRKRFFXYU56NU0&usp=sharing <--- The folder for right now, it only has Main Equips and Materials for the moment, but it includes the full extra page of each.
Derping at Touhou since June 2012, derping at RPing Touhou since Feburary 2013.

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RegalStar

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #412 on: January 27, 2016, 02:15:27 AM »
List of my translation of main equips and their effects. See how many of them you recognize.

Spoiler:
Krosis (MP+10)
Button of Undying (MP+15, MP Recovery+1)
Judas Pain (MP+15, MP Recovery+2)
Ethos of Bodybuilding (TP+12)
Ethos of Bodybuilding Vol. 2 (TP+15, HP Recovery+3%)
Ethos of Bodybuilding Last Volume (TP+20, HP Recovery+6%)
Luck & Pluck (Base ATK+1.0, Defeated enemies item drop+20%)
Mariquis de Sade's Joy (Status infliction rate+15%) - this is from some very early Nitro+ game called "Vampirdzhija Vjedogonia" which seems untranslated
Egg (All base stats+0.5, Occasionally auto-recovers from status)
Exalted Falchion (Damage+20% when hitting weakness)
La Pucelle d'Orl?ans (Base ATK+1.5, Base DEF+1.0, Base SPD+0.5) - the description of it being a sword is from Touhou Maiden, but I figured the correct word sequence makes more sense than "Orleans la Pucelle"
Force Booster (Base MAG+1.5, Base MND+1.0, Base SPD+0.5)
Dream Aura (Reduce all damage by maxHP/8%, slight chance to nullify damage above that)
Super Drill (Ignore 25% of target DEF/MND)
Blood Sword (Convert 4% damage as HP healing)
Angel Slime Hat (Defeated enemies experience+10%)
Ancient Scepter (Equipped character's buffs, debuffs and status ailment strength+12%)
Tokugawa Doubling Gold (MP+12, TP+12, All Base Stats+1.2) - This item is beyond me. It's something from "Widenyo" that has no translation, seems to have two names both showing up on the web (or maybe this is an enhanced version not yet added to Alicesoft wiki), and the name makes no sense to me. Help~
Avoid Ring (When evading attack, slightly debuffs all enemies and buffs all allies)
Infinity Bandana (Occasionally nullifies MP cost)

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #413 on: January 27, 2016, 02:36:02 AM »
List of my translation of main equips and their effects. See how many of them you recognize.

Spoiler:
Dream Aura (Reduce all damage by maxHP/8%, slight chance to nullify damage above that)
I'm not sure I understand what this actually means but it sounds like it might be OP on like, tank Komachi or HP build Renko? but yeah I'm sorta confused. The
Spoiler:
Blood Sword
sounds insanely good for the bulky attackers who can put out higher numbers, though, and in general several of these equips are... quite a thing.
Spoiler:
Hina's going to rip my team apart with her +15% accuracy debuffs BUT I DON'T CARE I LOVE IT
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #414 on: January 27, 2016, 02:53:25 AM »
Now that I look at the list closer, it looks like
Spoiler:
Blood Sword
's effect only applies on regular attacks. I'm sure I got
Spoiler:
Dream Aura
's written effect correct, however. (Of course whether it is/will be correctly implemented is anyone's guess)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #415 on: January 27, 2016, 05:31:20 AM »
So miko is basically the lovechild of renko/nitori and byakureni in brokenness

holy crap

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #416 on: January 27, 2016, 01:00:30 PM »
Now that I look at the list closer, it looks like
Spoiler:
Blood Sword
's effect only applies on regular attacks. I'm sure I got
Spoiler:
Dream Aura
's written effect correct, however. (Of course whether it is/will be correctly implemented is anyone's guess)
Iku confirmed for becoming a vampire in plus disk. Are you ready to GET IT UP

Also it's mostly just that I'm not sure how to actually parse what's written for that item.
Spoiler:
All damage flat reduced by an amount that is 8% of your max hp? because yeah holy shit. It may be possible that as numbers inflate, though, HP tanks start taking utterly stupid amount of damage due to their lower defenses, so they might need it? Well, Komachi might, Renko's defenses still aren't -that- bad.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #417 on: January 27, 2016, 08:17:57 PM »
So I'm not done with the special items quiiiite yet, but I quickly scanned through and discovered that the rest of what's left all have roughly the same effect as the ones I'd already copied over, just for different characters (I'll still copy over the rest, but I figured I might as well throw up what I've done so far).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11d1QXj3mExIckk3xC-fyux7NHT1nxn_0XLdhkZJjj8A/edit?usp=sharing

I'll add the rest in awhile and edit this post when I'm done with that, but that covers what to expect from the special items. Sub equips I'll wait on until I actually copy those all over since it's not like with special items where there are similar items with only slightly different effects.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 10:01:03 PM by Validon98 »
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RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #418 on: January 27, 2016, 09:29:22 PM »
Summary:
Jet Black Fragment
* Occasionally reduces TP penalty for dying in battle. Rate of reduction and activation depends on the number of fragments you have.

Infinity Gem
* Used to exchange stuff with Akyuu

Weapon Recipe 1-4
* Recipe for equipments.

[Stat] Orb
* (The description given isn't very clear, but I'm guessing they're a second set of boosting items for characters who already used 10 gems for that stats)

[Stronger set of exp/item/drop boosters]
* Exactly what they say on the tin

Tome of Vigorous Training - [stats]
* Usable on characters who have max level on the corresponding stat boosting skill. Rewrites it with "[stat] second boost" skill. (No idea how this interacts with Rinnosuke's high boost skills, or how these skills work to begin with)

Tome of Seasoned Weathering - [stats]
* Same as above basically; unlocks a third tier of boosting skills

[Plant] Sigils
* One each for 22F, 27F, 28F and B11F

Pagoda Parts A/B
* Shou is littering again

Kokoro's Mask - [emotion]
* For recruiting Kokoro most likely

Future of Non-von Neumann Computers Vol. [9-12]
* I have no idea

Toyosatomimi's Seal of Seven Stars
* It looks like this allows you to go further below the dungeon or something

Amulet for the Giant Five-elements Circle
* Looks like your generic quest MacGauffins

Azure/Purple Shock Spell
* ditto

[Various subclass]'s Proof
* Swordmaster, Grand Magician, Appraiser, Elementalist, Ninja, Oracle

[some names]
* more subclass unlocking: Protection of Ame-no-Murakumo, Dragon God's Power, *WINNER*

[some more names]
* Mass collectible items that increase damage for a specific character by 1% and reduce damage by 0.5% per item up to 50 (any more have no effect)

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F
« Reply #419 on: January 27, 2016, 10:00:53 PM »
Rest of the special items are done, updating that document. The rest are just these items though:

[some more names]
* Mass collectible items that increase damage for a specific character by 1% and reduce damage by 0.5% per item up to 50 (any more have no effect)

Also IIRC these items also unlock new skills for those characters, based off of what I read, so they do more than just make that character deal more damage and take less.

Also I completely replaced the document from before, so the link's different (I updated it on the above post)
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