FTL: Faster Then Light: Advanced Mafia (Sector 4, Scrapping Cycle)

[ActionDan]

I noticed both Bard/Shalako are listed in the votecount as "defensive maneuvers", and are also both the only players who haven't posted this phase, apart from Shalako commenting on random avatars at the very start of the day. So I presume this has to do with their inactivity? But I didn't see mentions of anything like that in the rules.

Will do some rereading before I go to sleep tonight (aka, within the next couple hours)

It can be inferred that they are the only people being voted that aren't voting, as opposed to those who are voting or those who aren't voting but aren't being voted

[Serela]

that sure is some (mildly confusing but understandable) dedication to flavor there

[NekoNekoRex]

Unfortunately I'm kinda tired tonight after working 10 hours with precious little break between, and after getting a lot less sleep last night then I'd like, so if someone could tell me who I need to prod besides Bard and Shalako, that would be great.

[Serela]

bard and shalako is it I think

[NekoNekoRex]

Bardiche and Shalako have been prodded

[Serela]

I was wrong, Raitaki's last post was 27~ hours ago

Prodded as well

[Serela]

It's funny to look at how different the amounts of content are when I open up the posting history of the 4 people I'm about to reread :V Conq is 1.5 pages, Rai is .8 pages, Shadoweh is about .6 and Bard is like... .25

anyway the actual amount of content posted isn't anywhere near as important as the content itself, lessee here

[Raitaki]

Blah. Bleh. I probably should have called V/LA. I had far less time to spend at home this weekend than I expected.

Re Conq's question on my minicase against Shalako: The problem with Shalako's DNA vote wasn't that it was a policy vote, but that he made what amounted to a policy vote by basically saying "DNA is arguing in favor of policy lynching newbies instead of lynching them for being scum, so I'm voting him". DNA's reasoning didn't scream scum to me, and Shalako also failed to explain why DNA's reasoning was scummy instead of just wrong, so until he can, Shalako is guilty of the same crime of voting someone for reasons other than being scummy that he accused DNA off. Granted, this wasn't a very strong case, admittedly it's more of a votepark to apply pressure/demand a reply since most my scumreads disappeared with ED2.

For a Day 1 Murrin made a great lynch option, not just because he had content to sift through and was a little weaselly in my opinion, but because the pressure on him disintegrated for what I perceive as no discernable reason. Onto lurkers. Do you know how hard it usually is to lynch all lurkers? I refuse to believe that the cause was Shalako's defense because the same people who switched votes were also talking about how suspicious Shalako seemed to them. Things that don't make sense deserve atttention and investigation. I still don't get what happened but there's 0 lynch force in that direcction today so *shrug*

A moderately interesting point to bring up, but...what do you think about said people who got off the Murrin wagon? Thinking of something like this then not saying anything about the people involved seems odd.

The vote timing thing from Bard is at worst a null read imo. Town Bard has voted someone for something bad they did some time after he pointed said bad thing out once before. Dan has a point about low interactions and refutable case, but either or both of those things can be said about some other players, such as Shadoweh and Shalako.

Still leery of Dormio as a former player, but Dan hasn't set off red flags so far, so I don't particularly feel like re-pursuing the lynch on this slot just yet.

Uuugh right now the only people that's worse than null to me are Shadoweh and Shalako? I guess I'll take another hard look at Murrin or something, I haven't gotten any more town gut coming from his posts since the one I mentioned D1

cut by 8 >_>

[Serela]

The only incriminating things I have to point at Bard are the low presence overall, casing on easy!Serela (which is even less incriminating than usual given how incredibly understandable from town it'd be and the fact that after I made a wall he completely forgave me and decided I looked town; actually really this isn't incriminating at all apart from that it was a low-effort vote to make for most of the day) and then trying to turbowagon someone who basically wasn't there, but he actually had a decent case to drive it with, not to mention the lack of any real competition to it anyway.

In case it wasn't clear, the end result of that assessment is that whilst Bard's got some stuff that would mesh will with scum!Bard it'd all make 100% sense from town!Bard and doesn't suggest scum over town much, if at all. :T Needs an eye kept on him, sure, but if I end up voting him today it'd probably be because "Sorry dude but I can't find -anything- scum-suggestive on other people." and/or because he's actually a big wagon so it might be a consolidation thing? >.>

...it's easy to avoid saying too much that's suspicious when you don't post a lot, though, I suppose...

Shadoweh! ...is adorable as usual. <3

Try not to get modkilled if you're prone to accidentally telling too much SERELA

ilu2, no wait you like the kittens not me
IT'S OKAY IT WOULDN'T WORK OUT ANYWAY

I want to read Shadoweh as town for meta reasons, but at the same time her D1 was Murrin tunnelling with a side of reading Shalako as town, so I really probably shouldn't. That's something that should actually be kinda suspicious.

Raitaki... I dunno if it's apathy or the lateness (it's midnight) or that I just did two other rereads but I'm really not getting anything in either direction. :T Null.

conq... looks pretty town, I'm pretty sure I came to that conclusion last time too I tried to reread him (after I said he maybe felt kinda sideliney, and then looked him over and quickly retracted that statement as completely wrong), maybe in the future I'll actually remember this now

also I forgot why I have a townread on murrin but I'm just going to pretend I didn't notice I forgot because I want to be lazy about things just a bit longer

I'M REALLY SLEEPY I NEED TO STOP MAKING MY POSTS AT MIDNIGHT AS THAT RESULTS IN WORSE POSTS, BYE

[Murrin]

Murrin what in particular do you agree with with regard to conq? I.e. what makes sense?

Examples: Post 148, Post 152, Post 211, Post 226, and Post 335.  He explains himself well.  His reasoning seems sound and sensible.  I can see where he's coming from with his claims even if I don't agree with them.  He explains what his suspicion is and why.  You don't have to agree with what he says but it is well laid out and you can see how he came to his conclusions. 

@Murrin What are your reads aside from Conq and DNA?

I'll see if I can post my reads later tonight (meaning, actually come up with reads).

[Shalako]

I'm here, don't have time for huge post but I saw someone ask me about my vote on DNA and I think i've gotta reread and put together a T/S list but I know I haven't questioned Bard, I think some Mafia were on the Murrin Wagon, I don't quite understand the why clearing someone for putting effort into the game makes sense, since Mafia can put effort into a game too?

I'm was voting him because of his pushing a policy lynch because it's scummy.
The same logic you use saying that pushing Policy Lynches is worth voting for...is the reason i'm voting DNA, it's not a policy lynch, it's a reason for me to vote someone.
If you are so against policy lynches why not question DNA over why he wants to lynch new players (low hanging fruit who he is discrediting for no reason.)

[DNAbc]

Also see my name mentioned quite a bit,and to clarify my argument about lynching murrin and shalako was twofold; firstly, I indeed do scumread them both. I see a lack of elaboration on both shalako and murrin even while making alot of posts, and never quite elaborated on any of them. this isnt just a problem with their skill, but more of how Murrin spent the majority of the day parking his vote on me with a very weak 'he's attacking effort shalako' claim, then just hopped around on some other wagons without really substantiating on any of them (defos RMB murrin turning 180 on SB) after my initial wall response to Zak (the one before I flipped out) and people expressing I look towny, so there's really no explainable reasons for the murrin turnabout other than to avoid flak and attention which is a scum motivation. Shlako basically has the same problem, except my impression is that he went for refuge in audacity instead, highlighting again and again a simple one liner that wasn't even relevant. These scum motives are universal regardless of newbness, and shouldnt be handwaved by "effort"

At such, their arguments are borderline useless, which constitutes my second point, that even if they were town, they might as well be a negative contribution and lynching them is better for the gameplan. Yet both of them were frustrating me so much so that as such, instead of making a case that focused on the first point and making a useful case, my sentiment got ahold of me and I instead ranted mostly about my second point and assumed that I  talked enough about my first one (probably never did). So people are only partially correct about my case. I was bitching about how lynching them is good, yes, but I also have an actual scumread on them, probably still do, in fact, but now I  am more cautious about my conclusions on these two right now cause I may be biased.

[DNAbc]

It's not exactly a surefire logical fallacy either.  On average, imo, town will post more than scum.  In any case I don't believe that just because bard is more self-conscious as scum precludes him from posting something flawed.  Bard isn't God.  Human error is a thing.

But bard's argument isn't exactly flawed, perhaps a better wording is that 'town=effort' is that its simply lazy. Bard is pretty obsessed to winning, and being more self-conscious as scum should prevent bard from posting something so prone to being attacked and not backing it up when prompted, which I see more as a town misplay instead of a scumtell.

[Raitaki]

I'm was voting him because of his pushing a policy lynch because it's scummy.
The same logic you use saying that pushing Policy Lynches is worth voting for...is the reason i'm voting DNA, it's not a policy lynch, it's a reason for me to vote someone.
If you are so against policy lynches why not question DNA over why he wants to lynch new players (low hanging fruit who he is discrediting for no reason.)

I'm not against policy lynches, again, I thought it was odd that you were voting him for pushing policy lynches instead of voting scummy people when doing that doesn't necessarily make him a scummy person. But rereading your and Murrin's posts in general, since you guys appeared to hold the opinion that a person shouldn't be lynched for just being a lurker, I'm assuming it's just community differences where we have no qualms with the occasional policy lynch and you guys view policy lynching as inherently scummy.
I guess that leaves the Zakeri case as the only major qualm I have with Shalako. But that could have just been bad logic/assuming the worst so whatever. ##Untarget

Still can't decide on anything much about Murrin that's not gut. I guess there's that thing DNA mentioned about Murrin just pointing out things without really going anywhere with them, but that alone isn't really enough basis to get this read beyond newbnull.

So the next best person to vote: ##Target: Shadoweh

[Raitaki]

I haven't dropped Shalako as a scum-leaning read yet, but currently my only reasons to lynch him on are pretty much consolidation level and not worth pursuing.

[Murrin]

I'll post my reads as I have time so:

I'm about halfway through reading Raitaki's post (through post 141) and my read on him is leaning Town. All his votes seem to have decent justification, and his votes, including vote switches, give me the vibe of genuine scumhunting.

[Murrin]

I'll post my reads as I have time so:

I'm about halfway through reading Raitaki's post (through post 141) and my read on him is leaning Town. All his votes seem to have decent justification, and his votes, including vote switches, give me the vibe of genuine scumhunting.

That should say halfway through reading Raitaki's posts

[Murrin]

Finished reading Raitaki's posts and my read of him hasn't changed. Still leaning Town.
I somewhat disagree with his reasoning for sheeping Bard's D1 Dormio vote (which means I also somewhat disagree with Bard's D1 Dormio vote) but I don't think it's scummy.

[Conqueror]

Okay. Roughly 24 hours left and only 4/10 people have votes down. Yes, that's right only 4/10 people have even bothered to fucking vote since the beginning of the day phase.

I'm was voting him because of his pushing a policy lynch because it's scummy.
The same logic you use saying that pushing Policy Lynches is worth voting for...is the reason i'm voting DNA, it's not a policy lynch, it's a reason for me to vote someone.
If you are so against policy lynches why not question DNA over why he wants to lynch new players (low hanging fruit who he is discrediting for no reason.)

What vote on DNA? You're not voting him. Also, you didn't answer the several requests to give a general reads list, even if it's not complete by any means. I realize this is probably not your playstyle but right now your opinions are blowing in the wind for me, even though you had a lot to say D1.
Also, I'm not sure I understand this. How is DNA pushing a policy lynch?

Bard is pretty much in modkill territory.

##Unvote
I want to lynch one of the people not voting because the sheer stagnation of today suggests that either scum is too lazy to do anything or they're happy with the position of the wagons. (Or we could just lynch bard anyway, but I like my double kills!)

[Conqueror]

Also, I just figured out what the deal with the drones is, so ignore my earlier question asking if anyone knew anything about them.

[Conqueror]

DNA is similar to Shalako in that he talks a bit about Murrin and Shalako but apparently cant be assed to back it up with a vote. He does have a wider breath of opinions ib the players though which makes me feel better about him, but still, why aren't you voting?

Murrin apparently having no reads today when he was very aggressive yesterday and willing to push people on D1-tier points is pretty surprising to me. Especially since even at the end of D1 when he said he was faltering on reads he had mild suspicions on Dorian/SB/Shadoweh. Did those lead anywhere or did you just completely drop everything from D1? Also re:what DNA does as town and scum. He employs those types of arguments as scum and town I think? Which arguments in particular are you talking about? Aggressive pushes don't mean much out of context unless a player has a meta of being more aggressive as a particular alignment, and I don't know enough about DNA to figure that out. Apparently you're getting a post/readthrough out now though so I'm looking forward to it.

Shadoweh is uncharacteristically absent from the game but I still have reasons to think she's town. Shadoweh, where do you stand on today on, well, anything?

Serela's case making reads fluffy to me. Though I often work off PoE'ing town reads like he did in #337, writing off that many people as town without a scumflip reads like half assed effort. There are also several reads that don't seem to match up with his D1 progression (DNA, Dormio/Dan being slightly town which would make more sense if Serela acknowledged Dan's posts but he didn't which makes me feel like he just went with the go with the flow option). I mean, I also change my reads frequently, but at the same time I'm also continuously reevaluating my reads in light of new information and I don't feel like Serela is doing that.
Also, Serela's latest post where he analyzes the four people he said he wanted to read. Little stuff like saying Shadoweh's D1 was just tunneling so he shouldn't use a meta read, but that just ends in "kinda suspicious." Raitaki and Bard are null (latter possible consolidation target) and Conq is town but in the end Serela has no real pushes, no scumreads, I don't get the feeling he cares about pushing anyone, just getting the content out there so people can see he's looking at people! Serela's D1 was better but generally inoffensive and so could go either way.
Also, meta. I'm pretty sure Serela!scum either ends up casing his buddies or has extreme difficulty casing townies so works off of nebulous PoE. Serela!town, even if he's waffly and can't express why he has reads, has actual reads, none of which I'm seeing.
I guess a better explanation for this is Gut  :V.

##Target: Serela

Also Serela forgot to answer my question but I'd rather he respond to this post instead.

Depends on how other people post I could also lynch a bunch of other people but let's get this going, 24 hours left.

[Conqueror]

There are also several reads that don't seem to match up with his D1 progression (DNA, Dormio/Dan being slightly town which would make more sense if Serela acknowledged Dan's posts but he didn't which makes me feel like he just went with the go with the flow option). I mean, I also change my reads frequently, but at the same time I'm also continuously reevaluating my reads in light of new information and I don't feel like Serela is doing that.

To elaborate
I don't actually have a problem with Serela getting unexplained town reads on DNA or Dormio/Dan
But it seems like a convenient way to narrow reads down to a "PoE" pool for arbitrary reason, which was how that post came across.
I do similar things as town (like writing off a wordy player after getting an early read so I don't have to read them thoroughly), but I don't feel like Serela's PoE process was genuine, especially with the followup that was extremely underwhelming. The entire effect is such that I think Serela is just trying to skate by by making reasonable but inoffensive posts and in the end just following people onto wagons.

I know there's probably a better way to word what I'm seeing but I'm not sure how to say it, so let's just go with gut again. Fuck, my entire case is basically gut, but let's roll with it anyway because I want to see where Serela goes from here. :V

[DNAbc]

In fact conq, that's the rest of my ability, you will be able to send it to whomever, and until the person afflicted by this status dies, I lose my beloved status. I entrusted that thing to conq because he's my strongest townread.

Losing my hardconf was the reason why I was reluctant to fullclaim it early. Part of it was also because I was optimistic during N1 that it would start discussions or even allow me to counterclaim, but nobody seemed to have taken note of that at all. Also, since this ability is borderline useless even if I claim, it seemed like a waste to do so until I have seen some useful content on that. But since this is obviously not happening, I want to make it clear this phase so at least there won't be any confusion over if its some scum shenanigans and whatnot.

Cut by 2

[Conqueror]

Huh, interesting. It's a little weird that you'd send it to a town read given what it does but then again you wouldn't want to send it to a scum read you couldn't lynch immediately. I'm not sure how it hardconfs you but it's a little weird to be a scum power especially with how it works.

The easiest way to hardconf you would actually be to test your beloved status while it's still active since scum beloved doesn't exist outside of stupid bastard setups. I considered trying to organize that but I don't think this town is organized enough to pull it off within a reasonable time limit so I scrapped the idea.

[Conqueror]

Maybe an idea to keep for the future if the threshold is smaller and DNA is still alive and can confirm he is still beloved.

[Conqueror]

Oh wait, I read that wrong, you lose the beloved status while the drones are alive. Okay ignore everything I just said.

[Conqueror]

Well, the idea of testing a beloved claim isn't a bad idea but it could always backfire with shenanigans and the fact that this playerbase is slow as molasses to move votes.

[Conqueror]

Also, since this came up earlier
Best Love Live: Umi
Best Im@s: Chihaya
This is indisputable fact

And now to sleep or me

[Shalako]

Before I go to sleep:

DNA, My main reason to suspect him is pushing Policy Lynches, however I've never once seen a Lynch-Resistant Mafia, and he mentioned Beloved D1 in one of his walls, so I need to reconsider him.
Dormio Replaced by ActionDan I didn't understand why people attacked Dormio's post where he said paranoid reads beyond it being kinda fence sitting but I saw it as clarifying his thought process and Action Dan I agree with not trusting people just because they put effort into the game.
-Serela(Biggest Suspect)/Shadoweh I need to reread since they are blurring in my mind. I know hate the Whole Policy Lynch statement because of how backwards  it is and saying "
"even if they're town we should lynch them" "I'm already biased to think you're bullshitting" but not Voting DNA?
-Raitaki Townie vibes,
-Bardiche ft. Skypal Hasn't posted a lot, Don't think Clearing People for effort is a good sign but I may just be influenced by Dan/Conq.
-Dorian Medium, doesn't really stick out anywhere.
-Conq Seems clearly Town, I don't think anyone doesn't think he's town?
-Murrin Town, gonna have to prove himself now that he's past being gunned down for the flailing. He knows why   :V
~~
Need someone to clarify for the Meta here if it's common to push Policy Lynches. I saw the lurker one not get hammered.
Where I'm from, Seeking non-behavior reasons to lynch someone is considered Scummy, and Serela thinks so because they voted me fighting a Policy Lynch because that's a Policy Lynch somehow and Shadow thinking DNA is scummy for Policy Killing.

[Murrin]

Alright time to finish my reads

Ok, so... thinking about Dorian after reading all of her posts.............. it's easy for someone to say "I'm having doubts about my Murrin scumread" after the wagon basically falls apart.  That's not a strong tell though. 

I think right now I'm getting a basically null read from Dorian that could very slightly lean Town or Mafia.  I would consider the suspicion against SB and the consolidation vote for lynch to be a point against her, but guess who had his vote on SB all the end of last phase and was willing to consolidate lynch Zak if necessary?  Me.  In other words, I can see where that would be coming from a Town player. 

I don't know what to think of Dorian's case against Bard tbh.  And for the record, I have looked back at Bard's Dormio case and I'm starting to doubt my disagreement with it's reasoning.  Dorian did bring up the timing of Bard's case so I'll think about that too.

-----------------------------

Looked at Shadoweh's posts. 

Tried to read Shadoweh but couldn't because I'm tired and because there isn't much content there to analyze.

Yeah I'm gonna go to sleep now.  Obviously didn't finish my reads but will do that tomorrow and will vote for someone once I actually get a scum read on someone, or a mild suspicion like yesterday.