FTL: Faster Then Light: Advanced Mafia (Sector 4, Scrapping Cycle)

[Raitaki]

Re: Shadoweh's targeting post
Yeah I agree it's suspicious that Murrin brings up a suspicion against Serela while defending all of his actions. His vote for Raitaki follows in that he things Rai is worse, but it also feels like his suspicsion of Serela is forced. He doesn't want to be caught not mentioning Serela but also doesn't want to pursue Serela. this doesn't mean Serela is scum though.

I don't see anything I could argue about in Conq's reasoning.

also I guess Dormio has a point in that Murrin defended Raitaki's vote and then ignored his own defense. Making both of his suspicions forced.

...which makes me think the whole wagon is bunk now all at once. I mean, i could just go an accept the reasoning that his suspicions are forced, but if I did that I would be forcing my own suspicions on him, and I certainly am feeling the pressure to move my vote from Conqueror onto Murrin's wagon. This probably sounds paradoxical, but as town I don't want to force my suspicions and so I'm forgiving Murrin for forcing his suspicions.

Still can't really make heads or tails of Zak's reason not to vote Murrin. Tried thinking hard about it, and if Zak saw the points Shadoweh and Dormio were making, and concluded that Murrin was suspicious, that isn't really "forced" anyway. The bit about being pressured to move his vote from Conq to Murrin is also baffling, and I can't see this pressure being a thing (except for the "pressure" to move away from his RVS vote, which in no way requires him to vote Murrin over any other scumread), which makes me think it was an excuse to say he would be forcing his suspicions on Murrin, thus creating this confusing "person A is doing thing B which I think town shouldn't do but if I vote them I'd also be doing it so I won't" situation.

Shadoweh is tunneling Murrin frighteningly hard despite it being just D1. Her content remains just accusing Murrin and dissuading Shalako's lynch. Not really liking it.

Kind of baffled by Shalako accusing Zak of not defending his "townreads" despite said reads occurring barely out of RVS. Currently Shalako's entire case on Zak seems to hinge on the assumption that Zak is scum. Then he turned around and voted DNA for the "lynch new players" thing, which I can't see a good townie motive for. You say DNA doesn't read you and makes huge wrong posts but don't really bother to point out the flaws, and on top of that you called him "misinformed" for justifying lynching new players. Since you didn't elaborate I'd have to assume the "wrongness" of those huge posts came from DNA being misinformed; if so, why does being misinformed and wanting to lynch new  players make DNA scum?

I intended to read more especially on Dormio and Conq since a bunch of people mentioned them being off but holy shit this ate like 2 hours of the remaining deadline so here have this dump first

cut by 7 ;_;

[Conqueror]

Also @Conqueror: What exactly is it that qualified Murrins last votechange as proactive scumhunting?

Fluidity of votes. I guess this is a player specific thing, but town are more likely to switch their votes around trying to find scum. Whereas tunneling is just a thing that town and scum do.

Although now that I'm looking back at the vote change, @Murrin, why the sudden decision that the SB case was stronger than the DNA case?

Does Shadoweh usually act like this as Town?  This feels kind of like hard tunnel visioning to me, which is basically what Shalako did Day 1 of the game he was Scum.

Shadoweh can hard tunnel as town and as scum. I don't have a read on Shadoweh at the moment because I can see how she'd be approaching your case as town, even if I disagree with what she's poking at.

It's no better than a coinflip but it's the choice that made me feel better about and I also believe that a DNA lynch would provide more information than a Murrin one.

What kind of information would this DNA lynch provide? Also, this sounds like Zak doesn't really think DNA is scum, especially after DNA basically apologized for being too hard on Shalako and moved his vote so Zak's original reasoning is stale.

I'd ask Shadoweh why she'd vote DNA??? over Zak or SB but she's gone for the day.

[Conqueror]

Lol votecount, SB isn't happening I guess so I guess I'll mull on it overnight but you guys suck, especially SB for, if he's town, not just voting me before he went to sleep and getting it out of the way. Cowardice is a scum trait m8.

SB, I'm not happening either, who would you vote of the viable wagons?

##Untarget
##Target: Zak

Would rather not lynch DNA or Murrin, and Zak's DNA vote looks like a bizarre park at this point rather than hunting for mafia. "More information" when Murrin has been a bigger target of controversy than DNA, please. Although I guess DNA becoming a wagon recently negates that, but "information" lynches on D1 are always terrible and I don't think I've seen Zak resort to that before.

[Serela]

shadoweh is voting Murrin, Conq

[Raitaki]

Copy-pasting from NNR and edited votecount for my own convenience

Battlemap Update 5.2
Serela (1): SB
Murrin (3): Dorian, Shadoweh, Dormio
Darkninja (3): Zakeri, Murrin, Shalako
WHMZakerei (2): Raitaki, Conq
SB (1): Murrin
Conqrueror (1): SB
Dormio (4): Bardiche, Serela, Darkninjaabc
Defensive Maneuvers:

A ship can withstand the combined fire of 7 ships before it is destroyed.
Combat Cycle will end in 4.5 Hours

[Conqueror]

It's hard to miss that. :V
I was referring to this:

If I were forced to I'd be more inclined to vote DNA then uh, Zak or SB or Serela I guess are the other options? Ew.

[Raitaki]

Dormio (4): Bardiche, Serela, Darkninjaabc

I meant three

[DNAbc]

I am actually kind of offended by conq's statement that people 'its contradictory to be able to post you are busy' thing. I want to post and am posting, even when I am aware that the quality of my recent posts are a mess because 1. its late 2. I am working on something else, specifically, I am crosschecking someone's 20000 word thesis (lots of graphs included) due tomorow in 7 hours. But I want to aid our scumhunt and make the best decision as I could before I just call quits and throw my vote somewhere I am not actually comfortable with and call it a day.

I do feel terrible for having such a shallow scope and keeps being tossed back and forth, I got completely moved by Shadoweh's emotional Murrin plea and was like 'oh yeah murrin is terrible' only to be reminded by Raitaki Shadoweh is hard tunneling. Any possible lynch at this point is good, and I will claim if necessary since my role can be hard confirmed.

cut by 3

[Conqueror]

Ew, that votecount. I'd like to know if the people on Murrin, DNA, or Dormio would prefer a Zak or SB lynch because I honestly dislike those wagons. Even if I think lynching DNA would be good for my health by cutting down the number of walls.

Went ahead and reread Dorimo. I may be biased because I was also voting Murrin at the time but none of his reasoning in that post seems terribly off to me, although the wording is confusing. And re: Bard's Dormio case, I see where you're coming from re: Murrin thinking Raitaki misunderstood nothing, but in context the juxtaposition was strange in that it immediately qualified his suspicion, so I can see how Dormio approached it the way he did. Eh, that just gave me a null read on Dormio like before. It would be helpful if he posted more, but at this stage I'd expect the mod to take care of it.

[Conqueror]

I am actually kind of offended by conq's statement that people 'its contradictory to be able to post you are busy' thing.

You misunderstood, since I post that I'm too busy to post all the time. The person in question kept on making excuses on why he could post but never bothered to give us even the teeniest drop to satisfy our thirst.

[DNAbc]

But I also just plain don't like the wagon on me, its formed by people who obviously lack their own opinion and have dropped off the face of the planet. They have too not been anywhere near day end and provided close to none productive content. I am also not sure in what way will my flip revealing more supposed abritary 'information' is going to benefit town more than getting a lurker lynched and easing the burden on town, especially when I know personally I can provide reliable confirm on my role even without me flipping, should that claim become necessary. In that case, I completely agree with conq, the wagon doesn't feel like scumhunting at all because its to punish my bad play and to redirect attention off themselves.

cut by 2

[Raitaki]

Hmm. I can sort of see what Bard was saying about Dormio. Sheeping this.

##Untarget
##Target: Dormio

Dormio is L-3. I'm still down for a Zak lynch, but I'm still not feeling a Murrin lynch.

Now that I'm willing to lynch two of the most likely wagons present, I guess I can take some time to read Conq.

cut by 2

[DNAbc]

I am walling longer and longer because I want Murrin and Shalako to goddamn understand. I am trying very, very hard to reach out to them but it just doesn't seem to bloody work.

In response to your SB argument which is apparently SB not posting his long promised post, I don't think its an important issue at this point because even if he did give us the wall we wouldn't have enough time to make use of it for our lynch effort today, it seems like a pretty reasonable choice to just post in chunks and explain in a concise manner, and while his arguments are indeed not completely valid, I can sympathize with them enough such that I consider the effort to stay at dayend instead of just vanishing and leaving us to deal with the mess pretty towny.

As such, Id prefer Zak over SB

cut by 1

[Conqueror]

Yes, that would be the reasonable thing to do before he went to sleep after playing moba with his friends since I imagine he had the basic outline up already.
But yes I prefer Zak over SB at the moment as well.

[DNAbc]

So it comes down to choosing between lurkers. But I honestly cannot recall what makes dormio a worse lynch candidate than Zak, can you answer please conq

[Conqueror]

Although I just realized Raitaki left me along on the Zak wagon. Dammit.

If I had to I would vote Dormio over the other options, but I don't actually have a scum read on Dormio and I doubt he'd be back in time to give us a claim. Plus he's at the point where I feel the mod should be dealing with a replacement or a modkill rather than player action given I don't think he's scum.

I'm kinda annoyed that everyone on the Murrin wagon has pretty much been there all day.

We should all move to Zak!

[Conqueror]

So it comes down to choosing between lurkers. But I honestly cannot recall what makes dormio a worse lynch candidate than Zak, can you answer please conq

For me, it's because I scum read Zak and don't scum read Dormio. I find Dormio's vote reasonable for the time it was posted, and in the end he's not the only one pushing Murrin for those reasons.
Zak's vote was also okayish for when it was posted (DNA being too aggressive with Shalako iirc), but his followup just confused me with talking about "information," which doesn't make any sense.

[DNAbc]

Battlemap Update 5.2
Serela (1): SB
Murrin (3): Dorian, Shadoweh, Dormio
Darkninja (3): Zakeri, Murrin, Shalako
WHMZakerei (1): Conq
SB (1): Murrin
Conqrueror (1): SB
Dormio (4): Bardiche, Serela, Darkninjaabc, Raitaki
Defensive Maneuvers:

copied from raitaki's post

[DNAbc]

we dont have enough people for a zak lynch, either way, cut by conqs newest post

[Conqueror]

*pushing murrin for similar reasons
Since a lot of the initial heat on murrin came about in that approximate post area

[Conqueror]

You say that but do you have enough votes for a Dormio lynch? Dormio was off the radar for most of the day and several people off the wagon have said they wouldn't like it.
Meanwhile I don't know many people who have expressed dislike for a Zak wagon and a number of people have been on and off all day. You could make an argument about how this makes Zak less likely to be scum but given all the wagons rising and falling and the number of alternate options I don't think that's the case.

[Conqueror]

I mean, I would vote Dormio for consolidation yes, but otherwise it feels like a crapshoot to me.

It would be helpful here to know who would be here for deadline. The Dormio wagon went from 0 to 4 in a short time, I know we can do something similar with Zak.

[DNAbc]

But wheras Dormio provided a conspiracy theory post where he went  'oh wait i am going to toss a jumble of theoretical scenarios and deny them, drop vote on Murrin' and then literally ignoring the game, Zakeri did make it clear he understands what arguments are on the Murrin wagon (although he did somehow ended up voting me anway), I personally cant pass judgement on which one is bad because both had been playing pretty terribly along with lurking.

And realistically, conq, we cant lynch zak, unless we have enough people.

cut by 3

[Conqueror]

The way you're saying it, Dormio and Zak both did something similar where they took a bunch of scenarios/arguments and then just ignored them. V: I think that's oversimplifying it since I'm not voting Zak for the initial not!Murrin vote.

I have to be off now, I'll be back before deadline.
Zak >>>>>> Dormio >>>>>>>>> DNA/Murrin

[DNAbc]

Unfortunately, I can't make it back before deadline, and  since we cant decide on a vote, I will drop this here.

I am a beloved townie, obviously I also have additional abilities. You will therefore not see me at L-2 even when you decide when I am asleep I am the wagon to go, so please plan this out accordingly.

I will be sleeping on my vote, night

[Murrin]

I'm going to refrain from going absolutely apeshit on DNA for criticizing me based on bullshit that isn't true (that my posts are completely devoid of content).

Yes, I know my posts don't have a lot of content, but to say they're completely devoid of content is just fucking stupid.

We got 8.5 hours left, as of this moment I am most willing to lynch Serela for flaky responses and Murrin for falling off the face of the planet when literally multiple players have directly questioned him for a response and hes going no-show.

It's called sleep.

And please cite the questions people asked me that I neglected to answer.  I believe I directly addressed all questions that were asked of me.

Now, I have a lot of analysis to do so a high-content post (with a likely new vote) is forthcoming.

Also, Mod: The votals have me currently listed as voting for 2 people.  My current vote is on SB.
Fixed

[Murrin]

I'm going to refrain from going absolutely apeshit on DNA for criticizing me based on bullshit that isn't true (that my posts are completely devoid of content).

Yes, I know my posts don't have a lot of content, but to say they're completely devoid of content is just fucking stupid.

Also, to say that I'm "not communicating nor interacting with the rest of the playerbase in a meaningful manner" is bullshit too. 

Anyway, time to digress.  Content post next.

[NekoNekoRex]

Battlemap Update 6
Serela (2): SB, Bardiche
Murrin (3): Dorian, Shadoweh, Dormio
Darkninja (2): Zakerei, Shalako
WHMZakerei (1): , Conq
SB (1): Murrin
Conqueror (1): SB
Dormio (4): Bard. Serela, Darkninja, Raitaki

A ship can withstand the combined fire of 7 ships before it is destroyed.
Combat Cycle will end in 3 Hours

Reminder that No Majority = No Ships Destroyed

Due to unexpected work schedule changes, it is unlikely I will be here for Deadline, unless the Cycle happens to end more then an hour early. I will probably have to rely on an extended twilight phase (if you want fluff), or a comod to flip for me.
I may extend deadline if needed, since it will accommodate my schedule better anyway, but don't abuse this possibility or I won't allow it.
Please understand.

i will be around for the next approximately 2 hours. I'm still deciding on an extension, although I'm leaning on it being somewhat likely I will allow it.  The extension wouldn't be long, do note, only a few hours so that I can end the day myself when I come home. obviously I won't be able to lock the thread on a hammer in any case, but I will post a flip as soon as I get home.

[SB]

Lol votecount, SB isn't happening I guess so I guess I'll mull on it overnight but you guys suck, especially SB for, if he's town, not just voting me before he went to sleep and getting it out of the way. Cowardice is a scum trait m8.

posting in mafia at 5am sounds fun right

(catching up now)

[WHMZakeri]

##Disengage
##Target: Dormio

just because I'm one of the problematic doesn't mean I can't consolidate for lynch.