※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines

[Kiefmaster99]

Does making commissioned artwork based on Touhou fall under this? Say someone tells me they want X Touhou character drawn so I do that on a computer and send them the illustration digitally in exchange for money. Should this be avoided?

Also, here are two existing examples that contrast with the point of not selling digitally(correct me if I'm wrong):
Rin Ginsuke
Imizu

Commissioned works are covered by the guidelines as an exception to the rule. From the Touhou Wiki:

Summary of Blog Update:
Reproductions of individual commissions are explicitly exempted from the restrictions on
commercial work (i.e. if someone commissions you to do something, it?s okay to then sell
reproductions of it in limited quantities as a doujin work)

[Kiefmaster99]

(Delete - accidental doublepost)

[Daya]

Does making commissioned artwork based on Touhou fall under this? Say someone tells me they want X Touhou character drawn so I do that on a computer and send them the illustration digitally in exchange for money. Should this be avoided?

[snip]

Actually a tangent to this question, a commissioned anything for that matter.

Say someone commissions a drawing, an animation, an arrange, or even *gasp* a game (if you hella ballin) for either private consumption or for later free public distribution ... I wonder what that would fall under (secondary sale is a definite no-no from what I am reading). Aside from art ... would other works fall under the same presumption.

An example strict guideline I've seen is Homestuck's Commissioning guideline where "only unique, two-dimensional images" is very specific and clear.

(*totally not referring to the icon she has*)

[Moogs Parfait]

Commissioning pieces of your project should be good on all accounts as long as you yourself are a major creative part of the project.  It's no different from paying someone to press CDs/DVDs or print books because you personally don't own that machinery and don't know how to do it yourself.  On the other hand I can't see someone's only contribution to a project being money being okay.  (Though it's hard to imagine any project with an angel investor not giving that person influence, even if it must pass through the skilled project member's revisions)

[Daya]

Commissioning pieces of your project should be good on all accounts as long as you yourself are a major creative part of the project.  It's no different from paying someone to press CDs/DVDs or print books because you personally don't own that machinery and don't know how to do it yourself.  On the other hand I can't see someone's only contribution to a project being money being okay.  (Though it's hard to imagine any project with an angel investor not giving that person influence, even if it must pass through the skilled project member's revisions)

Interesting! Definitely something that could be put up as a note re: full commissioned work.

I am making the presumption of a FULL work for private consumption and/or for later free distro -- with involvement of the person paying. Like for the Eridan x Aya commission, I had my artist go through 5 revisions, and dozens of corrections before we were both happy with what I got (and told said artist "I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO SHARE THIS EVERYWHERE").

Partials (a work towards a larger project) or later sale I would expect to be murky and probably should not be done (or at least not addressed with this particular question).

[Moogs Parfait]

I'm not sure if I answered your question or not?

Edit: Snip.  Will readd later maybe after checking sources

[Daya]

I'm not sure if I answered your question or not?

Yeah I presume commissioned privately used / for later freely shared two-dimensional art is kosher.

... but of other forms of media for Touhou Project fanworks (animations, games, music) -- would other commissioned work done in the same manner as two-dimensional art fall under the normal environment of a commission (such as how the Sistine Chapel's ceiling was commissioned by Pope Julius II by Michelangelo; amount of involvement in the commmissioner / patronage is of course presumingly substantial).

Environment of a commission is normal: statement it is not 'work for hire', that it is for commission, composer/writer/artist/whatever retains the rights to the work, the normal guidelines for fanworks of ZUN is otherwise met as if the patron/commissioner made it themselves, etc.

The question extends to almost all fanworks to kind of cover just about every possible imaginable situation for a person to commission a work (Hell why not, a fresco of Touhou fanwork on one's ceiling lol!).

I could imagine this being used for those that might be ... ballin' (but if you have that kind of money to completely commission a work ... well ... don't think we have 1%/0.5%'ers in MotK? Bueller? Bueller?). But realistically, I'd expect the most common would be 2d/3d art and music arrangements.

Edit: Oh you researching lol. okay. ^^;

[Moogs Parfait]

I'm actually working at my day job and taking care of my kid (I work from home half the week)  I don't really know the answer to things besides 2D art, I was hoping someone else knew.  I can look into it later but it'll be several hours/possibly a day

[Calamity]

-snip-

I see, that pretty much answers my question. Kiefmaster99(I can only see their reply when I am composing a reply for some reason) pointed out the answer was already in the guidelines about general commissions.

Summary of Blog Update:
Reproductions of individual commissions are explicitly exempted from the restrictions on commercial work (i.e. if someone commissions you to do something, it?s okay to then sell reproductions of it in limited quantities as a doujin work)

So much for my reading comprehension :V I suppose this means commissions for things like an Itasha are all fine and dandy.

[Shade_]

To answer more directly, no, this is not particularly vague at all. First and foremost, Danmaku!! is at the very basics a free to play printable card game. TTS is on Steam, but Danmaku!! is not related to Steam in any capacity. TTS is a sandbox game and has nothing to do with any user-made content.

If you weren't aware on how importing in TTS works, you literally just have an image of the cards to import.

Please take further discussion about Danmaku!! to its own thread.

So, in answer to our own question I looked up and it does indeed seem to be that you cannot engage in multilayer online without the incorporation of Steam (Correct me if I am wrong, if indeed steam is not necessary, but it appears you do need at least a Steam ID if I am not mistaken). This would prove that Drake's statement "TTS is on Steam, but Danmaku!! is not related to Steam in any capacity." is simply wrong because if you need Steam at all, then it is "related" in some way, shape, or form.

In the email I got, it strictly said that steam, Amazon, and Wii-U are "Not allowed" by ZUN. He did not state any specification or exceptions.

Now in this case, if what you guys say is true, and this in fact IS not infringing on the guidelines. Then it should be specifically added to the guidelines that while Steam is not allowed as a way of distributing your game. It can be used as a platform to connect for multilayer Touhou games.

If this is truly allowed, I think we should flush out the specifics so that we can inform other Touhou games their options when implementing multilayer on steam.

[Firestorm29]

Personally, I think it's a bit asinine demanding multilayer protocols get listed line item by line item as ok or not. And yes, Steam would be a protocol to connect with in this case.

[Daya]

I see, that pretty much answers my question. Kiefmaster99(I can only see their reply when I am composing a reply for some reason) pointed out the answer was already in the guidelines about general commissions.

Summary of Blog Update:
Reproductions of individual commissions are explicitly exempted from the restrictions on commercial work (i.e. if someone commissions you to do something, it’s okay to then sell reproductions of it in limited quantities as a doujin work)

So much for my reading comprehension :V I suppose this means commissions for things like an Itasha are all fine and dandy.

Oop. That answers my question too Thanks Calamity and Moogs Parfait! Definitely should be in the nice list up in the beginning. May not have many 1%'ers but there will be those that have enough money to commission something major (such as indeed an itasha) that just wants to do have it to well ... have it (I know I do!).

Though it would be hilarious to see a race to the top on the 'over the top' commission work for maximum fandom points *would compete .-.* But that point of information is going to be helpful for those that aren't sure whether or not any commission work (aside from 2d/3d art) is permissible. Then again, that is why there is itasha, murals, and I'm sure that there's commissioned arranges.

The last part is actually what I'm wanting to do with a fairly known band artist who is [REDACTED] (is a very close friend of mine that happens to be a bit famous). Will be initially a private work, but as part of the commission, request the work to later on be released freely and under normal doujin guidelines, with consultation with a lot of people before allowing its release. This is of course if I get the ability to! (And this is with great general directives that I would like to hear and such before a work can commence.)

[Edible]

Saijee/Shade/whatever, shut the fuck up.

If I see one more shitty trollbait whining post from any of you, I'm removing you all permanently.

Are we clear?

[Fulisha of Light]

I'm kinda confused about not naming your work "Touhou XXX"; The Last Comer, Mystical Power Plant, Riverbed Soul Saver, and White Names Spoiled Past all have the same format for their names. Are they excluded because they clearly state they are fangames? 

[N-Forza]

They all clearly state that they are fangames, which they would have to do regardless.

It's entirely possible that even Japanese fans aren't aware of ZUN's suggestion not to name things in a similar pattern after his works, since I don't think he made a huge deal of it.

[Fulisha of Light]

It's entirely possible that even Japanese fans aren't aware of ZUN's suggestion not to name things in a similar pattern after his works, since I don't think he made a huge deal of it.

Huh, that's interesting.

[Colticide]

I'm kinda confused about not naming your work "Touhou XXX"; The Last Comer, Mystical Power Plant, Riverbed Soul Saver, and White Names Spoiled Past all have the same format for their names. Are they excluded because they clearly state they are fangames? 

Pretty much what N-Forza said, the only issue is that these could be confused for official games to those who are new to touhou or new/outside of doujin. Personally I feel it better to started moving towards not using the Touhou XXX format and trying to come up with something else. You can still your Eastern but under a different name though, Touyou comes to mind as it means Eastern/Oriental if I remember, correct me if I'm wrong.

All this information is hard to grasp for me, I think it's just my lack of understanding that's making it difficult for it all to sink in.

[Uruwi]

Pretty much what N-Forza said, the only issue is that these could be confused for official games to those who are new to touhou or new/outside of doujin. Personally I feel it better to started moving towards not using the Touhou XXX format and trying to come up with something else. You can still your Eastern but under a different name though, Touyou comes to mind as it means Eastern/Oriental if I remember, correct me if I'm wrong.

All this information is hard to grasp for me, I think it's just my lack of understanding that's making it difficult for it all to sink in.

But Touyou can be confused with Touhou, right?

[Colticide]

But Touyou can be confused with Touhou, right?

In English it could, 東洋 and 東方 I would assume to be pretty different for Japanese. Both have similar meanings, but this isn't to say everyone should use Touyou, it could be an alternative to saying eastern/oriental.

Actually I wonder if having a title then the subtitle "A Touhou/東方 fangame/X". I'll just use mine as a example: Museum of Eastern Dream, would a subtitle A Touhou Fangame/RPG be OK? (Personally I don't think it would need it since only those who know doujin and touhou would be informed of what the game is about.)

[Omegahugger]

I'll just use mine as a example: Museum of Eastern Dream, would a subtitle A Touhou Fangame/RPG be OK? (Personally I don't think it would need it since only those who know doujin and touhou would be informed of what the game is about.)

I don't think it's necessary in the example you provided; it's not like it contains "Touhou" in the title (unless you're writing it in japanese, but your example was in english) so aside from a disclaimer somewhere in the game or documentation making it clear you don't own the characters/ect., that should be good enough.

Although....

Well, it seems one of the more common ways around this is to incorporate the name of one of the featured Touhou characters in the name of the game, e.g., Super Marisa World, MegaMari, etc.

......in the end there seems to be plenty of ways to avoid using "Touhou" in the game's title. Specifying a sub-title like "A Touhou Fangame" shouldn't be necessary considering it could only be posted in places where Touhou is already known and not having "Touhou" in the name should already make it clear to such people that it's a fangame. (Not that the standard boilerplate disclaimer shouldn't also appear somewhere, just in case......)

(At least that's how I understand this.)

[Colticide]

I don't think it's necessary in the example you provided; it's not like it contains "Touhou" in the title (unless you're writing it in japanese, but your example was in english) so aside from a disclaimer somewhere in the game or documentation making it clear you don't own the characters/ect., that should be good enough.

Although....

......in the end there seems to be plenty of ways to avoid using "Touhou" in the game's title. Specifying a sub-title like "A Touhou Fangame" shouldn't be necessary considering it could only be posted in places where Touhou is already known and not having "Touhou" in the name should already make it clear to such people that it's a fangame. (Not that the standard boilerplate disclaimer shouldn't also appear somewhere, just in case......)

(At least that's how I understand this.)

I knew I should have grabbed the JPN title as well, for the example it starts with  東洋 (touyou) I'm not sure why I left it out. But yeah it makes sense for a title to not specify what it is since if it's in a place like this then it's pretty much gonna be covered already. I guess if your displaying it as a "Touhou fangame" then that would mean you have intention of advertising it which =/= guidelines.

[Drake]

There are a bunch of ways that have become fairly common amongst the fandom. One of them, as mentioned, is using the name of a specific character, especially when it's a character-centric game. Using "Gensokyo" as a replacement also works well. Using five-kanji is also pretty standard fare. Personally I would avoid the same sort of cardinal naming schemes altogether (e.g. the previous 東洋 example); not because it's problematic but because it sounds pretty darn cheesy when everyone knows it's a Touhou fangame where you're trying not to use the name but you still sort of are anyways.

Again, the naming thing isn't a major point. Especially for STGs, 東方◯◯◯ is still really common. You shouldn't have to be deathly afraid to stamp 東方 in the title, but it also isn't something you should feel forced to try and incorporate either.

[Colticide]

I see, with the example I gave I wanted to try and avoid using 東方 because despite Museum being in the beginning, with the JPN title 東方 is in the beginning instead. (which confused the heck out of me.) I guess if it's not too much of a problem it could still work or just drop the JPN title all together.

(Sorry if I'm making this a bit off topic, just wanted to get some of my own concerns out of the way, it seemed to related but I'm still trying to understand all of this.)

[Ozzy]

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this but it relates to ZUN's guidelines so I guess here works. Although ZUN explicitly forbids use of game data in fanworks outside of screenshots, there are many fangames (e.g. The Last Comer, Mystical Power Plant, Fantastic Danmaku Festival) that very clearly use many sound effects from the official games, yet use completely original assets for everything else.

Are the sound effects an exception to the rules or are they ignoring them? I'm skeptical that the latter is true as the rest of the assets, including art and music, are completely original. Is it possible that ZUN's sound effects are not made by him either and are not under his ownership?

In light of this, would it be a bad idea for me to use some (very few) official sound effects in my game that I plan to sell at conventions?

P.S. Yes I've asked this question before but that was over a year ago and the answer I got wasn't very definitive.

[Uruwi]

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this but it relates to ZUN's guidelines so I guess here works. Although ZUN explicitly forbids use of game data in fanworks outside of screenshots, there are many fangames (e.g. The Last Comer, Mystical Power Plant, Fantastic Danmaku Festival) that very clearly use many sound effects from the official games, yet use completely original assets for everything else.

Are the sound effects an exception to the rules or are they ignoring them? I'm skeptical that the latter is true as the rest of the assets, including art and music, are completely original. Is it possible that ZUN's sound effects are not made by him either and are not under his ownership?

In light of this, would it be a bad idea for me to use some (very few) official sound effects in my game that I plan to sell at conventions?

P.S. Yes I've asked this question before but that was over a year ago and the answer I got wasn't very definitive.

Being done frequently does not imply "legality" (quotes since it's more like "we won't bother you"). I'd rather avoid the risk associated with using ZUN's SFXs.

[Romantique Tp]

Is it possible that ZUN's sound effects are not made by him either and are not under his ownership?

They were made by him, they're all edited sounds from his synth. Keep in mind that he may not be aware that these games use his sounds (or even know these games exist) and that if he is, he probably just couldn't be bothered to tell the authors to use something else. You should make your own if you want to play it safe, but you can probably get away with using the player death sound since it's pretty iconic to the series.

[Ozzy]

The only ones I wanted to use were the player death effect, the spellcard declare, and MAYBE one or more of his charge up sounds. I can do without most of the rest.

[gtbot]

Most of ZUN's sound effects are not his original creations; he took them from a source and modified them a bit (I can't remember the exact source). The fangames work around this by getting the sounds from the original source and working from there, as opposed to using ZUN's actual data. They could have recreated it themselves, OR they could have gotten them from Nico Commons, which hosts an abundant amount of Touhou-like materials. The users over at Nico Commons would still employ the same aforementioned method to recreate the sound effects.

[Ozzy]

Most of ZUN's sound effects are not his original creations; he took them from a source and modified them a bit (I can't remember the exact source). The fangames work around this by getting the sounds from the original source and working from there, as opposed to using ZUN's actual data. They could have recreated it themselves, OR they could have gotten them from Nico Commons, which hosts an abundant amount of Touhou-like materials. The users over at Nico Commons would still employ the same aforementioned method to recreate the sound effects.

I think I remember finding something like what you're talking about on Nico. Can you link me the page?

[gtbot]

The Nico Commons page?  http://commons.nicovideo.jp