Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)

[Reu]

No, look at Black Mesa.  The fans will wait.

In my opinion that might not be a fair comparison.

If Black Mesa didn't go anywhere they'd have the actual half life 1.

If it got finished then they have something extra

[Helepolis]

In the meanwhile, Ruw-san on twitter is still wondering why there is so much confusion and misunderstanding and assumptions made. But I guess it is due to the general noise of various responses and multiple questions/topics flowing. So it may be indeed pretty odd but I guess it happens. Original tweet: https://twitter.com/Ruw/status/558205796006117376


So yea, that is pretty much there. Up to FSS to decide what they want to do from now on. Their choices are quite obvious.

But Monhan had already pointed it out with Forza.
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17884.msg1159716.html#msg1159716
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17884.msg1159718.html#msg1159718


Moderation note:
Unless there is justified objection, this thread will reach its conclusion either tonight or tomorrow (as planned). I'll make another announcement when that time arrives and also explain the options if people wish to discuss the matter further, but that will be detached from this specific thread.

[Alcoraiden]

So we basically have one more night, because it seems Saijee and Shade and company have most of their time in the EST "late afternoon to early morning" block, if their post rate says anything.

[Savory]

Yeah, at this point it's up to them.

[Tengukami]

One problem I really don't think you guys are getting. The email was fromIGG and not TSA, right?

No, Shade_ and Saijee have claimed they've received e-mail(s) from TSA saying they can't make any Touhou games ever. They've also said they can't show us these emails due to privacy reasons. This is why Drake has suggested this stuff.

In the meanwhile, Ruw-san on twitter is still wondering why there is so much confusion and misunderstanding and assumptions made.

Ha, yeah, he's not alone...

[Helepolis]

So we basically have one more night, because it seems Saijee and Shade and company have most of their time in the EST "late afternoon to early morning" block, if their post rate says anything.

I think you're misunderstanding. This isn't some kind of deadline court decision they have to make. I am not pushing Saijee or his brothers to immediately make a decision. They can continue the decision making or debate in their Development thread.

I am just saying that specifically this incident will be concluded. The future of TSSB continuing or not is something to be discussed in his dev thread..

See, this is why Ruw-san said that we were running wild. :V

[Suspicious person]

One night remaining then? Well, it's a bit of a shame, especially since the thread seems to evolve towards a "let's convince FSS to go back to a Touhou themed game" direction. Can we at least not see wether FSS'll take the mail suggestion or not?

[Helepolis]

Eventually we need to all move on. We're now repeating things which we already been over with. I don't see a reason to keep to thread open tbh.

The convincing or requesting them to continue can be done in their development thread. It is there for a reason.

[Drake]

No, Shade_ and Saijee have claimed they've received e-mail(s) from TSA saying they can't make any Touhou games ever. They've also said they can't show us these emails due to privacy reasons.

Not quite, their reply from TSA they say to keep private was where they got the "copyrights aren't a problem" message, which we figure is not really accurate, hence why we asked for the actual contents. Then when the campaign was shut down they got the email from IGG notifying them of the takedown request, and were given a copy of the claim by TSA. The claim, as one would expect, details that the content of the campaign was not authorized and was infringement. This was then understood by FSS to mean they cannot continue development on Touhou derivative work, which is where they're getting the idea that this contradicts their earlier statement. In other words, we think both statements have been misinterpreted.

[Alcoraiden]

The dev thread seems to me like it'd be more about mechanics and the actual meat of the game than whether the game should be a certain way, which is still related to the ZUN thing.

Anywho, mod decision has been made, so I guess I'll roll with it.

DAWN OF THE FINAL DAY -- sorry, but the joke was RIGHT THERE

[Fulisha of Light]

Sorry for intruding again
Just a crazy thought, it would be really cool if all the Wii U counterparts are... male... cast fulls pretty/manly males
Again, just a crazy thought, but it would certainly set it apart from Touhou and make it seems like a cool parody counterpart as opposed to cheap expys
Again, just wild brainstorming, I am out again '^'

Now that would really be unique, I don't think any other Touhou fan game has done anything like that yet.

_{Sorry if it's little off-topic, but I thought it was a really cool idea.}

[Tengukami]

Not quite, their reply from TSA they say to keep private was where they got the "copyrights aren't a problem" message, which we figure is not really accurate, hence why we asked for the actual contents. Then when the campaign was shut down they got the email from IGG notifying them of the takedown request, and were given a copy of the claim by TSA. The claim, as one would expect, details that the content of the campaign was not authorized and was infringement. This was then understood by FSS to mean they cannot continue development on Touhou derivative work, which is where they're getting the idea that this contradicts their earlier statement. In other words, we think both statements have been misinterpreted.

Ah, my mistake. Thanks for the clarification!

What a wild ride.

[Omegahugger]

I'm glad in the end FSS finally took the time to discuss this with others and that the issue is being resolved (better late than never.....). Good endings are always better than bad ones. I wish them luck in their future endeavors and hope this thread will not have to be reopened anytime soon. =)

It's just a shame this ended up spawning so many misconceptions on YouTube..... Oh well. I guess time mends all wounds. It could have turned out worse.

[Paz legalces]

Sorry, for being late
I honestly don't think now is the good time to shut down the thread yet considering now there is a new issue to discuss regarding verifying the actual status of the copyright email and Zun's stance (although the answer is more than obvious). Then the discussion (again) of the viability of this project as a Touhou project given if the C&D is false... and various issues that can still possibly crop up in the long run (yeah, has happened a lot)
Unless there will be a new thread or the discussion of these tibits shall be moved into other thread (1 of the 2 other thread about TSSB), then I think we should need a tad more time before taking this thread down, in my honest opinion

[Paz legalces]

I'm glad in the end FSS finally took the time to discuss this with others and that the issue is being resolved (better late than never.....).

Probably got something to do with this btw
_{https://www.facebook.com/THProject/posts/10152975423819020?comment_id=10152976049599020&offset=0&total_comments=33}

[Firestorm29]

Sorry, for being late
I honestly don't think now is the good time to shut down the thread yet considering now there is a new issue to discuss regarding verifying the actual status of the copyright email and Zun's stance (although the answer is more than obvious). Then the discussion (again) of the viability of this project as a Touhou project given if the C&D is false... and various issues that can still possibly crop up in the long run (yeah, has happened a lot)
Unless there will be a new thread or the discussion of these tibits shall be moved into other thread (1 of the 2 other thread about TSSB), then I think we should need a tad more time before taking this thread down, in my honest opinion

I'd say it's less likely its a fake c&d against the game and more a c&d against the IGG campain.

[Omegahugger]

Probably got something to do with this btw
https://www.facebook.com/THProject/posts/10152975423819020?comment_id=10152976049599020&offset=0&total_comments=33

If that's the case, thank you for your efforts in getting them to come here and talk things through. I won't post my personal views on FSS as, at this point, I think it's best to just let the issue die out, but I willl say I hope you, Helepolis, Reu, Drake, and everyone else who took the time to discuss things with them have had a positive impact on their approach. =)

At this point, either they end up making it a Touhou fangame or something original. Either way doesn't matter to me but I hope it will be enjoyed by those who play it and be a positive step for them. This has been an extremely interesting thread and I'll say I learned a lot about doujin culture and the social aspects of game development.

[aUsernameIsFineToo]

This has been an extremely interesting thread and I'll say I learned a lot about doujin culture and the social aspects of game development.

I'll second that. This has indeed been an interesting development, and I think it serves as an important resource for any circles or individuals wishing to create their own Touhou-derived fanwork.

[Paz legalces]

I'd say it's less likely its a fake c&d against the game and more a c&d against the IGG campain.

Fake in the context of FSS think it was meant for their project and stated it as such
May be "misunderstood" would have been better
Regardless, please don't close the thread quite yet... please

[Helepolis]

The exact reasons that this thread will be archived is because of that.

Sorry, for being late
I honestly don't think now is the good time to shut down the thread yet considering now there is a new issue to discuss regarding verifying the actual status of the copyright email and Zun's stance (although the answer is more than obvious).

Yes, and I prefer to see that going into a different thread. Let us not forget that this thread originally was a part of the Development thread. I separated it for overview and keeping the original thread clean.  Now that we're indeed pulling into the next station, I prefer people to transfer from train :V

[Saijee]

Sorry if I'm being daft, but I don't see the problems with 2 mostly the same versions.

[Alcoraiden]

Splitting your efforts, presumably. Focusing on one thing will really help you buckle down and get it done in the kind of time frame you want. As someone who has the habit of taking on like 10 sometimes quite similar projects at once...it's easy to lose projects down the cracks when you have so many, or distribute your time so much nothing at all gets done.

[Prime32]

Sorry if I'm being daft, but I don't see the problems with 2 mostly the same versions.

I'm not sure if you saw my message before, but is it possible for you to produce actual Wii U discs or just eShop releases? In the former case you should be free to sell the discs at conventions/through your site/etc.

[Saijee]

@ Prime, Just eShop.

@ Alcoraiden, it's not really splitting efforts if it's literally the same game with a visual make-over: it's more akin to an official mod.

[Alcoraiden]

Bwuh? If you're not going to do a campaign again...and you're going to mod it for Touhou anyway...why not do it Touhou in the beginning?

[Colticide]

Sorry if I'm being daft, but I don't see the problems with 2 mostly the same versions.

I'm pretty sure it could be what the characters will be like. Gameplay is fine, you can't copyright gameplay mechanics (but god have companies tried), it's mostly with the characters really. If your Wii U version has character that are still very similar to Touhou characters from your TSSB game then there could be issues. If they look completely different but have a color palate similar then I believe it to be fine. Look at all the fighting games that do this, Filia from Skullguirls has a Fiona color pallet from Adventure Time. Having a maid character the uses knives is mostly pushing your boundaries, why not have green haired pigtailed elven maid who uses a giant hammer that inexplicably explodes into tuna when ever she attacks? That's just an example but it's a way to show you can use them as a base but you can turn them into something else entirely. There are many characters based on other things but as long as the end result is not, "Wait that's just X with a different hairstyle!" then you should be fine. I've made characters based on some Touhou characters and after working on them for long enough they became their own person with their own personality from what they were based on. (Ex in my case Yuugi and Utsuho)

[Fastest Thing Alive]

Bwuh? If you're not going to do a campaign again...and you're going to mod it for Touhou anyway...why not do it Touhou in the beginning?

I think it's because they want to get it onto Steam and Wii U. And of course, they can't do that if it's Touhou. I think it's supposed to be a workaround, emphasis on supposed.

[Alcoraiden]

Oh, so they're going to make it for the Wii U etc. but release a PC mod patch for Touhou? I...have no idea how that'd work out.

[Colticide]

Oh, so they're going to make it for the Wii U etc. but release a PC mod patch for Touhou? I...have no idea how that'd work out.

Well Diablo has a touhou mod here on the forums, I imagine it would work like that.

[Alcoraiden]

I guess if that works out, I can't really figure out a reason to tell them "quit the Wii U/Steam thing and just make it Touhou." Though a Touhou game starting out can gain lots of ground among fans as it travels to cons etc. But if the point is partly to learn how to make a Wii U game or whatever, I guess...eh?

But if the team puts out a mod patch for the game on the Wii U or Steam, will that count as illegal distribution for TLA's purposes?