NSP Mafia - Game Over

[Bardiche]

Bard, are you going to hate me for the rest of the day until I'm lynched, or can I convince you at all to consider other options during the day while operating under the assumption that I have been lynched and flipped town?

I've considered the other options, I just don't think any of them are as Pro-Scum as your slot. I've said multiple times that I think your slot is the worst, I don't know why you think I haven't considered other options. I've said that I dislike Zak for reactionary play and when I read his posts, a few more things come up that give me pause, but they make me look more and more towards Zakeri as being either ITP or a jerk who doesn't play Mafia but likes pretending otherwise. Shadoweh's marked lack of Townie spirit and normal effort is difficult to explain away but none of her actions are glaringly Pro-Scum or harmful to Town in the way that your slot is. NNR I keep reading, and I keep coming to the same conclusion. I think he's Town. Raikaria isn't Scum because we assume he's a Fruit Vendor, and there's as yet no reason to assume he isn't. BBM claimed Tracker and there's as yet no reason to assume he pulled a massive Bus Gambit on D2.

So what it comes down to is, if you're dead and flip Town, I need to see what's occurred during the night and what people post during D4 to really discern one way or the other who is Scum.


Cut by BBM. Still want the explanation where DNA makes perfect sense as Town.

also maybe this is looking too far into something small, but NNR's first D3 post after DNA claimed an inno on NNR was like "what is even going on anymore"

https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1118284.html#msg1118284

There's a pretty significant chunk of text between DNA's claim of NNR innocence and NNR posting that, why are you disregarding it entire?

[BigBangMeteor]

okay, if NNR flips town you guys can totally lynch DNA after I die tonight

I admit in part this comes down to gut, because while I can believe town!DNA panicking and faking Weak to get the lynch off him, even I have trouble figuring out why he would give a fake clear on his biggest scumread. But I just feel like DNA adds up to 9 and that the 4 is actually just another 3.

yeah there's a big chunk of text but how does that text alter the fact that DNA had to recant on his NNR read? Even if NNR was starting to think that DNA was scum instead, that reaction just doesn't seem right to me

[Polaris]

BBM:

Just gonna wait for the inevitable post where DNA either confirms me as town or makes up some bullshit reason why he didn't target me or got blocked.

Doesn't this make NNR seem more town than scum? NNR being confident about a town result doesn't seem like something that could come from scum, especially when they didn't know DNA was lying about his role.

I also feel like "NNR using the momentum against Raikaria" thing isn't too strong, since he was the only one to vote Raikaria at that point (since Bardiche unvoted a while before that). In terms of "momentum against Raikaria", Zak looks worse in comparison to NNR because he pokes at how Raikaria could be scum without even voting.

[Polaris]

oh well, if Bard isn't gonna say anything relevant to me for the rest of the day I may as well ignore all his posts

(ha ha ha, i bet that'll make him angry)

[BigBangMeteor]

yeah but NNR's vote originally came when Bard was still voting Raikaria, and regardless, the 180 on the FV thing still doesn't make sense.

I also thought about NNR making that statement but it could easily be WIFOM because what exactly is he supposed to say as scum? Please don't target me? And IIRC it was DNA who instigated the slapfight in the first place, not NNR.

[Bardiche]

I admit in part this comes down to gut, because while I can believe town!DNA panicking and faking Weak to get the lynch off him, even I have trouble figuring out why he would give a fake clear on his biggest scumread.

So... you demand of me to give explanations to everything to make a Scum!DNA work, but you can't give me the same courtesy of explaining why a Town!DNA works. And even though you can't explain a Town!DNA, you choose to believe that it's a Town!DNA anyway... because you think Town!DNA would panic at L-3 and 1 hour left, then lie about his role, lie about why he lied about his role, perpetuate the lie, then use that lie to give his biggest scumread a clear, and viciously insult and attack anyone that dares to imply DNA was lying about anything.

I'd lie if I said this made perfect sense. My frustration is such that I'm going to step away from this for a bit, and revisit it before deadline.

[BigBangMeteor]

Polaris if you're scum you should totally leave me alive until LYLO for a repeat of Unnamed Mafia from SF, where Bard was convinced Prims was scum but I voted him over Prims and town lost.

@Bard- yes? Honestly it feels as if Polaris is going to be lynched anyways so... shrug. I can only ask that you lynch NNR tomorrow and not Zak.

I'm also going to be out for a while.

[Polaris]

Whoops, you're right. Somehow I thought that Bard had switched to Zakeri before NNR voted Raikaria.

BBM pls.

[NekoNekoRex]

I dismissed my possibility on Raikaria scum on D3, because my role in my Mafia wasn't so broken it could do a useless action, kill, AND roleblock all in the same night. I guess Raikaria could be some weird overpowered scum but it's a lot more believable if he isn't.

Bard has essentially been calling out bullshit all day, and I think he's rather pro-town for that. I've also essentially given him a pass. If he's scum then he's doing a good job scumhunting worse people at least, so I wouldn't vote him anytime soon.

BBM also has a townclear because he tracked scum, so that's a thing I guess.

I dunno how BBM turned this into lining up lynches on me but that's kind of bad to assume in my opinion.

[Polaris]

no mention of zakeri or shadoweh? B(

Bard has essentially been calling out bullshit all day

and could you explain this

[NekoNekoRex]

Zak and Shadoweh haven't really posted anything this whole game, it's hard to even comment on them.

RE: Bard, basically the whole thing on DNA, and Raikaria, and followed by DNA's slot again. Bard comes off as very proactive town to me, he's been on-the-ball as far as I'm aware and he doesn't have to delve into weird nitpicky territory like BBM does to back his cases up

On Raikaria again, I don't really consider setup spec when I vote unless there's really damning evidence against it anyway. Yes, the possibility is there that he could be a multi-action what-the-hell role that I mentioned way earlier but apart from Raikaria going from having no cases at all to having just really shitty ones, there's not a whole lot of scum intent.
Okay, there might be scum intent on Raikaria after all. I am, probably, the easiest mislynch to make this game, considering my sup-par play, I'm just not seeing him as scum any more though. Call it gut I guess.

On DNA's ED2, I could have gloated but my interest in my game had taken such a dive that I didn't even want to bother any more, and DNA was pushing himself into his own trainwreck anyway. Why add more fuel to a fire I don't even want to delve into? I was essentially ignoring DNA by that point anyway, so I didn't care.

[Polaris]

Okay, I was worried you were saying that Bard was calling out my b/s or w/e and I was prepared to get all offended because everything I say is the shining pinnacle of towniness, but my worries were for naught.

[NekoNekoRex]

Also yes, I should point out that there were an overwhelming number of text blocks between DNA's 'clear' and my post. It was a bit overwhelming.

or is that too obvious of an explanation

[NekoNekoRex]

I think the nitpick about Raikaria from BBM is sort of a load.

He can bring up that I can argue Raikaria has an odd role, but I can just as equally argue there are other far-fetched-but-plausible rolespec theories I could bring up. BBM could be a tracker fake that threw Skypal under the most convincing scum bus ever, and win the game from that alone, but does that mean I should visit that and vote BBM for it?

[NekoNekoRex]

BBM's priorities seem really bizarre and hard to explain. He didn't even try to look for Skypal's scumbuddy D2, he was just focused on getting rid of Skypal, and today he's making this bizarre defense of Polaris, who rightfully should be lynched over his role claims, and refuses to back up an explanation of why it makes sense.

I only wish there were three scum because he makes some sense as a third wheel in this game.

[Polaris]

uhhhhhhhhhhhh

nnr are you serious

[Polaris]

I am starting to doubt NNR because of that.

[Raikaria]

I'm mostly voting Polaris at this point because my 'DNA isn't that stupid defense' is inherently flawed [Which means the slot could be scum despite the actions being illogical as scum and since lying about your role isn't pro-town Bard has a case] combined with the fact that despite me trying to make a case I can't convince people.

I'm someone who throws up curiosities and asks questions and other people make cases from that. I'm not good at actually making cases and convincing people. It's a recurring thing. I'll cause something to happen which leads to evidence and a correct lynch sometimes; but when it comes to me actually getting who I want lynched lynched? Oh god that's bad.

I mean; I know what I'm doing tomorrow if Polaris flips town. I'm going to try and get the worst of NNR/Zakeri/Bard lynched. All three have good reasons to be lynched, especially if Polaris flips town. [*Looks at Bard*] NNR's being his general Day1/Day 2 and some Sky interactions which I have already outlined; Zakeri being his general lack of... anything and Bard for pushing on townies several times and generally doing things I disagree with.

But I still think Shadoweh is town.

Although I still think Shadoweh should really post more. Unfortunately the Vendor is out of fruit so I cannot throw more tomatoes at her.

[Polaris]

Raikaria, if you disagree with Bard's case on me, then I think you should stick to your beliefs and not vote me just because Bard tells you to. 8( Do you at least agree/disagree with what I say about Zakeri? Or what BBM says about NNR?

[Raikaria]

I don't disagree with Bard's case. Before I did because I was convinced 'DNA cannot be that stupid'.

Then I decided he could be and Bard's points are pretty valid :/

Of course I'd like to see NNR lynched. I made a pretty big case on him. And I'm not fond of Zakeri this game either.

Honestly at this point lynching any of 4 people is good. Especially due to interactions and such.

[Raikaria]

I mean at this point I can see perfectly valid reasons for DNA/Polaris; Zakeri; Bard and NNR being scum.

And it's hard for me to judge which of the four is most likely; while also convincing others that this is the case.

[Polaris]

Well I mean, first off you have to convince yourself before you convince others B(

Meanwhile, I've started suspecting NNR due to him posting about how BBM is scummy, which is incredibly bizarre.

[Polaris]

I wanna talk to BBM again 8( His obvtowniness and his Pok?mon avatar give me strength

[WHMZakeri]

##Vote: NNR
I really super mega ultra deluxe do not like the wagon on Polaris, what is even going on here?

[Polaris]

NNR: Pitiful Townie or Criminal Mastermind?

1.
NNR's cases have largely consisted of riding on the coattails of others' cases. BBM cites NNR's vote on Raikaria in Day 2 as an example; NNR's vote on me is another example, given that he initially accepted my claims but changed his mind while under the influence of Bard. This could be simply a consequence of Bard being loud and annoying, but is it possible that NNR is a scum mastermind taking advantage of others' cases in order to appear like he's scumhunting without actually putting in the effort? Furthermore, he goes an extra step to discredit BBM's opinions. The reason? Perhaps he is scum, trying to force a mislynch on me. Or perhaps he is just confused and disoriented. Is NNR deserving of our sympathy, or should we lynch him?

2.
NNR has made several supposed "townslips" during the game. First of all, he asks the mod whether scum are able to act and kill in the same night. Secondly, he mentions how SB hadn't been posting, having "forgotten" that SB had been killed overnight. Normally, scum would be aware of both those things, so at first glance it seems unlikely that NNR is scum. But! There is the possibility of scum faking obliviousness as an artificial way of boosting his "town cred", so to speak. The question: is NNR cunning enough to be capable of such a deceptive art? Or is NNR actually just unaware?

The mystery deepens. More after the commercials.

[Polaris]

NNR: The Investigation Continues

3.
NNR seemingly contradicts himself in Day 3: following my claim, he says he'll be set on Zakeri or Shadoweh. However!! Recent posts have revealed that he is absolutely unconcerned with either Zakeri or Shadoweh. His comments on Bard and BBM seem out of place as a result, since they are hardly due for a lynch any time soon. What is the reason for this discrepancy? Is NNR just town, faltering on his own opinions? Or is he scum, who never had opinions to begin with?

[WHMZakeri]

Okay, I've read Bard's full case on Polaris DNA and it looks super sound except for the fact that it's a policy lynch.

[WHMZakeri]

And for the record, no I didn't read it in full before my last post, which is why I didn't really mention him, he's definitely jumped over Shadoweh with this move, and I intend to use this against him if Polaris is lynched and flips town.

[Polaris]

Obviously the conflicting claims play a weird part in here too. I can't imagine why he would target Zak N2 even if he had a pointless role, he was clearly aiming for me with his bullshit claim, and it would be rather strange if he got tracked doing the unexpected route.

Just saw this when I was looking over NNR's posts again. NNR, are you seriously making the same mistake as Bard by going "Polaris is telling the truth" -> "DNA is lying" -> "DNA is scum" -> "Polaris is scum"? Because I already had this discussion with Bard B(

[Polaris]

oh yeah there's also 4. NNR's post where he condemns Raikaria (town heroism? or scum exasperation?) and 5. it is extremely easy and convenient for scum to mislynch my slot to death (but NNR could just hate DNA)