NSP Mafia - Game Over

[Polaris]

But I can assure you that I will not be voting Polaris today barring some outright damning evidence other than 'DNA told a stupid lie that doesn't even make sense to make as scum'.

Fine; we'll do this your way Bard. I'll assume DNA is a moron. And hell; Polly doesn't even seem to want to play after what his slot's done.

#Unvote
#Vote: Polaris

someone print this out and frame it

[Bardiche]

DNA was saying Skypal was "townie obvtown" in his D2 opening post because Skypal had just done Announcer shenanigans overnight.

There's no basis to claim that DNA thought the Announcer shenanigans were Confirmed Town shenanigans, since he didn't mention the announcement at all. I'd think if DNA swung from "SkyPal is scum" on D1 to "SkyPal is obvTown" in D2 because of an Announcer post, he'd have mentioned something to that effect.

What is it about Zakeri/Sky Paladin interactions that makes you vote Zakeri, Polaris?

I'm actually kind of offended that you're implying I don't want to play B(

Check:

I instantly lost all motivation to play as soon as i realized how much utter nonsense my slot was responsible for up until now.

You did kind of say it yourself.

[Polaris]

whatever bard you don't know me

[Bardiche]

##Unvote
##Vote: Polaris
That's L-1.

Cut by Polly.
and this is crazy
but here's my number; so call me maybe?

[Polaris]

in fact you should be sympathizing with me, i'm the one suffering the most here B(

I posted my thoughts on post #370, which you might have overlooked. Jeez Bard, did you think all I was doing was refuting your silly logic against me?

Also I forgot Zakeri did make a post today because I was distracted by the stuff with NNR/Raikaria that happened afterwards.

[Bardiche]

I posted my thoughts on post #370, which you might have overlooked. Jeez Bard, did you think all I was doing was refuting your silly logic against me?

I mean, where are these "potshots"? Mostly interested in the "potshots" Zakeri is taking at Sky Paladin, since I consider the actions of just SKy Paladin to be insufficient grounds to vote Zakeri.

[Polaris]

I'm not sure where DNA says Skypal is Confirmed Town with capital letters like you're implying, anyway ?_?

[Bardiche]

I'm not sure where DNA says Skypal is Confirmed Town with capital letters like you're implying, anyway ?_?

Reference

That said we pretty much have three townie obvtowns at this point. Me, skypal and BBM. The rest is easy.#

[Polaris]

This post (which I quoted earlier on the post I voted Zakeri) isn't really "hey look at the scum that the tracker just got a guilty on" (which you'd think is pretty important) and more making a passing mention of him.

^ that ain't "Confirmed Town" yo that's "townie obvtown". the wording is vastly different

[Vhaltz]

Really, Ninja Brian? During Day 3? I can't stay mad at you.

Zakeri (1): Polly-kun
Polly-kun (3): NNR, Raikaria, Bardiche (L-1)

With 7 alive, 4 votes are required to hammer. There's 26~ hours left in the phase.

[Polaris]

I also think "DNA vs. NNR slapfight" is not a good reason to make NNR into scum because the whole thing was all sorts of irrational.

[Bardiche]

Granted on the ObvTown vs ConfTown statement, it still seems a massive swing from "this player is scum" to "this player is obvtown" without mention of anything. I hold that there's no basis to say he said it because of announcer.

This post (which I quoted earlier on the post I voted Zakeri) isn't really "hey look at the scum that the tracker just got a guilty on" (which you'd think is pretty important) and more making a passing mention of him.

It's not exactly a potshot here, is it? I feel like you exaggerated that part a little. This is a good point against Zakeri, re: complete and utter lack of acknowledgement of a Tracker result, but his earlier post does acknowledge that there's a wagon on Sky.

In any case, I'm mostly a little worried since there's so much that can be said about Zakeri, but you choose "scum interactions" and "potshots".

[Bardiche]

I wish Shadoweh and Zakeri could bring up the motivation to play the game they signed up for.

[Polaris]

potshots is probably not the right word, but I hope the idea got through. B( The fact that he acknowledges a wagon on Skypal is what makes him look bad because he's just riding the wave of everyone else hating Skypal.

jeez Bard, I'm a little worried since there's so much that can be said about Zakeri, and yet you vote me instead. I think scum interactions and (not-so-)potshots is a totally valid reason to vote him.

[Polaris]

I mean, if you want me to repeat what you said about doing nothing for D1&D2 (or, in your words, "utterly reactionary play blah blah no initiative whatsoever etc.") then I can. It is kind of obvious, though.

[Polaris]

I don't know where else to put my vote, Zakeri, Shadoweh and NNR seem incredibly tame in comparison, and the one thing that stands out to me is Zakeri reactionary play, but even now Shadoweh persists in staying by the sidelines and it's all Normal Shadoweh Behaviour. I honestly think Scum must be among those three then, because if Polly really isn't the Scum, then I can only imagine the real Scum to sit back and let the rest fight over it. It's unfortunate that three people exhibit the exact same behaviour but if that's what we're hunting for, it's what we're hunting for.

Basically, if there's "so much that can be said about Zakeri" then you really shouldn't have had any trouble choosing Zakeri from the three here, instead of being all wishywashy about it.

[Polaris]

So basically, I feel like you're just disparaging me because you think I'm scum. B( That ain't cool, yo.

[BigBangMeteor]

Still don't want to lynch Polaris; his posts have a town feel to them, and even though he's defending himself, his posts doesn't have the super panicky spam sense that they did in IWBTS as last scum getting lynched. Also Bard has still made no attempt to say why Sky/DNA decided to bus each other D1. I remember in Villains 2, DNA got kind of mad at me when I started bussing him D1, and the only reason I didn't drop the case was because too many people agreed with me for it to be safe. I think Skypal, on the other hand, could have way more easily dropped it if DNA had yelled at him in the scum QT to do so.

urgh I somehow feel as if scum!Zak as last person claiming would have claimed a PR knowing there was nobody to CC him. But then as town VT in that situation I'd claim Doc soooo. bleh probably a nulltell

#gut ##Vote: NNR will expand on this in next post

[Raikaria]

someone print this out and frame it

I forgot a very useful quote:

Only two things are infinite; the Universe and Human Stupidity. - Albert Einstein.

That in itself is enough evidence to not completely write off the DNA thing as 'DNA would be stupid to do this'.

[Polaris]

I forgot a very useful quote:

Only two things are infinite; the Universe and Human Stupidity. - Albert Einstein.

That in itself is enough evidence to not completely write off the DNA thing as 'DNA would be stupid to do this'.

if human stupidity is infinite, i would think it would serve as better evidence to the notion that DNA would indeed be stupid to do that. strange use of a quote, tbh

[Polaris]

BBM: If you only cite the DNA vs. NNR slapfight then I will be disappointed. B(

No, he doesn't have scumreads.

Day 1 he voteparked on Poly for almost entirely the whole day, finally switching to someone else 2 hours from deadline on SB with a token complaint, before consolidating. SB is now dead so the read barely even applies anymore, and DNA is essentially confirmed town.

Today so far he's gone and voted essentially confirmed scum, which takes about as much effort to find as skimming the thread and looking for the confirmed scum post. Aside from that he's complaining about people voting him, which is equally worthless because his defense is garbage.

Town reads are basically worthless unless you have enough of them to PoE the scum, which Raikaria has not, and anyway townhunting is not a worthwhile (or smart) undertaking anyway.

Raikaria is being accused of doing nothing because he IS doing nothing.

I particularly liked this post of NNR's because it was very clear-cut and straightforward, and I thought Raikaria needed to be called out on this anyway (when I was reading the game pre-replace), so I was really glad when NNR did. It's a shame NNR's play deteriorated after the whole DNA thing but NNR really seems town to me.

[Bardiche]

Basically, if there's "so much that can be said about Zakeri" then you really shouldn't have had any trouble choosing Zakeri from the three here, instead of being all wishywashy about it.

I have more to say about your slot is the issue.

Bard has still made no attempt to say why Sky/DNA decided to bus each other D1.

I feel like there's this heap of stuff that all points to DNA being either Scum or batshit insane Town, and you choose to favour the latter because not every little thing is accounted for.

Sky Pal and DNA could have decided to bus each other D1 because they're both terrible at making up cases? Sky Paladin didn't intend to bus DNA, because his vote here is easily retractable (and the bulk of the post isn't about DNA)? Maybe ScumPaladin tried to convince DNA to vote in the ScumQT, couldn't, decided to vote there because he couldn't make up a believable case elsewhere? If you look at DNA's vote, it's Not Me Over Me, then he tries to validate it afterwards so he can take credit for a Sky Pal lynch but uh... he doesn't actually try to bus Sky Paladin at any point before that?

His explanation post isn't backed up by his previous posts where he hardly talks about Sky Paladin.

I don't feel like either of them tried terribly hard to get the other lynched, so in spite of claims that they were "bussing" each other, it moreso feels like SkyPaladin trying to bus DNA (and note that he did freak out at Sky Paladin) and DNA being forced to vote Sky Paladin near phase-end for NMOM.


Like, seriously, it feels like you've already made up your mind and are grabbing at little things to say, "Well, everything you say is invalid because there's still this little thing."

Tell me honestly: You believe then that DNA was just Town set on intentionally disrupting the game and throwing nonsense all over the place? You think it's more believable that DNA wanted to disrupt the game than it is that DNA was trying to play to Scum's wincon?

[Bardiche]

I don't mind if people tell me I'm wrong and that I'm completely up on the wrong tree, but please understand that it's rather frustrating when the bulk of comments as to why you believe the lynch should go elsewhere is, "DNA is too stupid to play the game properly" and "you haven't explained everything yet, I'm not convinced!"

Even in criminal law cases the objective is to show that the scenario in which the suspect is the culprit is more likely than the scenario in which the suspect is innocent.

Okay, I'll counter it then. BBM, how do you explain Town!DNA lying about his role and lying about clearing NNR Night 2?

[Bardiche]

Poly's lack of panic can also be rationally explained by "he just subbed in and isn't that invested in the game, even if he loses now it's not due to him but due to DNA's fuckups". Why would he panic?

[Raikaria]

if human stupidity is infinite, i would think it would serve as better evidence to the notion that DNA would indeed be stupid to do that. strange use of a quote, tbh

No; it means that it's plausible that he is stupid enough to make that play as scum, and thus writing it off as making no sense and stupid is pointless.

[Polaris]

Bard, are you going to hate me for the rest of the day until I'm lynched, or can I convince you at all to consider other options during the day while operating under the assumption that I have been lynched and flipped town?

[BigBangMeteor]

@Bard- Do Polaris's actions so far seem to be those of someone not very invested in the game? That would need to be the case for him to not get panicky as scum about to lose IMO. I'll admit that you have a good case for DNA/Sky interactions not being as bussy as I thought they were originally. But- if you believe that DNA is scum capable of massively screwing up his claim, why do you not believe that he's capable of making massive fuckups as town? idk maybe this is coming down to gut but I just don't feel as if the slot is scum. And personally if I was the mod I would reroll if the scumteam was comprised of 2/4 of the most inexperienced players (Sky, DNA, Junko, Poly). shrug

NNR

Didn't like the early Zak vote. I dropped it later because I disliked Zak's vote on me more but in hindsight his expansion on why he voted there originally is not really any better. It's more talking about why PRs != scum even though again, Zak's vote was not about that. And yeah Zak wasn't doing much else but nobody was really so? Moving forward, I don't actually think his DNA vote D1 is bad (probably the best D1 vote on DNA) but I really don't like the Raikaria push on D2.

He acknowledges that Raikaria is a Fruit Vendor but says something along the lines of "could be a role like my Terrible Trio in Villains 2". This is a good point against clearing Raikaria for being a FV when we know there's a Hooker but then later he completely forgets about it apparently and just goes like "yeah Raikaria can't be scum Hooker cuz he's Fruit Vendor" and maybe this is just a coincidence but I don't like that the first time when he dismissed FV, Raikaria was a wagon and a lot of people thought he was Sky's buddy, and then when he agrees with it as a reason why Raikaria is town, Raikaria isn't a wagon... it just feels really heavily like he was trying to pile onto the momentum against Raikaria at first, and then unvoted once he realized that it wasn't there anymore.

Not gonna talk about the slapfight with DNA cuz I think that a lot of the stuff he said there was correct but most of the slapfight was about roles and logic and stuff that's easy to be correct about as scum. He talks a little about Zak D2 as well and it's mostly okay but he also doesn't really follow up on it today, at all. His play as a whole feels very tunnelish- I can't remember any point in the game where he was scumreading more than one person at one time, and this is something I have to force myself not to do as scum a lot of times.

[Bardiche]

"why do you not believe that he's capable of making massive fuckups as town?"
Because as a Town player, it doesn't make sense for him to go that route to begin with.

BBM, how do you explain Town!DNA lying about his role, and then lying about his N2 target to produce a fake clear on NNR? You're asking me to explain the bussing, which I did, and then you still refuse to believe. I think the least you can do is explain to me how you see the Town in all this. To me, it just looks like you're adding 1+2+3+4 and then refuse that the outcome is 10.

[BigBangMeteor]

also maybe this is looking too far into something small, but NNR's first D3 post after DNA claimed an inno on NNR was like "what is even going on anymore". IDK about you guys but when someone who instigated a huge slapfight with me has to admit I'm town (and I am fully qualified to speak on this topic), that's not going to be my reaction. Depending on exactly how frustrated I am (probably not THAT frustrated since in this situation I'd have had a night phase to cool off), my reaction would range from "seriously dude wtf was your case against me" to "HA TOLD YOU SO". And NNR is a person I've seen gloat in the past, and I feel he would, here.

Unless, of course, he was actually scum and knew that something was fucked up somewhere.

[Polaris]

Bard, I'm a bit worried for your sanity when I flip town .-. Please at least set up a Plan B so that you don't lose your mind.