Author Topic: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: NSP Mafia)  (Read 144432 times)

NekoNekoRex

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #720 on: June 18, 2014, 06:50:21 PM »
I'm still down for the count as far as joining games goes. I wasn't feeling it last game and ended dropping out, so I'd rather not get anyone's hopes high just for the same thing to happen.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Raitaki

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #721 on: June 18, 2014, 07:25:06 PM »
Graduation is today, so I'm finally free. I'll /in for the current game.
[08:23 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki on a scale of 1 to 10 your current mafia game play is annoying as fuck
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- Raitaki, if both of us ended up as mafia
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- I would be so angry
[08:25 pm]  Aristocrat -- that I will snap and give into my rage

ActionDan

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #722 on: June 19, 2014, 02:42:30 AM »
only 4 ins so far.

And I thought the season was summer for the hemisphere that actually matters

Don't lynch me.

Conqueror

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia)
« Reply #723 on: June 19, 2014, 02:54:08 AM »
It's unconventional but all open-source. For 3n players, n scum and 2n town, n lynches and n-1 night kills, graveyard votes for one living player to win along with their faction. Dead Scum can still post in qt. Kibitzers not allowed into graveyard. I think that's all the rules.

My issue is that even if I wanted to join a mafia game right now, I don't think this setup is playable.

3 players gives one lynch and one nightkill and the graveyard votes for a living player to win? How is scum supposed to win in LYLO if the graveyard can just vote for the other person in the 1v1? Are these graveyard votes every phase or what? If you win, do you have to keep playing?

Basically I don't understand what's going on with the setup. Too many loopholes and unanswered questions.


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #724 on: June 19, 2014, 02:55:54 AM »
I'm pretty sure that it's virtually impossible for scum to win bar the town in the graveyard becoming literal potatoes.

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia)
« Reply #725 on: June 19, 2014, 03:02:32 AM »
3 players gives one lynch and one nightkill and the graveyard votes for a living player to win? How is scum supposed to win in LYLO if the graveyard can just vote for the other person in the 1v1? Are these graveyard votes every phase or what? If you win, do you have to keep playing?
3 players give 1 lynch and no nightkill. The dead player votes amongst the two living players to decide the winner.
So what scum has to do in a LYLO situation is to get town lynched without hammering. Good luck with that.

Serela

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #726 on: June 19, 2014, 03:15:01 AM »
Let's assume you have 9 players. There will be 6 town, 3 scum, 3 lynches, and 2 nightkills. The game will have 4 players alive in "lylo". When the game hits lylo, the graveyard decides which living player's faction wins the game. (Or, in other terms, the graveyard votes for who they think is most certainly town out of the 4, and that person and their faction wins)

When you consider the graveyard is usually pretty sure who is scum, it's a thing. When you consider it's usually because the mod gives a hint (or more than a hint) and that scum meta would be different in this setup due to the different win condition (They have to look as town as possible, instead of having to outnumber the town), it becomes a good question exactly how townsided the setup is. I'm honestly not sure!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 03:24:46 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #727 on: June 19, 2014, 04:16:34 AM »
You're not taking into consideration how the lynches and nightkills will occur though, Selery.
Like, I dunno, it seems really townsided to me when you take away the negative aspect of mislynching and turn scum's nightkill against them.
Like optimal scum strategy is to mislynch and nightkill the derps except that leaves the actual threats to scum alive to out them for the graveyard.
Alternatively, if you nightkill the threats to town, they get to voice their opinions in the graveyard and all they need is one townread.
And things get much, much worse for scum if a single one of them get lynched.
I dunno man. Can't say I'm a big fan of the setup.

Conqueror

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #728 on: June 19, 2014, 04:27:39 AM »
Let's assume you have 9 players. There will be 6 town, 3 scum, 3 lynches, and 2 nightkills.

This was my other question about the setup since it's not worded clearly. In this situation, are the 3 lynches and 2 nightkills all in one day/night phase? Because if that's the case, town is in D1 LYLO.


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #729 on: June 19, 2014, 05:18:28 AM »
I'm working off the assumption that lynches and nightkills occur as they would in a standard game.

Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #730 on: June 19, 2014, 07:16:03 AM »
This is definitely not getting 9p, you should begin it at 5/6p with only one mafia.

This game doesn't seem like mafia to me to be honest, more like something inspired by it (like Resistance for example).

O4rfish

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #731 on: June 19, 2014, 08:07:48 AM »
Instead of debating whether this setup might be unbalanced, why not sign up and run the test?
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Shadoweh

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #732 on: June 19, 2014, 09:32:53 AM »
Because no one debating it wants to play your game, man. People want to play living people mafiers.
We've gotten 16 people for a setup before, it's entirely based on who's running and how much fun it sounds. And people's moods.


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

CF7

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #733 on: June 19, 2014, 09:44:16 AM »
/in as
a wonderful Day 1 lynch slot!
Sometimes rumors are just... rumors

DNAbc

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #734 on: June 19, 2014, 09:46:51 AM »
The problem with that people not signing up is that we don't think this will be a potentially ''fun'' game. Nobody likes to /in a game when the odds are completely against either side (well maybe unless you harbour some specific hate to the players or is outright sadistic). While this may be easy to overlook in the modding process, mafia at the end of the day is a game about uninformed majority vs informed minority. Having a graveyard of nightkilled people who can secretly conspire together removes the factor of ''uninformed'' and ''minority'' which places town at much superior odds against the scumteam where even killing capable players (or dangerous roles) no longer ceases to make them a threat. Rather, it ascends them to a higher plane of existence where all communications are hidden and they can secretly decide on a winner. And this is all without considering if any scum was lynched. The ensuring scenario is pretty much like what Dormio has said already, town has to be a bunch of potatoes to lose this.
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O4rfish

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #735 on: June 19, 2014, 10:28:19 AM »
Let me see if I understand this.

In normal mafia, scum wins by killing good players, and town wins by lynching scum.
In MotK mafia, scum wins by lurking and town wins by exploiting overpowered roles.
In my setup, scum wins by seeming to be town, and town wins by figuring out who the scum are.

And the game you would rather play is ...
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #736 on: June 19, 2014, 10:46:21 AM »
I'm pretty sure that insulting the playerbase isn't the right way to go about getting people to join your game.

O4rfish

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #737 on: June 19, 2014, 10:54:25 AM »
Dormio, what IS the right way to go about getting people to join my game?
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #738 on: June 19, 2014, 11:05:58 AM »
There's no real formula but you just have to sell your game.
Games with weird mechanics, particularly experimental ones, are especially hard to sell unless you already have a reputation for being able to create fun games with weird mechanics.

Also, in my case, I wouldn't join any game for the next week since I'm in the middle of finals. I'm pretty sure all the Americans aren't though so try your best to appeal to them or something.

Bardiche

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #739 on: June 19, 2014, 11:24:44 AM »
I wouldn't have to NK Bard night one if he wouldn't peg me as scum immediately and also be a power role at the same time.

You didn't NK me, man. I roleblocked you. :colbert:

EDIT: On the subject of appealing to people, try assurances/explanations of why the setup is balanced and their worries are stupid. I'm personally not playing because persuading people is a pain and I'd rather focus on raiding the shit out of the Second Coil/Extreme Primals.

O4rfish

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #740 on: June 19, 2014, 11:25:21 AM »
When I signed up to run a game I was originally going to run the same kind of role madness we had been playing. At that time people were complaining about too much rolespec, so I thought about doing something mountainous. Some people stated that mountainous was boring, and the game needed to have power roles to spice things up. I thought, what if we put the spice in the rules instead? This can result in things like Popcorn Mafia which was popular enough to have one or two sequels.
Now people are wary of the graveyard influencing the game, and I understand why that would be unfun in a traditional-style mafia game. This game however is untraditional, with different win conditions, and I think if players entered the game expecting a different experience, they won't be disappointed.
The strategies and tactics necessary to win are different in this game. Your preconceptions may not be valid. This game sounds fun to me and I would play it if I weren't running it.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #741 on: June 19, 2014, 11:30:07 AM »
Like, for example, my first game (Angel Beats Mafia) was relatively tame with one curveball thrown in. (Self-Reviving Serial Killer Lovers lol, though if you get past the name they were a relatively weak pair of roles too.)
I had a fairly good reputation and it helped that mafia was generally more active back then so people played my game and enjoyed it.
That made people come back for my second game (Rewrite), which was similar to the first in that most of the roles were relatively tame (VTs ahoy!), and it was largely successful too.
Of course, both games had their flaws but people enjoyed them overall which led to my third game. (Medaka Box Mafia)
I took a bit more of an experimental approach in my third game but people still joined it since my first and second games had been good enough.
So, basically, it might be prudent to get more experience under your belt before you go wild with modifying the mechanics of the game too much or something.

On an unrelated note, you people should be totally hyped for Ys Mafia when it comes around.
Totally balanced (Kittan Seal of Approval?), and totally unique. (Read: Not role madness, not bastard, completely awesome)
A once in a lifetime game of mafia, if you will.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Your preconceptions may not be valid. This game sounds fun to me and I would play it if I weren't running it.
That could be totally correct. However I, personally, tend to shy away from games that I feel depart from the base game too much.
Other people might love it though. Who knows? Pester people into joining your game, pull favours, all that jazz.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 11:55:50 AM by Dormio the Trinity »

BigBangMeteor

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #742 on: June 19, 2014, 11:46:19 AM »
For me it`s not that the game is townsided (though I think it is, albeit not as much as Dormio and Conq are making it out to be). It`s that I think that the graveyard deciding lynches is a fundamentally bad idea. The people deciding the lynch have to rely on other people to ask questions, get reactions, and produce scumreads. If the players that are alive don`t do this correctly (and 9 times out of 10 they won`t, because everyone needs different things to confirm scumreads), the graveyard players are basically operating off gutreads, and it`s not fair for the people to be lynched off gutreads they can`t even reply to, whether they`re town or whether they`re scum. Additionally, you completely remove one tool in the scumhunting kit (who scum vote for and when they do it) because the players in the thread can`t vote.

I think that there could be ways to get the graveyard into the game. I don`t think this is it.

Also for most of the games that I`ve seen here, scum haven`t won by lurking. They`ve won because town have been derps and sucked. qft

ActionDan

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #743 on: June 19, 2014, 12:02:01 PM »
You didn't NK me, man. I roleblocked you. :colbert:

EDIT: On the subject of appealing to people, try assurances/explanations of why the setup is balanced and their worries are stupid. I'm personally not playing because persuading people is a pain and I'd rather focus on raiding the shit out of the Second Coil/Extreme Primals.

Since when did you play ffxiv?  Are you on gilgamesh?

Don't lynch me.

Pesco

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #744 on: June 19, 2014, 12:02:15 PM »
Make a few players turn scum-aligned once they die. Pretty simple solution to rebalancing things for scum.

Other than that, sometimes people just don't want new or nice things.

Bardiche

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #745 on: June 19, 2014, 12:17:22 PM »
Since when did you play ffxiv?  Are you on gilgamesh?

Ultros. Gotta tentacles. I've been playing since late November last year, and four weeks or so ago finally killed Nael Deus Darnus. Now if only my damn Black Mage staff would drop...!

SB

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #746 on: June 19, 2014, 12:24:24 PM »
I don't mind dead people affecting the game, I just don't think they should be the deciding factor.

On another note, my game is changing to Build Your Own Setup Mafia.

O4rfish

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #747 on: June 19, 2014, 02:10:28 PM »
For me it`s not that the game is townsided (though I think it is, albeit not as much as Dormio and Conq are making it out to be). It`s that I think that the graveyard deciding lynches is a fundamentally bad idea. The people deciding the lynch have to rely on other people to ask questions, get reactions, and produce scumreads. If the players that are alive don`t do this correctly (and 9 times out of 10 they won`t, because everyone needs different things to confirm scumreads), the graveyard players are basically operating off gutreads, and it`s not fair for the people to be lynched off gutreads they can`t even reply to, whether they`re town or whether they`re scum. Additionally, you completely remove one tool in the scumhunting kit (who scum vote for and when they do it) because the players in the thread can`t vote.

The graveyard doesn't lynch players. Have you watched Survivor on TV? It's like that.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

BigBangMeteor

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #748 on: June 19, 2014, 02:20:13 PM »
okay I reread the rules and they are extremely confusing. You provided like 3 lines about the mechanics of an experimental game; that doesn`t work. Maybe people would be more enthusiastic if they actually understood it... What does it even mean for the dead players to choose one player to win along with them ???

O4rfish

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Re: RPG Mafia Thread IV (Current Game: Trustee Mafia)
« Reply #749 on: June 19, 2014, 02:46:44 PM »
The trustees choose one player to win, but that player's whole faction wins. There are only two faction, no third party.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.