Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 11F

[Pesco]

Ditched my save from pre 1.141 and started a new game on Hard Mode. Since I never actually got very far the first time round, what's the most cheese lineup I can go for? By that I mean I will use

Spoiler:

Suika and Byakuren if they're still imba

without question. If I can get an endgame list of 12, I'll gear my investments towards them.

[Sahgren]

Unless they smacked Komachi's stats straight through the ground, she should still be one of the, if not the, best tank in the game. Best health + in built health regen + all stat debuff + decent damage reduction if you use the correct elemental resistances means she never dies and always has something to do in her off time. Aya, Kaguya, and

Spoiler:

Reisen

are all pretty strong too in my opinion. Especially since Aya

Spoiler:

enables Byakuren to jump straight to 100% speed and negates Suika's speed self-debuff

.

Edit:

Spoiler:

Eirin

isn't stupid broken anymore, but she's good to have on reserve for the odd boss fight that Komachi actually has a chance of dying in.

[ViciousYukkuri]

Hmm...Try Komachi, Keine,

Spoiler:

Byakuren, Suika, Satori, Hina, Sanae, Aya, Reimu Kasen, Yuyuko, Eiki and Alice. Maybe Nazrin because cheese, mouse...

Keine has a pretty broke way to restore MP that's faster and more effective than concentrating.

Spoiler:

Sanae

has the TP thing, and fruit.

Spoiler:

Hina

can also do broken amounts of damage with little set up.

Spoiler:

Eiki

has the defense ignore move that's great, on top of the all status ailments and all debuffs move.

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

because she and

Spoiler:

Aya

can work together to make sure bosses don't get turns.

E:Honorable mention of

Spoiler:

Yukari

and Kasen. Kasen's moves can do everything and Spiriting Away puts the user's ATB at 9999.

[MewMewHeart]

Ok...

Spoiler:

Suika

is OP

Spoiler:

she did 33,838 damage on Sakuya with a Missing Power + Throwing Mount Togi combo.

Damn, I see why people like her.

[Murakumo]

Cleared game once.

Spoiler:

Final Boss fight was fun. First off all no one from my team was able to damage him. Parsee - 0, Hina - too slow, Monk Yuugi was able to do 30-60K per turn but that was not enough, Sakuya with def.penetration 7K per hit, Patche is a glass. So I bring Flandre into play, I never used her before so I invested some money into her attack and made her Gambler prof. With than she was able to do 100-120K per hit.

When I did damage to Murakumo, he evolved and raped me. So I changed tactic and put Healer Yuuka (I don't have Komachi or Mokou) instead Momiji into tank spot. I beated him to 50% and he evolves again, but Yuuka prevailed and switched in-out Flandre. Apparenty THIS WAS NOT EVEN HIS FINAL FORM, and I died again.

Then I did this.

Video Link

[Raijinrage]

Then I did this.Video Link

Nice use of Momiji's Instant attack for effective switching

[jaxter0987]

Ditched my save from pre 1.141 and started a new game on Hard Mode. Since I never actually got very far the first time round, what's the most cheese lineup I can go for? By that I mean I will use

Spoiler:

Suika and Byakuren if they're still imba

without question. If I can get an endgame list of 12, I'll gear my investments towards them.

Pretty much everything Vicious said. The only one I personally wouldn't be so sure about is Keine but given the rest of the party, she would be a welcome addition. You'd be lacking some Cold damagers but there aren't that many bosses that are weak to Cold and not weak to everything else you have as well.

Edit: Just finished beating all the 12F bosses.

Spoiler:

They were all surprisingly disappointing, given the difficulty I had with them the first time around. Tenshi was especially disappointing...

I'm going to have to do a Hardmode run it seems...

[Sahgren]

Freakin' A,

Spoiler:

Yukari

was tough. Apparently not having

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

to cheese your way through the entire fight means she actually get a chance to beat my head in.

[StativXyw]

Then I did this. Video Link

is that boss really that vulnerable to dark? wow...

Edit: Just finished beating all the 12F bosses.

Spoiler:

They were all surprisingly disappointing, given the difficulty I had with them the first time around. Tenshi was especially disappointing...

I'm going to have to do a Hardmode run it seems...

It's crazy on Hard mode, it feels like the bosses have much higher stats but then again it probably is just the fact that you cant boost your stats as easy as you used to before patch 1.14
i had a hard time beating the 15F Foe

Spoiler:

and even Yukari ! maybe I should just use Suika....

rushed from 12F to 17F, really have to get some sleep now....

[Xarizzar]

Then I did this. Video Link

Nice thinking there, bro... You just proved how broken Flandre can be...

[MewMewHeart]

Nice thinking there, bro... You just proved how broken Flandre can be...

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fishin]

Nice use of Momiji's Instant attack for effective switching

Now that I think about it, Momiji could potentially be a good support character simply because of subclass abilities + Instant Attack.  Having an heal available instantly from any character's turn would be pretty cool and she has fairly good durability.

Hmm...Try Komachi, Keine,

Spoiler:

Byakuren, Suika, Satori, Hina, Sanae, Aya, Reimu Kasen, Yuyuko, Eiki and Alice. Maybe Nazrin because cheese, mouse...

Keine has a pretty broke way to restore MP that's faster and more effective than concentrating.

Spoiler:

Sanae

has the TP thing, and fruit.

Spoiler:

Hina

can also do broken amounts of damage with little set up.

Spoiler:

Eiki

has the defense ignore move that's great, on top of the all status ailments and all debuffs move.

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

because she and

Spoiler:

Aya

can work together to make sure bosses don't get turns.

E:Honorable mention of

Spoiler:

Yukari

and Kasen. Kasen's moves can do everything and Spiriting Away puts the user's ATB at 9999.

Why

Spoiler:

Alice

, out of curiosity?  She's useful if you want a combination of Speed debuffs/Heavy on one character but I never found her to be particularly effective for support or offense beyond that.

[Pesco]

Spoiler:

Alice

is a pretty solid and versatile attacker. She's not so squishy that she can't be slot 2 or 3 either.

[Gesh86]

Spoiler:

Alice

is a pretty solid and versatile attacker. She's not so squishy that she can't be slot 2 or 3 either.

Spoiler:

Alice

is also the hands-down nr. 1 best evader of the game. Better than Aya if given a book that teaches Evasion Boost. Look at her skills, stats and do the math.

[Pesco]

That's news to me. Just how much in raw numbers do the boost skills give? I've only checked Resists boost and maxed out gives 15 to all ailment resists.

[Gesh86]

That's news to me. Just how much in raw numbers do the boost skills give? I've only checked Resists boost and maxed out gives 15 to all ailment resists.

Just tested it: For Evasion Boost, it's 6 points for every rank the character has. It seems to be a fixed number, not dependant on the character's base value.
One big difference between Aya and

Spoiler:

Alice

is that Aya already has Evasion Boost when you get her, pointing at her saying "This character is meant for evading". But yeah, she's only the 2nd-best at it. What I've noticed is that ATK- and SPD-centered equipment tends to have extra evasion on it, but that's much rarer on something a mage would wear. If

Spoiler:

Alice

is built to be the best evader, she'll have some very odd items on her, so that's probably a more obscure quality of her.

[Axel Ryman]

From what I've seen, some boosts are just flat boosts while others are dependent on your level. At Level 1 with only 1 Level in HP Boost,

Spoiler:

Flandre

went from 136 to 138, so she only gained 2 HP. At level 63,

Spoiler:

Flandre

went from 1252 to 1279. gaining 27.

So far, MP is 1 per level, TP 2 per level, EVA is 6 per level, Elemental Resistances is 6-7-6-7-6(At least on

Spoiler:

Flan

), and Ailment Resistance is 3 Per Level.


Haven't checked Rinnosuke's High boosts so give me a moment

Edit: Rinnosuke comparison with no boosts vs Level 1 in each

None
http://oi44.tinypic.com/263c6u1.jpg

Level 1
http://oi44.tinypic.com/290whhw.jpg

For High Boosts, MP is 2 per level, TP is 4, EVA is 20, Elemental Resistance is 15, and Ailment is 8.

[MysTeariousYukari]

What I've noticed is that ATK- and SPD-centered equipment tends to have extra evasion on it, but that's much rarer on something a mage would wear.

Rinnosuke, Evasion High Boost, those items, and a subclass to fit. Blink Tank and possible Nuke, depending on what class you pick for him.

[Serela]

Whenever applicable, the Boost skills increase your base growth amount. I don't know by how much, though. All the ones that don't are flat boosts.

Rinnosuke's high boosts are pretty silly when you keep in mind you can teach him any of the High Boosts he doesn't start with, too.

[woghddla]

Does anyone want to run a hard mode banning draft run with me?

Rules are simple:

• Each person bans 2 characters.
• Alternating, each person then drafts 2 characters.
• Ban/Pick order swaps. Each person bans 4 characters.
• Alternating, each person drafts 4 characters.
• Ban/Pick order swaps. Each person bans 4 characters.
• Alternating, each person drafts 6 characters.
• The remaining two characters are banned by default.

The participants must report to each other the details of every boss fight in meticulous detail.

[Pesco]

A draft between how many people? Presumably the game will be done on a NG+ save. Someone should prepare one of those and maybe preset all the BP requirements.

When you guys do the draft, you're welcome to drop by the irc channels where we have a bot that can keep track of your picks and bans for you.

[jaxter0987]

A draft between how many people? Presumably the game will be done on a NG+ save. Someone should prepare one of those and maybe preset all the BP requirements.

When you guys do the draft, you're welcome to drop by the irc channels where we have a bot that can keep track of your picks and bans for you.

Based on whats written, it's a draft between any two people.
If we're doing a NG+ hardmode run, there would be no need to fulfill any BP requirements. You'd have all the characters at the start anyway.

It wouldn't be that hard to just write down our picks and bans.

I'd probably want to do this eventually after I finish the synergy run, and my other normal run (I'm seriously playing this game too much). I wonder how much of a dick we'd be to each other with our picks and bans...

[Sahgren]

Based on whats written, it's a draft between any two people.
If we're doing a NG+ hardmode run, there would be no need to fulfill any BP requirements. You'd have all the characters at the start anyway.

It wouldn't be that hard to just write down our picks and bans.

I'd probably want to do this eventually after I finish the synergy run, and my other normal run (I'm seriously playing this game too much). I wonder how much of a dick we'd be to each other with our picks and bans...

"So my 6 picks are

Spoiler:

Suika, Byakuren, Yuyuko, Alice, Hina,

and Aya. Your turn!"

It's an interesting concept at least, but I also wanna finish up my synergy run first. If you're still looking for someone in a week or so, I'd be up for it.

Edit: The only complaint I have is that some characters are strong enough that the person picking first is more than likely going to just snatch up as many as possible. That puts the person picking second into the annoying position of either banning them out or having to be content with the fact that the other person is likely going to have an easier time than them simply because they're picking first. It might be worth considering talking out restrictions on how many of the stupidly-OP characters you can pick at a time.

Edit 2: Though reading over how you set it up again, that could just be solved by how ban/picking order swaps after each picking phase. Gonna have to wait and see how it works out in practice.

[Kirin no Sora]

I actually tried that but it seems like High-Level Treatment doesn't trigger when using Prayer of Recovery, it only works when you use Prayer of Good Health (second spell you learn from Healer subclass which only cures ailments)

Um...

High-Level Treatment: Healing spells have a (SLv * 10)% chance to also cure any status ailments.

I would think that High-Level Treatment would work with any HP healing spell, including Prayer of Recovery, because it would be rather odd if the HP healing spell from the same class as the skill in question can't work together...

I'm still trying to figure out why peope call the Diva subclass broken. I'm having trouble finding a way to abuse it. It's not like I'd end up using the strategy anyway even if/ when I figure it out unless 21F and 22F demand it for some reason.

I do believe that it's meant to be used the same way you would use

Spoiler:

Yuyuko's ATB reducing spells

, as a means to delay the opponent to the point where they never get a turn("timelocking" sounds like a proper term for the technique, feel free to disagree) before you hax them to pieces. This setup will require Keine with her "Organized Formation" skill, a character with a good switcher skill(Rinnosuke, Rin), a character with a high Speed stat(Rin, Aya, Chen, etc.), or a character that can already help in speeding up allies(Aya,

Spoiler:

Sakuya, Yukari

) to act as the Diva, and a few different characters with the skill "Instant Attack" to constantly switch with one another for the purposes of regenerating MP quickly before anyone can move(Chen, Momiji, Mystia) to take advantage of this. Subclassing for some of the other characters(Strategist for Keine, as an example) can and will help as well.

...and I've taken way too long in posting this...  :blush:

[Serela]

Edit: The only complaint I have is that some characters are strong enough that the person picking first is more than likely going to just snatch up as many as possible. That puts the person picking second into the annoying position of either banning them out or having to be content with the fact that the other person is likely going to have an easier time than them simply because they're picking first. It might be worth considering talking out restrictions on how many of the stupidly-OP characters you can pick at a time.

Well, 4 characters get banned before anyone gets to draft anyone; super OP Suika and Byakuren can get booted off the bat.

And then, you alternate when you do draft; the first draft picks of 2 each aren't 2 at a time, it's one-one-one-one. So they can't just go first and pick the 2 best unbanned characters at once.

Unless you did more character banning earlier in, maybe, I don't see it getting more balanced then it already is. But having -some- pretty strong characters each is good too, so there -is- a purpose to not having a lot of banning early.

[Pesco]

When you have that many bans in the draft rules, I guess it places more emphasis on denying certain characters. Compared to drafts in LoT1, you would just pick the cores for your team and then the dregs would just fill up with the characters people considered weak. Subclasses add a nice new dimension of strategy to whatever team you have at the end and I doubt you'd pick yourself a team without the proper means to survive.

[StativXyw]

18F Boss cant get any more easier than this - VideoLink (obviously some spoilers in that video)
looked at the Affinity chart and thought

Spoiler:

Flan's L?vatein

is all I need

Um...

I would think that High-Level Treatment would work with any HP healing spell, including Prayer of Recovery, because it would be rather odd if the HP healing spell from the same class as the skill in question can't work together...

I know it sounds silly but I tried it 20 times, didn't trigger once...


Edit:

I do believe that it's meant to be used the same way you would use

Spoiler:

Yuyuko's ATB reducing spells

, as a means to delay the opponent to the point where they never get a turn("timelocking" sounds like a proper term for the technique, feel free to disagree) before you hax them to pieces. This setup will require Keine with her "Organized Formation" skill, a character with a good switcher skill(Rinnosuke, Rin), a character with a high Speed stat(Rin, Aya, Chen, etc.), or a character that can already help in speeding up allies(Aya,

Spoiler:

Sakuya, Yukari

) to act as the Diva, and a few different characters with the skill "Instant Attack" to constantly switch with one another for the purposes of regenerating MP quickly before anyone can move(Chen, Momiji, Mystia) to take advantage of this. Subclassing for some of the other characters(Strategist for Keine, as an example) can and will help as well.

and that is exactly what I found out yesterday while playing around with the Final Boss. You really just need to give Aya enough Speed and some MP Recovery Items. As long as she outspeeds the enemy you win

kinda ironic that the subclass that is supposed to be a "support outside of battle" breaks the game...

[Wymar]

Oh man and here I thought Aya got the same treatment as LoT1

Spoiler:

Kaggy

.

[Pesco]

Aya can buff up the front line's speed to 42% just by soloing trash mobs before anyone else moves. Too stronk.

[woghddla]

So usually the banning draft ends up with two people being as sadistic as they can to each other to try to get the other guy to quit (or get stuck and have to quit) before you do. Tried this in LoT1 with a friend and managed to gimp him with no status removal... but he managed to beat me in the end =,=

So how it works is this: we have Player A and Player B
Player A has first ban/pick

Player A bans

Spoiler:

Suika

and

Spoiler:

Byakuren

Player B bans

Spoiler:

Yukari

and

Spoiler:

Komachi

Player A picks

Spoiler:

Satori

Player B picks

Spoiler:

Yuuka

Player A picks

Spoiler:

Shikieiki

Player B picks

Spoiler:

Rumia

Player B now has first ban/pick

(4 bans)
(4 picks)

Player A now has first ban/pick

(4 bans)
(6 picks)