Touhou Rage Thread XVI: Last-Second Clipdeaths Edition

[Sakurei]

Last time I checked you can get 8 spare lives for the game, not 4. That's as much as you get for MoF and EoSD too. Most runs will probably only get 7 lives, since I killed myself for bombs, but that's still almost twice as much as you're claiming here. TD has shitloads of resources. Do you even know how many bombs you can get in this game? TD resources are broken simply because you get so many bombs. Just because you're unable to use the game's system to your advantage in even the slightest bit doesn't mean the game is stingy. There are bombs everywhere.

Watch a replay, dude.

[ILikeBulletZ]

That's fair enough I guess, I don't fully understand the system or gimmick this game uses, so that may be it...

That, and also the fact that I just don't like TD that much (Worst Touhou overall IMHO), so naturally I don't play it as much as the others.

I guess I may have exaggerated a bit, but that's what happens when you die to the final boss's  final spellcard twice in a row


I still find it strange how I am struggling with what is supposedly "The easiest Normal 1cc", when I have already gotten every other 1cc Normal, including stuff such as SA and UFO, YET for some reason I fail at TD Normal... It just really feels like if I so much screw up once or twice, the whole run goes to hell, unlike the other games, for some reason.

AS for replays... I have already gotten to the final boss final spellcard twice, I don't think it will be needed. (I don't like watching replays, unless I have already completed the game, since I like figuring stuff by myself).

[Mr Jovial]

Agh, Kaguya is seriously messing with me now. In the last 7 runs, my stage 6 performance has been unusually consistent. They've all been 2 or 3 miss, they all fail Rising World, and either Brilliant Dragon Bullet or Buddhist Diamond. Kaguya's 1st nonspell gives me awful RNG that forces me to weave around the entire screen, etc, etc. It's getting so annoying since I did 4-5 practice runs of the stage yesterday. They were mostly 1 miss. I think one was 2 miss and the other was awful and I restarted it. Not to mention my last 2 runs have had pretty much the exact same stage 6. Died to Buddhist Diamond because laser + aimed thing trapped me and stars then killed me and failed Rising World with 00 on the timer by moving into a slow bullet. There's something very rage inducing about repeating mistakes like that and I feel like I can't do anything about it :<

Kaguya pls.

EDIT: Bleh, even on an "LNN" run I can't catch a break. Failed Kaguya's 3rd last spell because I entered it from a weird position then got utter trash RNG on Rising World such that the yellow star phase trapped me. This is getting obnoxious.

[Kappa]

Playing TD:
blew my last life on Soga's sh!tty angular spellcard.  Killed it in death trance, got an extra life out of it.
"OOOOOH I'M STILL GOIN"
Got telefragged by the rings of spirits about 5 seconds later

[MrL1193]

So tonight, I almost pulled off a NMNB SA Normal Stage 4 as Marisa B on my first try after not seeing it for several months. Almost. I stumbled and bumbled my way through the stage by relying heavily on the Water spread shot, just barely remembered Satori's first few attacks well enough to capture them, and somehow squeaked past Princess Undine, only to die to Philosopher's Stone when Satori had only a sliver of life left.

Well, I figured I'd try the stage again. Surely it wouldn't take too long to get it right, right?

4 completed runs and numerous restarts later, I've managed to capture Philosopher's Stone 3 times, but I'm 0 for 4 on Princess Undine. :fail:

[Arcengal]

What do you mean I cleared without items but only get credit for those I'd unlocked at the time?!?!?!

FUCK.

[ILikeBulletZ]

What do you mean I cleared without items but only get credit for those I'd unlocked at the time?!?!?!

FUCK.

That has got to be some sort of oversight... it makes no sense!

The good news is that if you manage to No Item something without even haven gotten to day 6 (And hence without access to Sub Items), later on you can try it again WITH the help of the Cursed Doll Sub or the Tengu Camera (More like with the help of just the CURSED DOLL... the Camera is usefull for like 10 scenes at most, the other 65 you are better off with the Cursed doll IMO), which should obviously make it even easier and faster than the first time! (Do not use Ying Yang because its apparently bugged and it doesn't works. And honestly, even if it DID work as intended, I personally think the other two are just plain better...)

[Kappa]

I can't get through DDC Extra.
Even though it's like the easiest thing ever.
And even though I have gotten "Pristine Beat" down to a sliver of health.
Nope, just keep on having sh!t bomb habits and wasting lives and bombs in packs of 3.
And keep failing Raiko's spellcards even though you've proven your ability to consistently capture them.
And just keep screwing up on the simplest parts of your route, like the red-glob-spam POCs or the Tsukumos' first nonspell/spellcard.
And retry and retry and retry until you don't even feel it anymore. hnnnnngguh.

Meh, at least it's not taking as long as PCB Extra, good lord that sucked

[Failure McFailFace]

After a two month long  hiatus from Touhou, I decided to play again on Windows 10 last night.

Only the games up to 10 worked.
Decided to play PCB Normal, and die twice in the first two stages when I used to be able to NM them.

I think that two month break destroyed my Touhou skills.

[Kappa]

I decided to play again on Windows 10 last night.

Only the games up to 10 worked.
Decided to play PCB Normal, and die twice in the first two stages when I used to be able to NM them.

I blame Windows 10.

[Failure McFailFace]

I blame Windows 10.

Mostly it was because I couldn't install the newest DirectX update because I have no admin rights

[AngelG No. 55]

Three runs in the span of a week, three near-1ccs. MoF Normal, IN Normal FinalA due to lack of resources and SA Easy.

I'm choking at small fries while I'm seeing every STG player around me, in this forum and out of it, derp out on much harder things, implying they can do it easily.

I want success. I want to achieve some sort of meaningful goal in this sort of genre so I can feel like a real player.

And I want it NOW.

EX are off-limits, Lunatic is an alien difficulty mode and restricted Lunatic is batshit. Thus I'm going for main game/good ending, but I'm failing at even that. I could find some solace if I had someone to compare myself favorably to.

But where the hell are they?!? Where are all the STG novices?!?!? I've been told they exist, but in no forum or IRC chat, or pretty much anywhere, have I seen any single player with whom I can have some way of comparing my achievements favorably (IN, TD, DDC Easy 1ccs, plus a mountain of failures at the other games).

Background information: this is a player who since 2012 only plays this game very sparsely due to problems with objectives, self-worth and self-esteem. Playthroughs were usually weeks, often months apart until now (hopefully). I have resorted to streaming on Twitch to players and friends who can help me out as a way to get my motivation from outside, seeing as I can't make my own.

[Shimatora]

Three runs over the span of a week is probably why you're not progressing. This is not a genre you can get instantly good at without hours and hours of practice. Most of the players you see "derping out on much harder things, implying they can do it easily." most likely put more than 3 runs into a week. Your main issue is that you're expecting results from putting very little effort into the genre, by the sounds of it. If you want results, don't play the game every now and then, play the game religiously. You should be doing at least 3 full runs per day to expect any decent results, some might even say. Try to stop caring what others are doing and set your own, reachable goals.

[Inadequate]

Majority of Touhou fans are very bad at the games, let's say at a similar level with you. They just don't voice their thoughts very much, since they hardly play and aren't all that interested in the games.


I spent months of on-off playing to get my first Normal 1cc, back in the day. If you want to get something faster, you'll have to play more and utilize tools such as stage practice.

[Arcengal]

I can't get through DDC Extra.
Even though it's like the easiest thing ever.

lol wut no DDC Extra is one of the more difficult Extras in the series. Stop giving yourself a hard time.

[Esper]

Three runs in the span of a week, three near-1ccs. MoF Normal, IN Normal FinalA due to lack of resources and SA Easy.

I'm choking at small fries while I'm seeing every STG player around me, in this forum and out of it, derp out on much harder things, implying they can do it easily.

I want success. I want to achieve some sort of meaningful goal in this sort of genre so I can feel like a real player.

And I want it NOW.

EX are off-limits, Lunatic is an alien difficulty mode and restricted Lunatic is batshit. Thus I'm going for main game/good ending, but I'm failing at even that. I could find some solace if I had someone to compare myself favorably to.

But where the hell are they?!? Where are all the STG novices?!?!? I've been told they exist, but in no forum or IRC chat, or pretty much anywhere, have I seen any single player with whom I can have some way of comparing my achievements favorably (IN, TD, DDC Easy 1ccs, plus a mountain of failures at the other games).

Background information: this is a player who since 2012 only plays this game very sparsely due to problems with objectives, self-worth and self-esteem. Playthroughs were usually weeks, often months apart until now (hopefully). I have resorted to streaming on Twitch to players and friends who can help me out as a way to get my motivation from outside, seeing as I can't make my own.

As Shimatora said, shmups are a genre in which you cannot simply "play a few runs a week". Shmups are by their very nature "memoshit". There is no such thing as raw skill except in games where RNG bullets are common. In a lot of shmups, the same planned movements yield the same planned results (or something close). I now play Touhou EXTREMELY RARELY because I couldn't handle losing every run I had to something stupid, like you said.

Also, if you want to 1cc MoF Normal, you can literally bomb every card in the game and still 1cc. Not to insult you, of course.

I notice that you complain about lacking STG novices to compare yourself to. Everyone was a novice at some point. Nobody goes at the same pace because nobody practices at the same rate, and even then people start at different times. I've played Touhou games since 2009 and I struggle with Lunatic because I play as often as if not less often than you claim to (mostly out of a mixture of lack of interest and real-life obligations, but that's beside the point). If you truly care for a skill, nurture it. Treat your losses as things that need to be improved upon rather than the game laughing in your face.

Touhou as a series is mostly learning how to do the same thing over and over again with as much precision as possible. Shmups are like playing music; you can improvise to see if it works better, but generally if you don't know what you're doing it's best to stick to a route. When I learned (by learned I mean "denied for a long time then hamhandedly accepted") that this is how most every shmup works, I was dismayed. However, you will eventually get better at reading patterns. Look at gaps not bullets, look around your hitbox rather than at your hitbox, et cetera. Shmup skill only gets you so far, but memorization of a game (Which does take a decent smidge of skill and enjoyment of a game) is the best solution to the problem of "this is too much".

One does not simply go to Makai and beat the shit out of Byakuren with six lives remaining afterward on the first try. You need to take time to learn the games. If you get upset, walk away and try again when you cool down later. Touhou is a series of (mostly) shmups, or shooting video games. Video games are by their nature intended to be fun. If you don't have fun playing something and you really only take cracks at it because you want fame or recognition or self-respect (from what I interpret. Please pardon me if I'm wrong) because woo you can evade dots on a screen, you're not going to find it here. The things one will do best at are the things one feels motivated to try again and again out of how much they enjoy that particular activity.

tl;dr version: Touhou is just a game. To play it for recognition or self-respect is a fool's pastime. One becomes best at a trade they enjoy. You don't learn to play piano just because you want to play Flight of the Bumblebee or learn how to sing opera just to sing Nessun Dorma or [vague comparison that most people will never get: redacted], do you? It's frustrating to be newer or be less experienced, but  time and dedication will help 99.9% of all skills in which that time/dedication is allocated to. I apologize if anything I said sounds insulting.

[Cream Soda]

lol wut no DDC Extra is one of the more difficult Extras in the series. Stop giving yourself a hard time.

Unless you bomb Raiko's nonspells with MarisaB for instant max lives. ;3

[pokemon123]

I don't think I'll be able to ever 1cc pcb. Stages 4 and up feel like a normal mode. The patterns are insane for an easy mode. I'm honestly having an easier time trying to 1cc SA. At least it isn't bs difficulty like UFO though(that's probably because of playstyle reasons so take that comment half seriously)

[Kappa]

lol wut no DDC Extra is one of the more difficult Extras in the series. Stop giving yourself a hard time.

But-but-but it doesn't seem that hard.  The only reason I can't clear it is my shitty resource management.  Blaming the game is shamefurr dispray.
Maybe my frame of reference sucks, but compared to the other Extras I've played, namely IN and PCB, IN was a little tougher and PCB was WAY frigging harder.
Unlike IN Extra's Spellcards, I can clear most of the DDC EX Cards like the back of my hand in Spell Practice. Now I just have to translate that to actually playing the damn game, because it needs to be translated for whatever reason.
To be honest, I started to hit the phase where you forget how to play just as my multiple projects hijacked priority, so in a week or two when I revisit the stage, I'll probably just ace it or something.
Or suffer unnecessarily for a week straight.

Unless you bomb Raiko's nonspells with MarisaB for instant max lives. ;3

There's one flaw in that plan - ReimuA != MarisaB. 

I'm honestly having an easier time trying to 1cc SA.

If that is genuinely the case, then go for that, because good god, clearing SA is worth at least 1.25 clears of any other game in my book.  I didn't expect to see the words "SA" and "easier" so close together in my lifetime.

Big long post

Unfortunately, in this day and age, it seems you don't get props for just clearing things.  You earn the right to be called a scrub when you start knocking out Lunatic runs.
By this logic, we are on the same boat.  Yeah, it sucks that I'll likely never be anywhere close to the level of skill you see in people like Jaimers and Naut, but at least I know what I've accomplished.
And given how hard it was to accomplish it, I'm pretty damn happy with it.
These games just take time to get good at.  Absorb the skills via osmosis, gain the skills through gameplay, coordinate your runs with preplanning and metagaming - do whatever it takes and whatever works best for you.
And most importantly, have fun, and good luck*.
#I'mOneToTalk #SubScrub

* Luck is not a substitute for skill.  Use as a supplement only!

[ILikeBulletZ]

lol wut no DDC Extra is one of the more difficult Extras in the series. Stop giving yourself a hard time.

Really?

I thouhgt that was SA extra. At least for me it is BY FAR the hardest!

EDIT: I decided this post just doesn't do it justice.


I have cleared ALL the extras except these two:

SA Extra and TD extra.

SA Extra because Koishi has tricky spellcards and also Oh my god that first spellcard THAT FRIKING FIRST SPELLCARD!!!!


The goddamned 1st Spellcard alone makes me waste something like 4 bombs, 1 life and then 1 more bomb! Its TERRIBLE! I am working on finding its trick but these lasers get me EVERYTIME!!!


Honestly, if I could capture that spellcard or at least understand how it works, I would probably have a better shot at getting at least into whatever her Survival card is. (The 2nd to last one).


The stage itself isn't THAT hard though. Sanae is a bit troublesome but I just bomb past her and some annoying fairies. I get all life pieces and MAX power by the time I get to Koishi herself so I essentially can perfect the stage everytime, survival wise.

OH yeah I forgot about TD extra...

Well, before attempting said Extra I need to unlock it first, which means I have to 1cc TD Normal... no thanks, that game is WAY more frustrating than any other.

[Mr Jovial]

The goddamned 1st Spellcard alone makes me waste something like 4 bombs, 1 life and then 1 more bomb! Its TERRIBLE! I am working on finding its trick but these lasers get me EVERYTIME!!!

Honestly, if I could capture that spellcard or at least understand how it works, I would probably have a better shot at getting at least into whatever her Survival card is. (The 2nd to last one).

The lasers are static. For the very first wave you want to be in the middle of the screen (horizontally) and just below Koishi. For subsequent waves, do the 1st set of lasers at the bottom of the screen and the 2nd set just below Koishi. Both of those are in the centre.
Demonstration here

[Cream Soda]

SA Extra because Koishi has tricky spellcards and also Oh my god that first spellcard THAT FRIKING FIRST SPELLCARD!!!!

There's a very reliable method, take a look.

I don't think I'll be able to ever 1cc pcb. Stages 4 and up feel like a normal mode. The patterns are insane for an easy mode. I'm honestly having an easier time trying to 1cc SA. At least it isn't bs difficulty like UFO though(that's probably because of playstyle reasons so take that comment half seriously)

PCB is one of the easier games and you can get 15 lives. If you don't know what to do, you can grab a NMNB Easy run and try to copy it.

edit: What have I learned today? Read all the posts before replying. :v

[ILikeBulletZ]

The lasers are static. For the very first wave you want to be in the middle of the screen (horizontally) and just below Koishi. For subsequent waves, do the 1st set of lasers at the bottom of the screen and the 2nd set just below Koishi. Both of those are in the centre.
Demonstration here

There's a very reliable method, take a look.PCB is one of the easier games and you can get 15 lives. If you don't know what to do, you can grab a NMNB Easy run and try to copy it.

edit: What have I learned today? Read all the posts before replying. :v

Thanks for sharing xD

I already suspected the lasers were static, but I still couldn't tell how the pattern was and I just got too nervous and spammed the bomb button anyway XD: Same thing happened with the lasers in Sanae?s 1st except that isn't as far from the Stage Start so I could freely experiment with it because I could just ESC-R  and not lose much progress anyway.

That begin said, this spellcard is still a total ***** even if I know its actually static and easy, I just simply get scared and bomb anyway. I really need to get over it, not only it is a massive waste of resources, but it also means I have to take down all the rest of the attacks with just 1 or 2 power at most....obviously not good when I am already struggling as it is...

Seriously having such a "Know the trick or DIE" type of Spellcard at the start is kind of a prick move :/ Making you waste resources AND leaving your power crippled for pretty much the entire fight,  (And because of that you will probably die even faster)... it makes it way harder than it should be -.- None of the other Extras had this kind of Spellcard at the very start IIRC. (Unless TD happens to have one...got to unlock that one someday...)

[Mero]

Seriously having such a "Know the trick or DIE" type of Spellcard at the start is kind of a prick move :/ Making you waste resources AND leaving your power crippled for pretty much the entire fight,  (And because of that you will probably die even faster)... it makes it way harder than it should be -.- None of the other Extras had this kind of Spellcard at the very start IIRC. (Unless TD happens to have one...got to unlock that one someday...)

that's SA Extra for you, it's not that bad once you learn it, but it's some difficult learning to do. Maybe you'd like to take a look at this

[Aeteas]

that's SA Extra for you, it's not that bad once you learn it, but it's some difficult learning to do. Maybe you'd like to take a look at this

I think you meant to link to this one.

The one you linked to was the April Fools joke.

[Kappa]

That begin said, this spellcard is still a total ***** even if I know its actually static and easy, I just simply get scared and bomb anyway. I really need to get over it, not only it is a massive waste of resources, but it also means I have to take down all the rest of the attacks with just 1 or 2 power at most....obviously not good when I am already struggling as it is...

Coming off of a card having used 1 or 2 bombs is a hell of a lot better than blowing through a life and 2 full sets of reserves.

[MrL1193]

Seriously having such a "Know the trick or DIE" type of Spellcard at the start is kind of a prick move :/ Making you waste resources AND leaving your power crippled for pretty much the entire fight,  (And because of that you will probably die even faster)... it makes it way harder than it should be -.- None of the other Extras had this kind of Spellcard at the very start IIRC. (Unless TD happens to have one...got to unlock that one someday...)

Ran in PCB starts off with Wizard Fox Thoughts. Granted, the "trick" is a lot easier and you're not penalized as much for bombing, but if you don't know what to expect and you start moving around too much, you'll still die horribly. (I know I did the first time I reached her.)

[Mero]

I think you meant to link to this one.

The one you linked to was the April Fools joke.

Oh haha, I forgot about the joke thread :V

[Miki Revolverhead]

lol wut no DDC Extra is one of the more difficult Extras in the series. Stop giving yourself a hard time.

Really? It was probably the easiest extra for me (after Ran). It's laughable if you go with MarisaB or SakuyaA and have a good knowledge of the timings.

OH yeah I forgot about TD extra...

Well, before attempting said Extra I need to unlock it first, which means I have to 1cc TD Normal... no thanks, that game is WAY more frustrating than any other.

TD Extra is absolute hell. Mamizou's outline danmaku are the worst, especially the dogs. Also TD's life system is pretty harsh, so I wish you luck when you get there. Try to activate your trance mode wisely, you'll need it.

[Miki Revolverhead]

Really? It was probably the easiest extra for me (after Ran). It's laughable if you go with MarisaB or SakuyaA and have a good knowledge of the timings.

TD Extra is absolute hell. Mamizou's outline danmaku are the worst, especially the dogs. Also TD's life system is pretty harsh, so I wish you luck when you get there. Try to activate your trance mode wisely, and use the shit out of your bombs, you'll need them.