Touhou Rage Thread XVI: Last-Second Clipdeaths Edition

[Quukii]

If all you are aiming for is a 1cc, you could consider switching to Reimu (stronger than Sanae and the best shot type in the game imo).

[Kwak]

If all you are aiming for is a 1cc, you could consider switching to Reimu (stronger than Sanae and the best shot type in the game imo).

Thanks for the tip! I actually tried Reimu a bit and had a harder time, though I agree that she'd probably be easier once I got used to her. Since I'm planning on eventually doing everything with everyone, I'll probably just press on with Sanae (Besides, it's not quite the same playing a game about divine spirit collecting as anyone else, you know?  )

A good thing to do is practice deathbombing or deathtrancing, since it'll save you from the frustration of dying with bombs in stock. I had to practice a lot to even stand a chance of finishing with enough lives when I first played. Even now I fail to deathbomb properly on the random occasion.
Sanae's unfocused shot can deal more damage to the boss than her focused shot at close range, which also increases spirit gain. If you need to, it's always useful to bomb/trance on top of the boss to maximise your spirit gain.

Wow, I wouldn't have guessed that about her shottype. That should help alleviate a lot of point blank deaths.
And yeah, I can only ever consistently deathbomb in IN or with PCB Reimu, so specifically honing that reflex would be good.

Since "Do not restart" is an advice that even masters give, I'd say yes. Seriously, perfecting first two stages won't teach you a thing about later ones, and saving one life early on won't save the run if you're too likely to lose it at the end anyway. Restarting should only be done when working on high-level stuff, like no-miss or scoring runs, when you HAVE TO meet certain expectations, early levels included.

Will do, thanks. Maybe that's why I find EoSD so much easier than even MoF, because I practiced the hell out of each stage...

There are actually two ways of getting more spirits. Shotgunning only works for bosses and fairies with a lot of HP. For popcorn (fairies that die wth one/few shots), you get more spirits if you kill them as soon as they appear. So, for example, if you took your time with one wave, and another comes out, switch to the new one, you'll get more spirts than if you finished off old one and then switched to the new one, which would become too old to give spirits by that time.
But I don't think absolutely optimal trance usage is important for overall survival, so you should look somewhere else.

THAT'S why shotgunning wasn't always working
yay something to think about during stages

Not bombing enough. Seriously, each life lost with unused bombs is two enemy patterns you could have pretty much skipped. Having ANY doubts about an attack? Bomb. No, don't take a risk. Bomb. You have Stage and Spell Practice to try risky strategies.

*sigh* you're right. I always tell myself every run I'm gonna bomb more...then I get cocky and want to capture everything and oh geez where did all my lives go.

Speaking of which, make use of them. You've done quite well in earlier stages, so it looks like you're just not used to later ones (I blame that restart syndrome). Put some time to grind stages and bosses until you're comfortable with them. If something still gives you trouble, remember to just bomb there. Don't worry too much, you seem to be quite able, I think you can do it eventually.

Also, have a go at stage/spell practice, which pays off very well.

Okay, okay, I'll practice...
It sounds like my problem is I haven't been taking TD as seriously as the others. I've heard so much about how stupidly easy it is, so I keep expecting to not have any trouble and then getting frustrated when it turns out to be like any other Touhou game. Thank you all for setting me straight and reducing my rage! _{(but i swear if yoshika spawns a kunai on me ONE MORE TIME)}

[Sakurei]

A good thing to do is practice deathbombing or deathtrancing, since it'll save you from the frustration of dying with bombs in stock. I had to practice a lot to even stand a chance of finishing with enough lives when I first played. Even now I fail to deathbomb properly on the random occasion.

And yeah, I can only ever consistently deathbomb in IN or with PCB Reimu, so specifically honing that reflex would be good.

Deathbombs outside of IN and PCB Reimu happen because player sees he's about to get hit and is pressing the button actually before he's hit. It's not some reflex thing. You see the bullets you can't dodge, so you press the bomb button. In most cases you happen to be slow, so it turns into a deathbomb. It wasn't by reaction. It was a bomb done through reading ability and decision making. There is no way to "master" deathbombing. Deathbombing is a few frames. Nobody has that reaction time.

Learn to bomb pre-emptively so you don't even have to worry about that shit. Deathbombing is one of the most useless features in Touhou. Don't try to get hit before you bomb, you understand? bomb before the bullets reaches you. The only game where practicing deathbombing is important is if you want to score in MoF. Which is something you're way off considering youyou have trouble clearing normal modes.

[I have no name]

Personally, I like deathbombing as a mechanic because it gives you a bit of extra time to react to something about to hit you.  If I hear the death sound and bomb, then I know it was a bomb well used because if I didn't, it'd have been a death.  However, relying on it outside of IN Border Team is a terrible idea because you can't react that fast, like Sakurei said.

Anyways: TD is on the easier side with regards to its patterns but it generates its difficulty from giving you less resources and punishes you more for a death (by emptying your trance).  Don't worry about shotgunning bosses, it's not worth it outside of scoring&a few exceptions, such as Yuyuko's 3rd spellcard and during bombs.  You can get enough spirits by speedkilling fairies in the stage portions to trance everything you'd want to trance anyway.  On that note, learning the stages is very helpful, especially in this game if only to know how to refill trance effectively and use it to get as many lives and bombs as possible.

I saw a question about Yoshika's final spellcard a bit back too: just shoot it.  Don't worry about the spirits, every shot can capture it without circling her on normal.  Even on lunatic I would suggest not circling, even though it guarantees a timeout.  It's just safer to time it out every time than to try to rush it to capture and risk dying.

[Emerald Mint]

Deathbombs outside of IN and PCB Reimu happen because player sees he's about to get hit and is pressing the button actually before he's hit. It's not some reflex thing. You see the bullets you can't dodge, so you press the bomb button. In most cases you happen to be slow, so it turns into a deathbomb. It wasn't by reaction. It was a bomb done through reading ability and decision making. There is no way to "master" deathbombing. Deathbombing is a few frames. Nobody has that reaction time.

Learn to bomb pre-emptively so you don't even have to worry about that shit. Deathbombing is one of the most useless features in Touhou. Don't try to get hit before you bomb, you understand? bomb before the bullets reaches you. The only game where practicing deathbombing is important is if you want to score in MoF. Which is something you're way off considering youyou have trouble clearing normal modes.

Well sorry for explicitly saying deathbomb, then. Just bombing pre-emptively as you say.
Besides, TD is basically shotgun and trance, shotgun and trance through most of the patterns. It's a broken enough game as it is.

[Oh]

Death-bomb is the most important thing you need to learn as a new player. Don't listen to these people, death-bomb will save you lives. You don't know how many times I practiced death-bomb!

Without the bomb in death-bomb you will only get death :V :V

[Space Flower]

(Homu homu.)

I don't know about you guys, but if the biggest worry for me on a run is death-bombing, it's time to ramp the difficulty up.

[Emerald Mint]

Oh and Saku, the way I worded it sounded misleading enough. I would've mentioned it the way you did if I was more careful of what I posted. I wanted to help too you know.
Also, I'm better at playing the game than giving advice, as it's hard to translate my knowledge into text. I'll stick with what I do best. Hope you understand.

[Sakurei]

I do understand. I was just offset by the term deathbombing since a deathbomb describes the window between getting hit and then bombing - something you definitely shouldn't rely on. It really seemed odd for me that someone as experienced as you would recommend learning to abuse that to a new player, since normally I only see people who have no idea what they're talking about mentioning deathbombs as advice. Sometimes phrasing things is rather difficult w

[Emerald Mint]

It's kind of odd for me, yes. I'm a socially awkward person and tend to either mix words and stuff up or have mood swings, so sorry if I may sometimes sound a bit hostile.

[CyberAngel]

_{(but i swear if yoshika spawns a kunai on me ONE MORE TIME)}

They don't spawn at the very bottom of the screen, so just stick there during nonspells. There's nothing to be gained by staying higher that would warrant a risk of getting killed by something that unpredictable.

[Kwak]

About the deathbombing thing. I interpreted Emerald's post as "suicide over and over again until you get really good at pressing X really fast". Which didn't sound very fun so I'm glad that's not what you meant. I'm pretty good at knowing when I'm about to die, except in this game where I'm crashing into fairies and other stupid deaths.

[Mino ☆]

It's all subjective, really. Deathbombs are something that you may naturally perform while in danger. The only thing I would practice concerning deathbombs is learning the timing. I think it is best to play around in stage practice and spell practice and get familiar with the game's patterns. Over time you will improve, but you may not see the improvements instantly. Also, don't fall into the trap of expecting to win everytime...

If you play only to win you will become like me, and constantly have trouble having fun unless you are doing well.

Appreciate the grind.

[Yookie]

...except in this game where I'm crashing into fairies and other stupid deaths.

TD is notorious for suicide fairies running into you. At least for me. Especially stages four and five have many enemies spawning around or under you and converging somewhere which can easily catch you off-guard.
In that sense it is quite different from the others and if the stages are killing you more than usual then that might be it. (The fact that the spirits are usually up top doesn't help.)

[Emerald Mint]

If you play only to win you will become like me, and constantly have trouble having fun unless you are doing well.

Sounds like me too. It's this behaviour I've gotten addicted to and it causes me to restart a bunch. Sometimes I even find myself swearing in front of the screen after I ruin a decent run.

[Cheez8]

I'm pretty good at knowing when I'm about to die, except in this game where I'm crashing into fairies and other stupid deaths.

TD does that a lot. A whole lot. In fact it's probably the most threatening thing in the entire game. Honestly, I find I'm more successful in TD just by not bothering to collect spirits at all unless I'm absolutely certain nothing is going to appear and ram into me before I can notice. Even if it means I only collect one extra life, it seems to work out better that way.

I don't know if it's like that for everyone, but I'd say to maybe give it a shot.

[XephyrEnigma]

TD does that a lot. A whole lot. In fact it's probably the most threatening thing in the entire game. Honestly, I find I'm more successful in TD just by not bothering to collect spirits at all unless I'm absolutely certain nothing is going to appear and ram into me before I can notice. Even if it means I only collect one extra life, it seems to work out better that way.

I don't know if it's like that for everyone, but I'd say to maybe give it a shot.

This is usually a good way to go about it. I've had easier times when I'm not trying to play the game as aggressively as the mechanics would like you to. Granted, I have trouble clearing this game on anything but Easy, so I really wouldnt have the best opinion of how you're 'expected' to play.

[Shimatora]

I've played TD for countless hours and I still ram fairies and spirits (mostly the latter spawning on top of me.) It's a bit off an odd weighing up of options, avoid being aggressive with spirits and forgo extra life pieces or even just life pieces and end up with less lives to spend overall, or be aggressive and get those extra lives. I think it's definitely good to know when the gaps are to run up and grab spirits, though - the games spawns can be pretty annoying otherwise.

Spoiler:

I'm looking at you, Stage 4.

Speaking of Stage 4, the amount of times it's gotten to the Seiga/Yoshika fight and I've sat just below Seiga to shotgun milk for spirit and score and she just comes straight down after the dialogue. So many runs destroyed because I forgot about this. ;_;

[Kwak]

Well, shoot, guys. I dun 1cc'd it.
It was pretty much a matter of not bombing enough. Once I stopped taking suicidal risks and got to know the later stages everything got a lot easier. Bombed just about ever pattern Miko had and came out with 2 lives to spare.
...Feels like I wasted everybody's time by making a big deal out of doing really badly, but this game seems like it's the most dscouraging, if not the hardest. Like death-trancing, which isn't all that helpful compared to the pain of just sitting around shotgunning until you bleed out. Like, isn't it enough to just let a death be a death? Why do we need a giant technicolor "YOU FUCKED UP ^.^" sequence? It's insulting enough that the fairies' flight paths are more dangerous than the bosses' patterns.
So yeah, the challenge for me in this game was mainly psychological, so this win isn't very exciting. Maybe that's a sign that Normal just isn't hard enough any more

[Yookie]

Well, shoot, guys. I dun 1cc'd it.

Congrats. If you want to move on to hard mode then I'll just say, that the jump in difficulty is bigger in 11, 12 and 13 than in the earlier games. 14 is okay.

[Mr Jovial]

So today I game over'd in stage practice.
In SA.  :colonveeplusalpha:
On stage 4.  :flamingv:

[CyberAngel]

Like death-trancing, which isn't all that helpful compared to the pain of just sitting around shotgunning until you bleed out.

What makes deathtrancing worse for me is... Well, I've lost count of how many times I deathtranced when out of bombs, and got enough bomb spirits for a full bomb before dying, forgetting I can't use it and it's essentially wasted now. Lost resources are a painful thing.

[Yookie]

Funny thing about "deathtrancing" is, that there is an actual equivalent to deathbombing with the trance mode. But since you're most likely not resting a finger on the trancebutton like on the bombbutton (just assuming here) it's even less practical than deathbombing (if you want to call the actual deathbombing together with the pi-chun practical).
Nvm, it's actually in the wiki. Just didn't see it. :V

But yeah. TD is probably the game to make you feel the worst out of the series when it kills you at Miko's last spell only to have you sit there 10 seconds, killing Miko and dying right at the score-accumulation.

[Makedounia]

I tried to perfect Miko on hard. I captured everything until the last spellcard and then I SOMEHOW bump into Miko between the spellcards, Worst part is, I also captured the last spellcard.

[Validon98]

Goddamnit, I made it to Hourai Jewel on Lunatic and I screwed it up so horribly. I'm this close to being able to Lunatic 1cc IN but I keep making stupid mistakes everywhere. Goddamnit.

[Blue]

DDC SakuyaB Normal run. Perfectly fine until Stage 6. So many unnecessary panic-bombs and stupid deaths. I died once on each of Seija's attacks. Seriously. And Sukuna's third non. I hate that non.

[Cheez8]

So yeah, the challenge for me in this game was mainly psychological, so this win isn't very exciting. Maybe that's a sign that Normal just isn't hard enough any more

Maybe, but it also could just be that TD Normal is a complete and utter joke once you realize that ramming into fairies is what's actually killing you most of the time. I tried playing it for the first time in about half a year a week or two ago, and by sitting still most of the time and not caring about collecting anything whatsoever, I got a 1cc on my first try. TD sucks.

Anyway: Still haven't come close to beating SA Extra. I started trying recently again, and my first attempt had me clumsily die to Sanae twice. Naturally, the rest of the run went all the way to Philosophy of a Hated Person for the first time in ages. I can't help but wonder whether that one would have actually worked out if it weren't for that.

[CyberAngel]

Is it just me, or are Sakuya's and Remi's spellcards easier on Hard than Normal? I'm quite sure I'm making more progress on clearing Hard than on optimizing Normal, especially on stages 5 and 6. This imbalance is annoying. Reminds me of IN. Must be full moon's influence on bosses.

[Star King]

Is it just me, or are Sakuya's and Remi's spellcards easier on Hard than Normal? I'm quite sure I'm making more progress on clearing Hard than on optimizing Normal, especially on stages 5 and 6. This imbalance is annoying. Reminds me of IN. Must be full moon's influence on bosses.

Nah.

[Oh]

Is it just me, or are Sakuya's and Remi's spellcards easier on Hard than Normal? I'm quite sure I'm making more progress on clearing Hard than on optimizing Normal, especially on stages 5 and 6. This imbalance is annoying. Reminds me of IN. Must be full moon's influence on bosses.

just play more (100hr+)