League of Legends Thread 10 - Threads...threads are truly outrageous.

[triangles]

technically you're always ready for ranked since the point is to find out your real ranking and strive to improve it

everyone has an effective current rank and the only way to discover it is to... play ranked

So why do I hear on other sites to wait (until ) to start ranked?  Or is it a holdover from the previous system to guarantee you'd be good enough be at least bronze...?

I do need a slightly bigger champ pool though, I only just hit the minimum 16 owned and I figure I want at least 3 for each role I prefer (support and ADC at least, jungle is a work in progress, I expect to never ever get told to top/mid) in case they get banned out or chosen already.

[Think Komachi with a Rifle]

So why do I hear on other sites to wait (until ) to start ranked?  Or is it a holdover from the previous system to guarantee you'd be good enough be at least bronze...?

I do need a slightly bigger champ pool though, I only just hit the minimum 16 owned and I figure I want at least 3 for each role I prefer (support and ADC at least, jungle is a work in progress, I expect to never ever get told to top/mid) in case they get banned out or chosen already.

You need some OP top laners and jungle for if you're first pick, even if you then trade them to someone else.

It's people who don't want to admit they suck who wait it out.
If you are okay playing with others who suck and throw games through lack of knowledge it's fine.

[Iryan]

So why do I hear on other sites to wait (until ) to start ranked?  Or is it a holdover from the previous system to guarantee you'd be good enough be at least bronze...?

Afaik, there is two reasonings behind this.
1. if you play ranked, but don't play that well or at least tend to make mistakes that cost your team the game, you are likely to get yelled at a lot, which makes for a very unpleasant experience, which noone wants.
2. There is a common notion that, since people who troll or afk a lot lose many games, they condense out in the lower regions of bronze, i.e. bronze IV and V. Not only that, but other people who jump into ranked without much knowledge of or skill at the game will take some time to lose enough to drop to their true rating, meaning if you are in the lower regions of bronze, you will randomly get people who are a lot worse than average in your games. This a) again makes for a highly unsatisfactory ranked experience and b) makes it more difficult to climb back up to bronze III and higher, even if you improve. Thus, you want to do well enough in your placement matches to avoid getting into this lower region (commonly referred to as "elo hell"). By waiting until your skill has improved some more and -then- playing ranked, you would thus be unlikely to drop into that region, whereas if you jump into ranked early, the supposedly more random nature of these lower regions will make it difficult to climb out.

People disagree if "elo hell" actually exists. I think the described effects exist, but are not as pronounced as most people make them out to be. Still, reason 1 caused at least me to wait with ranked until I was sufficiently confident in my abilities to try. That, and the fact that I beat myself up a lot when I think I am the main reason for why my team is losing. ^^;

[Think Komachi with a Rifle]

.
2. There is a common notion that, since people who troll or afk a lot lose many games, they condense out in the lower regions of bronze, i.e. bronze IV and V. Not only that, but other people who jump into ranked without much knowledge of or skill at the game will take some time to lose enough to drop to their true rating, meaning if you are in the lower regions of bronze, you will randomly get people who are a lot worse than average in your games. This a) again makes for a highly unsatisfactory ranked experience and b) makes it more difficult to climb back up to bronze III and higher, even if you improve. Thus, you want to do well enough in your placement matches to avoid getting into this lower region (commonly referred to as "elo hell"). By waiting until your skill has improved some more and -then- playing ranked, you would thus be unlikely to drop into that region, whereas if you jump into ranked early, the supposedly more random nature of these lower regions will make it difficult to climb out.

You are matched by Elo not by what league you happen to be in. Elo hell should be around Silver III, Bronze should be below it, just filled with bad players.

"Elo hell" refers to the region of Elo rating that not very good people get put in during or shortly after placement matches (whilst they're falling down into bronze V). The problem being those actually terrible guys who are falling to the bottom but won a placement match or two by getting carried hard ending up in your game.
 So the games aren't balanced like they should be as the newly ranked (and not very good) guys Elo has a huge margin of error still.

[triangles]

Well that's the thing, I don't know exactly how good or bad I am.  I'm assuming pretty bad since I just hit 30, but I often play support so it'd be hard for me to completely condemn the team into losing short of intentionally running into the enemy turrets I think...?  I mean I play normals so half the time there's someone raging at me or someone else, justified or not ("OMG REPORT LULU FOR FEEDING EVEN THOUGH SHE HAS HALF THE DEATHS I DO"  )

Though I'm wondering if there's another sort of unofficial placement matches once you hit 30 because all of a sudden my games have bunches of bronze and silver ranked people and everyone has 2-4 or more times as many wins as me, even when I do solo queue (I know it's bumped when you duo)  I mean hell, my last game the enemy support was throwing down pink wards like holy crap I pretty much never saw anything but greens.

What top laners/etc should I pick up?  I think all I have in that department is like Kennen, Kayle and Teemo :V  I guess I'll have Quinn too, since that's getting bought soon and she's sort of counts maybe, but I have like no IPs now because runes are aspensive   I've got plain ol' AD, AP and support pages, I need to finish jungle and maybe an armor heavy support page or some sort of more specialized ADC one?

[Garlyle]

Though I'm wondering if there's another sort of unofficial placement matches once you hit 30 because all of a sudden my games have bunches of bronze and silver ranked people and everyone has 2-4 or more times as many wins as me, even when I do solo queue (I know it's bumped when you duo)  I mean hell, my last game the enemy support was throwing down pink wards like holy crap I pretty much never saw anything but greens.

Well, one of the first things the matchmaker matches for is level.  Now that you're level 30, you're basically thrown into the mess with other level 30s - ranked or not.

Your MMR - your "ELO" if you're familiar with the term - still exists in normal games and it's been carried up to this point.  And Normal ELO is kept separate from Ranked ELO (and separate from other game modes' ELO as well) so... yeah.

[triangles]

So like let's say I was in the 20th percentile of sub-30s, now that I'm 30 I'm initially tossed in with the other 20th percentile of players in SR and ARAM, which includes most of the bronze range and some low silver until I settle much like how I started and filtered most smurfs out?  I know MMR doesn't always equate to tier placement so it could be deceiving at times.
Maybe I'm overthinking this but damn was there a big jump in my last few games in terms of other players' experience  :derp:

EITHER WAY my future ~ranked roster~ of what I own is looking like (with varying degrees of suckitude play-wise)
Support: Lulu, Zyra, pick up Janna (tried her in ARAM this week, fun playstyle)
ADC: Tristana, Caitlyn, pick up Quinn
Mid: Karma, Zyra,  Lux
Top: Kennen, Teemo, Kayle, future Quinn
Jungle: Sejuani and uh.... yeah this is pretty empty, learn Nunu?

Suggestions welcome, but I have like 800 IP right now so any recommendations 450 or 1350 IP please for my e-wallet's sake.

The recurring theme here is I really really do not like melee champs (though I admittedly don't really try beyond a cursory bot game, if that) and kinda AP heavy.  My hope is that here in yoloscrub tier there's enough guys living out power fantasies with Darius and Garen and Jarvan etc I can get away with it for a balanced team overall.    MJP's almost 30, but he too has a sparse champ pool and doesn't do any jungling (not a problem, if we always duo I'll take it worst case) so we may be waiting some time anyway for get ready for most anything.

Also I guess I should try 3v3 now too since that always looked like fun :V

[Think Komachi with a Rifle]

As regards to which top laners.
Besides Teemo you want the big melee bruisers.

Garen, Darius, Shen, Xin Zhao, Olaf
some assassins work as well, but you need to have sustain.

The requirement is that you must be able to hold the lane 1 v 2 as them.  Both to survive ganks and in case of a lane switch with the bot duo.

You do need to learn to read the enemy team and itemise according to which champs they are and the strengths and weaknesses of your team mates.
e.g. know when to buy armor, MR or health for defense and know when you need to buy armor or magic penetration gear by looking at enemy builds.



NB: It's Elo not ELO, it's the name of the guy that invented the algorithm.

[Ryuu]

so many posts omg

So why do I hear on other sites to wait (until ) to start ranked?  Or is it a holdover from the previous system to guarantee you'd be good enough be at least bronze...?

there are some legit reasons like it's easier to climb to a higher elo if you get good before ranked because of the boosting. but 90% of the time when people say that, it's because they blame people in their games for not being "ready" for ranked because it's toooottaallly THEIR FAULT that they lost. there is no real "ready" for ranked. if you have a low rating, then you have a low rating and that's how things are.

You are matched by Elo not by what league you happen to be in. Elo hell should be around Silver III, Bronze should be below it, just filled with bad players.

dude bronze is the top 25% of players in the region

"Elo hell" refers to the region of Elo rating that not very good people get put in during or shortly after placement matches (whilst they're falling down into bronze V). The problem being those actually terrible guys who are falling to the bottom but won a placement match or two by getting carried hard ending up in your game.
 So the games aren't balanced like they should be as the newly ranked (and not very good) guys Elo has a huge margin of error still.

elo hell is actually when you hit your ranking plateau and have difficulty easily carrying games. it's called elo hell because OMG THESE BADS KEEP LOSING ME GAMES at every ranking, not just lower ones.

Well, one of the first things the matchmaker matches for is level.  Now that you're level 30, you're basically thrown into the mess with other level 30s - ranked or not.

Your MMR - your "ELO" if you're familiar with the term - still exists in normal games and it's been carried up to this point.  And Normal ELO is kept separate from Ranked ELO (and separate from other game modes' ELO as well) so... yeah.

the matchmaker accounts for games played and will attempt to match you with people who have an equivalent amount of games played.

[Mr. Sacchi]

Explicity to tank? Well, you should be taking someone else, but the gold standard works here, Locket+Bulwark. Lizard Elder/Golem is either way depending on damage needs or tank needs. From there, Gauntlet.

I know tank pony ain't the best option by far, but a) I'm amazed at how much damage I can dish out with tank pony b) people tend to focus me down simply because I'm pony and they think I'm gonna carry my team to victory and c) nobody ever takes a tanky jungler in my solo Q matches.

And pony is the only decent jungler I have, free week aside, my junglers are simply Pony and... Warwick :derp:

Wanting to re-buy my dear nocturne, but I'm still a good 4k IP from him, and I think I'm gonna suck as noc after so long of not touching him.

[Iryan]

dude bronze is the top 25% of players in the region

Wasn't it so that approximately the bottom 50% of ranked accounts were bronze, silver means you were in the upper ~50 %, gold in the upper ~10 %, plat in the upper 2. X%, diamond in the upper 0.X %? Looking at this statistic for that.

Or are you taking all the accounts that haven't played ranked at all into account as well?

[Raikaria]

No, Ryuu's pretty much just outright wrong to be honest. If Bronze is the Top 25%, that would make Gold something like the 2%. I am not the Top 2%.

IDK what the 2nd graph is, however.

[Iryan]

No, Ryuu's pretty much just outright wrong to be honest. If Bronze is the Top 25%, that would make Gold something like the 2%. I am not the Top 2%.

IDK what the 2nd graph is, however.

Both display the same thing. First graph is accumulative, second is absolute number of people.

[Ryuu]

Wasn't it so that approximately the bottom 50% of ranked accounts were bronze, silver means you were in the upper ~50 %, gold in the upper ~10 %, plat in the upper 2. X%, diamond in the upper 0.X %? Looking at this statistic for that.

Or are you taking all the accounts that haven't played ranked at all into account as well?

parroting stats given by riot barely a few months ago

i think they mean all players and not just ranked players. if it was just ranked, then the information makes no sense because no tier below bronze

another factoid is that the 50% mark was around 900 elo iirc

[Raitaki]

i think they mean all players and not just ranked players. if it was just ranked, then the information makes no sense because no tier below bronze

No, it's only ranked. Bronze V is the 100 percentile.

[Garlyle]

I definitely remember Riot stating that the vast majority of players don't even play Ranked on at least one occasion so there's that.

[triangles]

<math>
Percentiles actually work the opposite way, they say what percentage you surpass, so if Bronze V is the lowest it's 0th which is kind of awkward phrasing IMO.  The graph's last column really should have been like, "x% of people are ranked higher than you" or did 100-x. 
</math>

So the median is in low silver, which seems pretty disproportionate if you ask me, but I guess it makes all the higher ups specialer snowflakes :V

[Ryuu]

No, it's only ranked. Bronze V is the 100 percentile.

i wasn't talking about the graph?

[theshirn]

They let me have Shen again.  A poor decision.

7/1/9. BV

[Mr. Sacchi]

Guys, please tell me when is it a good time to backdoor.

Because seriously, every game I play kennen I'm thrown into a situation where backdooring is the only way to victory, and Kennen is an amazing backdoorer, but in these same situations... I'm also the team's MVP and if I'm not there we lose the nexus :derp:

[Raitaki]

Slap your adc a few times and tell him to do it.
C:<

[Raikaria]

Farewell Giants, hello Alternate [AKA: That team with Forrenlord and that former SK jungler]

[Iryan]

So...
I was accruing a pretty boss w/l ratio for ARAMs, when suddenly,

[attach=1]


This is the closest I will ever get to being a LoL pro player. :V

[Raikaria]

Eh, dosen't beat me bumping into EDWard.

[triangles]

Another question for ye olde experts: face-checking.

We all know you shouldn't do it, if you do you're a terrible noob l2play uninstall etc, but when I play support a good chunk of my deaths in the "you screwed up" department is from me trying to ward things.  I go to ward the bush, as soon as it goes in I see them and BAM! turns out there's 2-3 guys in there and I get slaughtered.  Bot bushes, anywhere in the river, tri-bush, bush right before inner turrets, etc etc this has happened just about everywhere.  How do I fix this?  The only thing I can think of is rush Twin Shadows (my favorite item in the entire game may I add) and let my little ghosts smoke them out first.

[Suikama]

Wards are ranged so try to place the ward at max range and then run back asap. You can also place them over walls, so many spots can be warded without any danger.

[Aba Matindesu!]

Warding tribush/river patches still presents a problem, though, since they don't really have walls over them.

[hyorinryu]

Also, you shouldn't run too far away from your team to ward. You risk running over the enemies' wards and getting caught out.

EDIT: Apparently someone ragequit in the LCS.

[Cadmas]

I have a bad habit of being blown apart when warding as Sona. I stopped playing Sona.

[Think Komachi with a Rifle]

my strategy to avoid this; play as taric. (also I now realise I have ~80% win rate as taric)

and yeah, you should actually push the lane a little bit to ward river bushes safely.
and if you can't  ward the river the friendly tribush should be warded.
and you should be begging your team for help already.