League of Legends Thread 10 - Threads...threads are truly outrageous.

[hyorinryu]

I vowed not to go back into ranked until the following:

1 - I find I have a minimum of four champs in each lane pick that I can use efficiently.
2 - I am playing on my father's internet connection, since it runs smoothly enough that I don't feel as if lag ruins my plays and therefore I can blame my poor playing purely on my own stupidity at that particular point in time.
3 - I get someone to go ranked with me that might be able to pull me out of bloody well Bronze III.

Those first two are easy clears, since I have several champs I can use/have used with great efficiency for each lane. (Kennen in top/mid, Hecarim in jungle/top, Lux in support/mid, Ez in ADC, and several others) I just can't seem to bring myself to ask someone to play ranked with me and help me carry any troll teams we get to victory.

I'm also scared of my own possible incompetence. :<

About that whole 2 or 3 for each role thing, I'm pretty sure you just need supports and you'll be fine. If you don't want to mid or top, you're not going to have a hard time getting someone else to do it. Jungle and ad carry maybe, but solo lanes are REALLY popular.

[Think Komachi with a Rifle]

About that whole 2 or 3 for each role thing, I'm pretty sure you just need supports and you'll be fine. If you don't want to mid or top, you're not going to have a hard time getting someone else to do it. Jungle and ad carry maybe, but solo lanes are REALLY popular.

You want some top laners /jungles for when you're first pick. (just avoid the always banned ones and you shouldn't need many)

I'll add that they need to be different types of champs especially common hard counters.
Ryze (counters fizz) and Teemo (counters darius/garen) are good to have just in case.
 
Bot lane duo are a pair, you have to match your partner, so you need a tank (vayne/tristna), a poke (ez) and Nunu (caitlyn).  Worth it if only to deny your opposing carry their best support f they don't pick together.

[Taboo]

re: dyrus

he's easily the most consistent player on TSM right now

[Iryan]

About that whole 2 or 3 for each role thing, I'm pretty sure you just need supports and you'll be fine.

Note that the reasons I played support in 2 out of 4 games and not 4 out of 4 was that both of those games someone called support. Not that I mind, but it happens more often than I expected...  :V
There was actually a situation where my team wanted me to go ADC and the enemy team had already picked caitlyn. I would have been kinda screwed in that moment, but luckily someone on the enemy team dodged. That is the main reason why I need to either get a new adc or get better with trist/sivir.

For solo lane, you want a roster such that there does not exist a champ who counters all of the ones you have. So if you have 4 top champs but they are all countered by teemo, that is a bad idea. If you have 4 mids but they are all countered by Talon, that's a bad idea, too. Luckily if you pick sufficiently different champs, this situation should rarely occur. For instance, for mid it should suffice if you have a long-ranged mage with poke and utility, a mobile assassin and a tankier/bruisery guy, methinks. For top you'd want a tanky/bruiser guy or two plus a harassing bastard.
Additional variety can never hurt though. Also, there's several champs that can be played effectively in multiple positions (Cho can mid, top and jungle, and he is cheap, for instance, kayle can literaly do every role, though she is better in some than others).

Also champs that are picked+banned in more than 50% of games don't count as a full champ for me.

Also I still like to pair up lux and cait at botlane, and imo Lulu can go with basically everyone due to her versatility and due to her usefulness in the later game, even if she is not necessarily optimal.

[Raikaria]

Well, it looks like Riot dropped the changes from Hecarim's Ult, thankfully.

Still, that's two pretty large nerfs he's getting at once [W and Lizard Elder]. And the Nashor nerf, aka, Kayle stealth nerf because aside from Teemo only she builds it, is also there.

Oh yeah, and R.I.P Rumble. Yeah the total ult damage is the same, but how often does someone stay in Rumble's ult for the full 5 seconds? Realistically the ultimate will only hit for ~40% of it's old damage that it would actually hit for at absolute most. [Assumeing ~2 seconds exposure, which is very generous to Rumble alone, since he has no hard c.c to keep the targets in there]. Which is a gargantuan nerf. It's equivalent to making Akali's Shadow Dance only have a cap of 1 charge.

[Aba Matindesu!]

And the Nashor nerf, aka, Kayle stealth nerf because aside from Teemo only she builds it, is also there.

ap xin

[hyorinryu]

Oh yeah, and R.I.P Rumble.

;_;

I was hoping it wouldn't go live.

[Patorikku]

About that whole 2 or 3 for each role thing, I'm pretty sure you just need supports and you'll be fine. If you don't want to mid or top, you're not going to have a hard time getting someone else to do it. Jungle and ad carry maybe, but solo lanes are REALLY popular.

Well, actually, I have the whole champ choice thing sorted out, especially in the bot lane. Besides having a handful of ADCs I can use well, (Ezreal, Caitlyn, Vayne, Varus, Ashe) I've got at least five or six supports I can use efficiently enough, especially since I started to use melee supports well.

Bot lane duo are a pair, you have to match your partner, so you need a tank (vayne/tristna), a poke (ez) and Nunu (caitlyn).  Worth it if only to deny your opposing carry their best support f they don't pick together.

What I have as far as these support types go would be Thresh and Taric as tanks, Lux, Lulu and Sona as pokes, and Nunu as... Nunu. Since I took Ryuu's advice on melee champs, I have been playing Taric and Thresh in the support lane like crazy, with mostly positive results. I'm still looking to increase how well I sync with my lane partner, though.

For solo lane, you want a roster such that there does not exist a champ who counters all of the ones you have. So if you have 4 top champs but they are all countered by teemo, that is a bad idea. If you have 4 mids but they are all countered by Talon, that's a bad idea, too. Luckily if you pick sufficiently different champs, this situation should rarely occur. For instance, for mid it should suffice if you have a long-ranged mage with poke and utility, a mobile assassin and a tankier/bruisery guy, methinks. For top you'd want a tanky/bruiser guy or two plus a harassing bastard.
Additional variety can never hurt though. Also, there's several champs that can be played effectively in multiple positions (Cho can mid, top and jungle, and he is cheap, for instance, kayle can literaly do every role, though she is better in some than others).

Yeah, I try to keep one hell of a lot of variety and keep to learning champs that work well in several different lanes. Kennen, Hecarim, Malzahar, Teemo... I can play most of them in multiple lanes effectively. But overall, my mid and top lineup goes as such:

Mid - Kennen, Lux, Katarina, Malzahar, Talon, Elise
Top - Kennen, Malzahar, Hecarim, Teemo, Vi, Elise

I have more, but these ones cover the variety mentioned pretty well. Not sure about a tanky bruiser down mid, though.

Really, the only reason I listed that first point in the "why I don't go into ranked" is because when I stopped playing ranked, I felt one of my problems was lacking viable junglers and supports. Fixed that, so now it's just the other two things I'm looking into.

Hecarim & Elder Lizard nerfs

;-;

[Iryan]

I'm looking forward to trying out new karma and changed udyr.

Oh yeah, and R.I.P Rumble. Yeah the total ult damage is the same, but how often does someone stay in Rumble's ult for the full 5 seconds? Realistically the ultimate will only hit for ~40% of it's old damage that it would actually hit for at absolute most. [Assumeing ~2 seconds exposure, which is very generous to Rumble alone, since he has no hard c.c to keep the targets in there]. Which is a gargantuan nerf. It's equivalent to making Akali's Shadow Dance only have a cap of 1 charge.

Well, assuming the patchnotes saying that the damage starts immediately instead of with a 0.5 second delay, let's compare the total damage

The enemy moves out within a timeframe of x and takes new [old] damage

0 - 0.5 s: 240+0.3 [300+0.5], -(60+0.2)
0.5 - 1 s: 240+0.3 [480+0.7], -(240+0.4)
1 - 1.5 s: 480+0.6 [480+0.7], -(0+0.1)
1.5 - 2 s: 480+0.6 [660+0.9], -(180+0.3)
2 - 2.5 s: 720+0.9 [660+0.9], +(60+0.0)

It is evident that the damage difference is not that bad every half second and quite bad every other half second, which is... difficult to judge in impact, gameplay-wise, at least for me. It can be a huge difference but doesn't have to be, depending on situation.

[theshirn]

The Equalizer always did damage in half-second ticks, so you're way off.  The new Equalizer does exactly the same amount of damage the old one did if the enemy stands in the effect for all five seconds; it just no longer has heavy upfront burst.

It'll keep it exceptionally deadly if you have a way to keep people locked down (Amumu/Rumble ult combo is absolutely sickening) but make it a lot less powerful in smaller engages.  It's a nerf, it's supposed to be a nerf, plain and simple.

[Raikaria]

The Equalizer always did damage in half-second ticks, so you're way off.  The new Equalizer does exactly the same amount of damage the old one did if the enemy stands in the effect for all five seconds; it just no longer has heavy upfront burst.

It'll keep it exceptionally deadly if you have a way to keep people locked down (Amumu/Rumble ult combo is absolutely sickening) but make it a lot less powerful in smaller engages.  It's a nerf, it's supposed to be a nerf, plain and simple.

Amumu + Rumble Ult is only 2/5 seconds. Therefor you're only getting 40% of the old impact damage. The fact someone else has to use a massive C/D ultimate just for you to get 40% of the old impact damage back is absurd.

It's supposed to be a nerf. Yes. That's obvious.

Except it's an unreasonably massive, crippling nerf that basically removes Rumble's R button altogether, especially in solo situations. Honestly now it might be better to not even rank up R until teamfights start, and instead get Q leveled faster, that's how useless it is without someone to hold them down. You'll be lucky to get two ticks of damage at Lv 6 [130+0.3 AP], usually you'll get half of that.

Bear in mind the only champion in the whole game you might not take R on Lv 6 is AP Sion... and Sion's getting reworked anyway.

If someone has an escape skill of any kind, the ultimate becomes completely useless. You can't zone someone with a thin line that any gap closer jumps over.

[Ryuu]

Except it's an unreasonably massive, crippling nerf that basically removes Rumble's R button altogether, especially in solo situations.

well mostly if you're bad

it is strictly a nerf, but good rumble players will know where to use their ult to maximize the time you have to stand in it

[Cadmas]

Thank the gods. Tower buffs. People were dancing under them things at level 2.

[Raikaria]

well mostly if you're bad

it is strictly a nerf, but good rumble players will know where to use their ult to maximize the time you have to stand in it

You only have to walk about 100 units to the side to escape it.

Minimum movespeed is 110 units/sec.

Any champion can escape The Equaliser in less than 2 ticks of damage, without someone holding them in there for Rumble.

It doesn't matter how good you are with that fact, or where you put the ultimate, when any champion can escape with only 1 tick of damage.

In fact, the skill ceiling has fallen, because instead of being a zoning tool AND rewarding a direct hit, now it's just a zoning tool. And a weak one at that, compare to say, Aniva's Ultimate.

Just like in a teamfight, if you use it to try and screate a no-go wall, anyone with a gap closer just jumps through it scott-free anyway, and how few teamfights have everyone standing still for 5 seconds?

It's a nerf yes. An absolutely insane one that will probobly destroy Rumble completely, like the range nerf to Diana's Ultimate made her have a lower win ratio than Karma, yet when it got reverted she was fine again. Now if a minor range change gutted Diana, imagine what this will do to Rumble.

Not to mention Rumble's Ult is why you picked Rumble. Without it he's a short-ranged caster that just runs at people, and is pretty much dead weight for 3/6 seconds while Flamespitter is on cooldown.

[Iryan]

Amumu + Rumble Ult is only 2/5 seconds. Therefor you're only getting 40% of the old impact damage. The fact someone else has to use a massive C/D ultimate just for you to get 40% of the old impact damage back is absurd

Let's say the impact did about the damage of two old ticks, that means the damage is divided on 7 ticks and in 2 seconds you get 3.5 of those. In the same time with the new one you get 2 out of 5. You did 50% damage, now you deal 40%, meaning you have lost 20% of the ability's total damage. A large nerf to the damage? Sure. An utter destruction of his ultimate and himself? Not really.

Saying that you would not get his R at lvl 6 when it still deals substantial damage you would not have otherwise is ridiculous.

If someone has an escape skill of any kind, the ultimate becomes completely useless. You can't zone someone with a thin line that any gap closer jumps over.

First tick is instantaneous, CC exists,  escape skills have cooldowns so even against champs with these you can still land high damage if you play smart, and trading your ult for their flash in lane is alright since your ult's cd is much lower. Why are you exaggerating so much?

[Ryuu]

instead of taking my time to pick apart a very obviously wrong post, i've decided to just take the liberty to make a handy visual aid where i circled all the areas where rumble's ult can still potentially be very powerful

http://i.imgur.com/vlmoj06.jpg

also rylais

[Raikaria]

instead of taking my time to pick apart a very obviously wrong post, i've decided to just take the liberty to make a handy visual aid where i circled all the areas where rumble's ult can still potentially be very powerful

http://i.imgur.com/vlmoj06.jpg

also rylais

So a highly map-positional ultimate, which can still be sidestepped to avoid 4/5ths of the damage with ease even in those positions.

Also multiplicative slow stacking + DoT means Rylais actually adds almost no slow to The Equaliser.

Let's say the impact did about the damage of two old ticks, that means the damage is divided on 7 ticks and in 2 seconds you get 3.5 of those. In the same time with the new one you get 2 out of 5. You did 50% damage, now you deal 40%, meaning you have lost 20% of the ability's total damage. A large nerf to the damage? Sure. An utter destruction of his ultimate and himself? Not really.

Saying that you would not get his R at lvl 6 when it still deals substantial damage you would not have otherwise is ridiculous.
First tick is instantaneous, CC exists,  escape skills have cooldowns so even against champs with these you can still land high damage if you play smart, and trading your ult for their flash in lane is alright since your ult's cd is much lower. Why are you exaggerating so much?

There are 10 ticks, 1 every 0.5 seconds for 5 seconds. So the impact damage is divided by 10 between each tick.

Now, assuming a realistic exposure time of, let's say 1.5 seconds, and a direct hit, the old damage would have been:

150/225/350 + 0.5 AP + 150/210/270 + 0.3 AP

So 300/435/620 + 0.8 AP per target

Now:

195/277.5/360 (+0.45 Ability Power)

That is a complete and utter gutting of the ability. It's lost 35%/37.2%/42.1% of it's base damage, and almost 50% of it's AP ratio on a realistic exposure time.

===

In other news:

Apparently Lissandra came from Narnia with that appearance

[Ryuu]

stuff

[Raikaria]

If that's the best response you have to mathematical evidence, I'll take it you agree that a 42% drop in damage is stupid.

[Ryuu]

If that's the best response you have to mathematical evidence, I'll take it you agree that a 42% drop in damage is stupid.

no that's just my overall reaction to the past five or six threads

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

An ultimate that either does a lot of damage if you stand in it or denies an area to the enemy team for 5 seconds sounds pretty good to me.
I mean if it's used right, even if it doesn't deal its full damage, you can still force the enemy team to split up which leads to people being out of position etc. which still makes it easier to win the teamfight.
But vutever, I'm going back to the dota thread.

[theshirn]

An ultimate that either does a lot of damage if you stand in it or denies an area to the enemy team for 5 seconds sounds pretty good to me.
I mean if it's used right, even if it doesn't deal its full damage, you can still force the enemy team to split up which leads to people being out of position etc. which still makes it easier to win the teamfight.
But vutever, I'm going back to the dota thread.

It used to do that too.  The loss of its impact damage is a direct nerf to the skill.  It's still quite good, it's just not as good.

[lumber_of_the_beast]

So... is there any actual point to Tribunal participation now? (Yeah, I'm still a bit behind.)

[theshirn]

guys I wrote a thing

So... is there any actual point to Tribunal participation now? (Yeah, I'm still a bit behind.)

You mean in terms of rewards?  At the moment, no.

[Ryuu]

So... is there any actual point to Tribunal participation now? (Yeah, I'm still a bit behind.)

the satisfaction of making the community a better place?

[Parallaxal]

So apparently, Karma is totally broken right now.

Her W is currently not classified as a DoT spell, possibly due to it proccing every 0.33 seconds instead of 0.5 seconds like every other DoT in the game. This means she gets a full 6 procs on Muramana. That's almost 36% of your mana in damage. People are reporting dealing 1.5k+ damage with un-Mantra'd W alone. Once Muramana's complete, Karma effectively has a fountain turret laser as her W.

It's like Muramana Syndra, only with twice the # of procs, and on a normal ability instead of an ult.

[Esifex]

...

I'm going to try that right now.

[Cadmas]

So much for, "Karma remake sucks". That was a quick turn around.

[Shizumarashi Mayuzumi]

hahahahahaha and they had to disable Leona because apparently she was crashing out entire games.

this patch

QUALITY.

[Raikaria]

Bugs be bugs, and should hopefully be fixed soon. [Who has the idea to trying Muramana on her anyway?]

Anyway, Karma's pretty strong right now, not OP, but I've seen one of Legendary. Sucks as a support and against long-range mids, however, like Lux, due to her own lack of mobilty and instant C.C.

One time I got to play Karma I ended up feeding because 4v5 + being camped hard by freefarm toplane and jungle Udyr. Still had the most CS in the whole game.

Speaking of: Udyr's new flame breath animation is awesome, and he's much better now.

Also I had a Leone in one of my games. People were not crashing.