Author Topic: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13  (Read 36333 times)

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2011, 04:17:59 PM »
Play Ultra?
Quote from Myosotis:
"Marriage is a game you can't win. Also, no replay value and the level design is bullshit.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2011, 04:22:39 PM »
Yes we should totally rely on third party mods and patches to make up for ZUN's shortcomings, right?

Lunatic being easy is a bad thing. If you're looking for easier difficulty, that what Easy, Normal and Hard mode are for. Play them.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2011, 04:26:09 PM »
Lunatic being easy is a bad thing. If you're looking for easier difficulty, that what Easy, Normal and Hard mode are for. Play them.

Emphasized for truth.  ;)

Also. The Ultra patches doesn't really have the best design ever.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2011, 04:42:49 PM »
IN Ultra seems pretty fair, on most of the stuff. Unless the guy changed it from when I last played it.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2011, 05:24:50 PM »
I haven't tried that one. Those I have tried however seems to be somewhat hit or miss. The idea is that it needs to be challenging but it everything also needs to be possible to do without dying or bombing. The Ultra patches for StB, SA and MoF doesn't really seem to do this.

Barrakketh

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Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2011, 07:21:27 PM »
This game's scoring system is my largest gripe about it.
This is my biggest problem with a lot of the series, particularly as it relates to bombs (and usually involves grazing while invulnerable).

Bomb spam, suiciding for more bombs, then spamming some more bombs to trivialize attacks (because all the bullets make for good grazing/whatever mechanic(s) are in place to boost item value) is one of the most retarded design decisions I've seen.  If it was a one-off thing it wouldn't be so bad, but ZUN seems content to keep it around.

I'd like to see him freeze the point value while you're invulnerable in every new game, at least for the bombs.
Cheating? I cannot even wrap my head around the point of it. Wouldn't you know you had cheated? How on Earth could you maintain crisp certainty of your superiority to all others? And if you're unable to do that, what's the point of anything?

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2011, 08:01:19 PM »
Again, I've only played a hard a couple times, but I didn't find it particularly easy. Yes it's easier than SA and UFO..But I wouldn't say it's significantly easier than any of the other Touhou games. The people saying the game is too easy, they keep mentioning UFO and SA.. Those games' aren't Touhou's average, not even close to it. They are the absolute most difficult in the series. So unless it's just me, unless 10D really is easy for the series as a whole (and I don't think it is), I dare say that people are complaining that Zun isn't making it harder at t he expense of newer people, despite their claims that they are taking away from the vets.

That being said, I thought the scoring mechanic would be considered good. But like I said I don't score myself, but people bring interesting points. Scoring is, for the most part, determined about when you trance, and there is no challenge to it. Have trance ready for this part, press the 10 second IWIN button, and pick your nose for 10 seconds. I was seeing the game as potentially good (For touhou) at scoring because of how souls linger near the top of the screen and are there for a limited time. It would encourage aggressive or close quarters play, which is more challenging, but not outright game-breaking punishing like MoF's system where you can play like an ace, and then lose  your entire chance of getting a highscore simply because you forgot to NOT kill 3 fairies right away.  But in the grand scheme of things, I suppose all those efforts are just too trivial to matter compared to your X10 trance mode invincibility modes.

There is one thing that does bother me with the difficulty in this game though, and it was mentioned already. One of Touhou's main good points IMO is that the series as a whole isn't actually THAT much easier than harder non-touhou shmups danmaku-wise. It's just easier because the player often gets 9 lives or whatever as opposed to 3-5. Having more lives by itself isn't what I consider great, but having challenging danmaku, with more lives, so that everyone can enjoy it all and not just the super pros, is great. 10D on the other hand, does have easier danmaku (even I agree there) but compensates (IMO) by giving the player less extends. Which, is just a silly decision IMO. It makes the game as a whole feel less intense, but prevents the very noobs (people who can't 1cc easy or whatever) from enjoying all of it anyways because now they have less lives to chew thru.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2011, 09:53:05 PM »
Again, I've only played a hard a couple times, but I didn't find it particularly easy. Yes it's easier than SA and UFO..But I wouldn't say it's significantly easier than any of the other Touhou games. The people saying the game is too easy, they keep mentioning UFO and SA.. Those games' aren't Touhou's average, not even close to it. They are the absolute most difficult in the series.

Touhou's average has no relevance. I want my stuff to be as difficult as SA at least. If it isn't, then its boring. Period. MoF is excused because its scoring makes it awesome. Plus, it has Aya and VoWG.

AJS

  • Danmakufu Scripter
Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2011, 10:13:37 PM »
Alright, so here are some of my thoughts on this game.

Pros:
- Yuyuko's, Yoshika's, Seiga's, Miko's, and Mamizou's themes (The first two and Miko's took a while to grow on me, but I feel in love with the rest almost immediately), ahh yes, and the themes for Stages 4, 5, and 6
- Game's a considerable challenge for me on Hard, which is good, cuz I wouldn't want this game to be too easy (hey don't make fun of me, Lunatic players, I'm still not that good yet :derp:)
- Spirit mechanic is interesting for collecting extra lives and bombs, to me at least
- Mamizou....much fun, and crazy character design xD

Cons:
- The Futo and Miko battles were largely disappointing for me.  I expected a rape-tacular Stage 5 boss, as always (i.e. EFFING SHOU AND EFFING RIN), and a final battle at least on par with the Byakuren battle, but the danmaku didn't quite deliver.  Miko's spell cards are all too easy for the most part, and can be bombed through somewhat easily (that, combined with the fact that it's extremely easy to get tons of bombs in this game, can make Miko a cakewalk...well, more of one than she already is...if you abused bombs/trance).  What's really quite disappointing was Miko's final spell card, which just doesn't cut it as a game-ending spell card (compared to, say, Scarlet Gensokyo, Hourai Jewel, Resurrection Butterfly, Divine Virtue of Wind God, for instance).
- The Extra Stage itself (not counting the boss battle) was also fairly disappointing, as I had made it through on my very first attempt to meet Mamizou
- Overdrives don't add much to the game--not NEARLY as much as the Last Words from Imperishable Night.

Overall Impression: Still a pretty decent game.  Not the best game, by far, but I think it was worth the wait, and I can't wait to see where the fandom goes with this game as far as theme remixes and fanart/doujin comics.

Lawence Codye

  • The Nine Tails of Subconscious...
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Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2011, 11:48:41 PM »
Okay, I will try to do this I guess...

Touhou 13 Ten Desires

Music : Liked just about all of it alot, the Stage 3 Boss theme still gets stuck in my head every once in a while, the Stage 6 Boss & Extra Stage themes along with it's Boss theme are notable favorites of mine.

Scoring : Only thing I like about it is that it makes getting extends & more so then that, bombs easier to get then before which is needed though not in such a manner, it's still better then only getting them for the reasons 1 would in SA or by extent UFO.  ZUN needs to really put more time into the scoring system in his games as they don't seem to have the right satisfaction ratio among hardcore players & "the other" players as I didn't even like it as it destroys death bombing & I mean seriously, just no, it's not even fun for me to do & I am 1 of the crowd previously stated as "the other" players.  Nothing else worth mentioning here so...we're done, we're done.

Playable Characters : This is from a perspective that is not referring to the story as I don't speak Japanese.  It seems this time around that there are even more characters around that have weak shot types when focused then in even UFO as both Marisa & Sanae are so very annoying to use because of this depending on their Power level that is & I don't even know when or in what way that is which is frustrating when trying to get through the game.  Reimu is once again the best character(to pick) for obvious reasons & Youmu though hard to use like in IN, is actually quite usable imo & though I haven't beaten the game with her, it's just because of my own fail level as a player but not so much for Sanae who is just not doing it for me even with her perks which only work well on the higher difficulties but because her shot type is so weak...yep...Anyway, I liked that ZUN fused(kind of did anyway) the shot types together but Reimu & in a small way, Marisa is the only 1s who benefited from it what so ever.  Lastly, Marisa's shot type is once again badly made, at certain levels her unfocused shot seems more powerful then her focused shot type but then at times it seems the way it is suppose to be with her focused shot type being better but with all that being said my biggest problem with her is that her lasers are piss poor weak considering their narrow range & all I mean they are suppose to give her range but in reality, they don't & Sanae just needs a re haul in regards to her shot type in general so...As far as bombing, Marisa's is the only 1 that sucks & the perks don't make up for it what so ever & it lasts too long...there is nothing really worth mentioning in regards to movement speed so umm, I'm done here.

Non-Playable Characters : This is from a perspective that is not referring to the story as I don't speak Japanese.  Well, I will say some things that seem that way but still...anyway...From the perspective of not knowing their personalities or whatever, I find them all appealing to a great extent except for Mononobi no Futo because of the reoccurring boat thing...again!?  Can we now have a game where I don't see a boat please as I saw too many of them in UFO to want to see any at all in the NEXT GAME in the main series of games, sorry, just no.  Kyouko & Mamizou are both really, REALLY adorable while Yoshika I find to most likely be very entertaining when I find out what it is that is going on in the dialog & Seiga I find to be the prettiest of them all though in close competition to some of the others & lastly, Miko as everyone is calling her so I will to is impressively designed imo.  Nice to see Yuyuko again as it is again nice to see Kogasa & Nue though both of the later could have been characters I haven't seen in a second game to date instead of I am satisfied I guess.

Difficulty ; Here we go...here we go, let's do this.

Stages : I find Stages 1-3 to be actually nothing different then past experiences but once I hit Stage 4, there was a huge increase in tempo or speed that was annoying & lasted til Stage 6...at first anyway but that went away after I got used to it which didn't take even a week, Stage 6 is meh which is good imo as I don't think in these games they are meant to be an actual stage but just some puddies you smack around while waiting for the "big bad boss" to show up though I didn't like only getting 1 bomb fragment in that entire flurry of wasted time so again, it was so-so, meh.  Extra Stage was utter trash & I dare you to disagree with me, it was just a rehash of previous Extra Stages bunched together & I mean that literally, go look & tell me I'm wrong, didn't even enjoy going threw it I mean there has only been 7 or in the case of the PC-98 games, 13 Extra Stages(not counting Phantasm Stage of PCB cause it was obvious a rehash which was fine imo) so he should still have some good ideas for this stage, just saying, I was not impressed & frustrated at the same time, not a good combination.  The better of the stages are Stage 6(What?!  Yes!) & Stage 3, the rest were forgettable in all honesty.

Mid Bosses/Bosses :
Saigyouji Yuyuko was done correctly, not TOO easy but not too difficult either like some others I won't mention or remember at the moment.
Kasodani Kyouko was first off, boring & at times seemed to be a rushed job of potentially borderline broken(not in the difficult way) patterns & at times ignore-able patterns as well which were both due to that sound barrier thing she does which ricochet the bullets every which way meaning I may have wanted to give her a suffocating Hug after whoever I was playing with would destroy her but...she is WAY more of a annoying runt then an actual Boss like she was suppose to be.
Miyako Yoshika is 1 of the better done bosses though she has a pattern or 2 that is fade out-able on like the Spell Card with the purple slashes of bullets, she also has some stuff that is more aggravating that enjoyable like the point of the word challenge not being the word difficult was missed completely like her 1st & last Spell Card being a pain, more so her last 1 as it requires 1 to make some resounding drifts around the boss that variate in direction each time you need to do it & is strict on the time interval if you want to do it really quickly(only done it once perfectly, ONCE!) so she is alright, not terrific but not dreadfully unamusing either like someone previously mentioned.
Kaku Seiga who I could have sworn had a longer name somewhere on the screen besides Kaku, I think it was Keiku but whatever, not important...what is important is that(& I need to use this comparison to evaluate her so) the duet of Bosses that were Stage 4 of Mystic Square rains all over their parade everyday of the week I mean poor Kaku can't even generate a worthy pattern on her own to save her life, HER LIFE I mean come on now, Yoshika completed her in that battle so it was really like battling 1 person who was no better then any 1 other person I have fought in any other Touhou game to date I mean at least the formally mentioned duet was a challenge worthy of a Stage 4 Boss in anyway but nope, I get this...only thing difficult about her patterns were the speed they were coming at for the difficulty I was playing on which was always impressive but there was nothing else to anything she did so after 1 time failing to beat her I almost perfected her on an actual playthrough of the game but I fail so I had to bomb something that was catching me a bit off guard so whatever, my point is that she is a Boss, just not a Stage 4 Boss, more like a Stage 2 Boss or even a Stage 1 Boss depending on some of the perspectives around here.
Mononobi no Futo, whose name I remember due to it's flow being similar to Mononoke which is obviously from Mononoke-Hime...is actually leaving me with mixed feelings, her Spell Cards are okay though 1 or 2 of them are so so very easy like the 1 with the circle of bullets & the rain of shard bullets raining down along with it or the 1 with the red & orange bullets especially but her normal patterns that aren't Spell Cards can die as they require too much of an good calibration on whatever you are using to move your character around to do them without too much trouble but otherwise they are not a problem or too easy so she is though a failure in comparison to Yoshika a decent boss as well.
Toyosatomimi no Miko, while I am hoping she is some sort of animal girl Miko was the most enjoyable challenge wise of the entire roster of characters, she is actually pretty fun for me to battle & the only real problem I have for her is that her final Spell Card is actually in all honesty, a disgrace to say the least, I still have a hard time doing it but that is because I currently am forced to use a analog stick which is known to be a terrible choice when playing these types of games...On the other hand, her normal patterns that aren't Spell Cards needed much more variety like any other previous Stage 6 Boss in any main Touhou game & a couple of her Spell Cards are easier then they should be for whatever reason & lastly, she doesn't seem to have a Spell Card with any wow value that isn't just a almost rehash of 1 of Utsuho's or some other boss' Spell Cards & the 1 with the bullets blitzing away from her is just fun to do, all in all, I can except this from a Stage 6 Boss besides the Final Spell Card which was rushed & was more so irritating like Utsuho's last Spell Card then a challenge like Byakuren's last Spell Card but anyway, like this boss fight.
Spoiler:
Futatsuiwa Mamizou is in all honesty the most fun I ever had with an Extra Boss outside of Suwako who is most likely never going to be beaten, her patterns seem easy compared to even Suwako's or any of the other 1s but they are not by any means too easy for Extra Mode imo, her Non Spell Cards much like most other Extra Stage Bosses are until it hits the later part of the battle & then it just becomes boring as hell & a bit more challenging though not much of course, I have & most likely never will get to the Time Out Spell Card if she has 1 because I just can't do well enough against her with my stupid analog stick on my PC controller so I only have seen up to the spell where the birdies & wolves/doggies are coming from the left & right respectively & I either lose before being able to attempt this card or before getting past the next normal pattern that follows this, overall, say what you will but she isn't terrible for an Extra Stage Boss, just not 1 of the harder ones which I am glad for since I need a change from the norm or whatever.
Tatara Kogasa was easy even on Hard & most likely even Lunatic & I only see myself ever failing her Spell Card on Lunatic for obvious reasons, she was okay but could have been more difficult without making the game any more frustrating to beat what so ever but what can you do.
Soga no Tojiko I wish was 1 of the actual bosses but I always wish this in regards to 1 of the Mid Boss exclusive characters, anyway, she was more exciting & even challenging then the actual Boss of both the previous stage & the stage you are on when you fight her which is good...for her...she was perfectly fine, don't want a Mid Boss being hell on earth, that is suppose to be reserved for the actual Boss of the same stage, though I do find her a bit on the easy side, I will get to that in a sec.
Spoiler:
Houjuu Nue was a combination of annoying & challenging that I am used to seeing from the norm of Extra Stage Mid Bosses from this franchise, her first Spell Card was fine but too easy to do from the bottom of the screen which is sad, her second Spell Card is the Spell Card I hate of the entire collection of Spell Cards the game has to offer & I purposely bomb through it cause it is BS, BS! though her last Spell Card is just a piss poor version of Toyosatomimi no Miko's Last Spell's first phase which is both just annoying & kind of easy actually, I only fail it when I am exhibiting some kind of aching or cramps on my hands...at least she isn't Ex-Keine, that is for sure or I would not be happy at all, but I digress.

In general, the Difficulty of the game was a bit on the easy side but I figured this would happen simply based on the Scoring System main attraction, other wise known as Trance Mode or whatever...It could only really be implemented the way it was but there still could have been some risks thrown in there & not have that stupid nuking of the Death Bomb's interval upon having the gauge full but what can you do.  I also don't like being forced to do something at a specific moment in order to get more extends or bombs so I am not a friend of any of the scoring systems after MoF's which I don't really like either but it handled Extra Extends better then 10Ds did.

Overall Impression = B

Hopes for the Future = I am hoping that TH14 or whatever the next game is handles Extra Extends & Bombs, Difficulty variations between the different difficulties & among the stages themselves on any given difficulty including Extra of course & lastly, handle the player characters way better while also introducing another character & this time someone I haven't used in a previous game already for the new character as I do like the multiple options for characters & don't completely mind the vanishing of the multiple shot types for any given character as I don't find it appealing as I used to anyway.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 11:51:30 PM by Lawence Codye »
I am the Nine Tails of Subconscious...

Come & your greatest desires will be reality...

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2011, 01:49:20 AM »
Touhou's average has no relevance. I want my stuff to be as difficult as SA at least. If it isn't, then its boring. Period. MoF is excused because its scoring makes it awesome. Plus, it has Aya and VoWG.

Is this a troll post? I honestly don't know. How can you say you like Touhou but say 10 out of 12 other games have no relevance? In any case they do have relavance. This is a Touhou board, with Touhou fans, in the Touhou section, they're VERY relevant. Touhou isn't SA and UFO, not by a longshot. Again, if you dislike the game that's ok, if you dislike the series that's ok too. But my point was that I can't imagine anybody can honestly say that this game is really all that easy compared to Touhou's average, and you proved it in spades. But you're stuckup if you truly believe that your opinion is some kind of  universal fact, that UFO and SA are the only games that matter in the series.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2011, 03:02:31 AM »
What about EoSD and Mystic Square? You didn't 1cc Mystic Square Lunatic yet, and neither have I. And EoSD is pretty tough too.

But MoF and SA are pretty quality too. Plus, I'd rather have an easier game than one that's hard for all sorts of wrong reasons. But I haven't even played 10D at the moment, still need to do so.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2011, 03:56:08 AM »
So the problem with something that is 'too easy' is that the experienced players are left out. This is true.

With similar reasoning, no matter what the difficulty of the game is, the spectra of all 4 difficulties will inevitably miss out players of a certain skill levels.
For example. when UFO came out, some players were unhappy for it being 'too hard'. And from what I observe UFO - Easy was actually not easy enough for some. That was what the previous Easy-s were for, to bridge the skill gap.

Hence as the game will always be, relatively, 'bad' for some players. Similarly it is 'good' for other players. Overall it is just as 'good' or 'bad' as every other Touhou game.

All this sounds like government policies yea? Some class of people would always be left out.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 03:59:47 AM by かけふみ »

Sapz

  • There's no escape.
  • *
  • It's time to burn!
Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2011, 03:59:43 AM »
Touhou's average has no relevance. I want my stuff to be as difficult as SA at least. If it isn't, then its boring. Period. MoF is excused because its scoring makes it awesome.
This isn't even an argument. I imagine you've struggled with easier games than SA Lunatic in the past - were they still boring when they were too hard for you to beat? I remember a while back you were saying the same thing in the other direction - UFO was apparently bullshit because it was too hard. Not every game has to suit your personal skill level exactly, different games are pitched at a variety of audiences rather than you specifically.

Fake-edit: Haha, ninja'd saying pretty much the same thing. :V

Having said this, I would agree that from what I've seen and heard from others, 10D is too easy for scoreplay. It's nothing to do with the base difficulty of the attacks (although these are also a little easier on the whole compared to some previous entries), but unlike most games where scoring becomes progressively more difficult as you get better at it, scoring here appears to get easier the more you get to grips with it, and has been mentioned you end up spending larger and larger periods of time doing nothing much while completely invincible even on the highest difficulty.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 04:02:43 AM by Sapz »
Let's fight.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2011, 04:21:55 AM »
My opinion:  This game is ass and the only thing redeeming it is the music.
Quote from: FukiBogus
the music.
Oh wait.  :|

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2011, 04:59:46 AM »
I pulled myself out of a massively long shmup burnout to give this game a legitimate try.

I can't get over how... safe this game feels.  I'm going to inevitably draw comparisons to UFO here, because the two games just feel like complete opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to the 'vanilla' Touhou games.  UFO was so controversial when it came out, with its outlandish gameplay (well, outlandish by ZUN's standards anyway) and almost arcade-like brutality.  TD, on the other hand, feels like ZUN wanted to go with something basic.  The patterns are simplistic (even the 'gimmicky' ones), the scoring system is really easy to understand and abuse (and a variant of the Hyper mechanic from DDP, which is already pretty overused in both Cave games and doujin shmups already).

After playing it for a few days, I sort of lost interest and my burnout continued unhindered.  At one point I game-overed to the final pattern on Lunatic and felt really frustrated.  Not because I really wanted the 1cc, but because I just didn't feel like playing through the entire game again.  >_>

I dunno.  IMO, there's really nothing wrong with easy shmups.  I can play through something like LLS or Daioh's first loop and enjoy myself, even if they don't exactly push me to my limits.  There's also nothing wrong with straightforward shmups, as long as the design is good enough.  But in the end, I can't really imagine myself sinking very much time into this when other games do everything this game does, but better.  If I want to kick back and play a 'sluggish' Touhou game, I'd rather just do a survival run of PCB or IN.  For Hyper-based scoreplay... well, I'm not a big fan of hyper gimmicks, but I'd guess DOJ or Crimson Clover is more worth your time.

Stylistically... yeah, not much of an opinion either way on that.  The music, while not mindblowing, is enjoyable enough.  Alternate tracks for Trance mode is a nice touch.  The character designs don't interest me that much, except for Mamizou.  She's awesome.

And now I have a huge urge to play some UFO.  dammit :V

Sapz

  • There's no escape.
  • *
  • It's time to burn!
Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2011, 05:20:25 AM »
I pretty much agree with this; it feels a little like Touhou-by-numbers except for that hilarious Extra boss, which was an interesting surprise.

Also,
I pulled myself out of a massively long shmup burnout
Any chance of some Strikers 1999 competition? I've developed a liking for Psikyo lately. BV
Let's fight.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2011, 06:11:50 AM »
I'm not in the mood for walls of text, but I will submit my own opinion in short form:

The characters are eh. Their backstories are certainly interesting, but I find it really difficult to like such...uh, evil characters. My favorite by far is Yoshika, silly bird-brain. :3

The music is wonderful. It took me a bit to get attached to some of the songs, but in the end I've grown to like all of them. Of course, this is one thing ZUN is consistent about through all games.

The scoring system? Even as someone who could care less about scoring systems beyond their survival benefits, yeah this was kinda your bad ZUN. :V The world record I watched was hilarious because the dude didn't even fight the bosses. When he wasn't trancing, he was bombing for trance. When he had no bombs, he suicided for death-trance and the chance to get more bombs for more trance. MORE POINTS FOR THE SCORE THRONE.

But most importantly, the game itself. What do I think? It's pretty plain as day to say that the difficulty has been reduced, but that's no issue for me. For me, the game is fun. While the danmaku may not be all that demanding, it certainly isn't something I can blow off and not concentrate on. Even though it's often easy, I enjoy it. Yes, I enjoy a simple, easy, abusable game that doesn't reward risk. I wonder though, how would all of you badmouthing the game's difficulty act if you were to go through the game without intentionally trancing at all? Any time you death-trance, stop shooting and don't move until the effect wears off. See then how easy the game is. :3

All in all, it's not my favorite Touhou game; not as tight, not as variable. However, I still enjoy it and will continue to love it as I do most of the series.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2011, 11:07:54 AM »
Is this a troll post?

It wasn't intended as one. I admit it was a bit on the harsh side though. I put too much of my own opinion into it. I suppose a comparison to the more mainstream Touhou games would probably be more fair but the thing is just, I put effort into learning SA and UFO. I need this challenge to be maintained to avoid having things be too easy for me. Its not like its only my opinion that matters, of course not. What I'm saying is simply that this game is too easy and that is why I don't like it. I point to SA and UFO to explain what I expect out of a Touhou game.

All this sounds like government policies yea? Some class of people would always be left out.

You can't really compare this to politics. Its different.

I wonder though, how would all of you badmouthing the game's difficulty act if you were to go through the game without intentionally trancing at all? Any time you death-trance, stop shooting and don't move until the effect wears off. See then how easy the game is. :3

Try 1cc'ing UFO without picking up UFO's. I don't see why you would have to artificially enhance the difficulty of the game. Its something I would do for my favorite games.

I don't think it would do much of a difference. I'm talking about the gameplay from a, no bombs, no trances perspective. That's what decides the difficulty for me since most Touhou games, if not all of them, can be 1cc'd without too much hazzle through careful resource-management. Once you got the planning down that is.

What about EoSD and Mystic Square? You didn't 1cc Mystic Square Lunatic yet, and neither have I. And EoSD is pretty tough too.

EoSD has some good danmaku but too many flaws for me to properly appreciate it. MS Square... Game feels very slow until the Stage 4 boss so no, haven't bothered with it. Its better than TD though.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2011, 01:22:58 PM »
I don't think anyone has yet given any explanation why Lunatic shouldn't be hard. It's not what the people who felt left out by UFO play anyway and I don't see much sense in suddenly toning down the hardest difficulty, when the general trend lately has been making it harder.
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Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2011, 04:40:33 PM »
I don't think anyone has yet given any explanation why Lunatic shouldn't be hard. It's not what the people who felt left out by UFO play anyway and I don't see much sense in suddenly toning down the hardest difficulty, when the general trend lately has been making it harder.

But the problem with this line of thinking is that you're judging this trend by the last two games alone. SA and UFO were harder games, and had difficult lunatics to match. But before this, was there really ever a steady increase of difficulty? In my opinion, LLS was harder than SoEW, MS was harder than LLS, EoSD was slightly easier, then PCB was easier still, IN a bit easier, MoF about the same, and only then did the difficulty increase with SA and UFO. When ZUN said he was making the game easier, who's to be surprised when suddenly every difficulty is a step down? Perhaps ZUN wanted to give the less-skilled player a chance to 1cc a hard mode, or even a lunatic? It's not as though ZUN is tailor-fitting the game to fit every person's desires. This time he's looking to the less-skilled players it seems.

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Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2011, 04:52:30 PM »
Perhaps ZUN wanted to give the less-skilled player a chance to 1cc a hard mode, or even a lunatic? It's not as though ZUN is tailor-fitting the game to fit every person's desires. This time he's looking to the less-skilled players it seems.

I don't get it. Does the satisfaction come from clearing a difficulty named Lunatic or does the satisfaction come from clearing something that's actually difficult?

This game's Lunatic mode is really a Lunatic mode by name only. What's gonna happen then? People go 1cc TD Lunatic, think they are awesome and go play SA and UFO only to find out that they are not? I don't understand what good that would do. And it still doesn't explain why there wouldn't just be a fifth difficulty named Overdrive. If nothing else, then just keep Lunatic difficult and tone down the rest of the difficulties. That way I guess most people should be satisfied.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 09:53:09 PM by Zengeku »

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Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2011, 05:00:41 PM »
This game Lunatic is really a Lunatic mode by name only. What's gonna happen then? People go 1cc TD Lunatic, think they are awesome and go play SA and UFO only to find out that they are not?

I disagree. I still got no chance of 1cc'ing SA or UFO lunatic (heck, I'm even having trouble with UFO hard),
despite already done the lunatic mode of the 4 Windows games before that.
I view SA and UFO as anomaly, not as "normal", and I'm not surprised that ZUN stepped back to the more "normal" difficulty.

That said, it'd be nice to have an actual built in Ultra / Overdrive mode though. That'd be fun to play.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2011, 05:05:37 PM »
I don't get it.

Indeed. I'm just unable to see the point here, since I don't see how making Lunatic so much easier would serve anybody. The people unable to deal with the difficulty have always had three other ones to play, so what do they have to gain from an additional easy Lunatic (which pattern-wise seems to be the easiest one to date)?
"First of all, for those who've cleared the game, please try playing for more points." - ZUN

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2011, 05:12:55 PM »
I disagree. I still got no chance of 1cc'ing SA or UFO lunatic (heck, I'm even having trouble with UFO hard),

Yes. That's why the anomaly is awesome then. You can just play Hard if Lunatic is too hard right? People that aren't as good as you can play Normal or Easy. The people who have been playing for a long time and can take it can play Lunatic. Everyone is happy right? TD. It only provides for the less-skilled players. There isn't anything for people like me.

I wonder, how would less-skilled players think about UFO if only Lunatic was available? Then they were the ones who would be left out while the lunatics would love it. That's not how UFO is. But that's basically what TD is. Just reversed.

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Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2011, 05:50:48 PM »
I do think it's probably a mistake to dismiss every other game in the series, and judge 10D based on SA and UFO alone. This is really short-sighted.

On the other hand, everyone has their own preferences. If Zen chooses to narrow his focus on two games out of the entire series, then that's his particular standard. It's not a point you can even argue against, really, as that's his metric stick for Good Touhou Game.

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Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2011, 07:10:44 PM »
Its not short-sightedness. I simply don't have much choice in this matter. I have played these games for a very long time. I don't dismiss stuff like IN because I think its bad but because its simply way too easy. It doesn't challenge me and when it does its through stupid concepts like lasers that give you no indication as to when they turn themselves on. It doesn't change the fact that I tear through the game though. SA and UFO - and once again MoF - is the games that truly do matter to me. Its the only games that still manages to provide that awesome entertainment that I got into this series for in the first place. That's why I exclusively compare TD to those games. There is no sense in me comparing them to stuff I don't play any longer.

And UFO. It took me a hell of a lot time to develop the skills to properly play that game. No spell practice and no desire to play those stages really killed my progress speed. Still, sooner or later I started to see some actual improvement and gained some consistency. At this point I realized that I had been wrong the entire time last summer and I was just too stuck up to realize it. Now that I have that skill, the older games have lost their entertainment factor because they are now too easy and the new games doesn't carry on the trend of SA and UFO but instead makes a game that rivals PCB in easiness. A game that I managed to 1cc before even unlocking stage practice with four lives in stock. On my first try.

If SA and UFO indeed is the exceptions, then I'm really disappointed. I like Touhou, I really do, that's why I want it to be fun for me too! I want to appreciate PCB and IN again. I want to. But those games just doesn't have more to deliver. Sure they were challenging once but not anymore. I need new and bigger challenges to improve. Not easier games. That is why TD fails so heavily for me.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 07:14:16 PM by Zengeku »

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Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2011, 07:13:20 PM »
stuff

I'd like you to go back and read my post again. It seems like you're repeating what I just said, only with more words.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2011, 07:16:13 PM »
I'd like you to go back and read my post again. It seems like you're repeating what I just said, only with more words.

I understand that. But you still called it short-sightedness and that's not what I believe it is. I just wanted to thoroughly elaborate on this matter.

Re: Soo.. uhh, "review" Touhou 13
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2011, 08:47:15 PM »
I don't know if anyone remembers this, but I'm pretty sure ZUN said something when UFO came out like "oh and I toned the difficulty down from what it was supposed to be, so stop complaining".

Also, I don't mind PCB being easy because the Yuyuko fight is still incredibly fucking epic. The only stage 6 that's more epic is Byakuren, but that's because the game is so difficult that being at the finish line and having the music sing you the last bit of the way there is amazing.

And then you game over on LFO and you cry. ;_;
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