What exactly IS a "mature" game?

[KomeijiKoishi]

So, when I was randomly browsing TVtropes and looked at their page for "Deadly Preminition", I found a link at the very bottom to a comparison of that game and Heavy Rain. Yeah, it was trolling, but it did have a few good points:

"The game is billed as an interactive movie, and what that means is that it essentially plays itself while you make some choices now and then. We've already had that game. It was called Dragon's Lair and that was published in 1983. The story was just cobbled together from M Night Shyamalan movies and then covered in David Cage's spunk. The gameplay is basically Guitar Hero without the music, and ideas lifted from Quantic Dream's last game, Indigo Prophecy. Hardly a breathtaking new vision for what games could be."

And that made me think. They wanted to make a mature "game" because the average age of a gamer is 33. But when I watch game footage of it, it doesn't really feel like a game. It's more like a movie with a few QTEs thrown in. And interactive movies, like stated above, aren't anything new. Hell, if you watch Spoony's review of "Johnny Mmemonic", you learn that games like "Ripper" and "Black Dahlia" already accomplished the serious interactive movie in the 90s.

So, here's the question: how could an actual mature game look like?

[Garlyle]

They wanted to make a mature "game" because the average age of a gamer is 33. But when I watch game footage of it, it doesn't really feel like a game. It's more like a movie with a few QTEs thrown in. And interactive movies, like stated above, aren't anything new.

All I can say right now is...

A) You've got a fairly narrow view of what can actually constitute a game, and,
B) You're allowing that to let you completely overlook whether or not Heavy Rain is mature.

(Also starting off a discussion by criticizing a game you haven't actually played yourself is a terrible, terrible idea)

[KomeijiKoishi]

All I can say right now is...

A) You've got a fairly narrow view of what can actually constitute a game, and,
B) You're allowing that to let you completely overlook whether or not Heavy Rain is mature.

(Also starting off a discussion by criticizing a game you haven't actually played yourself is a terrible, terrible idea)

Well, I knew I should have added "Please call me out if my arguments don't make any sense". But then again, I'm a moron.

Also, I didn't wanted to criticize Heavy Rain. Sorry if I sounded like that.

[Garlyle]

Fair enough.  Long story short, I think we've already hit a point of "Mature" game by two different definitions.  Possibly a third.

Mature Content: Intended for an adult audience, generally due to content that shouldn't be arguably viewed by the underage (Language, blood, etc).  This comes with the potential to be utterly "juvenile" and/or gratuitous, etc.; although to be fair, these kind of games are also unafraid to involve content and ideas that most other games would balk at, and that deserves to be recognised too.

Matured game: The gameplay at its heart is somehow matured.  I.... have come to realise I have no idea what this would imply, but I do feel like noting that I don't believe what kind of gameplay is presented to the player actually can influence whether a game is mature or not.

Mature themes: Probably the best examples of "mature" gaming.  These are just like any other games in many respects, but these are games in which the story and characters are portrayed with a great deal more depth and realism.  Their struggles go beyond just "I need to save the world/stop the killer/etc" and enter "And I need to deal with the loss of my son" territory as well.  It doesn't have to be limited to a real world; just one in which motivation and consequence of action is important, and the things that happen have very real-world parallels and themes.  These kind of games usually place the gameplay itself secondary (Heavy Rain, Fragile), or separate general gameplay from the story greatly (Red Dead Redemption), in an effort to focus on the story they're trying to tell.

But, uh... the problem with trying to come up with how to classify a mature game, is that what qualities make someone or something mature is hard to tell as it is.  We can't even decide sometimes on the kinds of things that would make a human mature, nevermind some inanimate object or creation.

[trancehime]

Some food for thought for you viewers...

Whether a game is actually mature or not is highly subjective. It is impossible to quantify an abstract concept such as maturity into something simple and easily discernable... Especially considering each and every one of us may have differing views on what maturity actually is. An overlap of beliefs is certain, but again, it is very hard to pinpoint the exact definition of a "mature game." In fact, this is extremely similar to the "What is a hardcore gamer?" thread made some time ago. But let me move on to something that Garlyle made me mull over for a few moments. He mentions something about "mature themes," and how it can be the best example of "mature gaming." From what I can understand from his logic, "mature gaming" strays away from the importance of the gameplay and instead delves into the more creative aspects of the game - the depth of the characters in the game and the scope of the story/plot that forms the game. Garlyle even admits that this variety of game tends to place the gameplay as secondary... This made me wonder.

Many visual novels I have played present to us the players at times an extremely deep and wonderfully told story (Saya no Uta, Planetarian, Ever17, just to name a few), and indeed, these visual novels fit the criteria that Garlyle has mentioned. Furthermore, these visual novels tend to include "mature content," as well, advertised to only be played by non-minors - those who are over eighteen years of age (that didn't stop people like me from voraciously playing and appreciating those games anyway). However, many people I know seem to dismiss the idea that such games could ever hit the core of a "mature game," simply by the mere fact that it presents scenes of a highly sexual nature, and they even cite examples of games made from a sole entertainment perspective (The Lightning Warrior Raidy and Do You Like Horny Bunnies? series, the Welcome to Pia Carrot! series, and even the non-H inclusive Tokimeki Memorial series) which present knee-deep themes at best. Just as I was typing this, someone from this very here board mentioned this on IRC:

18:07:16 (BulgariaOnmyoji) mature games should be mature in mentality, sex games are for teens

What exactly constitutes a "mature mentality?" Can this "mature mentality" be found in teenagers? Are sex games solely for teens? We have to ask ourselves these very questions in order to consolidate a consensus within the community on what a mature game actually is, for us, both on a surface level and a personal level. Furthermore, what is the implication of a certain demographic in society playing these "mature games?" We need to answer some very important questions if we wish to clear this up. Going back to my visual novel example, do these games present a playing field conducive to a "mature mentality?" Many visual novels, especially those of the eroge variety, don't really take themselves very seriously, aside from great works like Saya no Uta and Planetarian (which by the way I recommend HIGHLY to people starting to get into the VN business - both are readily available in English). If not, can other video games produce the same playing field conducive to a "mature mentality?" If so, can we consider these games "mature?" Why? What quantifies "maturity" in a video game?

It's all very hard to say for certain, but I hope people at least take the time to think about it.