Author Topic: How can I get better in Touhou?  (Read 14407 times)

Helix ⑨

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How can I get better in Touhou?
« on: December 08, 2009, 03:01:27 PM »
Hello there maidens,

Soon I will reach my 6-months-playing-touhou anniversary, in that time I think I achieved an average ammount of accomplishments. My main problem is that I don't know where to go from here, I've seem to hit a wall in skill level. I can clear extras, but not with minimal lives lost. I can clear 2 lunatics but not without continues. I can 1cc hard, but most of the games seem impossible. So I am looking for tips or tricks you guys did in order to bypass this 'border' in skill I reached, did you grind lunatic stages over and over just to train reflexes? Stuff like that.

Quick list of accomplishments (note i don't play the 98 games):
Extra clear: All but SA
Lunatic Clear: EoSD, IN
Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN (almost MoF, but keep failing)
Normal 1cc: All but SA
edit: 1ccd PoFV lunatic
So basically I've beaten all normal and extra stages exept for SA, for some reason it seems way harder to 1cc than the other games.

So any advice on stuff to do in order to get better is welcome, I don't mind grinding or memorizing stuff but my real goal is to increase my basic skills like dodging and death bombing.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 09:02:46 PM by Kawaii Yokai »

Bananamatic

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2009, 03:24:08 PM »
hurr
Try some faster shmups.
Dodonpachi certainly improved my deathbombing as you'll get used to the fact that there isn't any.

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 03:35:00 PM »
I can clear 2 lunatics but not without continues.

Then you haven't cleared Lunatics...

My best advice is to play one level above the one you're playing at currently. You'll get better by playing the harder difficulty.

For example, I've been attempting to beat UFO Lunatic for stage practice. When I tried Hard just there, I smashed through everything up to Shou without breaking a sweat, entering 7/1. I then stupidly let myself relax and ended up clearing the game 0/2, but that's not the point. A couple of months ago I was whining that Hard was BS, and now I've proven myself wrong.
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Bananamatic

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 03:36:19 PM »
A couple of months ago I was whining that Hard was BS, and now I've proven myself wrong.
Hard isn't BS, Ichirin is.

Helix ⑨

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Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 03:37:14 PM »
I've seen some of those games, they seem way too flashy and weird for me. I'd rather stick to touhou  :-[

@Arcengal, that really sounds like a good tip. Since I've been trying to 1cc MoF hard I guess I'll learn more by actually doing it a little more difficult

 

Bananamatic

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 03:39:54 PM »
I've seen some of those games, they seem way too flashy and weird for me. I'd rather stick to touhou  :-[

@Arcengal, that really sounds like a good tip. Since I've been trying to 1cc MoF hard I guess I'll learn more by actually doing it a little more difficult
I've found it weird at first as well, but then I've actually started liking them more than Touhou. Shame that I can't import more Cave games.

Seriously, try something faster than Touhou. Or play random lunatic stages.

?q

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Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 03:48:07 PM »

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2009, 03:58:46 PM »
Hard isn't BS, Ichirin is.

Her third non-card is, yes, but the rest of the fight is manageable.
On hard.

 :-X
Quote from Myosotis:
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ebarrett

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2009, 06:29:17 PM »
I sense a lack of StB and Phantasmagorias. For all their unfairness and occasional brutality, they pretty much force you to get better. By the way, anything below "lunatic" for the Phantasmagorias is a waste of time and will do nothing but annoy you.

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2009, 06:31:56 PM »
Lunatic is annoying as well on it. I'm not sure how many runs I've had ruined by Shiki, this being with both the cheap characters and some of the noncheap ones.

Zetzumarshen

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 06:36:54 PM »
Modest tips. Take it at your discretion :)

  • Don't throw away losing games (restarts). Dying at stage one is very painful and most likely negate your chance to 1cc the game, but if you have the willpower, don't restart that game. Learning other stages is important too.
  • Study other people replays.
  • Check your physical level. Ensure you are healthy or get enough sleep.
  • Balance your full run and stage practice run. Doing full runs improves your composure. Practice runs improves your technique.
  • Pause often on uncertain condition and failed plan. Try to take the plan B, or make one at that time. It will not always work, but better than nothing, and you could use that plan B if the condition arise again.


ebarrett

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 06:39:29 PM »
Lunatic is annoying as well on it. I'm not sure how many runs I've had ruined by Shiki, this being with both the cheap characters and some of the noncheap ones.

He's trying to get better, I'm suggesting PoDD/PoFV because these will make someone a better player (as opposed to one who micromemorizes everything but can't sightread for shit). I'm not saying he needs to clear the Phantasmagorias to become a better player. Non-lunatic is annoying and useless because the bullet density/speed is a lot lower, and the rounds take longer.

If you're annoyed at not beating Shiki you can either 1. grind it/learn it or 2. play match mode which is more or less completely impossible anyway (save for some well-known pairings) and see how long you can last. That will improve your skills. A lot. Try some Marisa vs. Komachi, don't expect to win, enjoy.

Bananamatic

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 06:46:11 PM »
StB is lame as hell.

Most of the cards don't involve any dodging.

ebarrett

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 07:04:37 PM »
StB is lame as hell.

Most of the cards don't involve any dodging.

You can live in denial if you want to.
eeeh more like WHATEVER, I QUIT

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 07:41:23 PM »
StB is lame as hell.

Most of the cards don't involve any dodging.
That's because a huge part is finding a good spot to get each of your shots in, and since you can't take photos while focused you have to find a way to minimize your risk while prepping the camera.

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Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2009, 07:52:23 PM »
My best advice is to play one level above the one you're playing at currently. You'll get better by playing the harder difficulty.



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Iryan

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Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2009, 08:01:30 PM »
StB is lame as hell.

Most of the cards don't involve any dodging.
I'ts true, most of the cards have some amount of memorization to them, but this, well, puzzle element is part of the challenge and fun in it, just as usually half of the cards in any given extra stage are trick based and pretty much redundant if you know how to do it. If you don't like that kind of thing, it doesn't make it a bad game. Relax, buddy.  :V

How about you try yourself some Ex-8, 10-6 or 9-6? I'd call that dodging. Fun dodging, even. 9-6 in particular is all about sightreading and dodging streams of randomized claustrophobic bullets and randomized fast bullets at the same time while not drifting too far from the center. And you need to be able to read it well enough to figure out a periodical safespot to zoom and/or close in on Kaguya. For kicks, get all but the last picture, then time it out.  :P


Edit: Attached a score.dat for StB to this post. Have fun.  :V
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 08:23:16 PM by Iryan »
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Bananamatic

Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2009, 08:04:00 PM »
How about you try yourself some Ex-8, 10-6 or 9-6? I'd call that dodging. Fun dodging, even. 9-6 in particular is all about sightreading and dodging streams of randomized claustrophobic bullets and randomized fast bullets at the same time while not drifting too far from the center. And you need to be able to read it well enough to figure out a periodical safespot to zoom and/or close in on Kaguya. For kicks, get all but the last picture, then time it out.  :P
Then give me a score.dat or something.

I've reached st5(finished everything before that) and everything from that on was pure cheese - I seriously don't want to spend an hour figuring out how to move so I don't get walled.

Ghaleon

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Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2009, 08:10:05 PM »
So any advice on stuff to do in order to get better is welcome, I don't mind grinding or memorizing stuff but my real goal is to increase my basic skills like dodging and death bombing.

Do you play stage select mode at all? I found when I 1cc'd lunatic EoSD, it helped alot to just stage select mode stages 4,5 and 6 alot (3 occasionally, though not as much). This made me better, and it was more fun. Trying to 1cc a game ove rand over again when you can't do it is just frusterating. I mean you'll inevitably die countless times on stuff that you say to yourself "!#%#!% Now I can't 1cc this cuz I died to THAT, I shouldn't die to that! wtf!).

But in stage select mode, you die once or twice, or 3 times, to the dumbest things, and it doesn't matter. Just finish the stage, try again, and try to do better. Try to make it so you can beat all the stages using stage select mode without dying more than 8 times total or whatever  (or however many lives you get in that particular Touhou), you'll be playing as much, and you wont have the frusteration.

Playing other STG games is good practice too. I found that after I stopped playing Touhou for awhile, I had fun with eXceed 3rd (2nd is more popular but it's not as similar to Touhou at all), you may wanna give it a try. It's the closest STG to Touhou I can find. Alot of the vets don't like it for various reasons, one being (in my opinion) that it is too easy for them. I mean, it's not an easy game per say, it's just not Touhou, so, it lacks the weird charm Touhou has. You know, the kind that somehow makes any game or movie cooler just by sticking Marisa's head on the lead character or whatever >=P.

So anyway, move to stage select modes, play on a difficulty that's too hard for you on them, or at least pushes you towards a new goal.

I know how you feel, you're scared you wont get any better, because you aren't improving as fast as you were when you were newer. But you really do, and it's hard to notice. I mean I felt like I haven't improved my shooting game skills for half a year myself, and then I tried to 1cc normal SA again just yesterday. Last time I did so, it was really damn hard, and it was just when my "I'm not getting any better anymore" phase STARTED. I played like an idiot, I was dying to so many things that I know I could have avoided. I also died to stuff that was caused by me totally forgetting stuff (I haven't played the game for like half a year after all), but yet, I managed to 1cc it on my first try with 3 lives left over. It felt nice.

Anyway good luck, biggest thing I can suggest is just don't force yourself to play if you aren't enjoying it anymore. Try something else.

Then give me a score.dat or something.

I've reached st5(finished everything before that) and everything from that on was pure cheese - I seriously don't want to spend an hour figuring out how to move so I don't get walled.

I feel that there is a fair amount of dodging. But honestly, pattern-solving is really a key in shooter games too IMO. I think it's how they gauge the skill level of the very best players even. Their playskill for us is way over our heads. They can do stuff that even if we know what they did, cannot replicate. But people who have spent over 10 years+ playing shooter games and only shooting games can somewhat comfortably accomplish any shooting game feat without really much difficulty once they know how. The rank of "best" I THINK is given to the people who "figure out" the attack patterns first.

I saw a video of Mushi Futari, one guy is fighting valiantly below getting shot to pieces every once in awhile, playing like you'd expect anybody to. Then another guy did much better, not simply because he was a better dodger, but because he knew the attack patterns, and would fly around Larsa's side at the top of the screen at key moments to lead the majority of her attacks away, that's one example I think.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 08:17:20 PM by Ghaleon »

Helix ⑨

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Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2009, 09:02:22 PM »
I'm sorry I forgot all about PoFV :) I 1ccd lunatic (Medicine EZmode LULZ) and cleared extra with Komachi and Shiki

LiteYear

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Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2009, 02:05:54 AM »
I would say play one or two games a day, and do it consistently (like 3-4 days a week).  If you just want to focus on stages, then one or two runs through each stage you want to practice per day.

Sodium

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Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2009, 03:19:01 AM »
Then give me a score.dat or something.

I've reached st5(finished everything before that) and everything from that on was pure cheese - I seriously don't want to spend an hour figuring out how to move so I don't get walled.
-_-

Oh, and practice more. That's about the best tip I can give.

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Re: How can I get better in Touhou?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2009, 05:23:24 AM »
StB is generally hit-or-miss. If you feel like you suck at it too much, just leave it alone and go to a different game. :V

Also, learn to stream efficiently. A whole lot of Touhou, even some spellcards, and STGs in general, is based on that. (or so I hear)

Umm, yeah, abuse practice mode. There are two general ways to do this. For the newer games, though, a neat thing I did one time was leave on SA for an entire day on Lunatic. So I'd occasionally go back between game overs and grind the stage I was on until I'm able to clear it with the default lives(3). Trust me, you'll learn that shit.

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