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Thread 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.0.html)
Thread 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4614.0.html)
Thread 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5049.0.html)
Thread 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.0.html)
Thread 5 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6744.0.html)
Thread 6 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.0.html)
Thread 7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9136.0.html)
Thread 8 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,11564.0.html)
Thread 9 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13990.0.html)
Thread 10 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15170.0.html)
Thread 11 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.0.html)
Thread 12 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16042.0.html)
Thread 13 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16978.0.html)
Thread 14 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17586.0.html)
Translation Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html)
English Wiki
LoT 1 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou)
LoT 2 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2)
MoonJapanese Wiki
LoT 1 (http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/)
LoT 2 (http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2)
LoT 1 Patches and other downloads
Ver 2.04 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/mzdgl54mxmi/thLabyrinth_ver2.04.zip)
Ver 2.06B patch (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC) Dead link. HALP.
Ver 3.01 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ahccqhixp7d1n9p/thLabyrinth_ver3.01.zip)
English Patch for Ver 3.01 (http://www.mediafire.com/?t1v567p5sced1zl)
Cheat Engine chart (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg356800.html#msg356800)
Cheat table for Special Disc on Win XP (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg377088.html#msg377088)
Suggested builds (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg589521.html#msg589521)
Offline database (http://www.mediafire.com/download/w5jig4q58hlmy3z/Labyrinth+DataBase.rar)
New Game+ file for version 3.01 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7188.0;attach=15055)
LoT 2, its Patches, and other downloads
The place to go to buy a legitimate copy of the game. (http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852) The instructions for how to navigate the site in order to buy it is here. (http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc)
Start game with all characters (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.msg1017162.html#msg1017162)
Ver 1.202 (http://firestorage.jp/download/0584ab67e6fae363810686ef8648a4c7e09e4c0a)
Ver 1.203 (http://firestorage.jp/download/7814f97d45779c2c977b514c0db479fae8e926d8)
Image packs
Squidtentacle's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j)
chripy's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/download/pc8dovp81cj8u8z/CharaGraph.rar)
Pandaology's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?pdk5l7dc8vy9z)
Enemy Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnlnx9stxxybinb/enemy_info%20v2.zip?dl=0)
Contains their Stats, Affinities, Ailment Resistances, EXP, Money, Drops, and Types
Spellcard Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujydvnmgj466eaq/spellcard_info.zip?dl=0)
4 text files for Characters, Commands, Enemies, and Subclass data in a zip file
Individual files for those who only don't want to download a zip file
Character (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lg29mv3r2b9ahrj/Spellcards_Character.txt?dl=0)
Commands (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5abxf9st849cnw8/Spellcards_Commands.txt?dl=0)
Enemies (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv8pi1hepbkh3v9/Spellcards_Enemy.txt?dl=0)
Subclasses (https://www.dropbox.com/s/z5g5llnwa34jb53/Spellcards_Subclasses.txt?dl=0)
Passive Skill Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jovqyauwx24odf/Labyrinth%20of%20Touhou%202%20Passive%20Skills.txt?dl=0)
Data on all the character's passive skills that affect damage formulas, stats, etc
Enemy AI Dump (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfpfenffpit76yr/lot2_enemy_ai_dump.txt?dl=0)
Developer's site: http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/ (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/)
Main page : http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm)
And thus it continues. Carry on.
Also, as an aside, I noticed that I started the last LoT2 thread almost precisely a year ago from this very day. Huh.
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Hi there. I have just beaten the final boss of the game (yay) and have some question:
-Where can I find the regeneration heart? It seems that I missed it. Also, how can I obtain the Ame no murakumo item? I suppose I will obtain every item of page 6 in the post-game content (and maybe the Murakumo), but I don't know were to find the regeneration heart.
-About FOEs, I have data of 11 of them. The only 1 I have seen and cannot beat is the one in 16F that heals itself for more than 170.000 each turn. Do I need to beat that one to unlock the achivement of register all 12 FOEs or is there another FOE which I cannot saw? Also, are those 12 FOEs the ones I need to eliminate to obtain the achivement of "There isn't a single FOE alive"? Well, not that 12 cause Yuugi doesnt appear again, so only 11.
-Lastly, I only have 10 stone of awakening. Did I miss 2 of them or are they in the post-game content?
Answering this from last thread! The FOE you haven't beaten, the 16F one, is both the one you need to beat to register all the FOEs, and the enemy that drops the Regenerator's Heart (100% chance, at least). For having all 12 at once, remember there's two Eight-Eyed Serpents. They both need to be dead, as well as the other ten FOEs.
The Murakumo item is the item that gets dropped by the upgraded final boss, which needs the extra bosses dead, and so on. It's basically the last thing you can get.
And the last couple Stones are in the Extra Areas, iirc. You didn't miss them.
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I would like to add a cheese strategy for Eiki boss battle on floor 13 that I just happened to find out on my first playthrough through sheer chance.
Have some characters debuffing Eiki's speed in the beginning of the fight. (I was just spamming Reisen's Discarder as per usual for most boss fights but other characters and Heavy probably works well too) Have Aya and Yuyuko out in the field with both buffed up heavily in speed. Once Eiki uses concentrate, have Yuyuko spam her first spellcard that reduces the ATB bar while having another character continuously debuffing Eiki's speed. With this method, Eiki's turn will essentially never come while Yuyuko can continuously regenerate enough mana to continue spamming her ability with the help of Aya's speed buffs and free turns. A third character can keep up with the debuffs and a fourth character that has enough stats to do damage versus Eiki's buffed up defenses during Concentrate should completely cheese the fight. (I was using a Sorceress Yuuka)
It was pretty funny how I discovered this and Eiki during Concentrate is probably one of the few exceptions in the game where Yuyuko can cheese a boss' ATB bar. I don't know if it works for any other bosses, and I don't think this is as broken as Diva.
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You don't need another character continuously debuffing Eiki's SPD since buffs / debuffs only decay when the character gets a turn. If you're using Yuyuko's ATB manipulation, Eiki never gets her turns so her SPD debuff never decays. Instead, I'd just slap in a character with Magician to share the MP around if this trick really works without excess investment. This seems too specific to how you've built your characters to be used universally.
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Could someone please include the LoT2 charagraph in the intro? Also other charagraph that I found like TPDP. It would be easier than linking the download link over and over.
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You don't need another character continuously debuffing Eiki's SPD since buffs / debuffs only decay when the character gets a turn. If you're using Yuyuko's ATB manipulation, Eiki never gets her turns so her SPD debuff never decays. Instead, I'd just slap in a character with Magician so share the MP around if this trick really works without excess investment. This seems too specific to how you've built your characters to be used universally.
Oh yeah, so I guess you actually don't need to have someone keep sticking speed debuffs.
I haven't used Magician much besides for the passives for some characters. But this trick barely needs any investment. I was keeping Yuyuko around for mob clearing with her death effects so I just slapped all level bonuses on Speed but was too lazy to take her out in my first test fight vs Eiki. Other than that, you have speed demon Aya, which is probably the best build for her anyway, anybody that can do damage vs Eiki's Concentration defenses and anybody that can debuff speed. It was pure luck how I found this cheese. My Yuuka was spamming Flower Shot while I was switching up my characters and getting ready for whatever hell on earth Eiki was about to unleash on me with her concentration, but I noticed my Yuuka attacked like 4 times and Eiki's turn never came. So I decided to try Yuyuko's ATB manipulation skill for the first time and see what happens.
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And i'm just sitting here, being stuck on 9F Tenshi .___.
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Answering this from last thread! The FOE you haven't beaten, the 16F one, is both the one you need to beat to register all the FOEs, and the enemy that drops the Regenerator's Heart (100% chance, at least). For having all 12 at once, remember there's two Eight-Eyed Serpents. They both need to be dead, as well as the other ten FOEs.
The Murakumo item is the item that gets dropped by the upgraded final boss, which needs the extra bosses dead, and so on. It's basically the last thing you can get.
And the last couple Stones are in the Extra Areas, iirc. You didn't miss them.
Thank you very much! I'll train a little before taking that FOE. I don't like regeneration bosses :(
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And i'm just sitting here, being stuck on 9F Tenshi .___.
If you post some information about your team and what are you trying we can help.
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If you post some information about your team and what are you trying we can help.
My current team is:
Mokou
Komachi
Reisen
Enchanter Keine
Minoriko
Kasen
Nitori
Hexer Hina
Satori
Parsee
Nazrin
Wriggle
Their levels are between 42 and 47.
I don't really know what else to write
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My current team is:
[...]
Their levels are between 42 and 47.
I don't really know what else to write
With that team I believe your best course of action would be loading up Komachi with nature resistant gear and fielding Intense Vertigo Reisen, Wriggle and Satori to poison her.
Keep her under Heavy, too. If you can subclass Kasen as a Monk that would also be great to help dealing damage.
Avoiding buffs makes it so she won't use Sword of Hisou. You can either avoid them altogether or make a strategy in which you have slot 1 tank always buffed and go crazy on the buffs to make it so she'll always target that tank and only use Sword.
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http://imgur.com/dewmAu5
I think there something wrong with your face, Marisa.
I will report more bugs as I come across them.
Edit: Sorry, I forgot to add that it's only the small and large face that does that.
Thanks for the report. It'll be some time before I can really get to fixing it, but when I do, I'll post an updated pack.
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With that team I believe your best course of action would be loading up Komachi with nature resistant gear and fielding Intense Vertigo Reisen, Wriggle and Satori to poison her.
Keep her under Heavy, too. If you can subclass Kasen as a Monk that would also be great to help dealing damage.
Avoiding buffs makes it so she won't use Sword of Hisou. You can either avoid them altogether or make a strategy in which you have slot 1 tank always buffed and go crazy on the buffs to make it so she'll always target that tank and only use Sword.
Thanks for the help, i'll do my best :3
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If you had chosen Kaguya instead of Mokou, I would've recommended inflicting Silence on Tenshi. I've tried it myself, and it actually made a huge difference when I tackled the fight with Calamity Four. Made Hina go from practically no damage to hitting 3k with every strike.
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Could someone please include the LoT2 charagraph in the intro? Also other charagraph that I found like TPDP. It would be easier than linking the download link over and over.
If I can be pointed to said links, I will be happy to add them in as soon as I'm not half-asleep.
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Might as well add the LoT1 updated English patch to the intro. It is around the middle of the page.
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16978.0.html
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To whoever said that LoT1 character roster was balanced, i disagree, i found the LoT 2 way more balanced skill wise
But Now that i think abit more about it, the two games dont change much in general (Nukers,Tankers,Buffers,Extra stuff) and LoT 2 just added more ways to be broken with the sub-class thing, meanwhile LoT1 was like disgaea, high damage numbers and broken equips everywhere with some bosses having a "Kill me or you die this turn"
Now, Whos the queen of broken, Nitori Or Byakuren? :V
Rinnosuke seriously needs his own subclass once you get the sword,like on those games where you get a ridicously strong weapon after beating the bonus boss, just for bragging rights
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To whoever said that LoT1 character roster was balanced, i disagree, i found the LoT 2 way more balanced skill wise
It would be nice if you explained your points instead of dismissing an entire page of discussion with a vague statement.
But Now that i think abit more about it, the two games dont change much in general (Nukers,Tankers,Buffers,Extra stuff) and LoT 2 just added more ways to be broken with the sub-class thing, meanwhile LoT1 was like disgaea, high damage numbers and broken equips everywhere with some bosses having a "Kill me or you die this turn"
LoT1's equips are nowhere nearly as important or "broken" as LoT2's due to how they work. The game also did not have numbers that huge before the plus disk, which we still don't have for LoT2, so you're comparing the games wrong.
Bosses in LoT2 also have damage rushes (Flandre's Laevatein, Mirror and Magatama becoming stronger on each turn taken, bosses that damage maximum HP), so that also is like LoT1.
LoT2 also has way bigger numbers when compared to boss HP. You need to be very overlevelled to be able to take out such large chunks of health in a single attack in LoT1 like you can in LoT2
In LoT1 every single character has its use. Some have very similar functions, let's take Patchouli, Mokou and Rin using their fire nukes for an example. Patchouli is slow, strong, very resilient against MND attacks but dies to anything physical and has damaging spells for different ocasions, Mokou is durable and regenerates SP at a fantastic rate, has damage debuffs, but generally outputs weaker damage and Rin fast, not so durable but not so frail, has some utility spells, but heavily dependent on a buffer capable of buffing both of her offenses at the same time to deal good damage.
Meanwhile in LoT2 we have VERY CLEAR best characters. There is no reason to carry buffers other than Byakuren, if not to get her buffs up faster and Nitori and Flandre are such strong damage dealers that almost everyone else seems obsolete, only Eiki can compete. I guess Parsee, too, if you want to depend on a terror infliction before pressing the win button. Aya just destroys the entire game with a single subclass skill. Hina debuffs and tanks and attacks if you want to. And that's it. No one compares to those.
In LoT1 if you opt to use the worse characters you'll end up with a game with about as much difficulty. In LoT2 using the top tiers utterly trivializes anything and everything.
Now, Whos the queen of broken, Nitori Or Byakuren? :V
At higher levels, Maintenance allows Nitori to tank and nuke at the same time. If nothing changes she may be able to trivialize the expansion by herself.
Edit: I mean, just look at this: https://youtu.be/0iwvD3uwIv4
disclaimer: This video is kind of a fraud because I was lazy with the levelling down and choosing equipments that would be available at that part. Damage wasn't thoroughly optimized, though (no stat gems, for example). So it should be enough to prove a point.
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In LoT1 every single character has its use. Some have very similar functions, let's take Patchouli, Mokou and Rin using their fire nukes for an example. Patchouli is slow, strong, very resilient against MND attacks but dies to anything physical and has damaging spells for different ocasions, Mokou is durable and regenerates SP at a fantastic rate, has damage debuffs, but generally outputs weaker damage and Rin fast, not so durable but not so frail, has some utility spells, but heavily dependent on a buffer capable of buffing both of her offenses at the same time to deal good damage.
Meanwhile in LoT2 we have VERY CLEAR best characters. There is no reason to carry buffers other than Byakuren, if not to get her buffs up faster and Nitori and Flandre are such strong damage dealers that almost everyone else seems obsolete, only Eiki can compete. I guess Parsee, too, if you want to depend on a terror infliction before pressing the win button. Aya just destroys the entire game with a single subclass skill. Hina debuffs and tanks and attacks if you want to. And that's it. No one compares to those.
In LoT1 if you opt to use the worse characters you'll end up with a game with about as much difficulty. In LoT2 using the top tiers utterly trivializes anything and everything.
There is a reason to carry buffers other than Byakuren, since post game bosses have been shown to be able to nullify buffs. Can't really make use of Byakurens buff transfer if she herself had her buffs nullified. Diva Aya is just a special kind of broken that I don't see how it could possibly be fixed short of making the Diva class useless.
I don't know why its a problem to have character power levels (1 to 10 as a scale to measure with) range from 7-10 in LoT2 versus LoT1's 4-10. I highly doubt you get about the same difficulty using the absolute worse characters in LoT1 versus the good characters. I can't be bothered to actually play through the game again though with the worse characters as the game is already ridiculously grindy enough as it is, and I'd likely have to grind more levels to make up for using bad characters.
I also don't remember any moment in LoT2 where it was just an instant wipe if you didn't meet a certain damage threshold. Actually I take that back, as I think the Mokou fight was like this. I can't remember the Flandre fight too well as I was overleveled when I went back to fight her. But the other examples you mentioned are lose conditions that slowly hit the player. It's not like most bosses in LoT1, where it was just an instant lose if you weren't careful about HP thresholds and counting your damages.
Edit: I think the Golden Orbs also had a party wipe move but I don't remember what causes it. In any case, I think I said this a few threads back but I feel that LoT2 is a lot more fair when it comes to entering a boss fight blind.
LoT1's equips are nowhere nearly as important or "broken" as LoT2's due to how they work. The game also did not have numbers that huge before the plus disk, which we still don't have for LoT2, so you're comparing the games wrong.
Oh and this statement works both ways as I'm fairly certain LoT1 characters got nerfed when Plus Disk and Special Disk came out. So the whole, "LoT1 characters' power levels aren't as varied as LoT2 power levels" point is kind of moot now that I think about it.
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There is a reason to carry buffers other than Byakuren, since post game bosses have been shown to be able to nullify buffs. Can't really make use of Byakurens buff transfer if she herself had her buffs nullified.
What part of "other than to get her buffs up faster" did you not read?
I don't know why its a problem to have character power levels (1 to 10 as a scale to measure with) range from 7-10 in LoT2 versus LoT1's 4-10. I highly doubt you get about the same difficulty using the absolute worse characters in LoT1 versus the good characters. I can't be bothered to actually play through the game again though with the worse characters as the game is already ridiculously grindy enough as it is, and I'd likely have to grind more levels to make up for using bad characters.
It's very much a problem and your scales aren't fair. No character trivializes the game in LoT1. Everyone has some sort of weakness and that weakness is relevant to a point (full ATK Nitori requires switcher support to hit and run, for example). The best characters do not trivialize the game by existing. In LoT2 they do.
LoT1's 10 is a lot lower than LoT2's. And LoT1's worst characters aren't that down below the best ones. Like I said before, LoT1 tiers go from C+ to A+ and LoT2's go from B to S. That meaning everybody is decently viable in LoT1 and the best characters are still "fair". S tier is "obviously better than the rest, there are very few reasons to choose anybody else". So if we would go from your number grades it would be something like 5-8 for LoT1 and 6-11 for LoT2. Out of 10.
The game isn't really grindy if you play it well and I've used many party compositions with worse characters and never had to grind more than for stronger teams. The only points in which I think significant grinding is required are: Rinnosuke, Maribel, Agastobrauma and 30F. Before Rinnosuke no grind is required at all, unless your team is purposely bad (and by that I don't mean having weaker characters. I mean actually dumb things like not having any bulky characters or healers).
I also don't remember any moment in LoT2 where it was just an instant wipe if you didn't meet a certain damage threshold. Actually I take that back, as I think the Mokou fight was like this. I can't remember the Flandre fight too well as I was overleveled when I went back to fight her. But the other examples you mentioned are lose conditions that slowly hit the player. It's not like most bosses in LoT1, where it was just an instant lose if you weren't careful about HP thresholds and counting your damages.
Edit: I think the Golden Orbs also had a party wipe move but I don't remember what causes it. In any case, I think I said this a few threads back but I feel that LoT2 is a lot more fair when it comes to entering a boss fight blind.
Doesn't change the fact those are damage races and that's what those bosses in LoT1 essentially are.
Oh and this statement works both ways as I'm fairly certain LoT1 characters got nerfed when Plus Disk and Special Disk came out. So the whole, "LoT1 characters' power levels aren't as varied as LoT2 power levels" point is kind of moot now that I think about it.
As far as I'm aware the only formula that got changed was Nitori's gun (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Miscellaneous). And that one was a humongous buff. So what are you talking about?
Edit: used a tome of reincarnation and redid the fight under hard mode conditions. A lot went wrong but I was still able to cheese it.
https://youtu.be/lfsXtd_syt8
And now in the first phase: https://youtu.be/98xKCBTEAaE
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Rinnosuke seriously needs his own subclass once you get the sword,like on those games where you get a ridicously strong weapon after beating the bonus boss, just for bragging rights
Personally, I would prefer that he would be given the ability to use more than one subclass, as well as gain more skill points from the Training Manuals. I mean, said items are limited in number, so if you are using them for him, it would help him tremendously, given that his stat boosting abilities are so expensive in the first place. My thought is that he could receive three points per TM(Training Manual) instead of one, and that he could only use a second subclass after obtaining a key item.
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It would be nice if you explained your points instead of dismissing an entire page of discussion with a vague statement.
Its this annoying feeling on the back of my head that makes me sure LoT2 is more balanced than LoT1
Here are some examples I THINK could convince people,Compared LoT 1 cirno or wriggle to LoT 2, Wriggle is the goddess of poison damage and cirno now can do more than *Pray for a PAR*
I believe this is mostly because now niche characters get buffs when they are paired with other niche characters (Team nineball for example) LoT1 was mostly a high numbers race, meanwhile LoT2 required some degree of planning (Hello great "C")
OR i am just biased because i used utsuho on both games and everyone keeps saying she is horrible :ohdear:
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Its this annoying feeling on the back of my head that makes me sure LoT2 is more balanced than LoT1
Here are some examples I THINK could convince people,Compared LoT 1 cirno or wriggle to LoT 2, Wriggle is the goddess of poison damage and cirno now can do more than *Pray for a PAR*
Oh, on those terms I absolutely agree with you. The worse characters do indeed benefit of the new things and are in general better, yes.
The reason people usually agree on LoT2 being less balanced is that the power gap between low and high tiers is larger. And that gap is sometimes incoherent with what the enemies can do. And that's what imbalance is.
Now about those two in LoT1: they are actually a lot better than you're describing, but if you don't invest their level ups properly they will suck.
Wriggle is very capable of being your main tank for the entire game. You gotta invest almost all o her level ups in DEF (something like 50/50 DEF/MND until lv 50 and then full DEF) for her to work, but what you get in return is a tank with great ailment resists and good damage potential (poison does drop in damage in the late post game, but it still pulls out good numbers for a tank). She's kind of awkward to use in the very early game due to her elemental resists and she won't be able to handle stuff like Yuugi without a buff but she's definitely a capable unit.
Cirno is also a character who actually surprised me when I used her for real. You gotta invest full attack and have a way to buff both of her offenses to be able to output decent damage, but the added effects of her moves are pretty good. She's also surprisingly durable. Her defenses are low but her high level up rate, decent HP growth and cheap library HP levels make her hard to fall in one hit as you'd expect her to. She does fall of kind of hard somewhere in the post game, but she's still very much usable.
I bet you'd pleasantly surprised if you actually made a team that would take advantage of their strengths.
I believe this is mostly because now niche characters get buffs when they are paired with other niche characters (Team nineball for example) LoT1 was mostly a high numbers race, meanwhile LoT2 required some degree of planning (Hello great "C")
OR i am just biased because i used utsuho on both games and everyone keeps saying she is horrible :ohdear:
I frankly believe I've never had to prepare for anything in LoT2 as much as I had for LoT1 bosses. They do have some specific stuff but, more often than not, it was just a matter of swapping level up bonuses from DEF to MND and vice versa. Meanwhile in LoT1 I had to take out everyone's equips and specialize them for a boss fight more than once. There are quite a few bosses that made me think about turn order optimization and things like that. In LoT2 the only battle I can actually remember having trouble with was doing the three orbs blind. Great "C" was just a matter of only using AoE, that's not really what I would call planning.
I think one big problem is that people usually consider LoT1 a grindy game and just grind their way out of any difficulty, while in LoT2 you have the challenge levels to mock you for doing that. But you seriously don't have to grind at all in LoT1 until the very end of the main game. And if you do progress through the extra floors like you're allowed to instead of waiting and grinding, you don't need to grind much for the post game, too. Until the very end, that is.
I mean, I love LoT2 a lot. But there is just so much dumb broken stuff in that game. It's sad that you have to jump through hoops to not break the game.
Also: please do tell about your experiences with Utsuho. I love to hear about this kind of stuff. I used her a lot in LoT2 and she's pretty fun, even if her stuff is underwhelming.
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Actually, while many characters in lot1 had a desperation mode where you are meant to kill them before their next turn, the game was very much not a high numbers race. People constantly mistake that lot1 favors glass cannon builds but it really doesn't. For the most part, you can beat bosses at lower levels from what I've seen (and I've seen alot) by having defensive builds over offensive ones actually. Bosses that have desperation nukes are still manageable with a defense oriented party because you can prepare for that phase much better with high sp on your best nukes, buff/debuff management. It's harder to prepare those things at 100% if your party is full of squishies, but if it's not you can really take your time setting that phase up.
The only bosses that are really noticeably harder with a defensive party IMO are Yukari and baal avatar, since they are CONSISTENTLY dangerous and need killing more than being careful for more than half their healthpool
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3peso is still working on the expansion apparently, he made a couple twitter posts a couple weeks back saying how he was planning on staying off twitter while focusing on the game or something. So it's not completely dead. Probably.
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I don't know where to post this, so I'll just post it here. A friend's having a lot of trouble running both LoT1 and LoT2. He describes it as "the game playing for a bit, then the music warps and then it completely freezes". I don't know a potential fix or where the issue could be lying, and neither does he.
Here's his specs if required:
Processor: Intel i7-4710HQ CPU @ 2.5GHz
RAM: 16GB
System Type: 64bits
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M
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I don't know where to post this, so I'll just post it here. A friend's having a lot of trouble running both LoT1 and LoT2. He describes it as "the game playing for a bit, then the music warps and then it completely freezes". I don't know a potential fix or where the issue could be lying, and neither does he.
I have no idea of what it could be, but: is he using Windows 8 or Windows 10 which hates everything? Tried updating graphics and/or audio drivers? Tried Japanese locale just in case? DirectX, too, might be an issue. I don't know if LoT would crash because of that but try making sure DirectX 9 is installed.
Actually, while many characters in lot1 had a desperation mode where you are meant to kill them before their next turn, the game was very much not a high numbers race. People constantly mistake that lot1 favors glass cannon builds but it really doesn't. For the most part, you can beat bosses at lower levels from what I've seen (and I've seen alot) by having defensive builds over offensive ones actually. Bosses that have desperation nukes are still manageable with a defense oriented party because you can prepare for that phase much better with high sp on your best nukes, buff/debuff management. It's harder to prepare those things at 100% if your party is full of squishies, but if it's not you can really take your time setting that phase up.
The only bosses that are really noticeably harder with a defensive party IMO are Yukari and baal avatar, since they are CONSISTENTLY dangerous and need killing more than being careful for more than half their healthpool
Rinnosuke too, but only to some extent. If you don't have the means to take out his forms quickly that battle is a lot worse. But being careful is still very important.
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I have no idea of what it could be, but: is he using Windows 8 or Windows 10 which hates everything? Tried updating graphics and/or audio drivers? Tried Japanese locale just in case? DirectX, too, might be an issue. I don't know if LoT would crash because of that but try making sure DirectX 9 is installed.
He has Windows 8, all of his drivers are up to date, and he's tried japanese locale the whole time. I'll tell him about DirectX, I guess.
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Actually Rinnosuke is absolute cake with a defensive party excluding the first phase only. MAYBE the last phase can be a problem if it's your first time playing and you don't know it's coming but never had any issues with it.
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Actually Rinnosuke is absolute cake with a defensive party excluding the first phase only. MAYBE the last phase can be a problem if it's your first time playing and you don't know it's coming but never had any issues with it.
The first phase is exactly why I said that. TP removal and high damage is pretty harsh. And being able to take the elemental forms down quickly makes them even less of an issue.
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It's harder to prepare those things at 100% if your party is full of squishies, but if it's not you can really take your time setting that phase up.
What exactly do you mean by a defensive party? I know you're using a hyperbole, but obviously no one really thinks a team full of nukers is going to get them through the game. If there were ever people that actually thought that, they'd learn very quickly that its not possible.
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I have no idea of what it could be, but: is he using Windows 8 or Windows 10 which hates everything? Tried updating graphics and/or audio drivers? Tried Japanese locale just in case? DirectX, too, might be an issue. I don't know if LoT would crash because of that but try making sure DirectX 9 is installed.He has Windows 8, all of his drivers are up to date, and he's tried japanese locale the whole time. I'll tell him about DirectX, I guess.
Updating DirectX didn't seem to really change anything, so we're both at a loss.
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What exactly do you mean by a defensive party? I know you're using a hyperbole, but obviously no one really thinks a team full of nukers is going to get them through the game. If there were ever people that actually thought that, they'd learn very quickly that its not possible.
By defensive party, I just mean one with more characters that are known for 'being able to take hits', than those who are 'squishy'....and actually, most people have expressed over the years that glass cannon oriented parties are better. I'm not talking about 100% glass cannons without a single tank. But lots of people seem to think you only need like 2 tanks and the rest glass cannons...and by only need, I mean they think that's the flat out superior party makeup.
So they'll have a party with an inordinate amount of squishy nukers like chen, and nitori (she's not especially squishy but she's not really 'can take hits'y either in lot1), and aya, and kaggy, and yuugi (obviously tanky on physical bosses, but the vast majority of bosses have decent aoe magic nukes, or random target magic nukes), etc.
They also have little appreciation for damage dealers who have higher staying power like remilia, eiki, I wanna say kanako but she really is bad at dealing damage lol...not too many come to think of it, I kinda put patchy in here too. She's kinda like yuugi but there are far less bosses who can abuse aoe physical nukes than those with magic, so patchy CAN be pretty stable in the back against bosses unelss they have needle parade or arrow rain.
It's not just about which character though... most people also think that you should just always pick mag/atk for level up bonuses on anyone that isn't a tank or support. They would NEVER make a mnd build patchy, or a def build remilia, etc...they think they can't do damage if you do that..but they certainly can, and the benefits are actually really good. For example, a mnd build patchy will take 0 magic damage from virtually everything (even kedamageddon's ultimate nuke if you put necronomicon on her too... Ia ctually beat it by having patchy SOLO it and take 0s all the time), and because silent selene has good mnd piercing, her damage does't get neutered THAT much against bosses with reasonable mnd defense. Similarly, a mnd build eiki is good because her nuke pierces completely, it will not do that much less damage, but she'll become quite tanky.
Even kaggy makes a good mnd build I think because buddha's stone bowl is potentially just as damaging as her spirit nuke, moreso even if used on someone like nitori or suwako against yukari or whatever, and it doesn't benefit from mag at all. So mnd kaggy can ALMOST be as tanky as patchy against non-physical bosses (btw you may think most bosses can snipe the back with a physical nuke like slash or regular attack, they can, but even patchy can take a hit like that due to back row mitigation. 'snipe', and the odd back target 'double slash/steel slasher' are really the only attacks I can really think of that will waste em, but those are rare as fuu (well back targeting slashes I mean).
Not really sure how that's hyperbole though.
Heck, I also see people express how useless they think ran's defensive buff is compared to her offensive one. I think they are both great. With her defensive one, it allows you to have a character out with a defense buff. But without it, if you rely on reimu or yukari or someone, you have to go thru the trouble of making sure they get just before reimu can buff, and that she can go before the boss can nuke, which can delay you a few rounds fairly often if you want to play it safe.
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By defensive party, I just mean one with more characters that are known for 'being able to take hits', than those who are 'squishy'....and actually, most people have expressed over the years that glass cannon oriented parties are better. I'm not talking about 100% glass cannons without a single tank. But lots of people seem to think you only need like 2 tanks and the rest glass cannons...and by only need, I mean they think that's the flat out superior party makeup.
[...]
This, this so much.
Adding to your examples of Remilia and Patchouli, I love how these two characters play if built defensively:
DEF Yuugi is incredible until the late main game if you can overload her with elemental affinity equipment to make up for her low MND. I suppose her utility as a general tank who can go out even against magic will fall greatly in the post game, but Irremovable Shackles having a decently low delay works well for a tank and both Supernatural Phenomenon and Knock out in Three Steps having great defense piercing makes it so she can invest a lot in defense and still deal a lot of damage.
MND Kaguya is by far her best build. Buddha's Stone Bowl gives the turn to a good nuker, keeps their buffs refreshed and gives her a post act gauge of 50%, it's incredible! It's ridiculously better than Hourai Barrage. And Hourai Barrage ignoring defenses makes it so the MND focused build does not hinder her much when defense piercing is necessary.
And two characters that greatly surprised me in durability and usefulness when I actually used them seriously:
Full MAG Eirin with balanced/defensive equipment (Getitup V, Power Dragon Scalemail, Gold Cloth, Great Question's Mask etc) allows her to tank so much (she safely went to the first slot too many times), deal damage and heal when necessary. Her incredible bases makes it so she makes great use of those strong equipments and they make up for her slow levelling rate.
Full ATK Sakuya actually starts dealing decent damage unbuffed somewhere in the post game(!!) On top of that, if you give her balanced offensive/defensive equipment she is incredibly durable and can do some pretty awesome things with The World for turn manipulation if that kind of specialization is necessary.
You say Kanako is not very good at dealing damage, but CLD is actually a very good element at the time she's recruited. She's not as impressive as one could expect but I definitely think she's a worthy party member.
I'm actually uploading a playthrough in which I decided to use every single character in the game at least once and I use quite a few of those things. I'm already in the post game but, because I was uploading EO2U videos when I started playing, the playthrough is still at Disgusting Malice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS36XUamnoc). I guess I'll post here when something interesting happens.
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The hyperbole was me reading too much into this:
It's harder to prepare those things at 100% if your party is full of squishies, but if it's not you can really take your time setting that phase up.
And you clarified that you didn't actually mean a full party of squishies with this, which kind of confirms it was a hyperbole.
By defensive party, I just mean one with more characters that are known for 'being able to take hits', than those who are 'squishy'....and actually, most people have expressed over the years that glass cannon oriented parties are better. I'm not talking about 100% glass cannons without a single tank. But lots of people seem to think you only need like 2 tanks and the rest glass cannons...and by only need, I mean they think that's the flat out superior party makeup.
In any case, at least I now understand what you meant.
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I admit my party configuration is kinda like that on both games, 2-3 tanks, 1-2 supporters (Even better if they are also the tanks) and the rest are nukers, if the tankers SOMEHOW die, all goes downhill (Hello rasetsu fists)
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Yeah I actually never really tried elemental resistance oriented tank strategies... I should next time.
As for Kanako, I realize her suiga has a good formula for cold but I just felt like it still didn't have power that really made up for how slow she is and how expensive the spell is.. one destroy magic or djinn storm or whatever and she's pretty useless for some time.
I actually think it's strange how people don't really like Marisa. I think most people try to use master spark at 100% mp-bonus efficiency all the time or whatever. But I find it pretty good if you just keep her mag up using concentrate and then use it. don't worry about 100% either, 60+ is fine. She's fast and you can really pump out sparks quite often if you don't worry about getting full mp for it. It's almost like she's a dpser in a secret 5th 'hidden' slot if you play her like that IMO... not to mention asteroid belt is a really effing good trash cleaner, aoe, good damage, and pierces defenses really well to the point that it's one of few moves that can damage stuff like helbeldr or whatever they're called at normal levels.
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Full MAG Eirin with balanced/defensive equipment (Getitup V, Power Dragon Scalemail, Gold Cloth, Great Question's Mask etc) allows her to tank so much (she safely went to the first slot too many times), deal damage and heal when necessary. Her incredible bases makes it so she makes great use of those strong equipments and they make up for her slow levelling rate.
Defensively Built Eirin couldn't take a hit worth crap for me, how do you manage to tank with a full MAG Eirin?
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Defensively Built Eirin couldn't take a hit worth crap for me, how do you manage to tank with a full MAG Eirin?
what? Eirin has some of the best overall defenses in the game...not that I like her. Despite my appreciation for defense-oriented parties... Eirin's spellcard formulas are really quite incapable of contributing much if you build her for defense (and arguably offense IMO).
Are you talking about LoT1 here? Did you forget to level up her skillpoints?
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As for Kanako, I realize her suiga has a good formula for cold but I just felt like it still didn't have power that really made up for how slow she is and how expensive the spell is.. one destroy magic or djinn storm or whatever and she's pretty useless for some time.
Ahh, yeah. That makes sense. She's great if you speed manipulate her to go with Kaguya or have Aya, though. (I largely find trying to buff your entire team's speed inefficient. But Aya's single target speed buff focused in a single person is pretty good to reduce post action delays.)
I actually think it's strange how people don't really like Marisa. I think most people try to use master spark at 100% mp-bonus efficiency all the time or whatever. But I find it pretty good if you just keep her mag up using concentrate and then use it. don't worry about 100% either, 60+ is fine. She's fast and you can really pump out sparks quite often if you don't worry about getting full mp for it. It's almost like she's a dpser in a secret 5th 'hidden' slot if you play her like that IMO... not to mention asteroid belt is a really effing good trash cleaner, aoe, good damage, and pierces defenses really well to the point that it's one of few moves that can damage stuff like helbeldr or whatever they're called at normal levels.
The problem is that people don't realize that minimum is the most efficient. The thing has a 700 MAG multiplier and then each 10 SP becomes 1%. Using a 320 SP Master Spark gives you a 16% damage multiplier, so you'll deal 1.16x damage. Using two 160 Master Sparks gives you 2x the damage!
If the MP conversion was into MAG multiplier and it had absurd damage multipliers, then it would be more worth it to wait. But as it is, you just load her up with decent SP recovery and "spam" it.
I still don't like her lol.
Defensively Built Eirin couldn't take a hit worth crap for me, how do you manage to tank with a full MAG Eirin?
what? Eirin has some of the best overall defenses in the game...not that I like her. Despite my appreciation for defense-oriented parties... Eirin's spellcard formulas are really quite incapable of contributing much if you build her for defense (and arguably offense IMO).
Are you talking about LoT1 here? Did you forget to level up her skillpoints?
She has incredible defense (and general stat) growths, but her level up rate is pretty bad. You gotta give her your best equipment and have her always properly library levelled if you want to see her being good.
And yeah, her spellcards won't be dealing nuke-tier damage even with a full MAG build, but what impressed me was how flexible she was. She's very bulky and can stay out against pretty much anything, Hourai Elixir overheals allow her to tank stuff she wouldn't be able to, if the team needs that, Galaxy in a Pot has a decent delay, which tanks always appreciate, her two elemental spellcards can deal good damage if they hit a weakness or inflict very good offensive debuffs, Astronomical Entombing has very few times in which it shines, but when it does she does pull out some really good damage.
The thing is that you can get away with the full MAG build and still be an off (and incredibly often main) tank. If you build her defensively, her damage will be very bad instead of passable and her only use will be Hourai Elixir. Which is not too bad but is not great, either. Mostly because of the post action gauge. It's a situational spell with very good applications (for example I used it on an incoming Rumia after Rinnosuke's initial attack so that she could survive his second one before having her defenses buffed). But it's better off not being her main thing.
And yeah, how the hell was your defensive Eirin not able to tank? For example mine had 12k HP and 7.3k, 8k defenses against the last boss just from equipments and level up bonuses at 55. For comparison, full MND Kaguya had 12k MND also at library 55.
During this playthrough my opinion of her went from thinking she was incredibly underwhelming to one of the best characters in the game.
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I don't know. LoT1 in general is a lot more confusing to me than the second game, honestly. I'm still stuck on 18F because of how fast the enemy teams wipe me and how long it takes for me to kill them, it's insane.
I don't wanna sound silly, but... can anyone tell me a party configuration that is good for that floor? Mine doesn't seem to cut it because a lot of attacks either one/two shot me and I need like 6 different attacks to kill a single enemy.
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I don't know. LoT1 in general is a lot more confusing to me than the second game, honestly. I'm still stuck on 18F because of how fast the enemy teams wipe me and how long it takes for me to kill them, it's insane.
I don't wanna sound silly, but... can anyone tell me a party configuration that is good for that floor? Mine doesn't seem to cut it because a lot of attacks either one/two shot me and I need like 6 different attacks to kill a single enemy.
18F is kind of hell. The best solution for that floor, in my opinion, is to get a fast character capable of running away from the most dangerous battles and nuking the rest as efficiently as you can. The next floors battles are by far easier and you can make up for any lost exp in the 20F.
I think 17F is more exp/skill point efficient if you have to grind for Rinnosuke, too? I'm not sure about that part, though.
What is your team, by the way?
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Actually I never felt 18f trash is especially nasty except those shub nugguruths or whatever they are called.
17f trash on the other hand is brutal if your team lacks a good aoe physical nuke... Aoe not row. You are safe if you have mystia, aya, kanako, etc. But if you dont have someone who can aoe those crystals dead fast, eeep.
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Its funny how renko went from "Best character in the game" on LoT1 to almost useless on Lot2, that galaxy stop PAR was too good to be true
Now for the second topic,In all my time i got watching all the threads, has anybody like seriously....used eirin at all? I have never seen her mentioned on a serious run or anything
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Its funny how renko went from "Best character in the game" on LoT1 to almost useless on Lot2, that galaxy stop PAR was too good to be true
Now for the second topic,In all my time i got watching all the threads, has anybody like seriously....used eirin at all? I have never seen her mentioned on a serious run or anything
I am! And she's fantastic! Like I said a few posts ago, she has: almost tank-like bulk with a full MAG investment and the best defensive/balanced equipment you can give her; Galaxy in a Pot for a relatively fast all around decent (emphasis on decent, not high) damage spellcard; Mercury Sea and Omoikane's Device for useful debuffs and situational good damage; Hourai Elixir for emergency heals and situational but incredibly useful overheal applications; Astronomical Entombing for huge damage in the rare cases a boss is weak to SPR or when a strong AoE is needed (also fantastic to spam in random encounters later on when she has SP to back it up).
I put her in the team after right after she joined, not really expecting much, and then I never even thought about taking her out. She requires some commitment in gearing her up excellently, but the investment is worth it.
And I'm recording the boss battles, so you'll be able to see her in action. I'm putting up one video a day, so it shouldn't take too long for her to appear. Today was Rumia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxpB6ZatATk).
And Renko didn't lose her best move: Charge! It's funny how everyone seems to be afraid of using the blatantly best buff in the game and I use it so much I have trouble using her other two moves.
This is what my team is looking like in the 29th floor, by the way: http://puu.sh/lku8X/1e4d88a2e6.jpg
Really loving every each one of these characters. I never had any trouble with bosses in this playthrough (which is surprising because I purposely took some characters I thought to be underwhelming and quickly dumped favorites like Reimu, Meiling etc).
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Charge isn't that hot a spell to me because the offensive buff portion of it is mostly wasted on renko herself and your tank (unless renko herself is your tank, which.. can work for short periods I rekon but having her in slot one when everyone's action bar gets cut from the charge I'd feel nervous about). And the defensive portion of it... well. I already said I like playing defensively, so I kinda have defense buffs up on nearly everyone all the effing time anyway.
As for Eirin, I have 'played with her' but not a full game. In my first playthru I used her for awhile, and then I tried her again in another playthru from like floor 1-8 or so but quit then cuz I got bored with the team at that point...I think it also had a catastrophic weakness where I only realized that I only had one physical nuke. I have a thing now where I don't switch out which 12 I use from start to finish, I dunno, I just like it that way.
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Charge isn't that hot a spell to me because the offensive buff portion of it is mostly wasted on renko herself and your tank (unless renko herself is your tank, which.. can work for short periods I rekon but having her in slot one when everyone's action bar gets cut from the charge I'd feel nervous about). And the defensive portion of it... well. I already said I like playing defensively, so I kinda have defense buffs up on nearly everyone all the effing time anyway.
Charge is cool because it's basically a "spammable" World Shaking Military Rule. The problem with that line of thought is that you're considering the spell parts individually. You never really waste an offensive buff on a tank when you're also buffing their defense at the same time
Say I begin a battle with Wriggle, Renko, Kanako and Rumia on the field. I have their speeds set in a way Renko goes last. Everyone does their thing and Renko uses Charge. Wriggle now has defense buffs, Renko now has defense buffs, Kanako has offense and defense buffs and Rumia has offense and defense buffs. It's like used 1.5 Hakurei Borders and two Thunderclouds Sticklebacks for the price of ~4k HP each and about 1/4 of their active gauges.
I can safely switch people around and I'm sure I can get them into a good position in a single casting.
Of course the buff will seem underwhelming if you have Reimu/Yukari/Ran throwing defensive buffs all around. But their buffs are less efficient than just letting Renko take care of everything.
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Its funny how renko went from "Best character in the game" on LoT1 to almost useless on Lot2, that galaxy stop PAR was too good to be true
Renko's an awesome tank.
-Decent defense, mind and HP growth. Her defenses aren't as good as the dedicated tank characters, but her quick level up rate helps to counteract that disadvantage.
-Very good speed, combined with Charge buffs, means that she'll get lots of turns.
-Great status resistances. Affinities aren't amazing, but both the first point and this one doesn't matter too much, since she has...
-The ever-broken Maintenance. And unlike Nitori, she has 0 attacking potential, so she can focus entirely on defenses, affinities and speed, which will make them far better than most other characters can dream of.
-Easygoing and a Nosferatu Tome essentially gives her an extra move that recovers 44% HP and 4 MP, and leaves the gauge at 5000, (more with Guardian subclass).
-Probably the only legitimate evasion tank if you wish to build her that way. The best layout (excluding Micron's Magic Book for a Reflex Boost Augment) gives her +224 EVA without counting EVA boost from skills, and still gives +196% HP - plenty of leeway to take a hit or two with her naturally decent defenses.
-Sealing Club is one of the better synergy skills, and one of the easiest to keep going too.
-Her status resistance increasing skills work even better when she's expected to be at the front at all times.
-Charge is still pretty strong, and the HP drain (and buffing) can be supplemented with Enhancer subclass if you wish.
I've had her as my main tank in my current LoT2 party, and I can safely say she's easily the most reliable tank I've ever used. (Tenshi, Byakuren, Komachi, even LoT1 Meiling) She's never died before anyone else, never needs to be healed by other characters, and never gets hit by status ailments. Essentially, she sits on the front row, takes perfect care of herself while eating hits, superbuffs allies or superdebuffs enemies or switches when she doesn't need to heal herself (which is most of the time) and lets the rest of the team do whatever they want.
About her only weaknesses are that she can't really tank until she gets Maintenance and, to a lesser extent, Easygoing; and she isn't a good switcher for glass cannons, since she tends to outspeed them.
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Its funny how renko went from "Best character in the game" on LoT1 to almost useless on Lot2, that galaxy stop PAR was too good to be true
Now for the second topic,In all my time i got watching all the threads, has anybody like seriously....used eirin at all? I have never seen her mentioned on a serious run or anything
I have to whole heartedly completely disagree with that. Renko losing Debilitation hurts but Charge is amazing now. She's not my main tank but she certainly could be if I wanted her to. I have all her level up bonuses on SPD and with Maintenance, has the defensive stats of my tanks. She's there to get Byakuren's Duplicating Chant going and save my ass when bosses nullify buffs.
I've used Eirin in LoT2 as my main tank and it works great. I love how she can try to debuff the enemies' offenses when her turns aren't needed for switching.
About her only weaknesses are that she can't really tank until she gets Maintenance and, to a lesser extent, Easygoing; and she isn't a good switcher for glass cannons, since she tends to outspeed them.
Not really a problem since by the time you get her, you already have to levels to put skill points into those skills. I guess its a problem if you do new game+ but I would think that maintenance makes her passable as an offtank early on.
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Renko's Charge in LoT1 has to be used in a right situation to be effective or you will risk getting game over. Charge halves the front liners' timebar and damage them equal to Renko's 50% MAG. Even though her MAG is meh, the damage is enough to be a make or break in the fight. Since Renko's MAG is also boosted by Charge, the recoil damage is even more dangerous if you use it more than once. I think it is only good for opener but not so much in the middle of the battle (unless it is a damage race, that is)
In LoT2, Charge deal a recoil damage in percentage instead, making it much less dangerous. It also doesn't mess with your timebar so you can have someone switch Renko in and out immediately for another Charge. Galaxy Stop is less useful in this game as it doesn't debuff Speed, takes 20% of your timebar each time it is used and It also doesn't pierce Mind anymore.
I think the best way to build Renko is giving HP in Level Bonuses, relevant stats in Library, making her a Transcendant subclass, giving her 3 Grand Master Breaker Title and behold! The nigh-invulnerable tank with insanely high resistances/evasion/speed.
Anyhow, currently, I am doing a half-synergy run with some unorthodox building like:
ATK Sakuya
ATK Meiling
Tank Remilia
MAG Iku
ATK Tenshi
MAG Suwako
Other characters are Patchouli, Kanako, Sanae, Yuyuko, Suika and Nitori.
Currently on 11F and I have already appreciate some of them. I will conclude the result once I complete 20F.
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Not really a problem since by the time you get her, you already have to levels to put skill points into those skills. I guess its a problem if you do new game+ but I would think that maintenance makes her passable as an offtank early on.
Yeah, I was referring to using Renko in a New Game+. From that perspective, Renko's role is pure backlines support until she gets Maintenance, which is when she takes hits very well but still requires healing support. Once she gets Easygoing is when she starts becoming self-sufficient. She only gets better at it as you get better equipment, to the point where she essentially plays a support role in slot 1, with the occasional Concentrate for self-healing.
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18F is kind of hell. The best solution for that floor, in my opinion, is to get a fast character capable of running away from the most dangerous battles and nuking the rest as efficiently as you can. The next floors battles are by far easier and you can make up for any lost exp in the 20F.
I think 17F is more exp/skill point efficient if you have to grind for Rinnosuke, too? I'm not sure about that part, though.
What is your team, by the way?
Meiling, Ran, Reimu, Chen, Cirno, Orin (was thinking about taking her out, she definitely isnt performing too hot), Nitori, Patchy, Yuyuko, Kaguya, Flan and Suika.
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I just reached 12F and fought the mirror. Patchy knocked out half of its HP (40k per hit) with maxed buffs + Grand Incantation + Princess Undine. I repeat this 3 times and won. :]
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Renko's Charge in LoT1 has to be used in a right situation to be effective or you will risk getting game over. Charge halves the front liners' timebar and damage them equal to Renko's 50% MAG. Even though her MAG is meh, the damage is enough to be a make or break in the fight. Since Renko's MAG is also boosted by Charge, the recoil damage is even more dangerous if you use it more than once. I think it is only good for opener but not so much in the middle of the battle (unless it is a damage race, that is)
I am very serious when I say Charge is blatantly the best buff in the game and that it's "spammable". +80% MAG Charge will only deal about less than 1/4 of your characters' HP, unless you have somebody with really low HP in the receiving end. Not a big deal at all. The ATB halving part is mitigated by defensive buff.
Sure there are some limitations as to what kind of team can use it in the middle of the battle efficiently, but they are not that strict. As long as the front line is somewhat bulky and well healed, if they are prepared to take damage from the boss they can take damage from charge. Using Rumia as your healer is another important thing, I believe. Reimu's heal is cool and all but the 30% post action gauge makes an enormous difference (and Charge keeps it stronger). Sanae is a good partner for a Renko when you wanna keep a specific person at +100% everything so you don't need to recast Charges for a single buff. Rotating your people to make sure you charge as many as you can is also a good idea.
You have to be careful about when you use it but it's not at all a thing that you have to be afraid of using liberally and doesn't really lead to game overs unless you make very bad mistakes.
Have an example: https://youtu.be/h_qr91iYM8I
The fight wouldn't have been as close if Renko didn't have her SP destroyed and could cast more Charges to prepare for the end.
Meiling, Ran, Reimu, Chen, Cirno, Orin (was thinking about taking her out, she definitely isnt performing too hot), Nitori, Patchy, Yuyuko, Kaguya, Flan and Suika.
That's kind of a lot on Ran's hand in that composition. Are you properly investing library levels in Orin's MAG? I think your team would benefit more from losing Chen, Nitori or Flandre than Orin. And it would definitely benefit from Iku or Sanae being put in there. Leaning towards Sanae since I believe Ran is already buffing offenses and Reimu has her hands too busy.
I think Suika, Orin, Nitori, Cirno should work well for that floor? Not sure about how good they'd be at taking the Guardians but the rest should be manageable. Make sure to have Cirno have 200 speed to outspeed bunnies and shubs (and probably run from both because bunnies have 60% PAR resist, Shubs are Shubs and your team can't really handle either).
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Well, I was thinking of an offensive team in mind when I said that. And of course, Charge is definitely your best buffing spells if you run the defensive team since you would not take much damage from bosses anyway.
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Oh yeah. Iku is much better if your team composition is heavily offensive and based on hit-and-run tactics. And Renko's debuffs also become more valuable if your team is made for that.
The team doesn't need to be very defensive to make good use of Charge, though.
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In LoT2, Charge deal a recoil damage in percentage instead, making it much less dangerous. It also doesn't mess with your timebar so you can have someone switch Renko in and out immediately for another Charge. Galaxy Stop is less useful in this game as it doesn't debuff Speed, takes 20% of your timebar each time it is used and It also doesn't pierce Mind anymore.
Is no one going to comment on how Charge in LoT2 also buffs SPD? Its part of why Renko became an instant inclusion to my party despite my general policy of not changing which 12 members I'm using.
Also, I'd say the threat of Charge's recoil damage is amplified when its percentage based. Sure, you won't accidentally kill squishies with it, but chunking your tanks for 33% HP each time is dangerous. I'd much rather have Renko as an Enhancer, so she can flexibly use buff spells without killing her entire ATB, while also reducing the recoil damage of Charge to 17%.
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I've managed to beat Remilia and Sakuya in my second try (even though it's a while ago), and now i'm struggling with the 12F bosses *sigh*
If anyone want to help my, me party is:
Mokou
Komachi
Nitori
Kaguya
Eirin
Reisen
Kasen
Hexer Hina
Enchanter Keine
Satori
Nazrin
Pachouli
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Since I just recently used Patchouli for the 12F bosses, I will give you a Patchouli-cheesing tactic.
For the Mirror, raise Patchouli's MAG to 3000 or more (not hard with 2 Forbidden Tablet and 50 Level Up Bonuses), gives her some Physical resistance, max out her Grand Incantation and Rapid Charge skill and you are good to go. Also, make sure Patchouli can survive any of the Mirror's attacks.
When you go into the fight, debuff the Mirror like crazy and focus on buffing Patchouli's MAG to 100%. When Patchouli takes a turn, have her Concentrate then wait until she gets another turn. When she does, use Princess Undine to deal massive damage to the mirror. It should be around 40k per hit. Rinse and repeat the process 3 times and you win. Don't take your time for too long though as the Mirror will boost its MAG every turn. Eirin's Mercury Sea can also deal damage if her MAG is high enough. Kaguya can also pierces its Mind using Swallow Cowrie's Shell.
For the Magatama, your characters should all be tanky (around 1500 Defense and/or Mind, if possible) and be raised in Wind and Nature affinity to make the Razor Wind and Earthquake attacks much less annoying. Debuffs the Magatama and buffs your characters like crazy to ensure you can deal damage to it and survive its attacks. Seriously, I have a trouble with this boss because in my half-synergy run, I have no defense buffers at all.
Again, Patchouli can also nuke this boss easily using the above strategy but you need to gear her different set of equipment: First Aid Kit, WND + 100, NTR + 100 item and Forbidden Tablet. If you can, you might want to raise Patchy's HP to around 1200. This will ensure she can survive all hits from Magatama since most of them targets Defense. Do the same process as the above except use Silent Selene instead. That should deal around 30k. You have to do this around 6-7 times if you use only her.
If your Hina is raised for damage, use Pain Flow after debuffing yourself and the boss, it will deal a massive damage since the Magatama is weak to Dark. Kasen can also deal around 12k per hit with her Curse Arm. Kaguya can also pierces its Mind using Bullet Branch of Hourai if you can ensure she can survive a hit. Since your only healer is Eirin, you need to keep her and Satori alive to ensure you can keep your party healthy from its HP-reduction attack. Enchanter Keine can also do a group heal if you invest in that skill.
Keep your healers MP high enough to heal before reducing its HP to 33% and heal whoever your key nuker is and go nuts until you win. The Magamata gains Speed every turn so it will be extremely fast by the time you reach that phase.
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Since I just recently used Patchouli for the 12F bosses, I will give you a Patchouli-cheesing tactic.
For the Mirror, raise Patchouli's MAG to 3000 or more (not hard with 2 Forbidden Tablet and 50 Level Up Bonuses), gives her some Physical resistance, max out her Grand Incantation and Rapid Charge skill and you are good to go. Also, make sure Patchouli can survive any of the Mirror's attacks.
When you go into the fight, debuff the Mirror like crazy and focus on buffing Patchouli's MAG to 100%. When Patchouli takes a turn, have her Concentrate then wait until she gets another turn. When she does, use Princess Undine to deal massive damage to the mirror. It should be around 40k per hit. Rinse and repeat the process 3 times and you win. Don't take your time for too long though as the Mirror will boost its MAG every turn. Eirin's Mercury Sea can also deal damage if her MAG is high enough. Kaguya can also pierces its Mind using Swallow Cowrie's Shell.
For the Magatama, your characters should all be tanky (around 1500 Defense and/or Mind, if possible) and be raised in Wind and Nature affinity to make the Razor Wind and Earthquake attacks much less annoying. Debuffs the Magatama and buffs your characters like crazy to ensure you can deal damage to it and survive its attacks. Seriously, I have a trouble with this boss because in my half-synergy run, I have no defense buffers at all.
Again, Patchouli can also nuke this boss easily using the above strategy but you need to gear her different set of equipment: First Aid Kit, WND + 100, NTR + 100 item and Forbidden Tablet. If you can, you might want to raise Patchy's HP to around 1200. This will ensure she can survive all hits from Magatama since most of them targets Defense. Do the same process as the above except use Silent Selene instead. That should deal around 30k. You have to do this around 6-7 times if you use only her.
If your Hina is raised for damage, use Pain Flow after debuffing yourself and the boss, it will deal a massive damage since the Magatama is weak to Dark. Kasen can also deal around 12k per hit with her Curse Arm. Kaguya can also pierces its Mind using Bullet Branch of Hourai if you can ensure she can survive a hit. Since your only healer is Eirin, you need to keep her and Satori alive to ensure you can keep your party healthy from its HP-reduction attack. Enchanter Keine can also do a group heal if you invest in that skill.
Keep your healers MP high enough to heal before reducing its HP to 33% and heal whoever your key nuker is and go nuts until you win. The Magamata gains Speed every turn so it will be extremely fast by the time you reach that phase.
Thanks, i'll try that :3
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Just did Hibachi-sama ver 2 at levels 280~320. Should I consider this a low level victory?
Yuka 274, Okuu 276, Kanako 281, Eirin 291, Keine 301, Maribel 307, Renko 313, Sakuya 316, Sanae 320, Wriggle 329, Cirno 335, Rumia 339, to be exact.
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I've beaten the final boss with Calamity Four! Probably was way too strong, Gambler Parsee took almost 0 damage from everything.
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what about ran? :V with so many good buffers in LoT2, her buffs being expensive, and she isnt exactly a good attacker, what is she used for?
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what about ran? :V with so many good buffers in LoT2, her buffs being expensive, and she isnt exactly a good attacker, what is she used for?
What she was always used for. Only this time, they made it more streamlined and "easier".
Her gimmick has always been to be able to buff up the backline without putting them in danger. Give her defensive stats and MP / MP Recovery, along with Expansion of Consciousness and Cooling Down, and she'll be relatively self sufficient only needing someone else to heal her. And with Yakumo Clan and Ability to use Shikigamis, pairing her up with an offensive Yukari and Chen isn't far fetched at all.
The reason why "easier" is in quotation marks is because there's more of an upper limit to how much MP you can have unlike in LoT1, where there was no true max SP limit save for possibly some 32 bit integer limit I haven't heard anyone complain about. On the other hand, they have given her tools to make better use of her turns spent using Concentrate so its debatable whether or not she got nerfed or buffed in regards to her gimmick.
Her buffs are cheaper than Keine's as far as efficiency is concerned (though that's not really saying much) at the cost of a longer delay. Which is completely fair given that those buffs can be made to hit the backline members as well.
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Her buffs are cheaper than Keine's as far as efficiency is concerned (though that's not really saying much) at the cost of a longer delay. Which is completely fair given that those buffs can be made to hit the backline members as well.
Um...
Without Ran's gimmick, her buffs are strictly worse than Keine's due to both delay and how much they can be boosted via level up(Ran's 2% compared to Keine's 3%).
However, with said gimmick, she actually is the only person who can heal people in reserve directly with Heart of Prayers(8% HP at max level to said skill), which isn't much, but can help.
Also, Ran can turn Chen into a Chensaw(pun intended) with her "Ability to Use Shikigamis" skill.
Two questions: Can the buff from "Ability to Use Shikigamis" be powered up by the Enhanced Buffing? And can Heart of Prayers cause it to actually heal Chen(not that that's worth much of anything, given Chen's frailty, but still...)?
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Um...
Without Ran's gimmick, her buffs are strictly worse than Keine's due to both delay and how much they can be boosted via level up(Ran's 2% compared to Keine's 3%).
However, with said gimmick, she actually is the only person who can heal people in reserve directly with Heart of Prayers(8% HP at max level to said skill), which isn't much, but can help.
Also, Ran can turn Chen into a Chensaw(pun intended) with her "Ability to Use Shikigamis" skill.
Two questions: Can the buff from "Ability to Use Shikigamis" be powered up by the Enhanced Buffing? And can Heart of Prayers cause it to actually heal Chen(not that that's worth much of anything, given Chen's frailty, but still...)?
I misread the scaling on Ran's buffs somehow, but its only a 4% difference at max level in favor of Keine's so not too big a deal.
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Two questions: Can the buff from "Ability to Use Shikigamis" be powered up by the Enhanced Buffing? And can Heart of Prayers cause it to actually heal Chen(not that that's worth much of anything, given Chen's frailty, but still...)?
I have checked it. No to both questions.
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I misread the scaling on Ran's buffs somehow, but its only a 4% difference at max level in favor of Keine's so not too big a deal.
True, said difference isn't so bad. It's the delay that makes it worse than Keine's, at least without Ran's gimmick.
I have checked it. No to both questions.
Ahh, I see. I guess that that would make sense, seeing as boosting a 66% buff in everything(including ACC and EVA) like that would be kind of crazy. Still, I would be happier if Chen had Piercing Attack, as that would make her DPS more consistent, and thus make this very buff create a truly devastating Chensaw.
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I found rans buffs to be way more useful in lot1 than 2 personally for a few reasons.
1: 1 had less buffs in general. Not only do more characters buff in 2, but there is the subclass, and many characters now have lassive self buffs like majesty or something.
2: sp recovery in 1 is way faster than 2. In 2 if your characters are in the back 8 they dont recover sp nearly as fast as if they were up front spammjng concentrate. So wfter using ran to buff and swappjng out. Shed have plenty of sp again just a few rounds later.
3: ran can take a hit in 2, but in 1 she seemed capable enough to even slot 1 tank for awhile, allowing you to spam buffs safely.
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Does quartz charm work with nitori/renko mainteniance? like, instead of 20% effects, its 40%?
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Does quartz charm work with nitori/renko mainteniance? like, instead of 20% effects, its 40%?
I think it does, but its kind of hard to prove. And by hard I mean annoying since there's so much variance in damage in this game.
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No Quartz Charm 2479 2127 2206 2425 2054 2406 2113 2320 2343 2327 2263 2195
Quartz Charm 2817 2620 2926 2544 2814 2839 2855 2503 2937 2779
Quartz Charm + Maintenance 2497 2683 2476 2721 2811 2642 2683 2675 2710 2465 2792 2653 2989 2937
You'd expect numbers that break 3000 damage if that extra effect was affected by maintenance. I'd assume any effect not directly related to increasing stats doesn't work with Maintenance (which is what should be expected, I believe).
3: ran can take a hit in 2, but in 1 she seemed capable enough to even slot 1 tank for awhile, allowing you to spam buffs safely.
She has 14/8/10 defenses. Full DEF Ran has quite enough to be a great slot 1 tank for the entire main game and some of the post game. The only reason she stops being very effective is the fact she has a 116 level up difficulty, which will make her defense kinda sorta subpar and the just ok base will make it so it's hard to just fix it with equipments and library levels. Her defense library levels are also not expensive but not the cheapest, either.
Still a great slot 2 character, though.
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Any more info on the coming LoT2 expansion?
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I just checked the page of the creators of Lot2 and i found these ;3. Not sure if someone from here already knows....
http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/image/index/diary/14_06_07.png (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/image/index/diary/14_06_07.png)
Futo portrait in-game! :3!!!!
Not only her but also~
http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/image/index/diary/14_04_23.jpg (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/image/index/diary/14_04_23.jpg)
Shou!!! ;3!!!
Well with that we know 4 characters portraits ;3
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I just checked the page of the creators of Lot2 and i found these ;3. Not sure if someone from here already know....
http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/image/index/diary/14_06_07.png (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/image/index/diary/14_06_07.png)
Futo portrait in-game! :3!!!!
Not only her but also~
http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/image/index/diary/14_04_23.jpg (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/image/index/diary/14_04_23.jpg)
Shou!!! ;3!!!
Well with that we know 4 characters portraits ;3
Thanks for finding this :3
Can't wait till we see Miko (and the other new characters) :getdown:
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Those two portraits are from last year, I believe... So yeah, we haven't had exciting news for a while. There were some screenshots of the trial version somewhere in the last(?) thread with some other characters.
Really hoping for a miracle and it getting released in this comiket. But that's unlikely.
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Does anyone think that
Ame-no-Murakumo
will be playable in the expansion? In LoT1, Maribel
, who was the final boss of the game, is made playable when the expansion comes out. Also, the patterns in both LoT1 and LoT2 are almost the same. (Boss Rush, Postgame) so it makes sense that the sword would do too.
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Is there any way around the rock on 9F Extra? When I reached it, it said something about debugging and then LoT2 stopped working.
My 9F Extra progress is now gone whyyyyy :qq: :qq:
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Is there any way around the rock on 9F Extra? When I reached it, it said something about debugging and then LoT2 stopped working.
My 9F Extra progress is now gone whyyyyy :qq: :qq:
I think you encountered the bug of the rocks 9F and 14F Extra.
Here's a possibly solution for that bug: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Bugs
Just scroll to the bottom.
Those two portraits are from last year, I believe... So yeah, we haven't had exciting news for a while. There were some screenshots of the trial version somewhere in the last(?) thread with some other characters.
Really hoping for a miracle and it getting released in this comiket. But that's unlikely.
Are you possibly refering to this one? http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg)
And when is the next Comiket? in winter? I really hope that Lot2 Sp. Disk gets released ;x
About the 12 characters left i think its a bit simple to guess who are they.
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So we got 4 characters so far. Koishi, Mamizou, Shou, Futo and Kokoro (apparently). Wonder who could the other 7 be...
Also, if I remember correctly the creators said something about unlimited floors. Hope that's true. I would love that.
Then, about the release. Hope it is either the next Reitaisai or Comiket. :3
EDIT: One more thing. That enemy name's Rotten Golem. It makes me think of Seiga for some reason...
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I think you encountered the bug of the rocks 9F and 14F Extra.
Here's a possibly solution for that bug: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Bugs
Just scroll to the bottom.
Are you possibly refering to this one? http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg)
And when is the next Comiket? in winter? I really hope that Lot2 Sp. Disk gets released ;x
About the 12 characters left i think its a bit simple to guess who are they.
Comiket is at the end of the year; probably dec 29-31 (I don't have the exact dates). Given that that's a month off, and there haven't been any updates on his blog for a year and a half (longer?), I don't think it's very likely it will come out.
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He mentioned on his twitter that he'd be going quiet on it for a while, I think? In order to buckle down and get things done.
Since he hasn't mentioned anything about showing up at Comiket, though, I think he's skipping it. Looks like we have to hope for Reitaisai or C90...
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Are you possibly refering to this one? http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/YtEenTx.jpg)
Yup, exactly.
Also: I just beat Serpent of Chaos with people below lv 400 on my team.
Offensive Sakuya outperforms Nitori at this point =w=
And no, she's not overlevelled in Library levels.
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He mentioned on his twitter that he'd be going quiet on it for a while, I think? In order to buckle down and get things done.
Since he hasn't mentioned anything about showing up at Comiket, though, I think he's skipping it. Looks like we have to hope for Reitaisai or C90...
The circle's not listed in the official catalog for C89, so yea, we gotta keep waiting and hoping
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(http://i.imgur.com/qprQcQJ.png)
Calamity Four Run is over! Beat everything in the game. That was pretty fun.
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Is it possible to hack/cheat/whatever lot1 (and 2 I guess but I only want to with 1 atm) so that you can have multiples of the same character somehow? I'td be interesting to have a run with like 1 atk-build remi and 1 def-build remi.
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Is it possible to hack/cheat/whatever lot1 (and 2 I guess but I only want to with 1 atm) so that you can have multiples of the same character somehow? I'td be interesting to have a run with like 1 atk-build remi and 1 def-build remi.
I wonder that too, also it is possible to alter the enemies stats ;/ ?
I also wonder if someone here knows how to open the img1.dxa and img2.dxa files of Lot2 since im pretty sure that there are the picture files of characters and enemies.
Because i want some of the pics ;x.
Btw no one has discovered a way to found a secret way in the 9F floor extra? Where those items are unreacheable.
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I believe both changing enemy stats and editing player characters will require .exe modification, which I'm not sure if I'm able to do.
But ripping images is trivial and this program (http://himeworks.com/tools/dxextract/) does it for you.
I think I can make a mod to make the ver 1 & 2 soundtracks the default ones, though. I think somebody in these threads would like that.
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Btw no one has discovered a way to found a secret way in the 9F floor extra? Where those items are unreachable.
The maps in this game are actually just text files, so it's easy to edit them. You just need to put a # to form a path.
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Because i want some of the pics ;x.
Btw no one has discovered a way to found a secret way in the 9F floor extra? Where those items are unreacheable.
What did you want?
And no, you cannot get to that unreachable item. Not without cheat engine - which someone used, and discovered that the item isn't even particularly rare. I forget exactly what it was, but I'm pretty sure it was just something you can get easily enough from another source.
Is it possible to hack/cheat/whatever lot1 (and 2 I guess but I only want to with 1 atm) so that you can have multiples of the same character somehow? I'td be interesting to have a run with like 1 atk-build remi and 1 def-build remi.
Change the portraits to be the same. Change the stats to be the same. Change the spellcards to be the same. Change the names to be the name (or, at least, really similar, so you can tell them apart still). And in LoT2, also change the skills to be the same. That's really all characters are: a portrait, a name, and a bunch of numbers.
EthanSilver had some info on doing this in LoT1 IIRC. Maybe 2 as well. You're probably on your own in actually doing it, though.
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Ok, so I thought this (https://github.com/henteko/2012TeResAI/tree/master/2012TeResAI/2012teresAI/DX%20lib/DxLib_VC/Tool/DXArchive) would be simple enough to follow and make a music mod to make the original OST default, but for some reason I can't seem to be able to make the game read the file.
I tried entering DxaEncode.exe -K:9DF6E8099CC39999914DF0A3 C:\input\bgm and it creates the file but I only get silence. I also tried adding 0x before the passwrd but that doesn't work, either.
Does anybody know what I might be doing wrong?
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I mean stats and spellcards. But also bear in mind there are hidden stats like skillup cost increase rate.
That said i wouldnt expect someone to do it per say, was more curious if it was possible and relatively simple if you know how
edit: Replaying lot1 after a hiatus, I'm currently on floor 24 with my party and just for interest I look at the wiki page which mentions the laterns of hell being the main threat... never have I ever had any issues with these things... the damn gems are the issues, they are way faster (faster than strategists even, ffs), can only be damaged by physicals, and the spells are way stronger (laterns have lightly more mag, but the damage for their spells is far lower... not to mention dual laser whatever is non-elemental, which is a big deal since by this point in the game everyone prob has like 200+ resist from nearly every element).
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not to mention dual laser whatever is non-elemental.
And that it's as strong as Needle Parade! Except row targeted.
The wiki has some scattered bad stuff in it. Some misinformation here and there, absurdly arbitrary level recommendations for some bosses and things like this. It would be nice if some stuff there was rewritten.
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Level recommendations were arbitrary to begin with. Nearly all the LoT2 boss level recommendations were my own musings on an older patch of the game, so those are likely a little off as well. I don't feel motivated to bother going back and giving the wiki a once over. I wanted to do it with my 3rd play through of using characters I never gave a chance, but 1) progress was so sporadic due to circumstances and 2) I didn't bother taking notes on boss behaviors and stuff that was likely changed after the big balance patch.
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I'm talking about the LoT1 section, though. I think the existence of challenge levels makes it so level recommendations aren't much of an issue. And I agree that changing it now would be a waste of time because things can really change when the update finally comes out.
The LoT2 section is a lot tidier, too.
I'd like to do some tidying up on the LoT1 sections. Not much really needs to be changed, but it'd be nice seeing it in a better shape.
I'd also like to do something similar to what is being done with build recommendations for LoT2 in LoT1. I know some of those profiles have already been rewritten to better reflect what some (particularly the characters usually perceived as underwhelming) but I still think it could use more non-obvious information.
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(http://i.imgur.com/qprQcQJ.png)
Calamity Four Run is over! Beat everything in the game. That was pretty fun.
Glad to see someone else use that team. Good man.
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Glad to see someone else use that team. Good man.
Ever since I first saw it I thought it was a really nice idea for a team. Even without a synergy skill, it's pretty surprising how well these four actually work together. Parsee could tank physical attacks like a champion with Yukari's defense skill, and at some point she went from fourth slot in physical attack-focused fights to first slot just because of how durable she was after items + library levels.
But yeah, it was a very fun run and it's interesting to see a team without synergy skills be able to beat everything in the game without serious overlevelling. I was at level 190 at the end (though I do think that might be a bit too much... but whatever). Calamity Four is a blast, y'all need to play that.
I'm not sure what kind of run I'll keep myself busy with now that Calamity Four is over. I've considered doing another playthrough of the game and focusing on characters I haven't used as much the first time. (Like Mokou, Eirin, SDM except Flandre etc.) Any ideas?
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So I've noticed some thing in my latest Lot1 run... I keep getting pretty good magic-offensive items that I'm struggling to find someone to put them on. So I looked at my party, and see who are dedicated magic nukes, and all I have are patchy and marisa. Bosses like hibachi twins aren't too troublesome though because I also have eiki to damage the magic one, and kaggy to stone bowl patchy/eiki (or a physical nuke)... or use her own nukes, but I generally stone bowl cuz it's better especially since I built her for MND.
That said I told myself I should make sure I have at least 1 more magic dpser next run, and I was thinking who I should pick. Fact is my fave physical DPS is Remi because I just love her staying power, and though she doesn't hit as hard as nitori or yuugi or someone, she DOES hit hard enough to count (normally like half as hard given her atk buffs are normally much higher since she can self buff really fast via curse), which is actually much better dps since her delay is half and she's faster, and before you say not dps cuz you are supposed to switch people out, since she's fast and her delay is not bad, she can act as a secondary switcher herself when needed which is a huge plus...so she kinda contributes to helping out with the very thing that can solve other characters' larger delays).
But come to think of it... I don't think there really IS any magic nuker like remi. Closest thing to it is like patchy oddly enough. I mean yeah she's slow as fuu but her nuke is solid damage of non-elemental nature and if she's in the back she generally can stay out for long periods of time with her sky high mnd unless the enemy has needle parade or arrow rain (or is china V2/V3...I swear she always ratetsu fists the back only.. every effing time).
I thought maybe reisen, but even with self buffs up I can't imagine she's very tanky at all, and her discarder though good cuz the debuff isn't non-elemental, so it will have issues doing damage on some bosses. I tried Kanako before and she was strangely not like remi at all. I don't know... she looked alot like remi on paper but in practice she was just kinda meh. Suiga is amazing against cld weak enemies but there are only so many of those.
Maybe magic ran, but I love her group buffs so much and don't wanna lose that purpose (though I'd do it if I could have 2 rans lol).
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Ghaleon, the character you're looking for is defensively build Yuka spamming Flower Shot from the first slot.
Alternatively:
Alice has staying power and damage, but she's also mostly a physical damage dealer.
Properly buffed 4th slot Rumia in a team that already has a healer has staying power (can take even Arrow Rain/Needle Parade if her defenses are buffed on a max MAG build, which she needs) and has good delay and damage on Moonlight Ray.
MAG Ran is fantastic, you should try her out.
Full MAG Eirin spamming Galaxy in a Pot with proper offensive buffs (I know you don't like her and this is the only reason she is not my first suggestion. but if properly buffed she's EXACTLY like Remilia but magical. the difference is that she can't get the buffs up herself)
Mokou using Fire Bird Phoenix also kinda sorta works. Not really, though.
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Ghaleon, the character you're looking for is defensively build Yuka spamming Flower Shot from the first slot.
Really? I like fast attacks but I was worried given its weaker formula and her lower mag to remi's attack, AND slower leveling, it would be an attack greatly weakened by enemies with non trivial MND. not to mention not being non-elemental doesn't help, but at least ntr isnt' a bad element... But....her elemental resists and status resists are better, maybe having more stat-oriented items instead of resist-oriented ones (which I prioritize on remi since her self-buff demands it to some extent), maybe that can compensate... I'll try it if I don't think further recommendations sound more plausible.
Alternatively:
Alice has staying power and damage, but she's also mostly a physical damage dealer.
Alice is weird... i thought she looked op on my first playthru, wasn't impressed but not upset at her either, I did end up taking her the whole game in but she never really stood out in the 'good' pile either. I didn't use her afterwards until a later playthru, at which point I found her to be more useful but still not a character I really really liked... She's fine, I don't disagree, but given that her nukes are more physical, just not applicable here.
Properly buffed 4th slot Rumia in a team that already has a healer has staying power (can take even Arrow Rain/Needle Parade if her defenses are buffed on a max MAG build, which she needs) and has good delay and damage on Moonlight Ray.
Actually I never used her after my first playthruf, which was ages ago, back before the wiki was up. Back then everyone ranted how much she stunk, and I was pretty much the only guy talking about how much moonlight ray really hurt. I didn't think she stunk. But by the later end of my run, I found she would end up dead nearly every boss fight, regardless of being a physical or magical boss. She really seemed squishier than I anticipated (other than sanae, that girl was truly a professional corpse). Now I know what bosses can do what, so I imagine I can anticipate threats to her better but.. I dunno, she still seemed really squishy back then. That also said, her nukes are mystic damage, which isn't really in demand. I'm one of the few peple who really like marisa, and one of the reasons why is because she can contribute constant dps via master spark without even being in the front for very long at all. I think of her as a hidden 5th slot character. I use master spark when her sp is only like 200ish sp each time (after a concentrate possibly), and despite mystic resists, she actually does good against bosses... not to mention she's a great trash cleaner as well given her high speed, and pretty decent mnd-piercing asteroid belt (and she's fast enough she can concentrate first, and THEN asteroid belt if you need to dent enemies with extreme defenses and you don't have kaggy/eiki/etc handy).
I was thinking about trying her again actually, but... I think yuuka looks more convincing...that said rumia is a beast in lot2 imo.
MAG Ran is fantastic, you should try her out.
I imagine she is. I have her with defensive levelup points, and most of her gear is defensive, yet every time I bump up her skill level in her offensive stats to other characters, she holds her own...Problem is I just love her party buffs so much. I like fighting bosses slow and steady, so the appeal for the smaller party buffs are that much more appealing to me because I really make the most of them for the entire party. Slow sounds like a bad thing to most people but bosses are the highlight to the game for me, so dragging them out in a safe manner isn't only... well.. safer, but even more fun for me! =P. Only causes problems with Baal guardian mostly (or is his wiki-level recommendation way low, unlike virtually every other boss in the game? I mean I know they're not perfectly accurate, but he is the only boss where I feel like the suggested level is actually on the low end of incorrect). desperation nuke bosses actually aren't much of an issue believe it or not.
Full MAG Eirin spamming Galaxy in a Pot with proper offensive buffs (I know you don't like her and this is the only reason she is not my first suggestion. but if properly buffed she's EXACTLY like Remilia but magical. the difference is that she can't get the buffs up herself)
Mokou using Fire Bird Phoenix also kinda sorta works. Not really, though.
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edit: oops, hit reply and forgot there were a few more lines to quote
Full MAG Eirin spamming Galaxy in a Pot with proper offensive buffs (I know you don't like her and this is the only reason she is not my first suggestion. but if properly buffed she's EXACTLY like Remilia but magical. the difference is that she can't get the buffs up herself)
Wait.. what... you know I don't like Eirin much outside of this game? Didn't think anyone really cared to remember my touhou character tastes. Eirin actually isn't someone I dislike much, but she's definately below average for me... the only characters I really say I dislike are reisen (her personality doesn't bother me exactly, but I'm a complete furry-phobe... I can't help it... I'm sorry, but seeing a girl with big bunny ears just kinda grosses me out, even when they aren't trying to be sexy.. the fact her meme is a 'only for sex-appeal' thing doesn't help) and Sanae (way too effing arrogant and holier-than-thou in the actual games, I'm not upset at the whole 'slut' meme or whatever).... And bear in mind I was considering using reisen as my magic-remi soo that shouldn't be too much of a factor IMO.
Mokou using Fire Bird Phoenix also kinda sorta works. Not really, though.
I considered using her for a first time after many times, but I just thought reisen is probably better in so many ways for what I want, particularly since discarder is the same element.
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- Yuka
The reason I recommended defensive Yuka is because I'm assuming you're building Remi more defensively because you've already stated you prefer defensive teams (and it's Remi's best build, in my opinion). She has what it takes to be a utility slot one tank and keep bulkier teams healed through some situations. Flower Shot may have a meh formula but it ends up being her best attack due to its delay. You might prefer offensive if you want damage, though. Both are good.
- Alice
I find her one of the best characters in the game due to just how much good things she has going for her. She's moderately fast; bulky; has a strong FIR nuke with good delay delay; all of her other attacks are still decently strong; has good debuffs all around; can be built offensively/defensively while still having good damage/bulk.
- Rumia
I tend to keep her out as I use Charge a lot and she can take a lot of hits with her full MAG build. She can barely take a Needle Parade at about full health with buffed defenses but that's still being able to take it sometimes.
- Baal's Avatar level recommendation
I think it's about fine. If I would increase it, it would be by 5 levels or so because yeah, defensive teams have a bit more trouble against it and the wiki guides were obviously made with ridiculously offensive teams in mind.
- Eirin
Nah, sorry. I don't really visit many discussions in this forum outside of some doujin games I like. I would probably remember what people active in the LoT threads say about their tastes in other threads, though.
I mean I know you don't like her because you've already posted about thinking she's bad more than once. If you're willing to try her out again, just remember you have to treat her very well with your equipment to compensate her level up rate. Now I know about your preferences, though.
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One of these days, I actually need to seriously play with Flandre. I just straight up hate the draw backs her spells have.
And yet, I should learn to play with characters whose draw backs are not just the standard ones like stat based draw backs (low SPD, low DEF, low MND, low HP, ailments and elemental resistances) or kit based ones (mono element spells, no buffs, no debuffs, no heals).
Come to think of it, I can't really think of any other characters with direct draw backs in their spells. We've got Renko and Flandre and ... nothing else I can think of. Still need to try out new Yukari as well, as consuming her entire MP pool for Spiriting Away warrants some attention.
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but at least ntr isnt' a bad element...
That does throw up a interesting question in my opinion: What's considered to be the best element (in both games)? Any thoughts on that?
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I'm not sure what kind of run I'll keep myself busy with now that Calamity Four is over. I've considered doing another playthrough of the game and focusing on characters I haven't used as much the first time. (Like Mokou, Eirin, SDM except Flandre etc.) Any ideas?
Get some folks together and do a character draft. Those were pretty fun in LoT1.
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In LoT1 the best element (not counting non-elemental) is certainly CLD, but there's really no half-decent cold attack until Kanako in postgame, and Kanako is kind of awful against bosses not weak to cold (plus it's not quite as glaringly awesome in postgame) There's a few meh CLD attacks that can see some use against all the CLD-weak bosses but it only makes them -barely- better than alternatives (e.g. Komachi's cld attack, Cirno trying to dps, etc) After that I'd probably say FIR or NTR is better(?), but it's situational; MYS is resisted a whole lot though.
Kanako looks like Remi on paper, but her HP stat is actually pretty cruddy so her middling defenses aren't worth much, and her damage isn't all that amazing if the boss isn't weak to CLD or WND.
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Get some folks together and do a character draft. Those were pretty fun in LoT1.
I'd be all for that, I've been itching to try out one of those for a long time. Don't really now how to get people together though, and everyone I've introduced to LoT by myself hasn't finished the game (or really have gotten close to it) so a character draft there wouldn't make that much sense. But yeah, I'd totally be up for a character draft. (preferably LoT2 instead of LoT1, but either is fine by me)
At the element thing, I was actually pleasantly surprised how many NTR weaknesses were in the game considering the whole setting took place in a gigantic tree and all that, but that's just me. NTR might just be the best element in the second game even, though if were going by resistances it might be PHY for that. I remember WND being good on a lot of bosses, too.
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One of these days, I actually need to seriously play with Flandre. I just straight up hate the draw backs her spells have.
The recoil damage is absolutely a non-issue because she should absolutely never get hit. In LoT1 the drawbacks in her other two spells make them absolutely useless outside of random encounters or if you know exactly that the hit will kill the boss. In LoT2 they're really not too bad, as long as you're hitting a good weakness.
That does throw up a interesting question in my opinion: What's considered to be the best element (in both games)? Any thoughts on that?
definitely CLD for LoT1 and I also believe it's NTR for LoT2. Not sure, though.
There's a few meh CLD attacks that can see some use against all the CLD-weak bosses but it only makes them -barely- better than alternatives (e.g. Komachi's cld attack, Cirno trying to dps, etc) After that I'd probably say FIR or NTR is better(?), but it's situational; MYS is resisted a whole lot though.
MYS isn't resisted as much as SPI in LoT1. And even against some bosses that resist MYS, it's still worth using it (Yuugi is the only example coming to mind. I think there was some other, though). MYS is pretty solid in 1, it's in 2 that it kinda sucks.
Kanako looks like Remi on paper, but her HP stat is actually pretty cruddy so her middling defenses aren't worth much, and her damage isn't all that amazing if the boss isn't weak to CLD or WND.
Her HP isn't cruddy at all, her bulk is pretty decent. But she is very much closer to the offense part of bulky offense than bulk. So yeah, no tank potential. Also, Suiga isn't great only against CLD-weak bosses. As long as the boss doesn't resist CLD it will deal some good damage. For comparison, your good old overinvested buffed Nitori will be dealing about 3 million damage against Hibachi #2 ver 2. Normally invested buffed Kanako deals about 1.7m Hibachi #1 ver 2. Not bad for not hitting a weakness and being able to take a hit.
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I would say Fire is the best element in LoT1. There are quite a few of enemies/bosses with those weaknesses and you get a good Fire spell from the get-go (Royal Flare.) In LoT2...I would say that all are the best except, Mystic and Spirit. The only Mystic spell worth using (for raw damage) is Marisa's Magic Missile. It is strong, cheap and has low-delay, all in one spell.
Speaking of Flandre, I have never seen anyone use her Forbidden Fruit in a boss battle at all so what is the point of that spell anyway? A cheaper, weaker version of Laevatein?
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I would say Fire is the best element in LoT1. There are quite a few of enemies/bosses with those weaknesses and you get a good Fire spell from the get-go (Royal Flare.) In LoT2...I would say that all are the best except, Mystic and Spirit. The only Mystic spell worth using (for raw damage) is Marisa's Magic Missile. It is strong, cheap and has low-delay, all in one spell.
Dude, that's like, so wrong. There is a good amount of bosses that are weak to FIR, sure. But there are so many that resist it, and they tend to resist it quite a bit, that it can't possibly be the best element.
And spamming 160 SP Master Sparks is a lot better than using Magic Missile. Especially because most of its damage comes from MAG multiplier, not damage multiplier. And if you want a fast cheap spammable MYS spell, Moonlight Ray is a much better option. Buffed Moonlight Ray is about as strong as unbuffed Master Spark.
Edit: didn't read that the part about MYS is about LoT2. I still think Moonlight Ray is better, though. Master Spark in LoT2 kind of stinks because it has a very low MAG multiplier for its cost. It's mostly damage multipliers going for it in this one.
Speaking of Flandre, I have never seen anyone use her Forbidden Fruit in a boss battle at all so what is the point of that spell anyway? A cheaper, weaker version of Laevatein?
In LoT2? It's good against MYS weak stuff, I guess? Starbow Break is already so strong that it barely has a purpose.
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The one use I've found for Forbidden Fruit is when I've done really long grind stretches on lower floors, since it wipes out entire groups for less cost than Laevatain. I've never actually figured out a use for it outside of that. I guess if you had something that was MYS weak and FIR and DRK resistant...? but that's so situational you'd probably just not use Flan.
Or if you built her 100% magic... but does anyone ever build Flan 100% magic
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Or if you built her 100% magic... but does anyone ever build Flan 100% magic
It... might be worth trying?
The damage formula is significantly stronger than Starbow Break and the delay is ok. 1000 ATB from allies is also pretty manageable. The lack of recoil damage may also make Vampiric Wrath a bit less useless? Still seems like something very underwhelming, but now I'm slightly curious.
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Vampiric Wrath skill only triggers when she is damaged from enemies' attacks which she must be weak to so recoil damage doesn't count. Honestly, the skill would look okay on paper during the main game but from postgame onwards, it is basically pointless.
To take full advantage of Vampric Wrath, you must raise her Elemental Resistance to around 80. Any higher than that and it will not be considered weak. (Not sure) At around postgame, enemies will have higher and even higher ATK or MAG while you are still stuck at around 80 Elemental Resistance, meaning Flandre will always be one-shotted even from weakest multi-target attacks or even if you raise her HP up to counteract her non-existent defenses, considering her good HP growth. It is too risky and doesn't worth it.
Speaking of which, does the Vampiric Wrath skill triggers if the damage number isn't shown to be red?
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I remember doing a count on elements in LoT1 before but I don't remember where it was... Anyways from what I do recall though, FIR and CLD are the best elements there, with CLD being slightly better for bosses and FIR being slightly better in randoms (but both have a truckload of enemies weak to them either way). SPI has few boss weaks but hits a lot of randoms too. WND has very few weaknesses but the random mobs that it hits for weaknesses actually tend to be sturdy enough that it can be really appreciated. NTR and MYS pretty much just suck.
EDIT: Found my count for randoms. No idea where my count for bosses are though.
FIR: 55 weak, 35 resist
CLD: 38 weak, 48 resist
WND: 14 weak, 57 resist
NTR: 8 weak, 62 resist
MYS: 12 weak, 70 resist
SPI: 37 weak, 46 resist
LoT2 I never really did any counting, but from what I remember Dark has quite a number of bosses weak to it, while NTR is the best against mobs. Since each stratum tends to be focused on being weak to one or two specific elements though, it's usually good enough to just bring a bunch of people that can hit those elements whenever you hit a new one.
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I'd be all for that, I've been itching to try out one of those for a long time. Don't really now how to get people together though, and everyone I've introduced to LoT by myself hasn't finished the game (or really have gotten close to it) so a character draft there wouldn't make that much sense. But yeah, I'd totally be up for a character draft. (preferably LoT2 instead of LoT1, but either is fine by me)
I'm totally down to do a character draft with bans and what not. I'm not too sure how I would want to go about doing it but I do have some ideas. I know for sure I'd want more than just two people picking and banning.
Maybe have this be a 3 person thing, each person bans 4 and then we rotate picks through the rest of the cast? Actually, probably should make it so each person bans 3 and we just have 3 auto banned characters. Like Nitori, Flandre, and .... Aya? Byakuren? Hina? I'm actually not too sure who the 3rd auto banned character should be. I guess it could even be just 3 characters that all 3 players agree to ban on principle.
Thinking about it some more, I think this should just be the main game, as I can't imagine doing the post game content at challenge level with sub optimal teams.
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Vampiric Wrath skill only triggers when she is damaged from enemies' attacks which she must be weak to so recoil damage doesn't count.
What I meant by the part about recoil is that because a MAG Flan wouldn't keep knocking herself to critical with recoil, she would actually be able to take the hit to activate it. It's still a lame skill but it would at least be possible to use.
But urgh. Post game with low resists makes it completely useless again.
Anyway, I don't think just counting resists and weaknesses like that is fair because you're counting a 120 as if was the same as a 500.
(http://i.imgur.com/EYbygho.png)
So CLD is the best offensive element. SPI is the second best, somehow. FIR comes as a third.
WND and NTR are the best monotype elements, hitting very few significant resists.
And MYS is only good because Master Sparks and Moonlight Ray are fantastic spells that are very much worth using against those light resists.
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Patchy is way too STRONK...taking out half of Giant's health with Royal Flare maxed levels, maxed buffs, Grand Incantation boost and Gambler's high cost skill.
(http://imgur.com/aQq282M.png)
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I'm totally down to do a character draft with bans and what not. I'm not too sure how I would want to go about doing it but I do have some ideas. I know for sure I'd want more than just two people picking and banning.
Maybe have this be a 3 person thing, each person bans 4 and then we rotate picks through the rest of the cast? Actually, probably should make it so each person bans 3 and we just have 3 auto banned characters. Like Nitori, Flandre, and .... Aya? Byakuren? Hina? I'm actually not too sure who the 3rd auto banned character should be. I guess it could even be just 3 characters that all 3 players agree to ban on principle.
Thinking about it some more, I think this should just be the main game, as I can't imagine doing the post game content at challenge level with sub optimal teams.
Awesome! And I do agree with the whole banning out of principle part. And I'd also like atleast one more person, yeah. (Would be interesting to do a character draft with four people, but that doesn't really work because of bans)
Patchy is way too STRONK...taking out half of Giant's health with Royal Flare maxed levels, maxed buffs, Grand Incantation boost and Gambler's high cost skill.
(http://imgur.com/aQq282M.png)
I mean, considering the whole setup you have and the fact that the Azure Giant has literally 100 Mind... seems logical to me, pff.
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Awesome! And I do agree with the whole banning out of principle part. And I'd also like atleast one more person, yeah. (Would be interesting to do a character draft with four people, but that doesn't really work because of bans)
Just telling, if there is an empty space left, I'm down for the banning too.
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I mean, considering the whole setup you have and the fact that the Azure Giant has literally 100 Mind... seems logical to me, pff.
It seems like terrible game design to me (^:
No matter how strong a character is, they shouldn't be able to trivialize fights with damage alone. Well, maybe one or two battles. But taking out more than a quarter of the boss' health in one hit is kind of the norm in LoT2. (still, LoT2 is a good game and a lot better than pretty much 90% of the RPGs out there...)
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So CLD is the best offensive element. SPI is the second best, somehow. FIR comes as a third.
WND and NTR are the best monotype elements, hitting very few significant resists.
Hm... Interesting. And kind of funny. During my first playthrough i built my Cirno as an ATK based sweeper and she held that spot all the way to 20F. What she didn't hurt significantly with Diamond Blizzard, was very often left paralyzed, so other members of my sweeper team could finish off quite easily. Considering her really good speed growth, she usually went first in battles and cryofreezed everything.
Hm... All this LoT talk kinda makes me want to replay LoT 2 again.
Not sure what team tho... Actually non-synergy run might work. I.e. i can't use any characters that has any synergy passives with other characters, like Team ⑨ and such. Including Last Fortress.
So i can use Reimu, Rinnosuke, Momiji, Youmu, Kogasa, Minoriko, Komachi, Nitori, Parsee, Aya, Kasen, Hina, Suika, Yuyuko, Yuuka, Byakuren (it's weird that Nazrin has Myouren Temple passive, but Byakuren does not. Anyway, not including her) and Eiki.
Hm... Looks somewhat playable and looks like i'll have to get really crafty with subclasses. Should be fun.
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Hm... Interesting. And kind of funny. During my first playthrough i built my Cirno as an ATK based sweeper and she held that spot all the way to 20F. What she didn't hurt significantly with Diamond Blizzard, was very often left paralyzed, so other members of my sweeper team could finish off quite easily. Considering her really good speed growth, she usually went first in battles and cryofreezed everything.
I took her all the way to the post game and I still think she's decent. Her damage is in the pretty low side of usable. But it's still usable and carries interesting properties.
So i can use Reimu, Rinnosuke, Momiji, Youmu, Kogasa, Minoriko, Komachi, Nitori, Parsee, Aya, Kasen, Hina, Suika, Yuyuko, Yuuka, Byakuren (it's weird that Nazrin has Myouren Temple passive, but Byakuren does not. Anyway, not including her) and Eiki.
Hm... Looks somewhat playable and looks like i'll have to get really crafty with subclasses. Should be fun.
Somewhat playable? You have Hina, Kogasa, Parsee and Nitori. And healers. And Aya. And damage variety. The only thing you don't have is an offensive buffer. You pretty much don't even need subclasses and the game will still be pretty regular with this team.
Seems like a fun team, though.
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Just telling, if there is an empty space left, I'm down for the banning too.
I'm totally fine with that and I haven't really found a third person, so sure, I'm game.
It seems like terrible game design to me (^:
No matter how strong a character is, they shouldn't be able to trivialize fights with damage alone. Well, maybe one or two battles. But taking out more than a quarter of the boss' health in one hit is kind of the norm in LoT2. (still, LoT2 is a good game and a lot better than pretty much 90% of the RPGs out there...)
No, I do agree that it's not really that great from a design standpoint. I was only saying that it makes sense to me why that damage is so high.
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You know what could be cool? Imperishable Night run.
Team is Reimu, Yukari, Marisa, Alice, Sakuya, Remilia, Youmu and Yuyuko.
You can only swap between partners (for example you have Remilia, Yukari, Youmu and Alice on the field. you can swap Alice for Marisa, but not for Yuyuko).
The only problem with this would be tanking, I guess. Because you'll probably have to deal with either Reimu or Sakuya in the first slot when you swap Remilia/Yukari.
The cool thing is that MAlice get to use their synergy skill lol.
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You know what could be cool? Imperishable Night run.
Team is Reimu, Yukari, Marisa, Alice, Sakuya, Remilia, Youmu and Yuyuko.
You can only swap between partners (for example you have Remilia, Yukari, Youmu and Alice on the field. you can swap Alice for Marisa, but not for Yuyuko).
The only problem with this would be tanking, I guess. Because you'll probably have to deal with either Reimu or Sakuya in the first slot when you swap Remilia/Yukari.
The cool thing is that MAlice get to use their synergy skill lol.
I did actually get an idea for that, especially with the whole partner thing, but with 12 characters and not just 8, and the fact that they all have synergy skills.
So basically, Marisa/Alice, Renko/Maribel, Iku/Tenshi, Nazrin/Byakuren (don't really know about this one because Byakuren doesn't have the skill, but there's no replacement for it), Keine/Mokou, Chen/Ran.
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Speaking of Iku/Tenshi synergy, I have tried using Tenshi's ATK buff skill and the result is very impressive. If she is raised for ATK and is with Iku, she can hit as hard as your dedicated DPSer or even nuke-tier while being tanky at the same time. She can also one-shot most enemies with high Defense/HP (like those on Desert Stratum and something like...Gelatine Cube) even without any buffs. Considering that she was a low-tier in attacking department in the previous game, this skill is definitely worth a try.
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I did actually get an idea for that, especially with the whole partner thing, but with 12 characters and not just 8, and the fact that they all have synergy skills.
So basically, Marisa/Alice, Renko/Maribel, Iku/Tenshi, Nazrin/Byakuren (don't really know about this one because Byakuren doesn't have the skill, but there's no replacement for it), Keine/Mokou, Chen/Ran.
What would the rule be for swapping out the 5th / 6th pair of characters? The 4 in front and 4 in back idea was straight forward.
And when you said 12 characters, I was imagining just the 4 groups of 3 person synergy teams. (Eientei Trio, Subterannean Trio, Moriya Trio, Yukari and her Shikigami)
It would certainly be an interesting way to play, since if I wanted to get squishy Kaguya / Reisen out in the safest way, I'd have to move Eirin from her tanking slot to the far right first.
Also, it seems we have 3 people for character draft. There's probably a bunch of things that are better handled in a chat rather than on a forum, so how does a Discord server sound?
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Ooh, that'd be interesting. And sure, I'm cool with a Discord server, even though I haven't used it before.
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Ooh, that'd be interesting. And sure, I'm cool with a Discord server, even though I haven't used it before.
I sent a PM with the discord link. Kageshirou is already on.
Edit: And here was the draft, pick and ban order was Kage > Mono > Jax. Characters are listed in the order they were picked by the player.
Universal Bans: Flandre, Aya, Parsee
Kageshirou Bans: Suika, Eirin, Iku
Monorion Bans: Yukari, Rumia, Sanae
Jaxter Bans: Reimu, Komachi, Kaguya
Kageshirou Picks: Suwako, Byakuren, Yuugi, Patchouli, Ran, Marisa, Maribel, Satori, Utsuho, Mystia, Mokou, Tenshi
Monorin Picks: Yuuka, Hina, Nitori, Kasen, Renko, Rinnosuke, Yuyuko, Nazrin, Cirno, Chen, Remilia, Rin
Jaxter Picks: Sakuya, Reisen, Alice, Meiling, Minoriko, Eiki, Wriggle, Keine, Kanako, Momiji, Kogasa, Youmu
Only playing the main game and at challenge level.
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And when you said 12 characters, I was imagining just the 4 groups of 3 person synergy teams. (Eientei Trio, Subterannean Trio, Moriya Trio, Yukari and her Shikigami)
It would certainly be an interesting way to play, since if I wanted to get squishy Kaguya / Reisen out in the safest way, I'd have to move Eirin from her tanking slot to the far right first.
Sounds like fun. I guess the best team composition for this one would be something like Yakumo Eientei Chireiden Moriya.
Yukari and Ran can take the first slot and Chen is good at running away.
Eirin can stay out and Reisen is kinda ok in the second slot with her buffs. Kaguya can be switched in and out.
And then the other two are pretty much interchangeable, except Kanako has an ability that makes Moriya take the 4th slot for efficiency.
Interesting side effect: Moriya goddesses can't get Miracle Fruits or Divine Winds in this composition.
Edit: those are some interesting teams you guys got.
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I forgot to mention you guys could also draft the subclasses too for extra spice. Diva probably gets universal ban :V
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I'm up for a lot1 draft thing again if other people are. I'd do 2 but one at a time for me and currently I'm in the mood for 1 =P
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I'm currently grinding to beat ***WINNER*** in my current playthrough and I didn't wanna join the LoT2 draft run because I'm already gonna start playing LoT2 and I already have something in mind for that game.
But summer vacations are coming for me and I'll definitely have time to play both. Sign me up for that!
Will it be until the final boss or the whole thing?
And talking about my playtrhough, yesterday I put Great Stamp up. I had forgotten how intense this battle was. He just decided to use Rasetsu Fist for pretty much every action he had and I still won, somehow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o72zoQMNds0
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It's been a very long time since I touched LoT1 so I can be up for one too.
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Personally I think SoC is a good stopping point cuz the grind after is wayyy too long to justify so little content (though unlike how many think, I think winner is an entertaining boss when you are finally able to not drop dead instantly to his stupid high #s).
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Personally I think SoC is a good stopping point cuz the grind after is wayyy too long to justify so little content (though unlike how many think, I think winner is an entertaining boss when you are finally able to not drop dead instantly to his stupid high #s).
Sounds good to me. I totally agree that the game is not terribly grindy until ***WINNER*** preparations and that ***WINNER*** is a blast to fight against.
So draft run until Serpent of Chaos? And we have three people, so... when do we start the draft?
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I'm OK pretty much whenever. Where is the draft taking place? Also we need rules and banlists.
And also I'm pretty sure the draft for LoT1 is pretty much stopping at end of main game too. You could try to go beyond but Eiki is not going to be fun without Komachi.
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And also I'm pretty sure the draft for LoT1 is pretty much stopping at end of main game too. You could try to go beyond but Eiki is not going to be fun without Komachi.
You should try that sometime. Eiki is actually a lot easier if you don't spend half of your turns trying to keep Komachi alive. Just accept you're losing one character every 5 turns and make sure that you're losing the right characters. She doesn't have nearly enough HP for Last Judgement to be an issue.
Unless you're talking about a Komachi with enough HP to survive Bar of the Ten Kings. Which is kind of a lot.
I'm fine with any stopping point, really. And I guess we could set up a Discord server, too? I've never used that, though.
Edit: made the thing and sent PMs with the link for both of you.
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I forgot to mention you guys could also draft the subclasses too for extra spice. Diva probably gets universal ban :V
I mean, Diva is only really OP if Aya is still up on the board but since she's not, no subclasses really needed to be banned. Hexer would have if they hadn't nerfed how Hexer Hina worked.
Also, unless there was a way to get access to all the subclasses from the very beginning, drafting subclasses would basically be a toss up between drafting the subclasses you get early so you get early access to them in your run, or drafting the good ones and being screwed out of the early game.
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Draft done.
Bans - Iku (Universal), Renko (RegalStar), Rinnosuke (Ghaleon), Okuu (ryin)
RegalStar: Meiling, Minoriko, Yukari, Keine, Cirno, Kanako, Komachi, Suwako, Orin, Youmu, Maribel, Yuuka
ryin: Remilia, Rumia, Sanae, Tenshi, Yuugi, Alice, Eirin, Chen, Suika, Aya, Flandre, Mokou
Ghaleon: Ran, Reimu, Mystia, Patchy, Reisen, Wriggle, Kaguya, Eiki, Nitori, Marisa, Yuyuko, Sakuya
The full BP save that Pesco posted: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11564.0;attach=26887
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fun fact: Nitori was one of the later picks, lawl.
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fun fact: Nitori was one of the later picks, lawl.
I would've picked her earlier if not for the fact that I totally forgot that she actually wasn't banned. :V
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I actually picked her pretty naturally when I would have anyway just cuz I was so panicked about survival without china/remi =P
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I'm kinda lost. So do you guys do a character draft and race, or is it something else?
This thing seems kinda fun.
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Just draft the characters and go do a playthrough with them. No race. Nobody minds if you don't finish since the fun part is the draft and figuring out how to make your party work thereafter.
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no race, we just decide to do it together but we take turns picking characters... so for me it was something like:
player1: china
me: (shit)
player 2: remi
me: SHIT! I mean (shit!)
player #? Ghaleon you get to pick 2 now
Me: (can I pick those 2?..*mumbles*), uhh..reimu and ran (I think those were my first 2)
note each player cannot pick ones others already have, which is partially the point. We also took turns banning each character beforehand. 2 of us banned renko and rinnosuke because we don't like how they kinda change how the game is played alone under certain conditions, and one banned okuu cuz she sucks and didn't want anyone to suffer having her.
Interestingly enough this made me pick characters I otehrwise hate like reisen and sakuya...the whole thing feels like every character I feel is good or op or whatever... it makes me feel like I 'earned' them by sacrificing others I like. I dunno. it's neat.
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Seems fun, would like to try one someday.
Then again I still have my "my favorites" team run, that is still stuck in 8F/9F.
Speaking of 9F... I never encountered Nitori. It's a New Game+, but I think she would still appear somehow, or it's just me being totally unlucky.
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Just had the most hilarious finish against 3F Komachi. Everyone died except Rin, Cirno and Nitori, so I just spammed Cat's Walk, Icicle Fall and Extending Arm and still managed to get her after a speed debuff and a few lucky SHKs. Amazing.
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Just to clarify, Okuu doesn't really suck. But her niche is too specific for draft runs and we already have three more popular mages with fire spells.
I'm already using Okuu for the playthrough I'm finishing and I know I'd be he only one who would choose her in the drafting, so I banned her because I wanted Mokou this time around (and I knew no one would choose her, too. so I didn't bother choosing her until the end).
Okuu's niche is being a bulky fire mage capable of playing stay in and dealing ok damage or runaway with her self buff in case you can't properly buff her for some reason. She's also almost as fast as Orin to make up for the lower burst. Giga Flare is also one of her important spells. It might not be as strong as Kaguya's or Eiki's but it's still very sufficient for when you specifically need defense piercing.
So yeah, too specific.
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Already up to 7F! So far I'm pleasantly surprised by Nazrin and Rin.
Also, I wish I could've gotten Sakuya. I'd have all the Extra Attack users and it would be hilarious.
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Up to 3F now. I mostly DTH'd the bosses I encountered but Youmu I decided to actually fight. I thought that having a team with many late-game characters would actually make it more difficult than normal (it certainly made floor clearing a lot more annoying), but it turns out that not being stuck with as many squishy characters that need help to even survive a Flashing Cherry Blossom is more helpful than I thought, since I could help the backline recover SP by just having four sturdy character in the front and play stall for a bit.
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Meanwhile I finished grinding for ***WINNER***. Now I just need to beat him before I can start the draft run.
My first attempt was funny. He used Lightspeed Movement into Medicine of Life. Used his 5 HP Restoring Medicines, too. And Ball of Invincibility. And 4 Wands of Speed. He was never below +10% SPD since somewhere in the middle of phase 2. And sniped Sanae and Eirin early with Sword of Light.
I'm impressed I could survive as long as I did despite the lack of luck.
He didn't use Time Stop, though. So there is that.
But he finished the battle with Magical Tempest.
edit: I keep making the first post of the page lol
edit2: http://puu.sh/lKxvQ/06343ac9fc.jpg
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Already up to 7F! So far I'm pleasantly surprised by Nazrin and Rin.
Also, I wish I could've gotten Sakuya. I'd have all the Extra Attack users and it would be hilarious.
I wanted Sakuya because I found out how stupid it was being able to make her into an Enhancer since she has Extra Attack. Lunar Clock with Extra Attack proccing only once means everyone gets 32% Heal and 64-88% SPD depending on Lunar Clock's level. So she could be a very good Reimu replacement if you guys took the other party buffers and she can double as a decent attacker if didn't need her on support duty.
Still haven't decided how I want to build her though. I have decent bulk in Wriggle, Meiling and Momiji and Minoriko / Keine on support so I COULD make her an attacker but I already have Reisen and Kogasa for great single target Dark attacks.
Edit: Just beat up Komachi. That fight was ridiculously easy with Eiki and Reisen in the party. Made Eiki into a DEF tank and debuffed Komachi to oblivion with Reisen and Eiki. I WAS planning on recording the major fights but I forgot to record Youmu's fight and for my Kaguya and Komachi recordings, I forgot to turn off special effects so the video doesn't lag. I guess the next major fight will be Mokou.
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5F reached. Ifrit died in three turns due to Suiga doing 11k apiece after an Orb buff. Rumia died fairly quickly because she fails at life (and because Mari does a lot of damage to her). Alice wasn't difficult either; I got quite a bit of mileage out of Mesh of Light and Darkness and Alice spent most of her turns casting Silent Cloud after I killed Healing Light. She did cast one Little Legion which took out Minoriko, but went back to Silent Cloud spam afterwards. I killer her before Magical Light (as I usually do) so she never got into her final action pattern.
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Up to 3F now. I mostly DTH'd the bosses I encountered but Youmu I decided to actually fight. I thought that having a team with many late-game characters would actually make it more difficult than normal (it certainly made floor clearing a lot more annoying), but it turns out that not being stuck with as many squishy characters that need help to even survive a Flashing Cherry Blossom is more helpful than I thought, since I could help the backline recover SP by just having four sturdy character in the front and play stall for a bit.
Cheater! (not serious)
I was just discussing after you left how I lament that I can't use yuyu for awhile because I don't want to accidentally death the early bosses, seems wrong doing that for some reason. They're already given an unfair position since we start with 12 instead of 5.
I'm wondering what battles I should try and make screenshots/videos of. I'm thinking entei, yukari, cootiesuke, and maribel at least... I'd include alice but she kinda falls in that early boss who isn't balanced for 12 catagory. I think you can get 12 by her in a normal game, or close to it, I forget, but only just barely, and even then she'll be really trivilized cuz of stuff like eiki's defense ignore nuke and whatnot. Assuming she gets enough sp to use it by then, I think she will.
edit: I thought little legion was part of her final pattern.
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You can get 12 normally by the time you reach Alice. And she does have a tiny chance of using Little Legion in phase 2.
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well I'm just starting floor 2 now lol. I should speed up by monday since weekends are always busy for me.
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About these draft things...
Because people are stuck with using the characters they drafted, there would be some characters that is left out, correct? Specifically, Flandre and Yuyuko. Does the star still count for having everyone in the party, or do you still have to fight them to get the star?
Also, following the question, does this means Nitori never appears?
Edit:
edit2: http://puu.sh/lKxvQ/06343ac9fc.jpg
You lucky fuck paruparu.
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We're using an NG+ save file that has all characters unlocked from the start. I'm not really sure if you need to do the recruitment events proper to get the stars, but the events and boss fights are all still there regardless of whether you're using an NG+ file or not. The only change I know of is that you can make the "ice bridge" that leads to Youmu fight without having fought Cirno, and that you can fight Sanae's Foe before having done 15 recruitment events.
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makes getting bp on all the characters for bosses like kaggy's foe a pain though. or does the ng+ file in this forum include bp? I didn't look.. that's a point actually, do we cheat to get bp to unlock flan or something?
Floor 2 hardest floor in the game. both bronze sorceresses and shadowcats outspeed everyone, and you can't par resist people this early.. and bronze sorceresses have evil ai where they always always focus fire on the same poor schmuck
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The save file I had (re)posted has all the BP necessary to unlock all events (except I think Youmu needs a couple of more battles for her part in the events series that lead to Yuyuko/Orin fights).
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Currently reached 4F and now I have already appreciated Utsuho. She has become my favorite sweepers in random battles.
She is decently fast so she can wipe out all enemies with Giga Flare before they even get a turn. especially when she is paired with Marisa, who has Magic Training to boost Giga Flare's power even more. She also has defensive stats on par with Mokou so she can survive a few stray hit even if it was her weakness. In the fight with Alaya-Vijnana. It likes to spam that ridiculously strong Horizontal Slice which always one-shot my squishy 4th slot nuker but Utsuho can take a hit or two. She can also take any single-target direct hit which would normally OHKO other squishy members. So, I think she plays just like an offensive Mokou.
The fight with Poison Wasp was harder than it should be because I had several party members who is weak to Nature and I had no healers at all. As a result, the fight boiled down to keeping my dedicated nuker alive by swapping often. I gave Byakuren a Poison Resistance Ring to immunize her and made her a tank for this fight. Utsuho and Suwako kept debuffing the Wasp's defenses. Patchy kept concentrating and blasting it with Royal Fare. Yuugi and Maribel kept hitting its weakness.
Also, the fight with Komachi was pretty much...Tenshi taking 0 damage from all attacks, Maribel shocking her with Chaotic, Byakuren debuffing her like crazy and my nukers pounded her until she died.
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Youmu was more difficult than I anticipated. I was unable to kill the ghost before karma slash (was her first move.. well focus was her first, but you know), and she sniped the back with present slash a couple times. Slash of eternity was capable of 1shotting anyone on my team including def wriggle, and it actually doesn't delay her that much.. it was a very messy fight. But she just couldn't kill all 12 in time (and of course I avoied dthing her). Maybe reimu 10 is a bit low for her though... not sure if I'm normally higher or not.
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Somehow I'm gathering I had the hardest time with Komachi, but that's just because I barely did it on my first try with some luck. Pfft.
I am definitely liking my team though, I feel pretty good having lots of Nature and Dark attacks. I don't really mind my lack of Mystic because in Calamity Four I pretty much didn't need Mystic only once (they don't have any MYS attacks either). Also about the DTHing bosses thing... I blasted the second Alice Doll to bits with Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, just because I hate it so much. Heh.
Really not looking forward to 7F... my amass of Nature attacks might actually bite me in the rear this time, and in general it's a super annoying floor. I ended up taking Renko's encounter reduction skill with me because the encounter rate is so so high on that floor.
Are there any methods to get BP on characters we're not bringing in the draft to unlock Flandre/Yuuka/Eiki fights? (Cheat engine if I have to)
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almost done exploring 4/5f.. having really good luck with random trash drops. I got a black onyx and a faerie wing. score!
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Are there any methods to get BP on characters we're not bringing in the draft to unlock Flandre/Yuuka/Eiki fights? (Cheat engine if I have to)
Cheat engine is probably the only way. I wasn't planning on fighting any bosses that have BP requirements, but I now realize I'd be missing out on some pretty interesting fights. I'm probably just going to get BP through grinding. I'll need all that money to keep my library levels up anyway.
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got a 2nd black onyx just after posting that lawl.. alice downded at reimu 18. Put up a bigger fight than I thought... My party feels so squishy without china or remi qq. Alice's status ailments were pretty annoying too because mystia doesn't really have the sp pool or hte recovery rate to really cure people very often yet.
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Guys, I have found something interesting while looking through the enemies' AI file. For instance;
- Iku's Debuff-resistance is changed from 50 to 0 after she uses Whiskers of the Dragon God.
- Flandre's Paralysis resistance is changed from 80 to 25 after she concentrates but return to normal after she uses Laevatein.
- Yuuka's Shock resistance is changed from 48 to 0 after she concentrates that stays that way until the battle ends.
- Ame-no-Murakumo also changes its Debuff-resistance slighty after using Divine Messenger's Light.
So,,,these will make some of these battles much easier, I guess?
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8F reached. Random encounters are a lot easier now that I have learned to use weaker enemies to stall for time, and Orin is pretty good at outspeeding dangerous things.
St Elmo's Fire - I actually almost got Game Over'd by this thing because I walked into the icon without having done any preparations, and I don't have any strong non-elemental attackers outside of Youmu, who got killed early because I mispredicted its speed. In the end Keine survived a Bonfire by 4 HP and launched one last attack to kill it. If she didn't survive I'd have lost.
St Elmo's Fire + 3 Pressures - Things went much smoother this time because I was way more prepared, and the thing got dropped without killing anyone.
Yuugi - Despite some efforts made to survive, Meiling got dropped in only three attacks. Didn't matter though as Mari and Komachi teamed up and ate up her HP way before she can kill too many people.
Tam's Foe - It could've gone a lot worse but his insistence on using his physical attacks on slot 3 actually made things easier since most of my characters can survive a stray Tackle/Slash. I mistimed again though and Minoriko got killed by the third Flowing Hellfire, but I had spare characters that could tank a fourth, not that it was necessary because he dropped before getting that in.
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My progress will be slower, at least at the beginning. I've just finished the first floor. I don't like NG+ because it kinda ruins the pace of the game, so I went with 5 characters from the draft and each new member I'll add another one to the team.
I started the game with Remilia, Eirin, Mokou, Suika and Sanae. Took a wrong turn while going for the skill point treasure and fought Meiling by accident. Since she sniped Suika in her first turn, the fight ended up being a Focus festival, because no way my team had any chance of losing against her. I chose Tenshi as my 6th character. And Chen went down kind of easily.
My characters, for reference: Remilia, Rumia, Sanae, Tenshi, Yuugi, Alice, Eirin, Chen, Suika, Aya, Flandre, Mokou
You lucky fuck paruparu.
First time I get a Regalia drop in all of my playthroughs.
Guys, I have found something interesting while looking through the enemies' AI file. For instance;
Nice!
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Throwing that out here
Posted on December 5 (https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/673174364544626689)
今週来週辺りに、東方の迷宮２プラスディスクの体験版（夏コミに配布したもの）のアレやコレを少し直したものを配布しようと思っておりまする。ちょっとだけ乞うご期待？
If I'm reading this right, it looks like they'll release the demo for the Plus Disk they distributed this past summer Comiket this week or next week. Can anyone confirm?
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Throwing that out here
Posted on December 5 (https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/673174364544626689)
今週来週辺りに、東方の迷宮２プラスディスクの体験版（夏コミに配布したもの）のアレやコレを少し直したものを配布しようと思っておりまする。ちょっとだけ乞うご期待？
If I'm reading this right, it looks like they'll release the demo for the Plus Disk they distributed this past summer Comiket this week or next week. Can anyone confirm?
That's what I'm getting too. Only I'll add that I think it also mentions fixing some things (nothing specific) from the previous demo and to look forward to it soon (this week / next week).
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previous demo? I never even knew it HAD a demo... how do you demo a plus disc anyway? need the full game to play the demo?
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previous demo? I never even knew it HAD a demo... how do you demo a plus disc anyway? need the full game to play the demo?
No idea how you can have a demo for an expansion but they had a demo being distributed during the summer Comiket which is where the Mamizou and Komiji screen shots came from.
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I see.
I've just finished my first 'dive' in floor 7 now, managed to find nitori already (last time I had completely mapped out the entire floor before finding her and I had to wander around for a few dozen battles before she showed up, goodness), and I managed to get my 3rd ring of hades already (got 2 from 5-6)... I don't really try to get them or anything, typically I only put on like 3-4 during yuyu and that's it (not 12, holy), but they're nice to find. Hopefully my luck with drops continues and I get a forbidden tablet =P.
AFter my last dive I've finally just barely passed 400 battles too so I can go back to yuugi, but wriggle is just not capable of tanking her yet. Her defense is about 600 and hp just about 1000, I whipped out my calculator and supernatural will hit her for 1.2k... so I'll have to put some throw away characters in the front and let them get slaughtered until I can debuff yuugi some and THEN bring wriggle out... probably gonna be a messy as hell fight.. I'm off to bed first though.
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AFter my last dive I've finally just barely passed 400 battles too so I can go back to yuugi, but wriggle is just not capable of tanking her yet. Her defense is about 600 and hp just about 1000, I whipped out my calculator and supernatural will hit her for 1.2k... so I'll have to put some throw away characters in the front and let them get slaughtered until I can debuff yuugi some and THEN bring wriggle out... probably gonna be a messy as hell fight.. I'm off to bed first though.
She only takes about 800 after a Hakurei Border and you have Kaguya to pass a turn to Reimu for a heal before Yuugi's second attack. And after that you should already have debuffed her some. Might need some specific ATB manipulation, but it shouldn't be hard to do.
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It also might be feasible to just forget about surviving any of her attacks and just DPS her down before she can kill you. She can only kill one character at a time at most, after all.
Anyways, I just hit the 12F relay point. Encounters on 8F and 9F were easy but those Eye of Twilights on the second set of 10-12F encounters were a thing. I actually got wiped out once because of them and lost half an hour's worth of progress. Hopefully the third set of encounters goes more smoothly for me.
Suwako: She sniped Orin with an Iron Ring on turn 2 and I had no other fire attackers, so I had to drag the fight out and took 26 (of her) turns to kill her. Thankfully my team is durable enough that I didn't really lose anyone else.
Reisen: easy. I accidentally DTH'd one minion early on but she never bothered to resummon more, and her attacks are so weak that it doesn't really matter that I had crappy luck trying to paralyze her.
Nitori: I had much more trouble weathering her attacks than Suwako's (mostly because I forgot to give my characters CLD affinities and she spammed waterfall on her off turns), but this time Orin stayed alive and dealt a lot of damage to her, and Komachi, Youmu and Mari also helped. I managed to kill her just a little after she killed Minoriko and were actually in position to screw me over.
One thing I've noted from this run so far is that Komachi actually ended up being quite a very strong damage dealer; I found that her Scythe does nearly the same amount of damage as Youmu's Slash of Eternity (due to higher base ATK), except with lower SP price tag and good enough delay to stay in. Though Youmu is still way better at clearing randoms and does have two extra elements (though there has yet to be a boss weak to either).
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Hello, OOT but...
I just found the TDPD Charagraph, would appreciate it if someone could add it to the main page.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ddpogo2ubf1m7q8/PDP+CharaGraph.rar
I think there's LoT2 charagraph too. Don't know where...
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Hello, OOT but...
I just found the TDPD Charagraph, would appreciate it if someone could add it to the main page.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ddpogo2ubf1m7q8/PDP+CharaGraph.rar
I think there's LoT2 charagraph too. Don't know where...
I remember that being the pack with the broken Marisa graphic that had all the black colors transparent for the small and large faces, and since the original pack maker never fixed that, I decided to do it myself. Just replace Marisa_LFace and Marisa_SFace with the attached copies I have. I'm too lazy to completely repack all the files atm.
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Suwako is kind of a strange boss like that. Shes completely unlike her playable self. Not that damaging but has the hp count of an if rinnosuke or something.
That said slow down. Daaang =p
Pretty sure haku barrier wont reduce the damage quite that much. And a reimu heal wont heal that much. We will see though.
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Pretty sure haku barrier wont reduce the damage quite that much. And a reimu heal wont heal that much. We will see though.
I literally calculated using the data you provided. Dunno about Reimu, though. But she should probably be able to heal enough for Wriggle to survive another hit from a debuffed Yuugi. If she falls on the third, that's more than enough stalling. You should have DPS to win.
Edit:
Cirno was a jerk with AoE spam which resulted in a paralock in my first attempt. The second time she was pretty easy because my team just doesn't take much damage from her. Yuugi joined in in her place.
Youmu was pretty easy. My team took TWO God Slashes of Karma Wind with Youmu under Fighting Blood and survived. Flandre joined in after the fight.
Ifrit was a matter of switching people. I got a Bomb Ring from a random battle that made the fight even easier.
Rumia couldn't really hurt anybody much. Eirin got just enough SP to cast Astronomical entombing for the first time against her.
Finished the Wriggle event and got Aya in her place. Finished the Minoriko event and got Alice in her place. Now the team is complete.
Alice was absolutely dreadful the first time I tried the battle. My team wouldn't die and neither would Healing Light. I had to grind a bit to level the ones who could hurt her to 20 in their offensive stat. Astronomical Entombing, Fujiyama Volcano, Throwing Atlas, Knock Out in Three Steps and, finally, Starbow Break when the defense buff was at 51% (because Flandre has awful defense piercing and her attack is still not monstrous enough to ignore that fact). After Healing Light was down, I mostly focused on Alice herself with a few stray hits to Magical Light. Beautiful Light and Alice died at the same time against a Fujiyama Volcano.
Edit 2:
St Elmo used a wind in the worst possible time but I still won. I got lazy about going back to town just to fight St Elmo's Pressures and just rested my SP back and just went for it. Pretty easy.
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Finished the switch puzzles and beat up Tenshi. It was basically a debuff and attack battle, though I misjudged her HP and she sniped Kanako with a Steel Clasher so the only effective damage dealer I had was Youmu (who had severe SP issues) , and I was forced to eat a Violent Motherland on the second focus, which led to hilarity as Komachi (who I admittedly did not particularly outfit for suviving it) died while Yuuka (who I was totally just throwing out as a sacrifice) actually survived with 300 or so HP. She immediately Focused after that and did not get her third Violent Motherland off before Youmu demolished her with one final blow.
Just an extra area, two Flandre events and Sanae's Foe to go, then it's the long awaited showdown with the Eientei Trio!
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I literally calculated using the data you provided.
Bwuh?
Yuugi has 950 atk
ubernatural phenominon formula's would be
(atk*1.25 - 0.5Def) * 1.5
Yuugi's attack 950 and wriggle's def is 600
so
(1187.5 - 300) * 1.5 = 1331.
With haku barrior buffing def by 50
1187.5 - 450 = 737.5 * 1.5 = 1106.
or do you expect me to reimu buff her 2 times in a row for +100% defense? and wriggle not get a turn for some to dissapate? Reimu doesn't even have the mp pool to do it twice and heal let alone 3 times (at all).. plus there's the whole +- 10% thing.
yuugi's speed is also 170. My absolute fastest character (mystia) is at 120. Pretty sure I'll spend 2/3 of my actions switching fresh meat from corpses when I can't take a single hit with my beefiest tank.
edit: So yeah, after buffing wriggle AND debuffing yuugi with 1 discarder she still got smacked for 1.1k... after I sold some items and used ksillpoints to buff her hp to 1200, so she lived, then managed to debuff her (and haku buff again) so that ran could take a hit. killed her with 2 casualties. Oh yeah. one of which was marisa who I started the battle in the front with since she was my dedicated suicide vanguard, she did as she was meant to, so I had the time to buff/debuff before wriggle got in there. My 2nd casualty was koi3.
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Supernatural Phenomenon has a postuse gauge of 30% and Knockout in Three steps 20%. Switching is 75%. She might also waste her turns using normal attacks or Irremovable Shackles which are perfectly survivable (though Shackles might pin you in place with its PAR effect) by many characters.
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Supernatural Phenomenon has a postuse gauge of 30% and Knockout in Three steps 20%. Switching is 75%. She might also waste her turns using normal attacks or Irremovable Shackles which are perfectly survivable (though Shackles might pin you in place with its PAR effect) by many characters.
She never attacked once =P. I never count on enemies being nice, cuz they never are if I need em to be =)
That said my yuyu now has enough sp to cast SFN once. mnd-build yuyu's SFN barely hits harder than something like a mnd-patchy royal flare or kanako suiga vs an enemy who is NOT weak to water.... now it makes nitori's gun look like a peashooter. very pleased with it =P
edit: at floor 8 now. blah, I hate floor 8... such a boring ass floor.
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(http://puu.sh/lNznW/3e236b0370.jpg)
Took me two tries because Astronomical Entombing back-to-back spam. Second try I had slightly better luck paralyzing Eirin (I thought she had 10 resistance but apparently she had 20), and she spent her only post-Kaguya turn on using Focus, which barely gave me enough time to drop her before her next turn. I actually decided to mostly disregard Reisen (not even bothering to paralyzing her) and she still contributed basically nothing.
Oh yeah I also killed Sanae's Foe right before this, mostly because I don't like foe fights at all for some reason. Obviously at Minoriko 50 the fight is a complete joke.
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Got to 10f for today. No issues with tam, suwako, or reisen. Rirnt attempt nitori yet. I JUUST beat reisen and normally do nitori after.
Glad to leave 10-12f tomorrow, its one of my fave parts in the game. That said I knew in advance my party was really damn good at trash clearing but now Im even more convinced.
So far however I havent had much luck debuffing bosses with reisen. Only yuugi got any meaningful debuffs. Most other bosses only lost defenses after multiple attempts.
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13F battles sure are fun, what with Orin being the only character who can actually deal with the encounters (Cirno is too weak to kill dangerous things in one hit and the enemies have generally strong PAR resists, and everyone else are slower than Rail Insects and the Sniping rabbits), and Slash Divers 2HKOing anyone not named Meiling with their Slash Dives. I ended up using a basically permanent party of Meiling/Youmu/Yuuka/Orin, switching out to Minoriko to stall with heals when there are Amethyst Knights present to refill Orin's SP again. Oh well, at least that's over now... I'm sure 14F will be just as fun too.
EDIT: Yup, the encounters on 14F are just as fun. Funny thing is though I just walked right into Evil Forge by accident and killed it without losing anyone.
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Since people have been reporting on their various runs of LoT, might as well share mine. I've been doing my own run with a fixed party, not a draft persay, but I tried to just pick a relatively balanced team without picking any of the truly overpowered nukers like Nitori, which led to a party of Iku, Yuyuko, Wriggle, Cirno, Alice, Suika, Rumia, Sanae, Komachi, Aya, Mystia, and Orin.
I made it to 18F last night, Yukari having been a rather tense battle wherein I realized my lack of defense buffs beyond what Sanae can do has been hurting me pretty bad this run, and while I've been making up for it by investing quite a few skill points into everyone's HP, DEF, and MND (something I've been doing all game as well, making sure everyone got a good balance of offensive and defensive library levels), it's still not been enough for Rinnosuke so far. I never really in the past underestimated the importance of defensive buffs in this game, but I think so far this run, where I've lacked major defensive buffs, has really sold how important they really are, and now I'm suffering for it by being forced to overlevel just so I don't get wiped by a stray Start of Heavenly Demise or Iai Slash right from the word go.
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now I'm suffering for it by being forced to overlevel just so I don't get wiped by a stray Start of Heavenly Demise or Iai Slash right from the word go.
Oof, yeah. It's the difference between being able to get by at R.Lv90 or having to go up to lv110. (Ah, that painful first run of LoT1 soon after the english patch release where I built everyone but Meiling and Tenshi in atk or mag... yeah, Minoriko's spell still does pathetic damage even if it nearly ignores mnd. I didn't know any better yet.)
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Much grinding later... and also some RNG luck because he sorta didn't use Start of Heavenly Demise much and he didn't use World Shaking Military Rule at all, which confused me...
(https://i.gyazo.com/e1b560308c4a8b2e5c4310ae39f776b2.png)
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[calculations]
I must have typed something wrong and didn't bother checking. Welp.
I never really in the past underestimated the importance of defensive buffs in this game, but I think so far this run, where I've lacked major defensive buffs, has really sold how important they really are, and now I'm suffering for it by being forced to overlevel just so I don't get wiped by a stray Start of Heavenly Demise or Iai Slash right from the word go.
I had the opposite reaction in my last run. I always thought defensive buffs were extremely important since the beginning, but Rinnosuke is the first time in which they're actually important. Rinnosuke, Maribel and Maribel ver 2 were the only bosses I felt the need to have defense buffs up before recruiting Renko. After that I was using Charge all the time so I don't know what to say about their importance.
and he didn't use World Shaking Military Rule at all, which confused me...
It means he didn't reach a turn that was a multiple of 4 in his last phase.
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Finished exploring 14F and beat up Triomagen and Mokou. Triomagen put up quite a fight but it only used Healing Prayer twice (and one of them was on the second turn, which means it was wasted as I was still buffing up at that point), and Cirno landed SPD debuff twice which helped. Mokou I approached without using speed debuffs and didn't put up nearly as much of a fight; she did use Curse once which did a lot of damage but otherwise she just isn't that fast even without speed debuffs and most of her other attacks bar Slash Dive pretty much bounce off my characters. I had Kanako and Yuuka buffed up beforehand to prepare for her Resurrection phase but Youmu managed to catch a turn almost right after she used Resurrection, so only Kanako was used to land the finishing blow.
Yuyuko I think I will leave until a bit later though. I don't have many fire attackers and my physical attackers are all pretty weak to magic, so I might to survive for a bit longer than I'm used to.
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Eye of twilight's stygian ferry: 5, Characters that had it casted on them with over 24 dth resist: 0.
argh.
edit: oh. 300%. nm. that makes sense now. and yes I know it's (100% - 24*3) *3.
That said in every playthru I've had I've always felt 13f is the most annoying floor (8 the most boring). I never really had too many issues with 14f. I even kinda like the trash in that floor IMO.. it's noticeably tougher than the ones before it (cept 13f), without being complete cheese.
edit: The rumia event on 9f and the chen event on 10f aren't triggering like I lack bp, this means flan/orin wont appear for me right? Or is there some kind of ng+ magic that will save me?
edit edit: nm I just cheated some bp to rumia/youmu/ and chen. I though there were a lot more bp requirements but that was lot2.
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I literally just had the worst luck on Giant Tree ever. Every time I finally dealt about 25k total to him, he healed it back up. Every. Time. He healed for 5 turns straight. What the hell.
On the bright side, I beat up Alice pretty handily. Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana kind of made that one a bit easy...
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Entei Beatenenen at reimu 47. no casualties, not particularly surprised, they're kinda like rinnosuke for me, never had much of a problem with that boss.. it's always the physical brutes that cause me troubles.
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Got through 7F. Chose Alice and Tenshi as my sacrifices for Flowing Hellfire and Yuugi and Remilia to survive them. Alice was bad in this fight because her best move is FIR and you can't count on unbuffed Tenshi to tank anything that hits harder than wet noodles. Yuugi with her stupidly low MND was better at taking Flowing Hellfire with affinity and HP than Tenshi and both are equally good at taking the physical hits (except Yuugi has HP). And using her self buff is suicide because you need to switch people in quickly after a Flowing Hellfire.
In 8F I bumped into a Calamitous Soul which spammed Flux of Yomotsu Hirasaka every single turn and Sanae's Foe. Both of which resulted in a game over and some lost progress...
I thought Reisen would be obnoxious as hell because I lack AoE paralysis but things were actually ok. Because I'd have to take hits from the minions, the strateg was to pray for physical summons and use Tenshi's self paralysis to draw their hits while the back row killed Reisen as quickly as possible. In the turn after she used Elixir, I killed all of her minions in a desperate attempt to rush down her last few HP and it worked. Gettitup V gotcha!
Suwako decided to stop being a jerk and sniping the back row in her physical phase and exclusively using Froggy Braves the element in the magical phase after I beat Reisen, so the battle was ok.
I completely forgot about Yuugi so the battle was kind of ridiculous. I wasn't overleveled enough to survive Knock Out in Three Steps but I was strong enough to beat her before the second one.
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15F explored (which was much easier than the two previous floors) and beat up Yuyuko, Hill Gigas, Great Stamp and Orin. Yuyuko was, as I had thought, a very long fight, no thanks to Wind of Souls killing Suwako in one hit after just one Iron Ring (I calculated that it actually would miss the KO by 100 HP or so, but I forgot about variance). Youmu with a bit of buffs could hit 25k with Slash of Eternity but everyone else could hit for maybe 15k at most. Regardless though even SFN only hits unbuffed Meiling for 1.5kish (and Yukari was taking 0 with just a tiny bit of MND buff) so while it was long, most of my tanks were never in danger of being KO'd. Hill Gigas of course just ate Iron Rings.
Great Stamp I also ended up trying twice. The first time I tried to fight it without speed debuff (like I did with Mokou) but found that it was way too hard to fight that way. (I also found out for the first time that Rasetsu Fist has PAR-200. Seriously. Or maybe I knew it from before but totally forgot.) I approached it again with full debuffs and it was much easier; at -40% its attacks were doing basically 1k to Meiling and Keine even with minimal buffs, and with 100% DEF buff Meiling took less than 100 damage from it. Made for a really long fight though but it was much safer.
Orin went kind of OK. It would've been better if she didn't insist on Cat's Walking my third and fourth slot every other turn, and in the end I lost Minoriko to Cat's Walk + Needle combo, but she died on the next hit.
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(I also found out for the first time that Rasetsu Fist has PAR-200. Seriously. Or maybe I knew it from before but totally forgot.)
holy crap I don't recall knowing that either
Of course, by the time you're that far in the game you generally have really high PAR resist on anyone who could actually survive rasetsu fist, which is why I didn't know after 3 playthroughs... but hah, welp
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Yeah that move pars me occasionally. It doesnt seem to last terribly long though. Like when it nails china and shes my only par cleanser she isnt useless for a painful long time, but just an attack or so.
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It lasted a very long time for me, and the database did list it as PAR-200. I didn't have any status resist gears going into that fight though because I didn't even know that I would get hit by any.
Also 16F encounters are like 13F encounters ver 2: Electric Boogaloo, except I need an entire permanent stamem. instead of just one single character. Well, at least there are no slash divers (though I have a feeling that I should not stick around to fight three Gold Sorceresses if I ever see them). Slow and steady wins the race and gives me more exp and skill points for Yukari, right?
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16F and 17F aren't that bad if you have physical AOE, but can really wreck you up if you don't. Gold Sorceresses will indeed wipe you if you don't have moves to take them out in a timely fashion.
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I've never had much issue with gold sorceresses tbh.. are they really that deadly for mnd-heavy parties? like even a mnd patchy and kaggy get nuked? I don't remember... Seriously though I never recall them wiping me once, and I most certainly doubt I kill them fast enough every time if other people have problems since I tend to have slower dps parties (though this run my party is a trash owning machine.. seriously)
I'm at 13f now, so time to make a decision.. should I snag that ribbon now? or NOT snag it, farm 20f for a ribbon (since you have to farm it for every other drop anyway) so it has a 5% drop, get one like that, THEN snag it on 13f... I think I should wait because I don't particularly recall needing the ribbon for flan, yukari, cootiesuke, or the 19f sigil bosses...that and the norns are always the most common trash enemy on 20f for me, I get htem like 2x more than eveyrthing else.
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Does that ribbon trick even work? I mean the database specifically describes that routine for the four only-source-of-their-item monsters, but it doesn't for the Norns. If it does work, I wonder what other items do it extend to.
Anyway for the gold sorceresses, it kind of depends on what spells they use, but Ether Flare is 200% MAG - 50% MND so it will probably hurt even high MND characters who don't heavily resist MYS, Also they have 16000 MND, and most high MND characters are also mages that can't really do much back against that. I'm sure any party can still beat three of them handily, but without status luck it would be difficult to not either turn it into a long fight or lose a couple of characters, both not exactly great things to happen in random encounters.
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oh yeah the database does fail to mention it.. nm. I remember before the database was out and the patch notes were released I read that simply all the 20f bosses had 5% drop unless you have the drop already.
Sweet mother of god... 13f trash was always bad.. but no china/remi makes it even worse.. guess how many slash dives my tanks can survive? 0... effing 0. So far I'm NOT seeing wriggle as a viable slot 1 tank.
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Sweet mother of god... 13f trash was always bad.. but no china/remi makes it even worse.. guess how many slash dives my tanks can survive? 0... effing 0. So far I'm NOT seeing wriggle as a viable slot 1 tank.
Hmm I can't really imagine why... I remember that when I was on the floor both Keine and Youmu could survive a single Slash Dive, and a defensively built Wriggle should have better defenses than them both. Maybe you're slightly underlevelled?
Then again I doubt any amount of build will let her survive two consecutive Slash Dives. Does your Mystia come anywhere close to outspeeding them? If you can manage to accomplish that it would make things easier for you probably.
Anyways I'm done with exploring 16F - once I got some experience fighting things and figure out the scenarios I can use to stall and recharge SP things became a lot easier. Too tired to try and figure out how to fight the bosses though, since I still have three of them to go (Kaguya's Foe, Flandre and Yukari). I'll fight them tomorrow when I have time.
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Not gonna outspeed em. mystia is at 153, and she's using a getitup 5 and a zero shift program, so it's not like I can put on a lot of speed gear to move it up. Wriggle spent all level ups in defense, sef skillups cost 1200 (higher/tied with anything else on any character), hp the same, and she's wearing dakimaki-whatever armor, holy mist robes, and black onyx...that said I seemed to have been on the threshold of surviving a single hit, now she can survive 1 barely. absolutely cannot take anything else after one though. Another reason why 13f sucks... damn encounter% goes up like 500% each step (exageration... but seriously it's cranked up way more than other floors).
edit: 13f done *gasp*. by the end wriggle could survive a slash dive and a slash, but not 2 slash dives. Dat floor. ugh.
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(http://puu.sh/lQnci/fb36070d55.jpg)
I forgot to take a sreenshot on the victory screen so here's one of the post-victory dialogue instead. Considering I have both Youmu and Suwako it's pretty much impossible I would have any sort of struggle here anyways; one Flashing Cherry Blossom and one (heavily buffed) Croaking Frog killed her before she could even use her second Barrier Release. Having good Rec% on attackers really help in this fight.
Oh yeah and there were two other bosses I beat earlier too. Kaguya's Foe was the same as the other two foes, and Flandre... Ugh, Flandre. I had geared both Meiling and Keine to survive a Levatein (Meiling could actually survive three at full HP I think), but on first turn Flandre used Starbow Break on Keine - OHKO. It ended up turning into a variation of Yuugi fight where all I could do was pull new characters in as others get KO'd. Near the end I tried to use Spiriting away to pile up enough damage to kill her before she uses Levatein, though I still ended up eating one, but then the next Suiga ended the fight. I really don't like messy fights like this...
EDIT: 17F cleared. About the only good thing I can say about this floor is that I got a Star of Elendil and a Blue Saber.
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oh yeah the database does fail to mention it.. nm. I remember before the database was out and the patch notes were released I read that simply all the 20f bosses had 5% drop unless you have the drop already.
It's not all bosses, just the ones that drop items you can't get anywhere else. The norns have a 0.7% drop rate for a ribbon. Hellfire Demonsky has a 5% drop rate of Divine Spirit Barrier, unless you already have one, in which case it's lowered to 1.5%
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I meant trash. Not sure why I said bosses.
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Just have a hilarious moment at Iku's fight on 8F. MND-built Patchy take 0 damage from all of Iku's attacks (save for Razor Wind.) Even more, She can easily survive max-buffed Light's Dragon Sigh! With that, I can easily stall until Iku's buff wear down to a manageable level.
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I spent some time grinding on 17F before heading onto 18F, which had WAAAAY easier to deal with encounters... too bad the drops and SKP suck ass. (I got another Blue Saber and Elendil while killing in 17F).
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frankly I think star of elindel is way better than anything from 18f.
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I rushed Nitori down switching characters when they took too much damage and leaving the front slot as a sacrifice.
Did the Iron Maze and tried to go for Tenshi before Eientei. My team has severe SP problems trying to keep her ailed, though, so I have to wait a bit more.
Eientei was pretty fun. https://youtu.be/Bd1rdA6VNQs
edit: 13f done *gasp*. by the end wriggle could survive a slash dive and a slash, but not 2 slash dives. Dat floor. ugh.
What kind of unrealistic standards do you even have for her? At the beginning of the floor, DEF Yuugi (with the highest physical bulk of the game) can't take two regular slashes if they both roll high damage.
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So I was just making preparations for 9F Tenshi wondering who I'm gonna use as a tank...
(http://i.imgur.com/2QAACfT.png)
Maintenance is glorious.
EDIT: Really fun Tenshi fight. My very first attempt was a lost one, so I decided to use Charge as a joke... and then Renko took about 400 damage from Sword of Hisou. So what I ended up doing was putting Nazrin as a Healer with full Speed Level up Bonuses and Gear to keep Renko healed (and also for her Divine+ damage skill), letting Renko tank all of the Sword of Hisou's while Monk Kasen whittles her HP away. Renko, Yuyuko and Nazrin could all survive her super attack and I had Chen dodge (and she did, both times).
I'm glad that Sword of Hisou will always attack the target with the highest buffs starting from the left instead of being random target with atleast 100% buffs.
I'll be interested in seeing how Kageshirou and Jaxter are gonna tackle 9F Tenshi. In my winning attempt, no one died, actually.
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What kind of unrealistic standards do you even have for her? At the beginning of the floor, DEF Yuugi (with the highest physical bulk of the game) can't take two regular slashes if they both roll high damage.
The ones you set for me... you were like Wriggle can take physical hits better than yuugi, mnd hits better than patchy, more hp than...mind blank.. death girl! Faster than an aya with chen's level! Stronger than enemy mode yuugi V3 using KoI3!
Ok maybe I exagerate slightly. I think you misunderstand though. I'm not complaining where wriggle left off on that floor, but I absolutely expected her to survive a single slash dive going into that floor =P Frankly it kinda surprised me how fast you go from being ko'd in a single dive to being able to take one and a half. That move is kinda like rinnosuke's composite nuke in that sense. new players see it for the first time unbuffed and think it's op nonsense, and then you put like one def buff on and it starts doing 0s... I KNOW the formula isn't as flimsy like that but it really felt like it doing that floor.
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The ones you set for me... you were like Wriggle can take physical hits better than yuugi, mnd hits better than patchy, more hp than...mind blank.. death girl! Faster than an aya with chen's level! Stronger than enemy mode yuugi V3 using KoI3!
:V she totally is
But in a more serious tone: she's slightly worse than Meiling at taking physical hits but with better MND. Her HP is lower but it's only an actual issue when you're taking Dual Funeral Washing Machines. But to make up for that she deals like 1/4 of a boss' HP with poison until the middle of the main game and still deals great damage (for a tank) all the way to ***WINNER***. Her speed is also interesting because it makes her bad for escorting hit-and-runners in and out but makes her fantastic to deal with emergency switches (and you can always just not invest in her speed that much if you want her to escort).
But yeah, that floor is a thing. Large groups that give a lot of exp. It's a strange floor in that sense.
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I'm not complaining where wriggle left off on that floor, but I absolutely expected her to survive a single slash dive going into that floor =P Frankly it kinda surprised me how fast you go from being ko'd in a single dive to being able to take one and a half. That move is kinda like rinnosuke's composite nuke in that sense. new players see it for the first time unbuffed and think it's op nonsense, and then you put like one def buff on and it starts doing 0s... I KNOW the formula isn't as flimsy like that but it really felt like it doing that floor.
Slash Dive is actually kind of the opposite in that it isn't as affected by DEF so HP matters more to surviving it. (If I remember correctly its formula is 168%ATK - 56%DEF.) I remember that it was doing about 3k to Komachi and 2.2k or so to Meiling (who, by the way, also fell just a little short of being able to survive two Slash Dives in a row until a couple of warp points), so Wriggle's lower HP is kind of bad there.
In any case I'm more interested in seeing how she will fare against Flandre. I already said that my Keine got 1HKO'd by an opening Starbow Break, so I'd imagine Wriggle needs some heavy investment to be able to tank her.
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In any case I'm more interested in seeing how she will fare against Flandre. I already said that my Keine got 1HKO'd by an opening Starbow Break, so I'd imagine Wriggle needs some heavy investment to be able to tank her.
Only HP monsters can tank Starbow Breaks. If Wriggle is your only option you have to hope she doesn't use it (not hard since she's kind of a glass cannon boss who dies easily) or be overlevelled. She doesn't have problems tanking either Forbidden Fruit or Laevatein, though (with the proper accessories like everyone else, of course).
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yuyu defeated at reimu 61... she was being pretty mean too using SFN more than usual for me.. and insta-deathing my Ran who was one of my dedicated yuyu-tanks despite her having 32dth resist. blargh.
Orin down at reimu 62. very messy. Her cats walk really hurt, regardless of who they hit. Used to them being kinda only annoying if they hit a squishy in the back.
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(http://puu.sh/lSoqy/893fd69058.jpg)
Down at Minoriko 95. Took two tries; first attempt Minoriko was unexpected sniped really early and the rest of the fight went down the drain; I'm surprised i even made it to the final form on that run. Second attempt went much smoother and I didn't lose anyone until the final form, which I took down despite somehow mistaking it for the mystic form (which I already killed, so me fail). I was able to realize it in time to apply a dose of 80% buffed Slash of Eternity right after he used World-shaking Military Rule though, so yay.
EDIT: Tried to see if I can speedkill 20F things with Spiriting Away. Nope. I guess I gotta go with the proper sequence this time.
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hill gigas and great stamp down at Reimu 66... didn't think I'd beat great stamp tbh since I don't have anyone with more than 5k health yet, and even with full def buffs and boss has full debuffs, huge earthquake can almost 1shot everyone, if not 1shot (cept wriggle who could take like 3).. I thought reimu would be able to survive one but no.. so wriggle lost her def buffer pretty much, So I just kinda suicide squad the boss each quake and had ran eat a quake instead of wriggle to last one extra hit. As for hill gigas, easy cuz I got 3 people who can par. But it got to move once at the very beginning, and decided to thousand hand khannon poor wriggle right away.. poor wriggle.
Edit: Yukari downded at reimu 73. I really screwed up skipping over the first djinn storm and kinda made myself barely trigger it.. But things were still going pretty smoth until phase 3 when she buffed herself up again when reisen had too little mp to compensate, then used hyperactive flying thing to 1shot patchy and...someone... eiki I think, things were kinda falling into hell near the end so I just decided to kamikazee her and finished her off. I still had a nitori cannon coming up behind too so it was kinda close but not by the skin of my teeth close.
That said gold sorceresses proved to be nothing special again. Honestly looking at it objectively, not even by personal experience. I have no idea how people can be scared of gold sorceresses and not the next floor's spirit crystalization.. they significantly faster, have virtual mnd-immunity, have way more magic power (almost double!), and they don't cast silly weak spells like flame blast, icicle whatever... and they have double-rape-ray...which they just love using. Their hp is the same too, so it's not like physical parties can kill em easier, just equally easy (harder if you have a slower physical person, but lots of physical nukes tend to be fairly quick so meh)
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AHAHAHAHHAHAHA
(http://i.imgur.com/iEpnuaV.jpg)
Very first one. And it was the Level 1 version of SFN, too. Hilarious. (Also, Renko actually survived a "True Ame-no-Murakumo's Slash". What a goddess.)
I don't think a lot of people can claim that they beat this guy without anyone dying, pfft.
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AHAHAHAHHAHAHA
(http://i.imgur.com/iEpnuaV.jpg)
Very first one. And it was the Level 1 version of SFN, too. Hilarious. (Also, Renko actually survived a "True Ame-no-Murakumo's Slash". What a goddess.)
I don't think a lot of people can claim that they beat this guy without anyone dying, pfft.
Wow, that is probably one of the least likely things to happen. Renko will be OP for a while in the main game too.
I remember getting a Shako in S2 on nightmare difficulty, which had like a 10 times less chance of dropping than on hell.
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My opinion that maribel/winner are way better bosses than that zord just increased =/
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My opinion that maribel/winner are way better bosses than that zord just increased =/
That's not the final boss. It's the early encounter with him. I actually really like the design decision to make him "vulnerable" to instant death in that encounter and giving him drops for that. It's a silly hidden thing that doesn't really affect the game.
They still are, though. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98xKCBTEAaE)
Edit: finished 13F. Completely unremarkable. Losing a tank means absolutely nothing when that's all you can lose.
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19F explored and killed all four subbosses. Rainbow Phoenix I tanked with 10k MND Yukari while switching in sacrifices to hit it with. Great Intellect failed at life. Genocider managed to Thousand Hand Kannon Minoriko before going down. Cosmic was speed debuffed and killed before its fourth turn, although it was kind of scary when Dual Colorful Light took off 65% of Meiling's health.
EDIT:
(http://puu.sh/lTBtt/8af3ed842f.jpg)
Crazy lucky fight; Mari didn't use Overflowing Unnatural Power even once after her initial one, or even use Djinn Storm/Hyperdimensional Flying Object much (just once each). I was also somewhat overlevelled going into the fight (Minoriko 137). Only lost Suwako to a Prayer of Supremacy sponsored triple decker, and didn't lose anyone else. So, yay \o/
Also, I was using Cheat Engine to monitor Mari's health and noticed that her HP actually starts with 103.5m, but it will turn to 2m when she fields her third summon. Now I was under the impression that she would passive regenerate HP until I take out her summons, but I noticed that in fact she wasn't. After taking out Igmaruji and Amnisieri, I decided to knock her around a bit with some single target spells and was able to take off around 500k before killing Toruastory (since it used Strengthen Jutsu at that point), and Mari didn't recover any of that damage. Looking at the database it looks like she will only restore her HP up to (number of enemies left on the field * 500k) whenever she takes a turn, so if that's true, one might actually be able to register up to 1m damage on her before killing all her minions and sending her into the last phase. I will try that out more when I fight her again to register stars and see how her HP behaves.
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how do you use cheat to monitor health? set it to what you know it starts as and subtract it by what you nuke it by until you 'catch it'? or is there like an address that simply shows you monster health for every encounter? I ask because I've never used a poison user before and I have wriggle soo... I don't intend to use it for any of the important fights, or I'll repeat a fight without using it, but I'd appreciate seeing how well poison works exactly.
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The address is spontaneous. You have to either use a known initial value or catch it by hitting the enemy and finding values that got decreased by that much.
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The address is spontaneous. You have to either use a known initial value or catch it by hitting the enemy and finding values that got decreased by that much.
blah.
It's weird, I know a thing or two about programming, including the difference between a variable made on the stack, and one made on the heap, and nothing about pointers ever confused me, but CE's method of 'cathing' pointers makes me scratch my head every time.
I get the impression you may think 'I didn't use the pointer thing'. But my understanding is that if you DID, you could theoretically 'find' that hp variable without searching for it every time if you did, that the pointer would 'know' where it is each battle. grr.
edit: random armchair game design comment on touhou labyrinth. I don't know if 2 is guilty of this or not, but 1 is (and normally I compliment both but say where I think 1 is better)... but the game is kinda backwards (IMO) where early game gives you a good skill point to experience point ratio, not even counting how enemies drop items far more often (even if they are worth less, in PROPORTION, I imagine they are valued approximately the same, and simply drop more often).. but as you go further and further you find that the amount of exp they reward grows faster than the amount of skillpoints rewarded.. meaning that by being a noob and having to grind really early makes you stronger overall than needing to grind later on (unless it's at 27f with liliths).
I'm saying this not because I need to grind, but because I just realized I missed a flan event after I forgot about her completely and am backtracking to find it and am noticing a much better exp/skillpoint ratio. I've noticed it long ago but doing it again now just made me have to comment.
edit: k attempted flan half-assed ish 3 times at reimu 73.. can't be bothered. she can 1shot anyone with starbrow break, even with a hakurei barrier, even my tanks... slash dive can 1shot wriggle sometimes (depending on high or low), debuffs don't land reliably, even after 4 debuffs I get atk debuffed MAYBE once.. seems like a luck-based fight at this point with my setup. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I tried various approaches and don't see how I can do things in a stable manner.. believe it or not I haven't wiped once and I'm doing this over-level 3 times and was like eff it really early. actually.. with yukari I reset at the start once cuz she used flying insect nest as her first attack on my first attempt which 1shot patchy (in the front), but on a second attempt she quad barrier'd someone and THEN insect nest, but she could tank it after a buff (Even though it pierces pretty good). IIRC.. I recorded it anyway, something like that I think.
I should upload my recordings (did one for alice, yuugi, eintei, yukari...and a few others but I forget who herp) because my HD is getting full, but takes so many timeses, sigh.
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I've tried picking up LoT1 again but it just doesn't click with me. I'm at Reimu 76, and 18F still makes me lose party members really easily, and I can never get enough fights to make the dive worth it in terms of EXP or exploration, and it's really annoying. I can't grind on 17F because 17F just wipes me and 16F doesn't give as much EXP as these floors do. I'm at a loss, honestly.
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I've tried picking up LoT1 again but it just doesn't click with me. I'm at Reimu 76, and 18F still makes me lose party members really easily, and I can never get enough fights to make the dive worth it in terms of EXP or exploration, and it's really annoying. I can't grind on 17F because 17F just wipes me and 16F doesn't give as much EXP as these floors do. I'm at a loss, honestly.
I'm sorry, I woudln't make you want to suffer thru anything in a game... the thing is everything should be fun really....
But that said, the only thing I can offer is for you to maybe consider that figuring out how to clean trash should be as 'worthy' to you as a boss? the thing that REALLY made me like LoT to begin with (before 2 existed) was how the 'trash' was as worthy a challenge as any rpg boss... Maybe not every encounter individually but, on average, when you want to explore a floor, attrition-style. THAT to me is part of the challenge/logic/fun/whatever.
If you tackle it thinking 'how do I do this, let's try THIS' instead of 'blah, what the carp am I supposed to do so I can proceed?!", I think you might like it more... if not, I got nothing, but I hope you can love it like I do! =)
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Looking at the database it looks like she will only restore her HP up to (number of enemies left on the field * 500k) whenever she takes a turn, so if that's true, one might actually be able to register up to 1m damage on her before killing all her minions and sending her into the last phase. I will try that out more when I fight her again to register stars and see how her HP behaves.
That would require you to deplete the entire 10 million HP padding she has before she summons the last minion. Good luck with that.
And by your wording I can't tell if you know this or not but you can kill her before her minions (http://puu.sh/lTQoN/46f829f2a7.jpg). It's harder to do so than to kill minions first, though. Both because she has high HP and because you don't want the minions to reach their special actions or even act that many times.
edit: random armchair game design comment on touhou labyrinth. I don't know if 2 is guilty of this or not, but 1 is (and normally I compliment both but say where I think 1 is better)... but the game is kinda backwards (IMO) where early game gives you a good skill point to experience point ratio, not even counting how enemies drop items far more often (even if they are worth less, in PROPORTION, I imagine they are valued approximately the same, and simply drop more often).. but as you go further and further you find that the amount of exp they reward grows faster than the amount of skillpoints rewarded.. meaning that by being a noob and having to grind really early makes you stronger overall than needing to grind later on (unless it's at 27f with liliths).
Exp necessary to level up grows a lot faster than skill point. Lilith floor is made so you can catch up on the levelling of any character you ignored through the rest of the game or recruited just now. The skillpoint "overlevel" you'll get from grinding Liliths is actually not much because at that point in the game, before fighting more important battles, you'll start getting "ultimate equipment", which has bonuses that overshadow that small overlevel. The design might seem weird at sight but it's very functional considering the numbers you need for those things.
I've tried picking up LoT1 again but it just doesn't click with me. I'm at Reimu 76, and 18F still makes me lose party members really easily, and I can never get enough fights to make the dive worth it in terms of EXP or exploration, and it's really annoying. I can't grind on 17F because 17F just wipes me and 16F doesn't give as much EXP as these floors do. I'm at a loss, honestly.
If you're having this kind of difficulty it's kind of hard to say what you're doing wrong with a description like that. Can you record a video of you trying to go through 18F? Or describe how a few encounters go (turn by turn) and give us some screenshots of important character equipment and skill point distribution?
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That would require you to deplete the entire 10 million HP padding she has before she summons the last minion. Good luck with that.
And by your wording I can't tell if you know this or not but you can kill her before her minions (http://puu.sh/lTQoN/46f829f2a7.jpg). It's harder to do so than to kill minions first, though. Both because she has high HP and because you don't want the minions to reach their special actions or even act that many times.
Exp necessary to level up grows a lot faster than skill point. Lilith floor is made so you can catch up on the levelling of any character you ignored through the rest of the game or recruited just now. The skillpoint "overlevel" you'll get from grinding Liliths is actually not much because at that point in the game, before fighting more important battles, you'll start getting "ultimate equipment", which has bonuses that overshadow that small overlevel. The design might seem weird at sight but it's very functional considering the numbers you need for those things.
is that a fact or are you theorizing thus? Because if I was the designer and I intentionally designed 28f to function as such, I wouldn't have made lilith's a requirement as such... sure they can perform their task as average, but why as a designer would you limit that function to one enemy unless it was one silly oversight/bug/mistake/whatever?
I also admit I have a habit of using quotes more often than your average shmoe for things, but the way you emphasize it for my reference to 27f lilith 'skill point overlevels'...makes me wonder... do you disagree that liliths provide an exceptionally high level of skillpoints? because I'd call you mad otherwise, I doubt you'd argue that! Itemization or not.
If you're having this kind of difficulty it's kind of hard to say what you're doing wrong with a description like that. Can you record a video of you trying to go through 18F? Or describe how a few encounters go (turn by turn) and give us some screenshots of important character equipment and skill point distribution?
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is that a fact or are you theorizing thus? Because if I was the designer and I intentionally designed 28f to function as such, I wouldn't have made lilith's a requirement as such... sure they can perform their task as average, but why as a designer would you limit that function to one enemy unless it was one silly oversight/bug/mistake/whatever?
It's an opinion based on my previous playthrough in which I used every single character as soon as they were recruited in the main game, changed almost my entire team for the post game, used all of the plus disk characters as soon as they were recruited and that was about the point in which people started falling behind the skill point levelling curve without specialized grinding. I didn't grind more than the usual for the rest of the game and I still had enough skill points for everyone.
I also admit I have a habit of using quotes more often than your average shmoe for things, but the way you emphasize it for my reference to 27f lilith 'skill point overlevels'...makes me wonder... do you disagree that liliths provide an exceptionally high level of skillpoints? because I'd call you mad otherwise, I doubt you'd argue that! Itemization or not.
It's not that they don't give you a ton of skill points. Disagreeing with that would be just ignoring numbers in your face lol
It's that if you grind on Liliths instead of 29F, you won't get -that- much more powerful because at that point your level and equipment make the effect of the extra library levels not too high. You -will- be stronger from grinding on Liliths. Just not much.
Edit: "but why as a designer would you limit that function to one enemy unless it was one silly oversight/bug/mistake/whatever?"
Metal Slimes. Except not obnoxious to beat.
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That would require you to deplete the entire 10 million HP padding she has before she summons the last minion. Good luck with that.
And by your wording I can't tell if you know this or not but you can kill her before her minions (http://puu.sh/lTQoN/46f829f2a7.jpg). It's harder to do so than to kill minions first, though. Both because she has high HP and because you don't want the minions to reach their special actions or even act that many times.
Yeah I know that you can kill Maribel before minions. I did that once during boss rush (so my team was obviously overlevelled for the "real" fight), and even edited the wiki to include that strategy before someone eventually pointed out to me that at normal levels that doesn't work. It's what inspired me to do the health monitoring actually because the database's description was incomprehensible.
And from what I found out in this fight, 1) Mari starts with 100m HP padding, not 10m, and 2) the padding goes away as soon as she does her third summon (this is consistent with the database), and 3) she decidedly did NOT regenerate any HP before or after the third summon. The database, however, did list a regeneration mechanic (every turn she makes, her HP will be restored to number of enemies * 500k if it is lower), so I'm assuming that it actually comes into play during this phase when all three summons have been fielded and the player is expected to kill the summons.
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And from what I found out in this fight, 1) Mari starts with 100m HP padding, not 10m, and 2) the padding goes away as soon as she does her third summon (this is consistent with the database), and 3) she decidedly did NOT regenerate any HP before or after the third summon. The database, however, did list a regeneration mechanic (every turn she makes, her HP will be restored to number of enemies * 500k if it is lower), so I'm assuming that it actually comes into play during this phase when all three summons have been fielded and the player is expected to kill the summons.
It's probably because the padding is listed wrong but the regeneration mechanic is listed right. Since no way you're going to put her below 1 or 2 million with a 100 million HP pool, the mechanic is never triggered.
And no, it can't come in action in that phase because that would make her impossible to kill before the minions if you can't deplete ridiculous amounts of HP before she gets to act.
Edit: confirmed by using Cheat Engine and setting her HP to 1 with 2 minions out. When she summoned Igmaruji her HP went back to 2 million. After that I changed her HP to 1 again and it persisted even after she acted.
It's a rather useless mechanic lol
If you can depete that much HP, you can deal 2 million before she acts again.
Edit 2: The mechanic doesn't work AT ALL. I set her HP to 1 before she summoned Amnesieri and it persisted like that until she summoned Igmaruji.
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Double post. I hit quote instead of modify...
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Ver2 bosses down (not including Maribel of course). I don't remember clearly what level I started with (somewhere around 155-160 I think), but I ended at Minoriko 171. Yuugi and Flandre killed the most characters (predictably) but I think Alice and Cirno actually gave me the most trouble. I didn't really have any problems with the others.
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Metal slimes
Maybe it's just me but that kind of enemy just seems different because they generally pose no threat to the player, they are often alone (or with others just like them), often have a unique appearence (often making it look non-threatening like they are), and are generally rare, like a bonus.
Lilith's don't feel like a bonus, they aren't really unique, for all intents and purposes, they seem like every other trash enemy.
I wonder how metal slimes became the standard for that type of enemy anyway. I'm pretty sure dragon warrior is one of the least played big-name RPGs (to english speaking audiences anyway), and it certainly isn't the only to have such an enemy with that function.
I'm currently on 18f btw, didn't make much progress today/last night cuz weekend. I like pachinko floor even though shub-niggruths are annoying as fuu.. Reimu's ALMOST as fast as them now after some spd investments into her skillpoints, so having a par that can get the jump on them other than mystia will be good.. though come to think of it I don't know how much speed I'll need to make her par when their action bar isn't full. doh. I have a good party of trash cleaners, but marisa and ran are pretty useless against them, mystia and sakuya aren't as good as they could be since shub's are weak to every 'normal' element, but their nukes are non elemental, and patchy/kaggy are too slow. Nitori is kinda just behind reimu in the speed department so she should be able to contribute soon too.
Also, I haven't had much luck with monster drops since.. I dunno, 10f or something. I was really lucky with drops until then but I don't think I got anything juicy since but a blue saber, good thing blue sabers are quite good.
edit: I said it before.. I'll say it again.. whenever I complain about a bad luck streak in a game, the gaming gods hear me and do crazy shit like
http://i67.tinypic.com/awvo08.png
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Hello people, how's the run going? :3
I just got playing again and continuing the "favorites" playthrough. Everything is fine, but as soon as I hit 10F, bam, my motivation to keep playing seems to deplete. Most trash can't be one-shotted by Aya and Marisa now, and not even Alice can clear some of them in one spell. And those top enemies can't be outsped by anything, wasting precious TP.
Besides that I'm trying to loot Machine God Lucifer in my original save for once before continuing the current playthrough. Finally got one, after so many resets. I then proceeded to loot Physical Reactor too, but it failed. How many resets do I need for this thing... And then there's the Regalia...
edit: I said it before.. I'll say it again.. whenever I complain about a bad luck streak in a game, the gaming gods hear me and do crazy shit like
http://i67.tinypic.com/awvo08.png
RNGeesus is the best. Enjoy those two Blue Sabers. :3
And about metal slimes. The definition amounts to "Rare enemies that can appear everywhere and insanely hard to kill, but is harmless. The reward is massive but they like to run away as the drawback." Liliths are not a metal slime, no. They just give a lot of Library Points, that's all. There's some RPGs where some enemies would give higher exp while being easier to fight too.
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I wonder how metal slimes became the standard for that type of enemy anyway. I'm pretty sure dragon warrior is one of the least played big-name RPGs (to english speaking audiences anyway), and it certainly isn't the only to have such an enemy with that function.
"To english speaking audiences" is the thing, there. In Japan the game has ungodly levels of popularity, from what I've heard. (It doesn't hurt that the metal slime has a bit more iconic potential than other rare enemies might, imo; it's not just some tough or uncommon enemy, it's fairly special and leaves a little more of a lasting impression, and also sorta cute)
And, hah, I remember when I got two Gurthangs at once in LoT1. And that's a less-than-1% drop iirc. Hooray 27f grinding!
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I don't remember getting two notable drops in the same battle, but in this run I have found five Blade Cuisinart and like six or seven Blue Sabers over the trek, two Elendils on 17F and two Eggs of Life on 18F, so I guess I can't complain about bad drops over the run :P Still missing a Divine Barrier for the 3rd star though, and Minoriko is already level 178. I do hope I don't have to hit something like level 230 before getting it...
EDIT: Got it (http://puu.sh/lVR9V/0ba7a1e6e0.jpg). Still had to fight about 60 battles for it though.
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Two ellendils?! Me jealous.
Its ok though. Imma eventually get 2 gold cloths to drop in 28f in one battle!... Or not.
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So does anyone know of a remotely realistic way to kill the extra Tenshi fight on 9F in LoT2? 6F and 12F's "unwinnable" fights can be done in totally realistic ways (you don't have to grind to do 6F tenshi although she'll be a pain in the neck and you'll probably godmode up someone (Yuugi?) to tome of reincarnation afterwards, and 12F can be reisen+yuyuko for instant death which isn't so bad as the normal portion of the 12f fight can be ultra cheesed very easily and quickly) but the 9F fight just makes me draw a blank. Unless she too harbors a secret instant death weakness to hit with Reisen and a Toxicologist with Sheer Force? Or maybe Nitori can be geared up into a stupid enough tank via godtweaking strats to just tank out her debuff killer swords??
This isn't that pressing since I'm already at 12f on my current run anyway, but I'm curious, since that Lilium's Panties would be preeeetty awesome to have.
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Something that was posted on atwiki: Monk Momiji with very high HP (4k is apparently safe, obviously use First Aid Kit, likely godmodeing required regardless) and 300 SPI affinity (100+100+50+50) and Chen in the backlines, use Instant Attack looping (Momiji switch self with Chen, Chen switch self with Momiji, rinse lather repeat) to passively buff up (draws Sword of Rapture) and heal HP; Reimu with Armored Yin-Yang orb do whatever she likes (buff defense of Momiji maybe?), Magician Wriggle with Misterepulsion and whatever use MP filling on everyone except Momiji then attempt to poison, Eiki fire away. When Tenshi Focuses switch out everyone, eat the Wild Dance and switch people back in (Mokou with Resurrection might help make this less hectic?).
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At Cootie-suke at reimu 91, didn't attempt yet, don't want to yet cuz my HD is near full and I don't have enough space to record it. blah...even though I likely wont be unlazy enough to upload the recording lawls....anyway, time to compress various other videos I have, I can prob make like 200gb like that but I'll settle for like 50
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Finally got around to playing again. I keep forgetting how strong Minoriko's Nature spells are. Looking back, I really should have used her for a larger portion of the Komachi fight. I also should have used Wriggle way earlier.
Speaking of which, here be the Komachi fight (https://youtu.be/X16T1G4c8Ww). As I've said before, my settings were off and the video quality is thus terrible. The random pause when it was Alice's turn in the middle of the video was due to me being called away mid recording. I ended up splitting it into two recordings and just rejoined them as you can tell.
Floor 4 caused me to remember how strong Minoriko's spells are, due to having to use her as a trash clearer through my long treks into the floor. Mokou fight (https://youtu.be/HH8RGk1pU88) could have been slightly more efficient if I didn't just start hammering away at her from the very beginning. Also would have been more efficient if I remembered to use Wriggle earlier yet again.
In any case, the fight went pretty much as planned except for that last Discarder that triggered Resurrection. I thought she had enough HP for one more hit of Discarder before the Fujiwara Volcano spam but I buffed up Momiji and debuffed Mokou earlier anyway so it wasn't a problem.
Also for future reference unless otherwise stated, tanks and supports are given level up bonuses towards maintaining a balance between their defensive stats and attackers are given level up bonuses towards their primary offensive stat. I realized I probably should have included the level up bonuses in the video, but since they'll follow a same general pattern each time, I might as well state this once and cut some time out of the videos.
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Something that was posted on atwiki: Monk Momiji with very high HP (4k is app-SNIP FOR SPACE
Ooooh, nice. That sounds pretty good. Wild Dance has meh accuracy IIRC, so surviving that shouldn't be too bad either, as much as I'd feel squirmy leaving Chen out when she's so important. (Maybe bring Mystia along as backup instant attacker...) Kaguya probably beats out Shikieiki too if you picked her over Mokou, given that Shiki has no library/lvbonus/equipment and is heavily resisted by Tenshi. Actually, Sorcerer Iku might do comparable enough damage to work since she'd rarely have to Concentrate and can self-buff her own ATK very well (Tenshi always goes for the farthest left; heck, that'd probably put Iku ahead in damage even past the convenience)
By the way, on my current run, Sorceror Iku and atk-based Meiling are godlike for high, defense-piercing dps (and meiling still tanks like a boss and can fullheal herself). <3 On the rebal patch they heavily buffed Meiling's base atk so all that stuff both ingame and on engwiki about her low attack power are sooo outdated, she's incredible. Iku's only going to get sweeter when I pick up Tenshi full-time-tank in a second and let Iku enjoy +30% def/mnd to become a tanky attacker; with 70% atb after a normal attack she can take heavy advantage.
Also for future reference unless otherwise stated, tanks and supports are given level up bonuses towards maintaining a balance between their defensive stats and attackers are given level up bonuses towards their primary offensive stat. I realized I probably should have included the level up bonuses in the video, but since they'll follow a same general pattern each time, I might as well state this once and cut some time out of the videos.
Whilst this is a good in-general tactic, a large portion of the bosses do have more or less entirely-physical or entirely-magical movesets (with like one exception that often isn't very strong), so keep that in mind as the heat turns up.
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Also for future reference unless otherwise stated, tanks and supports are given level up bonuses towards maintaining a balance between their defensive stats and attackers are given level up bonuses towards their primary offensive stat. I realized I probably should have included the level up bonuses in the video, but since they'll follow a same general pattern each time, I might as well state this once and cut some time out of the videos.
You can just go faster through the screens. No way anybody can actually read everything without pausing, so you only need to leave a decent amount of time for people to pause if they want detailed information. If they just want a quick glance, enough time to pause covers that. And leaving the stats part for the end of the video, after the boss is down, makes it a lot more bearable to do because if you happen to change your strategy, you won't need to redo the intro.
Also: I'm done with finals, so I'll finally be able to do decent progress now.
Edit: did you have any special reason not to use Kogasa against Mokou? She has 0 TRR resist which means Kogasa keeps getting buffs for free and harassing her with her CLD attack.
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Beat Yuyuko handily with average level 49. :'D
It was amusing to see MND Yuyuko take zeroes from her own attacks and Chen dealing 50k with every Phoenix Spread Wings. Now give me the same amount of damage against the Giant and I'll be pleased.
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*good advice*
Edit: did you have any special reason not to use Kogasa against Mokou? She has 0 TRR resist which means Kogasa keeps getting buffs for free and harassing her with her CLD attack.
I'll remember to do that for the other fights.
As for Kogasa, I kind of just forgot about her CLD attack until after Fujiwara Volcano. Her CLD attack doesn't inflict Terror unless I invested in Ability to Surprise Humans, but if I did that, I'd only get one level in Troubled Forgotten Item which makes the whole Terror synergy thing less enticing, especially since I sacrifice raw stats, with the EVA boost being more crucial than normal if I wanted to have more people survive Fujiwara Volcano. I realized early on that Mokou resisted Dark so Kogasa and A Rainy Night's Ghost Story (her godly Dark attack), stayed at the back of my mind until I scrambled for damage towards the end.
I've always gotten far too comfortable with alternating between a few choice attackers in all my other runs, so this is actually not that surprising for me. In my synergy run (Eientei, SDM, Moriya, MAlice) Patchouli, Remilia, Kanako, and Suwako were given almost no time to shine as I regularly alternated between MAlice, Reisen and Kaguya for my damage, Eirin and Meiling were my tanks and Sanae was dedicated Miracle Fruit spammer. In this run, its likely going to be Reisen, Eiki, and Alice that are my go to source for damage when Alice isn't spamming Trip Wire.
Hopefully, I'll be able to try to use Kogasa and Youmu more, as I've never used either towards the end game. Youmu was dropped almost immediately in my first playthrough because of her high mana costs and meh power in those spells. Kogasa stuck around for quite awhile until I realized I wanted more MAG based attackers. Maybe I'll also remember that ATK based Sakuya thats buffed up can wreck faces with Killing Doll and Extra Attack but there's already two really good Dark attacks that she's competing with....
Whilst this is a good in-general tactic, a large portion of the bosses do have more or less entirely-physical or entirely-magical movesets (with like one exception that often isn't very strong), so keep that in mind as the heat turns up.
I know this all too well but I still tend to prefer balanced defensive stats vs like a MND Minoriko and a DEF Momiji for example. I'll probably re spec the team if I'm having trouble with a boss but I don't think thats going to happen anytime soon. If there was a way to tell what type of attack the boss uses (there really shouldn't be a way, since that takes out some of the fun in my opinion) then I'd totally be all for focused defensive stats. But until then, for example I'd rather not have Minoriko die to a pathetic AoE DEF targetting attack that the boss randomly has. I'd also want Minoriko to be more useful in ATK based boss fights in general anyway, so specializing in MND tanking isn't appealing to me. The same thing applies to Momiji.
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Ooooh, nice. That sounds pretty good. Wild Dance has meh accuracy IIRC, so surviving that shouldn't be too bad either, as much as I'd feel squirmy leaving Chen out when she's so important. (Maybe bring Mystia along as backup instant attacker...) Kaguya probably beats out Shikieiki too if you picked her over Mokou, given that Shiki has no library/lvbonus/equipment and is heavily resisted by Tenshi. Actually, Sorcerer Iku might do comparable enough damage to work since she'd rarely have to Concentrate and can self-buff her own ATK very well (Tenshi always goes for the farthest left; heck, that'd probably put Iku ahead in damage even past the convenience)
If you're using the instant attack loop Chen will never expose herself to Tenshi. And I don't think Kaguya and Iku will even do any damage considering we're talking about an overpowered Tenshi with a high defense buff on... ignoring 90% MND still leaves 10% of it out there. You could try Rumia though.
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If you're using the instant attack loop Chen will never expose herself to Tenshi. And I don't think Kaguya and Iku will even do any damage considering we're talking about an overpowered Tenshi with a high defense buff on... ignoring 90% MND still leaves 10% of it out there. You could try Rumia though.
Most of the fight, her defense buff is pretty insignificant. Iku hits for plenty on the normal version even at 100% MND buff, even despite being resisted (more or comparable amounts if HVY is still on at 100% mnd than she will after it's entirely gone iirc!), so I figure she'd do fine against the super version after the mnd buff ticks down a bit. Rumia's damage is vastly worse on the normal level of the fight but it -might- be better on the super version just due to being harder to scratch her...
Yeah, Tenshi has a lot of defense, but only factoring 10~20% with Kaguya/Iku makes a preeeetty big difference compared to the 100% everyone else deals with. Even Reisen, Eirin, and Meiling have to deal with 50%. (Meiling is a godsend on the normal fight, her and Momiji can nearly solo it even without cheesestrats, they just need a bit of support.) Edit:I checked, and Tenshi has 2.5x the def/mnd in her second form; so Kaguya should be totally fine (still a quarter of the def/mnd a normal character faces in the original fight) and Iku after self-buffing would be... possibly still fine.
Also I meant leaving Chen out for Wild Dance because of it's meh accuracy. I noticed it casually missed Momiji and Meiling a lot in my fight and I'd assume super Tenshi's doesn't have increased accuracy, as that'd just be weird.
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Made some more progress. Hina Fight (https://youtu.be/_sMJ_fMeb-4) gave me a bit more trouble than I thought she would, so on this run, I respec'd the tanks' and supports' level up bonuses to MND. I also took awhile to realize I should inflict Heavy, Terror, or Silence right after she uses Misfortune God's Biorhythm. You can see when this realization occurs in the video itself.
Looking forward to fighting Yuugi at as low level as possible.
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So, I'm back to make some more progress. 7F and 8F aren't really bad except when multiple Flower Divers show up. I once got in a lockdown where I couldn't even move a single person and got killed one by one.
Now I have cleared 9F but I haven't fought Ran or Tenshi. I tried to fight Ran without triggering any events that reduce her shikigami's stats. I thought it would be challenging even with Patchouli. I was so wrong, the battle was nearly impossible and cheap if you didn't trigger the events.
After losing several battles with Ran, I was wondering why Ran moves so fast after she summoned her shikigami. So I looked up the Enemy AI and found out that Ran will gain ATK, MAG and SPD per shikigami on the field. That's one problem. When all of her shikigamis are out, she becomes so freaking FAST while she also hits like a truck. Another problem is if Ran's health is above 50%, she will stick to Magical mode, which has Destroy Magic and she LOVES to spam on Patchouli every single time I'm prepared to fire off Princess Undine. If her health is below 50%, she will change to Physical mode.
The last problem lies in the shikigamis themselves. If you haven't triggered any of the events. They will each have 26400 HP, which makes Grand Incantation!Patchouli the only one who can one-shot them but due to RNG, they might survive with some HP left.
Of course, if you trigger all of the events, Ran becomes a cakewalk since she will be locked down with summoning and you will not notice any changes in her Speed and Attack/Magic at all. However, if you didn't trigger any, the battle becomes an absolute hell.
EDIT: Looks like triggering the event that makes Ran appears as a boss icon is already counted as 1 event triggered.
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IMO Ran becomes really scary if you don't have a few people good at slamming out her shikigami. >_> Even if you take them out fast enough to prevent them from buffing her, her turns unbuffed are still intimidating when she's getting them regularly... It does get pretty easy once you do, though, so it's just a matter of being a battle where you bring in a temp character. Like I had to do for 12F Magatama because dear lord that fight is a nightmare, Kasen simultaneously being a good bulky attacker, one of the best nukes for the fight, and debuffing it's main attacking stat with her nuke... yep.
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Yukari beaten at 55, and first try, too. It was messy, but it felt good not having to do that fight a ton of times over like in Calamity Four and my first run. Yuuka is a godsend.
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After several attempts, I finally beat Ran (with 2 events triggered, 1 of which is mandatory.)
This battle is seriously one of the most frustrating boss fight ever. I have to maxed out some of the characters' spells to make the status effect land consistently, like Maribel's Chaotic for SHK and Mystia for SIL.
My front liners were Byakuren, Satori, Suwako and Patchouli. The battle started with Ran summoned her shikigamis and she was so freaking fast that she reached 7000 ATB before I could get a turn. Suwako went first and I used her to lower Ran's and her shikigamis'' Mind with her CLD move, which Ran was weak to. Then, Byakuren went second and I used her to switch Suwako in for Mystia to instantly inflict the shikigamis' with Silence. If Byakuren had a spare turn, I would have her spamming Magic Milky Way to cripple the enemies. If she was heavily injured, I would switch her out for Ran for buffing. Patchouli alternated between concentrating and firing off her Princess Undine, which could one-shot those shikigamis with both Mind debuff from Suwako and Silence from Mystia, dealing 20k each. Satori was just there, waiting for the right opportunity for an important person to be switched in. Other than that, Ran's spells are pretty straightforward (except for Destroy Magic) but with her limited movesets, she could spam them indefinitely. Even then, with her shikigamis present, Ran's spells were quite deadly even without buffs, capable of one-shotting any fragile characters,
After firing off the first Princess Undine, I switched in Mystia for Maribel, Satori and Maribel then kept casting Chaotic spell to lock Ran down with a Shock effect. Luckily, it landed consistently, buying Patchouli enough time to concentrate and fire 2 more Princess Undine. Then Ran suddenly turned serious, firing off her Soaring En no Onzuno, killing Satori and Maribel. So, I switched in Yuugi, Marisa and Utsuho to blast everything until Ran died. Patchouli then ended the battle with the last Princess Undine.
It took about 10 retries before I finally won the battle, somehow.
So, I was able to take Ran down with only 2 events triggered but I wonder if it is possible to beat Ran with only 1 event triggered.
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Still stuck on 12F, i managed to beat the mirror, however i'm having still having trouble with the magatama,*sigh* however i have been close a couple of times (can't wait till i'm gonna deal with Tenshi) :ohdear:
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Isn't agastrowhateverhisnameis supposed to use Djinn Storm on turn 1? ???
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The database says that but in practice I've never seen or heard of it actually occuring. *Shrug*
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Agastobrauma. Yeah this seems kind of misleading. Either it was an oversight or a leftover code from previous versions or I don't know what. It's just it never used Djinn Storm on turn 1 or any turns at all.
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yeah gets me every time too.. agastro-thanks-obama right? I think it ACTUALLY uses magic jitsu on turn 1 every time.
In any case, still didn't even attempt cootie-suke. sorry. Last week dungeon travelers 2 was finally on sale on the psn and I pretty much got a vita FOR that game half a year ago so I've been playing it to death, worth it. would have been worth full price. It might even be better than etrian odyssey! The shopping mechanics are the only real issue imo. but the customization, challenge, etc are more fun to me...slightly.. it's a damn fine game (they both are)
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I REALLY should get an Etrian Odyssey game, since apparently LoT is inspired by Etrian Odyssey and I just LOVE playing LoT. Maybe I'll get the 3DS Etrian Odyssey as a Christmas present to myself.
I haven't touched LoT2 since my last post due to finals, but soon, I'll get right back to making progress and hopefully catch up to Monothemeerp.
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Yeah, I've been itching to play an EO game myself. I wanna get around to that some time.
Also, my progress is probably gonna slow down a bit because 16-18F are coming up and those are gonna be reaaally annoying to navigate. Probably my second least favorite stratum other than 7-9F, the fact that it's purple and the music is nice give it some saving grace.
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I REALLY should get an Etrian Odyssey game, since apparently LoT is inspired by Etrian Odyssey and I just LOVE playing LoT. Maybe I'll get the 3DS Etrian Odyssey as a Christmas present to myself.
I haven't touched LoT2 since my last post due to finals, but soon, I'll get right back to making progress and hopefully catch up to Monothemeerp.
Yeah, I've been itching to play an EO game myself. I wanna get around to that some time.
Also, my progress is probably gonna slow down a bit because 16-18F are coming up and those are gonna be reaaally annoying to navigate. Probably my second least favorite stratum other than 7-9F, the fact that it's purple and the music is nice give it some saving grace.
I'm a big fan of the EO games as well - they're similar in the sense that both are dungeon crawling RPGs with a heavy emphasis on exploring and hard randoms/bosses, but for LoT1 at least, the similarities pretty much end there. (...If you discount the game's title and SoC's theme at least) There's no in-battle switch mechanic in EO (or at least, not one like LoT's) meaning smaller parties, there's a lot more focus on drawing your own map, and customizing your characters is a huge part of the allure of the game.
LoT2, on the other hand, takes its skill and subclass system right from EO, and some of the story bits wouldn't look out of place at all in an EO game either - so if you prefer LoT2 to LoT1 for those reasons, you'll probably like EO more.
My biggest regret when translating the original was that I didn't localize the title to Gensokyian/Eastern Odyssey.
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yeah gets me every time too.. agastro-thanks-obama right? I think it ACTUALLY uses magic jitsu on turn 1 every time.
It doesn't. Strengthen Jutsu is a 10% chance random action and his opener is random. I used to think it was something that was removed in a later patch but the oldest footage we have of Agastobrauma (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8421505)still doesn't have Djinn Storm. It was probably planned but never made it to a released version.
I REALLY should get an Etrian Odyssey game, since apparently LoT is inspired by Etrian Odyssey and I just LOVE playing LoT. Maybe I'll get the 3DS Etrian Odyssey as a Christmas present to myself.
Yeah, I've been itching to play an EO game myself. I wanna get around to that some time.
I love Etrian Odyssey games so much that my youtube channel is practically dedicated to challenge runs of the games. I highly recommend that you guys do play it sometime. Like Deranged said, the similarities between the two games are actually only in genre and general atmosphere, but I bet you'd enjoy it.
I advise that you guys try one of the first four games and stay away from the damage creep mess that is the Untold games, though. The first four were like LoT2 in which there are some broken things but the game is mostly well balanced. In the Untold games you can choose to kill literally any boss in less than 5 turns or slog through their incredibly bloated HP numbers with a sub optimal burst team.
LoT2, on the other hand, takes its skill and subclass system right from EO, and some of the story bits wouldn't look out of place at all in an EO game either - so if you prefer LoT2 to LoT1 for those reasons, you'll probably like EO more.
I'd say people who prefer LoT1 over LoT2 are more prone to prefer EO and EOII over the others and people who prefer LoT2 over LoT1 will probably like EOIII and EOIV more. You can draw quite a few parallels in the game design choices in those groups, actually.
My biggest regret when translating the original was that I didn't localize the title to Gensokyian/Eastern Odyssey.
Oh gosh.
Anyway, I finished 14F and 15F.
Evil Forge was still that thing you ask yourself if it's even a boss.
Triomagen I thought would be annoying but Aya and Suika had great SP recovery and both could take any Wind easily, so there was always one of them hitting the boss. They also didn't use Healing Prayer woo!
I actually almost wiped against Hill Gigas lmao. I had almost no SP on Yuugi, my only source of paralysis, and accidentally walked in into his battle. I used Aya and Sanae to keep her speed up at all times to allow her to Focus and still keep the paralysis up.
I'm seriously afraid of fighting Yuyuko with my team that can't paralyze or buff defenses, so I'm delaying the fight a bit.
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IMO EO2>EO4>EO1>EO3 =P
EO3's post-game dungeon has best music though. It's a really cool song that kinda has a feeling games don't often feel for more than moments or events, but rarely dungeons/battles.
ahh found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GtGLNPJqrA
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EOII > EOI > EOIII > EOIV, for me.
And EOIV might be the lowest but I still freaking love that game. It's a -very- close ranking.
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4 > 3 = U2 > 2 = U1 > 1.
My ranking is a little biased due to being a huge fan of Yuzo Koshiro (and thinking U2 and 4 are some of his best works) and assuming that broken Immunize in 1 was normal for the series, thus spamming it all the way through and trivializing the game.
At least the gamebreakers in the other games are more focused on outputting unbelievable numbers instead of taking single-digit damage from enemy attacks. The former is always somehow more satisfying (and quicker).
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At least the gamebreakers in the other games are more focused on outputting unbelievable numbers instead of taking single-digit damage from enemy attacks. The former is always somehow more satisfying (and quicker).
Immunize doesn't carry you through the entire game. All of the bonus bosses have means of dealing with Immunize (instant death, confusion, buff removal...) and attacks that deal significant amounts of damage through that. And most bosses have means of making things go wrong if your strategy is literally just Immunize and take little damage (Cernunos' instant death, Royalant's unlimited servants, Cotrangl's binds etc).
Immunize is indeed an overpowered skill due to the way its formula works (its multiplicative damage reduction is factored before the additive armor reduction), but people vastly overestimate its power and ignore that they have to do more than just use Immunize to win.
Meanwhile you can use the exact same braindead strategy in the Untold games and trivialize every single boss in the games.
I seriously have no idea of how somebody can think it's satisfying to completely ignore everything a boss does and kill it before it does anything relevant. That, to me, sounds as retarded as hacking a lv 2000 Flandre in the first floor and spamming Laevatein for the rest of the game "Big numbers :DDD"
Furthermore EOI is completely playable without a Immunize/a Medic. On the other hand the HP numbers in the Untold games (mostly in U2) are so ridiculously bloated in a futile attempt to "balance" the high damage output that you're capable in those games that you're just torturing yourself against boring damage sponges by trying to play any different.
tl;dr: there is an enormous difference between having a few imbalanced things and being badly designed.
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I mean you can still do the exact same thing in Untold as you can in eo2/3/4, broken party setups aren't anything new. (And, honestly, if you add Defender to immunize in eo1 you take so little damage that there's very few times the additional things to deal with are actually enough of a problem to -really- care.) In -any- EO game it's a matter of "it's fun if you aren't looking up the broken setups (or theorycrafting your party hard enough to make one yourself)". (IMO EO1 is crazy boring either way though and 2 is only just into decently playable range, after that they're all basically fine even though each has a handful of problematic quirks)
I also think the EOU2 hp complaint is pretty silly since any non-awful party shouldn't take much longer to kill bosses than you would in any other game. My friend did a casual run with a meh-ish totally not broken party when it was still JP (so he barely even used non-same-class grimoires due to reading difficulties) and I don't recall the bosses taking more than 20 turns. Isn't that something everyone just complained about before US release because the HP counts were really high and they plugged their ears when people told them you generally shaved half off before the fight and they were ignoring you do way more damage than in EO2 even without breaking things? "BUT BUT ____ HAS LIKE 4X THE HP HE SHOULD" "Yeah that's because he has a gimmick that lets you do double damage -and- you shave a third off before the fight."
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Just in case anyone's lost about what Immunize does in EO1: It's a party-wide buff that, at maximum level, does a flat 60% damage reduction to every single type of damage in the game for 14 TP (A level 20 naked medic has about 55ish TP), lasts five turns, and you can add another five by casting it again while it's active, up to a maximum of nine. This reduction is factored before damage reduction from armor defense boosts and other buffs, which makes the actual damage reduction considerably more than 60%. This damage reduction can also be Boosted, which increases the flat damage reduction to 85% in exchange for using your boost gauge (which naturally recovers upon taking normal actions in battle), and can last nine turns if you layer it on top of an initial non-boosted Immunize.
In short, with Immunize, you can turn any attack that would normally kill you two times over into something that's decently survivable, and turn an attack that's barely survivable into a mosquito bite. And double that for Boosted Immunize.
snip
As a general reply to your post, I think Immunize is the most terrible of EO series gamebreakers, for the following reasons:
-It trivializes the defensive portion of 90% of the FOE/boss fights in the game, especially if you pair it with a Troubadour who can regen TP every turn and/or a Protector with another (physical-only) defensive buff. Most of the remaining fights just require a bit of resistance equipment or status healing/reviving items or simply waiting statuses out and refreshing/applying it again.
-It requires a mere 19 skill points on a single character to unlock and max out, meaning you have access to it at level 17 - essentially from the second stratum onwards, potentially trivializing every major fight in the game after.
-It's entirely possible to accidentally break the game for yourself because it's so easy to do - you simply need to have one of the most natural classes as a party member, and think that a party-wide defensive buff sounds good to have. This is heavily unlike the gamebreaking x-turn-kill setups in other games which usually require very specific setups and/or lots of levels/skill points/top-tier equipment and/or painstaking farming for the necessary grimoire skills.
-The final bonus boss of postgame seems tuned assuming you have at least Immunize up at all times, if not boosted - pretty much every strategy I've seen requires it to keep from being overwhelmed by damage. (I would love to hear about/see a fight without an Immunize Medic) On the other hand, I've beaten the bonus bosses in pretty much all the other games using standard parties and none of the x-turn kill gamebreaking options.
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lasts five turns, and you can add another five by casting it again while it's active, up to a maximum of nine.
You can't. In the first game you only refresh buffs back to their original maximum duration. You're thinking about Untold mechanics.
-especially if you pair it with a Troubadour who can regen TP every turn and/or a Protector with another (physical-only) defensive buff. Most of the remaining fights just require a bit of resistance equipment or status healing/reviving items or simply waiting statuses out and refreshing/applying it again.
Literal waste of turns and skill points that could have been used in the elemental songs. There isn't a single battle in the entire game that should be capable of exhausting your TP pool more than what is reasonable to heal with items (and the ones that you need items for are very late in the game, when the price for those is a non-issue). You're wasting a buff slot that could be used for something else for an effect you could achieve in a single item, if that. Practically the same goes for people using a Dark Ether spammer in EO III and thinking they're being clever. It's not mathematically worth it unless you have a row spamming the most expensive attack in the game. And even then it's barely worth anything.
EOI is also quite lacking in ailment resistant gear (the best ones anybody can equip are one that gives a 20% resist to ailments and one that gives a 20% resist to instant death). So no, you can't trivialize this part as easily as you claim and once again you're confusing later game mechanics.
Furthermore, ailments in EOI have a fixed duration of 5 turns, instead of the volatile duration introduced in EOIII. "Just waiting" a strong ailment out is a very poor choice.
-It requires a mere 19 skill points on a single character to unlock and max out, meaning you have access to it at level 17 - essentially from the second stratum onwards, potentially trivializing every major fight in the game after.
-It's entirely possible to accidentally break the game for yourself because it's so easy to do - you simply need to have one of the most natural classes as a party member, and think that a party-wide defensive buff sounds good to have. This is heavily unlike the gamebreaking x-turn-kill setups in other games which usually require very specific setups and/or lots of levels/skill points/top-tier equipment and/or painstaking farming for the necessary grimoire skills.
Three things:
- Immunize doesn't carry you through the entire game while the brain dead damage optimization strategies will.
- It's quite trivial to break the game in EOIV and the Untold games. You literally just need to do a bit of effort in damage optimization and that's it. Only Ur-Devil gives you some sort of challenge in thinking about damage optimization and even then it mostly comes to grinding the abomination that is the grimoire system. And even with this challenge, damage optimization is so easy that the first video in which Ur-Devil is killed without a quick kill team (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26796342), did not come out until months after the game had already been released in the west.
- Perceivably accessible or not, EOI has a single broken ability. The Untold games are broken by design.
To make sure I'm being as clear as possible: I'm not stating that Immunize isn't broken against direct damage attacks. I'm saying that the game has more than that to kill you. Meanwhile there is absolutely nothing stopping you from trampling all over every boss with damage optimization in the Untold games.
-The final bonus boss of postgame seems tuned assuming you have at least Immunize up at all times, if not boosted - pretty much every strategy I've seen requires it to keep from being overwhelmed by damage. (I would love to hear about/see a fight without an Immunize Medic) On the other hand, I've beaten the bonus bosses in pretty much all the other games using standard parties and none of the x-turn kill gamebreaking options.
It's doable without both Medic and Protector. And the solution is as trivial to figure out as it gets. You can reduce its attack with a Hexer or a Protector's Front Guard/Defender (yes, I'm listing Front Guard because it is better) for the physical skills and use boosted songs for the elemental ones. If you choose to go with the songs, though, you'll have to deal with its berserk AI. Which is actually not too bad, especially if you take advantage of the elemental damage bonuses that you'll get from playing the songs. And dealing with the berserk AI isn't even too bad because of how few and far between the random turns are, considering the kind of team that is able to do it. In this example only one random turn happened (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHpxJwx8J-0)
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Meanwhile there is absolutely nothing stopping you from trampling all over every boss with damage optimization in the Untold games.
and in eo2, 3, and 4; again, this is nothing new. even their postgame superbosses
also Dark Ether is preeetty useful before lategame, where using lv10 skills takes most of your TP pool in a single cast (a lot of the classes have so little TP that you can only cast them a few times even in postgame; it's just easier to use a cheap skill over expensive amritas. and the damage increase from maxing is massive)
anyway isn't this a thlabyrinth thread? I mean we already have an etrian odyssey thread elsewhere on the forum
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anyway isn't this a thlabyrinth thread? I mean we already have an etrian odyssey thread elsewhere on the forum
Absolutely right - apologies for the digression. I'll take this to PMs if you're still interested, Ryin.
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Greetings, everyone. I was almost finish with the game when my main PC got hit with a virus. After moving the files to a different computer, the display looks like this: http://imgur.com/LQjGmBy (http://imgur.com/LQjGmBy). I cannot see each characters' name, skills, or any equipment. I was thinking it was a font problem so I download the fonts off my old computer to the new one but it didn't fix anything. Any help or advice would gladly be appreciated.
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Are you in jp locale? That's usually a thing with japanese games. And yeah, it affects fonts used. ...usually they'll load a backup font, though...
...in other news, holy shit, I revisited the save from my first run just to mess with some stuff (still on 16f on run #2), and uh... I hadn't realized how silly Renko can get. She can easily have as much def/mnd as Rinno/Tenshi and a few times the HP count, or just have more max HP than your entire party combined and still have more def/mnd than a normal bulky attacker would. So then you sub healer for regen I guess? >.> (Or you can be "normal" and just go for double Rinnosuke's def/mnd?) Renko be my waifu
Also I'm debating whether it's worth switching Tenshi for Rinnosuke lategame if it means Iku loses 40% def/mnd in exchange for Rinnosuke being better than Tenshi. Byakuren obsoletes Tenshi's self-buffs but like, Iku's normal attack is savage and speedy, and that bulk is hella. (I -could- go for both but with Renko too and Byakuren out, uh... I don't need a million tanks and I'd only have 5 attackers at that point pfft)
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Got to maribel at reimu 105. explored 20f as much as I can prior to killing her, just have to grind a dozen or so levels then attack her. gonna do that another day though.
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So, after plenty of skill levels in speed and reaching level ~80, 18F has finally become manageable.
... Now to grind until Level 100. Whyyy.
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Scrolling back to December 5th (https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/with_replies), google translate is telling me we might see the plus disk trial version get another release? I'd very much appreciate someone who actually knows it, but that's the best guess I have via machine.
So perhaps we will see more info, idk
(literally gonna be three years for plus disk)
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So, after plenty of skill levels in speed and reaching level ~80, 18F has finally become manageable.
... Now to grind until Level 100. Whyyy.
For toehoe laby 1 rinnosuke?
Ignore wiki level thing. 90s is fine foe him as long as you get past phase 1 without too many down.
I dont even know how you can be under 90 when you reach him unless you run away alot or arent exploring dungeons anyway. Unless you are measuring someone who levels slower than reimu. Reimu is kinda the standard character to state your level on.
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For toehoe laby 1 rinnosuke?
Ignore wiki level thing. 90s is fine foe him as long as you get past phase 1 without too many down.
I dont even know how you can be under 90 when you reach him unless you run away alot or arent exploring dungeons anyway. Unless you are measuring someone who levels slower than reimu. Reimu is kinda the standard character to state your level on.
I know 90 is fine, but I don't wanna have to deal with random encounters again that absolutely murder my party like on 18F. I fully explored every floor (except 8F because I'm so not bothering with that, just got all the events and I was done with that boring as hell floor) and rarely ran away. And 82 is where Reimu is at right now.
Edit:
(http://i.imgur.com/9uCN5GW.png)
Nailed it.
(Also gonna fight Rinnosuke very soon!)
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19f trash actually can be easier than 18f d3pending on your group.
One thing you can notice right away is that most are slower than the relatively fast 18f trash. Even patchy can get the jump on most of em.
Par works more often too.
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Aaaaand Rinnosuke down! That was a pretty fun fight. Elemental forms died really quickly though, I think I dealt +300k damage with one spell to one of them, not sure which one anymore.
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Aaaaand Rinnosuke down! That was a pretty fun fight. Elemental forms died really quickly though, I think I dealt +300k damage with one spell to one of them, not sure which one anymore.
Maste rsparking spirit mode probably does that if not more =P
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http://funkyimg.com/i/25NWt.png
Fight against Tenshi v2.0 F9 (Hard mod)
In my opinion, the most difficult battle in the game that would win.
http://funkyimg.com/i/25NWB.png
Wriggle - Toxicologist
Orin - Hexer
Mokou - I think Monk? (54tp?) Of course you can find the best use of this stone.
Yuugi - Warrior
Meiling+Kasen go into two first slots in the end of the first phase.
Ran + Sanae keep Tenshi is Wriggle throws poison, Orin/Hina do debuffs.
To Ran HP boost is needed (but I did not have it, no Attack debuff Tenshi - she one hit KO)
Once you off MP to heal - switch in Mokou (Tank) and Yugi/Iku.
Iku can do 5k damage, provided that Tenshi hanging least -40% of the mind. You can use it to Speed buff something to hang on Yuugi armor debuff (it still die without a chance) and reduce the amount of buffs on it.
Yuugi will do 0 damage if it does not have at least +50% Attack buff and Tenshi hanging Def buff. Bonus Last Fortess does wonders ... but impossible to get it first, but when you lose most of the characters - you'll be doing a 10k damage.
http://funkyimg.com/i/25NWs.png
Byakuren and Eiki withstand dance with a 90% chance (Do not lost the Ran and Mokou ahead of time)
Hina can immediately debuff any stat Tenshi to -50% (especially cool if you can reduce her speed)
Orin with Extra attacks and Hexer skills may have down sharply Tenshi Def/Mind to -50% and give HVY-status (the only useful status)
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Aaaaand Rinnosuke down! That was a pretty fun fight. Elemental forms died really quickly though, I think I dealt +300k damage with one spell to one of them, not sure which one anymore.
So at which level were you when fighting Rinnosuke? This reminds me of my own LoT1 run a long while ago: I was hoping to defeat the game without any deliberate grinding and it was going very well up until Rinnosuke. I reached him at Reimu Level 84 and got thrashed badly.
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So at which level were you when fighting Rinnosuke? This reminds me of my own LoT1 run a long while ago: I was hoping to defeat the game without any deliberate grinding and it was going very well up until Rinnosuke. I reached him at Reimu Level 84 and got thrashed badly.
He probably should at that level, I don't see how it's possible to be that low when you get to him unless you run alot or skipped alot of exploring. I'm consistently level 92-94ish every time without any grinding.
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Maste rsparking spirit mode probably does that if not more =P
Right, that was it. Marisa had max buffs on her, too.
So at which level were you when fighting Rinnosuke? This reminds me of my own LoT1 run a long while ago: I was hoping to defeat the game without any deliberate grinding and it was going very well up until Rinnosuke. I reached him at Reimu Level 84 and got thrashed badly.
I fought him at Level 95. I can imagine fighting him at a lower level (like 90) would make the fight really close and a bit more luck-based. Pretty sure I only had like, only half of my party left at the end. Or even less, not certain.
He probably should at that level, I don't see how it's possible to be that low when you get to him unless you run alot or skipped alot of exploring. I'm consistently level 92-94ish every time without any grinding.
I mean I guess I did kind of skip 17F because the encounters just kept killing me so I kinda snapped, pfft. And I was kinda low level for the Yukari fight, I was like 75 or something. I really wonder how you can manage to be that high of a level upon reaching 18F/or rather finishing exploring it.
Anyway, 19F encounters are a lot easier. Only annoying things are Solar Demon Kings because of that graphical glitch and the fact that they have way too much HP, and the Truth-Seeing Eyes because they're sorceresses but better. (At least Suwako can oneshot them but I need to get her into the field quick enough for that first...)
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Edit: 20F has been reached! The 19F bosses are pretty easy with the right frontline (... which is basically always Rinnosuke + someone who has high def/mind) EXP is nice, but the whole 0 TP deal for Rinnosuke makes it kinda tedious to level.
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Only annoying things are Solar Demon Kings because of that graphical glitch and the fact that they have way too much HP, and the Truth-Seeing Eyes because they're sorceresses but better
The reason you think they have too much HP/gfx glitching is likely because you don't realize what the dev did is layer like 3 of them ontop of eachother! O: So it's multiple enemies and multi-target attacks work well. (Since that's practically never done in a game, it's pretty understandable to not think of it)
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Yeah, I noticed that as well. Dunno why I called it a graphical glitch there >_>"
Also, it's gonna be a bit annoying to go back a few floors and farm a Blue Saber because I actually managed to get not even a single one the whole time.
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The drop rate is abysmal, was there really not a single chest for it? o.o Maybe normally they're obtained from a 50%+ boss drop or something...
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I was hoping I'd get maybe one from all the 18F grinding (because Gold Knights are on that floor and they have the highest drop rate, 1%... which is still small as heck), but nope. And I've gotten all chests there are up to 20F, and not a single Blue Saber, no. Really annoying...
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Wiki says there's a chest with a blue saber on 15f.
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(http://i.imgur.com/XIckclB.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/cI2ju9G.png)
... :V
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(http://i.imgur.com/VAzxuvQ.png)
:D. Maybe there's nothing there and the wiki is indeed wrong, but I'd check.
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That spot has nothing, you have cleared all the floor, no treasures.
Your only option is:
-Loot the Gold Knights, 1% is very small, but that's your only option if you want it that badly as the other method is more brutal rather than grinding those Gold Knights.
-Obtain it in 21F, which requires 3 stars, and the requirements without hunting for Blue Saber is rather long, as you need to grind in 20F and fight either the Bloodstained Seal bosses or the Ver. 2 bosses.
Good luck.
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(http://i.imgur.com/VAzxuvQ.png)
:D. Maybe there's nothing there and the wiki is indeed wrong, but I'd check.
Eagle eye! .... But sadly, no dice. http://prntscr.com/9irisx Still nice to get a response from the glorious Gesh, though. :'D
Looks like my only option is Gold Knights after all. I'd rather not have to beat all Bloodstained Seal bosses or Ver. 2 before entering 21F. Thanks for the help, though!
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I mean I guess I did kind of skip 17F because the encounters just kept killing me so I kinda snapped, pfft.
Yeah, and it's not like that floor has anything interesting to keep the player's attention, it's just a huge timewaster with encounters you'd rather avoid. Guess that explains why we were both underleveled.
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I could have and should have optimized a bit more for this fight, but I got lucky and didn't need it. So have a shaky Yuugi fight (https://youtu.be/RGJl3CD4vko), both in game and as a video, due to some windows update or something I've been putting off.
The biggest change I'd make if I had to fight Yuugi again, is giving Minoriko Desire to Rest so I don't have to Concentrate on her turns to restore MP quickly.
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I generally don't skip 17f completely because a part of me demands that maps are fully explored =P It's weird because I'm not actually a completionist or perfectionist or anything like that, just kinda ALMOST a completionist, but combined with the fact I have a map fetish in general, I guess that's why I have to do the mapping 100% =P
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Tenshi 9F beaten. The fight was significantly harder than my "Team Unappreciated" run for many reasons. I don't have anyone who can quickly gain buffs to trigger Sword of Hisou. Byakuren, in her current state, is too slow in gaining buffs. Ran's buffs are slower than weaker than Keine in helping Byakuren gaining buffs. As a result, I have decided to ignore the Sword luring tactic and go full offense.
My initial frontlines were Byakuren, Mokou, Maribel and Patchouli. I used Maribel for countering Tenshi's maximized defenses, dealing 2k damage unbuffed. Patchouli alternated between concentration and Princess Undine again (8k per hit) but she was always in a risk of getting hit since Tenshi loved to spam either Shadowstep or Grass Knot, both of which took half of Patchy's HP. Good thing that Patchy is immune to debuffs. Byakuren and Mokou had two duty; tanking/HP regenerating and inflicting ailments with Tenshi. Byakuren could silence her with Star Sword and Mokou inflicts Heavy with Misterepulsion equipped. Suwako could debuff Tenshi's defenses with her Magic spells. Satori also did the same as Suwako. Tenshi was subclassed into a healer. With 1840 Defense, she was in little risk of dying.
Yuugi was definitely the MVP in this fight. She dealt 4k with Supernatural Phenomenon to Tenshi inflicted with Debuff and Heavy. She got her Speed debuffed by Grass Knot quite a few times but I countered it with Byakuren's Duplicating Chant, transferring Byakuren's Speed buffs to Yuugi and nullify the debuff. Byakuren herself was built to be immune to Debuff so she is safe from Grass Knot. Since Heavy is harder to inflict on Tenshi, Mystia had to do the double duty for both inflicting silence and heavy so I subclassed her into a Toxicologist to give her Numbing Incense, which has 100% chance of Heavy.
Sadly, Marisa and Utsuho, who were MVP in my "Team Unappreciated" run, didn't do much in this fight since both lacked good equipment, which were all given to Patchy.
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I generally don't skip 17f completely because a part of me demands that maps are fully explored =P It's weird because I'm not actually a completionist or perfectionist or anything like that, just kinda ALMOST a completionist, but combined with the fact I have a map fetish in general, I guess that's why I have to do the mapping 100% =P
Did you also fully map out 8F? Because... that's crazy.
I mean, I always map out the whole thing as well, 17F I did because I kinda got lost in the teleporter maze but 8F was just too stupid for me.
Also, what's a good level to fight the Final Boss at? 120 or 130?
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I always map out every floor as much as I can before moving on. Except 17F. This run is actually the first time I mapped out 17F at all. (And it was pain beyond measure. Seriously.)
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Did you also fully map out 8F? Because... that's crazy.
I mean, I always map out the whole thing as well, 17F I did because I kinda got lost in the teleporter maze but 8F was just too stupid for me.
Also, what's a good level to fight the Final Boss at? 120 or 130?
120 for LoT1 should be good, you should be able to do the boss rush and Ver 2s too shortly after. Those is more a TP hog than anything.
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>Get a second scourge in way less time than I grinded for Levels on 18F
;_;
Defeated the final boss and Ver. 2 Chen so far. Gonna try the boss rush later after getting some TP boosts in.
Edit: So uh. I ended up doing all of the Ver. 2 bosses and all the bloodstained seals before farming a blue saber after all. So now I might as well just take the one from the chest on 21F.
Whoops.
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I killed the Final Boss Ver. 2 before she used Overflowing Unnatural Power (that is to say, her final phase). That. Is. Glorious.
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Hmmm... Marisa's "master spark deals more damage as you consume more MP" apparently doesn't mind if you double the mp cost with gambler. As far as I could tell you still get the full +60% damage... AND the damage boost from spending that much mp. Of course, hitting 54 mp in the first place is a problem; you're looking at spending 10 MP gems on Marisa and using a Master's Emblem along with your MP boost -and- some MP boosting sub equipment to reach it before final boss time, but it'd get steadily easier in postgame.
At that point the question is how long it takes, even with a speed buff, to regen all that MP after your cast. >_> It's a very long time before you can afford to put on an Orb of Earithin along with a Large Macaron Collider. There's so many other supernukes to use instead of one that takes ten years to recharge. ...I should actually test what it's damage looks like with proper gearing and tweaking up to see if it's high enough to care.
What's funnier is considering using Satori to cast it instead (or just in addition to) because she gets a quarter of her MP back when she goes to the back. She really is tailor-perfect for gambling, albeit your party has to have consistent sources of good moves to copy from either only ATK, or only MAG (or composite, which she wrecks face with. Hi Byakuren!)
edit:Does a bit over twice as much as gambler Flan's Starbow or a pimped out Nitori, and you could use 10 magic gems/Astral Dominae x2/Large Macaron Collider/Orb of Earithin to get Marisa to 8 mp regen and 54 mp at end-postgame level. So like, I guess it's not a bad idea? Gambling about doubles her damage, base master spark isn't really worth it otherwise because there's easier ways to get the damage, and on elements less massively resisted than mystic.
editagain:-Well- actually the fact that it's all target is pretty nice for something of it's ridiculous power. I guess that's Master Spark's real specialty.
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I would like to ask how to download the cheat table. On first page i clicked the link, then it shows me a message without any link to download it?
Btw, i'm new to this game so i'm not familiar with the mechanics. I know my question might be answered somewhere in one of 15 threads but i can't read all of them without an archive version or searching function. Firstly, how does item drop rate bonus works? If i have 100% bonus, drop chance 2.5% then i'll have 5% chance right? Then again i have max item weekly (40%), Rinnosuke lv10 skill (40%) and chain battle bonus (100%). At the reward screen it says 165%. Why?
Someone mentioned Parsee is good, but i don't understand how TRR works. Wiki says "Enemies have all stats reduced slightly." How much is slightly?
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Your interpretation of item drop rate is correct. Rinnosuke's is weaker unless he's in the front row though, and... did you hack your item weeklys or something because there isn't nearly that many in the game right now? It might be possible the number caps at 165%. As for what that means for drop rate, it's 2.65x the normal drop rate, pretty much. (100% base rate plus 165% bonus)
Off the JP wiki, Terror is all stats down 5%, which is pretty little. The point of Terror is more to enable Kogasa and Parsee's special skills, and to enable other passives like Final Blow (which is a large damage boost on enemies with any ailments). Parsee's Jealousy of Kind and Lovely only hits on terrified enemies, and especially with her skills Final Blow and her drk-damage booster, it does incredible damage. Parsee is still pretty good apart from that because her MND is insanely high and Small Box Large Box is really good, doing nice damage normally and variably up to like double that much (esp. when maxed). A good candidate for an Attack Boost tome later when you've got the spare skillpoints, since her base stat is actually sorta low but she's an awesome attacker despite it.
In other news, based on my current play... yeah, Hina makes the game incredibly easier with her ridiculous debuff, similar to how Byakuren's ridiculous buff makes the game much easier. You kind of need it for later-postgame to be reasonable, though... I can only wonder what Plus Disk is going to throw at us. o.o (And, Eirin probably counts as ridiculous too. Her Healer-class overheal at ~lv100 can easily heal over 20k. Which is like 4x what your more tanky units should have. It makes it SORTA HARD TO DIE.)
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Your interpretation of item drop rate is correct. Rinnosuke's is weaker unless he's in the front row though, and... did you hack your item weeklys or something because there isn't nearly that many in the game right now? It might be possible the number caps at 165%. As for what that means for drop rate, it's 2.65x the normal drop rate, pretty much. (100% base rate plus 165% bonus)
Yeah i hacked max item weekly just to see how high i can achieve. I put Rinnosuke in reserve then i have 135% total. Still smaller than what i expect, i.e 140% from chain battle and item weekly. So i don't think 165% is the cap, but rather something wrong with item weekly cap. Maybe it's 25% instead of 40%.
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I wouldn't be too surprised since there isn't even enough in the game yet to get to such a cap :V We'll see in Plus tho
Nazrin also has a drop rate increasing passive. And it's easy to test the weeklies by just seeing what you have without hackmaxing the battle bonus or having nazrin/rinno in the party, so it's basically only the weeklies.
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Can i speed the game up somehow? This is the first time i've seen speedhack in cheat engine not working. The game just plays so slowly esp changing screen it's frustrating.
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Can i speed the game up somehow? This is the first time i've seen speedhack in cheat engine not working. The game just plays so slowly esp changing screen it's frustrating.
I stumbled upon this by accident, but I use a 144Hz monitor and quickly realized that the speed of the game is tied to refresh rate. See if you have higher refresh rate options on your monitor, that'll help a bit.
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I stumbled upon this by accident, but I use a 144Hz monitor and quickly realized that the speed of the game is tied to refresh rate. See if you have higher refresh rate options on your monitor, that'll help a bit.
Unfortunately no, i'm playing on my old laptop so the highest is just 66hz. I mean, it's not like my spec is low, i'm playing at 60 fps but somehow "normal speed" of this game is still slow and can't speed hack. For example, if i use 2x speed, fps dropped to 30 and the speed stays the same.
Btw, i'm using save file with all chars for 1.203 but i don't see Maribel and Renko?
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That save file doesn't unlock Maribel and Renko, I actually tried making a file that also unlocked them but it introduces so many balance problems (such as giving you a bunch of money because of achievements) that I gave up. You can actually make it so that the achievement is already counted as collected, and you don't get the money from it at all, but that also means you can never get it. It's weird.
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That save file doesn't unlock Maribel and Renko, I actually tried making a file that also unlocked them but it introduces so many balance problems (such as giving you a bunch of money because of achievements) that I gave up. You can actually make it so that the achievement is already counted as collected, and you don't get the money from it at all, but that also means you can never get it. It's weird.
I see, thanks for the info. Do you think any of them actually worth using? Renko got nerfed kinda hard and Maribel is ok with that bypass buff skill, but Satori gets it too.
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Beat Yuuka after several tries. Gensokyo's Reflowering is BS. Also, Renko was the only reason I won that fight because I managed to get a lucky speed debuff on her before she focused. Never. Again.
I see, thanks for the info. Do you think any of them actually worth using? Renko got nerfed kinda hard and Maribel is ok with that bypass buff skill, but Satori gets it too.
Renko has Maintenance, which is up there with the best skills in the game. Easygoing is kind of weak if you give her a first aid kit because of maintenance, but the ailment resistance skills provide a neat bonus. She's still a great support option even if she no longer has debilitate. If you want debuffs, you could always subclass her as Hexer, and Enhancer weakens the damage dealt with Charge. Never tried Toxicologist, but I can see it working if Galaxy Stop is useful on the enemy you're facing.
I'm not sure about how good Maribel is, I never really used her that much, but I don't think she's anything that impressive. She has the only non-elemental spell in the game and Mari's DIY Barrier could be neat with the Damage Amp and Heal for everyone, but I'm not certain.
Again, Renko is still worth using, definitely.
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Beat Yuuka after several tries. Gensokyo's Reflowering is BS. Also, Renko was the only reason I won that fight because I managed to get a lucky speed debuff on her before she focused. Never. Again.
Again, Renko is still worth using, definitely.
That actually sounds tempting to try Renko. But as i asked before, the save with all char does not include Renko and Maribel. So how could you used her in Yuuka's fight?
And there are 6 pages of Subequipments on the wiki, but why do i see only 5 pages in game (ver 1.203)?
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I see, thanks for the info. Do you think any of them actually worth using? Renko got nerfed kinda hard and Maribel is ok with that bypass buff skill, but Satori gets it too.
Renko is the best tank in the game.
Mari's damage dealing is decent in fights where she can exploit her buff-ignoring skill or if your team is light on buffs. Otherwise, her best role is probably Boosting everyone else, minor AOE healing and making Renko even more invincible by existing.
And there are 6 pages of Subequipments on the wiki, but why do i see only 5 pages in game (ver 1.203)?
Page 6 opens up once you get an item from that page, if I recall correctly. It's not visible at the start since it holds postgame equips.
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That actually sounds tempting to try Renko. But as i asked before, the save with all char does not include Renko and Maribel. So how could you used her in Yuuka's fight?
And there are 6 pages of Subequipments on the wiki, but why do i see only 5 pages in game (ver 1.203)?
I was talking about the first game.
Also, the sixth page of equipments unlocks with entering the post-game.
Renko is the best tank in the game.
I agree with this. (If you put enough points into her and give her the right equip + Maintenance) Just simply the fact that she doubles the effectiveness of Affinity gear makes her amazing. I remember tanking Sword of Hisou's in the Tenshi fight.
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Given how overpowered items in this game are, i agree maintenance is just broken. There are items that give you a chance to double damage/receive 0 damage. Do you think maintenance also double this chance to trigger?
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Maintennance does not work on %age effects and other weird things. +Exp%, +money%, +damage dealt or lowered taken%, +elemental%, and the random chance effects shouldn't be boosted. Stats, affinities, resistances, and hp/mp recovery is godly enough anyway.
Renko can have utterly insane stats and honestly her amazing synergy with Maribel is the biggest motivation to use Maribel. (In postgame several bosses can clear your buffs off, too, so Charge is pretty great to have... probably with enhancer to lower the party damage.) However, I was thinking about Maribel, and I think she has enough random somewhat useful junk that she can be a decent member; liberated abilities for randoms, quadruple border has a lot of statuses, activating Renko's synergy is awesome, she can instantly be at about-full buffs and has great passives, and she's got a multiheal with bonus effects on it. (Unfortunately, she has to be in a full MAG build for the heal to be good, so you can't just make her your party's healer; it's around the ballpark of ~16% MAG, which is like half the power of Rumia's, which is half the power of Reimu's.)
She does have a way to make her a good damage dealer, though; take advantage of the fact that she has MP regen with Renko, Great Incantation, and Rapid Charge all on the same character, and sub her with Gambler just for double mp costs (not the double damage passive), and she can get the +60% damage without even caring about the mp costs. It makes it more awkward to use her support skills occasionally, though. Gambler does not boost heal amounts.
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I haven't really use Maribel in my draft run outside of locking down bosses with Shock. (Patchouli is still too good) She's kinda so-so if she is alone. At least she is good when the boss I'm fighting resists all of my attackers' elements or when enemies often dodge my attacks. She is actually good during mid-game where she can level up her necessary skills; Max level Overflowing Unnatural Power, Ability to Meddle with Boundaries and Grand Incantation.
Maribel's levelled DIY Barrier works like a poor man's LoT1 Demarcation. Her anti-buff spell sounds awesome on paper but really sucks. It doesn't really work well with bosses that doesn't consistently buffs itself. Hina will cast Biorythm whenever she feels like it. Tenshi only cast buffs twice in the battle. The same goes for the Giant. Remilia might be the best one to counter. Her Curse of Vlad Tepes buffs herself by a large amount and she seems to use it quite often.
P.S. I just test it. Maribel's DIY's healing skill really scales from her MAG. unbuffed Maribel heals about 1/4 HP while max buffed Maribel heals about 1/2 HP. So, she's kinda like Lot1 Rumia. She has to be buffed to be effective.
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Perhaps the biggest issue with Maribel is that the stat boost from Sealing Club doesn't actually work. You can go to 1F and look at your damage or healing numbers, and switch Renko in or out, and you get just about the exact same number. It still gives you HP/MP regen, at least, but... losing literally a quarter of your stats is pretty harmful, especially in a game using subtraction formulas. And since Renko is an amazing tank, yeah, you'd be expecting to have Mari's bonuses pretty often. (Renko would be even more OP if they worked, but, maintennance just needs a nerf. Like 1.5x stat boosts instead of 2x? Round up on .5s? Nitori is crazy OP too because of it.)
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Has there been anything else on 3peso's twitter about publicly releasing the expansion trial?
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Jeez, when I look over characters again, it's interesting how flexible they are.
In that literally everyone can be applied offensively if you want to. Only very few of them still aren't that good in all but the best conditions (Cirno is great at randoms, but won't do much to bosses if you aren't fielding all of team 9, and -Renko- can put out good numbers but Galaxy Stop eating your ATB is simply not worth it unless you're getting PAR/SHK) but even the "obvious support characters" like Reimu, Keine, Minoriko, Sanae, and Tenshi are all very capable offensively, even versus bosses, in the right builds.
Reimu's damage is actually pretty solid with Grand Incantation if you pamper her composite formula (And with Rumia as MT heal backup, you can afford to build her offensively), Keine can hit 20 base magic with Mokou out (and Mokou is a solid tanker, especially with Keine out, as much as I'd normally favor gambler mokou I think), Minoriko subbed Sorceress can have perpetual 100% magic buff to help overcome her low base MAG and she can easily shoulder the Youkai Medal Shattering Axe's mp penalty and Desire to Rest lets even Warm Colour Harvest turn into an easy attack later, and Sanae's cheap attacks and potential 4 base mp regen lets her EASILY sub gambler for double mp cost and not care, becoming a surprisingly capable bulky attacker if you want to assemble Team Moriya or keep using her after Byakuren overtakes her role. And Tenshi simply has well-above-average damage formulas on all her attacks that can be well taken advantage of... especially if Iku is out to give her 30% more attack and propel her to top-class bulky attacker.
edit: I was thinking of making a few changes to the wiki page for LoT2. Namely, the attack formulas; I looked it though, and every skill increases in damage by 5% per skill level. Therefore, the current bloated damage formulas aren't necessary; not only would they be easier to tell at a glance with the neat Lv1 proportions (They're all things like 150% x 150% instead of 150% x 1.425 + 0.075 SkLv) but they could be further simplified to the LoT1 wiki chart forms. That is, rather than ((88% ATK) - (50% T.DEF)) * (3.135 + (0.165 * Slv)) for Killing Doll, it'd be 290.4% ATK - 165% DEF. Also, the Level/Level Cost section could be completely removed; all innate character spellcards are 5/5 without exception, and all subclass skills (where I probably WOULD leave it in for clarification purposes) are 5/3. On skills that ignore some defenses in their formula I'd probably state the low def factor in the Notes section.
Since Level/Cost is already there though, maybe I'd replace it with "Level Bonus" listing the 5% damage bonus for clarity, though. (5% * Slv - 1) DMG Up? Any concise way to do it feels clunky. It'd be slightly easier without accounting for lv1 being factored into the damage formula already, but every single move is going to have weird numbers if I list lv0 damage formulas; they're almost all neat things like (160% - 50%) * 120% at lv1, but screwy at lv0. Might just be easier to list a disclaimer at the top of each page; "Each attack gains +5% damage per skill level. Listed damage formulas are for Skill Level 1." Maybe add a blurb about 5/5 level/cost and subclass difference while I'm at it.)
I also would like to add the cost of library levels to their stat charts, as it's a fairly relevant bit of info. I'd take the value for Affinity increases at lv1, as affinity is proportional to the base stat cost (tested) and the larger number is much better at showing the difference; otherwise I'd be pulling it from stat lv10. You only couldn't do this in LoT1 because it varied for every stat per person, making listing them unrealistic and not worth it, but now it's pretty stable and tangible and makes a significant difference in stats endgame; Rumia's costs at Lv200 are ~equal to Yukari's costs at Lv150. FIRST THOUGH, I'll be testing whether it's directly proportionate to their exp levelup difficulty, since I wouldn't want to be redundant for that much effort. I'm just too lazy to look that up before work atm. Edit:It's not directly proportionate; Nitori (53) has more expensive library levels than Youmu (60), although overall it tends to give you a decent idea of where they are on the spectrum. I would probably add "Library Cost" directly below Level Up Difficulty in it's little color cube.
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There's a ton of things that could be changed about the LoT2 wiki but I've lost most of my drive to go back and make those changes. Like I'd literally want to redo all the main game bosses sections thanks to that large balance patch that happened awhile ago but its hard when I'm not going through the bosses blind. When I was going through the game the first time, it was easier taking notes on things that happened in the fight since everything was unknown.
Along with the fact that a majority of the boss info is heavily biased towards characters I was familiar with / used at the time. The damage formulas are clunky but the fact that they scale with level makes it annoying to simplify the damage formula like it was done for LoT1. Its a lot of repetitive math for very little pay off.
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Eh, simplifying the damage formula is pretty simple. They all go up 5%-end-damage per level so... you simplify it by just not scaling it at all and listing the lv1 formula and saying somewhere it's 5% damage per level. XD It's not worth it and only makes things less clear, not more clear. I'll do it myself sometime soon (we'll see whether it's today or tomorrow), although I'm probably not gonna end up touching most of the boss sections, and we'll see how many character play notes sections I actually go through. (Most of those were also written before the balance patch tweaked some stats, like giving Rumia a lot more MND and Meiling a lot more ATK, as well as in general more strats coming to light over time)
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(Most of those were also written before the balance patch tweaked some stats, like giving Rumia a lot more MND and Meiling a lot more ATK, as well as in general more strats coming to light over time)
Oh, was there a patch? Because I recently started a new game and discovered that Meiling outdamages Remilia. And discovered that's true at Lv180 or so as well. Remilia is still faster, but mountain breaker's vastly superior formula means that each individual hit will always outdamage gungnir at equivalent experience levels.
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Meiling is a godly bulky attacker now from the moment you get her, yes. And that's even without the +40% speed on one of her passives (as it's nonfunctional), and the SDM's stat boost passive doesn't boost speed either right now according to the wiki. Jeez Meiling, plz. :V I sorta want to just sub her Magician to keep her MP up; she's crazy durable and does crazy damage that's highly stable due to Mountain Breaker's formula, can self-heal, etc, I only really switch her out if she's out of MP. Even Brilliant Light Gem is really useful a decent amount of the time.
Meiling is still MVP in thlaby2, but not as a tank, who would have guessed?
Anyway about stats, I don't remember which patch it was, but it was along with a lot of other stuff, e.g. it was in the rush of patches shortly after game release. A looot of people got minorly increased stats, a few people got significantly increased stats, like I think maybe... Kogasa Momiji Rumia Meiling Cirno Wriggle? but anyway it was forever ago at this point, it's hard to remember.
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That sounds about right, I remember Team 9 got quality of life stat tweaks. I think Kogasa got some ATK, so she'll probably do better at end game. I think Momiji also got some ATK.
And yeah Meiling is freaking ridiculous. My Meiling is full tank and she's still doing respectable damage with Mountain Breaker. Also, why sub her Magician when someone else can use it to give Meiling the MP?
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What, use Magic Transfer? That seems like a waste of turns. 3 mp to three other people with a huge delay? That's a piddly amount with a lot of drawback and uses a precious frontrow slot; meanwhile, if Meiling subs it, her attack costs are cut by a third or even by half depending on move (as well as any turns she switches someone or whatever is gain), if someone dies she gets a big chunk back (which she'll likely be present for given she's often out), and sometimes she'll get free casts. Casting Magic Circuit would be okay since it's a net gain, I guess; if anything, it'd probably just be a use for the possible turn(s) before Byakuren throws the superbuff on her or it's worn down too much to warrant spending mp attacking.
I don't really find Magic Transfer to be worth the effort it takes to cast, but magician's other stuff can be fairly nice in certain situations. Meiling doesn't really need anything from a subclass, so if what I need the most is for her to stop running out of MP and having to retreat to the back, it works wonders on her cheap moves. <3 (Regardless of the fact that I think all the high-mp-regen support-capable characters suited for Magician are better off in other subclasses or roles)
Yeah, Kogasa got some atk. I think her def wasn't as high before the change, either, same for Momiji (damn those stats are nice, but endgame the other tanks just have too much utility use to outcompete). Tank Kogasa is an amusing, if somewhat silly build for trying to enable Parsee or otherwise taking advantage of Sheer Force and her... surprisingly tank-friendly passive skills like Easygoing and Heart of Perseverance.
edit:Okay, Magic Circuit-ing Meiling with a magician doesn't sound so bad, actually. :T I could just throw it on Hina or something since she's regularly switched in and her Hexer subclass isn't honestly all that important, albeit nice. I might do that. Maybe. I mean, she could pop one on Byakuren while she's at it. And maybe cast Transfer on the turn right before she switches out. GDI (Also, no, Byakuren doesn't copy magic circuit along with buffs.) Otherwise I guess it could go on Reimu but that's pretty clunky. (Man, it's weird to think that I rarely even -use- Reimu. Eirin's overhealing and Meiling's surprisingly powerful Healer skill when atk-built sort of cover it. Maybe I should dump her for someone else. Although I might just reserve it for "plus disk character slot" since I'm already postgame... plus I might need her eventually. :T)
Eirin subbed as Healer is insane, by the way. Why am I even equipping megaspheres when she heals for more than four times the tanky people's max hp? Byakuren, Eirin, and Hina sort of trivialize the matters of buffs, debuffs, and hp.
edit:DOIN' IT, REPLACING REIMU WITH OFFENSE-BUILD SORCEROR MINORIKO B)
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Yeah I was mainly talking about Magic Circuit but Magic Transfer soooo great, especially for stay in attackers. Too bad my only stay in attacker now is Yuuka and her MP pool is so high compared to Flower Shot's costs and tack on Gensokyo's Eternal Flower and I almost never have to worry about her MP. When I WOULD have to worry about it, I'm almost better off just concentrating and letting Extra Attack do the MP recovery for me.
Magician Minoriko - Magic Transfer then tank swaps her out, with Desire to Rest recovering all MP used up. Tank is on Formation Change duty anyway so I don't really feel the drawbacks. Not sure why Frontrow slots are precious, but I guess its because I primarily run Tank, Offtank, Support, Nuker.
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In ThLaby1 I generally did that (Tank/Offtank/Support/Offense), but in 2 as soon as I get Byakuren (and with how many more bulky attackers the game has in general, not that I don't still totally have two glass cannons and Shiki/Nitori usually needing swapouts even built bulkily) I tend to have like, Support Attacker Attacker Attacker or S/S/A/A. My second party sort of wrecked everything in half. >_> I haven't fought the harder postgame bosses yet though due to laziness, but I killed the first two MariRenko bosses first try, when dear god the first one I had to go like 30 levels over for on my first play. But to be fair, since it regenerates it's somewhat based off who your attackers are as you need burst damage.
And I'm mostly just using offense minoriko because she's cute, opposed to the rest of my highly efficient party ;_; (However, she does legitimately work better than you'd think offensively; she only has about 15% less MAG than my Kasen's ATK [from playsave #1 testing, not my current party actually >>] with no gem boost investment and that's overcome by her permanent +100% MAG buff, with sweet passives in general and solid moves.)
edit:Huh, I couldn't find a wiki account for me when I went to change the Laby2 damage formulas... maybe back when I had been editing ThLaby1 pages one wasn't required. I think it -was- after the move, but I'm not certain about that either, TBH. Well, I requested one now :V
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SO HEY
THERE'S A PLUS DISK WEB TRIAL NOW (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/)
You do need the files from the original Labyrinth 2, so it seems like it's easier to just put everything into your existing LoT2 folder and then play it.
edit: also, there is music! it just starts out being really turned down in-game for some reason.
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Holy crud finally! Now we can actually get some data about it and the new characters :D
edit:There's a huge changelist on the website itself. For example,
>Byakuren's Duplicating Scroll... now gives 56% of her buffs out at max level, which means she no longer UTTERLY DOMINATES buffing territory :V It's a little stronger than, say, Miracle Fruits, and she's bulkier, but it's definitely no longer an end-all-be-all.
>Cat's Walk has more delay, but more power
>Gambler subclass has been nerfed
>Flandre was buffed because WHY??? Why does she pierce defense now too? I mean holy shit she was already godly. Forbidden Fruits needed the buff it got but Starbow Break, jeez.
>Utsuho's Giga Flare and Hell's Tokamak were buffed, which is good because she was underwhelming. Also Yuugi's Knockout in Three Steps and something else?
>Some people have raised base stats (it doesn't say who)
>Some people have new skills entirely! I'm just going to copy-paste this because I don't know what a few of them are and the others are obvious. When someone better at reading JP wants to talk about these they can look for them ingame instead, after all.
"* "Ever-changing ghost defense" is added to the blue possession skill.
* "Lightning fish" is added to the possession skill of koromoku.
* "Jack and the RUDOBIRE" are added to the possession skill at Saki night.
* "Defence of the god of treasure and wisdom" "defence of the god of treasure and gale" are added to the possession skill of NAZURIN.
* "Doll mobile improvement" is added to Alice's possession skill.
* "Blizzard violent wind Buddhist rite of scattering flowers" is added to the possession skill of CHIRUNO.
* "The celestial being who stands" is added to the emperor's possession skill.
edit again:As far as I can tell, these are all PASSIVE skills, by the way. I'm looking ingame. I have no idea what they do because I can't moonrunes
There's other cool stuff, but this is the most obvious and drawing, apart from the obvious "new game content and characters". There's also a new subclass, and Akyu has a shop for the special-use-at-hakurei-shrine items, but I don't know the currency; not the standard game currency as I only has "1".
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http://i.imgur.com/e5lnTfB.png
Well that was unexpected. I think people know most of these, but here's the album. Only 7, oddly.
http://imgur.com/a/NxDdw
No, there isn't going to be a translation project for the trial.
Meiling doesn't really need anything from a subclass
She has a good formula on mountain breaker and really good level up speed. Which means she would benefit better than most from the base-atk increase from warrior or transcendent
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I imagine the 8th will be unlocked too far in for the demo. But yeah, that's... interesting.
Sealing Club stat boost still doesn't work. Lel. :I Not going to bother checking all the previously existing bugs, though.
By the way, for those looking to play the trial; the new content is near the entrance point on 1F, not around 21F.
edit:Holy shit, there's -SIX- new pages of sub equips. And one of main equips.
About Meiling, her base attack is 12.8 and Mountain Breaker trivially overcomes most DEF; the base attack up is nice, but it's not super necessary, unlike say Mystia who has 10.4 and moves that are bad at piercing DEF but have high potential damage. Transcendant is great for bulky attackers as usual and Warrior/Monk are always nice, but she doesn't need subs nearly as bad as some other people, so she can afford to go for mp. But yeah, probably best to Magic Circuit her with someone else instead so she can reap some stat benefits.
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Holy shit is that Tokiko? I would have never ever pegged Tokiko as one of the newcomers. Wow.
Also, yeah, I imagine anyone besides these seven isn't in the demo areas, so they've been left out to keep them a surprise for the final release. (Alternatively, maybe Akyuu is it... who knows)
...Although thinking of it, there's no guarantee we'll actually unlock all of them in the trial. Some of them may simply appear for events alone.
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Holy shit is that Tokiko? I would have never ever pegged Tokiko as one of the newcomers. Wow.
Also, yeah, I imagine anyone besides these seven isn't in the demo areas, so they've been left out to keep them a surprise for the final release. (Alternatively, maybe Akyuu is it... who knows)
...Although thinking of it, there's no guarantee we'll actually unlock all of them in the trial. Some of them may simply appear for events alone.
Well, I recall the first demo having a complete list of the final cast (albeit without the actual portraits). So unless he realized how easy it is for me to peek inside, I can't imagine him deliberately wanting to keep files out.
Also is anyone else not getting any sound at all with the trial?
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There's sound, it's just really, really low for some reason. If you go in the options and crank up BGM and SE by a lot you should get proper sound.
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Seriously, how many years will it take to make this plus disk!? It's crazy!!
(Quivering voice) One year of that is due to DQ10/FF14 actually.
Labyrinth of Touhou 2 Plus Disk - Web Trial Version
(links)
The main story of "Labyrinth of Touhou 2" needs to be cleared to play the contents of the Plus Disk.
Save data from the web trial version will be transferrable to the full version "Labyrinth of Touhou 2 Plus Disk" when it is released at a later date.
If you use "Labyrinth of Touhou 2" save data with the "Labyrinth of Touhou 2 Plus Disk Web Trial", the data will be modified to a Plus Disk version, and will not be usable by "Labyrinth of Touhou 2" anymore.
Although it may be a bit of a pain, it is strongly recommended you make a backup of the "Labyrinth of Touhou 2" game folder before playing the Plus Disk Web Trial version.
Once the "Labyrinth of Touhou 2 Plus Disk Web Trial" is installed, the following will be added to the game:
-The story for postgame is added, along with a new stratum "Great Tree Depths".
-New postgame subclasses and a few new characters are added.
-New postgame main equipment, sub equipment, materials and special items are added.
-A new function "Endless Jewels Trading Post" is added to "Akyu's House".
-Improved versions of stat-boosting items and items giving stat-boost skills are added.
-New achievements related to Plus Disk are added.
The following changes are also made to certain characters, spellcards, and other miscellany:
-Certain bosses and FOEs have been slightly modified.
-Flan's base SPD stat has been reduced.
-Fast Dash's activation rate reduces from 50% to 40%.
-Spellcard "Sutra - Duplicating Chant" effect is changed to the following: "Gives (36 + SLv*4)% of the user's buffs to the target."
-Skill "Myouren Temple Personnel" effect is changed to the following: "When the user takes a turn, receive the effects of all Sutra skills that Byakuren has learnt."
-Spellcard "Cats Walk" gauge consumption and power have been slightly increased.
-Subclass "Gambler" skill effects have been largely reduced.
(I'm really sorry! But this subclass is the reason why it was so hard to balance the game!)
-Spellcard "Starbow Break" gauge consumption has been reduced, and it now ignores 40% of the enemy's DEF.
-Spellcard "Forbidden Fruit" gauge consumption has been reduced, power has been increased, and it now ignores 40% of the enemy's MND.
-Spellcard "Laveatein" gauge consumption has been increased, power has been reduced, drawbacks after use have been reduced.
-Spellcard "Divine Grandson's Advent" MP cost changed from 5 to 6.
-Subclass Spell "Healing Prayer" heal strength has been reduced.
-Spellcard "Diamond Blizzard" paralysis effect increased.
-Spellcards "Supernatural Phenomenon" and "Knockout in Three Steps" power have been increased.
-Spellcard "Giga Flare" power, damage multiplier, MP consumption and gauge consumption have all been increased.
-Spellcard "Hell's Tokamak" damage multiplier increased.
-New Skill for Ran: "Shikigami Defense".
-New Skill for Iku: "Lightning Fish".
-New Skill for Sakuya: "Jack the Ludo Bile"
-New Skills for Nazrin: "Bishamonten's Blessing - Wisdom" and "Bishamonten's Blessing - Gale".
-New Skill for Alice: "Enhanced Doll Mobility".
-New SKill for Cirno: "Blizzard Blowout".
-New Skill for Tenshi: "Enduring Celestial".
-There may be certain characters who've had their base stats slightly tinkered with, maybe. (I forgot to note them down)
The full version of Plus Disk is planned to have the following features:
-Improved subclasses that cannot be given to multiple characters at the same time.
-Expansions to the above-ground stratums of the Great Tree.
-New custom skills unlocked for each character as progress is made through the "Endless Corridor".
-The new custom skills are quite powerful, but also cost lots of skill points. Examples are as follows:
Reimu: "A special counter increases when the user takes a turn. Upon each turn, all of the user's stats increases by Counter*5%, and all of the other frontliner's SPD increases by Counter*3%."
Reimu: "Adds a medium power and accuracy paralysis effect to all multi-target spellcards. The effect stacks with spellcards that already have a paralysis effect."
Marisa: "A special counter increases when the user takes a turn on the frontlines or the backlines. Gives an "Increases damage permanently by Counter *3%" effect to the user." [Translator's note: I asssume this is for that battle only]
Marisa: "Recovers HP and MP when Magic Missile is used, proportional to damage dealt. Max MP recovery per use is 7."
Many apologies for the long, long wait...
We'll do our very best to get the full version out as fast as possible, and ensure it's as good as possible.
Not in a position to actually run the trial and translate the descriptions of the new skills/other stuff right now. Maybe tomorrow if no one's done it by then.
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Well, given my save data for my game got deleted before, I have a reason to re-run my Team 9 run for this (because seriously I loved that run and want to go into the Plus Disk content with them too. :V).
I did a little data mining myself, and it seems that the eighth character will be Akyuu
. So that's a thing.
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Awesome, Deranged. And, hah, sounds like Eirin will be less OP now as well (along with Byakuren) due to Healer subclass being nerfed, which is for the best. I'm sure the spell still heals fine, but it doesn't need to heal 4x your tanky character's max hp. XD edit:Yeah, Healer Eirin is still sorta OP (you can expect to heal nearly double most of your durable character's max hp still with decent buffs on) but it's not... quite as nuts.
...Byakuren's nerf is going to necessitate redesign for a lot of people's parties, I imagine. As soon as you got her all your buffing skills became mostly obsolete. >.> But that's no longer true.
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There's a new version uploaded; this one fixes a bug on B2F where one of the bosses will never attack, freezing the battle.
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I looked at a lot of character's base stats, but so far the only one I saw to have changed was Flandre getting 1.2 more magic and losing 0.5 speed. Of course, I've only looked at maybe a quarter of the characters, I suppose...
Also, Gambler is now +24% damage for doubling mp, and +16% for doubling damage taken. Transcendant and Warrior/Sorceror are... pretty decent looking alternatives even for glass cannons, now, and non-glass cannons will never again consider gambling just for double mp damage up. XD
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Oh my god, FINALLY. I only played like, one dungeon dive in and fought the first boss and explored some but I'm already in love. Also the newcomers are awesome.
Meh on Tokiko, the rest are nice. I would've preferred someone like Medicine, honestly. Or a Character from 14/15, but eh.
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Oh man, it's been a while since I played this. Now, to find those extra floors... Since I saw someone calling them B1 (and so on and so forth) floors, I'm going to start on floor 1...
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Akyuu has a neww option at her house... What does it do???
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Something about trading for the items you can use at the Hakurei Shrine (tomes for stat boosts, gems, etc) but I don't know what the currency is.
Meanwhile, I applied my changes to the first two character pages of the wiki:Library costs added and spell formulas revised. If your resolution is wide enough they should fit very neatly and almost all of them in one line (or designed to be very neatly in two, unless you're like CONFINES OF AVICI that took some tweaking oh man), but uh, that's variable... someone with lower resolution (I am, admittedly, using 1600 x 900 so non-widescreen people are common <.<) can tell me if something looks -really- weird and inconsistent, and should be changed.
The rest will come later because it actually sorta takes awhile, due to line width testing to make it all fit on one line and look nice. Page #2 took well over an hour, granted I'm doing something else at the same time.
sorta wondering if maybe I should round the decimals, but I probably won't. Even if 209.92% ATK - 67.5% DEF looks slightly weird.
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Demo's pretty short, but eh, it was to be expected
The trial ends after beating Mamizou on B3 (once you use the stairs behind her). From what I can tell, we can only recruit her. We encounter Koishi and start collecting what I can guess is pieces of the pagoda and Kokoro's masks.
Something about trading for the items you can use at the Hakurei Shrine (tomes for stat boosts, gems, etc) but I don't know what the currency is.
You can get treasure keys, stat orbs, manuals, a few equipements, and others. I got the currency from killing bosses if I recall correctly.
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If you're wondering who the 8th new character is...
http://i65.tinypic.com/ej0wi.png
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Does anybody know what are the requirement to fight the boss in B1 that has Lv.217 ?
And man all the enemies are hard to deal. The plus disk is so promising~!
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As far as I can determine, the requirement is to beat 16 of the shadow dopplegangers. It's not doable in the trial.
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If you're wondering who the 8th new character is...
http://i65.tinypic.com/ej0wi.png
What? How..?
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Dunno. Just like when the base game came out, I simply hacked myself all the characters. No idea how you unlock her.
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What? How..?
I did a little data mining myself, and it seems that the eighth character will be Akyuu
. So that's a thing.
Going to guess that it's just like Nitori and Rinnosuke and she just decides to come along with you even though she runs one of the "town services"
This also explains why qaz couldn't find an eighth character portrait: none exists in img3, it already was in img1 so there was no need to include it a second time.
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If you datamined to unlock all the characters, do they all already have full skillsets? O: If anyone other than mamizou does (or really even if she does, I'm not planning on actually playing through the trial to unlock her) I'm interested in the save for looking through it. And/or for putting tentative character data on the wiki. C:
Edit:Hmm... I didn't think of this before. Guardian's Shield Bash actually carries a very accurate SHK. If Kogasa was using it with Sheer Force, it might really be worth something...
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Going to guess that it's just like Nitori and Rinnosuke and she just decides to come along with you even though she runs one of the "town services"
This also explains why qaz couldn't find an eighth character portrait: none exists in img3, it already was in img1 so there was no need to include it a second time.
Oh whoops, I didn't even see your post. Sorry!
If you datamined to unlock all the characters, do they all already have full skillsets? O: If anyone other than mamizou does (or really even if she does, I'm not planning on actually playing through the trial to unlock her) I'm interested in the save for looking through it. And/or for putting tentative character data on the wiki. C:
I believe so. I can take a look tonight.
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I just found an enemy that escaped and my game crashed... :/
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I checked the website, and there's another new trial version up (C). According to 3peso's twitter, apparently that's the bug it fixes.
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Imma wait until a translation and a bit more in-depth information on how to unlock the other characters is in place.
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If you're wondering who the 8th new character is...
http://i65.tinypic.com/ej0wi.png
Want.
On a sorta unrelated note. Any idea why the party suddenly goes underground?
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Gah Aya nerfs and Healer subclass nerfs...
I actually don't think Byakuren's new skill is necessarily a nerf. Since it doesn't seem to copy buffs but give the recipient a percentage of her own, at 100% she's still giving people Charge levels of buffing but to a single person and without the draw back and delay. No more "here have maxed buffs" but its still strong enough to trivialize most buffing needs. That said, post game has taught me that keeping Sanae around and bringing in Renko was a good idea.
Flandre being buffed has all my "wut". I get that they want her to still do close to the damage numbers people were used to with old Gambler Flan but those buffs are insane.
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So been out of the loop for a while, but I see the Web Trial's here.
And buffs and nerfs and all that happened. Any nerf to Diva Aya?
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Hrm, I see; Byakuren's doesn't copy her buffs anymore rather than act as a buff of that power, so it's not limited to getting people up to 56% stats. That's not as bad of a nerf as I thought, that, but it still just makes it a somewhat better Miracle Fruits; it doesn't trivialize buffs much more than having Sanae does. However, simply because it's on someone with permanent +100% stats themselves, it still puts her notably ahead of Sanae; she doesn't need to be buffed herself (after the very start of the fight) and having all buffs maxed is pretty damn sweet. Plus her synergy with Nazrin (and presumably and perhaps more importantly, Shou) is nice, especially if Nazrin's new passives help make her more considerable to take along.
Although, if Shredder keeps being popular... it really, really takes Byakuren down a notch and necessitates some backup support. Renko's Charge, with enhancer sub to trivialize it's damage, is invaluable. And maintenance amazingly went unnerfed so Renko is still silly. ...of course, Renko is so silly she still might mostly be able to handle the rest of the necessary buffing. >_> Keine is at least considerable again and Reimu isn't completely unnecessary anymore... (Since Rumia and Maribel both could overtake her multiheal territory)
Plus basically anyone can maintain the buffs Renko and Byakuren lay out with Placebo Effect, a 3-cost 7000-delay skill that increases your buffs by 50%. 60% buffs go to 90%, if a strategist is out they can stay that high quite awhile, especially if you're using people with monk or majesty or other buff passives, etc. Hmm. Support is awfully flexible.
also nah diva aya is still probably silly
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So.
Everyone's spells do exist it at least some form in the game (you can see them all in the Skills table for each character). However, trying to open up the Spells section in battle for any of the new 8 characters other than Mamizou or Akyuu
will crash.
In other news, the bug that automatically defeats all 3 defiled bosses if you start the game with Renko (or ever put her in your party) is still around. :( I reeeeeeaaaaaaaally hope that gets fixed.
Attached is the file needed to give you all party members. Simply overwrite the one in your save\save*\ folder.
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In other news, the bug that automatically defeats all 3 defiled bosses if you start the game with Renko (or ever put her in your party) is still around. :( I reeeeeeaaaaaaaally hope that gets fixed.
Really? I tried doing the ingame NG+ once and I didn't get the achievements (I had mari/renko), fought a couple battles before going back to Gensokyo to check and closing the game. I admit I didn't think to put Renko into my party, though.
Also, eee. That's pretty neat as it is. Time to check it out~
edit:Well, we can see all their base stats, and their skill lists seem entirely filled out so if anyone has enough interest they're readable. But apart from Mamizou yeah, you can't use them inbattle. Akyuu
's skill might have a proper description but it's otherwise just a dummied ying yang orb.
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Would love the translation effort on the spells or skills of the new characters, but I can check them out myselves once I'm back home, pff. Plus Disk is really interesting so far though.
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I started the Plus Disk trial only to find out that you're probably supposed to have done some of the postgame stuff first, which I forgot. Whoops.
new skills:
-New Skill for Ran: "Shikigami Defense".
When taking damage, halves the damage taken with a 40% chance. Consumes 1MP when it activates. 25 pts
-New Skill for Iku: "Lightning Fish".
Increases base speed by SL x 4. 10 pts, 6 levels
-New Skill for Sakuya: "Jack the Ludo Bile"
When Sakuya has a speed buff, in addition to the normal attack buff, she gains (speed buff effect/3)% increased attack power. 30 pts (this one is kind of awkwardly worded, I might be missing something)
-New Skills for Nazrin: "Bishamonten's Blessing - Wisdom" and "Bishamonten's Blessing - Gale".
One increases base MAG by SL x 3, the other increases base SPD by SL x 4. If you have both, the effect of Gale is cancelled. 12 pts, 4 levels on each.
-New Skill for Alice: "Enhanced Doll Mobility".
When Alice attacks, ignores SL x 10% of the enemy's defense when calculating damage. 8 pts, 4 levels
-New SKill for Cirno: "Blizzard Blowout".
When Cirno dies, debuffs enemy speed by SL x 10%. Ignores resistance. 8 pts, 5 levels
-New Skill for Tenshi: "Enduring Celestial".
Increases DEF/MND by 20% at the start of battle if Tenshi is on the front line. 15 pts
Alice, Ran, and Iku's seem pretty nice in particular.
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-New Skill for Sakuya: "Jack the Ludo Bile"
When Sakuya has a speed buff, in addition to the normal attack buff, she gains (speed buff effect/3)% increased attack power. 30 pts (this one is kind of awkwardly worded, I might be missing something)
I think it's saying a % of the Speed Buff will be added as bonus attack. In this case, if you have a 30% Speed Buff on Sakuya, it'd be 30/3 = 10% Increased Attack. So she can get up to nearly 33% bonus Attack
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To be specific about Iku and Nazrin's skills, on the wiki metric it's 0.4. Still, free 2.4 base speed increase is nice, and Nazrin could really use that 1.2 magic to get to a long-term-usable point (or 1.6 speed, but, I don't think that's as nice). Subbing Transcendent and piggybacking on Byakuren's Sutras for permanent 100% stats would make her a solid bulky attacker, I think.
I think Sakuya's is also among the best, since with a Strategist and nice buffs it's not too hard to maintain 60%+ buffs, and she's got Killer Doll that needs as much atk as it can get. But yeah, Ran and Alice just got a lot better. I'd be definitely throwing Alice in my party if it wasn't that she also necessitates Marisa (You can't NOT take such an easily activated +30% magic, that's crippling), making me have to think about it... my party already has burst damage to rival sparking and MYS is such a commonly resisted element.
Blizzard Blowout is interesting because a lot of bosses are nearly immune to speed debuffs, but it's not really a game changer; it makes Cirno somewhat more viable to take at least.
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Wow, I am really late to this whole Plus Disk, aren't I? Oh, well. Anyway,
So if Byakuren doesn't copy buffs anymore, does that means she can cast Sutra on herself to buff herself? If so, that's going to help her even more in achieving 100% buffs.
Gambler is heavily nerfed to the point of near uselessness now, too bad.
Yes! For a character as slow as a molass, Iku definitely needs the "Lightning Fish" skill. With that skill, she might fast enough to actually make her "Mind-ignoring attacker" built actually worthwhile.
Enduring Celestial might be a little redundant on Tenshi since normally you would buff her defenses to maximum at the first turn anyway. Well, if you are using her as an attacker, that's a different story.
Also, are they seriously going to make Alice the best character to take into the dungeon? She already got high evasion skill, extra buffs with Marisa in the reserves, extra damage on enemies with ailments, instant MP skill and now they add a powered-down version of People of the Moon to hurt the enemies further. Not that I'm complaining though.
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Yes! For a character as slow as a molass, Iku definitely needs the "Lightning Fish" skill. With that skill, she might fast enough to actually make her "Mind-ignoring attacker" built actually worthwhile.
Iku's mnd-ignoring offense build is pretty legit already, the main issue is just how many bosses resist MYS; but around then, you should easily have Hina or anyone else online to debuff MND and use Heavenly Maiden's Blow with her spells instead. Her normal attack is better when you can though (maybe with a skill now and then to drop the enemy's DEF for the party) since it's got that sweet low delay and nonexistent cast cost. Keep in mind if you use Tenshi with her, Iku becomes super durable with +40% def/mnd. But yeah, she's also godly on random fights; she one-shots almost all enemies that don't resist MYS with her normal (especially those pesky tanky ones!) and can use spells on the rest.
But yeah, Alice is ridiculous. It's just too bad it almost necessitates bringing Marisa too, who I'm far less interested in; Malice Cannon is ultra easy to activate and insanely good for Alice, free +30% base magic yes please?!
In other news I'm almost done reformatting damage formulas and adding library costs on Char.Page 3 of the wiki (edit, done now~), and I went back to improve the line breaks and round decimals on page 1+2 already. I'm sorta debating changing "Post-use Gauge" to "Delay" since it frees up a huge amount of space and makes it display properly with more consistency on lower resolutions, but whatever, I'll leave it for now. (It's slightly less clear that way but anyone who's played a couple floors into the game would understand, after all.) Besides, if I want to make it display better for smaller res, I should keep formatting with the current size restriction in mind.
edit:If I change the wiki format to shove the portrait with the base stats chart instead of out to the right, the wiki should look awesome at -any- resolution; however it's sort of a pain in the ass to do this for that many characters. But it would look like this (at ~1,200 screen width, which next to no one would use less than these days; I think a larger 1280 is the smallest normal?) http://puu.sh/mBE4F.png You have to add the fourth Portrait column and change all column size parameters to 4 instead of 3, and then add a little section in the code to shove the portrait into. Which is fairly simple, but doing it 48 times, jeez, there's no fast way to complete these steps. Likely not going to be able to bother.
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Hey guys i'm new to this game so i'm wondering how damage increasing skills work, after all ATK, DEF and stat buff calculation
1.Race skills (Weird creatures, Oni, Inorganic,..)
2.Elemental damage increase
3.Other special skills: Gambler subclass, Malice cannon,..
Do they stack additively or multiplicatively?
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I think they stack multiplicatively.
...but I'm not positive. However, stuff like Malice Cannon which just boosts your magic, certainly does multiply with the others. The others are flat damage boosts to the final damage of the move, which... may or may not be multiplicative. :T
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So if Alice has 1k Mag, 100% mag buff and Malice cannon Lv2 (30%) then i should take it as if she has 1000 x 2 x 1.3 right? Or 1000 x 2.3 ?
Still i didn't notice it was Mag increased not damage so it's even better because of this subtracting Def formula :)
Am i the only one who thinks this Gambler nerf is so much? I mean, restricting one Gambler per party is good enough but now it's even worse than Transcendant in terms of damage increasing or even normal class like Warrior and Sorcerer.
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The gambler nerf -is- a bit much, but Transcendant only gives 10% dmg up and then roughly 10% more base stats, wheras new gambler is +40% damage. It's... only even remotely considerable for total glass characters now, though. And even then, double mp cost? But postgame they take too much pampering to keep alive and you have more mp so I guess it still works.
I'm not sure whether it's 1000 x 2 x 1.3 or 1000 x 2.3, but I think it's the former. It isn't hard to do testing against 1f enemies, though.
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makes sense that the plus disk area would be underground, to eliminate the "Root" of the problem :V
and maybe after finishing it all, 21F changes into the final bonus boss, or a 22F where you ascend higher than the heavens
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makes sense that the plus disk area would be underground, to eliminate the "Root" of the problem :V
Careful, those kinds of jokes can stump the best of us.
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Finally! Reformatted all character pages on the wiki, as well as the subclass page. Maybe I'll rewrite some of the play notes sometime; god knows in my spare brain power at work I theorycraft way too much to pass the time.
More row attacks than I thought are actually pretty dang strong if you use Row Attack Enhancement, looking at them with simplified formulas... I'd list the name but I'd be listing like 2/3rds of the characters that have them. Most notable might just be Yukari, in that Hyperactive Flying Object is actually a completely worthy nuke after enhancement and has lowish MND influence to boot, wheras people mostly only considered Shikigami+ for offensive Yukari in the past; with both options on her for better variety (and stability when Ran+ isn't up), running an offensive Yakumo team isn't a bad idea at all. (Chen and Ran's row attacks are also glorious with the bonus; Chen has a 400+% base atk skill?! It has massive def influence though. Ran's is a powerful nuke with low delay on a bulky character that only gets overshadowed by people staring at her buffs; it's awesome.)
But yeah, it's also for Orin's best attack (which boosts her into a solid character, I always thought her numbers were meh but with not only that bonus, it also debuffs defense at the same time and she's got Extra Attack), Alice's Hourai Dolls would be deadly (but with massive mnd influence; she'll want that new Plus Disk ignoring passive), and helps make Sanae a surprisingly good variety bulky attacker (both her attacks get +30% dmg boost from passives to reach strong levels). It's also overall nice variety that at the same time you can pick up Explosive Flame Sword, or Penetrator, which is a pretty alright attack when Row Atk Enhance is maxed.
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Back in Calamity Four, I remember changing Yukari's Level up Bonuses to MAG sometimes simply for Hyperactive Flying Object. It's really good. (Though I mostly used it for defense piercing since it was the only other thing I had)
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So i recruited Mamizou but what do her passive abilities do cause i can't read Japanese and i want to make sure I'm gonna use her correctly.
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If you want to upload pictures of the skill descriptions I can translate them tomorrow (or someone else can if they feel like it).
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Hawk uploaded a save file with all characters unlocked (including the other 7 who can't normally be obtained in the trial; they don't function inbattle but have full movesets in "Learn Skills" apart from character #8)
Attached is the file needed to give you all party members. Simply overwrite the one in your save\save*\ folder.
(Actual link: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19029.0;attach=40925 ) Unless you mean you actually don't have the game/trial O:
If you do translate I'll probably throw it up on the wiki on a tentative character page 7 sometime; we already have their base stats and portraits (as much as the portrait display on the wiki should probably be reconfigured; but w/e too much effort to apply the new format I tested recently to all 48 characters and it works fine as long as you have 1600 resolution width I guess) so if the move descriptions were in we'd practically only be missing damage formulas and skill delay. Which might not be in there at all, since only Mamizou's are usable. They might change before release, but, probably not drastically and it'd be easy to edit in any case~
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If you want to upload pictures of the skill descriptions I can translate them tomorrow (or someone else can if they feel like it).
http://imgur.com/a/VdjnB
Alright here is the images with her abilities and i thrown in her attacks too so that can be a thing translated too.
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http://imgur.com/a/VdjnB
Alright here is the images with her abilities and i thrown in her attacks too so that can be a thing translated too.
From top to bottom. Names and such are still provisional.
1. Mamizou's Seven Elemental Transformations
When the user uses the Attack command, the user will be infused with a random element.
When infused with an element, the element will be added to all attack skills.
If the user is already infused with an element and the Attack command is used again,
the old element will be removed and a new random element will take its place.
2. The Bake-Danuki Who's Always Up For A Prank
If the user is at the front and an enemy is inflicted with SHK,
all enemy stats are reduced and all frontliners recover a small amount of HP and MP.
3. Uncatchable Tanuki's Disguiser
If the user is at the front and an enemy is inflicted with SHK,
the enemy will be inflicted with a medium-strength DTH effect.
The chance of the DTH effect occurring is affected by the enemy's DTH resistance.
4. High-Speed Normal Attack
Consumes 1 MP when a normal attack is used.
The ATB bar will be set at 8600 instead of 5000 when using a normal attack.
5. Elder Tanuki's Wisdom
Adds a HVY effect to all of the user's attacks.
6. Enduring Heart
Set chance of recovering 1 MP when taking damage from an enemy attack.
Increasing the skill level gives a chance to recover 2 MP instead of 1 MP when the effect kicks in.
7. "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals"
Cost 2 MP Single Enemy : CLD Magic Attack: ACC+30
CLD spell that targets a single enemy,
Inflicts SHK as an additional effect. Can be spammed as it has low delay.
8. Futatsuiwa Clan's Curse
Cost 8 MP Single Enemy : MYS Magic Attack: ACC-30
MYS spell that targets a single enemy,
Useful attack that has a good chance of inflicting SHK, SIL, and lowering all stats of the target.
However, its high MP cost, low accuracy and large delay gives it many problems.
9. "Mamizou Danmaku in Ten Transformations"
Cost 6 MP All Enemies : WND Magic Attack: ACC+0
WND spell that targets all enemies,
If the user is infused with an element from the Seven Elemental Transformations effect,
the attack will have a power boost and inflict a status effect related to the element.
10. "Full Moon Pompokolin"
Cost 8 MP All Enemies : SPI Magic Attack: ACC+30
SPI spell that targets all enemies,
If Eirin, Kaguya, Reisen or Suwako are at the front,
the power of the spell is somewhat boosted for each person.
I might do the rest later if no one else has done 'em yet.
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From top to bottom. Names and such are still provisional.
1. Mamizou's Seven Elemental Transformations
When the user uses the Attack command, the user will be infused with a random element.
When infused with an element, the element will be added to all attack skills.
If the user is already infused with an element and the Attack command is used again,
the old element will be removed and a new random element will take its place.
2. The Bake-Danuki Who's Always Up For A Prank
If the user is at the front and an enemy is inflicted with SHK,
all enemy stats are reduced and all frontliners recover a small amount of HP and MP.
3. Uncatchable Tanuki's Disguiser
If the user is at the front and an enemy is inflicted with SHK,
the enemy will be inflicted with a medium-strength DTH effect.
The chance of the DTH effect occurring is affected by the enemy's DTH resistance.
4. High-Speed Normal Attack
Consumes 1 MP when a normal attack is used.
The ATB bar will be set at 8600 instead of 5000 when using a normal attack.
5. Elder Tanuki's Wisdom
Adds a HVY effect to all of the user's attacks.
6. Enduring Heart
Set chance of recovering 1 MP when taking damage from an enemy attack.
Increasing the skill level gives a chance to recover 2 MP instead of 1 MP when the effect kicks in.
7. "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals"
Cost 2 MP Single Enemy : CLD Magic Attack: ACC+30
CLD spell that targets a single enemy,
Inflicts SHK as an additional effect. Can be spammed as it has low delay.
8. Futatsuiwa Clan's Curse
Cost 8 MP Single Enemy : MYS Magic Attack: ACC-30
MYS spell that targets a single enemy,
Useful attack that has a good chance of inflicting SHK, SIL, and lowering all stats of the target.
However, its high MP cost, low accuracy and large delay gives it many problems.
9. "Mamizou Danmaku in Ten Transformations"
Cost 6 MP All Enemies : WND Magic Attack: ACC+0
WND spell that targets all enemies,
If the user is infused with an element from the Seven Elemental Transformations effect,
the attack will have a power boost and inflict a status effect related to the element.
10. "Full Moon Pompokolin"
Cost 8 MP All Enemies : SPI Magic Attack: ACC+30
SPI spell that targets all enemies,
If Eirin, Kaguya, Reisen or Suwako are at the front,
the power of the spell is somewhat boosted for each person.
I might do the rest later if no one else has done 'em yet.
A lot of these sound super interesting, even if the last one is kinda odd.
Also, translating the rest of the characters would indeed be pretty awesome.
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Consumes 1 MP when a normal attack is used.
The ATB bar will be set at 8600 instead of 5000 when using a normal attack.
Wut, i thought it was 7000, not 5000.
So she's a good support with SHK and all stats debuff. If you are lucky, she'll get infused with the boss' weakness right away and can also deal damage. Interesting but not impressive.
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(mamizou spec/info, I'm not sure if I should spoiler so I guess I will in case?)
With 8600 delay and most bosses having two weaknesses (some of which she may have on her attacks by default), getting the boss weakness probably isn't that big of a problem, and you can sub Sorc for empowered normal attacks. Even without that, though, it's not like you're always hitting weakness with your general attackers. Her stat layout is glassy but with almost Komachi-level HP, so she can take a hit without having to invest into her defenses, which is helpful; there's only so much multiboosting gear to throw around and it takes a lot of investment to keep bulky attackers actually bulky in postgame.
What it really comes down to is how damaging her attacks are, though, which I'll test at some point. (Saying she's a "good support" seems questionable, since it seems far moreso that she's an attacker with some effects on the side as attackers often have.)
Edit:Okay, Mamizou's attacks vs. 1F enemies (just for proportionate damage, and when not hitting weakness) She had 473 MAG.
Attack:460, 740 w/Sorc empowered attack
#1 Spell:700, 75% delay (150% mag?)
#2 Spell:1300, 30% delay (275% mag?)
#3 Spell:800, 940~ when elementally charged (maybe it's a 20% damage boost?), 40% delay (170% mag?)
#4 Spell:1200, goes up about 10% for one dmg boost character, 28% delay (255% mag?)
Mamizou's elemental fixing actually seems to make her spellcards dual-elemental; it attacks with both, not just the new one. That's... interesting, and makes me wonder if any of the other plus disk characters will have dual elemental attacks; it seems curious something of that degree would be limited to a single person, unless it was -really- trivial to add... I assume it functions off whichever element has the lowest affinity on that enemy (so ideal damage occurs) but I haven't tested.
If subbed Sorc, her empowered basic attack is so fast with decent damage that it's really not a bad use of time, so she can totally do that and fish for boss weaknesses. Then you'd prooobably spam one of her 8mp skills for real damage whilst swapping in/out, depending on whether you want AoE or not. Elemental transformations persist through swapping in/out and multiple skill usage.
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I've tested Mamizou's spell on 2F Ferocious Stump. Mamizou was infused with Dark-element, in which it resists. Then, I attacked the Stump with her CLD spell, in which the stump is neutral to. The damage color was orange so it is neutral. So yeah, it seems that skill will choose whichever element has the lowest affinity.
Also, look like we can now create Main Equipment at Nitori's Workshop. There are only 2 craftable items for now, one TP item and one MP, HP item. We need some new materials to craft them though.
EDIT: Just testing Byakuren. I think she gets balanced rather than nerfed. She just now takes longer (2 turns) to give your party member 100% buff. Even then, she can now buff herself with her Duplicating Chant, which allows her to reach 100% buffs faster.
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Bleh, they changed the Gensokyo menu images again... Those were a pain to do.
Anyway, all the new characters (besides Mamizou
) skills from the Learn Skill menu are below. As always, names and such are still provisional. Anything in {} brackets are my own comments.
Do note that there are some skills/spells which are clearly placeholders, some which make unclear references to other gameplay effects, and some descriptions which are clearly not finalized yet. (e.g. missing punctuation, which I didn't bother to recreate)
Koishi Komeiji
1. Earth Spirits Palace Party
{Same as Satori/Rin/Utsuho}
2. Myouren Temple Disciple?
If the user is in front with Hijiri,
the user receives 1/3rd of Hijiri's stat buffs.
3. Super-Responsive Senses
If the user evades an enemy's attack,
the user's ATB bar increases by 3000.
4. Manipulation of the Subconscious
When taking an attack that hits the entire ally front line,
the user's DEF, MND and EVA will be increased by (SLv*8)%.
5. Genetics of the Subconscious
When taking an attack from an enemy, if the attack is not evaded, the Genetics of the Subconscious counter increases by 1.
When the Genetics of the Subconscious counter is 1 or more, EVA is increased by Counter*10%.
The counter is reset to 0 when an enemy attack is successfully evaded.
6. Expansion of Consciousness
Increases MP Recovery Rate by (SLv).
7. The Embers of Love
MP Cost 4 Single Enemy: FIR Magic Attack - Acc-10
FIR spell that targets a single enemy.
Its low accuracy is its weak point, but it has a nice balance of power and delay.
8. Super-Ego
MP Cost 5 All Enemies: VOID Magic Attack - Acc+100
Attacks all enemies with the special VOID element.
There are pretty much no enemies that resist VOID, so you can expect it to deal reliable damage.
9. All Ancestors Standing Beside Your Bed
MP Cost 6 All Enemies: MYS Magic Attack - Acc+0
MYS spell that targets all enemies.
Damage dealt increases if the target enemy is inflicted with TRR or SIL.
10. Selfless Love
MP Cost 5 Single Ally: VOID Auxillary Action
Dispels all ailments and stat changes from the target.
Do note that stat buffs are also dispelled. If stat buffs are dispelled, the target's HP
will be recovered in proportion to the potency of the dispelled stat buffs.
Shou Toramaru
1. Myouren Temple Personnel
When the user and Byakuren are both at the front,
the user will receive the HP recovery and stat buff effects
of all Sutra skills that Bykauren has learnt.
2. The Exasperated One
It's actually Nazrin who's always exasperated, but don't sweat the small stuff.
When Nazrin is at the front, the user's DEF and MND increases by (SLv*12)%.
When Rinnosuke is at the front, the user's ATK and MAG increases by (SLV*12)%.
3. Ability to Gather Treasures
Increases EXP received by 4%. Increases money received and enemy item drop rate by 10%.
The effect is reduced if the user is not at the front when the battle ends.
4. Pagoda's Light of Dharma
When the user gets a turn,
one of the following random effects will occur: reduce all stats of all enemies, recover
slight HP for all allies at the front, recover slight MP for all allies at the front,
increase all stats of all allies at the front, recover all ailments of all allies at the front.
{This is going to be hard to fit into the game when the patch work starts in earnest...}
5. Physical Counter
When taking a direct attack, there is a (SLv*33)% chance of countering with a normal attack.
6. Bishamonten's Rage
When the user takes damage, the user's Bishamonten's Rage counter increases by 1.
When the counter is at 1 or more, the user will receive a counter*3% increase in ATK.
The counter is halved when the user is switched to the back.
7. Hungry Tiger
MP Cost 3 Single Enemy: PHY Direct Attack - Never Misses
PHY spell that targets a single enemy.
Increases the user's HP slightly each time it is used.
The delay is quite large compared to its power, so it is hard to use repeatedly.
8. Radiant Treasure Gun
MP Cost 3 All Enemies: SPI Direct Attack - ACC+4
SPI spell that targets all enemies.
Enemies defeated by this spell will give 1.25x more experience and money, and the item drop
rate increases by 1.25x as well. However, it is not very strong.
9. Dazzling Gold
MP Cost 3 All Enemies: SPI Composite Magic Attack - ACC+20
Spell that uses the user's ATK+MAG against the enemy's MND to calculate damage.
The enemy's MND is halved when calculating damage. The spell also inflicts PAR and HVY.
10. Aura of Justice
MP Cost 7 All Allies: SPI Auxillary Action
Auxillary spell that increases all stats for all allies at the front slightly.
The effect is extremely slim on its own, but the effect increases if the Bishamonten's Rage
counter is at 1 or more, at the cost of reducing the Bishamonten's Rage counter back to 0.
Miko Toyosatomimi
1. Asuka Heritage Attack
When the user is at full HP,
all attacks will ignore 40% of the enemies' defenses.
{Reference to Gag Manga Biyori}
2. Royal Clan's Chaotic Dance (Miko)
When Futo is at the front,
the effects of the skill "Asuka Heritage Attack" will always be active,
and the skill will ignore 66% of the enemies' defenses instead of 40%.
3. Divinely-Appointed Stateswoman
When the user gets a turn,
if the frontliners' combined current HP is at 300% or more, the user's ATK and MAG is increased by 16%.
if the frontliners' combined current HP is at 200% or less, the user's DEF, MND and SPD is increased by 24%.
4. Prince Shotoku's Out-of-Place Artifact
Doubles the effects of equipment.
{Third 3peso waifu confirmed.}
5. Sage of Toyosatomimi
The effects of stat buff on the user is increased by 20%.
The user's maximum stat buff is increased from 100% to 120%.
6. Clear and Serene Mind
When the user gets a turn, if the user is at full MP, increases all stats by (SLv*6)%.
7. Tradition of Just Rewards
MP Cost 5 Single Enemy: MYS Magic Attack - Acc+20
If "Divinely-Appointed Stateswoman - Good" is active, the spell's element becomes SPI and
it reduces all stats of the target. If "Divinely-Appointed Stateswoman - Evil" is actve,
the spell's element becomes DRK and it has a chance of dispelling the target's buffs.
8. Halo of the Guse Kannon
MP Cost 9 All enemies: SPI Magic Attack - Acc+10
SPI spell that targets all enemies.
Has high power an an extremely large damage multiplier, but one of the worst delays.
9. Wishful Soul of Desire
MP Cost 9 Single Ally: SPI Auxillary Action
Spell that recovers a small amount of an ally's HP.
If the target is inflicted with a status ailment or a debuff, the HP recovered will be
increased, and a small amount of MP will also be recovered.
Futo Mononobe
1. Kodoku Plate Pileup
Using certain spells will increase a Eighty Sake Cups counter. The counter maxes out at (SLv).
When the counter is at 1 or more, damage dealt will be increased by counter*3%.
When the counter is at 1 or more and the user takes an attack,
the counter will be decreased by 1 and damage taken will be reduced by 16%.
2. Royal Clan's Chaotic Dance (Futo)
When Miko is at the front, the Eighty Sake Cups counter increases twice as fast.
3. Ritual Plate Offering to Mikoto Nigihayahi
When the user gets a turn, recovers MP in proportion to the Eighty Sake Cups counter.
When the Eighty Sakes Cups counter is decreased to reduce damage, the damage reduction is changed to 40%.
When the user is KO'd, there is a (Counter*8)% chance of consuming 16 TP to survive with 1 HP.
The Eighty Sake Cups counter will be reset to 0 if this occurs.
4. Ritual Plate Offering to Okami Omononushi
When the user gets a turn, recovers HP in proportion to the Eighty Sake Cups counter.
If the Eighty Sake Cups counter is 1 or more and a Futo-only spell is used,
the damage dealt will be increased by a further Counter*5%. This skill will not take effect if
Ritual Plate Offering to Mikoto Nigihayahi is also learnt.
5. Desires to the Divine Spirit Temple
If the Eighty Sake Cups counter is 1 or more and the [Concentrate] command is used,
All stats will be increased and HP recovered in proportion to the counter amount,
and the counter will be reset to 0.
6. Giving You Wings
Greatly increases recovery from debuffs and status ailments.
{Original Japanese is 元気ハツラツ lit. Energetic and Lively, a slogan for Oronamin C. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oronamin)}
7. Mononobe's Eighty Sake Cups
MP Cost 3 Single Enemy: PHY Direct Attack - Acc+8
PHY spell that targets a single enemy.
Targets all enemies if certain conditions are fulfilled.
Using this spell after learning Kodoku Plate Pileup will increase the Eighty Sake Cups counter.
{I'm guessing the conditions are related to the Eighty Sake Cups counter, like the other spells.}
8. Gate Opening for Catastrophe
MP Cost 4 Single Enemy: DRK Direct Attack - Acc+8
DRK spell that targets a single enemy. High power with a large delay.
Inflicts additional status ailments as the Eighty Sake Cups counter increases.
Using this spell after learning Kodoku Plate Pileup will increase the Eighty Sake Cups counter.
9. Miwa Plate Storm
MP Cost 4 All Enemies: WND Direct Attack - Acc+24
DRK spell that targets all enemies.
Using this spell after learning Kodoku Plate Pileup will increase the Eighty Sake Cups counter.
10. Taiyi True Fire
MP Cost 7 All Enemies: FIR Direct Attack - Acc+0
Attacks all enemies with a FIR element attack with a big damage multiplier. Also inflicts PSN.
The infliction rate and strength of the PSN effect increases as the Eighty Sake Cups counter increases.
Using this spell does not increase the Eighty Sake Cups counter.
Kokoro Hata
1. Myouren Temple Disciple?
{Same as Koishi}
2. Phantasmagoric Emotion Transfer
When the user uses the [Concentrate] command, the user wil receive the "Emotion Mask" effect.
There are four types of Emotion Masks: Joy, Anger, Melancholy and Cheerfulness. The masks apply
stat buffs and debuffs to all enemies and allies, and can be shuffled using the [Concentrate] command.
Joy: ATK/DEF Up, MAG/MND Down. Anger: ATK/MAG Up, DEF/MND Down. Melancholy: MAG/MND Up, ATK/DEF down. Cheer: SPD Up, ATK/MAG down.
{Another "how is this going to fit in the textbox" description...}
3. Power of the Emotion Mask Creator
When Miko is at the front,
reduces the stat debuff to allies from the "Emotion Mask" effect by half.
4. Convergence of the Sixty-Six Emotions
When in battle, if any of the "Emotion Mask" stat changes are active,
the user will receive the 2.5x of the effects of the stat changes.
5. Manipulation of Emotions
If the user uses an attack with the "Emotion Mask" effect active,
the stat debuff portion from the Emotion Mask effect will be inflicted as an additional stat debuff.
If the user uses a healing move with the "Emotion Mask" effect active,
the stat buff portion from the Emotion Mask effect will be added as an additional stat buff.
6. The Lost Emotion
When using the [Concentrate] command, the ATB bar is set to 8500 instead of 5000, but the MP
recovered will become 1/3rd of normal. If the skill "Efficient Concentration" is learned,
the MP recovered will be increased to 1/2th of normal.
7. Four Humors Possession
MP Cost 7 All Enemies: WND Magic Attack - Acc+10
Hits all enemies with a magic attack. If the user has an Emotion Mask effect active,
the properties of the attack will be changed, and additional effects will be inflicted.
8. Invigorated Kagura Lion
MP Cost 4 Single Enemy: PHY Direct Attack - Acc+48
Hits a single enemy with a physical attack. It has better properties than other spells of its
ilk, so Kokoro will do reliable damage with it even if her stat bonuses are split between ATK and MAG.
When the spell is used, the "Fighting Spirit" effect is increased by 1. The max effect level is (SLv).
9. The Man of Qi Worries About the Earth
MP Cost 8 All Enemies: WND+NTR Composite Magic Attack - Acc+0
Attacks all enemies with a composite WND+NTR magic attack.
It has no other special effects, but having two elements gives it more flexibility against resistant enemies.
Akyu Hieda
1. Ability to Memorize Everything
If Akyu is in the party,
the enemy's exact HP details can be seen i battle.
2. Gensokyo Chronicles Wisdom
If the user is at the front,
increases damage dealt of ally attacks that hit weaknesses by 12%,
and decreases damage taken by enemy attacks by 25% if the target's respective elemental affinity is less than 200.
3. Memories of Gensokyo
When the user gets a turn,
heals a random status ailment from each member of the front line.
4. Power of the Child of Miare
If the user has 1 or more TP and the user's HP is reduced to 0,
there will be a (SLv*10)% chance of consuming all TP and recovering all HP.
The effect will not activate if the user has 0 TP.
5. Grand Incantation
{Same as Reimu}
6. Astounding Fortitude
When the user gets a turn, the user recovers 1 MP.
7. Yin Yang Orb
{Same as Reimu}
Tokiko
1. Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai
When the user takes damage from an element with less than 200 affinity,
the user recovers (SLv*4)% HP and (SLv) MP.
2. Victim of Reimu and Marisa's Brutality
When Reimu or Marisa is at the front,
the user's ATK and DEF increases by (SLv*10)%.
3. Crested Ibis's Breeding Feather
When the user gets a turn and the user is under the "Reading" effect,
slightly reduces the effect of enemy stat buffs
and slightly increases the effect of enemy stat debuffs.
4. Sugari no Ontachi's Ornament
When the user gets a turn and the user is under the "Reading" effect,
slightly increases the effect of frontline ally stat buffs
and slightly decreases the effect of Frontline ally stat debuffs.
5. Crossed Over Endangered Bird
When the user is at the front and under the "Reading" effect,
slightly increases the effect of PSN's HP reduction, HVY's DEF and SPD debuff,
TRR's slight stat debuffs and SIL's MND and MAG debuff.
6. Give As Good As You Get
When the user takes damage from an enemy, the user's ATK is increased by (SLv*5)%.
7. Youkai Yakuza Kick
MP Cost 5 All Enemies: PHY Direct Attack - Acc+4
A high-power, low-delay and useful basic attack known for breaking Kourindou's door.
If the "Reading" effect is active, the effect is removed in exchange for a power boost.
8. The Count of Monte Cristo's Vengance
MP Cost 6 Single Enemy: CLD Magic Attack - Acc+24
Attack that targets all enemies and inflicts SHK and DTH.
It's not very powerful. The user receives the "Reading" effect after use.
{Yes, the description says it targets all enemies, but the stats of the spell say otherwise}
9. Musketeer d'Artagnan's Recklessness
MP Cost 6 All Enemies: FIR Magic Attack - Acc+24
Attack that targets all enemies, inflicts SIL and reduces MAG and SPD slightly.
It's not very powerful. The user receives the "Reading" effect after use.
10. The Future of Non-von Neumann Processors
MP Cost 12 All Allies: MYS Auxillary Action
Heals status ailments, halves the effect of stat debuffs, and recovers a small amount of HP.
The HP recovery amount is determined by the difference between the target's current and max MP.
The user receives the "Reading" effect after use.
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Hmmm...
Koishi will depend on the power of her attacks, Shou seems really weird and I'm not sure (Two of her three attacks say they're weak and the other is a cheap all-target, but she has some pretty good passives and base stats...) and obviously Akyu's moveset isn't out yet (but she carries somewhat good-niche-type passives),
and the others all seem like they should be pretty great, gimmicky yes, but solid characters. (And miss-third-maintenance looks OP as fuck, like, literally everything about her looks goddamn crazy.)
Actually, Shou might be a good tank/support (especially considering how many plus disk characters benefit from Byakuren, using a Myouren-centric team and dumping your def/mnd/hp gems on Byakuren to make her supremely tanky seems like a good idea, after all...) but her moveset makes it... a little odd? She's got the stats, gets Byakuren's full regen/buff powers to stay at 100% and regen HP, and a max HP increasing move, so I guess that's probably best. And she has the buff to use every now and then, since in a tank build she doesn't need the atk counter bonus. Mmn, with Byakuren's buffs/regen and Shou's base stats, she's probably -really- well suited to it, actually. She'd just look to a subclass for more support moves, like Healer or Pharmacologist. And of course, the synergy with Nazrin encourages more Myouren members >_>;[/spoilers]
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Hello there ! (Oh yeah, first post. I did read the rules beforehand.)
I've been lurking around this topic for a long moment as a guest. I didn't imagine that people would still talk about that game for years, which is very nice.
I played both LoT1 and 2 for a pretty long time (More hours for the first one though) and can't prevent myself from playing them again sometimes.
So far I just finished visiting B4F after beating Mamizou and I don't know what to do since everything is apparently locked. It doesn't help further since obviously everything is in Japanese again so I may be missing something near this location. (Or maybe, there is literally nothing to do except waiting for the rest to be released ?)
For the moment I'm thinking about restarting LoT2 anew while using all characters at once, for the sake of testing everyone's potential.
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Bleh, they changed the Gensokyo menu images again... Those were a pain to do.
I'm hoping I can get canon to actually finish doing the images, since he does owe me.
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Miko
looks absolutely bonkers. Ignores 2/3 of enemy defenses with the right party member on the frontline, gets an extra 16% atk/magic or 24% defenses/speed per turn, gains 20% more benefit from buffs, what sounds like a really strong SPI nuke, and then Maintenance, just in case everything else wasn't enough.
Also, seeing that element changing ability made me wish for a subclass that could do that. One gripe I have with Labyrinth 2 in general is that it requires a lot of party re-arranging since most attackers only have a couple of offensive elemental options to play with, if that many. I guess there are generic subclass attacks too but those are pretty limited, especially for mages. That's another area that I'm hoping Plus Disk will improve on.
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One gripe I have with Labyrinth 2 in general is that it requires a lot of party re-arranging since most attackers only have a couple of offensive elemental options to play with, if that many. I guess there are generic subclass attacks too but those are pretty limited, especially for mages. That's another area that I'm hoping Plus Disk will improve on.
I agree that party rearranging is time consuming but it also give us the incentive to try as many char as possible that is best for the situation. This is not a game where you'll play from the beginning to end with a fixed "best" party you see ppl mention on the forum :) I like how i can alternate Nitori for PHY, Flan for DRK/FIR, Suika for NTR,.. so all chars i love have oppoturnities to shine.
And was maintenance not broken enough? Now we have a Maintenaince/Ignores Def char.
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I agree that party rearranging is time consuming but it also give us the incentive to try as many char as possible that is best for the situation. This is not a game where you'll play from the beginning to end with a fixed "best" party you see ppl mention on the forum :) I like how i can alternate Nitori for PHY, Flan for DRK/FIR, Suika for NTR,.. so all chars i love have oppoturnities to shine.
There's no "best" party but there are "best for most situations" parties. And thats what people "debate" over if you can even call it debating. Even in LoT1, it was the same idea, since there were plenty of partys that are able to clear the game, but there were clear party members that excelled in a lot of different situations. In LoT2, the gap between an "average" party member and an "excellent" party member has closed considerably, which allows for multiple playthroughs with a variety of different parties / a lot of party rearranging which is definitely a good thing.
That said :
One gripe I have with Labyrinth 2 in general is that it requires a lot of party re-arranging since most attackers only have a couple of offensive elemental options to play with, if that many. I guess there are generic subclass attacks too but those are pretty limited, especially for mages. That's another area that I'm hoping Plus Disk will improve on.
I REALLY don't understand this comment. The characters have about as much elemental diversity as they did in LoT1. Yuugi lost Storm on Mt. Ooe, Kaguya lost Fire Rat's Robe, Yuuka lost Master Spark. Spells that were non elemental got changed to have an element and some spells had their elements changed (like Reisen's Discarder becoming a Dark spell instead of Fire) but their spell set is about as diverse in LoT2 as they were in LoT1. Now I only looked at my LoT1 party members and compared them to my party members in LoT2 but I can't imagine the other characters having completely different circumstances. LoT2 doesn't have non elemental attacks save for one exception. Thats about it.
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Most of the time it's really unnecessary to swap out just so you can have another person hitting a weakness, anyway. (It's mostly only relevant for bosses with gimmicks that will require very high damage or if your party doesn't have enough tools for getting past sky-high def or mnd, which is regularly a thing in LoT2, admittedly; it moreso means you should be prepared for that in advance with Kaguya or Meiling or Iku or something.) And you can sorta do it with subclasses sometimes, which isn't as much of an issue (you don't have to reequip or spend money in the library...)
In LoT2 you can still make parties capable of effectively tackling the entire game without switchouts, although it does constrain your party of 12 a little bit more. What's more notable than LoT1 is just that it's more realistic to actually swap in part-time members than it used to be (until postgame at least, your swapins aren't instantly behind by 20% exp... plus boss level constraints) , and they're significantly different enough than they used to be that it might be more useful of an option as well, but it's never really necessary if you design your party well.
Also, about good vs. bad party members, in LoT1 nearly every single character was really solid... apart from some of the Plus Disk people being wonky (but apart from Utsuho, not bad) and Mokou being a little underwhelming (although still basically fine if you really liked Mokou). There was more who just plain weren't viable postgame, though, I suppose. Like, Wriggle's poison stops working and Cirno gets both outclassed and her statuses stop working on almost any bosses, you can do a lot better offensively than Sakuya and SPD buffs aren't very strong postgame, etc. These guys are at least pretty solid party members until somewhere around 16F~20F though.
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Can someone give me a clear file of LoT2? I lost my saves way back and never really felt like beating it again.
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Can someone give me a clear file of LoT2? I lost my saves way back and never really felt like beating it again.
Here's mine. Have fun with how I've built my party members.
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That said :I REALLY don't understand this comment. The characters have about as much elemental diversity as they did in LoT1. Yuugi lost Storm on Mt. Ooe, Kaguya lost Fire Rat's Robe, Yuuka lost Master Spark. Spells that were non elemental got changed to have an element and some spells had their elements changed (like Reisen's Discarder becoming a Dark spell instead of Fire) but their spell set is about as diverse in LoT2 as they were in LoT1. Now I only looked at my LoT1 party members and compared them to my party members in LoT2 but I can't imagine the other characters having completely different circumstances. LoT2 doesn't have non elemental attacks save for one exception. Thats about it.
In retrospect I worded that kind of poorly. The lack of non-elemental attacks is the main thing I don't like since in practice I end up switching out half my lineup and then re-equipping them for boss fights, whereas in LoT1 I tended to have several core attackers with non-elemental attacks as well and I only usually switched out one or two members for a given boss fight. LoT2 in particular adds a lot of limited resources that make using a higher number of characters somewhat annoying on top of the reduced exp for those outside your party of 12. I guess you could say that going from 6 to 8 elements means you'll have less options when you're trying to exploit a boss's weakness but that's pretty minor (and I think LoT2 bosses probably have more weaknesses on average anyways).
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I was a little bored, and did some more datamining, and based off of what I found, there's definitely a lot more to the Plus Disk than what I originally thought (my findings will be kept in spoilers just in case).
Specifically, I found the floor names for roughly 11 basement floors (B1F-B11F, B1F through B3F already being in the game, and B4F having a title card but of course isn't accessible), but also the floor names for aboveground floors (22F-30F). The names are as follows, if anyone wants to translate them (though I'll include my impromptu translations, inaccurate as they may be):
22Ｆ 天の三宝を得た賢者の祭壇 [The Sage's Altar where one Obtains the Three Heavenly Treasures]
23Ｆ 四神が胎動する黄金の空道 [The Golden Skyway that the Four Seasonal Gods Foment]
24Ｆ 此岸を俯瞰する月長石の天路 [The Moonstone Celesphere that Overlooks This Life]
25Ｆ 世界を蝕む邪龍の顎門 [The Evil Dragon's Jaw which Gnaws at the World]
26Ｆ 東方の迷宮・大樹の終わりを見届ける激戦の間 [Labyrinth of Touhou - The Battlefield that Ascertains the Great Tree's End]
27Ｆ 光溢れる大樹の果て [The Great Tree's Terminus where Light Overflows]
28Ｆ 偉大なる存在に挑む定命者の間 [The Space where Fated Men Challenge the Grand Being]
29Ｆ 覇者が集う緋々色金の大戦場 [The Grand Scarlet Gold Battlefield where Champions Gather]
30Ｆ 終焉を観測し続けた聖者達の門 [The Saints' Gate that Endlessly Surveys Demise]
B1Ｆ 新たな旅立ちを見つめる怨念達の胎内 [The Womb of Grudges that Stare at New Departures]
B2Ｆ 絶望から産まれた少女が彷徨う黒穴 [The Black Hole Prowled by a Maiden Born of Despair]
B3Ｆ 失意の眼が刺す黒曜の通路 [The Passage where the Black Sun Stings the Eyes of Adversity]
B4Ｆ 地獄の釜から這い出る魍魎の広間 [The Hall Where Spirits and Demons Crawl from the Kettle of Hell]
B5Ｆ 時が静止した蒼の洞穴 [The Blue Cave where Time Stood Still]
B6Ｆ 魂が凍てつく樹氷の迷路 [The Maze of Frost-Covered Trees that Freeze the Soul]
B7Ｆ 光さえ閉じ込めた紺碧の牢獄 [The Azure Gaol that Imprisons Even Light]
B8Ｆ 意思を塞ぐ肉壁の回廊 [The Corridor of Flesh which Impedes Intentions]
B9Ｆ 遍く者を憎悪する腐肉の祭壇 [The Carrion Altar of Widely Hated Men (Alternatively, The Altar of Carrion Belonging to Much Hated Men)]
B10Ｆ 亡者の嘆きが響く鮮血の聖堂 [The Temple of Blood where the Cries of the Dead Resound]
B11Ｆ 終末を越えた異形達が踊り狂う幾界 [The Boundary where the Many Grotesque Dance in Ecstasy, Crossing the End]
Also found was what I assume is the template for the Endless Corridor floors:
無限の回廊 第%d階層
無限の回廊 第%d階準備構造
It might not be the biggest thing, but based off this, this might be a much bigger expansion than the original LoT's Plus Disk.
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LoT2 in particular adds a lot of limited resources that make using a higher number of characters somewhat annoying on top of the reduced exp for those outside your party of 12.
In LoT2 the EXP is a lot less of an issue, really; in LoT1 everyone out of the party would be 20% exp behind, but in LoT2 the only exp difference is those granted by learning the exp up passives, which a lot of people probably won't do a lot of until nearly the end of maingame. Past that, since all the bosses have their soft level caps, if you're aiming to not surpass those then exp is even less of a problem. (might take a little extra grind, but)
Also, damn, no wonder he's taking his sweet time with this expansion. It sounds massive o.o
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[datamining]
Can you datamine the list of new items and descriptions too?
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Can you datamine the list of new items and descriptions too?
I can give it a try, I think I've roughly found where at least the new sub equips are, but it'll take awhile to trawl through it. I'll post what I can once I finish trawling through it (gotta love playing around with hex editors sometimes).
EDIT: Nowhere near done, but my initial finds so far for subequips include items that boost a singular stat by 160%, 240%, 320%, and finally 400% (sorta like the first new items in LoT1's Plus Disk). Yeah this might take awhile.
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Well, I know that there is 1 extra page of main equips, 6(!) extra pages of sub equips, 1 extra page of materials and 6 extra pages of special items, so yeah it could get quite long.
I only need the original Japanese though; they're mostly going to be references to other things anyways and I like searching for that kind of stuff.
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Yeah, I'm still working on it, holy crap I feel like I've barely scratched the surface (I've done maybe roughly 1.3 pages of sub equips, barely started on the main equips, almost done with the materials, and nowhere near done with the special items, I've been jumping back and forth between the types just to sorta get an idea what's there).
Also mauve's old Shift-JIS text search tool is a massive help because it's easier to look through everything when it's in .txt form and I don't have to stare at a hex editor all day.
EDIT: Finished Materials (I found 20 of them, exactly one page's worth), going to do Main Equips and post both on a Google Docs. I'll add the Sub Equips and Special Items when I finish those up (most likely tomorrow, I'm not getting this done tonight for sure)
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Hmm...it's probably easier just to hack your save to give you all the items.
I'll try to do that tonight.
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Hmm...it's probably easier just to hack your save to give you all the items.
I'll try to do that tonight.
Mmm, that's always true, but I'm still going to get the rest of the text anyhow just to have it like... there for people to see and all. Speaking of...
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7EiMC40FKulUTRKRFFXYU56NU0&usp=sharing <--- The folder for right now, it only has Main Equips and Materials for the moment, but it includes the full extra page of each.
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List of my translation of main equips and their effects. See how many of them you recognize.
Krosis (MP+10)
Button of Undying (MP+15, MP Recovery+1)
Judas Pain (MP+15, MP Recovery+2)
Ethos of Bodybuilding (TP+12)
Ethos of Bodybuilding Vol. 2 (TP+15, HP Recovery+3%)
Ethos of Bodybuilding Last Volume (TP+20, HP Recovery+6%)
Luck & Pluck (Base ATK+1.0, Defeated enemies item drop+20%)
Mariquis de Sade's Joy (Status infliction rate+15%) - this is from some very early Nitro+ game called "Vampirdzhija Vjedogonia" which seems untranslated
Egg (All base stats+0.5, Occasionally auto-recovers from status)
Exalted Falchion (Damage+20% when hitting weakness)
La Pucelle d'Orl?ans (Base ATK+1.5, Base DEF+1.0, Base SPD+0.5) - the description of it being a sword is from Touhou Maiden, but I figured the correct word sequence makes more sense than "Orleans la Pucelle"
Force Booster (Base MAG+1.5, Base MND+1.0, Base SPD+0.5)
Dream Aura (Reduce all damage by maxHP/8%, slight chance to nullify damage above that)
Super Drill (Ignore 25% of target DEF/MND)
Blood Sword (Convert 4% damage as HP healing)
Angel Slime Hat (Defeated enemies experience+10%)
Ancient Scepter (Equipped character's buffs, debuffs and status ailment strength+12%)
Tokugawa Doubling Gold (MP+12, TP+12, All Base Stats+1.2) - This item is beyond me. It's something from "Widenyo" that has no translation, seems to have two names both showing up on the web (or maybe this is an enhanced version not yet added to Alicesoft wiki), and the name makes no sense to me. Help~
Avoid Ring (When evading attack, slightly debuffs all enemies and buffs all allies)
Infinity Bandana (Occasionally nullifies MP cost)
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List of my translation of main equips and their effects. See how many of them you recognize.
Dream Aura (Reduce all damage by maxHP/8%, slight chance to nullify damage above that)
I'm not sure I understand what this actually means but it sounds like it might be OP on like, tank Komachi or HP build Renko? but yeah I'm sorta confused. The Blood Sword
sounds insanely good for the bulky attackers who can put out higher numbers, though, and in general several of these equips are... quite a thing. Hina's going to rip my team apart with her +15% accuracy debuffs BUT I DON'T CARE I LOVE IT
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Now that I look at the list closer, it looks like
Blood Sword
's effect only applies on regular attacks. I'm sure I got Dream Aura
's written effect correct, however. (Of course whether it is/will be correctly implemented is anyone's guess)
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So miko is basically the lovechild of renko/nitori and byakureni in brokenness
holy crap
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Now that I look at the list closer, it looks like Blood Sword
's effect only applies on regular attacks. I'm sure I got Dream Aura
's written effect correct, however. (Of course whether it is/will be correctly implemented is anyone's guess)
Iku confirmed for becoming a vampire in plus disk. Are you ready to GET IT UP
Also it's mostly just that I'm not sure how to actually parse what's written for that item. All damage flat reduced by an amount that is 8% of your max hp? because yeah holy shit. It may be possible that as numbers inflate, though, HP tanks start taking utterly stupid amount of damage due to their lower defenses, so they might need it? Well, Komachi might, Renko's defenses still aren't -that- bad.
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So I'm not done with the special items quiiiite yet, but I quickly scanned through and discovered that the rest of what's left all have roughly the same effect as the ones I'd already copied over, just for different characters (I'll still copy over the rest, but I figured I might as well throw up what I've done so far).
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11d1QXj3mExIckk3xC-fyux7NHT1nxn_0XLdhkZJjj8A/edit?usp=sharing
I'll add the rest in awhile and edit this post when I'm done with that, but that covers what to expect from the special items. Sub equips I'll wait on until I actually copy those all over since it's not like with special items where there are similar items with only slightly different effects.
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Summary:
Jet Black Fragment
* Occasionally reduces TP penalty for dying in battle. Rate of reduction and activation depends on the number of fragments you have.
Infinity Gem
* Used to exchange stuff with Akyuu
Weapon Recipe 1-4
* Recipe for equipments.
[Stat] Orb
* (The description given isn't very clear, but I'm guessing they're a second set of boosting items for characters who already used 10 gems for that stats)
[Stronger set of exp/item/drop boosters]
* Exactly what they say on the tin
Tome of Vigorous Training - [stats]
* Usable on characters who have max level on the corresponding stat boosting skill. Rewrites it with "[stat] second boost" skill. (No idea how this interacts with Rinnosuke's high boost skills, or how these skills work to begin with)
Tome of Seasoned Weathering - [stats]
* Same as above basically; unlocks a third tier of boosting skills
[Plant] Sigils
* One each for 22F, 27F, 28F and B11F
Pagoda Parts A/B
* Shou is littering again
Kokoro's Mask - [emotion]
* For recruiting Kokoro most likely
Future of Non-von Neumann Computers Vol. [9-12]
* I have no idea
Toyosatomimi's Seal of Seven Stars
* It looks like this allows you to go further below the dungeon or something
Amulet for the Giant Five-elements Circle
* Looks like your generic quest MacGauffins
Azure/Purple Shock Spell
* ditto
[Various subclass]'s Proof
* Swordmaster, Grand Magician, Appraiser, Elementalist, Ninja, Oracle
[some names]
* more subclass unlocking: Protection of Ame-no-Murakumo, Dragon God's Power, *WINNER*
[some more names]
* Mass collectible items that increase damage for a specific character by 1% and reduce damage by 0.5% per item up to 50 (any more have no effect)
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Rest of the special items are done, updating that document. The rest are just these items though:
[some more names]
* Mass collectible items that increase damage for a specific character by 1% and reduce damage by 0.5% per item up to 50 (any more have no effect)
Also IIRC these items also unlock new skills for those characters, based off of what I read, so they do more than just make that character deal more damage and take less.
Also I completely replaced the document from before, so the link's different (I updated it on the above post)
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Future of Non-von Neumann Computers Vol. [9-12]
* I have no idea
My guess is that those are for recruiting Tokiko.
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I was a little bored, and did some more datamining, and based off of what I found, there's definitely a lot more to the Plus Disk than what I originally thought (my findings will be kept in spoilers just in case).
Specifically, I found the floor names for roughly 11 basement floors (B1F-B11F, B1F through B3F already being in the game, and B4F having a title card but of course isn't accessible), but also the floor names for aboveground floors (22F-30F). The names are as follows, if anyone wants to translate them (though I'll include my impromptu translations, inaccurate as they may be):
22Ｆ 天の三宝を得た賢者の祭壇 [The Sage's Altar where one Obtains the Three Heavenly Treasures]
23Ｆ 四神が胎動する黄金の空道 [The Golden Skyway that the Four Seasonal Gods Foment]
24Ｆ 此岸を俯瞰する月長石の天路 [The Moonstone Celesphere that Overlooks This Life]
25Ｆ 世界を蝕む邪龍の顎門 [The Evil Dragon's Jaw which Gnaws at the World]
26Ｆ 東方の迷宮・大樹の終わりを見届ける激戦の間 [Labyrinth of Touhou - The Battlefield that Ascertains the Great Tree's End]
27Ｆ 光溢れる大樹の果て [The Great Tree's Terminus where Light Overflows]
28Ｆ 偉大なる存在に挑む定命者の間 [The Space where Fated Men Challenge the Grand Being]
29Ｆ 覇者が集う緋々色金の大戦場 [The Grand Scarlet Gold Battlefield where Champions Gather]
30Ｆ 終焉を観測し続けた聖者達の門 [The Saints' Gate that Endlessly Surveys Demise]
B1Ｆ 新たな旅立ちを見つめる怨念達の胎内 [The Womb of Grudges that Stare at New Departures]
B2Ｆ 絶望から産まれた少女が彷徨う黒穴 [The Black Hole Prowled by a Maiden Born of Despair]
B3Ｆ 失意の眼が刺す黒曜の通路 [The Passage where the Black Sun Stings the Eyes of Adversity]
B4Ｆ 地獄の釜から這い出る魍魎の広間 [The Hall Where Spirits and Demons Crawl from the Kettle of Hell]
B5Ｆ 時が静止した蒼の洞穴 [The Blue Cave where Time Stood Still]
B6Ｆ 魂が凍てつく樹氷の迷路 [The Maze of Frost-Covered Trees that Freeze the Soul]
B7Ｆ 光さえ閉じ込めた紺碧の牢獄 [The Azure Gaol that Imprisons Even Light]
B8Ｆ 意思を塞ぐ肉壁の回廊 [The Corridor of Flesh which Impedes Intentions]
B9Ｆ 遍く者を憎悪する腐肉の祭壇 [The Carrion Altar of Widely Hated Men (Alternatively, The Altar of Carrion Belonging to Much Hated Men)]
B10Ｆ 亡者の嘆きが響く鮮血の聖堂 [The Temple of Blood where the Cries of the Dead Resound]
B11Ｆ 終末を越えた異形達が踊り狂う幾界 [The Boundary where the Many Grotesque Dance in Ecstasy, Crossing the End]
Also found was what I assume is the template for the Endless Corridor floors:
無限の回廊 第%d階層
無限の回廊 第%d階準備構造
It might not be the biggest thing, but based off this, this might be a much bigger expansion than the original LoT's Plus Disk.
22F:Maybe the three orbs of time item drops? Or Murakumo,Magatama and mirror drops?
25F:99% sure boss will be a dragon
26F:that sounds like a 20F or 30F name IMO
30F:Calling it, bonus boss will be a divine being,Maybe gensokyo dragon or WINNER like boss
B11F:What Kind of unspeakable horror lurks there?
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30F:Calling it, bonus boss will be a divine being,Maybe gensokyo dragon or WINNER like boss
It's implied from the special items that both a Dragon and WINNER are going to be bonus bosses
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It's implied from the special items that both a Dragon and WINNER are going to be bonus bosses
as long as it doesnt have the same old sprites like yuuka or shikieiki, i admit it looked awesome and wouldn't mind seeing the same sprite again
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Hot damn, that's a lot more info than I expected to be getting from the trial. Sick. <3 The next thing I suppose would be seeing if hacking yourself the various Proofs does unlock the subclasses for skill inspection, which sounds likely. (Well, it's moreso whether they're skilled out. They're probably like the characters; descriptions in, but crashes the battle menu.)
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Hot damn, that's a lot more info than I expected to be getting from the trial. Sick. <3 The next thing I suppose would be seeing if hacking yourself the various Proofs does unlock the subclasses for skill inspection, which sounds likely. (Well, it's moreso whether they're skilled out. They're probably like the characters; descriptions in, but crashes the battle menu.)
I have confirmed that hacking in the Proofs shows the subclasses in on the menu (also giving myself all these new items uh... kinda unlocked a bunch of the achievements, so that's something else I could be mining for, which I can also do by just hacking in that I have these achievements).
I'm going to upload a save file with all items and achievements hacked in shortly, this is way easier than what I've been doing with the file hacking to be honest. Thank you Jaxter for the postgame clear file that I've been messing around with to see all this stuff, by the way.
EDIT: Here ya go, I didn't give 100% of all the subequips but every item is at least visible (you just have either 1 or 0 of each) and every achievement is unlocked and visible.
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I had a question about Maribel: does her "turn buffs into debuffs" skill ignore the 50% limit for debuffs (e.g. if an enemy has 100% ATK buff is it treated as a 100% debuff?). Also, how much does her DIY Novice Border skill heal?
Super excited about the new patch. Has anyone found the locations for the characters base statistics (I know EthanSilver did it for all characters not in the plus disk, but I don't know if it's changed... if not, it might be easy to extrapolate to the other characters and figure out their base stats and stuff)?
On the wiki, I was the one who added the letter ratings to characters stats. It's still not a rigorous methodology or anything, and there are still some that are wrong, but info about changes in stats would be helpful (or any advice... does anybody know the formula used for the weighted average of elemental affinities?).
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List of my translation of main equips and their effects. See how many of them you recognize.
Krosis (MP+10)
Button of Undying (MP+15, MP Recovery+1)
Judas Pain (MP+15, MP Recovery+2)
Ethos of Bodybuilding (TP+12)
Ethos of Bodybuilding Vol. 2 (TP+15, HP Recovery+3%)
Ethos of Bodybuilding Last Volume (TP+20, HP Recovery+6%)
Luck & Pluck (Base ATK+1.0, Defeated enemies item drop+20%)
Mariquis de Sade's Joy (Status infliction rate+15%) - this is from some very early Nitro+ game called "Vampirdzhija Vjedogonia" which seems untranslated
Egg (All base stats+0.5, Occasionally auto-recovers from status)
Exalted Falchion (Damage+20% when hitting weakness)
La Pucelle d'Orl?ans (Base ATK+1.5, Base DEF+1.0, Base SPD+0.5) - the description of it being a sword is from Touhou Maiden, but I figured the correct word sequence makes more sense than "Orleans la Pucelle"
Force Booster (Base MAG+1.5, Base MND+1.0, Base SPD+0.5)
Dream Aura (Reduce all damage by maxHP/8%, slight chance to nullify damage above that)
Super Drill (Ignore 25% of target DEF/MND)
Blood Sword (Convert 4% damage as HP healing)
Angel Slime Hat (Defeated enemies experience+10%)
Ancient Scepter (Equipped character's buffs, debuffs and status ailment strength+12%)
Tokugawa Doubling Gold (MP+12, TP+12, All Base Stats+1.2) - This item is beyond me. It's something from "Widenyo" that has no translation, seems to have two names both showing up on the web (or maybe this is an enhanced version not yet added to Alicesoft wiki), and the name makes no sense to me. Help~
Avoid Ring (When evading attack, slightly debuffs all enemies and buffs all allies)
Infinity Bandana (Occasionally nullifies MP cost)
Button of Undying
is from Daibanchou - it's a bit of a spoiler. Zanma Gou, Ryoga's brother, has been carrying it since the Hell Hole opened and recharging it with his power. Which is what makes him The Weakest Man in the World. He equips it for the final battle and becomes about as strong as Ryouga.
Widenyo is translated, but I don't have that item. There's no other versions of the game to my knowledge. Widenyo itself is a remake of Mamanyonyo. The closest items I have are: Golden Bear, Fabled Golden Bear, and Gold Cat. The Golden [Power] Bear is a mainstay of Alicesoft titles, so I doubt that's it. Tokugawa Ieyasu from Sengoku Rance isn't a character in Widenyo either. What's the Japanese of that item?
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Button of Undying
is from Daibanchou - it's a bit of a spoiler. Zanma Gou, Ryoga's brother, has been carrying it since the Hell Hole opened and recharging it with his power. Which is what makes him The Weakest Man in the World. He equips it for the final battle and becomes about as strong as Ryouga.
Ah; so that's the Immortal School Badge from ThLaby1.
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Widenyo is translated, but I don't have that item. There's no other versions of the game to my knowledge. Widenyo itself is a remake of Mamanyonyo. The closest items I have are: Golden Bear, Fabled Golden Bear, and Gold Cat. The Golden [Power] Bear is a mainstay of Alicesoft titles, so I doubt that's it. Tokugawa Ieyasu from Sengoku Rance isn't a character in Widenyo either. What's the Japanese of that item?
Original Japanese:
徳川倍増金
装備すると隠し装備ベースが出現し、装備品が以前の倍以上装備可能になるという奇跡のアイテム。
ｷｷｶｲｶｲがたまに落とすが、ver1.01以前では300時間プレイしても一つも手に入らない人もいた。
以降verでは救済措置が取られ100時間で大体一つは手に入るようになったが、依然として激レア。
Translation of its description:
A miraculous item that, when equipped, allows access to another equipment page, effective doubling the amount equipment slots.
"Kikikaikai" occasionally drops it, but before Ver 1.01 there are people who have not obtained a single one even after 300 hours of play.
With some remedial features in later versions it's mostly obtainable in about 100 hours, but it's still extremely rare.
The problem with this item is that Alicesoft Wiki lists a similar name called 徳川倍像金
(note the fourth kanji), which does the same thing and looks like dropped by the same monster, yet when I tried to search online there are people using both names, so I don't really know what gives.
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Ah. I only have 25 hours, so that would explain why I've never seen such a rare item. It's possible the wiki has a typo. Actually, for consistency, I should try asking Maria (the Widenyo translator) what the name is, since she should be able to get the proper translation as well.
Which reminds me, I need to do that for the flipskirt dagger as well, since she's also translating Rance Quest. Are there any other Rance Quest (or 5d, or 6, or anything without a public patch) items that I should ask about?
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On the wiki, I was the one who added the letter ratings to characters stats. It's still not a rigorous methodology or anything, and there are still some that are wrong, but info about changes in stats would be helpful (or any advice... does anybody know the formula used for the weighted average of elemental affinities?).
Here you go (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Characters#Weighting_Formula). I never did go back and try to readjust everything according to the talk page but I guess someone else could take up the torch at this point.
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To be honest, I really need the item names in text, because I don't have a Japanese inputter, and I can't copy and paste off the game, but I often need to do multiple googles and perhaps with different forms to figure out the corresponding references. If someone can teach me how to extract those things, that'd be greatly helpful.
Anyways I'll work on the character's additional skills for now at least. I added an asterisk for skills that do not (seem to) require the character's endless corridor items. Note that Rinnosuke and Momiji's extra skills are not actually there at the moment (hence I don't know their level or SKP requirement). Also I don't have data for new characters because they're not in that save file; if someone can hack in those characters as well it would be helpful.
Reimu
Fantasy Seal - Blink (10*16): Whenever skill holder takes a turn, increase "Fantasy Seal - Blink" counter by 1. When the skill holder is in the front, increase skill holder's all stats by (counter*5)%, and all other frontliner's SPD by (counter*3)%. The counter caps at SLv.
Barrier Expert (1*50): Adds paralysis effect with medium accuracy and strength to all offensive actions
Marisa
Hakkoro Charge (1*70): Whenever skill holder acts in the front or recovers in the back, increase "Hakkoro Charge" counter by 1. Skill holder receives a damage bonus of (counter*3)% on all offensive actions. The counter caps at 33.
Magic Drain Missile (7*10): Recovers SLv MP when Magic Missile successfully inflicts damage.
Rinnosuke
Original Original Owner of Ame-no-Murakumo (?*?): But he really just was an owner. All skill holder's attacks debuff all stats slightly, and all skill holder's auxiliary spells buff all stats slightly.
Keine
Impervious Formation Change (1*50): When the skill holder switches in an ally from the backline while having at least 1 TP, that character will have an ATB of 9999, and skill holder's TP will be reduced by 1.
Were-Hakutaku change (7*10): Increase skill holder's all base stats by (SLv*1).
Momiji
Wolf Tengu's Sword and Shield (?*?): When the skill holder uses a spell, increase ATK by (SLv*3%). When skill holder performs a formation change, increase DEF/MND by (SLv*3%).
Youkai Mountain Alliance? (2*25): When 2 or more of Aya, Momiji, Nitori and Hina are in the front, increase all stats by (SLv*7%) for every member on the front excluding self. This skill does not take effect until at least one unit acts.
Youmu
Asura's Blood (1*60): Skill holder receives a damage bonus inversely proportional to her HP, to a maximum of +110%.
Hakugyoukurou's Master and Servant (2*25): When Youmu and Yuyuko are either in the frontline or backline, increase skill holder's all stats by (Slv*5)%.
Kogasa
The sweet taste of other people's terror (1*60): When skill holder receives a turn, slightly recovers HP for all frontliners. The amount of HP recovered is increased by the number of allies or enemies with Terror status. It is also increased in event battles.
Terror enough to cause death (1*50): When using one of Kogasa's own spell cards on target(s) inflicted with terror status, the damage is doubled.
Rumia
Great Piercing Attack (1*60): When the skill holder has learned Piercing Attack as well, its effect is strengthened. More defense-piercing damage will be inflicted.
All-covering Robe of Darkness (1*60): Moonlight Ray will inflict all status ailments except debuffs. Dark Side of the Moon will inflict debuffs on all stats.
I'm fine even by myself (1*50): If no character in the party of 12 has learned the skill "Team ⑨", increase skill holder's all stats by 16%.
Cirno
*Blizzard Petal Gale (5*8): When the skill holder is KO'd, inflict (SLv*10)% SPD debuff on all enemies. This will always succeed regardless of enemies' SPD debuff resistance.
Avenge the Tomboy (1*70): When the skill holder uses a SPD debuff inflicting spell and the debuff fails, inflicts the SPD debuff at 1/5 strength regardless of resistance.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
I'm fine even by myself (1*50): If no character in the party of 12 has learned the skill "Team ⑨", increase skill holder's all stats by 16%.
Minoriko
Myraid Goddess of Good Harvest (1*75): Using either Sweet Potato Room or Owatoshi Harvest will also activate the effect of the other spell (treated as Lv1).
Protection of Plants (1*40): Regenerates HP at 6% per turn. This effect can regenerate HP up to 150% of the character's MaxHP.
Komachi
Enma and Shinigami (2*25): When Komachi and Eiki are either in the frontline or backline, increase skill holder's all stats by (SLv*5)%.
Shinigami's Scythe (1*66): Increase Narrow Confine of Avici's damage in proportion to Komachi's ATK, and increase Short Life Expectency, Ferriage in the Deep Fog and Scythe that Chooses the dead in proportion to Komachi's MAG.
Chen
Shikigami's Continued Assult (1*75): After the skill holder attacks, increase "Continued Assult" counter by 1. When the skill holder attacks, increase ATK by (counter*8)%. When any frontliner other than the skill holder acts, remove the counter.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Nitori
Youkai Mountain Alliance? (2*25): When 2 or more of Aya, Momiji, Nitori and Hina are in the front, increase all stats by (SLv*7%) for every member on the front excluding self. This skill does not take effect until at least one unit acts.
Special Stun Gadget (5*25): Spellcard / MP cost 12 / All enemies WND element / Physical Attack / Deals WND-elemental damage to all enemies and inflicts PAR. The PAR is highly accurate and lasts quite long as well. However, the user will also be inflicted with PAR. What a defective item.
Parsee
Jealousy Bomber (1*40): Large Box and Small Box will inflict high damage more often.
Green Eyed Monster (1*80): Increase the strength of all status ailments and debuffs inflicted by the user holder by 50%.
Wriggle
Swarm of Shining Bugs (1*50): If any ally or enemy is inflicted with PSN, increase skill holder's DEF and MND by 25%.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
I'm fine even by myself (1*50): If no character in the party of 12 has learned the skill "Team ⑨", increase skill holder's all stats by 16%.
Kaguya
Power of the hidden Princess of the Moon (1*50): When the skill holder is in the frontline, all other frontliner's attacks will ignore 25% of the enemy's DEF/MND.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Mokou
Imperishable Shooting (1*80): For every TP reduced, increase skill holder's ATK by 1%.
Aya
Proof of the Fastest (1*80): For every attack evaded, increase "Proof of the Fastest" counter by 1. Increase skill holder's SPD by (counter*4)% and damage by (counter*12)%. The counter caps at 5. It will not disappear from being switched out or damaged, and will continue for the rest of the battle.
Watchful Eye of the Crow Tengu (4*15): Increase skill holder's Evasion by 10. <- I'm going to guess that this is meant to be (Slv*10), but so far that's what the description says.
Youkai Mountain Alliance? (2*25): When 2 or more of Aya, Momiji, Nitori and Hina are in the front, increase all stats by (SLv*7%) for every member on the front excluding self. This skill does not take effect until at least one unit acts.
Mystia
Strong Sight Narrowing (1*50): When the skil holder is in the front, increase all frontliner's evasion by 20. When an enemy misses an attack while the skill holder is in the front, that enemy's all stats are slightly debuffed.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
I'm fine even by myself (1*50): If no character in the party of 12 has learned the skill "Team ⑨", increase skill holder's all stats by 16%.
Kasen
Four Deva of Mt. Ooe? (2*25): When 2 or more of Kasen, Yuugi and Suika are in the front, increase all stats by (Slvl*7)% for every member on the front excluding self. This skill does not take effect until at least one unit acts.
Summon Dragon and Tiger (5*25): Spellcard / MP Cost 6 / Self SPI element / Auxillary Action / Summons a pet dragon and tiger, and grants Kasen the effects "Tiger of the Front" and "Dragon of the Back". "Tiger of the Front" will repeat an attack 25% of the time, and "Dragon of the Back" will reduce damage by 25%. When either activates, the corresponding effect may disappear.
Nazrin
*Protection of Bishamonten - Wisdom (4*12): Increase base MAG by (Slv*3).
*Protection of Bishamonten - Gale (4*12): Increase base SPD by (Slv*4). Will not take effect if Protection of Bishamonten - Wisdom is also learned.
*Extra Attack (2*12): If the skill holder chooses to attack, concentrate or uses a Spell Card, there is a (Slv*16)% chance that the action is repeated. If the action consumed MP, the extra action will not consume MP. <- Not related to Nazrin, but ALL instance of Extra Attack now costs 12 points per level, up from 7.
The Wits of the Tiny Clever Commander (1*75): When skill holder attacks an enemy, the damage is doubled 25% of the time.
Hina
Sorrows of Banished Dolls (1*50): When the skill holder takes a turn, if any frontliner has a status ailment other than debuffs, reduce the strength of those ailments by half.
Youkai Mountain Alliance? (2*25): When 2 or more of Aya, Momiji, Nitori and Hina are in the front, increase all stats by (SLv*7%) for every member on the front excluding self. This skill does not take effect until at least one unit acts.
Orin
Vengeful Cat Spirit's Erratic Steps (1*120): Increase the activation rate of Extra Attack.
Rekindling of Dead Ashes (1*80): When the skill holder attacks, ignore 30% of the target(s)'s DEF/MND.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Okuu
Self Tokamak (1*88): Removes the side-effects of Overheating and Uncontained Nuclear Reaction.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Satori
Extra Experience of Trauma (1*70): When the skill holder takes a turn, inflict damage to all enemies equal to (skill holder's current HP/2). This damage will never KO any enemies.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Yuugi
Dreadful Raging Waves (1*40): When the skill holder takes a turn, any frontliner with full HP will receive a slight ATK and DEF buff.
Ability to Cause Supernatural Phenomenom (2*30): When the skill holder attacks while having full MP, increase damage by (Slv*15)%.
Four Deva of Mt. Ooe? (2*25): When 2 or more of Kasen, Yuugi and Suika are in the front, increase all stats by (Slvl*7)% for every member on the front excluding self. This skill does not take effect until at least one unit acts.
Meiling:
Roc-Killing Fist (1*70): When attacked by rare enemies, there's a chance to counter with resistance ignoring PAR-inducing attack. The chance is increased consumerate with the number of SDM residents in the front.
Spiral Light Step (1*45): Reduce damage taken by 10%.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Alice:
*Doll Mobility Improvements (4*8): When skill holder attacks, ingores (Slv*10)% of the target(s)'s DEF/MND.
Precise Operation Dolls (1*70): When attacking, use the lower of the target's DEF/MND 50% of the time.
Emergency Treatment Dolls (1*50): When skill holder takes a turn, regenerate HP by (MaxHP-CurrentHP)/5.
Patchouli
Great Library's Infinite Collections (1*50): When using skills(??), reduce MP cost by half. <- pretty sure it's supposed to be Spell but whatever
Athema Relieving Medicine (2*35): Increase base HP by (Slv*10).
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Eirin
Eirin's Special Rock-Solid Medicine (10*10): Increase all elemental affinity by (Slv*6) and all ailment resistance by (Slv*4).
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Reisen
Red Eyes of Sun and Storms (1*50): If "People of the Moon" is learned, completely ignore DEF/MND 25% of the time.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Sanae
Miracle of Fafrotskies (1*60): When skill holder receives a turn, recover MP for all frontliner slightly. For every frontliner with 50% or less MP, increase amount of recovery.
Sacrificing Shrine Maiden (1*40): When Last Wish activates, all backliner also receives half of its effect, and Moriya's Protection's activation rate is increased.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Iku
Lightning Fish (6*10): Increase base SPD by (SLv*4).
Thunder in the Abstruse Clouds (1*40): Increase PAR resistance by 128. When the skill holder takes a turn, removes PAR from all frontliners, and for each character affected this way, increase both skill holder and that character's all stats by 20%.
Orb of the Five-Clawed Dragon (2*66): Increase base MAG by (Slv*10).
Suika
Earth Spirits -Gathering- (1*40): When the skill holder takes a turn, any frontliner with full HP will receive a slight MAG and MND buff.
Pandemonium of Dissipating Rain: When the skill holder attacks while having full HP, increase damage by (Slv*5)%.
Four Deva of Mt. Ooe? (2*25): When 2 or more of Kasen, Yuugi and Suika are in the front, increase all stats by (Slvl*7)% for every member on the front excluding self. This skill does not take effect until at least one unit acts.
Ran
Wizard Fox's Thoughts (10*6): Increase skill holder's MaxMP by Slv.
Kokkuri-san's Contract (1*60): If Super-hard Fast Arithmetic is learned, there's a 40% chance that Banquet of 12 General Gods and Eight Million Holy Boards will not halve its effect on backliners.
Fried Tofu Power Up (5*10): Increase all base stats by (Slv*2).
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Remilia
Vampiric Attack (1*50): When skill holder attacks, convert 8% damage as healing.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Piercing Attack (2*5): If the user attacks an enemy with very high defenses, some of the damage will pass through and ignore a part of the enemy's defense.
Sakuya
Jack the Ludo Bile (1*30): When the skill holder has a SPD buff, any ATK buff received will increase in potency by (current SPD buff/3).
Jack the Ripper's Silver Knife (1*60): When the skill holder takes a turn, increase "Jack the Ripper" counter by 1. When attacking, increase damage by (counter*5)%. When taking damage, the counter amount is halved. The counter caps at 20.
Sakuya's World (1*60): Increase the strength of Private Square's PAR effect. Also, when skill holder is in the front, occasionally nullify resistance ignoring PAR attacks.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Kanako
Divine Authority (5*25): When using Mad Dance on Medoteko, increase Onbashira counter by 1. Skill holder receives a damage bonus of (counter*10)%, and reduces all damage taken by (counter*5)%. The counter caps at (Slv). The effect does not disappear until the battle ends.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Suwako
Kero Kero Hibernation (5*30): When skill holder recovers in the backline, increase Kero Kero Hibernation counter by 1. Skill holder receives a damage bonus of (counter*20)%. The counter caps at (Slv). The effect disappears upon any offensive action.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Tenshi
*Enduring Celestial (1*15): Skill holder receives a DEF/MND buff of 20% at the start of battle. This will take effect even if the skill holder is in the back.
More Enduring Celestial (1*60): Skill holder receives a DEF/MND buff of 30% at the start of battle. This will take effect even if the skill holder is in the back. This effect stacks with Enduring Celestial.
Keypoints of Defense (1*60): When skill holder is attacked, receive a DEF/MND buff of 8%.
Seven Celestial Peaches (4*30): Increase base HP by (SLv*7).
Flandre
Controls on Lunacy and Destruction (1*60): Nullify Starbow Break, Forbidden Fruit and Laevatein's side-effect 50% of the time.
Vampiric Attack (1*50): When skill holder attacks, convert 8% damage as healing.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Yuyuko
Saigyou Ayakashi's Seal (4*25): Incrase Base HP by (SLv*10).
Hakugyoukurou's Master and Servant (2*25): When Youmu and Yuyuko are either in the frontline or backline, increase skill holder's all stats by (Slv*5)%.
Yuuka
Dangerous Paradise (1*150): If the skill holder concentrates while having learned Extra Attack, it will always activate on the next action.
Protection of Plants (1*40): Regenerates HP at 6% per turn. This effect can regenerate HP up to 150% of the character's MaxHP.
Yukari
First Category Perpetual Motion device (1*70): Reduce the rate of decay of buffs on the skill holder.
Proof of Kinship (1*66): Skill holder's synergy skill will work at half strength for all synergy partners who are in the backline.
Byakuren
*Sutra - Infinite Mana (3*25): When the user takes a turn, recover MP by (SLv).
*Sutra - Perfect Resistance (10*7): Increase skill holder's all elemental affinities by (SLv*6). This skill has no effect if Sutra - Infinite Mana is learned.
*Sutra - Strenghten Immunity (10*7): Increase skill holder's all ailment resistance by (Slv*4). This skill has no effect if either Sutra - Infinite Mana or Sutra - Perfect Resistance are learned.
Blood of Superhuman (1*120): When the skill holder is healed by a friendly spell, recover all HP regardless of the spell's strength.
Eiki
Ability to Tell Black from White (1*80): Cleansed Crystal Mirror's effect will activate even if skill holder is in the backlines. If Skill holder is in the front, Rod of Remorse's effect will extend to the whole party, and skill holder will receive double benefit from it.
Renko
Starting Point of Assault (1*70): When skill holder inflicts damage on an enemy, also inflict the "Starting Point of Assault" effect. Enemies with the effect suffers 25% increased damage from all allies' attacks. When the enemy takes a turn, remove the effect.
Maribel
Vision Sharing (1*70): When the skill holder receives any buffs, all frontliners will receive the 1/4 of the same buff. The effect is halved if the skill holder is in the back. Renko receives twice the effect from this skill.
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Dear god. Some of these skills are good enough to completely change my mind on whether or not I want to use someone.
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Dear god. Some of these skills are good enough to completely change my mind on whether or not I want to use someone.
To be honest though, Endless Corridor seems more like the kind of stuff you do when you have done absolutely EVERYTHING else, so stuff in there have to be broken.
Besides, it's very possible that these will undergo further changes when they're actually available.
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To be honest, I really need the item names in text, because I don't have a Japanese inputter, and I can't copy and paste off the game, but I often need to do multiple googles and perhaps with different forms to figure out the corresponding references. If someone can teach me how to extract those things, that'd be greatly helpful.
Usually for this type of thing I use a combination of Translation Aggregator and ITH or AGTH, but when I tried to test those out on LoT2, it just endlessly throws text into the hooker into it literally crashes. If anything, I do have a text dump that's completely unorganized and has everything, if anyone wants to take a look at it (it's structured similarly to the text dump from qaz's dumper but since I don't have his tools it's not quite the same, oh well), I should try to get the rest of the subequips done at least but for now I'm just going to throw up the text dump so that there's something.
Do note that since this is a text dump, it doesn't have the original game's stuff picked out, so there'll be lots of duplicates.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7EiMC40FKulRThvekprVnJDZzA
EDIT: The above link was quickly updated by me to remove pretty much all the junk strings from the text dump, because there's a lot of just junk in there.
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Alright, so I asked.
The "flipskirt dagger" (短剣スカートメクリ) is apparently a "high level pun", and she has been avoiding it so far. So there's no "official" translation for it yet, but maybe 3 years from now when LoT2+ is fully released. I'll ask then, and maybe she's thought of something by then.
The Widenyo item was translated as "Tokugawa Statue". I have a screenshot for posterity, including the picture: http://i.imgur.com/RmPBHRQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/acKeIav.jpg and the original name is "徳川倍像金". Maybe the name changed with the patch, hence it being used both ways. I do not know.
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Subclasses. Note that I changed a couple of names around from the Special Items post.
Swordmaster - HP, TP, ATK, DEF
Asura's Stance (1*25): Increase Base ATK and decrease MaxMP and Base HP.
Iai Slash (5*3): Same as Warrior
Hell Pyre (5*3): Same as Warrior
Moon Shadow Flash (5*8): 5MP/Single/NTR/Physical/Acc+30/Subclass spell that inflicts NTR damage on a single enemy. Damage multiplier is high. If damage is successfully inflicted, the user's MP is recovered by 1, and all other frontliners may also recover 1 MP with a 50% probability. <- I took a bit of liberty with the name; "moon under tree" looks really like some poetic description of the moon's shadow
Samidare Slash (5*8): 6MP/Row/CLD/Physical/Acc-6/Subclass spell that inflicts CLD damage on a row of enemies. An area attack with good balance of power and delay.
Swordmaster's Stance (5*8): 4MP/Self/SPI/Auxillary/Subclass spell that reduces the user's DEF/MND but increases ATK.
Archmage - MP, TP, MAG, MND
Invitation to the World of Mind (1*25): Increase Base MAG and decrease MaxMP and Base HP.
Penetrator (5*3): Same as Sorcerer
Aspiration (5*3): Same as Sorcerer
Southern Cross (5*8): 10MP/All/CLD/Magic/Acc+50/Subclass spell that inflicts CLD damage on all enemies. A spell with good damage multipliers and hits all enemies, but MP cost is high compared to its power.
Execution (5*8): 11MP/All/DRK/Magic/Acc+10/Subclass spell that inflicts DRK damage on all enemies. A spell that can damage even high MND enemies, but MP cost is high compared to its power, and the delay is also high.
Archmage's Incantation (5*8): 4MP/Self/SPI/Auxillary/Subclass spell that reduces th euser's DEF/MND but increases MAG.
Appraiser - HP, MP, TP, Aliment resistance
The Spartan Way (3*4): Increase experience received by (SLv*1)%. If the skill holder is not in the front, the effect is greatly reduced. <- I figure that this is more familiar to you guys than "lying on firewood and eating and tasting gall", which means something like "treating oneself badly hoping to lead to improving oneself" anyways
Basics of Trading (3*4): Increase money received by (SLv*1)%. If the skill holder is not in the front, the effect is greatly reduced.
An Eye for Beauty (3*4): Increase item drop rate by (SLv*2)%. If the skill holder is not in the front, the effect is greatly reduced.
Kill Bonus - Experience (1*10): Increase experience received from enemies killed by the skill holder by 10%.
Kill Bonus - Money (1*10): Increase money received from enemies killed by the skill holder by 10%.
Kill Bonus - Drops (1*10): Increase item drop rate of enemies killed by the skill holder by 16%.
Elementalist - Elemental affinity
Elemental Memory Defense (1*15): Remembers the element of the attack last received. When the skill holder is in the front, reduce damage from the remembered element by 12%. This benefit extends to other frontliners as well.
Elemental Defense Area Up (1*20): Elemental Memory Defense's will activate at half strength even if the skill holder is in the back.
Enchant - Spinel (5*8): 5MP/Single Ally/Void/Auxillary/Grants 100% of effect "enhance FIR+MYS". As long as the character has at least 30% of the effect, their corresponding elemental attacks will receive a damage bonus of 10%.
Enchant - Lazulite (5*8): 5MP/Single Ally/Void/Auxillary/Grants 100% of effect "enhance CLD+SPI". As long as the character has at least 30% of the effect, their corresponding elemental attacks will receive a damage bonus of 10%.
Enchant - Pyrope (5*8): 5MP/Single Ally/Void/Auxillary/Grants 100% of effect "enhance WND+DRK". As long as the character has at least 30% of the effect, their corresponding elemental attacks will receive a damage bonus of 10%.
Enchant - Florite (5*8): 5MP/Single Ally/Void/Auxillary/Grants 100% of effect "enhance NTR+PHY". As long as the character has at least 30% of the effect, their corresponding elemental attacks will receive a damage bonus of 10%.
Ninja - SPD, Evasion, Status resistance
Armor piercing (1*20): Ignore 12.5% of enemy DEF/MND.
Trap of Black Rust (1*10): When skill holder is in the front, the enemy is inflicted with a constant 4% SPD debuff.
Lacquered Stones (1*10): Reduce damage from enemies with status ailments by 8%.
Roughneck's Wisdom (1*10): Increase damage inflicted on enemies with status ailments by 8%.
Assassinate Sword (5*8): 5MP/Single/DRK/Physical/ACC+44/Subclass spell that inflicts DRK damage on a single enemy. Damage multiplier is quite good, and it can also inflict DEF debuff and DTH. Its power is quite low though.
Fast Movement (5*8): 3MP/Self/WND/Auxillary/Subclass spell that increases the user's SPD. The buff itself is low, but the delay is small as well.
Prophet - MP, DEF, MND, SPD, Evasion
False Divine Contraption (1*10): Increase damage inflicted on enemies with buffs by 16%.
Ritual of Soul Release (1*25): When attacked by an enemy with buffs, receives 1/5 of the buffs on that enemy.
Prophecy of the Sheppard (1*10): When the skill holder is in the front, all damage calculations will be done as if the enemies' ATK and DEF buffs are 25% lower.
Revelation of the Heavens (1*10): When the skill holder is in the front, all damage calculations will be done as if the enemies' MAG and MND buffs are 25% lower.
Intuition that Connects the World (1*10): When the skill holder is in the front, enemies' SPD buffs are 25% less effective.
Oracle of the Prophet (5*8): 6MP/All/CLD/Magic/Always hits/Subclass spell that inflicts CLD damage on all enemies. It has a low chance to nullify buffs on enemies. Even if the nullification fails, it may still reduce the strength of the buffs.
(The following classes can only be learned by one character at any time)
Ame-no-Murakumo's Protection - ATK, DEF, MAG, MND
One of the Three Treasures (1*15): When the skill holder receives a turn while their HP is missing (the wording is awfully vague), absorb 5% HP from other frontliners.
Ninigi's Taitou (1*15): When the skill holder receives a turn while their MP is missing, absorb 1 MP from other frontliners.
Power of the One at Top (1*25): When the skill holder receives a turn, absorb 10% of buffs on all other frontliners and enemies.
Three swords of Divine Era (1*20): When the skill holder consumes MP to attack with a spell card, all other frontliners also consume the same amount of MP, and increase damage by 12% for all characters affected this way.
Ame-no-Murakumo's Slash (5*10): 6MP/Single/SPI/Physical/Acc+20/Subclass spell that inflicts SPI damage on one enemy. Even though it's a subclass spell, it's no less power than character-specific cards.
Start of Heavenly Demise (5*10): 13MP/All/SPI/Magic/Subclass spell that inflicts SPI damage on all enemies. It's a very strong attack that hits all enemies, but its MP consumption and delay are both very bad.
World Shaking Military Rule (5*10): 10MP/All Allies/SPI/Auxillary/Subclass spell that increase all stats of all allies slightly.
Dragon God's Power - HP, MP, TP, Elemental Affinity, Ailment Resistance
Four Elements Protection (20*3): Increase affinity of FIR, CLD, WND and NTR.
Fire Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder takes a turn, if the skill holder's ATB is 10001 or more, recover 4% of all frontliners' HP.
Wood Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder takes a turn, if the skill holder's ATB is 10001 or more, grants all allies 4% buff on all stats.
Water Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder takes a turn, if the skill holder's ATB is 10001 or more, all frontliners will have a 20% chance of removing all ailments.
Earth Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder is in the front, reduce damage from enemies for all frontliners by 10%.
Metal Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder takes a turn, if the skill holder's ATB is 10001 or more, recover 1 of all frontliner's MP.
Dragon's Breath (5*15): 12MP/All/FIR+CLD+WND+NTR/Straight Composite/Acc+50/Subclass Spell that inflicts composite damage of four elements to all enemies. As a composite attack, ATK, MAG, DEF and MND are all involved in the damage calculation.
*WINNER* - All stats and resistances
Autoroller (5*10): Increase all stats.
Elemental Immunity (10*10): Increase all elemental affinities.
Magic Armor (10*10): Increase all ailment resistances.
Vorpal Blade (5*15): 7MP/Row/WND/Physical/Acc-15/Subclass Spell that inflicts WND damage to a row of enemies. Both its ATK multiplier and damage multiplier are high.
Magical Tempest (5*15): 12MP/All/Void/Magic/Acc+30/Subclass spell that inflicts non-elemental damage to all enemies.
Sword of Light (5*15): 8MP/Single/SPI/Composite Magic/Acc+128/Subclass spell that inflicts SPI damage to one enemy. A spell that calculates both the ATK and MAG of the user, and the MND of the target. It also ignores 50% of the target's MND.
Wand of *Destruction* (5*15): 16MP/All/DRK/Composite Physical/Acc-20/Subclass spell that uses the user's ATK and MAG, and the targets' DEF. The Damage multiplier is very high, but its power is low, and the MP consumption and delay are both terrifyingly high. It can inflict PSN, PAR, HVY, SHK, TRR, SIL and DTH.
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Dear god this is glorious. Also
lol the Ame-No-Murakamo subclass gives you most of ThLaby1 Mannosuke skills, since Scarlet Gold Sword=that.
This game is turning deliciously complicated to run a top tier party for and I love this.
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I just remembered that my save file wasn't actually a completed post game, since I hadn't fought V2 in that one yet. I remember I had a save file where I DID fight V2 but I think I ended up overwriting it with my draft run. Speaking of which, I still plan on finishing that on 1.203 someday. I don't think I can resist trying out my team against the plus disk content after farming for stat gems for so long.
I'm going to love putting Dragon God's Power on Aya
Edit: Just got my first random encounter on the new content. An enemy who is weak to Spirit didn't die to my over leveled and buffed Kaguya's Hourai Barrage (which is also max level). I'm a little scared that the first floor has randoms that are like the randoms when you encounter 20F Depths for the first time...
Edit2: Nevermind, I can't actually tell how strong the normal enemies are since I was lucky (unlucky?) to have found a rare enemy three out of my six initial battles.
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so...for those who use mokou...
how do you usually build her?
Full HP
Defense and MIND
HP Defense and mind?
Monk? Defender? trascendant?
Future Classes Snip
looks like somebody took my mannosuke class suggestion too seriously..... but now it can be used on ANYONE ,those last three special classes looks like bragging rewards after being the game, they seem broken
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Mokou can be built offensively or defensively; an attacker who refuses to die is pretty nice, after all. But it does look like you want a tank. She has high MP regen and her base skills only provide a weak atk/mag debuff (granted, that's a fairly alright thing for your tank to have) so I'd recommend Healer or Herbalist to use her turns with. Herbalist is -really- nice to have later in the game imo; Placebo Effect and Herb of Awakening are great when maxed. But Healer does have the bonus of giving more HP regen along with some healing power. (It'll be a little harder to get good healing out of it in Plus as the skill gets nerfed... dang Eirin.)
DEF/MND is necessary because Mokou doesn't really have enough sheer HP to try to play Komachi, but equipment-wise you'll want a little more HP/affinity focus than other tanks would normally want once you've got good equipment for doing so with. Mokou's DEF/MND aren't very good unless you've got Keine fielded with her, after all, so you'll want to be putting her regeneration to use and taking advantage of how she won't actually die easily.
As for the other thing, They're pretty strong, but 'balanced' by only being allowed to use them on one character. Still, Dragon God is one hell of a supporter subclass... Byakuren, will you ever have spare SKP again?
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Just got to the "first" boss and I'm already loving it.
Shadow Yuugi went and one shot Byakuren who had maxed buffs and full HP with Knockout in Three Steps at around 50%. My jaw dropped at that point and I went all out to kill Yuugi before her next turn. But then once I killed her the rest of the fight was pretty easy. Going to refight the boss trying not to let anyone die.
I'd much rather have Byakuren be perma Strategist. Plus, her SPD isn't exactly exceptional enough to warrant a turn based support subclass. But yeah Byakuren's never going to have spare skill points.
Ame no Murakumo is pretty much "hey I heard you like power with draw backs so I'm going to give you power with drawbacks on top of your power with drawbacks". It's literally turning any nuker into Flandre and turning Flandre into a freaking murdering machine. That said, its skills kind of conflict with each other.
Start of Heavenly Demise -> MAG nukers
Ame no Murakumo Slash -> ATK nukers
World Shaking Military Rule -> Support / Tank characters
Passive skills -> Bulky stay in attackers.
WINNER is hands down, Rinnosuke's absolute endgame class. Lack spells that use all your insanely high stats Rinnosuke? Here, have 4 seemingly amazing moves that cover multiple attack types, elements and defenses as adding ailment infliction to the mix.
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Just got to the "first" boss and I'm already loving it. Shadow Yuugi went and one shot Byakuren who had maxed buffs and full HP with Knockout in Three Steps at around 50%. My jaw dropped at that point and I went all out to kill Yuugi before her next turn. But then once I killed her the rest of the fight was pretty easy. Going to refight the boss trying not to let anyone die.
I'd much rather have Byakuren be perma Strategist. Plus, her SPD isn't exactly exceptional enough to warrant a turn based support subclass. But yeah Byakuren's never going to have spare skill points.
Ame no Murakumo is pretty much "hey I heard you like power with draw backs so I'm going to give you power with drawbacks on top of your power with drawbacks". It's literally turning any nuker into Flandre and turning Flandre into a freaking murdering machine. That said, its skills kind of conflict with each other.
Start of Heavenly Demise -> MAG nukers
Ame no Murakumo Slash -> ATK nukers
World Shaking Military Rule -> Support / Tank characters
Passive skills -> Bulky stay in attackers.
WINNER is hands down, Rinnosuke's absolute endgame class. Lack spells that use all your insanely high stats Rinnosuke? Here, have 4 seemingly amazing moves that cover multiple attack types, elements and defenses as adding ailment infliction to the mix.
So, from that class, Instead of going MANnosuke, He ascends higher, he goes GODnosuke (or KAMInosuke) whichever sounds cooler
what level was your party? mine is sitting on the 220-+ ish,still havent touched the plus disk demo
sweet
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So, from that class, Instead of going MANnosuke, He ascends higher, he goes GODnosuke (or KAMInosuke) whichever sounds cooler
what level was your party? mine is sitting on the 220-+ ish,still havent touched the plus disk demo
sweet
I'd go with the Kami variant. The other one doesn't roll off the tongue as well, and it doesn't have a "pun". KAMInosuke sounds a lot like Kami no suki which would be God of Love. Seeing as he's one of the few males in the entire universe and the ONLY male in the game, I'd say it fits pretty well.
I figured it would better to just show you my party and their levels rather than just tell you the average level (which was 4 levels lower when I started exploring Plus Disk content). I ran from like 5 battles but I explored the entire floor before reaching the entrance.
Edit: Ah I just realized I should have taken notes on the fight. Good thing I didn't overwrite my save just before the boss fight.
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I'd go with the Kami variant. The other one doesn't roll off the tongue as well, and it doesn't have a "pun". KAMInosuke sounds a lot like Kami no suki which would be God of Love. Seeing as he's one of the few males in the entire universe and the ONLY male in the game, I'd say it fits pretty well.
I figured it would better to just show you my party and their levels rather than just tell you the average level (which was 4 levels lower when I started exploring Plus Disk content). I ran from like 5 battles but I explored the entire floor before reaching the entrance.
wow you almost have double the time played, i need to step up my game and keep farming genji gloves/zeus armor/cyber elf grandies for plus disk content
(http://i.imgur.com/ZLIZHgK.jpg)
party is currently set on farming mode, remilia just using spear and refunding 2 MP per kill, and flandre simply using attack command to wipe enemies at 20F
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Considering there's 6 new pages of equips for plus disk and someone said the "boost only one stat gear" (usually junk by the end of the game, in other words) goes up to +400%, I have a feeling cyber elf grandies and such are going to get... sort of outdated and not worth hours of grind :V If you really wanted to grind you'd probably just go for gems from farming the final boss I guess.
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Achievement requirements.
128 hours played
256 hours played
10k battles won
54 Main Equipment collected
60 Main Equipment collected
200 Sub Equipment collected
220 Sub Equipment collected
230 Sub Equipment collected
240 Sub Equipment collected
10m money obtained
100m money obtained
20k parameter strengthened
100k parameter strengthened
90% bestiary filled
96% bestiary filled
100% bestiary filled
All party members collected
Jet Black Fragment obtained
20 Jet Black Fragment obtained
All Jet Black Fragment obtained
Extra Skill unlocking item obtained
20 kinds of Extra Skill unlocking items obtained
All kinds of Extra Skill unlocking itmes obtained
Lv500 reached
Lv1000 reached
96 Materials collected
100 Materials collected
Someone having maxed all the tier 1 boost skill
Someone having maxed all the tier 2 boost skill
Someone having maxed all the tier 3 boost skill
Someone having 80 stat boosting items used
Someone having 160 stat boosting items used
20 Infinity Gems traded
100 Infinity Gems traded
Endless Corridor 100F completed
Endless Corridor 256F completed
Endless Corridor 512F completed
Highest above-ground floor reached
Lowest below-ground floor reached
Someone having status level total of 3000
Obtained 3000 drops from enemies
500 chests opened
255 equipments forged
Someone's BP having reached 20k
Defeated Yamata no Orochi
Defeated Manifestation: Yamata no Orochi
Defeated Dragon God
Defeated ***WINNER***
Defeated at least 1 boss on 29F
Defeated all bosses on 29F
Defeated lingering boss on 30F
Defeated True Dragon God
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Achievement List
I may not be a disgaea player, but some of these challenges look insane,tedious or nuts, unless thats a requirement for disgaea players in bonus content
so serpent of chaos is back with another name uh
endless corridor is basically a infinite dungeon like the disgaea item world? , if the floors arent small, reaching that amount for the challenge will take ALOT of time
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Achievement requirements.
128 hours played
256 hours played
10k battles won
54 Main Equipment collected
60 Main Equipment collected
200 Sub Equipment collected
220 Sub Equipment collected
230 Sub Equipment collected
240 Sub Equipment collected
10m money obtained
100m money obtained
20k parameter strengthened
100k parameter strengthened
90% bestiary filled
96% bestiary filled
100% bestiary filled
All party members collected
Jet Black Fragment obtained
20 Jet Black Fragment obtained
All Jet Black Fragment obtained
Extra Skill unlocking item obtained
20 kinds of Extra Skill unlocking items obtained
All kinds of Extra Skill unlocking itmes obtained
Lv500 reached
Lv1000 reached
96 Materials collected
100 Materials collected
Someone having maxed all the tier 1 boost skill
Someone having maxed all the tier 2 boost skill
Someone having maxed all the tier 3 boost skill
Someone having 80 stat boosting items used
Someone having 160 stat boosting items used
20 Infinity Gems traded
100 Infinity Gems traded
Endless Corridor 100F completed
Endless Corridor 256F completed
Endless Corridor 512F completed
Highest above-ground floor reached
Lowest below-ground floor reached
Someone having status level total of 3000
Obtained 3000 drops from enemies
500 chests opened
255 equipments forged
Someone's BP having reached 20k
Defeated Yamata no Orochi
Defeated Manifestation: Yamata no Orochi
Defeated Dragon God
Defeated ***WINNER***
Defeated at least 1 boss on 29F
Defeated all bosses on 29F
Defeated lingering boss on 30F
Defeated True Dragon God
?
Wow, that's quite the numbers on those achievements .___.
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Is it really necessary to quote the whole list multiple times >.> It's kind of big
Anyway, it's hard to say how inflated those achievements are without knowing what kind of EXP the expansion gives out and such. It does add like, 20 new floors, which is the size of the current game... so for all we know, getting near the end of the content at all naturally gets you to a lot of those things. The endless corridor for all we know is literally a straight line corridor and might not be very long, so it's hard to tell how long it'll take to clear each floor.
HOWEVER, based on thlaby1 content, it -is- possible the top/bottom floors or endless corridor can be like your grinder's endless postgame fantasy where you raise numbers for 30 hours and all the biggest achievements are like, well, that.
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Achievement requirements.
Endless Corridor 512F completed
Please tell me the endless floors are randomly generated.
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Please tell me the endless floors are randomly generated.
The Endless Corridor has been implied to be randomly generated many times by now. It was one of the first new features announced for the plus disk way back before the trial was even released. :V
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Conclusion of second playthrough; the Formidable Shadows of the mirror and magatama are utterly stupid fights regardless of your party. :I I still can't see how the magatama is even beatable at challenge level without cheesing it via removing party members to lower your Party Average Level. The Plus Trial will make it easier with Flan's Starbow Break ignoring some defense, making her far and away the best damage dealer, but still... what are you going to do, frontline Parsee Yukari Flan Satori once you get it to two-thirds HP to try to speedkill it? (Satori would use Spiriting Away after the last go once Yukari casts it, and then someone would swap for SPD-Aya. And you'd pray the Magatama didn't target Flan before it died. Flan would need an overly large ATK investment at the library.)
The plus trial neutralizes Gambler anyway so you'll lose a lot of the burst damage from Kaguya/Shikieiki. Because it's defenses are stupidly high for a boss that has heavy regen so you need them. Even Nitori can hit for 0 with high buffs up and it's def debuffed if they aren't maintained at maximum, and people with piercing attacks in offense builds can too.
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the way I beat the Magatama was to put the Genji Glove and tons of magic skill points on Rumia, and then spam Dark Side of the Moon over and over. It worked but took me a bunch of tries :V
Now, the mirror on the other hand...
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It might not help that my plan was to beat them all before exploring the extra areas :V Rumia would be pretty nice for that fight since she hits the weakness along with ignoring DEF, and... actually having a cheap and spammable attack unlike Kaguya and Shiki who need to get switched. (also because Kaguya's ability to DIE and rarely having mp; granted she's a gambler so that was soooorta my fault)
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For a second I thought Formidable Shadows were new versions of the bosses in the Plus Disk, not the Version 2's (doesn't help that the last time I did postgame was my Team 9 run on the old English patch, something I'm redoing because I totally feel like Team 9 can take on the Plus Disk, totally, I just have to redo it due to losing save files. :V).
I do remember those two bosses being insanely difficult to beat, granted with Team 9 I had Rumia so I could just blast them apart with Dark Side of the Moon but even that doesn't account for how annoying tough it is to deal damage to either of those bosses. Hell, having just gotten to 14F meaning I had to fight their original versions, I still find it incredibly silly that all three versions of those bosses practically demand defense-piercing attacks (AKA bring out the Monks), else you're screwed.
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Eh, the first two versions are fine so long as you have debuffs. (Hi Hina <3) Although the 12F Magatama is still a really hard fight. But the enhanced ones, yeah, even with 50% ignore attacks you'll be hitting zeroes disturbingly easily. The heavy regen on the magatama seals it as utterly ridiculous; but as if that wasn't enough, it's speeding up with each turn, so if you can't nuke it down very quickly it'll regenerate too fast to outdamage.
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The Magatama and Mirror Shadows were absolutely horrifying as Calamity Four and I had absolutely no way of beating either without severe overlevelling.
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I think the developers try to add an "innovative/outside-of-the-box challenge" by giving you "fight the bosses with less than 12 party members or you won't get any extra gem/manual."
That's why they raise the Shadow's bosses' stats to an absolutely-nuts level. They force you to do all of these chores; grind at 20F until you reach Level 200, increase your Voile Level to 200 (which means more grinding for money), find stronger items at the extra areas THEN kick your party members out until you reach the challenge level before fighting the bosses.
Yeah, those are the only reasonable things I can think of why they make the Shadow bosses insanely difficult.
EDIT: Yeah, they also expect us to not only overlevel but also use defensive-ignoring characters or Flandre/Hina. For instance, Reisen and Iku make the Magamata's Shadow an absolute cakewalk. Reisen with People of the Moon skill + Discarder debuff/damage the Magatama while also strengthening Iku's normal attack + double-debuff skill. With maxed buffs and debuffs, they can deal 150k each. (Both are at Level 200.)
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i downloaded the english patch, and for some reason the text will cut off on the right side of the screen. ??? (this has probably been answered before, but I can't find it.)
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i downloaded the english patch, and for some reason the text will cut off on the right side of the screen. ??? (this has probably been answered before, but I can't find it.)
I'm not entirely sure, but you might have to use Japanese locale or something like Applocale for the font to display properly.
Or maybe it's a thing with later Windows versions. I'm only just now experiencing this myself.
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i downloaded the english patch, and for some reason the text will cut off on the right side of the screen. ??? (this has probably been answered before, but I can't find it.)
99% sure this is due to not being on Japanese locale. The patch was made taking Japanese locale fonts (Meiryo) into account, not the font used in its place when not in Japanese locale, so there ends up being a lot of cutoff text.
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99% sure this is due to not being on Japanese locale. The patch was made taking Japanese locale fonts (Meiryo) into account, not the font used in its place when not in Japanese locale, so there ends up being a lot of cutoff text.
but is there a way to fix it?
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but is there a way to fix it?
Set your computer to Japanese locale.
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I think the developers try to add an "innovative/outside-of-the-box challenge" by giving you "fight the bosses with less than 12 party members or you won't get any extra gem/manual."
That's why they raise the Shadow's bosses' stats to an absolutely-nuts level. They force you to do all of these chores; grind at 20F until you reach Level 200, increase your Voile Level to 200 (which means more grinding for money)
With maxed buffs and debuffs, they can deal 150k each. (Both are at Level 200.)
Well, this is a little over-the-top XD The mirror and the magatama are the only really problematically difficult Shadow bosses with a good party; the golden orbs took me a few tries since you have a balance your damage or they one-shot your party or revive at full hp, but the others I beat with a full party at challenge level first try. (My first playthrough, my party didn't have Hina or as good of an attacker selection for postgame, so I struggled a lot. Second play I was prepared >.>) Past that, saying they "make the boss a cakewalk" when you're literally at a higher level than necessary for the final boss v2 and everyone was probably taking 0s a long time ago is a little silly... a lot of characters can do it at that point. And the mirror is a trivial fight if you dump a couple characters to have a level 150~160 party, since it'll do no damage and doesn't regen and doesn't have as scary defenses or wear it's debuffs off as fast as the magatama.
The magatama is pretty dumb though. You do sort of -have- to have certain offense characters out if you don't want to massively overlevel; Rumia, and Kaguya/Shiki probably in gambler builds, Meiling can sorta get through and Nitori does a lot if the buffs/debuffs are high, Iku probably is a nice idea... and since it regens so much you really do have to have -all- of them.
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Set your computer to Japanese locale.
I have tried this and it didn't work, but it isn't that big of a problem.
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Currently working on subequips. Obviously it's going to take a while looking up 120 sets of references, so I'm going to write some highlights of their stats first:
-A set of single-stat items that have a bonus of 160%/240%/320%/400%
-A set of items that raise one stat by 100% and two status resistances by 50.
-A set of items that raise one stat by 144% and four status resistances by 50.
-A single item (Earth Armor) that raises DEF by 172% and all status resistances by 50.
-A set of items that raise one stat by 100% and two elemental affinities by 172.
-A set of items that raise one stat by 128% and three elemental affinities by 144.
-A pair of items that raise one stat by 144% and four elemental affinities by 128.
There are no more patterns after these; bonuses are pretty much arbitrary. I'll write some highlights though:
-Magic Sword "Chaos" gives ATK+1680% (but only evade+32 besides that)
-Machine God Lucifer has All stats+666%. It also has MYS SPI DRK PHY+66.
-There's an item description that has the phrase "Big Fucking Gun" in it in English.
-The last two items give All stats+999% and All Stats+500%, All elements+100 and All stats+50 respectively, and are named True Ame-no-Murakumo and Source of Dragon God's Power, implying that they're dropped by the two endgame bosses. The latter's boost to stats actually seem rather mediocre compared to all the 800-1000+% numbers I had seen above.
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-Magic Sword "Chaos" gives ATK+1680% (but only evade+32 besides that)
Demonic Sword Chaos. It's Rance's weapon.
Is the Big Fucking Gun the BFG9000 from Doom?
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I know that it's Rance's sword, but labyrinth 1 had it as "Magic Sword". Once the translation officially starts we can debate about whether to keep it as Magic Sword for continuity or Demonic Sword for correctness.
And yes, it does look like it's the BFG9000 from Doom.
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OK I'm done
Silver Cat Statue
HP+160%
Stamina Seed
HP+240%
Health Tablet
HP+320%
Ambrosia
HP+400%
Sword of Nex
ATK+160%
Super Sledge
ATK+240%
Burst Laser II
ATK+320%
Holy Sword Virdalik
ATK+400%
Buzz Buzz's Shell
DEF+160%
[コンゴウラカン - it's an item from Tales of Destiny 2 (the one on PS2, not Eternia); a Harold-specific handgear that's dropped by something called Cheap Trick at a low rate. I don't know the English translated name of it though]
DEF+240%
Outlaw's Bandana
DEF+320%
Barrier Glove
DEF+400%
Nanna
MAG+160%
White Soul Music Sheet
MAG+240%
Rhapsody in Rose
MAG+320%
Ether Doubler
MAG+400%
Kigny Shield
MND+160%
Princess's ???
MND+240%
Shell Fossli
MND+320%
Schwarzschild's barrier
MND+400%
Wings of Sky Resident
SPD+160%
Infringer
SPD+240%
Kicker Skeleton's Soul
SPD+320%
Quick Boost
SPD+400%
Suimin DX
MND+100% PSN PAR +50
Blue Dragon Wok
ATK+100% PSN DBF+50
Toki's Scool Cap(?) [ときのがくぼう]
HP+100% PAR SHK+50
Nerve Shells
SPD+100% HVY SIL+50
Sky Armor
DEF+100% HVY DTH+50
Hyakutarou's Book of Chi
ATK+100% SHK TRR+50
Amulet of Sacred Knights
MAG+100% TRR DBF+50
Nunchucks of Sokuromoto
SPD+100% SIL DTH+50
Portable Makoto Ito
HP+144% PSN PAR HVY SHK+50
Secret Art of "Meld"(?) [メルドの奥義書]
ATK+144% TRR SIL DTH DBF+50
Earth Armor
DEF+172% All Status+50
Ignigarde
DEF+100% FIR CLD+172
Gaia Beam
MAG+100% WND NTR+172
Dhylec
MND+100% MYS SPI+172
Magnus Club
ATK+100% DRK PHY+172
Burned Man's Headwrap
HP+128% FIR WND MYS+144
Anima Crystal
MAG+128% CLD NTR PHY+144
Windspun Armor
DEF+128% WND SPI DRK
Hirami Lemon
MND+128% NTR DRK PHY+144
Romancing Stone
MAG+144% FIR CLD WND NTR+128
Bicke Backe's Mushroom Set
MND+144% MYS SPI DRK PHY+128%
Seven Star Sword
All Stats+128% All elements+128
Destroy Decomposer
ATK+156% MAG MND SPD+64% SHK TRR+24
Fusion Sword
HP+64% ATK+100% SPD+188% WND PHY+48
Hocus Pocus Scroll
MAG+188% MND+124% EVA+24 DBF+60
Henshin-kun
All Stats+80%
Lancer - COG Assault Rifle
HP+199% ATK DEF+124% TRR DTH+48
Zero Shift Program
HP ATK MAG+72% SPD MND+164% EVA+36
Copy Ability "Smash"
HP ATK+144% DEF MND SPD+72% SHK+64
Swiftrock Hammer
ATK+256% DEF+120% SHK DTH+32
Ryuujin Sword
MAG+244% ATK MND+64% FIR CLD WND NTR MYS SPI DRK+32
Noon Queen
DEF MND+144% SPI+100 PSN DBF+40
Fire Bomb
HP MAG+176% MP+1 TP+3 EVA+32 DRK+88
D-Ratio 1/4
HP+256% ATK DEF MAG MND+64%
Robe of Lords
MP+2 MAG+288% SPD+100% WND+128 HVY+60
Noblesse Oblige Cellphone
HP+160% TP+2 SPD+144% EVA+20 All Elements+36 All Status+16
Rhododendron Dress
MAG+222% HP ATK SPD+112% WND NTR DRK+64 HP Recovery+1%
Ancient Dark
ATK SPD+199% DEF MAG+66% DRK+72 TRR DTH+40 DBF+20
Demonica
DEF+144% HP ATK MAG MND SPD+100%
Hub.BAT
MP+2 TP+2 SPD+210% DEF MND+144% EVA+24 FIR CLD WND NTR+50
Deity Emperor's White Uniform
MAG MND+200% HP DEF+150% MAG SPI DRK+50 SIL DBF+25
Hrathnir
ATK DEF+232% MND SPD+144% WND PHY+64
Rasklapanje's Parasite
HP+322% HP Recovery+2% ATK DEF MAG MND+56% TRR DTH+24
TNT Paranoia
ATK+300% HP SPD+132% FIR+50
Excaliborg
HP ATK MAG+216% SPI PHY+64
Fatima
MAG+188% MND SPD+277% EVA+24 FIR CLD WND+40
Philosopher's Stone
HP+164% MP+2 MAG MND+278% MYS+64 DBF+32
National Defense Divinities
ATK DEF MAG MND+188% CLD WND DRK+56
Urunseru Blade
MP+1 TP+2 ATK+278% MAG SPD+188% PHY+50
King Authur
All Stats+156% All Elements+36
Assault Weapon - Locust
ATK SPD+312% EVA+20 HVY SHK TRR+32
Black Sandra's Armor
HP+128% DEF+300% MND+156% MYS DARK PHY+72 DTH+36
Zenith Dragon's Heart
HP DEF MAG MND+199% FIR WND SPI+50 All status+20
Rubiss Sword
MP+2 MAG+250% HP ATK MND+200% FIR CLD SPI+40 WND+100
Bathus's Claymore(?) [バーザスの大剣] (All I know is that バーザス is one of the final bosses in a hachikuma RPG, 退魔塔神ToK. I have no idea who he is.)
ATK+399% DEF+199% PHY+88 PSN PAR TRR+32
Solar Gun - Infinite Battery
HP+444% MP+2 TP+2 ATK DEF MAG MND SPD+99% SPI DRK+99
Falcon Sword of Destruction
ATK SPD+375% SPD+50
Paladin Shield
DEF+450% MND+225% EVA+12 FIR CLD SPI DRK PHY+70 DBF+50
[クロウアンドレア] (It's a claw from Torneko no Daibouken 3, which is untranslated AFAIK, and I have no idea what "kurouandorea" is. Crow Andrea? Crow and Rea?)
TP+4 ATK+177% MAG SPD+277% TRR SIL+64
Fairy "Navi"
MP+2 HP DEF SPD+166% MND+422% EVA+24 SPI+100 SIL+72
Fanelia
MAG+524% HP MND+128% DRK+100
Muramasa Blade!
ATK+599% MYS DRK PHY+56
Tera Bomb
MAG+344% ATK SPD+222% FIR+128 SHK+40
WH04HL-KRSW
All Stats+240%
Longsword "Crimson Lotus Princess"
HP ATK+412% MAG SPD+199% FIR+144 DRK+72 PAR TRR DTH+40
Blue Crystal Rod
MP+2 MAG+400% HP DEF MND+200% CLD+100 PAR HYV+25
Prism Specs
ATK MAG+428%
Type-99 Guard Enhanced Armor (This is from Muv-luv Alternative and says something about equipment being used in 1999 by the royal guards, but I can't find the proper name of it)
TP+3 HP DEF MND+300% SHK TRR SIL+30
Gran Grimoire
MP+4 MAG+600% MND+360% All Status+48
Necronomicon
TP+6 HP+360% MAG MND+480% All Status+24
Magic Sword "Chaos"
ATK+1680% EVA+32
Gemini Lotus
MP TP+8 MAG MND SPD+720%
Demi-fiend's Reason
HP+880% ATK MAG DEF+560% DARK+240 DBF+100
Allagan Battleaxe
HP+640% ATK+480% DEF+880% MND+400% ACC+39 SHK DTH TRR+80
Flower Blade Kikuryusei
HP ATK DEF MAG+368% SPD+256% PHY+50 DTH+50
Ame-no-Habakiri
All Stats+400%
Winner's Rag
HP ATK+720% DEF SPD+540% ACC EVA+16 PSN PAR HVY SHK+32
Regalia
HP+600% All Elements+172
Slayer Robe
ATK SPD+377% ACC EVA+20 DRK PHY+80 TRR+64
Codex of Ultimate Wisdom
DEF+400% MAG+240% MND+560% WND MYS SPI+88
Power Dragon Scale Mail
HP ATK MND+330% DEF+660% FIR CLD WND NTR+100 MYS SPI DRK PHY+40
Machine God Lucifer
All Stats+666% MAG SPI MYS PHY+66
Scourge
ATK+880% DEF+440% PHY+100
Medicine of Life
HP+1280% PSN PAR SIL DTH+128
Platinum Yendorian Express Card
MP TP+4 HP ATK DEF MAG SPD+299% MND+600% EVA+20
BFG9000
ATK MAG SPD+480% FIR+120
Longsword "Ringil"
MP+4 ATK+360% MND SPD+560% ACC+32 CLD MYS+100
Tupsimati
MP+6 HP DEF MND+300% MAG+800% MYS SPI DRK+99
Massive Iron Crown of Chaos
HP DEF+999% ACC+99 DRK+300
Jewel of Judgement
MP+8 HP+999% MAG+800% TRR SIL DTH DBF+50
Mighty Hammer "Grond"
TP+8 HP+999% ATK+800% PSN PAR HVY SHK+50
"The One Ring"
HP MND+999% EVA+32 CLD WND NTR+144
Book of Babbles
DEF MND+640% All Elements+100 All Status+32
Excalibur II
ATK+780% HP DEF+500% EVA+24 All Elements+64
True Divine Sword "Ame-no-Murakumo"
All Stats+999%
Source of Dragon God's Power
All Stats+500% All Elements+100 All Status+50
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Allagan Battleaxe
HP+640% ATK+480% DEF+880% MND+400% ACC+39 SHK DTH TRR+80
I see that FFXIV reference, I figured there would be at least one. :V
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I swear if they don't nerf maintenance :V
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I know that it's Rance's sword, but labyrinth 1 had it as "Magic Sword". Once the translation officially starts we can debate about whether to keep it as Magic Sword for continuity or Demonic Sword for correctness.
And yes, it does look like it's the BFG9000 from Doom.
I posted an updated patch that fixed the name a while back. There's no reason to keep the incorrect name.
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I posted an updated patch that fixed the name a while back. There's no reason to keep the incorrect name.
Since you're still here let me confirm one more thing as well. Alicesoft Wiki lists Range Quest's ウルンセルの刃 as Urunseru Blade, but is that the name in the translated game (if one exists)?
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I'm already theorycrafting with the new character stuff >.> For example,
if Enhancer's "heal characters you apply buffs to" works on Maribel's buff sharing passive from Endless Corridor, you could stack it with another enhancer to make someone's buffs heal the front line for 32%. Most notably when leaving Maribel in the back and buffing with Ran... you'd heal the front for 32% with each Ran-buff.
Or, you could use Satori's "deal half your current HP as damage to all enemies with each turn" with Reisen's Grand Patriot Elixir for it's 98% delay, in a max HP build. You'd blow through mp like no tomorrow, but she regains 25% when switched out, which is a pretty dang large amount in postgame, esp. with stuff like MP gems. Having Reisen in isn't a huge deal when the delay is so low and Satori having a million HP to take a hit with.
Also Utsuho in postgame and with the Proof of Kin bonus, she could actually be pretty tanky, and now her overheats are free so the longer you can keep her out... the higher her damage soars. MP is a thing, but subclass junk can help with that.
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[コンゴウラカン - it's an item from Tales of Destiny 2 (the one on PS2, not Eternia); a Harold-specific handgear that's dropped by something called Cheap Trick at a low rate. I don't know the English translated name of it though]
DEF+240%
Did some searching for that one.
Kongourakan, which is a Dagger in Tales of Destiny. Considering the Defensive properties of the item, it might be from Seiken Densetsu 3, where the translated name is Adamantine Arhat, or as the fan translation uses it, Kongo Rakan.
http://kumiho.aerdan.org/translations/sd3.html Link I found it at.
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Did some searching for that one.
Kongourakan, which is a Dagger in Tales of Destiny. Considering the Defensive properties of the item, it might be from Seiken Densetsu 3, where the translated name is Adamantine Arhat, or as the fan translation uses it, Kongo Rakan.
http://kumiho.aerdan.org/translations/sd3.html Link I found it at.
It's definitely from Tales of Destiny 2 though, since it mentions Harold and there isn't a Harold in Seiken Densetsu 3.
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Or, you could use Satori's "deal half your current HP as damage to all enemies with each turn" with Reisen's Grand Patriot Elixir for it's 98% delay, in a max HP build. You'd blow through mp like no tomorrow, but she regains 25% when switched out, which is a pretty dang large amount in postgame, esp. with stuff like MP gems. Having Reisen in isn't a huge deal when the delay is so low and Satori having a million HP to take a hit with.
I just tried to see how much HP my Satori would have if I gave her all the HP equips, all HP level up bonuses, Library Levels, and Life Gems. She has as much HP as Komachi which is pretty underwhelming when I look at the equips Komachi is using. I highly doubt Komachi will have ~1million HP by the time we unlock these Endless Corridor suitable skills, even with the stronger HP equips that the Plus Disk has and like 500 more levels. Maybe I'm just underestimating how much 500 levels and level up bonuses will do for her HP count though ...
Maintenance needs a nerf and badly so especially with these new equips. That said, I'm sad I didn't see any gimmicky equips like Zeus Armor and Genji Gloves. Maybe the gimmcky stuff is in the Main equips.
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It's definitely from Tales of Destiny 2 though, since it mentions Harold and there isn't a Harold in Seiken Densetsu 3.
Guess it's a dagger then.
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I swear if they don't nerf maintenance :V
Yep, with those crazy items, even crazier than Labyrinth of Touhou 1. If maintenance doesn't get nerfed, anyone with it or a similar skill is automatically in god tier.
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Since you're still here let me confirm one more thing as well. Alicesoft Wiki lists Range Quest's ウルンセルの刃 as Urunseru Blade, but is that the name in the translated game (if one exists)?
Currently "Urunsel's Blade", "but this could change later."
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Yep, with those crazy items, even crazier than Labyrinth of Touhou 1. If maintenance doesn't get nerfed, anyone with it or a similar skill is automatically in god tier.
My thoughts on how it could get nerfed:
Maintenance(Main)
Max Level: 1
Skill cost: 15
Doubles the effect of your main equip.
Maintenance(Sub-equip)
Max Level: 3
Skill cost: 15
Doubles the effect of SLv out of 3 sub-equipment slots, starting from the top slot.
Expensive as all hell(4 times the normal cost), but given what it can actually do otherwise, it's worth the price in postgame, where you would need such power the most and can actually afford it.
Still, I'm thinking that this may be the wrong way to nerf such a skill...
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That's hardly a nerf, honestly. It's not even overpowered until later in the game, and it'll be just as OP then. Really, what it needs is to be more like a 1.5x equipment power instead of 2x.
I just tried to see how much HP my Satori would have if I gave her all the HP equips
I looked at it too using my lv190~ save, and it came out with her at about 70k hp... at a time where 35k damage is like, not a trivial amount, but not a great amount either? However, when you consider how many Patriot Elixirs you can cast in very little time, I think it might work well as a gimmick build. It's hard to say how player character HP will scale with dealt damage in late postgame, though.
With Utsuho's newfound potential, Orin's -awesome- endless corridor skills, and Koishi being added, the depressing Earth Palace Family synergy might be making a comeback. Although it's awfully hard to decide on 12 people now...
Second/Third stat boosts and the family synergy overtop Fighting Spirit will do wonders for Utsuho's durability, along with the trial buffing two of her move's damage formulas. She'll finally manage to climb past being underwhelming!
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She'll finally manage to climb past being underwhelming!
She might actually be "good". Her offense is more or less there with these boosts.
Expensive as all hell(4 times the normal cost), but given what it can actually do otherwise, it's worth the price in postgame, where you would need such power the most and can actually afford it.
I wouldn't call that expensive when we are talking about post game. Yeah, it is pricy for normal game, but for post game, that cost is not much.
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That's hardly a nerf, honestly. It's not even overpowered until later in the game, and it'll be just as OP then. Really, what it needs is to be more like a 1.5x equipment power instead of 2x.
Hm, you do indeed have a point there. How about this?
Maintenance
Max Level: 2
Skill Cost: 15
The effect of all equipment on the user is boosted by (SLv * 30)%
Would that work better, or is that too much?
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By the way, Utsuho's changes;
-Giga Flare MP cost raised from 8 to 10
-Damage formula went from 154% MAG to roughly 256% MAG (Holy crap, nice! Stronger than Last Judgment (plus she has more MAG and fighting spirit and alltarget) and on par with most non-def-ignoring good attacks! Very solid skill now, albeit MYS is still an awful element; thankfully she's got FIR for non-sky-high-mnd enemies too.)
-Delay changed from 24% to 18% (who cares)
Hell's Tokamak damage formula from 180% MAG to 210~220% MAG but it has slightly more MND influence too. tl;dr end damage should be up about 20%. If you want to leave her in for Fighting Spirit or overheating it's hard to actually use Giga Flare, so her other skills (or subclass ones) are still the go-to for bosses that don't have sky high defenses, especially if you start boosting her base durability lategame. It's nice to see Giga Flare get vastly better, though, because piercing attacks are important in this game.
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By the way, Utsuho's changes;
-Giga Flare MP cost raised from 8 to 10
-Damage formula went from 154% MAG to roughly 256% MAG (Holy crap, nice! Stronger than Last Judgment (plus she has more MAG and fighting spirit and alltarget) and on par with most non-def-ignoring good attacks! Very solid skill now, albeit MYS is still an awful element; thankfully she's got FIR for non-sky-high-mnd enemies too.)
-Delay changed from 24% to 18% (who cares)
Hell's Tokamak damage formula from 180% MAG to 210~220% MAG but it has slightly more MND influence too. tl;dr end damage should be up about 20%. If you want to leave her in for Fighting Spirit or overheating it's hard to actually use Giga Flare, so her other skills (or subclass ones) are still the go-to for bosses that don't have sky high defenses, especially if you start boosting her base durability lategame. It's nice to see Giga Flare get vastly better, though, because piercing attacks are important in this game.
Mystic may be an awful element to use, but that's kind of why she's got Sheer Force, which lets her ignore at least some of the resistance. Of course, I get the feeling that you did in fact take that into account when you said that it's horrible as an attack element, but still...
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sheer force DOES help, but let's face it, it's still probably gonna have enough damage cut off to be sorta meh; or, well, actually...
... well, it's so much stronger now (Nearly doubled power!) that it can actually be usable in a lot more case and compete better against other characters, so, Sheer Force can probably actually matter now. Before, uh... if the enemy resisted MYS it'd still do so little damage it'd hardly be worth the effort. And on Marisa, the other MYS sheer forcer, it's really annoying because it's her ONLY element; it discourages you from wanting to use her in the first place.
So yeah, that probably does help Giga Flare a good chunk.
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sheer force DOES help, but let's face it, it's still probably gonna have enough damage cut off to be sorta meh; or, well, actually...
... well, it's so much stronger now (Nearly doubled power!) that it can actually be usable in a lot more case and compete better against other characters, so, Sheer Force can probably actually matter now. Before, uh... if the enemy resisted MYS it'd still do so little damage it'd hardly be worth the effort. And on Marisa, the other MYS sheer forcer, it's really annoying because it's her ONLY element; it discourages you from wanting to use her in the first place.
So yeah, that probably does help Giga Flare a good chunk.
Well, in Marisa's case, she has both a skill that boosts MYS damage(Magic Training) and Master Spark's formula(read: more MP means more power) to help her out, plus she has the speed to pull a hit and run strategy. And if you need elemental variety for her, there's Toxicologist to fill in that gap rather nicely, since Sheer Force helps in inflicting status ailments, making that subclass a viable choice for her.
Also, I just remembered that Utsuho's Hell's Tokamak has a powerful Mind debuff(read: 18% Mind debuff with 110% chance, and that's at level zero), and combined with Sheer Force, she can easily end up shredding the enemy's Mind while dealing good Fire damage thanks to her Blazing skill(only Reisen can do better at debuffing Mind while still dealing damage to everything, and her spell of choice for this(Lunatic Red Eyes) is Mystic element, which is already stated to be a terrible element to use for attacking).
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Hi, I'm kinda new here I guess. When is Futo gangs coming out? I see someone has the portrait of new characters and all :D Really want to get my hands on Koishi.
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Patience, friend. The new content is going to be a while, since there's an endless corridor for the labyrinth being added as well, among other things.
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Now we just need to hope that the full Plus Disc won't take as long to come out as the trial did.
Also it's great to hear that Giga Flare got buffed. It still might end up being underpowered because lolMYS, but Utsuho needed it pretty badly.
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Well, MYS is bad but it's not -awful- since she still has other good attacks; almost nothing is weak to it and there's lots of resistance, but there's also plenty of chances for it to be good. Now that it actually has high damage, it should be valuable just like Kaguya and Shikieiki are valuable.
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Whoa, I didn't touched LoT2 for so long now. I never touched the postgame content, and just recently play it again to get the FOE achievement.
Seems this update is even bigger than LoT1 in terms of equipment and content. Looking forward to it. What about the translation though?
I predict this will be released at Reitaisai, which is coming near.
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Nice to hear that Okuu is getting more damage. I feel she's so weak for someone who was confident enough to consider taking over gensokyo with her "firepower" alone. Now that with the buff she might actually has that said firepower.
With that said is there anymore of the incoming balance changes for the characters?
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Well, MYS is bad but it's not -awful- since she still has other good attacks; almost nothing is weak to it and there's lots of resistance, but there's also plenty of chances for it to be good. Now that it actually has high damage, it should be valuable just like Kaguya and Shikieiki are valuable.
And given that her synergy skill requires the presence of the game's copycat mage(Satori), that means that Giga Flare could be used twice on enemies. Granted, Satori lacks Sheer Force, meaning that it will be resisted more, but really, copying a Mind piercing Magic attack as Satori is one of the best uses for her Spell Card Recollection skill, provided that she's in a Magic build(read: the same build that also lets her melt faces with Komachi's Narrow Confines of Avici)...
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(read: the same build that also lets her melt faces with Komachi's Narrow Confines of Avici)...
Well, yeah, if you're using Komachi (or Suika, Gathering and Dissipating is about the same); the thing about Satori is it's highly dependent who you're using, and considering there's going to be 56 characters and you can only use about a fifth of them (and they're practically -all- really good, esp. after endless corridors bring some of the worse ones more up-to-speed) it can be hard to tell who's gonna be around. And, once you're in postgame and using lv5 skills instead of mostly lv1, Satori does start getting less useful with her lv0s; especially once Gambler is nerfed out so she isn't naturally getting a massive damage boost up on the natural skill users.
I guess on the upside she'll be able to take a hit after that. It's pretty bad for her that she's still only "pretty alright" for characters with massive formula skills though; most characters that can pierce mnd are even only doing it with passives, at this point. Her innate 25% lower damage formula and bad defenses/affinities really hold her back.
I say this with having been -using- Satori for an entire playthrough on my second go-around, if she didn't have Gambler's +90% for a damage advantage she would have done way less than even people like Meiling who don't have awesome base stats, and with her fragility it can be slightly tricky to get her in to copy people later; even outside of Gambler she's liable for getting one-shot in my experience. She's great with Avici and Dissipating but... once Gambler is nerfed you can just get more damage out of bringing in another dedicated attacker, and they'll probably be able to actually take a hit.
This is part of why I'm interested in goofy builds made for her Endless Corridor passive because it's hard to imagine her not being a highly meh character without it! With how much competition there is for party slots I'd probably leave her out even if I was fielding the whole Earth Spirits party; however, if you use all of them and are in postgame, it's possible to fix up Satori's base stats enough to make her non-glassy (not bulky, but able to solidly take some hits with her high hp) so I suppose it can work... if you're using Komachi tank or something.
But yeah, ATK-Satori can use stuff like Mountain Breaker (Potentially outdamages Avici/Gathering due to close formula and half DEF piercing, and on a great bulky attacker, so it's easy to copy) and Super Scope (over half as strong over again as avici because what is balance) and Last Judgment, and Byakuren has good backup moves as the nearly-always-out tank in many parties.
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Get 3 chaos swords
Put them on flandre and one shot everything
???
Profit?
nice to hear finally utsuho got some buffs
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Suwako's endless corridor skill should really help her damage out vs. Flan in the glass ultracannon category, although Flan gets some defense piercing now too... >.> Yuugi was also buffed, and she has -so many- damage boost passives to start with, I think she can actually stand up to Flan's damage; and she can even take a hit.
Flan still beats everyone out if you're using some SDM members though. Plus her defense piercing along with being one of the heaviest nukers will still make her pretty valuable compared to other major nukes, along with Lavaeteinn.
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I am the only one that feels that the last item and the penultimate item should have its bonuses swapped? :V makes more sense for the last item to be the most powerfull
EDIT
Or maybe those extra bonuses compensate for just having half the stat bonus of the penultimate item?, i mean, with that you no longer needed a ribbon item......
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I am the only one that feels that the last item and the penultimate item should have its bonuses swapped? :V makes more sense for the last item to be the most powerfull
iirc, the first of the 30F boss' item drop was better than the final superboss' drop in LoT1
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Guys, I updated the Character Building page on the Wiki... slightly. Mainly, I added stuff about how to build Momiji, and I would like to ask what you guys think of what I put down so far.
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I wouldn't list completely unworthy builds; why in the world is Marisa going to bother to be a MND tank with Guardian? It's not like she'd have anything to do or be that much better than the usual tanks. More or less, mind tank Marisa -is- for the "status inflicter" set. Okay, okay, actually, Guardian IS good because of the high-accuracy SHK with Sheer Force, but that's easy for people to not notice so I'd make it clear (And also merge it with status inflicter since yeah).
Offensive Keine needs a blurb that it's only worthwhile if you're using Mokou as a main tank for their synergy, because that's a decent build; otherwise MAG Keine is just sorta... dumb.
Komachi doesn't have an ATK build listed at all even though she has a stronger-than-usual cannon in Scythe that Chooses The Dead and her counter is strong too, and having massive HP is still nice in that build. Also, Healer Komachi is useful as a tank since the added regen helps to cover up the Guardian dmg reduction loss and healing is a more useful move to learn; so they're both competent subclasses.
Apart from that it's fine. Reimu is actually a sorta okay attacker because Fantasy Seal has a very high damage formula (to help out her lower base stats) and you still get the support on the side (this is the selling point, sorta, for using supports offensively; they're almost all viable attackers in some way or another), and Guardian isn't a bad choice at all, for capitalizing on Grand Incantation.
I've theorycrafted way too much on LoT2 so if you continue building that page you can expect a lot of feedback from me :V
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That's fine by me. I love theorycrafting, so this will be a treat for me. :D
A question: What do you think about Monk as a subclass for Komachi? The Body Revitalization skill both buffs and heals her, and she can use Iron Mountain Charge effectively in an ATK build...
Also, I put in Herbalist as part of the set of subclasses that Keine can use as a Supporter, since she gains more options that way.
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I just played my first hour of this game, and successfully beat that squirrel thing. All I can say is that this game is INTENSE. (and judging by the discussion going on, I've only seen the tip of the iceberg) I have no idea what half the crap in the game does, and all the stuff i do understand is still way too confusing ??? Also, what do the triangle x things mean? (i think i've seen them before in pokemon)
EDIT: This game is great even though i cant understand it
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I just played my first hour of this game, and successfully beat that squirrel thing. All I can say is that this game is INTENSE. (and judging by the discussion going on, I've only seen the tip of the iceberg) I have no idea what half the crap in the game does, and all the stuff i do understand is still way too confusing ??? Also, what do the triangle x things mean? (i think i've seen them before in pokemon)
EDIT: This game is great even though i cant understand it
There is an English patch (here, specifically (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html)), and also the triangle and x things refer to monster weaknesses and resistances.
I finally rebeat the game with Team 9, and slowly going through the postgame to prep for being able to actually touch the LoT2+ trial. I really forgot how hard a lot of the Formidable Shadows were when you first come across them. :V
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Hello and welcome to the wonderful world of Labyrinth of Touhou. Beware of FOEs and enemies that are more than capable to party wipe your frontline. Your journey up is a long and arduous adventure.
Speaking of triangles and X, they're weaknesses. In pokemon, X is immunity, but not here. X means very weak. Resistances are depicted by circles and stars. One circle is resistant, Bullseye circle is very resistant, and star is extremely resistant/immune.
Hope this helps.
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Is it just me or Youmu feels so weak? She's inferior to Kasen as a physical attacker in almost every single way no matter how I look at it. Only perk she has going is that her skills are physical and maybe the stat increase at low HP along with the regeneration, but other than that, her damage doesn't seem to come close with her high MP high delay skills.
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Quite honestly I'd rate Youmu as one of the worst characters. The fact that she's still pretty usable is a good show of how there's not any -awful- characters in LoT2, but yeah. Her attack stat isn't that high and she doesn't have any particularly useful passives or particularly good moves... and for some reason most of them cost at least twice as much mp as an equivalent move would cost on others. Slash of Eternity is only as good as standard good-damage single target moves, -Kogasa- should easily meet or exceed it's damage. You can sorta deal with that and use Meikyo Shisui if you sub Guardian for Efficient Concentration, but... her moves aren't really good enough to warrant it, her atk/passives aren't good enough to make subs that exciting either, and with her low MND she's not a particularly bulky attacker either as looots of them surpass her durability easily.
She might catch up in postgame as you get better subclasses and her endless corridor skills, but probably isn't particularly worth it still; just... she'll be at a good enough point for ones who like her. 10% free stat increase if Yuyuko is in your party of 12 and up to 110% dmg increase from HP not being max are good, mostly the latter, and stat scaling with three Boost skills and how main equips go and such can let you bring her MND up to less abysmal levels; it'll never be good, but it'll make her not fall over from magic. It's saying something when Desperation is likely her best passive, though. :S Combined with the <110% dmg boost she'd want to be lower HP in general.
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I've finally got the drive to play LoT2 again, although I do most of the exploring not doing random encounters lol. ChenAya best team.
Aside from that... I'm stuck. I'm on The Great "C", but the MND ignoring attack is too much to handle
I'm checking gameplay video and then I saw their sky-high HP, this means I'm not that invested in library levels...
How do you farm money anyway? Grinding doesn't give me much. Also if you keep investing, how do you even achieve that 1 million money achievement then?
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I've finally got the drive to play LoT2 again, although I do most of the exploring not doing random encounters lol. ChenAya best team.
Aside from that... I'm stuck. I'm on The Great "C", but the MND ignoring attack is too much to handle
I'm checking gameplay video and then I saw their sky-high HP, this means I'm not that invested in library levels...
How do you farm money anyway? Grinding doesn't give me much. Also if you keep investing, how do you even achieve that 1 million money achievement then?
20F Depths is the best place for money and exp. Just keep grinding there, you'll get 1 million soon enough.
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I've finally got the drive to play LoT2 again, although I do most of the exploring not doing random encounters lol. ChenAya best team.
Aside from that... I'm stuck. I'm on The Great "C", but the MND ignoring attack is too much to handle
I'm checking gameplay video and then I saw their sky-high HP, this means I'm not that invested in library levels..
There's one thing that really trivilizes these guys; Bring out Hina. They're very weak to debuffs. Two or three casts and all five cookies will be -40~50% on every stat; likely even on just the second one, max Biorhythm only has like a 30% chance to miss on their atk and magic stat and like 15% on their speed.
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I derped and walked into the FOE on Floor 2 with a level 6 team. And I won :V So much for 'far too strong'
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How many stone of awakening are there to find? Also what's this Jewel of greater awakening? Where can I find it and does it give a better subclass power?
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How many stone of awakening are there to find? Also what's this Jewel of greater awakening? Where can I find it and does it give a better subclass power?
I believe that there are 12 of them, and getting all gives you the Jewel of Greater Awakening (through an achievement), which makes it so that you don't need Stones of Awakening to add subclasses.
One thing to note about Youmu: she does have low base MP, but is tied with Minoriko for the highest MP growth. This means post-game, she has pretty decent MP (and depending on the level cap, she can theoretically have a very large MP pool). Still doesn't make her that good, but interesting to consider.
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Hmm I only have 9 of them. Anywhere I can find their locations, at least the floors? The wikia seems to be missing 1 or 2 of them.
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Quite honestly I'd rate Youmu as one of the worst characters. The fact that she's still pretty usable is a good show of how there's not any -awful- characters in LoT2, but yeah. Her attack stat isn't that high and she doesn't have any particularly useful passives or particularly good moves... and for some reason most of them cost at least twice as much mp as an equivalent move would cost on others. Slash of Eternity is only as good as standard good-damage single target moves, -Kogasa- should easily meet or exceed it's damage. You can sorta deal with that and use Meikyo Shisui if you sub Guardian for Efficient Concentration, but... her moves aren't really good enough to warrant it, her atk/passives aren't good enough to make subs that exciting either, and with her low MND she's not a particularly bulky attacker either as looots of them surpass her durability easily.
Maybe Youmu is someone who needs the Maintenance skill to help her. Either that, or some alterations to her spell formulas(like reducing the defense influence on all of her spellcards, both in general and with each Skill Level)...
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Hmm I only have 9 of them. Anywhere I can find their locations, at least the floors? The wikia seems to be missing 1 or 2 of them.
I don't remember where they all are myself, but two are only found in the postgame areas.
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May I ask what achievement it is, that unlocks the Jewel of Greater Awakening ?
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Hmm I only have 9 of them. Anywhere I can find their locations, at least the floors? The wikia seems to be missing 1 or 2 of them.
'Wikia', you say? Do you mean the Touhou Wikia?
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I don't remember where they all are myself, but two are only found in the postgame areas.
Hmm I see, thanks for the info/
'Wikia', you say? Do you mean the Touhou Wikia?
Yup. But now that I know that the other 2 are in the postgame area, that makes it clear that the wikia is more or less complete.
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The achievement of finding all 12 Jewels of Awakening unlocks the Jewel of Greater Awakening.
Also, I thought we were all in the know about how the Touhou Wikia < Touhou Wiki.
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The achievement of finding all 12 Jewels of Awakening unlocks the Jewel of Greater Awakening.
Also, I thought we were all in the know about how the Touhou Wikia < Touhou Wiki.
Well It's just my habit lol.
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The achievement of finding all 12 Jewels of Awakening unlocks the Jewel of Greater Awakening.
I see, thank you :D
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Maybe Youmu is someone who needs the Maintenance skill to help her. Either that, or some alterations to her spell formulas(like reducing the defense influence on all of her spellcards, both in general and with each Skill Level)...
Youmu doesn't need something as powerful as Maintenance, that skill is just ridiculous and brings anyone to god tier.
She would be fairly good if she can just get a buff on her Mental Concentration. Right now, it is about equal to the other concentrate skills, even though that is her specialty in Labyrinth of Touhou 1.
If the value of Mental Concentrate triples (12 MP gain at level 4) or allows passive MP regeneration (4 MP gain at level 4) upon taking a turn, she will be good.
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I honestly think Youmu's problem is that she relies too much on stay in fighting power without having the defensive stats to actually stay out in the frontlines. Practically all her skills promote nuking with her high cost spells on one turn, concentrating the next turn, and then nuking again. Desperation and Regeneration work together, and Mental Concentration and Meikyo Shisui work together, keeping her MP, HP, and buffs at a good level to maxmize her damage.
Even if she has the balanced defensive stats to be a bulky attacker like Kanako, Youmu just requires too much effort.
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The issue with Youmu is her attacks are high-cost except they -aren't even good- compared to the moves of almost all the other attackers, and she's a bulky attacker with passives for that kind of build except her mnd is awful so she's not really a bulky attacker compared to the others either. Even if she had better mp regeneration, she's weak.
Her MP gimmick would be neat if her attacks actually warranted it, but her skills are just bad (Slash of Eternity has massive delay but isn't stronger than standard good single targets, and her multitargets have high DEF influence which becomes increasingly bad as time goes on) and her attack stat isn't particularly high.
But regardless, in postgame with endless corridor skills and triple stat boost scalings, she should be nice enough. Maybe?
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The issue with Youmu is her attacks are high-cost except they -aren't even good- compared to the moves of almost all the other attackers, and she's a bulky attacker with passives for that kind of build except her mnd is awful so she's not really a bulky attacker compared to the others either. Even if she had better mp regeneration, she's weak.
Her MP gimmick would be neat if her attacks actually warranted it, but her skills are just bad (Slash of Eternity has massive delay but isn't stronger than standard good single targets, and her multitargets have high DEF influence which becomes increasingly bad as time goes on) and her attack stat isn't particularly high.
But regardless, in postgame with endless corridor skills and triple stat boost scalings, she should be nice enough. Maybe?
...and that's why I actually suggested the Maintenance skill before. Her spell formulas and MND stat are bad enough that Maintenance becomes needed for Youmu to actually pull off a bulky attacker build without altering her attack formulas or stats. I do recall that that was the reason that Nitori has the skill, since it was stated that she wouldn't be able to keep up otherwise.
Still, that's a lazy man's way of solving it, and I would rather not be lazy on this sort of thing.
First off, I had stated before that her spellcards should ignore some of the enemy's DEF. To expand on that, how about each of her spellcards ignoring half the enemy's DEF at Lv 1 and 10% more DEF for each level above that? Would that work attackwise, seeing as DEF piercing attacks are a valuable thing in this game?
Defensively, it's hard to think of something that can help her outside of Maintenance or buffing her defensive stats(You know it's bad when Youmu's MND is at the same base number and growth rate per level as Chen's DEF). Maybe Guts could be a good skill for her to have so she would have a chance at not being one shotted?
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The issue with Youmu is her attacks are high-cost except they -aren't even good- compared to the moves of almost all the other attackers, and she's a bulky attacker with passives for that kind of build except her mnd is awful so she's not really a bulky attacker compared to the others either. Even if she had better mp regeneration, she's weak.
Her MP gimmick would be neat if her attacks actually warranted it, but her skills are just bad (Slash of Eternity has massive delay but isn't stronger than standard good single targets, and her multitargets have high DEF influence which becomes increasingly bad as time goes on) and her attack stat isn't particularly high.
You can build Youmu tanky (HP Youmu) enough to be in the first slot. You pretty need to just use regular attacks, since not doing so will bring her MP down to below max breaking her ability to gain stats.
It also means any time you use a skill, it takes 2 turns of concentration to get back all your MP assuming you maxed that concentration skill, which is a no go for me.
If her MP gimmick is buffed to say either 12 extra MP regen or 4 MP regen when she takes a turn works, then, she can actually use the high MP attacks regularly. Even if the formula so so, at least she'll be able to use those attacks and gain buffs from her Meikyo Shisui.
With this, she will be a decent character, especially with her new skill set. But without any changes, I'm not sure if even her new skill set will save her from being mediocre.
My build for Youmu is pretty much either Monk, Strategist, or Healer and go Meikyo Shisui, never using any special attacks. As Monk Subclass she will gain +16% buff, along with 14% HP recovery per turn which is pretty decent.
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You can build Youmu tanky (HP Youmu) enough to be in the first slot. You pretty need to just use regular attacks, since not doing so will bring her MP down to below max breaking her ability to gain stats.
It also means any time you use a skill, it takes 2 turns of concentration to get back all your MP assuming you maxed that concentration skill, which is a no go for me.
What are you talking about.... She recovers 10 MP per Concentrate at max level Mental Concentration with base MP recovery. The only spell that forces her to Concentrate twice after using it is God's Slash of Karmic Wind and that's easily fixed by +1 MP recovery equip.
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Yeah, it is easily fixed by a +1 MP recovery, but that means you need to use it instead of another equipment. There aren't any equipment with MP recovery that I would use with Youmu.
Unfortunately her best skill, with damage to delay ratio is God Slash of Karma Wind. Her other skill, Slash of Eternity's delay is just insane for not that much better damage.
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Yeah, it is easily fixed by a +1 MP recovery, but that means you need to use it instead of another equipment. There aren't any equipment with MP recovery that I would use with Youmu.
Unfortunately her best skill, with damage to delay ratio is God Slash of Karma Wind. Her other skill, Slash of Eternity's delay is just insane for not that much better damage.
What are you using for her Main Equip instead? Orb of Eartihin and Jogurt Doll are pretty easy MP recovery equips...
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What's a good mage for floor wiping in you guys opinion? I feel only Sanae and Suwako hit hard enough to do the job. I tried building Alice and Marisa to do the same but they just can't cut it. Even with the same Mag they fail to one shot people.
I'm on floor 19-20 btw.
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What's a good mage for floor wiping in you guys opinion? I feel only Sanae and Suwako hit hard enough to do the job. I tried building Alice and Marisa to do the same but they just can't cut it. Even with the same Mag they fail to one shot people.
IIRC i was using Kasen and the Udonge+Yuyuko combo with Aya. I only used Alice pretty much once, against the final boss to stack HVY, but I'm really interested to see her capabilites in the expansion.
Im also interested in Remilia, because as of right now, she feels like someone I don't want in my party.
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You can build Youmu tanky (HP Youmu) enough to be in the first slot. You pretty need to just use regular attacks, since not doing so will bring her MP down to below max breaking her ability to gain stats.
It also means any time you use a skill, it takes 2 turns of concentration to get back all your MP assuming you maxed that concentration skill, which is a no go for me.
If her MP gimmick is buffed to say either 12 extra MP regen or 4 MP regen when she takes a turn works, then, she can actually use the high MP attacks regularly. Even if the formula so so, at least she'll be able to use those attacks and gain buffs from her Meikyo Shisui.
With this, she will be a decent character, especially with her new skill set. But without any changes, I'm not sure if even her new skill set will save her from being mediocre.
Huh? But... if you're using regular attacks, her damage is going to be abysmal; not even close to being worth activating Meikyo Shisui (it's nice, it's not god. Monk+Strategist puts you at 100% forever which is sweet, but if you're normal attacking what's the point of having those buffs?). You could sub warrior and have someone cast Magic Circuit on her to keep Meikyo Shisui going, and the damage+delay would be okay, but I still don't really see it being worth your time when you could have someone much more useful using up that slot instead. Maybe postgame with her eternal corridor and the Blood Sword for HP drain on normal attacks that would work, actually, but Remilia and Iku would be stiff competition for this job with their own endgame stuff and far stronger normal attack bases to get through DEF/MND with, plus they wouldn't need magic circuit to make their passives functional.
And yeah, if you're willing to Concentrate, her mp really isn't an issue; only Wind of Karma etc costs more than 10 and if you really want to use it, you can use a main equip. If you're fighting a single target boss that isn't weak to WND (a pretty uncommon boss weakness from what I remember...) she'll likely do about the same or more damage with Present Life Slash to be honest, with it's lower def influence. But at that point, you're not a whole lot worse off just using warrior normals. And... hey, wait a second! If you're concentrating every other turn, you're instantly doing half the damage most other characters can pull off, because you're wasting half of your turns doing the same or less damage than they would. zzzzz. This is why Youmu is bad. If you have to concentrate every other turn, the fact she does the same or less damage as everyone else suddenly turns into doing effectively half their damage. But yeah in end-postgame she'll have a huge damage up to make up for that... albiet it's gimmicky so she'll still be meh, but, vastly more usable. (Plus in postgame you can sorta fix her MND and make her tankier. Or just tweak her HP harder for regen, but.)
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What's a good mage for floor wiping in you guys opinion? I feel only Sanae and Suwako hit hard enough to do the job. I tried building Alice and Marisa to do the same but they just can't cut it. Even with the same Mag they fail to one shot people.
I'm on floor 19-20 btw.
I usually adapt my trash cleaner party to hit the enemy's weakness (for example using Patchy for Princess Undine on the fire floors).
Yuyuko always works with her DTH and SPI is a decent enough element, plus she has a defense-piercing attack so that helps. Honestly, usually the mage you've invested the most in should cut it. I never had much trouble with floor trash wiping in LoT2, so... yeah. I've actually never tried an offensive build with Sanae, how effective is it? (I'd imagine Yasaka's Divine Wind would definitely benefit from it as well)
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I usually adapt my trash cleaner party to hit the enemy's weakness (for example using Patchy for Princess Undine on the fire floors).
Yuyuko always works with her DTH and SPI is a decent enough element, plus she has a defense-piercing attack so that helps. Honestly, usually the mage you've invested the most in should cut it. I never had much trouble with floor trash wiping in LoT2, so... yeah. I've actually never tried an offensive build with Sanae, how effective is it? (I'd imagine Yasaka's Divine Wind would definitely benefit from it as well)
Sanae does a great job. Especially on the dark floor before the heaven, her spirit nuke wipe anything out in 1 hit except the purple gem that's weak to wind since it resists spirit. Just put a Kasen or Nazrin on the front line to finish the job.
But Sanae is bad on floor 19-20 since people there resists spirit so yeah.
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If you're not averse to adjusting members, each stratum have popular elements to be weak to, so pick some characters with decent multi-target attacks in those elements, make them all Monks with Fast Dash and fire away.
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Huh? But... if you're using regular attacks, her damage is going to be abysmal; not even close to being worth activating Meikyo Shisui (it's nice, it's not god. Monk+Strategist puts you at 100% forever which is sweet, but if you're normal attacking what's the point of having those buffs?). You could sub warrior and have someone cast Magic Circuit on her to keep Meikyo Shisui going, and the damage+delay would be okay, but I still don't really see it being worth your time when you could have someone much more useful using up that slot instead. Maybe postgame with her eternal corridor and the Blood Sword for HP drain on normal attacks that would work, actually, but Remilia and Iku would be stiff competition for this job with their own endgame stuff and far stronger normal attack bases to get through DEF/MND with, plus they wouldn't need magic circuit to make their passives functional.
And yeah, if you're willing to Concentrate, her mp really isn't an issue; only Wind of Karma etc costs more than 10 and if you really want to use it, you can use a main equip. If you're fighting a single target boss that isn't weak to WND (a pretty uncommon boss weakness from what I remember...) she'll likely do about the same or more damage with Present Life Slash to be honest, with it's lower def influence. But at that point, you're not a whole lot worse off just using warrior normals. And... hey, wait a second! If you're concentrating every other turn, you're instantly doing half the damage most other characters can pull off, because you're wasting half of your turns doing the same or less damage than they would. zzzzz. This is why Youmu is bad. If you have to concentrate every other turn, the fact she does the same or less damage as everyone else suddenly turns into doing effectively half their damage. But yeah in end-postgame she'll have a huge damage up to make up for that... albiet it's gimmicky so she'll still be meh, but, vastly more usable. (Plus in postgame you can sorta fix her MND and make her tankier. Or just tweak her HP harder for regen, but.)
*blink*
I got it! Youmu needs Grand Incantation as a skill to buff her damage so that she can hit harder(she'll be using concentrate every other turn, so it makes sense). Would that work?
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Sanae is actually a really good damage dealer subbing Gambler only for double mp cost; she has very high mp regen after she can max her passive, and her moves are very cheap to start with, so it's not even hard. (This will be a non-option after the gambler nerf, though. She's still pretty alright afterwards, but not particularly compelling; you'd do it I guess if you wanted the family synergy but not her support, or just really liked offensive Sanae.)
*blink*
I got it! Youmu needs Grand Incantation as a skill to buff her damage so that she can hit harder(she'll be using concentrate every other turn, so it makes sense). Would that work?
This... would actually be really nice, yeah. -Really- nice. Works for her sort of suggested build gimmick perfectly and fixes the damage part up with no fuss. It'd just need a rename, which wouldn't be the first time someone in the game has the same ability with a different name slapped on.
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Its pretty funny when you think about it.... Kanako, a contender for quite possibly the best bulky attacker in the game, has Majesty to gain 6% buffs every turn for free while Youmu has to jump through hoops to make Meikyo Shisui gain 12% every two turns.
Kanako also comes with more balanced Elemental Affinities and Status Resistances, more useful spells (targetting DEF while being a MAG attack, inflicting Heavy, debuffing ATK and MAG), and stronger passives at the cost of lower SPD and level up rate.
Its not exactly fair to compare Youmu to the best of the best, but she doesn't even come remotely close to Kanako when it comes to being a bulky attacker.
Grand Incantation would be absolutely perfect. "Lore" wise, she could be like one of those swordsmen that excel at attacking while unsheathing her sword.
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Youmu in-canon tends to intensely concentrate or somesuch before doing a huge attack in her danmaku spells, anyway.
But yeah, Kanako is pretty intense. She's got an amazing endless corridor skill too and can also benefit more from the family synergy, so she'll continue to be awesome. Team Moriya is pretty sweet long-term... and yeah, probably a contender for making one use offensive Sanae since her buffs aren't particularly compelling in the end.
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What are you using for her Main Equip instead? Orb of Eartihin and Jogurt Doll are pretty easy MP recovery equips...
Primal Armor or First Aid Kit. They help defensively.
Huh? But... if you're using regular attacks, her damage is going to be abysmal; not even close to being worth activating Meikyo Shisui (it's nice, it's not god. Monk+Strategist puts you at 100% forever which is sweet, but if you're normal attacking what's the point of having those buffs?).
It isn't abysmal really. Regular attacks are 100% atk - 50% def I believe. 2 regular attacks is like 200% atk - 100% defense, that is equivalent to a spell card that Youmu has.
Since regular attacks have a delay to 70%, less if you get the Monk skill. It is very easy and very fast to buff her to stats. However, her damage will never be that impressive, but she will be a good switcher, while tanking.
And... hey, wait a second! If you're concentrating every other turn, you're instantly doing half the damage most other characters can pull off, because you're wasting half of your turns doing the same or less damage than they would. zzzzz. This is why Youmu is bad. If you have to concentrate every other turn, the fact she does the same or less damage as everyone else suddenly turns into doing effectively half their damage. But yeah in end-postgame she'll have a huge damage up to make up for that... albiet it's gimmicky so she'll still be meh, but, vastly more usable. (Plus in postgame you can sorta fix her MND and make her tankier. Or just tweak her HP harder for regen, but.)
Yes, I am aware of that. But it requires an MP recovery item, which is no go. If her MP recovery gets buffed, at least you can mix and match a bit more. It brings her from bad to mediocre.
Its not exactly fair to compare Youmu to the best of the best, but she doesn't even come remotely close to Kanako when it comes to being a bulky attacker.
Grand Incantation would be absolutely perfect. "Lore" wise, she could be like one of those swordsmen that excel at attacking while unsheathing her sword.
Yeah, she needs something, because looking at the new skill set, I don't think it will help her past being bad.
She's really hard to use right now and the best path I took was to just make her a tanky normal attacker and I can't even use any sub classes that power up normal attacks that messes with her MP, because she needs it to trigger Meikyo Shisui.
They could buff Desperation, because she's pretty nice with desperation on or a stronger desperation.
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It isn't abysmal really. Regular attacks are 100% atk - 50% def I believe. 2 regular attacks is like 200% atk - 100% defense, that is equivalent to a spell card that Youmu has.
Since regular attacks have a delay to 70%, less if you get the Monk skill. It is very easy and very fast to buff her to stats. However, her damage will never be that impressive, but she will be a good switcher, while tanking.
Yeah, it's equivalent to her worst attack, at 40% delay, or 46% after monk. High DEF influence gets increasingly problematic the farther you get in the game, which will have her hitting pretty depressing numbers against many of the bosses; generally the ones that are more problematic fights in the first place. And, yeah, you can sub Warrior to make them a good chunk better (Not that Meikyo Shisui or her tanking abilities are really worth it... in postgame with Blood Sword for draining normals maybe) if you have a Magician cast Magic Circuit on her now and again.
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But yeah, Kanako is pretty intense. She's got an amazing endless corridor skill too and can also benefit more from the family synergy, so she'll continue to be awesome. Team Moriya is pretty sweet long-term... and yeah, probably a contender for making one use offensive Sanae since her buffs aren't particularly compelling in the end.
I don't know, two of her Endless Corridor skills further push support / tank Sanae though. And while Miracle Fruit is worse than Duplicating Chant, its not THAT much worse plus if post game has taught us anything, its that having multiple people that can buff is a VERY good idea.
I should get back to exploring the Plus Disk Trial...
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Is there an easy way to get Great Tree's Leafs? I've spent the last 30 minutes and haven't gotten one. nevermind
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So, I've managed to beat this malignant eater's shadow with a yuyuko/reisen combo. And my Kasen is hitting the next shadow wasp for like 1 damage with it 2 shotting Komachi like nothing. What do I do to beat these?
Also for post game content, generally what's the Library level for you guys?
Edit: And according to the wiki, the dungeon part has 9 stones of awakening, which are floor 5 then 7-15. Is it missing one of these?
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Library levels sorta vary because some characters (byakuren) are a lot more expensive than others. But generally you should be sorta close to your level. Or well past it, on more important or cheaper leveling characters.
The first few bosses and the last few are the hardest, when it comes to the refights. The paralyzing wasp is also DTH'able, so you should probably just do that. After that most of them aren't a huge deal; the main issue is you have to get your buffs up IMMEDIATELY because it's the difference between handling attacks fine and your tanks getting one-shot (especially so on poison wasp). Even properly prepared, yes, it will do that; it's fine once you can get started without big losses. After that, the only thing I think you can DTH is the Glowing Azure Giant, and it isn't actually all that vulnerable; but if you just set up speed-build yuyuko in the front with Reisen and spam gameover-resets until it works, it won't take long.
Also, use Hina. Like, against every boss; all of them. For Biorhythm. You can make due with other debuffers instead if you've got several ones in your party, but Hina will make everything easier. Postgame can be very cruel without those debuffs and buffs up; even if you're surviving, people who don't do well at piercing def/mnd (whether through formula or sheer atk/mag) can struggle to hit decent numbers on a lot of fights, even good attackers like Kasen, and most bosses can have their offensive stats lowered after a few casting attempts which will make a world of difference.
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Does anyone have any tips for Komachi? (I could just grind, but I want the level reward bonus)
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This... would actually be really nice, yeah. -Really- nice. Works for her sort of suggested build gimmick perfectly and fixes the damage part up with no fuss. It'd just need a rename, which wouldn't be the first time someone in the game has the same ability with a different name slapped on.
Grand Incantation would be absolutely perfect. "Lore" wise, she could be like one of those swordsmen that excel at attacking while unsheathing her sword.
Well, I'm glad that I thought of it.
Does anyone have any tips for Komachi? (I could just grind, but I want the level reward bonus)
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Characters/Character-Building_Suggestions
This should help you out a bit.
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He wanted tips on how to beat the Komachi fight, not on how to build Komachi.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Dungeons/3F#Komachi_Onozuka
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He wanted tips on how to beat the Komachi fight, not on how to build Komachi.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Dungeons/3F#Komachi_Onozuka
Oh... Oops. :blush: :blush: :blush:
At least the reward for beating her is worth it, as Komachi is one of the best characters in the whole roster...
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Progress update: got 1 million money now, and proceed to sink it to library points, and realized that I almost never invested in library points. From 1 million money down to 100k money.
Even then...
The Great "C" are still very terrifying to fight. Even with debuffs on, they can shred anyone with their MND ignoring attack, and also Black Universe. Black Universe and that attack is guaranteed to kill my tanks. Also because of Black Universe, Komachi is not the tank for this. Other than that, having to deal with 5 of them at once is too terrifying. Seems like I can't beat them.
On the other note... The wiki said The Great "C" needed 2 formidable enemies' shadow to pass, but when I reached the rock, it said it gives way after pressing a switch... Is this a bug or am I missing something? Funny thing is I never did boss rush until after this.
EDIT: Ignore this, I got around it somehow.
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Library levels sorta vary because some characters (byakuren) are a lot more expensive than others. But generally you should be sorta close to your level. Or well past it, on more important or cheaper leveling characters.
The first few bosses and the last few are the hardest, when it comes to the refights. The paralyzing wasp is also DTH'able, so you should probably just do that. After that most of them aren't a huge deal; the main issue is you have to get your buffs up IMMEDIATELY because it's the difference between handling attacks fine and your tanks getting one-shot (especially so on poison wasp). Even properly prepared, yes, it will do that; it's fine once you can get started without big losses. After that, the only thing I think you can DTH is the Glowing Azure Giant, and it isn't actually all that vulnerable; but if you just set up speed-build yuyuko in the front with Reisen and spam gameover-resets until it works, it won't take long.
Also, use Hina. Like, against every boss; all of them. For Biorhythm. You can make due with other debuffers instead if you've got several ones in your party, but Hina will make everything easier. Postgame can be very cruel without those debuffs and buffs up; even if you're surviving, people who don't do well at piercing def/mnd (whether through formula or sheer atk/mag) can struggle to hit decent numbers on a lot of fights, even good attackers like Kasen, and most bosses can have their offensive stats lowered after a few casting attempts which will make a world of difference.
I've never used Hina since I liked reisen more lol. So she's more effective as a debuffer?
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Hina's debuffs are more accurate than Reisen's (even when accounting for Reisen's passive... I think.), hit the entire field at once (Granted, this includes your party, but as long as you get Warding Away Bad Luck and maybe the Hexer subclass's defense thing, it's not that bad, really) and with the Hexer's Strengthening passive you're looking at about -40% to a stat if the debuff lands. Or -33% without. Reisen is -20% or -16% and single target.
And perhaps even more importantly, Hina is -really tanky-, especially if you dump a first aid kit on her for her HP, but even without, she has very high MND and moderately nice DEF, wheras Reisen is fairly liable to die. The only real tradeoff is if you build her as a tank she doesn't do damage, but the debuffs are ridiculous.
...Reisen can pretty much cover it for single target bosses if your attackers have debuffs on the side and you make sure not to lose her, though.
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I'm thinking of making a separate page for an overview of the whoie 11F - 16F extra areas, giving information like the rest of the Stone of Awakening and some noteworthy enemies.
So, I wanted to ask if we should move the extra bosses (Cookie, Second Sun, Desire demon, Culex) information to this extra area page or just leave them as that.
Also, in LoT2, Reisen is given a huge buff in her defensive stats. She is actually as tanky as Alice now, and that's not even taking her self-buff into accounts.
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I've been sitting and finding my last stone of awakening in the main game for 3 hours now. So sad :( I currently have 10 stones, with 1 from the post game area but I can't find the bloody 1 stone left with like every single tile explored from floor 5-15. //rant
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I'm thinking of making a separate page for an overview of the whoie 11F - 16F extra areas, giving information like the rest of the Stone of Awakening and some noteworthy enemies.
So, I wanted to ask if we should move the extra bosses (Cookie, Second Sun, Desire demon, Culex) information to this extra area page or just leave them as that.
I'd say move them. It'd be weird to have the whole overview (don't forget 8-10F!) and then "go look at this other page for the boss". Much simpler to have everything together
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I've been wondering if I could get some help with the F12 Tenshi fight.
My party is the following:
Mokou
Hexer Hina
Enchanter Keine
Patchouli
Eirin
Kasen
Reisen
Nitori
Satori
Minoriko
Komachi
and Kaguya
Is there someone I should put in instead of someone else, or should I keep my party as it is?
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Rumia/Satori combo can do some massive damage on that fight, like, enough that with a bit of setup tweaking you can effortlessly cheese it. But, just throwing her in to replace a non-effective attacker with minimal investment into her MAG is fine too. Honestly, I don't know much about how to do the fight normally, because opening up with Satori/Rumia and characters to buff their mag/speed gave me enough DPS that Tenshi never got to use an unscripted move, none of which were attacks. Parsee's passive DRK boost can also help if you want to go that route, and in any case Kaguya should do big damage as well; Reisen and Eirin have potential due to piercing def/mnd and having her weakness but you'll need to apply debuffs first if you're gonna use them.
And no, Reisen still isn't a particularly durable character. She's not glassy by any means as she has fair stats, but her def is fairly eh and her hp/mnd are only just good enough to be pretty alright. In any case she won't even remotely compare to a character built for tanking. I mean, I guess you could build Reisen for durability as she Discards, but if you do that it seems like a waste to not use Hina instead; Reisen's biggest upside is actually doing damage at the same time. (Alice has about 1 base more def and 1.5 base more mnd along with huge EVA, so I'd say she's fairly more tanky, although it's true that Reisen isn't terribly far behind; she's similar if synergy is up. Alice's EVA potential is pretty sweet, though.)
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I've been sitting and finding my last stone of awakening in the main game for 3 hours now. So sad :( I currently have 10 stones, with 1 from the post game area but I can't find the bloody 1 stone left with like every single tile explored from floor 5-15. //rant
http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/
If that's so, I think you should compare your map with the one on the Japanese wiki.
Go here. First, you need the Google Translate function to render it in English. I think the translation of one of the menu should say "Dungeon cheat". Find that one,click it and select the floor number. It will tell you all about the map and the item's location.
I guess you miss the last 2 stones on Floor 13 and 14 since both are quite tricky to find. You have to drop down onto one of the holes from the above floor.
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I'm thinking of making a separate page for an overview of the whoie 11F - 16F extra areas, giving information like the rest of the Stone of Awakening and some noteworthy enemies.
So, I wanted to ask if we should move the extra bosses (Cookie, Second Sun, Desire demon, Culex) information to this extra area page or just leave them as that.
Also, in LoT2, Reisen is given a huge buff in her defensive stats. She is actually as tanky as Alice now, and that's not even taking her self-buff into accounts.
I disagree with moving them. I'd rather have the bosses listed in the floor they're actually found on.
If you must do an overview of the extra areas, put two overviews on the extra areas, one for floors above on floor 13 and one for floors below on floor 11.
Actually, now that I think about it some more, I'd actually much rather just have a floor overview for each extra area floor on the floor itself. Is there a way to spoiler tag on the wiki?
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Wouldn't it be better to just have them in "postgame __F" as if it's a seperate floor than force postgame info onto the earlygame page? This has already been done for the postgame Shadow bosses, after all. I think it's pretty silly as it is that the postgame superbosses are listed on the floors so you instantly see them the first time you open the wiki page to peek at the normalgame boss stats. Spoiler-hiding entire sections of info sounds like a pain and it'd be for no real purpose, if it's even possible.
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I was only talking about spoiling the overview of the extra areas. The boss info can stay where it is just like its done in the LoT1 pages.
But you're right, putting the info in a spoiler is excessive. I don't know it feels like the current Postgame page already does enough. Its not like we're writing a walkthrough on how progress in the extra areas. Its just supposed to be a little summary of what to expect (notable enemies for example).
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http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/
If that's so, I think you should compare your map with the one on the Japanese wiki.
Go here. First, you need the google Translate function to render it in English. I think the translation of one of the menu should say "Dungeon cheat". Find that one,click it and select the floor number. It will tell you all about the map and the item's location.
I guess you miss the last 2 stones on Floor 13 and 14 since both are quite tricky to find. You have to drop down onto one of the holes from the above floor.
Wow, thanks a whole bunch!! I've found it! The one i was missing was on the 13th floor where you have to drop consecutively for 2 times from F15 down to F13. Thanks again for the information :]
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What's a good mage for floor wiping in you guys opinion? I feel only Sanae and Suwako hit hard enough to do the job. I tried building Alice and Marisa to do the same but they just can't cut it. Even with the same Mag they fail to one shot people.
I'm on floor 19-20 btw.
bit of a late response but I've had really good results with Aya + Patchouli (or optionally Kaguya). Patchouli hits hard enough to kill a lot of enemies instantly if you hit a weakness and she regenerates MP every turn if you have the appropriate passive/slot. MP for Aya is a bit of an issue but you can have her Concentrate and then pass a turn to Patchouli before any enemies act most of the time.
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bit of a late response but I've had really good results with Aya + Patchouli (or optionally Kaguya). Patchouli hits hard enough to kill a lot of enemies instantly if you hit a weakness and she regenerates MP every turn if you have the appropriate passive/slot. MP for Aya is a bit of an issue but you can have her Concentrate and then pass a turn to Patchouli before any enemies act most of the time.
I think both patchy and kaguya is a bit too slow for the job. Unless I find a way to pump a tons of speed the enemy will 1 shot them most of the time :/
Unless yeah you're using aya so you get to hit first.
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SPD Build Aya can be pretty silly, yeah. Considering she has a 100% go-first-turn passive and that, yeah, if you build for speed (and she's got a passive spd buff too) you move pretty blindingly fast, it's just not usually worth building a character specifically for SPD. If you sub her Guardian for efficient concentration that'd go pretty well for randoms regardless of your party.
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Hello everyone, I'm mariarthas, and i have a little problem and wanted to know if someone could help me.
Yesterday i was playing Labyrinth of Touhou 2 all normal and saved the file before going to sleep.
But today i opened the game and the save file was like "empty" like i never saved a game in that slot.
Has someone got something similar or knows the solution?
Any help will be appreciated.
Sorry for my bad English =P
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Thanks a lot for the help with the Tenshi fight, it was much easier with Rumia/Satori than i thought it would be :3
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Well a bit late here but I just finished every last boss the game has to offer. Sadly with Aya.
SPD Build Aya can be pretty silly, yeah. Considering she has a 100% go-first-turn passive and that, yeah, if you build for speed (and she's got a passive spd buff too) you move pretty blindingly fast, it's just not usually worth building a character specifically for SPD. If you sub her Guardian for efficient concentration that'd go pretty well for randoms regardless of your party.
Yeah, the thing here with Aya is that she kinda breaks the game, especially with Diva subclass. I can't find a way to beat the very last post game boss and the one before it and has to choose the so-called forbidden technique in my dictonary, the Diva Aya. There the game then finishes then in less than 30 mins.
Still the boss before the very last, I can't seem to survive it with anything. My main tanks are Healer Komachi, Hp boosted Kourin, Strategist Byakuren and Hexer Hina and those dies fast. Their library level on defenses are roughly 100. Also I tried using Tenshi and most of the time she disappoint me by being 1 hit killed with the same investments as above people, have I been doing something wrong? This frustration after grinding led me to just screw this, unleash the Aya. And yeah the final boss had the same fate.
Also how many first aid kits are there in the game? I've found 3 maybe that's all of it?
PS. for the vague way of saying about the boss, It's because I don't know how to spoiler tag, so how do I spoiler tag?
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Well a bit late here but I just finished every last boss the game has to offer. Sadly with Aya.
Yeah, the thing here with Aya is that she kinda breaks the game, especially with Diva subclass. I can't find a way to beat the very last post game boss and the one before it and has to choose the so-called forbidden technique in my dictonary, the Diva Aya. There the game then finishes then in less than 30 mins.
Still the boss before the very last, I can't seem to survive it with anything. My main tanks are Healer Komachi, Hp boosted Kourin, Strategist Byakuren and Hexer Hina and those dies fast. Their library level on defenses are roughly 100. Also I tried using Tenshi and most of the time she disappoint me by being 1 hit killed with the same investments as above people, have I been doing something wrong? This frustration after grinding led me to just screw this, unleash the Aya. And yeah the final boss had the same fate.
Also how many first aid kits are there in the game? I've found 3 maybe that's all of it?
PS. for the vague way of saying about the boss, It's because I don't know how to spoiler tag, so how do I spoiler tag?
Library levels 100.
Yeah you found the problem right there. I'm in the same boat as you. You really need high library levels just to survive. Ideally it's on par with your character level, so be prepared to spend a lot of money. I suggest you finish the one million money achievement first. 20F Depths will help you with that, just bring Flandre and kill all the encounters there.
I'm also had 100 library levels for boss-killing characters, which is actually not enough. Also modify your character level up bonus for specific bosses, that helps too, if somewhat tedious. (why LoT2 doesn't have +-10 stats or +-all stats ugh)
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The thing with library level is that it's more efficient on those with lower base stats from level? Since well the bonus is the same for everyone.
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The bonus should be a percentage thing of some form, isn't it? (There's several tiers where the %s factor in, so it may not be obvious; level bonus, level up in general, library, equipment... in LoT1 they were all the same % so scaling lategame was meh, but LoT2 split 'em up) Those with lower base stats tend to have cheaper library levels, though.
100 is sorta low for end-postgame for sure, though. Even the really expensive people. But ones like your main tanks should have extra, while squishies don't need as much in their defenses, as well as characters who overall are barely out for long, etc.
You use spoiler with [spoiler.] and [/spoiler.], but without periods. Being less vague is probably good since it's hard to tell what the semi-final postgame boss is considered to be, although I can guess you mean Guardian of the Crystals
. In any case I don't have much experience using tank Komachi, although Rinnosuke with Def/Mnd/HP/Affinity high boosts is pretty beastly and Byakuren/Hina are solid. Once some buffs and debuffs are laid out they shouldn't be having a problem; and as your main tanks, they definitely should have extra library investment compared to the rest of your team.
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Can anyone give me a link to the devs twitter?
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https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso
Godbert Manderville warning, do not click link if you can't handle his memetic manliness.
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Huh. I was wondering why I recognized your name in the talkhaus.
Anyways I'm surprised there hasn't been more posts about the Plus Disk Demo. I haven't personally played much past the first floor but the thread became silent a lot quicker than I thought it would.
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Huh. I was wondering why I recognized your name in the talkhaus.
Anyways I'm surprised there hasn't been more posts about the Plus Disk Demo. I haven't personally played much past the first floor but the thread became silent a lot quicker than I thought it would.
I'm just waiting for it to come out fully lol so no surprises. Not sure about the others though.
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Since this got bumped,
Kirin no Sora, if you see this, could you update the English Patch for LoT1 in the OP? I released an updated version some time ago that fixes a handful of things, including some incorrect translations and missing graphics.
http://www.mediafire.com/?t1v567p5sced1zl
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Since this got bumped,
Kirin no Sora, if you see this, could you update the English Patch for LoT1 in the OP? I released an updated version some time ago that fixes a handful of things, including some incorrect translations and missing graphics.
http://www.mediafire.com/?t1v567p5sced1zl
Oh, thanks for that. I'm actually glad that I'm using my Chromebook today, if only to find this. I can presume that it's for the 3.01 version of the game, yes?
Edit: Done, I've updated the link.
2nd edit(because I refuse to double post): Since people have said about how Grand Incantation on Youmu is a good idea, I thought of something. A new skill for Youmu...
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Intense Focus (This skill would be replacing Mental Concentration)
Skill Cost: 8
Max Level: 3
When Youmu uses Concentrate, gain (SLv * 2) MP and the next attack will be boosted by 1.5 + (SLv * 0.5).
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Considering that this skill is effectively both an upgrade to her MP recovery skill(maxing it would grant her 12 MP per focus, barring any MP recovery boosting equipment) and a better version of Grand Incantation(max level grants a 3x damage boost after a focus, while Grand Incantation only gives a 2.4x boost) all in one, I do wonder if this skill is OP. What do you guys think?
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Kinda late but sorry for being slack about my roster update thing. I kinda stopped cold turkey at 20f because I had computer issues for a couple weeks, then dungeon travelers 2 finally had a sale on the PSN so I was playing that, then trails of cold steel came out, then I snagged a ps4 for 280 canadian no tax via craigslist, so I was playing bloodborne and and... yeah.
I haven't started again yet either, just figured I should stop feeling guilty and just fess up my slackness. Cuz of that I've actually been avoiding the forum in general lol, did I miss anything recent regarding ThLaby2's expansion?
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LoT2 has been lagging for some reason which I have no idea of (like, the sounds for the skills end before the animations do, and everything moves very slowly), and it's very aggravating. Does anyone know the reason why :derp:
Re-downloaded the game, but it didn't work.
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LoT2 has been lagging for some reason which I have no idea of (like, the sounds for the skills end before the animations do, and everything moves very slowly), and it's very aggravating. Does anyone know the reason why :derp:
Re-downloaded the game, but it didn't work.
My laptop does that because it is slow. What are your specs?
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LoT2 has been lagging for some reason which I have no idea of (like, the sounds for the skills end before the animations do, and everything moves very slowly), and it's very aggravating. Does anyone know the reason why :derp:
Re-downloaded the game, but it didn't work.
Maybe turn off Visual Effects? It sounds like it suddenly became a problem, but Visual Effects is usually why my framerate drops because my computer is crap.
Also, Ghaleon there's been nothing regarding the Plus Disk release afaik.
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I haven't started again yet either, just figured I should stop feeling guilty and just fess up my slackness. Cuz of that I've actually been avoiding the forum in general lol, did I miss anything recent regarding ThLaby2's expansion?
You missed the large amounts of datamining people have been doing in regards to what has been found in the game. It's around page... 13 and 14 or so in this thread where people found a lot of stuff hidden in the game files. Mostly skills, characters, item descriptions, and floor names.
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Actually this has been a problem for quite a while now... A few months actually lol :derp:
It seems that only the battle screen is slow, though - the menu and the exploration screens are about fine - and I have Visual Effects off. And IDK what are specs sry lol :derp: :derp: :derp:
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It seems that only the battle screen is slow, though - the menu and the exploration screens are about fine - and I have Visual Effects off. And IDK what are specs sry lol :derp: :derp: :derp:
Sorry, but unless you get a better processor or video card there's probably nothing you can do if Visual Effects are already off. Touhou Labyrinth 2 isn't the most optimized game.
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Oh, that's sad :(
nvm, for the love of the LABYRINTH I will persevere
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You missed the large amounts of datamining people have been doing in regards to what has been found in the game. It's around page... 13 and 14 or so in this thread where people found a lot of stuff hidden in the game files. Mostly skills, characters, item descriptions, and floor names.
nice, I like technical details and such. I never actually played lot2 much since after alot of the hidden data was revealed (like spell formulas), which I really should do because not seeing the formulas was kinda one of the biggest beefs I had with the game.
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Hey guys, in LoT2, it said that Hard Mode imposed a limit on library levels (1.2x the character's level). Is there anything for that on normal? I checked the wiki and couldn't find any hard numbers, nor any ingame.
Edit; Also, are skill resets unlimited now? I've noticed the wiki says there's a limited number of resets you get, but I've reset like a billion times to try it out and it didn't seem to be limited (I don't THINK I've installed any mods to change it but then again I haven't touched my copy in ages).
Nevermind I'm a idiot. you only use tomes of reincarnation if you wanna get stat up! items back.
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There's no library level limit on Normal, and the Hard Mode limitations go away after beating the "final" boss on 20F for the first time. Hard Mode also prevents you from fighting a boss with anyone higher level than the boss's recommended challenge level, wheras normal you're simply encouraged to keep your party's AVERAGE level there to get special stat up gems, but don't have to, and can also cheese gems via leaving one slot unused/underleveled and overleveling everyone else.
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Hey there, I've found something interesting at the jap wiki regarding the current Plus Disk Trial:
- Kogasa's MP recovery rate is 32 (I'm pretty sure that is a coding error)
- You can now distribute multiple level-up bonuses at the shrine. While holding down A button, press right or left will decrease or increase the bonus by 10 points, and by 100 points if you hold down the S button instead.
Unrelated note: I just notice that Wriggle's Comet on Earth in LoT1 has different spell animations every time it is used. Iku's LoT2 Thundercloud Stickleback also has different sound effects every time it is used.
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- You can now distribute multiple level-up bonuses at the shrine. While holding down A button, press right or left will decrease or increase the bonus by 10 points, and by 100 points if you hold down the S button instead.
ABOUT TIME WE HAVE THIS FEATURE! I'm sick of holding arrow button just to distribute bonuses.
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What exactly do you mean by a defensive party? I know you're using a hyperbole, but obviously no one really thinks a team full of nukers is going to get them through the game. If there were ever people that actually thought that, they'd learn very quickly that its not possible.
I've cleared the full game with so many parties now it's non-sensical. You can beat LoT1 with almost any party you RNG up, as long as you nail a decent tank and decent healer. Skillful play is so absurdly rewarded in this game it's dumb. You can straight up let two characters die in the the WINNER fight, and use those as 'tanks' while you swap stuff in and out.
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WINNER is a pretty awkward measure of anything, because stats are so massively inflated (e.g. Yuugi can replace her MND with affinities to make her a first slot tank in full atk build) and due to the length of his fight and rng and the grindwall and different party setups, people decide to fight him at any point between like... lv450 and 650, which of course has drastic changes on difficulty.
This is only tangentially related, but it's really too bad that his fight takes like half an hour even if you're majorly overleveled, because it sorta counters the "fight him more than once" thing. His fight is an endurance slog and mostly pretty boring until the late phase(s). That's fine for one go, but over and over? It gets old very quickly.
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I enjoy his fight greatly... I do not enjoy grinding up to it. It's strange though, because I felt like he'd be a cakewalk until later phases too, but last time I played, I was AT the final phase, and he was using some of his nasty spells and all. But then he pulled out the old flame wand or whatever attack it's called... the fire attack he can use right at the very first turn. In any case, that attack made me go 'WHOAH! ouch!' moreso than like the last 30 attacks he made =P.
Of course I had china and remi tanking and had high defensive stats moreso than affinities on both (I don't NEGLECT affinities per say, I just don't spend more levels on them than everything else or whatever).
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So, I've been gone for like months, but what's all this that I'm hearing about the plus disk? Was it finally released?
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So, I've been gone for like months, but what's all this that I'm hearing about the plus disk? Was it finally released?
Only the trial version of the Plus Disk has been released, if the full game is already out, there'd be a lot more discussion in here. Speaking of which, I really need to get back to my character draft run...
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Ugh I just want to say screw 9f Tenshi
I pounded my head against her for like a hour or two before finally giving up and just going hail mary all in on Iku and just doing a heal cheese stall party to enable her to slowly just attack Tenshi to death.
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I'm sure this has been asked before, but I'm asking anyway: What's the best team for 20F Depths?
My current team is:
Front Row:
Meiling
Remilia
Kasen
Aya
Back Row:
Iku (to be switched in by Aya)
Komachi
Rinnosuke
Nazrin
Flandre
Suika
Yuugi
Momiji
Ideally, the front row attackers attack until they run out of TP, at which point Aya will switch in various characters who can 1-shot the current boss. Once everyone's TP is low enough, Rinnosuke will be switched into the front row for the increased money bonus from the consecutive battle bonus, and once he runs out of TP, Komachi will be switched in. After that, Nazrin will be switched in (by Aya, who will still have TP) and they will farm all the monys. Ideally. Oh and Aya can kill stuff too.
The last part I'm not too sure about, whether I should keep Komachi, Rinnosuke, and Nazrin, since they can't 1-shot any boss, but they give mony bonuses and stuff so
On an unrelated note, does anyone know where to find the stats, spellcards, and skills of the Plus Disc characters that are currently released? (who is released anyway)
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Have you beaten the final boss yet? Regardless, Flandre is the way to go for grinding in the 20F Depths. With the right equip, Gambler class, and ATK boost, she can mow down anything with just Starbow Break. If it's still too weak, Laevatein is the only way to go.
Pair up with Remilia just in case, having synergy and cleaning up things that didn't get one-shotted by Starbow Break.
Also, hi Manic :3
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Actually I'm mostly focused on making the run as long as possible, and Flandre has a tiny TP pool so it wouldn't be ideal (but i boosted that with Drums) oh and my characters levels are about 135 or so
omg are you from the lobby of touhou gundams i've not seen you for so long
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Speaking of Flandre, I managed to beat her on the second try :3 (although i was pretty overleveled...)
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There's a lot of PHYS-weak enemies on 20F depths Flan can nearly one-shot with her normal attack around that level I think, actually (especially with some money dumping into it). Starbow Break is awkward because it annihilates her TP. Iku can work similarly for MYS-weak enemies (of which there is also a lot on 20F) because daaaaamn Sorceror Iku's normal attack is murderous.
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I don't know if it have been said in the earlier posts, but when the full Plus Disk comes out, will it be translated to english?
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I haven't been particularly active in this community lately (as if it's the only english touhou community but it seems like it is for every game I care about being fan-translated at the very least, though qazmplok ( forgot spelling, but it's close and dude has many names but qas is the one on this forum iirc, I'd mention others, one I can spell for sure but dunno if he renamed it to avoid recognition on purpose)/deranged kinda try to cover them all when they do their thing from what I've seen) seem to try and cover every English Touhou fan community. So I'm not exactly an authority, but if there is any activity recently, I would expect yes. touhou labyrinth seems like a highly respected game in the english community that seems to have been drama free, plus the original dev doesn't seem to try and screw fan-translations/modders like the dude does for fushigi no gensokyou.
I kinda wish touhou laby was on playism instead of that yukkuri game, which isn't a bad choice by any means but... I think thlaby would have been a better choice.
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dude has many names
No I don't.
When the plus disc comes out, I'll do my part. That still requires translators and image editors (I plan on bullying canon on twitter, since he did say he'd do lot2 and didn't).
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Does anyone know if there's a way to compress videos of LoT1 taken from Fraps for uploading to youtube, without making it super blurry after uploading?
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Once again, I'm stuck at a boss, and I'm wondering is someone could help me out. It's the 16F Black Goddess of Fetility.
I can take the hits pretty easily, my problem is just that I don't do enough damage before it heals itself.
My team:
Guardian Mokou
Byakuren
Nitori
Kaguya
Patchouli
Meiling
Suika
Minoriko
Reisen
Kasen
Eirin
Hexer Hina
Suika
Levels ranging from 75-84.
Is there any change I should make to my team?
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Once again, I'm stuck at a boss, and I'm wondering is someone could help me out. It's the 16F Black Goddess of Fetility.
I can take the hits pretty easily, my problem is just that I don't do enough damage before it heals itself.
It's weak to SPI, WND, and PHY, and you've got heavy hitters for a lot of those elements in your party- Meiling (I'd try out Brilliant Light Gem for this fight if you were using Mountain Breaker- iirc it wrecks face here), Nitori, Suika, Kaguya... wait suika is in your list twice :V Anyway, the point is, you've already got more than enough ideal nukers for the fight, and the boss dies -really- fast if you buff everyone up/debuff it and then go to town on it as fast as you can. Just prepare all your stuff before you go on the offensive- get most of them buffed -before- you start expending mp on attacking, and then have Meiling rain pain down from the second slot whilst swapping nukers in/out of the others. TBH I'm surprised you have trouble since this fight is a cakewalk if you've got half the nukers you do. Maybe you need to adjust their build or spend some library money to up the power a little? I'm assuming at least some do have subclasses on and that Hina/Mokou aren't the only ones. Gambler is OP as hell on the glassy nukers- double damage is double damage.
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Does anyone know if there's a way to compress videos of LoT1 taken from Fraps for uploading to youtube, without making it super blurry after uploading?
I used to use this handy tutorial from drake using megui for doing that sort of thing like 4 years ago, but it stopped working for me after I got a new pc a couple years ago
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1260.0
It says it's very outdated, so it probably doesn't work anymore, but yeah, I can't really offer any newer advice myself sorry, but it's worth a shot if you're pulling your hair out I guess.
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Does anyone know if there's a way to compress videos of LoT1 taken from Fraps for uploading to youtube, without making it super blurry after uploading?
I just use OBS for my video recordings now. Fraps file sizes are too cumbersome to deal with and I'd rather not have to compress the video before uploading it.
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Just beat Yukari in LoT1, Reimu 79. I only attacked her with Suwako during the entire battle. It helped that I have put all level up bonuses into her attack and leveled her attack skp to 80+. With a fresh buff from Iku she did 200k each hit. Battle was super easy :V
EDIT: Finally got past Rinno again at Reimu 95. Hate that fight, so glad to be moving on.
EDIT EDIT: Mari beaten at Reimu 131, Was having a good run, then game crashed, second attempt was kinda bad and I ended up getting overrun during the last phase with only Meiling left. Third time was the charm and I think I only had maybe 3 casualties at most.
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Just showing that doing damage to Mari before killing her last summon DOES help. (https://youtu.be/fAdli3Ir7p4) I only had to do about 780k damage after she uses Overflowing Unnatural Power.
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Yeah in my second attempt I barely damaged Mari going into the final phase and it was probably what killed me in the end, as I did what seemingly felt like a million in damage and she never died :(
But yeah my Mari party was Meiling, Reimu, Ran (first time using her for the game), Iku (first time using her for bosses), Alice (tanky build), Rinnosuke, Youmu, Nitori, Suwako, Kaguya, Komachi and Patchouli.
My party for traversing the dungeons was Meiling, Ran, Alice, Rinno, Youmu, Nitori, Suwako, Kaguya, Komachi, Patchouli, Orin and Mokou/Flan
Now that she's done I'm half-grinding, half-playing around with other characters. Seeing if I can fit Yuyuko into the team to help with 20F mobs.
Otherwise some of the V2's are kicking my ass right now, I'm Reimu 143 so that feels like it shouldn't happen but it's happening. In all fairness, I'm not using any strategy I'm just nuking them to death with no preparation, so that might have something to do with it.
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Don't know how you could go about checking this but could someone check if the bestiary entry in game for Shredding boss is wrong? I ended up debuffing him to hell and back when I fought him just now without even using something like Reisen's skill to reduce ailment defense. 1 or 2 lucky ones slipping through I could see but having basically all of them work when he supposedly has a * resistance to it seems really unlikely to me.
Also while I'm already posting does someone mind adding something to the postgame enhanced boss section of the wiki for me? I wanted to add that the Dark Orb of Reverse Time also detonates itself if its the last orb left but requesting an account takes a bit.
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The ingame debuff resist only shows their resistance to ATK debuffs, iirc. There is a separate resist for each kind of debuff, so a boss can heavily resist SPD debuffs but be very vulnerable to all the others, for example.
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I've grinded at least 90 levels now on 20F alone and I'm still only as far as 23F but I must push through
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Don't know how you could go about checking this but could someone check if the bestiary entry in game for Shredding boss is wrong? I ended up debuffing him to hell and back when I fought him just now without even using something like Reisen's skill to reduce ailment defense. 1 or 2 lucky ones slipping through I could see but having basically all of them work when he supposedly has a * resistance to it seems really unlikely to me.
Also while I'm already posting does someone mind adding something to the postgame enhanced boss section of the wiki for me? I wanted to add that the Dark Orb of Reverse Time also detonates itself if its the last orb left but requesting an account takes a bit.
As Serela said, the bestiary only lists Debuff-Attack. Everything else is significantly lower
"Debuff-Mind": 0,
"Debuff-Accuracy": 50,
"Debuff-Magic": 0,
"Debuff-Defense": 0,
"Debuff-Evasion": 50,
"Debuff-Speed": 25,
"Debuff-Attack": 100,
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Huh. There's numbers for Accuracy and Evasion debuffs. I suppose it makes sense they'd be in there simply because those exist as debuffs in the code, although I can't recall any... there's only a couple (unusual) methods of obtaining them as buffs, either, such as Ran's special Chen buff and Reimu's main character passive buff.
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(http://puu.sh/oX7m8/d58dd881ee.png)
So I was fighting Shikieiki with my draft run team; she had just launched her third Last Judgement and immediately used Focus on turn 13. I didn't count damage since I was recording, so I had no idea how many HP she had left, but luckily for me three of the four characters needed to do a quick damage rush were already on field. All I needed to do was switch Minoriko out for Flandre.
However, Yukari was going to have her turn soon, and if Minoriko used that turn to switch herself out for Flandre Yukari would have gotten her turn before Flandre, which is obviously not what I want, so Minoriko should stay on the field for this one turn. Defense buffs and heals obviously don't matter any more when Bar of Ten Kings is coming next turn, so I did the only thing that made sense: launch a Falling Leaves of Madness.
It did 57k damage to Eiki and KO'd her.
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The ingame debuff resist only shows their resistance to ATK debuffs, iirc. There is a separate resist for each kind of debuff, so a boss can heavily resist SPD debuffs but be very vulnerable to all the others, for example.
Ah all right. I had noticed different resists to each stat debuff but I figured the rating given for debuff resist would be all of them taken together instead of based on just one of them. My mistake then.
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At what level does 24-25F trash become nicely grindable? Cos I'm currently Reimu 217 and its not like hard to clear but mostly annoying to clear and sometimes if they use the wrong attacks both Meiling and slot 2 tank die.
Currently doing all battles there with Meiling/Rinno or Komachi/Mystia/Kaguya and Earthshakers are still proving to be a bit of an issue and I'm quite reliant on PAR for a good fight still.
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At what level does 24-25F trash become nicely grindable? Cos I'm currently Reimu 217 and its not like hard to clear but mostly annoying to clear and sometimes if they use the wrong attacks both Meiling and slot 2 tank die.
Currently doing all battles there with Meiling/Rinno or Komachi/Mystia/Kaguya and Earthshakers are still proving to be a bit of an issue and I'm quite reliant on PAR for a good fight still.
The postgame areas are mostly not grind material. Wait till you get to 27F where you can grind Liliths for skill points and can farm Gurthangs from the Black Knights.
Your best place is still 20F since it pays off more.
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Dang, thanks. I'm just getting tired of 20F mobs even tho I can basically 1 shot through nearly every solo mob now with Nitori's Megawatt (and the ones that survive just need a regular attack from Flan to bite the dust).
Went out on a limb and tried to fight 22F guardian, lost the first attempt fairly quickly, but I shuffled my party around (read: added rinno to a part with meiling and rumia as the only healers and meiling, komachi, mystia as the only other tanks) and somehow managed to pull a victory out of my ass with the last third of the battle being Mystia and Rinno in slot 3 and 4 switching in Nitori and Flan as soon as they had the SP to nuke the boss.
Did Baal Avatar next and that fight went so smoothly, I think I only lost one character, and that was with the exact same party. Got the Gurthang drop too, is that 100% or not? Whatever it is, it's delicious for my sweet sweet Flan.
Working on seeing how Kanako fares, and thinking about finally taking Marisa back into my party since I dropped her waayyyyy back in 13F (master spark really doesn't matter all that much in the maingame despite what everyone and the wiki used to always say). Also working on building up Rumia to do kickass damage with Moonlight Ray cos why not.
Not looking forward to the 25F boss though :s
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If you can push Flandre's SPD to be above 700, I think 22F is also a decent grinding ground. It doesn't take much ATK/MAG for her to OHKO everyone with Laevatein.
And if you're honestly afraid of Agastrobrauma, then go kill Maribel V2 and get Renko. Agastrobrauma is a huge joke with Renko in your team.
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Fought Agastrobrauma a couple of times and I think the second time I was decently close to killing him (you never know with this game tho) but Mari v2 completely owned me as soon as she used Overflowing Unnatural Power.
I managed to boost Flan to exactly 700 SPD tho so I'm gonna try out 22F grinding then. Maybe if I get 5-10 more levels I will be golden, I did only just reach Reimu 225 at the time of attempting 25F boss (which is the wiki's minimum recommended level).
25F has become a lot more manageable though, as the only things that really show any resistance are the Earthshakers and the Abyss-less whatevers. But so far paralyzing them and then switching in a magic attacker/physical attacker respectively deals with them just fine. SKP gain, while maybe still not being optimal compared to 20F, feels really really really great too.
Maybe if I'd used Yuugi at all during the main game she'd do a ton more FIR damage to 25F. I stuck Flan's Gurthang on her and she managed like 600-800k so if I pumped up her ATK to at least lvl150 imagine how much that would do.
EDIT: ok pumped a ton of levels into yuugi's ATK and grinded up about 10 levels and now a fully buffed Koi3S is doing damn near 1mil damage. Only problem is, my timing is way out of whack and getting her fully buffed is just as hard as getting her to attack more than once :/
EDIT EDIT: ok fuck this, the boss is too luckshit to cheese with Yuugi being uber-strong. I'm just gonna grind to Reimu 250 while sticking all my SKP into Yuugi's ATK and see what happens then.
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Maribel v2 is even more vulnerable to prior damage than v1 is. With v1 her HP regenerates to 500k per number of enemy units (which includes herself), but in v2 her HP regenerates to 1m per number of minions (which doesn't include herself). If you do enough prior damage to her, she will not be able to live long enough after Overflowing Unnatural Power to be of any threat. A demonstration (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJvgU9TKXIU)
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25F down thanks to a level 222 yuugi with lvl175 ATK doing 800k barely buffed and 1.1mil with a full buff.
EDIT: 26F seems to have much easier to deal with trash (with the exception of hard to kill rainbow insects) than the previous floors and it's got good returns so I'm definitely gonna grind here. Can we also please take a moment to appreciate maze floors cos honestly they're really really nice.
EDIT EDIT: I keep getting wrecked by Shiki oops.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: Shiki down Reimu 270. Went the Meiling tanks Last Judgement route and the battle went sooo much easier. Since my only healers are Reimu and Meiling taking in Komachi was too difficult to get her back to full health in time without her losing it all.
I'm so excited though, I've never made it this far without cheating.
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: Umm, was Kedamagrammaton supposed to be that easy? It felt weird not having to even grind for a boss for once in Plus disk :P Beat it first try with very little issue, and Rankain barely even did half of Meiling's HP every time it hit. How shameful.
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If you know about stuff like being able to debuff it into the floor once it starts charging up Rankain, it's not that hard, yeah. The power of wiki! If Meiling survived it that easily I assume you knew? Then again, if you pumped her hard enough to get the HP for Last Judgment, maybe she just had THAT MUCH HP :V And stuff like MND-build Iku in the other slots lets you realistically just tank through it even at full power.
If you can get through rankain it's not a hard fight iirc. 28F, oof... that's a doozy though. Have fun!
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I mean, to be fair, I was at least level 295 Reimu when I attempted it, but I did attempt it straight after getting all the switches (having a long lasting Kaguya made 27F soooo easy).
Meiling had about 100kHP but a Rankain against a maybe only partially buffed Meiling did like 50-58k. Most other people died from the Rankain (maybe only one other person survived, I think Mystia somehow?). I knew it was SPI element so I pumped some affinity into some chars but I didn't really prepare prepare, you know what I mean?
I knew about debuffing it but I didn't bother cos I also knew about how quickly those debuffs go away due to repeating turns, so every Rankain I combatted I only maybe had buffs for, they were all full power otherwise. People died every turn but Meiling tanked it sooo easily and I managed to keep enough nukers long enough to take it down without too much issue, even though Kaggy died at the first one.
I might go and trigger a Mari v2 rankain and see how that fares against Meiling just for comparison.
EDIT: Mari v2 Rankain does about 30k to Meiling, 13k to Reimu and 3k to Patchy lol.
Tbh I'm really really really tempted to turn Kaguya into a major major OP machine with 27F's skillpoint gain. She's already over 1k speed by now so I should just make her Mystia fast and then 28 F will be no problem at all ;)
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Remember that speed gains fall off really fast past a stat of 1100, and that around 4000 or so, they become more discrete in that unless you're passing a ticks breakpoint, you're getting absolutely nothing. That said, if anything can get Kaguya to that state, it's the sheer volume of Lilith skillpoints.
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Oh, Reimu 295 already? Yeah, you should be fine to cream all the postgame content and bosses up to 30F then. I didn't hit that kind of level for a few more floors.
But being ahead of the grind is probably a good thing since you'll need to hit a good chunk over that level to be capable of 30f grinding once you get there...
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Well i guess my style of play is actually really great for the late plus disk content cos I like to overgrind stupidly by spending skillpoints in ppl to make them super OP for whatever task I need, and all the levels that come from that are just a bonus.
Anyway I'm nearly finished exploring 29F, I basically skipped 28F after getting all the treasures cos that floor is terrible but 29F is honestly such a gooooood floor. Like man I know what 30F is like but this is the best floor in the plus disk and its very fitting for whats coming next.
I mostly just need my Kaggy to be 1500+SPD and then by the time I've gotten her that high she will probably have high enough MAG to one shot every enemy too (with a few obvious exceptions).
I built Aya up after not using her for a majorly long time to help grind on 27F cos the force Spathas dont die to one Hourai Barrage and they're weak to WND but cos she's a lot faster than Kaguya and Kaguya one shots every other enemy I've found it now to be faster to just drop Aya from the front 4 and replace her with someone slower than Kaggy (like Youmu) to clean up after Kaggy kills everything else if it's needed.
After I finish exploring 29F I'm gonna stay a bit on 30F see what i can and can't do (I have a decent idea of who are the easy fights and who I should avoid) but then I'm gonna go back to 27F and ggrind more skillpoints and try and distribute them more evenly into my active party. Thinking bout using the method of dump SKP into their stat until it costs 20k to lvl up and then go to the next stat until everyone is at that level then its a new threshold. Will get everyones affinity up to 200-400 as well in the meantime I think. My Meiling, Mystia and Kaggy already have bomb ass affinities (Kaggy's is at like 795 right now thanks to equipment) so it's just a matter of the others now too.
Also I still need to fight Okuu but I don't wanna think about strategy so I'm just gonna wait until I get another 20 levels or so and beat the crap out of her on a whim. I already tried before but she killed me after a UNR (which is apparently more devastating to Youmu than a Giga Flare???)
EDIT: Reached 30F finally, at Reimu 327
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Great Tetragrammaton's Rankain is much weaker than Kedamagrammaton's undebuffed Rankain, since the former only has 26800 MAG compared to Kedamagrammaton's 32800 MAG. Then again, Maribel v2 is meant to be doable at Reimu 220-230 or so, and at that point 26800 undebuffable Rankain probably OHKOs almost everyone so you're not really spuposed to let it happen (Great Tetragrammaton's defenses drop to 0 while charging, and it may also be really slow depending on how many helpers you killed at that point).
And 29F is pretty bland. 27F has Lilith and its 92k sklil points and 28F has Kedama Goddesses which drop Gold Clothes (it can still be useful even at this point because of the +12 all status resist). 29F drops all suck pretty badly (Holy Blade Sunlight is probably the least useless one amongst them) and its experience isn't really much better than 27F, especially since Flandre with 200k combined ATK and MAG can pretty safely 1HKO everything on 27F with Laevatein, but that's not going to happen on 29F due to Evil Lachesis's 400 FIR resistance and King in Yellow's 1 billion MND.
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Ya but the problem with using flan as my main trash clearer is she's got a super tiny SP pool compared to Kaguya who can last a good 25 battles at the very least right now. On 27F Kaguya can comfortably OHKO everything but the Force Spathas, at which point i can literally just do Youmu's regular attack to finissh them off (cos they have like around 50k left after one Hourai Barrage). So after maybe 10-20 more level ups Kaguya will definitely be able to comfortably OHKO everything without fail.
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Hmm...today I just found two strange things from my LoT2 run. Firstly, It seems that Rinnosuke's and Komachi's money skill will take effect AFTER the battle. Even if you have equipped the skills, the money shown in the battle result screen stays the same so you have to go check the money after the battle to see the increase.
Secondly, Satori's Spell Recollection skill does not directly increase the spell card cost. Therefore, any increased cost will be ignored as long as you have enough MP to use the spell's base cost.
For instance, Komachi's Narrow Confines' spell costs 6 MP and if you have the skill at Level 1, normally the increased cost will be 6 + (6-1) = 11 MP but the game will still says that it is 6 MP. However, the increased cost will take effect after you use the spell so Satori will lose 11 MP. If Satori has 20 MP then she will now have 9 MP, which would normally make her unable to use Narrow Confines the second time due to increased cost. However, since the game will "drain" extra MP AFTER using the spell, Satori can still cast Narrow Confines, ignoring any extra cost provided that she has enough MP for the original cost. So I guess that's an exploit, yes?
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Hmm...today I just found two strange things from my LoT2 run. Firstly, It seems that Rinnosuke's and Komachi's money skill will take effect AFTER the battle. Even if you have equipped the skills, the money shown in the battle result screen stays the same so you have to go check the money after the battle to see the increase.
Actually, it just adds the bonus onto your bonus multipliers- so, for example, you'll see when you have only a battle chain of 1 you'll already have like 15% money bonus instead of 0% or 1% or whatnot.
The Satori one sounds goofy as heck, though XD I'm too lazy to open the game and check it myself.
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I have found more skill glitch today. Even though Satori's Small MP Recovery skill clearly states that in order to recover MP, she must retreat to the RESERVE party. However, she recovers MP anyway when I switch her with another active member.
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I have found more skill glitch today. Even though Satori's Small MP Recovery skill clearly states that in order to recover MP, she must retreat to the RESERVE party. However, she recovers MP anyway when I switch her with another active member.
I didn't even know that you can switch an active member with an active member.
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I didn't even know that you can switch an active member with an active member.
In LoT2 you can, if only for row switching as it won't trigger something like Instant Attack (?)
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While fighting Eientei v3 on 30F I accidentally found out that, if I kill Reisen then drop two debuffs each on Eirin and Kaguya, Kaguya will NOT use Buddah's Stone Bowl. I'm not really strong enough to mess around with the battle to see what that extends to though, but if this holds true in the actual boss battle on 12F, it could make them (even) easier to beat.
EDIT: It seems that Kaguya v3 just has different debuff count for triggering Stone Bowl; I straight dropped a SPD debuff on all three of them and she still attacks normally (Dropping another MAG debuff on all three triggers Stone Bowl though). Oh well.
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Curious about when is the plusdisk for LOT2 is released? Anyone has a clue?
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I thought it would be released in Reitaisai, but then it didn't.
Expect it in Summer Comiket or even Winter Comiket, or worse... next year...
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Curious about when is the plusdisk for LOT2 is released? Anyone has a clue?
All that we know is this:
You shouldn't get your hopes up.
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Well, lol. Seems like patience is the key here.
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For people who were wondering why they can kill Rinnosuke v3's elemental forms: CE reveals that while he starts with 105m HP in his initial and first elemental form and switches after hitting <100m, Form Destruction would set into 1.72m HP instead. I think it might be intentional.
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I have never used yukari in LAB 2, but i understand that her spiriting away now uses up all her MP? so, wouldn't the best build be as many MP recovery on focus items as possible?
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The base cost is so high that I wouldn't really recommend using her based around Spiriting Away. You -can-, though, and have her mostly delegated to the back whilst she recharges... but I don't think the move is worth it. IMO just use her as a tank (or even as an offensive character!) and use Spiriting Away on uncommon occasions. Laby2 isn't as focused entirely around 0% delay nukes as LoT1 was so the move isn't as important either, along with costing every drop of MP she's got; still useful, but I used her as a tank and rarely ever cast it.
If you want regular castings you'll have to look at glassy Aya.
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(http://puu.sh/peCGX/e464e9145b.png)
A ***WINNER*** is me.
This is actually the first time I actually sorta cheated grinded all the way up to fight him. Minoriko 590 is a bit high I guess, but I am using a drafted team rather than an 100% handpicked one. So yay.
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Oh so this is the draft run? Congrats!
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Oh so this is the draft run? Congrats!
It's a different team from the one on page 5. That previous one I only up to Shikieiki because the database's erroneous description of Last Judgement being used every five turns instead of four (which is what's actually true) confused me. But some time ago I made another draft with two other people, and I think this team is a bit harder anyways (no thanks to me being a moron and only raising one physically defensive character)
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(http://puu.sh/plag8/ac73235e47.jpg)
Woah Kogasa what did you do to your MP recovery rate
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uhhhhh? XD Wow. That's one hell of a bug. Or whatever it is.
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It's definitely not a bug I would complain about, if it occurred for me xD
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Ah, that bug exists only in the Plus Disk Trial.
It is still hilarious nonetheless.
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Tatara be surprise!
Is the save from original usable on plus disk ? to decide whether i continue playing while waiting for the expansion
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Is the save from original usable on plus disk ? to decide whether i continue playing while waiting for the expansion
Yep, you can carry over your save from vanilla to Plus Disk, but not the other way around.
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It seems that Keine and Mokou's synergy skills got upgraded. Keine's skill now raises ATK/MAG by 21% per level, and Mokou's skill has a "will protect Keine" effect added to it. (No idea if it's always or a precentage and/or requires other conditions though)
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I got bored of grinding for winner so I started a NG+ file and I set myself a static team consisting of people I haven't really used before for long periods of time.
It is as follows:
Remilia >ATK
Yuugi >ATK
Sanae >MAG (maybe switch to MND/SPD???)
Minoriko >MND
Reisen >MAG
Yukari >MND
Yuuka >MAG
Okuu >MAG
Maribel >MAG
Shiki >ATK
Keine >DEF
Suika >ATK
Halfway through floor 4 by now and this team is shaping up to be surprisingly decent. This is my first time without a full party heal spell actually, and my first time not using Meiling. Still deciding on who I want to tank full time (thinking of going with Yuugi for DEF and Yukari for MND with decent Def and having Remi/Keine as 2nd slot). Never ever used Okuu, Suika, Yuuka or Maribel, but everyone else has been at least slightly fiddled with in the past, enough to have a semi decent idea of their roles and output. Think the only downfall with this is elemental issues. I'm making up for lack of level up bonuses in defensive stats with SKP and it's going okay so far. Luckily a fair few of these chars are bulky enough to deal with less defensive investment. Having no speedster early in the game is a bit annoying though.
Also yeah Sanae AND Minoriko together seems a bit redundant but w/e. I initially had Eirin in there too instead of Yuugi but that would've been overkill and I would've struggled cos she's completely useless otherwise.
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Yuugitank doesn't really work because def-based bosses are almost nonexistent; I can think of one sub-boss in postgame and a couple recruitable characters in maingame where you don't really care (Chen/Youmu are too early, Yuugi's fight doesn't really need a tank), about all the other fights have at least one good magic spell that will take Yuugi down to almost no HP just too often to bother babysitting her... and hoping she doesn't get one-shot by that nonexistent mnd stat. She's amazing end-postgame where you can replace the MND stat with affinities, but that doesn't even remotely work until 30f. Yukari can work, although her def isn't quite enough for first slot imo unless you go all-out and build her for def, I'm used to using her a as a slot-2 tank (in a def build :V)- Keine, Remi, and Yukari in some mix should be able to handle the job, but you might consider dropping Remilia's offensive ability to just have a self-buffing tank. (Only a maybe, though.)
Sanae+Minoriko IS pretty redundant, but I guess they're your only healers after all. I'll tell you now though, MAG build Sanae is gonna be disappointing. She'll do okay damage in random fights and that's about it, and it'll throw her durability out the window.
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True... but I mean she's gonna be very very very useful situationally. I think she's a safe bet to have in first slot for a good portion of the game trash-wise. Most of the time the enemies that move fast are physical attackers. But obviously she's not gonna be a Meiling replacement, or for anyone who has great both defensive stats either. Her HP is really really great for now at least!!
Should I switch to DEF Yukari then? Or focus my efforts on raising either Remi or Keine to 1st slot tank? I've been reading old threads and everyone was saying that Remi gets really disappointing towards the end of the game if you build her defensively, so that's why I went with ATK, but of course I'm open to new opinions.
I want to say that Alice is proving to be a wall but I've only fought her once and that was probably slightly underleveled at that. I got wrecked pretty hard though, Everyone not Yuugi dies to any physical attacks in maybe 2-3 hits and then Yuugi dies really really easily to magic attacks. Having only single target healers is such a crazy thing aaahhh. They aren't fast enough yet to have their speed matter enough :(
Also yeah, I guess I will switch to MND/DEF Sanae actually, I think it's a good idea to have one for each type since until Yuuka gets enough SP to spam reflowering they're my only way of healing people, and even when that happens it's not going to add much more to the table.
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Remi gets really disappointing built defensively because you wouldn't normally want to use her for only tanking, and someone who isn't built for damage is going to have disappointing damage. But you need a good first slot tank, too. Keine and Yukari are great second slot tanks but putting them in first slot full-time is somewhat worrisome. Remi's got the stats for it and a self-buff to keep her topped out on def/mnd, it's just that she's kind of boring of a tank as her damage drops off that way and you'd normally use Meiling or Tenshi or something.
You can go ahead and raise Yuugi defensively but I don't really think you're going to get much out of it :S She already has nearly tank-grade DEF when built for ATK in the first place as far as using her for physical guarding goes (her def/hp are certainly enough for random fights without investment), but magic wiping out almost her entire hp bar makes it a really silly idea to try to actually build her specifically for tanking- immune to physical, but no longer a top-grade nuker and still dies to a single spell. She'll always have awesome HP, but that's the only reason she isn't usually one-shot by magic- in or out of randoms.
Normally I'd say building Sanae for DEF is a waste of time (physical attacks going outside the first two slots is rare in LoT1 and her base def is pretty meh) but since you already have a MND minoriko maybe it's not a bad idea?
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Ok, I guess I can use Remi as a replacement Tenshi/Meiling hybrid and build her defensively from now on.
I wasn't planning on raising Yuugi's DEF with level up bonuses, but rather pooling a ton of SKP into her DEF instead. I already know she's got damn fine DEF growth (not put a single level bonus into her DEF and she's already like 200 points higher than Keine/Yukari/Remi), so I'm just focusing on making that fantastic ATK growth even better. She's one of my only Physical powerhouses on a mostly magic oriented team (and the only physical attacker who can even really take a hit right now) so I'm not planning on sacrificing better output for anything else really.
Also it's decided then, I'm building Sanae for DEF from now on. I guess this counts as an experiment on how useful of a synergy she has with Minoriko when built like this.
Tried Alice again after levelling up more, and I really think I need to increase my DPS too. Healing light is proving to be hard to defeat cos my best attack against it is Last Judgement but that takes basically all of Shiki's EXP. Buffed MAG Utsuho using UNR can do some good numbers against it though. Need to experiment a bit more I guess, hopefully with a couple more levels I won't need to focus so much on keeping my party alive :/
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Remi can be defensive even without pooling level up bonuses to defenses, she really has awesome stats, except MND, which is still great but average.
Don't build Sanae on DEF, she has little DEF to be worth investing. Just pump MND is enough, usually.
The builds are fine, but Yukari can function as a hybrid tank, given her awesome DEF stat, although still quite expensive compared to building MND.
About Minoriko+Sanae, there are ups and downs, like Minoriko is better MND tank and heals much better than Sanae, and buffing defenses, while Sanae could heal statuses and buff all stats. It's a choice really, choose one that is good for the current given situation.
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Beat Alice, all I really needed was a better opening strategy :P Ended up losing both of my healers and luckily pulled through in the end.
I'm not planning on changing the party for the entire game, so I need Remi to fill the first slot tank role. Her defenses have to be absolutely impeccable for that to be viable.
If I go MND Sanae what's she going to be used for over Minoriko? Minoriko can tank magic way better, and can heal way more so if I try to build Sanae the same way she's already outclassed. I'm focusing on Sanae's healing and thinking it would be good to use her for healing in situations where Minoriko would be hazardous to have out. Sanae could probably better pull off an all round bulky healer if I go for a DEF focus anyway, cos I can always dump SKP into her MND to get it more up to scratch. If her bonus effects are to be utilised I think thats her best bet, so she dies to less overall.
I was planning on giving Yukari a MND focus originally, but I'm reconsidering and maybe going 75%DEF>25%MND to make her into a much better all rounder tank.
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Eh, I never had any disappointment towards def remi late game. Sure she doesn't dish out numbers as big as a pure nuke but lot1 isn't lot2, where boss defenses are very significant. Frankly I've built her for atk and def multiple times and I actually prefer the def build because she can eat multiple physical nukes like Iai slash, triple sword, and still actually do good dps (dps not alpha, she's fast too so stuff... plus her good self buff means you can keep her atk buff high without Iku or Ran or someone maintaining it). Her recovery is stupid good too so when you DO switch her out, it doesn't have to be very long before she's ready to go again. I'm not saying DO it, but, if you're thinking about it, don't get the impression everyone says it's bad, because it's not.
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I'm not really sure DEF Yukari would work. On my draft run I found that her DEF is OK but her HP is like Tenshi level low, and that's just not going to cut it because the few physically aligned bosses in the game tend to do enough damage that she can't just expect to take 0s even after buffing.
I would say just stick with Remilia and Keine for your DEF tanking needs. Yukari's much better built as MND-slanted tank for the more magic focused bosses (which far outnumber the physically oriented bosses anyhow).
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The thing is, a party usually has more than enough MND tanks in it's support members, and a MND tank often is relegated to the back slots... which are already in high demand. DEF-build Yukari actually has very nice def (I did it for a full run through WINNER and was quite pleased) and still more than enough MND to easily tank through magic; it lets her take the front slots. Otherwise she'll surely fall to any strong physical and cannot be let into the front slots safely.
Building your levelups into a stat have an incredibly large effect when you're as far as postgame. Zeros? What, nah. She's no Meiling. But she'll survive just fine, and that's what's needed. Not a slot 1 tank, but solidly capable of taking slot 2.
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No matter how much you tweak it, I can't really see Yukari being more physically defensive than Wriggle (she'd get a bit more DEF but her HP plummets, plus she would be much more expensive to maintain SKP wise due to her HP and DEF requiring a lot of it to level). The thing is, majorly physically based bosses tend to have things like Steel Clash or Slash Dive which is just murder on Yukari's poor HP (Tenshi could have an easier time with them but she's got way more DEF), and she can't reduce them with affinities. Baal Avatar is the only boss I know of that uses mostly 2-to-1 attacks but that thing's got so much ATK it demands a lot of HP regardless. Using her to tank those bosses is just forcing someone to do a job they're not really built to do, especially when Remilia, Keine and Yuugi are all on the team. MND based Yukari on the other hand handles first slot on all the magically inclined bosses a lot better; her DEF is still sufficient to cover composites, the more MND piercing attacks are almost always elemental, and very few of them use strong non-elemental physical attacks (only one I can think of is Okuu, and maybe Eiki but that one is so predictable anyways). I definitely don't see Remilia or Keine (or anyone else) handling those bosses better even with heavy MND investment, so this is just much more efficient allocation of resources.
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We're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. IMO MND-based Yukari has to be kept out of the front in too many boss fights (many of which only use occasional physicals and are by no means focused on them, e.g. Maribel v2, but nevertheless you must absolutely deal with their presence; Baal Avatar is honestly like the only physical-based boss fight I can think of that isn't a v2 or earlygame. Great Stamp???) and DEF-Yukari has more flexibility (Wriggle and Keine would edge her out. Some. Not a whole lot. For reference, def Ran edges her out just a bit, based on the WINNER endgame fight. They win in HP but she's usually got enough to take a big physical hit) whilst still having pretty dang high MND... a stat that's significantly less important for tanks postgame anyway where it's almost replaceable by affinity.
Pretty sure you're underestimating the amount of physical attacks bosses have. There's a surprising amount of magic-only bosses but not -that- many.
"Forcing her to tank". Well it's pretty nice to have your def/mnd party buffer to be able to stay out in -all- bosses. Not to mention the ones with all-target physicals, which are uncommon but bothersome... that Needle Parade, augh! (Apart from that I only think of Arrow Rain from Yuuka. Baal Avatar's murders like everyone anyway. Nightmares.)
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Maribel is entirely magic/composite. Amniseri/Martena is the only thing that uses physicals, but that thing's also the one vulnerable to PAR and in any case the only thing threatening about Maribel is her last phase anyways.
MND based Yukari can comfortably slot 1 St Elmo's Fire, Suwako's magic phase, Reisen (physical using minion is easily PAR'd), Eientei (need a Star World Bracelet for Galaxy in a Pot), Evil Forge (no physical), Yuyuko (no physical), Yukari (no physical), Rinnosuke's elemental phases (only Huge Whirlwind and Sealing Slash), Rainbow Phoenix (lol), Great Intellect (no physical), Cosmic (no physical), Maribel (no physical), Bloody Papa (no physical), Hibachi's magic phase (only Ultimate Light Cannon), Celestial Bright Demon (Ultimate Light Cannon and Poison Thrust), Agastobrauma (Plasma Touch), Yuuka (Arrow Rain off 20k ATK), Eiki (Last Judgement but that's easy to work around), and Kedamagrammaton (no physical). It doesn't seem like a huge list, but it includes almost all the bosses that needs to be beaten (in a reasonable timeframe) to progress through the game, so I would still definitely say that she can see her share of the battle. (In fact, if there were anything I learned from the draft run I did, it was how pure MND tanks could actually be so relevant in slot 1. Iku now seems even more broken than I thought she would be before this!)
I do agree that DEF based Yukari could cover more threats more comfortably like Orin, Okuu or Master Light Wings, and be much more relevant for the 30F bosses, while still being pretty decent against what I've brought up. The thing is though, in Zoomy's proposed team Remilia and Keine exists, both of which handles physical and mixed tanking better (mixed tanking tends to require a lot more DEF than MND because of affinties being able to replace MND, so having good HP and DEF is better than having decent DEF and good MND), but there isn't anyone that's better at handling magic/composite based bosses than Yukari (Minoriko could do in a pinch but she'd have much more problem with composite attacks), so she's better off focusing on that area, and let Remilia/Keine handle the others.
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ftr, as it stands now my level 25 Yukari has had about 50/50 MND/DEF investment and she's got around 60 points less MND than pure MND Minoriko(30) and about 100/130 less DEF than PureDEFKeine(28)/ATK/DEFRemi(26) respectively.
Was super worried about Tam's Foe, cos I was fretting about Flowing Hellfire, but when I actually fought it, it turns out I had like 6 party members who could all tank at least one, lol. So I say the fight went pretty easy :)
I swear I've only heard not too great things about Okuu but honestly her MAG growth is fantastic compared to the rest of the party and she is clearing trash without a sweat. Shame she can only do 2 UNR's before she needs to be benched but oh man I'm happy with how she's turning out. Reisen is fairly decent too when things don't resist Magic or MYS, cos Mind Starmine is pretty good and she's at least 4 SPD ahead of my second fastest (Okuu) so she gets them out quick.
Still not sure how to use Maribel or what her strengths are. I guess she's like another variant of Reisen with self buff powers but I'm not too sure how she will end up playing out.
Excited to finally be able to bring out Shiki's Wandering sin for boss debuff help now too cos I was reluctant to use it in case of premature DTH. Shouldn't have too much issue with debuffs considering Reisen and Maribel but she's bringing in status effects to the mix so thats fun.
Suika is kind of meh and I am thinking maybe she just needs a bit more time and investment to start actually standing out. Her multi-target WND spell is kinda blah and Yuugi does basically the exact same thing but much better almost all the time (yes ik Suika's is composite and Yuugi's is just plain ATK). Her nukes haven't seen much use either yet, so I'm left awating for her usefulness to come. The best thing about her right now is that she is a physical attacker on a team that's only 1/3 physical + Keine. Also she's got one of the only two composite attacks on the team.
Not sure how far I'm going to take this I guess, I will see where I'm at by endgame and how motivated I am to continue. I'm already thinking about next playthrough though so I might not stay on this one much longer than Maribel. Maybe I can do another silly not tooooo optimal team and have some fun stuff like Rumia as my main healer (with iku to help her ofc) and Yuuka as backup healer lol.
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Suika's alltarget is super weak against most enemies. It's pretty much just for the powerful alltarget speed debuff. Suika fills the uncommon role of a physical attacker with passable MND, but her damage is sorta meh (Good, but many others can do notably better) if you have ATK buffs for other party members... or amazing if you don't and her self-buff means she's got way more ATK buff than your other members generally do.
Reisen's pretty good versus randoms and Discarder is, of course, pretty nice on bosses. Maribel is... harder to use before postgame because of her SP costs, but at least she has a few lower cost moves; she's got just enough durability to take a non-severe hit and just enough damage to be respectable versus the heavy hitters in the cast, but if you don't value her self-buff, she's not very special at anything other than having a Discarder-like attack in her debuffing barriers. The SP costs are arbitrary and painful for NG+ because the damage is not proportional to the cost, it's just made for postgame's bloated sp values.
Utsuho's fine against randoms, but she just doesn't have any high-power move to use on a boss fight, nor any worthy durability to speak of to make up for it. She's not glassy but she's... definitely not bulky. Her damage isn't -that- bad even on bosses, but it's comparable to using your random battle clearing moves on bosses when you have nukes available.
No one would blame you for stopping at 20F Maribel fight because postgame is a lot of grinding and way less interesting in general :V
Rumia as main healer? I've tried that and, whilst it's -great- in postgame, it really really does not work until... -maybe- with Iku you can do it near the final boss of maingame, sorta. Before then she just heals for piddly nothing, even with buffs. She's a super solid party member postgame for a mix of Second Healer and having nuke-grade damage output, but realllly questionable until then with how many enemies resist MYS.
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Yeah I think I'm going to stop after doing the bloodstained seals +V2 bosses cos I think thats a good place to leave it.
Utsuho is doing a significant amount of damage against bosses right now, she just can't do much cos she's got only 2 uses of her cheapest attack before she's out for the count. Her durability is quite good right now too without needing much investment in defenses (she tanks Flowing Hellfire like a pro but then she's got the best FIR affinity lol). Maybe that will fall off as I go through the game, but ya she's quite fantastic for now.
I think it might be worth it significantly bulking up some of my attackers anyway. Especially when speeds are so low in general that I can't fast switch too easily.
Maribel's durability is kind of crap right now, and I know thats cos she's got a selfbuff and having her with good defenses already would make her really OP towards the end of the game. But yeah she's not too great right now and I think thats a bit of a shame. Her damage is alright I guess, Liberated Abilities helps enough with trash, and her usefulness on bosses is basically debuff centric for now. I guess my opinion is still pending overall, but it's not looking so great for her right now!!
Also Rumia as healer probably wouldn't affect me negatively too much. I found that the last regular run I played I managed to make it all the way to Rinno without issue with any boss. Healing wasn't particularly needed until him so if she starts to put up good numbers towards endgame. with an Iku buff on her I should be alright. It's also an incentive to build on her MAG fairly intensively so maybe she will prove useful earlier.
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If you do use Rumia maingame, you definitely have incentive to -heavily- tweak her MAG; when I tried to use her I got to like 16f at least, and if you really go for it she can wreck the massively tanky enemies with Dark Side of the Moon; it helps that she's slow so you could, say, have Iku buff her offenses before she moves. (Iku herself is slow, so it's an awkward tactic on most characters, but it makes Iku great in randoms instead of useless. This is one of Keine's main upsides over Iku; she's fast and can buff your team before they attack)
But when you say "good numbers" for healing I mean more like "barely passable as not a waste of time" numbers. *coughs* She really doesn't come into her light until your levels literally double between 20f and 21f as you enter postgame. MAG grows faster than HP and the bloating numbers really makes it apparent. Even in postgame she needs a good MAG buff to heal well but she does it quite well at that point.
I think the reason your stats are the way they are is because earlygame, there's not as much time for the EXP scaling to come into effect. Maribel levels fast and Utsuho levels very slow, and that might not be noticable until much later in the game. (Maribel isn't particularly durable even then, TBH, she's just not anywhere at the point of glassiness.)
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Something that both Reisen and Maribel have for them is that them buffing their own speed also means that they recover SP faster in the back, which especially helps Mari cope with the unreasonable SP costs of her spells (at least in boss battles).
Okuu DOES have pretty decent defenses; her base DEF is actually only slightly behind Yukari's and is cheaper to raise via SKP (although I'm sure no one in their right mind would waste any level-up points in it) and her MND is pretty respectable too. The problem is that her HP is even more terrible than Yukari's, which means that while she can tank a light hit or two without much trouble, heavy hits will still destroy her. (The distribution kind of makes sense to make UNR's self-debuff actually matter a little, unlike Kimontoku's debuff aspect). And yeah her decent damages don't stay long for that way, every boss between 10F and 16F have either a lot of MND, decent FIR resistance, or is lol Hill Gigas. By the time bosses which she can actually hit for decent damage shows up again, the faster levelling character have long since caught up to the curve, and Okuu turns into some sort of liaison between Alice and Orin in terms of stats, while her affinities are still iffy with three weak points and her TP, Rec% and Resistances are all really bad. Giga Flare is servicable when you need a defense ignoring attack and I guess can clean house on 24F mobs, but is otherwise terrible and not worth using. So yeah; enjoy using her while she's actually pretty good I guess; she'll turn into dead weight for a while and though that will eventually come to pass she probably won't impress you nearly as much any more.
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So I'm up to Eintei fight now, gave it a shot and lost.
I've realised that I could maybe boost Remi's MND a little bit, as well as Suika's, and they shoudl take consistent 0's when buffed. Minoriko and Yukari are perfectly fine to tank magic attacks without heavy buffs. But other than that, survivability isn't a terribly big issue.
What is fucking me over, however, is the fact that my team is so majorly magic based, so my overall damage is way lower than it needs to be. I ran out of SP for most of my attackers before I could even kill Reisen. I also have no PAR causing multi target that has no debuffs (cos I got Yukari's MoLaD and I have Wandering Sin from Shiki), and the only single target PAR I have is from Yuugi (who absolutely cannot be out at all for long periods of time in this fight).
Reisen's multi targets are MYS which can't kill boss-Reisen too easily. Mari's only non MYS non debuffing non ST attack is a row attack so she's not gonna do shit against Reisen compared to the other two. Yuuka does like no damage ever (when does she start being good?) Suika's multitarget comes with debuffs.
Its like this is possibly the worst team for this battle. Oops. I think my safest bet is to just build at least 4 of my chars for easy 0's and pray that I can somehow win through surviving everything over damage rushing.
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Alright I've been seeing this thread enough and decided I'll finally play the game. Does it matter if I skip Labyrinth 1 and go straight to 2? Is there any story I'll miss? Any gameplay elements that make one a better game than the other?
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Yuuka's main attack is Flower Shot. It's value is that it has a low delay, so you can get a lot of casts in.
But yeah, I can definitely see why you've got a bad team for Eientei. In a normal game, you're incredibly likely to still have tons of awesome characters for the battle in your party just because you haven't had a lot of time to try to replace them yet. Many of your attackers also do have very high skill costs...
At least Maribel's got a cheaper single target skill you can use on Reisen that hits her SPI weakness? I'm not sure if it causes so many buffs that you get countered purely off that though... I don't remember the exact conditions. (Whether it's how many individual debuffs or how many of the Eientei members are debuffed)
Sen:You can skip to Laby2, sure; this is Touhou so you're not going to be lost in terms of plot. It's certainly more polished, but Laby1 still has some upsides against it, so it's not as though Laby1 is entirely bad... just a simpler game.
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Yeah I literally just beat them. Somehow managed to avoid a Hourai Barrage from Kaguya cos I killed Eirin right before Kaguya was about to take her turn. I needed to grind a few more levels though (was only Remi 44/45 when I first got to the fight, so I grinded to Remi 48).
Mari's single target debuffer hit Reisen for 4 debuffs (only used it cos she had focused and was near death) but Kaguya took her turn before Reisen died, so Idk why she didn't buddha bowl me. The wiki (and experience) tells me that it requires 3 debuffs to be used on any/all boss party members. Weird, but I'm not complaining.
I think my main issue with Yuuka actually is that she was both underlevelled SKP wise, and that she was so fkn slow that she was irrelevant in randoms. I pumped her up to the rest of the levels of everyone else and she did amazing damage against Eientei. She's still rather slow though :P
Anyway, onto 13F. I am dreading how long this floor is gonna take. On my last run I wrote a list for all the combinations I need to hit every single warp point in order but I don't have that list on me right now. Might level a bit there until I can reobtain it.
EDIT:Finished 13F last night, but oh my god 14F and 15F are a painnnnnnn. Might just grind a bit on 15F cos they seem more suitable to a varied party than 14F. I don't have enough physical firepower to easily take care of Manifested Knowledges if they appear in groups of 2 even. Ugh. Nothing kills trash easily anymore and it's the worst. This isn't even like a level up a few times and you're good situation like it is with a normal playthrough with a decent party. It's torture, I swear.
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Strange. I always find 14 and 15 to be a breath of fresh air after 13f and those effing super frequent sword fish who can 1 or 2 shot anyone who isnt a hp komachi or something. Maybe they can with her too though. Dunno.
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13F wasn't that bad at all. Swordfish very very rarely double slashed a party member after the first slot (basically everyone could take two at least) and Slash Dive only killed Remi on like one of the early trips, just had to pump a bit more into HP and she was golden. 13F was no biggie. 14F was rlly frustrating though cos my physical firepower is not up to par with what it would be on a normal run. Manifested Knowledges are only easily killed with a team of 3 physical attackers + Remi (who i'm not counting cos she doesnt have multi target). So, Keine, Suika and Yuugi. Thats basically my entire physical output except Shiki in one party. SP drains fast.
I take back my negative words about Yuuka, she's fantastic. Beauty of Nature is fantastic. BoN can easily kill Blackenmels, BoN can severely damage Manifested Knowledges. BoN is basically the best magic spell I have against high MND enemies (yes it's even better than MND ignoring Giga Flare).
Blackenmels are only killable via Nukes and BoN basically. So yeah BoN fucking owns.
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IIRC Minoriko can kill Blackenmels with Falling Leaves of Madness pretty easily, although only one at a time obviously.
Also a nice thing about Blackenmels is that they seem to only cast Silent Cloud and Purple Paralysis Cloud when they're not alone, so if you run into a pair you can just leave them there and sit on the spot to recharge your team's SP.
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I wonder which subclass would be best for Eiki, so far I'm thinking Transcendent?
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Transcendant or Gambler. She's a durable nuker so you can enhance that with trans, but at the same time, her nuke is so slow she's also well suited for gambling.
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So, I have been thinking about the skill Efficient Concentration of the Guardian subclass. I wonder if it would be effective to give it to non-tanks, specifically, the ones that use a lot of MP, or focuses on regenerating MP. So, here is my idea of non-tanks who I think can take advantage of the skill.
Marisa: She can quickly regains MP by concentrating for Master Spark if you also gives her a lot of MP Recovery items.
Youmu: At least, it makes her turn comes faster.
Nitori: The same reason as Marisa. However, unlike Marisa, with Maintenance, she is in a little risk of being one-shotted.
Aya: When Diva subclass is not yet available at least.
Hina: If you make Hina a Hexer, her Debuff resistance is raised to 40, which makes her a little harder to self-debuff with Bioryrthm so I think this is the alternative for her to gain MP faster.
Ran: She can quickly and continuously (or even endlessly) buffs your whole characters provided that she takes zero damage from every attack so that Cooling Down can activate. Also, with Expansion of Conciousness, she can gain a large amount of MP in a short time.
Yukari: Same reason as Marisa, especially with her Phenomenal Force of Will skill.
However, the biggest problem with this subclass is that enemies will also have a higher chance of targeting that character since its the subclass innate skill. I don't know if we can nullify that by having 2 Guardians on the field so I think it is best used on bulky supporters.
What do you think?
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The issue with Efficient Concentration is you don't often want to have people sit out concentrating... unless they're a tank, in which case several of them are in more need of useful active skills to use than the guardian's passives- which, admittedly, ARE pretty nice, but few of the tanks have the innate skill variety to actually have enough to do. If you have Marisa sit out doing it she's liable to get her face punched in, and the concentration isn't -that- fast to try to chainspark; you may as well just cast magic missile if she's out and getting turns, you'll do more damage. Yukari can take the hits but making her concentrate faster still isn't going to make Spiriting Away something you're actively trying to use multiple times.
Nitori's Cooling Down (which works regardless of hp, no matter what it says in the description) and Maintennance let her get insane amounts of MP back from just one concentrate, so she doesn't really need it... apart from the fact that she REALLY, REALLY wants transcendant. Low base stats+maintennance=passable stats, make them less low with Transcendant and she gets a helluva lot of boost out of it. The other classes simply are not worth the huge stat loss.
Hina doesn't really have any MP problems to start with in my experience, but maybe we use her differently. Granted, actually, I think I just buff Hina with Byakuren and ignore the debuff synergy anyway... that might change in Plus when Byakuren gets a heavy nerf.
Ran is the best point here since she's durable support and would love to spam her buffs as often as physically possible, so she actually doesn't need a different subclass and could get some real use out of it, along with the fact that her concentrate gets beefy as hell so it's worth using. Apart from this, the other people who are well-interested in the sub are people with Grand Incantation... as they can reap both offensive benefits -and- some nice passives. Or, in a different line of thinking, people with Sheer Force who might want to use the SHK-inflicting skill, a viable strat against many bosses, and you can build 'em as a passable tank to make use of other guardian stuff.
Also, I'm not sure Guardian actually has any "higher chance of being hit" thing. The class description says it possesses skills that provoke enemies, but none of it's skills say anything about that. It feels like a typical 3peso "The end result was different than the original concept, but we never changed the description". That thing seems to happen a lot in the ThLaby series.
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Renko in either tank or non-tank role is by far the best user of the skill, since it doubles as her heal move as well, and she does eat up MP like crazy. Though to be honest, Renko is spoiled for choice when it comes to subclasses, so Guardian tends to get a bit overlooked.
Otherwise, it synergizes well with Mari too, letting her use Grand Incantation/Rapid Charge more efficiently, but at the cost of elemental variety with other subclasses. Patchy may be a decent option if you're willing to keep her out that long.
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Alright I've been seeing this thread enough and decided I'll finally play the game. Does it matter if I skip Labyrinth 1 and go straight to 2? Is there any story I'll miss? Any gameplay elements that make one a better game than the other?
Story-wise, you can start with either one. After playing both, I feel like LoT2 is more polished, but I still enjoyed LoT1 more for whatever reason. There were so many boss battles in LoT1 where I won by a single turn (ie, one person left standing with nothing to do but attack), so the battles felt super balanced, at least for my play style. Mechanics-wise, the games are very similar, with LoT2 throwing a job system into the mix. Anyway, both games are very much worth playing, you'd be robbing yourself of fun by skipping either one.
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So since I'm nearing the end of my current run I am already thinking about next game's team.
So far I've got Rumia, Iku, Yuyuko, Mokou, Wriggle as people I definitely want. I might put Yukari in to serve as an offtank and try out a slot 1 Wriggle (lol). Might put Orin in there cos I need physical attackers, and Sakuya too. Could also do Cirno, since I never use her past like floor 7. Maybe Alice too. I want Aya cos not having a super speed attacker this playthrough is annoying, and Chen's too OP so Aya it is. And Ran, I think.
So Rumia, Iku, Yuyuko, Mokou, Wriggle, Yukari, Orin, Sakuya, Cirno, Alice, Aya, Ran.
Sounds good? It can work I think. Rumia as the only healer is kind of the gimmick, but the rest of the team seems surprisingly well balanced, actually, if a little on the low damage side maybe.
I want to use Renko sometime but I hear she breaks the maingame, so I probably won't.
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Hey is there a way to make the game full screen?
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So, I have been replaying the main game of LoT2 using Plus Disk Trial data. So far, I have found some bugs:
-Kasen's joining event will repeat infinitely, forcing you to use the normal version instead.
-Whenever an enemy uses an Escape command, the game automatically crashes. I have seen this twice on 6F Tenshi and Alluvial Kedama.
And also, one of the FOEs' behavior has changed a bit. The Giant Tree now regenerates 3040 HP each turn.
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Chen's too OP so Aya it is.
Wait... Chen is more OP than Aya? How?
Edit: Ohhh you meant in the original. That makes a LOT more sense.
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So since I'm nearing the end of my current run I am already thinking about next game's team.
Which game are you talking about tho. It's kind of important, since, for example, trying to play through with that team in LoT1 I think you're gonna have... a problematic time XD About half the team members are either late bloomers (as in POSTGAME late, like Yuyuko, Rumia) or a little so-so overall (Sakuya, Mokou, Aya until postgame imo) and your party's main tanks are... Wriggle, Yukari, and Ran?? And no, Rumia's healing seriously does not work until postgame, so you effectively don't have a healer.
On the other hand for LoT2 you could be solid, but somehow I think you mean LoT1.
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I'm always talking about 1. I'm not gonna bother with 2 until full plus disk release I think.
It's not intended to be the easiest thing but I think considering I have a decent selection of each role except healer it should prove to be okay with some extra challenge at least. I didn't want to have people who are OP. In my current run I'm using kind of middling characters/plus disk high SP cost chars too and I'm still relatively okay cos I have decently durable people for both magic and physical attacks, decently powered attacks, a good healer and good buffers. This next run is kind of the same idea without the fantastic healers. The only thing kind of bad about my current team is that I've got so much Magic and not enough physical and it's making mid-end-game kind of a tough time. This new team's worst asset is a bad healer, everything else is okay I think, and at worst it's maybe slightly worse than what I have now (which has done me well up until 16F lol).
I just need to think about builds better, because I really need to narrow down how I'm going to build the people who can do both (Sakuya/Ran) I think instead of Ran as a main tank I can build her MAG focused and substitute her tanking role for defensive Alice (who i've done before and is fantastic for maingame imo. One nice benefit of a set party run is its easier to build chars with SKP cos you can both focus on what you want better and spend the skillpoints over less people.
Basically I just want to remove as much OP-ness as I can without resorting to using Eirin lol.
Maingame LoT1 isn't that hard anyway, when you've done it enough times. It's nothing a few levels can't really fix until the very late game. Plus disk is another matter, cos between Mari and the huge level gap to the bonus floors things start to go wrong if you built wrongly and grinding can become more and more needed.
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Hey is there a way to make the game full screen?
The original yes, but for the sequel no, however you can stretch the screen. If that's not good enough then you just gotta :dealwithit:
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Yukari was super easy to beat which is surprising considering I'm still struggling to reliably beat the 16F encounters.
Dreading 18F oh dear.
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Dreading 18F oh dear.
I've just recently beaten 18F, and oh boy, do not look forward to the boss :ohdear:
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Ya i'm not sure how well my team will deal with this. They are not optimal defensive team nor are they optimal offensive. 18F trash is a pain and 17F trash is a pain and 16F trash is a pain so levels will be slow for now. My team is not a good trash team cos of high SP costs on their powerful moves, which they now have to use almost constantly cos things can take a beating. Rinnosuke can probably destroy me as well, considering I don't particularly have great elemental nukage and my chars overall are only slightly bulky by now. Might pool some SKP and grind a ton for defense boosting but idk. shit will be hard. At least after that 20F will probably be not horrible to grind on so I can zippy zoom my way through the levels.
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Wait, I didn't realize you were talking about the first game, oops xD
I wish I could get the first game to work though, the screen just stays white in in the opening cutscene ;-;
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I'm not really sure how you're supposed to beat the maingame with literally no healer, but, if you think you'll be fine I guess!
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Yeah 16F suck. I'm also on a playthrough myself with Reimu, Patchy, Wriggle, Yuugi, Aya, Iku, Reisen, Mokou, Yuyuko, Rinnosuke, Mystia and Eiki. I don't even have an envisioned approach to 16F mobs :V Especially those Mangadoroas with 56k HP and 188 SPD. (I mean sure I could take out a couple of encounters without any problems, but I have no idea how I can sustain.)
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I'm not really sure how you're supposed to beat the maingame with literally no healer, but, if you think you'll be fine I guess!
I'm not talking about that team, I'm still on my first team lol. That team is for after this run. This is just people I've basically never used before, and I happen to have kind of mediocre people and plus disk people (5 people from plus disk oops, and none of them are mystia, rip).
Using Remi, Keine, Yuugi, Shiki, Yuuka, Yukari, Suika, Minoriko, Sanae, Mari, Reisen and Okuu. And, yeah, my best (read: only) source of multi-target fire damage right now is Okuu and that is making 18F hellish despite the FIR weakness :(
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(http://imgur.com/krFxYC7.png)
More Plus Disk Trial run. Nothing really changes from the original version so far. I just beat Yukari with literally no efforts whatsoever. I didn't even switch out any other members at all.
And some bosses that I have fought:
Magatama: Even with the Library points of 20-30, the fight is still fair and fun if you have strong buffers and debuffers, Kasen and Aya. Otherwise, it is absolute hell, nuff said. I think the developer favors Kasen a little too much. She is the only character who can easily deal 20k to the Magatama, which is necessary considering its high HP and Speed buff. That's why she features in almost every video of that fight.
Tenshi 12F: I beat her without exploiting her AI. The fight is just a matters of degrading her buffs to around 20% and then inflict heavy or silence on her, you can easily dealt 10k with max buffed.
Yuyuko: Hina works really well with Aya, she gets to debuff Yuyuko twice before her first turn thus greatly reduces damage from Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana. Also, Alice is a freaking godsend. With Malice Cannon and max buffs, she can easily dealt 60k-80k with Artful Sacrifice.
Yukari: Yuugi dealt 80k - 100k with max buffed Supernatural Phenomenon on fully debuffed Yukari, trivializing the fight. Hina is too OP, lol.
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Well LoT1 throws certain enemies at you in certain areas of each floor, this is made particularly obvious on 10-12f as you frequently as @%@#% find eyes of twilights in certain areas of 11f, and seemingly never in other areas of the same floor. This is not simply because of the unique nature of how you explore certain segements between the 3 floors in a certain order. Other floors feature this too, but aren't made so obvious by the staircase locations between them.
My point is I find 16f trash to be not too terribly bad, and I suspect because I explore in a different order. I go bottom left, bottom right, top right, top left (for the unlock thingies). This makes it so I kinda level up along with the trash making them never too outrageous. If you try a different order, try mine and maybe that'll help.
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Eh, when I actually started exploring 16F I found it to be easier than it seemed. Mandragora spend all their turns flinging powders off 1k ATK (so Patchy's the only one who actually takes damage, and then about 200 at that), so I can just outfit a few people for status immunity and turn them into SP regenerators, which helps Mystia/Aya/Rinnosuke's SP topped off for dealing with other things. The other monsters arne't so bad as long as I still have SP. The floor's design is really evil though, and trying to get anywhere tends to involve huge walks; not fun when I only have a few people capable of dealing with the monsters.
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(http://imgur.com/ZJ0cvkK.png)
More Plus Disk Trial bug shenanigan. On 17F, Those Staring From the Gap is normally Level 68, but for some reason, this one (from Plus Disk dungeon) spawns instead.
What is this I don't even...I hope that these bugs will eventually be fixed in the full game.
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More Plus Disk Trial bug shenanigan. On 17F, Those Staring From the Gap is normally Level 68, but for some reason, this one (from Plus Disk dungeon) spawns instead.
What is this I don't even...I hope that these bugs will eventually be fixed in the full game.
Wait, do they actually have the stats of the plus disks ones or is it just the display? If it's the former thank god you have a speedster like Aya so you can escape.
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Wait, do they actually have the stats of the plus disks ones or is it just the display? If it's the former thank god you have a speedster like Aya so you can escape.
Nope, they all have the stats of the plus disk and they are ridiculously fast! They each attack like 3-4 times before I get a turn. If you don't have Aya with her instant turn skill, you will probably die unless, of course, the team is built around evasion so most of the attacks miss.
Beating them is not worth the exp or money gained either.
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Exploring the seventeenth floor sounds extremely hellish. I imagine making progress must take awhile their now.
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Finally ended up getting to Rinno at Minoriko 89 (she's my highest) and tried, and promptly got massacred...
Yeah I think I'm gonna grind up to at least Yukari 90 before I try this (she only just hit level 80).
Nobody was really able to survive the first form in the slightest, buffs didn't help too much either. I'm really really worried about how this throw down is gonna go down, especially because on top of having second rate tanks I also have second rate magic damage dealers (my physical attackers except Remi all have relatively great nukes thank god) so Idk how easy it will be for me to power through things.
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Rinnosuke's attacks aren't super strong (for a proper team at least) so if you just overlevel you'll be fine. And on the final boss, it's very easy to overlevel as much as you could possibly dream of (20f enemies are what people use to grind up until postgame, after all), so as long as you can beat Rinnosuke you should be home clear.
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Yeah that's whats keeping me going. I'm just waiting for the sweet sweet 20F grind to infinity. Even without WSMR I think I'll be okay initially even if I skip 19F entirely until I gain a ton of levels.
I'm not toooo worried about Mari anyway cos my team seems to be fairly good on the MND tankiness (Yukari/Minoriko/Suika and even Remi has a huge amount of MND, just to name a few).
I just hope I don't have to overlevel to like Yukari 90 cos that's gonna take a lot more time than I'm prepared to do right now.
I will just keep chipping away though... if I do a little bit at a time eventually I will get there. At least by now Utsuho can finally OHKO every non Guardian/Peta-Grain with a buffed Tokamak.
I guess I'm just having a bit of trouble deciding where to allocate my skillpoints right now. I'm thinking of just going hardcore defensive so my team will withstand his attacks better earlier, instead of spreading around like usual.
This will be soooo much better with my next team, I swear. It has much better trash clearers for the maingame.
EDIT:omgomgomgomgomg I tried after maybe 5 more level ups and I won.
Just managed to make it past his first phase (5 levels really made a heckton of a difference), his elemental forms were a relative breeze. Then I got into his final form, and I would not have won had I not been so lucky to have 3 SoHD's cast in a row before he actually used WSMR. After that buff he only had about <50k HP left so I attacked him with a few chars, then he used a SoHD and killed everyone but Remi, I swapped in Suika as a last ditch effort (was just her and Remi left) and managed to kill him with a Gungnir. oh man I'm soooooo happy I don't have to grind more on 18F. 20F grinds here I come.
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Congrats! Rinno's first form really is the worst.
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High God Magatama and Mirror beaten. Man, Yuugi's Supernatural Phenomenon wrecks just about anything weak to Nature. I dealt 100k to the Mirror per hit. rendering the fight a joke. I'm surprised that Yuugi's Supernatural Phenomenon is way more overpowered than Knockout in Three Steps.
Yuugi is not useless against random encounter either. With a combo of Supernatural Phenomenon and Beat Down, she will never run out of MP thus Yuugi has become one of my favorite single-target sweeper of all time. It is glorious.
I have also tried using attacker Aya with a Magician subclass and it is definitely worth it. The problem with attacker Aya is that at first, she has very limited MP and limited skill points to invest in all of her key skills (Gensokyo's Fastest Lessons, Extra Steps, and the first two skill of Magician subclass.) However, at around Darkness-stratum, she has enough points to invest in all of them.
Aya can finish off away low-HP, heavily damaged enemies or use Peerless Wind God to get rid of tough and fast enemies, making some random encounters easier and still have enough MP to keep going due to her high speed and thus gaining MP very fast.
Monk Iku steamrolls every random encounters up to the fire stratum where beyond that point most enemies heavily resists Mystic or are way too fast. At least, her Wind spells are effective on Darkness-stratum.
Healer Momiji with full ATK build saves my party more times than I can remember. With Instant Attack, she can pretty much do anything; attack, tank or heal.
P.S. Some random things I have found:
-Sky Fairy's AI is now corrected. It can now use Deranging Aroma and Dangerous scent in addition to Calming Scent and Black Universe.
-It looks like Wriggle's Poison Touch activates even if she is hit with a magical attack.
-Massive Twilight Magicannon now concentrates only once before unleashing its nuke but it still never uses Attack command.
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Healer Momiji is legitimately pretty neat, whether as a tank build or healing. I used Iku as a Sorceror moreso for single-target murder rampage, but Monk isn't a half bad idea either... for awhile. Just swap from Monk to Sorceror if it got too underwhelming. That normal attack even kicks butt on many boss fights, it's so fast!
Does Wriggle's Poison Touch still reset her timebar to 7000 each time? It was too annoying to use before because her turns would keep getting shoved back...
Probably a good change on Twilight Magicannon. Even as soon as you get to that floor, before any grinding happens, you should be able to take it out before it can concentrate twice AND get another turn...
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Doesn't the skill passive Grand Incantation do more than just increase damage? I remember in the past when I had Reimu with Grand Incantation, when I used focus then used her heal the power of the heal would increase... Am I just mis-remembering?
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Does Wriggle's Poison Touch still reset her timebar to 7000 each time? It was too annoying to use before because her turns would keep getting shoved back...
I have tested this with all characters with a counter-skill in the game on Plus Disk Trial: Wriggle, Iku, Yuugi and Komachi. Only Iku's Magic Counter puts her ATB at 7000. Other skills do not affect their timebar.
Honestly, those counter skills, except Komachi's might be bugged or something because they seems to be picky what is physical/magic or not. Most of the time, they won't activate even if they are attacked with the right attack. For example,
Daze/Crimson Lotus Fang: Single-target Fire Attack; Neither Wriggle's nor Yuugi's skill activates.
Spark Storm: Multi-target Fire Spell; Neither Wriggle's nor Iku's skill activates.
Magical Light: Single-target Mystic Spell; Both Wriggle's and Iku's skill activates.
Storm of Particle Light; Multi-target Spirit Spell: Both Wriggle's and Iku's skill activates. I don't know why this activates. It is just a Spirit version of Spark Storm.
But the strangest thing of all is...
Attack (by Puppet Top); Both Wriggle's and Yuugi's skill activates.
Attack (by 1F Kedama); Neither Wriggle's nor Yuugi's skill activates....WTF!!!???
Doesn't the skill passive Grand Incantation do more than just increase damage? I remember in the past when I had Reimu with Grand Incantation, when I used focus then used her heal the power of the heal would increase... Am I just mis-remembering?
It still does. With Grand Incantation, Reimu's damage and healing is three times stronger.
P.S. I have found that in addition to its power increase, Yukari's Yakumo Ran + spell also lowers its delay by 500 for each if Ran/Chen is in the backline and by 1000 for each if they are on the front line.
So, If both are on the field, her ATB is set to 7500.
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Grand Incantation can help Maribel hit half-decent healing numbers with her DIY Novice Barrier. She's such a jack of trades that she really needs sub-healer tier capability to be worth a damn, unfortunately, and it's questionable whether she's actually there yet. Worst of all is that her synergy with Renko DOES. NOT. WORK. If they fix that she should get a lot better, it's a hefty stat boost and Renko's stats get godlike for tanking with if you build her that way (and why wouldn't you?)
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And it's a pity that Youmu isn't getting a variation of Grand Incantation for her skill set, because as noted before, that would solve her damage dealing issues pretty well.
Personally, I would throw in Sheer Force and Piercing Attack on Youmu as well, just so said output would be more reliable. But maybe all of that would be too much?
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Grand Incantation alone would make Youmu amazing, there's no need to overdo things :V
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True enough. Youmu really only needs that one skill.
By the by, would Grand Incantation be a good idea for Sanae, at least for those who want to use her offensively?
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LoT2: So I just got Yukari, gave her the usual 40 points in magic, some magic boosting items, pumped her mag up with level up and...
She's doing absolutely no damage ??? Am I missing something about her? Floor 16, level 60s, and she's doing absolutely nothing to anything (in comparison to Sanae's Night of Bright Guest Stars, which is doing like 11k)
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LoT2: So I just got Yukari, gave her the usual 40 points in magic, some magic boosting items, pumped her mag up with level up and...
She's doing absolutely no damage ??? Am I missing something about her? Floor 16, level 60s, and she's doing absolutely nothing to anything (in comparison to Sanae's Night of Bright Guest Stars, which is doing like 11k)
Yukari's formulas may be better but her multipliers are lower than Night of Bright Guest Stars. I assume that's why.
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LoT2: So I just got Yukari, gave her the usual 40 points in magic, some magic boosting items, pumped her mag up with level up and...
She's doing absolutely no damage ??? Am I missing something about her? Floor 16, level 60s, and she's doing absolutely nothing to anything (in comparison to Sanae's Night of Bright Guest Stars, which is doing like 11k)
First off, by points, you mean library levels? Because your characters in general should be given more than that in their main stats.
Second, Sanae's spell is far more powerful due to it's formula(Sanae: 242 MAG - 100 T.MND vs. Yukari: 144 MAG - 60 T.MND) and Sanae's Power of the Living God passive(presuming that you have it fully activated), which strengthens Spirit attacks, including Night of Bright Guest Stars.
If anything, Yukari's best offensive spell is actually Hyperactive Flying Object, a Wind spell that attacks a row of enemies with a formula of 240% MAG - 50% T.MND(and since it's a row targeting spell, it can be strengthened by the Sorcerer's Row Attack Strengthening skill), so Yukari's not exactly the best choice for dealing with the floor trash of the Darkness stratum.
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Yeah, Mesh of Light and Darkness isn't very strong. Hyperactive Flying Object, on the other hand, is great (especially with Sorc Row Strengthening as noted), and Shikigami + turns into a wrecking ball if you have the whole family.
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Ah yeah, library levels, sorry. So Hyperactive Flying Object is the one I need to use for her, got it, thanks!
...Then again maybe I need to take a look at how I'm assigning equipment and stats overall because some people are falling a bit (or a lot) behind damage wise.
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As a rule of thumb, you should keep a character's library levels(save for their dump stat, if any) equal to their level at minimum and raise it further from there. Also, if any of a character's natural elemental affinities(this would be without equipment) are at 84 and up, but below 100, you should boost those until they hit 100. It helps more than one might think.
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Boosting affinities is easy in LoT1 but in LoT2 not quite as much... which is fair, considering how insane boosting affinities got in postgame lot1.
I wouldn't worry about them much, although of course you wouldn't want to ignore it.
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So Rumia, Iku, Yuyuko, Mokou, Wriggle, Yukari, Orin, Sakuya, Cirno, Alice, Aya, Ran.
Sounds good? It can work I think. Rumia as the only healer is kind of the gimmick, but the rest of the team seems surprisingly well balanced, actually, if a little on the low damage side maybe
So I'm working on this team now, Currently half done with 4F.
Realising now this team has no status curing, so difficulties will be had early game (especially considering my only usable offensive buff right now is Iku). But what is getting me more is the fact that I only just realised the only Physical nukes I have are Orin's Needle Hill (but is that really much of a nuke?) and Return Inanimateness.
Not sure how I shoudl build Sakuya long term, I've kind of been spreading out a bit with a focus on DEF but I know I need to build her pure to be effective. Problem is, is Killing Doll worth it as a nuke (after Iku buffs of course) to justify her being ATK built? I'm thinking I might have to else I am lacking in physical firepower. I seem to have enough durability elsewhere right now (trying to use Wriggle as main tank and have DEF Yukari and MAG build Ran with currently excellent stats for backup. MAG Alice should be a decentish tank too as well as Iku for MND), but at the same time I am not sure if an ATK Sakuya is actually worth it. Idk I need advice.
I'm really reallly happy with this team's trash clearing abilities though. It's all better than last team so far and its basically alll much cheaper too (likely cos I have zero +disk chars this time around). I'm probably going to run into issues again after 13F cos of lack of good physical firepower other than Orin and Little Legion, however. I'm building Cirno for SPD for trash help cos she's otherwise useless after earlygame. Alice and Ran are having a pure MAG build this time around cos last time I used them both I built them defensively and they were fantastic maingame tanks but with a MAG focus they shoudl still be fairly bulky and good but also fantastic for trash clearing (and I really need Little Legion in this playthough lets be honest here).
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Problem is, is Killing Doll worth it as a nuke (after Iku buffs of course) to justify her being ATK built? I'm thinking I might have to else I am lacking in physical firepower.
Sakuya can become a pretty good attacker. She can kinda pierce with her Piercing Attack passive, can paralyze with all attacks, and if you are lucky and have the extra attack passive she can do anything like 6 times in a row. She also has ATK boost so that's nice. :3
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oh oops sorry i should've mentioned im still on the first game.
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the first game.
Oh,oops :blush: . Well for the first game she can be a decent attacker because her killing doll multiplier is decent and she's pretty speedy if you have the SP, although you might need to put a bit more points into so she stays useful.
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Sakuya really needs all the ATK she can get to be a really good attacker. A buff greatly helps as Killing Doll has high damage multiplier while only having middling ATK multiplier.
Besides, other than her ATK, her other stats are very good, especially her HP, or that's what I had anyway. My game (which is post-***WINNER***, mind) has her HP on par with Meiling. Her defenses and affinities are so-so, but can be boosted further with items.
Really, compared with other powerhouses, Sakuya's ATK is subpar with disappointing multipliers. Yuugi has insane ATK while Nitori has broken ATK multiplier to compensate her low ATK.
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So I'm working on this team now, Currently half done with 4F.
Realising now this team has no status curing, so difficulties will be had early game (especially considering my only usable offensive buff right now is Iku). But what is getting me more is the fact that I only just realised the only Physical nukes I have are Orin's Needle Hill (but is that really much of a nuke?) and Return Inanimateness.
Not sure how I shoudl build Sakuya long term, I've kind of been spreading out a bit with a focus on DEF but I know I need to build her pure to be effective. Problem is, is Killing Doll worth it as a nuke (after Iku buffs of course) to justify her being ATK built? I'm thinking I might have to else I am lacking in physical firepower. I seem to have enough durability elsewhere right now (trying to use Wriggle as main tank and have DEF Yukari and MAG build Ran with currently excellent stats for backup. MAG Alice should be a decentish tank too as well as Iku for MND), but at the same time I am not sure if an ATK Sakuya is actually worth it. Idk I need advice.
I'm really reallly happy with this team's trash clearing abilities though. It's all better than last team so far and its basically alll much cheaper too (likely cos I have zero +disk chars this time around). I'm probably going to run into issues again after 13F cos of lack of good physical firepower other than Orin and Little Legion, however. I'm building Cirno for SPD for trash help cos she's otherwise useless after earlygame. Alice and Ran are having a pure MAG build this time around cos last time I used them both I built them defensively and they were fantastic maingame tanks but with a MAG focus they shoudl still be fairly bulky and good but also fantastic for trash clearing (and I really need Little Legion in this playthough lets be honest here).
Making Sakuya on a full ATK build should work as long as you're willing to buff that ATK during boss fights with Iku. Hell, Iku can support Sakuya further by debuffing the DEF of enemies with her spells, since Killing Doll has a high DEF influence, meaning that lowering that DEF that can and will make a difference in Sakuya's damage output. So Sakuya will need help in order to nuke effectively, but she's definitely good at it once she's set up.
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alright, i guess i will make her pure ATK from now on. I guess for every target that has ridiculous defense that renders Killing Doll horrible even after buffs, there's always magic attacks. It's not like there's too many bosses with high stats in both defenses in the maingame.
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Sakuya is a functional attacker, she's just not all that good either. It'll work. The main thing helping will be that you're still in maingame, so using The World will still actually help- in postgame spd is so prorated that it doesn't do much anymore... with Orin, Sakuya, Alice, and Aya you should be covered well enough for physical trash clearing. You might not have too much in the way of big physical nukes but that honestly doesn't matter too much, especially since postgame isn't a factor for this run so you aren't worried about double hibachi or anything.
Your main issue isn't really that so much as being able to last through bosses with no healing and subpar tanking capability. The big bosses of the game (Eientei, Yukari, Rinnosuke) are gonna be... problematic.
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Sakuya is a functional attacker, she's just not all that good either. It'll work. The main thing helping will be that you're still in maingame, so using The World will still actually help- in postgame spd is so prorated that it doesn't do much anymore... with Orin, Sakuya, Alice, and Aya you should be covered well enough for physical trash clearing. You might not have too much in the way of big physical nukes but that honestly doesn't matter too much, especially since postgame isn't a factor for this run so you aren't worried about double hibachi or anything.
Your main issue isn't really that so much as being able to last through bosses with no healing and subpar tanking capability. The big bosses of the game (Eientei, Yukari, Rinnosuke) are gonna be... problematic.
Eientei shouldn't be too difficult. I can build a significant portion of my characters to be relatively MND tanky and that will render so much of the fight silly damagewise. Alice Ran Yukari and Iku alone should be tanky enough for the fight, but if that's not the case I can still pump more MND into Sakuya Wriggle and Yuyuko for extra tankiness all round.
What worries me is Yukari and Rinnosuke. My only NTR attacker is Wriggle. I'm not counting on her to do huge damage with any attack alone, cos most of her damage is poison and I'm building her as a tank. So I'm really gonna have to utilise debuffs even moreso than usual. Luckily I have both Alice and Mokou to proc MAG debuffs on her super often. Cirno can proc some SPD debuffs too. That should be all I really need. But it's gonna be a struggle.
I'm worried about Rinno cos of lack of great great DEF tanks (Yukari is shaping up to be a better DEF tank than Wriggle oops) and just being able to survive his first/last/WND phases. Everything else should go reasonably okay?
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I have beaten the final boss a few days ago. The battle wasn't as hard if you are around Level 130 with 100 Voile Level in all stats. With max buffs and debuffs, my main attackers can do around 50k-60k, except Yuugi who dealt around 80k-100k instead. Its attacks in the second phase has high-delay and the boss itself is extremely slow if its speed is fully debuffed. The problem is in this fight is trying to debuff its Magic because for some reason, the debuff wouldn't proc, and that's annoying. Aya and Hina also help make the final phase much more bearable.
Now onto the postgame, once again, I don't see anything different from the original version. The random battles and shadow bosses are frustrating as ever but with the helps of Hina and Aya, most of the fights are bearable. I wonder if the developers test the postgame using only these two.
I have tried to fight some shadow bosses at the challenge level. Of Course, in some battles I just overlevel and kick some party members out because I can't figure it out why else the game stops the hard mode after the main game. Honestly, most battles are challenging yet fun to fight that way.
Malignut Eater, Paralysis Wasp, Kraken, Orchid can be beaten at Level 150 with 120 Voile Level in all stats. However, I have beaten Poison Wasp and Jungle Demonic Eye at Level 170-180 with with 150 Voile Level in all stats.
And I just beat Azure Giant's Shadow at the challenge level. Here's my party.
(http://imgur.com/x7rN9Tl.png)
Yuugi: Full HP build with 2 Cinderforge Sword and Grand Title can tank Giant's attacks like a boss. She takes around 8k - 10k with Giant's max debuffed normal attacks and Rasetsu Fist.
Momiji: 10k ATK and 15k Defense with Healer Subclass helps keep Yuugi in a healthy shape. Unfortunately, since Prayer of Recovery is nerfed, it only heals about 10k.
Aya: Full SPD build with 2 Costume - Ninja Lord and Grand Title. Aya has only and one duty, gives instant turn on Hina to debuff the giant like crazy.
Hina: Full MAG build. Debuff, Debuff and Debuff! She also dealt 100k with her FIre spell if the giant is fully debuffed.
Iku: Thoundcloud Stickleback, nuff said. Full DEF build.
Kaguya: Bullet Branch of Hourai, nuff said. Full MAG build.
Minoriko: Full HP build with 2 Button of Aegis. Without her MAG invested in at all, she heals about 10k.
Sanae: Full DEF build. Heals and Buffs
Kasen and Alice: They don't do much in this fight aside from being a secondary tank.
The fight went a bit messy but I lost only 1 person because RNG feels like it. The key of this battle was to have Aya uses either Divine Grandson's Advent or attack to keep Hina debuffing the Gaint's stats to -50%. Once the giant iwas fully debuffed, I would use Iku to fully buffs Yuugi, Kaguya, Kasen or Alice to attack the giant. Unfortunately, she died early due to being punched in the face so I was forced to use only Kaguya and Hina. I also had to keeps Yuugi alive at all time since no one else can survive Rasetsu nor its normal attack. Thankfully, the giant targeted Yuugi most of the fight. Its Earthquake and Great Roar, while very damaging, wasn't enough to OHKO my party members. Momiji, Minoriko and Sanae did their best to heal Yuugi at all time.
Whew, that fight was quite an ordeal. Where's the achievement for me now, game!?
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What worries me is Yukari and Rinnosuke. My only NTR attacker is Wriggle. I'm not counting on her to do huge damage with any attack alone, cos most of her damage is poison and I'm building her as a tank. So I'm really gonna have to utilise debuffs even moreso than usual. Luckily I have both Alice and Mokou to proc MAG debuffs on her super often. Cirno can proc some SPD debuffs too. That should be all I really need. But it's gonna be a struggle.
On my current run I only had to heal twice on Yukari since I made it a priority to keep her debuffed as much as possible. If you keep up the debuffs diligently (and she doesn't use Prayer of Purification too much) you can probably do OK there.
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Yeah yeah last run it wasnt toooooo bad but last run I also had Yuuka/Suika for attacking and I had Reisen and Mari (and even Shiki) to deal mass debuffs in one. I'm probably going to have to constantly keep Alice in the party constantly debuffing her MAG and then switching Cirno in and out cos I have nobody who can do it all at once.
Anyway I got Alice down, I made it all the way to just her left basically every attempt I made but the first two she killed me really easily with a Little Legion so I leveled up once or twice for some people and then reattempted. Hardest part about the battle was I have no way to protect against anything except two Yamabiko Necklaces, so everyone was getting paralyzed and silenced left and right and it was all round horrible. My winning attempt she didn't go hard on the status effects thank god and only silenced a few people (only PAR's came from stickleback). Ran was a godsend, for being able to do 2k buffed to Healing Light even with full defense buffs on it. Amazing.
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Alice Ran Yukari and Iku alone should be tanky enough for the fight
You should probably add some defense to them so they can survive Eirin's Galaxy in a pot spell.
Edit: You should probably add HP to if you don't think you could kill Eiren and Kaguya fast enough.
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Yukari with a full DEF build like I'm going with her shoudl be reasonable enough to sit in on every single boss fight if I need her to (which I will for every major boss definitely). Ran and Alice can just have sizeable SKP investments into their DEF and they will be fine. Iku I'm just going to keep her with MND, but she will probably be last slot anyway so I doubt she'd get hit often, if at all by GiaP
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Kinda off topic but may be useful for someone here. Recently I saw a game for sale on chrono.gg called starcrawlers, never heard of it. But I looked at the steam page and it looked kinda like a sci-fi etrian odyssey or something. So I bought it and been playing for an hour or so and so far it's really impressing me. It's early access though (though seems stable enough so far). So if anyone is interested in trying a new dungeon crawler, may wanna check it out. Do note that the sale only lasts for 13 more hours though.
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So wait are there characters in Laby 2 who are generally agreed on to be kind of horrible overall? Along the lines of Laby1's Eirin, Okuu, +disk Wriggle and Cirno who have niche uses at best but are completely and 100% outclassed by other people. I still know very little about the roster oops.
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Not sure I didn't play enough laby 2 to really know and listen to other people discuss such things, but in my experience, I found youmu and marisa to be kinda awful. Marisa's master spark often does less damage than her magic missile for whatever reason (its defense piercing ability is awful, just awful), though her magic missle and asteroid belt abilities aren't bad, they aren't enough to really make her shine as a dpser when she can't tank or heal or provide utility. Youmu was in a similar spot where her slash of eternity also had awful penetration, she would often hit bosses for 0 using it.
Honestly I found the damage formulas to be pretty wonky. Cuz some of the normalish nukes like rumia's would clean their clocks, and kogasa's mnd-reducing attack could not only do decent damage to any boss, but always reduced it's mnd resistance. Then they looked at nitori, and decided that megawatt cannon needed to be EVEN STRONGER. enter 3d cannon, wut (the formula may not be better but averaging them all out, it seems to be relatively better, not to mention nitori's godly passives)
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Re: Marisa. She still remains a fantastic trash wiper (probably one of the most efficient in the game at the job), and Master Spark is really reliant on either Marisa receiving buffs or the enemy's resistance, as the case needs be, being shredded. She kind of has an issue where Nitori just does her job better, but then again Nitori isn't really a fair comparison against anyone.
From my experience nobody's been unusable so far - some distribution of items, library levels, and maybe bonus items if you want tend to solve most woes. And as a disclaimer, I'm a fairly new player to this game and so anything I say should be taken with a grain of salt or criticized if someone else knows something that counters the flaws I'm about to mention. That being said, from glaring examples I've noticed (some of which not necessarily bad at their roles, just unnecessarily awkward to use)...
Youmu is kind of a case of just really poor design. She's a sustain/stay-in attacker who can't natively accomplish her job. Fighting Spirit and some cheaper spells would have really helped out there, or grand incarnation, or much higher values to make up for the fact she loses every other turn to concentration.
Momiji just...falls off as soon as you get Komachi. She has no real attractive purpose as a tank, no real merit as a bulky attacker save for her incredibly situational ACC boost, and overall is just someone you use if you really like her, but even then she's kind of a burden. Her numbers aren't awful or anything, there's just very little reason to use her over everyone else.
Kogasa is someone I love and tried to make work for ages, but TRR is just so unreliable against so many big value targets and she's so incredibly reliant on landing it that I don't really feel she works. It really sucks investing in a character that, for a not inconsiderable number of bosses, the game just goes "Nope, Kogasa doesn't get to really be a effective factor in this fight" even with other people attempting to apply TRR as well. Her raw numbers are totally fine, she's just too reliant on a status condition too many bosses resist heavily.
Ran is just kind of a lackluster jack of all trades. She doesn't do any of her jobs particularly well, and you need to focus on one of them for her because it's incredibly inefficent to do everything with her. Back-row buffing in this game isn't really worthwhile either, when it's such an incredibly small effect. She has some pretty incredible synergy with Yukari and Chen though, and really it's not like she's useless - just worse than everyone at everything she does because she has a hybrid tax without really being effective at that job with a disproportionate amount of investment.
Suwako is way more awkward than she needs to be, since you basically need to entirely reskill and re-equip her every time you want to use her for trash or for a boss, and she's hell on library levels to boot. She also has easily the worst skill in the game - why is a E/E/E bulk mage with awful afinites and no defensive skill incentivised to be put in the 1 slot? Honestly the only explanation I have for that is that somehow her and Kanako's abilities got swapped. I'm pretty sure she could be effective if you're willing to put up with the hassle, but...why put up with the hassle when you could use other attackers?
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Not sure I didn't play enough laby 2 to really know and listen to other people discuss such things, but in my experience, I found youmu and marisa to be kinda awful. Marisa's master spark often does less damage than her magic missile for whatever reason (its defense piercing ability is awful, just awful), though her magic missle and asteroid belt abilities aren't bad, they aren't enough to really make her shine as a dpser when she can't tank or heal or provide utility. Youmu was in a similar spot where her slash of eternity also had awful penetration, she would often hit bosses for 0 using it.
Re: Marisa. She still remains a fantastic trash wiper (probably one of the most efficient in the game at the job), and Master Spark is really reliant on either Marisa receiving buffs or the enemy's resistance, as the case needs be, being shredded. She kind of has an issue where Nitori just does her job better, but then again Nitori isn't really a fair comparison against anyone.
From my experience nobody's been unusable so far - some distribution of items, library levels, and maybe bonus items if you want tend to solve most woes. And as a disclaimer, I'm a fairly new player to this game and so anything I say should be taken with a grain of salt or criticized if someone else knows something that counters the flaws I'm about to mention. That being said, from glaring examples I've noticed (some of which not necessarily bad at their roles, just unnecessarily awkward to use)...
Youmu is kind of a case of just really poor design. She's a sustain/stay-in attacker who can't natively accomplish her job. Fighting Spirit and some cheaper spells would have really helped out there, or grand incarnation, or much higher values to make up for the fact she loses every other turn to concentration.
Momiji just...falls off as soon as you get Komachi. She has no real attractive purpose as a tank, no real merit as a bulky attacker save for her incredibly situational ACC boost, and overall is just someone you use if you really like her, but even then she's kind of a burden. Her numbers aren't awful or anything, there's just very little reason to use her over everyone else.
Suwako is way more awkward than she needs to be, since you basically need to entirely reskill and re-equip her every time you want to use her for trash or for a boss, and she's hell on library levels to boot. She also has easily the worst skill in the game - why is a E/E/E bulk mage with awful afinites and no defensive skill incentivised to be put in the 1 slot? Honestly the only explanation I have for that is that somehow her and Kanako's abilities got swapped. I'm pretty sure she could be effective if you're willing to put up with the hassle, but...why put up with the hassle when you could use other attackers?
Personally, I would do the following changes skillwise...
Marisa:
Add the skill Piercing Attack(because 20% of Master Spark's output dealing damage regardless of defenses is nothing to sneeze at)
Youmu:
Add the skill Grand Incantation(because it fits with her "focus, then attack" style of fighting)
Raise the Max Lv of Mental Concentration from 4 to 6(gives Youmu the ability to not need a MP boosting item to be able to use her Wind nuke with her fighting style)
Momiji:
Add the skill Firm Defense(because it helps out in tanking)
Add the skill Eye for an Eye(because it helps her to increase her damage output while tanking)
Add the skill Heart of Patience(because it grants her MP recovery while tanking)
Add the skill Impact Attack(grants utility to Momiji's attacks and possibly strengthens the Shock effect of Guardian's Shield Bash)
Suwako:
Add the skill Guts(To have synergy with Native God of Earth and survive the unexpected, making Suwako somewhat more forgiving than other glass cannons)
Change Suwako's skill "Earth Creation" to this:
"Earth Creation"
Max SLv: 3
Skill cost: 4
If there are 4 party members on the front line and Suwako is placed on the far right, her damage will be increased by (SLv * 12)% and her speed will be increased by (SLv * 10)%.
(Speed boost is for the sake of aiding a hit and run set up, since Suwako is not meant to take hits in the first place, so speed will be an important thing for that)
And while I'm at it...
Kanako:
Change Kanako's skill "Sky Creation" to this:
"Sky Creation"
Max SLv: 3
Skill cost: 4
If there are 4 party members on the front line and Kanako is placed on the far left, her damage will be increased by (SLv * 12)% and damage dealt to her will be reduced by (SLv * 12)%.
(Damage reduction is to aid in being in the front slot(36% dmg reduction is sweet, plus she can gain more from the Guardian subclass))
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Any thoughts on this?
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Any thoughts on this?
I'll be praying to Kanako and Suwako for this to done in the plus disk. :dragonforce:
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Eh I thought kogasa was actually better than average.. yeah sure she can't land terror that well, but that nuke that reduces mind is amazing. because it's damage formula is not bad, she has arm twisting so elements aren't an issue for her, and that mnd-debuff *FREAKIN ALWAYS LANDS*.. I mean not even hina can push a debuff on someone as well as kogasa, that's not an exageration. Maybe they patch/ruined that feature since I played though, I dunno. I just know it always landed on any boss always, even bosses that could consistantly resist debuffs like 10 times in a row from everyone else. I didn't even make kogasa that debuff-subclass either ffs. Plus that's all wrapped up in a nice package that does NOT have poor defenses.
I think this is really important because laby2, unlike 1, kinda REQUIRES the player to minimize enemy defenses and/or maximize op formulas like nitori/parsee/hina/etc. But average characters against endgame bosses not taking advantage of frankly near game-breaking combos see a lot of 0s by the end.
As for Marisa, I'm not really comparing her to nitori exactly, I'm just saying her master spark rarely hits harder than pretty much ANY decent nuke in that game because the piercing formula is so bad, even after I used kogasa to neuter enemy mnd defense! And yes I'd spam concentration on her for awhile too (I wouldn't really do 100% like in laby1 because it uses more mana in 2 and takes more time, but I'd generally get it to about 60% or so)
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And that's why I'm thinking about Marisa having Piercing Attack, so that 20% of of the damage output of her Spark deals damage regardless of defenses, so it's a bit better as a nuke.
What do you think of the stuff that I wrote on my previous post, Ghaleon?
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you guys make laby2 balance sound scary and bad :s
also i'm gonna end up overgrinded for Tam's Foe at this rate cos Nitori won't fuckin show up goddamn.
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Does anyone know where to get Smasher Mjolnir and Midgard's Tooth?
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And that's why I'm thinking about Marisa having Piercing Attack, so that 20% of of the damage output of her Spark deals damage regardless of defenses, so it's a bit better as a nuke.
What do you think of the stuff that I wrote on my previous post, Ghaleon?
Like i said, I haven't played much, nor for some time, so frankly I don't feel qualified to elaborate on someone else's observations beyond stating my own first impressions... that said, 20% guaranteed damage in marisa's formula for master spark for my own playthru... well.. 20% is much more than 0%, but she still would fail to impress me unless I fail to recognize a factor or whanot, which I admit is entirely possible. That said, I doubt she'd come close to being a nitori, hina, parsee, etc even at 40%, but wouldn't feel confident to argue otherwise if someone would against it.
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Okay, let's see... so the subject was Marisa/Youmu/Momiji/Ran/Kogasa/Suwako. I feel like your analysis of Marisa, Ran, and Youmu were about right. Marisa and Ran aren't bad, but a little underwhelming- at least Ran is saved by Yakumo team synergies. Her low-delay Soaring En-No-Ozuno is pretty strong with sorc Row Attack Strengthening, but not -awesome- or anything. I'd use Marisa if I was using Alice (dear god Alice is nice with that +40% magic bonus, what?!)
Momiji is actually a fairly attractive bulky attacker, I think- because her stats are actually -amazing-. She doesn't have the passives and moves to back it up that the other amazing tanks have, but her sheer stats are among the best in the game (If she doesn't have highest def in game, she's only like second place, with high hp and good mnd), and that lends her to be a -very- nice bulky attacker. She's got Instant Attack, which is a GREAAAAT passive (some people like subbing her as healer whether she's tanking or attacking just because of the security of insta-heals), along with several other pretty useful ones like the ACC boost and Accelerate, and her greatest weakness (lack of offense variety) can be solved by the array of physical subclasses available. I'm not planning on bringing the plus disk endgame passives into this discussion but she does get a particularly good one (as does marisa) that would drastically raise her stats.
Kogasa, as mentioned earlier, has the attractive passive Sheer Force. Because of the already wonderful accuracy of her MND debuff (and it's high strength ontop of that) it will basically always, always land, even compared to Hina, and with how many high def/mnd bosses there are holding you back, that's actually pretty sweet. TRR is nice, but she can put out plenty fine numbers even without it... don't hyperfocus on one cool looking passive. With Sheer Force, she can also sub guardian for a doofy, yet, I think possibly very-effective-on-many-bosses (NOT all, but the wiki helps you know which) SHK build using shield bash. No, don't use Karakasa Surprise, it doesn't work well >_> She can... sorta be a tank in some cases. A lot of her passives encourage her to do so, even if her stat layout isn't -entirely- friendly for it, so it can be a situational case for when you just want Sheer Force SHK and not damage.
Re-quipping Suwako isn't as bad as it sounds; there's a LOT of good atk/mag combo equipment so it's mostly just level bonuses, which you often have to swap for bosses anyway. More importantly, you're focusing too hard on single tools they're given. Oh boy, she's got a passive that's hard to use. Okay, then don't care about using it if it's so hard to use. Suwako is one of the strongest characters in the game and puts out nearly Flan-grade damage with Long Arms Long Legs, it's only that it's not all-target. If you use the moriya family but not the SDM family in your team, she'll beat Flan, even.
And sometimes I switch nukers into a weird slot just because it fits better with the current situation and they're getting swapped back out before the boss moves anyway (or I'm fine with just sacrificing them at the moment, but that's rarer). That's when you can use suwako's silly passive and get 36% extra damage. She's a silly character with a silly passive, but she's strong as all getout even without it.
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Magatama's Shadow beaten without using any defense-ignoring skill or Diva Aya subclass. By the way, this is also done at the challenge level by kicking some party members out, using only 9 people (with 3 being bench warmers.)
(http://imgur.com/L6O73Qb.jpg)
Since Yuugi's Knock Out in Three Steps is buffed up in the Plus Disk Trial, I don't know if this strategy is still doable in the original version. I used only these 4 front liners, Momiji and Sanae (for healing.)
Basically, Aya (1155 Speed) went first and spent 2 turns buffing up Iku's and Yuugi's speed respectively and then use instant-turn skill on Hina to debuff the Magatama. Iku (554 Speed, with maxed Lightning Fish skill) then buffs Yuugi twice in a row due to Thundercloud Stickleback's low-delay. Once Yuugi 's ATK buff is maxed out and the Magatama is fully debuffed. Yuugi cast Knock Out in Three Steps, dealing around 300k - 400k per hit. (Her ATK was 40938 at that time. All of her relevant skills were also maxed out.)
After Yuugi having done her job, Aya immediately went after her. I then used Aya to switch Yuugi with Momiji with instant-attack combo, putting Yuugi back at 7500 ATB again, getting ready for another Knock Out. The 75%, 50%, 25% HP threshold is essentially a free turn for you to keep wailing on the Magatama since they all have high delay. Thus, rinse and repeat the above strategy until you win.
Once again, where's my achievement for doing this now, game?
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Hello, I'm trying to analyze LoTH2 (because I honestly think it's worthwhile). Enemies, spells, chars, skills, loads and loads of stat numbers, etc. While not making Excel sheets yet, I've started by making a list of all the chars, their possible roles, and their (supposed) primary roles. This of course without taking subclasses into account. It would be this: http://pastebin.com/iVbCuUuF (be sure to click raw). I'm looking for suggestions, such as:
-Does everything make sense?
-Are there better categories to separate the chars into?
-What the hell is Ran?
I just want to more or less understand how this game was made (at least, as far as my non-Japanese speaking person can go). Also, if anyone has a changelog for the web trial I'd be thankful. I heard Aya got nerfed?
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The changes were listed inthread a looooong time ago... the biggest one, I'd say, is Byakuren's buff got like halved in power or something. That makes a preeeeetty big balance difference lategame where before she just utterly outclassed any other buffer. Some characters have a couple new passives/skills even apart from the actual new postgame stuff (I think Nazrin and Cirno? among others), a couple people got buffs (Utsuho got a good bit better iirc), etc.
too lazy to hunt down the whole list though.
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Also, if anyone has a changelog for the web trial I'd be thankful. I heard Aya got nerfed?
Someone posted this a while back. I believe this is what you're looking for?: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19029.msg1231810.html#msg1231810
Also I'm sad because it's already taking a long time for the Plus Disk to come out and it'll be even longer before someone makes an English patch for it. But it'll definitely be worth the wait; I've really enjoyed this game.
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Yeah, I've already read through most of the topic, I just wondered if another list was out there. At least I've passed down the stats of everyone to an Excel sheet, which is almost completely useless on its own for things besides admiring Kanako's bulk. Wish Sky Creation worked with her on the second or third slots.
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So I was messing around with equipment, trying to figure out what to give to who, and I noticed that speed barely changes when I equip a piece of speed modifying equipment. And beyond that, Equipment doesn't seem to provide nearly as high of a increase as the % would suggest - like a 2039 HP Sanae should be gaining 978 HP from a +48% HP equipment, but instead is gaining a little bit over 500. Is there something I'm missing about how equipment works in this game?
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The equipment doesn't take into account level up bonuses, Patchy levels, or other equipment: it's just a fraction of your base stats. As an example, if you have 100 levels in Magic, you've more than tripled your magic stat, but your +50% MAG equipment is still running on your base value, so your actual gain is much lower than 50%.
Speed is also calculated much differently from other stats, which becomes very evident in the late game. For instance, a statistical speed of 700 is actually only 4 times as fast as a statistical speed of 100, and to double that speed, you'd need to have a stat of 2900. Though buffs in battle do actually bypass this layer of calculation, as someone with a full speed buff will in fact fill their bars twice as quickly.
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Oh, alright. That makes sense, thank you!
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In LoT2 equipment bonuses factor in after some of the other stuff, so they provide a much more tangible effect. But in LoT1, yeah, the farther you get, the smaller bonuses get... which is part of the reason that, by the time you're into postgame, anyone who cares is probably gonna be about immune to status effects- the resist is worth more than a paltry 5% stat increase.
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Speaking of LoT1, I just started on it recently! And...Um, wow. It's kind of mind blowing just how...primitive it is in comparison? It's still reasonably gripping, but wow it's amazing how much of a leap 2 is on a lot of fronts. And the game over penalty sure is harsh. But that's not the point of this post! I was just hoping a LoT1 vet could please answer a few questions.
1) What's up with the MP system in this game? My party members are running dry incredibly quickly - is there any way to counterbalance this that i'm missing?
2) Are there any party members who are just unviablly bad or otherwise exceptionally awful? I heard 1's balance in that regard is a lot shakier, so it'd be nice to know if there's anyone I should avoid for my own sanity.
3) Is there anyone too good I should just avoid entirely? Like, Diva Aya tier or close.
4) Finally, is there anything I should know going into 1 from 2? I know 2 is a relatively forgiving game, so I figure 1 might have some more strict party comp rules or general exploration strats to succeed I'm unaware of.
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1) MP starts pretty low, but as it goes up with level, it becomes less of an issue relatively quickly. There is one late game fight that could put a stress on it, but as long as you rotate your characters effectively, you shouldn't have much problem past the first few floors.
2) The worst characters are probably Eirin and Okuu, but they're still quite usable, they're just obsolete compared to other characters that do their roles better.
3) The best characters are probably Meiling, Iku, Nitori, and Reimu, but none of them are game breaking monsters individually, since they're all specialized role characters. Meiling is the tank, Iku is the offensive buffer, Nitori is the DPS, and Reimu is the defensive utility.
4) Evasion doesn't work. Level up and library bonuses are permanent, so have an idea where you're going with your characters long-term. There are much less viable tanks in LoT1, so try to have one of Meiling, Komachi, or Tenshi on your squad. Fire and paralysis resistances are a good idea. Other than that, just use what you've learned from the second game and you should be fine. It's a bit tougher, but at the same time the balance is better since there aren't as many mechanical exploits or ridiculously defensive bosses.
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One does not simply survive everything without Reimu.
Also, more things to think of:
-The aforementioned evasion doesn't work and level up bonus and library points being permanent
-SPD in LoT1 has different formula for the characters, while the monsters have flat SPD like in LoT2. Say you have 1000 SPD, it will be around 400 flat SPD. Though some say SPD buffs multiplies the flat SPD not the stats SPD
-Dying is permanent, no 10TP penalty. Just leave and enter to recover. Be careful when trash clearing, or you'll be having a bad time.
-Less ailments and affinities. No PHY and DRK, and just PSN, PAR, SIL, and DTH. There is no SIL inflicting spellcards on our side, only enemies can use it.
And many others I can't think of.
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Komachi isn't a good tank in LoT1, wha'chu talkin' bout. But yeah extremely recommended to have Meiling or Tenshi first slot sit-in.
Speed buffs don't seem to multiply the flat speed, but I guess I could be wrong. It'd be better balance-wise, certainly.
Unlike LoT2, the back slots are actually, for the most part, pretty safe for squishy people (Especially the common "Squishy but MND is good"). LoT2 had WAY more physical alltargets or composite-y things and it just wasn't, but in LoT1 all-targetting skills are almost exclusively magic, with a few composites and a few -rare- physicals.
In LoT1, "proper" row attacks are more common on enemies and all function like they do on your characters; that is, row attacks deal the most damage to the leftmost enemy/character, and drop off in power towards the right. Even squishy mages can tend to take that 4th slot hit. Composite attacks are also different; they hit the enemy's DEF -AND- their MND, except for Sakuya's ones but they barely use magic anyway. This makes composite attacks harder to use, but in general, LoT1 has very few bosses with superhigh defenses so it's not as badas it'd be in LoT2- if you just buff up the composite attacks can work great. DEF/MND debuffs are almost worthless here too, by the way.
All debuffs have the same resistance unlike LoT2, so if they resist one, they resist them all (aka atk/mag/spd are not different resistances). There is also no debuff accuracy power with moves, so if it has a debuff or status (not DTH) then it will have the same accuracy as any other move that inflicts it... just a different effect strength/duration if it hits.
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Thank you all, the advice is really appreciated! I'm probably going to work on LoT1 for a little while, because 2 is serving as a major road block at the moment.
Namely, floor 20.
hp to 1 who also give every enemy a all buff, fast row attacks, exceptionally fast instant death spammers, massive healing kademas, enormous damage behemoths who absolutely need you to use someone who ignores defenses (iku for me) on them, enemies who punish my mys/drk heavy party whyyyy
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From my somewhat limited experience with SPD buffs, I'm almost definitely sure that they affect flat speed, not stats speed (which monsters don't have anyways).
Anyways, at least during the main game Reimu alone cannot really keep your party healthy without heavy SPD buffs (likely from Aya) to make her SP recover faster in the back. Minoriko does a much better job at healing. Use them both to maximize your party's ability to survive.
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From my somewhat limited experience with SPD buffs, I'm almost definitely sure that they affect flat speed, not stats speed (which monsters don't have anyways).
Anyways, at least during the main game Reimu alone cannot really keep your party healthy without heavy SPD buffs (likely from Aya) to make her SP recover faster in the back. Minoriko does a much better job at healing. Use them both to maximize your party's ability to survive.
I can't remember if I actually tested it or not, but I'm fairly certain speed buffs work on player speed, not actual speed.
And monsters do have a player speed as well - since it's just a single value for all characters and enemies. It's just that the database only lists their actual speed, and doesn't bother with the conversion factor.
Also this isn't a change in LoT2 - 1 and 2 use the exact same speed formula, IIRC.
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Well I tried to test it with my ***WINNER*** (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4STe2qQjQM) video where he used a lot of Wand of Speed and I still had my save (which means access to my characters' speed).
At 9:29 He used HP restoring medicine, which has a post-use of 2500 (meaning 7500 to next turn). After this turn he had a SPD buff of 25%.
If SPD buff affects player speed, he would have 3540 * 1.25 = 4425 player speed, which means 980 effective speed, which means it takes 8 CT to get his next turn.
If SPD buff affects actual speed, he would have 880 * 1.25 = 1100 effective speed, which means 7 CT to get his next turn.
One CT after, Minoriko, who has 2115 player speed (685 effective speed) used Wish for an Abundant Harvest, which has a post-use of 5000, meaning she needs 8CT to get her next turn.
A bunch of stuff happens in the next n (6 or 7) CTs, then WINNER receives his next turn and uses Sword of Light, but Minoriko survives. On the next CT Rinnosuke gets his turn, but Minoriko still hasn't gotten hers yet. Since there is at least two CT between the Sword of Light and Minoriko's next turn, it follows that it took six CTs for WINNER to get that Sword of Light turn after Minoriko's heal, which means he took 7 CTs between HP-restoring Medicine and Sword of Light, which means that SPD buff affects actual speed.
Now it's possible that not 1 but 2 CT happened between HP-restoring medicine and Minoriko's first turn, and I really don't have definitive calculations to support that (I don't really feel like running through the entire video just to calculate what CT the battle is on). However, if you rewind the video by two turns (WINNER's moves were Wand of Speed -> Ringil -> Sword of Light -> HP-restoring Medicine -> Sword of Light), when Wriggle gets her turn between WINNER's Ringil and Sword of Light, his gauge looks pretty much full enough to get his next turn on the next CT (at that point he had 40% SPD buff, which means over 1000 effective SPD either way). Sword of Light at 32% is 6 CT regardless, and Wriggle then performed two switches in a row (she had 2705 SPD which means 772 effective speed, so 4 CT per switch), with Minoriko getting her heal turn on the same CT as Wriggle's turn after her second switch, so it really makes sense that this particular point in time is only one CT after HP-restoring Medicine.
tl;dr version of (what I thought) the flow of clockticks:
CT0: WINNER uses Ringil. (4CT)
CT3: Wriggle performs a switch. (4CT)
CT4: WINNER uses Sword of Light. (6CT)
CT7: Wriggle switches Minoriko in. (4CT for both Wriggle and Minoriko)
CT10: WINNER uses HP-Restoring Medicine. (7CT if SPD buff affects actual speed, 8CT if SPD buff affects player speed)
CT11: Minoriko uses Wish for an Abundant Harvest. (8CT)
CT17: WINNER uses Sword of Light.
CT18: Rinnosuke gets a turn here, indicating that Sword of Light happened before CT18, which infers that his 25% SPD buff affected his actual speed.
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If you have a sufficiently high level Chen, you can have her act every single Tick after using Idaten the first time. Trying to go off a youtube video probably isn't best for accuracy. I don't know if it's still 30 FPS or not, though.
I'd try it myself but my install is apparently broken. I really should try to fix that someday...
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Yeahh it'd be easier to test it on player characters with your own speed buffs.
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Hello everyone! I have a couple of questions regarding LoT2 that I have yet to find answers for, I hope someone more experienced can answer them for me:
1. Enhanced Poison Wasp - I would like a few suggestions about who to take and what builds are best for them. During my test run, everyone was around lvl 110 and everyone, including my tanks Komachi, Mokou and Byakuren, was outsped and died in 2 - 3 hits. I'm guessing the Wasp's attacks only hit NTR and WND affinities, unless it has more attacks I never saw.
2. I noticed that my Main Equip list is missing one item. Looking at the wiki, it is the Modified Taser that increases PAR effects but I have no idea what drops it or which floor it's located on. Does anyone know if it is obtainable?
3. Is it possible to craft postgame Sub Equips? I'm thinking I need to recruit everyone first but that's just a guess.
So yeah, that's all the questions I have for now. Thanks in advance for your help.
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1. Postgame bosses are ridiculously hard due to their super-inflated stats unless you utilize both buffs and debuffs so bring strong buffers and/or debuffers: Hina (use maxed Biorythm to debuff all of enemies' stats.), Keine (group buffs) or Iku, (80% single target atk/mag buff) Even if you use those people, you still have to grind at 20F until you are around Level 150 then delevel OR kick your party member out with A button at human village if you want to fight them at challenge level.
The Poison Wasp usually alternates between its weak AoE Wind spell and its 1 single-target Nature poison attack or weak AoE Nature poison spell. (Attack = hits DEF, Spell = hits MND) Its attack stats is also ridiculously high so bring Wriggle with around 200-300 Nature resistance and around 10000 DEF and MND and use her as a tank. She will soak most of the damage (takes 7k damage if her Defense is unbuffed) and help reduce Poison effect on your party.
Now, its Defense is also ridiculously high but lower Mind. Your Physical attacker should be around 20k - 30k and the wasp's Defense needs to be debuffed (you don't need it to be -50% all the time but 30% - 50% are generally okay) to even pierce its high Defense. Also, if you can, max out your main attacking skill to further improve its damage. For reference, in my Plus Disk Trial run, Kasen with 26k with maxed Cursed Arm skill, maxed attack buff can deal 200k with her Cursed Arm if the wasp's defense is fully debuffed. Yuugi with 35k ATK and maxed attack buff can take out 1/4 HP of the fully debuffed wasp with maxed KOiTS.
In short, you need to use both buffs and debuffs if you want to get past the postgame bosses. The last shadow boss is extremely BS though.
2. You have to drop from the left hole in the northern part of 15F.
3. There are only 2 craftable post-game sub equip: Genji's Glove and Zeus Armor. Both of them requires Dragon's Mane as one of the materials. Two of them can be found in chests 11F Extra Areas (2 Shadow bosses defeated) and 16F Extra Areas (48 party members required.) More can be dropped from Dragon Larva in 16F Extra area where you have passed the rock in that area. (I think it appears frequently if you are at the center of that area.)
Oh, by the way, the wiki's bestiary has all of the enemies' stats listed.
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Swapping in Wriggle won't work super great and is sort of a pain if you haven't been using her, which you probably haven't. Drop a nature accessory on one of your tanks.
Byakuren is the best buffer by far for postgame and almost completely obsoletes other options. This will be true until plus disk comes out and hits her with the nerf bat, which has already been confirmed by the trial.
Enhanced Poison Wasp is REALLY strong, it's true; it's just a matter of being able to get your buffs (and hopefully debuffs) up before critical people die and after that it's manageable. You need to be able to throw up defense buffs -immediately- so Yukari/Reimu/Keine in the front along with Byakuren and whoever your proper tank is, and probably Hina too. You need Hina in your postgame party if you don't want to suffer horribly. Reisen could maybe substitute but she's really not as good.
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The first 2 or 3 post game enhanced bosses can be DTHed. Regular enemies are annoying too and the last 2 enhanced bosses can be harder than the secret bosses because of their resistances.
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So I finally got around to finishing up the postgame so that I'm all set for the plus disk. Thought I might use NG+ as a chance to mess around with some characters I mostly skipped over the first time. Is that bug where starting a NG+ that includes Renko and Mari breaks the 3 postgame bosses still an issue? The achievements for them didn't pop when I started one as a quick test but I figured I might as well just ask to be sure. After all it would be pretty annoying to only find out they broke way later on when I reach them.
On a side note yay another thing I finally got around to finishing was catching up on all these LoT2 threads! :D
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1. Postgame bosses are ridiculously hard due to their super-inflated stats unless you utilize both buffs and debuffs so bring strong buffers and/or debuffers: Hina (use maxed Biorythm to debuff all of enemies' stats.), Keine (group buffs) or Iku, (80% single target atk/mag buff) Even if you use those people, you still have to grind at 20F until you are around Level 150 then delevel OR kick your party member out with A button at human village if you want to fight them at challenge level.
The Poison Wasp usually alternates between its weak AoE Wind spell and its 1 single-target Nature poison attack or weak AoE Nature poison spell. (Attack = hits DEF, Spell = hits MND) Its attack stats is also ridiculously high so bring Wriggle with around 200-300 Nature resistance and around 10000 DEF and MND and use her as a tank. She will soak most of the damage (takes 7k damage if her Defense is unbuffed) and help reduce Poison effect on your party.
Now, its Defense is also ridiculously high but lower Mind. Your Physical attacker should be around 20k - 30k and the wasp's Defense needs to be debuffed (you don't need it to be -50% all the time but 30% - 50% are generally okay) to even pierce its high Defense. Also, if you can, max out your main attacking skill to further improve its damage. For reference, in my Plus Disk Trial run, Kasen with 26k with maxed Cursed Arm skill, maxed attack buff can deal 200k with her Cursed Arm if the wasp's defense is fully debuffed. Yuugi with 35k ATK and maxed attack buff can take out 1/4 HP of the fully debuffed wasp with maxed KOiTS.
In short, you need to use both buffs and debuffs if you want to get past the postgame bosses. The last shadow boss is extremely BS though.
Thank you for the advice! Strategist Wriggle was the MVP of the fight, tanking everything and ensuring Byakuren never dropped below 100% buffs. Nitori's Super Scope with 100% ATK buffs ended up killing the boss in 2 hits, most of the fight was just waiting for an opening to switch her in.
Here's the team I used, for reference:
- Strategist Wriggle
- Herbalist Mokou
- Byakuren
- Keine (to get Byakuren's buffs up quicker)
- Hexer Hina (debuffs everything)
- Guardian Komachi (SHK was surprisingly effective)
- Transcendent Nitori (best damage dealer)
- Healer Rumia (only needed to heal once)
Now it's onto the other Enhanced Bosses! Surely they won't be as difficult as the wasp, right?
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So after a long time of putting off playing the game for reasons that now seem incredibly silly, I started playing this game on Monday. Really took me back to the time I first played LoT1; very addicting. I ended up playing over 50 hours in not quite 5 days and finished the main game yesterday. I went through most of the post game today (haven't killed any of the 4 super boss things and missing the enhanced bossrush too). My biggest gripe the with game is probably that Youmu is just shit. I really liked pretty much all other changes from the first game (maybe not the MP system but I'm undecided on that, it goes both ways). My favorite change was probably that they took Nitori and broke her even more than she already was. In any case, my very balanced team looks like this:
Komachi (Strategist)
Nitori (Monk)
Patchouli (Sorcerer)
Reimu (Healer)
Keine (Herbalist)
Suika (Warrior)
Kaguya (Gambler)
Minoriko
Kanako (Transcendent)
Alice (Transcendent)
Kasen (Transcendent)
Eiki (Transcendent)
As you can see, I put a lot of thought into my subclasses :^) As a tank, Komachi doesn't do much anymore because Nitori does it better but her Strategist perks are nice so she is still in the party. Maybe the Guardian damage reduction would have been more useful on her. I tried out a bunch of characters that ended up not being in the party but maybe one day I'll switch stuff around to see how they are when you take them further, as well as the few I completely ignored. I pretty much went with similar strategies as I would in LoT1. Disregard what the boss does and just wail on them until they're dead, occasionally heal. If their defenses were high, just buff some more before you hit them. Always worked in the first game so why not in this one? I also have a feeling that I didn't change my level up points nearly as much as I was probably intended to. I managed to find use for that feature twice. Both times on characters I ended up not using for very long as well. I may have not made full use of that :^)
On another note, some of the achievements were pretty dumb, by the way. The equipment Nitori sells is shit, why would I spend 200k on that? Also escaping 50 times in one dive or getting 36 items. Fucking hell. Another thing that annoyed me in the first game and did in this one as well were Battle Point requirements. Forcing the player to use characters they may not want to use is a shit feature. The FOE feature was a great idea though. I really liked those fights. A good way to introduce some sort of mini-boss without cluttering the map with boss events. I also liked that they found a way to get easy access to boss without just putting them at the end of a map like it was often the case in LoT1 with a relay point in front (although that was still often used). I liked the music too. I can't even decide which of the stratosphere themes I like most.
The next time I play, I plan to defeat the four super boss things and the V2 boss rush. I haven't looked at the wiki but since there was a V2 for every not-2hu boss, probably there will be one for the final boss too so I would fight that too. (And maybe grind before it if it's too strong)
As for the Enhanced boss difficulty, I found Azure Giant to be the most difficult. Everyone just somehow died really quickly except for Nitori but she couldn't deal great damage because of the buffs. Knowledge was fun too. I had to kill it before it could fire off the Ether Flare because it dealt 50k to Nitori with 300 MYS affinity, so naturally, everyone died. Short damage race. In contrast, the Poison Wasp wasn't so bad if you have a character who can deal a fourth of the boss HP per hit. The strongest Kappa.
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You should plunk Transcendent subclass on Nitori and gawk at how high her stats are after you max it's boost passive.
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Yeah, the increase was pretty significant (4,500 on ATK, 30 on SPD, 1,800 HP and then 2,000 and DEF/MND) but I lose some pretty sweet perks if I move her from Monk. The 50% chance of instant start for 2 free buffs, the self buff and lowered delays are all pretty good. I'm also a fan of the NTR attack that pierces DEF that the Monk subclass brings. I'll play around with her on Transcendent tomorrow to see which one I like better. Transcendent seems like the subclass you put people in where you have no idea what else to do with them. Or at least that was the case with me.
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That's sort of true, and bulky attackers in generally just do pretty well with transcendent, but Nitori's case of low base stats propped up by Maintennance actually makes transcendent an especially powerful class for her; the stat boosts are MUCH larger for her than for most characters. You get more stats out of that than with the passive buff in her case.
The piercing attack is really good, but Nitori's nuke is already pretty good at that so she doesn't generally need it (unless it's like, a super high def enemy that's also weak to ntr).
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You know, you are probably right when you say that Transcendent is better for Nitori but after playing around a bit, I've noticed Nitori missing a lot more as a Transcendent as well as missing Iron Mountain Charge on some of the post-game bosses, since basically all of them strongly resists PHY and are weak to NTR. The Second Sun in particular has high defenses it seems and Nitori's 3D gun actually dealt less damage in the same amount of time than the Iron Charge did. And with the Desire eating Demon and the Guardian of the Crystal being very strong against PHY and weak to NTR, I feel like having Nitori as a Monk right now is actually more beneficial than the stat gain from being Transcendent.
I'm probably just biased and being dumb because I've had good experiences with Nitori in this subclass so changes scare me, idk :^)
edit: Nitori quite literally killed the Desire eating Demon on her own with Iron Mountain Charge, dealing whatever amount of HP it had on her own. This just confirms MVP in Monk for me. Maybe for the final boss V2 it might be better to switch to Transcendent, but right now definitely not.
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Not giving Komachi Healer / Monk is baffling to me but I guess with your lineup, she's the only character that can reliably stay out on the field forever.
I'd personally give Strategist to Keine and give Herbalist to Minoriko, if you're dead set on having Herbalist on the team. Minoriko has plenty of free time on the team, since after switching her in to heal up Komachi after a big nuke or something, she's not doing much else. Reimu / Keine are keeping your defenses topped off, and Keine has the added burden of buffing your team's attack, so giving her another burden of applying the Herbalist buffs is a bit much in my opinion.
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What you're saying makes sense in regards to Keine but I haven't had any issues with her being overburdened in practice. I actually use Keine for defensive buffs only occasionally, when the situation doesn't need offensive buffs so maybe that's why. To be honest, I never even considered Healer/Monk on Komachi or Strategist on Keine. For the former it was always going to be Guardian for the damage reduction or Strategist and for Keine it was always going to be Herbalist or Enhancer. I did consider Healer/Herbalist for Minoriko but felt like her heal was powerful enough as is and having two Herbalists would feel overkill (maybe it's not, idk).
I do have to correct you on one thing though. With my lineup, Komachi isn't the only one who can reliably stay out forever. Nitori can do the same and is my second slot character. Some library investment and proper equipment actually make her a wonderful tank, in addition to damage dealer.
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in postgame nitori is broke as hell. All her stats and resistances skyrocket with the best gears on. Tankiest character in your party... in a full atk build.
Why does she have a super strong team synergy skill in the postgame trial leak data that'd make her stats even massively higher??? Well, maybe it won't actually be in the game.
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Komachi tanks with Elemental resistances and her insane HP pool. I guess an argument could be made about the damage reduction from Guardian, but the added benefit of 4% more regeneration due to either Monk / Healer is also strong in its own right specifically for Komachi. Healer gives Komachi something else to do when she's not spamming Avici for the debuffs/ switching people out, and Monk's passive 4% stat buff per turn shouldn't be underestimated as having SPD buffs on your tank is important.
I tend to pretend Nitori doesn't exist because of how broken she is.
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I tend to pretend Nitori doesn't exist because of how broken she is.
Truthfully, it's not Nitori that's broken, but the Maintenance skill(honestly, please nerf it to a 50% equip stat increase instead of a flat out equip stat doubler). So, I know that I asked this before, but how viable is Nitori without that skill, given all of her other skills and what not?
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Her nuke is REALLY strong, so it'd still be pretty good even without the boost from maintennance. She'd be a total glass cannon though, and wouldn't bring much else of interest to the table anymore except -just- Super Scope, due to her atk stat being low-ish for a physical attacker and not being capable of staying out. She wouldn't be awful for sure (Super Scope's too strong for that), but I'm not sure she'd do enough damage to outcompete other options either, when there's strong nukes on characters either with more attack variety or more durability or something. Also she can't gamble like Suwako or Flan due to mp costs already being too high, so they'd beat her damage out in terms of all out glass cannon.
But that's if maintennance was totally removed and she didn't get anything in exchange. Anyway, just lowering it to 1.5x would be pretty fair I think. She'd still likely be too good but it probably wouldn't be -dumb- levels of OP? It might be harder to justify giving her a lot of your best gear to really put her at her best?
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Anyone have access to the F13-15 guide? The pastebin link on the wiki is expired and I was dumb enough to not save it the last time I played through this wonderful game. Now I can't find the guide anywhere. :(
Cheers
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Her nuke is REALLY strong, so it'd still be pretty good even without the boost from maintennance. She'd be a total glass cannon though, and wouldn't bring much else of interest to the table anymore except -just- Super Scope, due to her atk stat being low-ish for a physical attacker and not being capable of staying out. She wouldn't be awful for sure (Super Scope's too strong for that), but I'm not sure she'd do enough damage to outcompete other options either, when there's strong nukes on characters either with more attack variety or more durability or something. Also she can't gamble like Suwako or Flan due to mp costs already being too high, so they'd beat her damage out in terms of all out glass cannon.
Ah, I see.
Then maybe something like this should fix her:
Old Stats:
HP 80 (10.0)
MP 15 (1/18)
Attack 58 (10.8 )
Defense 32 (5.6)
Magic 24 (4.0)
Mind 36 (6.4)
Speed 102 (8.7)
Evasion 15
New Stats:
HP 99 (12.8 )
MP 15 (1/18)
Attack 68 (12.8 )
Defense 44 (8.0)
Magic 24 (4.0)
Mind 48 (8.8 )
Speed 103 (10.2)
Evasion 28
Spellcard Changes:
Attack formula for Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall is now 210% ATK - 90% T.DEF, can debuff both DEF and MND by 28% (chance of infliction is unchanged)
Attack formula for Exteeeending Aaaaarm is now 205% ATK - 65% T.DEF, and post use gauge is now 50%
Portable Versatile Machine now also buffs ACC by the same amount as other stats, and post-use gauge is now 85%
New Spellcards:
Kappa Electro-laser
Target: Enemy Row
Element: WND
Post use gauge: 50%
MP Cost: 5
Formula: 180% ATK - 90% T.DEF
Added Effect: 70 + (SLv * 7)% of inflicting PAR (3000 + (SLv * 300)) on enemies.
Skill Changes:
Replacing Maintenance with Sheer Force.
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How's this? Too OP? Not enough?
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Anyone have access to the F13-15 guide? The pastebin link on the wiki is expired and I was dumb enough to not save it the last time I played through this wonderful game. Now I can't find the guide anywhere. :(
Cheers
http://pastebin.com/LJ7Y8GvR
Also, I'd love to get back into LoT, but I'm at a grinding point in LoT1 (so I don't really feel like playing that much) and I'm not sure what to do to keep me interested in LoT2 right now. I really wish Plus Disk was out already.
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Hello everyone! I have a question about using stat-boosting gems and such: is it better to use them on characters with lowish base stats or on those with higher stats?
For example, when using ATK gems on Nitori, does she get a higher boost then someone like Flandre? I recall reading somewhere in the threads using them for lowish stats gives better stat boosts but I can't recall the exact details.
In other news, I have defeated all the Enhanced Bosses + Deformed Bosses! :toot: Renko looks very OP, Nitori-tier with Maintenance; Maribel is surprisingly bulky and has some interesting spells, good support. On to 16F Extra!
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They get the same stat increase, but % wise, this is going to make a bigger difference on characters with lower base stats. Because defenses work on a subtraction formula, your super valuable def/mnd gems might still be best on your tanks, but that'll depend entirely on your party and how you play. Giving Flandre 19 base attack instead of 17 (not real numbers) matters less than getting Chen from 8 base to 10 base.
Since Nitori has low base stats that still matter anyway because maintenance gives her massive boosts, she sees a pretty big return on investment of any kind of gem. Anyone with low stats you use anyway works well for gems, so if you use any low ATK/MAG characters offensively, they're great options, and it can help make some of them more viable.
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That makes sense, thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I figured using my ATK gems on Nitori would give the best return, Renko looks like a prime candidate for my DEF + MND gems (I have 15 DEF gems, yes I always hoard statboosters). I think I'll feed my SPD gems to Nitori as well, maybe give her TP gems as well.
My apologies if I'm flooding the thread with questions, it's just some stuff I thought of while typing this up:
1. Does defeating non-enhanced Ame no Murakumo with average lvl < 100 drop MAG gems? If it doesn't, I'm guessing the Enhanced Boss Rush and the four hidden bosses might drop some. Nevermind, I used a Reincarnation Tome on Alice, got some gems back.
2. I noticed I still have 2 Chest Keys, are there any locked chests in the postgame areas? I think I've cleared them all out but I might have missed a hole on 14F or something.
Thanks for all your help.
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After a bit of a break from my second NG+ team playthrough of LoT1 I went and fought Eientei.
Did it on a complete whim and came out victorious? Even avoided extra grinding by not defeating Tenshi or even activating her quest nor have I fought Nitori or Suwako or Sanae's Foe either yet. Highest level on my team was only 49 going into the fight lol.
But yeah anyway, Yukari got magic drained like right after she used a quadruple barrier on her first turn. Iku got a lot of MND debuffs from Reisen while she was out. Alice got PAR'd by a Stickleback so she couldnt beat down on Reisen with Return Inanimateness for a while. Honestly I think Ran and Orin were my biggest damage dealers in the entire fight. Had so much bad luck and I only had Rumia as a healer (and not enough time to Iku buff her either) and I still managed to win, wow. Was just a matter of removing Reisen and then debuffing Kaggy and Eirin's magic and then Kaggy died and Eirin got off one Astronomical Entombing but luckily I saved all 3 Zodiac Stones you get before the fight and eqipped em on Ran, Iku and Yukari and they all survived it fairly okay.
So yeah, wow, that was crazy. But I'm not complaining ;)
Sick of 13F as a floor though, might grind on it some but skip getting most of the treasure and just move on as fast as possible.
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2. I noticed I still have 2 Chest Keys, are there any locked chests in the postgame areas? I think I've cleared them all out but I might have missed a hole on 14F or something.
The first set of floors has a set of three chests next to each other when at that time a player would only have 1 key. Did you check there?
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I just recently got into this game, and my big question is with the challenge levels.
If I have a team of Lv6, with the exception of one or two Lv7 characters, and I take on a boss with a challenge level of 6, will I get the reward?
Edit: Nevermind, I found out there's a "Average Level" counter :blush:
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The first set of floors has a set of three chests next to each other when at that time a player would only have 1 key. Did you check there?
I already unlocked those ones. After going through every floor, it looks like there are more keys than locked chests. I'm guessing more will be added in the Plus Disk.
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I beat Komachi, recruited Parsee, and recruited all the characters I could before beginning 4F and now have 13 characters on my team, meaning I won't be able to fit them all inside my party. So that brings the question, which characters are better? (Feel free to include characters I don't have yet)
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I beat Komachi, recruited Parsee, and recruited all the characters I could before beginning 4F and now have 13 characters on my team, meaning I won't be able to fit them all inside my party. So that brings the question, which characters are better? (Feel free to include characters I don't have yet)
Im only at first tenshi battle, but at that point of the game you pretty much already own "basic starting team configuration".
The game is, we sure going to mix match & re-spec on every boss battle.
But at that point in game i mostly use
Komachi for HP tank, (row 1)
Momiji for Phy Def tank, (row 1/2)
Minoriko for single greater heal, (row 3/4)
Reimu for area lesser heal, (row 3/4)
Rumia(r 3/4)/Kasen(r 1/2) for regular/penetration attack (i refer them as assault)
Marisa(r 3/4)/Youmu(r 2/3) for area High damage attack (i refer them as blaster)
Rinnosuke for PT management (row 3/4)
Keine for filling, a bit tank, a bit buffer (row 2/3)
They're the team that on first battle with bossess to see what the boss is like. (as far as i remember it's never work lol)
Later on, i depend on Aya for SPD atk/buffing (row 3/4) (i havent tried evasion tanking yet, but that might be a thing for her)
I never go without Komachi, Momiji, Kasen, Minoriko & Rumia,
I think i have only paired kogasa & parsee on just one boss battle so far. Same with cirno and nitori.
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Everyone still gets EXP, so the way you should decide your party is accordingly to what floor/boss you're facing. Just adjust to whatever you think is best, there's not really leaving any party members behind unless they fall behind really hard on library level investment.
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Pretty much everyone is fairly good (there are a few exceptions, and some characters are more situational than others), it's mostly your personal preference, and somewhat what the rest of your party composition is. This is the kind of game where you can make your main attackers from any anyone and it's pretty much fine, if you like them enough. Even Minoriko can be viably used as an attacker with backup support later in the game, due to her passive MAG buffs if you dump some of your magic-boosting gems on her (permanent +100% magic buff due to subclass bonus is sweet- especially in Plus when Byakuren gets nerfed) and in Plus Disk (whenever that happens...) Keine's MAG-boost synergy with Mokou is buffed enough for her to also be an actual viable attacker.
Although there's a few characters that are stupid good. Nitori's maintenance gets steadily more ridiculous as you get better equipment, for example. Parsee is -really- strong early in the game with her crazy high MND and Small Box Large Box damage. Meiling is a crazy good durable attacker even if you don't use any other SDM members. And on the reverse side, Youmu is pretty underwhelming. RIP.
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It's sad, but Youmu is indeed pretty much the most underwhelming character in the game. Everyone is very usable, some more than others, but she's really not the best, sadly enough. She was somewhat fun to use in LoT1 because back then she dealt actual damage. I think the removal of non-elemental attacks kinda killed her a little. Her subpar damage in comparison to others lets her only really function as a tank, and a lot of other characters do that far better. Youmu's decent in the early to fill up a party slot, but that's really it after that.
On another note, after a long time of not playing, then grinding, I have finally beaten Okuu. Kanako is so insane in that fight.
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I'm getting nowhere with Mokou. She regenerates more health than I can deal. Any suggestions to help?
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I don't remember Mokou's regeneration being -that- big of a problem... you're using your level up bonuses on atk/mag and spending library levels/using equipment for your offense characters, right? (I'm sorry if those are dumb questions, but gotta cover the bases!) In any case, Kogasa's water attack is pretty useful, especially if you can land fear on Mokou after learning Troubled Forgotten Item. Nitori boosts water damage in the front row, Keine can buff atk/mag, etc.
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I don't remember Mokou's regeneration being -that- big of a problem... you're using your level up bonuses on atk/mag and spending library levels/using equipment for your offense characters, right? (I'm sorry if those are dumb questions, but gotta cover the bases!) In any case, Kogasa's water attack is pretty useful, especially if you can land fear on Mokou after learning Troubled Forgotten Item. Nitori boosts water damage in the front row, Keine can buff atk/mag, etc.
It looks like all I had to do is spend ~4000 coins on library levels and switch some items around, and the fight went ok. Thanks for the advice :]
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Guys, on the first Tenshi fight, do the Divine Barrier only drop from her ? or you can get it from somewhere else?
im not sure im up for grinding again to defeat her or even put her down to 50% hp........
The first fight i had with her really scared the shit out of me.......
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You can get more, but it's a very rare and powerful item, at least until well into postgame (where it's still pretty good). However, if you don't want to beat the first Tenshi, just don't; even methods like uberpumping all your stuff into one ideal blasting character and Tome of Resurrecting them after to get it all back... still makes the fight pretty difficult and RNG to win unless you grind like 10 levels. Don't worry about it.
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So that means its not the only one in entire playthrough
Aight, thanks sailor moon, time to not totally get wrecked by that beitch
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Hello everyone! I'm thinking of starting NG+, planning to use characters I haven't used very much (Cirno, Meiling etc.) and those who I recruited late and didn't get a chance to shine (Yukari). I am open to suggestions for possible teams, I'm thinking I'll switch up after every floor or something to keep some variety. Are there any changes in NG+ besides starting with everyone? I'm pretty sure it's just the Touhou bosses disappearing though I'm probably wrong.
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Hello everyone! I'm thinking of starting NG+, planning to use characters I haven't used very much (Cirno, Meiling etc.) and those who I recruited late and didn't get a chance to shine (Yukari). I am open to suggestions for possible teams, I'm thinking I'll switch up after every floor or something to keep some variety. Are there any changes in NG+ besides starting with everyone? I'm pretty sure it's just the Touhou bosses disappearing though I'm probably wrong.
The Touhou bosses actually stay, making it possible to fight Kaguya with Kaguya, Komachi with Komachi, etc. Also, that one boss on the 3rd floor (I can't remember its name, but it's the plant thing you fight with Yukari and Yuyuko) is now fought with just your party (as in, you don't get a high level Yukari/Yuyuko to help out), but it's at a lower level to compensate. The challenge level for it stays the same though, if I remember correctly.
There's also 3 of the postgame bosses disappearing if you start with EVERY character, but this isn't meant to happen because of NG+; it's due to a glitch.
Other than that, I don't THINK anything else changes, but feel free to prove me wrong, anyone. I haven't played this game in a while sooo...
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I think that's it. I'm not sure if the disappearing glitch was entirely consistent, though. I think I tried opening an NG+ save with -every- character and I didn't get the 3 achievements that confirm those bosses are locked out.
But it's been a looong time since I peeked at that.
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Hello everyone! I'm thinking of starting NG+, planning to use characters I haven't used very much (Cirno, Meiling etc.) and those who I recruited late and didn't get a chance to shine (Yukari). I am open to suggestions for possible teams, I'm thinking I'll switch up after every floor or something to keep some variety. Are there any changes in NG+ besides starting with everyone? I'm pretty sure it's just the Touhou bosses disappearing though I'm probably wrong.
So... LoT1 or LoT2?
Either game still has the Touhou bosses.
For LoT1 teams there are many options. Speedy Cirno, Rumia for hitting and some healing, Orin for slightly fast hitter, Mystia is stronger and faster Cirno without SPD debuff.
I don't know much about LoT2, sorry.
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Thank you everyone for your replies! Yeah, I don't know why I thought the Touhou bosses disappear, I recall reading somewhere that they did but I must have misunderstood.
I started my NG+ and then I saw all the character events were still there and ??? It looks like I still need to complete character events to advance, even though I already have everyone.
The Touhou bosses actually stay, making it possible to fight Kaguya with Kaguya, Komachi with Komachi, etc.
Yeah, I fought Youmu with Youmu, my Youmu was the only casualty (why is Youmu so terrible). I look forward to Komachi vs Komachi.
So... LoT1 or LoT2?
Sorry for not being clear, I meant LoT2.
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I just obtained my first Stone of Awakening, and it doesn't seem like there's an unlimited amount amount of them, so the question is, how many Stones of Awakening are in the game, and where are they located?
Also, for special items like Mr. Midnight Oil Sets, are they supposed to be equipped, or does their effect work simply by possessing them?
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I just obtained my first Stone of Awakening, and it doesn't seem like there's an unlimited amount amount of them, so the question is, how many Stones of Awakening are in the game, and where are they located?
Also, for special items like Mr. Midnight Oil Sets, are they supposed to be equipped, or does their effect work simply by possessing them?
There are 12 Stones in total, two of which are obtained in Post-game areas, the rest are found in specific floors leading up to the final boss. If you're using the wiki, it tells you which floors the Stones are found on. Once you've obtained all 12 Stones, you'll get a Jewel of Greater Awakening that grants you unlimited Subclasses. Mr. Midnight Oil Sets, Kanenoki Kobans and Item Discovery Weeklys don't need to be equipped, their effects work automatically.
I hope that answers your questions.
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I started my NG+ and then I saw all the character events were still there and ??? It looks like I still need to complete character events to advance, even though I already have everyone.
Only Youmu's event is needed to trigger and finish every time you start NG+. You don't need to recruit any required characters again to get pass the blocking rocks. However, some of the events/bosses will not show up unless you trigger a certain event.
For example, if you don't trigger Rin's event, you won't find Satori in order to remove the blocking exclamation marks and thus cannot move further into the game.
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Only Youmu's event is needed to trigger and finish every time you start NG+. You don't need to recruit any required characters again to get pass the blocking rocks. However, some of the events/bosses will not show up unless you trigger a certain event.
For example, if you don't trigger Rin's event, you won't find Satori in order to remove the blocking exclamation marks and thus cannot move further into the game.
Ah I see, so I just need to find all the events again. Thanks for the clarification.
Just something I thought of, for those who have used Youmu, what kind of build does she do well in? I feel her spellcards are way too slow and weak to use in an attack build, so I figured she's best as some kind of tank, getting buffed each turn with Meikyo Shisui.
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Youmu is probably the worst character in the game, unfortunately. Meikyo Shisui isn't particularly great because she's not going to get anything done if you're not casting skills, even tanks will eventually have useful support subclasses. Her skills cost too much mp and are weaker than other dedicated attackers, and she doesn't bring much to the table as a tank, especially with her abysmal Mind stat that will get her murderized by any magic- that pretty much excludes her from any consideration of being a tank most of the time.
She's an okay tank early in the game against stuff without much magic (at this point meikyo shisui's passive buffs probably ARE worth using), and her damage isn't -terrible- if you just really like Youmu, but she really... doesn't do particularly great at anything. She's the perfect tank for the Komachi fight and after that she's just kind of bad. If you insisted on using her you might want to focus on Desperation to try to improve her damage- the increase would be more than 25% and being under 60% max hp isn't soo bad.
I think she's the only character I'd say is just bad, though. Granted, there's a few others that are "Well, they're getting a lot more useful in Plus Disk.". IIRC in Plus she does get a nice damage bonus passive... near the end of the game, but only enough to make her a lot less bad, still not enough to make her a legitimate considerable option versus others.
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Is there a way to boost MP regen? Kaguya is really powerful with the "Royal People Of The Moon" skill, but her mana depletes really quickly, and her mp regen is the stuff of nightmares.
Also, I need tips for the Yuugi boss fight, as well as Alice.
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It's helpful to use multitarget moves, especially ones that hit the doll summons weaknesses, on the Alice fight. I really don't remember, although I think Wind and Cold were good... otherwise, if you've got someone like Hina to blanket debuff everything, that might make it pretty easy too.
There's some main equips (and eventually one sub equip) to boost MP regen. Kaguya definitely needs at least one more point. With that and her passive to increase back row regen, she's awesome.
Yuugi... hrm, I didn't have trouble with that fight. She just blasts out one person at a time, right? Damage rush it. Blast her with all the magic and other various moves you've got. She's an FOE instead of a proper boss, right? That'd mean you can overlevel for her, too, if needed. edit:Wiki says she's weak to Wind, Mystic, Spirit, and poison.
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About Yuugi... you could also try to employ either Kasen/Mokou with their "Resurrection" ability, or Aya as an evasion tank (possibly both)
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About Yuugi... you could also try to employ either Kasen/Mokou with their "Resurrection" ability, or Aya as an evasion tank (possibly both)
Uh, Kasen has Guts, not Resurrection, and the chance of chance of Guts triggering is 50%, as opposed to Mokou's 90% with Resurrection. Still, it does help(I remember it working 2-3 times during my fight with Yuugi), so it's not to be discounted by any means.
Also, the Alice fight is painful if you don't guard yourself against Heavy, since it locks you in place for so long, and you'll need to pack some fire and physical resistance to deal with her stronger attacks.
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There's certainly more than one sub equip that raises MP Regen but for your purposes in going through the main game, just know the MP Regen boosting items are few and far between.
The solution to the whole Maintenance issue is simple: Buff up the base stats of the characters who have Maintenance and lower the effectiveness of Maintenance. As an idea, Maintenance slowly turning Nitori from a sub par flimsy character with weak stats into a late game monster is fine. Its just because equips get so much stronger in the late game and in the post game that she transcends from being a really good bulky attacker to flat out broken. Maintenance on Renko
works just fine without being oppressively strong even when you give her the best equips. Part of that is due to how her offensive spell is mainly for the utility
but really its just because her stats feel balanced with Maintenance in mind.
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The solution to the whole Maintenance issue is simple: Buff up the base stats of the characters who have Maintenance and lower the effectiveness of Maintenance. As an idea, Maintenance slowly turning Nitori from a sub par flimsy character with weak stats into a late game monster is fine. Its just because equips get so much stronger in the late game and in the post game that she transcends from being a really good bulky attacker to flat out broken. Maintenance on Renko
works just fine without being oppressively strong even when you give her the best equips. Part of that is due to how her offensive spell is mainly for the utility
but really its just because her stats feel balanced with Maintenance in mind.
Huh. I do recall posting something about a solution to Nitori's OP-ness...
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Old Stats:
HP 80 (10.0)
MP 15 (1/18)
Attack 58 (10.8 )
Defense 32 (5.6)
Magic 24 (4.0)
Mind 36 (6.4)
Speed 102 (8.7)
Evasion 15
New Stats:
HP 99 (12.8 )
MP 15 (1/18)
Attack 68 (12.8 )
Defense 44 (8.0)
Magic 24 (4.0)
Mind 48 (8.8 )
Speed 103 (10.2)
Evasion 28
Spellcard Changes:
Attack formula for Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall is now 210% ATK - 90% T.DEF, can debuff both DEF and MND by 28% (chance of infliction is unchanged)
Attack formula for Exteeeending Aaaaarm is now 205% ATK - 65% T.DEF, and post use gauge is now 50%
Portable Versatile Machine now also buffs ACC by the same amount as other stats, and post-use gauge is now 85%
New Spellcards:
Kappa Electro-laser
Target: Enemy Row
Element: WND
Post use gauge: 50%
MP Cost: 5
Formula: 180% ATK - 90% T.DEF
Added Effect: 70 + (SLv * 7)% of inflicting PAR (3000 + (SLv * 300)) on enemies.
Skill Changes:
Effect of Maintenance is now "Increase Stat boosts from Equipment by 50%".
New Skill: Sheer Force.
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My original post actually stated that Sheer Force would replace Maintenance, but I decided to change that, given the discussed topic at hand. The question here would be if this version of Nitori is less OP or even more OP than the original... What do you guys think?
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Yes you did post about it, but there were unnecessary changes. I also don't like talking about specific numbers since outside of hacking them into the game, the numbers aren't going to change so there's no point in talking about whether a +2 base ATK growth increase or a +2.4 DEF growth increase would make her better or worse.
You've done this multiple times, and for the most part I've ignored it but could you please stop talking about specific changes? This isn't a game where the developers are actively listening to / looking for feedback to change their game. Even if they are, they wouldn't be looking at these specific forums.
Edit: I got a little heated over the fact that you reposted your theoretical changes. You can keep posting these specific changes (not like I can stop you, and its not like you're violating any rule), and I'll just keep ignoring them. No offense to you, I'm just tired of seeing these posts.
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To be honest, I actually don't mind if someone tells me to stop. If it's annoying someone, then it's better that someone tells me to stop so that I don't annoy them. Truthfully, I would of wished you would of told me sooner so I wouldn't of kept going on and on about it.
I'm also kind of glad that you did tell me now, because I was thinking of a lot of theory crafting in terms of certain things in the game(namely the sub-classes, but I digress) and posting all of that here, and I'm sure that would of only made things worse for you. I thank you for considering my feelings via your edit as well, since it shows that your words weren't not out of spite, simply annoyance from the heat of the moment.
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Hi all, got another LoT2 question: Who is overall the most reliable character with single-target healing? From what I understand, Minoriko is the speedy but fragile one, Eirin is slow but tanky and Sanae is somewhere in the middle. I tend to stick with Eirin because she's tanky but I would like to hear what everyone thinks.
Also, progress of my NG+: currently on 7F, preparing for Alice showdown. I've started using Cirno and Mystia, Team 9 synergy is really good. I've been using Remilia as my main tank, she's doing well despite her massive fire weakness*. Kourin sorta sucks right now but I'm sure he'll become a beast after another 20 levels.
*Little anecdote of Mokou fight: I forgot she uses Fujiyama Volcano immediately after losing all HP, I thought I was gonna have to reset. Remilia at full health equipped with Love Machine took Fujiyama Volcano to the face and lived with <100 HP.
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For single target healing everyone often uses Minoriko. Eirin is unreliable and Sanae is a bit slow. But for healing in general, really, one does not simply survive everything without Reimu.
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For single target healing everyone often uses Minoriko. Eirin is unreliable and Sanae is a bit slow. But for healing in general, really, one does not simply survive everything without Reimu.
Oh yes, Reimu is fantastic, 10/10 best multi target heals. I'm not sure why Eirin is unreliable? Is it because of 50% max health heals? I agree with Minoriko and Sanae though. What is Sanae best at? Single target buff everything?
Edit: Just remembered Rumia and Yuuka have multi target heals too. Yuuka's heal sucks but Rumia in a MAG build actually heals a reasonable amount. Does anyone else think so or is her heal actually crap compared to Reimu?
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Jester sounds like he's talking about LoT1.
But this is LoT2! Eirin is godlike. Give her healer subclass and use that instead of Hourai Elixir (unless you need status cure) and she'll overheal for a billion HP. Minoriko is useful for the passive MAG buff and is good at randoms too, although unless you embrace her non-healing abilities heavily (With MAG+ gems she can realistically be a damage+support combo at perma-100% mag buff) you'll be ditching her for other characters with more widespread use later. Sanae is awesome for buffing and fairly durable with nice heals on the side, and Moriya is a solid team synergy. Rumia's heal is great the whole game and if your buffs are covered you can -totally- ditch Reimu for Rumia, no problem. Yuuka's heal may as well not exist, though. Sometimes Extra Attack makes it decent but it's not really a heal, it's a small top-off bonus whilst you try to deal damage.
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Hello. I just downloaded this game and was wondering if there was a cheat engine table or something I could use for it that gives you all items, characters experience etc. I haven't found anything so far so if there's one can someone link the download.
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Let me make this clear:
1. Do not mention that you downloaded the game
2. DO NOT MENTION that you downloaded the game
3. There are links to the cheats at the first post of this thread, check it
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1. Do not mention that you downloaded the game
2. DO NOT MENTION that you downloaded the game
Is that a Fight Club reference, by chance?
@ Azuresands: Feel free to ask us any questions about the game, friend. As Jester has stated, there are tools for cheating the game at the first post of the topic. If you find that any of the links are broken or need some help in something, let us know and we'll see what we can do about it, okay?
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i havent posted in months here :V
still any news about the plus disk or that kinda died off? :ohdear:
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i havent posted in months here :V
still any news about the plus disk or that kinda died off? :ohdear:
Well in that case welcome back!
I don't think there's been any new info about the plus disk, though what is new to you may depend on how long you've been gone. Shame, because the sooner we get it the sooner an English patch will show up. Though I'll probably just do what I do for Fantasy Maiden Wars and just use online translations, like the LP someone did on the SA forums, or the menu translations someone on here did.
Speaking of which, is anyone planning on making translations for all of the plus disk content when it comes out (not necessarily a patch, just a compilation of what everything is)? I'd offer my help with that, but sadly I don't know even the slightest bit of Japanese...
I've been playing a lot more of FMW than I have of LoT lately. Hopefully when the plus disk releases, that'll change.
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I made some adjustments to my personal liking to the character images in LoT2, most are a mix of simple color adjustments to less yellow colors and slapping on a random less happy mouth (I like my touhous grim, sorry)
which isn't worth sharing but some got a bit more work as you can see.
From what I saw just now, yuyuko got a relatively poorly made boob-makeover, which I wouldn't call worthy of being shared, Parsee got the dark Aura that Rumia has behind her, Komachi, also boobs, not very well made.
Also I used one of Tenshis alternate versions as the character portrait, which is just a simple filename change to fix anyway.
So yeah, it would probably need some work, which is why I haven't posted this way, WAY earlier, but I think some things would be worth sharing, if someone can be bothered fixing their mouthes (I doubt anyone likes the generic one I used there for a lot of characters, I just copy pasted those).
Also notice Utsuhos hair if the flames were too distracting. So would anyone like to see these with original colors and original mouthes? I'd work on it if someone tells me it's worth to share it then.
(https://puu.sh/rsmtI/6a3a816453.png)
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wait, we can replace the labyrinth 2 portraits?
i never knew this :derp:
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So how are you supposed to handle random encounters in this game anyway? I've taken a "nuke everything" approach because there always seems to be severe TP issues or death issues if I try for a slower/less poewrful but tankier party setup, and at all times unlses i'm heavily grinded going second seems to be a recipie for disaster and party member deaths. Someone else who got into the game recently has mentioned having the same issues - is there just something we're doing wrong, or are random encounters just purely rocket tag affairs?
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Tanks are for bosses, and the occasional enemy with ridiculous speed. For everything else, yeah, just murder as fast as possible. Randoms can and will hit just as hard as bosses if you let them, and there's a lot more of them in a fight.
Though you don't need an entire team of speedsters, just one or two characters you can trust to go first and drop an all-target. Even if everything doesn't die immediately, reducing the numbers quick make the fights a lot less dangerous.
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Yeah. Just keep one or two durable party members on the left for the most powerful attacks. For the most part, other than your tanks, your other members should be built offensively; yes, you want attackers who aren't hopelessly glass to be able to take a hit, but the main focus is their offense. (Some people are more capable of straddling the line between attack and tank than others)
Since you can swap your level bonuses on the fly, even some of your support characters may want to go offensive for random fights. Minoriko does pretty well, for example.
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I'll just leave this here while silently getting hyped up:
http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2P/top.html
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In the wake of the 3.45 patch of Final Fantasy 14, I didn't think I could get any more hype. So I'll just sum up my feelings like now.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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WINTER COMIKET HYPE!!!!!!
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I have no idea what's written on the site that was linked to, but I'll take a wild guess, and say that it has something to do with the Plus Disc for LoT2 :wat:
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I have no idea what's written on the site that was linked to, but I'll take a wild guess, and say that it has something to do with the Plus Disc for LoT2 :wat:
Even so, you could guess it from the link. The link has THL2P which is TouHou Labyrinth 2 Plus.
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Oh boy my hecks! I was wondering why this topic suddenly exploded. Looks like it's time to play through this masterpiece one more time before the plus disk releases! :D
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So, Mamizou, Koishi, Shou, Futo, Miko, Kokoro, Tokiko and....
My guess, Kyouko? but the background colour are orange-ish Kosuzunan?
edit : nevermind, that's akyuu freakin silhoutte......
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That was an unexpected, but definitely a welcome surprise.
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Sweet! I really hope they'll fix Maribel's abilities upon this release...
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The new features page would have looked a lot more exciting to me if they weren't already in the demo files :V
But nice to know that it's almost finished.
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OMG IT'S FINALLY HAPPENING!!
I'M REALLY HYPED FOR THIS!!! >.<
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Hey guys, just got to the final floor of the main game and was wondering if it was possible to farm 12 stone of awakening in one run including post game. Or do I have to do a new game plus to unlock the achievement.
Also, is there any way to farm tome of reincarnations? I've held off from resetting classes incase it is limited in one run. Since I'm assuming new game plus will allow you to get more via treasure chests and the item event things.
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Hey guys, just got to the final floor of the main game and was wondering if it was possible to farm 12 stone of awakening in one run including post game. Or do I have to do a new game plus to unlock the achievement.
You can indeed get all 12 stones in one run. The ones you still miss, if I recall correctly, should be in the extra floors below 12F
Also, is there any way to farm tome of reincarnations? I've held off from resetting classes incase it is limited in one run. Since I'm assuming new game plus will allow you to get more via treasure chests and the item event things.
I don't think so, unfortunately. Maybe the Plus Disk will offer some way, but until now they're in limited quantity (though you do get quite a few), and since you can't carry items to a New Game+ (only unlocked characters), you will be stuck with the tomes you get through your run
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Also, is there any way to farm tome of reincarnations? I've held off from resetting classes incase it is limited in one run. Since I'm assuming new game plus will allow you to get more via treasure chests and the item event things.
Another thing to note is that resetting classes does not use up any tome of reincarnations . The tome of reincarnation resets your designated character's library points to 0 and refunds back the gold you spent on it .
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Wow i'm going to winter comiket this year! I can't quite read japanese, but does he reveal his booth location yet?
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Is that a LV600 random encounter? WHAT
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LoT1 went from lv~100 enemies to lv400+ encounters in plus, so considering LoT2 goes up to nearly 200, a lv600 encounter isn't too shocking. Although it is... pleasing. B)
I wonder how lategame stat scaling will go, especially in terms of stat boost junk, differing library rates and level rates, etc. Characters like Rumia can get WAY more library than Yukari or Byakuren for the same price and level notably faster- and you're not capping everyone at the same level as much in postgame as maingame, in my experience.
Hype!
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You can indeed get all 12 stones in one run. The ones you still miss, if I recall correctly, should be in the extra floors below 12F
I don't think so, unfortunately. Maybe the Plus Disk will offer some way, but until now they're in limited quantity (though you do get quite a few), and since you can't carry items to a New Game+ (only unlocked characters), you will be stuck with the tomes you get through your run
Going through the wiki that mentions you should have 10 stone of awakening by 15F, though i've only gotten 8 throughout the main game, going around searching the ones i'm missing but it's tedious not knowing which area i haven't explored/if i've picked it up or not since all the treasures are faded out, is there anywhere that has the exact location of the stones? Wiki just says things like "around southern area of...." which helps sometimes but not verily....
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Apparently , it seems that there is going to be another trial version released sometime in November which is going to include the endless corridor feature.
https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/795469027816579072
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Endless corridor? What's that?
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It's one of the two major things stated to be added to the Plus Disk (the other of course being the Great Tree Depths), essentially an endless randomly generated dungeon where you can earn Infinity Gems to spend on special items at a store Akyuu opens up. If I recall, that's also where you can earn special character specific items that unlock skills and otherwise strength each individual character.
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AND ANOTHER TRIAL!?
THAT'S IT. THIS IS SUCH A BEATIFUL DAY.
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Nevermind, found the missing 10 stones on floor 12 and 14, having 8 divas + rumia decreasing the spawn rate helps a lot haha
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Just downloaded the new trial, suddenly all the sound effects and music vanished and all my text is squares, will try poking around blind as much as i can, i just dropped all the files into my extra copy and ran the new exe
meanwhile
(http://i.imgur.com/iGQwx8J.png)
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If you were mixing files between the trial and the english patch or something, then you may have broken something. All boxes likely just means you're not in JP locale though.
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If you were mixing files between the trial and the english patch or something, then you may have broken something. All boxes likely just means you're not in JP locale though.
anddd thats what i did, dropped all the files on my english patched game
ops....
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IT'S OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/796751765911863298?lang=en
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Clarification, the DEMO is out- which DarkAtma has already posted images of playing, so, slightly late. XD
He also recommends using a backup when playing the trial, and reminds that your save data is not backwards compatible.
edit:With more google translate on the page, this seems to be an updated trial compared to the one released a few days ago. AKA, bug fixes. Also, a few people have new skills in this trial verison not present in the original plus disk trial... 2 for Kogasa, and one for each of Keine(I think?), Meiling, Youmu.
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Can someone upload it? Firestorage hates me apparently even though I don't think I've ever downloaded from it, so uh... yyyyeah. Since it's free to download anyhow it shouldn't break any site rules so eyyyyyy...?
EDIT: Nevermind, Firestorage finally decided it likes me now. Sadly don't have a good postgame file other than my one Team 9 one and the one posted awhile back that I hacked from uh... whoever it was that uploaded it. Regardless, might as well see if I can't open up the Endless Corridor, eh?
EDIT 2: ...Err... okay, anyone have any idea as to how to open up the Endless Corridor?
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I have no idea, but I would assume you need to clear a decent amount of either the new upstairs or downstairs in order to find it.
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Well, I don't think I'll poke at it too much myself, instead I decided to do a tiny bit of datamining again. Looks like the references to the new above-ground and unseen belowground floors were removed from the floor list. It does include B4F, so I assume that's accessible, and it includes the template for Endless Corridor floors, so that should be accessible too.
(Also, I keep swapping back and forth between Endless Corridor and Infinite Corridor, we should probably come up with a common name for it. :V)
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From what I read, he planned to release 2 trial versions until late november, so maybe this one doesn't include the endless corridor yet. I might be wrong though.
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What were the new subclasses again? :V
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What were the new subclasses again? :V
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19029.msg1233871.html#msg1233871
That was from the previous trial version files. Things may have changed since then. I would look in the executable but the file sharing site won't let me download anything.
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https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19029.msg1233871.html#msg1233871
That was from the previous trial version files. Things may have changed since then. I would look in the executable but the file sharing site won't let me download anything.
Thank you. Yeah I had problems with downloading it as well... It took me like 30 mins to actually get a download...
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From what I can see from the hacked save I still have that gives all the new items, the subclasses and skills from before are still there, at least from what I can see, same for achievements, etc. The only thing that's missing from a cursory look at a text dump I just did are all the floor names I translated out, barring B1F-B4F and the Endless Corridor floor templates.
As for my dump, linked for reference.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7EiMC40FKulRmZsc1R3ME1MU2c/view?usp=sharing
Compared to my previous dump, this one includes everything, but as usual most of it is garbage information.
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From what I can see from the hacked save I still have that gives all the new items, the subclasses and skills from before are still there, at least from what I can see, same for achievements, etc. The only thing that's missing from a cursory look at a text dump I just did are all the floor names I translated out, barring B1F-B4F and the Endless Corridor floor templates.
As for my dump, linked for reference.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7EiMC40FKulRmZsc1R3ME1MU2c/view?usp=sharing
Compared to my previous dump, this one includes everything, but as usual most of it is garbage information.
I don't know why but it won't encode correctly.
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...Huh. I put it in Shift JIS mode in Notepad++ when I looked at it and it worked out fine, so I dunno what's up. I can throw the exe over if you want that flatout, if the site's still giving you troubles downloading the trial. @_@;
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Based on the bug fixes in the trial, some of the new subclasses should actually be available in this version, for whatever that's worth.
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Do we have any information about whether or not the old bugs from TH2 (such as Maribel's key skills being broken) have been fixed or not?
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In the last trial (WebTrialC), which new characters were we able to get?
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In the last trial (WebTrialC), which new characters were we able to get?
Mamizou
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Looks like an updated version of the trial came out (Trial D'), bug fixes mostly, but I noticed there was a "TD21G.txt" file that came with it. The TD files determine floor layout, and while 21F normally is very small, the 21G file looks like a whole regular floor. If I had to guess, it's going to be a redesign to the floor for when the aboveground floors are properly added in (since as it stands, we only have floors 1-21, plus B1-B4). I'm curious to see what comes of it.
EDIT: Patch notes, in case you're wondering
不具合修正を行ったweb体験版rev.D'を公開。
・地下４Ｆ最奥のボスを撃破後、21Ｆに進入するとゲームが終了する不具合を修正
・地下４Ｆ最奥ボスの１戦目では宝珠アイテムがドロップしないように修正
・スキル「治療限界突破」の説明文と効果のズレを修正
Something about the game crashing when going to 21F after beating the last boss of B4F? Guess that means 21F changes after that happens, which explains TD21G.txt
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So will there be an english patch for the plus disk or at least a translation of all new stuff? If the english patch isn't compatible with the plus disk will I have to play the game in japanese?
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So will there be an english patch for the plus disk or at least a translation of all new stuff? If the english patch isn't compatible with the plus disk will I have to play the game in japanese?
No one will seriously work on it until the whole thing comes out (and no, the old English patch is highly unlikely to be compatible), and even then that's not going to get done in a day. You'll have to deal with moonrunes in the mean time.
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Anybody still remembers on what page someone listed all the plus disk subclasses and items? i wanna read that stuff again
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If anything, English patch-wise, we'll be able to have some of the stuff translated ahead of time if anyone wants to work on that so that once the inevitable week or so of early bug fix patches comes out, we could do a patch reasonably quickly, depending on how things go. I'm sorta busy with college and stuff, but if I have free time I might try my hand at some translations (even if they're generally not as good as, say, Deranged's translations, plus I can't do dialogue, but I think I might be able to do item descriptions and such).
On that note, for version D' of the trial, I made a new text dump, and this time edited out the garbage. Found a reference in the list of relay points to one leading to 21F, which affirms my suspicions about 21F changing upon some event happening after B4F.
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DarkAtma, RegalStar posted a link to the specific post 2 days ago.
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Since I'm familiar enough to the game I think it will still be playable to me even if the language is changed to japanese in favor of the plus disk, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to live with that permanently or at least till an english patch is out
Do you think more characters will be added? I swear I'd kill for Nue being in the game. It's a total shame that she and Koishi were not in the initial release in the game (at least we have Koishi now)
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There's no more characters coming out, almost definitely. They already have a silhouette of the 8 on the website, and they always do them in batches of 8 because of how menus work in this game (or just because that's how they do it)
Almost everything is already (sort of) translated from the data leak in the demo, apart from descriptions of items, descriptions of subclass moves, achievements, and obviously any dialogue or in-dungeon text. So yeah, once it can be felt like the bug fix patches have already been thrown out and translators feel like it's safe to make big patches, a gameplay-tier one won't be terribly far off- it's pretty much as good of a situation as you could hope for with doujin game translation speed, it won't be out in a week but it'll probably happen before too long. (If there's not a lot of dialogue a-la ThLaby1 Plus maybe even a full one isn't that far off, but you can never really tell. I think this one might actually sort of have a story in it, aka lots of dialogue that takes a long time to finish.)
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DarkAtma, RegalStar posted a link to the specific post 2 days ago.
that only sends me to the front page :v
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Try page page 12 for earliest spoilers (characters), things are spread out on the following pages.
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edit:With more google translate on the page, this seems to be an updated trial compared to the one released a few days ago. AKA, bug fixes. Also, a few people have new skills in this trial verison not present in the original plus disk trial... 2 for Kogasa, and one for each of Keine(I think?), Meiling, Youmu.
If you guys know already, what are the new skills that these characters have? Are they the same as what was said was in the demo for the character's endless corridor skills, or something different?
I ask because if they are different, then maybe 3peso had realized that Youmu is underpowered and the new skill is something that will compensate for it. (I'm hoping for a "Grand Incantation under a different name" skill, to be honest.)
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I can't really say for sure, however, it sounded like they were brand new skills; and since it was only for a few characters then it goes to follow they are NOT endless corridor skills, which everyone already had two of. The other plus disk trial had added a few new skills too, like for Alice and Cirno (alice is stupid good now, but almost neccessitates using Marisa... mph. well, Alice is still pretty good now even WITHOUT Marisa, it's just you lose 40% free extra magic.)
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Try page page 12 for earliest spoilers (characters), things are spread out on the following pages.
Many thanks, found what i was looking for at page 15
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If anything, English patch-wise, we'll be able to have some of the stuff translated ahead of time if anyone wants to work on that so that once the inevitable week or so of early bug fix patches comes out, we could do a patch reasonably quickly, depending on how things go. I'm sorta busy with college and stuff, but if I have free time I might try my hand at some translations (even if they're generally not as good as, say, Deranged's translations, plus I can't do dialogue, but I think I might be able to do item descriptions and such).
On that note, for version D' of the trial, I made a new text dump, and this time edited out the garbage. Found a reference in the list of relay points to one leading to 21F, which affirms my suspicions about 21F changing upon some event happening after B4F.
I could just translate the entire thing wholesale, although given that I'll be using google translate for the task, and I've found out that there's a limit as to how much of a document that it can translate at once(based on the calculations made from where it cuts off with the help of Notepad++, I've found that I would have to split the blasted file into 36 parts to get google to translate it all, and then copy and paste the translations back together again... -_-; )...
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Okay, here's the four character's new skills in the second trial for anyone who can read moonrunes to parse if they want to.
YOUMU: http://puu.sh/shtYZ.png
KOGASA: http://puu.sh/shu4u.png http://puu.sh/shu5B.png
KEINE: http://puu.sh/shu7D.png (Also, Keine gets 42% MAG boost with Mokou now instead of 30%)
MEILING: http://puu.sh/shucw.png
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Okay, here's the four character's new skills in the second trial for anyone who can read moonrunes to parse if they want to.
YOUMU: http://puu.sh/shtYZ.png
KOGASA: http://puu.sh/shu4u.png http://puu.sh/shu5B.png
KEINE: http://puu.sh/shu7D.png (Also, Keine gets 42% MAG boost with Mokou now instead of 30%)
MEILING: http://puu.sh/shucw.png
I think that I found the relevant skills in the text dump. Bear in mind that I'm posting this exactly as I found it in the translation...
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0x00a7db40
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This effect will not be demonstrated when "Super water repellent tarnish ghost" is acquired.
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0x00a7db94
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During combat, reduce damage from enemies in fear by 40%.
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0x00a7dbd4
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Tang umbrella of the surprising spot
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0x00a7 dbf 0
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The power of attack behavior rises 33%.
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0x00a7dc18
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Only in case of attacking a fearing enemy during battle
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0x00a7dc48
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Ultra water repellent ghost
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0x00a7dc64
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"Chinese Queen's Qigong" buff maximum stack number is (SLv).
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0x00a7dca8
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When concentrating, HP's (HP buff) is recovered instead of total consumption of "Chinese Queen's Qigong" Buff.
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0x00a7dd10
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At the time of attack, the power increases (buff number * 10)% instead of totally consuming "Chinese kid's qigong" buff.
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0x00a7dd78
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When a turn comes around to himself, stack "buff with Chinese kid's qigong" buff by himself.
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0x00a7ddd4
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Chinese Chinese girls qigong
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0x00a7dde8
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"Fame of swordsmen" buff disappears, its own HP decreases by 20%, and the power of its attack behavior rises by 50%.
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0x00a 7de50
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When "Build of swordsmen" Buff is attached and HP makes an attack in a state of complete comfort,
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0x00a7dea8
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When concentrating, give himself a "fighter of swordsmen" buff.
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0x00a7dee0
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"Accumulation of history and sword" "History accumulation / mirror" The maximum stack number of buff is up to total (SLv) together with sword and shield.
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0x00a7df50
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"Accumulation and history of history" * 10% increase in attack magical power, "history accumulation / mirror" * 12% protection mental increase effect.
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0x00a7dfc0
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"Three kinds of Sacred Sculpture Mirror" will increase the "accumulation of history / mirror" buffing effect by 1.
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0x00a7e018
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"Three kinds of Sacred Sword" is used, the "accumulation and history of history" buffing effect increases by 1.
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0x00a7e06c
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Accumulation of history
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Presuming that the "fighter of swordsmen" bit is Youmu's, I think that it's safe to say that my hope was answered, but not in the way that I had been expecting, for better or worse...
Still, I'm actually glad that I had the good fortune in finding the relevant info so quickly.
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So Youmu's is a modified Grand Incantation after all, but it sounds like you might need to be full hp...? Google translate only halfway gets the job done, as usual. It does fine for Kogasa, at least. Keine's is kinda hard to parse but I can sorta get the gist of it...
Throw Guardian on Youmu for efficient concentration and combo with her "buffs at full mp" stuff and she might actually kinda work, after that. It's only 50% increase though, so I'm still not sure she's actually -good-... it helps though.
Kogasa has an infinite corridor skill that doubles her damage to fear'd enemies, so she can actually get like, 266% damage on fearing enemies? She's really turning into a super fear slayer. The damage reduction one might actually be more useful, though.
Meiling is already godlike so any bonus is just icing on the cake, and Keine... well, it's interesting to see how she develops in general, so I'm curious exactly how that skill works. Between the dev really trying to make her offense-capable with Mokou and Byakuren no longer totally dominating buff land, she might be relevant. Actually, she has a godlike infinite corridor skill that basically makes anyone an Instant Attacker, so yeah, becoming a more interesting character is definitely nice to hear on her. (Ugh it's gonna be so hard to make a party after infinite corridor, there's so many incredible skills people get after that!!)
edit:Hrm... it occurs to me in the first edition plus disk demo we didn't have infinite corridor skills for the 8 new characters. Since the corridor is in now, I wonder if now, the data would include...
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Google's more or less got it right, but cleaning it up:
Okay, here's the four character's new skills in the second trial for anyone who can read moonrunes to parse if they want to.
YOUMU: http://puu.sh/shtYZ.png
Swordmaster's Spirit
The user gains the [Swordmaster's Spirit] effect when [Concentrate] is used.
When the user attacks with full HP and [Swordmaster's Spirit] active,
the attack's power increases by 50%, the [Swordmaster's Spirit] effect is consumed, and HP decreases by 20%.
KOGASA: http://puu.sh/shu4u.png
Ultra Water-repellent Ghost Umbrella
Increases damage of all offensive actions performed on targets inflicted with TRR by 33%.
http://puu.sh/shu5B.png
Astonishing Ghost Umbrella
Decreases damage taken by targets inflicted with TRR by 40%. Ineffective if [Ultra Water-repellent Ghost Umbrella] is already learned.
KEINE: http://puu.sh/shu7D.png
History Accumulation
When [Three Treasures - Sword] is used, the [History Accumulation - Sword] counter increases by 1.
When [Three Treasures - Mirror] is used, the [History Accumulation - Mirror] counter increases by 1.
[History Accumulation - Sword] increases ATK/MAG by (counter * 10%) and "History Accumulation - Mirror"
increases DEF/MND by (counter * 12%). The two counters go up a combined maximum of (SLv).
[It actually says a combined maximum of the Sword and Shield effects up to SLv, but unless Keine has even more new skills, I assume 3peso meant Mirror there.]
MEILING: http://puu.sh/shucw.png
Chinese Girl's Qigong
The [Chinese Girl's Qigong] counter increases by 1 when the user gets a turn.
When attacking, the power of the attack increases by (counter * 10%), and the counter is reset to 0.
When using the "Concentrate" command, recovers the user's HP by (counter * 10%) and the counter is reset to 0.
The counter goes up to a maximum of (SLv).
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Oh man, Keine's is amazing. Between her base stat boost infinite corridor skill, +41% MAG with Mokou, +50% fuggin mag from her new passive, she could hit something retarded like 30+ base mag and be throwing subclass skills around like tactical nuclear warheads. You can also go the other way with defense and make her into a super wall, which combined with her 9999 atb swapping passive, is also amazing. Keine's gone from "meh, okay-ish support, good with Mokou" to YES, YES, YEEEEEES! in plus disk.
Since Youmu's doesn't require maxhp max or anything after all, she might actually be good now... but it's only 50%, her moves were only as strong as normal character's before, and she still has to concentrate every other turn. On the upside, she also will get +12% buffs to all stats every turn. Guardian is a highly desirable subclass to cut down concentration delay but it doesn't give her much other than efficient concentrate and "reduced damage with 4 characters in front"... she might still desire permanent +100% attack and such from Warrior subclass or new attacks in plus disk subclasses.
Well, wait... Monk helps keep all her buffs up and slightly helps with concentrate PLUS her attacks, with both combined it's... actually about half of the value of Guardian's efficient concentration, with better other passives and Iron Mountain Charge. If you use Slash of Eternity it's about 2/3rds as good instead of half as good, but I'm still not certain if SoE is worth in most situations- the better DEF pierce is relevant though. 16% buffs per turn is enough for permanent 100% if a strategist is out, though, pretty considerable and really helps make Youmu a competitive team pick.
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Swordmaster's spirit is pretty useless IMO because you mudt spend 2 turns on it, you may not take damage, lose 20% health and the increase in damage is only 50%
And it sucks that both of kogasa's new skills can't be used in conjunction
Any other new skills?
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There are no other new skills announced in changelog. There was a few in the other plus trial from... january? Alice gets 40% def/mnd ignore (JEEZ!), Cirno deals a big irresistable speed debuff to all on death, Utsuho got buffed (Giga Flare is WAY better and Hell's Tokamak was buffed), Flandre was buffed for some reason too (Forbidden Fruits way better, Starbow Break ignores half of defense for some insane reason dear god), and Nazrin gets a choice between higher MAG or higher SPD, and also gets Extra Attack to help boost her into a relevant character (combined with her Byakuren skills she might be worth using now).
Youmu's new one may still be worth it because it allows her to take advantake of Meikyo Shisui, giving her a good chunk of passive buffs every single turn (Since it checks for max mp when the turn starts, not when it ends, you always get it if concentrating every other turn). The 20% hp damage isn't a big deal because A.Youmu's fairly bulky apart from mnd and B.She regens 10% hp every turn. She actually breaks even and it just "negates" the regen. Plus, three of her skills have massive mp costs that pretty much force her to concentrate or switch out after one cast, even well into the game.
However, it IS sad the damage boost is only 50%. Since it eats half her turns I was kinda hoping for more like 100%. You have to decide whether her passive buffs are strong enough to justify using Youmu at all; with Monk and a strategist giving her permanent +100%, maybe, but...
Once she gets her infinite corridor skill she's got a big damage boost (up to 110%) as her HP gets lower, so the self-damage actually becomes helpful, and she'll have a significant damage boost that again might help her become relevant. (Her other skill is +10% all stats if Yuyuko is on your team, even in backlines)
Hmmm... there's apparently THREE tiers of stat boosting in Plus Disk (adding presumably two more ontop of the two we have now- ______ Boost passives and gems) so it may be worth considering that the scale between characters with high/low base stats might become a lot different in Plus. People with good passives/formulas but somewhat lower base stats will likely catch up in usefulness or even surpass people who normally win from a somewhat higher base. (I'd say this means good things about offensive minoriko, but she also has pretty underwhelming infinite corridor skills... she seriously does have some potential though with her hp/mp regen and magic buff passive. Hmm, those crazy expensive subclass skills)
EDIT:Tested a couple skills.
Mari/Renko's Sealing Club passive STILL does not boost your stats. I wonder if 3peso even knows? It's not too hard to not notice the stats since you have to really look at numbers and compare them in order to tell.
However, Maribel's Ability to Meddle with Boundaries does make her buffs decay slower now. Previously I don't believe that skill worked, either. Still, Maribel could seriously use Sealing Club in order to try to be a legitimately good character- she's seriously borderline, with a lot of good skills and a nice stat layout, but not enough oomph in any area to actually be worth a party slot. Since Renko is a -great- tank (And maintennance ensures she will continue to get more amazing) sealing club is a stat boost you can get a ton of use out of... if only it worked!!
Hmm, Maribel could do really well with the new magic-user subclass I think, since she has Grand Incantation... the spells are very expensive, but incantation mostly does away with the cost issue, and Maribel could use more useful attack variety. Chaotic Quadruple Barrier is okay, but not that special vs. most bosses, and if they resist it she's only got some so-so support ability. This also goes for Patchouli if the subclass attacks are good enough- Patch even gets an mp cost reduction in the infinite corridor for all those expensive subclass skills. (She certainly doesn't need her innate ones any cheaper by that point...)
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Youmu's new one may still be worth it because it allows her to take advantake of Meikyo Shisui, giving her a good chunk of passive buffs every single turn (Since it checks for max mp when the turn starts, not when it ends, you always get it if concentrating every other turn). The 20% hp damage isn't a big deal because A.Youmu's fairly bulky apart from mnd and B.She regens 10% hp every turn. She actually breaks even and it just "negates" the regen. Plus, three of her skills have massive mp costs that pretty much force her to concentrate or switch out after one cast, even well into the game.
However, it IS sad the damage boost is only 50%. Since it eats half her turns I was kinda hoping for more like 100%. You have to decide whether her passive buffs are strong enough to justify using Youmu at all; with Monk and a strategist giving her permanent +100%, maybe, but...
Once she gets her infinite corridor skill she's got a big damage boost (up to 110%) as her HP gets lower, so the self-damage actually becomes helpful, and she'll have a significant damage boost that again might help her become relevant. (Her other skill is +10% all stats if Yuyuko is on your team, even in backlines)
My question is why Youmu needs to self damage herself at all just to do good damage. Honestly, Grand Incantation does a far better job with no HP loss and half the skill cost, so why this?
If anything, I would swap Dexterity out for a renamed Grand Incantation(Intense Focus would probably be a good name for it), put this as her post game skill instead of Swordsmaster's Spirit...
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Wielder of Hakurouken
Skill Cost: 20
Max Level: 2
Whenever the skill holder completes an action, add (SLv * 800) to the skill holder's timebar.
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...and add this along with it...
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Wielder of Rokukanken
Skill Cost: 20
Max Level: 2
When the user concentrates, gain a buff "Readied Stance". When the user attacks while having this buff, (SLv * 12)% damage of the attack is added after defenses are calculated, and the buff is removed.
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Of course, that's just my thought on the matter. Sorry if I'm annoying anyone with this.
As a side note, the Swordsmaster's spirit skill is making me think of the Swordmaster subclass, and looking at it, maybe it might fit Youmu?
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If Swordmaster and it's magic counterparts are just upgrades to the original warrior/sorceror classes as they look like they might be, Youmu could use that and still have a nice benefit to her ATK buff stat, which is her most important one. I still think Monk might be a better fit for her though with a DEF piercing skill, all buffs up to stack on meikyo shisui, and lower delays- especially since she won't get the attack buff on concentration turns in the other class. (It mostly evens out, but basically you maintain your atk buff whilst sacrificing everything else to gain a couple more attack skills. Not an entirely bad trade, but Youmu's got a diverse skillset to start with- unless you need to hit weakness.)
And honestly, if you aren't going to use meikyo shisui/swordmaster's spirit, there's not much point to using Youmu, because most other ATK-based characters will completely outclass her- the only thing Youmu has left at that point is 10% hp regen. You could use her like that anyway if you like and she'll work out okay enough, but there won't be any tactical benefit. This has been the issue with her from the start.
On the upside, her infinite corridor skill really might redeem her because her 20% self-damage turns directly into more damage on her hits. Yes, your ideas might work better if they were in the game, but we've got to deal with what Youmu actually has; and once you unlock "Extra damage as your HP goes down, up to +110% damage", that 20% selfdamage on attacking starts looking pretty helpful and Youmu starts looking like an actual decent party choice.
edit:Hmmm... Youmu has desperation too. 25% all stats up if she's 60% hp or below. So with her new skill, 80% or less HP would be sufficient to trigger her phase... that might be nice. She has high HP and good def, so she might be able to get away with it.
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Yes, your ideas might work better if they were in the game, but we've got to deal with what Youmu actually has; and once you unlock "Extra damage as your HP goes down, up to +110% damage", that 20% selfdamage on attacking starts looking pretty helpful and Youmu starts looking like an actual decent party choice.
...you're right. I really shouldn't be whining about what isn't there. Still, it bugs me that Youmu needs a skill from the infinite corridor to become a party member that's worth bothering with. It makes me wonder how many people will bother with Youmu at that point, though...
Edit: I didn't see your edit about Desperation until after I posted. Doesn't help that the preview doesn't tell me about edited post or show me that a post had been edited at all even after pressing the preview button...
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Yeah, it's sorta unfortunate, but it's at least a lot better from before when she was probably the most underwhelming party member in the game. With her new Swordmaster's Spirit skill or whatnot she should be usable until then at least, albeit not amazing.
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+50% fuggin mag from her new passive
How did you get 50%? That skill's max level is 3 and each level of sword gives 10%.
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if we had a character tier list, which ones would be the best and who the worsts? i was thinking of Tanks,Damage dealers and buffers/debuffers
Category:best/Worst
Tank:Meiling/Momiji
Damage:Nitori/Utsuho
Buffer:Byakuren/Eirin
cant give an opinion on debuffs, i dont tend to use those
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if we had a character tier list, which ones would be the best and who the worsts? i was thinking of Tanks,Damage dealers and buffers/debuffers
Category:best/Worst
Tank:Meiling/Momiji
Damage:Nitori/Utsuho
Buffer:Byakuren/Eirin
cant give an opinion on debuffs, i dont tend to use those
How would you tier this game with the subclasses anyway? Cause with subclasses it will be over 500 combinations.
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If they're going to increase Kogasa's damage against fear'd enemies, I do hope more bosses will be susceptible to fear (even if they lower her damage against feared enemies), nearly all the ones towards the main end game were immune to fear in my experience which made Kogasa just a decent attacker (Apart from her godlike ability to debuff mind). That being said, when the bosses could be feared wew she was pretty handy with that +2 mana and self stat buff on hit
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How would you tier this game with the subclasses anyway? Cause with subclasses it will be over 500 combinations.
By looking at their skill sets and how they can facilitate being a Tank, Damage Dealer(DPS, Nuker), Assist(Healer, Buffer), and Saboteur(Ailments, Debuffs). Sub Classes don't change what's in a character's main skill set, and some skills do very well for doing specific things, like Sheer Force(Damage Dealer, Saboteur), Accelerate(Damage Dealer, Buffer), Instant Attack(Damage Dealer, Healer), Eyes that Perceive Reality(Damage Dealer, Tank), and so on.
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What do you mean by saboteur?
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Keep also in mind that, unlike TH1, in TH2 there are "group skills" which means a char can't be judged alone. For example, when you consider Mystia alone she's average at best. However, Team9 as a group is among the best if not THE best group in TH2. It has high stats and balanced roles (heals, debuffs, varied offense, piercing attacks, etc). Other characters, like Yuyuko or Yuuka, could be good but suffer from the lack of such group skills (or, in the case of Maribel, she has it but it's not working <.< I REALLY hope it'll be fixed in the Plus Disk, along with Ability to Meddle with Boundaries)
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I am suck at this type of game
but
whatever
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What do you mean by saboteur?
Probably hexer
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How did you get 50%? That skill's max level is 3 and each level of sword gives 10%.
WHOOPS. Looked at the wrong skill. Still, it's a very powerful skill- +30% atk/mag or +36% def/mnd.
How would you tier this game with the subclasses anyway? Cause with subclasses it will be over 500 combinations.
Probably don't need to get subclass-specific for the list; Hina's obviously a debuffer queen whether or not she's a Hexer or something else. Also about the list, Meiling's not really a tank in LoT2... but she's an insanely effective bulky damage dealer. Top tier on that for sure! Utsuho is also significantly buffed in Plus, with a much stronger Giga Flare, better Tokamak, useful Infinite Corridor skills and better scaling postgame due to more stat increase items to help with her bulk in tandem with Fighting Spirit, unlimited overheating (corridor skill- no mp increase with overheat or self-buffs on nuclear reaction), and easier trigger on family passive. So, definitely not the worst anymore. The other bad egg, Youmu, has been buffed up too.
It's also worth keeping in mind glass cannons who you've been using as gamblers are nerfed because gambler was severely nerfed as well. Between Flan's personal buffs and the various glass cannon's infinite corridor skills, they're still good, though... but they're not quite as silly as before.
If they're going to increase Kogasa's damage against fear'd enemies, I do hope more bosses will be susceptible to fear
She has Arm-Twisting to force fear even on immune enemies, but her moves actually don't have terribly high fear infliction rates... it's a problem. Terror doesn't do much outside of activating some passives, so hopefully it'll be more widespread, yeah. That sick 200% damage with her infinite corridor skill is brutal, and her whole-frontline-HP-regen skill is buffed by terror too, I wonder how good that'll be?
(or, in the case of Maribel, she has it but it's not working <.< I REALLY hope it'll be fixed in the Plus Disk, along with Ability to Meddle with Boundaries)
I did testing yesterday and Meddling With Boundaries is functional in this version. I didn't test if it stacks with strategist... hmm, I should do that too sometime. HOWEVER, stat boost on sealing club still doesn't work; I wonder if 3peso even knows it's not working? (You can't tell unless you actively compare numbers to eachother, after all...)
Keep also in mind that, unlike TH1, in TH2 there are "group skills" which means a char can't be judged alone. For example, when you consider Mystia alone she's average at best.
This has always made it rather unfortunate to single out one character, like Rumia- I find Wriggle and Mystia too underwhelming to give a party slot to here, but Rumia's wonderful. Thankfully this is also alleviated by infinite corridor; all 9 team members get "Good Even By Myself" for +16% to all stats, all the time if no one learns Team 9, and everyone else with a family skill gets Proof of Kinship for half-strength stat boost for family members in the backrow. (There's also two new family skills in the corridor that don't get Proof of Kinship, but have rather high stat boosts instead... augh, like it wasn't hard enough to pick 12 people?!)
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Where can I get bottles of hyperspace? There are too many awesome items I can't craft just because I have no bottles of hyperspace
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What do you mean by saboteur?
Probably hexer
Sabotuer is actually a person who causes problems for enemies by hindering them, and status ailments and debuffs are the two ways to do so(Diva's a third way, but I'm not going to talk about that since that sort of saboteur can break most of the main game wide open). There is an older term that would probably click with people more, but I simply don't remember what that term is...
Where can I get bottles of hyperspace? There are too many awesome items I can't craft just because I have no bottles of hyperspace
The darkness stratum enemies should have them. I forget which one, though.
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Where can you find the darkness stratum enemies?
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Sabotuer is actually a person who causes problems for enemies by hindering them, and status ailments and debuffs are the two ways to do so(Diva's a third way, but I'm not going to talk about that since that sort of saboteur can break most of the main game wide open). There is an older term that would probably click with people more, but I simply don't remember what that term is...
Mezzer?
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Mezzer?
I was thinking of that term, but I didn't know whether that term covered status ailments as well, so...
Where can you find the darkness stratum enemies?
Floors 16 through 18. So if you haven't reached that part of the game yet, put it out of your mind until then.
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Specifically, the Void Assassin and Poisonous Sea Slug drop it at 4%+ rates. Which are, yeah, somewhere in 16~18F.
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Even though most of the discussion here is about post game and +disk, I have something cool! You can 1 shot the final Tenshi fight with a minimal grinding with Hina. You need max Pain Flow, max Role of the Nagashi-bina, Misfortune Reversal, max debuffs on Hina, (optimally) max mnd debuffs on Tenshi, and and silence. Hina should have around 4000 mag for this as well. https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL8WLbOJxSgUX_3vUuR-igZ_DvNLAKOeig&v=WtBz-TBAEHY here is a video of it done with alot of grinding (not mine). I did it on my last playthrough, but I did not think about scteenshots. D:
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She has Arm-Twisting to force fear even on immune enemies, but her moves actually don't have terribly high fear infliction rates... it's a problem. Terror doesn't do much outside of activating some passives, so hopefully it'll be more widespread, yeah. That sick 200% damage with her infinite corridor skill is brutal, and her whole-frontline-HP-regen skill is buffed by terror too, I wonder how good that'll be?
True but i found it unreliable at best, I know she can inflict fear on immune enemies via her passive skills, but does them being immune lower the terror duration? Everytime i managed to get fear on someone via kogasa's 2nd attack skill, i swear the terror wore off within having 1 more turn on Kogasa. And yeah, i think terror only decreases the enemies stats by 5%, not much but with the inflated stats of post game bosses, it helps more than in the main game i guess
Also, having time to play through endgame now that exams are over, how on earth do you beat the poisonous wasp's shadow? That thing moves faster than my diva aya with 600 speed and practically 2 shots komachi who has 30k health. Even gambler nitori with 17k attack does only 120k damage with super scope without buffs because poisonous wasp rolls over everyone I switch in. Atm I'm just lost on how to beat it so I'm grinding to 150 at least (avg party level of 120 right now, taking a bit to grind unfortunately)
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Also, having time to play through endgame now that exams are over, how on earth do you beat the poisonous wasp's shadow? That thing moves faster than my diva aya with 600 speed and practically 2 shots komachi who has 30k health. Even gambler nitori with 17k attack does only 120k damage with super scope without buffs because poisonous wasp rolls over everyone I switch in. Atm I'm just lost on how to beat it so I'm grinding to 150 at least (avg party level of 120 right now, taking a bit to grind unfortunately)
I believe you can instant death him with Yuyuko's Flawless Nirvana + Reisen's Intense Vertigo.
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Specifically, the Void Assassin and Poisonous Sea Slug drop it at 4%+ rates. Which are, yeah, somewhere in 16~18F.
Thanks a lot
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I believe you can instant death him with Yuyuko's Flawless Nirvana + Reisen's Intense Vertigo.
Isn't that the paralyzing wasp's shadow, bestiary shows that the poisonous wasp has 100 death resistance which should mean it's immune no?
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Isn't that the paralyzing wasp's shadow, bestiary shows that the poisonous wasp has 100 death resistance which should mean it's immune no?
Immunity is 200+ resist, actually.
100 is enough for Reisen to drop it to 80 by being there, making it possible for Yuyuko to one-shot it with some luck.
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Immunity is 200+ resist, actually.
100 is enough for Reisen to drop it to 80 by being there, making it possible for Yuyuko to one-shot it with some luck.
I believe you can instant death him with Yuyuko's Flawless Nirvana + Reisen's Intense Vertigo.
Okay wow yeah, just cheesed the wasp with that combo, didn't know you could do it like that, thanks
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The wasps are a pain in the neck without being anything special and I wouldn't feel bad about cheesing them. If you can get buffs/debuffs up high before anyone too important dies you can manage to slug out a win but it's painful.
But yeah, Kogasa's Terror really isn't as good as you'd think it would be, both in accuracy AND duration (And yeah, resistance I think still lowers the duration further- but Kogasa's isn't super long to start with). People like Parsee have much better Terror both in accuracy and duration, but she doesn't have Arm-Twisting... Toxicologist can't give you a Terror move either. Also, this is somewhat unrelated, but against bosses somewhat vulnerable to SHK, I think Kogasa's Arm-Twisting makes her a perfect choice for Guardian's Shield Bash; at max level it has a surprising 84% Shock accuracy and even buffs Kogasa's DEF and does a little damage if she's not tank-built for shocking. Karakasa Surprising Flash is only ~40%~ accuracy. I haven't tested it, but the combo sounds amazing on bosses that had any decent vulnerable to SHK to start with.
edit:Err, I think Arm-Twisting got renamed to Sheer Force a long time ago, but yeah
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Are the plus disk basement's bosses' recommended levels on the same level as the postgame general (ie. they're not really achievable without reducing members count or cheesing somehow)?
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A bit slow since I've been busy but thanks for the explanation! Really excited to include Koishi into my roster now.
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Hmm, I tested the "unlock all character" file to put in your save that was made for the previous trial, and... as far as I know all it does it trigger them to be in your party list in town, but this version it actually isn't stable anymore. The roster list now goes in order of
Shou/Mamizou/Futo/_______/_______/______/Koishi/Akyuu
; so that's likely the order the dev estimates you are most likely to obtain them in. The last two may as well be blank too like the middle three because they have defaulted out all-100 stats and skill lists crash the game. I guess we're just lucky they were all fully stable and leaked in the first version, although they may very well have been tweaked since then. (A certain one with renamed maintennance looked stupid op; maintennance AND normal, aka high base stats?)
Anyway, the first three have fully functional in-battle movesets and it's pretty safe to imply via context that those 3 are obtainable legitimately in this trial version, up from just Mamizou in the first trial. As far as I can tell, all the numbers/skills matches up with their original trial leak data. (Not that I'm looking at exact base stat comparisons, or anything.) However, now we can actually see how strong their skills -are-, and their delay.
In terms of sweet new leak data, now that the infinite corridor is out, those 3 plus disk characters should have infinite corridor moves in the game data, as well as the others being finalized (several characters had one without level data, and several more only had 1 when it seemed like the standard was 2+a family skill if applicable.)
ALSO, NOTABLY, THEY FINALLY SEEM TO HAVE FIXED COUNTER PASSIVES. They no longer annoyingly reset your ATB, which had made them too much of a PITA to ever use.
Okay, skill testing data. Mamizou data is way back in the thread with the other stuff, so it's like... page 15 or 16? Maybe 14? Along with the indepth descriptions on these two's stuff being on page 14.
Shou Toramaru
Attack: 109~117
Hungry Tiger: 269~291, 40% delay (245% Atk?) (HUNGRY TIGER WAS MISTRANSLATED. You either get a small heal or drain some of it's damage for using it. It does not increase max hp.)
Radiant Treasure Gun: 145~164, 44% delay (135% Atk? Alltarget) (increase drop/etc/money by 1.25x on defeated monsters)
Dazzling Gold: 252~289, 36% delay (120% Atk+120% Mag? Alltarget) (Ignore half MND, no def influence, does PAR+HVY)
Aura of Justice: 12% buff to all at lv1 with no counter bonus, 33% Delay - +13% buff to all at lv2, 14% lv3 etc - 3% stat increase per bishamonten counter?
You must take more than 0 damage to get a counter on Bishamonten's Rage.
Shou definitely looks to be a tank or otherwise support role character, although Dazzling Gold would be nice in random exploration fights, and obvious treasure gun is farming. However, she can get a +24% atk/mag boost when Rinnosuke is out, and she gets Byakuren's sutras, so if you really want offensive Shou, that could make it feasible as a quite bulky attack... but making it worthwhile is heavily dependant on those synergies. Honestly she doesn't look like amazing support either, though, especially compared to competition. Her main perk is just getting all of Byakuren's sutras, which is admittedly PRETTY POWERFUL, and the main thing that makes Shou look potentially good. DEF/MND bonus with Nazrin solidifies that you should be using a myouren team if you want to use Shou. Keep in mind Nazrin was buffed and has Extra Attack plus a passive for extra magic stat... as well as Koishi/Kokoro getting some sutra benefit from Byakuren. Team Myouren could work. Then again, Shou's boost from Nazrin is the ONLY synergy that does anything other than piggyback on byakuren out of the whole set of five- so you have zero obligation to take multiple members from "team myouren" other than Byakuren. Hmm.
Futo
Attack: 146~155
Skill 1: 268~274, 58% delay (180% Atk?) (can become alltarget w/ plate counter)
Skill 2: 335~362, 45% delay (230% Atk?) (inflicts status effects w/plate counter)
Skill 3: 256~267, 44% delay (175% Atk?) (alltarget)
Skill 4: 36% delay (alltarget, inflicts poison) It's the only spell that doesn't increase plate counter. Hard to gauge damage; 95% of stratum 1 enemies are weak to fire (this), and it's damage is heavily dependent on enemy defense. Felt like roughly 200% Atk on a higher def enemy, but also seemed more like 250% on another. Not sure how much was varying weakness.
She gets big bonuses from her plate counter depending on which passives you go for- up to 80% damage bonus for stockpiling, or 40% stable damage reduction which is pretty massive paired with up to 80% chance to avoid death for 16 tp. Synergies with Miko, who looked mega OP in the previous trial. Sounds pretty solid to me.
Bonus Mamizou mention; she's an HP-sponge-type glass cannon who can soak a hit purely off high max hp before having to retreat. She has lots of Shock and can imbue her attacks with any element to hit weakness on any boss- you just have to be willing to use a 86% delay normal attack until that element shows up on roulette, and it's yours for the rest of the fight.
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(http://puu.sh/slI2S/f2977fff26.png)
Unfortunately it looks like Nazrin doesn't have Extra Attack any more.
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checking kokoro skills again on past pages makes me think
she just looks like a gimmicky or weaker ran? there is too much text for me to understand what she is supposed to be
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checking kokoro skills again on past pages makes me think
she just looks like a gimmicky or weaker ran? there is too much text for me to understand what she is supposed to be
Emotion Mask seems to be meant as a field-wide stat manipulation tool rather than full party buffing like Ran though.
Double post: Is Meiling still a good bulky attacker if I'm not using anyone else from SDM? Or would there be a better choice then?
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no meiling is amazing even without any sdm members
All the other SDM members other than Flan only really work if you use the whole team, though. Remi might be good after infinite corridor with her draining attack, but I wouldn't touch Patchy otherwise and Sakuya is a little underwhelming without the extra stats (but she's got potential, with the full SDM she's probably great.). Patchy needs that extra bit of MND/MAG to actually pull her weight and not die to magic. She should scale better in postgame where her HP is very fixable, though.
About Ran vs. Kokoro:Emotion Mask isn't a buff/debuff like Ran and Hina, it's a flat out stat mod effect from what the description sounds like. So, irresistable and stacks ontop of everything else. Very interesting, but a little too mindbending for me so I don't think I'm gonna use her.
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Since I got a friend started on LoT2 and now am getting endlessly bombarded with discussion, I decided to give it another whirl. I'm not nearly as familiar with this game as I am with the first game though, so I'd like to ask for some comments on the (draft of the) team I will be using:
Reimu
Keine
Meiling
Kasen
Byakuren
Nitori
Yuuka
Suika
Mokou
Reisen
Eirin
Kaguya
Mostly since I'm so used to the "supporting high delay nukes with switch" tactics (which is prevalent on 1, and also the basis of what I did on the only complete-to-end-of-main-game run), I wanted to try to use bulky, stay-in attackers this time. I haven't really thought about subclasses yet since the team composition isn't set in stone. Is there anything that can be improved with the setup? (I'm not really hang up on anyone on the team, well besides Byakuren but I can't see her not being a great addition to any team that can be devised anyways, even with the plus disk trial nerfs)
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Looks like a very solid team to me, actually. The only thing I'd say is that the farther you get in the game, the more useful it is to have Hina around. Reisen should be a perfectly fine substitute for a good while (and sort of in general) but you really just can't replace Hina, in the end. I'd compare her to LoT1 Meiling/Reimu; any party greatly desires her presence no matter who else you take.
But you should be totally fine without her until Plus Disk. Except for the 3 orb boss, maybe... >.> She's really nice there since 3 targets. And Plus Disk balance seems to be permanently assuming you have Hina.
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Is not having Hina that bad for postgame even if I decide to screw the challenge levels? By then I can just kill Murakumo for orbs and whatnot, right?
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Mostly since I'm so used to the "supporting high delay nukes with switch" tactics (which is prevalent on 1, and also the basis of what I did on the only complete-to-end-of-main-game run), I wanted to try to use bulky, stay-in attackers this time. I haven't really thought about subclasses yet since the team composition isn't set in stone. Is there anything that can be improved with the setup? (I'm not really hang up on anyone on the team, well besides Byakuren but I can't see her not being a great addition to any team that can be devised anyways, even with the plus disk trial nerfs)
If you're looking for stay in attackers, a combo I found that worked surprisingly well would be Yuuka/Kogasa (Umbrella duo!). Kogasa's Ghost story attack practically always debuffs mind (Which when maxed can take the debuff straight to roughly -50%) thanks to sheer force and since it's her main attacking skill, against bosses, their mind will nearly always be debuffed. This allows Yuuka to use her flower shot to self buff herself up along with majesty while still dealing decent damage. If you can apply terror on the enemy as well, Kogasa can stay in longer thanks to her troubled forgotten item passive which also self buffs herself along with regaining two mana per attack plus an additional 5% stat debuff. Since Kasen is in your draft, she also helps apply terror so Kogasa doesn't have to apply it herself all the time as well
Regarding your roster, unless you plan to make Eirin a healer subclass to make the most of her overheals, I'd recommend Minoriko over Eirin. Without the healer subclass, I've found Eirin to be inferior to Minoriko in my experience. She has a set 50% heal which is actually a hindrance towards the late game and healing allies that doesn't have a large hp pool. Her attacks while benefitting from her passive People from the moon has more or less the same mag modifier as Minoriko except it has nearly twice as long as a delay Minoriko's single attack skill and still has a larger delay than her multi targeting skill which is also accentuated by the fact that Minoriko also has a faster speed growth. Regarding Eirin's advantage of ignoring defense over Minoriko, you're better off using Kaguya to bypass their defense and using healers to keep her alive as she won't be able to tank too many hits. Outside of their skills though, Eirin is still by far a lot bulkier than Minoriko in general (Minoriko however, is excellent against mind only targeting enemies) therefore their play styles might be different. While Minoriko would be more of a switch in heal switch out type of character which works well with her passives, Eirin can just tank up the hits. Though this is just my insight into using Minoriko or Eirin, others might have a different opinion based on their experiences
Of course, this is only regarding Bosses, not random encounters.
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Is not having Hina that bad for postgame even if I decide to screw the challenge levels? By then I can just kill Murakumo for orbs and whatnot, right?
I'd say you can manage without her if Serela is referring to her debuff capabilities. I think she is absolutely a great unit but I never actually used her for the debuff everything card. Rather I used her for the fire spell and pain flow in addition to her tankiness compared to other mages. Letting others like Reisen cover debuffs worked out fine for me even in post-game so you won't be totally screwed or anything if you decide not to use her.
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Regarding Meiling.
I'm surprised to see people saying that Meiling is god tier in LoT2, thinking that she's just the same old tank as she was in LoT1. And so I never used her much.
Please elaborate more about this.
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Why the Eirin hate? First of all, Eirin is -incredible- if you do sub her as healer. The overhealing is so real. There's a really big reason they nerfed Healer's heal spell in Plus disk. Eirin is like, broken-tier powerful before that nerf. BROKEN. TIER. HP bars scrolling -off the screen-.
And, uh... unless you go all-in on Minoriko's offense with Sorceror so she can upkeep really high MAG buffs with her passive (and you probably aren't doing this), Eirin is a WAY better attacker o.O; Eirin's MAG growth is much higher and ignoring half MND is -really- big in this game, along with having better element variety. Similar MAG modifiers... 'cept Eirin has 13 base mag instead of a measly 9.
Minoriko's support is really meh after earlygame anyway. I'd never recommend using her for single-target heals and buffs further into the game. If you really want to she can be made into a better-than-expected magical attacker to take advantage of her useful passive skills (Especially since there's so many mag boosters in plus disk- it might not actually be a bad idea) with support on the side, but there's just so many better ways to get healing/buffing.
With her second-cheapest-in-game Library costs, fast level rate, collossal MP regen and very useful passives (That passive mag party buff!), Minoriko does have dubious but real potential for magical assault once enough options to raise her base MAG are open, but unless you're going all in like that, Eirin >>>>>>> Minoriko.
Regarding Meiling.
Meiling's Mountain Breaker has a simply absurd damage formula- cheap cost, nice delay, REALLY high attack influence, and ignores half defense. When the rebal patch (1.2??) came out they also buffed Meiling's ATK base by like... a lot. Suddenly she got crazy strong. Ontop of that she has solid defenses and really high HP, and, guess what... a passive that reduces all taken damage by 32% if she's not in the far left slot. Wow. She's just crazy amazing. I can leave her out almost all the time that she has the MP to keep attacking, and even Brilliant Light Bullet can be useful sometimes because it's delay is incredibly low.
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I think it's more due to the point that Mountain Breaker deals a ridiculous amount of damage (320% - 40%) while still having a reasonable delay, while Brilliant Light Gem does decent damage for 20% dela. Meiling's ATK growth of 12.8 is very respectable as well. In Rev.D she even got a skill that basically grants her an omnipresent 10% damage buff that can be further raised if she stops to heal or switch a character.
And of course I'm going to run Healer on Eirin. Is there a single reason why one wouldn't run Healer on Eirin? :V I mean sure if I want to build her for all out damage something else might work better but that's just throwing good money after bad.
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Why the Eirin hate? First of all, Eirin is -incredible- if you do sub her as healer. The overhealing is so real. There's a really big reason they nerfed Healer's heal spell in Plus disk. Eirin is like, broken-tier powerful before that nerf. BROKEN. TIER. HP bars scrolling -off the screen-.
And, uh... unless you go all-in on Minoriko's offense with Sorceror so she can upkeep really high MAG buffs with her passive (and you probably aren't doing this), Eirin is a WAY better attacker o.O; Eirin's MAG growth is much higher and ignoring half MND is -really- big in this game, along with having better element variety. Similar MAG modifiers... 'cept Eirin has 13 base mag instead of a measly 9.
Minoriko's support is really meh after earlygame anyway. I'd never recommend using her for single-target heals and buffs further into the game. If you really want to she can be made into a better-than-expected magical attacker to take advantage of her useful passive skills (Especially since there's so many mag boosters in plus disk- it might not actually be a bad idea) with support on the side, but there's just so many better ways to get healing/buffing.
Whoa whoa whoa, I'm not hating on Eirin though I guess it could seem like that, I'm just saying if Regal chooses not to sub Eirin as a healer, I'd recommend Minoriko over Eirin based on a support perspective. Also, I guess you're right regarding Eirin's attack, I just never used Eirin for attacking which is probably why I'm underestimating her mnd ignore which would be much more valuable than any damage Minoriko could do post game.
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Hmm.
Still weirded out by the notion of 5 sets of purchasable stat boost methods through the Infinite Gem shop Akyuu has in Plus Disk. This assumably means people's base stats can be boosted by 10; potentially everyone's if you grind enough for it, but only time will tell how much effort it takes to get these things. That's on the level of giving Patchouli as much DEF as Tenshi starts with. Of course, standards for stats might be a lot higher too as a result- but think about it, that's Patchouli having half Tenshi's DEF instead of 1/6th. The scale is different.
Suddenly base stats don't matter much if you're willing to put in effort; the key factor is how good their passives and move formulas are. People who can get a high %age stat boost from passives (team skills were buffed too after corridor!) or have fast level/cheap library costs start coming out ahead. Fighting Spirit and strong team skills or other synergies start looking really good; Tenshi run with Iku could be a fabulous bulky attacker with the +40% atk and her useful effects, powerful formulas. SDM, Earth Spirits, Yakumo Family all start looking exciting- a Chen who can take a hit? Flan and Satori's high HP and gambler nerfed into the ground means they could actually be kinda -tanky- with all that max HP! Minoriko running magic build starts looking not-gimmick, even.
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Well, I can't find any concrete numbers on the infinity shop items, but the normal boost skills are only 0.2x per level, so if the new gems have the same number as the old gems, and each boost upgrade adds the same value as the first boost's level, then you'd get +7 base stats in total, not +10. And we don't know how they would work with Rinnosuke yet because atwiki reports that second boost can't overwrite high boost :ohdear: Maybe that will get changed; maybe not (if not then Rinnosuke is going to lose a LOT of endgame potential).
Double Post: It seems that Prayer of Recovery is now around the neighborhood of 35%(ATK+MAG). Quite a nerf it ate, though Eirin can still easily double the max HP of most characters who didn't invest much in it.
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Minoriko is great in the post game. She's a giant MP battery on top of powerful heals and DEF/MND buffs if you give her the Magician subclass. I build all my supports to be able to take some level of beating so Minoriko could reasonably stay in and continue healing too if I wanted her to. I generally switch her out almost right away though, because Desire to Rest is so powerful. Its why Kaguya is just so insane. Desire to Rest supports her switch in, nuke with Hourai Barrage, switch out playstyle so much. And unless they changed things, Kaguya doesn't even have to be switched to the backline for Desire to Rest to proc. You can just fiddle with her position in the frontline if you have free turns to do so.
People can already grind out base stats by giving everyone +10 gem boosts on each stat. You just farm the final boss of the main game (not the post game version if you can help it) at challenge level and profit. I don't think much will change though. That said, I haven't really looked at the changes in detail since they were first datamined.
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Desire to Rest supports her switch in, nuke with Hourai Barrage, switch out playstyle so much. And unless they changed things, Kaguya doesn't even have to be switched to the backline for Desire to Rest to proc. You can just fiddle with her position in the frontline if you have free turns to do so.
... Wow I wasn't aware of this, always used Chen/Momiji to switch Kaguya out and in.
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... Wow I wasn't aware of this, always used Chen/Momiji to switch Kaguya out and in.
Using Instant Attackers to switch someone out and in can still be superior because it puts that character at 7500 instead of whatever they were at before.
Unrelated: I still can't fathom why the magatama and mirror midbosses are so much harder than the climatic conflict on 12F.
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Well, I can't find any concrete numbers on the infinity shop items, but the normal boost skills are only 0.2x per level
Oh whoops. :V Got it mixed up with gems and thought they were both +1.0 total at max. This is what happens when you haven't played in forever. +7 is still a lot, though, esp. with the items purchasable and farmable as opposed to the +3 that mooooost of your characters can't benefit from right now; def/mnd gems especially are mega rare...
Minoriko is great in the post game. She's a giant MP battery on top of powerful heals and DEF/MND buffs if you give her the Magician subclass.
This makes her somewhat viable as long-term support, but the only thing I even like about Magician is the +1 mp/turn and Magic Circuit; Magic Transfer doesn't seem worth the time/cost it takes to cast it. If the delay was lower it could be neat, but eh. As for the buffs/heals, even with the decent delay, I'd much rather just use another out of Reimu/Yukari/Rumia/Maribel and sub them magician for the multitarget versions. Singletargets just aren't worth an entire party slot (Dear god kicking people out to make my plus disk party will SUCK!) when you already have so many MT heal options and powerful buffers like Byakuren and Renko.
If you like Magic Transfer though, I can't deny, Minoriko's got insane MP flow.
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Well, I can't find any concrete numbers on the infinity shop items, but the normal boost skills are only 0.2x per level, so if the new gems have the same number as the old gems, and each boost upgrade adds the same value as the first boost's level, then you'd get +7 base stats in total, not +10. And we don't know how they would work with Rinnosuke yet because atwiki reports that second boost can't overwrite high boost :ohdear: Maybe that will get changed; maybe not (if not then Rinnosuke is going to lose a LOT of endgame potential).
I don't think that each boost strengthens by the same value, if the descriptions are any indication. That could mean that all of the second level boosts are in fact High Boosts, which would explain why it can't overwrite it...
Double Post: It seems that Prayer of Recovery is now around the neighborhood of 35%(ATK+MAG). Quite a nerf it ate, though Eirin can still easily double the max HP of most characters who didn't invest much in it.
Better 35% than 30% or 33%.
Minoriko is great in the post game. She's a giant MP battery on top of powerful heals and DEF/MND buffs if you give her the Magician subclass. I build all my supports to be able to take some level of beating so Minoriko could reasonably stay in and continue healing too if I wanted her to. I generally switch her out almost right away though, because Desire to Rest is so powerful. Its why Kaguya is just so insane. Desire to Rest supports her switch in, nuke with Hourai Barrage, switch out playstyle so much. And unless they changed things, Kaguya doesn't even have to be switched to the backline for Desire to Rest to proc. You can just fiddle with her position in the frontline if you have free turns to do so.
Glad to hear that Mino's good for healing and all that...
...wait, did I just hear you right? Desire to Rest doesn't need to switch her to the back to activate? That sounds like the same thing that happens with Satori and her Small MP Recovery skill. Hm...
...coould that sort of thing also work with Suwako's Native God of Earth? Because that would be nuts if it did work that way.
People can already grind out base stats by giving everyone +10 gem boosts on each stat. You just farm the final boss of the main game (not the post game version if you can help it) at challenge level and profit. I don't think much will change though. That said, I haven't really looked at the changes in detail since they were first datamined.
...how high are the stat boosts from the gems again? I might want to know to see if this can help some of the characters with their low stats...
Oh, by the by, speaking of Rinnosuke, I just thought of something for the guy. A post-game skill...
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Advanced Knowledge of Healing and Tactics
Skill cost: 30
Max Level:1
First Aid and Battle Command can now affect all front-line allies.
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Sorry for my dreaming up of skills that aren't in the game, but I had to put this up while I had the thought of it in my head. What do you guys think of this one, if I can ask?
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Gems are 0.2 per.
Double post: Byakuren's sutra sills were nerfed to 12% per turn from 14% - or so did the description say, but she's still actually getting 14% per turn :V
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They're trying to bring Byakuren down to reasonable, but with how Duplicating Scroll works now and the fact that they gave her a skill for 3 mp regen per turn, she's still fairly crazy. You almost never have to stop casting her buff now and it'll still bring peopl eup to max if they have a half-decent amount of buff to start with.
But she'll be a little less insane if she needs -some- buff upkeep herself. Still. With Infinite Mana, she's not gonna stop being the buff queen.
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Using Instant Attackers to switch someone out and in can still be superior because it puts that character at 7500 instead of whatever they were at before.
Unrelated: I still can't fathom why the magatama and mirror midbosses are so much harder than the climatic conflict on 12F.
Boss!Tenshi is like that mid game battle that all the drama has been built up for, think of magus from chrono trigger. And you are more limited item/party member wise, i imagine they couldnt make it too hard so you could win with a limited roster
Meanwhile magatama and shield are the last enemies standing before ame no murakumo himself, you have most of the roster and broken items by that time, NOW they can put any bullcrap abilities on those. at least thats how i see it
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With Infinite Mana, she's not gonna stop being the buff queen.
With Infinite Mana, she could also spam Skanda's Legs and never run out, but that's another matter entirely.
I'm trying to remember, what's the current version of the Myouren Temple Personnel skill do again? Since Nazrin and Shou have it and all.
Edit: Would it be wise of me to consider starting a new thread at this point?
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Byakuren is a good attacker, but the thing there is, there's a -lot- of good attackers, so it's not a particularly interesting option unless you just don't super care about Byakuren's Duplicating Chant skill. And being able to cast an attack for a long time isn't super special anyway. The current version gives them the benefits of all of Byakuren's stat buff and HP regen sutras AFAIK; this would not include the new infinite mana or her element resist/ailment resist sutras, I think. Two of the plus disk characters also have one that gives them one third of Byakuren's sutras.
Getting the first post ready for a new thread in notepad or something would probably be a good idea (considering it's quite the monolith at this point), but it doesn't need to start quite yet.
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New Myouren Personnel: When user receives a turn while both user and Byakuren are on the front line, the user receives all of Byakuren's learned buff and HP recovery sutra scroll effects.
Speaking of Infinite Mana, looks like those three skills are meant to be endless corridor skills after all, because on my file right now Byakuren doesn't have it learned. (Either that or I was hallucinating back when I was looking at their in-game skill lists in rec.C').
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Buddhists confirmed OP :v
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Not as OP as when Nazrin could get Byakuren's current buff in its entirety whenever she gets a turn.
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Buddhists confirmed OP :v
Not as OP as when Nazrin could get Byakuren's current buff in its entirety whenever she gets a turn.
Taoist leader is more OP by far, I'll say that much.
Two of the plus disk characters also have one that gives them one third of Byakuren's sutras.
If my calculations are correct, then they would gain a 4% or 5% buff in all five stats and 4.66% HP regen each turn, which is only slightly better than Monk's Body Revitalization skill.
Also, as a side note, if it turns out that the MP regen is able to transfer via those skills, then Kokoro and Koishi would gain 1 MP a turn, while Shou and Nazrin would gain 3 MP a turn. 3 MP is enough for Nazrin to fire off her spells without losing any MP, and Shou probably won't become too strong with this up, so I kind of think that it might be possible for it to happen(even if the text says otherwise), especially if Infinite Mana is for Endless Corridor...
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Boss!Tenshi is like that mid game battle that all the drama has been built up for, think of magus from chrono trigger. And you are more limited item/party member wise, i imagine they couldnt make it too hard so you could win with a limited roster
Meanwhile magatama and shield are the last enemies standing before ame no murakumo himself, you have most of the roster and broken items by that time, NOW they can put any bullcrap abilities on those. at least thats how i see it
Regal was talking about the Mirror and Magatama on floor 12, not the ones on floor 20.
And Magic Transfer is fine. Pop in, do whatever healing / buffing you need, Magic Transfer, get the tank to switch her out. For me, Komachi's not doing a whole lot aside from occasionally trying to land Narrow Confines of Avici / casting emergency heals and neither is Byakuren when everyone's mostly buffed up so I tend to have a lot of people ready for switching.
Sure, you can use multi target DEF/MND buffers but the fact of the matter is, some characters take turns faster than others, thus buffs run out faster for them. Having good single target buffers is still handy. As it stands though, Renko is doing all the buffing I need at the beginning of the fight.
Komachi, Byakuren, Aya, Renko
Aya casts Divine Grandson's Advent (henceforth referred to as DGA) on Renko
Renko uses Charge
Aya generally gets another turn before the boss takes their turn, thanks to the SPD buff from Renko and how I've built Aya so she casts DGA on Renko again for a second round of Charge. This bit is even more consistent if Raid Maneuver from Strategist procs on anyone other than Aya.
If Komachi or Byakuren gets it, Aya still casts DGA on Renko, but instead of relying on Aya getting a second turn before the boss, they can swap Renko out and back in for another Charge cast. If Renko gets it, GG Aya uses her SPD buff to buff herself, Renko casts Charge, Aya casts DGA on Renko, Byakuren swaps Renko out, Komachi swaps someone in to receive god buffs (because my Byakuren is faster than Komachi)
Everyone is now capped out in buffs and Byakuren can start handing out god buffs instantly. I now slowly swap in all my characters as needed to pass the god buffs around before pummeling the boss.
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Taoist leader is more OP by far, I'll say that much.
I highly agree with that!
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Hello all, question: right now I'm at lvl 260-280 with most of my chars in TH2. Is this good enough for the Plus Disk or should I level some more? I wouldn't have problems reaching even lvl 350 or 400, but I suspect I might end up being overlevelled, which is not too fun in itself. Until then, I guess I can farm the final boss for gems.
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Hello all, question: right now I'm at lvl 260-280 with most of my chars in TH2. Is this good enough for the Plus Disk or should I level some more? I wouldn't have problems reaching even lvl 350 or 400, but I suspect I might end up being overlevelled, which is not too fun in itself. Until then, I guess I can farm the final boss for gems.
if you overlevelled you can just level your characters down
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Pretty sure you are overlevelled for at least the beginning, since it was fine to play the trial with something around 200-220, not sure about the exact level anymore.
If there will be a spike in difficulty that makes you grind for levels, no one knows, but I'm expecting the grind to be held at a minimum and have the endless corridor for all our grinding-desires.
If it's anything like the first game, then you will need level 500~ for the very last boss, but there's no way to tell if you will gain those levels naturally or not.
I'd say it's best to not level too much, just because you can always do so later when it's time, but overlevelling now will kill the fun unless you're into that or are fine with downleveling for self-imposed challenges.
Of course resetting library points will be a bit more complicated too.
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It seems that in rev.D that using the Rest command doesn't just expend 2 TP to gain some MP; it makes every character continue to expend TP for MP until they run out of TP or get full MP...
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It seems that in rev.D that using the Rest command doesn't just expend 2 TP to gain some MP; it makes every character continue to expend TP for MP until they run out of TP or get full MP...
From my recollection, it's been like that even in the base Labyrinth of Touhou 2 game.
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I'm done with the main game, but since I don't know anything the postgame from even the product version, I'd like to ask about the rough ordering I should be doing things, and roughly what level should I be at for them.
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Hmm, it's been awhile. Let's see.
- V2 bosses. These scale up in level/power similarly to how they were in the maingame, aka the ones on the first stratum are the weakest, etc. I think they go from like 105 to 150ish? You need to kill some of these in order to get past rocks in various places, in any case. (edit:It caps at 136 but the v2 dark magatama is total BS unless you have a full party of only def/mnd ignoring attackers- you'll probably need 150+ to beat that)
- Boss Rush. There's a v2 of it, but obviously that's for later. I don't recall the level you should need for it, but keep in mind you have to face the 3 orbs near the end, at the least... I don't recall if you have to redo the final boss. It's all in one battle unlike LoT1 which had talk scenes inbetween fights. As expected, round 1 isn't very hard, but round 2...
- Extra floor sections starting from where you fought Tenshi in the desert stratum iirc? You can start tackling this around lv130 but extra levels don't hurt; especially if you'd like to recruit Renko/Mari first. This will lead to the 4 postgame bosses, which are your main goal.
- The three "weird" bosses, to unlock Maribel/Renko. The first one can be -incredibly- tough or fairly doable depending on your party comp, but in any case, the later two require beating the first and finishing all of the v2 bosses first, so you'll be able to beat them before they're even accessible. Renko is in the inaccessible area of 16f after, and after that, Maribel is close to the top corner of 11f.
For the most part you should grind on 20f depths until you're at least lv130 and then maybe start checking things out, but extra really doesn't hurt. You need to get closer to 180 to finish everything, but of course, you get a good chunk of levels exploring the extra floor sections too. I just went ahead and ground on 20F until I was able to beat all the V2s and the weird bosses for renko/mari.
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I apologize for interrupting everyone, but I have started a new thread for the sake of not hitting 1000 posts here...
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20421.0.html
Again, sorry for jumping on this a bit early...