Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: WHMZakeri on September 04, 2014, 05:31:20 PM

Title: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 04, 2014, 05:31:20 PM
12 people enter the bar, conversing with each other over rumors of the new Rhythm Mafia. You are greeted by the Barista, when suddenly the lights shut off. Within a beat, the light turn back on, and sitting it a pool of blood and coffee is the kindly young dog you all knew and loved.

Quote from: Sample Role PM
You are the Barista

You are a simple and fun loving dog who opened a bar for people to take a break from the hard rhythms of life and relax with a nice, tasty beverage, warm or cool. You got to know everyone personally, and know each of the rhythms that they possess, which allows you to see the rhythm of life. This is why you were the first target on the Rhythm Mafia's list.
You are already dead, and As a result, you have no special powers.

You win when all threats to town have been removed.

Suddenly, the security system shuts down. You are all acutely aware that an entire Chord of Mafia are within the building, and as the security does not allow anyone to leave for at least two measures, it's up to the people within to figure out the culprits.

Can you be the ones to Beat the Beat Rhythm Paradise?

===
Rules
===
1. Have fun. The Flavor is designed to be basically meaningless. And also based on what I learned about music from reading supplemental dialogs in the RH games.
2. Beat phase will last 48 hours for the first beat, and 72 for all subsequent beats. Off-beat phase will last 24 hours.
3. Please vote for who you want lynched each beat phase. You are expected to vote in accordance to your win condition, but I will not enforce it.
4. You may unvote at any time. You are not required to unvote if you wish to vote another person.
5. If there is no majority vote, there will be no lynch. You may choose not to lynch as many times as you wish per game.
6. You must vote at least once per beat phase. If you do not, you will be considered for replacement or modkill, depending on how long the beat phase lasted and if you have informed me of expected drops in activity.
6b. If you actively vote no-lynch, it will be counted as a vote for the purposes of this rule.
7. You may talk during twilight Until I return. Even the lynched person may continue to discuss the game. You may not speak during the Off-beat phase. The Dead may only post once, and that post must not contain any game related information. If your role allows you to speak outside of the thread, you will be provided with a quicktopic to do so in.
8. No editing posts, no screenshots, no word for word copy and pasting of role PMs etc.
9. Any personal claims to break the rules will be treated as if they are breaking the rules.
10. There is no restriction on Night Actions. If you have more than one, you may use all of them. This includes the mafia nightkill.

The Pulsing Beat:
1. Dorian
2. Affinity
3. Sky_Paladin
11. Lexicat
12. CF7 Serela

The long drawn out line and solid almost-annoying if it weren't sorrowful beep:
0. Zakeri -Barista, Vanilla Townie
9. Raikaria -
Reporter, Mafia Goon
8. BT -
Scientist of Love Lab, Town Matchmaker
5. Bardiche -
Mandrill, Mafia Goon
4. Huhwhat -
Cheer Reader, Vanilla Townie
6. Schezo -
Radical Monkey, Vanilla Townie
7. ActionDan -
Karate Joe, Vanilla Townie
10. Moridin84 -
SwitchStepper, Mafia Insomniac

Useful Links:
End of Day One (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125960.html#msg1125960)
Begining of Day Two (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126204.html#msg1126204)
End of Day Two (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127010.html#msg1127010)
Begining of Day Three (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127232.html#msg1127232)
End of Day Three (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127813.html#msg1127813)



Confirmation phase will end when everyone who matters has confirmed.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Bardiche on September 04, 2014, 05:44:27 PM
Upupupu. Looks like you guys were beaten by me.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: BT on September 04, 2014, 05:49:16 PM
Love this theme. Music for life.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Schezo on September 04, 2014, 05:54:17 PM
It's wonderful
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: CF7 on September 04, 2014, 06:09:46 PM
*Bang*
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Moridin on September 04, 2014, 07:00:56 PM
/confirm

So apparently it's NIGHT 0.

Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuun.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Affinity on September 04, 2014, 07:14:49 PM
hey
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Raikaria on September 04, 2014, 07:59:52 PM
/confirm

So apparently it's NIGHT 0.

Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuun.

Not this again. Actiondan's gonna start the game post restricted isn't he?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: ActionDan on September 04, 2014, 09:03:40 PM
!

Maybe
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Dorian White on September 04, 2014, 09:43:34 PM
They killed the guy dog that provided coffee? Bloody bastards!
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 04, 2014, 10:58:52 PM
Let's everybody go!
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 04, 2014, 11:12:01 PM
Oh my God.  I can't live without coffee. 

/confirm to this bleak hopeless world.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Lexicat on September 05, 2014, 12:11:15 AM
/conform
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 05, 2014, 12:15:22 AM
As everyone has confirmed, It is now official Day One.

You have until Saturday, September 6th (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140906T1915&p0=2374&msg=Day+one+End) to decide on a lynch.
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to reach majority.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Schezo on September 05, 2014, 12:26:01 AM
no..  your other avi was cuter.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 12:49:27 AM
##Vote: ActionDan
Dan should be wagoned ASAP so he's constantly under the threat of lynch if he doesn't post content.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 12:50:01 AM
schezo sheep me
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Dorian White on September 05, 2014, 12:51:09 AM
no..  your other avi was cuter.
I could say the same about you.

##Vote: Schezo
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 05, 2014, 12:53:02 AM
##Vote: Action Dan
Only if you vote who I want later.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 12:54:02 AM
I will vote who you want to vote later if your vote is on the person I want to vote
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 05, 2014, 01:12:16 AM
Wait a moment, was the Dan wagon a serious suggestion?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 05, 2014, 01:12:33 AM
that sounds legit to me. 
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 05, 2014, 01:16:39 AM
##Vote Raikaria

"content"
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 05, 2014, 01:17:15 AM
now get those votes off me, they scare me, I don't want to die
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 05, 2014, 01:50:31 AM
Mhmm, I'm still against any kind of policy by default, even if this case is tempting, so I'll take my time see what the guy is doing before I reconsider the idea.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 01:58:54 AM
I am a day cop that can only target people who post "content", Dan is scum, looks like this game's in the bag boys...........

Dorian why is serious voting on policy so bad you'd rather jokevote, which is comparatively useless? What better option is there to voting Dan? Are Schezo and I questionable for pushing the policy?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 05, 2014, 02:02:38 AM
Vote: Prims

Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 05, 2014, 02:13:27 AM
I am a day cop that can only target people who post "content", Dan is scum, looks like this game's in the bag boys...........

Dorian why is serious voting on policy so bad you'd rather jokevote, which is comparatively useless? What better option is there to voting Dan? Are Schezo and I questionable for pushing the policy?
Did you just dreamed that role and result or is it me who's dreaming you claim?
Also, a vote on Dan for being Dan is as useless as a vote for Schezo for having a muscle-shirt-catboy-abomination-avatar, cause the reason is not alignment implicative.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 02:24:02 AM
aside from not being true - policy votes are serious votes that can be discussed, your example isn't - that doesn't answer question 3, go do that please
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 02:25:31 AM
basically what I'm trying to get at is: do you have a real problem with this policy, or are you just bringing it up for the sake of bringing it up, or what
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 05, 2014, 02:33:52 AM
ActionDan: (2) Prims, Schezo
Raikaria: (1) ActionDan
Prims: (1) Lexicat

Not voting:
Everyone else.

7 Votes needed for Majority
45:40 hours left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140906T1915&p0=2374&msg=Day+one+End)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 05, 2014, 02:42:20 AM
basically what I'm trying to get at is: do you have a real problem with this policy, or are you just bringing it up for the sake of bringing it up, or what
Well, it could be scum trying to establish a votepark wagon or town putting pressure on Dan for the reason you gave, I could see it go both ways right now.
Now my turn, if  policy votes are so serious that you can discuss them, then am I scum for disagreeing with you or not?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 05, 2014, 02:44:09 AM
*I mean "either way" not both.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 05, 2014, 02:48:37 AM
People without their votes on Prims should reconsider their life choices. People with their votes on Prims are awesome cats who deserve head-scratches.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 03:03:10 AM
Dorian, disagreeing with me isn't scummy but your posts have been very wishy-washy, like "why did you post this" wishy-washy. Was hoping your answers would be more transparent; as is though I'm leaning town with weak footing. Basically, work with me here.

LLD, post a case so I can decide if you're town playing mafiascum and not Mafia or if I'm lynching you today.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 05, 2014, 03:11:02 AM
You want a case? You're scum. There you go, case compiled.

Not satisfied? I'm not really bothered. If you wanna vote me, you should just do it instead of threatening to do it.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 05, 2014, 03:11:50 AM
Or, in the immortal words of UK:

GUT! >=D
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 05, 2014, 03:14:50 AM
I'd actually be inclined to go with LLD over not going with LLD on this one.

But Raikaria is scum I bet.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 05, 2014, 03:18:55 AM
I'd actually be inclined to go with LLD over not going with LLD on this one.

But Raikaria is scum I bet.

This player has not posted anything since Day 1 begun. Why do you say this?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 05, 2014, 03:20:35 AM
Dorian, disagreeing with me isn't scummy but your posts have been very wishy-washy, like "why did you post this" wishy-washy. Was hoping your answers would be more transparent; as is though I'm leaning town with weak footing. Basically, work with me here.
...
I'm sorry if I disappoint you but if you think that I can draw a clear conclusion out of your whimsical gambit right now, then you talk with the wrong one.^^;

Good night
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 03:23:26 AM
cyberbullying is bad.

##Vote; Prims
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 05, 2014, 03:26:17 AM
This player has not posted anything since Day 1 begun. Why do you say this?

I'm using that confirm post.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 05, 2014, 03:36:22 AM
I'm using that confirm post.

Fair enough. All I wanted to know.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 05, 2014, 03:45:51 AM
I think Dorian is scum. 

His confirmation (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125235.html#msg1125235) post feels bad to me, like scum trying to disassociate themselves from the kill.  I complained about lack of coffee.  He called the scum team bastards, and 'they'.  I don't know, maybe I watched too much CSI, I just think it's telling of a guilty conscience. 

He has some other odd content today, specifically;
Asking (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125276.html#msg1125276) if the Dan vote was serious. 
Fence (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125284.html#msg1125284) sitting about the Dan policy lynch, "I'll take my time see what the guy is doing before I reconsider the idea."  It's the second time Dorian touched on it without voicing his opinion.  I feel like town would have an opinion - mine is "I am OK with a Dan policy lynch in the absence of Serela". 
Further (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125288.html#msg1125288) questioning the Dan vote.  That's three times.  Also rolefishing. 

There's a few more posts where he has a back and forth with Prims but I already figured he was scum during the confirmation phase, and just saw this when I got back. 

##vote Dorian
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 03:50:17 AM
##Unvote
##Vote: Affinity
Maybe my comment toward LLD was harsh but everything I've said has been in a context that puts somebody on the spot for a response rather than browbeating them. Reads like you're voting on what's happened and the not intent behind it.

@Dan: Not only can I not read Raikaria's post as anything more than a joke based on past-game (elaborate pls), but why didn't you explain this when you made the initial vote? Most people don't make serious votes based on confirmation posts (except skypaladin apparently) so this isn't something you'd expect everyone to pick up on. Wasn't really fond of your reaction to a potential policy in the first place either since I would have expected more than "no please don't :(" from town!Dan.

LLD probs town but seriously get a working gut or at least wait and see if I don't get NKed, thanks. Dorian is silly but is likely posting uninhibited.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 05, 2014, 03:54:58 AM
Prims, it seems like you're just voting Affinity because they are voting for you.  Do you have something more to it? 
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 03:58:37 AM
Maybe my comment toward LLD was harsh but everything I've said has been in a context that puts somebody on the spot for a response rather than browbeating them. Reads like you're voting on what's happened and the not intent behind it.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 03:59:54 AM
"Affinity is looking for something to vote rather than scum intent, because he is scum." this is what the implication
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 04:05:07 AM
woah woah chill man
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 04:10:38 AM
Quote
Prims, it seems like you're just voting Affinity because they are voting for you.  Do you have something more to it?

weird interpretation; his vote is the more fleshed out.  why not question me on content instead?

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 04:12:03 AM
@Affinity: if you're moving your vote off me, can you at least explain why "cyberbullying" alone was enough to make me scum to you in the first place
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 04:20:34 AM
unexplained votes need no explanation.  i claim RVS
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 05, 2014, 04:30:30 AM
Affinity
Quote
why not question me on content instead?

Because I agreed with this.
Quote
cyberbullying is bad.

Prims
Quote
"Affinity is looking for something to vote rather than scum intent, because he is scum." this is what the implication
I am satisfied with this. 
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 04:45:10 AM
man circular arguments lead to mutual understanding.  world would be a better place if only.

##Unvote

now what. 
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 05, 2014, 05:09:15 AM
I'm highly interested in your thoughts about Dorian. 
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 05:18:24 AM
##Vote: huhwhat
##Vote: Prims

Logical stuff.  Well, more tone than anything, but if reasons needed, then some of the questioning feels pretending.  Like his conclusion on Dorian. 

Quote
Dorian, disagreeing with me isn't scummy but your posts have been very wishy-washy, like "why did you post this" wishy-washy. Was hoping your answers would be more transparent; as is though I'm leaning town with weak footing.

too finely shaded two pages in.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 05:22:36 AM
@Paladin;  well I disagree with the case you put out.  reluctance to policy lynch someone until later is a perfectly valid opinion.  other points in your 'case' feels stretchy, pop psychology in B-grade mafia games.  you seem earnest enough though.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 05, 2014, 05:33:36 AM
Vote Sky_Paladin
He looks like some sort of youkai. And they are evil. By default.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 05, 2014, 05:52:23 AM
Also that whole case kind of bothers me. Dorian is scummy based on a confirmation vote?
The so called fence sitting is non indicative of alignment at least at this stage of the game.
And overall it looks like Sky is just throwing shit around to see if it sticks.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Bardiche on September 05, 2014, 06:27:05 AM
Vote: Prims
Policy lynch or threat on Dan seems like legit reasoning for Scum to mislynch. Vote on Affinity masks empty unvote, why abandon policy proposal already? Suspect LLD may be on to something, Prims is fishy for putting down serious vote asap, regurgitating a lot of words in RVS (trying for brownie points?) and I disagree with his rhetoric on AD seeming Town-minded. Lynch Scum, not slackers (unless slackers are scummy).

Dorian is scummy for fencesitting on the AD policy nonsense, Affinity should not RVS vote amid serious business.

Dan scumreading based on confirmation posts is uh. Is that serious or RVS? Hard to tell with #motktown
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 06:47:27 AM
Vote on Affinity masks empty unvote, why abandon policy proposal already?
for one had done what I wanted it to (get people to talk about things), second that's hardly "masking an empty unvote" when I suspected Dan in the same post. I just felt stronger about the Affinity vote.

Prims is fishy for putting down serious vote asap, regurgitating a lot of words in RVS (trying for brownie points?)
either of these might annoy you but they have nothing to do with my alignment, especially since the lots of words weren't empty, they were relevant to my attempts to get posts out of other people (so I could form reads)

Lynch Scum, not slackers (unless slackers are scummy).
before my proposition there was exactly one (1) jokepost. what scum was I supposed to be lynching
this is also exactly why I dropped the proposition once I had real scumreads so the answer to your case should be pretty self-evident.

I'm uncertain why Affinity would put out an unclear RVS vote in the middle of a serious argument; that's begging to be misinterpreted. Also think there's an intentional lack of accountability in his posts.
Sky_Paladin bugs me because he seems to find me suspicious if his interaction with Affinity is any indication, but ignores me entirely and doesn't even take issue with me giving a pass to his primary scumread.
Not fond of Bard as he's taking things too face-value, and intentionally not reading between the lines makes it easier to fake a case. Also stating something that by itself is not inherently scummy then tacking on the brownie points part in parenthesis looks like padding his post.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: Moridin on September 05, 2014, 07:01:51 AM
no..  your other avi was cuter.
http://i.imgur.com/jKhv1eS.gif (http://i.imgur.com/jKhv1eS.gif)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 07:09:50 AM
actually wtf bard don't seriously try to push "Prims is suspect for putting down a serious vote ASAP" when your "thing" used to be trying to end RVS immediately. This is easily the most constructed thing I've seen this game, it's already bad for the point to not be alignment-indicative but here you should actively know it isn't.

##Unvote
##Vote: Bard
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 07:22:45 AM
Also that whole case kind of bothers me. Dorian is scummy based on a confirmation vote?
The so called fence sitting is non indicative of alignment at least at this stage of the game.
And overall it looks like Sky is just throwing shit around to see if it sticks.
Describe what happened in the 20 minutes between this post and the one that came before it.

Vote: Prims
Policy lynch or threat on Dan seems like legit reasoning for Scum to mislynch. Vote on Affinity masks empty unvote, why abandon policy proposal already? Suspect LLD may be on to something, Prims is fishy for putting down serious vote asap, regurgitating a lot of words in RVS (trying for brownie points?) and I disagree with his rhetoric on AD seeming Town-minded. Lynch Scum, not slackers (unless slackers are scummy).
Why is it a shifty unvote and not a move onto more pressing things? Has anyone said it was Town-minded? Why is scum > slackers even relevant to an earlygame prod wagon?

Feel like Sky is Town on the Dorian theory rather than make-shit-up Mafia. His following posts show proactivity despite not pressing everything he could have. (@Prims) Though I'd like to ask to what extent did you "figure [Dorian] was scum during the confirmation phase".

##Vote CF7

I wanna do this because I felt like the followup to his RVS is him trying to tack on reasons to his existing vote instead of doing greater things. And the reasons aren't good.

Agree on not liking Bard's case. Already thought the arguments were weak and Prims makes a good point.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 07:26:04 AM
Actually I take that back. Arguments weren't "weak" (I have similar backburner suspicions about brownie points), I just feel that way now. I guess the case as a whole just doesn't hold much value to me is what I meant.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 07:28:34 AM
Wow this is a short RVS.

But I don't much agree with the fledgeling cases  at this point, especially since a fair amount of them are somewhat speculative.

So I'm just gonna throw down my RVS vote for the time being since it is too early for me to think and I just woke up so I will be useful later.

#Vote: Shadoweh
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 07:31:01 AM
 :dragonforce:  Shadoweh isn't playing though.

You may not agree with any of the cases, but don't you have opinions on the casemakers?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 05, 2014, 07:35:15 AM
"brownie points" is the worst argument ever because if scum would do specific things to look town, town would also want to do those things. It's worthless unless Bard has actual reason to believe it's coming from scum!me faking it, otherwise I guess everybody in this game is only pretending to find and vote scum for brownie points, except for Moridin and Raikaria who are True Townies.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 05, 2014, 07:39:19 AM
##Unvote:
##Vote: Raikaria


but Raikaria is scum though.  He has nothing to say about the entire game posting so lets go back to rvs.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 07:40:24 AM
Shrug, I thought similar to what Affinity feels about your Dorian read at first (kinda fake) but came around to seeing it as null. Think the brownie points gut feeling is sourced there.

I indeed don't know about Bard though. The early half of the case can qualify but I read it and I go "ehh". Bard where did the Prims read originate from? The policy lynch?

Typing and eating potato chips is hard.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 05, 2014, 08:15:22 AM
Who is LLD?

So we are currently in "serious voting stage"? Arguments seem too weak for me to take seriously.

The fact that Prims is pushing this MAFIA hunting so early makes me inclined to think he's TOWN though. A MAFIA player logically would want TOWN to do as little MAFIA hunting as possible.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 05, 2014, 08:36:35 AM
The witch of certainty is LadyLambdadelta or LLD or LSD

and being the one to end rvs has long been a nulltell
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 05, 2014, 09:35:35 AM
Describe what happened in the 20 minutes between this post and the one that came before it.
First i thought that he was scummy, then i just put it into words, why i thought so.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 09:54:26 AM
First i thought that he was scummy, then i just put it into words, why i thought so.
I don't think that's what's being implied by your posts.

Vote Sky_Paladin
He looks like some sort of youkai. And they are evil. By default.
Also that whole case kind of bothers me. [...]
I mean, first quote is just your average RVS vote. If you thought him scummy without putting it to words, it really doesn't show.

Is nothing else bothering you?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 10:02:55 AM
##Unvote:
##Vote: Raikaria


but Raikaria is scum though.  He has nothing to say about the entire game posting so lets go back to rvs.

Raikaria has just crawled out of bed and always make an RVS post even if he missed it. I do this every time I miss RVS and I had literally been awake for 5 mins.


And I did say something about the actual game. I said I don't agree with the rather speculative stuff thrown around so far. That is something to say about the game so far. So don't misrep me. K?

I mean; to elaborate; things like Sky talking about the Dorian vote in #43 is rather speculative; especially for this part of the game. I mean, asking if a vote is serious at this state and fence-sitting on a silly RVS policy lynch? That's not really anything you can read into. Also I doubt he's rolefishing, it's just his sarcasm sensors are more broken than mine.

Also things like Bard saying an empty unvote is being masked with not a lot to go on at this time is ugh.

Also wait I'm sure Shadoweh signed up. Who cares I'll RVS someone not even in the game anyway.

##Vote: huhwhat
##Vote: Prims

Logical stuff.  Well, more tone than anything, but if reasons needed, then some of the questioning feels pretending.  Like his conclusion on Dorian. 

too finely shaded two pages in.
Also find this interesting. No unvote between these. Is Affinity Doublevoting? Need to wait for a votecount for this.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 10:04:28 AM
Not actually got anyone I want to vote for right now so I'll keep my Shadoweh vote for the time being. I just got a few things which irk me about some of the cases being thrown around but I'm not gonna try to push people off a cliff for bad cases just coming out of RVS.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 10:12:43 AM
C'mon, of course votes are gonna be weak at this stage but you have to commit to something anyway. Vote what bothers you the most.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 05, 2014, 10:15:35 AM
I mean, first quote is just your average RVS vote.
If you thought him scummy without putting it to words, it really doesn't show.
It was a semi-serious vote.

Well, there's Prims and his argument and to me it looked like rvs shenanigans but i didn't find it scummy.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 10:18:42 AM
C'mon, of course votes are gonna be weak at this stage but you have to commit to something anyway. Vote what bothers you the most.

Fine but in before accusations of OMGUS:

#Unvote
#Vote: Schezo


His reason for voting me is a misrep. He said I had 'nothing' to say about the game when I did say I disagreed with many of the cases formed such far since they were rather speculative. Therefor voting me and saying I had 'nothing' to say when I indeed did say something is a misrep.

I didn't say much about the game state in my first non-confirmation post admittedly; so it's a minor misrep but it's still a misrep.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 05, 2014, 10:23:20 AM
it's a misrep to say you had nothing to commit to when you kept a jokevote until prompted.  10/10 would lynch for buzzword use.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 10:29:03 AM
You did have nothing of your own to say about the game at that point. "I don't agree with anything" is, well, really, what does it add? It's not a "misrep".

Schezo: How's this different from Raikaria's usual stuff? You played last game, he uses buzzwords all the time. Meat up you case if you want to keep it.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 10:54:12 AM
it's a misrep to say you had nothing to commit to when you kept a jokevote until prompted.  10/10 would lynch for buzzword use.

No; that's not a misrep.

I do not consider your misrep that bad; as I said; it's minor.

It's just the worst thing I've seen so far. I'll probobly move off as soon as there's actually something bigger that I dislike.

You did have nothing of your own to say about the game at that point. "I don't agree with anything" is, well, really, what does it add? It's not a "misrep".

Saying the majority of the cases around so far were weak because of being somewhat speculative? Besides; I took him saying I had 'nothing' to say as no opinions at all. Not 'nothing to ADD' There's a difference.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 05, 2014, 11:07:22 AM
Phone post, on my way to work.

##Vote: BT

Tell me, what exactly is it that you find scummy about CF7? Cause I really don't see it.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 05, 2014, 12:12:50 PM
Prewarning I am smaushed

affinity
Quote
reluctance to policy lynch someone until later is a perfectly valid opinion. 

No its bad.  Its saying "I have no opinion now but later when I am pressed I may elect to go for a policy lynch" and thus handwave excuse for not having to scumhunt.  It doesn't advance the towny cause at all in terms of scum hunting.  Dorian made three posts where he was ambivalent about Dan when he didn't need to make any so it looks like fake posting to me. 

Quote
pop psychology in B-grade mafia games
He's scum because his response to the crime wasn't "this is how it affects me" (the way a normal person reacts) but "those bastards/revenge" which is an RL criminal tell, so I thought, hey I bet it works in mafia too. 

CF7
Quote
And they are evil. By default.
Evil is just a point of view.  From my point of view you are tasty. 

Quote
Dorian is scummy based on a confirmation vote?
He is scummy based on his confirmation post and his Danhandling. 

Prims
Quote
Sky_Paladin bugs me because he seems to find me suspicious if his interaction with Affinity is any indication, but ignores me entirely and doesn't even take issue with me giving a pass to his primary scumread.

When you omgus voted I was alerted.  It turns out I didn't read your post properly, I thought you voted for aff then responded to LSD.  When I questioned you, you didn't make up stuff retroactively, and just reposted what I missed.  So I decided your vote was legit and not fakecontent.  I was also kind of busy. 

BT
Quote
Though I'd like to ask to what extent did you "figure [Dorian] was scum during the confirmation phase".
As soon as I read it I felt something was off.  I thought about it while I was at work to try and figure out why it was off. 

CF7
Quote
First i thought that he was scummy, then i just put it into words, why i thought so.
Your reason is because I have a Cirno avatar.  I know Cirno broke our game but this is a different game now, so you have to let old grudges go. 

Dorian
Quote
Tell me, what exactly is it that you find scummy about CF7? Cause I really don't see it.
I assume it's because he (CF7) attempted to pass off a RVS vote as serious and then when challenged ...I don't know what he did.  It's worth voting for. 
I didn't expect you to ignore my case and vote for some other guy though.  Ill have to srot this mess out when I havel ess alcohol.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 05, 2014, 12:45:49 PM
*glances upwards*
Well at least he's got most of the words typed correctly...

Anyway, this guy doesn't seem to have posted at all (unless his username is something different...) so I'm going to vote for him and see what happens.
##vote Huhwhat

Also.

Maybe I shouldn't role claim at this point but apparently my "role" is to "be able to talk during the night phase". It seems a pretty pointless role, I'm thinking I must have rolled vanilla TOWN and the mod decided it would be funny to give me the ability to post more, considering how little I posted in the last game. Apparently I'm the only one with the ability to post in the night phase. So if anyone else claims it we should lynch him, for being a poser.

If anyone doubts my claim (lol) then be sure to remind me to post during the night just before this phase ends. Otherwise, it's possible I will have gotten over my indignation and forgotten all about it by then.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 05, 2014, 12:58:34 PM
CF7, Evil is just a point of view.  From my point of view you are tasty.

I insist that i am in fact delicious and not just tasty.
He is scummy based on his confirmation post
I posted *Bang* as my confirmation post, does that make me scummy? [sarcasm]Because, you know, that's totally reasonable[/sarcasm]
CF7, your reason is because I have a Cirno avatar.  I know Cirno broke our game but this is a different game now, so you have to let old grudges go. 
It has nothing to do with your avatar being Cirno. It's just, that your case is kind of baseless at best.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 01:00:14 PM
Hmm, actually, I think I can see what he means in #72 now. I also went over Medaka Box's earlygame and his opinions are a lot firmer here, which could be because circumstances are different, but I think I don't actually find him scummy at time of posting.

:V

Dorian, you started the Dan thing with "I'm against policy by default" (that's a pretty good quote, by the way), amended with "a vote on Dan is useless" and ended up acknowledging that town can put pressure on Dan that way. It seems like conflicting answers which suggests that you didn't take the questioning very well.

Sky's drunk babblng I was just cut by gave me scum vibes like where he responded to Prims and Affinity, but I'm pretty sure "I thought about it at work" is Town. I'd love to see you talk about other folks when you come back.

##Unvote
##Vote Bardiche


I also changed my mind on Raikaria/Schezo, Schezo saying Raikaria's bad for not commiting until I pressed him is right. Trying to excuse not having a vote because "I'm not gonna try to push people off a cliff for bad cases just coming out of RVS" is nonsense and probably scum-minded because you don't want to be accused of having a weak vote. He's also ignoring my interpretation that Schezo meant "nothing YOU have to say" as in original content or any problems with the votes you decided weren't good enough. Major, minor, whatever, accusing Schezo of misrepresentaiton here is just ignoring the big picture.

CUT: huhwhat is Prims. Also that's an Insomniac. Aren't you the crazy who went through every MotK game? You have no excuses.
CUT: ...by CF7 enforcing my decision with "your case is kind of baseless at best". I like. Okay.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
The first part of that post is directed at Dorian and the last two cuts at Moridin and CF7 respectively. I'm voting Bard because "I agree with huhwhat" and want to see that resolved first. I'm sure I've seen Raikaria hesitate to vote earlygame before but I don't remember what game it was in. Maybe Raikaria can help. I feel like it's still in the realm of Town Raikaria, though, and I've already done my best atm by posting what I did up there.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 05, 2014, 01:33:23 PM
Hm... Reread the thread.
A bit concerned about content of Lexicat's post. Or lack of thereof.
Vote on Prims. Encouraging other people to vote Prims. And more or less that's it. I'll wait for more posts, but so far this is quite bad, imo. Vote stays on Sky for the moment.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 01:36:05 PM
He's also ignoring my interpretation that Schezo meant "nothing YOU have to say" as in original content or any problems with the votes you decided weren't good enough.

Saying the majority of the cases around so far were weak because of being somewhat speculative? Besides; I took him saying I had 'nothing' to say as no opinions at all. Not 'nothing to ADD'. There's a difference.

I did not ignore you. I simply explained what I saw Schezo as saying as a response.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 01:36:21 PM
Wow I messed up those quotes somehow.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 01:39:16 PM
Also yeah I don't see a reason for Mordin to not claim at this point. He's be outed N1 when he starts babbleing anyway; right?

Not quite sure how Sky gets the idea CF7 is voting him because he has a Cirno avatar. Maybe attempting to discern Sky from his drunkposting isn't the world's best idea but that particular bit made me go 'huhwhat' for a second.

Speaking of; where is huhwhat.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 05, 2014, 01:41:19 PM
Huhwhat = Prims?

Geez, I get you want to refer to people by their old usernames, but at very least I'd like the player list to reflect the current player names.

##unvote

Hm... Reread the thread.
A bit concerned about content of Lexicat's post. Or lack of thereof.
Vote on Prims. Encouraging other people to vote Prims. And more or less that's it. I'll wait for more posts, but so far this is quite bad, imo. Vote stays on Sky for the moment.

Alright, let's go with him instead, as replacement "vote for the inactive guy" vote.

##vote Lexicat

Will look properly later.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 01:43:22 PM
Huhwhat = Prims?

I forgot this somehow.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Bardiche on September 05, 2014, 01:52:19 PM
for one had done what I wanted it to (get people to talk about things), second that's hardly "masking an empty unvote" when I suspected Dan in the same post. I just felt stronger about the Affinity vote.

I think your Dan suspicion is based on unfair grounds. You first talk about policy lynching him, then chide him for his reaction. That's an easy door to kick in; you can come back and say, "Hey man, you reacted by posting so much content you must be Scum panicking!" and just tailor fit your argument to the situation. Chiding Dan for responding "pls don't" to a policy lynch proposed during RVS is stupid, that's baiting a response and calling it scummy after. Tell me, how should Dan have responded to game being opened with "let's policy lynch Dan"? I don't think the rest of your post really constitutes "suspecting" Dan, because disagreeing with his vote on Raikaria doesn't imply you think he's scummy. Disagreement != suspicion. I'm also curious why your suspicion of Dan was only made public after you unvote him?

Quote
either of these might annoy you but they have nothing to do with my alignment, especially since the lots of words weren't empty, they were relevant to my attempts to get posts out of other people (so I could form reads)
before my proposition there was exactly one (1) jokepost. what scum was I supposed to be lynching

Loaded question. The point of my case is that you called for a policy lynch on Dan, which in the worst case scenario (from a Scum PoV) results in Townie points for ending RVS. In the best case scenario (for Scum), it results in a situation where you can mislynch Dan based on policy lynch nonsense. You don't normally abstain from RVS, and acting outside your meta in a way you tout as pro-Town (get people talking) just smells to me as touting your own horn and doing it for the sake of seeming Town.

Quote
Not fond of Bard as he's taking things too face-value, and intentionally not reading between the lines makes it easier to fake a case. Also stating something that by itself is not inherently scummy then tacking on the brownie points part in parenthesis looks like padding his post.

"Padding his post". Really? I don't think it's padding if I feel that your tryharding to provide reads and reading deeply into stuff fits my feeling that you're acting outside of your meta because you're Scum. Huh Whatty doesn't normally go in with such a blaze, and I happen to think posts as these (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125285.html#msg1125285) are bad because you're directly saying voting Dan on a policy lynch is better than RVS voting, and attack Dorian over not immediately voting with you or providing an alternative. "Serious policy lynch votes can be discussed" holds true only insofar as "it's a policy lynch", but there isn't an actual lot to say about them without thinking it's either Scummy or Townie.

Quote
actually wtf bard don't seriously try to push "Prims is suspect for putting down a serious vote ASAP" when your "thing" used to be trying to end RVS immediately. This is easily the most constructed thing I've seen this game, it's already bad for the point to not be alignment-indicative but here you should actively know it isn't.

I hate this style of defence because you try to justify your action itself by saying I normally do it, but then fail to actually consider the differences (I don't think I try to beat people into voting policy lynches with me) and the fact that my standard modus operandi does not justify your abnormal opening this game. It's not the action I'm voting, it's the person; in a perfect world we have a list of actions and anyone doing those things is 100% Town or Scum, but unfortunately we have to reason about the intent behind actions.

In this case, my gut tells me that Huh What's abnormal actions feel more scum-aligned due to the way he's going about it and how he's trying so very hard to treat the game super serious from the get-go. In the absence of actual scumtells, yeah, I'll vote gut and out-of-the-ordinary shit.

Don't appreciate Huh What's vote, not sure what it's about. Are you voting me because you're misunderstanding my case on you and/or feel that my usual behaviour justifies your behaviour now? You aren't me, you know. Not even close.

BT's vote on me isn't even anything to take serious, tacking it on idly and forgetting to include why is actually pretty bad. Do you even care?

Warning - while you were typing 6 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Bardiche on September 05, 2014, 02:08:06 PM
Basically, "Hey guys look at how Townie I am for ending RVS and immediately scumhunting" is what I mean by brownie points. Maybe I'm putting the mule before the cart because Huh What hasn't actually invoked that as a defence. Granted.

Huh What doesn't exactly do himself favours in my eyes by voting first Affinity and then me though. Feels like your vote is more over "I disagree with the case on me" than "actual scummy behaviour".

If I had a dime for every time someone voted me in response to me thinking they're scummy, man, who needs a job?

CF7, this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125459.html#msg1125459) implies you think LLD is scummy. Why do you think Sky Paladin is scummier than LLD? You voted him over "baseless case", but I don't see what distinguishes his case from LLD's.

I hate Raikaria's "inb4 OMGUS" in equal measure to how much I hated Serela doing the same in another game. Why spend time pointing out how your vote may look OMGUS-y instead of quantifying why it isn't first and foremost? I don't like how BT had to press Raikaria into voting seriously.

Thread is various shades of red, but I think Huh What's shade is most pure and brightest.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 05, 2014, 02:37:03 PM
CF7, this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125459.html#msg1125459) implies you think LLD is scummy. Why do you think Sky Paladin is scummier than LLD? You voted him over "baseless case", but I don't see what distinguishes his case from LLD's.
The difference is the timing and  the "seriousness" in their votes. LLD so far is just sitting on his RVS vote and haven't posted since then. And Sky presented his case as more of a case, than just RVS vote. So that's why i said that i'd wait for more posts from LLD.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 02:41:22 PM
@Sky_Paladin: Everyone on earth wants to go to heaven, but no one's perfect.  Sometimes they lack responsibility, lose interest, and veer off the garden path into the eyes of suspicion!

Mafia is much the same!  Ebb to the rhythm of life!  Show Dorian some tentative love and realize the things you are talking about are kinda small!  It's the evil, charismatic businessman, as well as the friends who aren't there, you need to fear!  Ebb to the rhythm of life!

Bard and huhwhat!  Man if I was in kindergarten I would wanna lynch those two.  But I must read.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 03:03:30 PM
Not quite sure how Sky gets the idea CF7 is voting him because he has a Cirno avatar. Maybe attempting to discern Sky from his drunkposting isn't the world's best idea but that particular bit made me go 'huhwhat' for a second.
This is a really insignificant thing to address out of all of CF7 vs Sky. (The avatar references were probably all jokes, for the record.)

"Prims" is annoying to add S's too so I'm just gonna shift to "huhwhat". Bard's talk of abnormality in huhwhat's play is actually kind of weird to me, since I don't think it's abnormal. I also think the focus on stuff like perks of policy lynches from Mafia's POV is kind of pointless because you're not looking at the other POV. I don't see the acting in huhwhat's replies to your case. I don't see how huhwhat is different with regards to tendencies to break RVS with a hammer. In fact, I'm pretty sure we've had this wall war before. Your strong gut feeling is based on things I disagree with.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 05, 2014, 03:04:41 PM
I just interpret all of bards posting as reasons why lld in smaller posts is voting huhwhat.  So many walls.  So little time to read them.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 05, 2014, 03:07:22 PM
Raikaria
Quote
Not quite sure how Sky gets the idea CF7 is voting him because he has a Cirno avatar.

CF7 voted me because I have a Cirno avatar (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125356.html#msg1125356). 

So that's why.  Glad I could help. 

To be fair, he later added retroactive reasons to support his vote that included 'my vote is only semi-serious' and 'totally not countervoting Sky for his vote on my scumbuddy Dorian Sky's case has no substance'.  Actually now that I think about it, Affinity also voted for me immediately after my case, then hopped off. 

Scum team Affinity/CF7/Dorian.  You heard it here first, folks. 

Bard wrote a lot and I'll look at it again later on the train.  I'm not my bet right now and checking back and forth between him and prims is beyond me atm. 

Aff:
"@Sky_Paladin: Everyone on earth wants to go to heaven, but no one's perfect.  Sometimes they lack responsibility, lose interest, and veer off the garden path into the eyes of suspicion!" 

What is this?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 05, 2014, 03:13:06 PM
Dan, do you have any actual opinions on any of the active players, or are you just prod-dodging?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 03:16:28 PM
Scum team Affinity/CF7/Dorian.  You heard it here first, folks.
:colbert:  Keep up with the nonsensical scumteam guesses and you'll lose my favor.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 03:25:51 PM
Raikaria
CF7 voted me because I have a Cirno avatar (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125356.html#msg1125356). 

So that's why.  Glad I could help. 

I was only looking at your drunkpost; I forgot about that post. Especially since you didn't quote that one when you stated about the Cirno avatar.

Also guessing entire scumteams at this point is a little optimistic.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 05, 2014, 03:27:09 PM
@Sky,

12 players 4 pages < 24 hours = what looks like a prod dodge is simply normal content from me in the face of absurdly long posts. (it's also actually pretty much a prod dodge)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 05, 2014, 03:29:30 PM
The only really big post is Bard's. It's only less than 4 pages with the first one full of confirmation posts.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 03:31:11 PM
Watching two people argue about things I don't care about (Dan policy lynch thing) requires breakfast, but I will side with Prims on this one. 

Reasons Bardiche throws out above (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125470.html#msg1125470) simply seems wholly out of proportion.  He repeatedly mentions the cataclysmic effects of HW's stuff about policy lynching Dan when it has had a negligible effect on the game so far, delving into meta and stuff.  All this stuff doesn't seem to matter (look at the game-state now and what other people are talking about).

The only direction Bard's argument can go is into the past, and the past is very much where the mafia wants to be.  Locking eyes with someone and generally waving off others as 'shades of red' is something I remember as particularly scummy, it gives their voteparks some depth and allows them to wait and see.  So yeah, stronger than my previous vote, hehe.

##Unvote
##Vote: Bardiche

If there's one thing about Bard's argument I agree with though, it is his concluding remark that huhwhat is voting him for disagreement rather than scum intent.  Other than the good counterarguments he makes, huhwhat merely says that Bard's post seems like the 'most constructed so far', which doesn't mean anything (since town does that too for people they think are scum but can't really think of why at first).  So, I don't know; length begets length.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 03:41:45 PM
@Sky; Your dorian case doesn't seperate town imperfection from scum intent.

man i questioned you for something, you answered unexpectedly, i dropped it.  you did much the same for huhwhat so what gives man.

also, why suddenly accuse me of being scum for dropping my vote on you when you had an opportunity to do so here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125353.html#msg1125353)?

also misrepping cf7.  how is a double post like this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125360.html#msg1125360) retroactive? 

your scumhunting is looking more and more like latent inspiration. 
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 05, 2014, 04:19:09 PM
Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock, Tick Tock .... BRRRRRRRRRRRNG
Good Morning!

Raikaria: (2) ActionDan, Schezo
Prims: (2) Lexicat, Just
Dorian Mizuhashi: (1) Sky_Paladin
Sky_Paladin: (1) CF7
Just: (3) Prims, BT, Affinity
BT: (1): Dorian
Schezo: (1) Raikaria
Lexicat: (1) Moridin84

Not voting:
N/A

7 Votes needed for Majority
32 hours left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140906T1915&p0=2374&msg=Day+one+End)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 05, 2014, 05:28:39 PM
I'm a little salty that Affinity unvoted from what may have been a double-vote just before the votecount came along.

I hate Raikaria's "inb4 OMGUS" in equal measure to how much I hated Serela doing the same in another game. Why spend time pointing out how your vote may look OMGUS-y instead of quantifying why it isn't first and foremost? I don't like how BT had to press Raikaria into voting seriously.

I didn't seriously vote because I didn't have anything at the time that made me want to seriously vote. Hence when BT pressed me I just went FINE have the worst thing I can see. Except I know these sorts of situations. Generally when I do something to get one guy off my back two more jump on.

I'm still mulling over Sky/CF7 interactions.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 05, 2014, 07:04:48 PM
just to be sure really quick:
Quote from: moridin 84
Apparently I'm the only one with the ability to post in the night phase.
You were told explicitly that you're the only one with this ability?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 05, 2014, 07:08:51 PM
lmao the number in his name is the same number as the post I'm quoting.  god bless.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 05, 2014, 07:47:01 PM
Yeah I've seen nothing to convince me that I should be voting anyone but Prims right now.

On the other hand, I did see something I want to follow up on, but I wanna see how it evolves first.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 05, 2014, 08:51:37 PM
I read through this thread a few times, but all the reasons and such that people are bring up are pretty damn thin.

I suppose the game is essentially a witch hunt but I have a hard time agree with anything, rationally speaking.

just to be sure really quick:You were told explicitly that you're the only one with this ability?
I read over it a few times but it was pretty clear. The text was bold and everything.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 05, 2014, 09:43:39 PM
If you can't agree with anything why not make up your reasons for voting ppl. For instance do you feel that ppl putting out thin reasons are scummy or town?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 05, 2014, 09:51:02 PM
Actually I thought of something and wanted to post it before I went to sleep.

At the start of the game Prims wanted to policy lynch ActionDan right? In which case, isn't it almost impossible that the both of them are MAFIA? That means, if we lynch ActionDan and he turns up MAFIA, Prims would be practically confirmed TOWN.

The downside here is that we learn nothing at all if he is TOWN.

This can technically be applied to any "arguing couples" but it is much, much weaker.

##vote ActionDan

See you in 10-12 hours.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 05, 2014, 09:53:07 PM
If you can't agree with anything why not make up your reasons for voting ppl. For instance do you feel that ppl putting out thin reasons are scummy or town?
Yeah I don't want to "make up reasons". I prefer to be truthful about things.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 05, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
Just a few things before I get to my dinner and then read Bards wall.

@Sky Paladin: I'll address your case as soon as you got one which isn't 100% bias. I still give you points for effort and creativity.^^

@BT: The Dan wagon, as HuhWhat suggested it, was nothing more then prod vote thing and there is a point where just more votes/pressure wouldn't lead to more or better content, that's why I called it useless. But we all know Dan and how he loves to give us nothing, so I was wondering how to keep the pressure without tie my vote on him.
In English, a vote today wouldn't get us much but a vote tomorrow, that could go on forever.

@Moridin: Can you tell me why you felt the need to claim? I don't think there was enough  pressure on you to justify is, so what was it that you tried to accomplish with it?

@Mod: How does it come that I'm not voting (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125535.html#msg1125535) right now when I'm sure that I voted BT (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125410.html#msg1125410)?

However ?

##Vote Schezo

I can't help it but you agreed with HuhWhat a bit too eagerly for my liking and your Raikaria vote isn't impressive either. So what's your reason to exchange your prod vote  on Dan for one one Raikaria?
I mean, are you really satisfied with Dans ?content? or was that agreement just lip service?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 05, 2014, 11:11:33 PM
Yo! Oyasu desu ka?
oof!

Just: (3) Prims, BT, Affinity
Raikaria: (2) ActionDan, Schezo
Prims: (2) Lexicat, Just
Schezo: (2) Raikaria, Dorian
Dorian Mizuhashi: (1) Sky_Paladin
Sky_Paladin: (1) CF7
ActionDan: (1) Moridin84

7 Votes needed for Majority
25 hours left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140906T1915&p0=2374&msg=Day+one+End)

Previous votecount has been fixed.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 12:07:58 AM
So, after I read Bards wall am I not sure why his actually a wagon. Good, he might be kinda stubborn there, a certain Luther quote comes to mind,  but if that's scummy then I need someone who explains that to me (in preferably simple terms).
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 12:20:09 AM
@moridin:

Quote from: miordin
At the start of the game Prims wanted to policy lynch ActionDan right? In which case, isn't it almost impossible that the both of them are MAFIA?

Nope, scum can feign wanting to vote their buddies, even to the point of lynch.  It's called bussing, and while I agree that it's unlikely for D1 it's not near impossible.  (even more so since policy lynches are really rare). 

Answer my question; you think the cases presented so far are thin, but are they scummy or anything to you?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 12:35:43 AM
Satisfied by Sky_Paladin's response. Affinity seems mostly OK now too.

Moridin, if you absolutely insist on voting inactives (which isn't going to do anything this early in the game, people will post when they see the thread), why are you ignoring the rest of the game at the same time?

I'm down with a Schezo wagon, yes Raikaria is bad but had Schezo not posted before Raikaria made another jokepost he would have had like... nothing, and this isn't very impressive when there are multiple wagons today he's just ignoring and Raikaria is a particularly easy case to make. Right now also isn't a situation where town would want to be nonchalant about the entire game.

Bard is scummy because he ignores context of my posts for the sake of voting me - in actual reality mafia world my call for a policy lynch on Dan was not being followed up with, and "this is a legit reason for scum to mislynch somebody!" is a ridiculous accusation because for fuck's sake I never even said we should turbolynch Dan, just that we should heap pressure on him all game. Already discussed why I think "brownie points" is worthless as an argument and ultimately padding. Even if town can make constructed cases Bard is twisting my actions which is inherently sleazy.

On a side note, BT, you seem a lot more "I'm voting Bard because I disagree" than I am after your response to his wall of text where you said you thought you'd seen this same wallfight before. why are you scumreading Bard?

RE: Affinity: Bard's case being "constructed" was never my only reason for suspecting him (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125367.html#msg1125367), although my vote-switch was because it struck me that his case seemed hypocritical ("Prims is fishy for putting down serious vote asap" does not translate to "Prims is fishy for putting down serious vote asap which he does not usually do").

RE: Bard's points being about the person and not the action, well, okay, but this seems like an ass-pull as that was not clear in your initial post at all and I'm unsure how anybody was supposed to draw that conclusion. Even as meta points they're incredibly silly as my town meta is far from static (like, compare NHK to Adorable, two games which happened back to back).

RE: late Dan explanation: I was focussing on other things and wanted the game state to evolve a bit. What triggered my elaboration wasn't the vote switch, it was Dan bringing up Raikaria as a serious option which painted his RVS post in a whole new light. Establishing my previous dislike of him was a side-note.

RE: Bard and my Dan suspicion: policy lynch suggestion proposed something serious to discuss, Dan goes "no don't" then drops what seems to be a RVS vote, offering no real alternative, when town!Dan is a more eager player than this. Note that this isn't something I'd vote him for NOW (I agree with Affinity that you are stuck in the past) but as a RVS STRONG case it's pretty reasonable. The main reason I find Dan scummy is that his Raikaria vote was apparently serious but he never explained it at a point when town would want serious cases and nobody else would have picked up on it. And he still hasn't explained that when I asked him to and is just prod-dodging. He doesn't care about doing anything with his reads. SPEAKING OF WHICH

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan
Now Bard can be OK with a policy lynch on you because you're actually really really scummy. I posed a question to you while you were actively posting and you ignored it when making your prod-dodge hours later. Stop sucking up to LLD and do something if you actually care about playing for town; as is it's evident you don't.

I'm not getting lynched today, meaning LLD needs to do actually something so I don't feel like I'm being too quick in giving her a pass for intentionally playing like a Shit Player.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 01:41:59 AM
Sky's drunk babblng I was just cut by gave me scum vibes like where he responded to Prims and Affinity, but I'm pretty sure "I thought about it at work" is Town.
actually I'd like an explanation for the scum vibes here and why him thinking about it at work can't be faked cuz both of these statements seem pretty arbitrary to me
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 02:18:10 AM
ok.

Dorian you think I made a serious vote 1 page into the game.  The Raikaria vote has something even if it's "easy" to make.  I had no reason to keep an rvs vote, u srs?
And my Raikaria vote isn't even a prod, just lynch him already.  Promising future content is cheep talk.

I honestly have no idea why moridin would claim an unccable action right now when he was going to show us his power n1 anyways.
The only thing I can thing of is to make his slot look like its doing something by having a verifiable action out on day 1 as opposed to waiting for the night which is ehhhh?
And what is your vote on LLD right now?  RVS or do you really just not like LLD's one liners?

and excuse the shit out of me for not having anything to say about a bunch of people overreacting about very weak points and votes from early rvs.  It isn't even crazy that the "ez mode Raikaria" vote is actually one of the better cases at the moment since most everyone else is being proactive.
The wagons right now are bard freaking out over nothing and if anything I put that huh what is more scum out of them since he's attacked Bard LLD and Sky after they suspected him. 
Though I disagree with HW and day 1 is the most nonchalant thing in the game.  Half the players lurk it out lest they be called out and voted o god!
HW isn't even getting lynched today because of how much he's talking (lel)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 02:22:19 AM
I'm town-reading LLD, for the record.

nevermind that suspecting somebody who suspects you isn't a scumtell, especially when you're a major focus of the day, and that OMGUS is a meme that should be wiped from everybody's mafia vocabularies forever
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 02:24:12 AM
that said I feel like you're purposely underplaying everything. Bard is freaking out, but is he town or scum? Dan is technically a wagon, why isn't he worth your vote? Especially since he is definitely not being pro-active and evidently doesn't care about his own opinions.

D1 is dumb but these things only become surface level because you let them be.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 02:44:04 AM
Bard is null freaking out about early rvs shit for being early rvs shit.  I'm not seeing the slam dunk case on him as scum.

As for why I don't really care about dan is because I saw dorian say that votes on him are useless if he doesn't talk day 1 anyways and people won't lynch a lurker day 1 (which is true)
but I like you better after your responses to me so let's just wait for all that promised contentTM from like half of the players.  (moridin raikaria cf7 LLD)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 02:54:05 AM
you say people won't lynch a lurker day 1 but also say people won't lynch a talker day 1

from a game theory standpoint i would much rather lynch dan over a talker like bard and as it happens dan is scummy as fucc alongside being a lurker, now is the best time to pick him off
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 02:57:53 AM
the tl;dr of my case on Bard is that he's twisting things that aren't really alignment-relevant so he can push me; I have cooled on him based on his response if the tells really are partially meta but think he wasn't very clear about that when voting me.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 02:58:09 AM
people don't lynch lurkers day 1.  they lynch people who fuck up day 1 by talking.  I wouldn't let you get lynched just because you talk a lot.  I'd rather play with a scum who posts than 5 people afk.

I'll be back in a few hours and if no one's said shit I'm cool with a dan lynch. 
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 06, 2014, 05:53:27 AM
While rereading the thread and trying to make sense of the current wagons there was one thing, that kind of set some mental alarms off.
@BT.
Can you explain your reasons for voting Bard? In the post you are voting for him, you talk about different people, then suddenly vote Bard for no reason and then  talk about some other things. All in alll that vote seems strange, like scummy levels of strange...
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 05:59:23 AM
wait.  who is bt's avi?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 06:30:56 AM
Ginko the mushi master you little shit

who's in your fucking avatar


err

CF7 my reason for voting Bard there was the agreement at the top of the page, which I mentioned in the post right after the one you're referring to. Still "scummy levels of strange"?

The reason the Bard vote stuck is that I saw the disagreement as a sign that he's scum. The reason we repeat "you're just disagreeing, not finding him/her scummy" is that it's not always the same thing. But I thought Bard was basing a "strong gut read" on things he blew out of proportion or were otherwise faulty. I didn't expect him to remember every previous game, but I vaguely remember seeing Bard attack huhwhat on ED1 pro-town posing before, so I figured there's a chance he remembers too and is brushing it aside. The fact that I didn't agree even about the meta meant I didn't see where his gut vote would originate from in the first place, meaning it's fake.

Day is 48 hours, isn't it. I can vote Dan for not following up with a post after the page 4 exchange, though I'm not sure that's a scummy thing or if he just really, really doesn't care. So I definitely won't mourn a consolidation wagon but don't really feel anything otherwise.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 06:34:28 AM
Raikaria's also a person who failed to bring content to the table despite "thinking" about it which I think is telling because IDK what kind of time troubles Dan is having. If Dan has no time trouble and it's bullshit then he's scum too. They're all scum.

(I would lynch Rai first, I think.)

I was gonna poke LLD for not doing anything to get huhwhat lynched but I saw the votecount and thought "ehh, maybe", but yeah, still. You're basically not affecting the game at all.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 06:42:13 AM
actually I'd like an explanation for the scum vibes here and why him thinking about it at work can't be faked cuz both of these statements seem pretty arbitrary to me
shit forgot

Felt like Sky was pressured to explain stuff in detail and it was scummy. I like picking at arbitrary stuff, but really, I read that line and it gave me pause and I wondered if he would have casually dropped that into his explanation post if he was scum. I'm kinda conflicted on Sky at the moment because it's pretty much based on whether I think he's BSing or not. Currently leaning "no" but more things to work with from the dude to make this less one-dimensional would be appreciated.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 06:43:04 AM
dang I got owned and I just liked it.

um

Catboy Uzu Sanageyama.

And like the rule is you don't poke lld unless you're ready to throw down and like.. no.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 07:00:55 AM
Just posting to say I'm okay with a Dan lynch due to the lurking.  Wary of the ensuing wagon since the reasons behind it tend to disappear if Dan posts seriously, causing everyone to scatter frightfully and emptily.  Most Dan proponents have more than one scumread, but still.  The number of people okay with a Dan lynch also worries me.

BT's explanation of his Bard vote seems retroactive and unconvincing.  I don't know.  As others have said, his vote history feels messed up (especially since he said he would like to lynch Rai most now). Somewhat moderated by how open his being to all angles, but man.

Judgement on Ralkaria\Schezo pending.  Not very interested in their play today.

Let's see what Bard has to say.

Sigh.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 07:09:34 AM
"Rai first over Dan", not "Rai first". Context matters.

I wouldn't call that an adequate explanation, more of an elaboration and response to people who questioned me about stuff. The case is basically that I don't buy Bard's case, which is definitely stronger than anything else I have. I'll reread today to make sure I'm not being short-sighted about it.

A little addendum to what I said about Dan: I don't "feel anything" because I do think his reaction to <4 pages was a little... uhh. It's an overreaction and scum are more likely to overreact over thread activity.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 07:10:37 AM
EBWOP: I don't "don't feel anything". lol.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 07:10:48 AM
If Dan is town then he should care. There's a lack of caring from him even ED1 which is the easiest possible time for him to care if he's town.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 07:11:28 AM
Raikaria's also a person who failed to bring content to the table despite "thinking" about it which I think is telling because IDK what kind of time troubles Dan is having. If Dan has no time trouble and it's bullshit then he's scum too. They're all scum.

Timezones man. Timezones. Was getting late when I said I was mulling it over. Now I'm awake again.

@Moridin: Can you tell me why you felt the need to claim? I don't think there was enough  pressure on you to justify is, so what was it that you tried to accomplish with it?

If Mordin is a night-talker he's be outed the instant he spoke during N1 anyway, so scum could target him N1 knowing his role regardless. I don't think there is a reason for Mordin to wait on his claim.

Bard is scummy because he ignores context of my posts for the sake of voting me - in actual reality mafia world my call for a policy lynch on Dan was not being followed up with, and "this is a legit reason for scum to mislynch somebody!" is a ridiculous accusation because for fuck's sake I never even said we should turbolynch Dan, just that we should heap pressure on him all game.

Wait this doesn't make any sense what are you trying to say here huhwhat?

  Promising future content is cheep talk.

Again; sleeping. Timezones. Also you admit yourself that other players have promised content later yet for the most part focus solely upon me. Any particular reason?

Anywho; there are things I have come to the conclusion that I do not like:

I don't like Lexicat's early posts, especially the attitude in them. Also apparently Lexicat is LLD but I don't see how that works?

People without their votes on Prims should reconsider their life choices. People with their votes on Prims are awesome cats who deserve head-scratches.

You want a case? You're scum. There you go, case compiled.

Not satisfied? I'm not really bothered. If you wanna vote me, you should just do it instead of threatening to do it.

I mean seriously. This isn't a good attitude to have.

Also LLD has done absolutely nothing since this except defend me before I had even posted D1 content [Wat] and this:
Yeah I've seen nothing to convince me that I should be voting anyone but Prims right now.

On the other hand, I did see something I want to follow up on, but I wanna see how it evolves first.

So; yeah totally up for lynching Lexicat at this point. I'm usually the largest proponent of lynching lurkers D1 after all.

But there are a few other things I want to say:

I don't like anyone who used 'Fence Sitting' as an actual case. Because it's stupid and smells of just making up any reason to lynch people. I'm looking at Sky_Paladin and Bard here. People using confirmation posts as reasons people are scum is also bad especially when they do not explain how that post is scummy [Actiondan and Sky]

CF7's reason for voting Sky_Paladin isn't in CF7's vote post. It's the post after it. [#58] Yet Sky gets the impression he is being voted because of his avatar? Honestly; if CF7 was voting people for having a youkai avatar I'd have a noose around my neck already because my avatar is a youkai youkai and not a fairy.

Although; on the other hand; apparently it took 20 minutes for CF7 to post three lines about why he was actually voting Sky. So... IDK.

Sky also seems to severely over-react to CF7's vote on him [See: The wall he made, although it was a drunkpost]. But this is somewhat regular for Sky. I don't like the 'Prims ended RVS early he's bad' thing either.

Right now I'm finding it difficult to go between Sky_Paladin and Lexicat. I think I'm just going to go for the old standard D1 meta and go for the one out of the two I dislike who has the least content.

I don't particularly like Schezo's content and such still, but he's a lesser issue than Sky's bad cases and overreaction to being voted and Lexicat's... everything and nothing.

#Unvote
#Vote: Lexicat


===

Warning while you were posting 3 posts cut you

===
Warning another post cut you
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 07:18:06 AM
if schezo was a true townie he would have made his avatar this http://i.imgur.com/QdecOIh.png

raikaria when i said i wasn't following up my dan policy suggestion i meant i never was actually going to lynch him - the post said we should keep a wagon on him so he's under the threat of the lynch

thoughts on dan case? lld lynch isn't happening today and honestly i hate your post because that's a lot of quotes for several non-opinions and an easy voteswitch that could be summed up as "lld is not playing mafia". a fun fact is that dan is also not playing mafia and doesn't even have any sort of vigor to his "opinion"
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 07:26:52 AM
i am fairly certain (lol) that if LLD was scum who wanted to coast on gutread shitposting she would not have bothered questioning dan, unless she wanted to set up pseudocontent that she could link back to when called out for not doing anything. when you want to fly under the radar as scum you stay in your comfort zone
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 07:28:13 AM
tl;dr i interpret the lld/dan exchange as lld being town who thought something was there. i do hate lld's play but wouldn't lynch her as is
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 07:32:57 AM
if schezo was a true townie he would have made his avatar this http://i.imgur.com/QdecOIh.png
that's next week.  after the puyo tetris ones though.  Those are so great.

and Raikaria are you reading I already did this.
The witch of certainty is LadyLambdadelta or LLD or LSD
as for actually playing that's for tomorrow morning cause I'm too impaired to actually give you a thing right now.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 06, 2014, 07:46:00 AM
1, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1...
1, 2, 3, A, B, C!

Just: (2) BT, Affinity
Raikaria: (2) ActionDan, Schezo
Prims: (2) Lexicat, Just
Schezo: (1) Dorian
ActionDan: (2) Moridin84, Prims
Dorian Mizuhashi: (1) Sky_Paladin
Sky_Paladin: (1) CF7
Lexicat: (1) Raikaria

7 Votes needed for Majority
16 and a half hours left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140906T1915&p0=2374&msg=Day+one+End)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 07:50:37 AM
lmao 2/2/2/2 wagons (also Schezo only has 1 vote barring mayor!Dorian)

I'll go Dan > Raikaria > Bard, Dan first because he's inactive AND scummy and Raikaria over Bard mostly because Bard will be less of a headache to read later compared to the other two. Utility lynching in 2014 but what are you gonna do about it.

More realistically though, I leave my vote on Dan before going to bed late at night so you guys are railroaded into consolidating onto my scumread when I sleep past deadline (fuck alarms).
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 07:51:54 AM
also Raikaria's lld vote is especially wtf when you consider we're low on time and all of nobody has expressed interest in lynching her (and Dan-sorta and I implied a lack of interest in it).
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 07:53:12 AM
Timezones man. Timezones. Was getting late when I said I was mulling it over. Now I'm awake again.
No no, I was talking about the timeframe you were active in yesterday which ended in the "CF7/Sky mulling over" post. Your posts were full of insignificant / weak points and you had the time to "mull over" CF7/Sky or find something more serious than the minor jab with Schezo but you didn't. It took you a few hours to say you had to mull over things after saying more or less nothing solid.

Speaking of which, going from a self-admitted "weak" Schezo vote to "I still don't like Schezo's content" is exploitative. If you think Schezo is scummy it's news because you had insignificant reason to think so prior.

Since when does the fence-sitting argument bother you?

No one was voting anyone for their avatar. That's still incorrect analysis. The whole take on CF7/Sky ended up being wishy-washy and betrays the conclusoin you came to that you're fine with voting Sky.

And on top of that, I don't know what kind of meta you're talking about but it seems like an arbitrary way to justify where your vote is.

I'm gonna do the Bard reread now.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 07:56:05 AM
wtf Prims there's no way you're sleeping for 16 hours.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 07:56:19 AM
The meta I always talk about.

And I know CF7 did not vote Sky for his avatar; I said that in my post.

And while my dislike for Schezo was 'weak' before it is still a negative opinion and he has failed to improve upon it.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 07:57:54 AM
Then go on and tell me how he hasn't improved. I got a decent read out of his overnight posts.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 07:59:21 AM
i will sheep bt on raikaria but only late on the wagon so that lld doesn't have to stop tunnelling when he flips scum :)

actually I am confused why BT hasn't switched yet, it seems like he would as town here.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 08:00:47 AM
I'm tempted to. That's exactly why I said I'd reread Bard. Except I know there's not much to "reread" so it basically means "I'm gonna review my opinion again".
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 08:01:21 AM
##Unvote:
##Vote: ActionDan
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 08:04:29 AM
My main issue with Raikaria is that his rigidness about ED1 being worthless just seems really really forced since content quality hasn't evolved much at all since he made his "lol nothing's happening" post, like it's a stance he's choosing to take and uphold to seem consistent rather than just his opinion on the early content. his schezo and lld cases have both definitely not been any stronger than anything presented at that point

iunno i really wanna just nuke a dumb unreadable guy
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 08:11:26 AM
ahahahahaa okay holy shit I have just come across either a SLAM DUNK of Raikaria only pretending to pay attention or the biggest Serela moment I've seen in my life.

how does one go from
##Vote: huhwhat
##Vote: Prims
Also find this interesting. No unvote between these. Is Affinity Doublevoting? Need to wait for a votecount for this.
This

to

Speaking of; where is huhwhat.
Huhwhat = Prims?
I forgot this somehow.
This

< 5 hours between posts. somehow I don't think Raikaria is actually reading this game.
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
This isn't even getting to how other people such as Bard had been referring to me as HW, meaning he'd know this if he had been reading D1 content instead of handwaving it all as "fledgeling cases".
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 08:15:03 AM
lol  I thought cf7 was doing that double vote harping not Raikaria saying that and acting like he doesn't know you.

##Unvote:
##Vote: Raikaria
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 06, 2014, 08:37:07 AM
I've been away all day and will post shortly. Read the thread and thoughts:
I lean town on Bard and Prims. I want to lunch Rai for his stubborn hang up and continues for "it must be Sky or CF7" or "it mus be Sky or LLD" mislynch strat he used in his last scum game. Details will follow. Agree that Rais fake forget appears super fake also.
Still think Dorian is scum.  Affinity was all over the place in RVS and the. Suddenly came out with a huge post and vote on Bard which seems very out of character for them = suspicious.
Could lunch Dan for him popping in to say yeah I'm prod dodging watchagonnadoaboutitlololol annoyance. Why sign up if you're not gonna play.
Prefered lunch is Raikaia ATM. Will review and pos points before voting.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 08:43:26 AM
go make your autocorrect use lynch instead of lunch
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 08:47:36 AM
RE: SLAM DUNK: I see one explanation for that but I'm obviously not gonna say.

I think there should be a wagon on Raikaria anyway so that's fine. I read Bard again and the strength of my vote depends on how much I actually think he's bullshitting. Which isn't completely, apparently. I can't refute "Bard thought huhwhat's scum based on his handling of the policy lynch" especially if his references of "abnormal play" are talking about that and not huhwhat's hyperactivity (which isn't abnormal). I think I may have reconciled everything. There's still how he goes on to talk about the merits of scum policy lynching which is just manipulative IMO but... shrug. Affinity's huhwhat suspicion at the time, I could get behind, because he actually found something in huhwhat's play he thought was fishy and pressed it directly. Bard went over huhwhat's play and went "aha, scum poser" and only elaborated later. The elaboration was biased and I don't know which of the things he noticed then and which he added retroactively.

I think it boils down to "I don't like it". It's an "intuitive" vote as far as seeing someone being different and voting him for him, but I think Scum Bard is seizing the opportunity. He hasn't actually gone to lengths to do something else and I plain disagree with the vote. But I think I'm gonna leave it as a tentative on Bard's future content. I feel more confident that Raikaria's play is empty.

##Unvote
##Vote Raikaria


Bleh cut by Sky. Why is Affinity "out of character" = "suspicious" and why are you on about Dan for not playing the game and not LLD too?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 08:55:48 AM
RE: SLAM DUNK: I see one explanation for that but I'm obviously not gonna say.

I think there should be a wagon on Raikaria anyway so that's fine.
I do too and I do too.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:19:28 AM
Honestly; I don't do much yesterday because I'm busy, and then I talk about my opinion on things I feel are important and people accuse me of not even reading the game when I did such just above.

A little irritating.

And yes; I forgot Huhwhat = Prims. I forgot some people call you huhwhat and others cal you prims; which is your username. Pretending that is a slam dunk is stupid. I'm scum because I forgot that you are Prims 'nickname: huhwhat'? That doesn't even have anything to do with the game.

And I'm not liking people sheeping onto the wagon because of a 'case' that isn't even a 'case'. It's just me getting nicknames mixed up. And I do this sort of thing often. Last game I kept getting Bard and Zakeri mixed up. So saying I'm scum because I got a nickname mixed with a username is just a little bit silly.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 06, 2014, 09:20:41 AM
CF7 my reason for voting Bard there was the agreement at the top of the page, which I mentioned in the post right after the one you're referring to. Still "scummy levels of strange"?
Oh. Now i see it. Okay. I was directly looking at posts with votes when i was doing my wagons analysis.

For now i am sort of leaning town on Prims. Slightly less town on Schezo. Would lynch LLD, but considering that people do not want to do it, that probably won't happen. Don't feel like lynching Raikaria, to be honest.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:21:12 AM
Also wow I JUST NOTICED that Affinity vote was for both Huhwhat and Prims, aka: The same person.

If anything I've over-reading into things because I thought that was a doublevote. Which shows I was paying attention to what was going on... just I forgot Huhwhat is Prims.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 09:26:59 AM
Yep, that's the explanation. The nickname mix-up is null; Raikaria didn't have many people calling Prims huhwhat in the same post before he realized his mistake.

Witness that the case on you is more than that. Go read my post at the end of the last page to see what I mean. I'll try and make an organized case next.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 09:33:33 AM
that's fair but generally "doublevote" means two votes on the same person, hence why I thought you knew huhwhat = Prims at the time

I was going to bring up a thing about Bard still calling me HW but apparently that was -after- Raikaria made his post, which is what I get for going by ISO I guess
also didn't know about the apparent mix-ups last game
considering switching back to Dan with this in mind but not satisfied yet

And I'm not liking people sheeping onto the wagon because of a 'case' that isn't even a 'case'. It's just me getting nicknames mixed up. And I do this sort of thing often. Last game I kept getting Bard and Zakeri mixed up. So saying I'm scum because I got a nickname mixed with a username is just a little bit silly.
why say "people" when it's just schezo
this strikes me as a blanket response
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: CF7 on September 06, 2014, 09:37:09 AM
So... I'd lynch Dan, as sort counter measure to his D1 lethargy.
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
for now.
Maybe it will energize him enough to actually post something.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:37:38 AM
I am aware the case on me is more than that BT. I said I was busy yesterday. I said while my read on Schezo previously was 'weak' that he hasn't done anything to change that, so I still have a weak scumread on him. My opinion has not changed, I simply think Sky and Lexicat are worse.

CF7 took 20 minutes to actually post reasons as to why he was actually voting Sky. And I dislike Sky because he seemed to have the impression that CF7 was voting him for his avatar. In fact he didn't seem to really address the post following it afterwards until I said 'I wasn't aware anyone was voting you for your avatar'. Which he wrote off as sort of 'generic stuff which doesn't matter'. As I said before; I am fully aware CF7 did not vote Sky for his avatar. It's how Sky reacted to the vote which makes me dislike him; in addittion to the reasons why Sky voted Dorian.

But what started this sudden flurry of votes as Affinity voting me for the 'Slam Dunk' that was me not noticeing Prims = Huhwhat.

I mean the reasoning you have in the post you voted me is 'I feel like there should be a wagon on Raikaria anyway'.

And seriously? You don't know what kind of meta I'm talking about? The same meta I use EVERY SINGLE GAME and harp on about EVERY SINGLE DAY 1. Heck; Schezo mentioned it previously. Town fight among each other D1; scum lurk it out; and town lynch the townie who slipped up.

that's fair but generally "doublevote" means two votes on the same person, hence why I thought you knew huhwhat = Prims at the time

I thought he was voting for 2 different people.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 09:39:07 AM
Affinity voting me for the 'Slam Dunk'
for FUCK'S SAKE
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:39:56 AM
And seriously? You don't know what kind of meta I'm talking about? The same meta I use EVERY SINGLE GAME and harp on about EVERY SINGLE DAY 1. Heck; Schezo mentioned it previously. Town fight among each other D1; scum lurk it out; and town lynch the townie who slipped up.

This is why I have a really; really bad read of Lexicat by the way. What content has has is bad [the 'everything'] and his content is awfully low in addition and scum tend to lurk out Day 1 to let vocal townies beat each other up [The 'nothing']

for FUCK'S SAKE

I don't even know how I did that.

I think it's because one of the quotes if by Affinity in the post @_@
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 09:40:51 AM
ok yeah sorry but at this point my read on raikaria is just "lol it's raikaria"
going to buy the recent responses as madtown but he might be the serial killer from darker than black

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan

dan is still scum
wish raikaria would respond to my initial response to his contentpost
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:44:17 AM
Had my plate full responding to people voting me for flawed reasons.

I'd happily lynch Dan as well at this point. It's just Lexicat's content that he was is godawful; which makes it worse than Dan's no content at all.

And one line of questioning Dan isn't enough to make me think Lexicat is town. Especially when Lexicat backed off so easily the instant Dan said 'It's the confirmation post' without any further explanation like what was so bad about my confirmation post.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:45:37 AM
Also I'm not voting Sky because I want to see what he does in the future. While his cases have been bad and he over-reacted IMO to CF7's vote on him, I do think it could be town intent, if somewhat misguided. While I think Sky is bad atm I think there could be town intent. I don't see that in Lexicat's posts really.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:48:29 AM
Then go on and tell me how he hasn't improved. I got a decent read out of his overnight posts.

Also this:

Things like Schezo only acknowledging that there are other people who fall under the same banner he was voting me for when Prims nudged him about it.

Quote
And my Raikaria vote isn't even a prod, just lynch him already.  Promising future content is cheep talk.

Quote
As for why I don't really care about dan is because I saw dorian say that votes on him are useless if he doesn't talk day 1 anyways and people won't lynch a lurker day 1 (which is true)
but I like you better after your responses to me so let's just wait for all that promised contentTM from like half of the players.  (moridin raikaria cf7 LLD)

So why has he been frankly tunneling on me and hardly talking about LLD/Moridin/CF7. Also he seems to be dismissing a lurker lynch while at the same time pushing for me to be lynched for a lack of content and 'promised content'. That's a double standard.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 09:52:17 AM
one last thing, everybody being willing to lynch Dan isn't really reason to be cautious about the wagon here @affinity because seriously, how are scum going to justify saving him right now?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 10:23:30 AM
Convenient Votecount

ActionDan: (3) Moridin84, CF7, Prims
Raikaria: (3) ActionDan, Schezo, BT
Prims: (2) Lexicat, Just
Schezo: (1) Dorian
Just: (1) Affinity
Dorian Mizuhashi: (1) Sky_Paladin
Lexicat: (1) Raikaria

Voteless: (0) None, captain

(Chagned the "2" on Schezo to a "1" since I'm pretty sure it's a mod error. See previous votecount where Raikaria was on Schezo.)

Will get to this in a bit.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 06, 2014, 12:01:55 PM
@Moridin: Can you tell me why you felt the need to claim? I don't think there was enough  pressure on you to justify is, so what was it that you tried to accomplish with it?
Mainly I was just exasperated at being given such a pointless role. I also thought I'd bring it up just in case there is some value to it that I missed.

I don't see any reason to hide a role like this anyway.

Quote from: Affinity
Nope, scum can feign wanting to vote their buddies, even to the point of lynch.  It's called bussing, and while I agree that it's unlikely for D1 it's not near impossible.  (even more so since policy lynches are really rare). 
Well yes, I'm aware that MAFIA players could fake vote their buddies, but I don't think it makes sense for Prims to draw attention to ActionDan there. And he's still pushing that lynch.

So I think that lynching ActionDan is a reasonable strategy. On top of trying to pressure him to be useful.

Or least I don't have a better on right now.

Quote from: Affinity
Answer my question; you think the cases presented so far are thin, but are they scummy or anything to you?
Short Answer:
Not really.

Long Answer:
The problem I have is that TOWN players here will often "make up reasons" to vote for people in order to generate noise and smoke out MAFIA. MAFIA players will also "make up reasons" to lynch people, though it their  case it's generally to cause confusion and redirect lynches onto TOWN players.

I find it hard to tell the difference between TOWN players "making up reasons" and MAFIA players "making up reasons". Weird right?

It should be easier as the game goes on because you can gather information on who voted for who and also notice "patterns of behaviour".
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Bardiche on September 06, 2014, 12:37:47 PM
Quote
Locking eyes with someone and generally waving off others as 'shades of red' is something I remember as particularly scummy, it gives their voteparks some depth and allows them to wait and see.
Every game I say everyone's red/Scum/green-coloured Scum. I don't see why it's more scummy of me this game than any other game?

Moridin should stop voting inactive people and vote people who he thinks are scummy; if you think the inactive people are scummy, quantify that they are and why they are more scummy than presently talking people.

I disagree with Affinity that "the only place my case can go is the past", in that the argument is incredibly weird. Everyone builds cases based on events that have already happened, and then use the responses to those cases to determine whether they still feel the same way. It feels like an eloquent way to say "Bard is voting over something that's already happened", which I happen to think is null. If I were voting for things that have yet to transpire, I'd start looking at myself oddly.

I don't like ActionDan (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125515.html#msg1125515), mostly because proddodging and refuging in audacity about it just isn't pro-Town play. The chief issue I have is that I can yell "it's scummy" all I like, but more than anything it's just not playing Mafia.

Huh What, I wrote my first post on my phone so I felt like being succinct. I'll take note not to do so again, but I'd like to point out that for all that your Town meta isn't static, you're usually not one to so pro-actively attempt to end RVS, let alone start (trying to) produce serious reads from the get-go.

I disagree with Town!Dan being pro-active. I think Dan is a shit player whatever alignment he has because he chronically refuses to play the game. I'll at least grant you that a Town!Dan would by now at least have made some reads, and all I see are prod dodges.

I agree re: BT's vote on me being weird chiefly because the reason for voting me is buried in all his other observations and reads, such that it seems an after-thought that he has reason to actually vote me. Feels more like a throw-away vote because he could than a genuine one, simply because his attention is so much more on other people and his only reason is "I agree with Huh What". Unlike BT, I don't remember every Mafia game. Remembering the last game is already unpleasant. "I don't buy his case" is, um, if everyone who's made a case I disagree with is scummy then I'm pretty sure we don't have enough lynches.

I dislike Raikaria's continuous harping that he's doing what he always does, as I happen to think Raikaria in the last game with his infuriating QT and ITP shenanigans was a lot more pro-active in questioning people and not sitting on his hands. If this behaviour keeps up Day 2, I would lynch it.

##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan

I happen to agree here though, I'd expected ActionDan to have made at least some sort of comment by now. You used to infuriate me with one-liners "this person is scum" etc, but now you're hardly doing anything. Which is reminiscent of last game.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 12:48:18 PM
Going through the thread for Raikaria posts.

Raikaria's claim at the beginning is that he does not "agree with the rather speculative stuff thrown around so far" (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125396.html#msg1125396) and his stated examples are Sky's vote and Bard's. What about CF7 voting Sky for his case? What about huhwhat voting Bard for his case? What about Affinity's vote? It gives the picture that Raikaria saw a few speculative votes and hurried to categorize them all under the same banner.

He follows up with that line I disliked earlier (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125397.html#msg1125397). In context, I don't get it; Raikaria said he just woke up and he'll be useful later, but here we are two and a half hours later. Also notable that "speculative cases" turned into "bad RVS cases" - at the end of the day I don't know why Raikaria chose not to comment on the post-RVS preceedings. Not having something solid is fine. Trying to disassociate yourself for no good reason is something else. I'd think that Raikaria as Town would pursue Sky (together with CF7, who he ignored) on his "speculative vote": "I mean, asking if a vote is serious at this state and fence-sitting on a silly RVS policy lynch? That's not really anything you can read into." Therefore... what? Raikaria doesn't have an opinion on Sky here, he just brings it up to say that he can't associate himself with it yet.

"I'm a little salty that Affinity unvoted from what may have been a double-vote just before the votecount came along." (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125542.html#msg1125542) This line makes Raikaria's fascination with Affinity's doublevote look fake. Why are you mad that we couldn't confirm Affinity's theoretical doublevote? Why would Affinity show off the doublevote in the first place, then unvote? Raikaria doesn't really question Affinity on this doublevote stuff and doesn't press him when he doesn't; it's just there as townie-looking filler.

In the same post: "I'm still mulling over Sky/CF7 interactions." It's been a few hours. Raikaria hasn't addressed the obviously stronger non-RVS stuff going on in the thread, sticking with "this is my best" Schezo vote. His contribution to Sky/CF7 has been to talk about Sky's reaction to the Cirno avatar and Sky's scumteam guesses, without reaching a conclusion. I don't see the mulling over he's "still" doing - seems more like he said it because that's the only thing he's addressed and he was signing off for the day, which is saying "hey, look, I didn't do anything with it today, please wait warmly until tomorrow and don't lynch me". My interpretation, mind you.

Raikaria's first 24 hours were spent disassociating with post-RVS stuff, reluctantly committing to a vote and reaching no new conclusions while the rest of the thread trucked onwards.

I'll post this now and let Raikaria respond to it. I'm not done.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 01:25:00 PM
Raikaria opens the second day with the realization that there are things he does not like... like LLD's attitude. Alright, not impossible, but the "totally up for it" attitude feels kind of smug when you're just quoting someone's posts and adding "weird confirmation post defense".

I said his take on Sky was wishy-washy. I think there's some artistic merit in it so I'll use colors:

I don't like anyone who used 'Fence Sitting' as an actual case. Because it's stupid and smells of just making up any reason to lynch people. I'm looking at Sky_Paladin and Bard here. People using confirmation posts as reasons people are scum is also bad especially when they do not explain how that post is scummy [Actiondan and Sky]

CF7's reason for voting Sky_Paladin isn't in CF7's vote post. It's the post after it. [#58] Yet Sky gets the impression he is being voted because of his avatar? Honestly; if CF7 was voting people for having a youkai avatar I'd have a noose around my neck already because my avatar is a youkai youkai and not a fairy.

Although; on the other hand; apparently it took 20 minutes for CF7 to post three lines about why he was actually voting Sky. So... IDK.

Sky also seems to severely over-react to CF7's vote on him [See: The wall he made, although it was a drunkpost]. But this is somewhat regular for Sky. I don't like the 'Prims ended RVS early he's bad' thing either.
Aside from how Raikaria could have brought this all up while he was "mulling over it" the day before, the vote is pretty shallow. It's a detached comment on suddenly "disliking arguments X, Y, Z" (again, why didn't this show up yesterday?) and how Sky overreacted.

I still believe "I don't particularly like Schezo's content and such still" is Raikaria slipping up in an attempt at holding a Schezo suspicion for later use. Raikaria rectifies: "my dislike for Schezo was 'weak' but he hasn't improved on it" (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125701.html#msg1125701). C'mon man, the only reason you parked on Schezo for 24 hours was because I nagged you to. In the first place I think it was dumb that you had to assert that Schezo is misrepping you for rightfully calling you out for disengaging with the post-RVS stuff. Who cares what noncommital things you said about the wagons as a whole? The intent was clear.

But no, Raikaria still doesn't like Schezo's content. It's so general and easy. Raikaria explains his dissatisfaction with Schezo later (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125732.html#msg1125732) and it's just a comment on what Schezo's been saying on him. It's a double standard only if you're a lurker too. Except you've been around, commenting on things without reaching conclusions and later saying you were "busy". That's more on the "active lurker" side.

Also I'm not voting Sky because I want to see what he does in the future. While his cases have been bad and he over-reacted IMO to CF7's vote on him, I do think it could be town intent, if somewhat misguided. While I think Sky is bad atm I think there could be town intent. I don't see that in Lexicat's posts really.
Tell me more about Sky's town misguided town intent and how it gels with his "overreactions". And how you don't see it in LLD's posts.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 01:40:18 PM
Bard's post doesn't add anything insightful, mostly agreeing/disagreeing and replying to arguments. Raikaria is one of the only suspicions of his I remember but he just opts to vote Dan over him after fleshing out the Raikaria read further and saying Dan isn't playing the game. Which is it, by the way? Is Dan more "not playing the game" than scummy, or is he "not playing the game", therefore just like last game? It feels like a weak way to find something more in Dan's non-content and I don't see why he isn't voting Raikaria.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 01:43:07 PM
I agree re: BT's vote on me being weird chiefly because the reason for voting me is buried in all his other observations and reads, such that it seems an after-thought that he has reason to actually vote me. Feels more like a throw-away vote because he could than a genuine one, simply because his attention is so much more on other people and his only reason is "I agree with Huh What". Unlike BT, I don't remember every Mafia game. Remembering the last game is already unpleasant. "I don't buy his case" is, um, if everyone who's made a case I disagree with is scummy then I'm pretty sure we don't have enough lynches.
By the way: not "buying it" refers to not believing it's legit, as in, thinking it's fake. My vote on you wasn't orthodox but I think I did make it as clear as possible, so this seems funny. Do you draw any conclusions from this or are you just pointing out my weird vote?

Dorian is next.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 01:53:29 PM
Dorian hasn't done much at all. His Schezo vote rides on his "eager voteswitch" and how other people said his Raikaria vote is unimpressive. Guess what: this vote isn't impressive either, especially when you  don't have other suspects.

What do you think about Sky? You only said he's "biased", which is how you'd refer to Town here.

Your response to Bard's wagon irks me too; Affinity's vote wasn't hard to parse, at the very least.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 01:56:50 PM
In fact: Sky, you said you found it weird that Dorian didn't react to your vote, but in a Town way. (judging from context) I think Dorian's pretty aggressive against people voting him when he's Town; I know from experience. I think it's notable that he didn't tear apart your potshot theory.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 02:12:55 PM
As per Bard's recommendation I checked last game's D1 and Raikaria is a lot more direct, has solid, clear opinions and easily reacts to the thread and finds things to talk about. Question: you got made fun of for being fooled by scum last game. Was your response to be less eager as Town for the next game?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 06, 2014, 02:37:02 PM
BT - I expected Dorian to respond to my case. The confirm post is one part. The Dan policy lynch fence sitting was another part. Dorian chose to hand wave it away as nonsensical. I didn't have an opportunity to follow this up because I am in my iPhone and its too difficult to quote, check and post. I just read the thread and sniff for clues. I wasn't satisfied with Dorians content which is why I am still voting him and listed him as scum in my last blarble.  I think Dorian is scum, I don't feel like anybody beleives me though.

The reason I would lynch Dan over other afk people is multiple.
1 - Dan is chronically afk and it seems like every game on LYLO or the day before LYLO there is a big jama over not knowing his alignment due to lack of posting. It's a problem.
2 - Dan his strategy is to lurk, we want to do, discourage this anti social tendency by lynching lurkers. In any case he can always get out by posting content.
3 - this game he already posted and had no comment on the three or four things that were happening and made no effort. It frustrates me。

I thought I would have a good chance to go through the thread. I don't. I am on holiday and sent v/la to mod but igurss it was too drink post lol. At this stage I am willing so sheep BT on Raikaria because I think BT is town. I am suspiciois of Bard voting Dan over Rai.

I am going to have to break my promise of more content to come this day phase. I will be home for the next one.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Bardiche on September 06, 2014, 02:56:26 PM
I'm voting Dan because Dan is replicating his behaviour from the last game where he was Scum, and to be quite frank I'm sick of people who sign up to play and then consequently refuse to do so.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 03:29:53 PM
Now I'm confused.

I didn't expect you to ignore my case and vote for some other guy though.  Ill have to srot this mess out when I havel ess alcohol.
Here, didn't you see it as a town-y think Dorian did? Also Dorian isn't getting lynched today so get on a wagon before you disappear.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 03:31:25 PM
EBWOP: thing, not think

Dan was online an hour ago. This is pretty dumb.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 03:35:39 PM
As per Bard's recommendation I checked last game's D1 and Raikaria is a lot more direct, has solid, clear opinions and easily reacts to the thread and finds things to talk about. Question: you got made fun of for being fooled by scum last game. Was your response to be less eager as Town for the next game?

My confidence has taken a knock. So yes. I guess that could be why I'm less eager.

"I'm a little salty that Affinity unvoted from what may have been a double-vote just before the votecount came along." (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125542.html#msg1125542) This line makes Raikaria's fascination with Affinity's doublevote look fake. Why are you mad that we couldn't confirm Affinity's theoretical doublevote? Why would Affinity show off the doublevote in the first place, then unvote? Raikaria doesn't really question Affinity on this doublevote stuff and doesn't press him when he doesn't; it's just there as townie-looking filler.

It's not townie-looking filler. I thought Affinity was voting two different people. I was waiting for the votecount for that to be confirmed or denied. That sort of role is non-indicative of town or scum, but it's still something useful to know.

Of course I'm a moron who thought Affinity was voting for two different people, not Prims in two different ways.

Tell me more about Sky's town misguided town intent and how it gels with his "overreactions". And how you don't see it in LLD's posts.

Sky's has misguided town intent because he is at least attempting to form cases and look for scum. It's not great and I don't like his Dorian case one bit but he could he a townie just making bad cases. Sky does this quite a lot. He also tends to over-react to votes. Lexicat is basically doing nothing at all. He even outright says 'I don't have anything.'


I still believe "I don't particularly like Schezo's content and such still" is Raikaria slipping up in an attempt at holding a Schezo suspicion for later use. Raikaria rectifies: "my dislike for Schezo was 'weak' but he hasn't improved on it" (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125701.html#msg1125701). C'mon man, the only reason you parked on Schezo for 24 hours was because I nagged you to. In the first place I think it was dumb that you had to assert that Schezo is misrepping you for rightfully calling you out for disengaging with the post-RVS stuff. Who cares what noncommital things you said about the wagons as a whole? The intent was clear.

But no, Raikaria still doesn't like Schezo's content. It's so general and easy. Raikaria explains his dissatisfaction with Schezo later (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125732.html#msg1125732) and it's just a comment on what Schezo's been saying on him. It's a double standard only if you're a lurker too. Except you've been around, commenting on things without reaching conclusions and later saying you were "busy". That's more on the "active lurker" side.

I have already explained why I do not like Schezo's posts. I have nothing else to say on the matter. You're free to think whatever you think about my read on Schezo. I do not think highly of his content so far and he has yet to do anything which in my eyes makes he recover from his somewhat bad first impression he gave me this game. I'm allowed to say I have a minor scumread on someone but a stronger one on other people. I probobly will not be swapping back to Schezo unless he does something really bad or both Sky and Lexicat impress me, while no-one else slips up.

I mean, here you're basically hammering me for sharing my scumreads? It's a weak scumread but people want reads so I'm giving reads. It feels like you're giving me a catch-22 situation here.

And no; Schezo is advocating a double standard by saying a Lurker Lynch is not going to happen, when his case on me is a lack of content; also known as lurking. He can't dismiss one wagon as 'lurker lynches are not happening' and then push on me for lack of content.

And you know when I am evaluating cases I tend to say things on both sides of arguments. I consider the whole argument, I do not just look at one side. Hence the blue and red stuff you highlighted.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 06, 2014, 03:41:05 PM
BT - I didn't think it was towny, I thought town would...I don't know, do something. I didn't think it was telling either way really. I put out a case and the response was essentially "lol" I think anybody would be unimpressed with that
If Dan can't be bothered to post at this junction I can't be bothered to waste any more time on him. Apologies to Bard for now essentially doing the same thing I just criticized him for.

## unvote
##vote ActionDan
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 03:51:51 PM
...
Dorian you think I made a serious vote 1 page into the game.  The Raikaria vote has something even if it's "easy" to make.  I had no reason to keep an rvs vote, u srs?
And my Raikaria vote isn't even a prod, just lynch him already.  Promising future content is cheep talk.
...
Yes, you followed a proposal that you recognized as serious, so that was indeed what I was thinking. And it's needless to say that you hand waving it away as RVS is the last thing I want to hear. I mean what should I think now about your recent Dan vote? Was that another ?LOL, lets go with it!??
I'm begin to get comfortable with where my vote is.

@Sky: What is the meaning of this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125710.html#msg1125710)? You see, the idea of you getting biased and confident in the ?nonsense? that you call a case, is something I can live with. But you going for consolidation over me is something that that really seems ?out of character?.
So, can you tell me why you prefer a Raikaria lunch over the scums that you apparently ?caught red-handed? (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125503.html#msg1125503)?

one last thing, everybody being willing to lynch Dan isn't really reason to be cautious about the wagon here @affinity because seriously, how are scum going to justify saving him right now?
I may not Affinity but that's relevant for me too. I assume that scum's able to ?saving him? the same way anyone else could, by pointing out the fact that Dan not caring about the game doesn't means he's scum.
Also, let's say we lynched Dan and he ?flipped something?, what do you hope to get out of this ?general agreement??
And I would like to see Bard addressing that point too.

@Moridin: I was wondering, cause it seems that you just claimed to have something to say. Sure, I could see you getting frustrated about it but there is still the point that you were also worried about getting counter claimed. So tell me, why did you think that scum would counter claim a role you see as pointless to begin with that's also easy to prove to top it?


I should get this out before I go to BTs twitter outburst.
My currently preferred lunch would be Schezo for ?LOL wagoning?, Sky for inconsistency and to a much lesser degree Moridin for active lurking.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 04:05:15 PM
So that's L-2.

Sorry about not clarifying earlier Raikaria it kinda skipped my mind while I was typing up a post and I forgot about it.  Not willing to put that against him though.

Bard's last post is really unimpressive in that I don't know what happened to his huhwhat suspicion.  He summarizes the cases on others, finds them all suspicious and chooses ActionDan arbitrarily.  And most infuriatingly he approaches none of them with the vigor he showed against huhwhat.  It's like he went into the argument with the latter just for it's own sake.

I would really prefer his lynch most today but maybe that's not gonna happen.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 06, 2014, 04:31:30 PM
You missed more in the slow parts.
...But your syncopation sounded great!

ActionDan: (5) Moridin84, CF7, Prims, Just, Sky Paladin (L-2)
Raikaria: (3) ActionDan, Schezo, BT,
Just: (1) Affinity
Prims: (1) Lexicat
Schezo: (1) Dorian
Lexicat: (1) Raikaria

7 Votes needed for Majority
Less than 8 hours left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140906T1915&p0=2374&msg=Day+one+End)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 04:33:23 PM
I guess I'll vote Actiondan if deadline rolls around. I have no qualms about lynching him for his chronic lurking. Just... not a lot to say about NoActionDan.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 04:56:59 PM
Just saying that I prefer the Raikaria lynch or even the LLD lynch much more than the Dan lynch. 

I'm actually quite torn on Raikaria.  While I don't buy everything in the case against him, I have to agree that his D2 hireachy of scum suspects: Schezo < Paladin < LLD, feels weird and arbitrary.  As BT says in his red/blue post, Raikaria's opinion on Sky_Paladin is actually multi-faceted, which is fine. But then, since he can see the town side of Sky, why does he place him before Schezo, who he was chasing the whole of D1 and whom he had only bad things to say?

I can forgive his ignorance of other issues on day one such as the Bard/huhwhat fight and stuff, since other people think so too, but yeah, his hanging out with the small fishies doesn't bring anything redeeming.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 05:12:21 PM
I think the Dan wagon is rotten.  The player slot is rotten (and probably deserves a yellow/red card for now), and the people on it are rotten. 

First of all, the bandwagon's saturated, almost everyone except Dorian has stated their willingness to vote Dan.  Being on or off this wagon doesn't really provide much of a distinction, and the bandwagon analysis on D2 will be quite useless on the ensuing flip.

Secondly, it is interesting to consider that Sky_Paladin, CF7, miordin and Bardiche have all voted for ActionDan without considering Lexicat, who boasts a similar amount of content.  Why is this so?  Why Dan over LLD?  Only huhwhat has provided a reason, and it's based on arcane meta-tells that no one else understands.  I know Lexicat has had the reputation of being unpleasant when voted, but three of the people on the wagon can't know that well.  I don't think the wagon has been well-thought out.

By all means, Dan should claim, but I think people should take the above into consideration.  Would still love to lynch Bard, but Raikaria is the better relevant lynch for today.

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 05:24:09 PM
Echoing Affinity. I'm willing to vote Dan but it's really sketchy; the only valid reason I see is that he literally ejected from reading the thread on page 4, but that's not that telling. It's basically an "I got nothing better lynch", and 1) I do have better things, 2) it disturbs me that many on the wagon apparently don't.

I'll get to Raikaria's defense but it hasn't wowed me. It counters specific points with explanations that don't really satisfy. Like, I still prefer my take on things.

Dorian's latest post feels slimy, probably because of the way he furthers his reads. It's just... detached, disagreeable, a little overblown/sensational, more in line with what I remember from Scum Dorian in that one game with the Serela/Affinity/Dorian scumteam.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 05:25:43 PM
Just saying that I prefer the Raikaria lynch or even the LLD lynch much more than the Dan lynch. 

I'm actually quite torn on Raikaria.  While I don't buy everything in the case against him, I have to agree that his D2 hireachy of scum suspects: Schezo < Paladin < LLD, feels weird and arbitrary.  As BT says in his red/blue post, Raikaria's opinion on Sky_Paladin is actually multi-faceted, which is fine. But then, since he can see the town side of Sky, why does he place him before Schezo, who he was chasing the whole of D1 and whom he had only bad things to say?

I can forgive his ignorance of other issues on day one such as the Bard/huhwhat fight and stuff, since other people think so too, but yeah, his hanging out with the small fishies doesn't bring anything redeeming.

Not sure why you're voting me when you are 'torn' on me and think the Dan slot is 'rotten'.

I think Sky is worse than Schezo because I feel Sky's cases are worse than Schezo's after thinking about it and sleeping. Yesterday I was busy and didn't actually have that much time to think things over. I only said stuff about Schezo when prodded to do something, after all. I basically feel that Sky's Dorian case and reaction to being voted is worse than Schezo's [in my eyes] minor misrep and slight tunneling.

I'll get to Raikaria's defense but it hasn't wowed me. It counters specific points with explanations that don't really satisfy. Like, I still prefer my take on things.

Well I'd prefer to look for sum than defend myself all the time. But it's Day 1. Town people slap each other and scum sit around and laugh. It's hard to find scum D1 by looking at their posts because of this. Lurkscum usually actually are scum D1.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 05:27:59 PM
Hell; look at the level of your own content and Serela and Mordin last game.

Not exactly high. Especially compared to normal. Especially comparing this game to last game. You are FAR more active this game than last BT. I had not just the main topic but my quicktopic with !ScumBT last game. I'm actually townreading you pretty heavily despite you attacking me for a large part due to your activity level compared to your last game where you were scum.

Scum lurk. It's a pretty proven fact here.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 05:33:43 PM
It's not townie-looking filler. I thought Affinity was voting two different people. I was waiting for the votecount for that to be confirmed or denied. That sort of role is non-indicative of town or scum, but it's still something useful to know.

Of course I'm a moron who thought Affinity was voting for two different people, not Prims in two different ways.
Eh, I believe you that you thought Affinity had something but you didn't actually go anywhere with it. Why didn't you press Affinity if you cared? The "aww, he unvoted" thing rubbed me the wrong way because it's like, "yeah, so?"

Sky's has misguided town intent because he is at least attempting to form cases and look for scum. It's not great and I don't like his Dorian case one bit but he could he a townie just making bad cases. Sky does this quite a lot. He also tends to over-react to votes. Lexicat is basically doing nothing at all. He even outright says 'I don't have anything.'
You can use this defense on anyone who's attempting to play the game. LLD's easier for you to push (or Sky harder) at this juncture because she isn't playing. This "town mindset" thing sounds like you aren't actually looking at Sky's effort, just stating that the effort is there.

I have already explained why I do not like Schezo's posts. I have nothing else to say on the matter. You're free to think whatever you think about my read on Schezo. I do not think highly of his content so far and he has yet to do anything which in my eyes makes he recover from his somewhat bad first impression he gave me this game. I'm allowed to say I have a minor scumread on someone but a stronger one on other people. I probobly will not be swapping back to Schezo unless he does something really bad or both Sky and Lexicat impress me, while no-one else slips up.

I mean, here you're basically hammering me for sharing my scumreads? It's a weak scumread but people want reads so I'm giving reads. It feels like you're giving me a catch-22 situation here.
I'm not attacking you for naming a weak scumread, I'm attacking you for what looks like a fake weak scumread. Bleh, this admittedly isn't that strong. I don't like this defense though, you're saying I'm slamming you for naming the read when that's obviously not the case.

Finally:

And you know when I am evaluating cases I tend to say things on both sides of arguments. I consider the whole argument, I do not just look at one side. Hence the blue and red stuff you highlighted.
There's a different between balancing your opinion and offsetting each of your points with "yeah, but", which I find is a common scum move, it gives you wriggle room and stuff and you come off as someone who's unsure of anything.

CUT: I got cut!
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 05:41:47 PM
Hmm, you say you thought about Sky and Schezo overnight, but you didn't really scumread Sky until this morning. What's up?

I'm also not the biggest fan of "dude, the lurkers" because, yes, there are lurkers, but come on. If you want to start talking about content levels, I think Bard was more active last game. And Schezo was probably less active. And you were more active.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 05:43:56 PM
Can we get a replacement for Dan and have two normal wagons today? Please?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 06, 2014, 06:40:38 PM
@Moridin: I was wondering, cause it seems that you just claimed to have something to say. Sure, I could see you getting frustrated about it but there is still the point that you were also worried about getting counter claimed. So tell me, why did you think that scum would counter claim a role you see as pointless to begin with that's also easy to prove to top it?
I wasn't seriously worried about being counter claimed. I just noticed an explicit statement in my role PM stating I was the only one with this ability, so I just included it in.

So is my role useful then? It seems pointless to me and no one has really said otherwise.

Quote from: Affinity
Secondly, it is interesting to consider that Sky_Paladin, CF7, miordin and Bardiche have all voted for ActionDan without considering Lexicat, who boasts a similar amount of content.  Why is this so?  Why Dan over LLD?  Only huhwhat has provided a reason, and it's based on arcane meta-tells that no one else understands.  I know Lexicat has had the reputation of being unpleasant when voted, but three of the people on the wagon can't know that well.  I don't think the wagon has been well-thought out.
I actually did vote for Lexicat originally. I switched to Action because of the "strategy" I talked about before. Admittedly, if ActionDan wasn't so inactive, I might not be as willing to lynch him.

So anyway.

The two main people against this ActionDan lynch are Affinity and BT.

They both claim that they aren't against a ActionDan lynch, that they just think Raikaria is a better target. However, it is possible that it is just an excuse and that in reality they want to redirect the ActionDan lynch onto someone else and Raikaria seems the next best thing.

So if ActionDan comes up MAFIA, I'd be inclined to think that Prims is TOWN  and that Affinity and/or BT are MAFIA.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 07:08:39 PM
Quote
I actually did vote for Lexicat originally. I switched to Action because of the "strategy" I talked about before. Admittedly, if ActionDan wasn't so inactive, I might not be as willing to lynch him

fair enough

Quote
So if ActionDan comes up MAFIA, I'd be inclined to think that Prims is TOWN  and that Affinity and/or BT are MAFIA.

and if raikaria flips scum the converse is true and everyone else is scummy!

woah mafia is so easy!

what do YOU think of the raikaria case, moridin?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 07:10:07 PM
man raikaria's superficial.  im disheartened.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 07:21:57 PM
Hmm, you say you thought about Sky and Schezo overnight, but you didn't really scumread Sky until this morning. What's up?

I'm also not the biggest fan of "dude, the lurkers" because, yes, there are lurkers, but come on. If you want to start talking about content levels, I think Bard was more active last game. And Schezo was probably less active. And you were more active.

I'd say Schezo's about the same actually. Bard is less active.

But the difference between your scum activity levels and what I assume is your town activity levels being displayed here is massive BT. I must remember for the future if you're lurking it's a huge scumtell in your regard.

Affinity why am I being superficial when I'm pointing out common MotK meta and even player meta?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 07:25:28 PM
Hmm, you say you thought about Sky and Schezo overnight, but you didn't really scumread Sky until this morning. What's up?

Because I hadn't made my mind up where I stood on the Sky interactions and who was worse yet. Not gonna state opinions on who's worse at a time where I am not sure BT.

Also with less than 5 hours left and me being the secondary wagon I think it's time for me to put ActionDan at L-1. Maybe he'll show up and do something useful at L-1. Who knows. I'm fine with this because he's lurking to the max but it's also Not Me Over Me.

#Unvote
#Vote: ActionDan
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 07:26:37 PM
Also deadline being at like 1am my local time means I won't be around if I hold off.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 07:31:15 PM
I wasn't seriously worried about being counter claimed. I just noticed an explicit statement in my role PM stating I was the only one with this ability, so I just included it in.

So is my role useful then? It seems pointless to me and no one has really said otherwise.
No it's useful. You have the thread to yourself for the night. Use it to post your thoughts when you're traversing the thread and force everyone to get a read on you / listen to what you say.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 07:31:32 PM
@BT: Geez, I do thinks when I get around to do them, so have a bit patience. And I'm not aggressive against people voting me, I'm aggressive against people who use their plain inability to understand my reasons to vote me.
I think my last post should give you a better idea why I think Schezo is scum. And yes I saw Sky as town till the post I pointed out. I thought that doing a psychoanalysis on my confirmation post is just too flimsy to fake confidants in but being confidant in it and drop it strikes me as odd.
And on the matter of Bard do I have to wonder, cause Affinitys ?Bards case can only lead in to the past? was the most esoteric vote on the wagon. 0_0 Yes I think Bard overreacted to HW but was it a scum overreaction? I don't think so.
Anyway, I have to say that your Raikaria case is quite impressive. Maybe I didn't payed enough attention to his post cause I wasn't aware that they were that inconclusive. So I guess that where my   consolidation vote will go if no one votes Schezo in the next 3-4 hours.
Not that I see it happen but you know, hope dies last.^^;

...
Dorian's latest post feels slimy, probably because of the way he furthers his reads. It's just... detached, disagreeable, a little overblown/sensational, more in line with what I remember from Scum Dorian in that one game with the Serela/Affinity/Dorian scumteam.
OK, what does  detached even mean in that context?

@Sky: What exactly should I have done with your case on me? Saying it was just a confirmation post? Cause that's what it was, and I addressed ?The Dan policy lynch fence sitting?.
You went even as far as constructing a whole scum team, with interaction tells and everything, around that. Sorry, but there is nothing I could say about that, cause words fail me here.


@Affinity: I can only agree with your point about the Dan wagon. And your ?why Dan and not Lucy? point is also an interesting observation, which brings me to the question what you actually think about the girl herself.
I'm not sure but I remember her being more forceful and more important present.

@Moridin: Your role is as useful as what you do with it. Think about it that way, at night is the stage all yours and you get towns undivided attention. So is there really nothing that you could do with it?
Also, I think that I said in my last post that I'm currently against a Dan lynch too, does it makes me scum as likely as Affinity and BT if Dan flips scum?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 07:49:17 PM
It's honestly inhibitive to post when there's 8 pages from 11 player slots in less than 2 days.  This didn't happen in the past.  These are simply new standards when people have more free time than what's good for them I suppose. 

Blame me, card me, call me names, I don't even care. 

But this is what you get if you want to post mountains.

To even have a semblance of an idea of what's happening this game past the first 3 pages I'd have to spend half a day reading this bullshit.

And it's bullshit if you guys can produce that much material in 2 days.  W/e

I'm a VT.  Karate Joe for flavor.

By about page 3 I was feeling Raikaria > Prims > all the rest.  And Bardiche is, once again, town.  Also LLD.  Beyond that good luck.  I'd barely presume to guess
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 07:50:36 PM
Actually I can guess Schezo's town.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 07:54:56 PM
Actually I thought of something and wanted to post it before I went to sleep.

At the start of the game Prims wanted to policy lynch ActionDan right? In which case, isn't it almost impossible that the both of them are MAFIA? That means, if we lynch ActionDan and he turns up MAFIA, Prims would be practically confirmed TOWN.

The downside here is that we learn nothing at all if he is TOWN.

This can technically be applied to any "arguing couples" but it is much, much weaker.

##vote ActionDan

See you in 10-12 hours.

##Vote Moridin

Okay that was easy enough I guess.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:01:54 PM
lmao 2/2/2/2 wagons (also Schezo only has 1 vote barring mayor!Dorian)

I'll go Dan > Raikaria > Bard, Dan first because he's inactive AND scummy and Raikaria over Bard mostly because Bard will be less of a headache to read later compared to the other two. Utility lynching in 2014 but what are you gonna do about it.

More realistically though, I leave my vote on Dan before going to bed late at night so you guys are railroaded into consolidating onto my scumread when I sleep past deadline (fuck alarms).

Considering this is a constant refrain in all of Prims posts I'd say he's touching up on the "Dan is scummy part [for presumably not expanding on the raikaria vote eagerly enough]" past where a town HW might.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:04:55 PM
So... I'd lynch Dan, as sort counter measure to his D1 lethargy.
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
for now.
Maybe it will energize him enough to actually post something.

also this.

Also lol at Prims voting raikaria at some point.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:07:56 PM
Mainly I was just exasperated at being given such a pointless role. I also thought I'd bring it up just in case there is some value to it that I missed.

I don't see any reason to hide a role like this anyway.
Well yes, I'm aware that MAFIA players could fake vote their buddies, but I don't think it makes sense for Prims to draw attention to ActionDan there. And he's still pushing that lynch.

So I think that lynching ActionDan is a reasonable strategy. On top of trying to pressure him to be useful.

Or least I don't have a better on right now.
Short Answer:
Not really.

Long Answer:
The problem I have is that TOWN players here will often "make up reasons" to vote for people in order to generate noise and smoke out MAFIA. MAFIA players will also "make up reasons" to lynch people, though it their  case it's generally to cause confusion and redirect lynches onto TOWN players.

I find it hard to tell the difference between TOWN players "making up reasons" and MAFIA players "making up reasons". Weird right?

It should be easier as the game goes on because you can gather information on who voted for who and also notice "patterns of behaviour".

one more out of place bullshit post.  i.e. every written word.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:13:01 PM
I wasn't seriously worried about being counter claimed. I just noticed an explicit statement in my role PM stating I was the only one with this ability, so I just included it in.

So is my role useful then? It seems pointless to me and no one has really said otherwise.
I actually did vote for Lexicat originally. I switched to Action because of the "strategy" I talked about before. Admittedly, if ActionDan wasn't so inactive, I might not be as willing to lynch him.

So anyway.

The two main people against this ActionDan lynch are Affinity and BT.

They both claim that they aren't against a ActionDan lynch, that they just think Raikaria is a better target. However, it is possible that it is just an excuse and that in reality they want to redirect the ActionDan lynch onto someone else and Raikaria seems the next best thing.

So if ActionDan comes up MAFIA, I'd be inclined to think that Prims is TOWN  and that Affinity and/or BT are MAFIA.

I bet there will be an association between me flipping MAFIA and a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis at this point.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:13:47 PM
EBWOP: thing, not think

Dan was online an hour ago. This is pretty dumb.

U WOT M8
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 08:15:18 PM
There's still time to lynch Raikaria
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:16:02 PM
forget Raikaria,  I'll stick with MORIDIN
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 08:17:29 PM
Nah dood we lynch him tomorrow. Lynch Raikaria 2day
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:19:09 PM
MORIDIN who may or may not be MAFIA.

If MORIDIN is MAFIA I think that probably I am not MAFIA.

and if I am not MAFIA, then I think we can't say that Prims is TOWN.

And if Prims is not TOWN, then I don't think I am MAFIA

and if I am not MAFIA, then I think Affinity may also not be MAFIA.

But where does that leave...

BT!
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 08:20:47 PM
BT is my boi tho

Can we not?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:22:28 PM
4 hours left. 

OK I guess I'll go for Raikaria

I mean why not.

Gotta vote your cw to live. 

Gotta live to win (probably).

pedit:  It is a mystery! we all must find out by killing him slowly with votes.  Thus

##Vote Raikaria
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 08:26:04 PM
That's totally you sheeping me amirite?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 06, 2014, 08:27:51 PM
Quote from: Affinity
and if raikaria flips scum the converse is true and everyone else is scummy!

woah mafia is so easy!

what do YOU think of the raikaria case, moridin?
Haha. No. I'm just saying it would make you very suspicious in my eyes.

So anyway,  the case against Raikaria is that initially he didn't post  that much, and then points he made were weak and inconclusive, was very defensive, and overall acted very differently compared to the last game? Right?

Most of that is fairly reasonable, the problem is that a bunch of players were like this in the last game and turned out to be TOWN, so I'm wary about trusting that. Right now I don't really trust these inconclusive "towntells" or "scumtells".

Raikaria acting so differently is really suspicious though. However, I don't know how he acted in games before the last one. I think that last game he was on a "power trip" due to being a "neighbourizer" and having secret hommies to back him up. Has anyone played other games with him?

Dorion is actually the opposite of this. He seems a lot more reasonable in this game, not sure what the story with that is.

Quote from: Dorion
Also, I think that I said in my last post that I'm currently against a Dan lynch too, does it makes me scum as likely as Affinity and BT if Dan flips scum?
Actually, re-reading Affinity's posts, he's not actually gone against Raikaria that forcefully. It's mostly BT.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:33:21 PM
That's totally you sheeping me amirite?

Sure.  I said you were town. You thi k raikaria needs ti die. We will call it sheeping. Instead of the looked down upon art of survival.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 08:36:33 PM
n1ce
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 08:38:31 PM
Dan doesn't look like he's scum. Dan why are you sure Moridin is MAFIA and not TOWN and why do you think Bard is Town? I read those posts too.

For the record it would have been better to not leave us guessing if you're planning to play the game at all. And I totally saw you online 6 hours ago.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:42:40 PM
Dan doesn't look like he's scum. Dan why are you sure Moridin is MAFIA and not TOWN and why do you think Bard is Town? I read those posts too.

For the record it would have been better to not leave us guessing if you're planning to play the game at all. And I totally saw you online 6 hours ago.

Why is Moridin voting me again?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:43:17 PM
I see I left you speechless.   
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 08:45:34 PM
More like my mouth was full with croissant

Is he... still voting you for associative stuff

Sigh
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 08:48:03 PM
@Dan: What the hell are you talking about, I remember games where I had to read 4-5 pages just to catch up on what I missed at night.
And honestly, if it's needed to put you on L-1 to do something then you got it coming.
All that matters for me right now is:

Actually I can guess Schezo's town.
What makes you think so?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 08:48:52 PM
Also.

Maybe I shouldn't role claim at this point but apparently my "role" is to "be able to talk during the night phase". It seems a pretty pointless role, I'm thinking I must have rolled vanilla TOWN and the mod decided it would be funny to give me the ability to post more, considering how little I posted in the last game. Apparently I'm the only one with the ability to post in the night phase. So if anyone else claims it we should lynch him, for being a poser.

If anyone doubts my claim (lol) then be sure to remind me to post during the night just before this phase ends. Otherwise, it's possible I will have gotten over my indignation and forgotten all about it by then.
Thoughts on this?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 08:54:31 PM
@Dorian:  Intuition

@BT: Null
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 09:14:51 PM
@Dorian:  Intuition

@BT: Null
Is that so? Is that really all you can say to prove me wrong? Throw me at least a bone if you want me to pick up the fight for you.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 09:15:24 PM
[/b] Vote: Rakaria [/b]
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 09:15:46 PM
errrrrr

Vote: Rakaria

Incase mod doesn't like fixing tags.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 09:21:49 PM
Is that so? Is that really all you can say to prove me wrong? Throw me at least a bone if you want me to pick up the fight for you.

I don't need your love.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 09:23:13 PM
Another Convenient Votecount

ActionDan: (6) Moridin84, CF7, Prims, Bardiche, Sky_Paladin, Raikaria
Raikaria: (5) Schezo, BT, Affinity, ActionDan, LLD
Schezo: (1) Dorian

Voteless: (0) This contract has expired
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 06, 2014, 09:24:28 PM
I need to get my act together!

ActionDan: (6) Moridin84, CF7, Prims, Just, Sky Paladin, Raikaria, (L-1)
Raikaria: (5) Schezo, BT, Affinity, ActionDan, Lexicat (L-2)
Schezo: (1) Dorian

7 Votes needed for Majority
Less than 3 hours left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140906T1915&p0=2374&msg=Day+one+End)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 09:25:20 PM
Also deadline being at like 1am my local time means I won't be around if I hold off.
??? Don't know if he's coming back, should have made him claim.

hi5 Zak
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 09:26:02 PM
dang zak got slammed rip

I deserve it, My post only came second because I was fixing two errors in my previous votecount. :ohdear:
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 09:30:17 PM
I don't really care what Rakaria claims? Dan is pretty town in my eyes, and Rakaria's posting is kinda eh.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 09:30:52 PM
correction.  I guess I do need Dorian's love here.

it's slightly awks when Mr. Dorian has a scum read that I think is town.

hmm.  I change my mind, Schezo is the scum of the earth!
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 09:31:28 PM
Also, the thing I wanted to follow up on involves Sky Paladin, so I'm gonna hold on to it for the moment, since it's not relevant to this lynch.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 09:32:04 PM
Dorian,  I'm wagering Dan is town here. Schezo isn't getting lynched today. Why aren't you voting Rakaria?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 09:33:45 PM
##Vote Schezo

I can't help it but you agreed with HuhWhat a bit too eagerly for my liking and your Raikaria vote isn't impressive either. So what's your reason to exchange your prod vote  on Dan for one one Raikaria?
I mean, are you really satisfied with Dans ?content? or was that agreement just lip service?

TIME TO SHAMELESSLY CATER.

starting with looking at what schezo did up to this point and for the sake of time issues not look past this point
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 09:34:40 PM
correction.  I guess I do need Dorian's love here.

it's slightly awks when Mr. Dorian has a scum read that I think is town.

hmm.  I change my mind, Schezo is the scum of the earth!
That's too late now, tell me what made Schezo town in your eyes or else ...
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 09:38:52 PM
That's too late now, tell me what made Schezo town in your eyes or else ...

If you hammer Dan, I'm putting a bullet between your eyes tonight. How about that for an incentive?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 09:39:25 PM
Can I cater a party?!
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 09:42:38 PM
I dunno his demeanor.  posting style.  MAYBE ITS JUST HIS MUSCULAR CATBOI AVI.  MAYBE I AM WEAK TO ITS CHARMS.

But actually your vote and criticism for schezo in the place I quoted is weak.  At the time of Schezo voting Raikaria it was page 3.  Schezo voted me page 1.  You can't expect someone to be diehard commited to a page 1 vote for any reason.  switching because he thought Raikaria didn't do enough on page 3 instead of keeping to the guy who didn't do... enough? ... on page 1 is not that awful, taken in that precise context.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 09:47:14 PM
Dorian shouldn't hammer until Prims is back anyway.

Kind of bothered CF7 and Bard just dropped off the face of the day so quick. The votes fall apart the instant Dan shows up and starts posting, which they're not here for.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:47:55 PM
Popped in just before going to sleep to see if I needed to claim or not.

Appears I do.

I just a 'Nilla.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 09:49:26 PM
Hey maybe they are scowling from behind their computers at my posts which they think are complete trash. 

Also I don't really think Raikaria is scum here.  TBH. 

Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Moridin on September 06, 2014, 09:50:08 PM
So ActionDan barely posts for the last few days, and then just when he is about to be lynched, he makes a barrage of posts. Is that how you tell someone is TOWN?

Well whatever, Raikeria seems pretty suspious.

Tired. Going to sleep, see you in 10-12 hours.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 09:51:07 PM
it's the shocking truth
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:51:22 PM
Also Lexicat showing up and voting me with 0 reasoning and threatening Dorian with death should he vote for Dan. Not to mention his 'I don't care what Raikaria claims'.

This is laughable. Shouldn't this be setting off red flags to everyone?

Cut by Dan. His post surprises me. Maybe it's just Lexicat who's not town but I have to vote for Not Me Over Me. In an ideal world we would be lynching Lexicat; but at this point unvoting Dan is just signing my own death warrant.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 09:54:28 PM
And Moridin sticks to voting Dan anyway. Okay. Just reminding you to flood the thread with posts at night please.

Also I don't really think Raikaria is scum here.  TBH. 
I have the occasional fear that these are all town wagons but I keep telling myself to ignore it. Just. It's like I've done this D1 case on Raikaria at least twice before, and every time it seems THIS TIME Raikaria is scum. It's horrible.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 09:55:50 PM
I have the occasional fear that these are all town wagons but I keep telling myself to ignore it. Just. It's like I've done this D1 case on Raikaria at least twice before, and every time it seems THIS TIME Raikaria is scum. It's horrible.

I can assure you this is not the time BT.

Anyway; I'm going to sleep. I don't like the outcome of Day 1 as per usual but hopefully we lynch the guy who isn't even playing the game given the chance between us two.

I still think Lexicat should be lynched with the intensity of a thousand suns.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 09:58:06 PM
Your words cut me deep.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 09:58:22 PM
Rakaria's recent posts sound like someone who is caught for the wrong reasons. He's not upset that I'm voting him but rather that I'm voting him with "no basis".

This is all anyone should need to confirm a vote on this wagon, especially over someone like Dan who is towntelling like mad.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 10:01:04 PM
TIME TO SHAMELESSLY CATER.

starting with looking at what schezo did up to this point and for the sake of time issues not look past this point
I'm going with my memory for now. He was focused on Raikaria, aside from is supposed RVS vote, for being late and non participating, on it's own not a point against him but why did he go with a serious wagon without a serious reason?

If you hammer Dan, I'm putting a bullet between your eyes tonight. How about that for an incentive?
That's the Lucy I missed all the time. ~ <3 I'll just try to get things out of him, so don't worry.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 10:01:48 PM
Rakaria's recent posts sound like someone who is caught for the wrong reasons. He's not upset that I'm voting him but rather that I'm voting him with "no basis".

This is all anyone should need to confirm a vote on this wagon, especially over someone like Dan who is towntelling like mad.

I'm glad I stuck around long enough to see this reponse.

Lexicat; you have done nothing all game long of town worth. You hop on my wagon at the end of the day without so much as acknowledging any reasons.

You know who often hops on wagons?

Scum.

You know who lurks hard during Day 1?

Scum.

I'm not even upset you're voting me. I'm actually trying to get things done and I'm a townie wagon. I fully expected you to hop onto my wagon. You're obviously scum from your complete lack of ANYTHING all day and then this.

By the way; what was that thing you promised to tell us about that you were waiting for that you mentioned last time you reared your head? Or was it just fake promised content to make it look like you were even trying?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:02:34 PM
hi
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Raikaria on September 06, 2014, 10:03:07 PM
Also missed:

You know who gives no opinions on people at all and makes no cases?

Scum.

Going to sleep for reals now. I hope I wake up to see the right choice being made, but if the wrong one is made; meh; just a nilla.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 10:03:52 PM
I'm going with my memory for now. He was focused on Raikaria, aside from is supposed RVS vote, for being late and non participating, on it's own not a point against him but why did he go with a serious wagon without a serious reason?

for page 3 it seems good enough to me.  came within like 2-3 posts of Raikaria posting and before that he hadn't changed his vote so maybe it just struck his fancy?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 10:05:30 PM
do two wrong choices make a right?

also hi prims.  how's your day going? good? good.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 10:07:39 PM
Yeah this "make the right choice" rhetoric when Raikaria acknowledged he doesn't exactly like the Dan wagon anyway is helping me regain my confidence.

I don't really know what Dorian is saying regarding Schezo.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 10:09:04 PM
I'm glad I stuck around long enough to see this reponse.

Lexicat; you have done nothing all game long of town worth. You hop on my wagon at the end of the day without so much as acknowledging any reasons.

You know who often hops on wagons?

Scum.

You know who lurks hard during Day 1?

Scum.

I'm not even upset you're voting me. I'm actually trying to get things done and I'm a townie wagon. I fully expected you to hop onto my wagon. You're obviously scum from your complete lack of ANYTHING all day and then this.

By the way; what was that thing you promised to tell us about that you were waiting for that you mentioned last time you reared your head? Or was it just fake promised content to make it look like you were even trying?

That's just like, your opinion, man.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 10:11:23 PM
Yeah this "make the right choice" rhetoric when Raikaria acknowledged he doesn't exactly like the Dan wagon anyway is helping me regain my confidence.

I don't really know what Dorian is saying regarding Schezo.

not mine honestly.  If I were Raikaria I'd want to live over me too.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:11:59 PM
i think schezo is scum :(
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:12:49 PM
schezo/bard/cf7

between the current wagons I'd still lynch Dan over Raikaria because I don't want to have to deal with him misreading me for stupid reasons on future days.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 10:13:16 PM
seems valid enough.  I accept your vote.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:15:10 PM
I see where BT/LLD are coming from on Raikaria but remember feeling very confident on a Raikaria lynch for similar reasons but then it turned out he can't help but sound sleazy as town.

I don't think scum!Raikaria would claim VT right now unless told to, I could see Dan claiming VT though if he thought he could towntell enough to move the wagon off him, although I don't really think he sounds like scum.

blehhhhhh
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 10:17:18 PM
I see where BT/LLD are coming from on Raikaria but remember feeling very confident on a Raikaria lynch for similar reasons but then it turned out he can't help but sound sleazy as town.

I don't think scum!Raikaria would claim VT right now unless told to, I could see Dan claiming VT though if he thought he could towntell enough to move the wagon off him, although I don't really think he sounds like scum.

blehhhhhh

One: VT is a very easy claim and Two: I don't think it matter what Rakaria claimed to the people currently on his wagon.

Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:21:42 PM
eh

Dorian are you still here? Don't worry I can give you a BPV tonight.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 10:25:00 PM
I see where BT/LLD are coming from on Raikaria but remember feeling very confident on a Raikaria lynch for similar reasons but then it turned out he can't help but sound sleazy as town.
Like I said, my record for mislynching Raikaria as Town is, like, perfect. I think the one time I lynched Scum Raikaria in one of my Town games was when I wasn't the one leading the wagon.

Right now I'm reminding myself of his defense I didn't like and the fake-ness that was especially apparent in the first 24 hours, and reasoning that Raikaria just jumped on the opportunity to badmouth LLD and guilt trip me because he could.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:25:32 PM
Rakaria's recent posts sound like someone who is caught for the wrong reasons. He's not upset that I'm voting him but rather that I'm voting him with "no basis".
BTW I can confirm that town also get mad when you vote them for no reason and I hope you never use this logic ever again.

BT cut: give specific quotes/examples?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 10:27:12 PM
BTW I can confirm that town also get mad when you vote them for no reason and I hope you never use this logic ever again.

BT cut: give specific quotes/examples?

BTW I can confirm that I have been playing this game for much longer than you have and have a much larger sample size to pick from. So if you'd like to stop the condescension,  perhaps we can both get back to what's really important here?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 10:28:31 PM
But I'm not even mad

(and neither is Raikaria)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 10:29:15 PM
...
I don't really know what Dorian is saying regarding Schezo.
BIG NEW, you did got my cases in the last three games, so what's your point?

Honestly, this is a Pest or Collera decision, so Dan, you got one hour to summarize who you think is scum and why.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 10:29:38 PM
BT cut: give specific quotes/examples?
For first 24 hours see this post. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125747.html#msg1125747) "Raikaria's first 24 hours were spent disassociating with post-RVS stuff, reluctantly committing to a vote and reaching no new conclusions while the rest of the thread trucked onwards." Still feel this is important.

Bad defense is here. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125780.html#msg1125780) The part on my mind is the "you're basically hammering me for sharing my scumreads" part.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 10:30:56 PM
BIG NEW, you did got my cases in the last three games, so what's your point?

Honestly, this is a Pest or Collera decision, so Dan, you got one hour to summarize who you think is scum and why.

If you think you're getting any more information out of Dan than you already have in his posting today, you're deluding yourself. In one way or another he's already told you everything he can. Just look a little harder.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 10:31:11 PM
BIG NEW, you did got my cases in the last three games, so what's your point?
I didn't get this part:

I'm going with my memory for now. He was focused on Raikaria, aside from is supposed RVS vote, for being late and non participating, on it's own not a point against him but why did he go with a serious wagon without a serious reason?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 10:31:23 PM
*BIG NEWS, you didn't ...
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:34:42 PM
BTW I can confirm that I have been playing this game for much longer than you have and have a much larger sample size to pick from.
neither of these things are true as far as I'm aware, but regardless, start playing like it and I will stop making jabs at you.

I'm not seeing Raikaria's defense as a scum guilt trip in particular. tbh I am shit at reading Raikaria (or maybe Raikaria is just shit at being read), I am going to be super lame and re-read him this game and contrast with past town/scum games from him.

##Unvote, I don't want Dorian to hammer while I'm reading.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 10:36:49 PM
Dorian isn't gonna answer then? I don't feel like "you never understand me anyways" is bringing us anywhere.

Prims: I'm wary the Dan wagon was pushed by scum earlier today. It's not so much "how are scum gonna save Dan?" when the Raikaria wagon was a decent option too probably. Or it could be the scum are the late Dan/Raikaria wagon joiners and I'm totally wrong, but in that case it's probably town/town anyway.

I think I'm good at finding games with similar bad D1 Raikaria Town so hold on.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 10:37:10 PM
neither of these things are true as far as I'm aware, but regardless, start playing like it and I will stop making jabs at you.

I'm not seeing Raikaria's defense as a scum guilt trip in particular. tbh I am shit at reading Raikaria (or maybe Raikaria is just shit at being read), I am going to be super lame and re-read him this game and contrast with past town/scum games from him.

##Unvote, I don't want Dorian to hammer while I'm reading.

If you can't understand what I'm doing, perhaps it's not a flaw in what I'm doing and simply a gap in your understanding.

Don't assume I do anything without reason. I always have a reason.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 10:40:47 PM
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15772.0.html - idolm@ster
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15642.0.html - Mirai Nikki
Glorious D1 Town Raikaria lynches. I think these are the two examples I was talking about.

BTW I'm wrong about town/town at the very end of my post there. Not sure what I was saying.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:42:34 PM
##Vote: Raikaria
I lied about the re-reading thing.
I'm gonna put my faith in BT here; decided I don't like my company on the Dan wagon at all (lol Bard).
The annoying thing is that this means Dan lives past D1.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
Bard really really really needs to die tomorrow, I do not buy him giving up his case on me to vote Dan without so much a mention of what happened to the case he wrote a wall of text about. Especially since he went on to vote with me.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 10:43:54 PM
For the record, I suspecting Schezo for not caring about who gets lynched right now. Geez, excuse me that I need a bit longer to say something.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Lexicat on September 06, 2014, 10:44:52 PM
Anyway I'm out now for probably the remainder of what is left in this day.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 06, 2014, 10:44:57 PM
Fo' Sho, Fo' Sho, Fo' Sho, Fo' Sho, Fo' Sho, Fo' Sho, Fo' Sho, Fo' Sho
I love you, I Love you.

Raikaria: (6) Schezo, BT, Affinity, ActionDan, Lexicat, Prims (L-1)
ActionDan: (5) Moridin84, CF7, Just, Sky Paladin, Raikaria, (L-2)
Schezo: (1) Dorian

7 Votes needed for Majority
1 and one half hour left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140906T1915&p0=2374&msg=Day+one+End)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 10:50:24 PM
I agree on Bard and still kind of want to know why Dan thinks he's town.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:51:22 PM
BT, how are you reading cf7
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 10:52:44 PM
That's a really strange read to me actually, at the beginning I thought he was scum, then I thought he looked really town (since I convinced myself his opinions were solid & honest & other good things) and now I'm really wavering on that for reasons I don't recall exactly. Maybe because he ultimately didn't do much and the Dan vote was weak.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:56:13 PM
we should turbolynch bard

:)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 10:56:52 PM
I'm just antsy waiting for a hammer at this point, settled on Dan town after reading things over some more although I am very annoyed with him. I don't think I'll be switching back in any case.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 11:02:08 PM
Talk about Scum Schezo in the meantime.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 11:07:54 PM
his switch to Dan sounded reasonable when nobody wanted to lynch Raikaria but then he made it when people started being interested in the wagon. and he thought his raikaria vote was "good case"

iunno though I kinda pause on this because Schezo is submissive as scum rather than just being "lol who cares" refuge-in-audacity tier. I'd lynch cf7, bard and maybe moridin? first, though it'd be weird if all scum were on dan

my opinions are all over the place from having missed basically everything overnight
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 11:16:52 PM
BT you were in the last game right? what is even Moridin's deal and how should I be reading him, I'm too lazy to even skim that
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: ActionDan on September 06, 2014, 11:17:22 PM
I'm playing LoL btw atm in case people were wondering why their god had left them
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 11:20:32 PM
i had "at least play a good moba like" typed up but then realized it was an oxymoron and couldn't complete my sentence
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 11:21:45 PM
If I'm pressing CF7 on something it'll be on the two posts on LLD and how he didn't continue talking about Sky. Otherwise I liked the clarity. "The case is baseless", "not feeling the Raikaria lynch", that kind of stuff.

I think Schezo is Town on weird pretend-meta. Also on posts that made me think "I think Schezo is town", like this one. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125608.html#msg1125608) Wait but in that one Schezo says something about Dan votes being useless so now I'm confused why he made the switch on Dan.

On Moridin, I was scum so didn't pay the most attention. Moridin played different last game but I don't think it means anything, and he was SK so *shrug*. He mostly followed public opinion and sometimes had a post or two sharing his thoughts but not having them influence his vote for some reason. Like I said, different.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 11:24:06 PM
TBH once Dan started talking about Moridin I started suspecting that his association play is a coverup for a lack of reads as scum... but I don't remember how long it took him to share reads last game too. And the first time I saw those posts I thought they were fine and Moridin was experimenting.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 11:25:34 PM
so uh we have a bit under an hour left now, what needs to be discussed before hammer?
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 11:26:24 PM
Nothing on my end. I've seen Affinity on the active users list so maybe he wants to get something in.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 06, 2014, 11:35:30 PM
No Change in voting (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125935.html#msg1125935)
Fourty Minutes Left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140906T1915&p0=2374&msg=Day+one+End)
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 11:41:26 PM
Nothing much.  Mostly disappointed.  Befuddled. 

I get the feeling mirodin is holding back a bit; his reason for not voting rai here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125854.html#msg1125854) is pretty well-reasoned.  Somewhat feel better about him but it remains to be seen.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 11:42:22 PM
Is Dorian still around to hammer? 
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 11:44:02 PM
I don't think it's well-reasoned; what he said might apply to players in past games but Raikaria is an individual case. He goes on about differences between games but doesn't draw any conclusions from them.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 06, 2014, 11:47:58 PM
Last Active: Today at 04:44:39 pm

doriaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Schezo on September 06, 2014, 11:48:31 PM
nice nl
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Affinity on September 06, 2014, 11:49:47 PM
life is tough.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: BT on September 06, 2014, 11:53:01 PM
Nah he's keeping up. Just hammer IMO.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: Dorian White on September 06, 2014, 11:54:44 PM
I still can hammer if needed.
I may not be actually fond of HW letting Dan go at the point where he had to say stuff about the game, which was his reason to push Dan all day. Nor Raikaria turning out scum which strongly implicates that I'm wrong about Schezo.

Oh, fuck ?

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria


Everything is better than a no lynch.
Title: Re: rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 07, 2014, 12:00:31 AM
Your Performance was like ...
A Filling dinner.

Raikaria: (7) Schezo, BT, Affinity, ActionDan, Lexicat, Prims, Dorian(LYNCH)
ActionDan: (5) Moridin84, CF7, Just, Sky Paladin, Raikaria,

Raikaria was Lynched
He was A Reporter, Sided with the Mafia
Raikaria had no special powers.

It is now Night One.
If you have any night actions, please send them in to me, either by PM or by means of Quicktopic if possible.
Night One will end in 24 hours at 8:00 p.m. EST
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night One)
Post by: Moridin on September 07, 2014, 10:32:43 AM
Geez, after ActionDan was lynched I was planning to use this time to push for a Raikaria lynch day 2. Everyone would be impressed and be like "that Moridin guy is soo cool". Instead Raikaria  gets lynched now when my previous post was kind of uncertain about him. (Though I'm not going to claim I was sure he was MAFIA or anything, just that he was suspicious and he needed some good explanations to get out of that).

Now that's he's posting, ActionDan is kind of hilarious. Still, ActionDan is probably going to keep popping up as a lynch target, isn't he? Statistically speaking, he's got as much chance of being MAFIA as anyone else, but because he doesn't post much or seriously, you can't really place him in one side or the other. I might drop this associative strategy for now, I've kind of lost motivation for it.

So anyway, it's interesting that the ActionDan lynch was at 6 or so long. It suggests that either

1) All the MAFIA were on the ActionDan wagon, so they couldn't "hammer it"
2) MAFIA on the Raikeria wagon couldn't justify moving to the ActionDan wagon
3) Some MAFIA were "free" but couldn't justify jumping onto the ActionDan wagon
4) The MAFIA decided to abandon Raikeria and bus him

With #4 in mind I'm suspicious of Prims. He was pretty strong on the ActionDan wagon but suddenly switched to the Raikaria wagon because he "trusted BT". That's like... not really a good reason right?

I'm inclined to believe BT and Affinity are TOWN, as they've been pushing the Raikaria lynch for a while.

Quote from: Dorion
I still can hammer if needed.
I may not be actually fond of HW letting Dan go at the point where he had to say stuff about the game, which was his reason to push Dan all day. []Nor Raikaria turning out scum[/b] which strongly implicates that I'm wrong about Schezo.
Wait... doesn't this imply that Dorion knows that Raikeria was going to turn up MAFIA?

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night One)
Post by: Moridin on September 07, 2014, 10:33:19 AM
Missed a tag...
Nor Raikaria turning out scum
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night One)
Post by: Moridin on September 07, 2014, 12:40:01 PM
So yeah I'm kind suspicious of Dorion because of this possible "scumslip" above and because he's acting much differently this game compared to the last. Which has a tell in Raikaria's case.

As for the other players:

Just - There seems to be a case against him due to some meta? This is what caught Raikaria so I'm not going to dismiss it.
Lexicat - A jackass? Other then I haven't got anything conclusive on him. He hasn't posted much
CF7 / Sky - In the same boat. They argued with each other but I haven't see anything conclusive to go on, for or against
Schezo - He doesn't seem to be acting very seriously at the moment. That might be just his meta, I dunno

So basically...

Level 5 (most likely to be MAFIA)
- Primms
- Dorion

Level 4
- Schezo
- Just

Level 3
- ActionDan
- CF7
- Sky Paladin

Level 2
- Lexicat

Level 1 (least likely to be MAFIA)
- BT
- Affinity
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night One)
Post by: Moridin on September 07, 2014, 05:40:08 PM
Well that's it.

I probably won't be awake by the time the turn ends so don't ask me any questions expecting an immediate answer.

Also, I've been sick all weekend and haven't had much to do. So don't be surprised if I start posting less come tomorrow.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 08, 2014, 12:01:22 AM
You all woke up to find BT had not woken up.
BT was a Love-Lab Scientist, a member of the Town
BT had the special ability to Link two people of his choosing once, linking their fates for the rest of the game.

With 10 alive, you need 6 votes to reach Majority
You have 72 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Schezo on September 08, 2014, 12:07:49 AM
BT no ;~;
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 08, 2014, 12:08:45 AM
I think that I start the day with Sky, cause he missed out the scum lunch.
I already Pointed out how he dropped me to give out Raikaria as his ?preferred scum lunch.? (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125710.html#msg1125710)  for no apparent reason. His next post is mostly a list of reasons why he wants to lynch Dan, Raikaria is only worth a side note: ?At this stage I am willing so sheep BT on Raikaria because I think BT is town. I am suspiciois of Bard voting Dan over Rai.? (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125769.html#msg1125769)
Sure, that case was the best thing that day but how exactly does BTs townnyness makes Raikaria scum? What happened to your own reason to prefer Raikarias lynch? And why is Bard suspicious for voting Dan when you see so many reasons to vote the guy yourself?
Which you finally did here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125781.html#msg1125781). Dan is a lost case and you apologize to Bard for being a hypocrite but that doesn't explains why you criticized him in the first place nor why Raikaria isn't a thing anymore.
So could you explain this?

##Vote: Sky Paladin

I still have to wonder about Schezo, at the end of day confusion had he nothing better to do than standing on the side line ?dumb as 100m country road near Kassel? making silly comments.
But would he really turbo bus his buddy? I really can't tell.

Also
Wait... doesn't this imply that Dorion knows that Raikeria was going to turn up MAFIA?
No, it doesn't. It just implies that I agreed enough with BTs case to assume scum Raikaria. And on a side note, scum Dorian would have been to busy laughing about the inevitable No-Lynch to post anything.

BT had the special ability to Link two people of his choosing once, linking their fates for the rest of the game.
Wait, is it just me or does that sound like a matchmaker?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 08, 2014, 12:22:01 AM
So yeah I'm kind suspicious of Dorion because of this possible "scumslip" above and because he's acting much differently this game compared to the last. Which has a tell in Raikaria's case.

As for the other players:

Just - There seems to be a case against him due to some meta? This is what caught Raikaria so I'm not going to dismiss it.
Lexicat - A jackass? Other then I haven't got anything conclusive on him. He hasn't posted much
CF7 / Sky - In the same boat. They argued with each other but I haven't see anything conclusive to go on, for or against
Schezo - He doesn't seem to be acting very seriously at the moment. That might be just his meta, I dunno

So basically...

Level 5 (most likely to be MAFIA)
- Primms
- Dorion

Level 4
- Schezo
- Just

Level 3
- ActionDan
- CF7
- Sky Paladin

Level 2
- Lexicat

Level 1 (least likely to be MAFIA)
- BT
- Affinity

Vote: Moridin
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 08, 2014, 12:23:59 AM
It basically is matchmaker.

Also I too have developed a level system over the night.  It was a very painstaking process and it goes like this

Level 5 (most likely to be MAFIA)

-Moridin84
-CF7
-Just
-Sky Paladin

Level 1 (least likely to be MAFIA)

-Schezo
-BT (Rip)
-Affinity
-Lexicat
-Prims
-Dorian
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 08, 2014, 12:26:33 AM
Also I was just stung 5 times around 45 mins ago by a detachment of 3 yellow jacks from a nest so I probably will think about this later and play video games or something.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 12:32:15 AM
remaining maflords are schezo / bard RIP scum for real

Schezo claimed his case on Raikaria was a good case but switched to Dan right as pressure on Raikaria was mounting, never explained this later. Despite being around at deadline there's no effort from him to get me to vote Raikaria when it really matters because he has no TOWN MOTIVATION or MOTIVATION in general because scum aren't MOTIVATED to lynch their scumbuddy.

bard writes walls of text about why i'm scum then drops it blankly to vote with me on the counterwagon to raikaria. despite hating dan being a chronic lurker he wait-and-sees it instead of trying to get anything out of dan early on. even though he hates lurkers there is no comment or pressure toward LLD, like, at all. most blatant counterwagon pushing attempt 2014 imo

also think that if bard was genuine about wanting to lynch dan for being deadweight he would've been more understanding about where i was coming from with the policy suggestion in the first place. still dislike how he twisted that as a suggestion to outright lynch dan rather than just keep a wagon on him too

##Vote: Bard

points against sky are understandable

points against me are dumb because moridin has no reason to believe scum sacced raikaria instead of D1. dorian and i both had the perfect opportunity to just stonewall and get dan lynched and the end of d1 is not a situation where scum wants to bus, as scum i wouldn't have needed the cred since the people who wanted me dead throughout D1 were either lurkers and not convincing anybody or Bard, who was lynchable. scum!me only makes sense if you think the scumteam is hw/dan/raikaria, in which case, lol

but at least if moridin is scum his buddies aren't feeding him anything. i dunno about cf7 now really.

@Dan: why is Dorian town? actually I am leaning town on him but am waffling on my read (weirder busses have happened) so maybe you noticed something I didn't.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 12:35:21 AM
although i don't HARD SCUMREAD moridin i'm fine lynching him because he's an unknown, his posting has not been good and we don't want him alive in LYLO #MafiaPragmatism
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 12:38:14 AM
sacced raikaria instead of pushing dan D1*

proofreading is for nerds
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 12:40:13 AM
@mioridin:

Why do you say this:

Quote
Still, ActionDan is probably going to keep popping up as a lynch target, isn't he? Statistically speaking, he's got as much chance of being MAFIA as anyone else, but because he doesn't post much or seriously, you can't really place him in one side or the other

when Dan was a counterwagon to scum on D1 and probably town?  If Dan is indeed scum then wouldn't your scumlist be overthrown (since huhwhat would then be pushing Dan!scum heavily?)  I appreciate the effort but I think your post isn't well-thought out. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 12:45:01 AM
since Moridin has not read invasion I can confirm to BT that he is not the guy who archived binged every motk game.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 12:45:40 AM
Don't like Bard this game for pretty much the same reasons as yesterday (and as huhwhat mentions above).

##Vote: just

Other thoughts later.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 12:53:32 AM
Moridin, why did you stick to voting Dan if Raikaria was suspicious to you? (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125892.html#msg1125892) in fact why even wait until D2 to lynch Raikaria anyway if he was scum? What?? ?????????

My only real handle on CF7 is meta, and it's that I think if he was scum he'd be trying to justify his opinions here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125719.html#msg1125719) instead of carelessly throwing them out, I remember in villains2 before he subbed out his scumpost was to make a bunch of awkwardly justified reads and he seemed a lot more self-conscious. but villains2 was a while ago
his actual posting is fine but he was on the wrong wagon and also didn't really leave an impression. guess he reads Null and not Scum

and although skypal voting dan over raikaria is bad bad bad i can't help but feel in his ISO he comes off like a genuine townie who was frustrated with Dan being a fucker and just happened to be Wrong. something about jumping from "Bard why vote Dan over Raikaria?" to voting Raikaria when Sky does not strike me as a refuge-in-audacity scum player. so yeah I want to aim for Bard/Schezo/Moridin today. still don't get why Dan loves schezo so much other than catboys which is a reasonable argument but still.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 01:11:55 AM
actually yeah I forgot Dorian could've just vanished and locked us into Dan lynch without taking responsibility for it so he gets a pass.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 01:56:30 AM
eh huhwhat why are you blaming all those people as bad for choosing Dan over Raikaria when you had left your vote on Dan till the very end in the first place?  The only difference seems to be that you were there at the end and they were not; you have to admit that it's a valid position to take.

dunno the structure of your reads against CF7 and Sky seem to be 'there are bad for choosing Dan but then they're okay', which strikes me as a bit wrong when you had done it yourself.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 02:12:46 AM
I stated CF7 was null; was reading up on him as I did not have any real opinion.

sky choosing dan bugged me because of him going on about raikaria being his preferred lynch, but not following it up
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Schezo on September 08, 2014, 03:44:19 AM
I don't know what you gaiz thinks the "town" reaction to no one being there to hammer would be?  am I supposed to hurt myself over nothing?  nah.  if nothing happens oh well.

Anyways.  I didn't need to tell you HW to consolidate for the deadline lynch. 
Quote
points against me are dumb because moridin has no reason to believe scum sacced raikaria instead of D1. dorian and i both had the perfect opportunity to just stonewall and get dan lynched and the end of d1 is not a situation where scum wants to bus, as scum i wouldn't have needed the cred since the people who wanted me dead throughout D1 were either lurkers and not convincing anybody or Bard, who was lynchable. scum!me only makes sense if you think the scumteam is hw/dan/raikaria, in which case, lol
Well.  Scum had to sack Raikaria cause he got himself voted by everybody.  You can't stonewall as 1 or 2 people when the rest of the players make it dan v rai.  So when Dan started talking and the day turned into Raikaria lynch or no lynch, the vocal scum (hw) had to switch over for lynch consolidation or get lambasted for letting a nl go through when they were so close to deadline.
So there's that.
Then you adding dan to that list makes no sense when he's the only one not plausible at this point.
Quote
still don't get why Dan loves schezo so much other than catboys which is a reasonable argument but still.
jk hw's the best

Moridin:
And I'd like a better explaination to "I'm not acting seriously when I lynch Raikaria" and how this makes me scum.
Was I not serious and only trolling with my vote?
That said Moridin being adament about not voting Raikaria and his odd scum team linkings.
I think this vote is solid, until the rest of the game decides to play.  Like.  I don't even know where everyone gets the cases they have on CF7, Sky, and Bardiche.  They've had minimal content during and about the dan v Raikaria so uh word.
##Vote: Moridin

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 04:20:16 AM
i don't think dan is scum at all, i mentioned that because the only reasonable argument would be for hw to not care about lynching raikaria because the other option was his other buddy. but that's a fair explanation i guess, i dunno though i'm still not scum so whatever

in any case there was a point where i was clearly planning to keep my vote down on dan. the day could've ended in both a dan lynch and a raikaria lynch. why did you not care that i was going to get dan lynched despite ragging on dorian a couple hours back
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 04:21:41 AM
basically the day never turned into raikaria or no lynch until i switched to raikaria, unless dorian would have absolutely refused to hammer dan, which he didn't indicate
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Schezo on September 08, 2014, 04:28:35 AM
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125874.html#msg1125874
was about the closest it got and at that point no one on Raikaria was going to switch and Dan himself seemed to be handling Dorian pretty well. 
Then the end of the day happened with bt and friends talking and then you consolidated with dorian.

the point is that dan isn't scum at all so there's no point in making a bullshit ass list like hw/dan/raikaria.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 05:54:37 AM
Still on my phone gurgleblarg.

I voted Dan because when I went to bed everything I said about him was true. While I was sleeping five pages of content popped up. I logged in with forth minutes spare, started reading and decided to hammer Rai but Dorian beat me to it.

The main issue I have with Rai, Dorian and Moridin is they all seem to be signed up to the idea that CF7 and I had an argument and that there is somehow scum feelings in there. There is not. CF7 joke voted me for my avatar (I assumed because RVS) then late tried to substantiate it. My "scum team pick" of those three was not serious; I always put huge walls when I make a case - or as much as I can, and come back to it. However, Moridin and Dorian and Raikaria all tried to make it seem bigger than it was and I wonder if it isn't because they are in a scum topic discussing how to ferment town trouble. When I am home ill ISo Rai and see who he hates/likes before a fire was lot under him.

On that note: I remember somebody asking Moridin if he knew for certain that he was the only night talker. This strikes me as highly important because the scum who died appeared to have a role related to this.
think the person who questioned this was Schezo but I can't remember and I don't have time to go through the thread right now. It may alternatively town clear Moridin because I don't see scum having a reports and a night talker. I'm hoping Schezo or whoever it was can shed some light on this.

I also want to check if Dan was actually scum hunting or just being active enough to not be lynched. I don't rule out the possibility of scum double bus at the moment.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 08, 2014, 05:57:13 AM
Raikaria was a mafia goon
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 06:02:44 AM
He was reporter with no abilities = scum abilities are probably shared like a factional kill, as they have been every time I have been scum.
Dorian is also not clear because of hammering, several people saw him online and demanded he hammer. I was also online before him but apparently nobody asked me to hammer. Dorians hammer definitely looked like a panic hammer to me.

IMO Moridin went from hating Dorian at night to hating me at dawn. I want to know why.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 06:13:22 AM
Actually clicks on moridons post, finds quotes the look suspect
I actually have children. Climbing all over me fighting for the phone So time to go
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 08, 2014, 07:16:15 AM
...Why do our vegetables grow hair?

Moridin: (2)  Lexicat, Schezo
Just: (2) Prims, Affinity
Sky_Paladin: (1) Dorian

Needing to Vote: Sky_Paladin, Just, ActionDan, Moridin84, CF7

6 votes needed for majority
You have 64 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Schezo on September 08, 2014, 07:24:50 AM
##Vote: Moridin
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 07:35:46 AM
Feeling very good about moridon/Dorian as scum team.  Will review and consider overs later eh Bard/Prims.

Pretty sure Dorian hammered his scum buddy becuase he had to. If I was scum, I would have hammered ASAP to avoid anybody else getting a clear. Dorians hammer looks panicky which was odd because we had fifteen to twenty minutes left and people around.

Also want to correct my previous post from "every game" to "at least one game". The last game I played as scum I did not have factional abilities.

Consider Dans appearance to reject my questioning over Moridon, when Dan just posted to say bugs were eating him and sorry be afk, as odd.

More later, I'm sorry, I'm really busy and I can't do jack on this phone.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 08, 2014, 08:32:17 AM
I don't have much time so I'm just going to post a few quick things. Will look into reading everything properly and voting later.

Perhaps posting my MAFIA ranking list was a bad idea, got a few people up in arms against me. Then again, maybe it's due to guilty consciences?

Quote from: Prims
since Moridin has not read invasion I can confirm to BT that he is not the guy who archived binged every motk game.
What?

Moridin, why did you stick to voting Dan if Raikaria was suspicious to you? (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125892.html#msg1125892) in fact why even wait until D2 to lynch Raikaria anyway if he was scum? What?? ?????????
Lynching ActionDan day 1 and (maybe) Raikaria day 2 seemed like a good strategy. It's not like I was sure that Raikaria was MAFIA, I was willing to hear him out.

Besides, you seem to be okay with lynching me to avoid being in a LYLO situation with me right? So wanting to lynch ActionDan for the same reason (amongst others) is hardly unreasonable right?

Quote from: Sky_Paladin
IMO Moridin went from hating Dorian at night to hating me at dawn. I want to know why.
What are you talking about, I put Dorion on level 5 and you on level 3. And this is my first post since then.

Just to be clear, level 3 isn't very high. I don't really have much on you or CF7 at the moment. All I have is you arguing with each other and I didn't get any "reads" out of it.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: CF7 on September 08, 2014, 09:42:01 AM
And i am back.
A few things.
Kind of bothered CF7 and Bard just dropped off the face of the day so quick. The votes fall apart the instant Dan shows up and starts posting, which they're not here for.
Timezones. Healthy sleep. Also it feel kind of weird to say this to the dead person...
Anyway.
I really don't like Prims' vote switch from Dan to Raikaria.
I mean this.
between the current wagons I'd still lynch Dan over Raikaria because I don't want to have to deal with him misreading me for stupid reasons on future days.
Even at the end of the day he still pushed for Dan's lynch. 
But just after 30 minutes he simply votes for Raikaria.
##Vote: Raikaria
I lied about the re-reading thing.
I'm gonna put my faith in BT here; decided I don't like my company on the Dan wagon at all (lol Bard).
The annoying thing is that this means Dan lives past D1.
It felt unnatural. Basically he was pushing for Dan whole day, and then, simply went to lynch Raikaria. Looks like scum bussing his buddy to get some town cred. 
So that being said.
##Vote Prims

Also i am slightly concerned about LLD's 328 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126208.html#msg1126208). And LLD's post in general. He says that he has his reasons, but won't say what these reasons are. Plus he sort of claimed, that he can shoot people here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125886.html#msg1125886).
So... He might be a vig, he might be lying or he actually might be scum.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 08, 2014, 12:47:44 PM
I dropped voting Huh What yesterday because it was clear people weren't interested in it. Post was already long and felt meaningless to include "I'm still susp of Huh Whatty but no one wants to vote him with me".

Feel like Huh Whatty is being unfair re: Dan wagon, putting someone at L-2 in MOTK likely to cause lynch since MOTK sucks @ consolidate. LSD slipped mind, Dan egregious because repeats Scum behaviour l. game. Agree with CF7 re: Huh What voteswap, looks like accusing me of his own crimes?
##Vote: Prims
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 01:55:04 PM
Thoughtdump.  Skipping over Bard/Prims walls on this pass since they are huge and need a post of their own. 

Dan (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125278.html#msg1125278) vote on Raikaria in RVS.  Scum often vote for other scums in RVS. 
Dorian (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125284.html#msg1125284) fence sitting on Dan, "against policy by default, even if this case seems good". 
Dorian (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125288.html#msg1125288) questioning Prims 'cop' result on Dan. 

This little exchange:
(Prims picks on Dorian for being wishy washy and then)
'LLD, post a case so I can decide if you're town playing mafiascum and not Mafia or if I'm lynching you today.'
LLD responds with:
'You want a case? You're scum. There you go, case compiled.'
Dan interrupts with: (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125311.html#msg1125311)
"I'd actually be inclined to go with LLD over not going with LLD on this one.

But Raikaria is scum I bet."

Lexi responds with;
"This player has not posted anything since Day 1 begun. Why do you say this?"

Dan responds with;
"I'm using that confirm post."

Raikaria's confirm post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125217.html#msg1125217).  However, he didn't vote. 

*** thus making Dan the first player to pick scum from a confirm post.  Did he guess, or know? ***

Schezo (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125381.html#msg1125381) votes Raikaria fairly early in day 1, but notably outside of RVS.  Probably townclear from this. 

BT (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125395.html#msg1125395) picking on CF7.  BT and CF7 had several interactions, certainly more in number and more compelling than anything CF7 and I had.  I'll refer back to this point if/when I get to Raikaria/Moridin/Dorian's relevant posts, later.  It's important because IIRC those three made the same argument that is based on a faulty perspective of the game state, and I find it hard to believe three players could screw up in the same way at the same time unless they were working together.  And, we know one of them was scum. 

Raikaria post. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125396.html#msg1125396)
Main points:
Defends Dorian as 'not rolefishing' (arguably he was not role fishing) and my case is speculative (of course it's speculative, because I don't KNOW, it's just an educated guess.)  Discredits my case on Dorian, " I mean, asking if a vote is serious at this state and fence-sitting on a silly RVS policy lynch? That's not really anything you can read into."
Also mentions Bard in passing.  Doesn't comment on Dan state himself. 

Raikaria (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125401.html#msg1125401) omgus on Schezo.  Schezo basically towncleared imo. 

Dorian (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125410.html#msg1125410) vote for super pro town guy who should have been protected last night, but flipped green. 

Moridin claims  (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125442.html#msg1125442) (and has now established) ability to talk at night. 

Raikaira (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125462.html#msg1125462) again picks out Sky to discredit him (less so this time). 

BT (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125448.html#msg1125448) case and vote for Bard.  Relevant for nightkill analysis?  If so, though, Prims should have been nightkilled instead of BT. 

Affinity's (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125490.html#msg1125490) random flavor post that I assume is going to later be some kind of crumb, but the main guts is 'get off Dorian'. 

Raikaria (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125542.html#msg1125542) 'mulling over CF7/Sky interactions'.  The BT/CF7 interactions are far more compelling so I have to wonder what is Raikaria's angle here. 

Schezo (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125547.html#msg1125547) questioning Moridin on his ability.  The wording seems to me that Schezo is surprised that Moridin is 'the only one' with this ability.  Seeing as I think Schezo is super town I don't want him to claim but if you have any...I don't know, inside info, let us know with a vote. 
*observes Schezo voting Moridin day 2* Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Dorian (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125573.html#msg1125573) getting in another vote on a player I think is definitely green. 
Handwave Skycase.  No real content in this post.  Challenges Schezo over his Raikaria vote.  So a big black mark on Dorian here. 
Dorian (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125583.html#msg1125583) handwave dismiss of wagon on Bard. 

Raikaria post. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125687.html#msg1125687)
Main points:
Rolefishing - asks for Moridin claim. 
Says Prims is not making sense. 
Argues against Schezo by citing timezones. 
Fencesits over Sky and CF7 and finally votes Lexi for attitude and afk - why not vote Dan for afk, that wagon was further ahead than Lexi. 
This gem:
"I don't like anyone who used 'Fence Sitting' as an actual case. Because it's stupid and smells of just making up any reason to lynch people. I'm looking at Sky_Paladin and Bard here. People using confirmation posts as reasons people are scum is also bad especially when they do not explain how that post is scummy [Actiondan and Sky]"
That's two attempts to discredit me on my Dorian vote in one paragraph lol. 

Prims (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125689.html#msg1125689) critics Raikaria for his LLD vote instead of Dan.  Unlikely to come from a scumbuddy.  Prims actually put a lot of shots against Raikaria in the next few posts. 

Schezo (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125705.html#msg1125705) votes for Dan without a stated reason although there is no wagon on Rai at this point, so he didn't change his vote to save Raikaria. 

Prims (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125707.html#msg1125707) slam dunk on Raikaria.  Not the kind of thing scumbuddies do.  Almost certainly town.  Schezo will now immediately revote Raikaria. 

CF7 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125719.html#msg1125719) reluctant to lynch Raikaria. 

Raikaria post.   (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125725.html#msg1125725)
Main points:
Hates Sky, like in every post.  Man I wish that was enough to be a townclear but, you know, wifom etc.  Also hates CF7 despite CF7 saying he doesn't want to lynch him.  Leaning town on CF7 now. 

***
end of page 6, halfway done. 

***

BT (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125752.html#msg1125752) going Umineko on Raikaria.  Probably enough to indicate Sky is town but you know ^__~ 

BT (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125758.html#msg1125758) presses Dorian (relevant because nightkill analysis). 

Raikaria post. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125780.html#msg1125780)
Main points:
Again attacks Sky for his vote on Dorian.  That's, what, six or seven times now. 
Attacks Schezo. 

Dorian post.   (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125783.html#msg1125783)
Main points:
Attacks Schezo for his vote on Raikaria. 
Argues against Prims, asks for Schezo's head. 
Attacks Sky because Dorian mistook that Sky consolidated on to ActionDan, not Raikaria

Scumslip - "So, can you tell me why you prefer a Raikaria lunch over the scums that you apparently ?caught red-handed??"  I am voting ActionDan. 

Anyway at this point Rai and Dorian have so many mutually exclusive defends I'd gambit a fake guilty on Dorian if I had the audacity. 

Affinity (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125804.html#msg1125804) calls out the ActionDan wagon, votes for Raikaria.  Probably town clear here since Rai was behind on votes. 

Raikaria post. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125808.html#msg1125808)
Main points:
Calls for Sky's or Schezo's head, favors Sky. 

***end of page 7***

I'm about out of time for tonight so I'll post my town/scum picks, leaving myself out naturally.  The flipped scum spent all day 1 hating me so I hope I'm town by association by now.  Anyway. 

TOWN
Basically confirmed town tier:
6. Schezo
2. Affinity
4. Huhwhat

Not real sure tier:
12. CF7
10. Moridin84

Probably scum in here
5. Bardiche
7. ActionDan
11. Lexicat

Basically confirmed scum tier:
1. Dorian
SCUM

##vote Dorian

Continuing. I'm aware there's a new day and Moridin said some shaky stuff and people are voting Prims so my opinions may change, it's just it's nearly bed time and I want to get this wall done so I can move on.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 02:05:45 PM
EBWOP - earlier I stated Moridin and Dorian seemed like a good scum pair.  I didn't get up to those posts during the previous pass so that's why the list doesn't reflect Moridin as scummy as I will see him on pass on the second part of the thread.  This will make no sense to anybody except me, and Gemini's. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 02:19:38 PM
Basically in my first post I went up to where I went to bed.  All the Rai/Dan drama happened after I was a passed out wreck.  I was frustrated with Dan and BT appealed to me to make a choice between the two.  I was on my iphone and couldn't see the vote tally, I thought there was only two votes on Rai.  If I had known my vote would have made it tied wagons I would have voted Rai, but my blood was boiling from Dan being online an hour before hand and not posting.  I thought for sure he was scum lurking and laughing at us. 

Re: Moridon love - I mistook you for Dorion in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126206.html#msg1126206) because I was reading from an iphone and I had five Japanese children all fighting to take the phone.  So my earlier comment about you changing your vote priorities was wrong. 

TO DO
rest of day 1, Bard vs Prims
I need to finish the eval on Moridon because my main town read is voting him alongside one of the afkscums so null null null. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 02:20:36 PM
EBWOP -
"If I had known my vote would have made it tied wagons I would have voted Rai, and my blood was boiling from Dan being online an hour before hand and not posting"
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 02:26:23 PM
lots of people are shit at associative tells apparently. dan shouldn't be on anybody's scumlist at this point, or at least not above schezo. neither should i really, too bad nobody who has talked to me about mafia before is in this game to confirm that i would never sac raikaria in that situation ever. you guys overestimate the difficulty of getting a dan lynch at that point and for all the talk about me switching to raikaria last minute nobody explains why it's scum!me doing that as a bus and not just, you know, town me being convinced by the guy who got shot

sky please write a tl;dr post and elaborate on the strongest associations that you feel make dorian scum. you mention they soft defend eachother but town can defend scum, scum can defend town. explain how it looks like scumbuddy interactions and not just interactions.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 02:27:55 PM
bard's still scum btw and his post today just looks like a holdover from day 1 + an "i agree" which doesn't really cut it when there are multiple interactions with raikaria that paint me in a townie light. i don't think he even at least tried to re-read me or the game in general.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 02:30:40 PM
skypal is town tbh

think i'm about ready to clock out of this game actually
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 08, 2014, 02:35:24 PM
finally the way schezo tries to denounce possible reasons for me being town but doesn't really commit to anything thing there is hella weasely
also expect more from him now but he's not delivering unless he's going to argue that d2 doesn't matter either

dunno why i'm twitterposting instead of just writing a comprehensive one later but that's life
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 02:43:10 PM
The two people voting for huhwhat now are kinda horrible; they aren't even considering anyone else! 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 03:24:42 PM
Bard's copious amount of reasons (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125470.html#msg1125470) for voting huhwhat D1 had almost nil effect on the game at all, since he's now sheeping CF7 and voting him for shadows of a bus.  He often questioned people like CF7 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125475.html#msg1125475), but not once did he use the responses to inform his opinions on the playerbase at all.  Also, he dots his posts with minor suspicions of Raikaria (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125475.html#msg1125475), but all they result in is "If this behaviour keeps up Day 2, I would lynch it.", much like mioridin's nightpost confession.

The only time Bard really sat down to provide concrete opinions on people other than huhwhat and Rai is here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125744.html#msg1125744) but even then, it was mostly on the people who had voted him in the first place (me, BT).  It's a very defensive brand of scumhunting, something favored by scum.

He votes ActionDan without talking about why him over Raikaria.  Also, as huhwhat mentioned, Bard was attacking huhwhat D1 for 'attempting to policy lynch Dan', so wouldn't that be kinda hypocritical in context, to vote with him on Dan anyways?

Day 2, he doesn't care either.   Blatantly twists huhwhat's case on him into a deformed straw-man.  Doesn't talk about anyone else.

Man, why aren't people voting Bard?  Why go for shadows in favor of solids?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 03:31:07 PM
It was 26 degrees 2 days ago and now it's 1 degrees and snowing.  gosh Canada is no joke.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 03:38:18 PM
I know I haven't really commented on Schezo but meh he looks town solely on account of his Raikaria vote.  Thats it.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 03:53:18 PM
im in bed so this is probably poor.

TLDR

Dorian is scum. 
- his day 1 content is pathetic.  Early day 1 all he did was fencesit on ActionDan.  He votes for BT (who flipped green) and Schezo (who is almost certainly town).  His only real content day 1 is repeated attacks on Schezo for his vote on Raikaria (who was scum).  I don't believe Dorian looks at any other players, and dismisses my case with a handwave lol essentially. 
- I beleive his hammer was forced because he was called out in the thread.  If he'd ignored it and let it to go time out he'd be too suspicious.  Also his hammer looked really panicky. 
- His case on me is misrep and sloppy and I'll dismantle it when I've had some sleep.  The fact that he's voting me when he was tunneling Schezo all day is also ?
- oh right and his confirmation post reeks of disassiatative guilt.  But whatever. 

- Raikaria's day 1 content is similar.  Refusal to vote Dan until forced to by wagon emergence.  Makes no effort to engage active players, lots of waffling in his posts and empty content - we know he's scum.  Main points in his posts always come down to Sky's vote on Dorian is bad, but never evaluates Dorian.  Only other content is an attempt to make something out of CF7/Sky which is shot down by BT, BT gets night killed, QED. 

Raikaria and Dorian mutually exclusively defend each other and to some extent ActionDan, to the point where Dorian attacks me for voting Raikaria when I actually was voting Dan.  That's what we call a smoking gun.  They are unreasonably defending each other to the exclusion of all others, and not actually engaging active players except to discredit their votes by handwave, never by analysis. 

Dorian doesn't have any useful content and didn't commit to a wagon until the very end of the phase.  He actively chose to avoid making any kind of opinions on Dan early in the day, when Dan was the main topic of discussion.  He keeps voting obvious town players >.>

***

It's advantageous for scum to keep Dan around because he's handy mislynch material so I don't consider these interactions as an indicator for Dan's alignment yet.  However Dan picked Rai as scum from a confirmation post and didn't vote Rai so he's by no means clear, even if he was a counterwagon to a scum lynch.  He only became active at L-1 in the dying hours of the phase and I don't like it. 

***

I am aware there is a heap of stuff with Bard and another 5 pages of stuff to go through and I will deal with it when I get to it.  I just skimmed it yesterday morning I will read it properly soon.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 08, 2014, 07:25:52 PM
Oh dear Sky, Sky, Sky, what should I do with you?
I actually spent some time going over your "glorious content" that day but I already did that and it would give you only more ways to dodge my questions, which, by the way, you still haven't answered yet.
So I turned myself into a counting count, who counts things that counts (maybe someone would like to follow that example).^^ And guess what I found.

Quote
Inconvenient Votecount

Just: (2) BT, Affinity
Raikaria: (3) ActionDan, Prims, Schezo
Prims: (2) Lexicat, Just
Schezo: (1) Dorian
ActionDan: (1) Moridin84
Dorian Mizuhashi: (1) Sky_Paladin
Sky_Paladin: (1) CF7
Lexicat: (1) Raikaria
That was the vote situation as Sky voiced his preference for an Raikaria lynch.

Quote
Convenient Votecount

Just: (1) Affinity
Raikaria: (3) ActionDan, Schezo,  BT
Prims: (1) Lexicat
Schezo: (1) Dorian
ActionDan: (4) Moridin84, CF7, Prims, Just
Dorian Mizuhashi: (1) Sky_Paladin
Lexicat: (1) Raikaria
And that was the situation as Sky started to cry about Dan being frustrating, which leads to  Raikaria decay only to a side note. And then you solidified it into this:

Quote
Sweet Votecount

Just: (1) Affinity
Raikaria: (3) ActionDan, Schezo,  BT
Prims: (1) Lexicat
Schezo: (1) Dorian
ActionDan: (5) Moridin84, CF7, Prims, Just, Sky_Paladin
Lexicat: (1) Raikaria
Cause you conveniently forgot that Raikaria was you preferred pick for the days lynch just a few hours ago? So you put his counter wagon, that was already leading, further ahead?

Do I still have to ask for the reason why you did that or do I already know it?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 08, 2014, 07:41:07 PM
So HuhWhat, what do you say? Am I cool gay now? Or is Sky just 2 het 4 the game?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: CF7 on September 08, 2014, 08:04:56 PM
The two people voting for huhwhat now are kinda horrible; they aren't even considering anyone else!
I am just don't have much time at the moment and that was the things that picked my attention the most. I am even thinking about asking for a sub.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: CF7 on September 08, 2014, 08:07:29 PM
I am just don't have much time at the moment and that was the things that picked my attention the most. I am even thinking about asking for a sub.
Also sleepy.
I just don't have much time at the moment and that was the thing that piqued my interest the most. I am kind of thinking about asking for a sub.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 08, 2014, 08:09:52 PM
I'm a bit suspicious about Primms and his vote switch, but that's not enough to go on, and there are much more suspicious players around.

So what exactly is the argument against Just? The issue is what? Lack of concrete reasoning and conclusions? The lack of posting since Raikaria was getting seriously lynched in day 1 and during day 2 is suspicious though...

Sky's case against Dorion seems much stronger. Dorion also doesn't any counter many of Sky's arguments. Dorion's case against Sky is a bit odd, since they sound more like arguments against Primms than Sky.

##vote Dorion

@Schezo
Are you voting for me because I made some comment against you? That's not exactly constructive.

ActionDan is voting for me for that reason so I'm not even going to ask him...
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 08, 2014, 08:28:28 PM
I'm sorry if the numbers don't enlighten but how is a prove that Sky acted most opportunistic to save his buddy a point against HuhWhat?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 08, 2014, 08:29:12 PM
 *don't enlighten you ...
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 08:36:04 PM
@Dorian: as much as I don't agree with sky's case on you, you sound unbelievably petty and smug. I think a fair number of people who had wanted Rai lynched move to Dan in the end because of frustration so what separates him from the rest? (phone post so if you've done this in previous posts ok) even mirodin pointed it out

Think the prob  with the above 2 cases is that they don't seem to believe that town can make mistakes. There's a lot of misrep on Sky's part, esp on the question of content. Just because Schezo and BT look or flipped town after D1 doesn't mean that all that has been said on them have been useless.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 08:38:29 PM
Mirodin you put Dorian at level 5 but why do you have to wait for someone else to make a case to vote? Why not uuhwhat instead? (Who you also put at 5)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 08, 2014, 08:52:06 PM
Aren't you forgetting something? You need a sound cue!

Moridin: (2)  Lexicat, Schezo
Just: (2) Prims, Affinity
Primms: (2) CF7, Just
Dorian: (2) Sky_Paladin, Moridin84
Sky_Paladin: (1) Dorian

Needing to Vote: ActionDan

6 votes needed for majority
You have 51 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 08, 2014, 09:04:25 PM
##CF7

Isn't this the actual really obvious scum? Or I am missing something?

Also my little list was just separating those who voted for me vs those who didn't
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 08, 2014, 09:04:40 PM
##Vote CF7
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 08, 2014, 09:06:45 PM
@Affinity: Well, maybe I went a bit too far there, provocation has proven itself as a useful tool to me lately, if you want product reactions.
However, you can hardly deny the opportunism in Skys acts, he gave out Raikaria as his preferred lynch as he were the leading wagon just to let him fall as the Dan wagon picked up momentum again.
Everyone else gave up their pat cases to go for Raikaria or Dan but only Sky gave it up to say that he goes with Raikaria but then went with Dan. That really don't strikes you as odd, does it?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 08, 2014, 09:54:01 PM
Mirodin you put Dorian at level 5 but why do you have to wait for someone else to make a case to vote? Why not uuhwhat instead? (Who you also put at 5)
I put Dorion at level 5 in a post before the start of day 2, so I couldn't vote at that point. Next time I posted it was in the morning but I didn't have time to do more than a quick post, I didn't want to make a vote yet. Sky made his post against Dorion roughly 5 hours after that. I started reading through the thread properly and posted my opinion about 5 hours after that.

I've changed my mind about Primms, I've decreased him to level 3. Schezo as well, level 4 was too high for him in the first place.

I'm inclined to increase Just to level 5 and Sky to level 4, but I don't have a firm logical basis for that so I'll leave them as is. And yes, enough though I'm currently suspecting Dorion, I'm putting Sky at level 4. Suspicions aren't mutually exclusive things.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 10:21:39 PM
if you change scum levels of people so easily (without firm logical basis) then they simply don't mean anything.  you might as well be some kid having fun with an abacus.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 10:30:56 PM
please justify some of them.  man im kinda exasparated and stuff.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 10:46:34 PM
Quote
Everyone else gave up their pat cases to go for Raikaria or Dan but only Sky gave it up to say that he goes with Raikaria but then went with Dan. That really don't strikes you as odd, does it?

Okay fine, but to me, it would only be scummier if Sky were to move to Raikaria later in the day for town cred.  It's really subjective, and as the crux of your case it is extremely weak.

If you look at today, no one is exactly giving Sky townie points for having a token suspicion Raikaria on D1, so why do you make it out to be some kind of scheme when it hasn't really done anything?

Lastly, what do you think of huhwhat?  He has done the same as what you have accused Sky as doing, only that he came back to vote Raikaria at the end.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 08, 2014, 10:51:53 PM
Sky can you please talk to Dorian he asked you something here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126206.html#msg1126206).  Dorian could you address Sky's case and maybe defend yourself a bit.

Why aren't people talking to each other.  It's almost like people are throwing darts at images of their scumspects and trying to convince everyone else with long posts and louder noises.  marketplace of ideas.  squawk blabber blub.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 08, 2014, 11:03:46 PM
if you change scum levels of people so easily (without firm logical basis) then they simply don't mean anything.  you might as well be some kid having fun with an abacus.
Quote
please justify some of them.  man im kinda exasperated and stuff.
Well to be honest, these are just internal impressions, based on the things I have already stated in the thread. I didn't really expect anyone to put much thought into parsing them.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 11:24:20 PM
Affinity
Quote
Sky can you please talk to Dorian he asked you something here. 
I planned to get around to this when I finished reviewing day 1 but OK. 

Dorian;
"I already Pointed out how he dropped me to give out Raikaria as his ?preferred scum lunch.?  for no apparent reason."

Reasons stated in the post that you actually linked (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125710.html#msg1125710) are as follows:
I want to lunch Rai for his stubborn hang up and continues for "it must be Sky or CF7" or "it mus be Sky or LLD" mislynch strat he used in his last scum game.
Agree that Rais fake forget appears super fake also.
Still think Dorian is scum. 
Prefered lunch is Raikaia ATM. Will review and pos points before voting.
***I have snipped out points that aren't relevant***

The content of this post clearly establishes why I considered Raikaria scum.  It is a straight out lie to say 'for no apparent reason'. 

Dorian
Quote
His next post is mostly a list of reasons why he wants to lynch Dan,

In the same post you linked, previously, I stated:
"Could lunch Dan for him popping in to say yeah I'm prod dodging watchagonnadoaboutitlololol annoyance. Why sign up if you're not gonna play.
Prefered lunch is Raikaia ATM. Will review and pos points before voting."
The second post you are referring to is this one (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.180.html) where I respond to BT who is asking me about you (Dorian). 
I state (about Dorian):
Quote
BT - I expected Dorian to respond to my case. The confirm post is one part. The Dan policy lynch fence sitting was another part. Dorian chose to hand wave it away as nonsensical. I didn't have an opportunity to follow this up because I am in my iPhone and its too difficult to quote, check and post. I just read the thread and sniff for clues. I wasn't satisfied with Dorians content which is why I am still voting him and listed him as scum in my last blarble.  I think Dorian is scum, I don't feel like anybody beleives me though.

And about Dan
Quote
The reason I would lynch Dan over other afk people is multiple.
1 - Dan is chronically afk and it seems like every game on LYLO or the day before LYLO there is a big jama over not knowing his alignment due to lack of posting. It's a problem.
2 - Dan his strategy is to lurk, we want to do, discourage this anti social tendency by lynching lurkers. In any case he can always get out by posting content.
3 - this game he already posted and had no comment on the three or four things that were happening and made no effort. It frustrates me。

Basically you can see my urge to kill frustrating players rising. 

Also I just realised in all of the end of day 1, even when he was at L-1, I never saw Dan claim?  Maybe I missed it (there was A LOT that popped up while I was asleep and I still didn't get to read the thread properly), but I would have thought a town player would have claimed in that position. 

Dorian
"Sure, that case was the best thing that day but how exactly does BTs townnyness makes Raikaria scum?"

I said:
Quote
I thought I would have a good chance to go through the thread. I don't. I am on holiday and sent v/la to mod but igurss it was too drink post lol. At this stage I am willing so sheep BT on Raikaria because I think BT is town. I am suspiciois of Bard voting Dan over Rai.

Raikaria flipped scum and BT flipped town, so...
I thought BT made a good case and I wanted to run with it. 

Quote
What happened to your own reason to prefer Raikarias lynch?
I am used to people ignoring my cases but it doesn't make me feel any better about it.  The only time when we've ever lynched somebody that I've started a case on was DNA in Choose Your Own Mafia.  I catch scum often on day 1 and then get discouraged and go off track.  I felt my case on you was much stronger, and people ignored it.  I felt my points on Raikaria were relevant but I didn't have time to sit down and elucidate it clearly, so I expected people to ignore it.  I had very little time and I didn't want to waste it. 
In this quagmire of frustration, I thought Raikaria was unlikely to be lynched - a little later on, BT asks me to pick a wagon before I go to sleep, and I thought Rai only had 2 votes.  If I had known my vote would have tied the wagon I would have voted Rai.  I thought there was a good chance Dan was scum lurking and that a vote on Dan would not be wasted. 

Dorian
Quote
And why is Bard suspicious for voting Dan when you see so many reasons to vote the guy yourself?
Which you finally did here. Dan is a lost case and you apologize to Bard for being a hypocrite but that doesn't explains why you criticized him in the first place nor why Raikaria isn't a thing anymore.

I criticed Bard for voting Dan over Rai because I felt he was putting a vote in on an afk player instead of somebody he perceived as scum.  I apologised to Bard because I then later felt the same righteous fury and understood his position. 

***

Dorian is scum because his case is awful, misreppy, and if he had spent an iota of time reading the posts he quoted from, the main points would vanish. 
Dorian is scum because his case is wagon analysis and picking one of my posts apart (poorly) instead of looking for scum intent, or something that would actually support his points. 
Dorian is scum because his case uses 'begging the question', a logical fallacy, as the main part of his argument. 
There's plenty of scum intent in his posts - he was trying to shift the lynch of Raikaria on day 1 by attacking Raikaria's critics, notably Schezo and BT. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 08, 2014, 11:33:55 PM
Can somebody please post about the case on Bard and/or Prims?  It's clear I won't get a chance to analyse this properly on my own and I need to look at them. 

Also, I don't want Lexi getting a free pass for doing nothing.  Lexicat, why are you voting Moridin?  You just quoted him and voted. 

Dan, what's your reason for voting CF7? (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126376.html#msg1126376)  You just said he is obvious scum and voted. 

On day 1 you also said Raikaria was obvious scum very early in the phase but did not vote.  Since Raikaria was scum I'm very interested in this.

Also, re: Moridin and Schezo, from my big wall post -

Moridin claims  (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125442.html#msg1125442) (and has now established) ability to talk at night. 

Schezo (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125547.html#msg1125547) questioning Moridin on his ability.  The wording seems to me that Schezo is surprised that Moridin is 'the only one' with this ability.  Seeing as I think Schezo is super town I don't want him to claim but if you have any...I don't know, inside info, let us know with a vote. 
*observes Schezo voting Moridin day 2* Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Is there any chance you could clarify on this?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 01:33:07 AM
Bard's copious amount of reasons (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125470.html#msg1125470) for voting huhwhat D1 had almost nil effect on the game at all, since he's now sheeping CF7 and voting him for shadows of a bus.
I agree, sheeping Affinity.

really though Bard if you're town what happened to your D1 effort? I'm having a hard time seeing you as town now because even disregarding why I find you scummy it seems like you JUST don't care. "LLD slipped my mind" doesn't happen from people focusing on the game, I especially don't think it happens from somebody who hates people who sign up and barely play.

##CF7

Isn't this the actual really obvious scum? Or I am missing something?

Also my little list was just separating those who voted for me vs those who didn't
God damn it Dan this is not how you convince people to vote with you in forum mafia. Why should I be voting CF7 over Bard? Why aren't you voting Bard? What happened to wanting Moridin dead? For fuck's sake Dan play the game you signed up for there haven't been that many pages it's noooooot haaaaaaard.

Can somebody please post about the case on Bard and/or Prims?  It's clear I won't get a chance to analyse this properly on my own and I need to look at them. 
The Bard case has been summed up pretty succinctly by both me and Affinity today. The Prims case is that people failed associative tells 101.

RE: Sky: even if Dorian was actively being called out he specifically put himself in the position of the day's hammerer hours before, it's not too hard to just log out and coast, which is what many scum would do in that position
Also Sky, Dan definitely did vote Raikaria ED1 and it was the whole reason I pushed him, what are you on about?
Schezo isn't almost certainly town at all since he wasn't critical in getting Raikaria lynched or anything. Both he and Raikaria were willing to drop eachother superficially despite acting confident about their reads on eachother.

I feel similarly to Affinity about Dorian's Sky case. tbh I don't think either lynch is the play for today.

Moridin's scum levels are some Zak-in-Villains-1 padding shit and I don't see why he can't just tell us who he thinks is scum and why.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 01:34:50 AM
if there's a backup in the game they should make sky and dorian lovers that'd be funny (don't actually do this)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 09, 2014, 01:37:07 AM
Well CF7 is unmemorable to me besides voting me for ... some reason they never stated I think.  Might as well purge it.  I'm getting slightly cold feet on Moridin, though he'd be choice #2.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 01:41:07 AM
town can be unmemorable. what makes cf7 unmemorable scum and not unmemorable town. your posts read like you just skimmed the game and voted on gut and called that "obvious scum"

read bard pls

if cf7 is town then BBM or Conq need to sub into that slot and save me from this inactivity slapfight hell orz
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 01:43:58 AM
you also never got back to me on dorian/schezo town...
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 09, 2014, 01:55:45 AM
Schezo being active and enthusiastic about lynching raikaria end of day makes him town enough.  Dorian passing up the chance to hammer me gives him a pass himself
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 01:57:50 AM
i don't think the point during which he was being enthusiastic was vital enough for him to really have had an effect on the lynch

w/e i will leave schezo for later since all of nobody seems to agree with me on him. bard needs to go, moridin needs to go but not as much as bard
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 02:18:02 AM
I'm down to lynch Moridin or Sky Palladin today. Not interested in a cf7 or Bard lynch.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 03:48:51 AM
Affinity, who do you consider a good lynch aside from Bard? Even though you're engaging with people a lot, your other reads aren't that clear.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 04:27:05 AM
Lexi - can you be bothered to explain your reasons for being happy with a Sky or Moridin lynch?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 04:28:53 AM
Ebwop because it seems I only made your shit list when I asked you to explain your Moridin vote.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 04:53:14 AM
Lexi - I noticed on the reread you had something to check on me day 1 - what was it?

Prims: I didn't realize Dorian was around。I did notice Lexi threaten to vig Dorian if he hammered Dan though. I don't think this would stop a scum hammering their buddy in the slightest however.

Dan did not vote Raikaia. He voted Moridin and switched I Rai because counterwagon.

Very interested in what Schezo has to say etc.

Dorian serious question time. How much of your case on me is because I have been scum reading you all game?

Also, are you scum?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 04:58:32 AM
yeah but he had his vote on raikaria for all of ED1 over a case so contrived it makes more sense as paranoid town than a bus
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 09, 2014, 05:38:44 AM
are you talking about me?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 05:42:26 AM
yea

dan if you have time to see that im talking about you you have time to contribute to the game. come ON
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 09, 2014, 05:46:00 AM
I believe my vote speaks to my maverick sense of scum hunting. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 09, 2014, 05:53:27 AM
@huhwhat: To be honest I don't have much of an idea.  There are too many null reads like Lexicat/CF7 etc.  I would vote mioridin, but something tells me he's putting in too much effort and making obvious mistakes.  For example, there isn't much of a reason for him to say that his read on you suddenly became level 3 or what not; he could easily just live without it.  There's an earnestness to his play that feels hard to fake so I'm actually leaning town on him.  Would prob only lynch him as a last resort or sth.

===

But I can actually get behind your Schezo vote after some (further reading).  Thought him town at first for his long Rai vote, but then he voted for Rai as such:

Quote
but Raikaria is scum though.  He has nothing to say about the entire game posting so lets go back to rvs.

which is completely uninspiring and not something anyone can get behind (compare to BT, he doesn't even chip into his case!).  It's very isolated, and it's not even true after midway through the game when Rai actually says a lot of things (and Schezo doesn't follow up).  He also often says suspects ActionDan (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125613.html#msg1125613) and even votes him, but there's nothing saying why Raikaria is scummier than ActionDan all day.

Lastly, Raikaria's move (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125687.html#msg1125687) away from Schezo is really awkward.  In this post he actually doesn't talk about how Schezo was getting better at all, only saying how other scumspects like Sky and people got 'far worse'.  He even goes to say that he would never move back to Schezo (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125780.html#msg1125780) unless Sky and LLD do great things.  What I said here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125801.html#msg1125801) yesterday applies to Schezo as well, and Rai as flipped scum doesn't bode well for him.

Schezo's D2 is also pretty waffly and going after the easy guy mirodin (with a tinge of huhwhat), so yeah, actually I'm all for lynching Schezo as well!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 09, 2014, 05:57:22 AM
Lastly well, Sky_paladin's schtick on Dorian reminds me of Bard D1 and leaves a bad aftertaste.  There's only one possible answer to:

Quote
Dorian serious question time. How much of your case on me is because I have been scum reading you all game?

Also, are you scum?

and these two questions serve nothing but to create noise and to antagonize Dorian.  The direction he's taking makes me far less willing to listen to his case really.  Someone to be looked at tomorrow maybe.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 06:07:23 AM
I believe my vote speaks to my maverick sense of scum hunting.
unless you're the Town Sextuplevoter it is also totally useless because nobody else wants to lynch CF7 and you're not doing anything to convince them to. tbh I am reconsidering the cred I gave you from Raikaria's flip even though I shouldn't be, just because you although clearly have the time to check the thread and post you're being an obstinate waste of a playerslot when you should KNOW you're not helping Town right now.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 06:15:16 AM
also I don't consider LLD null. I don't think Raikaria was distancing from LLD when he blew up at her at the end of D1, solely because he tried to pass himself off as not mad (so he'd be viewed as town and not upset scum) instead of overreacting to create more of a rift between them in everybody's minds.

This is some armchair psychology shit but whatever it's probably true.

Everything I've said to Dan today also applies to LLD though.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 06:17:24 AM
the "i'm annoyed with how obstinate you are" parts, not the "i'm wavering on my read here" parts, if lld is scum then she and raikaria did a damn fine acting job and i feel they'd have tackled it differently if that was their goal
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 09, 2014, 06:53:38 AM
Wubbadubbadubba, izzat true?
...donk.

Moridin: (2)  Lexicat, Schezo
Just: (2) Prims, Affinity
Primms: (2) CF7, Just
Dorian: (2) Sky_Paladin, Moridin84
Sky_Paladin: (1) Dorian
CF7: (1) ActionDan

6 votes needed for majority
You have 41 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 06:57:20 AM
lol no wagons over 2 again

turn that Just (2) into a Just (6) and we could have a SCUM LYNCH

i am actually confused why so many people aren't even looking into Bard since he's been a hot target both days and the dead guy who brought us our D1 scum lynch went down agreeing he was mafia
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 08:17:41 AM
Affinity
Quote
and these two questions serve nothing but to create noise and to antagonize Dorian. 

I asked Dorian this because I wanted to see more content from him.  I've posted a lot and only Dorian has a problem with it; other people (yourself and Lex) have said they don't like me but never say why. 

Quote
The direction he's taking makes me far less willing to listen to his case really. 

A case is good or bad regardless of it's 'direction'.  This is a really bizarre thing to say. 

***

I feel like nobody is playing this game and I'm about to give up scumhunting and just go clear house on afk players. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 08:23:41 AM
Vote: Sky Paladin

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 08:24:40 AM
Cut by Lexi voting me for...presumably talking about lynching afk players? 

##unvote
##vote Affinity


I'll do this while I review. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 08:26:40 AM
Quote
other people (Affinity and Lex) have said they don't like me but never say why. 

*Lex votes for Sky*

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

No no.  That'd be too obvious.  It can't be. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: CF7 on September 09, 2014, 08:30:42 AM
I am much more busy than i thought i would be. So, i'd like to ask Zak for a replacement.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 08:35:14 AM
I changed my mind, I'm happy to lynch Bard or Sky today.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 08:36:45 AM
Hey Sky, if I'm scum, tell me why I would bus Rakaria (at 5 votes) over hammering Dan at 6 votes at the deadline or just not posting at all?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 08:50:07 AM
Well I'll ask it back to you - if I'm scum, why did Raikaria spend all game trying to discredit my votes on a player who would by definition not be my scum buddy?  It makes no sense at all.  So let's avoid that wifom mess.  The fact that you are voting me at all is very bad when I'm obv town only nobody cares because I pushed an unpopular lynch. 

Lex, you never explained why you voted for Moridin.  You put me on your shit list when I asked you to explain about it.  Now you're voting me because I mentioned clearing out afk players (and I didn't even mention you by name).  You still haven't provided an explanation or reasoning or cared to share anything at all with anybody. 

I'll ask the same thing that I asked earlier - Explain yourself.  Surely you can do at least that?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 08:55:25 AM
I have no desire or need to explain my votes to you.

In addition, the situation you described is called "distancing" and is a common scum tactic.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 08:56:21 AM
Do you have any more weak posts you want me to consider or can I go back to just lynching you?

Also, it's Alexis or Lexi or LLD. Not Lex. Thanks.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 08:58:56 AM
or LSD. You can call me LSD if you want.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 09:09:37 AM
##unvote
##vote Affinity

what
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 09:17:03 AM
Quote
I have no desire or need to explain my votes to you.

How about the rest of the players? 

Quote
In addition, the situation you described is called "distancing" and is a common scum tactic.

Interestingly, Raikaria was 'distancing' himself from you once a wagon started appearing on him.  Until that point I don't think he mentioned it. 

I'll go back and check to be sure but for now...

##unvote
##vote Lexi


Partly attitude/hostility to town.  Case/quotes/etc coming later.  I thought what Affinity did was weird and bad so I voted him while I went back to check but this happened instead. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 09:19:19 AM
You are flailing really really hard right now.

People who are interested in lynching Bard. I will lynch Bard tomorrow if we lynch Paladin today.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 09:22:06 AM
SP why did you switch to Affinity after having him in guaranteed town over interactions earlier?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 09:24:03 AM
I can answer that for you. He's scum fabricating his reads.

oh and prims if you want an explanation of my vote on you I can tell you in endgame if you'd like.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 09:28:38 AM
Quote
I thought what Affinity did was weird and bad so I voted him while I went back to check but this happened instead. 

Affinity was in Basically confirmed town tier which is not the same as 'confirmed town tier'.  I'm willing to flip my list on it's head if new information comes to light that challenges what I believe.  I couldn't believe what Affinity said came from town. 

Lexi
Quote
You are flailing really really hard right now.

...I'm asking you to explain your votes and countervoting you for failing to do so.  If you can't explain why your voting somebody, then why are you voting them. 

Quote
People who are interested in lynching Bard. I will lynch Bard tomorrow if we lynch Paladin today.

What.  The.  Hell. 

Prims, what do you make of this, seeing as your around?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 09:30:09 AM
OK so now I'm not sure if I'm voting Lexi because scum or if I'm voting her because she's a bad player. 

*scratches his head*  I've never played with Lexi before.  Can anybody vouch for her meta that she is normally an anti-social troll, or is this actually legitimate scummy behaviour?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 09:36:29 AM
Would you perchance happen to be a programmer with a hard on for overly analytical thinking and large useless quote walls?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 09:43:10 AM
Also once again what is with people assuming I'm an idiot who votes for no reason. Everything I do has a reason behind it, I just don't feel any real obligation or reason to explain why I do what I do all the time.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 09:45:29 AM
Just so people think I'm not full of poop, here's some of those 'distancing' posts I'm saying Raikaria put up. 

Raikaria at L-2

First post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125780.html#msg1125780), Raikaria on Sky and Lexicat.  Main point:
"Sky's has misguided town intent because he is at least attempting to form cases and look for scum. It's not great and I don't like his Dorian case one bit but he could he a townie just making bad cases. Sky does this quite a lot. He also tends to over-react to votes. Lexicat is basically doing nothing at all. He even outright says 'I don't have anything.'"

"I probobly will not be swapping back to Schezo unless he does something really bad or both Sky and Lexicat impress me, while no-one else slips up. "

***No real difference between Sky/Lex at this stage from Raik-o-pinion***

Post 2 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125896.html#msg1125896) - Raikaria completely abandons Sky and wishes for a Lex death. 

When a lynch of Raikaria seemed very likely, we got this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125901.html#msg1125901) where Raikaria pours it all out.  There's nothing left for me :C

Anyway, so this is mostly to highlight that Lexi's distancing point (which is her only stated point at this stage) applies to both of us, and more strongly to her.  So, at worst, it's nothing, and at best, it's a scumtell for Lexi. 

Lexi, this is the thing I referred to earlier that you said -
Also, the thing I wanted to follow up on involves Sky Paladin, so I'm gonna hold on to it for the moment, since it's not relevant to this lynch. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125879.html#msg1125879)

Care to follow it up now?

Cut -
Quote
Would you perchance happen to be a programmer with a hard on for overly analytical thinking and large useless quote walls?
My signature has a link to my programming blog so the first point isn't hard to deduce.  The rest is a matter of opinion. 

Anyway I didn't expect my handwave 'curse those damned afks' to get this kind of explosion so I haven't actually looked at Lexi's posts yet, I'll do it later. 

***

Quote
Also once again what is with people assuming I'm an idiot who votes for no reason. Everything I do has a reason behind it, I just don't feel any real obligation or reason to explain why I do what I do all the time.

I don't think you are an idiot.  We players are not psychic and how can we agree/disagree with you if you don't tell us what you think? 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 09:47:31 AM
Quote
Everything I do has a reason behind it, I just don't feel any real obligation or reason to explain why I do what I do all the time.

It is reasonable to ask for an explanation for people's votes because the absolute number one way to catch scum is when they make votes for a bad or falsified reason.  If you won't explain your vote, we have no way of knowing what your real motive is. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 09:50:49 AM
Mmmm, no I still don't care.

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 09:51:43 AM
And it would be really nice if you would stop calling me Lex. Thanks.

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 09:57:48 AM
Prims, what do you make of this, seeing as your around?
OK so now I'm not sure if I'm voting Lexi because scum or if I'm voting her because she's a bad player. 

*scratches his head*  I've never played with Lexi before.  Can anybody vouch for her meta that she is normally an anti-social troll, or is this actually legitimate scummy behaviour?
if it helps i won a scum game once because she got shadoweh mislynched on a fake cop claim.

even regardless of her meta though she's just not scum due to raikaria interactions. what i make of the quote is that lld is town trying to get her scumread lynched. go by my explanation for town!lld if you don't buy hers.

UNFORTUNATELY i also think you're really god damn obvious town based on a number of things - motivation level today in general despite having several valid IRL reasons to not give a single shit during :deadtown:, LLD vote is pretty blatantly a Town Frustration vote and not like Raikaria's because that backfired for scum last time and nobody wants her lynched right now so as scum you'd be picking unnecessary fights, also "I can't believe X would do this as town" is, in this context, the rhetoric of town who feels slighted and has certain assumptions about how townies behave as a whole - so yeah, not taking her up on that

Would you perchance happen to be a programmer with a hard on for overly analytical thinking and large useless quote walls?
if it helps i ... well i don't know what he does for a living but yeah that is pretty much his playstyle and my understanding is that his scum play is a lot more safe.

sky's "fabricated" reads are because he is town but is doubting himself and waffling, something that makes sense given game state. it isn't hard to remember your fake opinions as scum and, at sky's level of experience, when you do you're self-conscious about them and need to justify every change of opinion
this especially stands if you're going to argue he has a hard-on for analytic thinking. people like that keep track of this shit

sky go read the bard cases, you've been putting it off forever. lld just isn't scum. affinity probably isn't scum either, his vote was at a crucial point on raikaria's lynch, him using weird rhetoric doesn't magically undo this

tl;dr please don't fight :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 09:58:25 AM
Hmm. 

Lexi, you are in a quicktopic with Bard, yes?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 09:58:55 AM
if it helps i won a scum game once because she got shadoweh mislynched on a fake cop claim.
uh, as town, otherwise that would mean something very different

granted that meta is at least a year old but my point is she plays selfishly.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 10:00:32 AM
Prims if I told you I was already getting ready to hop off the SP wagon onto something more likely to flip scum but wanted to keep applying pressure, what would you say?

I kinda can't do that anymore because your above post basically said exactly what I was already thinking and kind of ruins any reactions I could get.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 10:01:15 AM
Hmm. 

Lexi, you are in a quicktopic with Bard, yes?

I'm honestly not even going to dignify this with a response.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 10:02:26 AM
uh, as town, otherwise that would mean something very different

granted that meta is at least a year old but my point is she plays selfishly.

I'd like to point out that that meta is like 2 years old at least and also that I was going through a particularly bad time in my life at that point, and did some really stupid shit because I was a bit off my rocker.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 10:04:49 AM
i claimed masons as scum that game because I thought it would be funny and i wasn't off my rocker irl so i probably shouldn't be making jabs vOv
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 10:06:35 AM
Pft. People are too quick to judge gambits as being bad. Now obviously there's a difference between that gambit and claiming a guilty on someone as the cop when you were roleblocked. (I mean, I wasn't TOTALLY crazy, I WAS a cop, I just got "no result").

No yeah I was very very crazy.  :V
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 10:07:19 AM
On the other hand I still have no reason to explain what I'm thinking.

Prims, you're gonna have to sell me on Bard today.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 10:12:35 AM
anyway I dunno what to tell you about Sky, I think he's town at this point and I don't think anything more is needed to come to that conclusion but if you wanted to be super sure of yourself then sorry. Playstyles are something we should be discussed postgame at this point.

if I sell you on Bard it's gonna be have to be tomorrow. although I was planning on staying up super late tonight I wasn't planning on dedicating it to Mafia.

tl;dr though: he hates low-content players but never tries to get anything out of Dan until it's counterwagon time and skips you entirely (I don't buy that you'd just "slip his mind" when he's the sort of person who gets irritated about these things), pours large effort into a back-and-forth with me when I'm attacking him and his case D1 but when it's D2 his effort is suddenly minimal and skips over associative tells. When you're town and lynch scum D1 you're super motivated going into D2 since you have shiny new important info to work off of, not so much as scum who just lost their buddy.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 09, 2014, 10:14:58 AM
also fwiw I apologize for the snippy comments D1. Most were made with the hope they'd spur you into being more open as I have trouble working with your playstyle but yeah I was being an ass unnecessarily.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 10:15:35 AM
the reactions weren't about Sky, prims. they were about someone else.

I can actually buy that Bard case, let me reread some shit.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 10:15:58 AM
also fwiw I apologize for the snippy comments D1. Most were made with the hope they'd spur you into being more open as I have trouble working with your playstyle but yeah I was being an ass unnecessarily.

They didn't bother me and showed me you were totally town?

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 11:07:41 AM
I have reason to beleive Just and Lexi are sharing a quicktopic. I don't know if it is as neighbors, masons, or scum, but Lexi's refusal to clarify makes me think it is the latter.  This also explains why Bard skipped Lexi in Prims case, earlier.

Therefore I'm going to go with a flip of Bard being very likely to be scum, and also indicative of Lexi's alignment.  Just has more votes than Lexi, so Ill vote Bard. 

##invote
##vote Just


I'll explain why I came to this conclusion in a little bit and others can agree/disagree with my interpretation of events. But for now I want to see some responses to my many, many questions, and content from Just and Lexi. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 09, 2014, 11:18:41 AM
I would really love if people were to explain why exactly they think I'm MAFIA.

Everyone else gets quotes and arguments, I just get unexplained votes and vague comments. I've been ignoring them because they seem pointless, however, I have a feeling I may end up being lynched purely on that, which I find mildly offensive.

i am actually confused why so many people aren't even looking into Bard since he's been a hot target both days and the dead guy who brought us our D1 scum lynch went down agreeing he was mafia
I think the main problem is that you and Affinity are so super convinced that Just is MAFIA, that you never really explained it properly.

I don't need you need to link his posts or anything elaborate. A simply list of 5 or more points from both you and Affinity would suffice.

I'm not trying to defend Just here. I just want you to explain things in a way that I can understand.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 09, 2014, 12:34:42 PM
Actually I'm going to jump on the Just wagon. Not because I'm convinced he is MAFIA (still want those arguments from Primms and Affinity), or because I'm convinced Dorion isn't (need to review) but because Just hasn't posted very much in day 2 and it's suspicious. It could be that he's actually MAFIA but is not posting in hopes that everyone forgets about him.

Voting should put Just under pressure to talk, though ideally not at L-1, four hours before lynch time like with ActionDan.

##unvote
##vote Just
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 09, 2014, 12:42:49 PM
Oh, I just realized that I missed the almost the entirety of page 15.

And Primms does explain his case there. Most of his argument is meta which I don't know about, so I need another player to confirm / deny this interpretation. The other part is a comment on Justs lack of effort, which is a good point.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 09, 2014, 12:43:04 PM
Quote
nobody explains why it's scum!me doing that as a bus and not just, you know, town me being convinced by the guy who got shot

Dislike this argument because "guy who got shot" only became known as such after N1. "I followed Townie" only valid if knew was Townie when you sheeped. Reason to get off Dan was "don't like company", when company on wagon isn't indication of whether wagon is Town or Scum. Weak reason to jump off imo.

Quote
Bard's copious amount of reasons for voting huhwhat D1 had almost nil effect on the game at all

People tend not to buy into any of my cases in any given game, thanks for rubbing it in. Don't see how lacking persuasion is scummy. Case is solid to me.
Affinity misrep with "aren't considering anyone else": I make case on scummiest person and focus attention there. You only talk about me, pot calling kettle black; no one else seems scum to you? Actually don't like arguments as here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=78) because Mafia isn't just logical game.

Quote
really though Bard if you're town what happened to your D1 effort?
University of Law.



Sky thinks LSD has a QT with me and so votes me because I have more votes? This town.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 09, 2014, 01:01:48 PM
LSD barely posted D1 and slipped mind because doesn't play often. I've been through back-and-forth with Dan before over posting minimal, get tired of it. Ironic people voting me partially due to low amt of posts, but wcyd.
Dan content posts at L-1, then no content at L-6 again. Frustrated.
Huh What efforts today litany of Bard Bard Bard, desperate begging for votes seems town enough so willing to put that to rest.
##Unvote

Not fond of Affinity as listed above, misrepping case(s?) while citing stuff as "scummy" that is personality. Lack of persuasive power is personality flaw, not scummy play (unless normally persuasive, but track record of people believing my cases p. low, see DormioQTGate).
##Vote; Affinity
Also feel this line of questioning (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125804.html#msg1125804) is scum-motivated:
Quote
Secondly, it is interesting to consider that Sky_Paladin, CF7, miordin and Bardiche have all voted for ActionDan without considering Lexicat, who boasts a similar amount of content.  Why is this so?  Why Dan over LLD?
Throws dirt on LSD while refusing to bring forth reasons himself, doesn't actually mention LSD much entire game despite this. Scummy when other mention (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125801.html#msg1125801) of LSD is to lynch, never explained why, but criticises other people for not saying why (not).
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 09, 2014, 01:45:27 PM
Well he's making a comparison there.

It's not: "I want LLD lynched"
It's: "I'd lynch LLD over Dan even"
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 09, 2014, 01:46:05 PM
(imo votes on Affinity are lolzy no matter what people come up with)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 09, 2014, 03:00:57 PM
@Bard:I did not throw dirt on LSD, I was just interested to know why people (especially the new ones who didn't know LLD's meta) would go for Dan over LLD when they had the same lurker profile.

sigh whatever bard.  you're dealing with a straw-man of the beef against you, and it's tastier than what you think.  what do you think of other people like Schezo, mirodin, Sky, etc.

@Sky:  By direction I meant that you were going the route of flash and bang, creating noise.  why else would you ask Dorian 'are you scum?' or 'is your case on me cause i voted you?'.  How else do you think a person would answer other than no?  Those don't provide content at all, only bad feelings that serve to distract and stuff.  It hurts your case, whether good or bad (I think it's tunnel-y and not convincing).
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 09, 2014, 03:04:04 PM
@mirodin: Mine are here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126319.html#msg1126319)

prims' is here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126542.html#msg1126542)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 03:04:41 PM
Do not let Just get to L-1 or he may self hammer.
Please note Just and Lex's reaction to "you are in a qt together" was not any form of "it's not true" and in fact neither of them responded either way. Lex even shut up when I made my claim and vote.
I beleive this: they can't say they aren't in a qt together because they know I have something to say otherwise. 
If Bard is red Lex is absolutely scum.  If he dies while I am sleeping please anybody who can sab/shoot/disable take down Lex during the night phase.
I'll post slam dunk when after I get up, I just wanted to make sure you didn't accidentally kill Just while I was away and then I died overnight.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 09, 2014, 03:06:08 PM
whatever sky!  you're insane.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 09, 2014, 05:05:37 PM
Quote
I beleive this: they can't say they aren't in a qt together because they know I have something to say otherwise.

Asking "are you in scum QT together" is stupid question, only answer is always "no". Stupid questions with obv answers tend not to be answered, but if tickles your fancy:

LSD and I do not share a QT.

Your question is stupid. Stop 'gotcha' play, start scumhunting.

Quote
what do you think of other people like Schezo, mirodin, Sky, etc.

... Mirodin? Rhythm Heaven Mafia, more like Everyone Getting All The Names Wrong Mafia.

Read Schezo few times, not sure. Dislike argument here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126245.html#msg1126245) re: Scum!HW hammer, then cheeky "j/k" remark. If Schezo Scum then bussed Raikaria from start with shitty vague reasons? Don't think it likely.
Don't like Moridin vote for "pressure 2 talk", feels superfluous. Vote here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125566.html#msg1125566) seems insincere? What is case on ActionDan? OMGUS textbook (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126365.html#msg1126365) was read and used? Vote on me for pressure? Where are reasons?
Sky, regrettably insane. Massive walls makes me not want to read him. Latest posts imply insane again, or thinking Mafia is game where 100% sure scum will permit 'gotcha' gameplay. Sadly, playing Mafia, not Gotcha.

##Unvote
##Vote: Moridin

Affinity has opened eyes. Moridin vote reasons non-exist entire game.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 09, 2014, 05:06:22 PM
Will read Sky later, need whiskey.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night One)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 09, 2014, 06:27:26 PM
Please come and enjoy our Candy Treats, now 100% Spider free!

Just: (4) Prims, Affinity, Sky_Paladin, Moridin84
Moridin: (2)  Schezo, Just
Sky_Paladin: (2) Dorian, Lexicat
Primms: (1) CF7
CF7: (1) ActionDan

6 votes needed for majority
You have 29 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
CF7 has requested replacement. His vote will remain until I can confirm a new player.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 06:52:38 PM
Do not let Just get to L-1 or he may self hammer.
Please note Just and Lex's reaction to "you are in a qt together" was not any form of "it's not true" and in fact neither of them responded either way. Lex even shut up when I made my claim and vote.
I beleive this: they can't say they aren't in a qt together because they know I have something to say otherwise. 
If Bard is red Lex is absolutely scum.  If he dies while I am sleeping please anybody who can sab/shoot/disable take down Lex during the night phase.
I'll post slam dunk when after I get up, I just wanted to make sure you didn't accidentally kill Just while I was away and then I died overnight.

First off, you're really bad if you need me to explain why your logic here is terrible.

Secondly, you're definitely doing it on purpose at this point. Seriously stop calling me Lex.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Serela on September 09, 2014, 07:02:02 PM
Are you ready for me to play this game?! Oh boy it's gonna be a great time I haven't read a single thing before this page but I can already tell.

I haven't actually gotten CF7's rolepm yet though (just responded to Zak's request to confirm I'm able to replace in right now) so I'll see you all in a few hours or something. I need to actually read the game first either way >.>
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 09, 2014, 07:53:41 PM
... Mirodin? Rhythm Heaven Mafia, more like Everyone Getting All The Names Wrong Mafia.

Read Schezo few times, not sure. Dislike argument here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126245.html#msg1126245) re: Scum!HW hammer, then cheeky "j/k" remark. If Schezo Scum then bussed Raikaria from start with shitty vague reasons? Don't think it likely.
Don't like Moridin vote for "pressure 2 talk", feels superfluous. Vote here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125566.html#msg1125566) seems insincere? What is case on ActionDan? OMGUS textbook (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126365.html#msg1126365) was read and used? Vote on me for pressure? Where are reasons?
Sky, regrettably insane. Massive walls makes me not want to read him. Latest posts imply insane again, or thinking Mafia is game where 100% sure scum will permit 'gotcha' gameplay. Sadly, playing Mafia, not Gotcha.

##Unvote
##Vote: Moridin

Affinity has opened eyes. Moridin vote reasons non-exist entire game.
Mirodin isn't really as comical as Morrison.

And finally, someone decided to me actually reasons being voting for talking about voting for me. Kind of disappointed though, was hoping for better ones. I'm not even sure if there is anything here I need to counter.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 09, 2014, 08:04:42 PM
Serela officially replaces in for CF7

Just: (4) Prims, Affinity, Sky_Paladin, Moridin84
Moridin: (2)  Schezo, Just
Sky_Paladin: (2) Dorian, Lexicat
Serela: (1) ActionDan

6 votes needed for majority
You have 27 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 09, 2014, 09:39:42 PM
Dorian serious question time. How much of your case on me is because I have been scum reading you all game?
Well, let me rephrase that question to make it clear. What would you think of someone you suspect that answers the points you press with an all out attack against you?
Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
It's not part of my case at all but it certainly didn't helped to see you as town, I guess you get the idea.

However, I don't like it but I have to agree with HuhWhat. To pick up a fight with Affinity is a call for attention that doesn't fit in my Scum Paladin picture and if he intended to end on the Bard wagon then he would have picked a more elegant way to do so.

##Unvote


Speaking of the Bard wagon, which makes me think that I seriously missed something here.

@Bard: What made you think that going with the target of the ?policy lynch? that you obviously dissented with?
Also, and that question goes to Schezo too. The scum team already lost Raikaria, so what makes you think that his buddy would leave him with nothing else to take about at night than ?waffle on Dan and then jump on that scum slip??

I wouldn't vote Bard at the moment for obvious reason and I'm not solid on Mirodin being scum, so

##Vote: Schezo

A quick reread expose his ?turbo bussing? as a mere vote park. And where Bards day two content is lacking is Schezos as good as not extant, and his vote looks more like going the line of least resistance than actual scum hunting.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 09, 2014, 10:21:52 PM
Lexi, when I'm on my iphone, "Lexi" autocorrects to "Levi".  It got annoying having to waste precious keypresses so I decided if you couldn't be bothered to answer any of my quite reasonable questions, I couldn't be bothered pressing the extra buttons.  Anyway...

IT'S BIG REVEAL TIME!

Earlier during this day phase, Lexi said...
Quote
Would you perchance happen to be a programmer with a hard on for overly analytical thinking and large useless quote walls? (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126525.html#msg1126525)

At the time I thought, "That's awfully specific and also correct.  Did Lexi come up with it on her own, or did she have help?  And if she had help, who did she get help from?"

There's actually two players who might have helped her, but I only have a good claim against Bard. 

In Medaka Box Mafia (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.0.html), in the scum quicktopic (http://quicktopic.com/50/H/9YaFBfung2Cw), in the very last message, Just (as Bard) said:
Quote
Sky Pal is really "LOGIC STRONK" even if I think his logic is completely illogical. Maybe an appeal to logic will tickle his fancy, given that Shadoweh relies more on intuitive reasoning rather than logical reasoning.

My gut says that it's very likely Lexi didn't come up with that on her own; and instead she's going from something somebody in the scum quicktopic has written about me after she's written in there "I don't know anything about this Sky_Paladin, somebody fill me in quick." 

I think the player who most fits this mystery hand is Just.  There is also an outside chance it is Moridin, though, because we've played a lot of games together, however I don't use quote walls in Megatokyo mafia so my money is on Bard. 

***

Either way, my case boils down to 'I think Lexi had help on that statement.'  That means she's scum, or at the very least, in a quicktopic with somebody.  It is possible she came up with the conclusion on her own - the programmer bit is in my signature, however the analytical/quote walls part...isn't really reflected in this game, since I haven't made any quote walls.  Walls, yes.  Quotes, yes.  But quote-walls?  I don't think I did that here. 

I voted Bard because I thought it was most likely he was a scum buddy with Lexi, however upon reflection of a good nights sleep, I consider Lexi definitely scum and Bard only 'maybe' scum. 

So if we consider a Bard/Lexi/Raikaria scum team, there should be some interactions to support this, yes?  I'll go through and have a look now.  In the mean time, you can all review what I've said here, and either agree with Bard that I'm crazy, or at the very least come up with some colourful opinions. 

In the short term, I'm doing this. 

##unvote
##vote Lexicat


Proper case in the next post because nobody reads what I write anyway so I might as well break it up and double my chances of being read. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 10:49:54 PM
So wait, I'm sorry are you seriously saying that me reading the kind of person you are takes any extra help, let alone any effort?

That's laughable.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 10:54:29 PM
Anyway, you're town. Annoyingly bad, but town.

Vote: Just

I figure this is what I need to do today, but I'm a little nervous about Moridin/Affinity.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 09, 2014, 11:09:19 PM
Sky... you are crazy.

Leaving my vote on Just. The arguments against him are fairly reasonable.

I haven't actually read back over the Dorion stuff.

Why is Affinity suspious now? Thought he was solid TOWN.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 09, 2014, 11:13:18 PM
Read Sky Paladin in full, is understandably insane but regrettably not Scum. Votes on me are Prims and Affinity clinging to past, Moridin "pls post bard" and LSD whose arcane reasons can never be understood.

Re: Dan (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126580.html#msg1126580): Affinity bringing that up to begin with is weird; no one wants to vote LSD. I did it once. Tag teamed with UK. It was glorious. Hearts were broken. Mostly mine.

Cut by Moridin. Proving my grounds for voting: vapid vote reasons teetering on the brink of vapour.
Dorian horribly forgettable this game. Dan non-existant, Schezo taking notes.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 09, 2014, 11:17:15 PM
Reading Medaka Box, K4u gives good advice to Sky Pal. Should heed sometime. Mafia is 30/50 logic/gut imo.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 11:29:14 PM
Meow~
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 09, 2014, 11:34:06 PM
It's okay, even with your infuriatingly difficult to follow posts and reasons I don't think you're Scum; I think you'd make more of an effort to actually contribute and get people to look one way or the other.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 09, 2014, 11:35:16 PM
It's okay, even with your infuriatingly difficult to follow posts and reasons I don't think you're Scum; I think you'd make more of an effort to actually contribute and get people to look one way or the other.

Aw, it's almost like you know me~.

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 09, 2014, 11:43:26 PM
Mirodin isn't really as comical as Morrison.

And finally, someone decided to me actually reasons being voting for talking about voting for me. Kind of disappointed though, was hoping for better ones. I'm not even sure if there is anything here I need to counter.

For starters, why'd you vote me?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 10, 2014, 12:02:08 AM
Just: (4) Prims, Affinity, Moridin84, Lexicat
Moridin: (2)  Schezo, Just
Serela: (1) ActionDan
Schezo: (1) Dorian
Lexicat: (1) Sky_Paladin

Not voting: Serela

6 votes needed for majority
You have 24 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 12:13:54 AM
(I am currently voting Lexi, not Just)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 12:20:40 AM
According to that votecount you're voting both of us.

Honestly I don't know what to say, Moridin's vote on me upgrades suddenly from a pressure vote to a blanket "I agree" with everyone else, but Affinity and Huh What are the only slightly credible votes and even in Affinity's case I feel he just sticks to something that's easy to do. Huh What is by far the towniest read I have (hilariously) on my own wagon due to him going around begging for votes on me which strikes me as too much attention on himself for a mislynch as Scum, and I'd like to know his other reads (and a summarised version of tl;dr bard this is why I'm voting you).
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 10, 2014, 12:22:36 AM
bard if you want me to switch off you, you can vote schezo, scum/scum wagons are cool

town!schezo isn't going from "well it's D1, D1 is the most meaningless part of the game" to doing less than he did on D1 once it's D2. i actually feel more adamant about him being scum than you being scum but everybody thinks he's town when his interactions with raikaria are actually really bad?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 10, 2014, 12:30:48 AM
i dunno why you want me to resummarize why i find you scummy again, just read what i posted to LLD last night

otherwise I think Schezo is lazy scum and that he and Raikaria had weak cases on each other that they switched off of way too easily, including when pressure on Raikaria was mounting in Schezo's case, which is unrealistic for town who wants to lynch their scumreads. Reads like typical scum distancing.

My brain shuts down every time I try to ISO Moridin, which means he probably needs to be lynched eventually.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 12:35:41 AM
Quote
bard if you want me to switch off you, you can vote schezo, scum/scum wagons are cool

Cute.

Quote
in Affinity's case I feel he just sticks to something that's easy to do.

I guess I should've written "Huh What" there and be dead on?

Anyway you wrote you'd have to sell her on Bard "tomorrow". Me not voting Dan immediately is just stupid because even if I hate low-content players I'd always rather lynch the scums. "Effort is suddenly minimal" with "scum demotivated due to lost scumbuddy" more like Day 2 started on Monday when I have uni.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Schezo on September 10, 2014, 02:11:29 AM
Dorian are you a lyncher by any chance?
Cause me voteparking my "scumbuddy" would be insane.  Hmm let me just bus without bussing so you can all lynch my later for not bussing correctly. 
Or
I'm town who voted scum.

The reason I don't like Moridin is because he just pokes around the game instead of getting into it.  He makes a bunch of arbitrary lists that mean little to nothing when he doesn't follow them and changes them on a whim.
he's a "second pick" or "considering it" thing for everyone so just vote him off already.

town!schezo can do whatever the fuck he wants when people aren't going to scumread my tone.  I may have "hilariously bad interactions" but when they read me and say well at least he isn't scum then there's not a lot to do about lynching me.

what else.  not interested in sky lld. 
Everyone's biggest beef is my lack of motivation to play today.  I guess I'm playing again now so eh.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Serela on September 10, 2014, 02:44:48 AM
I'm eating an entire bag of candycorn as I read this game

halfway through I started wishing it was popcorn instead but yet I don't stop
Quote from: Schezo
And like the rule is you don't poke lld unless you're ready to throw down and like.. no.
I'm starting to remember exactly why HW's anonymafia identification list had "Is it UncertainKitten?" -> Yes -> "It's LadyLambdadelta."

Anyway I'm still only on like page 7 but I'm workin' on it!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 10, 2014, 02:48:52 AM
nah bard is still bad.  too little too late, to use a well-known cliche.  voting miordin all of a sudden for 'not having reasons to vote the entire game' is quite uninspiring.   It is also really really easy, which is what he's accusing huhwhat/me over?  Sigh, doesn't feel well-thought out. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Serela on September 10, 2014, 03:27:05 AM
Quote from: BT
wtf Prims there's no way you're sleeping for 16 hours.
Prims nightkilled BT for questioning the most righteous sleep schedule
Quote from: Huh, What, His Name is Prims?
ahahahahaa okay holy shit I have just come across either a SLAM DUNK of Raikaria only pretending to pay attention or the biggest Serela moment I've seen in my life.
rofllll the most amazing thing about this post is not even the post itself (I think the point is null, even if hilarious), it's that everyone starts jumping on Raikaria after this, after seeing that Raikaria turned out to be counterwagon to scum I imagine someone who jumped on around this time period is probably scum (although that's entirely speculative, so, we'll see)
Quote from: SkyPal
Prefered lunch is Raikaia ATM.
vore confirmed

Wow I think I'd consider voting my own slot if I didn't know it was me?

I dunno, I'm not really feeling a Moridin lynch (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125823.html#msg1125823). This is based on having only read most of d1 so far. At this point in the reread (entirely aware that reads not accounting for the latter half of the game is garbage) I'd probably vote Schezo or Affinity (maaaybe bard, like a distant third), albeit lacking solid reasons since I'm still working on initial information ingestion. We'll see how this changes as I go further in.

Quote from: ActionDan
I bet there will be an association between me flipping MAFIA and a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis at this point.
Any takers yet?
Quote from: Schezo
Nah dood we lynch him tomorrow. Lynch Raikaria 2day
There's plenty of these, technically they aren't that bad since town can really want raikaria lynched too (bt is shining example) but I already kinda wanted to lynch him so
Quote from: ActionDan
I dunno his demeanor.  posting style.  MAYBE ITS JUST HIS MUSCULAR CATBOI AVI.  MAYBE I AM WEAK TO ITS CHARMS.
Schezo confirmed for mind control beams except Dan flipped scum
Quote from: Huh, what?
schezo/bard/cf7
gdi hw why do I always want to sheep you I swear I had these opinions before I got here just add affinity ahead of bard/cf7

yeah hw is town (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125912.html#msg1125912) but then again I pretty much always read hw as town, even when he's scum, all the time ;_; But no I think he's town

okay I finished d1, oof it's nearly midnight and I have work tomorrow
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Serela on September 10, 2014, 03:28:17 AM
motherfucker I'm retarded I thought I cleared remembered DAN flipped scum in the 1v1 not RAIKARIA

gdi

my reads

they're broken now
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Serela on September 10, 2014, 03:29:24 AM
how

how did I

why

I'm just going to give up here and go to sleep, see you in the morning

Quote
or the biggest Serela moment I've seen in my life.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Serela on September 10, 2014, 03:31:28 AM
I -didn't even notice when reading the lynch over again- until I realized Dan was still posting d2 and I just went "wait... what?"

...yes, I'm getting in bed before dealing with this over again, I went through all of d1 keeping in mind Raikaria was the scum counterwagon and Dan was scum, and my read list is fucked due to it being the other way around
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 03:48:25 AM
Guys day is not done yet. Even assuming Bard is scum, there is probably a third one out there. Who is it?

Prims what do you think of Lexi? 
Bard, if you are town, who do you think is scum and why?  Even if you think I'm insane will you really ignore two pages of petulance "just because?"

Schezo, are you going to counterclaim Moridon or not?

Assum Bard flips green. What then?  Assume Bard flips red. Who is scum number 3 and why?

Moridin the reason people are scum reading is iirc you are only defending yourself. You need to engage other players and convince us why they are scum. Also why do you dismiss my case on Lexi as crazy. There are very real reasons to think Lexi had help, such as there not being wall quotes from me in this game.

Like I am sick of everybody going "yes player x is town." Town reading players doesn't really help us ge ahead and just encourages scum to hit the popular town people.

Lexi, what is your plan? You went from voting me to saying I'm town for mystery reasons. On day 1 you said you had something to catch up with me but never clarified it.

I'm home in a few hours then I'm gonna take names and bust skulls. You lot are far too complacent. Yes there is a scum dead. Yes there are a bunch of people who seem towny.

But you know what, scum can bus and they can superbus the hell out of each other. We don't really know even if Prims is town because of that possibility.  Players are not engaging each other and the clock is winding down.

I'm gonna go through this game and start fights with all of you. I'm sick of this apathy. I signed up to play and have fun, but I'm just being ignored and laughed at. Why the hell would I try so hard to get my Megatokyo pals to come here if this is the quality of game you show?  It's disgusting. I'm shamed and embarassed by the group lethargy.

We lunched a scum great job but THE GAME IS NOT OVER. Pull your heads out and start reading, asking questions, answer other players, and following things up.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Schezo on September 10, 2014, 03:50:30 AM
L- l- l- ewd baka!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Schezo on September 10, 2014, 03:51:47 AM
Wait what.  Actually, sky do me this big huge favor and sheep my Moridin votes and sheep it's case and I'll do something cool.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Serela on September 10, 2014, 03:54:41 AM
Quote
Also why do you dismiss my case on Lexi as crazy.
Any case consisting of "I think their scumbuddies told them to say this" is almost certainly an awful case, I'm sorry. It happened a game or two ago with someone too, and everyone's response was pretty much the same, don't remember if you made that case or who. (still awake because I have to put in my contacts before I go to sleep, the right one feels weird tonight... w/e)

Even if I tried to take it seriously, the thought that someone would ask their scumbuddies for info like that on you and then come in thread saying "Oh hey are you a programmer who loves analytical info?" after being told it, just sounds like an absolutely terrible idea on their end, and is frankly not very believable. The former would be understandable (albiet unlikely) but then applying that info in such a manner in the latter is dubious and pointless.

anyway I can't properly comment on the game since even my d1 read turned out to be completely screwed, so /sleep
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Schezo on September 10, 2014, 04:10:16 AM
Serela could do that for me too.
Since like. He's gonna check the thread again
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 10, 2014, 04:44:15 AM
Schezo, I'm being sold on a Bard lynch today. Sell me in like 30 words or less on a Moridin lynch (hint: it won't take much.)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 10, 2014, 04:55:01 AM
Also, I respect that you're trying really hard to get me to interact with you SP, but I have no desire to. Putting myself into the bullets for bullets logic arguments only creates large unreadable walls of "content" that people won't want to read. Things get lost in the middle and that's how you create apathy. Hint: Creating Apathy is a scum goal.

If I can create pressure using my votes and words and force people to take a serious look at me and evaluate my alignment based on my actions and votes as opposed to walls of words, I'm doing my job well. It means I can get decent reads off their reactions to both me and the people I pressure. I'm very invested in keeping my cards held to my chest.

The downside is if I play really terribly, it's pretty much impossible to convince the town of anything.  And it happens.

So no, I still have no desire to answer your questions beyond me saying "if you want the answer to the 'what I saw on day 1' question, re-read my posts. I already answered it."

I would say I'm sorry, but I'm not going to apologize for my playstyle so long as I find it effective both in theory and in practice.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 10, 2014, 04:58:08 AM
What I mean by I'm invested in keeping my cards to my chest is that if people know exactly where you're coming from, you're much easier to play around. It's a lot easier to react how in a manner that will make you look town.

And the fact is that both factions want to appear town, because it benefits both their win conditions, so in every way, being predictable and easy to play into is bad for me.

And that's the last I'll say on anything meta regarding my playstyle, at least until endgame. For now, I wanna hear Schezo on Moridin.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Moridin on September 10, 2014, 10:12:52 AM
Quote from: ActionDan
For starters, why'd you vote me?
I gave my reasons before right? I don't want to bother going over then again, since I assume that you simply think these reasons are stupid. It doesn't really matter anymore right?

Quote from: Schezo
The reason I don't like Moridin is because he just pokes around the game instead of getting into it.  He makes a bunch of arbitrary lists that mean little to nothing when he doesn't follow them and changes them on a whim.
he's a "second pick" or "considering it" thing for everyone so just vote him off already.
Perhaps you haven't realized this but I don't know what I'm doing.

I'm trying to figure out various things. Figuring out the best way to read people, the best way to present my opinions,  what opinions to bring up and what not, etc, etc. This is also why the way I'm posting now is different to how I was posting in the last game.

Quote from: Sky_Paladin
Moridin the reason people are scum reading is iirc you are only defending yourself. You need to engage other players and convince us why they are scum. Also why do you dismiss my case on Lexi as crazy. There are very real reasons to think Lexi had help, such as there not being wall quotes from me in this game.
I only started doing that because I got annoyed about everyone making vague comments about me.

That's all I'm talking about now because, for some reason, whenever I think about making a post analysing whom I think the MAFIA are, I feel tired and unmotivated. For example, I was planning to read over all the Dorion stuff before switching to Just. Then when I actually switched to Just, I planned to make a big post talking about it.

I think my brain has decided on Just and then shutdown on the whole issue. Maybe it will start up again before the phase ends? Of perhaps when day 3 starts. We'll have two flips to work with then.

Quote from: Sky_Paladin
I'm gonna go through this game and start fights with all of you. I'm sick of this apathy. I signed up to play and have fun, but I'm just being ignored and laughed at.
Sorry sorry.  I'm a bit surprised that you'd be bothered about being made fun of or ignored though. You've been playing here a while and this place has a pretty negative atmosphere, at least the MAFIA games, so I thought you'd be used to it.

Your comment about Lexicat and Just sharing the same a quick topic because he made a dismissive comment about your personality which happened to be correct is a bit far fetched. You also made a bit of a drama about it, by talking about it beforehand as if it was some dramatic reveal. I had assumed it was going to be an actual role reveal on your part.

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 10, 2014, 10:15:34 AM
Moridin, my preferred pronoun is She. Danke.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 10:34:15 AM
Cut;
Lexicat, I do appreciate what you said and it mollifies me somewhat.  I will *get around* to a response to you, hopefully before night phase, however I feel it's not a priority right now because I need to make a decision about Moridin/Just today. 

TL;DR

This was a humbling exercise whereby I ISO'd Dorian, found he was scummy up until the part where I went to bed, and then found that everything he did after that was plausible.  So I'll write it off as a rough start and when I finally had time to read the big chunk of game that I'd missed...sigh. 

Anyway I wrote all this stuff up so I'll post it here.  I'm not going to follow the order I listed below, I'm going to do Bard/Moridin because tbh I should have done this first and not wasted time rehashing old territory but I was an arrogant prick and thought I was right so of course I was happy to redo it. 

I'm moving Dorian from 'almost certainly scum' to 'possibly scum' along with Prims, Affinity, and Schezo, which is not reflected in the below list.  There's no reason to read it except that I went to all that effort and maybe it'll be useful later. 

***

It seems my previous scum tier listing was misleading so here we go. 

Confirmed Town:
BT

Possibly Scum:
Affinity
Huwhat
Schezo

Probably Scum
Serela
Moridin84
ActionDan

Almost certainly scum
Lexicat
Just
Dorian

***

What's the objective of this:  Get town talking, find motivation on players votes, watch for inconsistencies and liars.  I'll do these in order of player signups as I have time to do it. 

I'm full of righteous fury, let's go. 

I'm just going to go down the player list in order, so first up is Dorian. 

Wait a moment, was the Dan wagon a serious suggestion?

Prims and I both interrogated Dorian rather heavily about what Dorian was up to re: fencesitting on Dan. 
Raikaria will later say 'fencesitting is not scummy' and we know how that went down. 

Mhmm, I'm still against any kind of policy by default, even if this case is tempting, so I'll take my time see what the guy is doing before I reconsider the idea.

You say that you are 'still against', which means you said that you were against a policy lynch some time previously.  I can't see it - can you point it out?  Otherwise, why did you say this? 

Defends a vote on Dan (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125288.html#msg1125288)
"a vote on Dan for being Dan is as useless as a vote for Schezo for having a muscle-shirt-catboy-abomination-avatar, cause the reason is not alignment implicative."

Dan is chronically afk and an excellent player to lynch or vig regardless of any situation because we have to deal with 'is he scum or not' at some point and scum will never kill him.  You defended Dan three times and refused to hammer him later in the day.  Why are you so protective of Dan? 

You are also voting for Schezo at this point (it is RVS).  Why did you criticise your own vote as useless?  The implication is that you knew you were voting against a town player aka you are scum. 

Well, it could be scum trying to establish a votepark wagon or town putting pressure on Dan for the reason you gave, I could see it go both ways right now.
Now my turn, if  policy votes are so serious that you can discuss them, then am I scum for disagreeing with you or not? (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125299.html#msg1125299)

'it could be scum trying to establish a votepark wagon' - why do you say this? 
'town putting pressure on Dan for the reason you gave' - which do you think is more likely? 
'if  policy votes are so serious that you can discuss them, then am I scum for disagreeing with you or not?'
Why would you be scum for simply disagreeing?  Or are you disagreeing because you are scum. 

Response to Prims re: wishy washy (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125314.html#msg1125314)
I'm sorry if I disappoint you but if you think that I can draw a clear conclusion out of your whimsical gambit right now, then you talk with the wrong one.^^;
- It's interesting that you said '...the wrong one' instead of '...the wrong person'.  Is there somebody better you think Prims should have been talking to?  Who?  Why? 
- It's clear that Prims was straight out asking you how you felt about a policy lynch and you supposedly are against it.  Why were you unwilling to clearly underscore your desire to avoid a policy lynch, and instead just wilted away (and then vanished)?  If you feel strongly enough to post three times about it I'm surprised you can't say it clearly at any point. 

Phone post, on my way to work.

##Vote: BT

Tell me, what exactly is it that you find scummy about CF7? Cause I really don't see it.

Why did you single out BT's vote on CF7 and not any of the other votes?  In particular, Raikaria's OMGUS against Schezo? 
It's relevant because:  Raikaria kept saying CF7 and Sky interactions were noteworthy for some reason, and Raikaria loved to defend-a-Dorian.  The implication is that you voted for BT because he criticised your scum buddy, CF7.  So I want to know what your reason for this vote was. 

In this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125573.html#msg1125573) you say:
'@BT: The Dan wagon, as HuhWhat suggested it, was nothing more then prod vote thing and there is a point where just more votes/pressure wouldn't lead to more or better content, that's why I called it useless. But we all know Dan and how he loves to give us nothing, so I was wondering how to keep the pressure without tie my vote on him.
In English, a vote today wouldn't get us much but a vote tomorrow, that could go on forever.'

At the start of the phase, in response to Prims on ActionDan policy, you couldn't give a clear reason.  Now you have a clearer reason.  Why couldn't you say it from the start?  It appears to me that you made up the reason after the fact. 

In this same post:
"I can't help it but you agreed with HuhWhat a bit too eagerly for my liking and your Raikaria vote isn't impressive either. So what's your reason to exchange your prod vote  on Dan for one one Raikaria?"

We know Raikaria flips scum.  At this point you are voting alongside with Raikaria on Schezo and still defending Dan.  Can you explain your mindset at this stage? 

So, after I read Bards wall am I not sure why his actually a wagon. Good, he might be kinda stubborn there, a certain Luther quote comes to mind,  but if that's scummy then I need someone who explains that to me (in preferably simple terms).

'Not sure why' means that you don't understand or don't agree with the case.  Please explain what parts of Prims' case don't make sense to you. 

However, despite all the Dan defending, when Dan townreads Schezo...
Dorian says: (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125867.html#msg1125867)
"Is that so? Is that really all you can say to prove me wrong? Throw me at least a bone if you want me to pick up the fight for you."

And things improve rapidly from here.  I can't pick anything bad until day 2 - Dorian unvotes me and goes back to Schezo once I've changed my ire to Lexicat. 

Siiiiiiiiiiiigh. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 02:24:32 PM
TL;DR
Righteous fury slowly fading into desire to reach through monitor and snap some necks ughghgh

I think Prims is super town.  I agree with his case on Bard. 

Bard has been posting strangely and his vote on Prims at the start of the day was really strange and out of place; if Bard was really scum reading Prims I would have expected him to make some analysis on Prims position in the wagon, actions the previous day etc. 

Prims talked to a lot of people, not just Bard, Schezo, Moridin, BT, even Lexi.  Bard, meanwhile, didn't really engage any players at all.  Which is odd because in That Game, he engaged players as the last surviving scum, but here he is more reserved. 

There is some stuff I'll follow up with Prims re: Lexi next.  I wanna sheep Prims on Bard now because of the situation, and not just because I still have a bet in the Lexi/Rai/Bard table.  I may vote Bard before going to sleep, gotta check Moridin now. 

Reconsidering my town read on Schezo.  I've reread the game a couple of times now and I'm less convinced by his hop off Raikaria and back on at the critical stage. 

***

That this started as an ISO/analysis of Bard but got warped into Prims because !content! is rather telling. 

Prims starts the game suggesting a policy lynch of Dan, and argues with Dorian about it. 
Quote
Dorian why is serious voting on policy so bad you'd rather jokevote, which is comparatively useless? What better option is there to voting Dan? Are Schezo and I questionable for pushing the policy?
  This is a very sensible tone to take. 

Lexi votes Prims because no reason. 

Prims
Dorian, disagreeing with me isn't scummy but your posts have been very wishy-washy, like "why did you post this" wishy-washy. Was hoping your answers would be more transparent; as is though I'm leaning town with weak footing. Basically, work with me here. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125303.html#msg1125303)

Disagreeing is not scummy, being wishy-washy is scummy.  Isn't it more deserving of a vote than Dan? 

The first thing that stands out is that Bard is spending a lot of posts this game talking in a strange chopped up fashion, as if he had some kind of "can't say 'the'" post restriction.  Eg post 1

"Policy lynch or threat on Dan seems like legit reasoning for Scum to mislynch. Vote on Affinity masks empty unvote, why abandon policy proposal already? Suspect LLD may be on to something, Prims is fishy for putting down serious vote asap, regurgitating a lot of words in RVS (trying for brownie points?) and I disagree with his rhetoric on AD seeming Town-minded. Lynch Scum, not slackers (unless slackers are scummy)."

except that in the next line there's a the.  So it's just odd.  Why are you doing this, Bard? 

That said I generally agree with Bard's criticism of Prims at this stage. 

Prims OMGUS (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125329.html#msg1125329) on affinity.  Partially circumvented by querying affinity, "@Affinity: if you're moving your vote off me, can you at least explain why "cyberbullying" alone was enough to make me scum to you in the first place". 

Is what Affinity did (voting Prims for cyberbullying in RVS) really more deserving of a vote than Dorian?  Affinity then revotes Prims for basically this same reason. 

Prims vote for Bard, case is largely meta so hard to analyse :/
Quote
actually wtf bard don't seriously try to push "Prims is suspect for putting down a serious vote ASAP" when your "thing" used to be trying to end RVS immediately. This is easily the most constructed thing I've seen this game, it's already bad for the point to not be alignment-indicative but here you should actively know it isn't.

Prims drops Bard (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125587.html#msg1125587) and goes for ActionDan because Dan won't explain his serious? vote on Raikaria. 
Relevant because Raikaria flips scum.  No follow up on Dorian. 

End day 1.  Bard votes Prims because why.  Enter Lexi. 

I kind of feel that Bard should have gone for Lexi for being awful but didn't do it, especially in a couple of places, e.g "I am fine with a Moridin lynch" and then "No wait Sky or Bard" and then "I totally meant...some other thing."  OK time to stop.  I can't read anymore. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Serela on September 10, 2014, 02:27:54 PM
I'm going to get back from work an hour before deadline? But... okay, I guess I don't have a choice but to take another whack at reading this game. :T I'm just going to skip d1 and move to d2 due to A.Time Constraints and B.At least I actually read d1 even though I interpreted it all wrong...

For starters, based purely off of what I remember from last night and the end-of-d1 votecount I should probably look more at... oh, uh, that would be Bard, who's being lynched... and some of my townreads that weren't related to who flipped what... oh. Maybe I should bump Moridin off being a soft townread because he's new and unpredictable.

Wow the current situation with lynching suddenly makes perfect sense with just a cursory glance at the end-votecount and a vague recollection of d1 >.> OW I just bit my cheek breakfast why do you hurt me so

After reading Moridin's stuff on Prims overnight I peeked back at end-d1 prims and I'm not sure if I should take it as Prims!scum trying hard to find a way to justify voting Dan over Raikaria despite not being able to, or just legit town flail like I initially interpreted it is

Quote
though it'd be weird if all scum were on dan
Prims says this in the last bunch of posts before d1 end, it feels kind of weird like he already knows that Dan is a scum counterwagon? I'm having a hard time legitimately thinking this is bad because I also want to have a town read on Prims and this is kind of a flimsy reason (the kind of thing I tend to have to yell at sky or raikaria for using as their entire case iirc) but I'unno it just feels weird, and I feel like I should take that more seriously because Prims is the person I ALWAYS TOWN READ ALL THE TIME FOREVER

It helps though when I read Prims' case on Bard and agree with it >.> I also agree that the points against sky are good like Prims says in that post (I don't mean I'm sheeping prims as much as remembering to give an opinion on skypal) but at the same time he seems to be obv derp!town which takes precedence in my read, so

Quote
actually yeah I forgot Dorian could've just vanished and locked us into Dan lynch without taking responsibility for it so he gets a pass.
I never actually said it but this is pretty much why I never mentioned Dorian, the lynch page was the one part of the game I'd already read before replacing in and I came to think conclusion as well. Oof, I guess SkyPal's comments on the situation after are half-decent though? Probably an unreliable reason to clear Dorian.

Quote
Plus he sort of claimed, that he can shoot people here.
So... He might be a vig, he might be lying or he actually might be scum.
Did I really replace in for the slot that suggested "Since LLD implied being able to shoot people, she might be scum" ;_;

Bard's defense to the case on him would be okay except for him just kinda going "eh" and sitting on HW after.

I'm starting to go "...where in the world is LLD?" Am I just forgetting the posts she made or has she barely done anything? I say this and then an empty post to vote skypal appears. Okay no now she's making a lot of posts, although her playstyle is... different. Namely that refusing to explain your votes does little to encourage anyone to join the wagon, OR to think you're actually town with legitimate reasons and thought processes... (and you can't just start giving those -after- you're pressured way later in the game, justifying your actions after-the-fact gives little reason to believe that's actually what happened)

Quote from: SkyPaladin
Please note Just and Lex's reaction to "you are in a qt together" was not any form of "it's not true" and in fact neither of them responded either way.
No it's because the accusation was tin-foil hat tier mind boggling (albiet I already explained this to you in more detail), I'm sorry SkyPaladin but no one can take that seriously. :C

Okay I caught up to the current point in the game. People that I feel like I need to read more because they might be scum but I'm not sure yet:Schezo, Affinity, Moridin, Bard, and the first two are really uncertain due to Raikaria wagon placement. And LLD is strongest null read possible and could be easily be cruising scum tier? Time before must-start-getting-ready-for-work:1 hour, during which I still need to eat more and take a shower and other stuff, so, welp.

Yeah, sorry people, I just don't have the time to fully catch up on the situation here :/

I should be back an hour before deadline, so my vote -will- be available when needed, but I don't have any solid enough reads to feel okay with trying to push a new wagon nor contributing to the already-large Bard wagon.

Although, when I just mental-skim over what I remember, I'm probably in agreement with the Bard-lynch.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 10, 2014, 02:59:32 PM
mmmm.  Ok maybe Serela is town after all.

Very much think Prims/Affinity isn't scum

I'd be willing to bet Schezo/Dorian aren't scum.

Don't think LLD is scum.

I don't read Sky walls.  but apparently people think he's town.

That just leaves Bard/Moridin.   

##Vote Moridin
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 04:19:57 PM
I'm like 90% sure Moridin is the scum mislynch as started by Lexicat, who hopped off and started distancing from Bard once his wagon appeared, and now Bard is voting there.  Reasons/case/etc incoming. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 04:21:11 PM
But Sky, you're wrong.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 10, 2014, 04:29:34 PM
I'm still shaking my head. Serela has explained why Sky's idea on Bard/Just quicktopic isn't cool, and I think the latter has lost all credibility. Not the time to go back to early D1 to scan for stuff. 

Well, just to reiterate I'm not for the mioridin over the Bard wagon.  I think he's trying his best, and that the votes against him are emptier than what his playerslot warrants, for reasons I cite here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126478.html#msg1126478).   Would even prefer going for Schezo over him  It's also late but I now think of Sky as insane town, I guess.  Bard's still urgh.

===

@Sky:  I wish you could summarize what you think on Bard/mioridin now, in three short paragraphs or less, and explain why you would pick Bard over miordin (without recourse to your QT conspiracy theory) since those are the two viable lynches for today it seems.  Leave the forays into the past till tomorrow, else you'd be nothing but an exasperating distraction.  Please.  Do as the Romans do and stuff like that.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 04:41:09 PM
Let's talk about Lexi. 

People are town clearing her because of her placement on the Raikaria wagon, but somebody (Prims?) also said she was a selfish player, so it's quite possible she threw her buddy under a bus, and Raikaria went after her in an attempt to counterbus.  But if I really want this to make sense, then the interactions between Raikaria/Bard/Lexi should make sense. 

So let's go through and see. 

This player has not posted anything since Day 1 begun. Why do you say this?

This is the only time in the entire game that Lexi has asked anybody why they are voting for somebody, and it happens to be on a confirmed scum. 

Yeah I've seen nothing to convince me that I should be voting anyone but Prims right now.

On the other hand, I did see something I want to follow up on, but I wanna see how it evolves first.

At this stage, Prims was voting Bard.  The implication is that she is countervoting Prims for voting her scumbuddy. 

Lexicat doesn't post again until the Raikaria wagon is at L-3, and she doesn't explain why she suddenly stopped scumreading Prims and now scumreads Raikari.  This is the perfect time for scum to get on their buddies wagon, and it's also at this stage that Raikaria suddenly comes out swinging against Lexicat.  This is, as Lexi aptly pointed out recently, distancing.  Players are townclearing Lexi because of her spot on the wagon but I don't get it.  The people who should be towncleared are the ones at the front, the ones who made the case, or at the very least, the ones who made some kind of indication they were going to vote there before hand.  The ones we should suspect of bussing their scumbuddies are the ones near the end of the lynch, the scums that decided they had to betray their partner to buy town cred, or at the very least, to avoid being on the same wagon as their other scumbuddy - Bard. 

This explains why Bard was willing to vote for ActionDan and 'forgot about' Lexicat. 

She then begs and pushes players to vote for Raikaria, giving him up for dead. 
If you hammer Dan, I'm putting a bullet between your eyes tonight. How about that for an incentive?

Now on day 2, let's have a look at what Lexicat did. 

She started off the day by quoting a chunk of Moridin's stuff and voted for him (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126208.html#msg1126208), again without reason. 

However, when I questioned her about why she was voting Moridin, she broadened her choices. 
I'm down to lynch Moridin or Sky Palladin today. Not interested in a cf7 or Bard lynch.

It's clear I'm in this list because I started asking her questions.  Why is she not interested in a CF7 or Bard lynch?  It's a mystery.  Lexi made no mention of CF7 before now, and CF7 mysteriously disappears in her next read.  Well, we already know why she isn't interested in a Bard lynch, because they are scumbuddies OH WAIT...

I changed my mind, I'm happy to lynch Bard or Sky today.

I believe CF7 was added because scumbuddy Raikaria kept trying to make something out of a CF7/Sky kerfuffle on day 1 that was non-existent.  Also, now she wants a Bard lynch, again without reasons or precedent.  We already strongly suspect the explanation is: She is distancing from her scumbuddy in the same way that she distanced from Raikaria before voting him to L-2.  Which neatly brings us to...

Hey Sky, if I'm scum, tell me why I would bus Rakaria (at 5 votes) over hammering Dan at 6 votes at the deadline or just not posting at all?

I'm now in a better position to answer this question.  The reason you would bus Raikaria at 5 votes is because scum knew they couldn't pile all their votes on the mislynch of ActionDan.  That explains why Bard voted for Dan and you voted for Raikaria at this late stage of the phase.  You left your vote til reasonably late because there was still a good chance that Dan would get mislynched, and your scum buddy would be saved.  You have also been described as a selfish player by Prims, and your conduct in this game supports this, so I would also presume there was a good part of you that thought this would be a good chance to get a free pass to LYLO at the expense of Raikaria.  After all, town will never lynch you while ActionDan is around, right? 

The distancing of Lexicat from Bard now escalates. 
You are flailing really really hard right now.

People who are interested in lynching Bard. I will lynch Bard tomorrow if we lynch Paladin today.

And then this thing. 
Would you perchance happen to be a programmer with a hard on for overly analytical thinking and large useless quote walls?

I mean, what is the point of this post except to discourage conversation and analysis?  How are we supposed to interpret this as anything other than 'stop asking me questions'.  I can't see the benefit of a town player saying this kind of statement. 

A little later on, Lexicat continues. 
On the other hand I still have no reason to explain what I'm thinking.

Prims, you're gonna have to sell me on Bard today.

Uh huh...

the reactions weren't about Sky, prims. they were about someone else.

I can actually buy that Bard case, let me reread some shit.

No this is bullshit.  You decided at the start of the day to vote Moridin for no reason.  Then you decided to vote me because I questioned your vote.  Then you decided that you definitely didn't want to lynch Bard or (inexplicably) CF7 but Sky or Moridin was okay.  Then, somewhere in the midst of our conversation, you decided that Sky was the best bet (as evidenced by your 'lynch Sky today and I'll vote Bard tomorrow'), and then a few minutes later...

Anyway, you're town. Annoyingly bad, but town.

Vote: Just

I figure this is what I need to do today, but I'm a little nervous about Moridin/Affinity.

OK no, no.  This is scum getting on the wagon to hammer their buddy. 

***

I'm OK with a Bard lynch because I'm certain Lexicat is his buddy.  I'm not gonna vote Bard right now because he'll just self hammer. 

And all you people who think I'm insane because of my 'well they share a quicktopic' dealio, please review this post and have a second think. 

Do I really need to?  I guess so. 

In the whole game, Lexicat only ever questioned ActionDan about his vote for Raikaria and nobody else ever.  Come on. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 04:47:09 PM
FYI If you fine folks want to lynch Lexi instead of Bard, I'm okay with that too. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Schezo on September 10, 2014, 04:55:08 PM
Actually, sky do me this big huge favor and sheep my Moridin votes and sheep it's case and I'll do something cool.
No but seriously
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 10, 2014, 04:57:41 PM
Sky I'm gonna ignore you until you start listening to other people.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 05:05:01 PM
So I'm scummy because you think LSD is Scum? That logic strikes me as terrible.

All ravens are black birds.
This is a black bird.
Therefore, this is a raven.

The observation I made during Medaka Box neglected to mention how you also have a fondness for logical fallacies.

Variable B = Bard's alignment
Variable L = LSD's alignment
You know neither L nor B. Yet your case is the hypothesis: Value L = Scum.
Without proving nor validating that hypothesis, you conclude: Value B = equal to value L.
In other words, you're arbitrarily treating a hypothesis as fact without testing it (and your hypothesis is picked arbitrarily because ~NO ONE COULD HAVE GUESSED SKY PALADIN HAS A HARD-ON FOR LOGIC EXCEPT BARDICHE~), and then you use that fact to assume something else entirely. It's like solving c + d = 10 by arbitrarily deciding 'd = 4', so therefore 'c = 6'.

What happens if LSD flips Town? What if it turns out that 'd = 2'?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 05:05:40 PM
Affinity
Quote
Sky I'm gonna ignore you until you start listening to other people.

That's just silly!  If you are ignoring me, how will you know if I'm listening to other people? 

Quote
Not the time to go back to early D1 to scan for stuff. 

When is the time to go back to early D1 stuff, chum?  Why should we look at an incomplete picture?

Quote
@Sky:  I wish you could summarize what you think on Bard/mioridin now, in three short paragraphs or less, and explain why you would pick Bard over miordin (without recourse to your QT conspiracy theory) since those are the two viable lynches for today it seems.  Leave the forays into the past till tomorrow, else you'd be nothing but an exasperating distraction.  Please.  Do as the Romans do and stuff like that.

Bard - scum. Moridin - not scum.
Scum team of Raikaria/Lexi/Bard satisfies all interactions, see my case at the bottom of page 17 that you ignored. 

Main point:

In the whole game, Lexicat only ever questioned ActionDan about his vote for Raikaria and nobody else ever.  Come on. 

***

The Romans did as the Romans do and now they're all dead.  So I'm just gonna...do my own thing. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 05:07:28 PM
Bard
Quote
So I'm scummy because you think LSD is Scum? That logic strikes me as terrible.

Why are you spending precious time engaging on cases against other players when you're the one about to be lynched? 

The world wonders. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 05:10:39 PM
In case it's not clear -

Why is Bard arguing to defend Lex, or really do anything against a case on some other person, when there are plenty of other people that are actually voting him he should be talking to? 

Or scumhunting?  I don't know.  I don't really think this is an appeal to authority, I'm just saying, if you were a town at L-1, what would you do?  Argue against a case that most people say is crazy anyway? 

I mean you are saying that Lexi is important to you because you are not scum buddies so I don't get why you are doing this.  Except for 'somebody on the Internet is WRONG' perhaps. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 05:11:05 PM
Basically what I'm saying is, your logic is sound only if you assume that:
a) Bard is the only Mafia player who could have observed SkyPal has a hard-on for logic
b) The only way LSD could know this trait of SkyPal is by being in a QT with Bard
c) Both refuse to confirm or deny they share a QT because they 'know' SkyPal has something in the case that they do
d) Only Scum share a QT in this game
are all true, and there are no (likely) alternatives.

Like, I don't mind being mislynched when people have good reasons, but your logic is not one of them. It's so incredibly frustrating when people use such backwater Cirno-level argumentation to get to a conclusion. It's like you solved a + b = c by deciding c = 10 and then filling in the rest. Even if c ends up being 10, what pride can you have for getting the right answer in the completely wrong method? As a teacher, I should hope you fundamentally praise using the right methods instead of randomly guessing and hoping you get the right answer somehow.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 05:14:02 PM
Sky Pal, I am arguing against you because I have talked to all the other people already voting me and their hearts and ways are set. I think Moridin is Scummy, and while I could lie through my teeth about Schezo, I just don't think it's very likely that Schezo would slam Raikaria from the start and bus him harder than you fail at logic.

I am arguing against you because "Lexi = Scum" is your case to vote me. When you vote me because someone else is Scummy, then I must attack your logic and try to make you realise how absurd you're being. How would YOU feel if Town lynched you because Affinity is scummy?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 05:15:22 PM
It'd be a different thing entirely if you wanted to lynch LSD, but the fact of the situation is, you're saying you want to vote and lynch me because of your case on LSD. "The King is corrupt, so let's execute the Queen."
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 05:18:33 PM
Quote
FYI If you fine folks want to lynch Lexi instead of Bard, I'm okay with that too. 

My vote is on Lexi by the way. 

Quote
How would YOU feel if Town lynched you because Affinity is scummy?

Well, for a start, I'd be voting Affinity.  If you think Lexi is scummy, why aren't you voting her?  Isn't the best way to save yourself a lynch on Lexi showing her as town? 

I'm happy to discuss the maths stuff with you but I think people will think I'm trolling you and it's not helpful to have that kind of discussion in the thread. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 05:29:49 PM
My vote is on Lexi by the way. 

Quote
I'm OK with a Bard lynch because I'm certain Lexicat is his buddy.  I'm not gonna vote Bard right now because he'll just self hammer. 

The only reason you're not voting me for your LSD case is that you worry I'll self-hammer. That's enough reason to argue you intend to lynch me over your LSD case.
You get slammed for this nearly every game you play and yet you persist. I just don't know anymore. Every time you mislynch in LYLO people rush to give you advice and you always ignore it.

Affinity, after you lynch me I flip Town. Where would you vote and why? What other cases have you considered beside mine? One of your points against me was that I "did not consider anyone else", but who do you consider besides me?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 05:42:25 PM
I'm going to bed. I'll set my alarm for a little before the end if I need to hammer.   

TL;DR
Town motivation at a high vote count is to find scum/defend self, Bard's actual behavior is to defend another supposedly unrelated player.  Appears to be scum motivation. 

Lexi likely scumbuddies with Bard, interactions easily explainable and make sense, see here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126916.html#msg1126916) for not-QT-conspiracy case. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 10, 2014, 05:45:09 PM
Hey baby, How's it going?

Just: (4) Prims, Affinity, Moridin84, Lexicat
Moridin: (3)  Schezo, Just, ActionDan
Schezo: (1) Dorian
Lexicat: (1) Sky_Paladin

Not voting: Serela

6 votes needed for majority
You have 6 Hours and fifteen minutes (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 10, 2014, 05:52:35 PM
Quote
That's just silly!  If you are ignoring me, how will you know if I'm listening to other people?

When people other than yourself acknowledge it and vouch for you of course.  Do your stuff the next day and try again.

Man okay it starts now.  Am done.  Will stay my frustration till post-game. 

===

Bard, I would vote Schezo for the reasons described here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126478.html#msg1126478).  You could say it's a bit of a passive read, like a rock that's just there, but Schezo is being so intentionally hazy questioning doesn't seem to matter.   I've also thought about miordin and thought him town and Sky I guess. Dorian is one I've not thought about and stuff and I'll think about him the next day.

You've shown that you're able to grab bulls by their horns; you've wrestled with Sky and asked some questions.  Why only do it now, in a defensive capacity and not earlier against who you think are the scums?  If you are town, why are you the matador that comes in late and dies anyway?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 06:06:04 PM
Addendum to Bard case - he hasn't claimed while at practically L-1 and such little time left. Where is the town motivation to clear your name :C
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Affinity on September 10, 2014, 06:08:48 PM
I will be back around 1.5 hours before the deadline.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 07:11:13 PM
Addendum to Bard case - he hasn't claimed while at practically L-1 and such little time left. Where is the town motivation to clear your name :C

I don't have any, I'm ITP. :V
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 10, 2014, 07:34:39 PM
If that's supposed to be a joke then it's certainly not funny.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 10, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
I caught up with the game and was about to ask Affinity about the similarities of his bard case and my former Sky case. Cause Bards apathetic presents seems to be enough to rule out every other lynch options for to day, that isn't the newbie. But it seems that the guy decided that rather get himself lynched.

Why am I even trying?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 10, 2014, 09:37:24 PM
No Change in voting.
You have 2 hours 22 minutes and 22 seconds remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 10:08:35 PM
Ok I am good with this now.
##unvote
##vote Just
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 10, 2014, 10:11:57 PM
Just is at L-1
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 10:16:56 PM
##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri


Did you think I was going to self-hammer? Surprise, I'm voting the mod!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 10:18:22 PM
When I'm night killed, please go back and read my non-conspiracy-qt case on Lexi and decide for yourselves.  Bard spent his last few posts trying to defend her instead of saving himself.

But Lexi is plenty scummy in her own right anyway.

Cut
Oh Just, we love ya :)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 10:25:03 PM
That's not how this game works, Sky Paladin. Scum keeps you alive to win LYLO. Like, Sky Paladin, Serela and Scum in LYLO with one legit Townie is like a free victory.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 10, 2014, 10:26:10 PM
For the record and the sake of my sanity will I assume that he's just trolling. He said too often that he would claim ITP as scum to really think that he could get away with it.

His early HuhWhat case doesn't strikes me as scummy for three reasons. First, I think that HWs suggestion of a policy wagon were really just something that pissed him off. Second, HW isn't actually a easy mislynch and even if scum Bard would be ambitious to go for him would he at least tame it down to make it less controversial. Which leads to my final point, it blow up too much dust which scum always tries to avoid.
So what was the scum intent behind that again? Cause all I see would be suicide.

He is really just trolling.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 10:26:32 PM
(I mean this one (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126916.html#msg1126916))

In the whole game, Lexicat only ever questioned ActionDan about his vote for Raikaria and nobody else ever. 

***

Quote
That's not how this game works, Sky Paladin. Scum keeps you alive to win LYLO.

Yeah, I know T___T
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 10, 2014, 10:28:29 PM
You know, there was a reason outside of voting Rakaria I questioned him about that.

I understand if you can't expand your mind to see past the face of an action, but at least try!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 10:33:38 PM
Quote
You know, there was a reason outside of voting Rakaria I questioned him about that.

Your actions so far this game suggest otherwise and your refusal to clarify leaves us in the dark about it. 

In any case, why would you clarify it to us now, after the fact, when it's alignment indicative? 

However if you want to go through and explain your votes and reasoning behind them now, I won't stop you.  I'd be very happy if you did that, actually. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 10:37:24 PM
If you know, isn't that a good reason to actually, you know... Try to improve your gameplay and listen to people when they point out you're arriving at the right conclusion merely by coincidence? Even if LSD were my scumbuddy I wouldn't tell her that you've a hard-on for logic, because it's not true.

You hate logic. You have a hard-on for logical fallacies.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 10:39:51 PM
Dorian, really?

Quote
He said too often that he would claim ITP as scum to really think that he could get away with it.

He is not trying 'to get away with it'.

His actions this phase do not reflect somebody who was trying to get away with it.  Instead he barely argued with anybody about the votes on him and spent the last third of the phase arguing if Lexi was scum or not.  When I pointed this out he immediately started questioning Affinity who was on his wagon and then gave up. 

Like I'd love it if some of the other players that apparently signed up to play could post.  Maybe I'm going crazy because I'm talking to myself, ne?

Quote
Try to improve your gameplay and listen to people when they point out you're arriving at the right conclusion merely by coincidence?

..........................................
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 10, 2014, 10:40:05 PM
Bard is a meanie :V
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 10:44:43 PM
Quote
Maybe I'm going crazy because I'm talking to myself, ne?

"Going crazy" implies you aren't crazy yet, but you are regrettably quite insane. Even if LSD and I were Scum, you basically reasoned I was Scum based on LSD's actions instead of my own, which is arriving at a right conclusion by use of wrong reasoning and arguments. Like concluding a raven is a raven because all ravens are black birds, and this bird is black; for all intents and purposes, it could've been a vulture.

Quote
Bard is a meanie :V

When I call you LSD it's affectionately, though Sky Paladin makes me feel it's a misnomer and you're actually perfectly sane and not crazy.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 10, 2014, 10:45:28 PM
is there a claim a coming?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 10, 2014, 10:46:23 PM
Geez Sky, first you saw Lucy as scum cause Raikaria attacked her and now you see her as scum cause Bard defended her, before we got his flip. It's both wine and it both attract attention.
More intent to suicide?

Yes, Sky really! I know that the concluding comes too late but work was hell this week and I was to busy reading the walls of a certain someone to think much about it.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: ActionDan on September 10, 2014, 10:47:38 PM
oh

##Vote: Bard

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Lexicat on September 10, 2014, 10:49:04 PM
"Going crazy" implies you aren't crazy yet, but you are regrettably quite insane. Even if LSD and I were Scum, you basically reasoned I was Scum based on LSD's actions instead of my own, which is arriving at a right conclusion by use of wrong reasoning and arguments. Like concluding a raven is a raven because all ravens are black birds, and this bird is black; for all intents and purposes, it could've been a vulture.

When I call you LSD it's affectionately, though Sky Paladin makes me feel it's a misnomer and you're actually perfectly sane and not crazy.

<3
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Dorian White on September 10, 2014, 10:50:19 PM
And there you have it.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 10:50:40 PM
So I'll flip Town in a few moments. Probably an hour or less. Who's Scum and why?

Schezo is unlikely Scum due to the way he handled Raikaria. If you think Schezo's Scum, you need to explain his Raikaria business as extreme bussing. Why is it extreme bussing?
ActionDan is likely Scum due to his way of approaching D1 and D2. He deigned not to do anything Day 1 until brought afore the hymnal altar, and Day 2 has opted to stay on the sidelines. That's a very comfortable position to be.
Huh Whatty is unlikely Scum due to constantly begging for my Lynch, which is too high profile for a Scum mislyncher to do. It's bringing too much attention to himself, and in this respect, Scum gambits cannot apply.
LSD could only be Scum if you argue her terseness is to mask Scum intent, but she isn't Scum by virtue of that. It's a playstyle argument, though one cannot help but secretly admire LSD managing to shoo people off from putting her in the spotlight.
Moridin is likely Scum because he has virtually no reasons for his votes anywhere and is floundering around like a Sky Paladin without logical fallacies.
Sky Paladin is a confusion case because I can see a Scum Paladin also using the same whackjob reasons to justify a mislynch.
Dorian is adorable and I can't read him.
Affinity is likely Scum due to refusal to look beyond his preferred lynch and spending much effort just flopping around going "man why aren't you voting bard", instead of pressing people to explain their reasoning and countering that for his preferred lynch. All he does is repeat the same arguments over and over any time he posts, like a record. A bad one. Not Led Zeppelin. Probably something shitty.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 10:50:49 PM
Cut, so flipping sooner than that. :V
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 10:54:20 PM
Out of all of that, I'd counsel Sky Paladin to review his logic for saying why someone is Scum and determine whether his conjecture has a place here. It's quite easy to assess what sort of person you are, Sky Paladin; I'm not some prodigal psychologist whose keen eye can discern your love of (what you claim to be) logic. I'm only being mean because you frustrate.

Dorian should not use meta arguments so much, they're unbecoming. If you want your lynch out instead of what a bunch of loud nobodies want, you need to assert yourself more strongly. Catching Scum is an art, an art designed to woo ladies. You cannot woo any lady by being a nobody.

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 10:54:46 PM
Also, the rules permit discussion of game even after hammer falls, so feel free to ask any last questions.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 10, 2014, 11:01:47 PM
I didn't realise we could chat at twilight!  How wonderful.

Well seeing that this might be game end, I'll clarify. 

You can't understand where I'm coming from because you think I'm a programmer with a hard on for logic.  I'm not.  I'm an engineer with a hard on for maths and science.  You are certainly familiar with the scientific method, which basically goes:

Make a guess -> make a test -> check the result -> analyse it -> start again with a better guess. 

I didn't know that you and Lexi were in a QT together, I merely suspected it.  I hate gambitting though so I just floated out a suspicion to test your reactions.  None of you rejected it (you called it dumb) so I guessed one or both of you were actually in a qt and were afraid that I had worked it out because of an ability.  The big giveaway was that neither of you asked why I believed this which any town player would have done as their first response. 
So I put more weight on this and watched for further reactions from other people, not just yourselves.  EG Affinity/Moridin/Serela made themselves suspicious because of their poor reactions to a town player bothering to look for the third scum.  Then I went and tested the hypothesis (the three of you were scum) against the real world situation by running through the game thread with the guess that the three of you were scum, and it looked like a match.  So I figured the hypothesis was correct. 

*shrug*   What would you have done?

Also I agree with your scum assessments.  I really did want to go JUSTICE POWER on most of the players in this game. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 10, 2014, 11:02:31 PM
Your level of hype is ...
...a baseball tournament!

Just: (6) Prims, Affinity, Moridin84, Lexicat, Sky_Paladin, ActionDan Lynched
Moridin: (1)  Schezo,
Schezo: (1) Dorian

Not voting: Serela, Just

Just was lynched
He was Mandrill, a member of the mafia.
he had no special powers.

You have until tomorrow, 7:00 p.m. EST or specifically 24 hours to send in all night actions you may have.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Two)
Post by: Bardiche on September 10, 2014, 11:05:23 PM
I'll save the comment I had written up to the post-game. :V
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night two)
Post by: Moridin on September 11, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
Two for two. Mafia sure is easy.

With twelve people altogether, we can probably assume three MAFIA players in total right? So if can only lose if we manage to mislynch.. five times? Statistically speaking, this is unlikely so I think the best course of action is to put everyone's name in randomizer and lynch them in that order.

Therefore, people should be lynched in the following order:
- Sky_Paladin
- Dorian
- Serela
- Schezo
- ActionDan
- Huhwhat
- Lexicat
- Affinity
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night two)
Post by: Moridin on September 11, 2014, 03:48:41 PM
That was a joke.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night two)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 11, 2014, 11:18:24 PM
Prims is dead, Jims. I mean Jim.
He was The Leader of the Cheer Reader
Outside of rhyming prowess, He had no special powers.

With 8 Alive, it takes 5 votes to reach Majority
You have 72 Hours left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140914T1815&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+3)
(Phase change was withheld by fifteen minutes due to a poorly timed nap reasons.)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: ActionDan on September 11, 2014, 11:22:21 PM
So.

Wat to do now.

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 11, 2014, 11:30:03 PM
Moridin, can you please explain why you did worse-than-nothing with your night talk ability?

Schezo, are you counter claiming Moridin or not?  I'm not just gonna vote him because 'something cool will happen'.  I might vote him because he appears inherently scummy on his own, though. 

My heart is set on a Lexi lynch because I think she's totes scum and if we happen to mislynch, it may as well be on somebody who is hostile and anti-town, so likely scum.  I also don't discount the chance that Bard was defending Lexi to help get a mislynch on her when he flipped, but seeing as Lexi implied she was scum with Bard with her posts, I think that's unikely. 

However, I never got around to properly reading Moridin/Schezo so I'll do that next. 

CF7/Serela's slot rapidly diminishing in my opinion because Serela's net contribution on day 2 was nil.  However I feel like I could say the same about several others.  Frustration. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 11, 2014, 11:30:56 PM
Prims died and no one was surprised at all. (If he made it another night past this without dying I would have tried to policy lynch him)

Anyway I read overnight for once (shock!) since I still wasn't exactly done when the day had ended. Let's see, starting with Schezo.

Schezo defended bard d1 but went after raikaria pretty hard all day. There was the momentary switch to dan I guess and he didn't do a whole lot d2? Not really little enough for it to be explicitly bad but, :T. Yeah, Schezo's like, okay sure I'd be okay with him getting lynched I guess, but I could take it or leave it.

I wanted to start the day voting Moridin until he said "That was a joke", on the basis that I couldn't comprehend an actual townie possibly thinking that no matter how mafia illiterate they were, but that maybe scum!Moridin panicking with all his buddies dead and people liable to lynch him soon...? Yeah it was a little strawgrabby, admittedly. The only reason I'd still be okay with lynching Moridin is honestly just the power of PoE.

The only other people I'd really consider lynching (without something notable occurring like a good case I hadn't thought of) are Affinity or LLD and my Affinity suspicion is pretty meh and LLD is... uhm... herself, and I don't really know what to do with that or how to even touch that, so I guess she's doing something right even though honestly it doesn't look to me like she's really done much of anything at all worth caring about. :S?

I realize this is a pretty uninspiring set of scum suspects but you gotta admit yesterday was just Bard Dies Day and some people going "hey wanna lynch moridin/schezo? please? with a cherry on top?"

cut by sky reading later


Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 11, 2014, 11:32:11 PM
I could explain why everyone else is town but I don't think anyone really cares
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 11, 2014, 11:33:13 PM
Quote
CF7/Serela's slot rapidly diminishing in my opinion because Serela's net contribution on day 2 was nil.
I clearly spent all the time I had available trying to catch up on the game, so. :T
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Schezo on September 11, 2014, 11:33:32 PM
you didn't do it yet so no you fuck
It's really going to kill you to vote 1/5 on the wagon?  serious.

anyways I'll finish this later.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 11, 2014, 11:34:28 PM
I'll vote moridin if something cool will happen sure

##vote Moridin
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Schezo on September 11, 2014, 11:35:39 PM
you have to say you sheep the case too.

Though I have to set it all up and can't be fucked right now later whatever I don't even want moridin right now anyways.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 11, 2014, 11:38:51 PM
What are you going to do, lie detect me? Please don't cop me, either. :C I'm Serela. Cop SkyPaladin instead. Not that I know if you're actually a cop please don't answer that.

Actually no don't cop SkyPal, my reason for SUPER TOWN CLEARING him is that after that LLD/Bard team fiasco yesterday, there is like no way in hell SkyPal is scum with Bard.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 11, 2014, 11:41:30 PM
(And then dan was the d1 scum counterwagon and that only leaves dorian who is also town so yeah, everyone left was on my "I guess they're my scum suspects" list)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 12, 2014, 12:06:48 AM
Schezo
Quote
I don't even want moridin right now anyways.

Who DO you want and why?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 12, 2014, 12:12:28 AM
GO TOWN

NEVER GIVE-U UP-UUUUUU
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Schezo on September 12, 2014, 12:21:22 AM
Though I have to set it all up and can't be fucked right now later whatever I don't even want moridin right now anyways.
Reading comprehension my strong suit.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 12, 2014, 12:21:49 AM
I think Schezo is the last scum for reasons I described here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126478.html#msg1126478) and what huhwhat described here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126212.html#msg1126212).  To add on to these, he pretty much sat on the mioridin wagon yesterday without considering the reasons for voting Bardiche.  For these, I think he's a good candidate for scum.  Can everyone weigh in their opinions on this lynch?

##Vote: Schezo

On the other hand, I would discourage going for mioridin because he was the counterwagon to flipped scum yesterday.  I don't think double scum wagons on D2 likely.  Reasons I think mioridin was town yesterday are here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126478.html#msg1126478), though I acknowledge they are rather subjective.  I will try and view the votecounts again.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 12, 2014, 12:23:14 AM
Also Sky I'm sorry if I was brash yesterday and stuff.  I'll reread your cases and LLD and think about them.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 12:27:31 AM
Reading comprehension my strong suit.
choking on my water

Affinity:Ignoring the bard lynch is a good point, although trying to call Moridin the scum counterwagon when he had... like... one vote... is a little silly

Did he ever even reach 3 votes at any point of the day?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 12:29:34 AM
reviewing the schezo evidence it's more compelling than I initially interpreted it as

##unvote ##Vote moridin
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 12:30:46 AM
##unvote ##Vote Schezo

...just don't comment on that `-`

And yes I'm jumping off Moridin just like that, because it was part "PoE" part "I don't feel strongly for my other scumspects either" and "Schezo said something cool would happen".
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 12, 2014, 12:47:19 AM
Quote
Also Sky I'm sorry if I was brash yesterday and stuff.

We're cool.  I was deliberately being ascerb...whatever that word is...because I was trying to get town to get off their collective asses and look for a third hypothetical scum.  It backfired because now everybody thinks I'm crazy and I see everyone as scum lol. 

I'm pretty unhappy with Schezo dancing around if he is counterclaiming Moridin or not all game and will be re-reading. 

I could also see scum Serela because what the hell are you doing, player. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 12:50:31 AM
You won't see scum Serela if I have anything to do about it!

...do I have anything to do about it i'unno
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 12, 2014, 01:09:54 AM
? And how he was trolling me. -_-

However, lets see how the latest events affect my favorite suspect.

Bard/Schezo interaction is kinda lacking, I haven't found anything from day one at all, which  strikes me as odd. Why did he blow up so much dust condemn the policy wagon but ignored the first one who agreed with it?
Day two is the same ?but he was voting Raikaria all day? that I heard from everyone who isn't HW or Affinity, so that's more going with the flow.

Huh What made it quite clear that he the Schezo was next one his list but he was too town to not get killed anyway.

All in all, nothing that changes my mind.

##Vote: Schezo

On a side note, under other circumstances would I be concerned about a quick lynch but I'm waiting for this since day one and there are cases where even my patience runs thin.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 12, 2014, 01:25:28 AM
Rah-Rah Sis-Boom-bah BOOM!

Schezo: (3) Affinity, Serela, Dorian [L-2]

Not voting: ActionDan, Moridin84, Schezo, Lexicat, Sky_paladin
5 votes needed to Lynch
70 Hours Left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140914T1815&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+3)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 01:27:29 AM
Is anyone in objection to a Schezo lynch? If we all get our opinions out in a timely manner we could end the day quickly and not even feel like we made a rushed decision!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: ActionDan on September 12, 2014, 01:29:45 AM
um.  Surely there must be a better choice.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 01:44:20 AM
ActionDan if you're in objection you need to suggest lynching someone else and provide why they are a better lynch you know the drill >:c You can't just complain about it
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Schezo on September 12, 2014, 02:01:56 AM
"yeah yeah yeah!"
*clap clap clap clap*

Sure.  I said you were town. You thi k raikaria needs ti die. We will call it sheeping. Instead of the looked down upon art of survival.
errrrrr

Vote: Rakaria

Incase mod doesn't like fixing tags.
I'll vote moridin if something cool will happen sure

##vote Moridin

oh, and screw you.  "let's quicklynch"  always the town minded thing to do
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 02:04:49 AM
It's not the town minded thing to do it's the serela minded thing to do, this is nothing new, I've been planning it in my scum qt all day don't ruin my party </3

It's because I didn't say moridin84 isn't it? I had thought about doing it. It would have rained on your parade wouldn't it. :C
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 12, 2014, 02:05:49 AM
"yeah yeah yeah!"
*clap clap clap clap*

(http://i.imgur.com/KA8z0Zo.jpg)
Schezo is undergoing a radical change!

...

...

...

...

(http://i.imgur.com/IjUrQP7.jpg)
An INCREDIBLY RADICAL change!

Schezo has been promoted from Regular Monkey to Radical Monkey!
The votecount has not been reset. Please keep this in mind when posting.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Lexicat on September 12, 2014, 02:25:16 AM
wat
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 02:34:25 AM
I have a feeling this isn't a flavor-switched repeat of Sailor Moon the Kyuubey victim?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 12, 2014, 03:34:14 AM
chimp looks like its in a mafia getup and stuff
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 12, 2014, 03:36:40 AM
Quote
Hey baby, How's it going?

Just: (4) Prims, Affinity, Moridin84, Lexicat
Moridin: (3)  Schezo, Just, ActionDan
Schezo: (1) Dorian
Lexicat: (1) Sky_Paladin

Not voting: Serela

6 votes needed for majority
You have 6 Hours and fifteen minutes

at one point the moridin wagon was pretty substantial Serela! 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 12, 2014, 03:36:53 AM
Please say no to quicklynches on day 3 when we have two flipped scum and plenty of interactions to go back on and read. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 03:54:01 AM
SkyPal Schezo's interactions with Bard all support that they're scumbuddies. Well. The ones Schezo did at least. I haven't reread Bard as thoroughly.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 03:57:18 AM
Meanwhile Moridin was arguably Bard's counterwagon, your interactions with Bard heavily suggest you're town, Affinity is a bussing maniac if he's scum (plausible, but I'd -definitely- lynch Schezo first), Dan was also a counterwagon to scum which makes it unlikely he's scum himself, and that only leaves LLD.

It's not like I haven't reviewed the information available here before coming to the conclusion we should lynch Schezo.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Schezo on September 12, 2014, 04:17:08 AM
lmao this role.  Oh well take me away boys. I got my scum.

I don't do anything with that.  serves me right for forcing you to say you sheeped me. 
um let's see.  Affinity scum final answer gg if not cf7s slot.  3 bus 5 me.
##Vote: Affinity
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: ActionDan on September 12, 2014, 04:27:17 AM
also possibility of SK - 2 goon setup.  those happen
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 12, 2014, 04:30:14 AM
Schezo, you're not making any sense.  Can you please explain why Affinity is scum?  Because it looks like you're only voting him because he voted you. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 12, 2014, 05:24:10 AM
yeah man convince us at the very least.  what made moridin look better all of a sudden when he was your only lynch candidate for D2? 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 12, 2014, 05:39:23 AM
I'll review Schezo/Moridin/any other case people bring to the front and decide which one looks best.  For quotes and links, please see my second case, here. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126916.html#msg1126916)

I have zero time right now and assuming you guys don't quickhammer before I get back I'll re-present my Lexi case in an easier to read form plus updated for the end of day 2.  But seriously, just read from page 17 onwards and there's enough there imo. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Schezo on September 12, 2014, 05:41:46 AM
affinity bussed bard.  nice meta case
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Moridin on September 12, 2014, 08:37:18 AM
Moridin, can you please explain why you did worse-than-nothing with your night talk ability?
I was going to say something along of the lines of "The last MAFIA player is probably Schezo or Dorion, but really, just vote for whoever Affinity & Primms thinks are MAFIA". However, I figured people would probably just get mad at me for that :p

People have been saying that my playstyle isn't very effective, and it's quite tiring so I'm thinking of switching back to my playstyle of the previous game. Which is to coast along, make the occasional comment, and vote for whoever is the MAFIA-est.

Quote from: Schezo
lmao this role.  Oh well take me away boys. I got my scum.

I don't do anything with that.  serves me right for forcing you to say you sheeped me. 
um let's see.  Affinity scum final answer gg if not cf7s slot.  3 bus 5 me.
##Vote: Affinity
lol

Not going to vote for Schezo right now. Probably no reason to quick lynch him right?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 12, 2014, 10:00:41 AM
Well, I think it's a bit too early for the ?cosmic force? to command all of us to get paranoid about Affinity yet. At least since the guy has a good chance to be the next NK target but if I'm right then it wouldn't come to that.
I also think that interaction isn't clear in that direction. Even when Affinity bused both of his buddies, do you think the two would go down without any real objection?

But there is another thing why I don't see Affinity as scum. If he didn't stepped in to mediate then Sky and I would be still mostly busy with fighting  each other. Where is the benefit for scum Affinity to mediate in a town vs town fight? Why doing that when it would be much easier and profitable for him to play both ends against the middle?


@Moridin: Oh please, don't do that. Why do you even think a method that didn't worked for you as SK would work for you as town anyway?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
also possibility of SK - 2 goon setup.  those happen
Let's ignore the possibility of sk until there's actually an extra nk?

Schezo's voting affinity because "lol voted the scum" so uh yeah.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: ActionDan on September 12, 2014, 02:11:29 PM
I don't get it either but w/e
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 02:14:54 PM
LLD do you really not have anything to say at all? :C Schezo did his weird thing and you said "wat" so you clearly were reading the thread, but otherwise we have absolutely no idea who you think might be scum.

Okay, so the other things we're waiting for are... SkyPal reiterating his LLD case I guess. Moridin's already admitted he's got nothin' (yeah that wasn't a very solid counterwagon d2 I'd still be pretty up for lynching him tomorrow if schezo flips town) and I think everyone else has already said their piece.

...everyone else has already said their piece and the only suggestion for a non-Schezo lynch is from SkyPal on LLD, (with no complaints against a Schezo lynch not counting quicklynch adversity :V) it's really not that surprising I felt like just quicklynching him.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 12, 2014, 04:18:07 PM
I think bussing D1 and D2 in a 12-player game is a bit silly, especially when there's possibly a handful of town roles about and up to 3 mislynches left.  If I were scum I'd rather do it on D2 and D4 as I'd only have one mislynch left to aim for.  I think this is the majority view, and why I think heavy bussing over two days is kinda unlikely in general.

===

I don't agree with Sky's case because lots of it is based on the myth that scum don't go for the same person on wagons.  This is an example:

Quote from: Sky
The reason you would bus Raikaria at 5 votes is because scum knew they couldn't pile all their votes on the mislynch of ActionDan.
 

But why not?  It's fair play for scum to go all out a town counterwagon to secure a town mislynch over a scum flip.  Remember scum probably only need 3 mislynches to win the game, and if the ActionDan lynch went through, it would give Rai more time to deflect attention, and no one could know for sure that Raikaria was scum until the end of D2 at least.  Even then, 2 scum would have had 4 townies to hide within, and they would be in a better position than now probably.  It's quite a forseeable scum plan, and thus I really disagree with most of the premises Sky churns out. 

Can understand his frustration over LLD's posting style, but that's life I guess.  I'm inclined to see her wagon involvements as slightly leaning town.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 12, 2014, 04:26:41 PM
Actually, I do think a quicklynch of Schezo isn't a bad idea.  He's not even trying much right now and I don't think he would for the rest of the day; he seems static and so our votes would be.  Unless someone has something to say or something to defend Schezo with (though Schezo should really be defending himself), I think we should go ahead and mire ourselves in thought only tomorrow if there's one.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 04:35:41 PM
Yeah, there's this big stigma against quicklynches because "but we're wasting all the time we could have used for discussion!" but IMO the waste is waiting out 48+ hours when it's already obvious we're lynching Schezo (He's not doing anything to dissuade it, and Sky is literally the only person who's so much as implied wanting to lynch someone else, not counting Dan putzing around helplessly; an SK? Both nights had 1 nightkill.) and any discussion can still happen tomorrow just fine.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 12, 2014, 04:36:39 PM
This Watch is cute and functional!

Schezo: (3) Affinity, Serela, Dorian [L-2]
Affinity: (1) Schezo

Not voting: ActionDan, Moridin84, Lexicat, Sky_paladin
5 votes needed to Lynch
54 Hours and 38 minutes Left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140914T1815&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+3)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 04:42:01 PM
and re:Schezo on Affinity with the laziest vote possible, even if Schezo flips town Affinity is pretty low on my lynch priorities list. I'd go after Moridin, and then after that start wondering if we could actually get LLD lynched. Oh wait. I think we'd be in LyLo at that point. Choosing between Affinity/LLD for lylo... hrm. Well we'll hopefully find the scum before that happens.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Schezo on September 12, 2014, 05:22:43 PM
He didn't have a choice day 1 Raikaria was getting lynched
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 12, 2014, 05:27:26 PM
it might help if your case was more compelling then "affinity voted bard"

I mean that's not even me summarizing your case, that's just... the entire thing.

A lot of people voted Bard. You could accuse Moridin, LLD, or Dan of doing the same thing. "But meta" isn't a good response in this case because Affinity being on the scum wagon isn't very compelling of a meta reason.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Lexicat on September 12, 2014, 08:14:30 PM
Bahhhh I'm so tired.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 12, 2014, 08:51:51 PM
He didn't have a choice day 1 Raikaria was getting lynched
What are you taking about? Of course had he a choice, his vote on Dan and Raikaria could have hammered, e  finito!
With the all around agreement on Dan wouldn?t it to hard to justify and then he could still bus Raikaria day two.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: ActionDan on September 12, 2014, 09:02:05 PM
It's not so so easy to switch in the blink of an eye without sufficient justification.  Regardless, Affinity is likely likely town.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 12, 2014, 09:24:21 PM
I never said it would have been easy, I said that I see ways for him to do it and get away with it.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 13, 2014, 12:20:05 AM
moridin what do you think of Schezo?  Also how about that Dorian suspicion you had from yesterday?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 13, 2014, 01:00:24 AM
yeah quite a number of town genuinely suspected Dan (including me) on D1.  wouldn't be that difficult to number myself among them if i was scum.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Lexicat on September 13, 2014, 01:12:48 AM
Schezo I want a full role claim please.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 13, 2014, 02:09:23 AM
wow that actually completely skipped my mind

I guess Schezo really should have claimed by now if he actually had anything worth caring about, though? But yeah he should claim.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Schezo on September 13, 2014, 03:12:05 AM
If I get 3 people to sheep me I get a promotion. Turns out that shit was a bust.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 13, 2014, 03:28:24 AM
Whilst Schezo's "claim" makes me more inclined to think he's town, playwise he looks too much like the final scum to possibly ignore based on something flimsy like that.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 13, 2014, 04:29:36 AM
hm serela you seem too detailed about stuff for some reason

schezo is that it?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Schezo on September 13, 2014, 04:53:27 AM
After I got the first scum I was just "just let me live long enough to proc this power the third time, oh just kidding I'm trolled alright take me out"

I guess Serela's slot is probably more maflord than Affinity and I'll explain it more towards the end of the night. Until then you can lynch me I don't care
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 13, 2014, 06:30:03 AM
I'm willing to hear Schezo's explanation (aka I'm busy all day and this is the only chance I had to hop in, hope to post tonight) because I thought he was town day 1, odd day 2, and day 3 has been pretty terrible. 

Sigh

There's lots I want to say but I have no time. 

Not much has changed.  Dropped Serela down into scummy category; so my picks in order are LLD/(Schezo or Moridon)/Serela.  I can't see Moridin scum because of the counterwagon yesterday but his performance day 2/day 3 and night 2 commentary hurt me deep inside.  Gotta go
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 13, 2014, 07:19:21 AM
Belay that. Schezo, can you post at night? Are you counter claiming Moridin? Please clarify.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 13, 2014, 08:34:43 AM
Because you said "I'll explain it more to the end of the night" soooo I assume you meant RL yeah?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Moridin on September 13, 2014, 10:23:38 AM
Affinity pushed Just the entirety of day 2. Just may not have been lynched otherwise. So I think it is super unlikely that Affinity is MAFIA.

I don't think there is much point in dragged it out any further.

##vote Schezo
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 13, 2014, 11:03:12 AM
Do not hammer before claim.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 13, 2014, 11:06:40 AM
It shits me that there is so much to do and talk about and the case on Schezo is "because it would be convenient" and SzheO is making the opposite of any effort I defend. Like Lexi. And Serela so scummy and I have no time/ I am right now walking on a tour of takasago shrine and can't do jack. Rage.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 13, 2014, 11:22:52 AM
Well, if you worry about a hammer then I can help you.

##Unvote

##FoS: Schezo


We have time to make the right decision, I still think lynching Schezo is the right decision but it can't hurt to double check.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 13, 2014, 12:47:11 PM
I like how people are still asking for Schezo to claim when he already did? Yeah, it was depressingly non-specific about what (if anything, as it sounds like "nothing" maybe have happened) occurred when he upgraded, but if anything happened he apparently doesn't really care/think it matters to share it, or can't be arsed as scum to bother making something up. If you're being faced with getting lynched up, no one seems to care to lynch anyone else, and they're running you up for a claim, it's your own damn fault if you decide you don't want to go very indepth about it. :T

Sky:Uh, "because it would be convenient"? u wot m8? He had the weird reasonless hop off Raikaria to Dan for a bit on d1, defended the other flipped scum, and voted on said flipped scum's counterwagon for all of d2. I mean we aren't just voting him because he's not defending himself, although it certainly contributes to the case >.> Then d3 he seems to have basically given up on life and voteparks Affinity because "Well he voted the flipped scum and it's affinity so it must be a bus right?" (loose interpretation of events)

Am I scummy because I think Schezo is scum or am I scummy because I'm suggesting we quicklynch him like I basically always do as any alignment when it seems plausible? For what it's worth, the last 24+ hours have accomplished basically nothing apart from managing to get Moridin to say something about Affinity.

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 13, 2014, 12:47:55 PM
also holy shit I'm gonna be really late to work WHY DID I EVEN OPEN MAFIA WHEN IT WAS TIME TO LEAVE

why did they -even schedule me for now- I'm supposed to be explicitly stated as not available this early
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 13, 2014, 02:55:35 PM
@Sky: I addressed the LLD case a bit above.  Also man takasago shrines sound cool, whatever they are.

Well, my heart's still set on Schezo, but if there's something to be said about Serela being scum, then I'm all ears for what Sky, Schezo, and whoever else have to say.  I'm good with the ensuing discussion and I do feel the sentiment that Serela's scum, but I would like to hear Schezo talk about his reasons first.

##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

I would like Dan, LLD to weigh in on who is their preferred lynch today, and at least a sentnece why.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 13, 2014, 03:12:35 PM
OK.  I'm pretty disappointed. 

Schezo was online four hours ago; that was enough to see himself at L-1 and made no post or claim. 

I wanted to believe in a world where scum didn't just give up, where they bussed each other and did all kinds of crazy things and tried hard to win. 

But it seems that I was wrong.  If Schezo is the last scum, that's great that we won, I'm just...it's just unsatisfying. 

I want to go through the whole game and check interactions and so on and so forth but if the player in question makes no effort to defend themselves, what's the point?  All Schezo's given us is 'Affinity is totes scum' and if he's green he should have at least claimed, or explained why he was soft counter-claiming Moridin from day 1. 

The worst thing is I could easily see town!Schezo being this apathetic. 

*Shrug*

I'll save my rants for post game but I can't see any reason to delay this flip.  We don't have a doc because BT and Prims were obvtown targets night 1 and 2, so it'll probably be me dead tonight if we're wrong. 

-cut-

I don't know if I can really make a case on Serela, just there's a lot of stuff they wrote that is bad and I've only ever seen scum!Serela go for a quickhammer. 
I mean is it bad if we look at other players at this stage?  I just...it's, I'm just frustrated, that's all.  I feel like I've put in so much effort to this game and achieved nil.  If Prims and BT solved it day 1, the only reason the game has been going so long is because we had no doc to save them. 

I'm tired.  I don't know what to do.  Lynching Schezo seems like the easy way out.  I just don't see scum intent, and I also don't see towny motivation. 

Takasago was pretty fun, there is a light up festival where all the school kids put out candles in cups and made patterns, and a big electric light garden.  The only downside was the serious lack of food and beer.  I had one can of Asahi and I got about halfway through when my friend thought I was finished and dumped his cigarette in it.  Damnit.  That was the only beer I found all night.  I COULD HAVE BEEN DRUNK NOW but instead I have to be sober.  Siighhhrrr
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 13, 2014, 03:16:32 PM
I don't know what you gaiz thinks the "town" reaction to no one being there to hammer would be?  am I supposed to hurt myself over nothing?  nah.  if nothing happens oh well.

Anyways.  I didn't need to tell you HW to consolidate for the deadline lynch.
...
That may be going over old ground but it's still an interesting question. I can tell that it certainly didn't hurt you here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125847.html#msg1125847) and here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125849.html#msg1125849) to talk Dan into the Raikaria lynch.
So, why was it more important to convince Dan to vote not-me over me than the guys who could have also consolidate on a Dan lynch?

Dorian are you a lyncher by any chance?
Cause me voteparking my "scumbuddy" would be insane.  Hmm let me just bus without bussing so you can all lynch my later for not bussing correctly. 
Or
I'm town who voted scum.
...
Well, I would rather call it desperate than insane. Scum was apparently quite lost day one, so you used your scum bias to not fall into the same trap as Raikaria. How else could you call your ?Raikaria has no opinions? point ?one of the better cases? when it's the only opinion you had yourself?
You even let HW push you into the Dan wagon just to follow him once more, back to Raikaria, like the cute little puppy you were already last game. I'm sure you would have loved to follow HW further as his silly 'Slam Dunk' fell apart, if you have been around, but by the time you came back had BT made the real  slam dunk case, so you couldn't turn back.


...
town!schezo can do whatever the fuck he wants when people aren't going to scumread my tone.  I may have "hilariously bad interactions" but when they read me and say well at least he isn't scum then there's not a lot to do about lynching me.

what else.  not interested in sky lld. 
Everyone's biggest beef is my lack of motivation to play today.  I guess I'm playing again now so eh.
This is also interesting and I'm not even talking about the fact that there is Just one name missing in you not interested list.
First you tell us that we shouldn't mind your bad interactions but focus on you content than you say it's your lack of motivation, which leads to your ?easy come, easy go? play style that makes you suspicious, so what is it?

And finally to your "hilariously bad interactions". I know it's kinda unfair to ask you this but I'm puzzled, so anyone who can provide an answer to this is free to do so.
Why do you think that the guy, who is usually the fist one saying ?OMGUS is one of the most scummiest things you could do?, dared to to do exactly that as his first serious vote in the game as scum? Did he really risked to staged his day one lynch to incriminate you or did he just followed your example.

Cut: It seems my caution is no longer needed to prevent a hammer.

##Vote: Schezo

@Affinity: It may be just my interpretation, but your vote now kinda looks like you already agree on scum Serela, so why do you wait for the case when you take the agreement anticipation?  0_0
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 13, 2014, 03:30:45 PM
I'm too out of it.  I'm going to bed, if there's no hammer I'll do proper reads etc when I get up.  Sorry :C
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 13, 2014, 03:59:27 PM
Well, I was willing to see what Schezo had to say about Serela on his own accord and still am.  I guess Schezo is at L-1? 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 13, 2014, 04:15:37 PM
This.
Beat.
Is Non-.
Stop.

Schezo: (3)  Serela, Moridin84, Dorian [L-2]
Affinity: (1) Schezo
Serela: (1) Affinity

Not voting: ActionDan, Lexicat, Sky_paladin
5 votes needed to Lynch
31 Hours Left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140914T1815&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+3)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 13, 2014, 04:18:57 PM
I think it's L-2. And I see why you want to hear Schezo about that but a unvote would be enough to do the trick. To vote Serela on the other hand makes me think that you just waiting for an reason/excuse to go that way instead.

Cut by the Mod, it is L-2.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: ActionDan on September 13, 2014, 04:19:15 PM
Ya.  I dont think its schezo.  If it was id feel like hed be reluctant to switch to raikaria when he did. And also not actively tell me to do the same (ofc I probably would have done that anyway but hey).

I very much think dorian and affinity are town. 

I wouldn't want to touch lld but she is still a candidate even if unlikely.

That leaves serela moridin... sky?

Im not super convinced like the rest of everyone sky is town but w.e. 

Anyway at this point I think moridin should go.  It was hardly a cw yesterday because I was the 3rd vote and I was town and theres only one other scum vote anyway and I dont think its schezos.

##vote moridin

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 13, 2014, 04:44:31 PM
Ya.  I dont think its schezo.  If it was id feel like hed be reluctant to switch to raikaria when he did. And also not actively tell me to do the same (ofc I probably would have done that anyway but hey).
That's the point Dan. Everyone who can add one and one could have guessed that you would vote Raikaria in the end, so why did he spend time to tell you to vote Raikaria but no one else?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 13, 2014, 06:22:45 PM
@Dorian: Eh that's pretty true.  I think I'll provide a reason though. 

Serela was 'take it or leave it' (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127236.html#msg1127236) on Schezo, saying that he thought Schezo's press on Rai was sort of town despite his D2.  After I posted reasons to vote Schezo, Serela agrees and goes 180 degrees on Schezo and calls for a quick-lynch (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127254.html#msg1127254), without addressing how his initial impressions changed.  Well I did support it too at first, but then even when Schezo offers to post reasons on Serela later in the day instead, Serela totally ignores it (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127597.html#msg1127597) and still calls for a quicklynch. 

It kinda has an opportunistic feel to it, and his eagerness to harp on Schezo's lackluster play D3 over and over again is disconcerting.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Lexicat on September 13, 2014, 08:14:55 PM
Vote: Moridin
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 13, 2014, 10:03:56 PM
fter I posted reasons to vote Schezo, Serela agrees and goes 180 degrees on Schezo and calls for a quick-lynch (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127254.html#msg1127254), without addressing how his initial impressions changed.
I started thinking townier about you, and your reasons took Schezo from "I'd be okay with the lynch I guess" to "I'm pretty okay with this lynch", and that only left Moridin and LLD. So, yeah.

I kept poking Schezo because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WAS HAPPENING, pretty much. :T

You can say it's opportunistic but it's not like the Schezo lynch really needed any more encouragement to actually occur (there was no counterwagons even being suggested until just now) and I pretty much just wanted to speed it up a little since I didn't see anything happening.

At this point I'd be pretty okay with lynching Moridin (schezo can always get lynched tomorrow, just the reverse order I had originally planned, and I have some degree of reservations due to how he's acting?) but at the same time, again, with the way Schezo's acting I'm seeing little point in keeping him alive. :T I guess either way is fine. Agree that Affinity voting me instead of just unvoting is a little weird but I dunno how much scummier it makes me think Affinity is? As in I'm literally not sure whether I think it's scummy or not.

LLD is depressing. She's not being any better than a chicago voter.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 13, 2014, 10:05:08 PM
Quote
LLD is depressing.
like, at this point tbh there's not a lot of need to justify the cases with much reasoning, but she could at least weigh in how scummy she thinks the various people are (e.g. affinity/schezo, since obv. she thinks moridin is scum)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 13, 2014, 10:10:34 PM
I don't know why in the world people have townreads on LLD when she just makes prod-dodge posts and chicago voting posts. And a little talk with SkyPal d2.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 13, 2014, 10:12:21 PM
Im not super convinced like the rest of everyone sky is town but w.e. 
What really got me is Sky's debacle about Bard/LLD having a scum QT together and Bard telling LLD about etcetc, that whole thing. It really makes me think that the chances of them being scum together is pretty low. I guess there's also Sky's massive amount of wallposts d2 that I kinda skipped.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 13, 2014, 10:26:24 PM
Say, did you know we could communicate with rhythms instead of words?

Schezo: (3)  Serela, Moridin84, Dorian [L-2]
Moridin84: (2) ActionDan, Lexicat
Affinity: (1) Schezo
Serela: (1) Affinity

Not voting: Sky_paladin
5 votes needed to Lynch
25 Hours Left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140914T1815&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+3)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 14, 2014, 03:04:37 AM
##vote Lexicat

I had some sleep.  The situation hasn't really changed from yesterday. 

TL;DR
Almost every single post from Lexi is either defending or distancing from a flipped scum. 
There is a clear lack of towny motivation in any of her posts, but her actions (and comments!) are all easily explained by 'she is scumbuddies with Bard and Raikaria'. 
Lexi's posts late day 2 (when Bard was at L-1 and raging at Sky) strongly imply she is his scum buddy. 
Lexi's response to questions is to threaten the player. 
Lexi voted along flipped scum for almost all of day 1 and defended soon-to-flip-scum on day 2. 

***
Lexi's only affirmative action this game was this post where she challenged Dan for his vote on Raikaria in RVS. 

This player has not posted anything since Day 1 begun. Why do you say this?

The reason people town cleared her in the first place was because of her placement on the Raikaria wagon (which was L-3).  However, the people who should be towncleared are the ones at the front, the ones who made the case, or at the very least, the ones who made some kind of indication they were going to vote there before hand.  The ones we should suspect of bussing their scumbuddies are the ones near the end of the lynch, the scums that decided they had to betray their partner to buy town cred, or at the very least, to avoid being on the same wagon as their other scumbuddy.  Check it out. 

Lexicat sat on the Prims vote, along with scum!Bard, until the dying hours of the phase.  Scum!Bard had already joined the Dan wagon.  Did all scum jump on the Dan wagon?  If so, then the most likely third scum is me, in which case I would just remain silent at the moment because the lynch isn't going my way, or tipped Schezo over the edge. 

Lexi had this to say;
Yeah I've seen nothing to convince me that I should be voting anyone but Prims right now.

On the other hand, I did see something I want to follow up on, but I wanna see how it evolves first.

Just and Lexi got off of the Prims wagon at about the same time and went opposite directions.  I find it suspicious. 

We also know that part of Prims case on Bard was because he 'forgot about' Lexicat.  Since Bard was scum, this is a valuable point. 

At this stage, Prims was voting Bard.  The implication is that she is countervoting Prims for voting her scumbuddy.

Lexicat doesn't post again until the Raikaria wagon is at L-3, and she doesn't explain why she suddenly stopped scumreading Prims and now scumreads Raikari.  This is the perfect time for scum to get on their buddies wagon, and it's also at this stage that Raikaria suddenly comes out swinging against Lexicat.  It also explains explains why Bard was willing to vote for ActionDan and 'forgot about' Lexicat.

Now on day 2, let's have a look at what Lexicat did. 

She started off the day by quoting a chunk of Moridin's stuff and voted for him, again without reason.  However, when I questioned her about why she was voting Moridin, she broadened her choices to 'I'm down to lynch Moridin or Sky Palladin today. Not interested in a cf7 or Bard lynch.'  It's clear I'm in this list because I started asking her questions.  Why is she not interested in a CF7 or Bard lynch?  It's a mystery.  Lexi made no mention of CF7 before now, and CF7 mysteriously disappears in her next read, 'I changed my mind, I'm happy to lynch Bard or Sky today.'

Why did this come about?  CF7 appeared and disappeared for no reason, and Bard went from being 'not interested in this lynch' to 'I'm happy for this lynch' without reason.  If she's scum, then the reason is clear - she's faking content/reads.  I strongly suspect the explanation is: She is distancing from her scumbuddy in the same way that she distanced from Raikaria before voting him to L-2.  Which neatly brings us to...

Hey Sky, if I'm scum, tell me why I would bus Rakaria (at 5 votes) over hammering Dan at 6 votes at the deadline or just not posting at all?

Why ask this question at all?  It's time wasting.  If your actions are towny motivated, it's easy to explain your reasoning.  This looks like a question designed to throw people off track. 

The reason Lexi would bus Raikaria at 5 votes is because scum knew it was dangerous to pile all of their votes on ActionDan.  That explains why Bard voted for Dan and Lexi voted for Raikaria at this late stage of the phase.  Lexi left her vote til reasonably late because there was still a good chance that Dan would get mislynched. 

Back in day 2, Lexi continues to distance from Bard, and then in the face of renewed questions for explanation for her random and contradictory actions, says this:

Would you perchance happen to be a programmer with a hard on for overly analytical thinking and large useless quote walls?

What is the point of this?  In response to being questioned for her actions, she attacks the player.  Isn't it just to discourage conversation and analysis?  How are we supposed to interpret this as anything other than 'stop asking me questions'.  I can't see the benefit of a town player saying this kind of statement.  I can see the benefit of a scum player saying to a town player to buzz off and stop asking questions. 

No.  The objective of town is to ask questions and catch scum in their lies or find the falseness in their actions.  Trying to suppress town from doing this is the very essence of scum play. 

Lexi then appeals for somebody to tell her why she should vote Just, despite saying she was against a Bard lynch at the start of the day, and then considering a lynch for no reasons stated.  There's no prior intent or reason for this.  She's just making up shit as she goes. 

On the other hand I still have no reason to explain what I'm thinking.

Prims, you're gonna have to sell me on Bard today.
the reactions weren't about Sky, prims. they were about someone else.

I can actually buy that Bard case, let me reread some shit.
Anyway, you're town. Annoyingly bad, but town.

Vote: Just

I figure this is what I need to do today, but I'm a little nervous about Moridin/Affinity.

No this is bullshit.  Lexi decided at the start of the day to vote Moridin for no reason.  Then she decided to vote me because I questioned her vote.  Then she decided that she definitely didn't want to lynch Bard or CF7 but Sky or Moridin was okay.  Then, somewhere in the midst of our conversation, she decided that Sky was the best bet. 

You are flailing really really hard right now.

People who are interested in lynching Bard. I will lynch Bard tomorrow if we lynch Paladin today.

What is this even?  This is clearly Lexi trying to appeal to the Bard wagon to lynch me.  WE KNOW BARD WAS SCUM.  Is this really the mindset of a town player?  I can't see how it's possible. 

***

Bard at L-1, things get very interesting. 

If you know, isn't that a good reason to actually, you know... Try to improve your gameplay and listen to people when they point out you're arriving at the right conclusion merely by coincidence? Even if LSD were my scumbuddy I wouldn't tell her that you've a hard-on for logic, because it's not true.

You hate logic. You have a hard-on for logical fallacies.
Bard is a meanie :V

"Going crazy" implies you aren't crazy yet, but you are regrettably quite insane. Even if LSD and I were Scum, you basically reasoned I was Scum based on LSD's actions instead of my own, which is arriving at a right conclusion by use of wrong reasoning and arguments. Like concluding a raven is a raven because all ravens are black birds, and this bird is black; for all intents and purposes, it could've been a vulture.

When I call you LSD it's affectionately, though Sky Paladin makes me feel it's a misnomer and you're actually perfectly sane and not crazy.
<3

Lexicat day 3:  No content, votes Moridin about halfway through the phase for no reasons, presumably sheeping others.  But why not vote Schezo? 

WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE NEED? 

If you want me to vote for Schezo/Moridin, please make a case.  Yes they are scummy.  Yes they are bad.  But are they more scummy than Lexicat?  I think not. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Lexicat on September 14, 2014, 03:06:08 AM
Cause  Schezo is town? lol.

Seems a good reason not to vote him.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 14, 2014, 03:07:39 AM
How do you know he's town!!!!!!!!

Quote
I figure this is what I need to do today

Did you think Bard was scum when you voted him, or was it a vote that you 'needed' to do?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Lexicat on September 14, 2014, 03:18:14 AM
I don't feel any need to explain why he's town? Explaining town reads is anti-town.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 14, 2014, 03:24:12 AM
Isn't Schezo still a significant lynch candidate for today even if now there's possibility of someone else being lynched?

And if we, say, lynched Moridin and he flips town, then there's still a quite significant chance Schezo will be lynched tomorrow.

What, are you afraid if you explain why Schezo is town he's going to get nightkilled? In this case I really don't understand how explaining why he's town can hurt.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 14, 2014, 04:33:23 AM
@Sky: The case against Schezo is here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127251.html#msg1127251)

If you keep ignoring other people's cases and try to bash people's heads with the sheer volume of your old you're not going to make many friends in mafia Sky.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 14, 2014, 04:39:00 AM
EBWOP: typo 'LLD case'
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 14, 2014, 04:43:49 AM
@moridin:

Wait a minute.  Here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127316.html#msg1127316) you said you did not want to vote Schezo, let alone quicklynch.  In your next post, you suddenly say that you do here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127586.html#msg1127586), after I said I would.  What's up with that?!  What made you suddenly think Schezo is town, and what made you not willing to listen to what he had to say?  Explain yourself

##Unvote
##Vote: moridin

Urgh, there's probably only one scum left but why are most people so hard to read?

@LLD:  Why don't you wanna convince people that Schezo is town when you want other people to vote with you.  I understand it's usually up to Schezo to do it himself but well that's not happening.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Serela on September 14, 2014, 04:45:14 AM
Rereading those reminds me just how much there's actually a pretty good case on Schezo and why I happily moved to quite wanting his lynch.

(in addition to those there is the d3 addition of his interactions with bard, lackluster affinity vote, and overall giving-upping amount of effort, but you already know those parts)

I don't agree with some parts of SkyPal's case on LLD (and think other bits are null) (that being said I don't disagree with the whole thing, of course) but looking at the quotes does raise some minor alarms for slightly different reasons than the ones I disagree with. Unfortunately, LLD's [insert adjective related to meta here?] is so unusual I'm not sure if it's actually from her being scum or not? I do think she should be lynched in lylo over Affinity if it comes to that. I'm not sure whether I'd lynch her or Moridin first if Schezo flips town. I need to go to bed right now though. Sorry for the lackluster response to your LLD case, SkyPal, I did want to try to acknowledge it since it's in my thoughts.

cut by oh hi affinity oh hi moridin really is going to get lynched over schezo today isn't he huh
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 14, 2014, 04:52:22 AM
...Then again, if neighbors decided to argue with trumpets, that would get really noisy. Ha ha!

Schezo: (3)  Serela, Moridin84, Dorian [L-2]
Moridin84: (3) ActionDan, Lexicat, Affinity [L-2]
Affinity: (1) Schezo
Lexicat: (1) Sky_Paladin

5 votes needed to Lynch
18 Hours Left (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140914T1815&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+3)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 14, 2014, 05:17:50 AM
Serela you seem a bit too docile for my liking, as if you're trying to get on everyone's side (who isn't Schezo, moridin).  What specifically do you agree with in Sky's giant LLD post, other than playstyle/content related issues? 

I ask since I really I don't agree with it, in fact I've addressed a major part of his case here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127393.html#msg1127393); specifically I think that scum not wanting to go on the same wagon is a myth.  But if he doesn't see the need to clarify the issue I have with his case, then I see no reason to do the same much anymore. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 14, 2014, 06:03:35 AM
Hi Affinity,

I feel like I have responded to other people's questions and points and nobody is actually asking me any questions/discussing my cases so it's frustrating. 

I'm looking at your post now.  Which is a pointer to your Day 2 case and Prims Day 2 case, which I'll repost here:

Quote
I can actually get behind your Schezo vote after some (further reading).  Thought him town at first for his long Rai vote, but then he voted for Rai as such:

"but Raikaria is scum though.  He has nothing to say about the entire game posting so lets go back to rvs."

which is completely uninspiring and not something anyone can get behind (compare to BT, he doesn't even chip into his case!).  It's very isolated, and it's not even true after midway through the game when Rai actually says a lot of things (and Schezo doesn't follow up).  He also often says suspects ActionDan (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125613.html#msg1125613) and even votes him, but there's nothing saying why Raikaria is scummier than ActionDan all day.

Lastly, Raikaria's move (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125687.html#msg1125687) away from Schezo is really awkward.  In this post he actually doesn't talk about how Schezo was getting better at all, only saying how other scumspects like Sky and people got 'far worse'.  He even goes to say that he would never move back to Schezo (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125780.html#msg1125780) unless Sky and LLD do great things.  What I said here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125801.html#msg1125801) yesterday applies to Schezo as well, and Rai as flipped scum doesn't bode well for him.

Schezo's D2 is also pretty waffly and going after the easy guy mirodin (with a tinge of huhwhat), so yeah, actually I'm all for lynching Schezo as well!

And Prims
Quote
Schezo claimed his case on Raikaria was a good case but switched to Dan right as pressure on Raikaria was mounting, never explained this later. Despite being around at deadline there's no effort from him to get me to vote Raikaria when it really matters because he has no TOWN MOTIVATION or MOTIVATION in general because scum aren't MOTIVATED to lynch their scumbuddy.

***

I am willing to lynch Schezo because the weight of opinion seems to be he is scum; and when he was at L-1 he came on and didn't claim/defend.  His presence day 3 has been largely nonexistent aside from his *clap clap* thing.  I'm seeing no effort from him - however I'm seeing this from a lot of players so I can't really use this as a discriminating factor. 

I think that Lexi is more likely to be scum because of her play, actions, and interactions.  I feel the case is more compelling.  However I'll vote Schezo if there's no other better cases around - if people aren't agreeing with my Lexi case today, I'll go for Schezo, because the story of "And then all the scums died because they gave up" is just as likely as "the last scum waited for wagons to emerge and just hopped on them". 

I haven't really read Moridin/Schezo but Moridin's day 2/night 2/day 3 play is absolutely awful.  It's just that your case against Moridin is on one point, "Here you said you did not want to vote Schezo, let alone quicklynch.  In your next post, you suddenly say that you do here, after I said I would", and there's about four of those points against Lexi.  That's why I think she's more scummy. 

Or if we just want to clean house on players who are afk/deadweights, I'm okay with that too.  Dan I'm looking at you. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 14, 2014, 06:11:43 AM
"It's fair play for scum to go all out a town counterwagon to secure a town mislynch over a scum flip."

Actually, in Medaka Box mafia day 1 lynch Zak/Bard/CF7 did all pile on to the same wagon, and we see Bard and CF7 both on ActionDan day 1.  That'd be consistent with CF7 or Serela (or me also to be fair) scum this game. 

However whenever I've been scum, I'm pretty sure all my buddies haven't been on the same wagon (when there's more than two of us). 

I just want to see a case that doesn't rely entirely on wagon analysis because it's easy to fall into wifom territory.  Talking about what Moridin did is a big step in the right direction IMO. 

***

Serela
Quote
I do think she should be lynched in lylo over Affinity if it comes to that. I'm not sure whether I'd lynch her or Moridin first if Schezo flips town.

Please talk more about this and explain why you think it. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 14, 2014, 06:30:52 AM
##Unvote

Will be back 8 hours later.  If Schezo doesn't reply then I'd gladly move onto him again sigh.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 14, 2014, 06:33:51 AM
Or Moridin.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Lexicat on September 14, 2014, 06:49:22 AM
Moridin and Serela are the only good lynches today. Third outside option is Affinity.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 14, 2014, 07:22:54 AM
Look we have a bunch of afk players who we have to kill our way through and blindly hope that one of them is scum. 

Dorian and Affinity, looks like it's you and me only here, paying attention to the game.  Everybody else is afk, doing their own thing, or not playing to win.  I think we're wasting our time hoping anything of value will come out of the other players, so let's you and me work it out since it's likely one of us will get killed overnight. 

I think Schezo is a reasonable pick for last scum given that he has been around and not posted.  I think Lexi is a reasonable pick for last scum because she says dumb stuff and gets upset when you call her out for her bullshit, plus her string of super scummy posts day 2.  I don't know about Moridin or Serela. 

I think the three of us can agree on a Schezo lynch even though Lexi is telling us Schezo is town because she knows in advance he'll flip green (because she's scum, I'll wager), we have to break a few eggs to make a pizza or something. 

***

Quote
Cause  Schezo is town? lol.

Seems a good reason not to vote him.

Quote
I don't feel any need to explain why he's town? Explaining town reads is anti-town.

Quote
Moridin and Serela are the only good lynches today. Third outside option is Affinity.

We're probably lynching Schezo tbh so if you think he is town, but don't want to say why, maybe you could outline a case on one of the many players you've picked as scum in the last few days. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Moridin on September 14, 2014, 09:11:00 AM
Geez, can't we just lynch Schezo already? 

The game could have been over yesterday if you guys didn't get cold feet about it.

@moridin:

Wait a minute.  Here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127316.html#msg1127316) you said you did not want to vote Schezo, let alone quicklynch.  In your next post, you suddenly say that you do here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127586.html#msg1127586), after I said I would.  What's up with that?!  What made you suddenly think Schezo is town, and what made you not willing to listen to what he had to say?  Explain yourself

Read again
Quote
Not going to vote for Schezo right now. Probably no reason to quick lynch him right?
I thought he was MAFIA but wanted to give him a a chance to speak. In between my first and second posts he had that chance.

Getting too paranoid man.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 14, 2014, 12:29:20 PM
Nothing from Schezo and he has been around quite recently.  Therefore I'm content to put him away for good. 

I'd a million times prefer a lynch on Lexi but oh well.  I may not be awake when phase times out so voting now. 

##Unvote
##vote Schezo


I'm not feeling this lynch because I could see town!Schezo doing a table flip because his role wasn't good enough.  I'm pretty annoyed because if he was scum he basically afk'd himself to death when there was a completely viable counterwagon on Moridin.  And any scum worth their salt could have got a convincing case on pretty much half the players here if they wanted to. 

I'm sure Lexi is scum but even if I had a confirm guilty I couldn't convince you guys to lynch a girl.  Sheesh. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 14, 2014, 01:36:59 PM
@Dorian: Eh that's pretty true.  I think I'll provide a reason though. 

Serela was 'take it or leave it' (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127236.html#msg1127236) on Schezo, saying that he thought Schezo's press on Rai was sort of town despite his D2.  After I posted reasons to vote Schezo, Serela agrees and goes 180 degrees on Schezo and calls for a quick-lynch (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127254.html#msg1127254), without addressing how his initial impressions changed.  Well I did support it too at first, but then even when Schezo offers to post reasons on Serela later in the day instead, Serela totally ignores it (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127597.html#msg1127597) and still calls for a quicklynch. 

It kinda has an opportunistic feel to it, and his eagerness to harp on Schezo's lackluster play D3 over and over again is disconcerting.
I'm not sure on that, sounds more like the usual Serela waffle and the fact that Schezo managed to lure Serela into his van on the Moridin wagon with the promise of candy doesn't makes it a 180? turn. And about the Schenzos offers to post a Serela case, ?Promising future content is cheep talk.? wasn't that his own words?
Honestly, I think he's just waiting till you dig out a case for him.

@Sky: I think that Lucys play style got to it's limits here, cause she got a problem that she can't  solve with it and I'm not talking about that it leaves her open for you to read any kind of intent into her post that you want to see. No, her problem at the moment is that she can't convince anyone of her preferred lynch who doesn't comes to the conclusion on his own.

@Lucy: I read Schenzos content, looked into his interaction with flipped scum and now I'm sure enough that he's scum that only his flip could convince me of the opposite.
So, what does your MS good play book suggest to convince a townie, who you think is wrong but also a stubborn jerk about his reads?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Affinity on September 14, 2014, 05:42:02 PM
Oh well whatever.

##Vote: Schezo
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: Dorian White on September 14, 2014, 05:49:50 PM
Now we have to wait for the mod to give us the flip.
Any last words before it comes to it, Schezo?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Three)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 14, 2014, 06:31:14 PM
Your love fortune is ...
...You'll be Best of Friends!

Schezo: (5)  Serela, Moridin84, Dorian, Sky_Paladin, Affinity [Lynched]
Moridin84: (2) ActionDan, Lexicat,
Affinity: (1) Schezo

Schezo has been lynched
He was Radical Monkey, a member of the town
He had no special powers.

He used to be Monkey, a member of the town
Who used to have the power to receive a public promotion once people would follow his rhythmic lead three times.

You have until Tomorrow; September 15th, at 3:00 P.M. EST to turn in any and all actions you may have.
The day may start later for Mod convenience, but for your safety, please have all actions in before that time frame.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night Three)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 15, 2014, 07:32:34 PM
You wake up to find that missing the last beat has broken the P-Heart. You also find ActionDan's heart was broken. With a Knife.
ActionDan was killed, He was Karate Joe, A Member of the Town
He had no special abilities.

There are Six people still alive, and so it will take 4 votes to reach majority.
You have 72 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140918T1430&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+4)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Night Three)
Post by: Moridin on September 15, 2014, 07:46:02 PM
Oh yeah, I won't be around when the day starts so I should probably post now.

So Schezo was TOWN after all? Kind of unexpected. I suppose that he got pissed out when he learned the promotion thing was actually a huge troll. Does anyone have any real abilities? The only I've seen so far was BT and his lovers role. And who knows whether that would have ended up being a real thing.

I kind of assumed Schezo was MAFIA so I have not really been paying too much attention to the thread, though I have been reading it and stuff.

Affinity - He pushed and lynched two players who ended up being MAFIA so I thought he was definitely TOWN.
Sky_Paladin - Must be TOWN. He wouldn't be pushing Lexicat so forcefully if he was MAFIA. Too risky
Lexicat - I have no idea. Maybe Sky isn't crazy?
Serala - Maybe MAFIA?
Dorian - Maybe MAFIA? Nobody else seems to think so though. I think he's the one that's been throwing doubt on Affinity's TOWN-ness so that might be a thing
ActionDan - This guy has been getting a free run this entire time. Day 1 might have been sometime of a gambit, Whoever got lynched, the other would get a lost of townie points due to being the counter wagon.And when I was the counter-wagon, he was  voting for me, along with Just and Lexicat.

Ninja'd by the Mod.

I thought "daybreak" was a few hours away still. This makes my ActionDan thing a total wash...

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 15, 2014, 07:50:31 PM
Well, it was Dan SkyPal or Dorian. I wasn't expecting Dan though.

##Vote Moridin

Affinity quickhammer (given that discussion actually -had- started to occur towards the end of the day, even if it was still awkward) doesn't feel like a scum move because it'd draw a little extra scrutiny, and he certainly wasn't going to be the one lynched, so it wasn't necessary for scum!Affinity. From there it's LLD or Moridin. Actually, I'm not entirely sure why I voted moridin off the bat, because I'm not sure whether I'd rather lynch him or LLD? Definitely don't want to lynch anyone else, though. Mmn. I suppose I'll wait to see the general opinions and whatever, now that the Schezo stuff is out of the way.

##unvote

cut by moridin attempting to nightpost and being too late rofl, I've practically forgotten he's insomniac after all he did n3 was make a joke
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 15, 2014, 08:05:01 PM
When I reread over Moridin it makes me want to think he's town :/ I recall earlier in the game when I was rereading everything, I did a quote from him and said "yeah moridin is probably town" or something along those lines, and my reread really makes me want to do that kind of thing again. As before, he's still only a lynch option because of PoE; he hasn't done anything quite enough to give him a soft townclear, and most of the other players are townier than him.

##Vote LLD

I'm not sure if it's even worth trying to type up a case on her because she's hardly existed. Her posts are either empty or easy comments that are null when it comes to trying to read her alignment. Being on scum wagons helped her look town but it's not out of the question she bussed. Ugh, now that I think about it, she'd have had to hard bus her scumbuddies almost as hard as Affinity? Her votes both came much later in the wagon than Affinity's, though, and her posts are empty wheras Affinity actually has good play with original opinions and etc to support that he's town.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 15, 2014, 08:16:29 PM
So, Schezo promised us content and lurked in the hope his wagon would go away? Why didn't he claimed scum to begin with, that would have saved us quite some time at least.^^;;

Speaking of unexpected town flips.

##Vote: Lexicat

For someone who thought that Schezo was town were you surprisingly unconcerned about his impending lynch. Can you explain that?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 15, 2014, 08:20:57 PM
Looks like SkyPal is gonna get that LLD lynch he wanted!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 08:22:21 PM
I don't have to explain my actions, but I'll remind you I'm not that used to 72 hour days.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 08:22:41 PM
Looks like SkyPal is gonna get that LLD lynch he wanted!

Vote: Serela
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 08:23:29 PM
Like if that post doesn't result in a Serela lynch, I am happy to wash my hands of this game.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 08:27:04 PM
So, Schezo promised us content and lurked in the hope his wagon would go away? Why didn't he claimed scum to begin with, that would have saved us quite some time at least.^^;;

Speaking of unexpected town flips.

##Vote: Lexicat

For someone who thought that Schezo was town were you surprisingly unconcerned about his impending lynch. Can you explain that?

Also, in a town of SkyPaladin being a fanatic, and the context of Schezo being overly mysterious about his role yesterday, what % chance do you think I have of saving him?

Cause you know I'll save townies from being lynched. I did it for ActionDan on Day 1 to get the Rakaria lynch.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 15, 2014, 08:31:31 PM
SkyPal has been gunning hard on you being scum since d2, and now if he votes you (which I'd assume he would) you'd end up at l-1 without enough votes for anyone else to get lynched unless Dorian changed his mind, so I think it's a pretty fair thing to say?

Honestly I think your playstyle of "I'm not going to justify any of my opinions" is crazy scummy and doesn't work. It's basically equivalent to "I'm not going to play the game", and I don't know why everyone just accepts it. Not explaining townreads? I totally understand that. Not explaining townreads when the person in question is about to get lynched? Now that's just playing against your wincon. Not explaining your SCUMREADS? You're not encouraging anyone else to actually vote your scum reads then. And all of that combined ends up with there being nothing to actually support that you're town, because you're almost like a chicago voter.

cut
Quote
what % chance do you think I have of saving him?
The moridin wagon actually started getting support late d3 and I myself commented that I kinda considered joining it too, which would have been enough to swing the wagons from Schezo to Moridin. If you'd actually had reasons for Schezo being town that people considered decent, Moridin might have been yesterday's lynch; but you didn't try to stop Schezo's lynch past "Eh I think he's town".

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 08:36:40 PM
yeah you're scum.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 15, 2014, 08:40:22 PM
Also, in a town of SkyPaladin being a fanatic, and the context of Schezo being overly mysterious about his role yesterday, what % chance do you think I have of saving him?

Cause you know I'll save townies from being lynched. I did it for ActionDan on Day 1 to get the Rakaria lynch.
Excuses, the lynch required five votes, not just Skys. You could have tried to convince Serela or Moridin or if you think they are likely scum then Affinity or me.
Fact is, you didn't even tried, and don't tell you didn't had enough time to do so. You had more than enough.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 15, 2014, 08:45:54 PM
*and don't tell me, you didn't  ...
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 08:47:03 PM
Excuses, the lynch required five votes, not just Skys. You could have tried to convince Serela or Moridin or if you think they are likely scum then Affinity or me.
Fact is, you didn't even tried, and don't tell you didn't had enough time to do so. You had more than enough.

You don't know jack about my personal life, so this is a fucking dumb thing to say.

Regardless,  you should be looking at Serela's post today and realizing what you need to do.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 15, 2014, 09:25:36 PM
It may be the case that I don't know about your ?personal life? but I can tell that someone who has time to write this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127721.html#msg1127721) could have also said something to his defense and if explaining your town reads is anti-town, then how anti-town is it to let a mislynch pass?
By the way, your AtE has been noticed.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 15, 2014, 09:57:15 PM
Every day I spend my time ~ Thinkin' about wine, feelin' like a nine
Waitin' here for you, to show me the sign ~
That I can understand ~ Yes I am. ~

In the nights between the hours ~ Golden towers, bloody flowers ~
Throw your reads in to the air ~ I don't think that I ever know ~
There I go ~
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 10:06:16 PM
It may be the case that I don't know about your ?personal life? but I can tell that someone who has time to write this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127721.html#msg1127721) could have also said something to his defense and if explaining your town reads is anti-town, then how anti-town is it to let a mislynch pass?
By the way, your AtE has been noticed.

For one, I stand behind explaining reasonings for town reads being anti town.

For another, I posted that before I passed out into a depression sleep for about 16 hours.

So bite me~ (wait, I might like that... hmmm)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 15, 2014, 10:18:14 PM
So, me and Dorian have been discussing this for awhile, and we've come to a decision. It's time to come out of the closet.

We're in love! BT touched us N0 and we have seen the light. Me and Dorian know eachother to be town through mod confirmation, and have a fab QT together.

But, you say, that doesn't make you confirmed town to everyone else! You could be a town/scum survivor pair now! But alas, it cannot be; the game would be in Lylo right now as a mislynch and nightkill would put the game at 2v2, where we would have control of the lynch. If we were an anti-town pair, it'd be lylo right now. And since we're town, it'd be dumb if we were lying, because calling people modconfirmed town when they're not is bad. Apart from that, if you need more proof we're totally lovers, I've been basically COMPLETELY IGNORING Dorian in-thread for the entire game, up to excluding him from most of my posts where I touch on my feelings about everyone in the game. I also talked about how I was planning quicklynches in my scum qt (Dorian, sadly, did not want to quicklynch :C And obviously it's not a scum qt or it'd be lylo etc)

After I realized we're basically confirmed town after the claim and that SkyPal would almost certainly make the same lylo lynch decision as us tomorrow (if the game isn't over today), I figured there's not much point in keeping it a secret anymore, whether or not I'm actually in any danger today.

...so yeah!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 15, 2014, 10:29:23 PM
For one, I stand behind explaining reasonings for town reads being anti town.

For another, I posted that before I passed out into a depression sleep for about 16 hours.

So bite me~ (wait, I might like that... hmmm)
I'm sorry Lucy, but I had to push that point, if you block further then you just end up like Schezo.

##Unvote
for now

And sorry again, but it seems that my heart is already claimed by someone else.^^;
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 10:34:17 PM
I'll take that as you confirming her claim, Dorian, and I'll adjust appropiately.

Vote: Moridin
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 15, 2014, 10:41:20 PM
wow, my head hurts.

A question to Serela/Dorian: you say mod-confirmed, but do you mean that the mod explicitly confirmed that both of you are TOWN, regardless of roles and stuff?  Because you said we could mistake you guys as scum survivor/town, which should not be the case if the above is true (the town part of the pair would deny it).  And it's not impossible if there's only one scum left? 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 15, 2014, 10:50:33 PM
Yes, the mod confirmed that the other is town to each of us.

I don't mean scum survivor/town, I meant scum/town survivor pair. Like a joint third party? If town and scum were joined and alignment confirmed otherwise the town would obviously immediately out the scum, and it'd certainly be possible for us to be a town/scum itp pair lying about being town otherwise. That'd be an interesting kind of cop, actually... but I digress.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 15, 2014, 10:55:52 PM
Yo, it's 1:30 isn't it?
It's time for a snack, Isn't it?

Lexicat: (1) Serela
Moridin: (1) Lexicat

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity, Moridin, Sky_Paladin
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 68.5 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140918T1430&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+4)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 15, 2014, 10:56:39 PM
Yes, ?explicitly confirmed TOWN? that's what the PM said that I got at the end of night 0. And about the ?scum survivor/town? part, it's needless to say that BT was the cause of this, by picking two random player? Which means random alignment.
I mean you got only our word that we are both town.^^;

Greez Serela, can you at least tell me before you cut me.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Moridin on September 15, 2014, 11:03:16 PM
Hmm.

BT picked the two people right? What would have happened if he picked a MAFIA/TOWN pair? Would you have become a third party? Would he have simply not confirmed either of you as TOWN? Would he tell lie and tell you that the other was TOWN?

Remember the type of person this mod is
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127273.html#msg1127273

Quote from: Serala
Apart from that, if you need more proof we're totally lovers, I've been basically COMPLETELY IGNORING Dorian in-thread for the entire game, up to excluding him from most of my posts where I touch on my feelings about everyone in the game. I also talked about how I was planning quicklynches in my scum qt (Dorian, sadly, did not want to quicklynch :C And obviously it's not a scum qt or it'd be lylo etc)
Completely ignoring your partner and not discussing your feelings? That sounds more like you are married rather than lovers. :p
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 11:11:02 PM
We have 2 dead scum. That means this is almost impossible to be a scum/scum gambit. I'm willing to believe they're both mod confirmed town and if it turns out that one of them is scum and the other is town, and they misunderstood their role, there's not a lot I can do about that.

So basically, I know I'm town, Serela and Dorian are town, Sky Paladin is pretty fucking town, so that just leaves Moridin and Affinity?

And I'm pretty confident in my affinity town read, but I could be wrong

So really there's only one option? The same option I voted for yesterday? How about that shit!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 15, 2014, 11:15:52 PM
Moridin
Quote
So Schezo was TOWN after all?
Why the question mark?

Quote
Does anyone have any real abilities?
Come here little fish~ 
But I suppose this is a relevant topic for today.  With no 'real' town power roles flipped, it might be time for a mass claim and pooling of town's info.  Do not actually claim.  Just vote yes/no for mass claim.  Obviously I am most interested in Lexi and Moridin's claim at this point because they are most likely to be scum. 
My vote is for claim

Quote
I kind of assumed Schezo was MAFIA so I have not really been paying too much attention to the thread, though I have been reading it and stuff.
When and why did you assume this?  It looks like your vote appeared mid/late day 3, so reality doesn't reflect this excuse.  Please clarify further. 

Quote
Affinity - He pushed and lynched two players who ended up being MAFIA so I thought he was definitely TOWN.
Why past tense?  Do you no longer think he is town?  Why? 

Quote
Serala - Maybe MAFIA?
Dorian - Maybe MAFIA? Nobody else seems to think so though. I think he's the one that's been throwing doubt on Affinity's TOWN-ness so that might be a thing
Why were those two 'maybe mafia' (before their claim)? 

***

Serela
Quote
Well, it was Dan SkyPal or Dorian. I wasn't expecting Dan though.
Why not Affinity?  Why Dan at all?  Dan is a completely bizarre night kill because his actions are random, unaccountable, and he was the best mislynch for scum to line up in LYLO.  A Dan kill is indicative of a player not aware of the Shrine Maiden meta, which implicates Moridin. 

Quote
As before, he's still only a lynch option because of PoE; he hasn't done anything quite enough to give him a soft townclear, and most of the other players are townier than him.
He's scummy because his posts are devoid of content and he did absolutely nothing useful with his night talk ability.  As far as I can recall, he just wagon hopped and urged for a Schezo lynch.  If Schezo had put up an iota of effort, it probably would have been Moridin's head on a pike yesterday. 

Dorian
Quote
For someone who thought that Schezo was town were you surprisingly unconcerned about his impending lynch. Can you explain that?
Pretty much this (re: Lexi). 

Lexi
Quote
Also, in a town of SkyPaladin being a fanatic, and the context of Schezo being overly mysterious about his role yesterday, what % chance do you think I have of saving him?
Actually really high.  I was begging you to post something justify your many random town reads/scum reads for the last two days.  But when you say stuff like this - 'I don't have to explain my actions, but I'll remind you I'm not that used to 72 hour days' - what reason do we have to believe you would ever act to help another person? 

Quote
You don't know jack about my personal life, so this is a fucking dumb thing to say.
Ahahaahahahhahahaa

OK. 

Moridin has a trail of scummy posts and while he is scummy because of content than Lexi is, Lexi's is more scummy than Moridin because of her lack of content/general hostility/spirit of petulance/apparent desire for townies to be lynched/many positive interactions with flipped scum. 

I want to play a game. 

Moridin, why should we lynch Lexi instead of you? 
Lexi, why should we lynch Moridin instead of you? 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 15, 2014, 11:17:50 PM
Quote
A Dan kill is indicative of a player not aware of the Shrine Maiden meta, which implicates Moridin. 

I could also consider that Dan may also have died if he was too close to the target, or scum had reason to believe he was roled, or scum believed BT may have attached Dan to somebody to get a double kill. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 11:19:10 PM
Because I'm town, fuck you your question is bad?

I've spent this entire game not caring about building town cred that I would NEED TO BUILD if I was planning on bussing two of my partners into the ground and running this game solo. Then,  I (as hypotehtical scum) decide to kill people who have been calling me town this whole game instead of the people who are wavering on me.

That's how I setup for an endgame? Please.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 11:21:37 PM
I'm also laughing at apparent desire for townies to be lynched.

I'd like to point out that so far at end of day vote counts, I am 2-0 with a third potential up in the air depending on what Moridin flips (hint: It's gonna be scum unless Affinity is awesome).

So maybe you should try pinning "wanting to lynch town" onto someone who doesn't have a perfect lynch record so far, yeah?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 11:33:15 PM
And for the love of god please stop that quote stripping bullshit. I don't read it .
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 15, 2014, 11:45:04 PM
BT picked the two people right? ...
Yes, that most likely the case. But any ?what if? question should you address at the mod, cause we have no idea how that would turn out.

Also
Dorian - Maybe MAFIA? Nobody else seems to think so though. I think he's the one that's been throwing doubt on Affinity's TOWN-ness so that might be a thing
I give you that you are unfamiliar with Affinitys meta, cause that guy don't need any help with ?boiling up paranoia?. The fact that he's still alive over Dan is prove enough.

@Lucy: Is it really that clear?

@Sky: Dan isn't the ?best mislynch for scum? he may be the best help for scum to mislynch but that's mostly the same. Aware of the Shrine Maiden meta or not, the question is why Dan over Affinity?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 15, 2014, 11:52:48 PM
It's really that clear.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 12:00:43 AM
I've spent this entire game not caring about building town cred
Which is why you're up for a lynch, with how you voted on both scum wagons if you'd actually done a little of that there probably wouldn't be a wagon on you whilst Moridin is still around.

Ugh, I changed my mind, I think Moridin is it. If that's wrong LLD can still get lynched tomorrow, so it's not a big deal. I probably wouldn't be swapping my votes between them like this if it actually mattered what order we lynch them in, but it really shouldn't; if one of them is scum the game has pretty much been won for quite awhile, considering me and Dorian's lovers position eliminating the Serela mislynch and Affinity becoming an unviable mislynch.

##Unvote ##Vote Moridin

Quote
A Dan kill is indicative of a player not aware of the Shrine Maiden meta, which implicates Moridin. 
While I can kind of see where you're coming from, Affinity was still kinda sorta maybe mislynch material and I'm sorry but to be honest I don't view you as high on scum's NK list (unless lld was scum I suppose, since a vote is still a powerful in lategame) Gaming the nks isn't usually a very smart move. But, well, when I think about it, I guess I kinda agree with you here? :T I already want to lynch Moridin anyway though, so.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 12:03:59 AM
When you consider the lovers are effectively masons, due to the fact that an extra death with these numbers does NOT result in lylo coming any earlier (barring a no-lynch, which is unlikely to occur), they're actually a fairly strong town power in this game.

I'm reminded to be incredibly amused that Schezo was another victim of the Mod-Announced Conditional Functional Vanilla role :V Isn't it sad Shadoweh
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 12:06:25 AM
Although the setup would have been really... interesting if a town/scum pairing occurred.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 16, 2014, 12:58:13 AM
Was actually quite suspicious of the Serela/Dorian claim. I can see wanting to get the game over and done with but the timing of it is way off I feel. 

As town it would have been a better idea to hold onto it and claim only if any of you guys were under serious threat of a lynch.  If we lynched incorrectly otherwise and you guys had made it to the 4P MyLO (no harm trying), then we would have a bigger chance to win (50+% chance if no lynch and so on).  The day is also kinda robbed of its tension due to the claim, not to much discuss about anymore almost.  I'll trust in the mod for now though.

Obviously, I've no qualms about lynching moridin over Sky and LLD, even immediately. If the game drags on then it will be quite difficult, so...

Moridin, do you have any last words on who you think is scum and stuff?   Any claim on top of the nightalk thing?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 03:57:55 AM
We decided it didn't matter because whether we live or we die tonight, Moridin/LLD were almost certainly the lynches for today/tomorrow, in whichever order. So, it wouldn't make a difference whether we died tonight or SkyPal died tonight. Yeah, it'd be cooler to live to the end ourselves, but that brings up the next point-

Claiming right away makes today fairly easy and painless. I don't feel like defending myself and also making other people have to deal with thinking about whether I'm scum or not, when I can just be confirmed town instead. Maybe we can actually do a quicklynch this time, too?!

Of course, I do want to at least give Moridin a chance to say something.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 04:14:11 AM
I do not trust masons claim at all; nothing in BTs flip suggests they get confirmed to each other.
I assume they both claimed town to each other and decided to make it up that they were mason pair to each other.

As I happens I think they are both probably town anyway so nm.

I asked for a vote on claims, nobody read it of course.

I want claims. I suggest this order:
Lexi
Moridin
Sky or Affinity, buddies can pick.
Dorian/Serela.

ATM still want to lynch Lexi because she is only defending, not making a case on Moridin, and her defense is all WIFOM and AtE ie empty content blathering and time wasting.

Waiting in Moridin to say something incriminating.

I've seen a couple of people point fingers at affinity but I don't know why. Somebody want to elaborate on a case there?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 04:16:49 AM
Re buddies:  if one if them is scum then the other is complicit in going for a survivor type victory. Aka we are in LYLO right now.

@mod - is it currently *ylo?

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 04:37:59 AM
I do not trust masons claim at all; nothing in BTs flip suggests they get confirmed to each other.
I assume they both claimed town to each other and decided to make it up that they were mason pair to each other.
Fakeclaiming that we're modconfirmed town to eachother would be a really lame thing to do.

I mean I guess I could understand us doing it if Dorian was like SUPER ZETA SURE I was town, to avoid me getting lynched. :T I can't blame you for thinking of the possibility. But just outright assuming we must have lied and that it can't be what actually happened is kind of lame of you, too.

It's not like BT flipped a detailed rolepm where you can expect to fully understand the function of his role.

Anyway it's not a big deal I guess since you still think we're town and you'll see postgame.

Claiming probably got forgotten due to everything that happened inbetween. Me and Dorian are both vanilla town. Moridin needs to fullclaim for obvious reasons, even if it's just clarifying "I'm just insomniac guys!" and LLD is most likely getting driven up a wall tomorrow so she might as well get it out of the way (she isn't getting nightkilled due to such if she claims anything short of "after d4 lynch I become modconfirmed town" and any info role results would be redundant in 3~4p lylo) and then after them Sky/Affinity just for the sake of completeness.

I kind of expect everyone to claim vanilla (apart from moridin for obvious reasons) but yeah we should get claims over and done with.

re:Affinity, he was a mild scum read on people but it kind of dissolved for everyone somewhere around d3? I don't think anyone thinks him to be not-town anymore. I could be wrong though? I honestly haven't paid too much attention to who has still has uncertain reads on affinity, but I don't think anyone particularly finds him scummy anymore at the least.

And, yeah, I already said that if we weren't town/town we'd be in lylo right now, meaning that we can't be. It doesn't hurt to ask the mod but if he wasn't going to announce lylo I imagine it'd be in the rules, since that would be extremely unusual and something everyone would be like "dude wtf?" about postgame if it happened.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 04:47:33 AM
Which part of "claim in this order" did you not understand. We can't catch scum in fake claims if town outs themselves up front for no reason.

Lexi claims. Moridin claims. Then affinity or Sky claims. Then you two amend your claim if you faked vanilla sigh.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 16, 2014, 04:52:05 AM
Depends on whether people want to claim.  I agree moridin has to and should definitely go first though.

Schezo suspected me for meta reasons D3 and that's it I guess.

Claiming should be agreed on by town as a whole you have no right to call the shots Sky.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 04:56:42 AM
"I mean I guess I could understand us doing it if Dorian was like SUPER ZETA SURE I was town, to avoid me getting lynched. :T I can't blame you for thinking of the possibility. But just outright assuming we must have lied and that it can't be what actually happened is kind of lame of you, too."

I'm kind of a jerk about secret neighborhood quicktipics that are always assured to be "basically masons" and then have a scum in them.  So if either of you are lying about being confirmed, consider that whichever one if you suggested it is almost certainly scum!Serela, because I already town cleared Dorian.  So please check your hearts and be sure this is legit and understand why it's too good to be true. 

Cut
Affinity I asked nicely and was ignored. Im now calling the shots because I'm generally perceived as town whereas apparently you are not.
We already have a partial claim from Moridin. Therefore, Lexi claims first.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 16, 2014, 05:23:22 AM
Yeah I'm not claiming unless Dorian asks for it.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 16, 2014, 05:44:24 AM
Quote
Affinity I asked nicely and was ignored. Im now calling the shots because I'm generally perceived as town whereas apparently you are not

More for your verbosity than any soundness on your part.  I'm not for the idea.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 06:01:59 AM
Actually we have three claims plus my vote for claims, so the only people who are against claiming are Lexi and Affinity.  Yes?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 16, 2014, 06:22:33 AM
Uh no.  Just because they claimed doesn't mean they agree with everyone claiming sigh. 

If the last remaining mafia is a roleblocker he could roleblock any claimed power role  and conduct the NK at the same time.  Why risk it when it isn't LyLO and 6P, where (for example) a successful protect can stall LyLO for one more day and confirm a townie?  I don't think there's a need to claim unless there's a good reason to.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 16, 2014, 07:05:36 AM
Snacks are THE BEST!!

Moridin: (2) Lexicat, Serela

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity, Moridin, Sky_Paladin
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 60 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140918T1430&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+4)

Town is guaranteed to live for another day regardless of lynch and nightkill results.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 16, 2014, 07:11:52 AM
Um, is that vote count correct mod?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 16, 2014, 08:21:05 AM
Quick post from work.

@Lucy: I wouldn't ask for your claim if you don't want to claim but when you are town, then you should at least show us some of your "carts" to prove it.

Also, I can agree with a Moridin lynch but I would like to look into his interactions with Raikaria and Bard again and a few other things, when I'm home.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Moridin on September 16, 2014, 08:37:01 AM
Already claimed. Still not sure why this ability is considered particularly useful. Nothing stops people from reading the thread during the night, nor writing up a post during it even if they can't post it until the day.

Geez, everyone else gets detailed arguments referencing posts and such, I get vague comments about scummyness and lack of content.

Serala & Dorian are TOWN / Sky is TOWN / Affinity is TOWN is a very reasonable stance at this point. Myself and Lexicat are the only uncertainties, so even if I get lynched today Lexicat will get lynched tomorrow. So a guaranteed TOWN victory? Provided Affinity isn't super sneaky.

##vote Lexicat


----------------
Answering Sky cause I'm a nice guy.

Quote from: Sky_Paladin
Why the question mark?
...

It indicates mild surprising or confusion I guess?

Is that something "scummy"? Or what are you thinking to get from this question?

Quote from: Sky_Paladin
When and why did you assume this?  It looks like your vote appeared mid/late day 3, so reality doesn't reflect this excuse.  Please clarify further. 
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127765.html#msg1127765

Quote from: Sky_Paladin
Why past tense?  Do you no longer think he is town?  Why?
Quote from: Sky_Paladin
Why were those two 'maybe mafia' (before their claim)? 
Well it doesn't really matter at this point.

Quote from: Sky_Paladin
Why not Affinity?  Why Dan at all?  Dan is a completely bizarre night kill because his actions are random, unaccountable, and he was the best mislynch for scum to line up in LYLO.  A Dan kill is indicative of a player not aware of the Shrine Maiden meta, which implicates Moridin. 
Except people have mentioned this about ActionDan a few times in both this game and the last.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 08:42:27 AM
In anticipation of a claim from Lexi. 

##vote Lexicat
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 08:45:28 AM
It seems 3/4 of my post vanished with a hilarious keyboard shortcut error.  What I had written was something like:

Since it's not LYLO, I'll buy that Serela and Dorian are both town/unofficial masons. 

More to come after dinner probably. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 12:38:09 PM
) a successful protect can stall LyLO for one more day and confirm a townie?
Considering Prims was mega obv nk I really doubt we have any conventional protective role. I guess other people might have a different opinion about how likely the Prims nk had been though (he drove both scum lynches pretty hard, esp. bard, was crazy town looking overall, and very active, the other prob-towns didn't really shine a light to that). I don't really care about people other than LLD/Moridin claiming, and yeah LLD should just claim today because no matter what LLD says tomorrow "scum doing last ditch effort in lylo" would be the most likely reaction. Unless she's secretly a protective role but uh?

I guess Affinity/SkyPal don't really need to claim. I'm just not thinking very hard anymore because all the people I think are likely scum are most likely being lynched and I'm just kind of "okay let's get this game wrapped up".
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 12:39:38 PM
Quote
Moridin: (1) Lexicat, Serela
Yeah Zak can you clarify whether or not this is correct? >.>
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Moridin on September 16, 2014, 01:12:53 PM
By the way, I consider the night 2 to contain the most worthwhile night posts. Anything else I said during the night I could have said during the day. The joke, however, only really works if there is a gap of several hours inbetween.

Just saying cause Sky keeps dissing it.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 01:14:25 PM
I went from "OKAY YEAH WE'RE LYNCHING MORIDIN" to "gdi rofl".

ghaghhghahh

Why do I want to give all the must-be-scum town clears? Why can't I just vig someone. Just to make sure. Mafia cannot be too easy though I guess.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 01:15:40 PM
That post probably had weird progression, I meant the first sentence as to his joke nightpost thing, the endpart was not explicitly related although yeah I keep wanting to think he's town, that's nothing new. :T He's all new and stuff so I'm going to go with "I don't know how he'd act as scum, let's just lynch it."
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 02:37:04 PM
The role, Moridin, is to help coordinate town by being the first person with the chance to comment in a flip, assign protectors/checks/etc as well as elucidate on scum picks and maybe make a case or two. No role is truly useless and we have a number of vanilla towns who would gladly have had your ability, in sure.

When I wake up I'll go through the game again and try Raik/Bard/Moridin team and Raik/bard/Affinity team and see if I can find a better match than Lexi. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 16, 2014, 02:38:56 PM
Yeah mafia is tough and sad and never set in stone; even Sky could be the last remaining scum anyways.  We should take all outs offered I guess.

Well to talk about my stance on LLD again, I trust her early votes on the wagon D1/2 and I don't buy Sky's reasoning that she did so merely to 'avoid piling onto the same wagon as her other scummates' (we talked it out here[URL] and I made my point).  Come on, wagon analysis two days straight should be like a great stalwart thing we can rely on.  It's not something we should give up due to paranoia over her playstyle.

So I think moridin would be the best lynch today.  He complains we don't say anything about him but he doesn't say anything in the first place so it's a fair trade.

I'll throw out possible reasons why Sky is scum for posterity (possible LyLO) later I guess, so don't lynch yet?  It'll be a pain but I think we might be giving him too wide a clear and stuff. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127756.html#msg1127756)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 16, 2014, 02:39:38 PM
EBWOP: Yeah mafia is tough and sad and never set in stone; even Sky could be the last remaining scum anyways.  We should take all outs offered I guess.

Well to talk about my stance on LLD again, I trust her early votes on the wagon D1/2 and I don't buy Sky's reasoning that she did so merely to 'avoid piling onto the same wagon as her other scummates' (we talked it out here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127756.html#msg1127756) and I made my point).  Come on, wagon analysis two days straight should be like a great stalwart thing we can rely on.  It's not something we should give up due to paranoia over her playstyle.

So I think moridin would be the best lynch today.  He complains we don't say anything about him but he doesn't say anything in the first place so it's a fair trade.

I'll throw out possible reasons why Sky is scum for posterity (possible LyLO) later I guess, so don't lynch yet?  It'll be a pain but I think we might be giving him too wide a clear and stuff.

@mod: could you delete the above post?  T.T
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Moridin on September 16, 2014, 03:42:36 PM
The role, Moridin, is to help coordinate town by being the first person with the chance to comment in a flip, assign protectors/checks/etc as well as elucidate on scum picks and maybe make a case or two. No role is truly useless and we have a number of vanilla towns who would gladly have had your ability, in sure.

Hmmm...
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127273.html#msg1127273
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 16, 2014, 03:59:23 PM
It's an eclectic type of role that might have been inspired by a nigh-identical one I used in one of my setups here. I don't know if it's ever been used on mafiascum or wherever?

In my setup, the point was after it was announced they powered up, it was assumed they'd pretend to have actually powered up. I even heavily implied that in the rolepm. (Lying about your role as town -can- be done tastefully, even if it's a rather thin line to walk, plus even if you don't it still arouses scum suspicion) For here, well, you'd have to ask Zak postgame.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 16, 2014, 05:01:40 PM
It seems you need to practice more ... Try again!

Moridin: (2) Lexicat, Serela
Lexicat: (2) Moridin84, Sky_Paladin

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity,
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 50 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140918T1430&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+4)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 16, 2014, 09:33:29 PM
So Moridin, you want a old-fashioned case against you? That's something I can help with.

Lets start with your first vote here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125442.html#msg1125442). Leaving the name confusion aside is it a vote for inactivity, not a big deal at this point but we will soon see a pattern here.
You fixed your vote here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125464.html#msg1125464) as the confusion was cleared, the reason is still the same.
This (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125566.html#msg1125566) is actually your first interesting vote. The actual post just shows that you are unfamiliar with the concept of busing but more interesting is that it lacks any reason why you go with Dan now instead of Lucy. You later said that ?lynching ActionDan is a reasonable strategy. On top of trying to pressure him to be useful.? I'll take that as a late agreement on HWs suggested policy, still a vote for inactivity nonetheless.
Your end of the day is as uninspiring as the rest, fence sitting on Raikaria (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125854.html#msg1125854) and a quick side note (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125892.html#msg1125892) is
all you had for the scum lynch.

You night on the other hand had some points, not that the ?scum slip? or ?HW pushed the counter wagon all day to switched in the last min.? that good but it's shows that you were trying at last. But you ?Levels? (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126061.html#msg1126061) make me wonder. 
?Just - There seems to be a case against him due to some meta? This is what caught Raikaria so I'm not going to dismiss it.? What made you think that Raikaria was caught on meta? And what made you trust a case that you apparently didn't even understood at the time?
Also,
?Lexicat - A jackass? Other then I haven't got anything conclusive on him. He hasn't posted much? Didn't you suspected her before you went for Dan? So what in the ?hasn't posted much? was so town that she droped down to Level 2?

You day two vote (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126365.html#msg1126365) came a bit late, so why didn't you wanted to vote me right away? If the scum slip was good enough to put me on Level 5 then why wasn't it good enough to vote me? Why waiting for Skys case on me if you had your own reason to suspact me? Cause Level 5 suggest that you had your own reason, doesn't it?
Good, my dispute with Sky may have been confusing for you but this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126554.html#msg1126554) still leaves some questions.
Bard makes quite an ascent here and I wonder why exactly.
And even as you voted him wasn't that because you agree with the cases or ?because you are convinced he is MAFIA? nor that  you are ?convinced Dorion isn't?. No, it's ?because Just hasn't posted very much in day 2? ITT lack of activity. And even the one point you took from the cases were ?lack of effort?, how telling is that?

I guess that's already long enough, so I just summarize the last two days.
Day three you plainly sheeped Affinity on the Schezo wagon. You even looked quite confident (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127765.html#msg1127765) what seems kinda odd when I think that you never came around with you own reason why Schezo
is scum nor did you bother to say with what you agree on the cases.
And today is Not-me over me.

Honestly, for someone who thinks that lack of effort makes you scummy are your own efforts quit limited and it gives me the impression that you were just looking for excuses to go with the wagon that strikes you as opportune than actual effort to find scum.
The fact that you mostly idled the nights away doesn't helps here either but I understand that it's hard to present your ideas if you don't have any.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 11:24:07 PM
TL;DR - I'm content with keeping Affinity in my 'confirmed town' tier, and you should do it too. 

***

Looking for matches for Rai/Bard/Affinity, since Dorian just posted a quite reasonable case on Moridin already.  Note that the purpose of this trawl is to look for matches, so I'm assuming Affinity is scum for this pass and seeing if it 'makes sense'. 

Day 1
Starts by voting Prims. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125318.html#msg1125318)  Prims countervotes.  I question Prims on it.  Affinity votes me for questioning Prims.  Empty (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125349.html#msg1125349) unvotes after deciding Sky is OK, then goes back to Prims. 
Bard hops on to Prims very shortly after. 

Actually noticed this in Bard's vote on Prims (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125365.html#msg1125365);
"Suspect LLD may be on to something" random mention of LLD :V

Raikaria (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125396.html#msg1125396) asks if Affinity is double voting.  Scumbuddies would know this, so put this in the 'scum noticed a discrepancy and pounced on it' basket. 

Bard again (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125475.html#msg1125475) mentioning Affinity, "Huh What doesn't exactly do himself favours in my eyes by voting first Affinity and then me though." 

This (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125490.html#msg1125490) random post from Affinity that talks about kindergarten and I don't know what. 

This (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125520.html#msg1125520) post from Affinity appears very different, it's serious and most importantly, it's a semi-case and vote on Bard.  Good towny post.  Raikaria then questions again if Affinity has a double post.  Except that Affinity then specifically says bussing is a legit scum tactic in his next real post, here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125586.html#msg1125586). 

Affinity (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125677.html#msg1125677) cautions against a Dan wagon and pings Schezo/Raikaria. 

Affinity (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125723.html#msg1125723) pings Raikaria again. 

Affinity (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125787.html#msg1125787) pings Bard again. 

Picks apart (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125801.html#msg1125801) Raikaria, states preference for Raikaria lynch. 

Lists (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125804.html#msg1125804) preferred lynch as flipped scum number 1 and then flipped scum number 2.  So either a really great towny player or bussing his buddies.  However, in this post, Affinity also calls the Dan wagon rotten and basically mandates a lynch of Raikaria, which was unnecessary for scum to do at this point.  I think this is the post where I towncleared Affinity ages ago. 

((LLD votes Raikaria after this point, by the way, the main case for LLD being scum over Affinity)). 

Day 2
Votes Bard (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126219.html#msg1126219) immediately and then follows up with a quite reasonable (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126319.html#msg1126319) looking case. 

Bard (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126571.html#msg1126571) countervotes Affinity around the middle of the day and then hops off shortly afterward.  Affinity continues to pressure Bard/call Bard's points out. 

Bard lynched, Affinity never wavered. 

Affinity was subtly but in a large way responsible for both Raikaria and Bard's lynches.  He's town level is shiny star IMO. 

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 11:32:10 PM
Even though I trust Affinity, I don't agree with him lol. 

Quote
Well to talk about my stance on LLD again, I trust her early votes on the wagon D1/2 and I don't buy Sky's reasoning that she did so merely to 'avoid piling onto the same wagon as her other scummates' (we talked it out here and I made my point).  Come on, wagon analysis two days straight should be like a great stalwart thing we can rely on.  It's not something we should give up due to paranoia over her playstyle.

'early votes on the wagon d1/2' that's not what happened.  She voted day 1 as the last person to get on the wagon; Prims had made the case and not yet voted, and Dorian hammered.  This happened in the last 12 hours of the phase.  Day 2 she flipped around voting Moridin for no reason, then Sky for no reason, then settled on Just even though she'd stated she didn't want to lynch Just today, then said she'd lynch Just the day after if we lynched Sky on day 2.  She was the only person adamant that Schezo was town but wouldn't say how she knew this, so she's either a terrible investigator/person, or mafia that didn't want to be caught holding a hot potato. 

Like when you say 'wagon analysis' it's not enough just to look at the final tally and go 'well you lynched scum so you must be town'.  The history clearly shows that Lexi did not vote for any scum until the last possible moment.  When threatened with pressure, her response is the counter vote, threaten, and tries to intimidate town in to doing what she wants, instead of negotiating or discussing.  Her defence is WIFOM and appeal to emotion.  She has done zero scum hunting, has clear positive interactions with both flipped scum, and her only affirmative action this game was to question Dan on his vote against Raikaria (who was scum). 

GIRLS CAN BE SCUM TOO.  Stop white knighting her and look at reality. 

***

That said Moridin is totally scummy and I would lynch him too, I just think Lexi is MORE scummy. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 16, 2014, 11:44:00 PM
Quote
Hmmm...
If it was me I would have run with it.  It's like the ultimate gambit backup. 

***

Lexi is not going to claim guys.  She's stalling, asked Dorian if it was okay to claim, has been online an hour and a half ago, and nothing. 

So what now.  Do we have to put her at L-1, or do we skip to Moridin?  I'm okay with claiming before Affinity; maybe Affinity doesn't need to claim at all.  I'm hoping one of us can counter claim Lexi/Moridin somehow. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 12:11:27 AM
What's putting LLD at l-1 going to do? Me, Affinity, and LLD aren't planning on lynching LLD today so an LLD lynch isn't happening, l-1 to pressure her would be an empty gesture.

Just deal with her claim tomorrow if tomorrow ends up happening, it doesn't really make a big deal imo, since everyone other than Moridin is obvtown so we're not really worried about catching you or skypal or me/dorian in incriminating roleshens and therefore don't really need massclaim.

tl;dr Let's just skip to Moridin.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 17, 2014, 12:38:14 AM
@Sky: Try to see it that way. If Lucy is scum then she will reached a dead end in LyLo, cause no matter who she kills she will be still the most likely lynch of the day.
The only way how town could lose this is that either you or Affinity is the last scum and if that's the case, well played.

@Lucy: My suggestion is still the same. Tell me what good is your secretiveness for if it get's you lynched?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 01:18:37 AM
Serela
Quote
What's putting LLD at l-1 going to do? Me, Affinity, and LLD aren't planning on lynching LLD today so an LLD lynch isn't happening, l-1 to pressure her would be an empty gesture.

In this very game, when ActionDan was threatened for lynch, he suddenly became very very vocal and this was very helpful for town.  Also, you don't actually know what Affinity is going to do, and you historically flip-flop around on your wagons, so a Lexi-lynch is quite possible today. 

Quote
since everyone other than Moridin is obvtown
We don't know this for sure.  For example, scum!Affinity *could* have mega bussed his buddies, and scum!me *could* have invested way too much effort in to a game that is obviously won already. 

You are just sitting on your hands going lalala well the game is solved already.  It is not solved.  We don't know who the last scum is.  Perhaps it's Serela, and Dorian had to lie about being given a pm that confirms you or whatever, and he's biding his time for LYLO to kill you off and die for the cause.  I don't know.  We don't know.  The way we find out things we don't know is to test them; and in mafia we test them by questioning. 

If players won't answer questions, if players won't ask questions, we have a deadlock. 

Why are you against Lexi claiming?  According to you, it's game over, town wins either way.  You're so blind to a Moridin only lynch that you won't consider any alternative.  Don't you see how dangerous that is?  I'm not even demanding Lexi's lynch.  I'm asking for town to cooperate and work together, and Lexi doesn't want to.  Why do you think that might be :D
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 01:20:27 AM
Quote
If Lucy is scum then she will reached a dead end in LyLo, cause no matter who she kills she will be still the most likely lynch of the day.

Scum only care about getting to LYLO, not winning.  If they get to LYLO, anything can happen.  That's why we need to lynch right today.  We can't put somebody at L-1 tomorrow to test them, because if we're wrong, that's GG. 

Today is our last chance. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 01:25:57 AM
Now Sky, that counter/summary actually sounds pretty solid.  I'll keep it in mind, though I think LLD voting for scum late is better than not voting at all, especially on D1 when all Dan needed was one more vote to get lynched.  If it does come down to a LLD vs Sky battle, I think she has her D1 conduct over yours at least.

You may have explained it already, but, Sky, what happened to your Dorian case after D2/3?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 01:27:24 AM
You're crazy misinterpreting my actions. What I'm saying is that putting LLD at l-1 isn't going to do anything when everyone else is quite aware LLD is not actually going to be lynched today. Affinity has proclaimed what I interpreted as a strong belief LLD is town due to vote placement in the first two days so I think it's safe to say he's not planning on lynching her over Moridin just because? And no, I'm pretty sure at this point I want Moridin lynched today, not LLD; my waffles have settled into their final positions barring something really unexpected happening.

I do think LLD should claim but I don't really care whether it's today or tomorrow so if she's going to refuse claiming right now then whatever.

You or Affinity ~*~could~*~ be scum but I've already quite considered these possibilities and come to the conclusion that I firmly believe you two are far more likely to be town than Moridin or LLD. I've justified these stances in previous posts, it's not just gut feelings. When other people review them they also come to the conclusion Affinity is quite town.

I've already solved it as thoroughly as I think things can be solved in my position. If I'm wrong, than either you or Affinity did a good job and deserve the win. Now, as for what happens in 3p lylo with Affinity/LLD/SkyPal, I can't say, but... there's nothing I can really do about lylo unless scum decides I get to live to there.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 01:28:32 AM
Affinity what is your stance on SkyPal for clarification? Since I imagine lylo is going to be you/lld/sky.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 01:32:46 AM
I prefer to keep that a secret.  >_>
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 01:35:28 AM
Honestly I want to townread everyone and Moridin is just my weakest one, followed by LLD. And then everyone else is too town for me to be okay with lynching.

Cut by well okay I can understand that :V It'd be pretty surprising if me and Dorian lived since we'd literally have 100% of the lynch control but when it comes down to minimal-player-lylo anything can happen because READS and SHENANIGANS.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 02:12:26 AM
Affinity
Quote
I'll keep it in mind, though I think LLD voting for scum late is better than not voting at all

Oh my God. 

You keep making excuses for her when all she has to do is open her mouth and talk for herself but she won't do it BECAUSE SHE IS SCUM AND YOU ARE DEFENDING HER.  Holy shit. 

Quote
If it does come down to a LLD vs Sky battle, I think she has her D1 conduct over yours at least.

She got on to the wagon at the last possible second and all of that Dan/Raikaria fiasco happened after I went to sleep.  My preferred lynch was Raikaria, I didn't think I was gonna get it, so I voted with town.  Yesterday, my preferred lynch was Lexi, I didn't think I was gonna get it, so I voted with town, and we lynched Schezo. 

MARGHASOUD

Affinity is going to vote me in LYLO, Lexi will hammer.  GG scum wins. 

This (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1126849.html#msg1126849) is where I dropped my Dorian case because he became obv town. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 02:22:02 AM
I will remind you that Lexi's day 1 conduct consists of:
1 - Challenge ActionDan for his vote on Raikaria, who flipped scum (only affirmative action all game). 
2 - Voted alongside Bard (who also flipped scum) against Prims for the vast majority of day 1.
3 - Says stuff like "Also, the thing I wanted to follow up on involves Sky Paladin, so I'm gonna hold on to it for the moment, since it's not relevant to this lynch" and never ever ever ever follows up on it despite being asked multiple times. 

D1 conduct over me how?  Why?  I can't understand you. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 02:28:05 AM
Quote
I do think LLD should claim but I don't really care whether it's today or tomorrow so if she's going to refuse claiming right now then whatever.

What if she claims cop with a confirm guilty on Affinity (or myself) tomorrow?  How could we believe it? 

She won't claim dude. 

You, Dorian, and Morridon have claimed.  I want to claim.  That's four out of six players have claimed/voted to claim.  That means we claim wow democracy. 

I assume either or both of Affinity and Lexi are sitting on the info we need to end the game right now. 

If we lynch Moridin, and he flips town, scum is going to kill whichever of Lexi or Affinity didn't claim, because they have the best chance of having the power role that would win the game.  It will not be Dorian or Serela, because why would scum!Lexi or scum!Affinity kill off people who won't die in LYLO?  They'd kill their opposite (or me) and let you two lynch whichever out of Aff/Lexi is least pretty. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 02:34:52 AM
What if she claims cop with a confirm guilty on Affinity (or myself) tomorrow?  How could we believe it? 
Obviously you wouldn't and you'd lynch her. I already said this pretty much.

I'm kind of surprised you suggest Affinity!scum nightkilling LLD over the lovers who would control the lynch and most likely lynch LLD (because obv. in a world where lld could get nightkilled she isn't the scum)

I honestly don't know how to parse your last paragraph.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 02:45:58 AM
Sky, could you quote for me in that post where you said Dorian was suddenly obvtown?  That one and the above it is too long and tough to parse, so I need your help on that.

Seconding Serela, it'd just be a confirmed 50-50 where other people are confirmed town.  Sky's last paragraph is incorrect, me as scum wouldn't in their right mind lynch LLD when she might be a mislynch tomorrow.

I made a case on Sky but I decided it was not strong enough.  The main gist is that Sky was heavily on a Dorian/moridin scumteam in the beginning of D2, saying that he would elaborate on the latter.   However, he rather abruptly changes to me and then Bard/LLD as the scumpair without really mentioning moridin at all.  (when I asked him on this end of D2 he merely said Bard -scum, moridin -not scum, which is not helpful).  But to his credit he changed his opinion when Bard had two votes to moridin's one, so I don't think it was at a scummy point in time after all.  It may be something to think about tomorrow, but yeah I'm torn.  This'd probably change with Sky's response though.

And as I mentioned just because four people claimed does not mean that they necessarily want everyone to claim.  Why are you so adamant on being right and using anything and everything to further your opinions, Sky?  It's a bad thing in mafia, worse thing in life.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 02:47:29 AM
Oh.  It's because in my deep heart of hearts I don't completely buy that you are psuedo-masons. 

I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, I just want you to consider that it's possible we could lynch Lexi today.  That's all. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 02:54:12 AM
It's right at the top.  Well, just under that bit. 

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This was a humbling exercise whereby I ISO'd Dorian, found he was scummy up until the part where I went to bed, and then found that everything he did after that was plausible.  So I'll write it off as a rough start and when I finally had time to read the big chunk of game that I'd missed...sigh.

Anyway I wrote all this stuff up so I'll post it here.  I'm not going to follow the order I listed below, I'm going to do Bard/Moridin because tbh I should have done this first and not wasted time rehashing old territory but I was an arrogant prick and thought I was right so of course I was happy to redo it.

I'm moving Dorian from 'almost certainly scum' to 'possibly scum' along with Prims, Affinity, and Schezo, which is not reflected in the below list.  There's no reason to read it except that I went to all that effort and maybe it'll be useful later. 

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(when I asked him on this end of D2 he merely said Bard -scum, moridin -not scum, which is not helpful). 

This is simply because I believe the team of Lexi/Rai/Bard is not only plausible, it is the one that makes the most sense, and in that scenario, Bard is scum, and Moridin is not. 

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And as I mentioned just because four people claimed does not mean that they necessarily want everyone to claim.

I asked for a vote.  I'm happy to vote on it, but then we have to go through with it, yeah? 

So who would you want to claim? 
I want Lexi's claim.  And I kind of want your claim, but I'm happy to go before you.  I think Moridin's claim is incomplete and he's got more abilities up his sleeve and I can vote him for that, later.  I want to believe Dorian/Serela aren't both VT's and one of them has a power role because otherwise we have a lot of vanilla townies, yeah? 

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Why are you so adamant on being right and using anything and everything to further your opinions, Sky?
I am not trying to be right.  I am trying to get you and Serela to look at the words that they are saying and realise you are heavily biased to defending Lexi for some reason, and identify that reason. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 03:00:54 AM
SkyPal, we have two vanilla goon mafia flips. It is really not that weird for almost the entirety of town to be vanilla.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 03:08:50 AM
What lasting thing did LLD do D1?  She voted the Rai wagon when the wagons were tied.  If she was scum and voted for Dan instead, scum would have secured one mislynch out of a minimum of three to win the game, as well as denying town strong associative tells D2 (which huhwhat and me and others drew on) which led to the lynch of Bardiche D2.  The game could have turned out differently.  But she voted for Rai instead, leaving town in a relatively strong state. 

What lasting thing did you do D1?  You voted for Dan, the counterwagon to flipped scum, and a few token cases on others which did not really segue into your D2 opinions all that well.  I think D1-wise, at least, LLD reads better than you do. 

Note that bussing on D1/D2 would have taken a tremendous amount of guts, because of the possibility of a town investigative role out there, and the idea that there were 3 mislynches for scum to go.  I would not be so quick to write it off as mere WIFOM.

I don't think it is the right time to claim now and I think my reasons for thinking LLD town is kinda solid and not really biased?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 03:13:44 AM
Lexi has been around in the last hour and still hasn't got anything to add/help the situation.  Do you know why?  She doesn't need to post when you two are doing such an admirable job of telling her that she doesn't need to post. 

I don't know about you; but I signed up to play mafia.  In that game, players try to catch other players doing scummy things, and the only real basis we have to go on that is by the things that they say, and the way that they vote.  We also sometimes have roles that can help narrow it down. 

***

So let's say we lynch Moridin today, and overnight Dorian and Serela explode.  That leaves Lexi, Affinity, and myself. 
Let's even go so far as to say Lexi has a useful town power role, that is worth keeping silent about, and that Affinity is scum.  If she comes out now and says "I am a tracker/investigator/etc and Affinity is scum!", how can I believe her.  Similarly, if she makes the same claim against me, how could Affinity believe it after allowing Schezo to be lynched when she 'knew' he was town?  It's a dead end. 

***

When we have people who won't talk, won't cooperate, won't participate, what's the point of playing.  It becomes nothing more than a numbers game, or a popularity contest, and Lexi is more popular than Moridin because Moridin is new.  Why play this game?  Wouldn't you prefer to play mafia?  That's what I've been saying since mid day 2.  You owe it to yourselves to add value and meaning to your game.  You're just going to let it afk away. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 03:18:09 AM
SkyPal I don't know what to say to you other than that you're being completely delusional. A popularity contest? Uh. Me and Affinity's reasons for thinking the way we do are entirely justified by ingame actions and not on meta or anything.

I mean when you were talking about not cooperating I thought you were talking about LLD.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 03:22:02 AM
I'm just going to admit here that I'm considering voting LLD again and the only reason is that I'm concerned Affinity will lynch SkyPaladin if moridin flips town. Like literally the only reason. I'd much rather lynch Moridin.

Meanwhile SkyPaladin continues to be concerned me and Dorian might be a town/scum pairing even though the game would be in lylo if that was true, or if we weren't forcibly survivors than I'd have outted him by now or vice versa as all the other scum flipped. You say we'd wait until lylo for that but there'd be no point?????
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 03:22:25 AM
Sky, I do have my own conceptions of how mafia is to be played, and if I don't agree with you then that's because our conceptions clash.  Serela and I have made clear our opinions and justified it to the best of our abilities (I trust), and we are actually discussing it with you.  Try to convince us if you want, but don't you dare say that we are not playing the game of mafia just because you can't have you way.  It is extremely demeaning and insulting.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 03:25:15 AM
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She voted the Rai wagon when the wagons were tied.
This is completely false. 

The tally just before Lexi's vote (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125874.html#msg1125874) was:
ActionDan: (6) Moridin84, CF7, Prims, Just, Sky Paladin, Raikaria, (L-1)
Raikaria: (4) Schezo, BT, Affinity, ActionDan
Schezo: (1) Dorian
Prims: (1) Lexicat

When Lexi voted for Raikaria, there was only a very slight chance that he would be lynched, and with deadline rapidly approaching, it was probably more likely that afk!Dan was going to be lynched. 

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If she was scum and voted for Dan instead, scum would have secured one mislynch out of a minimum of three to win the game
If she had hammered Dan at that moment, and he flipped green, Lexi would have to explain herself and would be in serious danger day 2.  It was too risky, especially with Raikaria and Just already on that wagon. 

Please question your read of Lexi.  You keep making excuses for her and it seems your townclear is based on a factual misunderstanding. 

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we are not playing the game of mafia just because you can't have you way.
You are doing fine.  I'm looking at Lexi. 

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It is extremely demeaning and insulting.

Both of you called me insane/crazy all day 2 and ignored much of what I had to say, and I wasn't even calling you out.  :V
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 17, 2014, 03:25:58 AM
Bowling Pin, Party Popper, Bell, Rocket

Moridin: (2) Lexicat, Serela
Lexicat: (2) Moridin84, Sky_Paladin

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity,
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 40 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140918T1430&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+4)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 03:28:06 AM
I am not even demanding Lexi's lynch.  I am just asking for her claim because what useful information can she bring to us in LYLO that can be trusted?  The only thing I've got is my vote and my mouth.  What would you do? 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 03:34:57 AM
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When Lexi voted for Raikaria, there was only a very slight chance that he would be lynched, and with deadline rapidly approaching, it was probably more likely that afk!Dan was going to be lynched. 

Fine but that only makes my point stronger.  Suppose she just went afk and left Dan to die?   Also, why do you think her situation would untenable D2?  Other people voted for Dan to and it's quite plausible for scum to talk themselves out of it; compare with risking a Rai lynch and stuff.

For the record, I still think your D2 as insane/crazy.

Sorry for grabbing the last word, but I think this is a rather trivial defense.  As you wish I'd let LLD defend herself now.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 17, 2014, 03:35:57 AM
This is completely false. 

The tally just before Lexi's vote (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1125874.html#msg1125874) was:
ActionDan: (6) Moridin84, CF7, Prims, Just, Sky Paladin, Raikaria, (L-1)
Raikaria: (4) Schezo, BT, Affinity, ActionDan
Schezo: (1) Dorian
Prims: (1) Lexicat

When Lexi voted for Raikaria, there was only a very slight chance that he would be lynched, and with deadline rapidly approaching, it was probably more likely that afk!Dan was going to be lynched. 
If she had hammered Dan at that moment, and he flipped green, Lexi would have to explain herself and would be in serious danger day 2.  It was too risky, especially with Raikaria and Just already on that wagon. 

Please question your read of Lexi.  You keep making excuses for her and it seems your townclear is based on a factual misunderstanding. 
You are doing fine.  I'm looking at Lexi. 

Both of you called me insane/crazy all day 2 and ignored much of what I had to say, and I wasn't even calling you out.  :V

I... how does that make it worse? I made it 6 to 5 with Dan still close to being lynched and then immediately threatened Dorian with a vigilante soft claim bullet to his face. I mean, yes, it's hollow, but it's not entirely impossible for me. Dorian switched over as did someone else, lynch switched.

I would be willing to say that I was the lynch pin that swapped the day 1 lynch from Dan onto Raikaria.

Once again, I'm only willing to claim if Dorian wants me to. (And I suppose Serela?  I mean she's confirmed town, I just trust dorian's opinion a little more Sorry serela :V)

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 17, 2014, 03:37:19 AM
Fine but that only makes my point stronger.  Suppose she just went afk and left Dan to die?   Also, why do you think her situation would untenable D2?  Other people voted for Dan to and it's quite plausible for scum to talk themselves out of it; compare with risking a Rai lynch and stuff.

For the record, I still think your D2 as insane/crazy.

Sorry for grabbing the last word, but I think this is a rather trivial defense.  As you wish I'd let LLD defend herself now.

Literally everything you've said is stuff I've already said.  Sky Paladin has the worst kind of like, blinders on right now. And that's a nice way of putting it.

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 03:39:29 AM
Any sudden new claim of a role with a guilty on someone in lylo is -always- incredibly suspicious, that's really nothing new. Even if Lexi claimed the role now quite honestly it would -not- be any less suspicious than if she claimed it tomorrow. Scum wouldn't need to kill her if she claimed supercop that learns everyone's alignment if we actually thought that was a plausible role for some reason and didn't lynch her for that, because at minimal-player lylo her guilty wouldn't be dangerous anyway.

It actually really doesn't matter that much whether she claims now or later, except for that I'm thinking I might lynch LLD today just to make sure you don't get lynched tomorrow, because I cannot believe you are scum at all.

If Lexi claimed now, the day before endgame with the situation already pretty clearly laid out, her claim would not be any more credible than if she made it tomorrow. It's too late for that.

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Both of you called me insane/crazy all day 2 and ignored much of what I had to say
So did a lot of other people :V I specifically pointed out and explained why what you said was crazy. It was almost factual. Honestly you're still kind of there because half the situations you spout don't make any sense from any perspective, or are just silly, like Affinity!scum nightkilling LLD tonight or panicking over the possibility of town!LLD claiming a strong powerrole tomorrow and "oh no how can I believe her" when the fact of the matter is you don't ever believe claims that occur that way, you just don't. They just result in 1v1s where you go on who is scummier, not roleshens, and in 3p lylo a 1v1 is already nigh-guaranteed anyway.

Man I kind of wish Dorian had said that at some point in his posts now because it'd make this easier :V We're basically just having a semantics argument with SkyPaladin and it's not really important, it's just I don't have anything better to do. Well, no, I do have better things to do, but I'm too lazy to do them.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 03:41:57 AM
thank god I can use "okay I have to go to bed now" to get out of this :V I know I'd keep responding even though I don't know why I do
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 03:56:13 AM
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If it does come down to a LLD vs Sky battle, I think she has her D1 conduct over yours at least.

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I'll keep it in mind, though I think LLD voting for scum late is better than not voting at all

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Fine but that only makes my point stronger.  Suppose she just went afk and left Dan to die? 

You keep doing this, Affinity. 

If Lexi went afk and the lynch went sour, of course she'd be blamed for being afk.  Nobody wants that kind of attention, especially scum. 

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM.  You based your townclear on her vote.  And now the vote is not such a golden townclear, you still want to townclear her because she didn't do some other thing that 'scum would have done'.  Why won't you analyse her content?  You analysed my content.  You analysed Bard and Raikaria.  Why won't you do it?

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or the record, I still think your D2 as insane/crazy.
Before coming here, I played only outside contact games.  I played a lot of them, and I got very good at picking up when people knew more than they should/who they had talked to.  It's quite possible I am wrong here, but the same spider sense that told me when player x was lying to me tingled when I read a line that I would have expected to come from Bard.  My case isn't "Lexi is scum because she might share a QT".  My case was "Lexi is probably scum because (reasons)" that included vote analysis, posting behavior, and interactions with others.  Moridin, on the other hand, looks like he is kind of a lost sheep with nobody to talk to.  It's kind of likely he is the last scum. 

I just wanted to be sure either way.  That's all. 

Lexi
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Once again, I'm only willing to claim if Dorian wants me to.
I am okay with this

Lexi
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Sky Paladin has the worst kind of like, blinders on right now. And that's a nice way of putting it.
I am trying to get Affinity and Serela to see that your vote on day 1 isn't the magic town clear they seem to be making it out to be.  THAT'S ALL.  They're defending you solely based on this point, which is completely open to WIFOM, so I can't abide by it.  We have almost 30 pages of content to go on, but this one act is enough? 
Affinity was the one who called the Dan wagon rotten, and voted.  You voted after him.  I consider him the one responsible for the lynch, although I will concede you are partly responsible.  I just think your motivation was scum motivation :D 


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If Lexi claimed now, the day before endgame with the situation already pretty clearly laid out, her claim would not be any more credible than if she made it tomorrow. It's too late for that.
The reason I want Lexi to claim is because Moridin already claimed.  He can't come out with a fake guilty in LYLO.  If we lynched Moridin today, and Lexi has an information role, we can't rely on it in LYLO.  OTOH if Lexi could hypothetically townclear a player right now (Affinity or myself would be ideal), we could actually lynch Lexi to get one more confirmed town for LYLO.  Or some other option that may become clear once we have information. 

To be clear:  I am not against a Moridin lynch.  I think the strat of lynch Moridin and then Lexi if Moridin flipped green is not bad and will probably work.  I just feel like, if we have information that could help us be SURE that it wasn't Affinity (or myself) we should share it. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 04:23:39 AM
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If Lexi went afk and the lynch went sour, of course she'd be blamed for being afk.  Nobody wants that kind of attention, especially scum. 

Okay Sky I think you're dancing around the issue here.  I think that scum losing a member on D1 is horrible and that no one would want that (investigative roles, etc.).  You think that scum hammering town last moment and/or being afk is horrible and that no one would want that (scrutiny).  What's the difference here?  Can you disprove my reasons rather than repeat your own, as you usually do?  Maybe we can break the impasse then.  The burden of proof is on you.

I still think that tough scrutiny is more desirable for scum than losing one of their own, because the earlier can be fought through, the latter is a ensured loss of a member.  I don't know, the way you are talking, you sound like you haven't played as mafia very much.  You may tout yourself as having pretty good instincts, but I don't think your though process is sound and thus I'm wary of your scumhunting and play decisions.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 17, 2014, 04:36:42 AM
Serela seriously fuck off with thaat lynching me talk. You know damn well I'm town, make the right call for once, yeah?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 06:12:55 AM
I think you are probably right.  Losing a scum buddy is ACTUALLY worse than being scrutinised.  However, I think that the fear of being caught is a powerful motivator.  Prims described Lexi as a selfish player which is why I considered it viable for her to kill off her team mate, because what is best for a scum is to be seen as towny.  Then the threat of investigation is gone.  What's the bigger fear?  Losing your team mate, or being caught yourself?  I think most people would go for 'lose my team mate' over 'get caught myself'. 

I feel that you are unfairly favoring Lexi in our psuedo-LYLO because of this one point, when in reality, there is a lot more to draw on than this one point and that one point is questionable.  We have a difference of opinion.  I think there's absolutely no harm in her claiming, and it could save us a lot of trouble; If she gets killed by scum that makes for an easier LYLO. 

It seems that you (Affinity) will vote to lynch me in LYLO and so really, we need to settle the issue of Lexi today rather than tomorrow, because you won't vote me over Moridin, but you will over Lexi, and everybody else except for you thinks I'm town (I think).  I think you're very likely to be town, but it's no guarantee.  I also don't trust our alleged masons, either. 

I am not demanding a Lexi lynch.  I am asking for her to claim, and this is off the back of my many, many repeated requests for her to explain her votes and her actions.  If she starts explaining why she says such things I'm likely to see her as more town-ish.  Instead we get mysterious "you'll understand after the game" or "I don't need to explain to you" or more recently "fuck off".  I'm saying she's scummy, and she's got to either account for herself or get kicked off the island. 

Please ISO her. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 06:42:52 AM
Fair enough,  I admit I am scared of her.  I'll do the ISO tomorrow with reference to your case.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 17, 2014, 11:39:14 AM
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140907135118/dundef/images/5/5d/Pink-neko-girl-D-neko-anime-characters-31010980-208-243.jpg)

"W-Why are you scared of me Affinity-chan~?"

"A-Am I not cute enough for you?"

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 12:03:20 PM
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OTOH if Lexi could hypothetically townclear a player right now
If she could townclear another person when a third of the players are practically modconfirmed town already then I'd be pretty dang surprised she's trying to not claim. It'd be bad play.

Serela seriously fuck off with thaat lynching me talk. You know damn well I'm town, make the right call for once, yeah?
Um no I don't? Somehow you've managed to become a townread but you're still my second weakest townread. I trust that Affinity/SkyPal are town over you being town. Your votes aren't as convincingly town as Affinity's based on when/where they were made and quite honestly you haven't given much else we could think you're town for. I'm not SUPER CONFIDENT Moridin is actually going to flip scum, so I'm trying to be prepared for a situation where he does not.

I'm afraid Affinity would lynch SkyPal over you in lylo, but SkyPal being scum would be mindboggling to me, so I want to avoid such a thing happening.

If you really are town, you still win when the scum is lynched even if we lynch you first. Do you think Affinity or SkyPal are likely to be scum, LLD? This is an important question.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 17, 2014, 12:46:49 PM
That's a fucking idiotic question Serela. The answer is I'm town and I trust myself in LYLO more than I trust a Moridin/Affinity/SkyPaladin lynch.

I don't think Sky Paladin can be scum here, period. If he is, then kudos to him and I'll be lynching him day 1 next time he plays like this. It's gone from town motivation to just being "too bad to be scum" at this point.

Affinity COULD be scum but ???. I highly doubt it especially with Affinity's posting today.

So yes, I want a Moridin lynch.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 17, 2014, 12:49:03 PM
er, a Moridin/Affinity/Sky Paladin LyLo is what I meant.

Basically,I'm never lynching Sky Paladin and if Moridin by some grace of hell flips town, I'm turbo lynching Affinity tomorrow.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 01:03:46 PM
I think my biggest issue with LLD at this point might just be that she has the sheer audacity to say things like how she cared in the slightest about building any town cred, followed by "How DARE you doubt that I'm town you idiot".

Anyway, if you're not voting SkyPal I don't need to worry about him getting lynched tomorrow.

The moridin lynch marches on! That's good, because he's probably the scum. >_>
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 01:04:45 PM
I'm an idiot because if lld is scum she'd just quickhammer skypal

w/e

I can't control everything
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 17, 2014, 01:16:42 PM
1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3,
It's up to you!

Moridin: (2) Lexicat, Serela
Lexicat: (2) Moridin84, Sky_Paladin

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity,
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 30 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140918T1430&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+4)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 01:57:23 PM
Affinity, just please don't vote SkyPal until after LLD does tomorrow, if you're going to go that route. Voting SkyPal first just means a scum!LLD could quickhammer, without providing any benefit if LLD is town because she'd still have to be convinced of the Sky lynch over your own.

Which I admit seems quite unlikely based on what she's said, you probably just have to accept that Sky is too firmly town in everyone else's eyes to get lynched in any way other than scum quickhammer (which unfortunately only works if he's town!)

Anyway seriously can we lynch Moridin yet, while we're all bickering amongst ourselves Moridin is just staring at us and he's probably the scum anyway.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 01:59:07 PM
(and yes I'm very aware "just give up" is an awful thing to say but I'm not saying "just give up" so much as "you're just going to have to settle for an lld lynch tomorrow instead if that situation happens")
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 17, 2014, 03:31:45 PM
Serela, the point is that Affinity seems likely to vote me over Lexi in the next day phase, so she can say whatever she damn well pleases and nobody is able to stop her.  Well, pending AffInity ISO of course.  That is why we need claims from Lexi, myself, and ideally Affinity. If Lexi can explain herself or make a good case on why scum!Affnity is legit, I could vote Affinity.  That would be a long shot.  My point is, if we are wrong about Moridin, it's probably going to be Lexi/Affinity/Sky next day phase, so why not prepare today for that eventuality.  People just say "ah well if its Sky or Affinity gg wp." Why give up?  Especially from Lexi who needs to convince me that Affinity is scum. If we are right about Moridin, it doesn't matter, but if we are wrong and basically did nothing then we will probably lose.

That said I feel pretty confident Moridin is scum, so.  I also note that he's been around at least twice since Dorians case with no response at all. Of course Schezo afkd to death too so who knows.

I'd be happy to vote Moridin once I see claims.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 03:33:52 PM
Quote
Why give up?
Uh, it's not giving up. We already thoroughly examined Affinity/You and solidly think you're town. If we're wrong, then we're wrong. We're pretty sure we're not wrong?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 17, 2014, 03:34:54 PM
Anyway I like to think if LLD just suddenly changed her tune and went "Oh hey sure I'll lynch SkyPal!" from literally having just said "I'd never lynch SkyPaladin" then it'd ring all of Affinity's alarm bells.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Moridin on September 17, 2014, 04:23:08 PM
That said I feel pretty confident Moridin is scum, so.  I also note that he's been around at least twice since Dorians case with no response at all. Of course Schezo afkd to death too so who knows.
Been around several times actually.

Was I supposed to respond to that? I asked for a proper case and Dorion gave one to me, I figured he was just being nice. If I got something like that last week it might be worth responding it, but it's a bit academic at this point.

It doesn't really matter anyway. Lynch Lexicat today  and we win. Lynch me today and Lexicat tomorrow and we win. Same difference.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 04:26:10 PM
Yeah, I know.  But I don't know who I'll vote for tomorrow actually, if there's one.

LLD, are you an investigative role?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Moridin on September 17, 2014, 07:11:53 PM
Yeah, I know.  But I don't know who I'll vote for tomorrow actually, if there's one.

LLD, are you an investigative role?
Wait what?

Serala, Dorion, and Sky are pretty TOWN. Next most suspicious one would be you.

If Lexicat was a cop she'd probably not be switching around her votes so much. Probably a vanila but doesn't want to say cause Sky's being so pushy.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 07:32:01 PM
Why do you feel that he's townier than me. Yeah reasons are swimming around, just wanted to hear what you think (if you hadn't already.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 17, 2014, 08:06:24 PM
That's actual interesting indeed.
So Moridin, if you have any reason to suspect Affinity or to clear Lucy then out with it. It could only make you situation better.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 17, 2014, 08:15:28 PM
By the way Affinity, did that actually happened?
Fair enough,  I admit I am scared of her.  I'll do the ISO tomorrow with reference to your case.
And if yes, then what's your conclusion on it?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Moridin on September 17, 2014, 08:48:47 PM
Why do you feel that he's townier than me. Yeah reasons are swimming around, just wanted to hear what you think (if you hadn't already.
His one-sided crusade against Lexicat is crazy no matter how you slice it. If he was MAFIA then is no way he would "commit" that much.

If he doesn't do anything and Lexicat gets lynched, I will probably get lynched tomorrow, so there is no need to throw doubt on Affinity or anyone else.

Plus as MAFIA, pushing back against the lynch there, against the person who he was been trying to get lynched for two actual weeks, makes no sense. Well... it actually makes no sense regardless but... *shrugs*

Quote from: Dorion
So Moridin, if you have any reason to suspect Affinity or to clear Lucy then out with it. It could only make you situation better.
I'm working on a process of elimination here.

You and Serala are almost TOWN-cleared due to this lovers thing. Sky is too crazy to be MAFIA. Affinity pushed both MAFIA lynches.  Thus the MAFIA must be me or Lexicat. It's not me so it's Lexicat.

I'm giving you the have the opposite of those two things. Sorry :p
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 17, 2014, 09:10:52 PM
I'm a bit busy now :( tonight maybe
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 17, 2014, 11:27:59 PM
If it's summer, that means it's time for fireworks!

Moridin: (2) Lexicat, Serela
Lexicat: (2) Moridin84, Sky_Paladin

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity,
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 20 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140918T1430&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+4)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 18, 2014, 01:22:14 AM
sadly a torrent of deadlines came up and time is stolen from me and so everything is in darkness.

thing with lld is that what she does is kinda taken at face value.  there isn't much to question.  i do agree that lld's D2 vote for bardiche is not that convincing despite talking to huhwhat a bit about it, because her vote was on Sky (it makes sense) until the end of the day when she town cleared him.  but it's still better-looking than if she had voted moridin, because if she was right once, why not be wrong once as well and try to forward a mislynch?  but yeah, sky's D2 is better.  he could have stuck onto dorian longer than he did.

the rest of the time, I think her style is null.  believe it or not i don't fault her for her 'defence' against sky's long long cases; such is the power of wit.  her refusal to lynch Schezo yesterday gives the illusion of opinion etc.  whatever, yeah i agree it pales in comparison to sky's participation points and stuff it isn't hard to see.

but in the near-unanimous call for a moridin -> lld lynch, i think there's a need for a devil's advocate.  sky's playing the game, no doubt about that, but the question is whether he's playing with all his heart as town rather than scum?  i don't agree with the idea that investing lots into a case makes someone town, or that it creates any 'connections', there are none whatsoever, there are not even being disucssed right now.  as the last scum, they have to and can do whatever it takes to win without fear, and Sky fits into that context quite successfully I think.  ive a feeling that im perceiving sky as a bit too arrogant and pushy with questionable logic, and that might be coloring my opinion on him (revealing my weaknesses too). but at the end of it all im for lynching moridin today and keeping my opinion tmr a secret for some tension.  if, in the lld/sky/affinity lylo lld votes me, then my opinion doesn't really matter anyways.

one thing's changed, I think sky brings a good point about the possibility of LLD for the case of her being an investigative role, and i would like her to tell us if she is one.

that's it i guess.

i'll be back before the deadline and stuff.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 01:34:56 AM
Affinity, food for thought. 

Why does Lexi's dubious day 1 Raikaria vote give her a town clear, when my votes/actions on Bard don't clear me?  Look at day 2. 

Here's a strip of quotes in the order they appeared. 

I'm down to lynch Moridin or Sky Palladin today. Not interested in a cf7 or Bard lynch.

I changed my mind, I'm happy to lynch Bard or Sky today.

On the other hand I still have no reason to explain what I'm thinking.

Prims, you're gonna have to sell me on Bard today.

I have reason to beleive Just and Lexi are sharing a quicktopic. I don't know if it is as neighbors, masons, or scum, but Lexi's refusal to clarify makes me think it is the latter.  This also explains why Bard skipped Lexi in Prims case, earlier.

Therefore I'm going to go with a flip of Bard being very likely to be scum, and also indicative of Lexi's alignment.  Just has more votes than Lexi, so Ill vote Bard. 

##invote
##vote Just


I'll explain why I came to this conclusion in a little bit and others can agree/disagree with my interpretation of events. But for now I want to see some responses to my many, many questions, and content from Just and Lexi.

Please come and enjoy our Candy Treats, now 100% Spider free!

Just: (4) Prims, Affinity, Sky_Paladin, Moridin84
Moridin: (2)  Schezo, Just
Sky_Paladin: (2) Dorian, Lexicat
Primms: (1) CF7
CF7: (1) ActionDan

6 votes needed for majority
You have 29 Hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140910T19&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+2)
CF7 has requested replacement. His vote will remain until I can confirm a new player.

Anyway, you're town. Annoyingly bad, but town.

Vote: Just

I figure this is what I need to do today, but I'm a little nervous about Moridin/Affinity.

***

You don't need to re-read the whole game.  Just read pages 16-18.  That's all you need to do. 

Serela/Dorian, please ask Lexi to claim because now, even Affinity is asking for it. 

Serela, the reason we have a problem is that Affinity says that Lexi is town, in the face of overwhelming opposition.  People are calling me crazy for wanting to lynch Lexi before Morridin, when Affinity is actually maintaining that Lexi is town (and by implication, I must be scum if Morridin flips green).  So it's not sufficient to just lynch Morridon today and move on; the next day phase will be disastrous if you allow two players with opposing opinions about a third player who has their own mysterious agenda to decide the game. 

In fact, Affinity is arguing so hard in Lexi's defence, in defiance of what everybody else is saying, that I'm starting to consider if the reason he is doing it is because he is scum and wants to win control of her vote in LYLO. 

We assume that Dorian/Serela are going to explode this night, but it's possible scum!Affinity would shoot me and push for an easy Lexi mislynch.  The main argument I feel for Affinity being town is the same as me-town -> there's no reason for scum to argue this hard against a popular lynch, if that lynch is on town.  Therefore I want to believe the game is as simple as lynch Moridin then lynch Lexi, it's just that Affinity is making me feel like it's really going to be lynch Moridin, then mislynch Sky, and town loses. 

We're gonna have to lynch Lexi first. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 01:42:04 AM
I mean stuff like this from Affinity today -
Quote
thing with lld is that what she does is kinda taken at face value.  there isn't much to question.

There is plenty to question, like why she voted for certain players, why she won't give reads on players, why she won't post cases, it's just that she responds to questions with threats and insults, and you feel that you need to defend her for some reason.  She is capable of defending herself and is choosing not to, because why should she lift a finger when she already has you wrapped around it? 

All you have to do is treat her with the same respect you afford all other players, see her as an equal, and stop letting her remain aloof over you.  You have as much right to this game as she does.  Don't let her bully you into submission. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 01:57:52 AM
Actually never mind about that claim. 

Lexi is likely some kind of investigator/trackerthing.  On night 1 she probably checked Dorian, hence asking for his instructions for claiming.  On night 2 she probably checked Schezo, thus explaining why she cleared him but wouldn't say why.  On night 3, she probably checked me, thus explaining her surprise (but continuing) town clear of me. 

So from Lexi's POV scums are Moridin or Affinity.  Is that about right? 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 18, 2014, 04:00:41 AM
they do.  i mention that day 2 you're better and they do clear you to some extent.  that's why the decision between you and her is so hard.

im not maintaining that LLD is surely town, it's just that there are reasons to think so and they deserve some consideration.  please don't misunderstand me.  as i said, im just playing devil's advocate; what if Sky is scum and not LLD?  i just think that this view is possible and deserves more consideration than it is receiving now.  I'm not questioning her lack of posts/reasoning and stuff, because that's her playstyle as as town and scum and I've played in games with her before.  that's why that part of your reasons don't have the same impact as they would have on another player.

if im scum i would not want to draw attention to myself like that.  i would have been satisfied with the moridin/lld lynch and chip in the appropriate reasoning for such votes (pretty easy to find actually).  so please don't fault me for providing an alternative view here.    i've tried to reason it out though.  im not winning any popularity contests with this measure.

i refuse letting moridin live till LyLO; simply don't trust him making a crucial decision as town or letting him live till then as scum.

man why do you keep putting words into people's mouth to the point of claiming for others?  let them do it themselves. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 18, 2014, 04:02:32 AM
also could everyone (other than moridin) clarify why they think Sky is town?  this is not a rhetorical thing i just kinda want to understand.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 05:31:49 AM
Affinity
Quote
man why do you keep putting words into people's mouth to the point of claiming for others?

Quote
her being an investigative role, and i would like her to tell us if she is one.
Right. 

Quote
if im scum i would not want to draw attention to myself like that.  i would have been satisfied with the moridin/lld lynch and chip in the appropriate reasoning for such votes (pretty easy to find actually).  so please don't fault me for providing an alternative view here.   
Your main argument for why you are not scum is the same argument for why I am not scum, so we can't consider it for the purposes of 'scuminess'. 

Quote
also could everyone (other than moridin) clarify why they think Sky is town?

I actually really want to vote you for this.  If you think I'm scum, then you are also interested in Moridin's opinion because if I'm scum, he's not.  I also feel you're asking the wrong question - shouldn't you be asking 'Why does everybody think Lexi is scum?'. 

I'm kind of suspicious of you because you have time to post such contradictory statements and won't actually push Lexi because "you're afraid of her".  At this point I'm not guaranteed to vote for Lexi in LYLO because your play during this day phase has been significantly anti-town.  You know if Lexi claims and can justify it/her behavior, it's not so easy to lynch her in LYLO. 

So I'm putting all my chips into Moridin being scum, because if I have to pick between Lexi and Affinity, it's Medaka Box mafia all over again, and I don't want to lose another submarine to team Bard. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 05:34:02 AM
##unvote

I'll switch to Moridin later, I am no longer confident of my Lexi vote. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 06:19:27 AM
Later = now. 

I'm tired.  It's clear that Lexi is not going to claim.  Dorian and Serela are content to die and lose if Moridin is town and are no use at all.  It's going to be a three way between Affinity, Lexi and myself, and nothing today has changed that fact or the conditions. 

Lexi/Affinity, if you have anything to claim or say before phase end.  Seeing as Lexi hasn't claimed, and Affinity will refuse to claim and refuse to allow Lexi to claim, I guess I can't claim either. 

##vote Moridin
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 06:45:50 AM
also could everyone (other than moridin) clarify why they think Sky is town?  this is not a rhetorical thing i just kinda want to understand.
Sky is town because his play from mid day two on could be only summarize as refuge in audacity.
I could actually see him doing that as scum but the theme of his post doesn't fit. He doesn't just pushes weird conspiracy stuff and leave it nor is it the ?try hard but go with the flow? attitude that he had as Yukari. He's screaming ?why wouldn't you listen to me? all day with a emphasis and presence that's just plain unfitting for a scum agenda.

By the way Sky, I think Affinity left Moridin out on that question, because he gave his opinion on that matter already. Not because he don't cares.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 18, 2014, 08:11:02 AM
I know why LLD is scummy, you and Serela have elaborated on that quite a bit already and I've been mulling over it.  I've already asked moridin about the question and he gave an answer already, I'm just interested in others' opinion on you.  For example, Dorian gave a meta reference to you as scum in another game, which is quite informative I guess.  I'm not seeking to discredit you forcefully or anything.

You are mistaken, I do want LLD to answer the question as to whether she is an investigative role or not.  But in your post, you assumed that she already was one and said 'never mind about the claim', which I thought was strange. 

Sky, I gave my reasons as to why I think LLD might be town and I did my best to justify them.  I agree that your D2 gives you a town-clear and I mentioned it.

Sigh, you know what, let's cut it.  This exchange doesn't have much of an effect on the rest of the game and there's a rift between us.  Guess it was a mistake as either alignment to go against the accepted wisdom and discuss it, now everything's in ever greater uncertainty. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 08:44:28 AM
I'm just exhausted.  Phase end will be while I'm asleep so I think I'm unable to contribute anything more useful for the remainder of this phase. 

I was just alarmed that you were going to vote me over Lexi for reasons that I couldn't understand!  As long as you don't vote me straight away in LYLO I can surely do the same for you.  I think our discussion was useful, even if Moridin flips green we have a lot more to go on than if we had just sat on our hands and done nothing. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 09:23:33 AM
It wasn't meant as a meta reference but as a comparison of examples of how refuge in audacity looks as a scum method with what Sky actually did.
That it was Skys SK game as the first example that came to my mind was mostly situational.

Also Sky, I can assure you that we are not content to die and lose if Moridin is town. Serela waffled on Lucy all day in our QT too and not because he thinks she's that scummy but he started to regret that we gave a possible LyLo tomorrow out of our hands.^^;
I on the other side am not that worried about it, cause I stand on the point that the last scum is Moridin or ? um, I'm honestly at my wits end.^^;;
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 18, 2014, 09:25:31 AM
6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

Moridin: (3) Lexicat, Serela, Sky_Paladin [L-1]
Lexicat: (1) Moridin84

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity,
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 10 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140918T1430&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+4)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 09:41:02 AM
1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3,
It's up to you!
That's wrong by the way. It's supposed to be:
Right, Left, Step ~ Left, Right, Step ~ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDZ4N7QyKFQ) At least when you are leading.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 10:20:46 AM
Oooh, will you dance with me Dorian~?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 12:04:38 PM
I am going to bed.  I will not be around for the rest of the phase.  Please don't let the phase timer expire without a hammer.  In particular, I note that Dorian keeps going unbolded in the vote tallies, so I'm worried his vote is blocked or something. 

I have nothing more to say; I think I've exhausted all options at this stage.  If people feel like mass claiming while I'm asleep so we can do action analysis/counter claim hilarity, that'd be great. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 18, 2014, 12:27:50 PM
Affinity:One of the earliest reasons I started deciding SkyPaladin was down is because of his theory that LLD and Bard must be scumbuddies because apparently Bard told LLD Sky is an analyst or programmer or something since LLD knew so clearly they're scum together... and then he started pushing that really hard. As a reason to vote Bard because LLD was scum?????

I mean, if nothing else, if you're going to bus your buddy, that is in no way shape or form anywhere close to how anyone would ever try to do it.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 01:00:04 PM
@Lucy: Maybe, if I'm right and this ends today, if I'm wrong then I'll save my last dance for Serela tonight.

However, I have a appointment and will hammer when I'm back, which will be in around 2-3 hours.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 18, 2014, 03:27:14 PM
I'm out of the tens digit. Oh well.

Moridin: (3) Lexicat, Serela, Sky_Paladin [L-1]
Lexicat: (1) Moridin84

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity,
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 4 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140918T1430&p0=2374&msg=End+of+Day+4)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 03:36:54 PM
So, I'm back and as promised is it time to end this for better or worse.

Is even anyone around for a final comment?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 18, 2014, 03:50:55 PM
Hi!

Deadline is in a few hours so I think "but we could discuss it today!" is over.

Dorian disagrees with lynching LLD today so I'm going to go with that.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 18, 2014, 03:51:16 PM
just keep in mind plz plz plz no fast voting in lylo
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 03:56:15 PM
just keep in mind plz plz plz no fast voting in lylo
That says the right one.^^;

##Vote: Moridin

Now fate, take your course.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: ActionDan on September 18, 2014, 03:57:25 PM
Everybody!

Get down.

down on the ground

I'm not stopping until there's nothing left to burn
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 04:03:26 PM
Get out of here Dan! You didn't had much to say as you were alive, so why are you suddenly talkactiv as corpse?
Now wait at leat for the mod to end this before you start the post game taking.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 04:13:31 PM
Oh wait, that's just your belated postmortem post, never mind then.^^;
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 04:19:31 PM
I thought I'd check for a flip, saw Dan posting, and went YIPEE and back to sleep for me. 

Apologies for dragging the game out unnecessarily when everybody else thought it was obv Moridin sigh I'll sleep and go through the inevitable tongue lashing from gyard when I get up.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Serela on September 18, 2014, 04:26:40 PM
don't start getting excited early skypal
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 04:36:47 PM
Indeed, it was just his bah post, which he likely delayed till now to troll us. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 04:57:20 PM
Well Affinity, could you vote Moridin too?
I think the point Sky made about the vote block is an formatting error of the mod but better save the sorry, right?^^;
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 18, 2014, 04:57:46 PM
Your weather forecast ... A Clear, Happy day!

Moridin: (3) Lexicat, Serela, Sky_Paladin, Dorian [Lynch]

Lexicat: (1) Moridin84

Moridin84 was lynched
He was SwitchStepper, a Member of the Mafia
He had the ability to switch between beat and off-beat at will and thus Had the ability to speak during the night

All Threat to town has been eliminated.
The Lovers have survived the incident

Town + Lovers win.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 18, 2014, 04:59:22 PM
yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh.

this is really relieving.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: ActionDan on September 18, 2014, 04:59:46 PM
"The Lovers have survived the incident"

Wat

Also gj town.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 18, 2014, 05:00:16 PM
Well Affinity, could you vote Moridin too?
I think the point Sky made about the vote block is an formatting error of the mod but better save the sorry, right?^^;

Not an error, it's a result of my rules regarding how inactivity works in my game, However, it's not a very hardline stance. The amount of talking Affinity put in would have overwritten the fact that he didn't end up voting even if the game hadn't ended.

anyway, I have to run real quick to catch a job fare.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Moridin on September 18, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
Geez, I was going to write up a dead scene for myself. I assumed you guys were going to keep dragging it out until the every end.

Nevermind, it wasn't shaping up that well anyone :p
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: ActionDan on September 18, 2014, 05:07:53 PM
I assume that Sky was like, a doctor or somesuch? 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: ActionDan on September 18, 2014, 05:08:09 PM
there was no graveyard
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: BT on September 18, 2014, 05:09:53 PM
graveyard (http://quicktopic.com/50/H/NNt7VBFuXMas)

I forget if this was explained already, but what would have happened in each lovers scenario? Town-Scum, Scum-Scum?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Day Four)
Post by: Affinity on September 18, 2014, 05:11:59 PM
Dorian: oh yeah, whoops.  >_>

great play on almost everyone's part.  it's scary what paranoia can do to town despite us having three mislynches to work with.  moridin did his wounded puppy thing quite well towards the end and almost let town consume itself, almost.

BT for town mvp, his case on Rai was really stellar and caused the domino effect that led to town's victory.

Schezo is blah, what happened.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: ActionDan on September 18, 2014, 05:28:48 PM
I guess I was explicitly not invited to the graveyard.

hmmmpf.

Schezo got lynched for reasons I still do not understand.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Serela on September 18, 2014, 05:31:40 PM
If Schezo hadn't given up we definitely would have won yesterday imo, I was really reluctant after how he handled his claim and would have been pretty fine lynching Moridin.

That being said, man, most of the talking in the latter couple days was really unnecessary >:V Most if it was pretty much because of SkyPal. A lot of his d4 his posting wasn't about encouraging an LLD lynch- it was about mass paranoia. But what if LLD claims something tomorrow?! But what if the lovers aren't nightkilled?! Why are you saying if me or Affinity is scum we lost?! Plzzzzzz. :C

Unfortunately for Moridin, his grave was pretty much dug after it turns out I was confirmed town, eliminating a mislynch he direly needed. Sure, LLD was almost lynched today, but it'd be craaaaaazy if Moridin didn't take the bullet the next day.

ALSO YEAH WE WERE LOVER SURVIVORS. >:C Thank god Moridin was scum. Technically Zak eventually said something along the lines of "well actually in light of things maybe I should just let you win as long as you aren't -lynched-" but yeah.

Schezo got lynched for reasons I still do not understand.
because he literally just sat there and let it happen
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: ActionDan on September 18, 2014, 05:34:04 PM
btw re: balance,

This game was very very scumsided.  Very Very scumsided.

Very Very Very scumsided.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: ActionDan on September 18, 2014, 05:37:03 PM
Also major flaw:

If BT had picked one scum / one town, the scum tries to bus one buddy D1,

outs the 2nd D2 for a easy win.

edit:  Even worse flaw.

scum / scum.

Out last buddy D1.  Insta win.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Serela on September 18, 2014, 05:38:48 PM
Scum-Scum lovers?
Scumteam gets fucked if that happens :V

Dan:Based on the fact that it's 12p with 3 scum instead of 13p, and I still figure the only PR may have been BT (skypal kinda sounded like he might have had one?), I can see where you're coming from. The lovers were potentially a pretty strong town power since modconfirmed town and numbers meant lover death didn't make lylo come any sooner, though. However, the lovers were a very -swingy- town power. If it was scum-town, then oh shit, you effectively just made another scum team member. I think they would have had to lynch the other two scum before lylo themselves, which may have actually made it not so bad, but i'unno?

Scum/town lovers is that hilarious offchance that never actually happens but would be world-changing if it did.

Dan:I imagine they'd still have to kill all the townies for obvious balance reasons.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 05:45:29 PM
Ohhhhhh YES!
We managed to do what I thought would be almost impossible.^.^/ ~* tackle glomps Serela *~

CF7 X Dorian X Serela Lover QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/BjS5ySP748P6d)

@BT: I'll read the graveyard later but the question  that I want answert first is:
Quote from: Lover QT
?You win when all threats to town have been eliminated and both of you are alive?
Wait, we need to be alive and can't win postmortem like common town? OK, we are fucked anyway.^^;;
Were you aware that you turned us into de focto survivors?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Affinity on September 18, 2014, 05:46:33 PM
Yeah i think the stigma against LLD's play is too much.  Her playstyle may be null but it was short and to the point and quite logical.  Also, her votes were rather townie as well this game and it was quite distressing to be fried by sky for not entertaining his view completely.

Speaking of sky, I'm not really comfortable playing with him in future games.  He screeches walls the moment someone votes/suspects him (Dorian, LLD, me), and has a 'why aren't you listening to me!' indignance which is blood-pumping and distracting, especially when he repeats things people reject over again.  I appreciate his pro-town sentiment but, I don't know, much of it seems selfish and based on wrong premises.  When he says that 'I don't want to lose another submarine to team bard' it betrays where he is coming from.

schezo got lynched for not playing i guess.  if he had chipped in a few words we probably would have switched somewhere else.

re: setup: yeah i think investigative roles are needed in the setup to counter such shenanigans.  but don't the lovers become suvivors?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Serela on September 18, 2014, 05:49:48 PM
I think SkyPal needs a hydra partner to keep him in check until he can calm down his mafia play a bit, he's kinda consistently a... thing
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Moridin on September 18, 2014, 06:01:40 PM
Quote from: Dorion
Ohhhhhh YES!
We managed to do what I thought would be almost impossible.^.^/ ~* tackle glomps Serela *~
Really should have hit you instead of ActionDan. Thought you were a more likely mislynch than ActionDan. Opps.

@mod
If I lynched night killed Dorion, does that mean Serala dies? Or stays alive and loses even if TOWN wins?

Quote from: Serala
Unfortunately for Moridin, his grave was pretty much dug after it turns out I was confirmed town, eliminating a mislynch he direly needed. Sure, LLD was almost lynched today, but it'd be craaaaaazy if Moridin didn't take the bullet the next day.
Yeah I got very relaxed after that. Almost felt like eating popcorn while reading the thread.

Quote from: Serala
I think SkyPal needs a hydra partner to keep him in check until he can calm down his mafia play a bit, he's kinda consistently a... thing
He's become a little... crazy with his Mafia play over the last few months.

MAFIA QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/r3BaKN5WmRN)

And for people who don't read these things. 
Quote
I really wish you guys (assuming the game is over and everyone is reading this) would have not jerked me around all game.

- Sky_Paladin: Lexicat is so scummy why doesn't anyone want to lynch her? Moridin is also so scummy I should lynch him... but Lexicat... ARGH, WHY CAN'T YOU BOTH BE MAFIA DAMMIT?
- Dorion: I am willing to lynch Moridin. I'm not going to, but I am totally willing. I'M PREPARED TO LYNCH AT ANYTIME... just not right now
-  Lexicat: Voting for Moridin... wait Sky_Paladin just questioned me, I'm going to vote for him... oh wait now I'm going to vote for CF7... no wait Just. Now I'm going to vote for Moridin... no wait Dorion... no wait Moridin... no wait Serala... no wait she just claimed lovers. Hah, I knew it was Moridin all the time fuckers!
- Affinity: Moridin is so town guys, he's just an idiot so be nice. Really, tots TOWN. Wait, what's that offhand comment I see over there? HE MUST BE MAFIA LYNCH HIM! Oh no nevermind, changed my mind Serala it is.
Serala: Moridin feels town ... yup Moridin still feels TOWN... I want to believe Moridin is town ... ARGH HE'S MAFIA, WHY DO I ALWAYS BELIEVE IN THESE GUYS?
Seriously guys :/
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Affinity on September 18, 2014, 06:08:16 PM
>_> it's true.  unhealthy town paranoia
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: BT on September 18, 2014, 06:19:15 PM
Were you aware that you turned us into de focto survivors?
My role was literally "you must turn two people into lovers on N0" where the 'also survivors' part wasn't said or implied unless I missed it. If Zak won't post the PM then I will.

As for balance, I think this game was close enough to pure vanilla (aside from apparently unpredictable and swingy lovers shenanigans) to warrant comparisons to Mountainous. Mountainous is 11v2 and this was 9v3. Even with the advent of some roles (something that always adds information of some sort to the game), I'd say the setup was kinda scum-sided.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Moridin on September 18, 2014, 06:25:27 PM
It's very difficult to pretend to be TOWN when I have never played as TOWN in shrine mafia. Especially when TOWN players refuse to explain what is so MAFIA about your play so you can stop doing it!

Still, reading the graveyard and lovers QTs, I wasn't as obv. MAFIA as people were suggesting in the thread.

Also? I'm really sad my joke in N2 didn't go down well. Still think it was good :(
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Dorian White on September 18, 2014, 06:31:26 PM
If I lynched night killed Dorion, does that mean Serala dies? Or stays alive and loses even if TOWN wins?
He would have died too AND lost no matter if town wins or not. And if you had killed me then he would have died too but we could have won with town at least, I guess , Zakeri was kinda vague about that.

Honestly, your mistake was to go back to your SK way to play. I know it's hard to get into a new game environment and then get anti-town roles two times in a row.
Don't take it too hart, you played ?the newbie? good enough to give me a hard time and you interact with your buddies in a way that only PoE could give you away.
Maybe you get better luck next time.

PS: your joke would have been a lot better if you would have ended it with ... BLOOD FOR THE BOODGOD!
But that may just be my opinion.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: BT on September 18, 2014, 06:34:00 PM
Moridin, you were probably given leeway in this game because you're still new and unpredictable, not because your play was town-looking. Sticking to distant logic games (lynching ActionDan for weak connection evidence), not taking part in town squabbling and the underwhelming night posts are three things I remember reading from you that are scummy.

As for Sky, it's not like he changed his playstyle from past games or anything, he just added a layer of condescending "why am I the only sane townie" as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Polaris on September 18, 2014, 06:37:44 PM
Some constructive criticism for Sky Paladin (and it's good advice for others I guess): This post (#752) (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1128308.html#msg1128308) was a pretty good post. It's short and to the point, and I could easily understand what you were trying to say at a single glance. In contrast, when something like post #649 takes up nearly three times my screen size (http://puu.sh/by7HP/1691fc6ae0.png), you should be aware that nobody is going to bother with that.

Keep your posts short and you will drastically improve the chances of people actually looking at what you post.

edit: thinking about it, screen size works as a quick and easy measurement of how long posts should be ;v
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Schezo on September 18, 2014, 06:40:35 PM
It's very difficult to pretend to be TOWN when I have never played as TOWN in shrine mafia. Especially when TOWN players refuse to explain what is so MAFIA about your play so you can stop doing it!
now to roll mafia 7 more times in a row

And yes I gave up and am sorry for fucking you all.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Conqueror on September 18, 2014, 07:06:25 PM
This post is a shoutout to all the times Serela referred to a LLD/Sky/Affinity LYLO like he didn't think Moridin would flip scum.

Serela why are you so scummy as confirmed not!mafia? :V

(well played town)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on September 18, 2014, 07:26:22 PM
This game was certainly interesting to read.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 07:37:56 PM
Weeeeee 3/3.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 18, 2014, 07:52:08 PM
I guess I was explicitly not invited to the graveyard.

hmmmpf.

Schezo got lynched for reasons I still do not understand.
...wait, why does the pm say that I sent the message to myself?
I'm sorry, I was pretty certain I sent it to you at the time, so when you said "Mistake" all I could say was "No, it's not a mistake." Sorry.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 18, 2014, 08:08:18 PM
Re: Lovers
my first stance with Lover's win condition is just adding a survivor condition on top of their own win condition, with town/scum being a survivor pair in itself. I realize I should put more thought into it now than just that - scum/scum pairing would be fucked because it would only take two lynches for town to route them and they would get no benefit.
Scum/town would be in a weird position, too, because if they can get one scum lynched that isn't their pairing, they could just out the final scum, lynch them, and win as survivor with town. I think in a future game, I would change that so town/scum pairing would be a serial killer pair that have limited control of the nightkill until both non-lover scum are dead. They would still be able to win with scum.

in all cases, both lovers died, because that's what lovers are, they die together. It didn't happen in this game, but town/town pairing was fairly balanced because it allowed for a mason quicktopic without the overpowered benefit mason has where killing one of them mod-confirms the other surviving mason (Because there is no surviving lover).

This game was basically psuedo11 player vanilla, which BT called out immediately after seeing Raikaria complain about how scum had no abilities.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 08:13:17 PM
I don't know what you''re talking about Zakeri. I'm clearly a TurboCopVigilanteJOATDoctorTracker!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: WHMZakeri on September 18, 2014, 08:14:18 PM
I don't know what you''re talking about Zakeri. I'm clearly a TurboCopVigilanteJOATDoctorTracker!

I can only account for the roles I gave, not the ones you receive.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: BT on September 18, 2014, 08:34:22 PM
I'll post the PM, then. ::)

You are the Scientists of Love Lab.

As a Scientist, the core output of your laboratories is of course the studies of love. You have already researched the chemicals the produce love, as well as observed how they combine to form a powerful reaction. Even though the presence of the Mafia requires the town's full attention, you must fulfill your research quota, and thus to combine your work efforts, you must use a love potion on two members of the game so you may observe how they deal with the stress together.
During the confirmation stage, you must send in the names of two players in the game. Those two players will become lovers, and will both be removed from the game if one of them is lynched or killed.

You win when all threats to town have been removed.
When I asked Zak about what information the targets get and other things, he immediately shot me down. I don't have an opinion on this - I'm just sharing.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Bardiche on September 18, 2014, 08:46:49 PM
I think the Loverising was Town-minded, due to Town/Town generating a duo that was mod-confirmed to each other and them dying had no effect on the amount of mislynches/NKs needed to lose/win respectively. A Town/Scum duo might seem like a fourth Scum, but it also introduces a fourth person who could be detected as Scum and whose lynch would cause the collapse of half the Scum Team (if you count the Townie as honourary Scum). Scum/Scum means Town gets two for the price of one and is profitable any way you slice it; and if they are survivor lovers who can win by eliminating the last Scum, they just NK the other Scum and win the game.

This marks the last game in which I am unwilling to vote my scum buddies period, because trying to invent cause to stay off of Raikaria clearly has done me no favours.

Sky_Paladin, I meant it when I said I didn't read your posts, they are too verbose. I also hold that you should never arm yourself with the logic you did to lynch me: while the conclusion (Bard is Scum) was correct, the entire premises was flawed to the extreme, and in that respect there is no gloating appropriate from your side for correctly lynching me. After all, you arrived at it by pure chance and coincidence. In Mafia, you lynch who you think is Scum; you don't propose someone is Scum and then lynch other people based on an untested hypothesis.

It was frustrating when you argued "Bard is arguing against me instead of people who want to lynch me" as a case for Lexicat = Bard's scumbuddy, because again, you used the Lexicat case to vote me. Like Serela diagnosed, it was such a backwards method of getting on a Scum wagon it lost all credibility that you were bussing me. That should set off warning signs─if even Serela thinks your case is ridiculous, it merits a strong reconsideration of tactics.


I still hold that asking people, "Are you Scum?" (or equivalent) and pretending the answer to that is any indication is stupid. Your play is too focused on 'GOTCHA!' methods, and so far your 'GOTCHA!' methods never once resulted in an actual 'gotcha'. Just accidents that arrive at the right conclusion through arcane, Cirno-esque ways.



Outside of that, LSD was actually playing really Town, I'm baffled people thought she was Scum.

On roles: Scum only had the Night Talker, Town had BT's role and the pile of useless that is Schezo's role.


Final note: This game has had too many people misspelling names, so for all my sanity:

MORIDIN is spelt thusly. No other way exists.
DORIAN should always include an A after I, not an O.
SERELA only has one A.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 08:52:49 PM
Yo I was the towniest townie there was, :3
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: SB on September 18, 2014, 08:53:15 PM
Any benefit town might've gotten from having more scum to find is overshadowed by the fact there would be a 4 scum voting block and if they wanted they could just refused to vote one another and made it so that almost the entire town had to band together to lynch scum day 1 (considering that they needed 7 votes for that.)

That said gj town for an almost perfect victory. I would've argued against the Schezo lynch because I didn't see scum having a functional vanilla as their last power role, but uh... they did, so.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: BT on September 18, 2014, 08:59:55 PM
This marks the last game in which I am unwilling to vote my scum buddies period, because trying to invent cause to stay off of Raikaria clearly has done me no favours.
It hasn't done you favors since you presented ample reasons to think Raikaria is scum yet found ways to avoid voting him, which was pretty scummy. It's not the same as, say, going for a "Raikaria is Raikaria" meta defense which probably would have implicated you much less. Y'know, this wasn't the only component that led to your lynch. Avoiding bussing your buddies is still pretty much advised.

Just gonna back you up on the misspelling part because it bothers the heck out of me too. Learn your names, people.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: O4rfish on September 18, 2014, 09:05:16 PM
Lexicat, the new ActionDan Zero Effort soft drink!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Bardiche on September 18, 2014, 09:09:16 PM
It hasn't done you favors since you presented ample reasons to think Raikaria is scum yet found ways to avoid voting him, which was pretty scummy. It's not the same as, say, going for a "Raikaria is Raikaria" meta defense which probably would have implicated you much less. Y'know, this wasn't the only component that led to your lynch. Avoiding bussing your buddies is still pretty much advised.

Just gonna back you up on the misspelling part because it bothers the heck out of me too. Learn your names, people.

Yeah, I recognised it was a mistake to raise concerns with Raikaria. My play's been pretty crappy this game, but I also think it's too difficult to excuse behaviours based on meta defences and off-hand dismissing. Maybe I do that normally but that's a blind-side, not conscious dismissal (except in some cases where I read posts and then refuse to read).

Lexicat, the new ActionDan Zero Effort soft drink!

There's a difference between putting effort into discussing who you think is Scum (without saying way) and not posting at all unless you're at L-2. In fact, I propose we policy vote ActionDan to L-1 every game and lynch him if that is insufficient to get him to post content. It clearly worked this game.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Moridin on September 18, 2014, 09:21:56 PM
Quote from: Schezo
now to roll mafia 7 more times in a row
First 5 times I played The Resistance (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/41114/resistance) I was a Spy. The 6th time I was Resistance and then the 7th I was a Spy again. No joke.

That was actually hilarious though.

Weeeeee 3/3.
I'd give you a pad on the head... if you didn't charge out of Day 4 voting for Serala.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on September 18, 2014, 09:37:19 PM
LLD, your mafia playing style objectively sucks, sorry.

One way of seeing whether or not a playing style is good is if everyone follows it. If everyone in the game played like you, town would have lost.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 09:42:11 PM
LLD, your mafia playing style objectively sucks, sorry.

One way of seeing whether or not a playing style is good is if everyone follows it. If everyone in the game played like you, town would have lost.

Except
1) not everyone will play like me in a game ever, so it works.
2) Mafiascum often has several players in a single game who do exactly what I did and they perform very well.
3) If you can't understand how reading based on reaction and intent works, that's not my problem, it's your failure to comprehend.

And finally, my results speak for themselves!

First 5 times I played The Resistance (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/41114/resistance) I was a Spy. The 6th time I was Resistance and then the 7th I was a Spy again. No joke.

That was actually hilarious though.
I'd give you a pad on the head... if you didn't charge out of Day 4 voting for Serala.

But but but it's not my fault I got distracted by a Serela ;-;. (Ok yes, it is, but I have that problem in Mafia. Bad things distract me easily from real scum. It's a flaw, I admit it.)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 09:44:15 PM
Lexicat, the new ActionDan Zero Effort soft drink!

I'm not sure I can be a low effort soft drink~. I'm already a hallucinogenic drug, so!
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Schezo on September 18, 2014, 09:48:36 PM
Any benefit town might've gotten from having more scum to find is overshadowed by the fact there would be a 4 scum voting block and if they wanted they could just refused to vote one another and made it so that almost the entire town had to band together to lynch scum day 1 (considering that they needed 7 votes for that.)

That said gj town for an almost perfect victory. I would've argued against the Schezo lynch because I didn't see scum having a functional vanilla as their last power role, but uh... they did, so.
I'm almost positive if all I did was post I wouldn't have gotten lynched but I felt like shit then and now I feel like shit for playing like that.  whoops
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 09:49:00 PM
Oh, yeah. Why I don't explain town reads, a quick tl;dr

1) It shows my hand as to what I find to be townie in a players game. Just because I look at intent and reaction instead of prima facie actions, doesn't mean intent can't be faked. My reads become less accurate over time and I need to constantly readjust to my meta, both within the game and after it.
2) Within the game itself, my time is better served looking for scum and putting prressure on them. If I'm drawn into a quagmire of arguing for why someone is town against someone who is stubbornly refusing to change their position(read: tunnelling) I'm wasting my effective time.
3) If the person can't save themselves, what happens when I die? It leaves a mislynch up for the scum to utilize in late game, if I save their skin now. If you can't save yourself, I can put my 2 cents in for how I feel about you and my preferred lynch but I'm not doing much else to benefit you. The exception in this game was when the wagons were so close at deadline, that ActionDan would be almost unlynchable for the rest of the game if I lynched Raikaria!scum over him at that point, so I put a little bit of effort into swinging the tides there.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 09:50:08 PM
I'm almost positive if all I did was post I wouldn't have gotten lynched but I felt like shit then and now I feel like shit for playing like that.  whoops

Yeah I wish I could have invested more into saving you but see #3 above.

Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: O4rfish on September 18, 2014, 09:54:05 PM
It's not about not explaining town reads. It's about trying to convince other people why your scum reads are scum.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 09:59:08 PM
It's not about not explaining town reads. It's about trying to convince other people why your scum reads are scum.

I get more information out of their reactions if I don't. You'll notice, I did infact explain some of my scum reads to a degree, but it's not optimal play early.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 10:00:35 PM
Anyway I'm not sure why I feel the need to justify my play, least of all to you who didn't play in this game. @_@
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Conqueror on September 18, 2014, 10:07:13 PM
LLD, your mafia playing style objectively sucks, sorry.

One way of seeing whether or not a playing style is good is if everyone follows it. If everyone in the game played like you, town would have lost.

Allow me to play devil's advocate. There's no way of playing mafia that works in such a way that if everyone played that way it would be "good" for town (sanity and using proper logic is not a playstyle).

(I do like it when players are transparent but I thought LLD was reasonably town this game regardless.)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Raikaria on September 18, 2014, 10:21:02 PM
To be frank, I was being serious when I said I'd happily lynch you. If I was town I'd have tried to lynch you still Lexi. I really do not like your mafia playstyle and I don't think your D1 at least was protown, even if you ended up pushing on scum, your actions were far from why I was lynched. When your reaction to being asked for more reads/explaining them is something like 'I don't think you deserve to know' [Too lazy to look up exact quote] that is not protown behavior in my books and I can see it rubbing a lot of people badly if only for the 'I'm better than you' attitude it carries.

Also half-heart D1 when I roll scum due to busy IRL. Get lynched. PC dies meaning I'd have probobly got modkilled/replaced if I was still alive anyway. Only for my new PC a few days ago.

I guess the D1 lynch was a blessing in disguise?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 18, 2014, 10:23:03 PM
To be frank, I was being serious when I said I'd happily lynch you. If I was town I'd have tried to lynch you still Lexi.

Also half-heart D1 when I roll scum due to busy IRL. Get lynched. PC dies meaning I'd have probobly got modkilled/replaced if I was still alive anyway. Only for my new PC a few days ago.

I guess the D1 lynch was a blessing in disguise?

That's great. And I was being serious when I lynched you!

The difference is I succeeded.

I guess my point here is that playstyle differences are things that exist, and calling mine bad because you don't subscribe to it is pretty short sighted of you.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Raikaria on September 18, 2014, 10:26:02 PM
Hence why I said I do not like your playstyle.

I was being very specific about it being only my opinion.

I also don't like your 'better than you' attitude you had in game, and evidently out of game too.

Anyway I think I'm done talking about this game.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: pokemon123 on September 18, 2014, 10:34:15 PM
gg town
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Bardiche on September 18, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
If only Mafia was a game of "lynch the asshole", we'd never lose a game of Mafia again. Unfortunately, it's not about disliking someone's attitude or personality, but about whether or not they behave in a pro-scum manner.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 10:44:49 PM
Clearly I invest too much time and effort into this game (mafia, not this specific game).  I'm not being sarcastic, I really mean it.  I keep deriding Dan (and Lexi) for their playstyle but it's apparently very effective. 

I've started playing some newbie games over at mafiascum to level up a bit.  In the mean time, I think I'll self-post restrict myself for a bit.  I feel like I lost this game somehow. 

Thanks to Zak for running the game, I've never seen such a light roles game before.  I was vanilla, and I presume Affinity and Lexi were too. 

Bard/logic stuff - I wanted to gambit that you two were in a QT because I thought it was possible.  I don't have the cajones to actually gambit so I tried to float it out in a way that was easier to retract.  In the end, somebody did bite - Moridin said "I thought you had some kind of ability" but I was too focused on what you and Lexi did to properly notice.  After that it became 'I want Lexi to post/explain' and I became focused on that goal instead of catching scum. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Bardiche on September 18, 2014, 10:54:17 PM
Don't worry Sky, I used to be just like you. I believed the bigger the walls, the better the post. Then I...

Wait, I still do that shit. Disregard me.

As long as you weren't seriously believing in your case on Lexicat as being valid to vote me for, I'm OK with that. It's easy to get lost in minutiae.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: ActionDan on September 18, 2014, 10:57:34 PM
It's only worthwhile to post/talk a lot if you are

really really really sure that some fucko is mafia. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Polaris on September 18, 2014, 11:02:14 PM
If only Mafia was a game of "lynch the asshole", we'd never lose a game of Mafia again. Unfortunately, it's not about disliking someone's attitude or personality, but about whether or not they behave in a pro-scum manner.

tbh being a jerk is pretty scummy. i personally wouldn't mind lynching assholes if it meant they would stop being assholes next time :^(
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Sky_Paladin on September 18, 2014, 11:02:40 PM
Quote
As long as you weren't seriously believing in your case on Lexicat as being valid to vote me for, I'm OK with that. It's easy to get lost in minutiae.

Oh no, I wasn't serious.  I just said it to gauge reactions.  I don't think I ever referred back to the QT thing once I started to seriously push for a Lexi lynch. 
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Bardiche on September 18, 2014, 11:08:47 PM
tbh being a jerk is pretty scummy. i personally wouldn't mind lynching assholes if it meant they would stop being assholes next time :^(

Every game I want to lynch the biggest asshole but voting myself is against the rules.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: BigBangMeteor on September 18, 2014, 11:38:20 PM
LMAO using mafiascum as a reference on how to play

You're right that you don't have to defend your style to anybody and that people play differently, but if you're going to imply that your style of play is better (which you did, several times during the game), then you also have to be prepared to hear arguments that it's actually worse.

I understand very well how reaction and intent work. But you can test for reactions and determine intent while also explaining yourself. And let's even assume that not explaining yourself results in better accuracy of reads- it still remains that not explaining yourself means that you're never going to actually convince anyone of your reads. Guessing who the scum are is only one part of the game. The other, larger, part of the game is convincing the other plebeians who can't catch scum with 100% accuracy like you that your reads are correct.

You're right that not everybody would ever play like you though (it wasn't a great way to express what I was thinking).

Also wrt outing townreads:

1) Outing a townread shouldn't mean that it's harder to catch them if they're actually scum... Actually, I could argue that if a scumteam member is being publicly townread, they're much more likely to feel complacent and slack off than if nobody outs townreads on them. So in that case it would be actually easier to deduce that someone is just faking the intent, because their effort wanes as soon as people townread them. Reads aren't static; you can change your previous townread to a scumread if you explain yourself properly.

2) You can catch scum through PoE, so arguing about townreads does in fact help you catch scum. Additionally, if you explain your townread on Player A, a Player B who is scumreading Player A is more likely to consider another avenue of option, and scumread someone correctly. Therefore even if your personal scumhunting efficiency decreases a little, you're improving the collective town's scumhunting efficiency (assuming Player B is also town, I suppose). So if you die, this might, you know, be helpful. They might not listen to you, but then that's their fault for being stubborn, not your fault for not even trying to convince them otherwise.

3) Sure, if you defend someone who's not good at defending themselves, they could be a potential mislynch later when you're not around. Alternatively, if you don't defend them, they're a mislynch right now. I'll take a potential mislynch over a definite mislynch any day of the week.

Additionally, if all townies out their townreads, then for scum to blend in, they have to out townreads as well. This firstly increases the amount of fake content they need to generate, and secondly, it cuts down on mislynch options for them. Yes, you can change townreads to scumreads, but for scum to do that, they now have to BS more stuff than if they just had to case somebody who they weren't previously townreading.

EDIT: wow this post was long probably nobody will read all my effort now I know how Skypal feels :( :( :(
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Dorian White on September 19, 2014, 12:00:28 AM
I'm not sure I can be a low effort soft drink~. I'm already a hallucinogenic drug, so!
No, you aren't. You are still ?the girl with the sun in her eyes? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Q-DN_hY3o).^^

Honestly, you can think of Lucys way to play what you want and I'm not too fund of it either but I still prefer her bare-bones style over things like Schezos ?easy come, easy go?, no offense but that's just bloody pretentious, or Dans ?I can't be bothered to read the game? stuff.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Shadoweh on September 19, 2014, 12:01:10 AM
Bard/logic stuff - I wanted to gambit that you two were in a QT because I thought it was possible.  I don't have the cajones to actually gambit so I tried to float it out in a way that was easier to retract.  In the end, somebody did bite - Moridin said "I thought you had some kind of ability" but I was too focused on what you and Lexi did to properly notice.  After that it became 'I want Lexi to post/explain' and I became focused on that goal instead of catching scum.
You know, Lexi is totally capable of being friendly and helpfully explaining things to people like you, to help you townread her better.
Specifically, whenever she has a Scum role pm. Kind of like when you lynched me because Bard was more logical, you should consider that townies have more reason not to care about appealing directly to you.

Geez you guys concentrating on the play. I'd like to congratulate Lexicat for making it through an entire mafia game without getting banned from MOTK!  :toot:
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: ActionDan on September 19, 2014, 01:45:22 AM
shadoweh posting here reminds me that it was a simpler time when shadoweh was playing games

Then ideas like "we should policy lynch dan to make him contribute" wouldn't exist, since everyone would be distracted by another favorite pastime.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 19, 2014, 05:33:21 AM
I would go for a D1 Dan lynch over a D1 Shadoweh lynch every time.

gg town & get rekt bard
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 19, 2014, 05:43:38 AM
also imo the biggest problem with LLD's playstyle is that if you're not on scum at critical junctures (or apparently sometimes even when you are!) then lategame you become a total unknown at best or a distraction at worst.

re: outing townreads: i think it's a waste of space unless they're a serious lynch candidate but i'm reminded of the sf game where i went "Shinori is town wait actually I had no reason to point that out I just wanted to be smug postgame when I wasn't wrong" that was funny
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Lexicat on September 19, 2014, 06:17:51 AM
also imo the biggest problem with LLD's playstyle is that if you're not on scum at critical junctures (or apparently sometimes even when you are!) then lategame you become a total unknown at best or a distraction at worst.

re: outing townreads: i think it's a waste of space unless they're a serious lynch candidate but i'm reminded of the sf game where i went "Shinori is town wait actually I had no reason to point that out I just wanted to be smug postgame when I wasn't wrong" that was funny

I have already admitted to this much in the game. If I'm very very wrong about things, I tend to be more forthcoming with information and reads because there is a larger necessity to be seen as town? Being mislynched is as a townie, so.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Shadoweh on September 19, 2014, 10:48:02 AM
I would have played in this game if signups hadn't closed before I posted :<
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Moridin on September 19, 2014, 12:47:56 PM
Clearly I invest too much time and effort into this game (mafia, not this specific game).  I'm not being sarcastic, I really mean it.  I keep deriding Dan (and Lexi) for their playstyle but it's apparently very effective. 

I've started playing some newbie games over at mafiascum to level up a bit.  In the mean time, I think I'll self-post restrict myself for a bit.  I feel like I lost this game somehow. 

Thanks to Zak for running the game, I've never seen such a light roles game before.  I was vanilla, and I presume Affinity and Lexi were too. 

Bard/logic stuff - I wanted to gambit that you two were in a QT because I thought it was possible.  I don't have the cajones to actually gambit so I tried to float it out in a way that was easier to retract.  In the end, somebody did bite - Moridin said "I thought you had some kind of ability" but I was too focused on what you and Lexi did to properly notice.  After that it became 'I want Lexi to post/explain' and I became focused on that goal instead of catching scum.
This?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59195
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Moridin on September 19, 2014, 06:38:21 PM
Oh by the way. Relevant to Mafia and town/scum reading.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/magazine/dont-blink-the-hazards-of-confidence.html
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: BT on September 19, 2014, 07:44:51 PM
Oh by the way. Relevant to Mafia and town/scum reading.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/magazine/dont-blink-the-hazards-of-confidence.html
A wild Kahneman appears. Yeah, I've always wondered about skill and mafia. Lots of naysayers insist that mafia is pretty much luck and there's evidence to back it up - your Win/Loss ratio WILL approach 1:1 the longer you play, no matter how experienced you are. Thing is, it's hard to tell how much of that is due to mafia being a team game. If you ask MafiaScum, they have awards for players who play better than others. Is it the same as the yearly bonuses in the article? Who knows.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Conqueror on September 19, 2014, 08:08:37 PM
your Win/Loss ratio WILL approach 1:1 the longer you play, no matter how experienced you are
Can be explained by; mafia is a team game.

There's definitely an element of skill in mafia; anyone who doesn't believe that can go play in a newbie game with fake cop claims, perpetual no lynches, and "epic gambits." It's just a matter of how much it actually affects the outcome. Imo experience with a certain game setting/with certain players is definitely more useful in mafia than an abstract measure of skill, which may not transfer into a new setting. Which is similar to what the article concludes, I guess.

Also, re: the article. They said the average correlation for performance was zero, but given what was stated earlier in the article, your average stockpicker might do even worse. >_> And no one is willing to gamble on a dice roll, as evidenced by the amount of people who cooperated with Suzuran in the Prisoner's dilemma game. (So what they should do is replace all the traders with computer models! The Singularity approaches. :>)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: BT on September 19, 2014, 08:41:55 PM
Like I said, I'm not sure "it's a team game" is the sole contributor to how the ratio works. Sure, you can't account for the skill of your teammates, but YOUR skill should be a constant that influences how all of your games turn out.

What you described as skill is actually knowledge, akin to knowing a bunch of terms and tips as a financial adviser. Lack of said knowledge will render your guess a blind guess... but having that knowledge might still keep your guess as effective as a blind one. Also, if you have experience with certain stocks, it sounds like that'd help your success there all the same, doesn't it?

Off the top of my head, I think the correlation wouldn't be affected by a constant negative factor. *shrugs, leaves room*
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Conqueror on September 19, 2014, 09:58:23 PM
I'm certainly not saying it's the sole contributor, but it's not insignificant. A player could have perfect accuracy finding mafia as town and still lose a significant number of games because they get nightkilled early and people rarely listen to dead players (and they wouldn't have reason to unless they're very familiar with that player, in which case you have the familiarity factor involved). On the flip side, a person could have terrible accuracy and get lynched every game but still win consistently because of the way their lynch consistently influences the information present in the game. If you take the same 12 or so players and have them play 100 mountainous setups and still have people's ratios turn out 1:1 that'd be something else, but it's impossible to setup something like this.

Knowledge is a form of skill imo. :V Skill is a pretty broad term; what else would you define it as? As for having knowledge render your guess as effective as a blind one, seeing as players tend to get "better" or more accurate instead of "worse" over time I'd wager that's not the case. (As for the stock market, I'm of the belief that you can't beat the market unless you get insider tips, so. >_> And mafia is a lot more predictable than the stock market.)

Actually yeah, I misworded that. The correlation of someone who does consistently bad would actually be positive or negative, not zero. :V There's something to be said about being consistently inconsistent rather than consistently bad, but I don't know the numbers involved, so.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Serela on September 19, 2014, 10:11:49 PM
I was going to comment on my awesome win ratio but when I peeked at the archive I realized I just mentally blocked out all of the vaguely recent losses that weren't due to stacked setups :C

I kind of wonder what my win ratio  -is- like but I have this horrible looming mountain of college work I severely have to start doing right now.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Conqueror on September 19, 2014, 10:17:30 PM
we calculated a bunch of w/l ratios on irc a while back, someone could probably dig them up.
I just remember mine was something like 30% aawww yeaaaah.  8)
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: O4rfish on September 19, 2014, 10:20:53 PM
The players who get 1:1 win/loss ratio are not playing in a townsided or scumsided setup meta.

I'd be willing to bet that the average MotK player has a W/L ratio of <1, because scum wins more often, distributing wins to fewer players.
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 20, 2014, 03:40:34 AM
skill exists in mafia. source: the most skilled mafia player, me
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Dr Rawr on September 20, 2014, 04:05:29 AM
skill exists in mafia. source: the most skilled mafia player, me
will you autograph my chest and have my first born?
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on September 21, 2014, 03:52:16 AM
also I feel like the screwbots factory worker would have been the more logical choice for insomniac
Title: Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
Post by: Serela on September 21, 2014, 04:06:18 AM
Prims is such a rhythm heaven nerd

...and also the most skilled mafia player ;_;