Learning to play the piano (a touhou inspiration~)

[Helix ⑨]

So the thing is, I barely have any hobbies. I don't really want to do a sport because I can't enjoy doing the same game every time, I also have no interest in competitive play you would see in for example, soccer. So making music seemed like an obvious choice to me and I always had interest in playing piano. I know I've got some sort of talent, my dad can play bass, guitar and some piano (probably more to) and he said I could easily play piano back when I was a kid. The fact that there are so many beautiful touhou piano pieces just makes me want to play even more.

Now obviously I won't buy an actual piano, but a keyboard instead. It produces the same sound, plays the same and it's a lot more convenient. Since my birthday and christmas are coming up it would work financially to. There are 2 problems however:
1. I am oblivious to the world of musical instruments. I have no diea what I should get (there's so many!) or how costly it is. Any suggestions on actual hardware or perhaps special functions some boards have which are useful (or the opposite) for beginners?
2. I don't know how to play piano at all. I can slightly remember how to read notes from middle school, but I can learn that quiet quick. I don't want to take lessons either, how hard would it be to teach this to myself (using guides on the internet and perhaps books)?

I am positive that a lot of you can play piano and should be able to help me a bit  :derp:

[Furienify]

Dude, what.

I'm getting a musical keyboard for Christmas for these eerily similar reasons. :V

[Helix ⑨]

Great minds think alike.

Are you getting something expensive? I figure you could either buy a quality one for a lot of money immediately or buy a cheap-o one first to learn it a bit and then a better one once your good. But ofcourse that last option is more expensive

[Furienify]

Great minds think alike.

Are you getting something expensive? I figure you could either buy a quality one for a lot of money immediately or buy a cheap-o one first to learn it a bit and then a better one once your good. But ofcourse that last option is more expensive

Our price range, at max, is $150. My mother claims to have  found a few keyboards that come with stands and headsets included in that price range; I figure that so long as it works and produces at least a decent note, it'll be fine to learn with. It's best to start cheap to see if you're willing to devote yourself to a higher level of playing, I figure.

Then again, I don't have the keyboard in my hands quite yet, as I don't know if I'll be getting it before or during Christmas. She could totally switch it up between then and now, possibly buying a more expensive one and paying over time.

[Drake]

You don't absolutely need to learn to read sheets, but it's very useful and will help you in learning pretty much everything else.
Theory, while boring, is also very useful; especially for new players that aren't little children i.e. can actually read and understand what you're being taught. If you aren't taking lessons, I heavily advise learning some theory. Why certain notes go with one another, scales and how they work, chords, rhythm, DYNAMICS, etc.

As for keyboards, I would really suggest getting one with weighted keys, but it isn't necessary and usually those go over your price range. What you definitely need though is a keyboard with "properly" sized keys. People who don't know music seem to like to buy keyboards made for babbies for some reason. Probably because they're cheap (however are feathers and will break and have terrible sound etc). Buy a keyboard.

[Unassuming Squid]

I somewhat taught myself piano over the summer for the sole purpose of playing Touhou songs. I say "somewhat" because it consisted mainly of two weeks of learning how to read sheet music, and that was about it. I can play pretty damn well, though, so I'd say you can teach yourself and come out successfully.

No suggestions on what kind of keyboard to get, though. I have a baby grand piano, and it's the only kind I've ever used.

[Bitmap]

Learned piano when I was 10. Do scales every day to keep your hands in shape.

[Rockman Zero]

Well, I remembered that when I was young, my parents wanted me to learn how to play the piano, but I thought it is useless to have that skill because I didn't want to be a musician so I refuse to learn play any instrument. But when I started school, I found that I am not bad in music and soon I learned why there are black keys between white keys on the piano but not every key between the two white keys.
But it's a pity that I have never learned how to play it, or I want to play Cirno's perfect maths classroom by piano.

[The Greatest Dog]

Ah, the piano.

I had private lessons when I was... 8? I sucked, and my technique was awful, but when I found a sheet for the ending credits theme for Star Fox 64, I dedicated myself for a month to learning how to play it. But then, six years later I found this place and I learned how to play Cosmic Mind and it was worth it.

On topic again, for the love of Lyrica I'm seconding Drake's suggestion to get a weighted keyboard. Admittedly, I don't know of any keyboards that aren't weighted and aren't pieces of crap (ie, sound horrible, don't have 88 keys...)

Or is it just me not knowing of any better keyboards?

[Drake]

Well you just need to find an actual music store or something for weighted keys since most keyboards sold anywhere else are just going to have springs. I'm just saying that finding a good weighted keyboard under 150$ is going to be really difficult to say the least, considering I don't actually have one myself.

[Helix ⑨]

A good music store is no problem My dad knows a very big one in his old home town, I've been there myself and it's where he and my bro bought their guitars.
150 dollars isn't that much for me, knowing I can combine my christmas and birthday present and willing to pay a part myself

So it seems like weighted keys is a must, anything else? Earphone plugs perhaps, but I can not imagine anyone would make an electronic keyboard like that and don't have earphone support.

[ふねん1]

I don't know enough about keyboards to make any suggestions, other than the weighted keys issue.

Regarding actual playing, there might be a few technique-related things I could advise. Something that's basic yet crucial is to keep track of your fingering. When you play a sequence spanning multiple consecutive notes, when sets of notes "jump" from one part of the piano to another, when single notes lead into chords, etc., you need to make sure you won't "run out of fingers" as you move your hand around. Admittedly, it's a little hard for me to explain, but you can see a basic example with scales. To play the eight notes in a scale you have to do something like this, from first note to eighth: thumb-index-middle-thumb-index-middle-ring-pinky. Considering how many ways you can put notes together, getting a feel for proper fingering is something that comes with time, but if you're learning one particular song you'll soon see what works and what doesn't.

There's really a bunch of things in piano playing that come with time, like the aforementioned fingering but also controlling volume and rhythm. Just keep at it and you'll see progress.

[Fightest]

It produces the same sound, plays the same

I don't want to come in the thread all negative-like, but this is something that is not true. For learning purposes, however, yeah, keyboards are a much more affordable and practical solution.

I would also recommend getting actual lessons. Books and online tutorials are all well and good, but a proper teacher will be much quicker at identifying what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong, and you'll develop much faster as a result.

[Infy♫]

I started playing keyboard 6 years ago~ Just less than a year ago i bought a piano, an electric one that is. and I noticed how much more awesome it is.
i'd advise to buy a stage piano, it combines the best things of a piano and keyboard.

now, be careful with some things.
dont ever buy casio. an awesome keyboard brand is yamaha, their keyboards have surprisingly good sounds and other functionality. i'd like to notice that a piano doesnt sound like a keyboard. you'd think it does, but to me they're just two different things. the sound of a keyboard is usually very fake. take at least one with 5 octaves, too~
also- do NOT buy stuff for 'beginners'. seriously. Once you get better you'll need a serious instrument and the beginner stuff will be a waste of money. so go for a good instrument when you buy one.

i hope you'll learn it well and wont give up!!

[Furienify]

I'm looking over the keyboards on Best Buy's website. Most of them seem to have 61 keys; as soon as the count jumps to 88, so to does the price by a good $200 or so. They also come with all sorts of random knicknacks I'll probably never use; just a stand and headset are all I need to practice.

Both Casio and Yamaha keyboards have good reviews. There's this Casio one I'm looking at since it has everything I'm looking for, plus more keys. I assume more keys = good up until you reach 88. Either way, does anyone have product recommendations or warnings like Sercan's?

Also; I assume 'touch-sensitive' keys are the spring or not-weighted versions?

[Drake]

best buy

nope

casio

nope

If it says touch-sensitive that's sales jargon for "not weighted". Every product is going to misword things to make them sound awesome, be wary and actually try some of these out. "weighted" and "hammer" are the words you're looking for, but as I said, immediately after using these words expect a large price jump; I'd also say weighted and 76 keys is better than not-weighted and 88.

Having a built-in MIDI interface and yet providing 9328479278 tones is dumb and contradictory. If you're using a MIDI connection, the tone you play doesn't matter, and same deal with reverb and chorus and all that. Generally, keyboards with lots of tones aren't going to have very nice sounds, either. Casio especially seems to like quantity over quality.

I could sit here all day labeling stuff you should watch out for, but really I doubt you're going to find something superb or even standard at ~200$. Go to a music store and shuffle through.

[Helix ⑨]

Are you sure that touch-sensitive is the same thing as unweighted? I read here (http://myinternetarticles.com/music-keyboards/) that touch sensitivity translates the force you hit a key with in a certain volume, to represent a real piano where the smashin hammer against the string can be altered with force. They also seperate weighted/unweighted keys discussion and key sensitivty so I guess it's not the same thing.

[Drake]

Nonono. Touch-sensitive means that the lighter you press a key the quieter it sounds. It corresponds to the MIDI velocity system.  This is not what I'm talking about when I say "weighted". If you go somewhere and test out a non-weighted keyboard in comparison to a weighted one (and then to a piano if possible), you should be able to feel the difference. With weighted keys your keys aren't just flimsy plastic boards with rubber on the end, they usually have springs and some sort of weights added to them to imitate the feel of a piano. Most places you go might just say unweighted keyboards are fine for beginners. While that may be true, it's nowhere near playing a piano and it will majorly suck on the road to learning because it kills your feel on dynamics and smoothness and all the stuff that makes things sound nice. Weighted keys are a hardcore compliment to the "touch-sensitive" part of it; pressing softer and harder comes much more naturally.

Obviously if you can't get weighted for the price, get touch-sensitive though, because otherwise it's just switch-is-on-off garbage lol.

[Infy♫]

well. lemme list my tips again, clearer this time~
* Don't buy "beginner" stuff. Once you'll need a better instrument it will be a waste of money. Go for good quality when you actually buy an instrument.
* This also means, don't buy cheap stuff. i guess stuff above $400 should do. It will keep you satisfied for a few years, unlike the cheap stuff of $100.
* Don't buy casio. They're all crap.
* Buy in real life. A music shop is nice, since you can try the keys before you buy them. Since you don't know what weighted keys are... you can try it there, too. Shopkeepers can advise you too. Just don't get fooled, since they'll try to make you buy anything XD
* Look for at least 6 octaves. My opinion is, 5 octaves is too little to play a good song... but others would think different.
* I advise Yamaha. For general interest, my piano's brand name is "DGX-620"
* Basically, weighted keys take more force to press. This is a GOOD thing. Drake explained it perfectly though.

[Helix ⑨]

I went to the store today and got a Yamaha PSR E423 (http://www.imuso.co.uk/Keyboards/18554-/Yamaha-PSR-E423-Portable-Keyboard)
No weighted keys and only 5 octaves unfortunately, but there weren't many keyboards with weighted keys (and the ones that did had 4 digits in their price). This one costed 299 euroes and included a seat and quality headphones, anything better jumped straight to over 800 euroes. It had good reviews and I don't really feel a need for 6 octaves so it seemed like a good choice.

The coming weeks will be practice practice practice :V

[Infy♫]

owo i hope that one is good enough for you. im sure there are cheaper keyboards with weighted keys (its not like mine was that costly) and perhaps you could have found one with some better searching... but yeah.

[Helix ⑨]

It's perfectly fine, all I want is to just push some keys and make noise. I did try weighted keyboards there and I can see how it feels more real, but if I learn to play songs on an unweighted boards it doesn't matter. If I ever do get a piano or weighted board it will just be a matter of adjusting.
It still has important features like touch sensitivity and USB connect, the only downside I see is only 5 octaves but any more than that was out of my budget.

[andrewv42]

Sure, a keyboard would be of the greatest convenience at the moment, but if there are any musical associations close to you, I'd recommend practicing upon any grand pianos they might allow you to use every now and again. The sound that they produce is far more greatly natural and thus pleasurable, despite the keyboards versatilities.

Also, post here when you master Native Faith
Best of luck and I pray that you will remain devoted.

[Drake]

Native Faith isn't that hard, really. The only real "difficult" parts people hear is the intro and related segments, but really it's just really fast rotating notes. Anyone can do it.

Try the intro to Shanghai Alice o' Meiji 13!

[Helix ⑨]

I can't even do the beginning of F?r Elise  :ohdear: Let alone think about Native Faith....

But one day, I will grow 2 extra hands and play it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvqJeps2_yk


I also have a practical question. At what height do I adjust my seat? Do my arms need to be horizontal with the keys? Right now I feel my arms are going slithly upwards and it's uncomfortable, I figure horizontal or downwards is better.

[Infy♫]

I have no idea about that since I use the same seat I sit on while typing this message
just screw around till it feels comfortable.
anyways dont expect to be playing fur elise so quickly~ it will take some years.

[Aba Matindesu!]

You're buying a keyboard? WHAT ARE YOU DOING

Unless you plan to abandon this thing eventually, you're better off getting a real piano. Why? More keys, more emotion, doesn't sound canned, you can actually control the volume with the strength of your presses, and of course ornamental value. Then again, you are just learning, like me, so yeah, but if you want to really do this, I'd suggest getting a real piano. Pianos from Japan seem especially popular.

By the way, you've found pieces to play right? Right now I'm working on Phantom Ensemble 

[PC]

Try the intro to Shanghai Alice o' Meiji 13!

Charming Domination and Cinderella Cage intros also provide hours upon hours of fun

I also have a practical question. At what height do I adjust my seat? Do my arms need to be horizontal with the keys? Right now I feel my arms are going slithly upwards and it's uncomfortable, I figure horizontal or downwards is better.

Horizontal works best for me, if it's uncomfortable then adjust until it isn't.

[Helix ⑨]

You're buying a keyboard? WHAT ARE YOU DOING

Unless you plan to abandon this thing eventually, you're better off getting a real piano. Why? More keys, more emotion, doesn't sound canned, you can actually control the volume with the strength of your presses, and of course ornamental value. Then again, you are just learning, like me, so yeah, but if you want to really do this, I'd suggest getting a real piano. Pianos from Japan seem especially popular.

By the way, you've found pieces to play right? Right now I'm working on Phantom Ensemble 

Well I am a student, I don't have money or room for a real piano. I'll definetly buy one when I'm rich in the future  :3
But you can adjust the volume with presses on a keyboard to, at least mine has that function.

Also if you got any easy beginner pieces to share, that would be great.

[PC]

Also if you got any easy beginner pieces to share, that would be great.

For Beginner's Touhou, Sakura, Sakura~ Japanize Dream is relatively easy and is good practice (at the end) for reading long continuous streams of notes. Green-Eyed Jealousy is a great place to start in general as well.

Also just a sidenote, learn to read, play, and be comfortable with weird key signatures with upwards of 5/6 flats and sharps, along with rarer timings like 7/8, and 5/4- they pop up in ZUN's songs a lot more often than you'd expect.