Saving Nitori Kappashiro

[Usamiko]

So is Kappashiro ever going to come back or not...?  :ohdear:

Kappashiro uploaded all their videos on their other channel. :3 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkf_rgLzKlZv2_V6c3mNN2A

[OtakuGray]

The way I see it is, why would a doujin artist ever want their content removed?

If I was a single artist looking to promote my work and I went around telling everyone to not post my content and demanded that people buy my stuff, I'd look like an a-hole and nobody would want to buy anything I make. Hell, there have been revolts from internet communities specifically because of that kind of censorship.

I think part of why Doujin content actually works is because they're not super strict about it. The idea is you share stuff together and build a community around that. If people want to buy the content, then they make the choice to do so. You can't force someone to buy your CD, it doesn't work like that, even though the system makes it seem like that's how things work. Consumers have free will, and are more likely to buy your content if you make it more available to them.

I think part of why so many youtubers DON'T buy Touhou Albums is simply because they didn't even know they could or where to buy them. A lot of common questions you hear on youtube are things like "What is this song from?"(even though it's in the description) or "Where do I get these games?" This is a simple problem of people not wanting to put the effort into buying things. We could change that by making it more corporate and strict, but would that really help the community? I don't think it would.

Another way of looking at this is, what about the background music in MMD videos? What about Nicovideo? What about people on Youtube who upload mmd videos? Does this apply to the whole internet or only Nitori's channel? I think it's fair to say that the channel wasn't take down fairly at all. It wasn't even for a video they still had up. I don't think Google will care about petitions, but I do think youtube needs to fix it's piracy system. It's clearly out of line and unfair to it's users.

I think what Nitori has done would have been done whether or not Nitori was the one doing it. People share this music because they like it and want you to have the option of buying the CD. If they cut the song halfway or made it hard to listen too, people would find someone else to follow who uploaded the whole song instead. I agree that piracy isn't okay and people should be encouraged to buy content, but that doesn't mean forcing it down their throats. On the forums here, it makes sense, and I'm willing to follow the rules on piracy, but on the rest of the internet...it's just not how it works.

Personally, I've bought Touhou games by ZUN and his books, along with music created by various artists and I really enjoy supporting them, but I can say I never would have gotten into Touhou, played the games, or even bought an album by a single circle if it wasn't for people uploading stuff onto Youtube/Nicovideo.

A good way to solve some of these issues would be to have circles make their own youtube channels, but I don't know if that will ever happen, especially because of the language barrier. I think we should support the community as best we can, and like some others have said, if someone does request a song removal, just take it down, no questions asked or if someone asks where to get the games or music, link them to a store or a good page for buying the stuff and help people to make the right choice.

[Tengukami]

The way I see it is, why would a doujin artist ever want their content removed?

This question was answered by a number of people in this thread: uploading entire contact wholesale instead of giving said musicians publicity in a fair way (e.g. crossfades) and with added assistance to viewers to buy the artist's material (e.g. direct links to the artist's personal page for online purchasing) is less than ideal. And I personally know a number of musicians who - trying to make some kind of living off their craft - do not at all buy into the "free publicity" argument.

[Drake]

As Ammy said, this has nothing to do with any individual creators wanting their content removed or not, or what benefits there are of creators spreading their content in many places. They are entirely moot points. It's just consumers trying to validate themselves by fabricating potential reasons that what they're doing is actually a benefit so it's totally okay. Do you hear the actual content creators saying that uploading their content without express permission is okay because it's free exposure? If you do, then great for them, and upload as you will. But the consumers don't get to decide this on behalf of the creator themselves; that's a load of self-serving doo-doo.

If people want to buy the content, then they make the choice to do so. You can't force someone to buy your CD, it doesn't work like that, even though the system makes it seem like that's how things work.

Where does "don't upload content without the author's consent" turn into forcing people to buy a CD? What? I can't even imagine how you got to this.

Another way of looking at this is, what about the background music in MMD videos? What about Nicovideo? What about people on Youtube who upload mmd videos? Does this apply to the whole internet or only Nitori's channel?

The whole internet. The examples you listed are all completely different situations, and only one of them is actually similar to the topic here. In particular, this exact issue applies directly to Youtube channels with mirrored Nico content, but with different nuances because a video producer doesn't really have any other outlets besides the viewing of the videos itself (see: freebooting). You could make the argument that this is a more or less severe case for different reasons.

But as for background music to MMD videos in particular, how authors go about this is generally the proper way to do things, and it's a part of doujin culture itself. The bulk of MMD use songs that have been okayed by the author to make dance motions for. The act of making dance motions for a song, i.e. producing content yourself, is still a different case than just uploading the whole song for the sole purpose of getting to listen to the song without having to pay for it, but the point is that they receive permission in one way or another. Even outside of MMD, people request artists' permission to put their songs and stuff in their videos, and often collaborate with those artists. So this is totally different.

I think what Nitori has done would have been done whether or not Nitori was the one doing it. People share this music because they like it and want you to have the option of buying the CD. If they cut the song halfway or made it hard to listen too, people would find someone else to follow who uploaded the whole song instead.

Yes, people do this besides Nitori and have been doing so for years, and those people would be just as culpable. Saying that consumers will just move onto somewhere else to find pirated stuff is not an argument for enabling even more piracy, at best it offers a lesser of two evils where the difference between them is very small.

More importantly, it has never been suggested to cut up the song and pretend as though that makes uploading it okay. Nor was it ever suggested to give out cut content and pretend that would even work, either. It's the opposite: if you want to help support an author and you're in the position where people come to you (i.e. your "service" is better than whatever else), you don't decide to "support" the author by not contacting the author and enabling piracy of their works. What do people expect; "no you can't upload my works" and then you have to (gasp) abide by it? If that's the reason you won't contact for permission, you're already definitely not on the author's side. If supporting the author is your goal, there is no downside to contacting them prior. Otherwise it's become "I'm in a position of power to enable the artists as I claim to want to do, but I'm not actually going to respect the artists" and all of the defending the uploader for supposedly being pro-artists goes out the window.

[OtakuGray]

In a perfect world, I'd like to see Circles start endorsing or making specific channels for uploading one track from each of their albums so people can get a flavor for their music, and then if someone wants to share that around, they can ask for permission specifically from that channel. It would maybe work similarly to how you mentioned the MMD community works, where the artists and the content creators work together to help the community thrive.

forcing someone to buy your CD

What I meant by this is that doujin artists aren't shoving their content down people's throats constantly, like what larger companies do with their content. They're not going around blasting ads in your face or demanding that you buy their music. They do most of their selling at cons.

What do people expect; "no you can't upload my works" and then you have to (gasp) abide by it?

If that's the case, then yes. Maybe an odd example, but in the AMV community, there are specific artists you're never allowed to edit and upload. This is because the content makers contacted animemusicvideos.org and asked them to never upload their songs...and they abide by that rule as best they can. It can still happen on Youtube though, mainly because the rule only really applies to AMVs.org.

You don't decide to "support" the author by not contacting the author and enabling piracy of their works.

I agree with asking for permission. I don't see a problem with it, besides maybe a language barrier, but as I said before, people would post the music without permission anyways on a different channel, so even if you did get permission, there is still somebody posting the music out there without consent. You need to ask permission because it's the right thing to do and you're thinking of the artist and your audience, not because you're trying to crusade against pirates. It's just the mentality about it that bugs me, not the other stuff. Maybe we're on the same page with this one...

it has never been suggested to cut up the song

Sorry, I thought that was what you meant by 'crossfading.' I've seen some artists post albums with track previews all faded together, so that is what I assumed you'd been talking about.

Anyways, I was only trying to put my 2-cents in, so sorry if I'm stirring pots.